Podcast Summary: Restaurant Unstoppable with Eric Cacciatore

Episode 1159 – Tom Barthelmes, Chef and Co-Owner of Finestkind

Date: February 17, 2025

Overview

In this engaging episode, host Eric Cacciatore sits down with Tom Barthelmes, chef and co-owner (with his wife Victoria) of Finestkind, a new breakfast and lunch restaurant in Saco, Maine. The conversation explores Tom’s journey from starry-eyed culinary student, through intense fine-dining kitchens like Per Se, to self-discovery, balance, partnership, and ultimately opening his own community-focused restaurant. Listeners get frank insights on the realities of restaurant ownership, hard lessons from the high-end culinary world, building lasting business partnerships, and creating a values-driven team and culture.

Main Discussion Themes

1. The Early Drive and Culinary Pedigree

[07:33 - 16:59]

• Tom’s culinary passion began with cooking alongside his grandmother and his early dishwashing job at Jerome's Deli.
• Driven by the ideal of perfection and “making it” in the top 1%:
  • “When I was 15 or 16, I googled best restaurant in America and very naively said that's gonna be my goal, Per Se. And Per Se was the goal.” – Tom [08:51]
• Reflects on the reality behind Michelin stars and “best restaurant” ambitions:
  • “I've also had meals that were just as meaningful or just as delicious in much more casual environments... it was more about the company that I was with.” – Tom [10:13]

2. Chasing Perfection – Perils and Burnout at Per Se

[26:41 - 45:19]

• Tom’s relentless focus lands him in prestigious kitchens like Lincoln Ristorante and Per Se, but at great personal cost:
  • Intense pressure, high turnover, and a “perfect or it’s dogshit” work culture.
  • “Every day felt like the Super Bowl... if it’s not perfect, it’s fucking dog shit. Perfect or get out.” – Tom [32:11]
  • “I was having panic attacks going into work... I was a zombie.” – Tom [41:26]
• The contrast between external prestige and actual fulfillment:
  • Customers treated the restaurant as a tourism “bucket list” rather than for genuine hospitality [16:07].
  • Tom eventually leaves Per Se before the standard year—ashamed but knowing it’s necessary for his mental health.

3. Reevaluation – Reconnecting to Purpose and Well-Being

[46:08 - 55:49]

• Tom moves to Portland, Maine, seeking a vibrant food scene with less pressure.
• Experience as expediter and manager at Hugo's, part of Big Tree Hospitality, is a breath of fresh air:
  • “I appreciated so much that it was a bit of a change of pace because I needed to take my foot off the gas. It's really what I did.” [48:33]
• Gains perspective on self-care, community, and redefining success:
  • “Making people happy. Actually making people happy.” – Tom [11:11]
  • "Taking time to gain perspective... is something I still make sure I take time to do." [49:24]
• Moves into management and administration—a first exposure to open-book finances and broader leadership.

4. Building a Foundation and Partnerships

[61:14 - 71:52]

• Returns to cooking at Central Provisions, finds a “golden age” kitchen environment based on mutual respect, clear standards, and autonomy.
  • “People who are naturally ambitious are looking to make decisions and they, they feel gratified and rewarded from the ability to make their own decisions.” – Tom [64:48]
• Weekly meetings and team discussions foster ownership and shared purpose.
• Reaches the realization, with wife Victoria, that they have the skills and drive to open something of their own:
  • “I would always wonder about it if I didn't try to open my own restaurant.” [69:35]
• Forms partnership with Chris and Paige, owners of Central and Tipo, combining their operational expertise and capital with Tom and Victoria’s vision.

5. Financing and the Realities of Opening

[72:03 - 98:13]

• They insist on owning the real estate—a key decision for asset-building and security.
• SBA 504 loan process is fraught with unknown challenges (environmental surveys due to previous laundromat/gas station).
  • “You don't know what questions to ask. Right, right.” – Host [88:29]
• Victoria’s background in construction and relentless saving enabled them to bootstrap and manage the buildout themselves.
• Partners’ reputations and networks were instrumental in securing favorable financing.
• Lessons in construction management: Have clear plans, sequence tasks correctly, anticipate unforeseen issues (especially with refrigeration!).

6. Operations & Culture at Finestkind

[99:12 - 109:41]

• Lean team (just Tom, Victoria, and a couple others), focused menu, and operational discipline keep costs down:
  • “We wanted everything to be very lean and small and to be operated with the smallest crew possible.” – Tom [99:38]
• Culture and meetings take top priority:
  • “We've started implementing a weekly meeting... where we go over not just technical housekeeping, but... a book I read or a quote that someone had seen or an experience out in the community.” – Tom [112:56]
• Transparent finances: Tom and Victoria pay themselves from the start, rather than subsisting on “what’s left.”
• Branding, marketing, and social media are handled mostly in-house, but they recognize the need for future specialization as they grow.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Commitment and Opportunity:

• “The moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too.” – Tom [04:32]
• “If you think you can, you should start. And suddenly all these new pathways will open for you that make it worth starting. There’s magic in just starting and beginning.” – Tom [04:02]

On Redefining Success in Restaurants:

• “Success is relative. Success isn't about making millions of dollars. Success could be if you love making pasta... and you're paying your bills. Is that not success?” – Host [11:14]
• “If I was just here to make money, I probably would be doing something else. As a business, we need to be making money, but we're also here balancing that with some other priorities and that's being part of a community, making people happy.” – Tom [11:43]

On Restaurant Industry Realities:

• “We don’t get into the restaurant industry to get rich. We can, but it doesn’t happen overnight.” – Host [06:38]
• “The world of media and marketing is just really manipulation and controlling the narrative... All Michelin stars are your marketing.” – Host [39:42]

On Leaving High-End Fine Dining:

• “I was having panic attacks going into work. I was a zombie... Victoria was like, ‘I can’t do this. This isn’t really fair to me. I think you need to get out of this.’” – Tom [41:26]
• “If you haven’t been here a year, you’re dead to me.” – Chef’s response to Tom giving notice [44:13]

On Team and Management:

• “You give people who are already naturally ambitious autonomy. And I think people who are naturally ambitious are looking to make decisions and they, they feel gratified and rewarded from the ability to make their own decisions.” – Tom [64:48]
• “Having enough people with you... you can delegate and trust in people as long as the standard is clear and you hold people to the standard.” – Tom [65:38]

On Building a Business with Your Partner:

• “We knew we had worked together and could work together from our time at Lincoln... She fills in all the gaps of my shortcomings.” – Tom [70:58]
• “We wanted to have some kind of equity... unless we were kind of going for a cash flow positive franchise sort of model, it was important for us to have the real estate.” – Tom [72:55]

On Restaurant Finances and Ownership:

• “You have to have skin in the game. The bank isn’t going to give you money unless you’re putting some money in.” [79:15]
• “We are paying ourselves a salary... The only overhead is our utilities and our [fixed] costs.” [104:53]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamps | |---------|--------|-------------| | Early Motivation, Culinary Aspirations | 07:33 – 16:59 | | Restaurant Realities, Burnout at Per Se | 26:41 – 45:19 | | Finding Perspective, Community Focus | 46:08 – 55:49 | | Building Operational Muscle (Hugo's, Central Provisions) | 61:14 – 71:52 | | Getting Funding, Logistics of Opening | 72:03 – 98:13 | | Operating in the Black, Small Team, Systems | 99:12 – 109:41 | | Culture and Team-Building at Finestkind | 112:56 – 114:51 | | Final Advice & Wisdom | 116:11 – 117:04 |

Tom’s Three Pieces of Wisdom

[116:11]

1. "Don't be too cool to care."
2. "We're here in this industry, it's really unique, and that we're here to serve people and make people happy, and everything we do in this building goes towards that."
3. "Know what's important to you."

Takeaways & Lessons for Restaurateurs

• Start with clear intentions and openness—set your goals, communicate them, and put them out into the world.
• Be honest about why you’re in hospitality. Don’t chase accolades for their own sake; focus on meaningful connection and happiness (for yourself and your customers).
• Learn everywhere, but know when to move on. Burnout is real; listen to your limits.
• Strong partnerships are invaluable. Choose financial, operational, and life partners for complementary skills and shared values.
• Own your assets if possible. Real estate ownership offers security and stability often denied to operators leasing space.
• Build and maintain a strong team culture. Clear standards, autonomy, and regular meetings foster retention and excellence.
• Don’t shortcut systems or construction—plan for surprises. Prioritize what really matters in your build-out, and budget for the unknown.
• Pay yourself from the start. Treat yourself as an employee to avoid burnout and measure true profitability.
• Keep learning, stay humble, and keep perspective. Success is a marathon, not a sprint.

Connect with Tom & Finestkind

• Address: 17 Pepperell Square, Saco, Maine
• Instagram: @finestkindmaine
• Website: finestkindmaine.com
• Contact: tom@finestkindmaine.com

Next Guest Recommendation

• Betsy English, owner of Quanto Basta in Portland

“There is no questioning, my friend: you are unstoppable.”

— Eric Cacciatore [118:49]

For show notes, links, resources, and tools, visit: restaurantunstoppable.com/1159