Restaurant Unstoppable Episode 1246: Jordan Ware and Cindi Kozak, Co-Owners of Frankie’s

Release Date: January 22, 2026
Host: Eric Cacciatore
Guests: Jordan Ware & Cindi Kozak (Co-Owners, Frankie's, Burlington, VT)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Eric Cacciatore sits down with Jordan Ware and Cindi Kozak, co-owners of Frankie's in Burlington, Vermont—a restaurant recognized by Eater as one of America's best new restaurants. The conversation weaves through their personal journeys in hospitality, the founding and explosive growth of Frankie's, and practical insights on restaurant profitability, culture, community impact, and the future of restaurants in the age of technology. Jordan and Cindi reveal the mindset and operational strategies that led to Frankie's early success and share candid perspectives on leadership, financial realities, mentorship, and their vision for the future.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Universality and Purpose of Restaurants

• Restaurants as unique spaces for unity and nourishment, transcending backgrounds and beliefs.
• Emphasis on hospitality as the core mission beyond just serving food.

Quote:
“It is one of the places, I think, one of the only places where you get a large group of people together under one roof…and the only mission is to have a good time, to be. Doesn’t matter where, what you believe in, where you come from…All that matters is the cool unification of appreciating sitting down and having some good food.”
—Cindi Kozak (00:00, 32:10)

2. Building Frankie's: From Idea to Acclaimed Restaurant

Current State of the Business

• Opened April 2024, full-service dinner, 70+ seats, 120–150 covers nightly.
• 2025 Projected revenue: ~$2.4 million, 15% profit margin.

Quote:
“Oh, wow. And that’s with 70 seats…so you got butts in seats almost every night…15% [profit]—that’s amazing in today’s market.”
—Eric Cacciatore, with Jordan confirming (09:47–10:07)

• Recognized by Eater as one of America’s best new restaurants helped skyrocket business.

The Power of Press and Third-Party Platforms

• Dramatic impact of positive media exposure; business jumped after Eater recognition.
• Discussion about the outsized influence of publications and third-party platforms on restaurant success and consumer choice.

Quote:
“There’s like before the article, and then after the article for us…We were like dive bombing and then the article came out and it was just like, boom.”
—Jordan Ware (08:59)

3. Hospitality Philosophy: People, Playfulness, and Empowerment

Culture & Team Leadership

• Daily family meals and lineups to foster a positive, safe, and collaborative environment.
• Empowering both front- and back-of-house staff with autonomy and involving them in decision making.

Quote:
“I always try to empower [the kitchen crew] and get them part of the conversation…It’s not just me making decisions, like, what do we all want to do? What do we all want to make happen today?”
—Jordan Ware (06:16)

• Service style centered on discovery and fun, surprising guests with unique, local products.
• Reverse engineering the guest experience: Listening to each guest and customizing accordingly.
• "It’s playful. And I want to keep it playful…we have opportunities every day to have moments of discovery with people."
  —Cindi Kozak (20:52)

4. Journeys into Hospitality & Key Mentors

Jordan Ware

• Early industry start as a teen, worked under demanding chef-mentors.
• Shifted from creative focus to mentorship in later career stages.
• Lifelong learning: “It shifts, you know…gets to a point where it becomes about mentoring other people.”

Cindi Kozak

• Unexpected entry into hospitality during the 2008 recession (background in writing).
• Inspired by European food culture—long, shared meals, deep appreciation for hospitality.
• Rapid ascent in the industry (server to general manager to co-owner).

The Power of Mentors (Notably at Hen of the Woods)

• Both credit Eric Warnstedt (Hen of the Woods) for their foundational work ethic, discipline, and for giving autonomy.
• Key mentors: Chris Goss (for advice during their transition), Matt Canning (for proforma and financial guidance), Paul Saylor (banking and investment advice).

5. Financial Realities of Opening and Operating Frankie's

Raising Capital & Construction Challenges

• Mix of bank loans ($300k), crowdfunding ($150k), private loans ($150k+), and personal savings; total startup cost ~$600–650k.
• Key insight: Relationships and reputation with community, staff, and investors were critical to receiving favorable terms and support.

Quote:
“You never know who your future investor is going to be…Treat every guest like they are your future investor.”
—Eric Cacciatore (63:01)

Importance of Specialized Accountants

• Leaned heavily on restaurant-specialized accountants (O’Reilly & O’Reilly).
• Monthly financial check-ins; disciplined tracking of labor and food costs essential to reaching profitability within 10 months.

Quote:
“I don’t know how restaurants would do it without a Leo and a Jenny.”
—Jordan Ware (71:58)

Learning to Trim Costs & Grow Sustainably

• Initial sky-high labor costs (~50%), quickly right-sized to below 40%.
• Menu pricing driven by cost realities, unapologetically charging what’s required to maintain quality, local sourcing, and profitability.

Quote:
“I don’t think we’re doing each other any service by not charging what we’re supposed to be charging…people are going to be mad about costs in general…and that’s okay.”
—Cindi Kozak (78:41)

6. Community, Relationships, and the Restaurant as a Social Hub

• Restaurants as community anchors; a place for celebration, connection, and shared identity.
• Success driven by internal relationships—with staff, with partners, and with the community.
• Valuing support and collaboration over competition in the local industry. “It’s so much more fun to support one another…”
  —Cindi Kozak (104:00)

7. Technology and the Future of Restaurants

Role of Tech and AI

• Leveraging tools like Toast POS and Resi for efficiency and insight; positive on AI tools for analysis and administrative tasks, but skeptical about replacing core human elements.
• AI as a future “CFO”—ability to identify trends, operational improvements.

Quote:
“That’s cool…and I appreciate like an advanced Google. It’s going to be a CFO real soon because…here are the patterns, here are the trends, here are things that you can do to shave a point off.”
—Cindi Kozak & Eric Cacciatore (104:37–105:42)

• Strong belief that hands-on, people-centric work remains irreplaceable.
• Frankie's pays close attention to human connection—team cohesion, guest experience, local relationships—as a future-proofing mechanism.

Local Food Systems and Sustainability

• Vermont cited as a model for sustainable, local food culture.
• Maintaining 15% profitability while remaining true to local, ethical sourcing: “You’re living proof…how you make that work while maintaining 15% profit.”
  —Eric Cacciatore (75:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Restaurant Culture:
  “I feel so lucky to work in an environment every day where we can have fun…We have opportunities every day to have moments of discovery with people.”
  —Cindi Kozak (20:52)

• On Growth and Change:
  “When we started down this path…so many people just came into our corner…”
  —Jordan Ware (37:52)

• On Financial Realities:
  “It was the hardest decision I’ve ever made in my life…Hands down.”
  —Jordan Ware (47:00)

• On Empowerment:
  “It made me treat the people that were under me the same way…just empowering people.”
  —Jordan Ware (46:01)

• On Restaurant as Community:
  “For our whole existence, our existence has been about getting food and sustaining each other…where’s everybody going to go?…Go work with your hands.”
  —Eric Cacciatore, Jordan Ware (33:36–34:15)

• On Purpose and Mentorship:
  “When I texted my mom a picture…her response was, ‘I’m really proud of all your success, but I’m more proud that you’re a mentor.’ And that hit really hard…”
  —Jordan Ware (115:58)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – The heart of restaurants: Unification and hospitality (Cindi Kozak’s opening thoughts)
• 04:32 – Introducing Jordan Ware and Cindi Kozak; mission and success mantras
• 08:10 – Scale and scope of Frankie's today: Seats, covers, revenues, profitability
• 11:25 – Private dining, changing trends, and flexibility in operations
• 12:05 – Ware’s and Kozak’s early trajectories and discovering their calling
• 16:08 – Lessons from Europe; food culture as an education (Kozak)
• 19:27 – First impressions: Ware and Kozak as teammates, discovering each other's strengths
• 20:19 – Playfulness and moments of discovery as central to the Frankie's ethos
• 23:47 – Hen of the Woods: Growth, mentorship, foundational years for both
• 34:32 – Decision to take over the Frankie's space and start a restaurant
• 41:39 – Lessons from Hen; evolving into leadership, autonomy, and business acumen
• 43:54 – Hospitality as generosity: "Letting guests win" and moments of surprise
• 47:00 – On key mentors and the emotional weight of opening independently
• 51:25 – Raising capital: Crowdfunding, bank loans, and reputation as currency
• 53:10 – Construction and project management hurdles
• 59:14 – Service philosophy: Always saying 'yes' and making the extra effort
• 68:33 – Achieving profitability: Cutting labor, right-sizing, prime costs
• 73:20 – The importance of rigorous financial accountability and staying lean
• 75:47 – Maintaining ethics and sustainability amid rising costs
• 77:03 – Menu pricing strategies and food costing philosophy
• 83:22 – Building a sustainable culture and empowering key team members
• 86:19 – Relationships and organizations as living systems; the importance of every role
• 89:08 – Working capital: Keeping a safety net for the team
• 90:02 – Vision for the future: Growth, reinvestment, and creating opportunity for others
• 104:37 – AI in restaurants: Cautious optimism, keeping the “human” forefront
• 108:09 – Vermont as a sustainability model and the importance of community support
• 115:24 – "Three pieces of wisdom": Care, positive encouragement, and courage (Kozak/Ware)

Standout Wisdom & Takeaways

1. Purpose-Driven Hospitality Wins

Put people—staff and guests—at the center. Hospitality is about more than food; it’s about shared joy and community belonging.

2. Empowerment and Fun are Strategic

Team engagement, agency, and playfulness aren't soft perks—they're critical for retention, guest experience, and bottom line success.

3. Numbers Matter, But People Matter More

Profitability and cost control require rigor. Trusted, specialized accountants and a culture of financial transparency are powerful levers.

4. Invest in Relationships

With staff, peers, investors, mentors, and the larger community. Relationships are the greatest store of value and provide access, advice, and capital.

5. Be Unapologetic About Quality and Price

If you stand for sourcing local and providing excellence, price your menu to sustain your values and your business.

6. Don’t Go It Alone

"No one builds a great restaurant alone." Find mentors, collaborators, and cheerleaders—and start paying it forward.

7. The Restaurant of the Future is Both High-Tech and High-Touch

Leverage technology for analysis and insight—but double down on the human elements only independent restaurants can offer.

Guests' Closing Wisdom (115:24)

1. Care about what you're doing
2. Regenerate positive encouragement through your community
3. Don't be afraid—just go for it

Bonus:
“Mentorship is what I’m most proud of. That staff can come in and be excited, enthusiastic…keeps me going.” —Jordan Ware (115:58)

Connect & Learn More

• Instagram: @frankiesvt
• Website: frankiesvt.com
• Contact: Cindi@frankiesvt.com

Suggested Future Guests (117:20)

• Paul Saylor (American Flatbread, Zero Gravity Brewing)
• Chris Goss (Hospitality mentor)
• Jay Canning & Matt Canning (Hotel Vermont, local investors/supporters)

In Summary:
Frankie's success emerges not just from great food or smart operations, but from deep intentionality around people, community, and relationships—plus a rigorously practical approach to finance in the real world. Their story is a blueprint for building a restaurant that is truly "unstoppable."