Renewing Your Mind: "Opposing Foundations"

Date: September 29, 2025

Podcast: Renewing Your Mind (Ligonier Ministries)
Host: R.C. Sproul
Guest: Abdul Saleeb
Series: The Cross and the Crescent, Part 1

Main Theme

This episode launches a series examining the profound theological differences between Christianity and Islam. R.C. Sproul and Abdul Saleeb—a former Muslim and noted Christian apologist—discuss the necessity for Christians to understand the key debates between these two faiths, why these differences matter, and the broader challenges to orthodox Christianity from both within and outside the Church.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Compare Christianity and Islam? (00:00–05:25)

• Context: Increasing Western interest in Islam, especially since 9/11
• Purpose: Equip Christians to engage thoughtfully with Muslim friends, colleagues, and neighbors
• Emphasis on Respect: Abdul Saleeb insists Christians must not stereotype Islam as merely violent, but recognize its rich traditions and intellectual coherence.

"It's very important for Christians to have a better understanding of Islam and what Muslims believe and how to respond to the questions that a typical Muslim would have about the Christian faith. It's also very important…that we should not stereotype Islam as just a violent religion."
— Abdul Saleeb (03:50)

2. Four Foundational Points of Contention (05:26–13:35)

Abdul Saleeb organizes the differences into four essential areas:

A. The View of God

• Trinity and Fatherhood of God:
  • Christianity: God as Father; doctrine of the Trinity.
  • Islam: Rejects both notions.
• Emotional & Conceptual Gap:
  • What is precious in Christianity sounds foreign—even offensive—to Muslims.

"It is a great privilege as a Christian that we can call God our heavenly Father...that does not sound like good news at all to a Muslim."
— Abdul Saleeb (07:20)

B. The View of Man

• Original Sin: Christianity teaches deep-rooted human sinfulness; Islam rejects this.
• Salvation: Different concepts of how humanity relates to God and finds redemption.

C. The Person of Christ

• Denial of Crucifixion and Deity: Islam outright rejects both, considering the Christian beliefs as misinterpretations or corruptions.

D. Scripture

• Authenticity and Authority: Muslims reject the Bible’s authority, regarding it as corrupted, while exalting the Qur’an.

3. The Wider Challenge: Not Just from Islam (13:36–16:30)

• Cultural and Intellectual Opposition: Challenges to Christianity’s core doctrines also arise from:
  • Liberal Christian scholars
  • Enlightenment philosophers (e.g., Kant, Jefferson)
  • Western skepticism and secularism

Illustrative Quotes:

"Immanuel Kant...said this about the doctrine of the Trinity: The doctrine of the Trinity provides nothing, absolutely nothing of practical value, even if one claims to understand it."
— Abdul Saleeb (13:55)

"Thomas Jefferson...wrote about the Christian doctrine of the Trinity: 'When we shall have done away with the incomprehensible jargon of the trinitarian arithmetic, that three are one and one is three...we shall then be truly and worthily his disciples.' And a Muslim would say amen and amen to Thomas Jefferson."
— Abdul Saleeb (14:38)

• Sarcasm in Christian Literature:

"Dorothy Sayers...writing this in a sarcastic way: The Father is incomprehensible, the Son is incomprehensible. The whole thing is incomprehensible."
— Abdul Saleeb (15:33)

4. Modern Doubt and Its Convergence with Islamic Critique (16:30–22:00)

• Doctrine of Man:

  • Many Westerners—even churchgoers—reject original sin, aligning more with Islamic anthropology than Christian doctrine.

• Atonement and Moral Difficulties:

  • C. Stephen Evans (Reformed Theologian) describes the Enlightenment discomfort with the idea of substitutionary atonement—echoed by Muslims.

"The idea that God forgives human sin by virtue of punishing an innocent figure in our place raises a host of moral difficulties...Such a moral perspective poses many questions for theories of atonement. Why must God punish at all? How can guilt be transferred to someone else?"
— Abdul Saleeb (18:18, quoting C. Stephen Evans)

• Islam’s Appeal:
  • Seen as rational, straightforward, in contrast to what critics portray as Christianity’s mysterious or irrational dogmas.

5. Challenges in Defending Christian Doctrine (20:00–21:55)

• General Lack of Understanding:
  • Many Christians cannot adequately explain doctrines like the Trinity, let alone defend them against Muslim or secular critique.

"Our own Christian folks do not understand the basics of their own faith, to say nothing of trying to explain and defend it to somebody who challenges them."
— Abdul Saleeb (21:23)

6. Ongoing Influences Undermining Christian Claims (21:56–25:10)

• The Person and Work of Christ:

  • Modern media and scholarship (referencing cover articles in Time, Newsweek, etc.) fuel doubt within Christian circles about Jesus’s person and work.

• Scripture’s Authority:

  • Academic skepticism regarding the Bible’s authorship and transmission has emboldened Islamic claims that the Bible is corrupt.
  • Muslim critique: Christian scholars themselves undermine the Bible’s reliability.

"A Muslim would say...your own scholars are saying that the Bible has been corrupted. You cannot go to any university, go to an Old Testament department and find any professor that would believe Moses wrote the Pentateuch."
— Abdul Saleeb (25:00)

7. The Call to Faithful Understanding and Witness (25:11–22:56)

• Urgency for Believers:
  • These questions matter for every Christian—not just for those interacting with Muslims—because they reflect broader cultural challenges.
  • The series aims to equip Christians to understand, defend, and live out their faith with conviction.

"It's very important for us Christians to know what it is that we believe and why we believe what we believe. Once again, you might never meet a Muslim. But these questions and these issues are raised not just by Muslims, but by many people from different walks of life."
— Abdul Saleeb (25:32)

8. Closing Reflections: The Stakes Are High (22:56–23:51)

"We would be naive and extreme to think that the attacks against the integrity of classical Christianity are coming merely from other world religions or simply from the secular world. They are coming obviously from within the church at a degree that is unprecedented in church history in the day in which we're living. And so that just makes the stakes all the higher and the pressure all the greater for those who are committed to orthodox Christianity to be able to answer these attacks that have been laid at our doorstep."
— R.C. Sproul (22:56)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–03:40 — Introduction: Why this conversation matters now
• 03:41–09:30 — Abdul Saleeb outlines the four main contested beliefs
• 09:31–19:00 — Contemporary challenges and overlap with Enlightenment criticism
• 19:01–22:30 — The inability within the Church to explain key doctrines; the necessity of understanding our faith
• 22:31–23:43 — R.C. Sproul underscores urgency of the moment

Notable Quotes

• On the emotional gap:
  "That might be good news to us, but I want to get across to the Christian audience that that does not sound like good news at all to a Muslim." — Abdul Saleeb (07:44)

• On convergence of critique:
  "A Muslim would say, see, we've been saying this thing to you for all these years. And now your own Western people are coming to the same conclusions." — Abdul Saleeb (16:09)

• On the faith’s clarity:
  "Islam presents itself as a very rational, simple religion, the religion of nature that any child can understand." — Abdul Saleeb (19:12)

• On intellectual integrity:
  "Many times people ask me about the growth of Islam...Islam has a great appeal to people of all backgrounds because it presents itself as a very rational, intellectual, easy to understand faith." — Abdul Saleeb (19:35)

Tone and Delivery

• Abdul Saleeb presents with clarity, earnestness, and deep respect for both faiths, urging Christians not to caricature Islam but to understand its intellectual robustness.
• R.C. Sproul is typically pastoral, solemn, and direct, warning of challenges from both without and within.

Summary

This opening episode robustly frames the wide theological chasm between Christianity and Islam, demonstrating that the conflict is not superficial but foundational—touching on the identity of God, the nature of humanity, the person and work of Christ, and the reliability of Scripture. The discussion avoids caricature and oversimplification, insisting on the intellectual respectability of the Muslim position while candidly naming the unique and non-negotiable claims of historic Christianity. The need for informed, able Christian witnesses is set against a backdrop of both external (Islam, secularism) and internal (liberal theology) criticisms.

Next episode: A deep-dive into why Muslims take issue with the Christian belief of God as Father.