← Restaurant Unstoppable with Eric Cacciatore
Loading summary
Transcript899 lines
- [00:00]
Eric
A couple things before we get started today. First, thank you so much for showing up week after week making my vision for restaurants unstoppable come true. Your downloads are allowing me to do this show the way I've always wanted to do it. Boots on the ground, word of mouth, leaders, referring leaders, giving the industry an uncensored, no BS platform to share their perspectives and truth. That's on you. Thank you so much. And we're just getting started. So if you're enjoying what we're doing here and you want to help us do it even better, please subscribe to this podcast on your platform of choice. And if you do that, I promise to do everything in my power to continue to improve the show. I'll deliver the restaurant tours you want to hear from, and we'll continue to make everything you love about this show better. Thank you. Welcome to restaurant unstoppable. For 10 years and over 1,000 episodes, I've been traveling the country chasing word of mouth leads and having in person only long form discussions with the industry's finest owners and operators. Our mission is to inspire, empower and transform the restaurant industry by bridging the gap between this generation's leaders and the next. Listen to today's guest and so many others and get one step closer to becoming unstoppable. This episode is in partnership with Giving Kitchen. The restaurant industry takes care of people.
- [01:31]
That's what we do.
- [01:32]
But historically we haven't always been great about taking care of own. That's why I want you to know about Giving Kitchen. They're a national nonprofit supporting food service workers facing real crisis, medical issues, accidents, unexpected hardship. The kind of thing that can really derail a career. Since 2013, they've helped more than 35,000 restaurant workers across the country and awarded over 17 million in financial assistance and stability resources. If you're an operator, chef, or anyone food service, this resource is worth knowing. A lot of restaurants choose a rally around Giving Kitchen because at some point everyone in the business knows someone who needs it. Go to givingkitchen.org to learn more and see how you can be a part of it in your own way. This episode is made possible by Restaurant Systems Pro and beginning in January 2026, Restaurant Systems Pro is going to be doing a 30 day mastery program. This is valued at $4,000 and if you head over to go.restaurantassistancepro.netprofits you can, for a limited time get this for but there's an even better deal if you sign up for a Restaurant Unstoppable
- [02:42]
network by heading to restaurantstoppable.com live.
- [02:45]
You can get this 30 day mastery program for free when you join the community. And you also get access to this in perpetuity because they're going to be popping it off every month. Go into 2026 with all the knowledge and resources and tools you need to be unstoppable in partnership with Restaurant Unstoppable in Restaurant Systems Pro Again Restaurant Unstoppable.com Live Join the community get access to this training this episode is made possible by US Foods Running a successful restaurant takes more than just great food.
- [03:17]
With US Foods, you can expect more
- [03:19]
high quality products, advanced tools and flexible deliveries to grow your business. Their industry leading moxie platform also does more than just place your US Foods order. It uses AI to help you take control, save time and increase profitability. Visit usfoods.com expectmore to learn how to become a US Foods customer one more time. That is usfoods.com expect more this episode is brought to you by Restaurant Technologies, the leader in automated cooking oil management. Their total oil management solution is an end to end closed loop automated system that delivers, monitors, filters, collects and recycles your cooking oil, eliminating one of the dirtiest jobs in the kitchen. Restaurant technologies services over 45,000 customers nationwide. Automate your oil and elevate your kitchen by visiting RTI NC.com or call 888-779-5314 to get started with excitement.
- [04:18]
Allow me to introduce to you today's guest chef, owner of Clementine, John Russ, my man. John, are you feeling unstoppable?
- [04:25]
John Russ
We are certainly feeling unstoppable today.
- [04:27]
Eric
I'm feeling unstoppable just in the the 20, 30 minutes I've been here setting up the conversation has already been great. I found you through Kim Beechner, the founder of Embark Marketing. She was a phenomenal guest. She's actually sitting off camera right now
- [04:43]
John Russ
and she's a lot of trouble. You gotta watch out for her.
- [04:46]
Eric
She but she had amazing things to say about you. Just a little bit of research I give myself to to understand my guests. You've done some cool things James Beard nods in the past. You really have. Clearly you have values in what you're trying to do with your business, with sustainability, in supporting just the the people right now. So I can't wait to get into it. Before we dive into who you are and how you got to where you are today. Let's get that motivational inspirational ball rolling with a success quote or mantra. What do you got for us?
- [05:15]
John Russ
So back in the day. Like, way back in the day, early 2000s, I was working at a restaurant called August in New Orleans, and one of the chef's podnas would come in every Friday at 5 o'.
- [05:27]
Eric
Clock.
- [05:27]
John Russ
He'd walk into the kitchen and he'd say, hey. And everybody would kind of look up and we'd go, the biggest thing. And this is kind of like bringing it back is, like, the biggest thing for us was, like, about consistency. And he would say, consistency is. And as all the cooks, it was like, all these little kids be, like, back there going, job security. And he'd walk out of the kitchen, and it was like the dumbest thing. Right. Five o' clock on a Friday. It's not a pep talk. It's Nothing special. But 30 years later, you know what consistency is? Job security.
- [05:59]
Eric
Yeah.
- [06:00]
John Russ
Doing it. Right. Doing it every time the same way. Making it easy for yourself to say, hey, you know what? What do we actually do?
- [06:06]
Eric
Yeah.
- [06:07]
John Russ
And so let's just do it consistently.
- [06:08]
Eric
Two things come to my mind with that. One, the power of ritual and things. It seems silly sometimes, but with culture, every culture has rituals and every culture has language. And you have to combine a ritual language to enforce these things that matter. And consistency, if that's one of your core values, you got to find a way to work that into the. The daily language. Right. And the other thing is consistency is job security. And I think that works on an individual level, a store level, and an industry level.
- [06:38]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [06:39]
Eric
So, like, we as an industry need to really think about what are we consistently doing and saying, and if we're inconsistent, then what makes this thing special? The industry, we might lose that.
- [06:51]
John Russ
Exactly. You know, on our side, the way, you know, as a cook, you see consistency as like, I need to make sure my steak is consistent every time. You know, like, from cutting it to cooking it and making the sauce, it's got to be consistent. And then you become a sous chef, and it's like, well, my team has to be consistent. And then you look at, you know, as you grow into the chef de cuisine and into an owner, consistency is job security at every level, you know, for that set of ownership. And then on our side, you know, industry wide, like you were just saying, it's trying to figure out how we can all become a little bit more consistent. And a lot of the time, it's not messaging. It's not the. The conversations that we have. It's not the things that are said and kind of, like, bandied around as an industry. It's literally the Things that we're doing as an industry that are going to help us to be more consistent.
- [07:35]
Eric
Yeah. Culture isn't what you say, it's what you do.
- [07:37]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [07:37]
Eric
Yeah.
- [07:38]
And just if we can be consistent as an industry, then I think we can be consistent as a society. And we have then national security. Yeah. You know, it seems silly, but it's all connected. Yep. Great way to get this thing started. So before we kind of go into your story, let's start with the end in mind. What is your business today?
- [07:58]
John Russ
So Clementine is a small neighborhood restaurant in Castle Hills with the suburb of San Antonio. 54 seats inside, 54 seats outside. But because it's Texas, the 54 seats outside only count for like two months a year. And so it's, you know, we really kind of of rely on what's happening inside, which is unfortunate because like the
- [08:18]
Eric
two months of the year. Wait, would that be. I'm assuming that's like April, May, if
- [08:22]
John Russ
you add up all the days, it's like literally 60 days a year where we can like fully seat outside.
- [08:27]
Eric
In New Hampshire, I would say that's like July, August.
- [08:30]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [08:30]
Eric
You know, but you guys, nobody's sitting outside.
- [08:33]
John Russ
You know, shockingly, you know, after nine o' clock sometimes, you know, folks will want to go and sit out there. It's warm, but like, it is kind of what it is when it's super cold. Every now and then we have people who want to sit outside. And you know, in my mind I'm like, y' all are crazy. But whatever is, if that's your gig, like, we'll set it up, we'll make it work. But it's really the 54 seats inside that that make it work. My wife is the pastry chef. She does the book. She does, yes, Elise, she does the mass majority of the focus of this organization when it comes to like long term base. And then I do the savory side. And we've got a great little organization that's 24 on average employees.
- [09:15]
Eric
Okay. And so full service. What percentage of your, if you had a guess is dine in versus takeout?
- [09:23]
John Russ
0.0.0% takeout. Okay.
- [09:26]
Eric
So you don't even offer it as an option.
- [09:27]
John Russ
It is, you know, if friends call or regular guests call and they're like, hey, you know, this is happening that time. Sure. Of course we do take out a lot. Shockingly for it being 0% of our revenue set because it's, hey, so and so's in the hospital for cancer treatment. We're going to go and send some food over to the house or to wherever. We do a significant amount of stuff like that, but we don't charge for it. It's not. It's just part of the community stuff.
- [09:52]
Eric
Got it. And you also. You don't just do the four walls traditional full service. You also have events, correct?
- [09:59]
John Russ
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Once a month we do this patio and pearls things, which is, you know, a shucking oysters outside. We have this really incredible lounge singer that comes to sing with us and hang out. And it's like, you know, you want live music, right? But you want live music that fits your venue. And this guy Chris Crow is just like, sits on the piano and it's like the Vegas lounge lizard kind of singer. And it is so frickin amazing. I love it.
- [10:23]
Eric
Is that once a month to you.
- [10:24]
John Russ
Once a month.
- [10:25]
Eric
Once a month you have your oysters.
- [10:27]
John Russ
Oysters. And. And the music outside, that's one thing. And then we do lunch on the third Friday of every month. Okay. We used. Before COVID we did lunch, you know, four days a week, the Tuesday through
- [10:37]
Eric
Friday, trying to figure out what day is today. It's a Friday. It's this. It's the first Friday of the month, though.
- [10:42]
John Russ
That's correct.
- [10:43]
Eric
Too bad.
- [10:43]
John Russ
No, no. This place would be bustling and honestly, it would be insane in here at this point. But we do. We used to do it all the time. And then to some random, like, Friday before Christmas, I was like, hey, you guys want to do lunch? And my entire staff was like, yeah, sure. We could use the overtime, use the tips. It was, you know, whatever. And it was completely sellout waiting list. And, you know, when we came back from winter break, our staff was like, are we gonna do lunches again? And I was like, only if you want to. Yeah, this is not a me thing. This is a you thing. And everyone was like, yes, we're doing it. And I said, okay, well, you know,
- [11:17]
Eric
that's cool that you give that kind of autonomy, you know, that freedom of choice to your staff too. And in order for anybody to do something, they have to get it. Or for anybody. In order for anybody to do something. Well, I should say they have to get it, want it and have the capacity to do it.
- [11:31]
John Russ
Absolutely.
- [11:32]
Eric
They have the capacity to do it and they understand the job. If they don't want it, they won't show up.
- [11:37]
John Russ
Exactly. Or care.
- [11:38]
Eric
Yeah.
- [11:39]
John Russ
And what's nice about the lunches is we change the menu every single time we do it. There's. It's never static. It's never the same things. I wouldn't say that there's themes that kind of go along to it, but we kind of like pick a topic that we want to throw out there for it. So this February's launch is going to be, you know, kind of based on cheeses. And it's a very heavily cheese oriented menu. There's a. One of my favorite ones is there's a. There's a cheddar called the Tickler. And so we're going to have like a little tickler grilled cheese sandwich with a bunch of stuff on it. But like, things like that where it's like, kind of makes it fun for people. It makes it fun for folks who, you know, don't get a chance to come out for dinner, which is not a huge amount of our people, but it's enough.
- [12:20]
Eric
So you have your oysters and music. You have your lunch. And that's once a month. Lunch is once a month. What other events you do?
- [12:26]
John Russ
Oh, sheesh. So we do Magnum dinners. We do.
- [12:30]
Eric
Is that once a month?
- [12:31]
John Russ
That is once every, like eight weeks. And so the Magnum dinners we have, we have a really big table. It turns into 12 seats. And so a magnum will pour, you know, 12 glasses of wine. Okay. So we'll kind of like find what is a Magnum. Is that a giant bottle? No, that's the like two bottles in one.
- [12:45]
Eric
Oh.
- [12:46]
John Russ
So we'll do five courses set up with Magnums. Then we also do salons, which is essentially like either myself or my wife will do. We both do four times a year. So eight times a year together. Just a menu of things that we really want to eat, but we don't feel like we can actually put on the menu. But we can force people to eat when they come in and sign up for this and they don't know what the menu is. It's actually really fun, but it's opportunities to put like chicken liver parfait or sweet breads or foie gras or any other events. Gosh, I'm sure there are just.
- [13:18]
Eric
Cool. So are these pre. Like, are these two people buy these
- [13:21]
John Russ
events and their experiences? Yes, they buy into it. They know what they're getting into and they prefix.
- [13:27]
Eric
Yes, all the events. But what about your. Your regular daily nightly menu?
- [13:31]
John Russ
Regular nightly menu. We have an a la carte version, which is about 40% of our sales and the other 60 part of our sales is what we call a feed me. Think like a dega station or the degustacion, the tasting menu or whatever. But like, way toned back, like, not so uppity, not so pretentious. It's. We serve it family style. It's foods that are mostly off the menu that we don't kind of really allow other people to order, even if they want to, because it's, you know, things that are, like, out of the farm this week and, you know, like, not going to have a chance to get it again.
- [14:03]
Eric
And that's 60% of your business?
- [14:05]
John Russ
That's 60% of our business.
- [14:06]
Eric
And the margins are that on. That are better, I'm assuming. Assuming.
- [14:10]
John Russ
Yeah, when I'm not screwing up and putting crazy proteins on every course or Chantrell's on four courses.
- [14:15]
Eric
Charge for it. I think people will pay for it if they like it. I think that's something. I mean, not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but I think we are. Could be better about understanding our worth.
- [14:23]
John Russ
Yes.
- [14:24]
Eric
And, you know, we. We give, give, give in this industry at our own detriment sometimes, certainly. So anything else we should know about relative to your portfolio and your business model?
- [14:34]
John Russ
Oh, gosh, I don't think so.
- [14:35]
Eric
So with all that, where are you at with your percent profit?
- [14:39]
John Russ
We do our best to make as much as we can. However, the last two years have been really kind of difficult. So this year was, you know, a different year, and that's kind of how we kind of change a lot of our programming. I think we got to, like, 3% this year and, like, through an extraordinary amount of work.
- [14:54]
Eric
Yeah.
- [14:55]
John Russ
And it was just like a slog to get to that. But we had a lot of room to make up for from 24 and 23. So even that little bit of profit really didn't cover the losses of those two years. But it was, you know, for us, it was a success because just getting to that little bit helped.
- [15:11]
Eric
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're moving in the right direction, and you're not alone, man.
- [15:14]
John Russ
Right.
- [15:15]
Eric
You know, keep in mind, like this, you've gotten industry accolade recognition, the people doing. Also, you have high standards on what you put on the plate.
- [15:24]
You're.
- [15:24]
I'm sure your food costs are not low.
- [15:27]
John Russ
My or our assistant sends us a text every day, and I dread opening it because it's my labor cost and my. My food cost. Every day she. She sends me, like, this is where you're at. This is where you're at.
- [15:38]
Eric
You know where that you're at with your percentages there.
- [15:39]
John Russ
28.6 for today on food. And I don't want to talk about labor right now. Well, we need the revenue from the weekend. Right. You know, it just kind of adds in.
- [15:47]
Eric
But are you afraid to say, or
- [15:48]
do you not know?
- [15:48]
John Russ
Oh, it's over 40 right now.
- [15:50]
Eric
Yeah.
- [15:51]
John Russ
But, you know, it's. It's all prepped for the weekend, and you kind of, like, get that weekend revenue, and it kind of balances out.
- [15:56]
Eric
Do your stat or does your staff have security? Are they being paid well? Are they happy?
- [16:02]
John Russ
I believe so. I know what the average San Antonio chefs are paying their cooks, and we're certainly paying more than that. Our servers. I was trying to find the numbers yesterday. Just. Just so I have it in the back of my head, our servers are doing great job. They really kind of work really hard for every penny that they get. And our server staff has very little turnover. And when I lose a cook, it's not because, like, they're quitting to go work at Denny's or something else. It's like, I've got a guy who's moving back up north in, like, a month.
- [16:32]
Eric
Back to gorgeous.
- [16:34]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [16:35]
Eric
If you knew I was from New
- [16:36]
John Russ
Hampshire, I don't know if you knew I lived in New Hampshire for two and a half years. Yeah. Left North Conway.
- [16:41]
Eric
Pretty great.
- [16:42]
John Russ
Well, long story, but, yeah, I love living up north. It was amazing. Well, Jackson, actually.
- [16:48]
Eric
Okay.
- [16:48]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [16:49]
Eric
Hole in the wall.
- [16:51]
John Russ
The. In it. Not in a paragraph. Shoot.
- [16:56]
Eric
Delaney's Hole in the Wall. Amazing. Sushi.
- [16:58]
John Russ
Yeah. In a Perry cabin. No, that's not it.
- [17:00]
Eric
The Red Parker Pub.
- [17:01]
John Russ
Yeah. Red Parker was down the street in a Thorn Hill. That was it. So Jim and Ibi Cooper were the. My first, like, independent operators I ever really got to work for. And, God, they changed my view on what really changes this industry because they were like, the real mom and pop of an inn. It was wild watching those two work.
- [17:22]
Eric
Oh, man, I love what they're doing up there, too, with the. The restaurant coalition. I think what they're doing. I interviewed a bunch of people part of that coalition, because I think what they're doing to band together to pool resources for marketing is really cool, and I think we can learn a lot from that. But I digress. We are way off subject right now. Just reminiscing over my home state. So my point being, with the. The staff and the. The. The, you know, high labor cost, I'm talking to a lot of people across the country, and I talk to a lot of what people consider to be the best restaurants in town, and you would think that if you're the best restaurant in town, you would be able to, you know, make a decent living and, you know, like, cover your liabilities and create opportunity. And the truth is, it's getting harder and harder for good people to do good work. And by good work, I mean work injected with values, taking care of their staff, offering health care, buying and supporting local food like that shouldn't be hard. And the reality is, it is hard.
- [18:19]
John Russ
Well, it's not alone.
- [18:20]
Eric
It's not hard.
- [18:21]
John Russ
It's expensive.
- [18:22]
Eric
Yeah.
- [18:22]
John Russ
And because it's easy to make the right choices, it's just paying for them is the hard part. Figuring out how to raise that revenue, how to. How to get to that. That level of benefit. That really makes sense. You know, one of the first conversations we ever had when we decided to offer insurance to our staff, which almost none of them get it because it's too fricking expensive, was the conversation was, and because my wife worked for someone who had insurance benefits, and it was, you know, partially paid for, they didn't cover shit. And it was out of pocket for this and out of pocket for that. And by the time we ended up having our first kid, you know, we were like, $10,000 out, and it was insane. Yeah. And so when we were talking about buying insurance for our business and, you know, allowing that to happen, we're like, if we're gonna buy insurance, we're gonna buy something that works and that anyone can go to any doctor that they want to see and not, like, who takes what.
- [19:12]
Eric
Yeah.
- [19:12]
John Russ
You know, like, if you're buying something, you should be able to use it. Yeah. And that. That's a tough one.
- [19:17]
Eric
So let me bring it back to you with 3% profit.
- [19:19]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [19:20]
Eric
Are you able to provide security to yourself and your family?
- [19:23]
John Russ
Certainly.
- [19:24]
Eric
Yeah.
- [19:24]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [19:24]
Eric
I mean, so that means the revenue, the volumes there that you can at least provide yourself security. Yes. And that's where I get worried is that's not the case for everybody in the restaurant industry, where they're giving, giving, giving, and they're putting themselves in a really dangerous place. And how can you show up for your staff or your community if you're not okay?
- [19:40]
John Russ
You know, when you're stressed as an owner, when you're stressed as a chef, it shows.
- [19:43]
Eric
Yeah.
- [19:44]
John Russ
It shows in the food. It shows in the hospitality. We've been really, really lucky with our guests, with our staff, to. To be able to not be in that super stressed part. You know, the things that stress us out are. It's not our level of business.
- [19:58]
Eric
Are you paying yourself? Owners pay.
- [20:01]
John Russ
No.
- [20:01]
Eric
Okay.
- [20:02]
John Russ
We. We. We take a salary at Sometimes. And we haven't gotten a raise since we started eight years ago. And it's relatively low compared to what my staff makes. But it's also, that's how we can afford to pay our staff. It's how we can afford to have an assistant that really helps make our life work. A front of the house manager that makes the front of the house really kick and do great work. Two sous chefs who have incredible talent. And, and if that's the sacrifice that we have to make is, you know, not, you know, making crazy money so that we can make this whole thing
- [20:38]
Eric
work, that's a leader.
- [20:39]
John Russ
That's. Well, but it's also, we're not here to make a million dollars. Yeah. We're middle class people this. And it's okay for us to not drive Ferraris.
- [20:47]
Eric
Right. But I think also being like that is also a leader, you know, like. Like being willing to eat the sandwich so everybody else can have a ham sandwich, you know, and if you sacrifice over time, it builds, it builds, it builds. But you can't do it alone. You need those people.
- [21:02]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [21:02]
Eric
This episode is in partnership with Giving Kitchen. Restaurants run on tight margins and even tighter teams. Anyone who's been in the business long enough knows one injury, one diagnosis in one family emergency can take a great employee out overnight. That's where Giving Kitchen comes in. Giving Kitchen is a national nonprofit that supports food service workers in crisis. They provide emergency financial assistance and connect workers to resources like housing support, counsel, and physical and mental health appointments. Not someday, but when it's actually needed. Since 2013, they've helped more than 35,000 food service workers and awarded over 17 million in support nationwide. This isn't theory. It's cooks, dishwashers, bartenders, and servers being able to keep their apartment, get access to mental health resources, or cover bills when recovering from an injury. Operators keep Giving Kitchen bookmarked, not just in case they ever need it, but because they want their staff to know it exists. If you're in the industry, this is an organization you should know about. Learn more, share it with your team, and find a way your restaurant can stand alongside the work@givingkitchen.org Everyone thinks marketing is the answer to increasing profitability in your restaurant. But the reality, Nothing drives profit more than rock solid operations. And that is precisely why I partnered with the best in the biz, Restaurant Systems Pro. It's time to plan for the new year now. Beginning January 5th, Restaurant Systems Pro will be launching its 30 day Restaurant Mastery Program. You'll get in depth step by Step proven systems to get the money you deserve and create the freedom you want in your life. Here are the systems that they'll be covering. Scheduling, menu engineering, purchasing, inventory, AI invoice processing, bookkeeping, restaurant budgeting, digital checklists, recipe costing and POS integrations. Plus a library of video tutorials and recordings, operational playbooks, flow charts, swipe files, checklists, and a personalized action plan. This makes it 100% ready to be delegated. This 30 day restaurant mastery program is valued at nearly $4,000. But Restaurant Unstoppable listeners can get it for only $97 by going to go.restantassistanspro. net profits. Or you could sign up for Restaurant Unstoppable Community and get access to this training absolutely free as part of your membership. Plus it repeats every month, so you get access in perpetuity. Not to mention you get access to everything that we offer in Restaurant Unstoppable Community like the live events, the recordings for those live events. Ad free Restaurant Unstoppable podcast, the Unstop custom AI agent in more exclusive deals with strategic Restaurant Stoppable Partners. Head over to Restaurant Unstoppable.com live for
- [23:43]
this exclusive restaurant systems pro deal. All right, we are just getting this conversation started, my man. Thank you for getting into that. So where does it make sense to go back? Like, you're from New Orleans?
- [23:53]
John Russ
Yeah, I love New Orleans. I love eating in New Orleans. I love my family in New Orleans. I love the food in New Orleans. I love how New Orleans changed after to Katrina and how it's changing after Covid. I love the, the new young chefs that are in there and really kind of growing the city. I've got kids and I would never raise them in New Orleans. It's. And I have best friends who have kids my, their age. And I'm like, how do you do it? You know, like, we grew up in that. Yeah, exactly. Like, and my wife is like, we are never. And I was like, okay, good. Just want to make sure we're on the same page.
- [24:24]
Eric
I just, oh, man, I don't want to get gruesome, but the one time I, I, I, the second time I think I drove through New Orleans, I rolled up to my Airbnb and I, as we're looking for the Airbnb, there was a woman with her back against the telephone pole squatting and relieving herself. And I was like, I mean, I also don't want to sound insensitive.
- [24:44]
John Russ
It's probably not Mardi Gras either.
- [24:46]
Eric
Yeah. And I don't want to sound insensitive, like this person, you know, to get to that point, things can't be good. Right. And that's sad, but it is.
- [24:53]
John Russ
It is a. I was gonna say that could have been a homeless person or a millionaire. Like, that is New Orleans.
- [24:59]
Eric
Yeah, it is a wild place, for sure. But to your point is it is a rich culture.
- [25:03]
John Russ
Exactly. Yeah.
- [25:05]
Eric
So you moved out because you were there with your wife and you.
- [25:08]
John Russ
Oh, no, no. So I left New Orleans the year before Katrina. I had worked at some really incredible places for some really incredible people. And at that time, I felt like I had worked at the tip top of places, and I was ready to grow and to see some new things. There was an opportunity in Sedona, Arizona. I was really looking forward to changing my lifestyle and got to Sedona, stayed there for about a year, ended up in Naples, Florida for a little bit. That was a really interesting experience. Then I went back to, essentially, Horse Schultze, started a new company called West Paces, and that was the Capella Group, a set of hotels. And we had the. Our training hotel was for the Auburn University, and it was with Don or Dan Cathay or whatever was Chick Fil, a guy. And Horse Schultze started hospitality school at Auburn. And so everyone that worked at the hotel there was also, I wouldn't say like an adjunct professor, but we taught classes. If you were a manager, you were not dealing every day with students, but you were dealing with students on a regular basis. But part of that job was you're going to go open hotels or go fix hotels. And so for my two years, I was in Auburn. I was probably in Auburn for six months. And I was in Germany and Austria and Ireland and back in Germany.
- [26:29]
Eric
Auburn, Alabama.
- [26:30]
John Russ
Auburn, Alabama. I know. Crazy, right? Yeah.
- [26:32]
Eric
Well, I mean, the school's there, right?
- [26:33]
John Russ
Yes.
- [26:34]
Eric
Yeah.
- [26:34]
And it's. No, it's a decent sized school.
- [26:37]
John Russ
Sure.
- [26:38]
Eric
There's money that rose through that town.
- [26:39]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [26:40]
Eric
So real quick, started in New Orleans. You were at the Delgado Culinary in New England or, sorry, New Orleans. That's where you studied. And then from there you went to Sedona.
- [26:51]
John Russ
So New Orleans to Sedona. Yes.
- [26:52]
Eric
Okay.
- [26:53]
John Russ
And then you mentioned one other spot, Naples, Florida.
- [26:55]
Eric
Okay. And this is all before joining the Capella?
- [26:59]
John Russ
That's correct.
- [27:00]
Eric
Okay. Naples. And I had hurt Schultze on the show. That guy is phenomenal.
- [27:05]
John Russ
Really phenomenal.
- [27:06]
Eric
Yeah.
- [27:07]
Speaking about rituals and culture and language and like, that's a lot of where I got that. That knowledge of 26 standards of service. Did he do that with you? Guys.
- [27:16]
John Russ
So when we were at Ritz Carlton, it was 10 standards. And then as we got to Capella, it grew and grew and grew. Yeah, so if it's at 26 right now, I wouldn't be shocked.
- [27:25]
Eric
Yeah, it was really cool. I went through all those standards with him and he. Every day when he starts a shift, they go through one standard and they talk about that standard and they make an example of somebody living that standard. And this is what the best do. They resurface their standards. They make example of their standards and they burn that shit into your brain.
- [27:42]
John Russ
Yeah, exactly. And so there's a. When we started our business, we had both worked for Ritz Carlton a long time ago, my wife and I. And it was before Marriott got Ritz. And there was the 10 standards of service, there was the credo, there was the mission statement. And we knew that as we were starting Clementine, those were going to be things that we needed not to, like, sell our business plan to some investor or to a bank, but those were going to be things that we needed to rely on later on as business owners to say, you know, three years in, we need to make a big decision about, you know, payroll or this or that or the other. We'd have this set of gold standard rules that we needed to look at, and we still live by those every day. You know, every time we have a manager's meeting, we go over one of our standards, you know, and it's very simple. Similar to what Horst is saying, that that experience with Ritz Carlton and Wes Paces and Capella was like, that is the gold standard for this industry. That's how you create consistency, that's how you create culture. That's how you live your statement.
- [28:49]
Eric
Yeah.
- [28:49]
John Russ
You know, and I think that those things are just so incredibly important to any restaurant.
- [28:54]
Eric
Yeah. So during all this time, do you have a vision for yourself, a dream for yourself?
- [29:00]
John Russ
You know, I didn't have that like 10 year plan, but I always knew, you know, in my early 20s that I wanted to own my own restaurant. My first restaurant that I worked at was for Girard and Evelyn Crocer. It was Crojer's French Bistro. And it was just like this little neighborhood restaurant in Metairie, Louisiana. And it was outstanding food. You know, he was from Grenobles and he met his wife there. And they were old enough to be like, growing up post World War II and that. Like those towns that in those cities that were like, absolutely bombed out and so like trying to own a restaurant and so like, they Brought those experiences and that, like, tenacity of like, we're getting this done kind of like food and just. They were the ones who kind of set the gold standard for me because their kids went to, you know, Catholic school, which is essentially private school, but it's, you know, they were well educated. They belonged to a country club. They were certainly middle class. My mom played tennis with, you know, Evelyn. And so there was a life. And I knew that at the end of the tunnel, there could be a life if I wanted to go into this industry. You didn't have to own 10 restaurants. You didn't have to work your teeth to the bone. Yeah. You were going to give up some holidays, certainly going to give up some weddings, certainly going to give up some funerals, but you weren't going to be bankrupt at the end.
- [30:15]
Eric
Right. And you have that freedom to create and if that's important to you, autonomy to build something that's your own. I think we, a lot of us need to express that. We need that outlet.
- [30:24]
John Russ
Exactly. Yeah.
- [30:26]
Eric
So you were here. You went to Sedona, Arizona.
- [30:33]
John Russ
Oh, yeah, right.
- [30:35]
Eric
Beautiful. Gorgeous. If you haven't been, go experience the Vortexes and Naples. Where were you growing the most during this time?
- [30:44]
John Russ
So the place I grew the most was up in Jackson. Okay. So I was in Ireland.
- [30:49]
Eric
New Hampshire.
- [30:50]
John Russ
Yes.
- [30:50]
Eric
And what year was that? Was that of before? Yeah. So this is while you're with the Capella Group?
- [30:57]
John Russ
No, that's. So I was in. I was in Ireland. We were opening a hotel, and I was just sick of living in a suitcase and I was sick of living in the South. I was just like, you know, I had that kind of, like, inflection moment of like, I need to change my situation. Because if I don't do change now, I'm going to end up in this. This company, which is not a bad place to be, but I'm going to end up doing this for the rest of my life. Life. I'm never going to set down roots. I'm never going to have a connection, I'm never going to have a family, blah, blah, blah. And so when I got back home to Auburn, I was like, here's my notice. I'm done. I'm going to go find somewhere else to work. That's where I found Jim and Abby Cooper at the end of Thornhill and went up there, did a tasting, and moved to Jackson, New Hampshire for two and a half years. And my gosh, that's where the growth happened. Because everything I learned at Ritz Carlton, everything I Learned at West Paces and Capella. I got to apply as one singular manager in my own department. I got to say, this is our client, Linda Standard. I got to say, these are our standards of service. And I got to learn, I got to learn from my own mistakes. Being an asshole doesn't always win. Having food on the menu that's super cool, it doesn't work if you can't sell it. You have to have buy in from your front of the house, you have to have buy in from the back of the house. Your concierges have to have buy in to what you do. And so like that growth at two and a half years was just like, right. Explosion.
- [32:20]
Eric
It's one thing to take somebody else's systems and standards and know them and learn them and execute them, but to create your own, to, to enforce your own, to make sure that not just you are operating to the same, the team is operating to the center. Like, what is your advice for somebody who's going through that right now?
- [32:36]
John Russ
Consistency is job security.
- [32:38]
Eric
How do you, like, you can say it every day, but how do you actually, like, make those neural pathways, those habits? Like, how do you like, make that happen?
- [32:47]
John Russ
You know, my wife will tell you, writing lists, you know, and having notes and keeping notes, and I'll say, yeah, 100%, you know, making a plan is kind of where it goes. Knowing where that plan is is important. Keeping that like, very rigid set of like, bullet points of like, very aspirational and philosophical things, things is very important. But you also have to be able to bend. And I think that's the, the biggest place of like, you have to make your plan, but you also have to be able to pivot and make some other decisions. Say, hey, you know what, we love that idea. And that idea fit at the time. However, now our business has to go in this direction.
- [33:29]
Eric
Right.
- [33:29]
And all you can do is take an educated guess as to what the best strategy is.
- [33:32]
John Russ
Right.
- [33:33]
Eric
But when you get to that, that part of the plan where you have to cross the next river and, and you're maybe your plan to cross that river isn't what. There are variables you didn't consider.
- [33:43]
John Russ
Right?
- [33:43]
Eric
Right. So you can't, to your point, you have, you can't be rigid. You have to be able to adapt to, you know, figure it out as you go and pivot the plan.
- [33:50]
John Russ
Right?
- [33:51]
Eric
Yeah.
- [33:52]
John Russ
Case in point. So I was listening to, and I forget what it was. I think it was like probably like NPR's Marketplace or something. And it was December of before COVID and They're talking about restaurants in, you know, China, they're talking about restaurants in and the broader Asia. And they're talking about, you know, how things have changed very quickly for them and how, oh, they've gone through the avian flu, they've gone through this, they've gone through that. Masks are not a big deal, blah, blah. And so I kind of dug a little bit deeper, dug a little bit deeper, kept it on my mind, you know, went through Christmas here. We went through the whole, you know, holiday season, New Year's Eve. And then as we come back in January, we're looking at our numbers and we're like, something's wrong. And we're looking at, you know, the early February numbers. We're like, something's really wrong. And then we get to that February 14th, and we're like, you know what? We have to make a decision. These are our set of decisions that we need to make. This is the data that we have. This is the information that we have. And you know what, going into that day where we told our staff, hey, we're going to shut down for a week or two so we can kind of like figure some things out. Everybody has a job. We have to organize ourselves to be able to do, to go before anyone else in Texas got there, like weeks before anyone else, we were like every night agonizing about it. But we knew, based on numbers, based on data, based on the. The broader numbers that are out there in the world that if we didn't make this decision, we'd be just screwed.
- [35:18]
Eric
Yeah. And educating yourself, staying plugged in. And I think it's so easy to get into a silo. It's so easy to keep your head down and to, you know, just try to survive another day. But you have to get your head out of the four walls of your business. You have to look ahead to what is happening in the greater world so you can recognize these patterns and be prepared for them.
- [35:37]
John Russ
Exactly. One of the things that we've hard lesson. Right. You know it, you know it. You know, when you're signing that first paycheck that you're the one signing those paychecks, that you're responsible for their livelihood. You know, for Lorena and Roger, our employees, you know, for Uriel and Mallory, for, you know, all those people, they have names, they have lives, they have wives, they have husbands. You as an owner are responsible for those people. And if you are shirking that responsibility by putting your hand at the head in the sand, you know, you're not Doing the best thing, A, for your business or B, for your employees. And whether you love them or trust them or not, that's up to you. But, like, on our side, they make it so we can do what we want to do. They make it so, you know, when I'm like, hey, Lorena, let's change the pasta, she's like, okay, what do you want to do? You know, she trusts us, you know, inherently. And that's the world that you have to build within your microcosm of your restaurant. And it. It takes a responsibility. If you want to just be the chef who cooks the food, then go get a job somewhere else. Don't own a restaurant. But if you want to be that leader, that responsibility factor, then you have to do the job.
- [36:41]
Eric
Yeah. 100. So this is 2006. When you're in Jackson, you're there for
- [36:45]
John Russ
two years, two and a half years. Yeah.
- [36:47]
Eric
So until 2008, 2009. It wasn't until 2012 that you moved to San Antonio.
- [36:52]
John Russ
Yes.
- [36:52]
Eric
So what was going on in that. That three, four years before coming to San Antonio?
- [36:56]
John Russ
It's also when the fancy thing happened with the stock markets and the housing and all that. Exciting. And so I took a job in Skinny Atlas New York, which is the Finger Lakes region. Absolutely gorgeous. Just stunning and beautiful. Wasn't there very long because it was just that financial crisis and the owners were changing what they wanted to do, and it just didn't match where I was. And so I just needed a job.
- [37:19]
Eric
Were the executive chef.
- [37:20]
John Russ
I was the executive.
- [37:21]
Eric
This is also around the time you're pivoting away from the hotel world.
- [37:24]
John Russ
Yes.
- [37:24]
Eric
And into the independent.
- [37:26]
John Russ
Trying to. Yeah, yeah. And it was certainly harder at that time. And so I ended up.
- [37:30]
Eric
It's funny, you're. You're leaving the area of security during the hard time. Right. I mean, there is a lot of security in the world of hotels.
- [37:38]
John Russ
Oh, yeah.
- [37:39]
Eric
There's also a lot of rigidity and a lot of. Of politics around, you know, what's the word I'm looking for?
- [37:45]
John Russ
Politics.
- [37:46]
Eric
Well, politics. And
- [37:50]
John Russ
the bottom line is super important.
- [37:52]
Eric
It's a simple world. The word. I can't figure it out, where people band together, workers band together, and unionized. That's the word. Unions. And, you know, like, oh, I can't do that job because it's not in my job description. And like, you know, meanwhile, like, something's, like, pouring out, and you're like, well, I'm not a plumber, so I'm just not going to touch it. Like, that kind of stuff is weird in my mind.
- [38:12]
John Russ
I agreed, if you see a problem, you own it, you resolve it immediately. That's one of our core tenets. That's an old Ritz Carlton core tenet too, you know, and it's like, we're all owners here, you know, we all own our future. And right now, some of your futures are like, as a server, as a cook, or as an owner. But, like, you own your future, and you should be responsible for that future. No one else is.
- [38:33]
Eric
Yeah. So you're pivoting out of that world. You're going into the world of independence. And the dream at this point, you know, now you know, you want to open and own your own restaurants. Yes. Okay.
- [38:41]
John Russ
And then I end up in Maryland at the Anna Perry cabin. Finally, we're there. And that's. There's a good story here. This one's good. I go on as the executive sous chef. The chef is, you know, in a little bit of turmoil. We're trying to run this huge banquet operation, and it's got, like, a bunch of restaurants, but it's like, it's very seasonal because it's, you know, Eastern Shore, Maryland. And the GM of the hotel, really wonderful man. Just one of the smartest people I've ever met in our industry. He's like, hey, we're hiring a new pastry chef. She'll be here later today. I need you to help her find ingredients into whatever she needs. Just help her out.
- [39:21]
Eric
Cue Elise.
- [39:22]
John Russ
Yes. This incredibly beautiful woman walks in, and I'm in a long term, kind of long distance relationship, and I was like, oh, well, you know, whatever. Small town. And so, you know, like, I do the right thing and I give her whatever assistance and, you know, help her find whatever she needs. And through kind of like, looking at the tasting, you know, that. That interview that chefs have to do the tasting, I'm like, holy shit. You know, I had to do four dishes, you know, like, whatever. No big deal.
- [39:52]
Eric
Deal.
- [39:53]
John Russ
She had menardis. She had a wedding cake. She had a birthday cake. She had high end restaurant desserts. She had low end restaurant desserts. She had room service desserts. It was like this whole gamut. I was like, the FNB manager wants her to fail. Like, this is way too much for someone to knock out in 24 hours.
- [40:07]
Eric
And she did.
- [40:08]
John Russ
And Elise walked in, and I was like, holy. Like, okay.
- [40:13]
Eric
Yeah. And then I think pastry chefs are like the. Like, they're the unsung heroes.
- [40:18]
John Russ
Heroes, absolutely.
- [40:19]
Eric
Every day, like, they get in crazy hours. They have to Work around everyone else in the kitchen. And they are like the kind of, like the. The little, like, brother sister that kind of just gets bumped around and they just have to deal with.
- [40:30]
John Russ
That's a whole Another conversation. Yeah, we. I can tell you so much about that, but let me finish the Elise thing. And so FMB manager is like, wow, she really nailed it. And I was like, yeah. And then GMs, like, I think we're going to hire her. And I was like, okay, cool. And he's like, but I think you should know that's my daughter. And I was like, you should not hire her. It's gonna cause a problem. And not like me. Like, this is, like, nepotism. We're in a small town. People get weird about those kind of things. It's. Anytime she has a leadership issue, it's gonna be a real problem.
- [41:00]
Eric
Yeah.
- [41:01]
John Russ
And it did. And that's when Elise and I, you know, at that point, ended up dating. And, you know, we ended up leaving Maryland.
- [41:09]
Eric
Now it's two times the problem. Yes.
- [41:11]
John Russ
Oh, yeah.
- [41:12]
Eric
I mean, you lose two daughter, chef's girlfriend.
- [41:15]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [41:15]
Eric
Who does she think she is?
- [41:17]
John Russ
She's amazing. She's the world. But we both end up leaving.
- [41:22]
Eric
You heard the joking tone in my voice.
- [41:24]
John Russ
Oh, no, she is. She is. She's incredible. She was actually here earlier this morning. Her assistant is out for the weekend. And so she's like, you know, comes in, hammers it out. We have to go to a gala thing tonight. So she's like, I want to get her hair done, and then she'll be back to do more desserts. And I'm like, like, how do you. You know, Matt? And she's like, I got it. But we end up in Texas. And, you know, our plan was like, okay, we're here for a year, maybe two, and then we're going to New Orleans or we're going to Atlanta. And I was like, that was our plan. And we get to the end of our first year, and we're like, all right, where do you want to go? And it wasn't what city, it was where. Do you want to buy a house in San Antonio? Because we're staying here.
- [42:04]
Eric
Yeah, that was a cool time for this market. 2012, it. The past, you know, San Antonio, Austin. I. I first came to San or Austin in 2018. I bumped down to San Antonio. Even from 2018 to today, it's like, world of difference.
- [42:22]
Holy cow.
- [42:22]
Like, South Lamar is, like, unrecognizable, and, like, East Austin is, like, a totally different thing. And it's. And I'm sure I wasn't as familiar with San Antonio, but I mean, I'm just assuming in 2012, you know, that's another, like, six years. Like it was before the boom.
- [42:38]
That.
- [42:38]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [42:39]
Eric
Out here. And it was affordable.
- [42:40]
John Russ
It was like San Antonio is still affordable. Austin, however.
- [42:44]
Eric
Right.
- [42:45]
John Russ
Not so much.
- [42:45]
Eric
Yeah. I could live in Texas, actually try to move to Texas in 2020. It was going to be my year 2020. Who would have thought?
- [42:52]
John Russ
It is. The atmosphere is very different than New Hampshire. I can tell you from living in both places. It is a. It's very different.
- [42:59]
Eric
Yeah. So you moved to San Antonio because of the. The culture, the affordability, the good place to raise a family.
- [43:05]
John Russ
There was an independent restaurant that I had worked for the owner previously in life, and we came to an agreement about, you know, what my job was going to be. And I was there for relatively long period of time. Four and a half years, I think I was at Luke on the Riverwalk. It was just a, you know, just a New Orleans style brasserie. And we realized, you know, if we knew how to make money for other people. And my wife is at this point working for one of the pastry. As a pastry chef at one of the other restaurants, we understood, okay. You know, we feel like we really know San Antonio. We know the guests, we know where we need to be. Let's do this ourselves.
- [43:41]
Eric
Well, I think the other cool thing about your story is you're not just working for other chef or other, you know, restaurateurs. You're getting very involved with the culinary community. Because in 2012, what did you do?
- [43:53]
John Russ
We did Alamo City Provisions, and we did that for a few years, which was, you know, a gang of chefs, all small, independent people. Bartenders, sommeliers. You know, we're like, doing these events. You know, everybody has a course, and the sommeliers or the bartenders would pair the courses. We'd get either crazy music or crazy art and build these experiences for people so we could learn more about each other's guests. We could learn more about the city as a whole. We did one at this art gallery that is like the first we.
- [44:24]
Eric
Are you talking about the other chefs that you're doing this with or you.
- [44:27]
John Russ
Yeah, all the chefs. My wife, this whole group, this cadre of just people. And all of them now own their own businesses. Yeah, every single one.
- [44:36]
Eric
I love that. And I think the best thing you can do if you move to a new market is let your roots grow before you let the. The tree grow.
- [44:44]
John Russ
You need to.
- [44:44]
Eric
You need to network. You need to find out who's who. You need to like you. It is so important to have that network, to know the, the. The ins and out, the politics within that organ, that world, and to develop relationships and build relationships. Those are the roots that you're going to build. That's the foundation. You're going to build your empire.
- [45:04]
John Russ
Exactly. And at the same time, Elise and I were working with San Antonio Cocktail Conference, which was kind of like Tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans, but a San Antonio version. And so I was helpful with wrangling all the chefs, which, you know, like you'd have like 40 chefs on a given night of like these huge cocktail conferences. My wife did the other side of it where she was really kind of working with, you know, purveyors and everybody else to create these incredible parties in crazy locations with, you know, a thousand people. Were going to close down two streets and, and have this crazy block party or whatever. And so we kept into that spirit of we're part of this community, we're part of building a broader food community. And we just love to taste new things and try new things and have fun. And for us, pressure is fun. So it really helped us to learn more about the city.
- [45:58]
Eric
Yeah. So what was Alamo City Provisions in terms of, like, business entity? Was it a business or was it just for fun?
- [46:07]
John Russ
Both, I guess. It was a. It was a learning experience for us. So Elise's dad and mom are both like long term industry people. Her father grew, literally grew up in a restaurant, you know, went to hospitality school and ended up being GM of really big hotels.
- [46:23]
Eric
Was this the same guy when you were telling the story earlier that you said? One of the best.
- [46:27]
John Russ
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [46:29]
Eric
So.
- [46:29]
John Russ
And her mom also. Yeah, like, unbelievably brilliant. You know, the first female food and beverage operator that was a female for Hyatt, you know, Horse Schultze elevated her to that position. So, like, incredible, you know, heritage. And we also had these people to ask questions to.
- [46:45]
Eric
Is it any wonder that somebody that is. That grows up in that world is a badass at their job? Like you mentioned, like, nepotism, but at the same time, it's like, okay, but like, you know, you got two badass individuals, they get together that are just made for this, and they create a spawn that is. Happens to be made for this.
- [47:02]
John Russ
Is that a.
- [47:02]
Eric
Coins? Like, you know, like, I get nepotism, but at the same time, it's like, there's also a bounce of like, we bust our Ass. So we can create opportunity. Yes. For, like, for our family.
- [47:10]
John Russ
Right.
- [47:11]
Eric
Like, there is. There is. I understand nepotism, but I understand human nature. And there's a certain point where it's like, we've fucking, like, created this thing that grew up in this world. You don't expect it to be badass at this point. Yeah. Like, and also, she. He didn't tell you that it was his daughter before. Right. Like, you mean after.
- [47:29]
John Russ
And I was like, you can't do this. But, you know, and he knew. But he also knew that he wasn't going to get anyone of her quality.
- [47:37]
Eric
Yeah.
- [47:37]
John Russ
You know, he had to make a judgment call for the hotel, you know, and I was just like, this is going to make everybody's lives harder at some point, potentially. And he was like, yeah, that's great. I appreciate your comment, but. But this is what we're doing. Yeah.
- [47:51]
Eric
I think there's a bigger, stronger magnifying glass under bigger organizations, you know, because people see that.
- [47:57]
Yeah.
- [47:59]
Anyway, I digress. So you're. You're. You're talking about her parents? Because we're talking about, like, your approach to what you're doing.
- [48:05]
John Russ
Yes. So Alamo City Provisions, you know, they were, you know, guiding forces for everything, you know, and we would have these conversations with them, and we would talk to, you know, other mentors that we had, and, like, how do you build those roots? Roots, you know, how do you get to that space? And it's like, yeah, it's name recognition. There's saturation that's involved. You know, there was a couple of chefs in our group that were, you know, actual business owners with brick and mortars and other ones that worked for other people. But in that realm, like, we were working to build each other's recognition, to build something new. You know, 2012 to 2016 in San Antonio was exciting. Ish. But not really, you know, for food and wine. And they were like. Like people who had money that wanted to spend money to go do things and learn new things and learn about new chefs. And so that's what we're trying to do, is build these opportunities. It was a business, but it was also, like, a hugely important learning operation for Elise and myself and for everyone else in the group.
- [49:00]
Eric
Yeah, I think it's a great way to network. It's a great way to figure out a market. It's low overhead. You can start with a network, literally empty restaurants. And it's a. You can build something that way and. But the most important thing is the relationship.
- [49:16]
John Russ
Yes, exactly.
- [49:17]
Eric
So you spend four years building a network, building relationships, getting your name out there, bumping up against people. Also not sitting a culture from the very beginning that you're willing to talk to other people and you're willing to work with other people. And it's always the people that work together that. That the cream rises to the top.
- [49:39]
John Russ
Right.
- [49:39]
Eric
And I think that's really important, too.
- [49:41]
John Russ
I think that there's a significant space of just being open and honest about what you have going on and willing to grow ideas, to listen to what other people's ideas are and seeing how you can, you know, if not just if it's beneficial to you, but if it's beneficial to the long run of everything, you know, like, hey, how can I help?
- [49:59]
Eric
Yeah. Did I say market research? I think I did.
- [50:01]
John Russ
Right.
- [50:01]
Eric
But just, like, understanding what hits, what it doesn't hit, you know, before you, like, invest in a whole kitchen to build something, to put out one thing, and nobody wants to buy it.
- [50:10]
John Russ
Right, Exactly.
- [50:11]
Eric
So by 2016, you're opening your first restaurant.
- [50:15]
John Russ
End of 17. Early 18 is kind of where it ends.
- [50:19]
Eric
But you started your business in 2016 or was like that.
- [50:21]
John Russ
We started the business in 17. Okay. And so Alamo City provisions was, you know, 12, 13. And we. We ended up doing that for a
- [50:29]
Eric
while,
- [50:31]
John Russ
and by the time we got to the space with Clementine, you know, we had been building the idea of this for years. You know, when we were still in Maryland, we were like, hey, let's.
- [50:42]
Eric
Let's do this dreaming start.
- [50:43]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [50:44]
Eric
Right?
- [50:44]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [50:44]
Eric
It's cool that you got to share a dream from the beginning.
- [50:47]
John Russ
Yes.
- [50:48]
Eric
Yeah. That's really important.
- [50:49]
John Russ
It is incredible to have a partner who is on the same page.
- [50:54]
Eric
Yeah.
- [50:54]
John Russ
You know, almost always.
- [50:56]
Eric
So I gave you a warning in the beginning that I like to talk about numbers. And this is. This is one of those awkward moments where I like to say, how'd you get the money to open?
- [51:05]
John Russ
Okay, here's the best part. We went to people who were like, hey, whenever you're ready, you just come see us. Hey, whenever you're ready, you know, I want to invest in you. And so we went to go see those people, and we're like, all right, this is what we're looking at. And they're all like, never mind.
- [51:22]
Eric
What was scary for the them, what
- [51:24]
John Russ
was just when they actually had to, like, put their fucking money on the table. You know, like, you want to. You say you're gonna invest 50,000 or 100,000 or whatever it is. All right, now it's Time. Here's the paperwork, you know, like, here's a lease, here's this, here's that. And I think that for a lot of people, you know, when doctors are like, oh, I'll open a restaurant, it's, I don't know, it's tough for them to like, separate themselves from like, that money. So finally someone was like, hey, go talk to Lyft Fund. And Lift Fund is a, you know, SBA kind of bank. It's, it's meant for, you know, small businesses. And I was like, here's what I want to do. And they're like, okay, cool, we're not doing restaurants right now, but go talk to People Fund. And so I was like, okay, so go talk to People Fund. Met with this guy, Bill Anderson. Bill Anderson's like, great, let's talk about this business plan. Let's work it out. And it was probably a six month process of, of taking our massive idea, our million dollar restaurant, you know, Is
- [52:22]
Eric
that what you were trying to raise? A million dollars?
- [52:24]
John Russ
That's what we thought we had to do.
- [52:26]
Eric
Yeah. Did you run a pro forma? Did you know that you needed a million dollars?
- [52:30]
John Russ
That's. Oh, yeah, we did all the things that angel investors want to do and you know, all the, all the things that, you know, everyone but a bank wants you to do. Yeah. And so, you know, we go and show up with this. He's like, no, we're not going to do that. This is what we're going to do. What do you actually want to do? What are your long term.
- [52:44]
Eric
So Bill Anderson from People Fund, you gave him a program forma, and he said, we're not going to do that.
- [52:48]
John Russ
He's like, this is, this is awful. Let's. Let's figure out what's good for you in your long term life. And it was like literally a conversation about, you know, we want for our future kids and, you know, house and, you know, what kind of ideals that we have.
- [53:01]
Eric
What was it about your original business plan that he was staring you away from?
- [53:04]
John Russ
He was like, you don't need a million dollars to do what you want to do. A million dollars means you have a million dollars worth of debt, which really means you have like $2 million worth of debt that you are going to be working Sunday brunch. You are going to be working every fricking holiday. The ones you don't want to work.
- [53:17]
Eric
Why does $1 million of debt mean $2 million?
- [53:20]
John Russ
Well, I mean, by the time interest is paid off, by the time you actually open Your restaurant? You know, like, whatever it is, it always increases. You know, the construction guy is like, well, we broke this. Or that didn't come in.
- [53:29]
Eric
You think you have a million dollars, and you're sweet. I have a million dollars.
- [53:32]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [53:33]
Eric
But you don't account for two years of operating capital. Right. You don't account for all the things that you couldn't possibly account for, because who fucking knows?
- [53:40]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [53:41]
Eric
Yeah. So we tend to.
- [53:42]
John Russ
Or like the first round of chairs for our restaurant.
- [53:45]
Eric
Yeah. What's broke? What's that law? I can't remember. It's. Are you familiar with Mike McCallowitz, profit first?
- [53:53]
John Russ
No.
- [53:54]
Eric
He. He states a law that. It's basically like, if I have this plate in front of me and I fill that plate with food, and it's a big plate, I'm going to eat everything on that plate right. Now, if it's a. A small plate with small amount of food, then I'm still gonna eat all that food, but I might be a little less generous with it.
- [54:16]
John Russ
Right.
- [54:16]
Eric
I might not go for all the things I don't need. I got plenty. You know, the same analogy is like when you have a full tube of toothpaste, you should, like, slobbing it on there. In the very beginning, you're like, I got so much toothpaste. This is great. By the time you're at the end of that tube, you're, like, barely scraping
- [54:32]
John Russ
a little bit on.
- [54:32]
Eric
You're like, that's good enough.
- [54:33]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [54:34]
Eric
So what I think it's like the. You tend to use the amount of resources that are at your disposal.
- [54:40]
John Russ
Yes.
- [54:40]
Eric
So if you limit the amount of resources you have, then you are forced to get creative, you're forced to get scrappy, and you're forced to not get in trouble.
- [54:47]
John Russ
Right.
- [54:48]
Eric
And that's the whole idea of profit first.
- [54:49]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [54:50]
Eric
Is like you. If you're a business owner and you're doing a million dollars a year in revenue, you take 10% of that, a hundred thousand dollars, and you put it away. You don't touch it. And then that goes into savings, you know, paying off debt. And then you also take like, oh, I want to make 10%. So I'm going to give myself 10% owner's pay, and that's my salary. And then that gets. And then tax. That's not my money. I want to take another 10% and throw that into another checking account, and we're going to just pay that month or quarterly. Right. So now you're taking 30% of that $1 million. Yeah. And you really only have $700,000.
- [55:24]
Right, right.
- [55:24]
So now you're like, oh, well, with
- [55:25]
that, I need a.
- [55:26]
You know, I have my fixed costs, like, rent, all this stuff, and you start, like, whittling away, and then you're left with like a 30 operational expense account, and you have 30% of $100 million to actually do with. Right now. You have $300,000.
- [55:41]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [55:41]
Eric
So but if you. If you take all this and if you put all that money in a big plate, you're just gonna take it off the plate.
- [55:47]
John Russ
Right.
- [55:47]
Eric
But if you put it on little
- [55:48]
small plates and say you allocate all this stuff. But to. To your point, if you have a million dollars, you're going to spend a million dollars.
- [55:55]
John Russ
Yeah. Oh, exactly. And that's one of the things that we kind of learned, you know, and it was a lot of hard conversations because it was like, we now really don't want to do brunch anyway. You know, like, if we have to do brunch to make it work, then we need to find another number. If we have to work on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day or Thanksgiving Day, then we need to find a new number to make this work and, you know, go from a million dollars. I think our final, like, sign on the line loan was $157,000 with, you know, $40,000 that we had on our own.
- [56:26]
Eric
So how do you go to a million to 157,000? Like, where did he help you cut the.
- [56:30]
John Russ
It was just, you know, do you really want to just do five days a week? Okay, cool. So let's look at revenue sets for that. You know, you're not going to do this. You're not going to do that unless you get this, you know, unicorn location. But then with this unicorn location, you're going to have this. And just little things that you don't really think about until it's, you know, hammer time of like, let's get an architect in there to see. There was one location we loved. Love, love, loved. And architect came in. He's like, look, I'm with you here, but you're gonna have a plumbing issue, because this is here and this is there, and that's $300,000.
- [57:02]
Eric
Yeah.
- [57:02]
John Russ
And I'm like, well, then this is a no.
- [57:04]
Eric
Yeah.
- [57:05]
John Russ
You know, and you hear that enough times from architects or contractors or if
- [57:09]
Eric
you had a million dollars.
- [57:10]
John Russ
Yeah, if you had a million dollars, you could do it. But then you're taking 300 grand to do a fucking plumbing project.
- [57:15]
Eric
And that's where people get in trouble. So what this guy did, again, his name is Bill Anderson, he helped you. You had a vision.
- [57:21]
John Russ
Yes.
- [57:22]
Eric
For yourself and your wife and what you wanted to do. But he helps you refine that vision to say, what quality of life do you want exactly? How much do you want to work? And if that's what you. Is really important to you, then think smaller.
- [57:33]
John Russ
Yes. And think send. Second generation spaces.
- [57:36]
Eric
Yeah.
- [57:36]
John Russ
You know, don't think building from scratch. And so second generation space. Shit, I don't even know what this generation is here. We've been here for eight years. This started as a. Phil Romano opened up a shabu shabu restaurant called Sticks.
- [57:50]
Eric
Phil Romano?
- [57:51]
John Russ
The.
- [57:51]
Eric
How do I know that name?
- [57:53]
John Russ
No, no, the. The guy.
- [57:55]
Eric
Speaking of Ray Romano.
- [57:56]
John Russ
Yeah, he does, like, macaroni grill and all those kind of things. You know, this. This was a test restaurant for something. Like when this whole strip center opened in, like, the late 80s, early 90s, and Kenny Rogers Roasters was here, there was. There's multiple versions of different Italian restaurants. IHOP Express, if you've ever heard of that. Like, this was an IHOP Express, which is. You know, honestly, the blue tile in the kitchen is IHOP Express standard.
- [58:23]
Eric
Yeah. We're looking at like 1700 square feet. 1600 square feet.
- [58:27]
John Russ
15, 50, 15.
- [58:28]
Eric
I'm getting good. Yeah, I'm getting good at looking, like, I go into a lot of spaces and I try to figure it out. I think I was like, four seats off when I said, how many seats you have?
- [58:35]
John Russ
Yeah. And, you know, so we. We really looked at, like, what it was and what we needed. And we had been to this restaurant for a dinner before, and we're like, no, it's too small. No, it's too small. No, we don't really know that part of town. So it was like a no.
- [58:49]
Eric
Yeah.
- [58:49]
John Russ
And then someone was like, hey, you should go look at it again during the day. And so I went and I looked, and the guy had it for sale and not even for sale. He was like, you can buy me out of my lease.
- [58:59]
Eric
Exit strategy.
- [59:00]
John Russ
Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's all you want? How much do you want for your lease? Yeah, and. And ask him the questions. Like, hey, do you have this? Hey, do you have that? And I was like, hey, do you have a grease pit? Or like, how does it work? He's like, I don't know, but I never have to empty the trap. And I was like, okay. So I went out back and I didn't know about the history of this place. I go up, back, and there is, like, two dungeons of grease traps.
- [59:24]
Eric
Wow.
- [59:24]
John Russ
Like, I was like, oh, okay, that's $40,000. I don't spend. Yeah. IHOP, they overbuilt. And, you know, so, like, I get to benefit from that, you know, like, our electrical set in here is incredible because of someone else's overbuilding, but it's. Every time I looked at, like, something that I didn't have to do, I didn't have to buy a hood. All right, that's 60 to $100,000, depending on, you know, like, how many square feet you have and blah, blah, blah. Okay. And so, like, kept whittling it down. I was like, okay, I need china, glass and silver. I need a paint job. I need to do some decor. I need opening inventory and need some capital for a few months, just in case.
- [60:01]
Eric
Yeah. Sidebar. My, like, hidden dirty dream is that we can turn around the industry and we can have all these giant corporations go out and build this infrastructure across the country, and then people no longer want to eat at those places.
- [60:17]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [60:17]
Eric
And there's just turnkey operations for independent operators.
- [60:21]
John Russ
That's what it is.
- [60:22]
Eric
That is my dream. There.
- [60:23]
John Russ
There. There are projects that are happening in San Antonio right now, and I'm like, okay, that's not going to happen for four more years. But they're luring people in to get those spaces now. And I'm like, that is going to be a money maker in four years or five years.
- [60:37]
Eric
And what scares me right now is developers. All these new developments you see being built across America, they're the same developers, and they have the same relationships, and they're with the same giant companies that. That before the land is even, like, built, they already know what restaurants they're putting into that and that. There's just these relationships of, like, so you have all this money that's coming into a community, and the opportunity is going to somebody in New York or Los Angeles, and they're just, like, growing these franchises because they don't want to
- [61:06]
do the work to find the people to go into that space or take a risk on a local business.
- [61:09]
Right. You know, it's. They want to go to the path
- [61:11]
John Russ
of least resistance because they want to know what their returns could have be, you know, so that way they can finance the project, so they can look at the project and I get it.
- [61:18]
Eric
Yeah. From a business perspective.
- [61:19]
John Russ
Yeah. There's a. There's. There's this organization called Automatic. Dude. Okay, so I'm gonna be.
- [61:26]
Eric
I spoke to Eric literally two days ago.
- [61:28]
John Russ
Unbelievable.
- [61:29]
Eric
Right.
- [61:29]
John Russ
Like that guy is, he really opened my mind about you know, co tenancy and like as we grow, you know like our lease is over in like a year and a half and so like what's going to happen here? Like what kind of future do we have here if our if our landlords don't want to like step up and make the right decision?
- [61:47]
Eric
This episode is made possible by US Foods. It takes more than great food to run a kitchen these days. With US Foods, More means consistently high quality products, industry leading tools, inflexible deliveries that let you grow your business on your schedule. Whatever your goals, US Foods helps you turn them into reality. As a US Foods customer, you'll gain access to their industry leading moxy platform which doesn't just make it easy to place your US Foods order, but it uses AI powered technology to help you take more control of your business and increase profitability. You can also explore the latest issues of Food Fanatics magazine from US Foods. In each issue you'll find real world success stories, bold culinary inspiration and practical profit boosting ideas you can put to work immediately. Visit usfoods.com expect more to learn how to become a US Foods customer again, that's usfoods.com expect more this episode is brought to you by Restaurant Technologies, the leader in automated cooking oil management. Unstoppable restaurant owners know which services to keep in house and which services to outsource and oil management is one of
- [62:58]
those things you should outsource.
- [62:59]
Their Total Oil Management solution is an end to end closed loop automated system that delivers, monitors, filters, collects and recycles your cooking oil, eliminating one of the dirtiest jobs in the kitchen. Create a more efficient food service operation and ensure consistent food quality with a safer, smarter and sustainable cooking oil solution. Restaurant technology services over 45,000 customers nationwide, including countless past guests on the show. Automate your oil and elevate your kitchen by visiting RTI Inc.com or call 888-779-5314 to get started.
- [63:41]
Eric I'm going to say his name wrong. I think Weather Holzer. Rather Holtz.
- [63:47]
John Russ
Yes.
- [63:47]
Eric
Yeah. So they're based out of Atlanta. I don't know if I'm I, I know that they do an invite only summit. So I don't know if I'm not supposed to talk about that. I should probably stop talking about. I don't know how secret they want it to be because they want to stay safe. They want to be.
- [64:02]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [64:03]
Eric
Selective. They don't want it. They want to be like they don't want media coming in. And ironically I reached out to him and I was like, I heard about you're doing that, you're doing this thing. And the reason why I was interested in that is because they're really trying
- [64:14]
John Russ
to
- [64:16]
Eric
create opportunity for local restaurant tours. Yeah. But they don't want to work with just anybody because the quality of the restaurateur that goes into that space can instantly add like $2 per square foot to all the space that's around that.
- [64:29]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [64:30]
Eric
Yeah. So.
- [64:31]
John Russ
Or the right, you know, retail or the right amount of, you know, where people live above, you know, with the right amount of like thoughtful approaches instead of just like, hey, we're going to build 80,000 square feet of bullshit, you know, you can say, hey, let's have, let's build more of our community here.
- [64:48]
Eric
Yeah. And the beautiful thing about what he's doing is that he's realizing, oh wait, there's value in Seoul. Yeah. There's. Maybe it's more work, maybe it's more lifting. But if I have an 8 million square foot facility and I can get two more dollars out of each one of those square feet, then it's worth the extra lift.
- [65:09]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [65:09]
Eric
Because you know, and, and that money staying local.
- [65:12]
John Russ
Yes.
- [65:13]
Eric
So anyway, I have a whole bunch of thoughts on that model. To the mixed use.
- [65:18]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [65:19]
Eric
Because I'm like a, like human evolution, evolutionary psychology, evolutionary biology, anthropology.
- [65:26]
John Russ
Right.
- [65:26]
Eric
I think the more we learn about our past, the more we figure out how we, we evolved to opt. Be optimal.
- [65:31]
John Russ
Right.
- [65:31]
Eric
The better we should lean it out.
- [65:33]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [65:34]
Eric
And the cool thing about mixed use space is that it's pockets of communities. So like when we're colonizing America, like each town was small. I think the largest town in like 1800 or the largest city in 1800 was Paris. And it was like 2 million people.
- [65:52]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [65:53]
Eric
Now like Oklahoma City has 2 million people. You know, like we were never meant to live like this. We're meant to live in smaller villages and that was community and that was security. And I think what's cool with these, these mixed use developments where you have restaurants, condos, barber shops, you know, like office space is that is a small community that can be self sustaining where you have your restaurant, your communal, like, you know, you can get your hair done, you can go to the barber.
- [66:20]
It's, it's.
- [66:21]
John Russ
But then you also see the same people every day.
- [66:23]
Eric
Yes.
- [66:24]
John Russ
You get to actually build a community of people instead of just like locations of shit.
- [66:29]
Eric
I guess my point is, is like when we're colonizing America when we have like a, like a, a pub in the middle of that town.
- [66:34]
John Russ
You were saying earlier, if my plate is this big, I'm going to fill my plate.
- [66:38]
Eric
Exactly.
- [66:38]
John Russ
And that's what we did as Americans. As you know, however you want to look at that, that conversation, we took up the space that we had and now we're looking at the conversation and saying that was a bad idea. We should probably try and build, build walkable cities. We should try and build cities that have a tax base that is actually like you can, you can realize that amount.
- [66:58]
Eric
Right.
- [66:59]
John Russ
Where cities aren't going bankrupt.
- [67:01]
Eric
Right. Towns are like, we're like 2, 000 people, 1,000 people.
- [67:05]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [67:05]
Eric
That's how many people live in one of these mixed use developments today. And it's like everything was around like the center of town, you know, was walking distance, horse and buggy. But anyway, I think that that's a really interesting model that could be used if. But talking about this kind of stuff, letting restaurant owners know that this is the on the horizon. And the more involved you get, the more you can influence, the more you can talk to local city. Oregon Ordinance to keep out the big guys.
- [67:30]
John Russ
Right.
- [67:31]
Eric
You know, like you want access to our people, our community. Well, you got to do it through us.
- [67:35]
John Russ
Right?
- [67:36]
Eric
You know, I think it's getting proactive anyway. I'm super digressing right now.
- [67:40]
John Russ
No, no, it's a good space to be in. You know what like on our side. One of the big reasons why I went to the automatic I went to was because I also work with our local cities economic development council. And for us, it's like our little city of Castle Hills that we're in. It's not a huge city. You know, it's like 5,000 or so people, but it lives on its taxes. You know, like the roads get done because of taxes, the schools get done because of taxes. All those things get done because of taxes. Taxes. So what kind of like tax base does a city, whether it's 5,000 or 5 million people, need to have to support itself without having to raise bonds and raise bonds and end up, I don't know, bankrupt. Yeah, you know, because like as soon as you start bankrupting cities, you know, you really want to talk about like defund the police. That's how you defund the police is break your tax base and. But you also lose your education. You also lose community services for the elderly, for the, the people who are special. You lose so much too is in
- [68:40]
Eric
big cities you need this, these things
- [68:42]
John Russ
because much bigger Infrastructure.
- [68:44]
Eric
You also, and this might be a controversial statement, much bigger infrastructure, but also lower quality of relationships where people are disposable. And people go to these cities because they. They need the support. And the only way they can get the support is through this. The city programming.
- [68:59]
John Russ
Right.
- [68:59]
Eric
If we spread the F out and we have smaller towns and where people aren't just numbers, but they're. Sally, Joe, John. I got a job for you. I got a room for you. You're not just a random person on the side of the. We can't physically, mentally handle that many relationships. We. It's not possible.
- [69:16]
John Russ
No.
- [69:17]
Eric
So if we spread out and keep
- [69:18]
the numbers smaller, then people don't become
- [69:21]
homeless people, they become people. Sally needs help. John needs help. Who do we know that can help this person? And you don't see homeless people in the country.
- [69:29]
John Russ
Right.
- [69:29]
Eric
Because the, The. The. The infrastructure is not there to. To help them stay homeless. You know, people. Community comes together and they do something about it.
- [69:38]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [69:39]
Eric
You know, anyway, I digress. Again. So that's completely all over the place today, man. Back to your story. You have this bill, Bill Anderson, who helps you kind of say, you know, start small.
- [69:49]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [69:49]
Eric
And you can have that $1 million restaurant when the cash flow, your own cash flow is there to pay for it.
- [69:55]
John Russ
Right.
- [69:56]
Eric
So how much did it cost to get into this space? All in.
- [69:59]
John Russ
So to take over the lease was 40 grand and then 157 on the sign line. And then we took on a little bit of credit card debt just to. Huh. The smart way to say it is Discover had like a zero percent cash back bull. Like one of those stupid things for a year. And we took advantage of it to kind of upgrade a few things like once we got going. So it was like maybe 210 all in. And our first year's budget numbers was like, okay, this is what we plan on if we do this, if we do that. You know, working for Ritz Carlton and West Paces gave us like a lot of that. Like, okay, how do you create a budget, you know, world. Our best expectation was like maybe 750. And within three months we're like, we need to revise our budget. It. We need to revise our staffing. We need to figure out very quickly how to grow because our first year we ended up at like 1.6. And. And that's when we're like, all right, this is. We're good. We just need to figure out how to keep it controlled without it going too crazy.
- [71:06]
Eric
Got it. Can I be completely Honest with you, I was so still, like caught up in that. That former conversation we were having that my mind was racing like half of that. So I asked, this is. What was the number you needed to get inside?
- [71:21]
John Russ
So 40,000 to take over the lease with. With just buying this guy out. But it ended up being about 210, you know, on opening day.
- [71:28]
Eric
Okay.
- [71:29]
John Russ
About a month after opening day, it ended up being about 210.
- [71:32]
Eric
Okay. And. And I mean, that's just so much more approachable for a first time restaurant tour.
- [71:36]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [71:37]
Eric
You know, so what. What were the biggest challenges getting open for you?
- [71:45]
John Russ
None. We found an incredible contractor. We had an outstanding architect, both who worked really well together. The city of Castle Hills came through and they did their inspections and they literally gave us like, this is what you need to fix. This is how you fix it. And please let us know when you want us to come back. And when we fixed it, we asked them to come back, and they did come back. TABC was. You know, everybody complains about alcohol and tabc. Yeah, it's a process. It takes time, but as long as you get in line and you do the thing, it's obscenely easy. Staffing is always the hardest thing because you're trying to find people that you really like, that you want to hang out with with for like 60 hours a week. So that's always kind of like a hard thing. But, yeah, that's perpetually hard.
- [72:34]
Eric
And he had a massive network. Because you spent the last four years socializing.
- [72:38]
John Russ
It was a lot of people saying to people, like, no, I don't want to hire you. Yeah.
- [72:43]
Eric
Well, have times changed since 2016?
- [72:45]
John Russ
Well, it was like, you know, you know who they are, you know, their work habits, you know, their good habits and their bad habits. It's like those things. Yeah. But honestly, one of the. We didn't have a hard time opening. It was. It was a hard time of figuring out what. What this is really worth and making sure that we could charge appropriately and have the right expectations.
- [73:05]
Eric
Yeah. So when did you start? You know, I'm sure it hasn't been all rainbows and butterflies and sunshine. Like, when did you hit your first struggle? Congratulations on 10 years, by the way.
- [73:21]
John Russ
Eight years. But yes, that's right. The first real struggle, man, to think about it like, as a struggle was like, really Covid, you know, and it was really just like, the struggle was like, we made a decision and then living with it until we realized, you know, like, okay, we made the right decision. Everybody else is doing this, and then like, it turned into not a struggle. When Elise kind of looks at me one day while we're. Because every night we would go and sit on our porch, whether it was hot or cold, and we'd open a bottle of champagne because it was like, if this is the end of the world, fuck it, drink the champagne.
- [73:56]
Eric
Right? And so how I feel about the world right now, I'm like, if, like, if this is universal, high income is taking over, if China is going to own America, like, I'm just going to do what the fuck I want right now because I might not have a chance to do it.
- [74:07]
John Russ
Exactly. Yeah. And so she looks over at me and she's like, I paid off all the loans.
- [74:14]
Eric
Wow.
- [74:14]
John Russ
And it's. We're still doing everything to go. You know, I have a cadre of, you know, former hostesses and food runners that are taking orders and running food to people's cars every day. You know, like, we're in here, like. So our feed me menu, when you're in house in a regular night is five savory courses in a dessert, and it's shared between two people. As we were building our to go plan for Covid, I was like, we need to get our feed me so it stays. So, like, because you know it's going to be over in six weeks, right. You know what they kept telling us? I was like, so we need to like, pound into people's heads at the feed me is the way to go. And I knew at the time to feed two people, you could go to Whataburger and spend 25 bucks a person. So I was like, we need to compete with Whataburger. We don't need to compete with all the other restaurants. We don't need to compete with like the high end steakhouses doing to go. I need to compete with the lowest common denominator. That's Whataburger. It's McDonald's. So our price point, entry level to feed me five courses, so it's four. Saving one dessert per person and not family style, was 25 bucks.
- [75:16]
Eric
Okay. So for two people, is that 50 people?
- [75:18]
John Russ
50 bucks.
- [75:19]
Eric
Okay.
- [75:19]
John Russ
Right. And that's not wine. That's not anything else added on. You didn't even have to tip, you know, like, it was just whatever menu changed every single day.
- [75:29]
Eric
Wow.
- [75:30]
John Russ
Like, through the whole to go period, we never had the same menu. We would cook the same entrees every now and then because we knew that, you know, hey, I need to make a shitload of money today. All right. We're Gonna do fried chicken.
- [75:40]
Eric
Yeah.
- [75:40]
John Russ
And that's one.
- [75:41]
Eric
That's one of the challenges with managing costs. When your food costs are different every day.
- [75:45]
John Russ
Right.
- [75:45]
Eric
When you're. When you can, you know, engineer your menu and have it be fixed for even a quarter.
- [75:51]
Right.
- [75:52]
Then you know to the penny what your theoretical cost is and what your actual cost is. Because you can, like, scale it out. You can get controls, you can create systems to keep it controlled. Yes. But when you're changing it every day, that is hard to.
- [76:06]
John Russ
It was at the period of time where it was, like, hard to find this or it's hard to find that. So it's like, okay, what do they have? You know, where can I find this? You know, like, it wasn't writing a menu based off of, like, what I want to do. It was like, okay, let's go see what like is in what Labat our broadliner has. Let's look at what Farm Table has. Let's look at, like, what all our purveyors have, and let's build a menu off of that, because essentially, we'd have to order it, you know, like, way out so that we could actually get it. Because otherwise, like, if you didn't essentially get it while it was on their list, it was gonna be gone very quickly.
- [76:37]
Eric
Yeah.
- [76:37]
John Russ
And so we would just, like, buy things sometimes and be like, all right, we need to deal with this.
- [76:41]
Eric
So you're buying what is affordable they have now, and then you're saying, how can we use it?
- [76:46]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [76:46]
Eric
So you're getting. You're purchasing the. The. I don't want to say cheap, but the.
- [76:50]
John Russ
The affordable options. Yeah.
- [76:52]
Eric
Yeah.
- [76:53]
John Russ
And, you know, there was. There were things that, like. Like, kind of shocked me sometimes. I'm like, wow, how are fresh chicken so cheap right now? Right. And it's like, okay, we're gonna do chicken three times the next, you know, seven days.
- [77:04]
Eric
Yeah.
- [77:04]
John Russ
Let's figure out how to make it work.
- [77:05]
Eric
Well, that's kind of the. When you. When you have, say, a fajita concept.
- [77:08]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [77:09]
Eric
That fajita used to be the cheap cut until everybody wanted to put fajita on their menus. And, like, Mexican restaurants, like, blew up, and now fajita is not cheap anymore.
- [77:18]
John Russ
Well, that. And. Well, long longer story of that.
- [77:21]
Eric
That.
- [77:21]
John Russ
And the Japanese and Korean markets are open to American beef again. Yeah. And so, like, they also like those pieces of meat because they have the most flavor. Yeah. And so it's.
- [77:30]
Eric
You know how to cook it. It can be delicious.
- [77:31]
Yes.
- [77:31]
Yeah. You know, low and slow, baby. So there's that, you know, like, brisket's another one. Like brisket. All these things that were cheap, insanely expensive, Right?
- [77:40]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [77:40]
Eric
Because everybody wants to do barbecue, so love to hear that.
- [77:46]
John Russ
Your.
- [77:46]
Eric
Your cost costs doing elevated food. Your. Your food cost is below 30. I think that's awesome.
- [77:52]
John Russ
We shoot for 27. Okay. Is our. Is. Is our conversation point of, like, you know, like, why are we over 27?
- [77:59]
Eric
But on the flip side, to have a staff that can take whatever is the best deal right now and to make it something delicious, that's not cheap, you're not paying somebody off the street
- [78:10]
John Russ
12 bucks an hour.
- [78:13]
Eric
Like, they need to know what they're doing. And that. That comes with cost.
- [78:15]
John Russ
Yes, they. They really do. And our line staff right now is unbelievable. And if I could afford to pay them more, I would. And every day that. That. That's our conversation is, you know, how do we scale this so that we can pay our staff more?
- [78:28]
Eric
Right.
- [78:29]
John Russ
So that's a hard conversation.
- [78:31]
Eric
Yeah. Well, I think you can't do it alone, man. It has to be. It has to be a collective action and not just within the industry. It starts with. With within the industry, but it has to ripple out to communities.
- [78:41]
John Russ
Oh, yeah.
- [78:41]
Eric
And it starts with people banding together and sharing these values and getting people on board. And we say, hey, it's better for you too.
- [78:49]
John Russ
Right. You know, it's better for everyone that we don't pay minimum wage to the people cooking food.
- [78:54]
Eric
And I think we can probably shelf that for, like, later in the conversation, because I'm sure we'll get there. But back to 2020, only six years ago, you. You're paying attention to the. The national global trends. You're ahead of the curve.
- [79:08]
You shut down.
- [79:08]
You put a plan together. You're doing to go.
- [79:11]
You out of.
- [79:12]
To go develop this new hungry. What was the name of the thing that you.
- [79:17]
John Russ
So when we opened, we opened. It's our Feed me.
- [79:20]
Eric
Feed me.
- [79:20]
John Russ
So long story short on that one is there was a place called Tony Angelo's in New Orleans that I worked at when I was a kid. I was a busboy. And in my head, I was like, as a fat kid in New Orleans, like, this is the way that you should run every restaurant is like, get the Feed me. Yeah. You know, and it's like the waiter at Tony Angelo's was kind of decide, like, hey, you know, it's Lent in New Orleans. Like, okay, no meat. You know, it's fine. You know, and so, like, at Tony Angelo's, you can get like all the pastas and salads and everything else and, like, be in a great spot. And so as a kid, I was like, that's what I want to put on my menu whenever I own my own place. And so it was a gamble for us. We're like, okay, like, let's see what happens with this.
- [79:55]
Eric
Yeah.
- [79:56]
John Russ
Day one, it's like people are ordering it and it was like, day one, it was also 56 bucks.
- [80:02]
Eric
It's kind of nice. Like, I don't think we realize the psychology of what happens, you know, when people's. Or reading your menu.
- [80:08]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [80:08]
Eric
The. When you have a five page menu, the sure overwhelm of, like, I don't want to decide.
- [80:12]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [80:12]
Eric
If you sit down, you're like, this is what's for dinner. Sweet.
- [80:15]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [80:16]
Eric
Like, thank you. Because I know it's going to be good. That, that, that frictionless experience of, like, cool.
- [80:22]
John Russ
Yeah. And on our side, you know, when people commune, they eat together. Like they're at home. They're more apt to enjoy themselves.
- [80:28]
Eric
Yeah.
- [80:29]
John Russ
You know, when it's like, this is my plate, this is my boundaries, you know, people get a little bit weird about that. And so we want people to feel comfortable. You know, we built this as a neighborhood restaurant, not as fine dining, not as anything else. Like this is. You'd find this in New Orleans, you'd find this in Atlanta. You'd find this in almost every other major food city. For some reason, San Antonio is not a big neighborhood restaurant city. And that's what we wanted to do. And that's, you know, that's one of our things that we hope to inspire other chefs to do is like, you can have a good life. You can raise a family. You're gonna work harder than you would at the Hilton. But then you get to be the decider. You get to be the person who makes the food. You get to be creative. Yeah. You get to be a leader. You get to write checks, you know, like all the.
- [81:12]
Eric
And I was crapping on cities earlier today, but I will say this about western cities. Cities, they're not the same as eastern cities where you don't have millions of people on an island.
- [81:23]
John Russ
Right.
- [81:23]
Eric
You know, like, San Antonio has what is a square mile footprint.
- [81:28]
John Russ
It's freaking huge. I have no idea.
- [81:29]
Eric
It's a massive city and it's spread out.
- [81:32]
You would never.
- [81:32]
You could be in any part of San Antonio and not know that you're in, like, the third largest city, second
- [81:38]
John Russ
largest city in Texas, the seventh largest city in the United States.
- [81:43]
Eric
Right.
- [81:43]
John Russ
Right.
- [81:43]
Eric
Because it's so spread out big.
- [81:45]
John Russ
But it's also. There's a lot of folks here. Yeah.
- [81:47]
Eric
But it's. It is sprawling and it's.
- [81:49]
And it's.
- [81:49]
It's. It's just like community upon community upon community. And it does have that more small town vibe.
- [81:56]
John Russ
Oh, certainly. Yeah. And that's one of the big reasons why we love this place.
- [81:59]
Eric
Yeah. So back to this. This business model of the Feed Me plans before this. Were you doing Prefix?
- [82:08]
John Russ
So we had the Feed Me. The Feed Me on our menu from day one. Oh, okay.
- [82:11]
Eric
But you just leaned into it. It.
- [82:13]
John Russ
We. I was like, this has got to be the thing. We have to give people value.
- [82:16]
Eric
I thought that came out of the pandemic.
- [82:17]
John Russ
No, we, We. We. We had it on and it was successful before. But I was in my head, you know, as we were talking about, like, what we need to do to like, really kind of come out of it successful. And because we had. None of us had knew how long it was going to take, but everyone was telling us, you know, six to 18 weeks, you know, this will be done before the end of the year,
- [82:35]
Eric
blah, blah, blah, everyone will come, try it, and then they'll be done with it. Yeah, yeah.
- [82:39]
John Russ
And none of that happened. Right. So, like, we're doing this Feed Me concept and we're just rocking and rolling. But I was like, when we're done with whatever this is, I need people to remember this about us, that this is what we do. This is how we operate. This is our offering. Yes. To go is 25 bucks. When you come and enjoy it with us, it's going to be, you know, 60 bucks or whatever, but there's going to be more value to it. You know, we got to a point a few years ago where we had to raise. Raise the price. And so we had to figure out how to make it a little bit more valuable. And so we said, except for one dessert and one first course, the entire Feed Me, unless you have special needs, the entire Feed Me is off menu food.
- [83:19]
Eric
Okay.
- [83:21]
John Russ
And that's how we kind of build a little bit of value. We also do, like a minor Ds.
- [83:24]
Eric
FOMO.
- [83:25]
John Russ
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [83:26]
Eric
The psychology of that. Like, I don't want to, like, I want that special thing that no one else can get.
- [83:30]
John Russ
There are nights where people are like, I really want that pasta. And I was like, it's 88 bucks bucks. They're like, for pasta. I was like, yeah, but you also get all the other things.
- [83:37]
Eric
Right?
- [83:38]
John Russ
You know, like, it's totally Worth it.
- [83:40]
Eric
To get the one thing you need to get everything. So you're upselling people. Do you have another thought? I want to cut you short.
- [83:45]
John Russ
No, no, you're good.
- [83:47]
Eric
So I, I remember my train of thought and I was getting into the idea. Well, it makes sense that your cost of goods is low because with a prefix meal and what percentage of your customers opt into the prefix?
- [83:58]
John Russ
About 60.
- [83:59]
Eric
That's right. So that is so much more manageable cost wise because you, you know exactly how, how many you are going to make. Right. Like, you know, like what? I feel like you can plan for that, but you don't pre sell them, do you?
- [84:11]
John Russ
No, we don't.
- [84:12]
Eric
Okay. I mean, but get into why that from a cost point is more manageable.
- [84:20]
John Russ
Okay. So we get a fish list like four days a week from this fishmonger in Austin. And they're incredible. They're working with small boats, small docks, they're working with small independent fishermen. And sometimes on the list they'll be like, I've got 20 pounds of this or I got 10 pounds of that. And you're like, oh, hell yeah. Like, okay, I'll take 10 pounds of that, take 20 pounds of this, 5 pounds of that, and that's gonna be my feed me for two nights. A big restaurant looks at that. They only have 10 pounds of x, y or Z and say, I can't do anything with that. I can't put that on my menu. I can't even do a special with 10 pounds of X, Y or Z on our side. You know, when Yuri and I are looking at the list, we're like, oh, well, this would be really fun to work with for a little bit. Or with farm to table, one of our aggregators of produce comes in. It's like, they only have a little bit of this or a little bit of that. So it's like gives us an opportunity to work with new things, give us an opportunity to play with new things.
- [85:20]
Eric
Things.
- [85:20]
John Russ
But it's also like, it's usually the freshest of the season and so it's the most abundant locally. And so the price is usually the lowest. Yeah. Just because of abundance.
- [85:31]
Eric
And so your new. You're being nimble allows you to take advantage of the low cost. Exactly, yeah. Anything else? And I mean, I'm curious about the post pandemic how things you got to. You had to evolve, you had to adapt, you had to get ready for delivery. But what about your systems, like your technology systems? Because I'm assuming you weren't. You'd have the. The option to do online ordering then.
- [85:56]
John Russ
Right. We had to get a second phone line.
- [85:58]
Eric
Okay. So everything that was. That you did was taken through phone call.
- [86:01]
John Russ
So we'd email everyone the. This is the menu for the day.
- [86:04]
Eric
So you're building a list. You have your loyal list. How are you building that list?
- [86:07]
John Russ
People would sign up on our website. People would be like, hey, you got to get on their email list so they can email you the menu for today and so you could respond back via email. But then like, we still had to have like a phone bank of people calling to confirm, calling to like, hey, do you want to take payment ahead? You know, like, what do you want to do? Do you want to add on some wine? Do you need to add on? You know, and we didn't do like the whole thing where we're selling like flour and toilet paper and crap like that, but we were selling us, you know, we would have, you know, cheese editions where we'd like call Murray's in New York and be like, hey, I want to get, you know, like all a bunch of cheese boxes. And like, we'd build these really cute cheese boxes for people so they could add on, Essentially raising their price point. Right. We had like our whole wine list. People could add on. You know, instead of like doing restaurant pricing, we did retail pricing with it. So it was like all of a sudden, like, we're burning cash flow and we've grown, you know, learning what people like, what people don't like, learning what people want to have. Which mostly only applied to Covid Life, but now we've got that information in the bank. So it's like, like hopefully good at some point or hopefully not, but it really allowed us to kind of see what we want to do.
- [87:12]
Eric
Got it. So in terms of technology, tech stack is what you did. You have to make any changes to your operation technology wise to get what about where you are today? Has your. Has your business evolved lately to. Is what you started with what you're currently using today?
- [87:31]
John Russ
In terms of tech stack, we started with Square. They have grown their tech stack to make it easier for restaurants to do what they need to do, which has been really helpful for us. And one of the reasons why we stay with Square is because we negotiated a credit card processing rate when we started that has been untouchable by anyone else in the field.
- [87:53]
Eric
Are you willing to say what it is or are you afraid to say?
- [87:55]
John Russ
I can't say.
- [87:56]
Eric
Under contract.
- [87:57]
John Russ
Yeah. Yes. But it's also, I, I mean like toast comes in Clover comes in and I'm like, if you can beat this rate, period, yeah, I'm in. Because that's a shitload of money. Yeah. But square, we're lucky.
- [88:12]
Eric
That was one of the things I was curious about. I saw Square when I walked in and I was like, I wonder what their rates are. Because I know Square does great for like coffee shops where you have low ticket averages, but when you start getting up to 100, you know, you get one involved 200, $300, like, and you have a, you know, 3%. Whatever, whatever. Like the, the standard is for Square right now. What is it?
- [88:32]
John Russ
You know, I don't even know what their standard is.
- [88:35]
Eric
That adds up real fast.
- [88:36]
John Russ
Yeah, it does.
- [88:37]
Eric
But they also evolved their platform to go from just like their traditional square pos to square for restaurants. Yes. Did you make that transition?
- [88:45]
John Russ
We made that transition. Okay. And we don't do the little handhelds at the table table that, that for us takes away from the guest interaction, regardless of the upselling potential and all the other crap.
- [88:54]
Eric
So what are the features you get now that you didn't get when they made that move towards Square for restaurants?
- [88:58]
John Russ
It's just all back end, easy things. You know, before you, you know, to like create a button, it was like five steps to get it onto the home screen is five steps now it's like, I can do it from my phone. I can change everything on my menu today from my phone and it will update to all my, you know, like I can be in New York. Yeah. And change everything on my phone. It'll update to the computers here. And it's really just. They make it easy, they make it smart. We also use. We started with OpenTable. We left OpenTable to go to Resi and we went back to OpenTable.
- [89:27]
Eric
What's going. Actually pause that back to Square because I have a few more questions. I definitely want to talk about that. What are the features that you are using today in terms of. I've heard rumor that Square might be purchasing rest restaurant at 365. Whether or not that's true, again, like, it's hearsay. Allegedly. I've heard this. I don't know if it's going to go through or not.
- [89:50]
John Russ
What? We don't use any of the inventory stuff because we're so small. You know, like, like we're buying wines and changing the menu.
- [89:56]
Eric
You're changing your menu every day?
- [89:57]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [89:58]
Eric
At a certain point it's like I see the value in that. There's a market that, that appeals when you're at scale. Yeah.
- [90:03]
John Russ
Or you never change.
- [90:04]
Eric
It's.
- [90:04]
John Russ
It's perfect.
- [90:05]
Eric
Right.
- [90:06]
John Russ
You know, and I'll rephrase that. We don't use inventory for ordering purposes. We use inventory for I've only got four bottles of this or I've only got 10 of these crazy steaks, you know, so like we're going to put an inventory level on those count on those things. But we're not using it for like the very traditional purposes or something like that.
- [90:24]
Eric
Yeah, yeah.
- [90:25]
John Russ
We use invoicing, I'd say relatively frequently because we do off site stuff. We do on site stuff. Invoicing makes everything easier.
- [90:34]
Eric
So accounts receivable.
- [90:35]
John Russ
Yes. And it's a lot easier. We also use triple seat. I don't know if you've ever heard of them. They're essentially a guest facing software that handles that first interaction. And we've kind of.
- [90:48]
Eric
Is that for catering though?
- [90:49]
John Russ
Yeah, we do a lot of those kind of things too. So we were able to kind of spread out and diversify without having to go to our second operation or do a different project. Okay.
- [91:00]
Eric
So in terms of like, like, I know one of the biggest competition to Square right now is Toast. And I know one of the things that really appealed for people who went with Toast is the fact that they had open API and they integrated with so many things. I'm. I'm hearing now that the trend is they're starting to not integrate with so many things. They're trying to keep it all in house. I mean, it's a lot of relationships to manage. Right?
- [91:24]
John Russ
Yeah, I mean it's. You always want to consolidate and become vertical. Right. That's what everybody in tech tells us is like I should own the silicone in the ground or silicon in the ground. I should own this. I showed that and I should own that so I could sell directly to the consumer and have the lowest possible cost. Right. But when you're dealing with such a fragmented industry, you know, like going everything in house, I don't know, like that's tough for me to, to chew on.
- [91:47]
Eric
Yeah. But it seems like, you know, if Square does, does acquire R365, then you're going to have those two juggernauts offering enterprise solutions with the exception. Oh no. Well, I don't think Square or Toast hasn't figured out the general ledger part of it yet. They use Extra Chef, but I don't think it's like a true general Ledger, like a QuickBooks, you know, where that's like a general ledger where you can do like invoice, like all that stuff. I'm, I'm still not really even the best at this stuff.
- [92:13]
John Russ
I'm trying to learn.
- [92:14]
Eric
I'll be in full transparency. Like, I am not, not like an accountant. I am not a tech person. Like, I try to wrap my mind around it. But if those, if, if Square did purchase R365, which is the leading tech enterprise solution on the market right now in terms of market share, and Square is able to evolve their extra chef to be more enterprise solution, they do have, you know, you know, payroll and all this other stuff. And I'm pretty sure I don't know if Square would be able to do that.
- [92:40]
John Russ
With Restaurant365.Square does payroll as well. Okay. Which is, you know, honestly, it's always like a fallback for us. We use ADP for that. Yeah, they're kind of a pain in the ass.
- [92:49]
Eric
But I saw the adb little logo on the top left hand corner of Square.
- [92:53]
John Russ
Yeah, it's, you know, for us it's like a frustrating thing. But pay. I don't know. Payroll sucks.
- [93:00]
Eric
Yeah.
- [93:00]
John Russ
Like, that's the worst part about being a business owner is payroll.
- [93:02]
Eric
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm starting to experience that now as I'm growing my team. I'm like, huh, the pressure's on. You know, when it was just me, I could up, I wouldn't care. But when other people depend on it, it's like, oh, pressure's on.
- [93:15]
John Russ
When they auto enroll someone into a 401k that they already opted out of and like they have to come to you for like, hey, I need reimbursement and then I need out of this program. And it's like, you know that's gonna be four hours on the phone.
- [93:26]
Eric
Oh my gosh.
- [93:27]
John Russ
You're like, wait, what?
- [93:29]
Eric
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [93:30]
John Russ
It just, it's part of life.
- [93:32]
Eric
So any features from Square from when they went to, to standard square, one size fits all to square for restaurants that you just really like love, that's worth talking about or you're not leveraging it?
- [93:42]
John Russ
No, I think we just continue to evolve and don't notice the little changes that add up to the big changes. You know, like from that huge evolution. It takes our service less time to ring in orders. It takes less time to, to do the, the confusing chits where it's like, you know, C3 is gluten free, celiac, vegan, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, like all the things. And it's takes less time for our servers. So like more time with the guest Less time on the computer is always going to be our solution.
- [94:09]
Eric
Yeah. So you, you mentioned that you started with OpenTable, you went to Resy and you went back to OpenTable. Let's go to. Why did you originally leave OpenTable for
- [94:20]
John Russ
resi spending like 2 grand a month.
- [94:21]
Eric
When was that?
- [94:23]
John Russ
Before the pandemic.
- [94:25]
Eric
Okay, so you went to resi from OpenTable just because of the cost associated.
- [94:30]
John Russ
Absolute cost. And then you were with Resident Scary too, because, like, we were one of like three restaurants in San Antonio that were on Resi. Yeah. We're like, how are our guests going to be able to find us?
- [94:38]
Eric
Right. That's.
- [94:39]
John Russ
It was the dumbest, dumbest fear we ever had.
- [94:41]
Eric
I know. Oh. I mean, part of what I want to create awareness to with this podcast is that these third party entities have. Are getting to the point where they control consumer habits. It. And it's getting to the point where consumers are more loyal to third party entities for their information than they are to the actual communities they live in. Word of mouth.
- [95:03]
John Russ
And like, yeah, they identify as an Open Table user or a Resi user.
- [95:06]
Eric
Right. They just want to be able to tap the screen twice to figure out where I'm eating tonight.
- [95:11]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [95:11]
Eric
And that those habits associated with our phones are so powerful, I don't think we even begin to understand what we're giving up when we give these third parties raised that control of these behaviors. And that's the kind of stuff people are like. Well, it's so convenient. I'm like, do you know long term what you're signing up for?
- [95:27]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [95:27]
Eric
You know, because like when, when the product is free.
- [95:30]
Right.
- [95:30]
John Russ
You are the. Yes.
- [95:32]
Eric
Right. So you, you moved to Resi because the costs were getting out of control. And you were with Resi until how
- [95:38]
John Russ
long we were with Resi, I think until like 18 months ago.
- [95:42]
Eric
Okay.
- [95:43]
John Russ
And only because, like, yeah, Resi was like, we had signed on to like the super cheap thing and we were part of their like platinum when they were building express thing. And but then like, they stopped responding and our needs grew and they stopped responding. And so like every time we have a need, like, I need to build an experience, I need to build a dinner, I need to do this, I need to change that. And it's like you'd have hours on the phone trying to find someone that can help you do this thing. And finally, like, I ran into, I was at some beard thing up in Chicago and I ran into the executive, the CEO, and she's like, why aren't, why aren't you with us. And I was like. And I sort of told her. She's like, well, here's someone, you know, like, give him a call and just see you.
- [96:22]
Eric
Talk about open table CEO.
- [96:24]
John Russ
Yeah, okay. And I was, you know, I was like, okay. So we get back, and then we have this really frustrating day with Resy. It never goes down, which was great, but it was just, like, doing little things that shouldn't be so difficult. And so we called OpenTable and they were like, actually, we'd like for you to join this program and that program, and this is what your monthly cost is going to be, and blah, blah, blah.
- [96:46]
Eric
Are these new programs that didn't exist when you were with them?
- [96:48]
John Russ
Yes. They realized that me spending two grand a month to give them all of my information and all of my guest information didn't work for small businesses. And so they changed to, like, this different model of, you know, like, essentially the resi model, like, 3, 4, 500amonth, depending on what program you want. And so I was like, well, if we're going to be spending the same amount of money that we were with Resy, let's give it a shot.
- [97:13]
Eric
Can you get more into the programs and what they look like and how that is structured?
- [97:16]
John Russ
So we do this thing. It's called experiences. And if you go on your Open Table app, you can find experiences near you. Restaurants either have them or don't they offer them or don't. We find that it's a way to diversify kind of our offerings. Sometimes it's like our pastry dinner that we're doing with Ann and Jeremy.
- [97:32]
Eric
So now people are shopping for experiences, not food. Like, yes, like reservations so much, but they're, like, looking to, like, Exactly. Okay.
- [97:40]
John Russ
Or if we want to, like, block off a couple of tables for the experience, we have to then create the experience so we can block the tables off. And so it's like, it helps us to diversify revenue streams, right? Yeah, because they might be looking for an experience instead of looking to go have dinner. And so, like, those are two different streams. Right. One of the other things that we use with them a lot is kind of like building out larger experiences, like our Mardi Gras event or Valentine's Day, where you have to essentially sign a waiver saying you understand what that night's gonna look like. I know it sounds crazy to say it that way, but essentially, if you show up on Valentine's Day and assume that you're gonna get a $50 meal, it's because you have not read any of the Texts or emails that OpenTable has sent you on our behalf, you know, or Mardi Gras day. I'm only serving Mardi Gras food on Mardi Gras day. So don't show up hoping to get like X, Y or Z. Right. It's kind of like the way it's built on our side. I'm going to cook you X, Y or Z. Because that's what hospitality is. But it alerts people of like, we're doing Mardi Gras. This is the menu. Check it out ahead of time. If you make a reservation, know ahead what you're paying and it just, it helps create that awareness.
- [98:54]
Eric
Right. And so it sounds like OpenTable just basically changed their business model.
- [98:59]
John Russ
Oh, yeah.
- [98:59]
Eric
And they went to basically meeting restaurants where they're at.
- [99:05]
John Russ
Yes.
- [99:05]
Eric
And not charging. Do they. They no longer withhold data, emails and all that stuff.
- [99:11]
John Russ
No. You can get any information you want. It's sometimes harder to find the information and it's really just like knowing where to look look. But then like you can find everything.
- [99:20]
Eric
Yeah.
- [99:20]
John Russ
Like, I know what our average customer, you know, like on table 22 last night, the last four times he's been in, I know exactly how much he's going to spend.
- [99:27]
Eric
Yeah.
- [99:27]
It's also CRM too.
- [99:28]
John Russ
Yes.
- [99:28]
Eric
At that point.
- [99:29]
John Russ
And they also help to manage our. What is it called, our reputation or whatever because they're like, hey, you know, you can set up your auto responses for your four and five star reviews. You can, you know, like we'll choose, you know, like based on like set of prompts, you know, like what it goes out. But, but if anything under three stars we're going to send to you, you know, which really helps because reviews are important. People look at them for some reason or another. Yeah.
- [99:54]
Eric
I did hear that OpenTable is their customer support. Just they, they realized that Resi was moving in a direction. They're like, we were going to double down on customer support. And you know, it's. It's just an interesting time right now in the role of technology. It's also worth pointing out that Resy was purchased by America Express, which is
- [100:11]
John Russ
kind of scary if you're not paying for an app.
- [100:14]
Eric
Yeah.
- [100:14]
John Russ
You are the exact. You're on the menu. Yeah. You know, and that's what it is. Like Resi doesn't care, you know, what you order. American Express does.
- [100:21]
Eric
Right.
- [100:22]
John Russ
You know, like they want that data.
- [100:24]
Eric
Right.
- [100:24]
John Russ
And you know, like, somehow why it's not completely free for restaurants is beyond me. Yeah. Maybe have to like make a show of it or whatever. But like, that is so much data that they're getting. I mean, but also like, you should also look at the relationship between visa and OpenTable because they recognize that like all these platinum card holders are like flocking to Resy and making all the Resi experiences blow up. Right, okay.
- [100:48]
Eric
They want those points.
- [100:49]
John Russ
Yeah. But they also want to know where the cool things are. You know, like, how do I make a reservation from my AmEx app for a restaurant when I go to New York and not have to call a frickin someone? Or like try and get on OpenTable or whatever those apps are that like, like we'll sell you a reservation.
- [101:06]
Eric
Yeah.
- [101:06]
John Russ
You know that that should be outlawed. Oh yeah, yeah. 100.
- [101:10]
Eric
But then Resi purchased Talk not that long ago and I was rooting for Talk. I was a fanboy of Talk. I loved how they Nick Coconuts always say his name incorrectly. Do you know how to say his name?
- [101:21]
John Russ
No.
- [101:22]
Eric
Yeah. Anyway, sorry, Nick, if you're listening to
- [101:23]
John Russ
this, I got it.
- [101:25]
Eric
But he basically said like, the way that we do this is stupid.
- [101:29]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [101:29]
Eric
A seat at a restaurant on a Friday night at 7 o' clock is more valuable than on Tuesday at 5 o'.
- [101:35]
John Russ
Clock.
- [101:35]
Eric
Why aren't we accounting for that? Like, there's inherent value and we should charge for or get paid for that.
- [101:43]
John Russ
Right.
- [101:44]
Eric
Demand.
- [101:44]
You know, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Some people would push back and say it's, it's not hospitable. But you're also maybe lowering the cost on slow nights to get people in that normally wouldn't be able to eat with you.
- [101:55]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [101:56]
Eric
So it does kind of like create like this, like democratic, like, okay, well, you know, maybe, like if, maybe that's not democratic, but it might get you in reach for some people that wouldn't otherwise be able to afford.
- [102:06]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [102:06]
Eric
So I thought that was cool. But then Talk sold to. To Resi and now I'm like, now there's two options.
- [102:13]
John Russ
Yeah, pretty much.
- [102:14]
Eric
Maybe three if you start looking at what Toast is doing with their reservation. They're trying to build that up, but they don't have the marketplace yet that resident OpenTable have. So.
- [102:24]
And, and I imagine three options for the entire industry.
- [102:27]
John Russ
And, and come on, let's be honest. Like, I'm sure Toast is building their system so that someone else buys it.
- [102:31]
Eric
Right.
- [102:32]
John Russ
You know, and it's like, well, don't they usually buy?
- [102:34]
Eric
Don't they do the buying? Are they selling technology?
- [102:37]
John Russ
I mean, you hope. Right? But like there's two out there. And it's, it's, it's Visa, MasterCard. Right. Which is Open Table, which has 87% of the reservations that are in America. Like, let's put it in frames like that. So that reserve is Amex. You know, it's, it's, it's 11%. And then you've got these other tiny ones out there in the market, and people who still do it by hand is included in that last little bit of percentage of, like, there's not much out there. Yeah. And so I'm sure that OpenTable is going to try and buy something from someone just to consolidate their market. Yeah. You get some technology. Yes. You get some ideas about how to grow or who customers are, but I don't know. Consolidation of marketplaces is not necessarily the best for consumers. And honestly, yes, the restaurants are the consumers of Open Table, but we pass that down to our guests. And so really, as a guest, you are the person who is paying for it.
- [103:36]
Eric
Well, the restaurant's paying for it, and the guest is the beneficiary of the ease of use and convenience. But they're also the product because they are being manipulated and marketed to in ways that are happening at a certain subconscious level and they're not even aware of it. That's terrifying. Yeah. And I wasn't aware that Visa and MasterCard, so they partner with OpenTable, but they're not, they don't own.
- [104:01]
John Russ
I don't think they own it, but.
- [104:03]
Eric
So Booking holdings, or the subsidiary of Booking holdings owns OpenTable. I had to look that up.
- [104:10]
John Russ
But there was a Chase Sapphire and Chase Sapphire Reserve have programs with Open Table. And so they partner in the way that, that American Express essentially partners with Resi.
- [104:20]
Eric
Right.
- [104:20]
John Russ
Without the ownership factor.
- [104:22]
Eric
To me, it scares me more that credit card processing is essentially. Credit card processing companies own two of the three reservation platforms, and they are the devil. Credit card processing, like that is the most, like, outrageous. Like that business model, like, needs to be regulated. Like, it's crazy.
- [104:39]
John Russ
You know, the National Restaurant association has been fighting this fight for years. You know, somehow, just a quick diversion. Somehow Europe has figured out how to regulate credit card processing costs, but American, we have not figured out what's going on there. Well, there is the space where your debit card processing is capped. That, that is like, that is a thing. But credit card processing is a different rate. And it's not necessarily capped. It's not, you know, it can go up to. And I've heard people paying like, up to like 7 and 10%. On credit card processing. Processing rates. And in my head I'm like, you gotta be kidding, right?
- [105:22]
Eric
These restaurants are getting that get auto debited from your, you know, income. You know, like, that stuff's scary. Yeah, yeah, I'm loving the conversation, man. Also, the kitchen folks are here. Yeah, kitchen folks. Do not worry about doing your thing if you have to make noise. This is a restaurant business podcast. Noise happens. Don't. If not to suggest you were stressed out, but if you were, don't worry about it.
- [105:44]
John Russ
That's Mallory and Uriel is floating around somewhere now too. Cool.
- [105:48]
Eric
Yeah, I'm loving the conversation, man. And if you're listening to this and you know more about this subject, I'm looking to educate myself. I don't know who the right people to talk to who are advocating for the industry. We absolutely need to do better about like educating ourselves and realizing when we invest in these technologies, what are we also investing in? Yeah, what future are we investing?
- [106:11]
John Russ
Exactly. So specifically, it's called the Credit Card Competition Act. It's a piece of legislation that is parentally and perpetually on the books. You know, every time we, we open a new session of Congress, someone puts up the Credit Card Competition act. And it's essentially creates a space for competition within the, the credit card companies, which is what we don't have right now. And Cruz got onto the bandwagon last summer. And then I've heard some conversations where Trump is on like this conversation of like, we need to regulate credit card processing rates. Not including the, the credit card, the APRs or whatever it is, you know, your, your side of it as a consumer, but just like the processing rates he's talked about, which gives us all hope that, you know, we can start like to. To do this because, you know, a lot of restaurants and a lot of people talk about credit card processing as one of their highest costs of running a restaurant.
- [107:08]
Eric
What is it like on average, like 2% per transaction goes to the credit card processor.
- [107:13]
John Russ
Yeah. Which is MasterCard, Visa or American Express or Discover. And, and Right. It's. It's a lot of money. Yeah.
- [107:25]
Eric
Once I want to bring this to the conversation because I think it's important. One of my current sponsors for. Sponsor for a long time Restaurant Systems Pro, also in the race to be an enterprise solution built and engineered by restaurant owners. Fred Langley, the CEO, former restaurant owner. And it's hard for these.
- [107:47]
John Russ
You, You.
- [107:48]
Eric
It's crazy to think that the, the second or third option would be struggling to. To like compete with the, the first and second option in like a national marketplace.
- [107:59]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [107:59]
Eric
But I think it's really important that we intentionally invest in other technologies. And what Fred is doing, he. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this, but he's. He's struggling to get his POS going because that. He is like heels in the. In the ground, dead set on not like, raking people over the. The coals with credit card processing rates. And he's going to war to get a locked low, lowest in the industry credit card processing rate because he's. He's purchased. He purchased a POS serve and they're evolving it to integrate with their restaurant tech stack, Restaurant Systems Pro, which is costing, inventory, purchasing, labor, management, you know, all the. The things you need to really control your prime costs. General ledger. They're developing that too. And most people have never heard of Restaurant Systems Pro.
- [108:49]
John Russ
Right.
- [108:50]
Eric
You know what I'm saying? And it's a great organization, a small organization that is literally like scratching tooth and nail to go to work for the restaurant industry. And they are off the radar because they don't have the marketing budget to influence in podcasters like me, which is why I work with this company, because we need to create other awareness. So if you're out there and you want to be a part of the solution, give your money to small business every time. And it's so exciting because we're at this precipice right now where with the, you know, vibe coding, like, the ability for independent, like, small, like developers, like, the cost in developing the software is coming down. So I'm hoping that. But we have to intentionally fragment these big companies and choose to work with smaller companies to make the market more competitive.
- [109:34]
John Russ
Exactly. You know, for a lot of it, it's like, you know, when we look at. When someone's like, oh, we have a vertical integration. You don't have to do this, this, or this. My answer is like, I'm gonna find something about this annoying. And that means I have to cancel the whole program to get out of it. Yeah. And so, like, I'm one of those, like, I can't. I can't kind of wrap my head around that. And so, you know, that's why, you know, payroll is done by adp. That's why, you know, POS is, you know, it's like we have to look at things in a way that makes sense for our business. And other businesses, you know, obviously do what they have to do for themselves or hopefully are doing what they have to do for themselves instead of just taking the easiest way out you have to do the thing that's best. And best and easy are two totally different things.
- [110:17]
Eric
Yeah, man. I'm looking at the time. I'm totally lost in conversation. We've been recording now for about an hour and 45 minutes, and I want to make sure we haven't even talked to most about the most recent, like, four or five years of your operation, or I guess, like three or four
- [110:31]
John Russ
years of your operation.
- [110:32]
Eric
So take me to where you are today. Is there anything that's happening today in terms of struggle, in terms of evolution and growth that you want to share with our listeners before?
- [110:42]
John Russ
One of the the things that on our side, because we focus on creativity, we focus on fresh foods, focus on fun things to us to eat as chefs, we never put something on our menu that we ourselves are not excited about. And sometimes, like, we individually don't like A or B. But as a culture, chefs, I think, have been waiting for people to get out of COVID mine and back into interesting and exciting food world. And I think that we're starting to turn that corner in San Antonio where we can do, you know, weird and wild things, like a whole fish with a head on it or shrimp with, you know, because, like, for a while, you know, people, you know, when they're eating from the grocery store or other restaurants that are to go, they don't see a head on a fish or a head on a shrimp, or they don't, you know, have chicken liver parfait or foie gras or sweet breads or, you know, whatever it is. And so I think we're fighting to get back into that world, and we've been fighting that fight consistently. But I think that we're starting to see that to come back into focus, which is, you know, it's taken, what, six years to get there. But so it's certainly a struggle. The other big struggles that we have are just watching the whole immigration thing. We're in South Texas. I grew up in a minority white city, New Orleans, and I live in a minority white city in San Antonio.
- [111:56]
Eric
I get it.
- [111:57]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [111:57]
Eric
Where it's like.
- [111:58]
John Russ
But it's like, even for our employees who are legal, grew up here their entire lives, just because their skin's brown, they have added stress. You see them come in to work with it. You know, it's like, you know, they are in a position where, like, they're at, you know, a gas station. There's, you know, law enforcement there, and looking at them like it's like they're illegal or they're they're, they're wrong or something's about to happen. And like, you hear them come in and they have that stress with them and it's, that's tough to deal with because then, like, that stress carries into their rest of their workday. You know, it's like, what is it going to look like when I drive home tonight? Am I going to be safe to drive home tonight?
- [112:31]
Eric
I can't even begin to know how to sympathize with that. Right. You know, with the privilege that you and I have, you know, so it's hard to put yourself in that position, but we have to consider that.
- [112:41]
John Russ
But I have to be there because that's where my staff is, right. You know, and, and, you know, like, you know, I certainly, like, look at their cars now, you know, like, hey, you got a tail light out. Go fix that right now.
- [112:51]
Eric
Right?
- [112:51]
John Russ
Like, yeah, do it on the clock. I don't care. Like, go get that figured out. So you don't have to have the stress of getting pulled over, right? So you don't have to have the stress of, of dealing with some nonsense. You know, that's certainly one of the biggest things that's impacting our staffs. And nobody likes to talk about that because it's like, you don't want to have this political conversation. And like, I'm not, I'm not looking to have a political conversation. I'm just saying, you know, struggles wise, you know, our, our staff has stress.
- [113:17]
Eric
It's an, it's an awkward situation to put the restaurant industry in because we're
- [113:21]
John Russ
supposed to be hospitable, right?
- [113:23]
Eric
We're supposed to be hospitable. And also a majority of, of the people we employ, or either first generation, second generation, you know, they're, they're immigrants. Like, this country was built on immigration. And when our, our entire existence, our entire ability to do our job
- [113:43]
depends
- [113:44]
on these people coming into our country looking for opportunity, we're biased to protecting those people.
- [113:49]
John Russ
Right?
- [113:49]
Eric
We have to protect those people. And we don't want to make noise and say, hey, this is like, I'm worried that if you guys come into my, my town, I'm going to lose my kitchen staff. But you also don't want to admit that you might have a legal kitchen staff. So, like, you can't really be too loud about it because you don't want to cause attention to yourself. It's weird, man.
- [114:06]
John Russ
It's a, it's a tough space to be in. And I can feel, you know, I feel the pain of other restaurant tours, you know, even around the country. I have friends in the Berkshires who are having trouble with this. I have friends who are in California who have trouble with this. And it's like, this isn't like a, you know, just. It's Minnesota or it's, you know, just X, Y or Z. This is all over the country where we are supposed to protect our staffs as small business owners are supposed to do the right thing. And, and I think all of us have had those conversations with our staffs of, like, what can I do for you to make your life a little bit easier today? You know, or whatever it is. And I think that as long as we continue to focus on those things, as we continue to be empathetic to our staff, have reform, like the, the
- [114:46]
Eric
process, do better about how do we get people into this country and how do we make it easier, not harder, right? And I mean, it's. It's a really tough conversations because at the same time, you can't have people illegally coming into the country and cutting the line of the people that are trying to do it the right way. Of course, you know, doing like, do. It's not easy to become a citizen of this country. It's not even time, money associated with it.
- [115:07]
John Russ
It's not even easy to. To be someone who has protections, you know, that. That you want to go back to your country. You don't want to be here forever, right? But shit's not right there, and shit's really bad. And, you know, like, can I come here for a little while and. Because, you know, politically I'm. If I go back, I'm gonna get killed or my wife is gonna get killed. You know, one of our employees, long term former employees, you know, came through with immigration protections and he had worked for what's the international International Police Agency. Interpol. He'd worked for Interpol and he had gotten a cattle smuggling ring, you know, busted. And like, the next day, like, his house is shot up, his wife is threatened, his kids are threatened. So he's like, fuck this, I'm out of here. You know, like, if I'm trying to do the right thing. And he also came through and did all the right things with his family here. And they're incredible people. You know, they're adding to our community. They're going to our churches. They are working at, you know, know, proper legal jobs, right? They're adding to the tax base all the things that you want people to do, but then, like, do they need to carry that Stress of, like, if I get pulled over, maybe I'm going to be pulled over for two hours or disappeared for a month, you know, until somebody can figure out what's going on.
- [116:16]
Eric
Right.
- [116:16]
John Russ
Like, that's not helpful.
- [116:18]
Eric
No, no. We can definitely do better about it. There's no arguing that. And it's just tough because to your point, a lot of good people are in those systems that get pulled into this asylum or whatever. There's a lot of good people there, but there's also people, bad people, that take advantage of that and they. They use as a Trojan horse. They get in and like, while you want to protect these good people, you can't do nothing out of fear of the bad p or the good people not being taken care of. Because you can't do nothing. Right.
- [116:48]
John Russ
Yeah. You can't build your systems on, like, the unicorns or the problems. You have to build your system based on success.
- [116:53]
Eric
The answer is not do nothing. Right. And I think that's what a lot of people are saying is we need to stop doing something. And it's like, no, we need to do something.
- [117:01]
John Russ
Let's do the right thing better. Yeah.
- [117:03]
Eric
And. And I. I worry. You see the media and you see one side of it, and it. To me, the media is not helping at all because they're almost adding fuel to the fire because they have their bottom paranoid.
- [117:14]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [117:14]
Eric
You know, and it's like in every situation where you see a civil situation, in a civil encounter where ice approaches somebody who's supposed to be here. Here are my. Here are my papers. Here's who I am. I'm legal. Like, I'm documented. Okay. Thank you. I don't know if that happens. I'm assuming it does. But you never see that on camera. Right, right.
- [117:31]
That happens, too.
- [117:32]
But then you also see the horrible side of it more often. So you create this fear.
- [117:37]
John Russ
Yes.
- [117:37]
Eric
You know, and that's a part of the strategy, too.
- [117:40]
On the flip side, then, there are
- [117:42]
people that are, you know, going and stoking the fire on the right that want to make it look. Look bad. So there's all kinds of going on in this, and we need to be aware of that. We can't be so easily manipulated, you know?
- [117:54]
John Russ
Yeah. And, you know, we were having a conversation earlier, before this, this moment, you know, where in Texas restaurants, independent restaurants, have more employees than oil have more employees in the government that has more employees in healthcare. You know, if we all banded together and said, hey, we all need this to be done, and we actually all stood up and said, Your tax base as a city, as a state is at risk if we don't sit together and figure this out. But you have too many restaurant owners that are in the shit, you know, do you have too many restaurant owners that are, you know, so in the weeds that it's hard for them to raise their hand and say, hey, Mr. Congressman or hey, Mr. Senator, I need you to work on this.
- [118:32]
Eric
Yeah, we don't have the bandwidth. We're trying to survive. We can't be proactive.
- [118:36]
John Russ
And you know, like, the things are always kind of like talked about, but like, like we haven't had comprehensive immigration reform in two plus decades.
- [118:44]
Eric
Yeah. You know, it's changed so much.
- [118:46]
John Russ
Yeah, exactly. And so, like, how do we get to a better space with this? How do we get to more inclusive communities? How do we get to stronger tax bases? How do we get to having compassionate care for our elderly and for the people?
- [118:59]
Eric
Infirm people are living longer than ever too, which is a whole new issue.
- [119:03]
John Russ
And proper, full blooded Americans, you know, aren't having kids at the same rate.
- [119:07]
Eric
Great.
- [119:07]
John Russ
And so, like, just doing the math, there's gonna be a problem at some point.
- [119:12]
Eric
Right.
- [119:12]
John Russ
You know, so.
- [119:13]
Eric
So what are you doing and what can we do to follow in your footsteps
- [119:20]
John Russ
as a restaurant or just as an individual?
- [119:23]
Eric
As somebody who's trying to get involved.
- [119:25]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [119:25]
Eric
Who's trying to make change. Like, what is your view and how can we get behind your app?
- [119:29]
John Russ
I think a lot of, you know, for, for us as business owners, you know, our thoughts about immigration, our thoughts about tax bases, our thoughts about community, it all kind of coalesces into that space of like Clementine, you know, is a restaurant where we care about our guests internal and external. You know, that's something that, you know, was like that Horse Schultze line from like the 80s where he put it on his Ritz Carlton standards. It's like we care about our guests and our internal guests are our staff. It's the people who are purveyors. It's the people who, you know, like, come and pick up the grease trap that come and do all these things. And our external guests are the people who come to visit us. And if we don't have the genuine care and believe in their comfort, then we're not being hospitable. And so for us as restaurant owners, you know, we see it as like a. It's a full on approach. Right. We have to be active in our community. We actually have to care about our community. We can't just like come in here Pay our line cooks, you know, 10 bucks an hour, and take our server's tips and do all these things and expect this restaurant to work. We have to be a full, total solution. And one of the hardest things is actually standing behind that day after day, writing those checks, making sure that when you have an opportunity to speak to your congressman or your state senators or whoever it is, you take that opportunity to say, hey, I'd like to talk to you about this, instead of just, oh, my God, it's so nice to meet you. Because really, is it nice to meet a senator or congressman? Unless you're really political. Like, no, of course not. They're just another guy or girl.
- [120:57]
Eric
Yeah.
- [120:57]
John Russ
But use your time with that person to say, hey, these things are important to me. I would like to talk to you further about this. Can I have your chief of staff's phone number or whatever it is and, like, follow up?
- [121:08]
Eric
Yeah.
- [121:08]
John Russ
And be a pain in the ass. If you believe in it.
- [121:10]
Eric
Yeah.
- [121:10]
John Russ
If you want to have higher rates of whatever Cool. If you want to have lower rates of whatever cool. Whatever it is, you have to advocate for that.
- [121:18]
Eric
Right.
- [121:18]
John Russ
You have to be an advocate for change in your own environment. Environment. Yeah.
- [121:21]
Eric
And I think it's important that independent operators band together, because together we outnumber the.
- [121:27]
John Russ
You know, nationally, we have more employees than any other industry, period.
- [121:32]
Eric
The restaurant and food industry has been changing the world. Like, the revolution, you know, started in bars.
- [121:40]
Yeah.
- [121:40]
You know, like, probably not helpful. Probably helpful.
- [121:45]
John Russ
It was cleaner water, but.
- [121:46]
Eric
It was cleaner water. But at the same time, is something to be said about alcohol, like, getting, like, the fruit, like, the. The creative juices flowing, you know, like in, like, this frontal lobe that, like, governs our emotions and our thoughts. Like, it shuts off a little bit.
- [122:01]
John Russ
It opens the filter up.
- [122:02]
Eric
Ideas flow, you know.
- [122:04]
John Russ
Exactly.
- [122:04]
Eric
And there's a balance, I think. I don't think alcohol is evil. There's a. Like, everything there's using and abusing moderation. Moderation. But like. Like, like, literally, like, revolution. Revolution started in bars. And the people that owned those bars were also the mayors of those towns.
- [122:17]
John Russ
Right.
- [122:18]
Eric
And they were the. The people that made a difference. And we need to get. We need to stop looking at the restaurant industry as marketplaces and start looking at it as communities. Right.
- [122:26]
John Russ
100 of the time.
- [122:27]
Eric
And it's this industry that will change the world.
- [122:30]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [122:30]
Eric
It has always and will always. Our relationship with food in hospitality is the most human thing there is. I've been swearing a lot in this episode.
- [122:39]
John Russ
Okay. We're in Texas, it's all right.
- [122:41]
Eric
You got me going, so it's so exciting. It's be a part of that.
- [122:44]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [122:45]
Eric
You know, we have influence. There is strength in numbers.
- [122:48]
John Russ
We. I was having a conversation with one of my cooks. He's not here right now, but last night we were talking, you know, like, what do you see the industry doing in 10 years? You know? And I'm like, well, we're going to have restaurants. People need to eat. They're never going to not need to eat. And people are never going to not want to have human interaction. Yeah, a robot might check you in, you might be able to order from your table. Some things are going to change. But the human touch with food is what makes it good. Yeah, the human interaction with food is what makes it good. You know those experiences. Like, you know, there's 10,000 square foot restaurants where like you could have your best friends in that restaurant and not know it. Like, that's not communal, you know, like small restaurants where you can see your friend across the room be like, holy shit, my friends are here. Like, that's community. That's walking into your neighborhood pound that's walking into, you know, like, like in tribal times, in the ancient times. Like walk into the fire and be like, oh, wow, okay, cool, Everybody's here.
- [123:40]
Eric
Yeah.
- [123:41]
John Russ
You know where it's like you feel your heartbeats together.
- [123:44]
Eric
Yeah. You're a fan of the book Sapien by Harari Noah. I think I said his name correctly. I'm always butchering it. I'm trying to, I'm trying to learn. But he talks about the, the four revolutions or the, like the, the. It was like the cognitive revolution Revolution, the agricultural revolution, the Industrial revolution. Food was at the center of all those revolutions and it will be at the center of all future revolutions.
- [124:09]
John Russ
We are where we are because we figured out that cooked protein is easier to digest.
- [124:16]
Eric
More meat, bigger brains. Cognitive revolution. They also attribute the scientific process to hunting in fishing and foraging. It was theory. Okay, let's try something that didn't work. And that's how the scientific process evolved. Agriculture is the same. The bed of humanity of, of being able to live in the cultures and have cultures grow and scale. The Industrial revolution might have been good when it started and we might have destroyed the food system as a result of it. Like, but, but we knew, we knew
- [124:46]
John Russ
that then, you know, but there are the books that were written in those times that, you know, like depending on where you went to school, like you knew that the meat system was right
- [124:54]
Eric
then, but it was the Industrial revolution that a lot of let us scale food and feed millions of people. And maybe we went too far in that direction and we had to dial it back a little bit because industry got involved and became a different thing. But again, changed the world.
- [125:08]
John Russ
Yes.
- [125:08]
Eric
And if you don't, again, food was at the center of all that. Like, we forget how much we're influenced by food. It's so hard, wonderful.
- [125:16]
John Russ
It's.
- [125:16]
Eric
It's cool stuff. Anything we haven't discussed up to this point,
- [125:21]
John Russ
I feel like we had a pretty ranging conversation. But I will say this, like, at the end of it all, what we do in this world as restaurateurs, as cooks, as chefs, as dishwashers, it's. You have to do it with intention. You have to be careful about what you do. You have to be thoughtful about what you had want to do, but. But you have to do it. You know, it's like one of the things that, like, we always say. It's like, well, I'm trying to do this, I'm trying to do that. Sometimes you just got to, like, pull that stupid Yoda quote. Like, there is no try. There's only do.
- [125:51]
Eric
Ain't nothing to it, but do it
- [125:52]
John Russ
is what I like to say. Exactly. You know, you get in where you fit in, and it's. That is a space of, like, getting things done. And to do this work, to do this life, you have to, like, jump in and go. Because if you don't, then you're just on the sidelines lines.
- [126:07]
Eric
Do you have a one o' clock that I'm getting in the way of right now?
- [126:10]
John Russ
I had a 12 o'. Clock.
- [126:11]
Eric
Oh, sorry, 12 o'.
- [126:12]
John Russ
Clock. Oh, no, no, we're good. Yeah, we're good.
- [126:14]
Eric
Oh, wow.
- [126:14]
John Russ
I think my wife is doing it, so that's great. Yeah.
- [126:16]
Eric
I'm so sorry.
- [126:16]
John Russ
No.
- [126:17]
Eric
God, I'm so abusive over your time. Well, let's wrap it up, man.
- [126:20]
John Russ
Man, life is good.
- [126:21]
Eric
Yeah, man. Three questions, and we're gonna say goodbye. First question is, what is one thing about your business? A value, process, or system that is truly. That truly makes you unstoppable?
- [126:31]
John Russ
Our credo, our mission statement, and our stances of service.
- [126:35]
Eric
And what is that?
- [126:36]
John Russ
Oh, my God. Do you want me to read them to you? Essentially, our basis of life. It's. It's the ten steps of service. You know, it's the classic Ritz Carlton space. I don't have them memorized because I'm in my caffeine space right now, but it's just very classic of this is who we are. This is what we do. This is. Every time we have a shitty situation or every time we're doing really, really good, we look back and say, is this correct? Based on our soul?
- [127:00]
Eric
Yep. Yep.
- [127:01]
The mission statement is to change the world through inspiring power and transforming the restaurant industry. How have you personally transformed as an individual?
- [127:07]
John Russ
We believe that having small businesses that are thriving is important to communities, and we hope to inspire those things. And we try to show the world every day that a mom and pop can still do it. In 2026, with three kids, 1500 square feet. We're open literally 20 hours a week.
- [127:28]
Eric
Yep. If you got the news, you'd be leaving this world tomorrow. All the memories of you, you work in your restaurants would be lost with your departure. With the exception of three pieces of wisdom you could leave behind for the good of humanity and your legacy. What would those three pieces of wisdom be?
- [127:41]
John Russ
I had to write these down because I thought this was important. Stop trying to do things, just do them. Family is more important than your guests every day.
- [127:51]
Eric
2.
- [127:52]
John Russ
Don't sweat the 3.
- [127:54]
Eric
This has been a lot of fun, John. Thank you so much, man. I'd like to. This last question is how I try to keep this thing honest. Who is doing it right? Who's out there making an impact, creating opportunity for others, scaling business all while figuring out how to make money while doing it too, which is the hard part. Who is that?
- [128:14]
John Russ
Okay, so. And this is certainly going to be a controversial in San Antonio approach, there's a guy named Chad Carey. He owns a few restaurants, he owns a few different operations. He is quite possibly one of the most authentic restaurant owners I've ever met. And the authenticity comes from the space of. We're around the same age. And one day he asked me, he's like, what are you going to do when it's time to be done? How do you sell something that's not yours? And what do you mean? Well, you don't own the real estate. He's right. He's like, how do we exit this without, like, some bullshit $40,000 payout? You've built something worth millions of dollars. How do we sell that to the next person who's ready to buy it? And maybe there's an answer, maybe there's not. But, like, to me, that's an authentic way of saying this industry is something that we can pass down, that we can share, that we can allow someone else to grow, go without burning it down at the end.
- [129:14]
Eric
Well, I think the cool thing about the independent Side of this is restaurants are more just than a place to eat. Their identity, their culture, their, their, their. The. The blood, sweat and tears of that community is in that restaurant. And there's pride associated with that restaurant. That is your community watering hole. There's a. Actually out of Austin, Texas, Corey Sanchez. Do you know that name?
- [129:36]
John Russ
Corey Sanchez?
- [129:37]
Eric
Her book Main Street Millionaire of how to build a something, but also to. How to. How to take over Main street. How to go into existing businesses and develop a situation where you take over that business and a percentage of that profit goes to the previous owner to be a part of their retirement plan so they can sell it and. And pay it forward to the next generation. I love that model. I kind of want to have on the show. But, like, she's kind of a busy lady. I don't know if she's too. But I. And she also says in her book Main Street Millionaire, never buy a restaurant.
- [130:10]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [130:10]
Eric
She refuses to touch that industry in her. In her empire.
- [130:12]
John Russ
It's, you know, on our side, it's. It, it's, it's, it's. It's all about passion. Yeah.
- [130:18]
Eric
But the philosophies that she shares in that book on how to approach an existing business and take over apply.
- [130:23]
John Russ
Yes. Oh, certainly.
- [130:24]
Eric
I agree for sure. It's. I think it's a great place to start. It could be part of the solutions.
- [130:28]
John Russ
Yeah.
- [130:28]
Eric
You know, this has been so much fun, man.
- [130:29]
John Russ
I appreciate it.
- [130:30]
Eric
Who or how do we connect with you if we enjoyed this conversation at
- [130:35]
John Russ
the restaurant 100% of the time, as much as I can be here, I'm here. I post very infrequently on the Instagrams and the Facebooks. I do my best to stay away from them.
- [130:45]
Eric
More people should stay away from.
- [130:46]
John Russ
However, we have someone who runs our Clementine Instagram and Facebooks and if anything is ever, like, sent there, she. She makes sure to send it to me if it's meant for me.
- [130:56]
Eric
And what is the handle?
- [130:58]
John Russ
So we're at Clementine San Antonio, I think on both of the Instas and the faces.
- [131:04]
Eric
Okay, cool.
- [131:05]
John Russ
Email hello clementine-sa.com cool.
- [131:09]
Eric
And I would love to have you join a call. I do this thing called Coffee with Eric where if my listeners enjoy an episode and they want to connect with that person I have on the show, I'd love to get you involved with that in the future if you're ever interested. Abely. We'll talk about that after if you can make it happen. And this is episode 1,500. Sorry, 1,257. If you want to check out any of the links of any tools or services, any references, we'll try to link to those things there. And I literally cannot do what I do without people like you getting generous with their time, missing meetings for me.
- [131:43]
John Russ
No, let me miss more meetings.
- [131:45]
Eric
I'm in. I just can't say thank you enough. You make my.
- [131:48]
John Russ
It's our pleasure. Absolutely.
- [131:49]
Eric
There is no questioning. You are unstoppable.
- [131:51]
John Russ
We appreciate it. Thank you.
- [131:52]
Eric
Cheers. There's another episode wrapped up here at Restaurant Unstoppable.
- [131:57]
If you enjoyed today's conversation with John Russ.
- [131:59]
Well, guess what? You can join us for coffee with Eric on March 30th at 11:00am Eastern.
- [132:05]
And joining us for that conversation is also Kim Beechner.
- [132:08]
And Kim works with John.
- [132:10]
She does the marketing for John. So if you're looking to understand their
- [132:13]
relationship and how they, you know, know,
- [132:16]
work together as a restaurateur in marketing person and, you know, what, how they
- [132:20]
structure that and if you want to
- [132:21]
go deeper into, you know, Kim's mind
- [132:23]
as a marketer, in John's mind as a chef. And I mean, I loved his conversation today.
- [132:28]
So who knows what we'll discuss? That's the whole idea behind Coffee with Eric. It's just continued conversation. So if you enjoyed episode 1257 and you enjoyed episode 1256, then you can come hang out and continue the conversation. You can pull back the layers you wish I did when I had them in person on the podcast. We're just bringing people together. The mission statement is to inspire, empower, transform the industry. We inspire with story, with empower, with knowledge, but we transform with community. And transformation comes from the inside out. So when you surround yourself with the people the best in the industry, you become the average of those people. They elevate you. You then turn around and elevate your team. But also, like, if we're going to change the industry, if we're going to transform the industry, it has to happen from people like you coming to join the conversation to work on themselves, to elevate themselves. And the industry will change. And this is the second largest industry in the world. If we can lift each other up, we can change the world. That's what it's all about. We would have, we would love to have you be a part of it again. Head over to restaurantunstoppable.com CWE to join
- [133:31]
this conversation with John Russ and Kim Beechner.
- [133:33]
And head over to restaurantstoppable.com live if you want to have access to this
- [133:37]
and all future episodes and conversations. You. You support this podcast? When you do, and I cannot say thank you enough. We go further together. We'll see you there.