1223: Oli Petit, Co-Founder/Co-Owner of The Red Bar and Louis Louis

Summary

Podcast Summary: Restaurant Unstoppable Ep. 1223

Guest: Oli Petit, Co-Founder/Co-Owner of The Red Bar and Louis Louis
Host: Eric Cacciatore
Date: September 29, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, host Eric Cacciatore sits down with Olivier (“Oli”) Petit, co-founder of two celebrated Florida restaurants: The Red Bar and Louis Louis. Oli shares his journey from Belgium to the American South, the legacy of his restaurant family, and the leadership lessons and operational strategies developed across decades. The discussion is deeply candid, centering on finding balance between success and happiness, navigating the unique hardships of the restaurant industry, building lasting teams, and defining what sustainable success genuinely means.

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Main Themes

• Pursuing longevity and community over rapid scale
• Balancing personal happiness with professional achievements
• The importance of delegation, sharing knowledge, and building a people-first culture
• Learning from failures and ego-driven missteps
• The central role of property ownership and financial caution

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introducing Oli Petit and His Mantra (04:48)

• Mantra: “Happy days are here to stay.”
  • Oli: “We all seek success and happiness and oftentimes it’s difficult to achieve both... That is the one thing that I have done a lot of work personally and with the people I work with to maintain happiness. And it’s ongoing, it’s not a struggle, but it’s a moving target.” [04:54]

Defining Success in Hospitality (05:23)

• Longevity & Community:
  • Oli: “Success to me... in the restaurant business would be longevity, sustaining in an environment that’s very volatile. Maintaining relationships... duration, to me, probably the most prevalent sign of success.” [05:26]
• Personal Balance:
  • Success is filling multiple life “buckets”: health, relationships, financial, spiritual—“It’s so easy to focus on one aspect and overlook others.” [06:22]

Lessons from Industry Tragedies (07:39)

• Reflection on the “cost” of celebrated industry figures like Charlie Trotter and Anthony Bourdain.
  • Oli: “Clearly these examples are cautionary tales... tremendous success and a level of unhappiness.” [08:03]

The Business Side of Restaurants (09:01)

• Rigorous Financial Awareness:

  • Early mistake: focusing on food, not business.
  • Always keep customer experience at the center, even while managing costs.
  • Many restaurants fail from undercapitalization and unrealistic rent agreements.

• Seating and Volume:

  • Red Bar: 300 seats (200 indoor), 10% takeout, minimal catering. [10:45]
  • Prime cost runs high (60%), but mitigated by property ownership and high volume. [13:49]

On Growth and Failure (13:27, 21:39)

• Oli candidly shares that though he currently operates two restaurants, he’s closed five others:

  • “We have closed five of them. It didn’t work.” [13:41]

• Lessons learned:

  • Listen to business partners, don’t ignore red flags for passion alone.
  • The importance of balancing “heart” and “wallet” in decision-making.

Heritage, Upbringing, and Early Years (18:48–32:37)

• Growing up between Belgium and Arkansas in a family of restaurateurs (father was a French-style maître d').
• Initially aspired to fine dining and chef life but realized his love was the broader hospitality experience and not just cooking.

Building The Red Bar: Honest, Humble Beginnings (31:33)

• Opened in 1995 in a former shack—late-night hours, focus on serving restaurant workers after hours, built word of mouth community slowly.

  • On early strategy:
    “I think what set me apart then was that I was till 2am and I was a late night bar... all the restaurant guys getting off work started rolling in.” [31:33]

  • On adapting and survival:
    “Dinner, my big dream was to do a hundred dinners. I would do 10, 8... then at 10pm right, the door would open.” [31:52]

Delegation & Lack of Ego (38:39)

• Delegated kitchen roles early and broke from tradition of chef secrecy:
  • Oli: “Right away I delegated... I had no secrets. I wanted the guys to execute for me, which would allow me to be more like my father, a front of the house guy, which was my dream.” [38:39]
• This openness allowed him to nurture talent and transition to leadership/front-of-house.

Finding Balance: Success vs. Happiness (40:09)

• “Success is intoxicating... the emphasis is too much on success and not enough on happiness.” [40:09]
• Early years prioritized work at the expense of family and personal life—a pattern he didn’t recognize as unsustainable until 15 years in.

Hard Lessons from Failure (52:06–54:32)

• The “final ego trip” was a failed attempt to run a diner that ignored fit with local expectations.
  • “If you’re gonna do a diner, do a diner. You have to really commit and cater to the clientele... Sometimes you can impose your will... but it’s difficult.” [52:38]
• Key takeaway: Don’t let passion for a building or image override a realistic business plan.

Smart Expansion: Real Estate Matters (55:56–58:58)

• Only consider new projects if they come with property ownership or a truly advantageous lease.
  • “If you can buy the property... often tell people... be the landlord. Because if that restaurant goes under, at least you have some real estate to sell or lease.” [58:19]

Financial Wisdom

• Avoid triple net leases and percentage-of-sales rent structures whenever possible.
• Turnkey opportunities with strong “bones” (existing infrastructure) are best for reducing investment risk.
  • “Triple net is your rent, your property taxes, and your insurance... worst deal.” [56:49]

Leadership, HR, and Culture (75:32–85:53)

• Oli shifted to a strong HR/cultural focus in later years, maintaining a positive, selective team environment.

  • “I always say when I look at everyone... I could see myself spending the day on the boat with them, hanging out at the barbecue. They all have something on a human level that attracts me...” [67:19]

• Inclusive, from-within promotion policy and open communication empowered team longevity.

• “If you’re not a decent human, you’re not gonna work, man.” [67:19]

Systems, Standards, and Consistency (76:51–83:19)

• Developed clear staff ratios (1 server per 50 guests), regular weekly inventories, and detailed standard operating procedures (“proper mopping method”).
• On systems:
  “The hard part is to do it seven days a week, 365 days a year. That’s where the thing falls.” [83:19]
• Consistency in operations and behavior is key to sustainable culture.

On Restaurant Identity and Specialization (93:03)

• “Find something you’re good at, focus on it and try not to be something you’re not. If someone comes to... say, ‘Oh man, you don’t have a steak on your menu’... make sure that steak you have a great source for it. Make sure it becomes a special. Focus on finding an identity. I think it’s more important than ever.” [93:03]

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Notable Quotes

• “My mantra is happy days are here to stay.” – Oli Petit [04:48]
• “Success to me... would be longevity, sustaining in an environment that’s very volatile.” [05:26]
• “If you’re not a decent human, you’re not gonna work, man.” [67:19]
• “The hard part is to do it seven days a week, 365 days a year. That’s where the thing falls.” [83:19]
• “Find something you’re good at, focus on it and try not to be something you’re not.” [93:03]

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Key Timestamps

• Defining Success: 05:23
• Reflection on Industry Losses (Bourdain/Trotter): 07:39
• Financial Lessons & Prime Costs: 12:16, 13:48
• First Red Bar Nights & Building Community: 31:33–34:35
• Delegation & People-first Culture: 38:39, 75:32
• Failures & Learning from Ego-driven Expansion: 52:06–54:32
• Expansion Only with Real Estate: 55:56–58:58
• Oli’s HR Philosophy: 75:32–85:53
• SOPs & Consistency: 76:53–83:19
• Restaurant Identity & Specialization: 93:03

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Memorable & Actionable Takeaways

3 Pieces of Wisdom Oli Would Leave Behind

1. Relationships: “What do you leave behind with the relationships? Did you leave a good impression? Did you treat people fairly?” [94:54]
2. Consistency: “Were you consistent... not just in food but in behavior and your treatment of others.” [95:07]
3. Honesty: “Be honest with yourself and with others... relationships matter.” [95:28]

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Conclusion

Oli Petit’s career is a testament to the power of humility, adaptability, and community in hospitality. His candid stories remind restaurateurs and entrepreneurs that real, sustainable success is rooted in honest self-reflection, putting people first, and never losing sight of what brings happiness. For those dreaming of longevity in this volatile industry, Oli’s wisdom—stay balanced, specialize, own your destiny (and your building, if possible), and always value your people—offers a compelling roadmap.

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For more insights and resources, visit RestaurantUnstoppable.com.
Follow Red Bar on Instagram: @RedBar95

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This summary skips all ad reads and generalized intros/outros, focusing entirely on the vibrant, actionable content shared between Eric and Oli Petit.

Transcript

[A]

I'll tell you, I'll say right away, because when I'm wearing my chef coat and I'm running around the dining room making sure everyone meets me, that's definitely from the heart. I want to know what the customers are doing right away. The first thing I did as soon as I broke 100 dinners and even more quickly got to 4th of July and the first year, I think with the serve, over 400 people, you know, with six ice, stove, one eye, convection over there, right away I trained people and I think that's, that's the one thing, especially my generation, the chef has secrets. You don't share anything. You let them earn, let them do the dirty. Not lousy, but the work that's less glamorous. You make sure you make the sauces and your dressing. Me, right away, I delegated right away. I brought in people to teach them what I was doing. I had no secrets. I mean, I wanted the guys to execute for me, which would allow me to be more like my father, a front of the house guy, which was ultimately my dream is to be a front of the house guy. Yeah. So I say right away by having that small menu, the production friendly menu, unassuming menu, not emphasizing that I'm a French chef, besides me being there as a French chef. But if we got, we got a couple of features then and right away, this wonderful guy named Brian, I introduced him right away as the chef. I was even the chef. And I was six months into it when a little bit of media that we.

[B]

The power of that lack of ego, you know, when it's not about you, it's not about the ego. You know, it's. I'm seeing, I'm hearing that in your story. Welcome to restaurant unstoppable. For 10 years and over 1,000 episodes, I've been traveling the country chasing word of mouth leads and having in person only long form discussions with the industry's finest owners and operators. Our mission is to inspire, empower and transform the restaurant industry by bridging the gap between this generation's leaders and the next. Listen to today's guest and so many others and get one step closer to becoming unstoppable. Do you wish you could have all of your restaurant needs and solutions under one roof? Well, you can. It's called Restaurant Restaurant Systems Pro. And with Restaurant Systems Pro, you get accounting systems, budgeting systems, costing systems, purchasing systems, inventory management systems, labor management systems, training systems, and systems to create and implement checklists. And on top of all this, Restaurant Systems Pro has their own native general ledger. And they're in the process of launching their own pos, which they are so appropriately naming serve because that's exactly what they do. To learn more, head over to restaurantunstoppable.com where you can schedule your own demo. Watch a demo that I did with Restaurant Systems Pro CEO Fred Langley or catch every and all testimonial we've ever recorded on the show. That's Restaurant Unstoppable.com RSP this episode is made possible by me M is a digital recipe platform that helps you stay creative, build profitable menus, and nail food execution at scale. We know to scale you need consistency because consistency builds trust with your guests and your staff. We all want to know what the job done right looks like. And when you have systems, your systems are a picture of perfection of what that job done right is. And that puts us to peace. We are so happy when we know we're doing a good job. Me will be the one source of truth for your entire team. It's time to take control of your profitability. Learn more at www.getme.com unstoppable that's www.g e t m e e z do with excitement. Allow me to introduce to you today's guest, co owner and co founder of Red Bar and Louis Louise, Ollie Petit. Ollie, my man, are you feeling unstoppable today?

[A]

I am, Brian. Thank you for having me.

[B]

Oh, man, My pleasure. And do me a favor, say your full name because I was afraid to even take a crack at it. But when. When you say it, it sounds so cool.

[A]

My name is Olivier Petit. Yeah, man.

[B]

And I. Go ahead.

[A]

My friends call me Ollie. Ollie. Yeah.

[B]

And I am here because Robert St. John actually said I should reach out to you over almost a year and a half now, going back and try to connect with you. Last year we weren't able to make our. Our calendars link up or sync up, but we're here this year. I cannot wait to dive into who you are and how you got to where you are. But let's get that motivational inspirational ball rolling with a success quote or mantra. What do you got for us?

[A]

Well, my. My mantra is happy days are here to stay.

[B]

Happy days are here today. Dive into that, my friend.

[A]

I mean, I think oftentimes we. We all seeking success and happiness and oftentimes it's difficult to achieve both. You can reach great levels of success, but we oftentimes overlook happiness. And that is the one thing that I have done a lot of work personally and with the people I work with to maintain happiness. And it's an ongoing, it's not a struggle, but it's definitely a moving target. Exactly.

[B]

What is successful to you? How would you define success?

[A]

Well, success to me certainly in a restaurant business would be longevity, sustaining in an environment that's very volatile. Maintaining relationship, certainly with your co workers, your purveyors, your community. I'll call success someone that can achieve those things. Duration, to me, probably the most prevalent sign of success.

[B]

What about on a personal level? You said success in the restaurant industry is those things, but what about on a personal level? What is success?

[A]

Well, what's more, the measurement is, isn't, isn't always clear, depending on what the individual is seeking. But a balance, I mean, I think we all have buckets we're trying to fill. It'd be from a health standpoint, mental standpoint, relationship standpoint, friendships, financial. Financial. And it's so easy to focus on one aspect.

[B]

Spiritual, you bet.

[A]

And overlooked others. Yeah, I know I've made those mistakes in the past. It's quite easy to get caught up and then sometimes fall out of balance. And when that happens, it's never too late. You can always rebalance very, very much like anything. But the workload sometime can be overwhelming and, and we tend to accept a reality that's probably could be different if with a little bit of a commitment.

[B]

Right. And you know, it's one of, on this journey, the mission statement is to inspire, empower and transform the industry. You know, really like it's that definition of success. Like what is, what is growth? What is, what is empowerment? What is transformation? What is the future that we want for each other? And like that's, I think the question that I'm constantly trying to answer, like what does balance look like in the restaurant industry? Is it a hundred units instead of a thousand units? Or is it, you know, maybe like just two or three units that have amazing relationships and longevity and that are literal like cornerstones of a community. And like what buckets is that feeling? You know, And I think we could be better about really defining what success is right now. Success, the media just defines what the success is. And we celebrate these people, we call them successful. We were talking about this pre interview, we're talking about Charlie Trotter and Anthony Bourdain is if that success is the only way out taking our lives. You know, like, I hate to sound like a jerk right out the gates, but like what's going through your mind?

[A]

As I'm saying clearly, these examples are cautionary tales really? These guys, I admire them.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Charlie Trotter, one of my. One of my culinary heroes. One of the guys. One of the first cookbook I bought was Charlie's original cookbook, Anthony. I mean, how could you not love the show? We all envied his life. I mean, who didn't want to travel the world?

[B]

The life that the media made us think he was living.

[A]

You bet. And clearly there is a great example of. Of tremendous success and a level of unhappiness. And, of course, mental illness has to play a part of it. I think anyone that decides to take his life at some point has to be oftentimes too late.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the. The mental aspect is. Is just not scratching the surface of that.

[B]

And it happens so often in this industry that we really have to take a few steps back and say, what do we. What do. What are we aiming for here? What's the goal? Right. Great way to get this thing started, man. We're already off to a great star. So real p. Real quick, before we dive into, like, how you got to where you are. Like, what is your. What is your portfolio today? Two restaurants.

[A]

Two restaurants.

[B]

Okay. And in terms of you open, like, well, before we. We'll go back into that, but, like, how much revenue are you doing here and like, how much volume. Percent volume, profit, you know, prime cost, cost of goods. Give us an idea of, like, what that looks like. Like.

[A]

Yeah, well, you know, like it says restaurant business. And oftentimes, and I was that guy. I got in the restaurant part of it and kind of overlooked the business aspect of it. And I learned the hard way, and I think many of my counterparts have to. I think by the time you get to the business part of it, if you're having to learn the hard way, sometimes it's too late and. And you have given up. On our end, we have tried to. To be very cautious of our labor cost, food cost, operational cost, and I think oftentimes you can fall into ignoring the most important part, which is the customer experience.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, if there's a restaurant that's three blocks from you that's serving $50 entrees, one of the mistakes I think the operators do is that, well, if this guy's out there charging 50 bucks an entrees, I can probably get it, too. That may be true, but oftentimes the guy that's charging $50 an entree has been there a long time, maybe has earned his keeps, and has built a reputation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think once you lose the customer experience, once you, you ignore that aspect of it in favor of cost and, and economics. Oftentimes you can find the experience to customers will pay the cost. And I think by the time you get to that equation, you're in big trouble unless you have endless funds. And sometimes it's always the great equalizer to have funding. And another reason why restaurant disappear is they're underfunded.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And, and that could have been us.

[B]

The most common reason why restaurants disappear under capitalized, right?

[A]

You bet. Yeah.

[B]

Not enough Runway to get things going. So in terms of where you are today, how many seats? So today you're, you're probably mostly known for red Bar. Today we're sitting at Louie Louie. In terms of branding, you said very similar with the red bar. How many seats are at the red bar?

[A]

At the seat. At the red bar, we seats fully seated, close to 300.

[B]

300. Is that indoor and outdoor seating?

[A]

Indoor and outdoor seating.

[B]

Indoor alone.

[A]

How are there almost, almost 200 indoor.

[B]

Okay, so 100 seats outside. So you're doing volume there. So between 200 and 300.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And all dine in.

[A]

Well, we do a good amount of to go business. Of course, you know, deliver. We're involved with all the, the, the you know, Uber eats and all these.

[B]

What percentage of you say what's that split? Yeah, dine in verse, takeout.

[A]

Well, we've seen a trend of to go going down versus take out through the delivery apps going up and I'd say that that number is about 10%. 10% of the volume is in takeout.

[B]

So 90 is through dine in and 10% is through takeout.

[A]

I would like to do more.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

To do more take out.

[B]

And what about catering? Do you guys do catering?

[A]

Minimum, Very minimum. Once more. Catering is a specialty and we've gotten ourselves into some troubles before where we take on a wedding or a very important party and things go wrong.

[B]

There's reasons why they're specialists.

[A]

You better believe it all looks easy until you get there. Yeah. And we've learned a hard way to stick to what we know and do that well. And we do some caterings, but always under never, never anything over 50 guests and close to our location with a menu that's designed by us to where we can assure the production friendly aspect of it.

[B]

And where would you say you're at with your prime cost with the red Bar?

[A]

Yeah, well, we tend to run a higher food cost in our restaurant. We have tried to maintain a price point that the customer can, can, can feel again values always been a great perception of ours. So we are running about a 35% food cost, which in the industry is considered. Considered, I think, slightly above, I think, recommend 30% or less. And we run 35. And we fight that, especially these days with the price of groceries and everything going up.

[B]

What about labor?

[A]

Labor, that's another. Another one that we, you know, We've been open 30 years, and we're proud to say that that's probably the biggest secret to our success is the wonderful crew that works with us. Some of the people that work with us have been there since day. Day one. Yeah. Many of them 20 years plus. So therefore, our labor cost once more is a little bit on. On the high side for the industry standard, because the people that have been with us, as well as you treat them, they still need to be rewarded. Rewarded financially.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So we have been in that position where we, you know, we feel like we need to grow the company in order to sustain the.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The growth of.

[B]

Well, there's truth to that. Like, if you're not growing, you're dying. But what. But like, what is that? Like, we're again, bounce.

[A]

Yeah. We've also learned our hard way. We own two restaurants presently, but we have owned. We have closed five of them.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

I can't wait.

[A]

It didn't work. Yeah. Yeah, it didn't work. Yeah, you bet.

[B]

So are we at like 25 with the labor costs? If you had a guess?

[A]

Yeah, I'd say so.

[B]

Overall, prime costs 60, which is on the high side. But do you own the properties?

[A]

We do.

[B]

Okay, so your rent is nothing and you're appreciating value on the, you know, on the property. So that's.

[A]

That's what saves you. Yeah. We do own the property here at Lou Louis. We don't own the property of the Red Bar. We're a minority owner over there in the property. So we do pay rent, and it's the typical rent factor these days based on a percentage of sales.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which I can advise any new restaurateur, do not sign a percentage deal. I mean, it's unavoidable because that's what everyone wants to in retail these days, but it's. It can be. Can be surprised.

[B]

So you advise against doing a percentage of sales. So is that. That's what the deal you got into? That's what you're doing? Okay. When did you sign that? When was that deal?

[A]

I'll tell you. My original deal in 1995, my rent was $1500 a month.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Or 5% of gross.

[B]

And at the time, 5% was a lot less than $1500.

[A]

5% to me. I never thought my calculation would be that I needed to do 30,000amonth. A thousand dollars a day. In 1995, my predictions were $200 a day. My numbers are crunched. I was going to be able to pay my 1500 bucks. There was no AC in the restaurant. You know, in my first month, I paid percentage. Okay. That's how fortunate I was. Good. It did. Right off the bat. Oh wow. To my surprise, I was. Oh my. That 5% is.

[B]

That's a lot of money.

[A]

Substantial.

[B]

And well, the building burnt down and they rebuilt it. You weren't able to negotiate new terms?

[A]

Well, they actually, the new terms were actually negotiate on. On the upside because they build us a beautiful building. Someone's got to pay for it.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Yes. With the dynamics changed drastically for us.

[B]

So what about Louie Louie, how many seats are we at here?

[A]

Yeah, here we're 90, 100. A bit more than that. The display seats on the indoor, 130.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And on the outside we have about an 80. We can sit up to 80 people outside. So seats over 200, 210.

[B]

On all cylinders.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And are your, are your costs similar labor, cost of goods, similar ballpark.

[A]

Yeah. Well, actually, the Red Bar, like the name implies, the original ideas. It's a bar and it still is a bar. We do a. Our volumes of sales. Alcohol is about 35% of the volume of sales at the Red Bar. Here at Lulu's, the volume of sales in alcohol is about in the low, in the high teens.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I guess, yeah, profit margins as we know. It's the amazing thing about the restaurant business, people, we give you a hard time when you raise the burger 50 cents. But $17 margaritas sometimes are acceptable. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So in all in all, so you're, you're, you know, you're, you own this building that helps with the rent. At Red Bar, you're paying a percentage of sales. But I think when you're, you must be doing good volume in order like is what I'm thinking. And when you, when you have sales, that takes care of a lot of, you know, the, the challenges with labor and costs goods.

[A]

No question. I mean, the, the great, the great equalizers. As I mentioned earlier, when you start a business, if you have the funds and cash flow, sometimes you might be running a bit of a higher food cost. Yeah. Around a little higher labor cost. But if you're making it up with a tremendous volume it compensates.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And this is where. The part where you can be greedy enough. Well, I'm doing a. Let's say a 35 food cost. I want to reduce it down to 25.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, at what cost? Yeah. And those are philosophical questions that I think every operator at some point goes to ask. Yeah. And us, we have been very diligent and very cautious in the. That.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To maintain that. To. To get back our money, but at the same time, not be too. Because, as I said, another guy might be charging 50 bucks for his group or dinner. Well, we're going to try to maintain our. I think at this point, we're at 38 bucks, I think in the high 30s for our average fish dinner. You know, which good number. I mean. Yeah, you bet.

[B]

So now I'm going to be greedy with my. My, my questions here. Can you give us an idea of the amount of volume you're doing?

[A]

Well, I could tell you on a. On a big night at the restaurant, we can serve a thousand people. That's. That's a big night for us, you.

[B]

Know, 3,000 if everybody's ordering fish.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Volumes of sales. Exactly. I mean, you know, throwing your bar. I mean, don't. Those numbers are, as I said, my. The expectation. 1995 was 200 a day. Yeah. 6,000amonth. So sometimes we do that an hour, you know. Yeah.

[B]

So you're doing good. You're doing good. That's the person we're talking about to. And Robert St. John had amazing things to say about you. He actually gave me a list. He's like, you know, huge supporter of the podcast, listening to the show, and he's like, these are the names in the south. You got to get on. You're one of those names. So I know if you're on this list, like, there's things that are going to come out in today's conversation. I cannot wait to get into it. So where does it make sense to start sharing your story back? I know you came to the states in 1970.

[A]

I came to the state 1986.

[B]

86.

[A]

My father. My father's a restaurant. Okay. He's a maitre d. French style maitre d. I grew up in Belgium with him working in a casino. He was the maitre d of our. In the town of SPA, where the F1 race is held every year. There's a casino out there. And my dad for years was Dimitri d out there going to work in his tuxedo, cumberbunts. My mother would press his shirt. It Looks so glamorous. My birthdays would go out there. Dad looked like he was, I mean, James Bond to me. In a way, the tuxedo did it. Then he moved to America. In the mid-70s, the whole family moved to America. Little Rock, Arkansas, that gets a job in a tremendous restaurant that no longer exists but is still beloved in the city of Little Rock called Jacques and Suzanne. 30th floor, the first commercial building downtown Little Rock. French team chandelier, Louis XVI furnishings. All the chefs maitre d, all from Europe at the time. Immigration is an application and. And the whole family moves to Little Rock, treated like royalty.

[B]

And that's you got here in 86.

[A]

This is 75.

[B]

75, okay.

[A]

Parents divorce. We're going back to Belgium six months later.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

That's first bouts with depression and disappointment. You know, didn't want to leave. Love the idea of living in America and forward. 1986, 10 years later, I'm 16 years old and I'm ready. Tell my father I'm your guy. I'm dropping out of high school and I'm going to be in a restaurant business. Okay. Yeah. My brother's in college studying to be an engineer. Take some accounting school. Accounting classes will come. Andy later because we're partners and he's a tremendous businessman.

[B]

Engineering is huge too, in this industry. I found there's a lot of success with people that have that engineer's mind, you know, systems processes.

[A]

You are absolutely correct to be applied in the business aspect of it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I was your typical person. My dad and I were similar. We're passionate about the restaurant business. We love it. It's sort of an art form, if you will, for us. We. We do a lot, a lot of decision. And I'm going to quote Kevin Boehmer from the Great Pass. He says, I learned a hard way to not think with my heart, but think with my wallet. Yeah. And you need to balance once more. You can't just be about the wallet. Yeah. But sometimes you let your heart get in the way and you see things, you see potential. You ignore facts. That rents too high, that triple net.

[B]

Deals get blinders on. You see the vision, want it, you know, like that's all you're probably falling into the world of. You're. You got that entrepreneurial, that visionary, emotional social intelligence. And like, just go, go, go, go. We'll inspire. We'll figure it out. And you just kind of have that vision and you don't see the numbers, you don't see the facts.

[A]

And sometimes you can wing It. Sometimes it can work, but sometimes came the kiss of death. And we've experienced it. As I mentioned, we closed five restaurants. Yeah. And it was a couple of them when my brother was, like, saying, this is not good.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I ignored it, and I insisted on the. On the. On the not, you know, on going forward with the. With the. The motion. And we regretted it. Yeah. So clearly. Yeah.

[B]

Behind every great restaurant is a great person. The key to being great is to be of service to others. And this holds true for all organizations, not just restaurants. After spending a month in Phoenix, Arizona, being hosted by Restaurant Systems Pro CEO Fred Langley, I got to experience firsthand Fred's desire to serve. It all started when I got there. Fred gave me the keys to his house and to his office building. When Fred leaves work every day, I witnessed him go coach one of his two sons baseball teams. And when Fred's neighbor lost power when they were hosting their son's birthday party, Fred offered to host the party at his house. Eric, why are you sharing this? Because how you do one thing is how you do everything. And believe me when I say that the desire to serve extends to Fred's restaurant clients. There are no secrets or shortcuts to life or restaurant success. There's only discipline, hard work, and the desire to do the right thing. Fred and his team at Restaurant Systems Pro are here to serve you with the systems and resources to be more disciplined so you can do the hard thing, which nine times out of 10, is the right thing. With Restaurant Systems Pro, you get accounting systems, budgeting systems, costing systems, purchasing systems, inventory management systems, labor management systems, training systems, and the systems to create and implement checklists. On top of all this, Restaurant Systems Pro also has their own native general ledger, and they're in the process of launching their own pos, which they are so appropriately naming cerb. And you know what? If you don't want to change your pos, that's absolutely fine, because Restaurant Systems Pro integrates with all major POS providers. To learn more, head over to restaurantunstoppable.com RSP and you will find a link to schedule a demo with their sales team. A demo I personally did with Restaurant Systems Pro CEO Fred Langley and all 18 of our testimonials that we've recorded since the beginning of Restaurant stoppable. Again, that's restaurantunstoppable.com RSP. So, in 1986, you come here. Yeah.

[A]

What? I come to Little Rock, Arkansas. My dad owns a restaurant, very successful, called Maison Louis, named after him.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Maitre D Tuxedo Chefs once more from Europe. First class French style cuisine. Dover soul, Chateaubriand. That's that sort of thing. And I'm watching my dad. It's tough. Chefs are temperamental customers. So relentless. One false move and your dead meat. Critics always worried about that critic coming in. And me at that point, then I'm thinking, I'm gonna follow in my dad's footstep and be in fine dining. And at that point, I've decided to be a chef. I'm in the kitchen. But that struggle really turned me off. I also realized that to be a fine dining chef, you also need to have a real passion. I mean, there's many chefs out there that are not. I'm not gonna say every Chefs are fully committed with the passion to cooking. You know me, I realized at once, some point that I was a lack of passion for cooking. Yeah. I enjoy the restaurant business more than the cooking part. And that's why my reinvention somewhat began well in the early 90s.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

In the early 90s, my father had a change in his life. Got to. Went to a divorce and moved back to Belgium, where we're from.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And at that point, me, I'm 20 years old, I live in America. I'm loving the American lifestyle. And I've. My best friend lived in Fort Walton Beach, Florida, and I decided to come.

[B]

Who was your best friend at this point?

[A]

His name is. His name is Chuck Stiles.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Chuck and Carmen Styles. We still work together.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Actually. And he himself was a restaurant owner for many years.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And throwing the towel after 20 some odd years, you know, with rent is what got him. And he was never able to buy his building. And eventually that, yeah, somewhat squeezed it.

[B]

I'll get you, man.

[A]

You bet. So.

[B]

So you're 20 years old. Your. Your friend is in the restaurant industry. You're in the restaurant industry. What's the vision for yourself?

[A]

Well, at that point, I still think I'm going to be a chef.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's what I know. I'm in French, French cuisine. I'm from Belgium. The heritage is there. My image. Yeah. The whites, the chef hats. And, and, and I take great pride in that. I really think that that's still my way. Although inside there's all kinds of alarm bells that says, dude, changing the menu again. The fall is here. Finally we got a system going with the guys. And here we are having to be reinvent the wheel here.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The. The change came when I found the building where the red bar is. The thing had no air conditioning. It was a shack on the beach. And there was a guy that was in there. He had pool tables in the place. And he lasted a season. We worked together, a guy named Bill out of Birmingham, Alabama.

[B]

So you were working there before you. You.

[A]

I did. This is. This is how I found as the chef. Well, I was hired. I lived in Fort Walton Beach, Florida, which is about 45 minutes away.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

From this area. And I'm hired as a. As a waiter in this restaurant called the Bay Cafe. Just earlier today for Long Beach, Florida, under the bridge out there, French guy and his brother own it, and he's opening a bake cafe in Grain beach, and he's going with a French team. He's kind of casual, but yet fine dining. And I work for the guy. Things didn't work out. I. I used to say I quit, but reality, I got fired. You know, I was naive and I always had something to say, not to think about young restauranturs out there. Sometimes be quiet. Trying to be truthful doesn't always pay off. Anyway, I appreciate the vulnerability. I got laid off, fired, and I got a job in Seaside, Florida, at the Modica Market, which is a deli. Here I am French chef. My father's cooking. One week I'm cooking sole and filet mignon. Now I'm in the deli making salads and soups. But I'm welcome to that family treated me like they really, really welcomed me. And I humbled myself. Yeah. Did that work within mind to somewhat do something different? And right behind that deli, a French inn opens called Josephine's Six Table Dining Room, with French china on the. On the table. French porcelain, I should say, fancy as can be. And they hired me as a sous chef. So I'm back with my whites. I'm back in the forefront as a. As a. As a chef.

[B]

So this is all in the early 90s.

[A]

This is between 1990 and 1994.

[B]

In 1994. What happens in 1994?

[A]

In 94. By then, I developed a little bit of a reputation around town as a chef, as a sort of reliable guy. I worked day at the Modica Market, nighttime at Josephine's. I'm putting in the hours, you know, and the landlord of the Red Bar Pay Cafe at the time, fired, got rid of the French guy that had. That hired me in 1990. And I happened to be renting an apartment on. There were five guys that owned that property. One of them endorsed me and took me under his wing and literally didn't force me. But reminding Me that, that belonged, that I deserve to have my own restaurant. Okay. I worked too hard not to have it, that sort of speech. So they lifted me. Yeah. Joe Cannon, Okay. Rest his soul. Wonderful man.

[B]

Okay, so the guy that originally hired you to work in his restaurant got fired. And then you end up going back, which was the Red Bar at that point.

[A]

Exactly what they did. They didn't renew his lease. He had a year to year deal and for four years he started with the big cafe.

[B]

And your landlord was a guy that was, that was lifting you up, encouraging you.

[A]

That's correct, yeah. And him every year. The guy was changing the concept as well. One year there was my friend Bill from Birmingham that had the pool table that was one of the last incarnation of it. And he gave me the idea of kind of like be more of a bar, you know, be more. He was making pretty good money doing that. But he was driving the neighbors crazy. The landlords didn't like it just to have a honky tonk basically in there. And so in 94 he gets kicked out. I'm on the list to get the build the, the building, but I'm still on the outs. The other landlords, they don't really. I'm 24 years old. Where's the money? See, okay, he works hard. So What? And finally, January 1st, 1995, I get the call, dude, you can walk into this place. And I did. While I still had my job in Seaside.

[B]

Exactly 35 years ago.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we just celebrated. Well, this is 1995, so 30 years.

[B]

30 years ago.

[A]

30 years ago.

[B]

Horrible.

[A]

And, and I, and I walk into the place and the original name was Piccolo Restaurant, which is my, my last name is Petit, which translates into small in, in. In English. Yeah. And in Italian it's called Piccolo. Okay. And my father owned a restaurant called Piccolo in Little Rock that failed. That was my first experience as a chef, if you will. 20 years old. I think my dad, somebody put me in charge of that was clueless thing went under. Oh, man. Another experience was like, oh my God, I'm not worthy. And so my original is Piccolo Restaurant and the Red bar, slash emphasis on the red bar. And my idea is that pool tables, late night bar, open till 2am, open for lunch, dinner and a late bar.

[B]

To 2am so what, in hindsight, looking back at this time, early on, what made you successful? What were you doing?

[A]

Yeah, you know, I think what set me apart then was that is that I was till 2am and that I was a late night bar. I would do literally no business for lunch. When I say literally there were days when no one showed up. Dinner. My big dream was to do a hundred dinners. I would do 10, eight.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then at 10pm Right, the door would open. I had two pool tables in the dining room which I covered with these velvet fake velvet curtains from. From lunch and dinner. No pool playing. We're a restaurant. I still want to be a restaurant guy. 10pm Those curtains came down and all the restaurant guys getting off work started rolling in. All my buddies. I'm 25 years old, I'm on the scene. Young Kevin Bame from quoted earlier lives in this town. He's coming in with his friends and I've become a destination for late night. Yeah. Now you're in there at 11 o', clock, you're hungry. Well, let me go back there, man. Let me make you a chicken panee, a crab cake, a sauteed piece of fish, a nice cheese manicotti with. I literally would roll the dough to order, stuffing it. But I would custom make dish to the customer, which, you know, oftentimes you expected to eat chicken fingers, which I love. Burger. I was cooking them entrees that I'm serving today.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I was pricing, literally. My buddy, the waiter there, it's five bucks for you. You ten dollars. Ridiculous. I was literally giving the food away. But I'm cooking it all. Yeah, I'm managing it all. My cost isn't there.

[B]

Yeah, you're zero labor created within four.

[A]

Months when spring break hits. I was, I think the first time I broke 100 dinners, I think was right there, right around March.

[B]

So within four months you, you were able to develop that reputation where people are coming in earlier and earlier and earlier. And I think there's definitely a pattern and there's definitely. This is an angle if you're in a market and there isn't that late night spot for all those people that are working the restaurant people. And especially if you're in the industry and you have a network of restaurant people and you become the spot for restaurant people to go like that. You can, you can thrive off that market because there's no place for them. And then you can also recruit from those customers. You can get the best of the best to come to work for you. The networking is phenomenal.

[A]

Couldn't agree more. And that's was precisely my like I was a vision. I wasn't that clairvoyant to say, you know, it's just a natural continuation because when you serve no lunches, you serve 10 dinners that $200 a day, you're not there, Right. But then you go, let's stay open a little later. The pool tables, I mean, that was from day one. So there was the, what I say, the desire to be a late night bar. But I had no idea that it's gonna create that network that you mentioned, connecting with people, adding servers that would go back to their restaurant and say, hey, go check out this Belgian guy down there. He's cooking some good food at a reasonable price. Yeah. But it with on site. That's exactly what happened.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

So, yeah, clearly catering to what your area needs, it gives you a little, a little bit of an edge, if you will.

[B]

So in the first couple years, like, like how long did it take you to kind of truly find your identity? Because you're kind of in the beginning, you're just kind of figuring it out. You're. You're throwing things against the wall.

[A]

You know my original idea, which is now, you know, the farm to table concept. Yeah. Okay. Which is now very prevalent and almost expected. Expect smaller menu, production friendly menu. At that time, I would literally go to the grocery store, which at the time was called Del Champ, which is a Winn Dixie today. And I would go there in the morning or in the afternoon, depending when the break would come. And I would go by some good looking pork chops there in the counter, a couple of flank steaks. The seafood department, seafood had connections with fishermen because I'd already been working on the seafood part. I had tremendous connection. Soft shell crab jumble on crab meat. Tremendous quality product. But I would literally go do my groceries. Cisco didn't get in the picture to probably about three months into the play, okay. I was literally buying stuff, going to Sam's club. I'd buy my toilet paper out there. I'd buy all the things needed for my operation. Literally myself get driving in the car. So the, the blackboard menu was. Which we operated today. We come to the table, we bring a blackboard to the table.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I would erase it on the daily. Write down my special, my little chicken panee, which is still served today. Number one dish at the Red bar, which is lightly breaded breasted chicken, caper sauce, mashed potatoes and the little salad. Changed the menu. I'm a chef. Let me give them in this juke joint where you shoot in pool, something chef inspired and chef prepared. And I'm wearing whites on top of that. I'm totally mixing the juke joint honky tongue with now, hey, even I'll admit it. I Used to accentuate my accent.

[B]

Hey, maybe you're giving that experience. You're show moment, you know, European thing.

[A]

Complex, if you will, that let me sound real European, so it's even more convincing, you know.

[B]

Right. But it's all part of that experience. But eventually you find out that, you know, you're. You're not, like, you're a great cook. You're a chef in the moment, but ultimately you're not, like, you don't have that, like, that drive to constantly be creating, like, correct. You know, so eventually you move out of the chef position. So, like, like from you open in 1995, by what time do you kind of cement what the majority of the. The existence of red bar would be going forward?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How long did it take you to figure that out?

[A]

I'll tell you. I'll say right away, because when I'm wearing my chef coats and I'm running around the dining room making sure everyone meets me, that's definitely from the heart. I want to know what the customers are doing. Right. When the first thing I did as soon as I broke 100 dinners and even more quickly got to 4th of July, and the first year, I think we'll serve over 400 people, you know, with six ice, stove, one eye, convection over there. Right away, I trained people, and I think that's. That's the one thing, especially my generation, the chef has secrets. You, you don't share anything. You, you let them earn, let them do the dirty. The, the loud, the. Not lousy, but the work that's less glamorous. You make sure you make the sauces and you're dressing me. Right away, I delegated right away. I brought in people to teach them what I was doing. I had no secrets. I mean, I wanted the guys to execute for me, which would allow me to be more like my father, a front of the house guy, which was ultimately my dream is to be a front of the house guy. Yeah. So I say right away, by having that small menu, the production, friendly menu, unassuming menu, not emphasizing that I'm a French chef, besides me being there as a French chef. But if we got. We got a couple of features then and right away, I remember this wonderful guy named Brian. I introduced him right away as the chef. I was even the chef. And I was six months into it. Yeah. When a little bit of media, the.

[B]

Power of that lack of ego, you know, when it's not about you, it's not about the ego. You know, I'm seeing, I'm hearing that in Your story.

[A]

Well, thank you for saying that. Yes. And clearly, I do have an ego.

[B]

Everybody has a little bit. We're all human, right. But being able to suppress that.

[A]

Suppress that for the greater good. Because ultimately, since my ego is in check with the chef aspect of it, it's one thing I've always found a little. You know, and I respect the guys that put in the time, but sometimes they say, I cut fish for five years before I moved to the sauces. Like, man, that's amazing that I respect that. But is it necessary? I mean, we're not doing brain surgery here. There is a commitment. You must pay some dues. But can we take away this idea that it's out of reach for someone to be able to filet a piece of salmon? I mean, I could take a guy from the street that's never done it, and I'm certain I could if he puts his. He could.

[B]

Yeah. What we're doing is we're holding people down. You know, we're putting them in this lane to do the dirty work, and you have to climb this ladder. But really, what you're. You're suppressing them because you don't.

[A]

I mean.

[B]

And that's when they say the.

[A]

The.

[B]

The secret to success is growth is so you can give people upward mobility. So. And the only reason why you open another restaurant is because your bench is so full that you gotta go. You gotta go open a new restaurant to move people up so you don't. So people have that sense of growth. But, like, again, like, what does that balance look like? What is there. Like, is there too much growth? And I think that's a real thing.

[A]

Thing too. Couldn't agree more with that. And this is the part of filling up the bucket and finding the balance. Success is intoxicating. And I think we all know that success and happiness are two very different things. And oftentimes, especially when you're up and coming and thank God that's changing, but the emphasis is too much on success and not enough on happiness. And my generation, certainly you were. I mean, if you didn't have two jobs and worked 80 hours a week, you were kind of consuming, considered lazy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think. I admire and I think it's necessary sometimes to work 80 hours a week. Early on, early on, you have to. And even at any time, if that's what's required. I mean, like the quotes say, you have to do what you have to do, but if that becomes your lifestyle, it becomes your only way out. I think at that point, it's like wear and tear. Something's gonna give. And it's the story of many restaurateur. We use the example of Charlie and Anthony. They probably burn out somewhere. Somewhere. The combination. Because it's hard to just pinpoint. I hate to. I was not in their shoes.

[B]

But you can't get into your mind.

[A]

Absolutely. And you don't need to go that extreme to commit. Take you take your life away. But you can also fail miserably in your relationship, families. I don't know. You divorces. And not anyone's immune to divorce.

[B]

You spend your whole life chasing something and then you look back and you're like, I have no legacy, no family.

[A]

You know. And some people, once more, we all have different aspirations.

[B]

But so looking back, knowing what you know today, you know, the man you are today, the restaurateur you are today, looking back at the first, early, early years, like, what were your biggest challenges?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like what did you have to overcome?

[A]

Yeah. That to. To be free. Freedom. One thing that I think we all seek, freedom. I think it's one of the greatest currency.

[B]

It's my biggest core value.

[A]

Yes. And it's so important. And yet society is just not scratching that surface. My generation, you didn't talk about that. It was more the other way around. Commitment, too much freedom will get you in trouble. And there's maybe a little bit of truth to that. It's good to be needed and to be somewhere. But me, the early days and I'm opening the Red Bar and I'm starting a family right when that's happening. My values were completely not centered. It was. I put the restaurant above anything.

[B]

How long did that last until you started to realize it couldn't be sustainable?

[A]

Well, it took me probably, I'd say 15 years.

[B]

15 years.

[A]

15 years.

[B]

1995 to 2000.

[A]

To learn to 95 to 2010. Yeah. Yeah. To learn to kind of be a little bit more bounce. And it's still so 95.

[B]

You're 25 years old in 2010. You are 40 or 35. 35. 35. So your mid 30s. And that's ironically around the time for a lot of men. You know, like our. Our frontal lobe starts to round off in our late 20s. And we start to realize, you know, we start to become self aware. We start to like, you know, really be able to like in the frontal lobe.

[A]

That.

[B]

That is the executive of your brand. And it looks forward, it plans, it's. It's the strategy. And you start to realize that it's less about the Emotion and more about the. The big picture, the security and like, where are we going? And how am I going to do this? How am I going to sustain this? Then it took another seven years beyond. Beyond. When your frontal lobe, you know, developed to get that. To break the chains.

[A]

Right, Very true. Absolutely. And. And I'm 55 years old and I feel like I still working on it. I'm still trying to find balance at this point.

[B]

It's a constant.

[A]

Absolutely. It never goes away, I don't think. I mean, at least for me, it's. This is where I've put the emphasis on my life, is on my personal life, my relationships, to put them first now. And of course, once you've achieved a little bit of success and you've learned some experiences, you. You can get a better idea. But I can honestly say that it's. It's a struggle, but it's something I work hard at, just like I work very hard at my restaurant and I was willing to sacrifice everything for it. I've sort of tried to refocus that energy to still be attentive to my restaurant. Yeah. But also be once more balance out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

My output.

[B]

So the mission statement is to inspire, empower and transform the industry. And really what I'm trying to do is to share individual stories of transformation, information. So it took you about 10 to 15 years to be able to remove yourself. Reflecting back at that first 10 to 15 years, what were the biggest points of evolution for you as a restaurateur in terms of, like, your growth?

[A]

Yeah, you know, my expectations were so low and I. I beat them right away. So I got the intoxicated. I got a taste of the intoxication.

[B]

Yeah. That feels the growth is.

[A]

That's a human need at that point. I'm even thinking, I'm even thinking franchising. I'm thinking going to other markets. I'm inspired by other restauranteur out there. Wolfgang Puck. Yeah. One of my heroes, Emeril Lagasse. These types of people were growing there on tv. It's the advent of the star chef, the guy that's in somewhere. I go, could that be me?

[B]

This is the early 2000s, late 90s, even.

[A]

Late 90s, got it. These, these, these, you know. Yeah. Comes out the advent of this celebrity chef. Celebrity chef. Yeah. And yet I think we all have a. We all have a role. And Chinese proverb, you're exactly where you need to be in life. Yeah, yeah. A sense of satisfaction, because that's probably another form of success. And certainly happiness is to Find satisfaction where you are at the moment. It sounds cliche, but be in the moment.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I had serious problems, serious problem with that. I. Not constantly, but I often thought that I needed. You've been, you know, even buy into the. You've been gifted you. You're a good operator. Everyone tells you you need to use your talent to grow, to create opportunities for others. There's some truth to that. But once more is an output that needs to come in order to achieve that. And sometimes you go, well, I have a child here. I'm enjoying a little vacation. My mom lives in Europe. I have friends, I have a social life. I like to work out, I like to play soccer. I have hobbies. I'm not just a machine here. Yeah. And you kind of start going with that little tug of war, inner tug of war. And I experienced it and it's not a fun place to be.

[B]

Like, was there a dark time during the saga war?

[A]

I can't say that I've been fortunate, you know, that. And I've struggled with some depression at the time we experienced depression, but fortunately for me, I think we all have that thing. There's an assault some degree.

[B]

We all go through peaks and valleys. Some people have. This thing is crazy.

[A]

I was fortunate very much like my dad is that way, optimistic.

[B]

I can relate with that too. Sometimes I'm like, I'm literally. My mission statement is to change the world, right? And I believe it. I'm going to change the world. Other days I'm like, what the am I doing? Who do I think I am? You know, like, I get it. Like, why, like, for what, for what? You know, two, two months on the road, you know, you start to like, why am I doing this? You know, like, you know, so I can, I can relate.

[A]

And I think most people can, you know, and once more, once you acknowledge those, those factors, you have a chance to once more work, work at it and try to curve the patterns and try to improve yourself to become a better version of yourself. And I think that's a. Such a legitimate feeling for a human being to try to better yourself. Yeah, just like sometimes, you know, I've done quite a bit of therapy also. I had a therapist that told me, say, listen man, you. One of your problem might be that you, you could reach a certain level of success. And once you get there, then it's either very much like life. You seldom leak. You don't coast for too long. You either on an upswing or somewhat of a downswing when you're coasting Oftentimes you don't even realize that you have it good. And you find a way to either move up or move yourself down. And I think that. I know that. That I was. I'm not a victim of that, but I had a hard time being in the moment.

[B]

And when was. When did you realize this? When did this realization come?

[A]

Yeah, well, they'll tell you when. Well, when my first wife left me, there were some moments of.

[B]

What year was that?

[A]

This was in 1998. 1998.

[B]

So from 19, you weren't married in 95, right?

[A]

We weren't. You know, my, my. And I called my first wife, but we weren't married, you know, but legally, I guess we were together for 13 years. We had two children together.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So they wouldn't do is get married, and. And I probably would have married her. That's a story for another day, you know.

[B]

So you got divorced in 98.

[A]

Lost my family, if you will, in 98, you know. Yeah.

[B]

And then you were only in 95. If you're 24 years old, you know, you're only 28. You're 28 years old, and you were together for 13 years?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

I know. Yeah.

[B]

So you started dating when you're 10?

[A]

No, it was 15 years old.

[B]

15.

[A]

15.

[B]

Horrible. Yeah, I was a commercial pilot. Isn't that terrifying?

[A]

Yeah, well, yeah, we knew each other, actually. I was 16 when I met her, and. And then we came to Florida together. I mean, we're still good friends, you know, she's the mom of my children.

[B]

Well, you're still babies at that age.

[A]

You know, but in a way, it kind of fell into the be responsible me. I'm totally bought into the. When I dropped out of high school and started working with my dad, I said, that's it. I'm gonna be this responsible guy. My careless friends. I'm not gonna. Yeah, I'm gonna be that guy that works, that commits. And you think you're smarter than the other guy because you're achieving a few things that the elders seem to praise. You know, look at this guy. He's working 80 hours a week. He's got a baby. He's responsible. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's some truth to that.

[B]

Yeah. You know, you look like you start comparing yourself and looking up to these people, it inspires you to. Well, I achieved the acclaim, the. The. The recognition, the acknowledgment of being good at this. But now how do I find balance and freedom?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What does that look like?

[A]

Well, exactly. And there's still a lot of learning to do there at that point of always wanted to be married and be in a relationship. And I met my. My future ex wife because there too.

[B]

Typically we go by the amount of restaurants, but today we're going to follow the amount of wives, you know, since.

[A]

We'Re talking about the more spiritual side of the business. At least my story, it was the following is the. The wanting to commit and wanting to be in a. To have a family. Yeah. But always reverting back to you old. The escape escapism, if you will, or the coping mechanism rather that not being in the moment, you're with your family, you're with, and you think, oh my God, I should be at work.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then you get to work and you go, you know, I should be over there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And with work, I've been fortunate. And this is where I give credit to the wonderful people I work with. Every time I went off the deep end mentally, for lack of better term, my staff was always there to kind of keep things going. I mean, I never turned my back 100% on them, you know, but many times where, as I said, I said a bit extreme, you know, either they're all there, you're not there at all. Yeah. And when you're not there at all, that's when you can get costly. So if you don't have the resort system.

[B]

Right. So, you know, lots of things going through my mind right now, different directions with could take this conversation. So it sounds like 2010 is when you really start to, like, you start to really evolve as a restaurant tour and say, I need to find balance.

[A]

I need to.

[B]

There's a better, smarter way to do this. Between 2000 or 1995 and 2010, were there any restaurants that you opened and closed?

[A]

Yes, there was.

[B]

You said five all together.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So how many did you other restaurants try to open, closed around that time?

[A]

Yeah. Well, that was my final mistake, my final ego trip, if you will. Speaking of egos, I took over a diner in Destin. It's called the Destin Diner. It's closed now. It's beautiful, you know, stainless steel building, tremendous atmosphere. This is where once more, eco gets in the way. I've always loved the look of a diner. There's a place in Atlanta that is no longer here, but was famous. It was called the Bucket Diner.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it married a diner atmosphere with the art deco look, the stainless steel, but with an uplifted menus that somewhat had elements of a diner, but very elevated. And that was my idea I was going to do out there. I got into that building completely ignoring the, the. The diner aspect of it. And here I am pedaling my chicken panee and my crab cakes, the thing I'm known for, you know, and the place of disaster, it just doesn't work right. And, and I just, at that point, it was the. My last time said, dude, stop trying to swim against the current. If you're gonna do a diner, do a diner. It's not a joke. It's not something simple like a barbecue restaurant, even a chicken wing kind of place. It's not easy. You have to really commit and really cater to the clientele that's in that Sometimes you can impose your will. Right. Enough talent and enough money, you can transform people's way of thinking. It's difficult. Yeah. And you know, so.

[B]

So, I mean, we got about 25 minutes left or about 35 minutes left together. And I really want to dial in on you kind of where you are today. But how you got to where you are today in terms of, like you said, like you really. Today you focus on labor costs, you focus on cost of goods. You're constantly working on those things. Would you say today you're. Are you operating as lean or as efficient as you've ever operated? Are you at your peak today or.

[A]

I think so.

[B]

Okay, so when did. When did things start to change? When did you start to be a different type of operator? Where you are today?

[A]

After these different experiences, these different restaurants that didn't work each time you learn and at some point you become more into the balance of your life. And, and I'd say right around the early 2010 is when it hit me after this diner that I did, I think was in fact in 2014, and it lasted until 2015.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Well, it was there 18 months, actually.

[B]

And after that you were just talking.

[A]

Yeah. That's when I promised myself that I will never make another decision business wise. That's based on simply the heart. Simply. I love the building. I love the art deco, whatever it is, that tootsie horn that makes your heart palpitate. To ignore that. Bring Kevin Bame again in the picture. He's told me also stories where he operated exactly like it. And I think by the time you. You've made that decision, for instance, right now, we're actually looking for something.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, because. Yeah, we are. My father's 84 years old. Still works. That's going to be me. There's no retirement in my book me. What I'm looking for is to slow down and to delegate even more, not stopping. I love the restaurant business.

[B]

I need to be, you know, and that. That is the retirement plan for a lot of restaurant owners is die. That is the retirement plan, you know, but, you know, there is things we. There are things we can do. And I hope that we can start sharing some of that stuff, like, you know, just build some systems and processes so that, like, maybe it's your next gen. Maybe it's a people that have been working for you for 15, 20 years that love the business, that would love to maybe take over the business, you know, like, but you need to be able to, like, put value to the business. And business cannot rely on the people behind it. I mean, the people behind it are what will make it successful. But it has to be able to be something that can be passed on or sold. Right? So how do we get to that point?

[A]

You know, and this is precisely. I was going to make that point. What up in The Red Bar, 1995. 1500 bucks a month or 5%, no overheads. I opened the business with $25,000. I was in business for 25 grand. Louis Louie opened in 2015. When we walked into this place, this was an established French restaurant where the owner, his wife got sick, he got older, just put the keys under them, didn't put the keys on their mat. He reached out to my father and said, would you be interested? We moved into this place, Brian, I'll tell you, salt and pepper shakers were on the table, the plates, stainless steel. The kitchen. All the infrastructure was done turnkey. Turnkey of the highest level. The rent was. This is 2010. It was five grand a month with no percentages. Wow. No percentages. So unless your deal is right.

[B]

210 seats.

[A]

210 seats, yeah. And ready to go. When I tell you the initial investment was a little bit more than the 1995 Red Bar. But it wasn't that much fun. And that's the key. That's the one advice I would give to any restaurateur. Do not get into a place where you are tied up with a big rent. There's a thing called triple net lease in the restaurant business. The worst deal, that's the deal that every landlord start to stick on operators. The triple net is your rent, your property taxes, and your insurance on the building. You know what I mean? Property taxes, that's on you, pal. Yeah, insurance, it's your building.

[B]

It's a property tax. They own it and they're making you pay the tax.

[A]

Correct. That's twist and then throw in a little percentage rent in there with a high base on the square footage, and you got you the perfect recipe to be working so hard for the man.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That if that's your passion, hey, all to you. And you got to start somewhere. But the financial burden is so great.

[B]

Well, here's the thing. When did people ever start talking about this stuff?

[A]

They don't.

[B]

Back then. No, you did. Like, there were no resources. Yeah. I mean, there was restaurant owner.com, which is an incredible resource. And they had spreadsheets and stuff like this. But what about the high executive level? Like how to make money in the restaurant industry? Not like in the details of inventory and costing and which is just as important, but the. Just how to see a good deal when it's on the table.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like that stuff. Like, so today, like, what is a good deal for you? Like, what are you looking for? What do you advise people to look for?

[A]

Yeah, us. I mean, we're at a point now it's either we find a deal similar to this with Stern Key, and it's a good spot. The good bones, good, you know, low cost, good party. Or you buy the property. If you can buy the property. So I often tell people I want to get in a restaurant busy if they're not chefs or matri Ds or what I say don't get in the restaurant business. Get in the real estate of the restaurant business. Be the landlord. Because if that restaurant goes under, at least you have some real estate to sell or to lease or to. It's very hard to sell a restaurant if you don't own the property. It's very difficult to sell because what are you buying? What are you buying?

[B]

It's an asset and it appreciates over time.

[A]

It absolutely does. Yes. Matter of fact, the real power is in that restaurant tour that succeed. All I've done. In conclusion, common. They. They own some sort of real estate.

[B]

Well, what's really cool right now. And here's the other thing too. I mean, so many things going through my mind right now. The restaurant owner has never really been the true beneficiary of the restaurant industry. There are so many. Like, the restaurants have historically been making other people rich. We go into a community, we go into a neighborhood. And these restaurants raise the value of that neighborhood more like. And then, you know, the. The property owners are like, this is great. Like, there's so much value in this. This neighborhood. Getting paid rent. My Appreciate my.

[A]

My.

[B]

My assets are appreciating. And, you know, the restaurant Owner doesn't get the good deal, you know, and there's so many adjacent industries that spur out of the restaurant industry where the restaurant owner. Again, now, these are.

[A]

These.

[B]

These adjacent industries become additional expenses for the restaurant owner. You know, it's. So we need to be aware of, like, what we're doing and how are we the beneficiary of our hard work or other people. People. And the only way we can get over this, this hump is by communicating to each other and saying collectively, should we or should we not do this because these other industries need our involvement, you know. Sorry, that was more of a.

[A]

No, no, no. I couldn't agree more with you. Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you. The conditioning is the opposite, though, right? The conditioning is the opposite. Conditioning is that, look, this is your big break. And we're so good at convincing ourselves when we see an opportunity, especially when we're building. Beginning. Yes, it's kind of a natural thing. You don't have any points of reference. You don't have confidence if you're not coached properly. If you're not, especially on the financial end of it, you can quickly find yourself in that position of, if I don't take this deal, there won't be anything else for me. And that's not a good place to be. I mean, that's a place of vulnerability and to set yourself up for failure, unless you can overcome, as I said, by the time you pay a higher end and you're paying insurance and property taxes, you got to sell a lot of entrees to cover those costs. Then you tell your managers, you name it all the other cost, and at the end of the day, and this is what the turnover is so high, you've worked, you've done all this, and you have lost money. Yeah, you're in debt. I mean, the shows are there to Kitchen Nightmare Restaurant rescue.

[B]

This episode is made possible by me's. Mies is a digital recipe platform that helps you stay creative, build profitable menus, and nail food execution at scale. Consistency builds trust with your. Your guest and your staff. No more messy spreadsheets or scattered systems. Whether they want to admit it or not, your team loves systems because systems equals peace of mind, because we all want to know what the job done right looks like. And me paints the picture of perfection and is the one source of truth for your entire team. By locking in recipes and training before service starts, ME makes sure every dish is consistent, every team member is aligned, and every location runs like clockwork.

[A]

So.

[B]

So when the report Rolls in after the sale. They tell the story you're after. Higher profits, better margins, and repeat guests. It's time to take control of your profitability. Learn more at www.getme.com unstoppable. That's G E T M E Z.com/unstoppable. There's a book out there I want to, I want to give a nod to. Oh, man, what's her. Cody Sanchez is her name, and she wrote the Main Street Millionaire. And in this book, she flat out says, do not try to purchase. So the whole idea behind this book, the Main Street Millionaire, is that there's a whole generation of boomers retiring. Right. And that there aren't. They don't have none of these. A big percentage of these individuals don't have succession plans. They don't have a plan for after retirement. So there's all these people who own properties across the country that you can go in and you can, and you can, can say, hey, like what? Like, I, like, let me work for you for a couple years and like, if things are good, if I like, or maybe a year or maybe I like the business, show me your numbers. Is it profitable? Then I can be your exit strategy. And like, we can work something out where the profit from the restaurant goes from to me paying you back for the asset. And there's. She says, do not go to restaurants because they're not a good investment. But if you're a restaurant person and that's what your passion in your life, the, the, the things she shares in that book are good way, like, are still hold true. But if you're, if you have zero restaurant experience, then don't go the restaurant path. But there are so many people across America who have successful bones like these, these, these, these restaurants, and there's opportunity to own the property is what I'm trying to say.

[A]

Yeah. And what's more, I think that all falls into your, Your timing, your. Your geographic location. If you happen to meet people that are in that position and they happen to find a certain affinity towards you and see the potential in you, in a way, that's a little bit what happened to me with the Red Barn, Green Beach. Yeah. I had all the will, I had all my little IDs. But the other landlords were like, who are you? Where's your. Where's your. The money? You're 25. Where's your experience? But I had one guy that took me under his wing and believed in me and saw the most important factor, the hard work. Yeah. And of course probably didn't have anybody better with on site. I might be giving him more credit. So clearly if there isn't a passion, because at the end of the day, what you're seeking, if making money and being successful at something is what you're seeking, I would say don't go in a restaurant business. There's other ways to do it. I mean, investing, who knows, real estate, I'm not sure, I'm not sure what, what, what's out there. But the restaurant business, from my experience, if you go in it with the idea to make money, you could be very disappointed. You must go in it with the idea of surviving, of making a living. And then if you play your cards properly and you manage things properly, you, you can make money. But if your goal is to make money, I think you're better off buying a Subway franchise, a system, buying something established. You know, you have restaurant business too. If you want to be in a privately owned business, it must be a level of passion. If you don't have a passion, you don't have the desire to show. Look, when we talk about ego, that's where my ego was kind of always. I want to show people a good time. Yeah. I want them to come and look at my pictures on the wall. I wanted someone to relate over that poster, you know, and then when he got his plate of food, like, oh my God, this is great. This is fresh music. We have live music at that other restaurant, some of the best music in town.

[B]

Yeah, My plan is to go there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's going to be open today.

[A]

Monday, seven days a week.

[B]

Oh, nice. I love it. So I'm definitely gonna go check, point that out. So a couple things going through my mind as you're talking, man. And you know, I think this idea of like, if you're going to get into the industry, you can get into this industry and make money, but if your sole ambition is to get rich, then, you know, I worry about that because, you know, you can do it, but at what cost? And I think that society almost deserves better, you know, like if you're going to be feeding people, is it going to be just this transactional thing that you scale or are you going to really be like at that point, can you really make an impact on individuals lives? Is there more of a transaction? Yeah, you know, you're, I'm talking about your staff, I'm talking about the communities. And there's a lack of transformal, transformative businesses out there that don't really have that path. I think that passion is key to our mental health, you know, And I think we. In a world that's so transactional, that's about the scale, about the money. Like, yeah, you're making money, but like, how are your relationships, you know, and does that level of passion or that, that maybe the relationships with the executives at the top is that trickling down to the very end user, is that same level of passion and care there for the person that's washing dishes at your 20 or 30th location? Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

And clearly that's. I wouldn't be able to answer that because we have two units, very proud of them. And the proudest accomplishment is that 30 years in one, 15 in the others under the same concept, the same. And as I said, having employees that have been with us or co workers that have been with us for that long, that's the most. It sounds a little bit cliche, but that's, you know, when you see them, when you leave work, come back to it, you see the people and you appreciate, appreciate that relationship that brings me a tremendous amount of happiness.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and then if you can marry that with success, you know, when we're serving a thousand dinners on a big night or, or we're having a real big evening or whatever service, you know, that that's, that becomes the success part. And you, I think constant, not constantly, but you, you juggle the two to marry the, to marry the two. At least for us, that, that's what spin. When we have our Christmas party every year, you know, to see everyone. We close both restaurants. We always get together here at the Red Bar. And you see, you know, we employ about 150 people year round between the two restaurants. And to see those faces, to see them. And I'm sure there's some employees, some co workers that go enough of this Belgian guy and all his motivational speech or whatever thing that might grind on them, you know, cliches that you use to keep people, you know, but for me, it's real. I always say when I look at everyone, the people I work with, all of them, I can say that if I was not in the, in the work environment, I could see myself spending the day on the boat with them, hanging out at the barbecue. They all have something on a human level that attracts me, that makes me feel good about them. And don't get me wrong, that we've had, and this is why we've had turnovers also. So I've had guys that were tremendous chefs, tremendous service bartenders, but human Touch wasn't there. Superior, abusive, you name entitled. And I don't care if you can sell me five grand behind the bar by yourself. If you're not a decent human, you're not gonna work, man. It's gonna shine through. And don't get me wrong, we've had time where we put up with some stuff. You don't wanna shoot yourself or cut your nose in spite of your face. Sometime is July and you got a couple of guys out there that just not with it, you know? Yeah, well, I mean, you don't let that fester. You don't allow that to become the culture.

[B]

Yeah. And I, I say this and I mean it. I believe that if we can change the restaurant industry, we can change the world. And I believe behind every great restaurant, it's a great person. And I think that really what I'm trying to do with these interviews is to share the values of the individuals behind restaurants. Because where does the restaurant owner go? So your job as a restaurant owner is to paint the picture of perfection for your team. To give them the tools to be. To paint that picture with a job done right. Looks like how to show up to be that rah rah person that gets people motivated, to lift people, to elevate people. Right. But where does the restaurant owner go to get elevated? Well, you know, where does that person go to get inspiration? And hopefully by making an example of people like you and realizing and re repositioning values and saying it isn't about how big you can get or how much money you can get, but it's about the relationship you can't lose. Relationships for money and impact and like the soul. I mean, I think we've gotten so far away from that. So like how, how did you get to where you are today in terms of like this, this, this. You figured it out?

[A]

Well, as I said, I mentioned earlier, I'm still trying to figure it out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And, and I'm working on it. I think by pacing yourself, pacing yourself particularly taking time off, taking that 24 hour arrows that we all have and try to manage it in the more optimal way. Yeah, that's what I work on.

[B]

So how does that look like?

[A]

Well, I'll tell you, for me, the thing that I love the most, you know, is that sometimes Friday night and I'll come into work or I don't even come in, sometime I'll call and I'll call my kids, key people, that's all. How's the day going? Great thing good. Team's tight, no drama. No weirdness. Good. Good. Everything's good. Great. Have a great service. And now you have that currency we talked about. Freedom. Yeah. You cannot go to a movie theater with the. With my wife. Yeah. Go take my kids on a Friday night to the amusement park or, you know, whatever activity that is not restaurant related to take the time and act upon it and be in the moment. Not. That's my. My commitment. My trying to be. And then it's not easy, man. Because. Yeah. Coping mechanism, man. I'm still struggling with that.

[B]

Yeah. Where is your business today to be able. So I think, you know, they say there's people dependent organizations and there's system dependent organizations. Are you leaning more towards the people or the system dependent operation?

[A]

Both.

[B]

So what's that. That split look like? What System systems.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like how did you build your people up and how did you build your systems up?

[A]

You know, Time. I mean, my brother and I often look back and say when we look at the early years, the stuff that went on, the behavior that went on, the. The disrespect from some co workers, even yourself, that to where you're not consistent with your. With your behavior, your management style as you progress. And especially we always joke at Christmas parties in the mid-90s to 2000 consisted of getting wasted, drinking, I'm not gonna lie, drugging, doing all kinds of stuff that we shouldn't have been because we were partying like crazy. Not our Christmas parties. You have 150 people that show up and about. I must say, 50% has children now. Yeah. And they're bringing their kids. We've all kind of matured with the business business. And we sustained some of these indiscretions, if you will, of the restaurant life. The stuff that Bourdin made so famous in that first book. You know, where he likes swashbuckling chefs back there. That snorting by the dumpster. I just wrote on his quote recently in Idea and I'm so good at doing that. He said, I. I knew I was in the right business when I saw the chef making out with the bride by the dumpster. Dude. Sorry, man. But no, that is not the right reason to be. Sounds fun. You know, at a certain age, live fast, die young. There's a little bit of that.

[B]

You're like, literally, like, correct. Can't die.

[A]

You know, and you're just gonna show them that you can do it. That was another thing that had these thoughts at one point. I can be a party guy and be a responsible owner.

[B]

So it's just a matter of Maturing and realizing what is most important. Right. I think society is maturing right now and I think that you're seeing a lot in the, the younger generation. People aren't drinking as much as they used to and health and wellness is more important than ever before. So I think that there's like this, this societal like evolution going on. Consciousness of people just being like, wait, what are we doing? Why are we doing this? A lot of that. Why we drink and party too. You think about the amount of influence with like media and marketing and like the, you know, the people like shoving this, this image of like, you know, it, that lifestyle.

[A]

You bet. You know, it's still prevalent. I think there's still a, you know, especially amongst the younger people, this idea that you have to be the wildest guy or be wild and crazy, it's a rite of passage. I mean, you're missing out. You have to be. But thankfully society, as you mentioned, change is changing that too. Yes, you can be wild and be a little crazy, but just don't be that guy. Don't become that, that, you know, cautionary retail. And, and I think clearly there's a shift in that to where, you know, you, you, if you want to evolve.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You have to acknowledge those things. I don't think on the right track that way.

[B]

What about your operations in terms of your systems today?

[A]

Like what?

[B]

Like training systems, processes, procedures, technology. How have you evolved in that front?

[A]

Yeah, for instance, you know, when we opened the restaurant, we had tickets. You wrote them on a piece of paper, turn them to the chef, bang the food out, and at the end of the night you kind of counted your money and then you looked in your cooler and maybe put a mark on your bottle of, of Jack Daniels back the next day. If you took a night off to see if the bartender we work with cost. We take inventor. Ladies that you met earlier. Every Monday, full liquor inventory.

[B]

So weekly inventory.

[A]

Weekly inventory for the bar.

[B]

And are you doing that yourself? Are you outsourcing that?

[A]

No, no, we do that ourselves. My brother and, and my great best friend Chuck Styles that work with us. The both of these guys are masters at squeezing a nickel out of a dime.

[B]

Yeah, and I was starting to kind of piece the. I try to piece it together and you know, I, I lean. I can tell you you're more the visionary, the entrepreneur, the, the, the front of house. What lane would you say you fall in like title wise? Your brother's numbers systems, processes. What are you?

[A]

Yeah, me, I'm more of the. I'm definitely you know, one, one thing that's for the most time off seems like the last 10 years is HR.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm an HR guy for sure.

[B]

Culture.

[A]

You better believe it. Yeah. Keeping the people, the morale up. We just had a meeting with the chef, you know, to where we're trying to control our kitchen cost, but at the same time continue keeping the morale up and providing a production friendly environment. Three equations there. So easy to cut on the cost. Cut the people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Instead of five cooks, put three of them. Yeah, but now what? The production suffers, customer experience suffers. Takes 45 minutes to get the food out. So it's a, it's a balance there once more of you as an operator to, to give you for instance an equation that we use when I make my skill schedule, every Sunday schedule comes out. If we're looking at 400 dinners that night, okay, the, the, the equation is 50 customers per waiter. Okay. Going against 400 dinners, I'm putting eight waiters on that night. I'm going to need two hostesses and one cashier. I'm going to need two food runners and one busboy fits under 200. You know, 50 per four waiters will do.

[B]

So that's your rule of thumb.

[A]

Exactly. And it's very accurate. It's a bit like a food cost sometimes a food cost. You can spend your whole day weighing out everything, all these spices and at the end of the day you're in that 30, 35%. After a while, when you've done this every week or every month, you kind of, for instance, with the liquor inventory, it's really for control purpose, but also for ordering purpose. You know, when you inventory liquor, you know, if you need, you know, I mean you're sick of a party sick. You got two, you order four. You know, at some point you don't need to weigh everything out and be to the millimeter close. This number is going to be consistent just like hey, what's amazing in the restaurant business, and I know most restaurants are, do that they said the first week of we're in April, we're in May here, the first week of May, if you serve whatever growth that you did, it's amazing accurate. The following year if you, you're going to be in that ballpark up or down 10%. There's a 10% leeway there. And as we go on the daily, we keep daily count. We're going against 300 Nairs on that Monday night. Yeah, well, by God, man, it's amazing. You're going to be. Sometimes there's A freak thing that happens. You're going to serve 500. Sometime you serve 150. Weather was bad, who knows? And we make notes. So in the computer, it pops up. Monday after Easter. We just had a thing. The Easter change. It's always a different year. Well, this Monday, we were looking at a lousy Monday lunch. And it got, they got rocked over there and they were like, dude, can someone pay attention to this? You know. Oh, sorry, man, I didn't. You know what I mean? Yeah, that science is really accurate.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you said, you said your, Your co. Your core focus is HR and like culture and holding people up. So how do you, like, what is your approach to elevating people? What advice do you have for lifting culture expectation?

[A]

Okay, one of my. One of my favorite things to say with the guys is let's say I've had this many a time. Once as my manager comes to me and they had a small rebellion. You know, we have a thing about being on time. Okay. You're late, you either end up on the. We have some stations that are. We do a drawing for stations to make it fair, you know, we divide the restaurant in the amount of people and 11 maxes, 13 waiters, minimum is four waiters. And we have different side work, assigned opening and closing duties, you know, and on time, important, you know. And I had a guy on. On late, you know, so I suspended him a week. And then we had a host. She. I mean, she was amazing. Beloved by everyone, but had a drinking problem. Okay, Shop for work, a little buzz. And I would grab her on the side. Come on, dang it. Stop this. Dry up, go home, come back at 7:30, you know, just always work with her. And at the front of the house, guy said, listen, man, you just suspended one of my waiters a week because he shows up late three times. And then you have your front of the house guy there was drunk and you kind of like sweeping it under rug. And I mean, I needed that. Come to Jesus, if you will too. I'm inconsistent in some of my decisions, right? And I'll tell you, Brian, I've to this day, there's a bit like the world. It's an inconsistent world out there. It's an inconsistent world. And I try to be consistent.

[B]

So what do you do to be more consistent?

[A]

Well, go directly to the source. In other words, if you got a guy that, let's say you're. The mopping is not being done properly, instead of having an employee meeting where we talk to everyone and say, guys, the Mopping's not being done here. We need some more commitment in the mind. And it sounds very trivial, you know, but that, my philosophy is that who's not mopping properly? Let's go to the source, let's go to the guy who's abusing the system. And you do that by communicating with the team member. And you have to also read between the lines because sometimes you got personal stuff going on. You go ask one of you, veteran, what do you think about this guy? He doesn't really like him. Because sometimes they don't gel.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they'll come up with stuff to bury them, you know. And I've also been fallen for that, you know, the human variable. Right, Correct. So you try to once more, the communication part, where you address the issues as they come, and they're the most important issue that day. And it could be something as trivial as mop in the floor, setting the table. Listen, at the restaurant, me, I served in the military in Belgium. It's a mandatory thing. Not that I learned everything from the military, but it was pretty, pretty regimented out there. And one thing we had, we had procedures for everything. Yeah. And at the restaurant, we have opening and closing side work. I mean, you should read this thing, Brian. They're so detailed out there. I literally say, turn on the water. Put this much water, this much bleach here. Well, with the mopping, to bring that back again, I had a thing on the wall. It was called the P. Proper Mopping method. The pmm. The proper mopping method. It became kind of a joke. Run the restaurant where it has its own little thing by the mop, its own little procedure. It'll be like, when you go to fast food restaurant, there's a picture of the, of the burger you're supposed to put out. Can you look at that picture? Yeah. Make sure that burger looks like that, you know.

[B]

What was the word you used when I asked you, like, how do you create that consistency or expectation? Expectation.

[A]

Expectation, yeah.

[B]

And I, I think, yeah. Earlier I said, you know, the, the job of a restaurant tour is to paint what the picture of the job done right. Looks like. Right. And you know, originally, if, when you're just getting started, you're the picture of what the job done right looks like. Yo, how you do the job is. The expectation is the reality. But eventually you have to replace how you do the job with the systems and processes. Right. And those. I think one way to think about this is I think restaurateurs think about, like, I need to create these systems for my staff. So my staff is consistent. But the reality is you create those standards and those systems and those, those systems for you. So, so you don't shift over time. So that is your expectation, that is your. If that's your goal, this is how you want things done. And the goal is actually do it better. Every day we can figure out a better way to do it. Then we update the systems and processes, but you have to set it. And you, you create those things to hold you accountable so that you don't drift, but then you can remove yourself and that those systems become.

[A]

You couldn't agree more. I mean, that, that's at. Is to this day, that's, it's very much. That's what we have regular meetings. That's why we have opening duties, closing duties, addressing the issues as they come off and say with the manager says, seems like we got a leak over there. We go fix that leak, and there's another one starting over there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And this is what's so easy to give up managing. I would say the restaurant business, in essence, is not complicated. It's actually very simple, very easy. You come in, cook a good plate of food, put on your good clothes, play a little music, light up a candle, show them a good time. It's like a dinner party. The hard part is to do it seven days a week, 365 days a year. That's where the thing falls. And this is why I think there's a high turnover, because it's unintimidating from the God's side of the business. He goes out to eat three times a week. Yeah, I know the restaurant business, man. It's fun. Every Friday when I go out there, I'll see Ollie running around or Kevin Bain, whoever's out there in his restaurant shaking hands. He's got the good shirt on, you know. Yeah, that's an aspect of it. But all the other stuff that you don't bring to the table, that can be disappointing when you get into the business. The abuse, the lack of making money, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the response from people sometimes, you know, as I said, restaurant has always been kind of known to attract, I would say marginal people, but let's just say colorful people that can be so committed, look you in the eye, be totally into what you're doing. Then they turn on you. They're, bless you, they're moving to another town and they dress the worst. You train them, you spend all that time on them, and then they drop you. They, they move, you know, which I get it.

[B]

You know, but at the same time, if you're not giving them that opportunity, then they're gonna find it.

[A]

You know, often say, keep your heart open. Yeah. Very much like in love, you get burned, and all of a sudden, I'm not loving again. Yeah. There's many restauranteur out there, they get real defensive because they've been burned by employees.go or for the competition, sometimes steal recipes and you get. Become hard and you become. That's one thing. And my father was essential in that. This guy, my dad is the best. I mean, this. He never sees the good. And when we get Barney, I was, huh? What just happened here? You address it. You sometimes even react. You. You try not to be the sucker and repeat the patterns, you know, but you don't let that influence who you are.

[B]

Right. You ask, what could I have done better?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Like what? You know. Right.

[A]

Come up with nice strategy that will allow you to not be set up in the same. And then you come up with that. There's another scenario that rolls up. I mean, it's kind of the. Not the beauty of it, but the challenge of it. As I was mentioning with the managers you have there, you raise a child, you tell, don't touch the. The, the burning flame. If you don't say it each time, he's gonna go put his hand in there. Yeah. Not comparing restaurant workers.

[B]

I still do that. Whenever I say, you got it.

[A]

Some people need to get burned, and others, yeah, they're enough saying, listen, it's hot, it's gonna burn you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and I think by doing that, keeping your heart open, believing in people, pretty soon you create a culture. And that's a thing that I've never heard of back in my days, culture. And that's a big thing these days, the culture of the operation. I know Kevin Bain works very hard on that 2,000 employees. He said, dude, why don't we have meeting now? You know, I can't be in 37 restaurants, you know.

[B]

Right. Yeah. I mean, culture is huge. What does the future look like for you? And how do you build. How do you plan on continuing to build this culture as you scale? And like, what. What is the vision of the culture you want going forward?

[A]

Yeah, to continue to continue the mission. And, and as I say, marrying culture and, and growth. And it's not easy because.

[B]

Continue what?

[A]

Well, as I mentioned, you know, with their staff, and that's the problem that every operator encounters is at some point, no matter how well you treat the people you work with, they Expect more financial rewards. They want some growth and a business. If, let's say you, you do a certain amount of sales, it's difficult to increase them. Short of adding a day of the week, maybe adding a service, open breakfast perhaps or open late night, who knows? You know, you have to find a way to grow your business in order to grow with your staff. That's one of the reasons why we got in trouble. Not in trouble, but we felt that we needed to do that and we rushed into some, some, some decision trying to grow the business and also satisfy the ego to, you know, other concepts, other venues that you like. For whatever reason, it'd be a diner or whatever it might be. So is that to marry the growth and marry the culture and the growth has got to be for us, if we cannot buy the property, we're likely not interested or it has to be, as I said, a deal that's just too good to turn down because we get offers quite regularly. Yeah, got a spot, got a, you know, so.

[B]

Well, I mean that's the thing. When you put your energy into doing what you're already doing better the opportunities come to you. But then it's. Is this the right opportunity, Opportunity for us?

[A]

Clearly.

[B]

And I think one thing that from paying attention to what you've shared so far, you know, I think you might have said it off air, but Louise, Louise is like the, you know, spitting image of Red Bar. It's the same brand, different name. And I think you found out you, you know what your culture is, you know, your identity, you know the kind of place you want to build. And now you're trying to find places that work for who you are and what you're trying to do. Does it fit into that mold? Is this us is what you ask yourself?

[A]

It does. Because we know one thing also we've come to realize is that this is what we know, this approach to dining. Yeah. Sort of an hybrid of a, of a bar, pub, slash more upscale type restaurant. But casual, family friendly.

[B]

Hair down.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Hair long, hair down.

[A]

You bet. Chef inspired. You know, the, the, the, the concept when, when the recession was on in 2000, 2008, when he started going down, there was this phenomenon called bistronomy to where you had these chefs that were out of work, that fine dining was really suffering because obvious reason, the economy. These guys reinvented themselves as you know, in a very bistro, very casual environment. These guys that were Michelin starred or worked in these high end restaurant, breaking down the food to a more approachable way, but yet still be making stocks. And I think that concept still alive today. Just like being a place when you got to eat. Clearly you don't just go to nourish yourself. You go for the experience. 100 and I think that that's something that sometimes overlooked. Especially the chef tends to get in the way of that. You know. Yeah, the chef's ego sometimes can get in the way. I'm going to impose my will. This is how I serve young restaurant. I don't have salt and pepper on the table. Hey man, I get it.

[B]

Honestly, I blame the media. I think that the media for a long time told the consumer what the expectation should be and what. And I think the chef started to believe the media too.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

And we got away from what it means to be a restaurateur. It's about the relationships. It's about the connection. It's about the people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And 100 it's not. I mean food is important. It's a part of the experience, but it is not the experience.

[A]

That's absolutely correct. Often say if you have a restaurant where the food is good, it has to be good. You cannot do bad. I mean, this is not right. You know, you just can't do bad. You know, but sometimes you can do not the greatest. But if your bartender is great, your matri is great, you have connections that you can show up with a party of 15.

[B]

Are you having a good day, having.

[A]

A good experience, you will probably have a better chance of success. Succeed100 having a brilliant guy that has, you know, that's not flexible and that, you know, so.

[B]

So the mission statement is to inspire power and transform them. The industry.

[A]

How?

[B]

I mean, where. Where are we going? Like, if there's a future, like there's an intentional future that we can all desire. Like, what does that better future look like?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For you?

[A]

Well, I think. I mean, I'm gonna sound like fully satisfied. I mean, I'm satisfied where I'm at at this point, this juncture in my life. 55 years old. I work with my father, I work with my brother. I work with my children that are very invested in the restaurant business. I have long lasting relationship. So I mean, I'm just trying to not coast, but to continue, you know, the up and upward or downward motion. I'm trying to be more consistent and more, you know, leveled.

[B]

If you will balance back to what we were saying. Yeah. An expectation. I think that's something that the industry could be better about, is finding balance.

[A]

And.

[B]

And, you know, really defining what does success look like.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So what about on a personal level? How are you? How is Ollie a better man today than the man he was when he got started in this industry?

[A]

Yeah, you know, I, I, I've been. It's funny because I got married last year and my girlfriend and I was number four. No, no, it was with my second marriage, really was the first one we were married. This, my second wife with whom I I work with, she's actually involved in this restaurant. Yeah. She and my two children that I with her work in a restaurant were very good friends. She started her life over. Yes, I could actually. It's one thing I'll take credit for, to make a, make a divorce work. You know, my girlfriend and I have been together for 13 years and she's, we're the same age, you know, so there was never even any talk of marriage. But after 13 years I felt like I wanted her to be my wife. I wanted to, to be started say my girlfriend. And I'm proud of that. I love my wife and we're great friends. We are very complimentary. We travel together, we spend a lot of time together and myself being more balanced. I'm spending more time with, with my family now. You know, my kids are grown. I'm a grandfather. After this, I'm going to pick up my granddaughter. Yeah. She's three years old. So, so for me personally, I feel like I've been very fortunate that way to, to. I've had some tough lessons, of course, but along the way I've maintained my focus on, on what I set out to do, which was that to uplift the people I work with, impress my customer with what I offer. Yeah. And, and sustain.

[B]

So what is one thing about your restaurants, whether it be a service, a center service, you know, that is truly unstoppable, that you can, you know, share with us today.

[A]

Yeah, well, you know, if you, if you can keep, keep your eyes on the prize, which is the quality and the consistency be. You know. One of the best advice I ever got was a gentleman named Joe Cannon I mentioned earlier that got me into the, he used to, when I worked in that restaurant in Grayton beach where the Red Bar is today, that French chef, he had the philosophy of everything under the moon. Tacos, steak, Dover sole and chateaubriand. He wanted to please everyone. And sometimes finding an identity, like specializing in something, you know, it could be, I mean, him, he would use the example of a hot dog joint in Birmingham that was doing hot dogs to go and he would sell them literally about A hundreds and people line up in front of his. He says, man, that hot dog was so good. Cooked just right. His buns were nice and soft. His sauces were clean. He was efficient. He had a good cold soda to sell you with it. And you could sit there and have a beer and eat on this. Big point I'm making is that find something you're good at, focus on it and try not to be something you're not. If someone comes to. So people come to the restaurant say, oh man, you don't have a steak on your menu. Man, I love red meat. You know, steaks are good. Pretty soon you say should I have a steak for the guy that loves my steak? Yes. But then make sure that that steak you have a great source for it. Make sure that it becomes a special to focus on finding an identity. I think it's more important than ever because if you. You're trying to do too much as to store main restaurant. Yeah anyone. And you're going crazy losing money, losing.

[B]

Profit with all this beautiful advice, man. Beautiful advice. Great stuff. Listen to that. And this is the last question before we have you call somebody out when you officially wrap up. If you got the news you'll be leaving this world tomorrow. All the memories of you your work in your restaurants be lost with your departure with the exception of three pieces of wisdom you can leave behind for the good of humanity and for your legacy. Those three pieces of wisdom be number one.

[A]

Number one would be your report with the people. What. What, what. What do you leave behind with the relationship? Yeah. Did you leave a good impression where you. Did you treat people fairly?

[B]

That's number one.

[A]

Number one. Number two, did you did. Were you consistent. Were you there? Were you consistent with your. And not just the food. Your behavior once more your treatment of others Others. Your. Your reports. Yeah, number three. And it kind of falls back into the first. Yeah. And number three, to be honest with you, you know.

[B]

Let me guess. Relationships, Consistency.

[A]

Yeah, relationship man. I mean that me. I mean it's my security. It's about an insecurity from childhood. I don't know. You know, you won't be liked.

[B]

I put that.

[A]

I really took that to heart, man. When I was little I was always. I was never ostracized. I was friendly with everyone. I didn't have, you know some. Sometimes you grew up. You. Whatever. There's a reason why people make fun of you and it not me, man. I was always a pop. Somewhat of a popular God I was at fre. But I just always wanted to be happy. Yeah. Be happy and have people around me that. That spring some joy with them, you know?

[B]

I love it, man.

[A]

From there, try to build.

[B]

Ollie, thank you so much for making time for me today. Sharing your story, sharing your knowledge, and your mentorship. I like to wrap up every episode. This is really my North Star. I don't want to be the one who decides who should be made an example of. I really want my guest to tell me, who do they respect and admire in the industry? Who's doing it right? Who's taking care of their staff? Who's growing and doing it sustainably? Who's making money and is like an operational. Like. Like who for you? The. I know you're a huge fan of Kevin. Bam, right? Who else is out there like Kevin that you just admire and you think I should get as a guest on the show? That's how I found you.

[A]

Oh, good at you. You know? You know, I'll tell you, man. I mean, I could. I will throw my father. I mean, my dad's 84 years old, and he's an example, an inspiration for anyone that thinks that, you know, you're to a certain age and you have to slow down. My dad, to this day, if you spoke with him, he probably has more. I know he has more enthusiasm than I do. Yeah. Guy's unbelievable.

[B]

Where's he. Where's he hanging out these days?

[A]

You know, he's. He's. He's here. You know, he's working this weekend.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Oh, yeah, he works well.

[B]

I'd love to get him on the show.

[A]

Yeah. You know what? And he'd be delighted to. To speak with you. And you will learn about. You would understand where I come from very much by spending time with him. Because me, he's the guy. That's my Northstar. Him. And then Kevin B. I mean, like I said, the buddy that always welcome back on the show, Kevin is a master. Robert St. John, man, put that guy in air. These guys are a tremendous success. And. And they're kind. They're. They'll be loved by their employees. You talk to their staff. That. That's really a teller. When you talk to employee when the owner is not there and you say, come on, it's just you and I. Tell me about this guy.

[B]

I'd love to get him on. And how can we connect with you if we enjoy today's conversation? Maybe we want to come work for you. What's the best way to connect?

[A]

Yeah. You know, I'll tell you once more. The culture is that we hire from within. We haven't hired someone walking up the street in so long. It's always someone that knows someone because this gig is good. And when a position comes open, they start talking. And oftentimes we even start with them. We'll go, hey guys, we'll season's coming. We're going to need a couple of whatever position.

[B]

What if we just want to reach out to you. To follow up on today's conversation, we.

[A]

Have another owner out there on social media. You can reach us at Red Bar 95. Red Bar 95 on, on Instagram and, and, and, and the Red Bar on Facebook.

[B]

And I just cannot do what I do without people like you, Ollie, coming on. Sharing your knowledge, your perspective, your wisdom, your values. There is no question, my man, you are unstoppable. Thank you so much.

[A]

Thanks for having me, Brian.

[B]

If today's episode stirred something in you, if you're feeling a little unstoppable, you're not alone. Join us at Restaurant Unstoppable Network where we are guiding restaurant owners to proven experts, tools and services based on real world success stories. You'll get access to my network of restaurant owning mentors, hand picked industry experts and organically referred vendors. You'll get access to these individuals through workshops, power hours, touring sessions and product demonstrations. Multiple events, live events every week. You'll get access to me twice a month where I'll answer any of your questions. And you get access to all the recordings through RU network podcast, early access ad, free bonus content, all pushed directly to your phone. Plus the Unstoppable, our closed source AI tool fed with over 2400 hours of transcripts from the best in the biz and all future conversations that we have, whether that be bonus content or episodes, all fed to the AI. Daily access to our private Facebook group and I think this is the coolest part, the ability to influence future content here at Restaurant Unstoppable. Your problems are my priority. Look, you don't have to do it alone. As a matter of fact, you will go further if you go together and you are the average of those you surround yourself with in that Restaurant Unstoppable network, you're surrounding yourself with the best. Head over to restaurantstoppable.com live if you want all this, including the live events and if all this sounds appealing but you don't really want access to join us live, then just head over to restaurantunstoppable.com R U library.