B (3:34)

That's awesome. So Janine's kind of referencing, right. Dell went through a kind of Pro, we'll call it product simplification, but we'll call it a product restructuring where it is. We had a bunch of disparate brands, right? We had precision, we had XPS, we had OptiPlex, we had Inspiron, Fostro, we had all this. So now it is when we've talked about this at nauseam, but just for everyone else. So Dell, think of homework play. You've got Dell Pro, which is traditional corporate device, you know, managed IT environment and then you've got Dell Pro Max. So still corporate environment, but the max and performance from a CPU GPU power standpoint. But you made kind of a good point about the reliability, right? This is why I want to draw the parallel between like a Dell Pro Pro and a Dell Pro Max. Is that a Dell Pro which what I'm using right now? It's a corporate device. I not doing any AI stuff on the Dell network. When I'm using it, I'm using, you know, Microsoft Office, I'm using Copilot, I'm using Word, I'm using PDF, traditional kind of productivity type applications. But when I'm using my Dell Pro Max at home making demos for upcoming seagraph or IBC or things like that, I'm using Pro Max because I need a gpu. What when we say softwares and we say reliability, how is the software purchase a little bit different on Pro max and the ISVs that you certify versus just buying Adobe Acrobat or Microsoft Word.

A (5:09)

The difference is that the ISV applications that are system level certified, they've actually been in the hands of that software vendor, they've tested them, they've evaluated them and they've tested their software rigorously on our system. So when you're using that application, you know that the folks that design, built, maintain, manage your software application and all the features and functions that it includes actually had this physical system and tested that it would work well, tested that the app would work well. So I think that's what's different. It really isn't so much about what software comes on the machine when you buy it. It's about what you as an, as a worker, as someone that's adopted this PC from Dell, what you use and what you need every day to do important work, right? And so we proactively go out and we engage these software vendors, these ISVs, because we know they're important to the audience. That requires a workstation level performance, right? And so we go out, we have relationships with probably over 50 and we work very closely in this certification system level program with around 35 of those, right? So again, we work proactively. They take our machines, they test them. You know, there are a few exceptions where Dell will actually do the physical testing using a script that the software team provides. They inspect the results and they deem it certified at that point. But yeah, so I think that's the difference.

B (6:38)

So, Janine, you know, I love the explanation of the system level certification program. And you know, I'm not intimately involved like you, even though we've had a lot of conversations about certs, both when we're in tech marketing and current, my kind of current role, Dell, I want, I want to call out something that I think is a little bit different, right? Is that everyone can do certifications kind of in their own way. There's some, some of the ISVs that are very stringent. There's some that are not. However, is really when the certification, it comes down to some major core components, right? Like, and correct me if I'm wrong, Janine, but it is, you know, one is the operating system, so Windows, Ubuntu, whatever. Next is the GPU. So you know, Nvidia RTX 500 all the way up to 6,000 in a fixed and then up to 5,000 in a mobile, the GPU driver and then what software is being certified and it's not necessarily system specific, but what Janine has done kind of when within this program I think is quite a bit different, is that you can't compare apples to apples. Right. Like for example we have within the Dell Pro Max portfolio we have, you know, the Dell micro kind of smaller form factor. And right now we have the T2, which is a beast. You put a 6000 RTX Blackwell 600 watt in that micro, you're going to burn it to the ground. It's just not designed to run. It's like putting a Ferrari engine into, you know, my personal brand of car when I started driving in 1992 Ford Focus for Taurus. It's going to absolutely just, it's just not going to work. You're not getting everything out of it. So Janine has kind of set up the system to certify not just those components I mentioned, but those components within the system. So Janine kind of explain and I know you've touched on it, but I want to really hammer this home of the value of the system level cert. Can you go through some of these benefits of why a system level cert is so important for someone outside of my really bad Ford and Ferrari engine analogy?

A (8:34)

Yeah. So there are very pointed benefits to the system level certification and that includes we work with ISVs early in the development process so before the product is launched. So we give them early access to new technology so they get their hands on these brand new families of GPUs and it gives them the ability to understand how they work, what parameters of their software might need to be adjusted to work optimally with those GPUs. And obviously with Dell technology. And so with our workstations then they're getting early access so they can vet it. I guess next I'd have to say just the rigorous hands on testing that the ISVs conduct, it really does inspire confidence, right? It's knowing that they've had their hands on every aspect of this machine that you're about to spend, you know, eight plus hours a day working with mission critical applications in your work. So it's really does make you feel, you know, gives you peace of mind that ISV has, has actually worked with the system. You're investing in this active early collaboration across Dell and our ISV partner. It also accelerates, let's face it, early problem discovery and resolution. So through the development process, obviously there are going to be times when something isn't working well and we discover that through our rigorous development process and our own testing inside Dell. But now we've also got these really important partners vital to the ecosystem, right? And vital to our customers. Ensuring that they find, if they find issues, when they discover issues that we can work together to resolve them. And that leads to the next point, which is faster support for your customers. And that's because we work closely with not just our ISV partners, but our hardware partners as well. So Nvidia is one example. Logan referenced the new Blackwell GPUs and obviously we worked very closely with Nvidia throughout their development and our development, right. Those GPUs are important, critical to our value proposition for our workstation family and our Pro Max PCs. And so by having ISVs testing that combination in the system, we discover the nuances of the settings, optimizing how that will work with a specific application, and the ISV can do the same. So when you need support, we will have already engaged and have great relationships with those partners, including operating system partners like Microsoft. Right. And so we can bring those partners together to collaborate when and if there are escalations around any kind of performance issues so you can get faster support for your customers, because we have those strong relationships and hands on working relationships. The next one. Logan alluded to it, right? Documented drivers for your graphics. This is important, right? So we specifically publish what is the certified driver. And that way you don't have to go through that hit or miss of discovering which driver makes sense for you to disseminate to your teams. Right. When you, when they adopt our Dell workstations, because that's already been tested and now certified. So the system is certified. And that along with that goes a specific graphics driver that was used in that test. So that'll save time and effort for your organization in both distributing software to your teams and ensuring that they can get those workstations up and running and effective quickly. Hours of testing assure compatibility. And basically what I'm saying here is that you can feel comfortable that these hours of testing invested by Dell and our ISV partners assures that you will have reliable performance in that system when you use it with your applications. So it's not like this ISV application has never been used before on a Dell workstation in front of you. That situation could lead to concerns, problems that hadn't been discovered. So with this testing process, you know that there's compatibility because it's been tested hands on by the folks that build and drive those applications. Speaking of mission critical reliability for important applications, we recognize how important these apps are to your work and to your business and to your bottom line. And so assuring you that they'll work well on our hardware and our systems is really, really important to us because we want you to have a Positive, optimal experience with our workstations. So by having an ISV certification program, especially a system level one, we're basically saying that we recognize that your work is the most important thing and we want to make sure we support it well. So by working proactively with the ISVs that build your applications, we assure even before you have your hands on that system that it'll work well. And lastly, we do provide professional Support to the ISVs throughout the testing process. So in other words, if some point in the future they have a customer with a really unique application who reaches out to them for support, they pull us in and we provide support. And that's literally my team whose role is to work hands on with our equipment every day. And so they are the ones that prepare custom configurations of our workstations, pre production versions to ship them out to our ISVs for early testing. They work throughout the development process with those ISVs and our partners to work through any early discovery and resolve them. And we're here to support those ISVs in the case of any escalations or unique workflows that need, you know, different or standout support of some kind.

B (14:32)

I love that. And I think it goes back to at the end of the day with, you know, certifications. It's first off, the first time I heard about certifications I thought it was a very dry subject, but it's actually very fascinating because within, you know, Dell Pro Max and kind of the workstation, you know, purchasing category, the software is really driving the purchase. Right. Like the people that are, whether it's engineering, manufacturing, aco media, entertainment, any of the, you know, healthcare, any of these oil and gas, any of these workflows have specialized software that are GPU accelerated or typically CUDA accelerated, AK GPU accelerated. And having that work and having a system that knowing which GPU and which config and which driver, which OS will actually work is kind of paramount. I know Janine, you'd mentioned, I think it was 50 and 35 that we proactively, you know, know, work with. But can you kind of go through maybe for a minute or so talk through some of these high level partners? And one I just want to call out is Hexagon Blue because we just actually did an interview with them which is kind of reality capture point clouds, which is really interesting. So I'm glad to see them on the list because that was an, an excellent conversation we just had, but kind of go through the list of kind of the high level industries slash partners.

A (15:44)

Sure, yeah. So our program includes A couple of key industry focus areas and that is Architecture, engineering and construction ops also known as aco. Known as ACO and manufacturing and product design. The second would be media and entertainment. Third would be science and financial applications and then healthcare and life sciences. So within those categories, and this is definitely not an exhaustive list of our program partners, but in the AECO manufacturing product design space, some of the names that I'm sure you know, common household names, really important partners that you will have heard of Autodesk, Dassault Systems, the SolidWorks team, which is technically a part of Dassault Systems, Siemens and their NX application, Ansys Workbench and many other product design and stem applications. Altair, ptc, Bentley in the eco space and Hexagon as Logan referenced. So those are just a sampling of our AECO and manufacturing product design ISPs and we work hand in hand with them in this program. Media and entertainment we work with, I noticed blackmagic design is missing but they're a part of the program. We also work actively with Avid Autodesk in their media and entertainment application spaces and we also work with a few hardware component vendors like AJA and ADO that are really critical to the media and entertainment industry with add in cards and other post production cards for M and E. In the science and financial space, we look at companies in the oil and gas industry like Halliburton and Schlumberger who we work closely with to certify our products. Now these are as you know, very high level applications, high price tag warrant, really high performance and it is critical to these companies that the hardware that they're asking their customers to use with their applications is going to work well. So they are really, they really focus on this program. S and P Global is another one. And then in the healthcare space we work with Barco and ISO. Again not an exhaustive list, but gives you a good sampling of the partners that are part of our program and really important to us.

B (18:02)

I love it. It's a great list. I mean this is kind of the who's who in the zoo, right? Like of the big names that are local isps. I mean within this couple things are drawn out to me is that when you look at this list, we're not talking these are not cheap. I mean they might be cheap in people's minds like because they've used them forever, right? But like these are not like a, oh, I'm going to go buy a $10 month subscription to an antivirus, right Software. These are thousands of dollars a year, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousand dollars software, right? So it is critical that when you're buying, you know, a Dell Pro Max workstation, that Nvidia RTX Pro GPU is that one. You know, what level of GPU know will actually run this? Because could you imagine pulling up and saying, oh man, I'm so glad I bought this workstation. And then it won't even run the software. Or two, you have a problem with it and then the ISV won't necessarily troubleshoot because you're not working on. So it just creates a bad problem all around. So, you know, I love this list, but let me come back. So Gene, one is that we know like when you, I know you say Autodesk, autocad, there's been so many versions of that. Quick question is how many system level certs has the program done, let's say to date? And then let's say how many are you planning with the launch of Blackwell Forward in the next year?

A (19:20)

So I've been in the managing the program for, like I said, a little over three years. We have over 80,000 certifications, active and searchable on our certification webpage. And each year we do between 10 and 20,000, depending on, you know, literally how many new product launches we have and how many new GPU families are launched. Because with each launch that's another cycle of certification testing with our partners, right? They want to get their hands on the new technology and test it and certify it. And we very much want to get their support and review and hands on testing time with our products as well, as soon as we can. So yeah, so we, you know, we basically try to deliver ISV certifications on newly launched tech within the workstation space from Dell, whether it's a combination of a new family of GPUs with our desktop workstations or literally our new ProBax notebooks. We want to do it as soon as humanly possible after a launch. And so that normally means in a good year, 30 to 60 days after launch within that window for our, our top ISVs. And those would be the ones that are adopted most often by our workstation customers. So we take a look at our market and we see, like Logan said, what software applications require this high performance PC. And those are the ones that we target first in terms of getting hardware in their hands and working through that testing process. And then, you know, we work with all of our partners to get the testing done. We ship products out, as I mentioned, we provide a semi custom configuration to the partners, we send it out to them with EOS, with the storage, with the RAM, with the CPUs that they're interested in testing and certifying and then it's in their hands. So like I said, we have, we target 30 to 60 days, sometimes it can take longer. And it all depends on the ISV's test process. They know their applications best and so they structure a test script that makes gives them confidence that their application works well with our systems. And it's their decision that something can be considered certified. So the process is multifaceted and multi. Threaded. But we try to get systems in the hands of our partners as soon as we can. We definitely engage them before launch of a product with early versions of our systems. And like I mentioned before, that way they're discovering issues, they're finding nuances, they're optimizing their application and understanding well how to work and perform well, how the system can work best for customers that adopt their applications.

B (22:04)

All I hear is logistical nightmare. That's all I hear in my head. So, okay, 20,000 certs a year. So obviously these certs are very important. We want to make them searchable. Right. Janine is where people can do it. Tell us a little bit about and we'll put the link in the description. And this is a link that you're definitely going to want to save, especially if you're a Dell Pro Max customer or you know, potentially a future customer. Spend one minute, Janine, just kind of quickly overviewing the ISP certification site, how to use it and where to go.

A (22:34)

Yeah, so you basically want to go to our Dell ISV system level certification for Promex workstations webpage. Basically our webpage is a searchable database of every certification that we've done for the last three and a half to four years between ISVs and our workstation products. And you essentially can look up any product, any version, any operating system and any partner product in version as well. And you can look them up by specific GPUs. So the good news is that this database is 100% searchable and we actually relaunched with a new version 2.0 of the website just a few years ago. In fact, Logan and I partnered on getting this out to our customers. It's hosted on Dell.com and you can find it at www.dell.compro promax isvcertification forward slash. And the good news is that you don't have to enter like five pieces of information to get what you need. You enter one and then you can search that subset of information with one additional word and you can search on anything. You can sort the results. And this is live and active today. So if you ever have a question about certification status with your favorite ISV application or IHV component, you can, this is where you can go. And this is kind of the source of truth for certification status. Now, our partners often publish information as well on their own web pages and maybe in some different format, et cetera. But what we definitely provide is the certified driver, the application name and version, the operating system, and obviously our model of workstation and the GPU within it. So with those parameters you can understand how we can get to 20,000 very quickly in a year.

B (24:34)

Exactly, exactly. So definitely we'll link to this site, you know, in the notes for the episode, if you have it. And one thing, one last thing here before we, I'm going to ask you some rapid fire questions here is that when it comes to certifications, there's kind of these seminal events that require Janine and her team to kind of rally the troops and start certifying, right? That is a new OS, you know, Windows 11 first to Windows 12 or whatever the next one. Microsoft one's going to be a new video driver potentially or you know, new graphics driver, a new video card launch or a new system launch. Right. So if you've been paying attention to the show, which we have, we talk about this all the time. But at GTC this year in 2025, Nvidia launched or announced, I guess the Nvidia RTX Pro Blackwell generation of GPUs that are now in our Dell Promax T2 tower, which is the 6600 watt and then just launched as of this recording. Yeah, two weeks ago in July, or maybe it was last week, I don't know, I can't remember. It's all well burned together. But our Dell Pro max premium and plus with the mobile Blackwells up to the 3000 in the premium and then 5000 in the plus. But just want to take a second to quickly talk about, you know, kind of in a refresh cycle, right. You know, Nvidia, this is the newest architecture. Usually it's about a two year cycle, right. So this is brand new. You can kind of see the differences in terms. But I want to call out two that are, I think really big. One is black or 6000 ADAs versus 6000 Blackwells doubled NVRAM, right. Went from 48 gigs and in the fixed up to 96. So that is more models, more VRAM more simulation, more things that can hold. Obviously it's going to run faster. 2. Is that that it? Within the Blackwell itself there is the 6000 Blackwell. There is, I'm going to screw up the naming convention, but there's the Max q which is 300 watt, which was what ADA was, but there is a Blackwell 600 watt. So it's basically like 2xing because you're doubling the power to it, right? So you're doubling the vram, you're doubling the power. So if you're thinking about, you know, making an upgrade and doing a refresh, this is kind of the, about the right time to do it. I mean we're still launching, you know, kind of some existing products and new products with the Blackwell cards, but we have quite a few that are on the market. So I would highly recommend looking, if you are looking to upgrade once these certifications come in, definitely start looking at the Blackwell generation of cards. Janine, let's go ahead and you know, jump into a couple of rapid fire questions. We've got probably like five, seven minutes left. So you know, let's dig into a personal experience a little bit. Like, you know, in terms of certifications is. I know, I personally know it's a big deal because I've been copied on, you know, the escalations for RFPs being like, where's my certification? And I know it happens, but which industry do you think focuses most on certifications? Like is it engineering, is it manufacturing, is it media, entertainment in terms of a we must have this or we will not buy X, we will not buy a pro Max. Like which one do you think probably is the most particular?

A (27:41)

Yeah, it's probably engineering followed closely by oil and gas. So those two industries absolutely demand certified workstations. And you're absolutely right. I, you know, I'd say within two weeks of an important launch of a new workstation family or GPU family. I'm getting really urgent calls, emails and IMs from the same teams but different members of the teams to try to get to me on when will we have that certification. It's really important. So yeah, there's exciting times but very busy times.

B (28:15)

Oh yeah, exactly. So, and I know that some of the ISVs are like you kind of mentioned, we don't have to get into the specifics. But some are a little more like, hey, you know, you certify it, we're cool. And some are like, no, you must send the system, you must send this. It's going to take time. Like is there a correlation have you seen a correlation between the ones that are more hands on, you know, potentially failing systems like in saying hey, things this the system is not certified or do you feel like that's not necessarily the case?

A (28:47)

Yeah, that is absolutely the case. I would say that those ISVs that test most rigorously, you know, they even use customer samples of documents and things in their testing process. And their testing process can be 8 to 10 weeks running a script and that requires sometimes 2, 2 terabyte drives of storage to store the logs. So those are intense. They absolutely find issues and they'll reach out and say we're not going to be able to certify this, something's here and what that allows us to do. Usually and often we refine the driver that they're using. They have high, you know, in this case in particular, they have very high standards for what driver they want to certify and it needs to be a long term security driver. And those don't always align launch wise with our release of a new product in their test cycle. So, you know, a lot of moving parts trying to coordinate and align availability of the hardware, the driver, availability in the summer months of the folks at the ISV that can do the testing and then availability and collaboration with our own team. So one of the things we can do is, you know, bring all those people together and. But they definitely discover quirks that we can before their customers are buying the product. Which is the whole point.

B (30:02)

Which is the whole point, exactly. To ensure that when you, you know, you're purchasing this expensive software you're purchasing. I don't like to think it's Dell Pro Max is expensive. I like to think is as a solid investment. However, it is more costly than, you know, a Dell, just a regular Dell system that my daughter uses for school. Right. But one question that I have for you, and this is a part that I think people always get hung up on, is let's just say we take software, software X, it might be certified on let's say a Blackwell. Let's use, let's use T2, for example. It might be, once that launches, it might be certified on a 2000 Blackwell all the way to the 6000 Blackwell. But does that mean that the 2000 is even though it's certified, does that mean that it really should run for performance and getting the best out of the system? Should it be just the 2000 or could it be the 4000 or the 6000? Because that's the thing I think people get hung up, they look at and I'M guilty of this too. It's like, hey, you know what do I need to invest? Well, I want to do it the most economical way that I possibly can, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing thing to do. Can you give an example of like, where, hey, it might be certified on X gpu, but you really need it to run higher and what, what that. That first cert actually means?

A (31:22)

So a lot of our ISVs, as you can imagine, they work with many vendors and so. And they often have limited staff, so. And they wear many hats. Like that's not familiar any of us, right?

B (31:33)

Not all. I'm podcasting for the love of God. Exactly.

A (31:36)

And so they appreciate an opportunity to do something we call derivation. Derivation means they look at the very detailed specs of a GPU stack and the detailed specs of a CPU stack that is available on a particular Dell workstation model. Let's say promax 18 plus, right. So that offers five discrete Nvidia GPUs and it has a whole family of CPUs that are available. And so they have test logic that says if I can test the highest CPU in the stack, I know that I'm going to have the performance that I want to ensure our customers will invest in. And if they test the lowest GPU in the stack from a performance standpoint, but with a common graphics family. So let's say Blackwell, they feel that they can derive in the middle, but before they're. And when I say derive, what I mean is they do a physical test on a configuration that they feel is a baseline from a performance standpoint. And they'll then what we call paper, qualify or derive certification for other higher performing configurations in that family whose combination would absolutely be supported given the physical test on the one they select. Now, every ISV has different boundaries here. Some are like, I want to get my hands on every physical system of at least one, and I want to test every physical gpu. In other cases they say we want to test the full stack of black belt GPUs on one Dell workstation platform with one operating system. Once we do that, we're confident that we can derive on other platforms in the family, meaning the Pro Max plus Blackwell GPUs. And so they all have a level of comfort and insight about how their application works. And now hands on time with a full set of GPUs across our family. And then the derivation allows them to not have to spend four months with a thousand machines on shelf behind them running physical tests. On every single physical configuration. So long winded way to answer your question, which is while a physical test might be done on one of four potential configurations, you can rest assured that that ISV understands exactly what technology is in those higher level GPUs. And we know that that higher level GPU in some cases is the right fit for the application and what it demands in terms of performance.

B (34:05)

That makes total sense. This has been great, Janine. And everyone thinks certifications is kind of boring. I don't think it's boring, I think it's awesome. So we're kind of up against it, Janine. So what I like to do to end out rounded out is first take one minute, imagine that someone had just came in to the episode at this point, give them the cliff notes of what they need to walk away with from this episode, from your perspective and.

A (34:28)

Go so ISV system level certifications from Dell specific to the workstation category are powerful enablers of assurance and peace of mind that your adopted mission critical ISV applications will work well with the Dell workstation. And you should feel good and feel confident that by working with Dell technologies you can get an ISV certified workstation and feel that it will perform well and support important work being done in your company.

B (35:01)

You crushed that. Like, you know, we need to go out and cut that out and like make a social clip of that because that was great. And last question, where can people find you like on LinkedIn if you want to share email? You don't have to or, or the ISV email, but where can people find you if they want to go learn more or follow you?

A (35:17)

Sure, yeah. My email at dell is janine themal.com you see my name on the screen and I'm also on LinkedIn. Reach out. Happy to chat, happy to connect. Would love to hear from you about how you've seen value in our certification program for your company.

B (35:34)

I love it. Well Janine, thank you for taking the time to talk to us about certifications. It's always a pleasure, pleasure chatting with you. So with that, like I said, it's going to be a little bit different, right? Certifications are the base that enable kind of everything. Dell Pro Max and Nvidia RTX GPUs, you know, whether meat, entertainment, engineering, ACO, healthcare, scientific, medical, all of it has specialized software that's designed to run on Nvidia rtx, you know, accelerated by Cuda. And you need a Dell Pro Max for that. So with that, want to thank you all for listening. If you want to check out the certification site, it'll be in the comment below or in the the text below the episode where you can go straight to it. And with that, appreciate the time. Keep your workflows until next time, keep your workflows running locally on Delpro Max and Nvidia RTX GPUs and we'll see you on the next one.

A (36:27)

Do what you want do what you want.

B (36:41)

This podcast was produced in partnership with Amaze Media Labs.