1224: Three Elements that Define Excellence with Rudy Miick, Part 2

Summary

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Restaurant Unstoppable with Eric Cacciatore

Episode 1224: Three Elements that Define Excellence with Rudy Miick, Part 2
Release Date: October 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

In the second installment of this three-part workshop series, host Eric Cacciatore welcomes back renowned consultant Rudy Miick, Founder and President of Miick Companies. The episode explores the dynamic topic of Cartman’s (Karpman’s) Drama Triangle and how conscious communication can elevate restaurant teams beyond drama into cultures of excellence. Emphasizing actionable insights, Rudy breaks down the drama triangle’s roles (rescuer, persecutor, victim), explains the pitfalls for hospitality teams, and presents strategies to turn intention into results through purposeful, present-focused communication.

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Main Discussion Topics & Insights

1. Living “On Purpose” as a Leadership Mantra

(05:13 – 08:39)

• Rudy Miick’s Success Mantra:
  • “Be on purpose.”
  • Rudy signs off all correspondence with “Be well, be on purpose.”
• Why It Matters:
  • In turbulent times—political, economic, or otherwise—success comes from leading and acting intentionally, guided by purpose and values.
  • “Sometimes, to be louder, I need to be quieter. I need to be more intentional.” (06:39, Rudy Miick)

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2. Setting the Stage: Three Elements from Part 1

(08:39 – 10:52)

• Recap of part one: vision, values, and purpose as foundational tools.
• Today’s focus: Cartman's Drama Triangle and conscious communication as tools to “remove drama” and build healthy, high-performance cultures.
• Preview of Rudy’s upcoming “Power Hour” sessions.

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3. Introducing Cartman’s (Karpman’s) Drama Triangle

(10:52 – 18:00)

• Background:
  • Developed by Dr. Stephen Karpman (not Cartman), an MD, to describe passive-aggressive, victim-perpetrator-rescuer dynamics in relationships.
• The Triangle:
  • Inverted triangle with roles of Rescuer (Enabler), Persecutor (Controller/Villain), Victim.
• Why It Matters:
  • These roles show up in the workplace and personal life, preventing effective communication, engagement, and growth.

“The more intentional I can be in my communication, the more effective my performance will be.”
— Rudy Miick (11:38)

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4. Deep Dive: The Roles within the Drama Triangle

(18:00 – 39:00)

• How Roles Cycle:
  • Example: The “A+ Player” volunteer who covers every shift eventually burns out, becomes resentful, and unwittingly creates cycles of dependence and dysfunction.
  • Volunteering morphs from Rescuer to Victim.
  • Managers may exploit this cycle or perpetuate it through neglect.

Rescuer (“Hero/Enabler”)

• Always “saving the day,” taking extra shifts, or handling problems for others.
• Origin in childhood: The “good kid” seeking approval or love by helping.
• Downside: Others become dependent, enabling learned helplessness.

Persecutor (“Controller/Villain”)

• Often a boss or promoted employee who blames others, gives unclear direction, expects “common sense.”
• “Controllers” often rotate into the victim role if challenged and back into rescue if unappreciated.

Victim (“Doormat”)

• Person habitually justifying missed work, lateness, mistakes with excuses.
• Attracts rescuers and sparks persecutor reactions.

“There’s no good position. I don’t want to be in the triangle anywhere. Stephen will say that time and time again.”
— Rudy Miick (28:13)

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5. Recognizing and Avoiding the Triangle

(39:00 – 50:00)

• Drama signals:

  • Stories about the past or worries about the future: “Yesterday…”, “Last year…”, “What about next week?”
  • Absolutes and blaming: “Always”, “Never”, “Everyone”, “No one”, “They…”, “It’s their fault…”

• Drama is “high RPM, like a truck in two-wheel drive stuck in the mud, spinning its wheels, going nowhere.” (38:05, Rudy Miick)

• Staying out of the triangle:

  • Teach everyone, from dishwasher to C-suite, about the triangle.
  • Use real-time triggers: When you hear drama cues, pause and ask, “Are we in drama?”
  • Redirect to the present moment: “What can we do right now?”

“The goal is not to be in the triangle…Get present.”
— Rudy Miick (40:38)

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6. Tools for Conscious Communication

(54:17 – 66:25)

• Conscious Communication:
  • Trademark structure developed by Miick, integrating the drama triangle, Miick’s “safe space” protocols, and external works (Patty Wilson).
  • Three pillars: Karpman’s Triangle, Miick Safe Space, additional authorship (not detailed here).

Practical Tools:

1. Collective “I” Leadership:
   • Speak from within the group (“We greet every guest…”) rather than dictating from outside (“You need to…”).
   • “I need each of us on the team to greet every guest…” (55:01, Rudy Miick)
2. Staying Present:
   • Address issues happening now, not past/future stories.
   • Ask: “What can we do right now to deal with this?”
3. Intention and Impact:
   • Leaders should name their intention, then check the impact:
     • “What are your takeaways?”
     • Adjust based on team feedback for clarity and effectiveness.
4. Losing Pronouns:
   • Use names or inclusive language (Tommy, Bob, ‘each of us’) instead of “they/them/he/she/it” to personalize and avoid depersonalization.
5. Ownership of Experience:
   • Recognize that everyone has their own “truths” based on life experience.
   • Invite diverse perspectives to build collective solutions.

“If I can use proper nouns, names…we speak to the audience we’ve got in hand by name.”
— Rudy Miick (47:47)

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7. The Power of Tone and Nonverbal Communication

(67:33 – 70:49)

• Communication is:
  • 7% words,
  • 35–45% body language,
  • The rest is tone.
• Leaders must embody positivity, enthusiasm, and clarity—these nonverbal cues are more influential than words.

“In order to restore souls, we need to support each other by being present, using the tools in communication.”
— Rudy Miick (68:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• 06:29 – “Sometimes to be louder, I need to be quieter.” — Rudy Miick
• 08:39 – “It’s very rare that anybody gets to greatness by accident.” — Rudy Miick
• 28:13 – “There’s no good position. I don’t want to be in the triangle anywhere.” — Rudy Miick
• 38:05 – “Drama...is like a truck in two-wheel drive stuck in the mud, spinning its wheels at high RPM, going nowhere.” — Rudy Miick
• 44:14 – “This is being in a gain mindset. What can we do today?...How can we take action now?” — Eric Cacciatore
• 45:38 – “Here are some triggers...we are likely in drama. So the way to pose this...Are we in drama? Could this be drama?” — Rudy Miick
• 55:01 – “I need each of us on the team...” (on collective ‘I’ leadership) — Rudy Miick

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 05:00 Rudy’s mantra: “Be on purpose”
• 10:52 Introduction to Karpman’s Drama Triangle
• 18:00 Cyclical roles: Volunteer-to-victim example
• 24:25 – 34:00 Role-by-role breakdown: Rescuer, Persecutor, Victim
• 39:00 How the drama triangle shows up day-to-day
• 44:14 “Gain” mindset and staying present
• 47:13 Language and pronoun triggers for drama
• 54:17 What is conscious communication?
• 55:01 Collective “I” example for leaders
• 62:28 Checking intention versus impact
• 67:33 Importance of tone, energy, and non-verbal communication
• 71:10 Teaser for Part 3: Integrating all elements for high-performance brands

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Episode Takeaways

• Drama happens when we fall into unconscious roles—rescuer, persecutor, victim—often out of habit, not malice.
• Awareness is the first step; then practice presence.
  • Call out drama triggers, ground the conversation in the present, and move to action.
• Lead by example with conscious language and collaborative focus.
  • Shift from “boss” to “coach.”
  • Foster a collective mindset: “We,” “Each of us.”
• Communication is mostly about how you show up;
  • Your words matter less than your tone and body language.
• Bonus Insight:
  • Open book management and shared success foster teams that play to win together, echoing Rudy’s decades of practical experience and Tom Brady’s leadership style.

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Closing & How to Connect

Rudy Miick’s Contact:

• Email: [e-mail]
• Phone: [phone]

Next Episode Preview:
Part 3 brings together vision, values, purpose, Karpman’s Drama Triangle, and conscious communication to build high performance brand experiences and team cultures.

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For early access to all three parts:
Visit restaurantunstoppable.com/mick
Join the community and access group coaching:
restaurantunstoppable.com/live

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“You go further when you choose to go together. And we’d love to have you come with us.”
— Eric Cacciatore (74:12)

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Transcript

[Eric Cacciatore]

You hear me say it all the time. Our mission is to inspire, empower and transform the industry. We inspire with stories, we empower with.

[Brian]

Knowledge and perspectives and we transform with community.

[Eric Cacciatore]

And that's what's happening over at Restaurant Unstoppable Network.

[Brian]

And the live events are worth showing up for. October is the month to sign up for RU Live.

[Eric Cacciatore]

We have so many great things happening. So we.

[Brian]

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[Eric Cacciatore]

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[Brian]

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[Eric Cacciatore]

Have some of the most badass experts making themselves available, whether that be monthly or quarterly.

[Brian]

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[Eric Cacciatore]

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[Brian]

Every other week with the CEO of.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Restaurant Assistance Pro, Fred Langley. We have a leadership strategy Culture Power.

[Brian]

Hour with the founder of Mick Companies, Rudy Mick. We have a Bar Operations Power Hour with the founder of Bar Metrics, Sean Fincher. We have a front of house and back of house operations Optimization Power Hour with former Cornell profess Stephanie Robson. And we have an EOS Power Hour with eos, the entrepreneurial operating system integrator Blake Winters. And we have a profit first, Power Hour with the author of Profit first.

[Eric Cacciatore]

For restaurants, Casey Anton.

[Brian]

I have done the hard work of.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Finding out what it takes to become unstoppable.

[Brian]

And guys, the answer is people.

[Eric Cacciatore]

It's about relationships, it's about community.

[Brian]

And I'm putting together this amazing group.

[Eric Cacciatore]

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[Brian]

The best in the industry.

[Eric Cacciatore]

42 doll a month is all it takes to surround yourself with these incredible individuals. We'll see you there. Head over to restaurantstoppable.com live.

[Brian]

Welcome to Restaurant Unstoppable. For 10 years and over 1,000 episodes I've been traveling the country chasing word of mouth leads and having in person only long form discussions with the industry's finest owners and operators. Our mission is to inspire, empower and transform the restaurant industry by bridging the gap between this generation's leaders and the next. Listen to today's guests and so many others and get one step closer to becoming unstoppable. This episode is made possible by me. M is a digital recipe platform that helps you stay creative, build profitable menus and nail food execution at scale. We know to scale you need consistency because consistency builds trust with your guests and your staff. We all want to know what the.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Job done right looks like.

[Brian]

And when you have systems, your systems are a picture of perfection, of what that job done right is. And that puts us to peace. We are so happy when we know.

[Eric Cacciatore]

We'Re doing a good job.

[Brian]

Me will be the one source of truth for your entire team. It's time to take control of your profitability. Learn more at www.getmes.com unstoppable that's ww.G-E-T m e z.com unstoppable do you wish you could have all of your restaurant needs and solutions under one roof?

[Eric Cacciatore]

Well, you can.

[Brian]

It's called Restaurant Systems Pro. And with Restaurant Systems Pro you get accounting systems, budgeting systems, costing systems, purchasing systems, inventory management systems, labor management systems, training systems, and systems to create and implement checklists. And on top of all this, Restaurant Systems Pro has their own native general ledger and they're in the process of launching their own pos, which they are so appropriately naming serve because that's exactly what they do. To learn more, head over to Restaurant Unstoppable.com RSP where you can schedule your own demo, watch a demo that I did with Restaurant Systems Pro CEO Fred Langley, or catch every and all testimonial we've ever recorded on the show. That's restaurantunstoppable.com RSP this episode is made possible by US Foods. And did you know US Foods is hosting the Food Fanatics 2025 event at the Mandalay Bay Resort in Las Vegas, Nevada. It's all going down between August 19th and 20th. This is going to be one you do not want to miss. I'm going to be there. I want you to be there. Here's what you got to do. And the clock is ticking, so do not delay. Register now at www.usfoods.com food fanatics2025 or just go to usfoods.com and look for.

[Eric Cacciatore]

The banner with excitement. Allow me to introduce to you today's guest back for part two of our three part series on the three elements that define excellence. Founder and President of the MC Companies, Rudy Mick, my man, are you feeling unstoppable today?

[Rudy Mick]

I am. Radically unstoppable.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Radically unstoppable. I love it. And you're no stranger to Restaurant Unstoppable and how we pop off every episode. So let's get that motivational inspirational ball rolling with a success quote or mantra. What do you got for us?

[Rudy Mick]

Be on purpose.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Oh, consistent. I think I've definitely heard you say that.

[Brian]

Was that what you said last week too?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yep.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Yeah it is. I mean, echo it one more time. Why is that so important?

[Rudy Mick]

So being how do I be in every activity? Purposeful? How do I be well, how do I be connected? How Do I be on purpose with intention? Especially at this point in our life cycle, in our history and our political climate, in our economic situation, how do we be intentional? So that mantra carries with me daily. How do I be on purpose? For those folks that get emails or correspondence from me in any sort of tech, I sign off with be. Well, be on purpose.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Well, yeah, I love that. And it's weird because we live in a world where I feel like there's so many people who have their intentions, they have their agendas, and to show up and to supersede, to overcome, to be louder than the noise that's out there. What does that take?

[Rudy Mick]

You know, I. I love your question. And sometimes to be louder, I need to be quieter.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Okay.

[Rudy Mick]

I need to be more intentional. I need to speak with, listen and come in.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

I love that.

[Rudy Mick]

Well, this is so a good segue, I think, from our last week's power hour, where we looked at purpose and values and vision, this is all the more reason to really understand purpose and then the values that guide us to a vision that we really inspire to. So today's power Hour, I think you and I are going to be building on that. But the intentionality of where am I going with my company, with my team, with my restaurant? What are the values that guide us on a daily basis about quality, about execution, about our profitability, about our prime costing. That intentionality allows me to not just be a maitre d or not just be a boss, but actually work. To be intentional about being an inspiration, being a guide, a coach, using values to achieve that sort of vision. And especially in times like now, that's where performance shows up. In my experience, instead of watching recessions hit us or bad economy or politics or whatever it might be, when I'm clear and disciplined and intentional, I hit my numbers, my team's inspired. We've defined what excellence in our plate presentation is in our numbers, in our communication. And today, I think in our power hour, where we're headed with what I'll call drama, right? Or conscious communication. The more intentional I can be in those places, the more powerful we end up being. Even if we're quiet.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

The thing is, when you do the things that we discussed last week and what we're going to discuss today and next week, um, when we do, when the world does get topsy turvy, when the recessions do hit, when we do come across hard times, whether that be a pandemic or whatever, it's the people that do this stuff that, you know, those. Those issues for Other people, they could be mountains to get over. But for you, if you start doing this stuff today, it's just a speed bump. You get over, it's nothing because you're, you're operating like with excellence daily, regardless of the economic, political, whatever, environmental landscape.

[Rudy Mick]

I would agree. And it's very rare that anybody gets to greatness by accident. Yeah, right. Just kind of plodding along. I mean, I watch your show and the audience that's out there listening and watching is, is seen. You evolve restaurants unstoppable over a period of time, very choicefully. The same thing with any one of our businesses, any one of our concepts. The more.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So anyway, so as Rudy alluded, this is a part two of our three part workshop series. If you do not catch episode 1222. We discuss vision, values, purpose and how to use these things as tools. How they overlap with things like strategy. And I think we talked about strategy, structure and culture and how, how all these things intermingle and connect and how we leverage them as tools. Today we're talking specifically about Cartman's Dr. Triangle and conscious communication. I can't wait to get into it. And Rudy keeps on referring to today's session as a power hour. And this is, this is actually a workshop, but he is, that is a great teaser because he is going to be hosting, I think we said, either a monthly or a quarterly power hour. So if you're enjoying what he is dropping on you today and you want more of Rudy Mick, you can get it. At least we're one hour. I haven't, I don't think we've locked it in yet. I think we're gonna do a month or a quarterly recurring live event where it's going to be a power hour. We dive into this guy's experience and knowledge and he's going to drop mentorship on you. But today we're going to get into Cartman's drama triangle. Conscious capitalism set it up for us.

[Rudy Mick]

Rudy sounds great. Well, with communication, not unlike our intro just a few minutes ago about being intentional with all the things that we have moving in our workplace or frankly just in our daily lives at home, communication, I think, I believe is the primary. How so? We have tools, we have tech, we have AI, we have recipes, we have all of this tool set around us. Some of us have million dollar kitchens, some of us have remodeled bare bones.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

Whatever we've got, how do we be intentional? And our communication, what we've found, what my background is, has brought me academically from the world of Gestalt from psychology, behavioral psychology from the world of work. I the more intentional I can be in my communication, the more effective my performance will be. So if we've defined excellence and then I can coach it with my communication, we can get through again, good times, hard times, happy conversations, tough conversations. There are actually what we've found over about 15 years of research with thousands of clients, personal lives as well. Academically, we've found that there are communication tools, regardless of language, regardless of cultures, that work to create contact, connection, engagement and loyalty so that performance can skyrocket no matter what my training budget is, no matter what my concept is. So that's the, that's the background of why conscious communication and then Stephen Cartman's work around what we'll call and what he's called for decades, drama, victimhood, passive aggressive behaviors in the workplace or privately dealing with that kind of stuff in a way again that we can consciously step into without judgment. Maybe the most two powerful tools that support purpose, values and vision in my company. So that's where we're headed and this tool set that we're going to share. One last statement. We train this to any client. We work. We bring communication tools as a structure to that strategy, structure, culture piece that we were talking about in episode one.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So you didn't come up with Cartman's drama triangle, obviously that was Mr. Cartman.

[Rudy Mick]

No, that. Yeah, exactly. Stephen Cartman is design, is the designer of the Cartman drama triangle.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Go ahead, let's get into that. What is that tool? Share that tool with us.

[Rudy Mick]

Well, in our work I really appreciate the authorship, the IP if you will, of any creator. So I make it an intentional part of our tool set within conscious communication to name the creators of the tools. So Stephen Cartman is a medical doctor still alive, first published this structural triangle. It's an inverted isosceles triangle that is was first published in the early 70s and there are three parts to it. Anybody that on the air that's watching or listening. If you google Stephen Cartman with pH, you'll find five or six hundred pages of his original work and then myriad variations of his tool set. So Stephen is a medical doctor, not a Ph.D. and he came up with this triangle to look at in the early 70s. Various abuse in culture, passive aggressive behavior, true persecution, what he calls controller, persecutor, perpetrator, a victim which is in the bottom of the triangle and rescuer, Sometimes in the 12 step world called an enabler. The diagram and the tool is so simple that it just works that said, in today's culture around the concept of safe space, meaning I don't feel safe, so I'm not going to talk about this or the real world of folks that have been victims of some abuse or some car wreck or illness or some hazard. There is a tendency in many cases in the. In our current culture, especially in the United States, that I don't want to talk about this stuff. What I find is actually the opposite.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

So. So that. How do we actually step into perhaps habits, rough patches in our lives that get in the way of contact with other human beings or high performance? So the model works really, really well.

[Eric Cacciatore]

I'm happy you're bringing this up.

[Rudy Mick]

Go ahead.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Because sometimes I. I get a side eye when I bring up this topic of what I think. What you're describing is. We are encouraged not to talk about things that cause drama because that is considered to be unprofessional.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Eric Cacciatore]

What is professionalism? Professionalism is keeping it very blah and very bland at the, at the fear of not offending somebody in creating an outlier or something like you have to be very. Got to keep your thoughts to yourself. You don't want to talk about politics, religion, all this stuff. And there's some truth to that. But you also don't want to avoid hard conversations at the expense or at the fear of being unprofessional. I think we need to encourage people to talk about hard things.

[Rudy Mick]

Well, yes, yes, yes. And especially when we can couple the drama triangle, which I again, Cartman calls his work, the Cartman drama triangle. So I, in honor of the ip, I'm holding to that title. Lots of different dialogues or titles. We could name it, but that is the original title of the work. And an example of this is. And I, I use this constantly in training of who of us has ever volunteered to cover a shift in our restaurants, right When. When we've gone along, right, and just saw Tommy raise his hand. I've, hey, I'm an A plus player. I'm gonna. I'll cover a shift. I'll cover a shift. And the interesting piece with the way the triangle works in this just very simple way is. So I think I'm being an A plus player. And through my life I've been told, oh, participate, volunteer, stand up. So I volunteer. And I volunteer again. And I volunteer again. And so volunteering to cover that shift is A plus performance until it's not. So this is what we pay attention to, is Sally or Rudy or Tom or Jose. Volunteers, volunteers, volunteers. Two things happen. They Volunteer so often that all of a sudden they drop from rescuer into victim and go, when do I get a day off when somebody going to volunteer to cover my shift, right? Two things happen. One is oftentimes that person that's volunteering doesn't even realize they're the creator of their own victimhood. They've volunteered so much that now the whole system, the company, the managers, the team knows, hey, I don't need to raise my hand to volunteer because I know Rudy will do it. So we'll let Rudy keep doing it, right? Or even worse, the managers. Systemically, the managers in the company or the owners go, well, we're short a person, but I know Rudy will cover that shit.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So in that one moment, like, you're almost the hero, the villain and the victim because you're stepping up the volunteer and you're. You're the villain to yourself because, you know, you're creating this habit, this culture of people knowing that they can default to you until you become the victim.

[Rudy Mick]

In all those moments, 100%. And so there's no intention of being, you know, I think I'm being an A plus player until I actually find myself in this place that is not effective. And then the triangle becomes the roadmap, if you will. Four, well, wait, if Rudy keeps rescuing, if Rudy keeps volunteering, we're not hiring other people, we're not training other people, and we become dependent on Rudy. And God forbid, if Rudy gets sick, we're screwed, right? So the volunteering becomes the controller, the tickler. Somebody doesn't show up, Rudy volunteers, the company gets in jeopardy, the guests get in jeopardy, the production line gets in jeopardy because we've actually allowed the system to become habitual in a way that isn't healthy. So it's out of balance. So this is not evil. This is not. It's very rare that it's kind of evil stuff. This is just us trying to live a good life. And then the person down in the victim role, right, that's just trying to get their day off. And again, to everybody out there listening, I'm not talking about somebody that's gotten hurt in a car wreck or a cancer victim or somebody with a big illness or worse, right? I'm talking about a victim of my own habits. A victim of something that doesn't serve us or me or my family well, right? So I sit in this victim place with reasons, stories, and excuses to not accomplish not, hey, I'm doing what I thought was good work. I'm volunteering to cover that's my habit. I'm a good intentioned worker, but I keep being here. Well, guess what if I'm coaching shift that. What if you don't volunteer this time? As much as I need somebody to cover, what if you go last to raise your hand?

[Brian]

This episode is made possible by me's. MIES is a digital recipe platform that helps you stay creative, build profitable menus and nail food. Execution at scale consistency builds trust with your guests and your staff. No more messy spreadsheets or scattered systems. Whether they want to admit it or not, your team loves systems because systems equals peace of mind. Because we all want to know what.

[Eric Cacciatore]

The job done right looks looks like.

[Brian]

And M paints the picture of perfection and is the one source of truth for your entire team. By locking in recipes and training before service starts, ME makes sure every dish is consistent, every team member is aligned, and every location runs like clockwork. So when the report rolls in after the sale, they tell the story you're after. Higher profits, better margins, and repeat guests. It's time to take control of your profitability. Learn more at www.getme.com SL Unstoppable. That's G-E-T M E E Z.com Unstoppable.

[Rudy Mick]

And just see what happens to the system.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Yeah, it will force somebody else to step up, right?

[Rudy Mick]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So you know, in this, this Cartman's or Carpman's triangle, Drama. Triangle. You again. There's triangle, three points, top left hand corner. I mean, I don't know if it matters where because I'm looking at some images over here and I'm not sure which is the original, but you know, those three points of the triangle are rescuer, persecutor and victim. Are those. Is that the language you use?

[Rudy Mick]

And that's the original language.

[Eric Cacciatore]

And I see other language out there that is hero. What is it? Hero, villain and Victor. Victim. Hero, villain and victim. So can we just go through these? Like the rescuer, like the, the, I guess avatar of the rescuer. The avatar, the persecutor and the avatar, the victim. Just to get clarity on that before we kind of move forward, how we can use this tool to remove drama.

[Rudy Mick]

Sure. So these, these three positions, these three positions are actually so simple that again, it's just an incredibly good tool. If we start with rescue, rescue again in a 12 step program, sometimes it's called enabler, sometimes it's called the hero. Imagine rescuing. I come charging in on my white stallion, sword in hand to save the day.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

So Cartman's premise, his Whole original work was that these three roles are created when we're very, very young, even. I mean, literally before we even get to school. But the rescuer is perhaps the little kid. And these are very stereotypical what I'm going to share with you. There's all kinds of nuance, but these are the simple versions. The rescuer is maybe the little kid that doesn't have a lot of resources. Maybe they're protecting their brothers or sisters. Maybe they're. Very oftentimes they're the oldest kid. I'm protecting my siblings, I'm protecting my mom, or I'm doing what I can to. If we don't have a lot of money, we don't have a lot of time, or even if we do, if I'm not seen or heard, I'm the kid that doesn't have a lot of resources. Maybe I walk to school, I don't have lunch money, or the. Or the bullies took my lunch money, whatever it might be. Or I give away my lunch to some other kid, even better example, and I go hungry, I still end up getting A's in school. I'm the good student. I'm the good kid. I'm the just. I can be counted on.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah, right.

[Rudy Mick]

Hero. Hero. Hero.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So some of the language that I see here in this. This image that I'm referencing are words like they. They say, poor you. I can help. It'll be okay. Let me take over for you. Like that's the kind of mentality of a hero.

[Rudy Mick]

Exactly. And so that habit feels really good until it doesn't. It feels good to come in and save the day.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

It feels good to volunteer and get the accolades of covering that shift again. Until it doesn't. So rescuing overdone keeps everybody else out of the mix and less than high performance. So in a business climate, a lot of times bosses that are rescuers will end up hiring lots of victims to people with victim traits, reason, stories, excuses to miss. Because it's really easy for me to fall in a place where I'm telling you all the answers. I'm giving you all the answers. So you're subservient to me.

[Brian]

So at first glance, when you're seeing.

[Eric Cacciatore]

This Carpman's drama triangle, you'd see hero or rescuer, and you'd think to yourself, that's probably where you want to be. But the truth is you don't want to be there because you're. That's not balance. If you're. If you're constantly rescuing, you want balance and if you're constantly carrying the weight for your team, then there's an imbalance.

[Rudy Mick]

Well, and I would say that in the three roles, controller, victim, rescue, there's no good position. I don't want to be in the triangle anywhere. And Stephen will say that time and time again. Okay. So the victim, the victim ends up getting. So the motivator Stephen will talk about is how do I get hugged? How do I get love? How do I get seen? So the rescuer does it by being the good kid.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

The victim figures out, oh, if I trip and fall, I skin my knee, somebody picks me up, gives me a hug and again, this is, this is not evil, it's not horrible, it's not anything. It's just habit.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

That I find out, oh, if, if I'm driving my car and I get a flat tire, somebody will pick me up and give me a ride or they will help me fix my flat tire. If my alarm clock goes off, it's, It'll buy me 50. Doesn't go off. It's a good excuse to be late for my shift.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

It, I can get away with the excuse a few times and still be okay.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

Controller. Controller is much more subtle. It's very oftentimes the controller person, persecutor is so oblivious that they don't even know they're in the game.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Let's dive deeper into the control. So if we're looking at this triangle and we have input inverted triangle. The, the point of the triangle is pointing down top left hand corner. We're calling that the rescuer, AKA the hero, AKA the enabler. We've defined that pretty good. We've given that pretty language.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Let's go over to the, what Carpetman calls the persecutor, also known as the villain or what are some of the other terms you're using.

[Rudy Mick]

The original dialogue was controller, perpetrator, persecutor, sometimes called the villain. Sometime some somebody that's playing in this role is often what folks might call passive aggressive.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Got it.

[Rudy Mick]

So the controller holds all the cards. The controller says, controller might end up being a boss that screams and yells and tells you get the job done, but doesn't tell you how and says, jesus, this is common sense. Get the job done. But. And they expect common sense to be common, but it's not, especially now.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

We've got Gen Z, we've got Millennials, we've got Xs, we've got all of us in this crazy fast paced world.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Eric Cacciatore]

In my mind, this is the server that you promoted to manager because they're really good at their job, at doing the thing that you hired them for originally. And they say, hey, you're good at this. Why don't you become a manager? And they're like, why is nobody doing it as good as me? And they just. They just use that language they blame. So, like, yeah, again, back to this.

[Rudy Mick]

That's a great example, Eric. It's a great example. And so in a lot of our writing and a lot of the. The books that I've written in articles and stuff, we'll talk about what if our managers became coaches instead of cops? So to your point, here's a great worker, incredible skill. They get promoted to be a manager, and as soon as I get that title, it's like putting a badge on my chest. And I become a cop. And I walk around going, nope, that ain't it. Nope, that ain't it. Nope, that ain't it. Instead of saying, what is it?

[Eric Cacciatore]

They don't paint the picture of what the job done. Right. Looks like.

[Rudy Mick]

Right, Exactly.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

And so that brings us then to purpose and values from our show last week of how. How do we treat each other? What is the purpose of the business? And now we step by step, train it, and instead of catching people doing stuff wrong, we celebrate and coach.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

Performance and the drama. Triangle goes away.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

Literally, it just evaporates and we go, hey, we're going to talk about data. We're going to talk about intention. I see you trying to carry four plates. Let's start with three. In fact, let's start with two. You know, carry plate number one or number four here. Number two under here. Number three here. And four is here. And pick up four, three, two, one. So I can set them down 1, 2, 3, 4. That is excellence.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

As opposed to you, dummy, pick up the plates.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So we've defined hero or AKA Sorry, if I'm using Cartman's language. We've defined rescuer. We've defined controller, AKA perpetrator, prosecutor, villain. They use language like it's my fault or you're wrong, or who's the blame? Or they won't let us. So this is the kind of language the. The. The person that was promoted because they're good at their job, but they're not a coach, they're not a leader.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So, yeah, I think we can now go to the bottom quadrant or the bottom. Sorry. Part of the triangle. Victim. Or that's the. The same language, right? Victim. What are. Well, some of the other language Associated that you've heard relative to victim.

[Rudy Mick]

Victim, pretty unfortunately, just always the victim. What's a better word? What's a better word than victim? I'm just doormat. I'm. I'm maybe right. I'm. I'm stuck being coached with good job, good job, good job. As opposed to what does good job mean? Right, so now also note that what makes a controller or persecutor, very oftentimes the controller persecutor is as soon as we name. Hey, you're not giving me definitive steps about how to carry plates or how to move through the room or how to have restaurant eyes or how to build this recipe. The controller drops immediately to victim and says, well, who are you to tell me I'm doing the best job I know how to do? I was just promoted to this job. Right, so the control is very, very slippery. The controller will drop to victim and then they'll move.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

As soon as you go, oh, well, that wasn't my intention. They'll move right up to rescue and go, don't you get it? Nobody works as hard as I do. And then they'll move right back to controller again and start it over. Without getting into the body politic in the US and maybe even globally, we are at a point in time right now where Washington D.C. is living in the drama triangle.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

What's crazy is these are supposed to be the leaders of the world, right? And they're supposed to lead by example. But at the end of the day, we're all human.

[Rudy Mick]

Yeah, exactly. And both sides. Both sides are involved, right? Or all side, all. All participants are inside this finger pointing, oh, it's your fault. Oh, I dropped a victim and go, no, no, no, no, no. Don't you see? Up to rescue, then back over to controller pointing fingers again. And it's just this incestuous, really not very healthy way to play.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So is it safe to say that in all like social encounters that you know, beyond two relationships, if you have that third relationship, you start to approach this world of Cartman's drama triangle. Like when you. When relationship groups go beyond two, you know there's right or wrong. But then you get that third. That third perspective. In this example, you're talking about left, right and other right? And when you start getting those third party, when you have three parties.

[Brian]

This.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Dynamic of the Cartman's drama triangle comes into play.

[Rudy Mick]

Well, perhaps. So let's go a little more complex. The pandemic. All of us are still living in the whirl of. And the Wake of the pandemic. The pandemic, I would say, was a controller perpetrator. So we all became. Look at our restaurant industry, look at the world of work, became victims.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Yeah, it's not my fault.

[Rudy Mick]

So exactly who's the blame?

[Eric Cacciatore]

They won't let us open again.

[Rudy Mick]

Exactly. So my bad POS system. My old stove could be the controller. Oh, the economy could be the controller. So it doesn't have to be people. I could literally blame my landlord. I could blame the bank. I could blame whatever an inanimate source. I could blame another person. I could blame the back of the house and the front of the house.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

So drama in any way, shape or form does not serve the business. Because all we're doing, there's lots of energy, there's high rpm, but it's like a truck, I use the metaphor of a truck in two wheel drive stuck in the mud, spinning its wheels at high RPM but going nowhere.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

It's just really going hard, just going around. Instead we realized, oh my God, we're spinning our wheels. My front tires are working. Turn the thing into four wheels, slow down the RPM and pull right out of the mud. Just get out of it.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Brian]

So.

[Rudy Mick]

So this. Yeah, go ahead.

[Eric Cacciatore]

I was going to say. So we've identified now. I think we have the language. We have a pretty clear identification of who the rescuer, who the rescuer is, the controller and the victim. You mentioned something about the motivator. The motivator is how do I get hugged in these three. I want to call them quadrants, but what do you. What's the. What is quadrant? Instant rectangle.

[Brian]

How about semester segment?

[Eric Cacciatore]

So you keep on talking about all these different positions.

[Rudy Mick]

Points or positions. Yeah, there you go.

[Eric Cacciatore]

And all these three points. You said that there's a motivator and that is the how do I get hugged?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

So yeah, Cartman's.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Go ahead.

[Rudy Mick]

I'm sorry.

[Eric Cacciatore]

No. So, and that idea of the motivator. What's motivating? Like these people are asking themselves how I get hugged for the victim. It's like, you know, you're just looking for sympathy.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Eric Cacciatore]

And I feel like the rescuer is looking to get hugged for doing a good job. What about the controller? How's the controller trying to be hugged?

[Rudy Mick]

The controller will do. So again, think of little kids. If I am in a family system or in a system where I'm not seen, I'm not recognized, maybe I create practical jokes, maybe I become sarcastic, maybe I throw spitballs in the. In the back of the Room right in the class. Maybe I'm daydreaming. So any. Any notice, even if it's negative, I get sent to the principal's office. That's being seen.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

So I create. I create trouble. I create trouble or discomfort or energy. Does anarchist oligarch name the poison that get so much attention that finally they're seen?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah, right.

[Rudy Mick]

Very fragile ego. Etc.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So, okay, now that we've kind of identified all these points, you said also that we don't want. The goal is to not be in the triangle. So how do we stay out of the triangle? What does that look like?

[Rudy Mick]

So the really cool part of this is by teaching. We actually teach everybody in our restaurants, from the dishwasher to the managers to the DMS to the C suite, everybody learns the triangle and then communication tools that will keep us in the present. So hold on to that word for a second. I'll come back to it. So the goal is drama shows up. Here's how fast Rudy comes into work. Somebody asked me, God, how's your morning been? And I go, oh man, my kids are sick. My car is not working. And the second somebody goes, oh, bummer, they're hooked and the drama has started. Okay, so one day of that is not too bad. But we all know folks that show up like that and either constantly listen and go, oh my God, did you hear what happened to Rudy? Rescue Rescue storytelling. Or today it's my car or my kids. Tomorrow it's the alarm clock. Tomorrow it's the bus schedule. The next day it's implementing some new.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Software that you don't understand that nobody wants to do because it's more work. And why are we doing this? We don't have enough time to do inventory every week. We don't have time. This is a waste.

[Rudy Mick]

Yeah, 100%. Geez. We just learned the old system on the Pro on prime costing, and now you're asking us to shift rsp.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Ah, right, right.

[Rudy Mick]

So reason stories, excuses, and we keep going. So here's. Here's how we can stop. Cartman calls it game. The. The. The game of the triangle or sometimes the racket. When the parts, the positions are constant, very cons, very stable. Different people play different roles consistently. Or the POS system or the back office prime costing is the new controller.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

Whatever it is that what happens is we get stuck in the past telling stories. God, this always happens. Remember last year? Remember the year before that? Remember last week? Well, what about the last schedule? And I'm talking about the past. Or because of the past. I'm worried about the next schedule. Hey, we're now we're changing my, my salary is based on hitting our prime cost numbers to the tenth of a percent. And we just changed the system. I'm going to lose money. I'm not going to get my bonus this month.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

So I'm looking ahead instead. What we do, the answer to this is we're stuck in the past or we're worried about the future. Get present. Okay, stop. What do we do about this topic right now? What can be done differently with the schedule, with the POS, with the costing, with the hiring or the interviewing, etc. Right, with the plating. Hey, we have a small pickup window. So how could we expo in a different way today and experiment going forward until we can afford a new window? Yeah, whatever it might be, right?

[Eric Cacciatore]

This is being in a gain mindset, right? Like what can we do today? It's turning on that frontal lobe and not saying there is no way to do this. That's shutting your frontal lobe off. They're saying, how can we do something? How can we take action now? How can we be tomorrow, us, today, 100%.

[Rudy Mick]

And so instead of getting stuck in how it's always been, right. I can go, okay, here's what we've got. I don't have a fancy pickup line. I don't have a brand new kitchen. I don't have a million dollar kitchen. We've got an old food truck with a little window. Right, Whatever our concept is. So what can I do today to shift this going forward?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Got it.

[Rudy Mick]

As, as data based as possible. And guess what? The triangle just fizzles away. Just boom, it's gone.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So the answer, if I can paraphrase, to stay out of the triangle is to recognize when you're in the triangle by identifying these three avatars, whether that be rescuer, controller or victim, or identifying somebody else as taking on that role, calling it out, saying, hey, we're about to enter into a drama triangle. Instead of pointing the finger, why don't we identify, discuss and solve?

[Rudy Mick]

So I love this. Eric, you're so good. So to our audience, yeah, to our audience, here are some triggers that might, that might guide us to, hey, maybe we're in drama. Probably we are. Let's get out of it. I hear phrasing that says we're in the past. Yesterday, last week, an hour ago, hey, at the opening, this morning, two years ago, remember 10 years, all these things that are in the past. Or what about next week? Well, what about tomorrow? Well, what about a month from now? What about next season?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

Stuck in the past. In the future. Past or future. Watch out. When I start hearing absolutes. Everybody. Nobody.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Everyone.

[Rudy Mick]

No one. The killer. Always. Never. You never give me an opening shift. I'm always closing.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right, Right.

[Rudy Mick]

Or whatever it might be.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Or.

[Rudy Mick]

I'm always closing and opening.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

I never get cut first.

[Rudy Mick]

I never get cut. So I hear. Always, never. Watch out. We are likely in drama. So the way to pose this, I've found is, are we in drama? Could this be drama? Drama. Whoa. Stop the press. Yeah, I think we're in drama, right?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

Let's get out of it.

[Eric Cacciatore]

I'm a huge fan of Dr. Benjamin Hardy. I've been going through all of his books and that book he talks about, he. He loves Dan Sullivan's work. And I'm sure you're familiar with Dan Sullivan.

[Rudy Mick]

For sure.

[Eric Cacciatore]

They talk about the gap in the game, Right. So being in the. The drama triangle is being in the gap. It's. It's living in this place of scarcity, this place of things aren't the way they're supposed to be. And the. The, like, the. The way you get out of the gap is by choosing to live in the game, choosing to live on. What can I. Like, what can I do today? Or what can we do today to be where we want to be tomorrow?

[Rudy Mick]

Yeah. So here's a subtle, really powerful tool for the owners out there, for the managers out there, and if you want to get along at home even more, lose the pronouns because it's right. Everyone, no one, he, she, it. That if I can use proper nouns, names. Hey, Tommy's on the show. Benjamin's back. Yay. It's good to see him. Bob's here. And we speak to the audience that we've got in hand by name, as opposed to, well, they, them, he, she, it. Because the pronouns can. Will tend to get us stuck also. And pretty soon the speaker knows who the he and the it are, but the listeners actually will get lost in minutes.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Yeah, it's interesting. Huge fan of Robin Dunbar and the Dunbar's number. They have a book out. He did a collaboration called the Social Brain. I think it just came out like two or three years ago. And they talk about, like, what is this Dunbar's number of 150? And it's at that number of 150 where we go from we to they. Because beyond that, it's. And that's kind of what you're talking about right now. When you hear people talking about Pointing the finger like the other guys, you know, so. So what I'm hearing from you is. Is when you hear things like the triggering words are like never always, or them they blaming is. Those are the triggers you're looking for.

[Rudy Mick]

Exactly.

[Eric Cacciatore]

You said I use the example of living in the gap. That's how you say, hey, guys, we're in the gap. But you say, are we in? Are we in drama? That's the thing we'll just use to call it.

[Rudy Mick]

We'll just. Yeah, we'll literally just name it.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Got it. So have we unpackaged?

[Rudy Mick]

And we also let team members. We let new hires. No applicants. No. This is language we use. These are tool sets we use before they ever even get hired. Hey, be aware. We live in this brand. We live with feedback staying in the present, and we teach tools to give each other feedback in real time, constantly.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So have we unpackaged Cartman's drama triangle completely? Is there more to it that you want to touch on?

[Rudy Mick]

There's more, but I think that this is a good introduction and it. To me, it feels like we're in an okay place to refer back to it, though we've certainly hit the headlines.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Got it.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So behind every great restaurant is a great person.

[Brian]

The key to being great is to be of service to others. And this holds true for all organizations, not just restaurants. After spending a month in Phoenix, Arizona, being hosted by Restaurant Systems Pro CEO Fred Langley, I got to experience firsthand Fred's desire to serve. It all started when I got there. Fred gave me the keys to his house and to his office building. When Fred leaves work every day, I witnessed him go coach one of his two sons baseball teams. And when Fred's neighbor lost power when they were hosting their son's birthday party, Fred offered to host the party at his house. Eric, why are you sharing this? Because how you do one thing is how you do everything. And believe me when I say that the desire to serve extends to Fred's restaurant clients. There are no secrets or shortcuts to life or restaurant success. There's only discipline, hard work, and the desire to do the right thing. Fred and his team at Restaurant Systems Pro are here to serve you with the systems and resources to be more disciplined so you can do the hard thing, which nine times out of 10, is the right thing. With Restaurant Systems Pro, you get accounting systems, budgeting systems, costing systems, purchasing systems, inventory management systems, labor management systems, training systems, and the systems to create and implement checklists. On top of all this, Restaurant Systems Pro also has their own native General ledger, and they're in the process of launching their own pos, which they are so appropriately naming Serve. And you know what? If you don't want to change your pos, that's absolutely fine because Restaurant Systems Probably Pro integrates with all major POS providers. To learn more, head over to restaurantunstoppable.com RSP and you will find a link to schedule a demo with their sales team. A demo I personally did with Restaurant Systems Pro CEO Fred Langley and all 18 of our testimonials that we've recorded.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Since the beginning of restaurant Unstoppable.

[Brian]

Again, that's Restaurant Unstoppable.com RSP this episode is made possible by US Foods and did you know US Foods is hosting the Food Fanatics 2025 event at the Mandalay Bay Resort in Sunny Las Vegas, Nevada. It's all going down between August 19th and the 20th. The theme this year is Every second counts. And that could not be more true. If you want to be unstoppable, you really got to be intentional with your time. And there's no better way to be intentional with your time than going to this year's event. Because I'm gonna be there and there's gonna be so much going on. Here's what you can expect networking opportunities with 5000 industry peers. Live demos, giveaways, games and more. Celebrity chefs and keynote speakers. Billboard musical performance at the Mandalay Beach Exclusive Zuk nightclub reception. You can also sample the latest on trend dishes in what's an event without expert breakout sessions to learn and get inspired by? They'll be covering marketing, staffing, profitability in the future of food service. I know I'll be attending the Training to Retain session and there's also a dynamic pricing demystified session that I do not want to miss. It's time to get inspired, get connected, get fanatic. The clock is ticking, so Register now at www.usfoods.com Food Fanatics 2025 or just head over to usfoods.com and look for the banner. Space is limited.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Get on it It I want to so today's the goal today, right? Last week we spoke about vision, purpose, values and how to use those things as tools. We spoke to them relative to structure, strategy and culture. Today the goal was to unpackage Cartman's drama, triangle and Conscious Communication. Have we gotten into any of the Conscious Communication stuff yet?

[Rudy Mick]

We're alluding to it. You've said a couple things that I'd love to build on with Conscious Communication. So in the term conscious communication is a trademark of Nick Stephen Cartman's drama triangle is one third of conscious communication. So there's conscious, there's Cartman's drama triangle. There's mixed safe space communication, and there is a tool from a really brilliant author named Patty Wilson about how to. To speak about that. We'll set Patty's work aside for just now. You said something really powerful about we statements. You know, we instead of them.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

So for leaders out there, again, managers, owners, I can speak to my team and again, this will build drama or. Or eradicate drama in. In minutes by using our values, being on purpose, definitively talking about the vision and growing to it. But when I lead from, I need each of us on the team to greet every guest with within five steps. Okay, I'm now leading. I'm not telling. Hey, you guys need to greet our guests with eye contact and authentic smile. When we get within five steps, I need you to do this. Instead. I go to what we will call a collective eye. So we in our company, in our company, we each greet guests with eye contact at five steps and some verbal acknowledgement. I need each of us. So all of us, every one of us. And now if my team is a circle, instead of me being outside the circle telling my team what to do, I'm now in the circle. Hey, guys, I want each of us. So I'm in the circle. You're right.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Yeah, let's go, let's go.

[Rudy Mick]

Yeah, let's go. Let's go. Have a great shift. I'm going to say that if I'm actually going to be on the floor in the shift, I mean, I just.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Had a Tom Brady moment where I pictured him screaming, let's go. But hey, absolutely. The goat.

[Rudy Mick]

Well, and Tom Brady is out on the field, right?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

With the team.

[Brian]

We'll talk about.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Yeah, Sorry. No, please, you first.

[Rudy Mick]

Well, the kiss of death is, hey, you guys, we need to go or let's go. And I don't go.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

That will after about three or four times, that will in itself create some drama.

[Eric Cacciatore]

But even if you look at Tom Brady's story and you know what he did to get to help build that team, I don't think people know that he took a huge pay cut, like, I want to say close to like one third of his potential earning cut. To be able to give that money to his offensive line so that they can. Could go the. He knew that they needed that money. If he wanted to win. He wanted.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

He.

[Eric Cacciatore]

He wanted to win Super Bowls. That was his vision. That was his purpose. And he knew to achieve that vision, that purpose, he needed the team, they needed the resources to, to, to get the help they needed to go there.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

I think it was like he identified that most of the teams that win super bowl have depth in their offensive line. Like, if you're building your restaurant, you want a bench.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Eric Cacciatore]

He knew that he needed a bench so that if his left tackle got injured, that there was a second and third backup to give him the protection he needed.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Eric Cacciatore]

And I think that's just such a beautiful example of a we mentality. Not just talking, not just using language, but actions 100%.

[Rudy Mick]

So we've been doing, I, I and my team have been doing open books management since the 80s and profit sharing. Top and bottom line profit sharing, gross net Profit sharing since 92. Long time.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

We saw very early on that hundred thousand dollar salaries, even $80,000 salaries or the kiss of death in most restaurants.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

So instead, how do we have open books? We share the data. We stay in the present. We teach everybody how to perform in excellence with numbers as well as purchasing, receiving, whatever. Anyway, the point of this story to your, to build on your Tom Brady experience. We've always, I've always found that the process has been really strong to be definitive about who gets performance profit sharing. And the more people that are in the profit sharing pool, the better we play. But I was raised as a young manager, I was raised in an environment where the manager got bonuses. And to your point, the high performing managers shared the bonus with their front team. We didn't keep it all.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

Those of us that were the high performers and ultimately became owners and then operators, we all consistently shared out. Oh, I just got a thousand bucks. Here's 152.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

Six different people.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right?

[Eric Cacciatore]

Well, because the top performers know it's who, not how. And you can have the how, but you need to have the right who executing the how. And without that, you're, you're not great.

[Rudy Mick]

Well. And there's abundance. Right? Is that to your point? You use that word earlier of, can I be thinking big enough picture that if I win, we all. If, if, if, if I win, we all win. And if we all win, we can do even more.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

So rather than just I keep it all, which would be controller.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

I actually begin to share and open the door. And that leads to, that led us to. Oh my God, we could teach literally the whole kitchen team, the whole service crew how to build. Not only read a P. L in the Restaurant but build their own personal p. L. For the home. I swear we've. We have done that for 30 years. And it just is bulletproof. Yeah, it just.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

It's so.

[Eric Cacciatore]

It's powerful.

[Rudy Mick]

So so powerful.

[Eric Cacciatore]

You gave me some bullets earlier to touch on for conscious communication. Hit me with those bullets one more time. Unless you. Let's make sure we get through these things.

[Rudy Mick]

One is, one is. With conscious communication, how do I stay present in the moment? So what can we do right now? I hear all the noise about the past and I hear lots of fear and concern about the future. What do we do right now to deal with this?

[Eric Cacciatore]

So that's one. What's the next bullet?

[Rudy Mick]

That's one. Another is think about collective I managing from a collective eye which is we. Everyone. Each of us. Every one of us. Any one of us. Let's the connecting to my team.

[Eric Cacciatore]

And what's the more bullets we have that we have the list out.

[Rudy Mick]

Those are. Those are two for now. Okay.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So we unpackaged Cartman's drama triangle pretty well. We understand that the goal is to stay out of the triangle. We do that with conscious communication. And that's things like how do we stay present and how do we speak in the collective? I like we everyone.

[Rudy Mick]

Let me share. Let me share one more thing with is can I as a leader name my intention and then check with the team about the impact. So I'm sharing information with you today about Cartman's drama triangle and conscious communication. I'm interested in the impact. What are your takeaways as an example?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

If the impact and folks feel safe enough to say geez, I don't really know that I got anything tangible enough to put to use, then I can get. I can back up and try again right to right share more clearly. But the intention and impact is really important. And an intention impact miss Sometimes it's a flyby. Two jets going head off.

[Eric Cacciatore]

You see this when there's like constructive criticism Instead of just coming out and saying you did a crap job at that, you say hey, I want. I value you as a part of this team. I know that you can do amazing stuff and I want to make sure you do amazing stuff with us. And I want to make sure that you are as self aware as possible. That's my intention. Which is why I'm telling you that the way you're doing it isn't the way that we train to do it. And it could be done better. And we know you could probably even do it better than anyone else. Has done it. That's why we want to make sure you know how to do it right. Like, yeah, so like, is that a good example?

[Rudy Mick]

And there's. Yeah, that is a good example. One last piece that we call it My truth, My experience. The process of that is each of us have our own life experience. I'm a white guy, I'm educated, presumably I have some money, so very much privilege. Somebody else maybe has less privilege. So what is my truth, my experience? What is your truth, your experience? What then becomes our experience in the restaurant, in our brand, in the inter engagement with our guests or building recipes or building production, packing a carry out bag, a to go bag, whatever it might be. If I can own an experience, expect as an owner and a manager, if I can appreciate the fact that everybody is not me and everyone does not have my life experience, my unique skills, My unique skills and that maybe, oh, Tommy's on the show. He's probably got some skills that I don't even about have.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Yeah, this is why I think.

[Rudy Mick]

Right.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Yeah, I think this is why things like predictive index are so important because you get to understand more about the person. You can make fewer assumptions because you understand that individual better.

[Rudy Mick]

100% PI disk, right. Numerous other why OS numbers of tools are out there. Myers Briggs is the oldest and the. Well, actually PI is. But, but all of those variations are really, really helpful. And then imagine that in our, in our own business when we have a meeting, we create the time and make the time to hear people's different experiences of a new idea. Hey, here's how we're going to carry plates. Here's how we're going to. We're not going to use trays. We are going to use trays, right? What, who cares? But the process is why and what is the thinking to get to a collective our truth right within. So the second I walk in the front door or the back door, we're now in a collectively defined business culture that drives.

[Eric Cacciatore]

I'm so tempted, I'm so tempted to bring back our conversation from part one. But then I just realized the whole point of tomorrow's con or next week's conversation is to bring it all together. So I'm going to resist. But I feel like we've unpackaged everything, you know, just to come full circle. We started today with our intention to learn more about Cartman's drama triangle, what that is and the, the different identities within that triangle and how to use conscious communication to get out or to stay out of the triangle. And we do that by staying present, by acknowledging and understanding when we are in the triangle, by calling it out and by saying, hey, I want to make sure we stay out of the drama triangle. Because this is the impact when we stay out of the drama triangle. And we do that by using language like we, everyone, us. And by painting the picture of what the job done. Right. Looks like, having a strategy, having structure. And I'm starting to get into yesterday's or last week's conversation, so I'm going to stop there. But did I miss anything? Is there anything else that we. That needs to come out relative to conscious communication before we start to wrap it up, or did I totally swing and miss?

[Rudy Mick]

I know, dude, I love it. 1. One additional piece that you just modeled beautifully is to the audience. Listen to the energy in Eric's tone of voice, right? Listen to the diction, you know, whatever, Right?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

The enthusiasm that transpires so in the very tone of voice, in the speed of delivery is translating. Enthusiasm, excitement, sincerity, authenticity.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right?

[Rudy Mick]

Those things translate out of our word choice, our body language, and our tone of voice. So those things. That's another aspect that we train to our. To everybody in our restaurants, literally. In that process, in order to restore souls, we need to support each other by being present, using the tools in communication. Just like we use the tools to hit our prime costs. Just like we use our tools to saute perfectly or bake or roast or whatever it might be, right? Yeah, it's just yummy.

[Eric Cacciatore]

That just goes back to like all that, you know, what is it like 20 of communication is verbal or like what you're actually saying? Is that the number?

[Rudy Mick]

I can't remember. Seven.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Seven. I knew it was seven.

[Rudy Mick]

Seven percent is our words.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Rudy Mick]

Between 35 and 45 is our body language. The rest is tone of voice. So 93. 93 is tone and body language. So when I'm the manager or the owner and I'm walking through the dining room or the carry out or the drive through, and I don't have a smile, you know, I'm looking angry or just whatever. And dude, watch out because you're sending the signal that no smile and growling is acceptable. That's the brainer. Well, no, it isn't.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Rudy, I really enjoyed you being here today. I learned a lot. I feel like I'm better because of it. And I just can't say thank you enough. Was that convincing?

[Rudy Mick]

Absolutely.

[Eric Cacciatore]

It was.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

It.

[Eric Cacciatore]

No, I was trying to be playing me, baby. I was. I was trying to show you that enthusiasm. Like, if you're saying things and it doesn't and you don't. You're. The way you're saying it, the tone you're saying it. People are like, you don't think any of that's true. You're just saying it because you have to.

[Rudy Mick]

Exactly right. So am I coming across as condescending? Am I coming across as authentic? Am I coming across as an authoritarian? Am I? Or is there sincerity, clarity, care?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Right.

[Rudy Mick]

All these little nuances, you know, presumably in the research of 3,000 facial expressions that mean exactly the same thing globally. Yeah, yeah, 3,000. Just the rays of an eyebrow, the lip, you know, our lips turning up or down.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So I think it's safe to say we've concluded part two of this three part series of the three, what we call it the three steps of excellence. I can't remember the title of today's work. Too many things going through my head.

[Rudy Mick]

Three elements that I can't remember. I can't remember either. But we're done with part two.

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So give us a little teaser. What can we expect next week?

[Rudy Mick]

So it's my understanding that next week we're going to integrate purpose, values, vision with the execution of conscious communication to create high performance brand experience within our physical structure, within our even social media platform. How's that?

[Eric (possibly alternate or assistant)]

Yep, I love it.

[Rudy Mick]

So that we can connect, contact, bring it all, build engagement.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Thank you so much. How can we connect with you if we enjoyed today's conversation? We want to talk to you. We want to, want to learn more. What's the best way to connect?

[Rudy Mick]

I'm old school enough that I still use email a lot and my email address is rudyc.comm I I c k.com and frankly, here's my cell. 720-641-7565. Call me anytime. I'll pick up Rudy. If you get voicemail, it'll be back.

[Eric Cacciatore]

You're giving too much away, man. I want people to join the network so they have earned forced to to join the network to talk to you. I'm just kidding.

[Rudy Mick]

Well, are you and I'll be here.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Or you can head over to restaurantstoppable.com live and we're gonna have group coaching once a month. Oh, maybe once a quarter. We still haven't figured out the cadence, but we're gonna have a cadence of group coaching where you can get access to Rudy and others and learn together. And again, restaurantstoppable.com live this is episode 10, 224 if you want to head to the show. Notes, we'll have links to your email and your phone number there and the link to join the community and I can't wait for next week, man. I know it's going to be good. This is where I say there is no questioning my man. You are unstoppable.

[Brian]

Unstoppables.

[Eric Cacciatore]

If you enjoyed this part two of the three part series with Rudy Mick and you want more Mick and you just can't wait, then head over to restaurantunstoppable.com Mick M I I C K where we'll have the entire list of this workshop series waiting for you. So you get early access to part three where he ties together the three elements that will get you excellence. Those elements again are purpose, vision and values tied with Cartman's drama triangle and conscious communication. And then we're going to tie all that together. How these things play off of each other in part three. You can get access to that now.

[Brian]

Plus I'm stoked to announce that Rudy.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Mick is going to be making himself available once a month for a like.

[Brian]

Operations Strategy Culture Power hour.

[Eric Cacciatore]

This means you get access to Rudy Mick group coaching once a month. That is unheard of. Guys. The the the cast of characters I'm putting together over at Restaurant Stoppable Network is impressive and Rudy Mick is joining the team.

[Brian]

So do not hesitate.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Head over to restaurantstoppable.com live sign up for Restaurant Unstoppable Live today. Get access to me twice a month. Get access to people like Rudy. Mix these experts and my network of badass mentors. You do not have to do this alone. As a matter of fact, you go further when you choose to go together and we'd love to have you come with us again. Head over to restaurantunstoppable.com Mick for the playlist and early access to part three in restaurantstoppable.com live to be a part.

[Brian]

Of this community that's transforming the industry.

[Eric Cacciatore]

We'll see you there.