1159: Tom Barthelmes, Chef and Co-Owner of Finestkind

Summary

Podcast Summary: Restaurant Unstoppable with Eric Cacciatore

Episode 1159 – Tom Barthelmes, Chef and Co-Owner of Finestkind

Date: February 17, 2025

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Overview

In this engaging episode, host Eric Cacciatore sits down with Tom Barthelmes, chef and co-owner (with his wife Victoria) of Finestkind, a new breakfast and lunch restaurant in Saco, Maine. The conversation explores Tom’s journey from starry-eyed culinary student, through intense fine-dining kitchens like Per Se, to self-discovery, balance, partnership, and ultimately opening his own community-focused restaurant. Listeners get frank insights on the realities of restaurant ownership, hard lessons from the high-end culinary world, building lasting business partnerships, and creating a values-driven team and culture.

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Main Discussion Themes

1. The Early Drive and Culinary Pedigree

[07:33 - 16:59]

• Tom’s culinary passion began with cooking alongside his grandmother and his early dishwashing job at Jerome's Deli.
• Driven by the ideal of perfection and “making it” in the top 1%:
  • “When I was 15 or 16, I googled best restaurant in America and very naively said that's gonna be my goal, Per Se. And Per Se was the goal.” – Tom [08:51]
• Reflects on the reality behind Michelin stars and “best restaurant” ambitions:
  • “I've also had meals that were just as meaningful or just as delicious in much more casual environments... it was more about the company that I was with.” – Tom [10:13]

2. Chasing Perfection – Perils and Burnout at Per Se

[26:41 - 45:19]

• Tom’s relentless focus lands him in prestigious kitchens like Lincoln Ristorante and Per Se, but at great personal cost:
  • Intense pressure, high turnover, and a “perfect or it’s dogshit” work culture.
  • “Every day felt like the Super Bowl... if it’s not perfect, it’s fucking dog shit. Perfect or get out.” – Tom [32:11]
  • “I was having panic attacks going into work... I was a zombie.” – Tom [41:26]
• The contrast between external prestige and actual fulfillment:
  • Customers treated the restaurant as a tourism “bucket list” rather than for genuine hospitality [16:07].
  • Tom eventually leaves Per Se before the standard year—ashamed but knowing it’s necessary for his mental health.

3. Reevaluation – Reconnecting to Purpose and Well-Being

[46:08 - 55:49]

• Tom moves to Portland, Maine, seeking a vibrant food scene with less pressure.
• Experience as expediter and manager at Hugo's, part of Big Tree Hospitality, is a breath of fresh air:
  • “I appreciated so much that it was a bit of a change of pace because I needed to take my foot off the gas. It's really what I did.” [48:33]
• Gains perspective on self-care, community, and redefining success:
  • “Making people happy. Actually making people happy.” – Tom [11:11]
  • "Taking time to gain perspective... is something I still make sure I take time to do." [49:24]
• Moves into management and administration—a first exposure to open-book finances and broader leadership.

4. Building a Foundation and Partnerships

[61:14 - 71:52]

• Returns to cooking at Central Provisions, finds a “golden age” kitchen environment based on mutual respect, clear standards, and autonomy.
  • “People who are naturally ambitious are looking to make decisions and they, they feel gratified and rewarded from the ability to make their own decisions.” – Tom [64:48]
• Weekly meetings and team discussions foster ownership and shared purpose.
• Reaches the realization, with wife Victoria, that they have the skills and drive to open something of their own:
  • “I would always wonder about it if I didn't try to open my own restaurant.” [69:35]
• Forms partnership with Chris and Paige, owners of Central and Tipo, combining their operational expertise and capital with Tom and Victoria’s vision.

5. Financing and the Realities of Opening

[72:03 - 98:13]

• They insist on owning the real estate—a key decision for asset-building and security.
• SBA 504 loan process is fraught with unknown challenges (environmental surveys due to previous laundromat/gas station).
  • “You don't know what questions to ask. Right, right.” – Host [88:29]
• Victoria’s background in construction and relentless saving enabled them to bootstrap and manage the buildout themselves.
• Partners’ reputations and networks were instrumental in securing favorable financing.
• Lessons in construction management: Have clear plans, sequence tasks correctly, anticipate unforeseen issues (especially with refrigeration!).

6. Operations & Culture at Finestkind

[99:12 - 109:41]

• Lean team (just Tom, Victoria, and a couple others), focused menu, and operational discipline keep costs down:
  • “We wanted everything to be very lean and small and to be operated with the smallest crew possible.” – Tom [99:38]
• Culture and meetings take top priority:
  • “We've started implementing a weekly meeting... where we go over not just technical housekeeping, but... a book I read or a quote that someone had seen or an experience out in the community.” – Tom [112:56]
• Transparent finances: Tom and Victoria pay themselves from the start, rather than subsisting on “what’s left.”
• Branding, marketing, and social media are handled mostly in-house, but they recognize the need for future specialization as they grow.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Commitment and Opportunity:

• “The moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too.” – Tom [04:32]
• “If you think you can, you should start. And suddenly all these new pathways will open for you that make it worth starting. There’s magic in just starting and beginning.” – Tom [04:02]

On Redefining Success in Restaurants:

• “Success is relative. Success isn't about making millions of dollars. Success could be if you love making pasta... and you're paying your bills. Is that not success?” – Host [11:14]
• “If I was just here to make money, I probably would be doing something else. As a business, we need to be making money, but we're also here balancing that with some other priorities and that's being part of a community, making people happy.” – Tom [11:43]

On Restaurant Industry Realities:

• “We don’t get into the restaurant industry to get rich. We can, but it doesn’t happen overnight.” – Host [06:38]
• “The world of media and marketing is just really manipulation and controlling the narrative... All Michelin stars are your marketing.” – Host [39:42]

On Leaving High-End Fine Dining:

• “I was having panic attacks going into work. I was a zombie... Victoria was like, ‘I can’t do this. This isn’t really fair to me. I think you need to get out of this.’” – Tom [41:26]
• “If you haven’t been here a year, you’re dead to me.” – Chef’s response to Tom giving notice [44:13]

On Team and Management:

• “You give people who are already naturally ambitious autonomy. And I think people who are naturally ambitious are looking to make decisions and they, they feel gratified and rewarded from the ability to make their own decisions.” – Tom [64:48]
• “Having enough people with you... you can delegate and trust in people as long as the standard is clear and you hold people to the standard.” – Tom [65:38]

On Building a Business with Your Partner:

• “We knew we had worked together and could work together from our time at Lincoln... She fills in all the gaps of my shortcomings.” – Tom [70:58]
• “We wanted to have some kind of equity... unless we were kind of going for a cash flow positive franchise sort of model, it was important for us to have the real estate.” – Tom [72:55]

On Restaurant Finances and Ownership:

• “You have to have skin in the game. The bank isn’t going to give you money unless you’re putting some money in.” [79:15]
• “We are paying ourselves a salary... The only overhead is our utilities and our [fixed] costs.” [104:53]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamps | |---------|--------|-------------| | Early Motivation, Culinary Aspirations | 07:33 – 16:59 | | Restaurant Realities, Burnout at Per Se | 26:41 – 45:19 | | Finding Perspective, Community Focus | 46:08 – 55:49 | | Building Operational Muscle (Hugo's, Central Provisions) | 61:14 – 71:52 | | Getting Funding, Logistics of Opening | 72:03 – 98:13 | | Operating in the Black, Small Team, Systems | 99:12 – 109:41 | | Culture and Team-Building at Finestkind | 112:56 – 114:51 | | Final Advice & Wisdom | 116:11 – 117:04 |

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Tom’s Three Pieces of Wisdom

[116:11]

1. "Don't be too cool to care."
2. "We're here in this industry, it's really unique, and that we're here to serve people and make people happy, and everything we do in this building goes towards that."
3. "Know what's important to you."

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Takeaways & Lessons for Restaurateurs

• Start with clear intentions and openness—set your goals, communicate them, and put them out into the world.
• Be honest about why you’re in hospitality. Don’t chase accolades for their own sake; focus on meaningful connection and happiness (for yourself and your customers).
• Learn everywhere, but know when to move on. Burnout is real; listen to your limits.
• Strong partnerships are invaluable. Choose financial, operational, and life partners for complementary skills and shared values.
• Own your assets if possible. Real estate ownership offers security and stability often denied to operators leasing space.
• Build and maintain a strong team culture. Clear standards, autonomy, and regular meetings foster retention and excellence.
• Don’t shortcut systems or construction—plan for surprises. Prioritize what really matters in your build-out, and budget for the unknown.
• Pay yourself from the start. Treat yourself as an employee to avoid burnout and measure true profitability.
• Keep learning, stay humble, and keep perspective. Success is a marathon, not a sprint.

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Connect with Tom & Finestkind

• Address: 17 Pepperell Square, Saco, Maine
• Instagram: @finestkindmaine
• Website: finestkindmaine.com
• Contact: [e-mail]

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Next Guest Recommendation

• Betsy English, owner of Quanto Basta in Portland

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“There is no questioning, my friend: you are unstoppable.”

— Eric Cacciatore [118:49]

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For show notes, links, resources, and tools, visit: restaurantunstoppable.com/1159

Transcript

[Host]

So finding balance was one way you grew. How else did you grow?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think it's really just taking time to gain perspective I think was really big for me. Like I said, with just foot on the gas, I didn't even realize how much I wasn't taking care of myself and my own mental health. And I was so fixated and focused on the idea of perfection and this goal and if I let myself down that I'd be a failure. And I think taking that time to gain perspective is something I still make sure I take time to do because I can lose the plot so easily when I easily fixate on stuff and then I forget.

[Host]

Welcome to restaurant unstoppable. For 10 years and over 1000 episodes I've been traveling the country chasing word of mouth leads and having in person only long form discussions with the industry's finest owners and operators. Our mission is to inspire, empower, transform the restaurant industry by bridging the gap between this generation's leaders and the next. Listen to today's guests and so many others and get one step closer to becoming unstoppable. This episode is brought to you by me. With me, you can standardize your culinary IP and stay in sync, giving the culinary team the ability to both create recipes and distribute them from the same platform. You can train your team quickly and maintain dish consistency by turning your recipes into interactive training material. And you can get laser accurate food costs because ME allows you to calculate the yield of ingredients with prep loss included. Create a free account by visiting getme.comunstoppable that's G-E-T M E E Z.com unstoppable and as a listener of Restaurant Unstoppable, you can get 25 recipes uploaded to your me's account for free. Sign up today and learn more at G E T m e e z.com forward/unstoppable. The new year is here. It's 2025 and restaurant assistance Pro is extending their deal through February of 2025. Here's the deal. When you join Restaurant Systems Pro through February of 2025, they will handle your 2024 books at no charge. Why are they doing this? Because they know how stressful and time consuming it is to get caught up on bookkeeping. Restaurant Systems Pro you the power of their all in one restaurant accounting system so you can experience the difference for yourself. Here's what Restaurant Systems Pro will take care of for you. Organization of all invoices and expenses AI scanning of products so you know the usage Reconciliation of your accounts tracking inventory and labor costs and providing detailed P and L reports. And the best part, you never have to deal with QuickBooks again. Ready to see how it works? Head to restaurant unstoppable.com RSP and be sure to mention this special offer. Let's make 2025 the year your restaurant thrives. P S. This offer is only available through February of 2025. Don't miss your chance to start 2025 with stress free up to date books with excitement. Allow me to introduce to you today's guest chef and co owner of Finest kind, Tom Brady. Barthelm is my man. Tom, are you feeling unstoppable today?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Feeling unstoppable, dude.

[Host]

Psyched to have you here. You were called out by past boss and now partner Paige Gould. And she had amazing things to say about you and Victoria. Victoria couldn't make it today. Sorry you couldn't be here. Victoria, maybe in the future I can get you behind the microphone, but today we're here to share your story. How you got here. I can't wait to dive in. But first let's get that motivational inspirational ball rolling with a success quote or mantra. What do you got for us?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Sure. I think one that kind of resonated with me when I was starting this whole process is a Goethe quotes old German writer where he basically says the moment one commits oneself, then providence moves too. I think it's. It's really kind of a deep quote. That just means if you think you can, you should start. And suddenly all these new pathways will open for you that make it worth starting. There's magic in just starting and beginning.

[Host]

I love that.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And going.

[Host]

Say it one more time.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

The moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves to.

[Host]

Yeah man, I love that. And it's hitting hard with me right now. So I'm on this commitment of reading the. I'm reading two books once a week or one. I'm alternating between two books every other week. The first book is the Compound Effect by Darren Hardy and the second book is Eat that Frog by Brian Tracy. In both those books just focus on achieving big, audacious, hairy goals and like. Like developing habits and setting goals and like the things you can do. And that's a big part of what the compound effect is all about. Just start and stay consistent and it compounds and things just start to happen. Right? Yeah man. It's super powerful school of thought. Great way to get this thing started. And before we kind of tell your story, give us an idea of where you are today relative to your business. So where Are you today?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Sure. So, Finest Kind opened very quietly. Um, September 1st. We missed the summer. Our original plan was to open for this. The. This past summer. And that old cliche that restaurants are more difficult and more expensive to open than you're going to anticipate is pretty true.

[Host]

There's some truth there. Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So we're new. We're very new. We've only been open, I guess, five months. September, October, November, December, and now January. Gosh, it's been five months, which is like.

[Host]

You guys are closed today. Breakfast, lunch.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

We're closed today. Yep. Tuesdays.

[Host]

Five days a week.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Five days a week. For now.

[Host]

Catering.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

We are doing some catering. Yeah. We just did a wedding for 115 people up in topsome.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Which was a lot of fun.

[Host]

Awesome. So the question everybody wants to know. Percent profit.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Percent profit. Sure. I think there have been a lot of extra expenses kind of associated with just opening a restaurant, but I don't think it's also fair to say that, oh, expenses only happen when you first open a restaurant. They're always going to be there. So. So we're a bit of above our break even. I think when we had first started before, we had a couple surprise expenses. We were getting close to 10%.

[Host]

We'll dive into that, man. We'll. We'll pick that apart and we'll talk about the challenges associated with opening. And, I mean, that's why we're here, to get vulnerable. I think, you know, it's a hard industry, man. And when I started this podcast like that, like, I was inspired by all these, like, tech entrepreneurs sharing how they make their millions and how that you can do it, too, making money online. And I was like, I want to create this motivational, inspirational podcast for the restaurant owners and talking about how all these restaurant owners are making millions and millions of dollars. And the reality is that's like the top 1% of the 1% that are doing that. You know, we don't get into the restaurant industry to get rich. We can, but it doesn't happen overnight. So, you know, I think it's just the reality of the industry that's really hard work, and I want to dive into those realities. I want to be transparent. So thank you for being vulnerable and opening, man. I appreciate that. So you have a really great back story in terms of pedigree, where you came from. So where does it make sense to start telling that story?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Oh, well, I started as a child, as we. Most. Most of us do. I started washing dishes at 15 years old. I knew I wanted to cook. I cooked a lot as a kid growing up. My grandmother lived with us, which is to me as a kid was very normal, but actually seemed like most people didn't have their grandparent living with them growing up. So she taught me a lot behind the stove. I was often cooking breakfasts for the family with my grandmother. I think that kind of started the passion, love I had for cooking. Yeah, I think as a teenager, I decided I wanted to pursue it seriously. It was kind of the. Kind of a new age of TV in the industry, and Top Chef was a big. A big deal, and all these cooking shows were coming to life. I mean, I watched Top Chef right after, you know, I'd watch Rachel Ray and Julia Child reruns, you know, on pbs. So I was really kind of obsessed with it, and I think I wanted to go very high end with it. So I think when I was 15 or 16, I googled best restaurant in America and very naively said that's gonna be my goal, per se. And per se was the goal. So that's what I set out to do. And I went to culinary school, went to the CIA in Hyde Park. That's where I met my wife partner, Victoria, and then we went from there.

[Host]

Now, did you work in restaurants before going to CIA?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I did, yeah. I got a job starting as a dishwasher in Manchester, New Hampshire, Jerome's Deli. He's the only guy that would hire me at 15. But I really wanted to get that experience in to be able to go to the CIA, because at the time you needed, it was either six months or a year of experience, and nobody was hiring me. So he gave me a chance. And then eventually I got to be a prep cook and then a line cook. And then before I graduated high school, I was kind of a manager. And I really admired Jerry, who's my boss. He was tough, hard ass, sometimes scary in his intensity, but he also showed me how to mop a floor. He showed me how to work hard.

[Host]

Yeah. Reflecting back at your younger self and looking at, you know, wanting to go work for the best restaurant, all this. Do you think that this idea of the best restaurant kind of like, holds up in terms of. I feel like a lot of people set their eyes on, like, the Michelin stars, Jane Beard, and like the, the glitz, the glam, the top 1%.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right.

[Host]

The restaurants that serve the top 1% of people. Right. Do you think that there's like. Is that like a dessert? Is that. What am I trying to say? Is there like A false reality there.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think they're, you know, it's. It's sort of like the question what's the best wine? And I think the answer to that is it's whatever wine you like to drink. I think the best restaurant, if it's the Michelin starred, if it's the dozens of man hours that go into one dish and is really technically precise and beautiful and elegant, if that's what does it for you, then I suppose it is the best. But I think I've also had meals that were just as meaningful or just as delicious and much more casual environments than it was more about the company that I was with.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So I think, you know, that goal of shooting for a Michelin star kitchen I think is a good starting place. I learned a ton, A ton. And I. Those are lessons that I really, really value and treasure from working it. But I'm also, I think, a little bit wiser now and know what's important to me.

[Host]

What is important to you?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Making people happy. Yeah, actually making people happy.

[Host]

Yeah. I'm happy you said that. Because, you know, one thing when we're talking about like I asked you about the profit, right. And I think that what's really important and you have to wrap your mind about around in this industry is that success is relative. Success isn't about making millions of dollars. Success could be if you love making pasta and you want a place to share your passion with pasta and work in a kitchen all day rolling pasta, and you're doing that and people see you and love you and you're paying your bills. Is that not success?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, I think so. I think one of our first meetings we had with our team here, kind of half a joke, but half serious, is that if I was just here to make money, I probably would be doing something else. As a business, we need to be making money, but we're also here balancing that with some other priorities and that's being part of a community, making people happy.

[Host]

Right. But you see so many people who are like successful in the sense of they scale and they have all these restaurants and they're working 70, 80 hours a week. And are they happy?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Well, I think it's case by case. I think there are some people who really thrive in environments like that. I've worked with those people and I think I was maybe even a bit envious of those people that could just handle and thrive and almost need that pressure. And I found that I, I did not do as well with that pressure and wanted to kind of reevaluate I know for me, the answer would be no. I wasn't happy doing that.

[Host]

When you were in that world.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

I mean, you look, this is something I like to talk about because you look at some of the people who are, quote, unquote, the best, and this isn't everybody. I'm not putting everybody into this, you know, category that has risen to the top. But a lot of people who have risen to the top are kind of mentally unwell. Like they might be obsessive compulsive or ego driven or they live for the star and their, their ego and their identity is tied to that. And if they lose it, it's like they're worthless, you know, and it's just like, is that healthy? But now to your point earlier, like, when you got started in the industry, like, that was your goal, that was where you wanted to be. And I feel like it's almost like the media gets a hold of this and they, they. We're in the business of transporting people and creating false realities. That's what we do. There's a facade that we create. You're not supposed to know the reality of what goes into creating that experience. And you as the consumer see that world that we, that dance, we do, that facade we put up and there's, it's, it's almost just like it pulls young people into this industry. And then when you get behind the, when you see behind the curtain, it's just like, whoa.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. I mean, I've worked with people, you know, one chef in particular I worked with, that I never saw him make a mistake once. I also never saw him smile once. He's deadly serious and an unbelievable technician and craftsman. But, I mean, I don't know, maybe he'd be able to answer that. He is happy and that's just what he wants to do, and that's fine. And that works for the individual. Yeah, I think it's important to have the goals to kind of, you know, set a star to kind of affix your, your path towards. Because otherwise I think you can maybe get a little aimless and adrift. And, you know, I think I sometimes struggle with identifying myself as what I do. I think a lot of people do. Defining yourself as, as the success of your stars or your, your pedigree, your reputation. Got it. I think it's, I think it's very important for the, for your long term sanity to find what really is important and pursue that.

[Host]

When did this happen for you? So for you it was happiness or making people happy?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

When did you figure that out? That was what you love about this industry?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Well, I think. I think I knew that pretty early, early on, which is what kind of got me into it in the first place. And then I think as you start to pursue, or as I started to pursue the fine dining route, I think maybe you kind of lose why you did it in the first place. Because there is so much work that goes into it. Maybe you lose a part of yourself and you forget why you did it. And I think stepping away from that world and getting into restaurants that didn't operate like that, like Chris and Pages, where people are treated a bit more respectfully, a little more like humans, and you're able to see the effect that your food has on people and bringing people together and making them happy.

[Host]

When, for you, did you have to step away? Like, when was this. Like, this point of reflection for you?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Hmm. Well, it was at Per Se. Yeah. We'd often have people come back into the kitchen after their meal to see the kitchen, say hello. It's kind of part of the dance. You know, sometimes they have the kitchen, the chefs, other restaurants from all over.

[Host]

The country come in.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. So we'd have people come in and they'd say, hi, they take a photo with the chef, and they'd leave. Say hi, take a photo with the chef, and they leave. And I almost felt like a. Like a tourist attraction. Like it was almost like folks were coming there to cross it off a bucket list. And I was working, you know, 70, 80 hours a week, toiling, learning a lot, but, boy, feeling it, feeling the pressure. And then realized I sort of became disenchanted and disenfranchised with it, that I was just a bucket list thing that people were just checking off, and I was putting my entire life into it, and I think I kind of lost the plot a little bit, and I realized that I had to step away from it.

[Host]

Yeah, we can bookmark that and come back to it, because I don't want to get too far ahead of your come up. So passionate with food, fell in love, cooking with the family, watching tv, CIA. What was the biggest impact the CIA had on you, aside from meeting your wife?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

That was probably a pretty big one. Yeah. I would say it's really the connections that are available if you pursue them there. I think you can get by there with just kind of going to classes and graduating and not getting a whole lot out of your experience. But I think if you want to take full advantage of all the connections that that place has to Offer. I don't think there's any better place.

[Host]

Yeah, I really do think that is the biggest benefit of going to, whether it be CIA or Johnson and Wales. It's the knowledge is valuable, don't get me wrong. But it's the. The network. And if you can prove yourself to those professors and you can grind, you can show them that you want it and you have it, they will open doors. They will get you in for sure.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. It's how I got my first job out of school, and it's how I got to work with a really incredible pastry chef while I was there, Francisco Magoya, who's now, I think he's running the pastry program for NOMA right now.

[Host]

Is that what you wanted to do, pastry?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, no, I did the. The savory kitchen program, but it was sort of like an after school job there. They have the apple pie bakery cafe that is basically staffed by students of the class. So the first part of your classroom experience there is in the kitchen. And then you transfer up to the front of house, so you get to learn back house and front of house of a cafe setting. And Chef Magoya ran the kitchen there.

[Host]

Are you living. Are you making a livable wage while working there?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No. Well, I mean, it's essentially a campus job, more or less. I think there were other campus jobs. I could have worked at the front desk, the alumni office, or at the rec center, which I did, and realized that I absolutely would never sit behind a desk.

[Host]

Got it.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Ever. I can't do it.

[Host]

What was the biggest way that this experience transformed you today? Aside from the network and the connections?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It was just this. It was really the introduction to what? The highest end world of cooking and restaurants and hospitality. The absolute height of professionalism. You know, it was just a cafe on campus at a culinary school, but Chef Magoya ran it like a Michelin star kitchen.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

How'd you feel as a student here?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

How do I feel as a student?

[Host]

So, like, you're. You had this vision, right? As a young high school kid thinking about what it would be like when you got into the world of culinary. Like, was it. Were you living your dream or.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It was exciting. I mean, it's still sort of anything is possible and kind of seeing this world kind of open up for you was. Was really, really exciting. I enjoyed my time at school, honestly. Made some great friends there even. I went to the Culinary institute with two of my best friends from high school, which is kind of crazy. It was not something we had planned or said like, oh, where do you guys want to go? And we all went the same place. We all just kind of decided to go at the same time. And they're still, you know, lifelong great friends.

[Host]

I love that. Was there debt associated with culinary school debt?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, some. Some for sure. My parents helped me a little bit, but they didn't pay for all of it. So I applied for a lot of scholarships and prioritized in my 20s, paying off the loans.

[Host]

Nice.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

Good for you. That's awesome. This episode is brought to you by me's. Running the Back of House brings a whole suite of challenges like distributing intellectual property from your chef's brain to your back of house team across all of your locations. Once that information gets distributed, you still have to train your back of house to ensure the recipes are being execut accurately and consistently. Once everybody is trained, you still have to nail down profit calculations, which can be a nightmare when your team doesn't fully understand theoretical food costs, factoring in yields and unit conversions. Then once all this is done, you still have to push the information across all of your locations in real time, factoring in the prices that are constantly changing. Are you kidding me? That's where Mies comes in with me. You can standardize your culinary intellectual property and stay in sync as a team. You can train your team quickly and maintain dish consistency by turning your recipes into interactive training material. And you can get laser accurate food costs because me's allows you to calculate the yields of your ingredients with prep loss included. Create a free account by visiting getmes.com unstoppable. That's G-E-T-M-E-E-Z.com unstoppable. And as a listener of Restaurant Unstoppable, you can get 25 recipes uploaded to your me's account for free. Sign up today and learn more at G E T M E forward slash Unstoppable. So CIA, you end up going back to New York. Where did you find yourself after?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

CIA?

[Host]

Or you went from Hyde park to New York City?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yes, yes. So one of the culinary teachers Instructors are called TAs there. His name was Matt Siciliano. Chef Matt Siciliano. He had worked with Jonathan Benno, who had owned Lincoln at the time Lincoln Restaurante. And I think he was the one that I basically made the connection with. And that's kind of why I brought up connections as being the most important thing to me at CIA. And he basically kind of introduced me to Jonathan Beno, who happened to be doing a demo that day, a little seminar on campus. And Then I ended up kind of working a program with Chef Benno where I was kind of going into Lincoln about once a month or so on the weekends to be an unpaid stagier or a trail. So I would go probably, probably once every other month I would say I would go down to Lincoln and just kind of keep the connection going because I'll be graduating in a year and I'm interested in working here. And that's, that's what I did.

[Host]

Nice.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

But I'd go down, take the train down, sometimes sleep on my sister's couch who lived in Jersey across the river. Yeah.

[Host]

So at this point, was the goal for you to be a restaurant owner or did you just want to work in restaurants?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, I think I wanted to be a restaurant owner. I think I wanted to own multiple restaurants. And without even really knowing what that really means and what that lifestyle is like. But yeah, my goal was to be a chef. A chef owner.

[Host]

Did you have like a, like a date, an age, like a, like a, you know, the goals have to be smart. Was it time specific?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I, I, I want to say I had the goal of like, doing it by the time I was 30 or something.

[Host]

Well, not too far off, man. You're 33 years old.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

Right?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

Pretty good. So in your mind, what was the path to getting to ownership by the age of 30?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Grinding. Working through as many restaurants as I could, learning as much as I could, and running somebody else's restaurant for a bit before doing it myself.

[Host]

Right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

As I realized how much goes into it, I was like, I need to spend somebody else's funny money for a little bit before I.

[Host]

100%. Yeah. I mean, before you go into massive debt and, like, figure it out. Like, do I really want this life of running restaurants? So the path you took, from what I can see. So when did you graduate CIA?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Graduated CIA in the fall or winter of 2012.

[Host]

2012. So three years in New York. By 2015, you're in Portland, Maine. Why did you leave New York?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think I had burnt out a little bit. I was pushing really hard. You know, you kind of, when you're that fixed on a goal, it can become, I think, common to maybe stop taking care of yourself. And I kind of lost perspective a little bit. And I thought I wasn't going to cook anymore. If this is the high end, kitchens are going to just wear me down. I can't, I can't do it. So I'm going to do something else maybe adjacent to the industry. I thought maybe I would be A sommelier. I've always had kind of interest in wine and was fairly, you know, I guess, okay at it at school because they have a wine training program at the CIA. And so I left New York because I knew Portland had this great food scene. Victoria and I had actually spent a long weekend up here in Portland, I think, either when I was at Per Se, right before I started Per Se, and we had a meal at a new restaurant in town called Central Provisions. Okay. Yeah. They had just been open for a few months, and we sat at the counter, and Ken Orringer was seated right next to us. I had just done a trail at his restaurant, I think a year or so before that. Clio in Boston. I'd done a week there, so it was really kind of a cool experience. I watched the way Chef Chris Gould ran his kitchen. The food that we had was dynamite, and everyone seemed relaxed. It was a little less fussy, but I had just as good of a meal.

[Host]

I'm circling around Ken Orange. I would love to get him on the show.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Chef Chris would probably be the one to talk to about that. I know he still talks to him.

[Host]

Well, hey, Chris. Chef Chris is also open invitation. From what I understand, Paige is the one that handles the media.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

She's also fantastic. Very lucky to have her on the show. I do kind of want to unpackage this time at Per Se a little bit. So you were a year at Apple. What was Apple.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Apple Pie Cafe. Yeah. So about a year for 2011, 2012, I guess that's where I met Victoria at Lincoln Restaurante. Then I was at Lincoln for two years.

[Host]

Two years. That's three years.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Well, Apple Pie Cafe is still up in Hyde Park.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. That's on campus.

[Host]

How many years were you at Per Se?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I was there for nine months.

[Host]

Nine months.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Nine months. Which was kind of a big deal because it's. It's. You're supposed to do a year.

[Host]

Yeah. So that was your goal. I mean, I think it's really cool that you had this vision, you had this goal. Was getting hired there hard for you?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I mean, it took a lot of legwork. I suppose it's easy to say you had to network. Right. And I had to kind of prove myself with Chef Benno. I think is. Is kind of what was the appeal for me for working for Chef Benno, because he had been running Per Se for about, I think, five or six years as a chef de cuisine as they opened, and I wanted to still work and learn from him in a light, slightly more Relaxed setting. There's nothing relaxed about Jonathan Beno. He's a super serious, focused, talented guy. But it's, you know, one star versus three stars, I guess. And I sort of saw it as a stepping stone to be able to get to per se. So I did tell him, I think about a year and a half in. I was like, chef, I'd like to. To go up the street, down the street, I guess, 59th, 65th. Sorry. And. And. And do that. And he said, I think you can. I think you can do it. So I had the opportunity, and he was super supportive. And he's like, I think, you know, you should go. We'll figure it out here. We'll replace your position. And they did, you know, as restaurants always do.

[Host]

How much time do you think you should give a restaurant before leaving?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I mean, the bare minimum is. Is two weeks, but this was a very open dialogue.

[Host]

That was a staunch. Right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

What do you mean?

[Host]

Like, I'm talking about. You said two weeks. Like I'm saying, if you get hired at a restaurant.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

Oh, no, I'm sorry. If you get hired, how long. How much time do you think you should give a restaurant before going to another restaurant?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Oh, oh, I. Sorry.

[Host]

Not two weeks.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No. I mean, the end. The standard is a year. The standard is a year. Yeah.

[Host]

And you gave yourself. You gave them more than a year. Because you said it was a year. That. Where you're working with Chef Beno. Then you told him that.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, it was about a year and a half I've been working for Chef Beno and said, that is my ultimate goal. I wasn't giving notice because, you know, all he had to do is say, don't hire this guy. And, you know, it would have shut that down.

[Host]

I think there's, yeah, definitely a lesson there to make your intentions known. I think a lot of times people are afraid of what happens when they tell the truth. When you tell people what you want, what you want might not be in the best interest of the party you're telling. Right. But when you set your intention, nine times out of 10, unless the person you're working for is a complete D bag, like, they're gonna help you get to that place.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right.

[Host]

You know, so by setting that intention, you can't manifest what you want in the world, in the universe, unless you won't put it into the universe. So you had the vision, you had the goal for yourself, but you also said out loud to somebody who could help you get there, this is what I want. And then from that Point on, how did that relationship change?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It was. He was very supportive. I think he kind of knew that that's what I really wanted to do. I. I don't know, kind of have the. I like fussy things. I like, you know, I like to be really specific and worked clean and technical. I just wanted to do everything right so that he would be able to be in a position to give me the blessing, I guess, to be able to.

[Host]

Was your time there.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

More intentional time at Lincoln?

[Host]

Yeah, from saying this out, you know, I think.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think it was, to be honest with you. Yeah. I think per se was kind of like the goal. And I started feeling. When I got there, I was like, wait, now what? Yeah, but at Lincoln, it was still. I still had the goal. Right?

[Host]

Yeah. I can't. I think it's just so powerful to tell people, even if you're a business partner, you're going to work for somebody. Right. And you say, I want to be a partner of yours someday. Right. Like, put it out there. Like. Like once people know what your intentions are, like. Like, that's your. I think that's what life does it like. I think life, all life, has the ability to warp probability or influence probability. Like, it has this way of willing things, you know, but we hold back. Sometimes we're afraid to put it out there. So when you got to per se, like, your dream happened, but after nine months, it was no longer a dream.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, take us through that evolution emotionally, like, from getting there to leaving.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think I went from striving for something towards really trying to just not fail. And I think that's.

[Host]

Were you afraid of failing? Was that something that was on the table?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Completely, yeah.

[Host]

Why? What made you think that you could fail?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Well, I would see it, I guess, happen to other people. The turnover was really high. Kitchen was very, very intense. There's no talking, there's no music. Granted, there wasn't really any of that at Jonathan Beno's kitchen either. But it was just every day kind of felt like the Super Bowl. And sometimes a mantra like, today's the super bowl. Like, there's no. We get one shot at the person coming in here spending a thousand, two thousand, five thousand dollars a person to be perfect. People are expecting it to be perfect. And if it's not perfect, am I allowed to swear on the podcast? Yeah, if it's not perfect, it's fucking dog shit. Yeah, it's perfect or it's get out.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

You know, so those were the stakes every day. And it felt like Very perilous. And any mistake is perilous. It meant, you know, getting berated, yelled at, sent home, you know, and all I wanted to do is just not. Not fail. And I think that was the wrong mentality to have. Looking back on it, I wish I had taken the same mentality I had at Lincoln of trying to succeed rather than trying not to fail. It's a. It's a. It seems like the same thing, but it's actually, it's really not.

[Host]

Well, when you get to your destination, you're working to get something, but when you get there, you're. You're working to not lose it, right? So I think that paradigm shift, you know, like, it's like getting a star, right? You got it. Your dream came true. Now it's your nightmare, because what, now you have to, like, keep it, right? You know, I think it's a similar parallel. So. But how did you grow during this time? I mean, I don't want to make it all doom and gloom, but I'm sure you grew during this time.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So there were. There were times where I felt like I was finally getting a rhythm and I had a good relationship with maybe the sous chef I had been working with and starting to feel good. And then, you know, it would get hard again. It's just.

[Host]

It's.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Gosh, it's a difficult place to work. Any. Any place where it's. You've got three stars, it's gonna be a difficult place to work. It's a pressure cooker.

[Host]

What was the hardest time for you?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Hardest time would. Well, I. I think it was just adapting to the workload, adapting to the stress.

[Host]

Was there a specific time, a specific struggle where you, where you look back at where. Like that just like, you know, every.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Day was kind of like getting the prep list done felt insurmountable. Almost every day where I had to. Every minute of my day had to be completely planned and accounted for. And if I fell behind on one thing, I'm done. If I. If I burn something, like, perish the thought. Like, if you're five minutes late on something, it's like, now you have to ask for help.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Oh, you can't handle the station. Why are you here? You know, so, you know, I'd be on a train or something going into work, and the train would stop underground and say, hey. Or 10 minute delay. It's like my day is ruined. Going into work before I even get there. I'm now 10 minutes behind on my list, and I'm about to work that much how far of a train?

[Host]

Where was it for you?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

25, 30 minutes? Yeah, it really wasn't that bad.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

But every day just felt so fraught with that tension and that stress. And some people, like I said, some people thrive on that. And part of me wishes I was that kind of person. Right, Don't.

[Host]

And I think that's an important distinction to make, that there. One thing I've learned that drove me crazy to get to this point, to, like, figure this out, is that there is no one path. There is no one way. As somebody who started a podcast who literally, like. Like, shine a spotlight on the path to success in the restaurant industry, I couldn't find the path. Because what you'd learn from one perspective, and then you'd have a completely different perspective, telling you, though, this is the way. And what I've learned is that there are a million different ways with a million different destinations and a million different types of hikers, you know, setting out on that path. So, like, you have to pick the path that makes sense for you. Some people are better in a kayak, you know, like. Like, there is no way, and there is no. There are so many different types of people, you know, so for some people, that path is what they need and want, and they love it. They thrive in it. To your point.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right.

[Host]

What? Can you give me some more idea of, like, the economics of this type of restaurant? Like you said, 2,000, $3,000 per table, right? Right. Per guest.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

A list. Celebrities coming in all the time, having their birthday party.

[Host]

How many seats?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Jeez. I think it's probably available online. It's probably like 50 or 60.

[Host]

How many turns in a night? Two.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It's usually like, I think, like two and a half more.

[Host]

Two and a half?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And then we'd also have the parlor, the salon, I think it is. That's another 20 seats. And we opened that up for a la carte.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So we were doing. We were actually doing numbers that were higher, guest wise, number of reservations or number of people we served in a night that was much higher than they had done in years past. At least according to. For example, I talked to Matt Siciliano, the guy who introduced me to Benno. He had worked at eleven Madison and Per Se, and he'd said that, you know, they'd max out at 80 or 90 covers. Is it. That's all they would do. That was a lot. And we were doing 125 on a Friday, which 20%, 30% increase is not $125,000. No, no, I'm sorry, 125 people.

[Host]

Oh, I was thinking, I was doing the math. I was like, it's 120 and 130 is where I was thinking at an average of 2,000 per head, I'm not.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Sure what the check average was. I knew that the. I know the restaurant relies on wine sales for sure. You know, there's so many bodies in that kitchen. The labor is right. They don't necessarily talk to the line cooks about the economics of it. But I do know that the wine program was so necessary for that restaurant model, that type of restaurant.

[Host]

So they're doing about 24, 000 a night. Is that.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I mean, at least I think, yeah.

[Host]

Way more than that to play it safe. Right. Like I'm. I don't know, like, I'm not the best best. We can break all the. Please back me up with a calculator. But I think one thing that you have to keep in mind, I think.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It'S probably closer to like 50, probably 50, 100.

[Host]

I don't even want to know what the rent is. So you think the first thing you're like, oh, well, you know, they're in New York City, they're probably paying close to 20, if not more, 30,000amonth for rent. Right. So you got to factor that in. But I guess where I'm going with this is like, I kind of. I get that world, but at the same time, I really encourage people not to, like, aspire to that world.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right. It's such a specific business model. Like I said, you know, they don't. As a line cook, they're not talking about really the economics of it. And that was very much kind of a closed off world, unless I was probably, you know, gonna work my way up to being a sous chef or chef's cuisine or something, which I knew I was not gonna do. That world was gonna be closed off to me. But I knew that it's a very, very specific business model that's usually not available to most people you need.

[Host]

Yeah. And I think that's the other thing.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Wealthy partners to get that started. It's millions to. To open restaurants like that.

[Host]

They're serving the top 1% of the 1%. They're in New York City. And only 1% of the people in New York City can afford to eat there. Right. So I think you really have. And I think when we, as young people, so many people see that and they say, that's what I want. But do you. You know, and I really point my finger at media, I, I think marketing, when I say things like marketing is the bane of human existence. This is what I mean. Because all Michelin stars are your marketing major. I know, and that's why I went into it like you were when you're bright eyed and hopeful, you know, and then you start going into things, you're like, this is like, like the world of media and marketing is just really manipulation and controlling the narrative, the agenda. And there's a lot, there's a mile wide gray area in the world of marketing, you know, but I think that media like just gets a hold of these things. Like the Michelin star, all that is, is marketing, James Beard's marketing. You know, I think, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, I totally, it totally is. I also think. Let's go on a totally different tangent, but we're seeing with media almost the homogenization of say, style. So many restaurants I think look like other restaurants who look like other restaurants who are trying to put, I think, you know, after like the Scandinavian food movement of you had like fabicins and Nomas and stuff, suddenly everyone was doing the perfect dollop canal and then like one inch away is one protein on the plate and that was it kind of thing. You see that now. Everyone does that.

[Host]

Right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think, I think media has kind of opened up to a little bit of sameness and I think we kind of miss a little bit more variety with everyone trying to execute a specific ideal of what my food should look like. So it's Instagramable. But I will say the counter to, I guess blaming everything on the media and the marketing. I think from as a cook, there's something kind of intoxicating or captivating about the idea of perfection. How far can I push myself in this pursuit to what might be the idea of perfection? And then you realize that perfection is not actually real. And that's absolutely achievable. It's maddening.

[Host]

Yeah, for sure. Thank you for going into this. So you decide nine months. At nine months, what happened for you to say, I've, I've gotten my experience, I reached my destination and I'm ready to deboard this train.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, I think. Well, it wasn't, to me, it wasn't really a triumphant thing. I think I. It was sort of like a tail between my legs kind of moment. I was maybe ashamed, I guess of myself that I didn't, I wanted to at least do a year.

[Host]

Did you quit or do you get fired?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, no, I didn't get fired. I quit. I was Having panic attacks, going into work. I was a zombie. And Victoria was like, I can't do this. This isn't really fair to me. And she's like, I don't think it's fair to you. I think you need to get out of this. This is not. You're not enjoying this. Even when I was at home, I was not at home. I was thinking about my out of place sets for the next day, which is. I guess this is a better answer for the thing that you're thinking about before when you're asking if there's one specific thing. Out of place sets. Now that I bring that up, unpack this trauma.

[Host]

What is an out of place set?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Out of place. Out of place set. So one of the things about the tasting menu is that everyone got something. No ingredient was repeated once during the menu. So when you're having nine plus courses, not including all the extra snacks and menardises, no one ingredient is going to be repeated. So if there's corn on the salad, you cannot have corn on the steak set. So we would never just replace one ingredient with another on any plate. If someone said, actually, I don't like corn, that person needed to have a whole new dish to put out just for that one person. Or maybe you have a few of those in your back pocket for someone, and suddenly it becomes this game of your kind of jockeying for position with the fish guy who's like, oh, no, I have leaks on my out of place that you can't have leaks on your out of playset.

[Host]

Oh, man.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And it would come to you and say, okay, this person's spending $500 here just for food. And, you know, what's your out of place set? They can't have that. I said, chef, I'm going to do this. And they said, no, you're not. What else are you going to do? I don't know. I don't know. I have nothing. And then you're. It's on. You're in the crosshairs, and. And you need to have a dish that's good enough in the moment to be able to pull out as a line cook.

[Host]

Right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Which was, like, very, very challenging.

[Host]

I mean, how did that make you feel?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Panicked all the time.

[Host]

Yeah, Well, I mean, I'm listening to that too. And from what I've learned about, like, just the economics of a restaurant, like, that's just not good. Like, restaurant economics mix either in terms of, like, if you're trying to. If you're not serving the top 1% of the 1%. You don't have a huge budget for cost goods like any. Like you can literally get your hands on anything you want. Your walk ins huge. Like you probably have all these things to choose from, right? Most restaurants can't do that. They have like. That's why Mexican restaurants make a ton of money. Because it's the same 10 ingredients or 5 ingredients 20 different ways. Like it's efficient, you know, like it's, it's, that's profitable, you know.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So I would spend all my time like thinking about out of place sets. What am I going to do? I could do the Brussels sprouts. Oh no, this. Brussels sprouts on fish. And I just sit there staring at the ceiling, going crazy.

[Host]

So you quit.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So we quit. I gave, I gave my notice. I gave my two weeks notice. And the chef's cuisine kind of scowled at me and said, you haven't even been here for a year. And I knew he was going to say that. I said, yes, I know, I'm very sorry. He says, if you haven't been here a year, you're dead to me. Throw in a few choice words with it as well, and I said, okay. And he said, I'm going to give you like another night to think about this, basically. So like really make sure this is what you want to do. Which I was like, it rubbed me the wrong way. So I came in the next day. I didn't want to. No call, no show. I came in the next day, I shook his hand and say, I'm done. And I walked out.

[Host]

Oh man.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And I knew there was, there was another. We happened to be like overstaffed that day, which never happens. And it almost felt like this sign from the universe that like, if you're gonna do this, like this is the day to do it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So, yeah, like I knew that they were gonna be fine on staff. And I was just. For him to have that response to me, just be like, if you haven't been here, you're fucking dead to me. I'd be like, okay, then you too. I'm out. So that's how I left.

[Host]

So that was 2014 or 15.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

That was 2015. 2015, yeah.

[Host]

And then you come back to New Hampshire?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, I went to, we went right to Portland. I, I took a job at Aldea, which was George Mendez's restaurant. I don't even know if it's still there. I think he's in Boston now. But a friend of mine had been working there, sort of a part time thing, was doing like Expo, food, running, just something until we were ready to move to Maine. Because Victoria was actually at Lincoln this whole time. We'd worked together at Lincoln for a while. She was working under Richard Capizzi, phenomenal late pastry chef. He passed away a couple years ago, and so she was finishing her time with him. And then we moved up to Maine and I started at Hugo's. Okay, so doing front of house.

[Host]

So you weren't at that. The first restaurant, Eldea? Not long.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, it was only three months. It was always meant to be, like, a temporary thing I had from there.

[Host]

Yeah. So why Portland, Maine?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Well, there was still this idea in my head of that meal that I'd had at Central Provisions, of this fantastic food, great food scene in the city without all that intensity and that pressure. And I thought, I love being by the ocean. I am a little closer to home. It's something a little bit smaller that I can get my teeth into. New York is so huge. It never could Never, like, never felt like mine. You know, I always felt like a tourist in the place I lived.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So.

[Host]

So you were at. You came to Portland, Portland, 2015. You're at Hugo's for how long I was at Hugo's.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think almost three years. I think it was almost three years. Like two and a half years.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Hugo's.

[Host]

I mean, I had Arlen Smith on the show twice, actually. Really enjoy speaking with Arlen. What was this experience like relative to what you were used to?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It was like a breath of fresh air. They actually had to get me to calm down a little bit because I was still bringing that, like, intensity. I. I got. I got pulled aside by the Someone who became their HR director and is actually one of the first contacts I made in Maine. She's actually still a very good friend of mine. She and her husband, Caitlin and Graham Miller. And I realized, like, halfway through the conversation, it was like, oh, I'm like, I'm kind of getting yelled at right now really nicely. It's just kind of like maybe tone it down a little bit because you're throwing things at people and all these things that I had.

[Host]

What'd you get hired as?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

As expediter. Kitchen expediter. Yeah. So I was kind of the air traffic control where tickets come in. I call it out to the kitchen, send it out. It felt like a good. Yeah, they felt like it was a good gap to bridge from my back house experience to front of house, which I, you know, I kind of said, I'm done with cooking. I'm burnt Out. Never again. Here we are now. But it made sense at the time. I actually really enjoy expediting. I enjoyed that job. And the, the Big Tree hospitality group was. I think it was a really good place to get into after because particularly I guess for our land, it's all about the hospitality. It's all about the guests. And that felt, that felt right.

[Host]

Is this worth. You started to realize what you love in the industry?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, I think, you know, I got to be able to connect with people. It's a completely open kitchen at Hugo's. It was a little bit, I appreciated so much that it was a bit of a change of pace because I needed to take my foot off the gas for sure because I just burned myself out. It's really what I did. So it's a little slower in this, the winter season for sure up here, but even in the summer it just, it didn't have that level of focus and intensity and spotlight the way every day is a Super bowl like it, like it is at per se.

[Host]

Right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So it was really good for me too I think be in that kind of environment. Yeah. Yeah. Still doing great food but without that, you know.

[Host]

So finding balance was one way you grew. How else did you grow? Hmm.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think, I think it's really just taking time to gain perspective I think was really big for me. Like I said with just foot on the gas, I didn't even realize how much I wasn't taking care of myself and my own mental health. And I was so fixated and focused on the idea of perfection and this goal and if I let myself down that I'd be a failure and, and I think taking that time to gain perspective is something I still make sure I take time to do.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Because I can lose the plot so easily when I easily fixate on stuff.

[Host]

And I think yeah, 30 in your 30s is a good time to open a restaurant, you know, like. Because if you're making it a goal, I mean if you do a two year program 18 to 20. Right. You, there's a lot of two year culinary programs. You can get the door open for you by going through those programs and doing the networking. And you give yourself one year at different types of restaurants, not even like all like full service, but like different business models. Go spend a couple years at a franchise, you know, and like learn the other side of the business, like the systems and processes and volume, you know, and like just drink from a fire hose and, and try to get as much perspective as possible. And you will learn so much about Yourself in that process of getting that perspective. It's invaluable. Huge. Yeah. So when you came to Portland, was the goal to open a restaurant in Portland? Was that the kind of the end game for you?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

You know, I came. I don't think I had a specific goal. I think I needed to find myself a little bit. I think I needed to kind of re tap into why I got into this industry in this first place. And I did. I was able to do that because I totally had lost the plot. So I think within a year, I kind of had that notion pop up again that I almost had, like, unfinished business, that I needed to try this again with a new perspective.

[Host]

So did you end up getting back into the kitchen at Hugo's or even tied or.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I didn't know I was the expediter. And then I kind of became floor manager and then eventually I became the general manager there. So I was a little bit more involved with the kind of administrative stuff. And also.

[Host]

Were you looking for that general manager role?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think part of me was. I kind of always sort of gravitate to just wanting to do more. And I think, like, that's kind of eventually becomes one of the next steps or the last steps in a restaurant in the hierarchy. So I think it's kind of a natural progression. But I think. I think it's been about a year and a half or two years that I was in the front house before they made me the general manager.

[Host]

What was that transition to general manager like for you?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It was pretty seamless, pretty natural. I almost feel like, how did they.

[Host]

Set you up for it?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I had kind of like a running start. You know, I had Caitlin, who'd become the HR director, was still there and I could still talk to her. She had been the general manager before me. Arlen was there all the time, Andrew, Mike, all those guys were there all the time. So the support system, the structure was kind of already in place. So it was really just a matter of executing their vision. It was a vision I agreed with. So it was, you know, it's very easy, I guess, in that regard to do. Yeah, because I believed in what we were doing.

[Host]

What work were you doing now that.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

You never did before now here at this. In this role in Hugo's?

[Host]

Yeah, as general manager?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think a little bit more just of the administrative stuff. Scheduling, ordering, you know. Yeah. Like the bookkeeping, doing data entry and reporting to accounting and stuff like that. So it's just more big picture stuff.

[Host]

Was this the first time you ever were open to the economics.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yes. And it was the first time owners had been open with me about it, which I really appreciated because everywhere else I had been, it was very closed. Closed kimono.

[Host]

And this is what, 2018?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, yeah, 2019.

[Host]

Kind of crazy to think.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

I think this is changing in the industry right now. I think open book management is becoming more common. Much more common. This idea of, you know, sharing KPIs with the team from, you know, general manager down to server, you know, like this is what we're doing for numbers. And I, I think when you, when people understand the game of business, they are able to see their job and their role in their job different. They know the impact they have on the bottom line. It all makes sense. It all comes together suddenly.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It doesn't feel like, why am I doing this?

[Host]

It's right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

There's a direct reason or correlation to something.

[Host]

So was there any struggle with, with that transition to the numbers or have you always kind of been good with this sort of thing? I don't.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Not that I specifically recall. Yeah. Sort of a learning curve with anything. But it wasn't particularly daunting or challenging. Yeah. But it was kind of. In that time I was starting to get the itch to cook again. I was going home and I was reading cookbooks at night and I was cooking elaborate meals at home and really just kind of felt that I needed to cook again and had that idea at Central in particular, the meal that made me kind of move to Portland in the first place, which is such a trip. Because they're business partners now.

[Host]

Right. That is crazy. Why were you trying to get a job at Central Provision when you came to Portland?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No. Didn't even apply.

[Host]

Really?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

Why not?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Because I didn't want to cook. Yeah. So burnt out. And I was like, no, I'm not gonna. Hugo's was hiring for an expo and I was like, well, that's kind of the perfect blend of like trying to transition from the back house in the front house. I already know how the system works.

[Host]

Great organization, well regarded.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

So when were you starting to think, I need to move out of Big Tree Hospitality? Hugo's eventide in Honey Pot.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

The itch to cook, I think was just there too much. And I always really liked the food that they were doing at Central. I always really admired what they were putting out and it just excited me. And I knew they were doing. It was a different environment than the tasting menu, which Hugo's was tasting menu kind of only. And I been doing the tasting menu game in New York. And I. I liked the idea of doing something a little more eclectic, more small plates, more dynamic. So then I did a trail at Central, and I really liked it. I liked the way it felt. It just. I don't know. Sometimes you call it a trail, a trial, A trail.

[Host]

Trail. How's that different than a stage?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It's not. Not really. I think stage is shorthand for the. The French word stagiere. I guess stagiers kind of have the connotation of being a longer residency. Maybe it's a week or a month or something like that, but they're pretty interchangeably used, I would say.

[Host]

Okay, so any other parts of the story that are worth coming up before getting on board with Central provision?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, no. I mean, Victoria and I, we're still together, and we. We ended up getting married in our backyard while I was working Hugos. And we had Graham, who was actually the chef de cuisine at Eventide. Graham Miller, Caitlin's husband, was a chef at Eventide at the time, and they catered the wedding in our backyard. It's the best food you've ever had at a wedding.

[Host]

That's the way it should be done.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It's pretty cool.

[Host]

Personally, I think you did it right. So, okay, so we're married at this.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Point, and, yeah, I'm moving to Central.

[Host]

So what was I thinking? Victoria is a big part of the story, right? She's your business partner today. Land partner today. What was she doing during all this? Was she in construction during this time?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So she had done construction all through high school and even actually a year into us working in New York, I was going in, taking the train down to Lincoln, and she was going to work on jobs in Greenwich, Connecticut.

[Host]

And you met her in college at CIA.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

At CIA. At the Apple Pie Cafe. She was a student while I was kind of the additional hands that they.

[Host]

Was she studying culinary?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

She was studying baking and pastry.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

So she didn't take that path until later.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, a little bit later. Yeah. So.

[Host]

She.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I don't know. Yeah, I think it was kind of always her goal. I mean, I guess she could tell you specifically at the time if it was her goal, but the money in construction is pretty good. You know, I think that probably had something to do with it. And then there's this opportunity for a pastry position at Lincoln with Richard Capizzi, who is really outstanding. Outstanding pastry chef. And so she kind of decided to jump in at that time.

[Host]

When she came into Maine with you, when you came here together, what was she doing when she got here, she.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Took the role of the pastry chef at the Regency Hotel.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yep.

[Host]

And how long was she there?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think it might have been just a bit less than a year.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Wasn't really what she was looking for. Going from, you know, they were they at Lincoln, they had contracts with the Brooklyn Botanical Garden doing stunning, you know, five foot tall wedding cakes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Like they'll just blow you away. And all the desserts are the Metropolitan Opera and it's also Richard Capizzi. So it's the standard is. It's perfect. It's perfection. He's unbelievable craftsman.

[Host]

So I know that she ended up being the general manager at Tipo.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yep. So she went to. She managed a. Actually she took a pastry chef job. Sort of a lateral move at first from the Regency to a place in Cape Elizabeth called Sea Salt as a gourmet market and sort of cafe. And she became pretty quickly the general manager there without training and whipped the place into shape. She's just one of those people that is really naturally good at like everything she does. Sometimes it can be frustrating. Yeah. But I admire and so much and I'm very proud of her.

[Host]

It's a good business partner right there. She's life partner too.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

She's the best. She's the best.

[Host]

So I guess you joined Central Provision. Why leave Hugo's? What was going on? So you were. There was no opportunity for you in the kitchen at Hugo's?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think there may have been, but they already had a chef de cuisine. They already had a sous chef. So to me, the upward mobility didn't seem to be there and I felt like if I was going to get back into cooking, it was to. It was going to be to manage a kitchen. Was going to be my goal.

[Host]

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[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It would have been, I think, July of 2018, I think.

[Host]

Okay. And you were with them. I mean, technically still partners with them today. Right. So six years working with them.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Six years, yeah.

[Host]

How did you grow during this time when you joined them, were you starting to get closer to this idea of I want to open my own place? Because you said that was a goal for sure.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think so, yeah. I think I did my best cooking at Central because I was cooking again, I think with the goal of just make great food, make myself proud, use good technique. And I didn't have that fear there that I did when I was at Per Se of the fear of failure wasn't really there. I just wanted to cook because I really can't shake the fact that I love cooking and I cooked really well as a result. I think, you know, not playing head games with myself was important. And also the staff that we had there was kind of this, like, golden.

[Host]

Age.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I don't know, it's like, you ever work on a team and you kind of have to tell the people that you're working with. This doesn't happen all the time. It's not usually this good where everyone respects each other. Front of house, back of house, we all have each other's backs. We're all working towards the same thing in unison. And it really felt like this kind of magic synergy. And that was. That kind of happened for a time, for a year plus when I was there at Central, what was it about.

[Host]

Central that made this culture possible? Dive into how they built that.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think. I think Chef Chris and Paige had kind of is a culmination of years of setting these standards in place, and this is what we're looking for. And it's having a team that you can coach and manage and inspire to achieve that. And I think we totally had that. It was a team full of team players that were really good.

[Host]

Get into the how of how they coached, how they inspired.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, we did. I mean, we had team meetings at least once a week, particularly in the kitchen. We. They gave us a lot of freedom and leeway to make decisions while also still enforcing the standard, I guess. And the Standards were really clear. I think that sometimes makes it easy. Even if the standard is high, as long as it's clear, it's a lot easier to hit rather than if it's kind of wishy washy.

[Host]

So how do they enforce standards? How would they go about enforcing standards?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think you ever heard the phrase kind of management by walking around? Yeah, Yeah. I think Chef Chris had just kind of through time, through example. He's the kind of guy that can walk into the kitchen and everyone stands up a little straighter and cleans up their boards. And I think his just presence of being there and being consistent, it really sets the tone. It sets the example for how everyone ought to be in the kitchen. And it wasn't through fear. I never saw him screaming at people, although I heard he used to be a little more intense in his younger days. But he's got his daughters now and I think he's realized he doesn't have to do that anymore. And people, I think, respond better to a little more level headed. You can be serious, it can be professional, but it doesn't have to be that old school level of leading by fear how it used to be. For a long time.

[Host]

Yeah. You also taught, I mean, didn't use these words, but like freedom to kind of create and do your own thing. I wrote down long leash, you know. Why do you think that's important to have this space?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Well, you're giving people who are already naturally ambitious autonomy. And I think people who are naturally ambitious are looking to make decisions and they, they feel gratified and rewarded from the ability to make their own decisions. So if you give people that flexibility, they don't feel so confined. They're not going to be looking for the door. They say, okay, I have the freedom to play in this sandbox under these rules, under this standard, and then they can execute. So if you have a high standard.

[Host]

Yeah, if you have a high standard for good people, let them be good people. Give them that space to, to blossom into their potential, you know, And I think you benefit as the owner when you have that level of perspective under. Like what? Like why, why not open yourself up to that voice, that talent, that, that passion and be better together?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right. I, you know, one thing we found at finest kind is it's such a small team. I find myself taking on a lot. But I think if you have enough people with you, in the case of Central, it's a fairly large team. You can delegate and trust in people as long as the standard is clear and you hold people to the standard, which they've always done. Chris and Paige have always done very well and very respectfully and professionally. And I think it's probably easier on the chef owner for them to not have to do everything themselves. Trusting people.

[Host]

What was the weekly meeting like? You said you would meet weekly. What would you cover?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

We'd cover new dishes. We'd want to do what's coming into season, general housekeeping. What do we have a lot of in the walk in that we want to make into a special? How is this new person doing on the station? How is, you know, what are the pressure points? What are you, you know? Yeah. And we.

[Host]

Everybody was all hands on deck for.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

We'd usually have a full team, front of house and back of house about once a month. Front house would always have their own meetings. Back house would meet once a week. It was usually about an hour and a half. And, yeah, it was great. Like, mutual respect among all the managers, and I think that was kind of the big thing. His chef de cuisine at the time was Eddie Moreau, and I think he. I just think he's a great leader as well. Kind of followed in Chef Chris's example of leading by example and being respectful.

[Host]

Were KPIs discussed?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Not really.

[Host]

Okay. How did you grow the most during this time?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Hmm. Well, just through, you know, time and experience, I think, is there's really no beating it. I think we face a bunch of different problems every day as managers that you kind of find what works and what doesn't. So I think definitely having that experience was good. You find the way to manage people, the way not to manage people. And also I got to cook, like, actually just cook with a team that I loved cooking with and bouncing ideas off of. So I think it was great for my own perspective of the industry and helped me. Helped remind me why I wanted to. To do it.

[Host]

So 2014. Sorry, 2024, September, you opened your restaurant. The goal was for summer of 2024.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

When did the conversation of we doing this, like, when did that start to happen?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It's kind of started between Victoria and I because Victoria was now at Tipo. She'd moved on from Cape Elizabeth, and now she's. Excuse me. At this point, she's in.

[Host]

Tipo is one of the three restaurants under the Hugo's. Or would. That would have been two, because this is the third.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Tipo is central. Central and Tipo. So finest kinds. The third. So I said Hugo's. Oh, on my own.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Gotcha. Sorry. So, yeah, so she was at Tipo she started doing the wine program for both. Paige helped, you know, Victoria with her sommelier certification. Victoria's got a great palette. It's better than mine. It's. Again, she's naturally good at everything, and so she really. And she's also very meticulous, very organized. So she's at Tipo. And we both kind of realized we had the skill set. We felt like we had. Victoria and I had the skill set to be able to do this on our own. And I feel like, you know, to come this far in the industry to completely work, work, work through our twenties, I knew for me, it was always going to be something that I would wonder about if I didn't try to open my own restaurant.

[Host]

Yeah. So when did the conversation start?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So the conversation, I think. Well, to tell you the truth. So I had. I had left Central at the end of 2020. I was gone for a couple of years. I had somebody reach out to me about opening a brewery in Portland, and I wanted the experience of opening a restaurant. So the idea, I guess, was always there. I was there for two years. It felt a bit as part of a larger corporate company, and it just really didn't. It never really felt right. So Chef Chris had reached back out again at that point and asked if I wanted to come back, and I said I did, but I want to open my own restaurant. So I will come back and work with you. I miss you guys a lot, but it's going to be under the notion that I want to have my own place. And Chris and Paige had started talking to us about maybe taking partnership in Central and Tipo, and that was obviously very, very enticing because we. We have loved working for them. There's a reason I came back to work for them, love the company, and, you know, our values align. But I also knew that Central and Tipo are always going to. Even if we had partnership, it was always going to be their restaurant. And that. I don't. That wasn't enough. It wasn't enough for me, to tell you the truth. I needed to have my own.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And we had to do it with Victoria, too, because she fills in all the gaps of my shortcomings, I guess, in terms of being able to manage the books. And she's a level head when I'm a little bit kind of all over the place. And also, we would never see each other. True, too. So we wanted to be able to see each other. We wanted to be able to work towards something together. We knew we had worked together and could Work together from our time at Lincoln.

[Host]

So it started as you know, you came back again, you set your intention. You said, this is what I want. This is what I'm working towards. At that time, you didn't say, I want to be a partner in your restaurant. You said, I'm working towards opening my own restaurant, so I'll come back and work with you, but know that I'm actively looking to do my own thing.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right.

[Host]

They responded in, well, why don't you do something with us? You can have equity in one of our businesses.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And you said no in Central Depot. Right. Which was very, very difficult. We, we struggled on that for weeks.

[Host]

Yeah. So at first did you.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Did.

[Host]

Were you like, yeah, let's do that. And then the more you chewed on it, the more you realize you wanted your own baby.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we had. I don't know what level of seriousness we had. Started looking, I guess in 20. We had maybe looked at some spaces, walked through some spaces. And one important thing for us is that we wanted to own whatever restaurant we went into. We wanted to own the real estate. We see so many people, had seen so many people taking on enormous loans, building out spaces, and then they don't own them. And if you're not cash flow positive, then at the end, I guess what do you have? You don't have necessarily iPad, you have. The chef is often the identity of a restaurant. If the chef's not there, you know how many times as a chef left a restaurant and the restaurant's just not the same.

[Host]

Right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So it's, it's such a. We wanted to have some kind of equity, I guess, and unless we were kind of going for a cash flow positive franchise sort of model, it was important for us to have the real estate, which narrowed the available restaurants to us for sure.

[Host]

So you, you purchased this building or this, this. The whole building or this unit?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

This building.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I mean, it is, it's a one unit.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Single unit. But. So he looked at a couple different places. There's a place in Gorham we looked at, but it didn't work to meet the SBA standards for getting a loan. Do you know the SBA standards? Well, in particular for the SBA 504 program, the restaurant or the, the, the business that they're financing, if they're going to help you with the real estate, has to be 51% of the square footage.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Of that building.

[Host]

I didn't know that. I know you need at least a 680. You need to be in Business for a certain amount of time, too, don't you?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Not for the 504. It can be the plant or the building or the restaurant can be considered.

[Host]

You know, you can't have any other debt with the government or the Small Business Administration, I think.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, right. Yep. Other. You can't have other loans out with them.

[Host]

And we can't have a criminal record.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

We don't have a criminal record. Try to keep my hands clean. Yeah.

[Host]

I think also, I mean, the benefits of having partners in Paige and Chris is that they have that track record, too. So now they have established relationships with the banks. So you can kind of use that to like, you know, like, would you have gotten that loan, do you think, if. If you didn't have them as partners for this building?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think it made us a lot more attractive to those lending institutions. I think they were pretty. I don't say, like, iffy or like, on the fence about loaning to us. I got that. There's almost a sense of hesitancy. When we were going through the process, and as soon as we had. Because we had gone fairly far into the process, we actually let Chris and Paige know that we are returning down the partnership and we're under contract for the. This building. But as soon as people, the. The bank, for example, knew that they were part of it, it suddenly felt like, oh, okay, we're good. Let's go ahead.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Just having them on board, well, it's that relationship totally.

[Host]

Right there. There's something there for sure. And, you know, to give Paige and Chris credit, too, I think a lot like, I think what you did is the way you grow and scale a business. You. You attract onto yourself tal talent. Right. You become successful, you create opportunity for others.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

You.

[Host]

You know that if you don't provide more opportunity to those others, those ambitious, talented people, they're going to go on and find it without you, with or without you. Right, right. They. They made you an offer. You had a different plan. Right. And I think when. When restaurant owners think of giving, finding a 50. 50 partner or whatever it is that you guys landed on, it's like, I'm giving up 50 of that business. Business. But you're gaining 50 of a business you otherwise wouldn't have bandwidth for. You know, like, they have you. You. They have your values. Right? Yeah, they. You. You have their systems and processes and operational.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. So much what we do is. Is here is the same as we do it literally groomed you. Yeah.

[Host]

You know, like, who else is a better partner?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I know.

[Host]

You know And I don't think you can to your point. I think you need skin in the game. You need that identity, that sense of ownership to show up the way you need to show up to be successful. You can't hire. So I'm listening to this book right now, Main Street Millionaire by Cody Sanchez, and she talks about, like, how there's all these, like, boomers about to retire, and there's these, like, Main street businesses all over the place that are like, that the next generation doesn't want to take over. And it's basically about how to go in and to take over a business basically with no money down. You know, she kind of coaches you through that. And a big part of what she says, she also says, never buy a restaurant.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

The track record. And across the board is not great, right?

[Host]

Yeah. But there's some really great advice in that book on how to set up those deals. And, you know, she recommends going into a situation where if you have a restaurant that's. Or a business, she says, no restaurants, a business that's profitable, you just split the profit until you pay off the. The, you know, the value of the business. Right, but this is a different scenario. I mean, I don't know how privy you are to get into the details of your agree. Your arrangement. But, like, what advice do you have? Like. Like, this is where I think we don't talk enough, is like, how do you get into those partnerships? And how do you structure those partnerships in a way that are. Win, win.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. Well, for us, Chris and Paige had made us, you know, the offer of partnership and basically the money that they had earmarked or the distribution that was going to be due to us upon taking that partnership was basically repurposed into what if we invested in you guys? Because this is going to take a lot of money. And they were right. We needed them. Honestly, the restaurant, this restaurant would not be what it was without their. Their mentorship and that. That additional capital to get it started.

[Host]

So they're strictly financial partners?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, I wouldn't say it's strictly financial. I mean, they were here for our first week or two while we were opening, helping us getting our. Our POS and our systems up in place. Chef Chris helped me organize the kitchen. I still bounce ideas off of them all the time. We still talk about food, about cooking, about what's working, what doesn't. Chef, I'm running into this problem. How did you solve that problem when you were in my position? And it's a really kind of invaluable resource. So I Think we were. So we're so much better off for having taken their. Their partnership.

[Host]

Got it. Yeah. So, I mean, this is typically where I ask, how'd you get the money? Right. Because that's a big challenge for a lot of people. And you got the money.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So we had basically our own. Our own money that we brought into it that we saved and saved. Like I said, we kind of worked through our 20s.

[Host]

Backyard wedding.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Backyard wedding.

[Host]

Don't spend stupid money on a wedding if you want to open a restaurant.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, we had. We. We made money on our wedding, actually, which is crazy. We.

[Host]

Is that because you worked for Hugo's?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Oh, yeah. We earned more and we did, like, some, like, work in kind. Like we, you know, traded labor for labor kind of sort of thing. But yeah, it's. I think we just kind of always prioritize saving, which is. Which is big. If you're going to do something like this, you do have to have skin in the game. The bank is not going to give you money unless you're putting some money in your.

[Host]

What, advice you have for saving. Were you putting aside 10% of every dollar you're earning or something like that?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I. In particular. No, I think. I think we were just really. There was no percentage in mind. We're just really disciplined about it.

[Host]

We don't need.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And we invested. True. Frankly, I think we got a little bit lucky. Although it's one of those things where, like, the more good decisions you make, the better luck you have kind of thing. Right.

[Host]

How do we start this episode? What was the quote?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

The moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. Right. We had bought a house, small house in Scarborough, and then we had no idea what the housing market was going to do, but it did. And basically we did a. We refinanced that house and took out a portion of it and used that as the down payment for the restaurant.

[Host]

Yeah. How much money did you come up? Like, what was the number you needed to hit to make this happen?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

For us, I mean, we. Of our own money, it's about. It's about a hundred thousand dollars. Okay.

[Host]

What was the total amount that you.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Needed to make it happen and including, like, the bank's contribution overall?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Probably looking a little under. It's like 650, 700.

[Host]

Still not that bad for you on the building.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Correct.

[Host]

So you own the building. You put 100,000 of your. Your own money in. So you had to come up with 550,000.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right. So, I mean, it's essentially a mortgage. So a lot of Places pay rent, and then they pay off whatever portion of their loan.

[Host]

You put your house on the line to back the loan?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, more or less. I mean, we. We're not upside down on it. You know, we have. It's equity that we. We have in it, so.

[Host]

But only one financial investor, I. E. It's us.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yep. And then we worked with. With Bangor is basically. Bangor Savings was phenomenal.

[Host]

Now, did Paige and Chris put their own money in or did they just go down the.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Okay, they did. Yeah. So. And so they used that money and. And bought their. Their percentage, I guess.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Of the business.

[Host]

I love that. Are you willing to talk about, like, how to structure an agreement like that in terms of, like, how to pay it back? Are you. Are your goals to pay them off eventually and own it outright, or do you want to keep them as partners? This is where it gets weird.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. No, I think. I think this is the kind of thing where it's like, there's no substitute for time. There's no substitute for developing that relationship. I. You know, it's easy to say, oh, well, you know, somebody gave you money. But it's like. But also, these are people that you find, people that you trust, that you work with really well. And I put in years of your professional life with and is this it for you, this restaurant?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Oh, geez. If you asked me that, like, five months ago, I would have said, like, yeah. But we're starting to find a rhythm. My. Our real focus right now is making this place the best place it can be.

[Host]

Right. I think where I was going with that is when you have partners, now you have successful business partners.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right. So.

[Host]

And what can the four of you do?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, coming together and finding lanes, you know? What were you going to say?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Victoria is still technically an employee of theirs as well as partners. She still does their. Their wine program at Central Provisions and at Depot. And I think. I don't necessarily think it's our goal to buy them out, at least not right now. I like having them with us. You know, I can. I can call them anytime with. With questions or if I need mentorship or support, I still call. I still call Chef Chris. Chef. And I'm never gonna not call him Chef.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we're partners now. I'm not gonna call him Chris. I can't. It's weird. So I really like having them on our. On our team, and I think we'll probably all go farther together, you know, so. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, I think I Think that's the only way to scale a business today. I think the days of Seoul restaurateur or sole proprietor restaurateur, because of what you have to be good at today to be the best. It's. It's more competitive than ever before. It's more. I think you have to do more to. To. To be relevant than ever before in terms of marketing. And, you know, like, restaurants are like real businesses today. You know, HR all these things. Like you, the world is changing, and restaurants are being forced to evolve with the standards of society.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, and I think to. To really be the best, you need people who are strong where you're weak, and to attract onto yourself the best. I. E. The Toms and Victorias, they want steak, they want skin in the game, they want ownership. So the only way to get the best talent today, and people are smarter. That's the other thing. Like, people are educated. They know the only way you build wealth is with assets. So like you, the only way to go ahead, especially in the restaurant industry, because it's so hard. We weed people out in this industry, you know, like to show up the way you need to show up to be the best in this industry, you have to be in it. You have to have skin in the game. That's the only way, in my opinion, you get the best.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I. I totally agree. I think, you know, aligning your. Your not just values, but the. The rewards so you're both aligned in your interests, I guess, is. Is huge. I think that's kind of maybe the only way to do it long term.

[Host]

Right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Especially when you have people who are ambitious, you know?

[Host]

Right. So what were the biggest challenges for you? So 2023, you found the space.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, we. We did a walk through 2023. They wanted too much money for it. Visitor 2023, we did a walkthrough of the space. It was too expensive. We offered something lower. They balked at us. We said, okay, never mind. We hadn't heard from. We walked away thinking that was it. And then a few months later, almost towards the end of 2023, near Thanksgiving time, they're having a tough time selling it, and he really wanted to sell it. They're starting to get more motivated to move it. So they reached back out to us and said, okay, actually we would. If you're still interested, we would take that offer. And so. So that's when we kind of started the process in earnest. We said, okay, so let's. Let's talk to the bank. Let's talk to, to Bangor. Let's get connected with the Southern Maine Finance Authority, who's kind of your liaison with the sba and kind of started the process while we were still at that point thinking we were going to do partnership with Chris and Paige. But it just suddenly there was here it was this building and this opportunity and like couldn't shake it. I was like, we gotta see this through, we gotta do it.

[Host]

And then you told Chris and Paige what your intentions were and they came in on it.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I don't know if you've ever turned down like free money before, but it's like the worst feeling in the world to be like, oh, we're gonna say no to your money and we're gonna risk everything. But they countered you and then they countered us, which is like crazy. Yeah. And it was really, really helpful to have them on board. And the process for getting the building was anything but easy. Early on. I remember Terry Trickey was one of the VPs of lending at Bangor that we worked with and she is really, really excellent at her job. I asked her what would be some of like, worst case scenario in this process. She goes, oh, well, I don't know. I think I've probably seen one place that was. Someone was under contract for a place that had used to be, had once been a laundromat and, or a gas station because the environmental impacts. And then you have to go through all this tape. But that's kind of worst case scenario. Oh, haha, crazy. A week later there's a certain tone in her email. Hey, we need to do a video call. So building next door used to be a laundromat.

[Host]

Oh man.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And there are gas tanks right up front. And you're going through a federally subsidized loan program in the sba. Here comes the red tape, here comes the environmental surveys. Here comes the third party environmental professionals and all the extra paperwork that goes with that. That delayed us a couple of months.

[Host]

These are questions you asked the previous owner. Were there ever laundromats or gas stations?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And then they just say unknown. You gotta get away from that.

[Host]

But those are the things you just don't know. So I mean, to be clear, the reason why those are issues is because of the environmental threats with the chemicals associated mats and gas stations.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

100% totally valid, totally important. But it definitely threw a wrench in the plans for sure. And give us some more money. It cost more. It's like suddenly there's these things that we hadn't anticipated. I didn't even know that was a thing you don't know until you know.

[Host]

There's so much you don't know. That's right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

That's right.

[Host]

And that's kind of the point of this podcast, is to share the stories and to get people to say the unknowns. You know, you can. We can live vicariously through hundreds of people who've gone through it to share that perspective and the things you just don't think about. You get blinded by the dream, the vision, and you'll say yes to anything, and you don't know what questions to ask. Right, right. So was it always going to be so you guys today? Breakfast, lunch, breakfast. I think you have nine items on your breakfast menu. You have eight items on your lunch menu. You have four sides and a handful of pastries.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. Probably a dozen or so different pastries. The menu is, I think, a little bit larger than we had initially anticipated.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

The pastry program, in particular, we thought was just going to be kind of an. Also ran, like, just a few things up there. And then we found that antique case up there, and it's like six feet long and. And filled it with pastries. And it's. People love it. It's like the first thing people see, and people gravitate towards it.

[Host]

I was looking at the website and I was like, God, they're closed.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Actually, I set aside some. Some savory, the French onion.

[Host]

I mean, definitely I will be coming back to our normal business hours for sure. This place looks phenomenal. I can tell you're definitely talented, but small menu. I was looking around earlier. Couching seats, about 25 to 30 seats.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty reasonable. It's 26 is kind of what it is on paper, but we can kind of squeeze in 28 people, have kids, and then we have 15 seats out on the deck.

[Host]

Now, are you. Do you have people come in here and, like, have coffee and sit and, like, do work, or are you trying to turn a couple of those.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

But I think we were worried about the coffee shop identity, which we did not want to be. That's why when you're looking for an outlet earlier and you're having trouble finding one, that's actually on purpose because we don't want people.

[Host]

I'm one of those people. But I'm also very, like, eyes up, like, oh, they need to see I'm out of here.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right. You know, it's.

[Host]

But most people don't think like that. It's just because I know, you know.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

We do get people that post up and do work And I'm never gonna tell people, hey, put that laptop away. But if that's how they want to enjoy the space, then I'm perfectly fine to let them do that. But most people kind of get the impression that they're here to eat, or maybe they'll have a pastry and a coffee and. And head out. But we haven't had too much of an issue with squatters, I guess.

[Host]

So one thing I want to talk about before we get into the last five months, like, what was the build out like?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So with Victoria's construction background, we kind of took on a lot of the work ourselves. We obviously had qualified electrician, qualified plumber do all that stuff. And we did pay a tiler for some. Some of the work to do. Some of the tiling looks really, really nice.

[Host]

Is that in the bathroom?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

As in the bathroom? Yeah. And then even in the foyer as well. But all the tiling, the. The subway tile that we did in the kitchen, all. I think it's like 1500 tiles we laid ourselves. All the, the paneling in here, the tables were the original tables to this restaurant that we took home. Cut down, refinished, stained, reassembled. Back here, banquettes.

[Host]

What was this restaurant before it was.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

A breakfast lunch spot.

[Host]

So was that always what you wanted to do, or is that just kind of what made sense?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It's what made sense for. It's what made sense for this space. You know, we didn't want to try to shoehorn one specific type of restaurant into a place that maybe it wasn't going to work. It was important for us to actually look at wherever we were going to be and sort of tailor the concept to that community, to that location. Sort of feel confident, I think, enough in our skill set that we can execute sort of whatever we wanted to do, but it just. It needed to make sense for the community or the town or the city that it was in.

[Host]

So any lessons around build out that you learned the hard way, aside from, like, make sure it wasn't a laundromat or gas station before?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, I would say having really clear plans from the get go, which is sort of difficult because until you get into the space, it's really difficult to make those. I'd never been a general contractor, so working with, you know, the electrician and with the plumber and kind of coordinating these guys, the. The coffee guy to do the coffee install takes coordinating with the plumber, takes coordinating with the electrician and takes coordinating with the counterfeiters. So that was not in my skill set. And There was a lot of on the job learning, and as far as the construction stuff went, it was just sort of following Victoria's instructions and example on how to do things. But I think we probably could have saved a little bit of money if. I guess I had that skill set. If we had maybe paid someone to do it, then probably would have paid more. In general, though, they would have been better equipped to make all those pieces of the puzzle fit together that I didn't really know. Got it.

[Host]

So you guys open. What was the original date you wanted to open? You want to be open by, like, July?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

When we started this process, when we first went under contract, we were like, oh, maybe like Mother's Day. We'll shoot for Mother's Day. Which is like, give me a break. That was not realistic at all because we also really hadn't gotten into the space and seen how much work Mother's.

[Host]

Day is in May. Sorry, Mom.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

April. Yeah. Early spring.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And Easter. Right. And that's. Nope. No. No chance. And then we thought, okay, Memorial Day. Nope. That quickly became not realistic. Then we thought July 4th. Nope, nope. Okay, how about just the end of July?

[Host]

Was it just scheduling contractors?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Well, it was. We were also still working at Central in Tipo at the time. So on our weekends, we were here. And in our time off, you know, the few hours that you get after work from those places, we were here. We got off to a little bit of a late start because we should have pulled permits faster than we did. That probably set us back a month right there, which is, you know, just like a hindsight thing.

[Host]

Like, oh, it's all the things you wish you knew. Make a checklist. So the next time. Yes, I need to start building that checklist. Maybe like a shared document with all my listeners. Like, what are the things? The checklist.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. And doing things in order, timeline wise, because the electrician can't be here until, you know, the demo of that wall happens. So that set us back, and there's a lot of sort of delays that, frankly, I think probably came from inexperience in doing this. And I think we're now much better suited if we had to do it again. I think we could do it. We could shave off a couple of months and do it for cheaper. And then the real icing on the cake that we had was we were feeling really confident to open mid. Early mid August. I think we had said August 11, felt pretty good about it. Started getting the team in place. And then first week we were in here in mid August, I noticed that the walk in wasn't holding temp.

[Host]

Ooh.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I was like, okay. And then I kind of realized some like imperfections in the wall and I pulled that back and I was like, I should have done this earlier. When we had done the initial walkthrough walk in work, they had just, huh.

[Host]

Mold imperfections in the wall.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

Oh my God.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So it's stick built. We knew that they had just replaced the compressor in the spring. We were in there, it was cold. Great walk in works. Didn't really think about it. Again, walk in works. Summertime. It's 90 degrees outside. Turn on the walk in and I'm in. The walk in. I'm like, it's cool in here, but it's not cold. And I put a thermometer in there and it was like constantly running. The evaporator was constantly running and it was 50 something degrees and my heart kind of sank. And we, we started pulling things back on the wall and it was mold, rot, ants. So it was like, okay, we have to pull all this out. We have to pull the evaporator down. They come out, they look at the evaporator and say, this evaporator is wicked old. You should get a new one. I said, that's going to be $10,000. We're already behind schedule and a little over budget. I don't think I want to do that. We're going to roll with it and run it as long as we can. We rebuilt it, put the evaporator back up. Evaporator starts failing.

[Host]

Oh man.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, There's a slow leak. So $1,000 to get it recharged. They patch the leak weekly. Two days later, there's another leak somewhere. Refill it, recharge it, patch it, leak as another thousand dollars and we're still not open.

[Host]

Could have just gotten a new.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

We should have done it from the get go. From the get.

[Host]

Like that's what happens. Yeah. And that's actually. I had Stephanie Robson on the show and she's a Cornell professor and she does restaurant design, planning and all this stuff. She did a three part series on like basically like restaurant back of house layout and like how to like build a kitchen in a way that makes sense. And at some point in that workshop she was talking about like, what do you buy used and what do you buy new? She's like, always buy refrigeration new because that's like tables, shelving, used.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yes.

[Host]

Refrigerators. Like you never know you like what the story was, but you guys were trying to do it it was kind of like, not necessarily turnkey, but I'm assuming when you bought this place, you were buying some of the.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

There was some equipment here, but it was in some rough shape. And I think, honestly, before we had Chris and Paige on board, we were just going to kind of run with the crappy equipment and just as long as we could. And having Chris and Paige on board was like, okay, I think now we can actually. We're not gonna. I don't have a $10,000 Garland range back there.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

You know what I mean? But we can at least afford to get something new that we know works.

[Host]

Right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Because everything in here was in pretty significant disrepair.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I don't know how they ran a restaurant before.

[Host]

Right. And if you're just starting.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. Like, and these are numbers that I'm not familiar with, writing checks for 10, 15.

[Host]

If you lose an entire walk in. You know, when you're just getting started and you're already under capitalized, you know, like, that could really.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

That walk in set us back two to three weeks and probably an extra $20,000.

[Host]

Did you lose product?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, I didn't have anything in there yet. Having Chris and Paige, I was also able. I had already ordered stuff. I was able to store it at Tipo Nice. And Central Nice. Which has been huge. And, you know, if we had just done it from the get go, like I said, like, having an overarching plan that. That would have been included in. Addressing that walk in would have been included in. We probably could have saved several visits of the recharge of patching holes on a system that was, you know, we're trying to save a sinking ship at that walk in.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

And that compressor, the real icing is that compressor that they bragged that they had just replaced in April was for a completely different refrigerant than was actually being used in it. So it burned out the compressor within less than a year. So that. Oh, yeah, it's ship shape up there. So we did a new compressor evaporator. We've rebuilt the stick built. Then you have to get electricians out.

[Host]

So now you're open September, you open after all this.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

What has the past five months been like for you in terms of like. I mean, first of all, I want to point out, you're operating in the black.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which is a testament. I think there's a reason why they say get one year of operating capital minimum when you open a restaurant. It's because it might take a year for you to build that clientele, to build up to get into the black. So I think that it's only going up from here.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I sure hope so. Yeah. We haven't even seen a summer yet.

[Host]

That's right.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

We're already finding constraints and limitations to the space is probably our biggest concern right now. We need a bigger mixer. We need, you know, it's a very small kitchen back there. We wanted everything to be very lean and small and to be operated with the smallest crew possible because labor is a real headache and issue in the industry right now.

[Host]

Why the menu small?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It is. Why the menu small. Yeah, we want to execute really well. I mean there's two full time, including myself in the kitchen and one part time guy doing prep and dishwashing. I'm starting to have him on the line. And then Victoria doing the pastry program for us.

[Host]

Okay, so do you mind getting into like some of the economics like you said your single digits 5%.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, I mean I think so. There was that. The walk in was a huge expense. We also had to replace a blower, the motor on the blower for our hot air system. That was about a little over $2,000. We had to install a sump pump in an emergency, in a rainstorm because the crawl space was flooding. There's another thousand dollars. I know we're going to need a new mixer. That's probably going to be including electrician to come out here. Probably $17,000.

[Host]

But you know, I think people get in trouble sometimes too at their restaurant because it's like, you know, I use the analogy when we're kids, we grow up in our this house. You know, our parents have this nice beautiful house and then we, we're grown ups. We're like, we want the nice beautiful house. Well, what about that shitty house when you were like 1 to 5 years old? Do you remember that shitty house that your parents lived in? Like you gotta buy, you gotta start.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Where you can start somewhere and, and put in the sweat equity.

[Host]

Exactly. Don't build your dream restaurant out of the gates. Like start where you can. And then the beautiful thing about this, and I'm not wishing ill on your, your, you know, your, you would call them not your neighbors, but they're actually your tenants. Right. If for whatever reason that they go out of business and you are have lines out the door every day, like knock out a wall, you know, so you can start small.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right.

[Host]

And let the cash flow determine your growth.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right.

[Host]

I think you could probably even give them like a notice if you had to, if you needed to take over that space because you own it. Like, hey, you got a year. We're going to take over that space. I don't want to put that out there with your tenants, maybe be listening to this, but, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you have the option.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah, Yeah. I think there's its own challenges with being such a small team. I think we wanted to keep it really lean, to almost make it failure proof or at least mitigate the risk as much as we could. But we've actually been pleasantly a bit busier than we anticipated.

[Host]

That's awesome.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

When we're doing your business plan and they say, okay, project a year, three years, five years of sales, it's sort of almost like grabbing numbers out of thin air. You make your best educated guess, but I'm not in the space. And we did not have historical financials to look at from this previous restaurant. We bought the building, we did not buy the business. So what we ended up finding is that we were actually fairly accurate in our projections, which I'm a little bit surprised by. And some of the costs that we had projected to be higher. For example, the rates on the loan itself have actually come down a couple percentage points. And one of the loans, it's sort of broken up into a few different loans. And one of them is almost half the rate we projected. 8%, 10%, and it's about 5%.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So some of those things have been better than we expected. Nothing has really been worse than we expected. We're busier than we projected for this time of year. We anticipated losing money this time of year, like most restaurants do.

[Host]

Yeah. So I'd love to come back in a year from now or maybe like, you know, October or November of next year to be like, where we at after that summer. Because for some context, we're in Saco, Maine.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yep.

[Host]

We're on the coast of Maine about 30 minutes south of Portland. 20 minutes.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It's about 20 minutes. Yeah.

[Host]

Huge. Like, like vacation land up here. You know, like in the summer, like, people come to Saco, 10 minutes from Old Orchard. Yeah.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Bitterford Pools, 10 minutes away. Une is 10 minutes away.

[Host]

Yeah. So, like, the fact that you're in the. In the the black during the slow season, I think is super hopeful. I'd love to know where you guys are at after this summer. That'd be really fun. I mean, you opened in September, so, like, that's when things are starting to slow down.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right.

[Host]

What are your prime costs?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Prime costs, we're keeping food cost, I guess total prime is probably high 60s 70% ish. Now we only have five months, I guess, under our belt, so it's fluctuated a little bit. We were shiny and new, and early December slowed down. That picked right back up again for the holidays. Food costs, which we try to keep just under 20%. Been able to do that. And labor is, to me, the. The biggest.

[Host]

40.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, it's closer to 50.

[Host]

Oh, wow.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. But it's a small space, and that includes ourselves. We are paying ourselves a salary, sort of like the way Paige and Chris have done.

[Host]

I love that.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Central and Tipos. It's an S Corp, so owners of the business can also operate as employees and receive, you know, a paycheck.

[Host]

So what's any other benefits to doing an S Corp in particular?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I don't know if I could. If I'm necessarily qualified to speak to them. I'm not sure. Yeah, it worked for us. That's what we.

[Host]

I think if you plan on scaling, there are certain tax benefits. I'm not an accountant or a cpa, so I don't like to speak to it because I don't want to be wrong. But, I mean, I think Paige spoke to Chris during the pandemic, how he was able to go on unemployment, and I think that's another. If there's a disaster or whatever, you know, But I think. So you are including your income.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yes.

[Host]

So not prime costs.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

That. I'm including our salaries, which I also know can be part of overhead. Right. You include that as a fixed cost. Right.

[Host]

So you're saying. Sorry, go ahead.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, that. Yeah, exactly. We're including our own salaries in that. So there's no additional. The only overhead is, you know, our utilities and our.

[Host]

So you're at 50% labor. But if you were to take 10% off of that and put that towards profit, you'd be doing like 15% profit right now. Right. If you. If you're operating like a lot of people do, where they basically treat profit like what's ever left over.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right. And I'm. I have no illusion that we are breaking even or a bit above breaking even right now, because we are two. We are 33% of the team. It's a really small team.

[Host]

Well, I think that's really important. So, like, your labor cost is 33. So if you're doing 50%, you're closer to about, you know, 15. You're. You and Paige are probably. What's. What's 33% of 50.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

33 of 50. 16 is. Yeah, 16. Half of 33.

[Host]

Yeah, 16. So you're doing so 6. You're doing about 20 profit if you're. If. If we hold ourselves operate like a lot of restaurants do, you know, and I think I 100% about paying yourself a wage like you are an operational expense. If you're working in that restaurant, if you're there every day, you are an employee of that restaurant and you pay yourself like an employee and the whole idea is to remove yourself eventually. Right?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yes.

[Host]

And then that. That salary shifts towards paying somebody to be there in your place.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Exactly.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. Anything we haven't discussed up to this point in terms of things you do. Right. Things that, you know, you learned the hard way, lessons you want to pay forward.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Well, I, I've really kind of started to really enjoy the. The mentorship and the teaching aspect of it. Granted, the team is very small, but we've been really selective in the people that we take on our ethos. Yeah. And what we're trying to do then name of the restaurant Finest kind. Which is kind of this old down east fishing term. It comes from like an old English like fine as kine, which is an old word for cattle. Like basically strong as an ox, good as it gets. How's the fishing day? Finest kind. Like good as it gets. And I also really liked that had the word finest from our fine dining background. And then kind because we have this. Yeah. The brand I think is huge today.

[Host]

Did you get help with the brand?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Did you go to something the logo work and some of. Some of that work? Yeah, we did.

[Host]

Same people as Hugo's by any chance?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

No, no, we didn't. That's. I think might and main does that great work. Yeah, they're out of our price range, but they. You get what you pay for with them. Don't get me wrong. Like I said, we bootstrapped a lot of it and I was a friend of ours who's a friend of a friend really who's a graphic designer. Does media. Brand.

[Host]

Brand. Yeah, I was gonna say you're. I mean in terms of brand and marketing. Only open for five months. 3592followers on Instagram. Instagram. I mean I feel like that's pretty good out of the gates.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Not bad, right? Yeah.

[Host]

Who covers most? Are you guys doing any marketing? Do you go out of your way to market or you just focus on like the four walls right now? It's.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It's sort of the four walls. I would love to be able to have a little. Be able to delegate, I guess some of the. The media marketing stuff out a Little bit. Just because it's not necessarily our area of expertise. But Victoria handles most of it and she does a very, very good job. But she also has a lot of.

[Host]

Damn it, she's good at that too.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I know. Yeah. Eventually we're gonna have to start delegating stuff to people who can specialize and focus on it as we scale.

[Host]

I did notice I look a little bit up your tech stack you are using. I wrote it down. Clover.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Use Clover. Yeah.

[Host]

Any other technology that you're excited about that you are willing to, you know, endorse.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I mean, I wish.

[Host]

How'd you land on Clover? Curious.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Some of the features that they have are just kind of built in with the base price. Like I said, we very much came into this with the mentality of bootstrapping it, doing it. Not necessarily just always going for the cheapest thing. For example, I'd use Toast for years at Hugo's and Toast is such a great platform. But some of those features that we were looking for in Toast were additional add ons which I think if we were a larger company, I think you can stomach the extra $300 a month. But you know, starting small, you know, we wanted to go with something that was a little bit more all encompassing. And we were also able to do Clover through Bangor Savings. They're sort of an affiliated third party, so we're able to negotiate better credit card interest rates, which did beat Toast and beat a lot of the other.

[Host]

What price did you get?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

It's. They typically tend to be under 3% all in. So. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. That is huge. I mean, I typically. You know, there's three. There are three. If. If you're asking me what POS company to go with, I mean, honestly, this is really what I feel like. If you're thinking your POS is going to be the thing that makes you successful.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. I review.

[Host]

I'm not saying buy a piece of Positive. I'm not saying buy a pos. Yeah. But like there are. If you. There are at least five POS systems out there that if you go with them, like you'll be fine. And the reason you fail isn't going to be because of the pos. Toast is the most recommended on the show. Spot on. I think is giving Toast a run for their money.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I've not used them.

[Host]

Those are also enterprise more. Like I would. I would recommend those for more full service, like larger operations. Right, right. If you're a cafe or a coffee shop, you can get by with a Square or a Clover.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yep.

[Host]

You know and you know, Square is the most recommended for like smaller operations. But I think, you know, Clover. I've never really heard horrible things about Clover.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So far so good. Yeah, it's a small investment in the equipment, the, the duo system that we have. So as a guest facing thing. So we don't have to take somebody's credit card because we have people who are handling pastries. We don't want basically someone taking money and credit cards from people and then also handling pastries. So everything's on their side of it. So it's a little more expensive for that setup. I think it was.

[Host]

What are the integrations?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Right now we just have online ordering, but we do. We think we're probably going to go with a third party delivery and Doordash or Grubhub. Doordash is the big one.

[Host]

You're going to treat that like a.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Marketing arm, I think so. I think our food lends itself pretty well to takeout. We do a fair amount of takeout anyway just from our website. So it, it makes sense as long as we can price it in a way that kind of factors in the, the, the margins that they take.

[Host]

Yeah, I'm looking at the time and I'm really enjoying the conversation, so. But I want to respect your time and get out of here. The time we agreed on. Before we say goodbye, a couple questions.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Sure.

[Host]

What is one thing about your business? A system, a process, a procedure, a value that makes you truly unstoppable?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I think we have weekly meetings with the whole team, something that we started a month or two ago. We found ourselves getting into a routine of kind of everyone just showing up for work and then leaving. And I think we were starting to lose that kind of overarching why we're here. So we've started implementing a weekly meeting where we go over kind of like we did it at Central where we started going over not just the technical housekeeping, but also what are some things outside of the space that were inspired by other hospitality trends or a book I read or a quote that someone had seen or an experience they had out in the community and having everybody share that. And I, I think we've started to kind of develop this culture of, of everybody here is here working towards the same thing. And I think that's like a number one for a team.

[Host]

Are you using EOS by any chance? Eos, the entrepreneurial operating system.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I'm not.

[Host]

Oh, man. Their format for a level 10 weekly meeting is fire. Cool. It's. It was introduced in the book Traction by Gino Wickman. And then the EOS series kind of spun off from there where they have. What the heck is eos? The EOS Life. And like, it's. I highly recommend. I mean, I'm not gonna tell you what to do.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

I'd love to check it out.

[Host]

Yeah. It's super powerful.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

So, yeah, having. Having everybody kind of Wayne at that time. We take time to eat. Maybe it's usually the end of the week, so pastries that won't last for the weekend. We sit and we have some pastries. That's the one time where we do like a shift drink. Sorry.

[Host]

The train. Does the train stop right there?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

The train station is right there. Yeah, I'm pretty.

[Host]

Taking the train up real soon down Easter right there.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Take it right to Boston. And it's been really great. And we kind of bring those lessons throughout the week. And then we have another meeting and, you know, a new. A new source of inspiration.

[Host]

Yeah, I love that.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

The reason why everybody on board.

[Host]

Yeah. The reason why I asked if it was us, because they. That's how they suggest you start a weekly meeting, is you say, what's one piece of personal good news and professional good news? So I was wondering if it was a spin off of that. That's what sparked my curiosity.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah. But it's kind of how we treat it.

[Host]

But I love the way you're doing it.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Yeah.

[Host]

So the mission statement is to change the world through inspiring, empowering and transforming the industry. We're going to do that by transforming one restaurant owner at a time. But how have you personally transformed. How are you a better man today versus the man you were when you got started? Just say the boy you were when.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

You got the boy. Boy from New Hampshire. I would say it's. It's perspective. It's the perspective that there is no substitute for. For time, for doing it, for putting in the hours, for learning, getting your hands into it, and always trying to remind yourself why you're doing it. Because if you lose the plot, you know you're going to lose the why. And then you're going to lose the drive.

[Host]

Yeah. This is the last question. It's a doozy. I get eye rolls. Get ready for it. If you got the news you'd be leaving this world tomorrow, all the memories of you, your work and your restaurants would be lost, Cataclysmic. With the exception of three pieces of wisdom you could leave behind for the good of humanity and your legacy. What would those three pieces of wisdom be?

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Three, I would say don't Be too cool to care. One. That's one. I would say we're here in this industry, it's really unique, and that we're here to serve people and make people happy, and everything we do in this building goes towards that.

[Host]

I love that. And number three. Three.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, it's not. It's not going to be, what's the point? What's the point? And there's always sacrifices along the way. You're not always going to enjoy it, but I guess knowing what's important to you, know what's important to you. Can I change my answer? Know what's important.

[Host]

This has been a lot of fun, man. I try to find all my guests. This is my North Star. This question right here. I know I said that was the last question. We're officially wrapping it up now. Who do you think I should get on the show? Who do you respect and admire? Somebody who is a wealth of knowledge is running their business as well. From what you know, they're profitable. Not that it's all about the money, but I think fiscal responsibility is something we should all aim for.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Does it have to be a restaurant owner? Going to be another chef?

[Host]

I do try to talk to owners. I'm not a chef. I'm not even an owner. But I really try to focus on the business.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Okay. Okay. Then I. I'm gonna throw a shout out to Betsy English. Okay. She owns Quanto Basta in Portland.

[Host]

Betsy English, look out. Yeah, I'm coming after you. I'd love to make it happen. And how can we connect with you if you want to come check out Finest Kind? Maybe we have questions for you. Maybe we want to come work for you.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Sure, sure. 17 Pepperell Square here in Saco. Sunny Saco. You can follow us on Instagram. Finest Kind Main. Our website is finest kindmain.com and if you want to send me a line personally. So my email is Tom. T O M at. You guessed it. Finest kindmane.com.

[Host]

Awesome. And this is episode 1159. If you want to check out the show notes, we'll have everything summarized right there. Links, any tools or services recommended, your contact information. And Tom, I literally cannot do what I do without people like you being willing to let me come in to your space to get you to get vulnerable, to open up. You make this work possible, and there is no questioning, my friend. You are unstoppable.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Thank you. I appreciate the time and the platform and. And this. This was fun.

[Host]

Thank you.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Cool.

[Host]

Cheers.

[Tom Brady Barthelm]

Cheers.