Loading summary
Transcript491 lines
- [00:01]
A
What up? Unstoppable. So I'm doing something I've never done before. This is a psa, a public service announcement. I'm helping out some friends in Charleston, South Carolina, Keith Benjamin, Jonathan Kish, and Scott Larrymore. Basically, this industry, our industry, independent restaurants, are under attack. And I've been saying this for a while now. You know, it's getting harder and harder for independent restaurant owners to do good work. We are not the beneficiaries of our hard work, and it's time for us to stop pointing our finger and saying somebody's got to do something about this. Keith, Jonathan, and Scott are a beautiful example of doing something about it, of standing up for yourself, of taking action, of, of, of, you know, rallying the troops and, you know, really just defending everything that is good about this country. And really, like, independent restaurant owners are the backbone or independent small business owners are the backbone of this country, and they are going away. And if we're going to world, the restaurant industry is going to change the world, it's going to happen from the inside out. And these guys are a great example of that. And I'm helping, I'm trying to help them get the word out. Basically. You know, what it comes down to is these dram shop laws are just crippling restaurants in South Carolina, and this could happen in different states. So hopefully, by sharing their story and creating awareness about what's happening in South Carolina, where essentially attorneys are just attacking independent restaurants, abusing, taking advantage of these laws to bury independent restaurant operators. And if we don't do something about it, if, if lobbyists don't do something about it, if we don't change the laws, you're going to see independent restaurant owners go away. And if they go away, it's game fucking over. So help us spread the word, get this message out. And if you have a message that you need to get out, a PSA in your community, please reach out to me. My platform is your platform. If we're going to change the world, it's going to happen from the inside out. We need to take action, and I will do anything I can to help. All right, here it is with excitement. Allow me to introduce to you today's guests, Keith, Jonathan and Scott. I know that's a crappy introduction. I'm gonna have you guys go deeper into each of who you are and what's going on real quick. This is the first, first time ever PSA on restaurant Unstoppable. And I'm actually honored to be here, excited to be here. It feels great to be able to help get the word out about how we can create change and educate people and just get that information out there. So I can't wait to kind of talk about what we're going to be talking about today. You know, basically a little teaser dram shop. Applause. You know, and where we are and what restaurants are dealing with, with the cost of insurance going up and how it's literally crippling restaurants. Unsustainable, fiscally unsustainable. We're going to talk about what we can do locally to influence these laws. But real quick, left to right. Keith, go ahead and introduce yourself. Past guests back on.
- [03:00]
B
Go ahead.
- [03:01]
C
Yeah. Eric, thanks so much for having me back on. Keith Benjamin, co founder, Uptown Hospitality Group we now have five different concepts here in Charleston dating back to 2018. Our flagship Uptown social, then share house bodega, another bodega location in Mount Pleasant we've got, by the way. And then we just opened the Waverly, which is a wedding and event space.
- [03:22]
A
So you were at three locations last time I spoke to you. You've opened three more since getting you.
- [03:26]
C
Congratulations. Thank you.
- [03:28]
A
Awesome.
- [03:28]
C
Thank you.
- [03:29]
A
Jonathan, Go for it.
- [03:30]
B
I'm Jonathan Kish, CEO of Queen Street Hospitality Group. Right now 82 Queen and our catering venue. Other than that, just kind of budding in real estate. And I've opened about 13 restaurants during my career and sold off quite a few of them.
- [03:43]
A
And I am coming back to Charleston for some more interviews, aren't I?
- [03:47]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [03:48]
A
And last but not least, Scott, go for it.
- [03:50]
D
Yes. Scott Larimore. Got five different restaurants here in Charleston. Just purchased the group in January. Actually been with the company for about 20 years. Started out as a bar back, worked my way up. So we have concepts on James island, three downtown with an event space, one over on Shem Creek and Mount Pleasant as well.
- [04:08]
C
Awesome.
- [04:09]
A
So I saw a video that Uptown Hospitality Group posted about basically getting the word out there that you guys are in trouble. Safe to say. Is that a good summary? Brief summary, yeah.
- [04:20]
C
Trouble would be an understatement. Back in 2017, the legislator passed a law here in the state of South Carolina making it mandatory for all establishments with a liquor license serving past 5pm Must carry a minimum of $1 million in liquor liability insurance. Back then, we none of us were.
- [04:43]
A
Over past 1pm Is that what I'm past 5pm Holy.
- [04:47]
B
And zero other regulation around. It just you have to carry a million dollars.
- [04:51]
A
Hit me with that, that full statement one more time. Anybody carrying what?
- [04:54]
C
Anybody, Any establishment, any licensed Establishment serving alcohol past 5pm Jesus. Must carry a minimum of a million dollars in liquor liability insurance insurance. Wow. So previous to that, I actually didn't even live here yet. Jonathan and Scott were operating. I don't think there was any requirement. Correct.
- [05:12]
B
There was no mandated requirement. Now, most of us did carry it, but then the mandated requirement that 17 changed a lot.
- [05:19]
C
Yeah.
- [05:19]
A
I mean, you'd be running a real risk not carrying insurance, serving alcohol, you know, like you want that insurance.
- [05:25]
B
Right.
- [05:25]
A
But you didn't. You weren't required to have it.
- [05:28]
B
Yeah, it really changed the insurance market. So obviously now you've got, in the state of South Carolina, what do we have, 3,500 restaurants?
- [05:35]
C
Yeah.
- [05:35]
B
Something that affects.
- [05:36]
A
It was post 2017, you said the.
- [05:39]
C
Law was signed in 2017 as a result of a case that. That occurred in 2014, is that right?
- [05:45]
B
I think that's right, yeah.
- [05:46]
D
2014.
- [05:47]
C
Okay. We can speak to that a little bit as well. Yeah.
- [05:50]
A
So you put this message out. What was at the core of that message?
- [05:53]
C
Yeah, the core of the message is that without any context or really restrictions around that $1 million, it became an open season. It created an open season on bars and restaurants. So essentially what happened was any case, whether it be a dram shop case, a slip and fall, you know, any sort of an occurrence that took place at your establishment, what started to happen in short order was really. And it took a little while for case law to shake out. So call it 2020, 21, 22, kind of coming through and out of the pandemic. All of a sudden it was multimillion dollar lawsuits against bars. It wasn't just the million dollars, but it was the million dollars plus umbrella, plus excess policies, etc. And it was, it became very quickly an unsustainable market for not just us as operators, but the insurers who were writing these policies in short order, the carriers were, I think, paying out $3 for every one they were taking in.
- [06:51]
B
Yeah. What you got to also add to that is, is our tort law in South Carolina. So we're a joint in several state. So joint in several. If you don't know what that means. So that if you not. And most.
- [07:02]
C
We're going to teach you a lot of lessons today.
- [07:04]
B
Most industries, if you are 50% liable or more, if you're found that way in the court, you will be held, you can be held 100% liable for the case. The restaurant industry industry was held to a different standard. And so add that to the million dollar liability insurance we were Held to a standard, if you were 1% liable in a case, you can be held 100% liable. So now the effect, if you go to 10 bars, you have a drink at 10 bars, you get knockered and you go drive and you kill somebody, the first bar to the last bar can all be held 100% liable for that case.
- [07:37]
A
Wow.
- [07:38]
B
And so the other piece of the puzzle is once a case settles, it doesn't necessarily make it to the jury. And so they don't know that bar 1, 2, and 3 settled. And so they don't know that maybe $3 million already went to them. So that is completely vacant from their, their thought process.
- [07:55]
A
Right.
- [07:55]
B
So then you get there, and then you get some of these giant cases, because part of it is they don't even know. And so when you being the jury, the jurors. Yeah. And I mean, obviously we don't want to go against victims rights. I mean, they need reparation.
- [08:07]
A
That's a real thing too. Right. Like that horrible things happen and people have to be taken care of when these things happen. But the liability, how like there's zero liability on the patron.
- [08:18]
C
Correct. We talk about, we. I mean, listen, the three of us and the several thousand operators around the state of South Carolina have talked about personal responsibility for a long time. Right.
- [08:29]
B
And it boils down to. They don't have the insurance coverage.
- [08:31]
C
Right? Yeah. So that. So, so, so, so the patron that comes into to one of my. One of our establishments, has a cocktail or two, decides to go do whatever they're gonna do. They might go on a boat, they might go out back to their house and have a 12 pack and then hit the road and hurt or kill somebody. You know, it's, it's, it's crazy to think that we don't have the ability to fight that because 1% equals 100%.
- [09:00]
A
Right.
- [09:01]
C
And, and that person might have $25,000 of car insurance, because that's all that's mandatory here in the state of South Carolina. And so they go and hurt somebody, they get sued. What are they getting sued for? They're getting sued for the 25k that they have in insurance. And if they don't have a job, or maybe they make, you know, 10 bucks an hour doing something or who knows?
- [09:21]
B
Yeah.
- [09:22]
A
You think of most of the people who are making these kind of poor decisions, you're young, Right. Or, you know, they're probably stupid, irresponsible.
- [09:30]
C
Yeah.
- [09:31]
A
If you're out and you're an adult making these decisions, you're probably not making great.
- [09:34]
C
I want to be. I want to be very clear before we go any further. We hate drunk drivers, Right? We hate them. Yeah. They are, they are the enemy. They are the common enemy here. Right. And we have been, you know, sounding that alarm and ringing that bell for a long time. You know, when, when, when Mothers Against Drunk Driving comes out and they, they. They wag their finger at us, we say, we're on the same team. Yeah, we're on the same team.
- [09:54]
A
We don't want this.
- [09:55]
C
We don't want this.
- [09:56]
A
Like, do you think it's good when this happens?
- [09:58]
C
No, we want, we want to do. We want to do it responsibly. But. But when people are coming in here and they, they present themselves as. As being able to behave themselves and they have a drink or two or three, you know, the amount of cocktails that you can have and I can have will surely be different based on a number of different factors. Might you have had drugs in your system?
- [10:16]
A
Well, that's the other thing I'm thinking about today, too. Like, there's so much between prescription drugs.
- [10:19]
B
Sure.
- [10:20]
A
And recreational drugs on the rise, where people, you know, you can get mushrooms, you can get, like, edibles, and like, you don't know what's in that person's system. They might have had an edible when they walked in the door. Right. Had two drinks, and 45 minutes later, they are under the influence of two drinks. And maybe they don't have a lot of experience with edibles.
- [10:40]
B
That leads right into one of the key things we're working on. Knowingly intoxicated.
- [10:44]
C
Yeah.
- [10:44]
B
What the hell does that mean? Right. Start. And how do you know if somebody's intoxicated?
- [10:48]
A
Yeah. The world we're living in is changing. Like, there's a lot of things that are accessible today. People are taking all kinds of things.
- [10:55]
C
Sure.
- [10:55]
A
Whether it be prescribed or recreational. And how do you. How do you. Like, how do you manage all that?
- [11:01]
C
Right.
- [11:01]
A
How do you control all of that?
- [11:02]
C
Right.
- [11:03]
A
Anyway, I digress.
- [11:04]
C
So. So, you know, the. Going back to your. Your question with the, the video that we put out last week, the Uptown Hospitality Group, you know, the logo at the end was the. The Responsible Hospitality Reform alliance, which the three. Three of us started with a few other operators around the state. And we started that and we put that video up as a result of the fact that if something is not done, frankly, over the next week in the state of South Carolina, at the state House, we stand. This state stands to lose another several thousand restaurants before the legislature comes back Next January. And the reason for that is because of the 47 carriers that used to write insurance policies in the state of South Carolina, liquor liability insurance policies, there are only two left. Wow. There are only two left.
- [11:53]
A
And of those 45 drops, and one.
- [11:55]
B
Of those two is not even writing new business.
- [11:57]
C
Right.
- [11:58]
A
So 47 originally.
- [12:00]
C
So let's just.
- [12:01]
A
Now there's 45 have dropped since 2017.
- [12:04]
C
Sure. Yes. And, and let's just go with the law of supply and demand. Yeah. If there's one left. Yeah.
- [12:09]
A
Here's the rate.
- [12:10]
C
There's the rate. Y, there's the rate. And, and those are those rates. Whether you own a couple restaurants like Jonathan, several restaurant restaurants like Scott and I's, Jonathan also has a catering business or, or a little mom and pop on the corner of a highway. It doesn't matter. You can't afford it.
- [12:25]
A
Right.
- [12:25]
C
The math just doesn't matter.
- [12:27]
A
Right. What would those rates be? Do you have any like, what are the projections?
- [12:31]
C
Oh yeah, we are, we are. Absolutely. We know what those rates are because we've all been quoted. I mean, you know, John, speak for yourself. I'll speak for myself, but yeah, yeah.
- [12:39]
B
I mean, so with ours. So back in. So I didn't really realize how much of an issue.
- [12:42]
C
Issue this was until we all have different style restaurants.
- [12:45]
B
And so I mean, you know, we're closed at 10 o' clock at night and you know, we, you know, we serve a lot of food. But back three years ago, I'm going to speak in percentages just for easy, easy numbers. Three years ago we were paying X for our liquor liability insurance. Two years ago it went up 70% and then it went up again. And so this is about the time, you know, Keith is talking about this.
- [13:07]
A
And where were you years ago in terms of like what were you paying?
- [13:10]
B
So we're paying about 20,000 a year.
- [13:12]
A
20,000. So then it went up how much?
- [13:14]
B
70%.
- [13:15]
A
70%.
- [13:15]
C
Wow.
- [13:16]
B
And so it starts to get unsustainable levels of like why are we paying this.
- [13:19]
A
Right.
- [13:19]
B
Keep the sound of the alarm. You know, before that, I think a lot of us didn't realize, you know.
- [13:23]
C
It was an issue because we're more, we are more alcohol forward than Jonathan or maybe Scott. And you know, we do have, we do sell a lot of food, but we sell more alcohol than we do food. And that plays against us, Us. Right. And therefore his, I don't want to speak to our numbers, but his, his 70%, we're up almost a thousand percent in five years.
- [13:43]
A
So you know, I Did a little bit of research to kind of try to wrap my mind around the conversation we're going to have today. I actually had Bar and Restaurant Insurance.com founder David D. Lorenzo on the show and he is a broker for insurance. We're talking about insurance and like, like I was just trying to like learn as much about like what insurance should we have, what shouldn't we, we like, like, you know, I think people try to save money on insurance and that's like the worst thing you can do. Like you want to be insured, right?
- [14:08]
C
And like, well, it's, it's become a catch 22 here in the state of South Carolina. Do we, do we want to be insured? Because right now whatever we're insured for is, is once again it's open season. So if we have, if we have a million dollars plus a 3 million or 10 million or 20 million dollar excess policy, then it's up for grabs.
- [14:23]
B
But I mean, to that point, just thinking like just quantities, I mean right now with my budget, it's a little over 4% goes to insurance. Wow, that's a lot.
- [14:31]
A
Yeah, I think ours is at 5% total overall gross. Yeah, 4 to 5% goes towards insurance. So. Okay, so the point I wanted to make, you know, in that conversation with David, he made it a point like I was like, is there anything we haven't discussed that you want to talk about? And the thing that he really wanted to drive home was. Exactly. What we're going to talk about today is that these insurance companies are having a field day and there's nobody holding these insurance companies liable and they're creating monopolies and we have to lobby against these insurance companies. And I've said this once, and I'll say it again, that it is getting harder and harder for independent restaurant owners to do good business, meaning take care of their employees, to purchase, you know, good quality products, goods, you know that the cost of goods are going up. And if we want to support local businesses and like purchase local from local farmers, farms and like quality ethically raised meats and all these things, these are all expensive things, it's getting harder and harder to do the right thing. If you're an independent restaurant owner and we are almost never the beneficiary of our hard work, all the adjacent industries, the landlords, the, you know, the insurance companies, everyone's getting a piece of our industry and we're left with pennies. So like it's, there's a greater thing going on here. As I'm saying this what do you guys think?
- [15:46]
B
Thinking what I was. My first thought is, you know, we're probably one of the last bastions of true small business, right? I mean, just think that through. Like, there's most everything is aggregating to bigger and bigger business, and we're one of the few small businesses left. And if we want to say small business is the backbone of this country, isn't this the industry we should invest in?
- [16:04]
A
100, man. Yeah, 100%. And I. And I've said this once, and I'll continue to say I. I think the restaurant industry is going to change the world because it's the one piece. Like the food has been changing the world and literally forming humanity, Homo sapiens, since we were called homo sapiens. It's because of food. We are what we are.
- [16:22]
B
Well, let's.
- [16:23]
C
Let's look at. Let's look at Covid, right? And what happened around Covid, right? What did people do? What did you see everywhere? Support local. Support local. Support local. Buy gift cards, get merch, do takeout, whatever. Right? And then the first places to reopen from the pandemic were the restaurants and the bars, and that is what triggered, hey, we're open again, right? That. That. That truly was what gave Charleston and every other small city in town and big city and town in the country the feeling of reopening. Right. And. And, you know, since then, we have all been challenged in a many million different ways as to how we can continue to give back to the community, and especially a place like Charleston where. Where folks are coming here to the tune of 8 million visitors last year here in Charleston. And. And what is our job to provide for them? Right. Well, how do you provide if you can't afford to provide? Yeah. Or go ahead.
- [17:15]
B
And it goes to your point of, like, taking care of the staff. I mean, that's one of the huge, you know, ethos of who we are as a company is taking care of them. And to that point, everything is getting more expensive. I mean, in Charleston. I mean, I'll pick on Charleston for a second. Housing costs are insane, and there's a lot that goes into that. You know, insurance is one. One piece of it. I mean, a property insurance has gone up 100, 150, 200% on everybody as well.
- [17:36]
A
What percentage of the buildings here are owned by Airbnb hosts? I'm curious.
- [17:41]
C
That's something we work on.
- [17:42]
B
I don't know the answer to that.
- [17:44]
D
I want to know that that's another.
- [17:45]
A
Problem we have to tackle.
- [17:46]
C
Well, the organization, the Organization, the Lowcountry Hospitality association that we all sit on the board of. I mean we are, we, it is half hoteliers and half restaurant owners. So we are not necessarily anti short term rental. But you know, there's a right way to do it the wrong way.
- [18:01]
B
But to your point, there has been a lot of venture capital money coming to the city, buying up single family homes.
- [18:06]
C
Yeah.
- [18:06]
B
And it is definitely affected the overall market.
- [18:09]
A
Yeah. And you have these transient people coming in. Right. You don't have loyal customers. Customers are more loyal to the marketplaces that they use to discover your restaurant. Like what am I doing? Am I loyal to Google? Am I loyal to Yelp? Am I loyal to James Beard? Am I loyal to Michelin Star? Like those are the marketplaces that are driving revenue right now, not relationships. Because the consumer, especially in markets like Charleston, are so transient. You don't have loyal casts like they're loyal to like how did I discover you? Yeah, you know.
- [18:38]
B
Right.
- [18:39]
D
I do want to touch on the employment side of it like Jonathan brought up and what the insurance part of it has done for our staff. I mean we get a lot of boat traffic and it's been really tough on our staff of doing. Do we serve these folks coming off of the boat? You know, we have, we have bartenders that have been with us for 30 years and they see these people coming off the boat, they got their coolers on the boat and it's one of those things. Do I serve them? Do I not serve them? You know, do I take a chance of pissing them off? And then we get blasted on social media. There's those outlets as well. And we've dealt with that a little bit right now. At James island in particular, you know, we had some boaters come up, they made a decision not to serve them. We got lit up on social media, media from making the right decision on people. And this because of the insurance. They're scared of what's going to happen if they make the wrong call. What's going to happen to the business? What's going to happen to them as an individual. So it's affecting our employment and our staff as well.
- [19:28]
C
Right.
- [19:29]
B
And that's a great comment on just the, the general consumer too. When you cut them off, they're an asshole.
- [19:34]
C
Yeah.
- [19:34]
A
Right.
- [19:34]
B
I mean, and obviously they're intoxicated. That's why you cut them off. But I mean I, in the last six months, I don't think I've ever cut more people off in my life. Yeah. And, and they, they will land Bass you in front of an entire dining room, and they don't give a. I mean, I think that's one thing, you know, another PSA is like, be a good consumer. Like, don't be an.
- [19:52]
A
Yeah. I mean, I think the conversation was gonna end up there. And that's kind of like, where it comes down to is like, the. You know, at the end of the day, it's like, there has to be a cultural shift, and it has to be with the consumer and educating the consumer. I think we have been told, like, you know, give the customer what the customer wants. Right? And it's really. At the end of the day, marketing is all about, like, reverse engineering what the customer wants. The customer wants more for less. Now.
- [20:14]
D
Now.
- [20:14]
A
And that's not sustainable, you know, and that's the messaging around marketing is give it to them faster, give it to them cheaper, give them more.
- [20:20]
C
Right.
- [20:21]
A
Value. And that's what the consumer wants.
- [20:23]
C
Right.
- [20:23]
A
But what the consumer really wants is to be happy. They want. You know, they want to be seen. They want to be valued. They want relationships. They want. They want the human element. Experiences, like, these are the things that they subconsciously want. And it's hard to deliver that when all you're giving them is what the marketing is telling them they want. I digress.
- [20:44]
C
Again, it's all factual, right? And the intoxicated person that's trying to get into Scotch Restaurant off a boat or not behaving themselves at Jonathan's Fine Dining. Imagine when I'm three or four deep here at Share House on a Saturday night, and I've got to cut people off or not let them in, and then they're on the sidewalk yelling and screaming at my. My partners, my managers, my security staff, telling them that their dad's gonna sue XYZ and, you know, they're gonna lose their job and, you know, fuck this person, and you can go fly a kite. And we're calling the mayor's office, and all sorts of threats are being made, and we're like, yo, we're just trying to keep you safe. Yeah, we're just trying to keep you safe. We're trying to keep the other guests safe. And, hey, not only that, but I've empowered my team to buy people Ubers, right? Hey, if someone seems like they're not gonna get home safely, buy them an Uber. Get them home safely. Right? And. And all of a sudden, we become public enemy number one, when in reality, we're just trying to save people's lives.
- [21:41]
B
Yeah.
- [21:41]
D
Then we're the first ones they sue.
- [21:43]
C
We're the first ones. They sue. Yeah.
- [21:45]
A
I think it's gotten to the point where we just. The industry has kind of given the consumer what they want. We've. Hospitality, hospitality ourself into a corner where it's like, all about giving, warmth, generosity, creating this false reality because we're transporting you to this place where you're supposed to forget about life. Right. But we can only give so much until there's nothing left to give. And, you know, we're getting to this point where it's like, you know, you know, what. What more can we do? We have to start communicating to the consumer and educating them and saying, we, we need your help. You know, like, if you want to continue. If you want to, like, continue to have these independent restaurant experiences and to have, like, this character and all this stuff. Like, we can't do it without you understanding the realities of the industry. But we don't share the realities because it's. That's not good hospitality. Right, Right. It's weird. It's a weird situation.
- [22:35]
D
I think when you share it. I mean, it's our same mentality right now. You share it with these guys and they say, well, well, that's not me. You know, you're. You're punishing me because of the bad apples. And we feel the same way as operators with the insurance side of it. Sure, there's bad apples. We want those guys to be dealt with and taken care of. But you can't punish everyone for a few bad apples.
- [22:53]
B
So.
- [22:54]
A
Yeah. How do we get here? I kind of wanted. Do you guys any of you know the history of the dram shop laws? Like where, like when they formed, how we got here?
- [23:03]
C
I. I can't speak to the history. I know that they go back approximately.
- [23:07]
B
100 years, I think the starting. And then there's some change, maybe post.
- [23:10]
A
Prohibition, far back enough that they called it dram shot.
- [23:13]
C
Right.
- [23:13]
A
Yeah.
- [23:13]
C
Right, right.
- [23:15]
A
Bar.
- [23:16]
C
Correct.
- [23:16]
B
But I mean, in the state of South Carolina, there was some major changes in the 70s.
- [23:20]
C
Yeah.
- [23:21]
B
To them. And then another major change in the 90s. And then we had the 2017 change. And so it's just been evolving since. And then in the late. Late 90s. Early 2000s. No, maybe mid-90s, is when the joint and several came in. And so that's. That's a whole other piece.
- [23:37]
A
Joint in several.
- [23:37]
B
So joint and several is the, the concept of, of multiple people can be held 100 reliable.
- [23:42]
C
Right, right, right. Or 1. Right. Or 1. 1% equals 100. Yeah.
- [23:47]
A
And I know 42 of the 50 states have dram shop laws.
- [23:51]
C
Correct.
- [23:52]
A
I think Florida, South Carolina and Texas are some of the most strict.
- [23:56]
C
So Florida doesn't have a dram shop.
- [23:57]
A
Yeah.
- [23:58]
C
Okay. Yeah. South Carolina is probably the most, the, the worst slash, most difficult for the operator itself to navigate. And that's, that's what we're fighting.
- [24:09]
B
Easiest to be held liable.
- [24:10]
C
Yeah.
- [24:11]
B
And I think Alabama used to be there, but they made some changes.
- [24:13]
A
But we're here talking about what's happening in Charleston. But this is a national conversation.
- [24:16]
C
Yeah, in South Carolina. Yeah, for sure. Because we, in the group that we started, we're partnered with folks from around the state.
- [24:22]
A
Okay.
- [24:23]
B
But. But it's also good to understand these are state by state laws. And so we can talk about it. It may be a national issue, but each state has to address it.
- [24:30]
A
Right?
- [24:30]
C
Yeah, go ahead. No, and to Jonathan's point, I mean, we speak to our cohorts in other markets in other states, and when we talk about our pain points, if three of us or anybody in the state of South Carolina is like, oh, my gosh, liquor liability insurance, and we bring that up to somebody in New York or Massachusetts or Mississippi or whatever, they're like, what do you worry about? Yeah, what do you mean? What do you mean? Liquor liability insurance. That's something that you're concerned with.
- [25:01]
B
It's not even on the radar.
- [25:02]
C
And then they ask us, and these are, these are seasoned veterans like we are. Can you talk about that a little more? We tell them, and they're like, that is absolute insanity.
- [25:10]
A
So what. What's different about South Carolina? Is it possible that other states could move in this direction? Is this, Are you the leading edge of what's the common. Different markets?
- [25:17]
B
I really, we really hope we're not, but I actually have heard that comment, is that there's other attorneys, other attorneys, attorneys saying that again, other attorneys in other states looking at South Carolina to model after. And it's really. We've created this cottage industry of, like Keith said, is it's really easy to sue somebody and win.
- [25:34]
A
Well, this is, this is really what I want.
- [25:35]
C
I'm interrupt you for one second. When you're in your truck, your camper, you know, and you start to just drive around Charleston over the next couple days. You're here for about a week, Right.
- [25:45]
A
Look at the billboard signs.
- [25:46]
C
Look at the billboard signs.
- [25:47]
A
I don't know how you're going to see.
- [25:48]
C
And if you happen to just throw your TV on at some point, just count the amount of commercials that advertise.
- [25:54]
A
Yeah, same thing David D. Lorenzo said.
- [25:56]
C
So personal injury.
- [25:57]
A
So the reason why I asked about the question about the history is like, how did we get here? Right. Like, what is, like what is the, what is at the core of what's happening right now? What, what are we lobbying against? Who is our enemy?
- [26:06]
B
Do we want to be completely cynical?
- [26:08]
A
Yes.
- [26:09]
B
I mean, cynical. It's attorneys. Yeah, it's attorneys making money off these small cases, turning them large.
- [26:15]
A
Okay.
- [26:16]
B
And it's becoming just way too easy to turn a small case to a large case or just suicide.
- [26:20]
C
And here's, here's, here's the bizarre world we're living in. You know who, you know who we have been working with very, very closely through this entire process at the direction of the Senate.
- [26:29]
A
Attorneys.
- [26:29]
C
Attorneys. Yeah, yeah.
- [26:30]
A
It's a, that's the way you got to fight fire.
- [26:33]
C
Mind blowing. Yeah.
- [26:35]
A
So I mean, what happened, what happened in 2017?
- [26:39]
C
So in 2014, I believe there was a, there was a young girl who was killed as a result of a drunk driving case. The individual who killed the third. Sorry, the drunk driver had been overserved and killed the third party, innocent third party victim. And there was no recourse. And the bar itself had little to no insurance and the drunk driver had little to no insurance. So there was no damages to be found. Right. And Fast forward to 2017. The law was rewritten to add a million dollars mandatory insurance coverage to every licensed establishment open past 5pm selling alcohol. Right. Right there. That's it. That, that's what changed everything. And with the already existing joint and several language and the lack of language or non existence of language to what Jonathan was just talking about before. Visibly intoxicated and knowingly intoxicated. So right now you are assumed under the current law, you are assumed to be intoxicated, more or less. If you have a drink.
- [28:01]
B
Yep.
- [28:02]
C
You have a drink.
- [28:04]
B
There is no standard.
- [28:05]
C
There's no standard. So no bartender or server would have any idea if. So I mean, right now. Yeah. If somebody was visibly intoxicated, if they just present themselves as being completely normal. Yeah. Right. And, and, and so therefore, under the current situation, scenario is this bad. So right now, 1% equals 100%. You sell one drink, you're on the hook. There's nothing that, that protects us against anybody being potentially intoxicated or not. They're just assumed to be intoxicated under the current law. Right. And there's a million dollars out there for the taking for any trial attorney that wants to sue us. More or less. Right. And so the money's there. There's zero defense. That's how we're here.
- [28:54]
B
Well, and then you think they're, like, talking to some of these attorneys. Juries don't like penalizing an operator. They don't give a shit about an insurance company.
- [29:03]
C
Yeah.
- [29:03]
B
And so they'll max out what the insurance company is willing to offer. So the million dollars coverage means we're going after a million dollars. If it had been 500,000 in 2017, they'd go after 500,000.
- [29:13]
A
So what happened is there's a giant piggy bank and the lawyers are just like, there's money sitting right there. We know we get at least a million. And they get a percentage of that.
- [29:22]
B
Yeah, a healthy percentage.
- [29:24]
D
Big percentage.
- [29:25]
A
So. So. So this is how we got here. What has to happen in terms of, like, the lobbying you create? Like, you're like, what is the solution?
- [29:34]
C
Sure. You want to speak to. To 244 and. And 34. 97.
- [29:39]
B
Yeah.
- [29:39]
C
So.
- [29:40]
B
So as Keith said, we started the group Responsible Hospitality Reform Alliance. That's a mouthful right there. But it was a group of. Group of independent operators across the state of South Carolina. So first thing we did is we hired a lobbyist, because that's what you need to do in order to get anything done in the State House or.
- [29:55]
A
That cost a lot.
- [29:57]
B
So. 10,000amonth. 10,000amonth.
- [29:59]
A
Who's paying for it?
- [30:00]
B
Us.
- [30:00]
A
The three of you.
- [30:01]
B
So we have. We have very intentionally not taken any outside money.
- [30:04]
C
Not this. We. We have.
- [30:06]
B
This is 100%.
- [30:08]
C
10 to 15.
- [30:10]
B
Yeah.
- [30:11]
C
Restaurants that have funded it so far.
- [30:12]
B
Yeah.
- [30:13]
C
Restaurant to restaurant groups.
- [30:14]
A
Why have you very intentionally not taken outside money? How many. How many issues are in this? This?
- [30:19]
B
There are. There are a lot of. There are a lot of interested parties in this. Specifically when we're talking about 244. So we'll talk about 244. We'll talk about 3,497, which is the House side. But a lot of interested parties in whether it's an attorney, whether it's Mothers Against Drunk Driving, whether it's the truckers, whether it's convenience stores, everybody has a different take on what they want out of this. And 244 affects everybody. And so every single industry in the state is affected by that bill. So they all have a different take. And so we've been here the whole time. Just like we need to support restaurants. Hospitality needs this, this, and this.
- [30:55]
C
Yeah.
- [30:56]
A
People like to group things in the restaurant industry. You can't even, like, generally Group the restaurant industry, because it's so diverse and.
- [31:02]
B
Historically, you know, we. As far as a voice, the restaurant industry is probably not the strongest. You know.
- [31:09]
A
Why do you think that is?
- [31:10]
B
Because we're busy as. And. Yeah, we're busy as. And we don't have time to go do this stuff.
- [31:15]
C
Yeah.
- [31:15]
A
And I think we're also. There's. And I think this is changing, but historically, we're also in competition with each other.
- [31:19]
B
Yeah.
- [31:20]
A
So we don't want to share information. We were in silos.
- [31:22]
C
I think it is changing, which is awesome. It's so awesome because technically, 10 years ago, I can't say that the three of us would be as good buddies as we are, even though we don't necessarily do the same.
- [31:32]
B
I'm pick on his yankeeism real quick. So here at Charleston, I think we've been unique for a long time. And so we actually, we've collaborated, you know, as I've been. I've been doing business here. Well, we've been doing business 42 years. I'm 41 years old, so I can't say it all that time, but we've been doing it the entire time. And it's always been collaborative amongst the restaurants. It's been a unique industry. And I even. I went to Arizona and did a restaurant out there. And it's probably very similar to doing one in New York where the guy next to you will tell you to off.
- [31:59]
C
Yeah.
- [32:00]
B
And so here it's, It's. It's been very collaborative. And back to. So historically, like, we don't have a. We don't have a very strong voice. So we partner with somebody else. They steamroll us. They get what they want to get done, and they don't give a shit about us. And we just get left behind.
- [32:15]
A
So you partner with somebody else. Another entity, typically another industry.
- [32:19]
B
Another industry. So another industry that's got a strong.
- [32:21]
A
To somebody with a bigger budget to lobby for you, but they have their.
- [32:24]
C
Alter think house of cards. Yeah. If anybody watches that show.
- [32:28]
B
Yeah. So this go around, we said, nope, we're sticking to. We're sticking in our lane. We're for us. We're only for us. And we're only taking money from us.
- [32:35]
C
Yeah.
- [32:35]
B
And I think we've gotten a lot done in the state House and the Senate sticking to that message.
- [32:41]
C
Yeah.
- [32:41]
B
The proof will be in the pudding next week.
- [32:43]
C
Yeah.
- [32:43]
B
But we think we've got a lot done. So to deep dive into some of these. These bills. We'll start with 3,497 because that's probably the simpler one to start with. So The House Bill 3497 effectively is trying to eliminate that exemption for restaurants being, you know, if you're 1% liable, you're held 100% liable. And so that whole exemption is about the same language as a drug dealer gets. And so that was our language with that, you know, is we need to be held to the same standard as other industries. Can we at least baseline that? And so that's one of the pieces other industries are fighting us on because they want to limit their liability too. And we're just asking to be held to the same.
- [33:21]
C
Yeah.
- [33:22]
B
So the other piece of 3,497 from the house was server training. And so I think there was a lot of people who thought we would fight this. And we were all 100% on board with, yeah, we're going to train our servers on how to cut people off. We're going to do the TIPS training or the serv safe or whatever you so summarize.
- [33:37]
A
244 is say, what is that again?
- [33:39]
B
So I was speaking 3,497.
- [33:41]
C
Yeah.
- [33:41]
B
But I wanted 244 is overall tort reform.
- [33:45]
A
Got it. And tort reform means.
- [33:47]
B
So tort reform, just liability reform in.
- [33:50]
A
General and across many different industries, not just the hospitality. And 3497 is specifically a hospitality bill.
- [33:58]
B
That will affect how we're treated and joint in several. And that. That torque piece. So to get us back to an industry standard, a normal industry standard and.
- [34:07]
A
Joint and several means it's a. And just. There's a lot of terms you're throwing. I just want to make sure everyone's following.
- [34:12]
B
Yeah. So joint and several is. Is. Is again the concept of if multiple parties are involved, if you are in a normal industry held 50% liable, you can be held 100% liable.
- [34:23]
C
Got it.
- [34:23]
A
And then 3497 one more time say.
- [34:25]
B
That would strike that. The fact that we. We are 1% liable gets us up to 50. So it gets us on the same standard as other industries.
- [34:33]
A
Got it.
- [34:34]
B
And so then the server training piece, which a hundred percent. Let's. Let's do it. You know, we're gonna try.
- [34:39]
C
They thought we were gonna fight that. They're. You know, they're.
- [34:41]
B
Yeah. The only thing we fought on that is penalties for not doing it.
- [34:44]
C
Yeah.
- [34:44]
A
And there's tons of resources out there today. It's not hard to get the materials to lower your insurance. Like all you need to do is have a program, a training program and a protocol in place, but to lower your insurance. Insurance. Right. Isn't.
- [34:55]
C
Yeah. And I'm all. And I'm also a believer that we, we do burden, you know, significant responsibility doing what we do. Right. And, and, and therefore, like, if you're unwilling to train your staff to serve responsibly, then you shouldn't be doing this. You should. I look at what we do as a privilege and I think all these guys would agree. Right.
- [35:15]
B
100.
- [35:15]
C
If you don't do it responsibly, you should lose that privilege. Yeah. Period.
- [35:18]
A
What is the privilege?
- [35:20]
C
The privilege to serve people. I think there's no greater privilege on the planet. And with that privilege comes unbelievable, an unbelievable amount of responsibility. And the responsibility to the guest to provide a safe experience while they're eating and while they're drinking and while they're socializing comes second to none. And so if there are operators that are unwilling to do so, then they should lose that privilege. And I believe in that. Yeah.
- [35:45]
B
And the only thing I'll add to that is, and I don't know if it's second or third or first is the responsibility to the staff. So they're the ones executing this, doing it day in, day out. They take the hits, you know, from the guests, but it's responsibility to them and keeping them safe as well.
- [36:01]
C
Yeah.
- [36:01]
A
And it's, it's never been easier to educate the staff. The, the materials, the resources are there. Oh gosh, there's. You don't have to go build a training program from scratch. Restaurant owner.com Restaurant Systems Pro has all this training built. Like, literally, if you're using a platform like wisetail or, you know, any one of those, like elearning platforms, they have the material that you can just basically repurpose.
- [36:26]
C
Yeah.
- [36:26]
A
You could ask Chat GPT to literally write you a training program on the specifics that you need. And it's not hard to make the training. I mean, it's hard to, to, you know, consistently go through the training and to, to actually educate people. But building the program is easier than ever, you know, so like, I don't know where I'm going with this, but like, there's no excuse. I guess what I'm trying to say.
- [36:48]
C
Yeah.
- [36:49]
B
And I think we're complete agreement. There is no excuse. Like, training people is not, it's not optional.
- [36:53]
A
Right.
- [36:53]
B
Like, you need to do it.
- [36:54]
A
Right.
- [36:55]
C
It's like, would a server walk in and, and be like, hey, could I have a job? And you'd be like, yeah, you start in an hour.
- [37:00]
B
Yeah.
- [37:01]
C
No, you would train them exactly. Right. Whether it be to, to, to, to do so responsibly, but also how to take a drink order. Right, right.
- [37:08]
D
Like, and, and I think the people that we hire, they, 95% of them want to be trained.
- [37:12]
C
Yeah.
- [37:13]
D
They, they want to do it correctly. You know, they don't want to get thrown to the wolves. They, there's 600 restaurants in the greater Charleston area. They'll, they'll go to one that can train them and get them on board.
- [37:21]
C
Yeah.
- [37:22]
A
So point being, you're not resisting training, correct?
- [37:25]
D
Right.
- [37:25]
C
Yeah, not at all.
- [37:26]
A
That's not what's going on here. And that's what they're accusing you of.
- [37:28]
B
So that's where they thought we'd fight on it. We never did, you know, from the get go.
- [37:32]
A
And then because they're thinking costs of labor going up, we're not. Yeah. Like we don't care about the cost of training. We care about the 4% to our bottom line.
- [37:40]
B
Correct.
- [37:40]
C
Yeah.
- [37:40]
B
Yeah. And so the, the last piece of 3,497, you kind of referenced it before is how to lower your insurance is giving you things you can do to reduce your, your total liability insurance. So if you serve a train, knock down $100,000.
- [37:53]
A
Right.
- [37:54]
B
If you close at midnight, knock down $100,000 dot if you close at 11, knock down $100,000.$ yeah.
- [37:59]
A
So I, in my conversation with David D. Lorenzo, if you guys want to check out that episode, it was episode 1087. Anybody listening to this? We kind of go into like, how do you, how does your, your, your insurance rate get set? And it's basically they, they factor your amount, the amount of viability, you know, like how risky is your business. And there's things, training is one thing you can do to lower your business, your, your risk. I assumed because I know that you like, I know Uptown Social is a late night spot. So you're, you're demographic young people up. You're open till 2:00am Yep.
- [38:31]
C
Up. Yep.
- [38:32]
A
You're downtown.
- [38:33]
C
Yep.
- [38:33]
B
Up.
- [38:34]
C
Yep.
- [38:34]
A
You're in an old building.
- [38:36]
C
That doesn't really factor in because all.
- [38:38]
A
These are the properties, property insurance.
- [38:40]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [38:41]
A
So I'm like, well, are you like a, like, you know, are you kind of like a unicorn? And I was wondering if that was going to come into today's conversation.
- [38:47]
C
Yeah, I mean, but you clearly pointed.
- [38:50]
A
Out that if, you know, if you're, if you're serving past 5:00pm Right. So, yes, that kind of eliminated all those thoughts that I was having.
- [38:57]
C
But it's still, it's still, it's still, it still means something. I mean my business and Jonathan's business and Scott's different business are not going to be quoted the same. Right, right. It just, the, the, the, the risk is different. I understand, I understand that. Right, right, right.
- [39:10]
A
But there is that blanketed element of the 5pm or and it has affected.
- [39:14]
B
Almost every alcohol serving establishment in the state.
- [39:16]
A
Yeah. Because when you said like 40, how many restaurants are going to close?
- [39:19]
C
Oh gosh, I can't say that it's.
- [39:21]
B
Hard to quote but it's, you know, you think about a mom and pop that's doing, you know, $700,000 a year. If they got to pay a hundred thousand dollars a year and done liquor, I mean who can do that?
- [39:29]
A
So what's going to happen is, is it on the 9th, 8th? The 8th?
- [39:32]
C
Yeah.
- [39:32]
D
It's got to be done by the.
- [39:33]
A
The and so by on the 8th. What's going on? Like what. So they're. This bill is going. These two bills. 244 and 34. 97.
- [39:41]
C
I'm gonna interrupt you for one second. What's funny is the question you're about to ask and the questions you've been asking to Jonathan, Scott and myself, you're asking three restaurant bar guys. Right. We over the past call it three months.
- [39:53]
B
Four months.
- [39:53]
C
Three, four months. Have had to somehow become experts in South Carolina state politics and what goes on at the state House. Like talk about absolute market mind blowing kind of life changing behavior for all of us. I mean this is stuff that none of us have paid any attention to in our entire life because why would we. I mean it's not something we've been like.
- [40:16]
B
You're joking. All these terms of throwing out. I didn't know a single one of them.
- [40:22]
C
Right. Contin continued resolution. But we're getting stuff from our attorneys that I'm googling like I don't know what this stuff means.
- [40:29]
B
And so you're speaking of c seen a die.
- [40:31]
C
Yeah.
- [40:31]
B
Who the heck knows what that means? But it's, it is, it is the last day something can go through the house or the side.
- [40:37]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [40:38]
A
So what is the message we need to get out and like who is the message going to like who needs to hear this? And what is the core at the core of like what we can do today to change things.
- [40:49]
B
And I do want to talk just 244 real quick if we can. So we haven't really talked 244 so 244 is the overall tort reform that and it is, it is aggressive. There's a lot going on in there. It's going to affect all the industries. Hospitality was a big piece of it as well and probably the most debated piece of it. And a lot of it was the same issues we talked about with 3,497. Some of the issues that differed were the definition of visibly intoxicated, creating that standard for that, the server training being mandatory. However, if you didn't do it, the punishments were severe. In the original drafting of it, the first punishment was a suspension for six months. That's a death sentence. I mean for any, any operator.
- [41:32]
A
One week.
- [41:33]
B
Yeah, one week is one. Like it's almost a death sentence in a week.
- [41:37]
A
Right.
- [41:38]
B
And then the other big piece of that, of 244addresses joint and several in general. So that's where all the industries wanted to talk was it's, it's addressing how joint and several is, is addressed for everybody.
- [41:50]
A
So you're trying to make it a nightmare for the lawyers, basically the attorneys to come in and like you need clear language so that they can't do their, their correct litigative voodoo.
- [42:00]
C
I want to go back to one thing. When the one week suspension or the six months or whatever. It's funny because somebody at one point said to me, why don't you, why doesn't all of Charleston just strike on a Saturday night? Yeah, just strike. Just shut it all down and see what that does to the entire, you know, economy of Charleston. And I was like, man, that's a great idea, but shit, we can't afford that.
- [42:21]
B
See what it does to the economy of my restaurant.
- [42:23]
C
Yeah, I mean there's just. But that speaks to the mom and pop nature of what we do. You close for one Saturday night, that could be game over for a lot of us.
- [42:30]
B
I mean, so you think, let's say we're back to seasonal. So we have winter again. You've got to make money in spring and summer to pay for your winner. And so hopefully you get something left over out of that. I mean that's, that's just the core of a restaurant operator, right. Is, is you hope you got something left over at the end of the day, but what if, what if you did that in winter? Like you're honestly bleeding your ass out.
- [42:52]
A
If you want to get the word out if Charleston shut down on a Friday during, in the spring. During like what?
- [42:58]
C
Like you guys, this Friday tonight.
- [43:00]
A
Like this is peak season for you guys coming into peak season. How many Bachelorette parties would, like, be there. Devastated.
- [43:06]
C
I mean, I would. I would. I would argue that 95 of Charleston restaurants tonight are. Are fully booked.
- [43:13]
A
You want to get national news?
- [43:15]
C
Yeah.
- [43:15]
A
Yeah, do that. One thing the world will know about this.
- [43:17]
B
I don't know the capacity of all the restaurants in Charleston, but to his point, let's say it's. Let's say it's 40,000 guests tonight. Like, that's 40,000 people who can't eat, can't have a drink.
- [43:25]
C
Right.
- [43:26]
B
That's a lot of damn people.
- [43:27]
D
They really don't understand why we are doing it. So then you. Repercussions.
- [43:31]
A
Right. You know, but it would definitely get news. It would definitely get attention, and the word would get out. You know, it'd be a rough Friday to miss that revenue. But that. To your point, the power of the restaurant industry.
- [43:42]
C
Yep.
- [43:43]
A
So prior to that, you were talking 244. You said training. What was the other?
- [43:50]
B
Knowingly intoxicating.
- [43:51]
A
So what. So what is the language that you're lobbying? Like, how do you want to change the words?
- [43:55]
B
I'm curious about that. There's been, and this is a. This is a. Probably a master's degree in law is understanding what one word can do. So the original drafting of it was if you serve somebody who is knowingly intoxicated or you would have or should have known that they could become intoxicated. There's a lot going on.
- [44:13]
C
Say that one more time, Eric. Eric looks perplexed. Because we've. We've. We've been going. We've been going through this now for. For the better part of four months.
- [44:21]
A
One more time.
- [44:22]
B
The core of that statement was one sentence. If you were to serve someone, somebody that you knowingly intoxicated or you knowingly.
- [44:28]
A
Intoxicated, that they were knowingly.
- [44:31]
B
And you knew they were intoxicated, or based on what you served them, they would become intoxicated.
- [44:37]
A
So that next drink pushes them over.
- [44:39]
B
Correct.
- [44:39]
A
Right.
- [44:40]
C
Think about that for a second. Would become.
- [44:42]
A
Right.
- [44:42]
C
Would become. You might become. You might become intoxicated at a different point than when Jonathan or when Scott or myself or your girlfriend or my.
- [44:51]
B
Wife talking blood alcohol content. We're just talking behavior. Visually intoxic. And so.
- [44:56]
C
And I don't know where you've been.
- [44:57]
D
Before or what you've taken on a.
- [45:00]
A
Busy night when you have. When you're like four people deep, you know, across the entire bar, like, and there's noise and the lights are dark and there's music going, like, you could be, you know, like, Watson or like, you know, who's that? Like who's that inspector? The, the Watson's the partner of whatever and like master of detail. And in that environment trying to serve that many drinks.
- [45:27]
C
Yeah.
- [45:27]
A
You wouldn't be able to pick up on that many transactions happening at once.
- [45:30]
C
Yep.
- [45:31]
A
So anyway, so, yeah. Knowingly intoxicated.
- [45:34]
B
Yeah. And so those are the big ones. And then, then overall tort reform.
- [45:36]
A
Right.
- [45:36]
B
And so we got lumped into overall tort reform and there was a lot of fight, you know, based on. We just want to be held to the same standard as you, obviously. We want every. Everything else too. We want joint and several to. To become less severe for everybody.
- [45:48]
A
But what I'm curious about, how are you going to change the wording? Like are you guys working on, like this is what the, the, like the wording should be.
- [45:55]
C
So this is, this is the crazy part is that we have been working at the instruction of the Senate, we've been working with the trial attorneys with the trial bar, the state of South Carolina. Our attorneys. Yeah. And their attorneys to come up with language that we can both agree on. And the cool thing I will say is that these trial attorneys have said, listen, grand scheme, we actually do want to support local restaurants best we can. Right. With still being able to defend the folks that are getting injured or killed and their families. Right. And they're looking at, I believe, and correct me if you believe I'm wrong, guys, they're looking at us as contributing members to the state of South Carolina. Whereas they might look at bigger industries, and I'm not going to mention any of them, but they might look at bigger industries that are more nationally focused, if you will, but also have a footprint here in the state, as those are the industries that they'll go after more so than the restaurant industry. And therefore they have been much more amenable now than ever before to work with us.
- [47:05]
B
And I'll say they also kind of view us as like their sacrificial lamb. Yeah. So like they will compromise with us.
- [47:11]
A
These are the attorneys.
- [47:12]
B
Yes, these are the attorneys. So they'll compromise and help us get what we want to get to not lose. Over here, where he's saying like the bigger cases, you know, those 20, 30, 40 million dollar cases, they don't affect that.
- [47:23]
A
So are these bigger cases within the hospitality industry?
- [47:26]
B
No, they're outside of our industry. Yeah, yeah, but they'll compromise and help us get what we need to get.
- [47:31]
A
But they're still associated with 244.
- [47:33]
C
Yes, yes.
- [47:33]
A
And 244 is basically the liability of serving alcohol.
- [47:36]
B
No, the liability of life of anything.
- [47:40]
A
Got it. Liability.
- [47:41]
C
Okay.
- [47:43]
A
So again, back to this idea of like, what needs that? So come the 8th, these bills 244 and 3, 34, 97 are going in in front of.
- [47:54]
C
They've already been, they've already been circulating the House and the Senate. The House bill has been in the Senate, the Senate's bill been in the House right now. There's, there's two bills that are circulating that both chambers are trying to come to an agreement on.
- [48:05]
A
And who. Whose ears need to hear today's message?
- [48:08]
C
Who.
- [48:08]
A
Who are you trying to get this message in front of?
- [48:10]
B
The most important ears are our legislators in South Carolina. So they're the ones that are actively voting on this right now. So obviously we want the consumer to understand this. We want, you know, all business owners, all restaurant owners to understand what's at stake here. But the legislators have the power at the moment because they're the ones that are going to be voting. So that being said, restaurateurs, we need them to talk to their legislators. They don't. If they don't hear from their legislator, they may think this is not an issue. And so I think we've done a good job. I don't want to say weaponize, weaponizing, you know, other operators in the state, but there's still a lot that don't even. No, they don't comprehend this issue. We barely comprehend the issue. And we've gotten a masterclass in it in the last three months.
- [48:51]
C
Yeah. And we. There, there's a, there's. It's really important that, you know, the state of South Carolina and any voter understands that, that these elections now matter more than ever. They just do. They do. You look at the, at a federal level, you look at a state level and you look at a local level, politicians are. Have their hands in the mix more than ever before. And things are getting done, and they're getting done the right way, and they're getting done the wrong way, and they're getting done everywhere, every way in between. And if politicians aren't going to support small business, if they're not going to support their local bars and restaurants, then it's up to the voters of South Carolina to decide if these are the right politicians to represent us.
- [49:39]
A
Right.
- [49:39]
C
Right. And that's, that's where it's really cool to know that we all have that power.
- [49:44]
B
Yeah. I think, I mean, one thing people need to understand is these, A lot of these issues are won and lost in the primaries.
- [49:49]
C
Yeah.
- [49:49]
B
And I think as a society, we don't take primary serious.
- [49:52]
A
I was just thinking that. Literally just thinking that, like, back to the consumer, like, we are so consumed with media and gaming or television or like, media. Like, we are not. Like, we are so disconnected to our local politics than ever before. Like, you look at, like, how many people go out to vote for, like, the, the prime, like the primaries and just like local, like, it all starts locally. Right. We don't know who. Who are, like the leaders are in our own community because we just don't care.
- [50:20]
C
You want to hear something? When we were in Columbia, the state capitol, about a month ago, for. For what's called Hospitality Day, we went up there and we actually had a press conference to talk about what we needed done and how important it was for not just the state of South Carolina, but Charleston specifically. I did a press conference with the mayor of Charleston. He got up there and he represented our industry and spoke on behalf of our industry and what it means to Charleston and the entire state of South Carolina. And Mayor Cogswell used to have a seat in the House of Representatives in Columbia. And that is a man who got up and stood for what he believed in and stood up for our rights. And we'll never forget that. And, and, and, and, and he has continued to battle for us, as have the mayors of the big five kind of South Carolina communities.
- [51:05]
B
And to your point, too, I mean, just like the local politicians matter so much more to people's lives. All this talk federal and everything that's going on, federal, 90% of what they're going to do there will not trickle down to us.
- [51:16]
A
I don't have the stats, but they're low. Percentage of people that go out to vote for local matters or for local, like, you know, politics, like.
- [51:24]
B
Yeah, but that's the thing that will impact your life.
- [51:25]
A
Exactly. And it's cool. And I like to make this point. We look at, like, the history of hospitality industry going back to, like, when this country was being settled in order to form a new town. The first thing that you needed to do before you could be considered. Not the first thing. I know if it's the first thing, but I know you needed to be a town, you needed to have a public house. What do you think the. The word public hub comes from? Yeah, it was literally where everything happened. It was the. It was everything. It was the Internet. It's where you got your news, your. Your entertainment. It was where you got your mail. It was. It was where you Got your entry. Like, it was literally the Internet, like what we consider the Internet, where we got our entertainment, our information, our news, our.
- [52:02]
C
Our.
- [52:03]
A
Like, whatever that was the bar. Like, like revolutions literally started in bars. And I think that we need to kind of remember, remember, like, you know, like, go to your local watering hole. Like, go talk to people in your community. Like, host these. These. These places where people can come together and talk about what's happening so you can start making change locally. And that's. I think one of the many ways the restaurant industry is going to change the world is by educating the consumer, creating the space for the.
- [52:29]
C
The.
- [52:29]
A
The. The. The consumer or the, you know, the, The. The average j. Average day. Jane and Joe. Joe, just a comment.
- [52:36]
C
Talk.
- [52:37]
A
You know.
- [52:37]
C
Yeah, I've had a couple people, Eric, very recently, and I think this is what you're getting at. Like, what. What can be done now? What needs to be done right now? And in fact, my wife said, like, I've had a bunch of friends reach out because they see our stuff on social media and they're like, explain this in layman's terms. It is so confusing that. That. That my wife, who's been living it with me, doesn't get it right. She's like, I can't even explain it to these people. So I think in layman's terms, in the next week, what we need people to understand is that the risk of more of thousands of South Carolina restaurants and bars going out of business is very real. Very, very real. If something is not done in the next week, what needs to be done? Either 3497 or 244 or a hybrid version of both need to get to the governor's desk and signed. And what does that mean? That means that joint and several will be changed in our favor. It means that the knowingly visibly intoxicated would be added to the language in our. On our behalf. Therefore, our bartenders or servers would have to know that somebody was visibly intoxicated to not serve them, period. Right. And that's it.
- [53:56]
B
And I do want to say so there is. So 244 is the overarching liability tort reform bill. And I think there's been a lot of messaging out there that says that we're against it and it's only because we want what we want. We want what we need. And I think the state of South Carolina does need 244 overall. And so what we're asking is we need to get something done today to support the restaurant. If that's 3,497. That's great. Then we're going to kick the fight up for 244, too. We're going to join the ranks.
- [54:24]
C
Yeah.
- [54:25]
B
But we need something today.
- [54:26]
C
Yeah.
- [54:27]
B
And if 3,497 is a great starting point, 244, that's probably a monumental task to get done in the next seven days.
- [54:35]
A
Well, anything I can do to help.
- [54:37]
C
So it's, it's, it's. Contact your local lawmakers to let them know that you care about South Carolina restaurants and bars and that you need something passed now. And to our legislators and our lawmakers that hear this, please get something done. Yeah, yeah.
- [54:55]
A
Scott, I know it can be tough to get a word in with John.
- [54:57]
D
Yeah, no, no, it's good. Well, you were just, you were asking about the messages that, you know, need to get out. And I do want to say Keith has put out some great messages on his platform for Uptown Social. I also want people to understand because I've had neighbors come to me. Oh, well, if this gets changed by May 8, does that mean you guys are off the hook for servicing or anything like that? And people still have to be smart. You know, you're a big advocate.
- [55:21]
B
Don't.
- [55:22]
D
Don't drink and drive. Don't drive. Don't go anywhere if you're under the influence. And I want people to understand that. I tell my kids all the time, good decisions lead to good things and bad decisions lead to bad things. And it's pretty simple for the consumer as well. This doesn't take us off the hook completely. So please be smart.
- [55:37]
A
Well, yeah, I mean, that's part of what. Of the things. I was curious too, like, what, what is the solution if, if, you know, finding the bar isn't the solution. What is the solution?
- [55:44]
B
Don't drink and drive.
- [55:45]
A
Yeah.
- [55:46]
B
Super simple.
- [55:47]
A
Look at like Europe, right? You look at England, right? Like, could we mimic some of their laws, like where, like they have really tight, like, drinking and driving laws.
- [55:55]
C
We would love.
- [55:56]
B
So the funny thing is we've been all four stricter DUI laws and we've actually been getting fight back on it.
- [56:01]
A
Well, of course.
- [56:01]
B
Yeah.
- [56:02]
A
Like, yeah. I mean, that's dating.
- [56:04]
B
Like, we're, we're all. I, I'm all for lock people up who drink and drive.
- [56:06]
C
Yeah.
- [56:07]
A
That if, if there's any cracking down, it should be on the consumer and maybe not on the insurance side of things, but on, like, if, if you make the penalty severe, like loss of license and like years in jail or like whatever. Like if you make it so like not worth it. Like that is just. I. No, no, not worth it. How fast would things change?
- [56:29]
C
And has. Has strict DUI language in there. Yeah.
- [56:33]
A
I mean, part of that too is also like, you know, like creating the infrastructure to be able to get people around. You know, I think also part of it is that in Europe, like every corner has a pub. Like you're within walking distance. Most people, they're loyal to the pub. You know, it's like family. Like we can learn a lot from European hospitality. It's just a different, like, like the, the consumer in America is very loyal to whatever trendy. It's whatever photo I can take today. You know, like there needs to be a stronger relationship between the consumer and the, the patron and the, and the, you know, the restaurant or the pub.
- [57:08]
C
Like, and let's take care of one another.
- [57:10]
A
Yeah, 100%, you know, and I think that's part of the solution. One other thing I think we can talk about before we wrap it up and you guys are forming your own coalition here. You're also a part of a. The state level, the state restaurant association.
- [57:23]
B
The South Carolina Restaurant Lodging Association.
- [57:25]
A
So I think this is something as restaurant owners we could be much better about too, is. I know there, there are bubbling up like independent restaurant coalitions. Like there's things that are happening right now. I want to dive into all that stuff. Frankly speaking, I don't know a lot about what these are all within the past couple years bubbling up. Right. What can we do at the, the state level to, to get more involved to, to. To have these state associations lobby for us. The independence by us, I mean the independence, not restaurants. Because right now most of these, these associations are lobbying, I think it's safe to say, for larger entities. Right. So like how do we. I think that's part of the solution.
- [58:00]
B
I think, I think you've said it without saying it is find your local association, whether it's a local like city restaurant association or state level restaurant association. Find that, participate in it. I mean, at a minimum, just participate in it. And there are other associations popping up like the irc, the Independent Restaurant Coalition. And I think they actually take some of the voice away right. From your local association, but find your local and participate in what they're doing. Maybe get a leadership role with what they're doing. Talk to the director.
- [58:31]
C
Yeah.
- [58:32]
A
Can you get into like how they're taking that away? I mean this is a kind of an adjacent conversation. But I'm from my own curiosity like, these are entities that I'm interested in learning more about, maybe even getting on the show.
- [58:41]
B
I think it goes more into like, just political science. Right. And so it's. So if you've got multiple people talking to a legislator, even if it's a nuanced different of the same topic, they're going to hear it differently from both people. And it may be the same core issue, but you have a little nuance different this way. And so now you've like, well, so and so is over here talking to me about liquor liability. And so. And so is over here talking to me liquor liability. And one of them says it's not really that big of an issue.
- [59:07]
A
One of them does. So it has to happen at the local level, these entities.
- [59:11]
B
Yeah. Aggregating our voice is important. Yeah. And, you know, unfortunately, with the political system we have, I mean, lobbyists hold a lot of power, and you need the lobbyist and you need to consolidate. So if you've got 500 restaurants, you know, under talking to this one lobbyist, you got 10 talking to this other one, you know, whose voice choice means more.
- [59:29]
A
Right.
- [59:29]
B
You know, and that. That one with 10, they might have the best ideals in the world, but it doesn't matter.
- [59:34]
C
Right.
- [59:34]
B
You know, Bor. They may confuse the legislator, and that's probably the worst case scenario.
- [59:38]
A
Right. Any advice to anyone listening to this who might want to get involved locally to start their own coalition? Maybe they're feeling that maybe it's not as bad as South Carolina, but they, you know, like, how do. Like, what advice you guys have in terms of, like, coming together, starting coalitions, lobbying, like, you know, generally lobbying to help support each other. Like, any advice before we wrap it up?
- [60:01]
B
Yeah, I mean, so what we did is. I mean, it was a group of us, you know, they got together, and we're not going against our association. We just feel like this was. It was an issue that needed to be kind of handled separately. And so there's. Without getting into, you know, the political underpinnings of South Carolina politics and who doesn't like who and all this. We needed it just to be operators. Got it. And so we didn't need, you know, anybody else really involved. We needed operators talking directly to legislators.
- [60:28]
C
Yeah.
- [60:29]
A
The language needed to be customized for the uniqueness of the.
- [60:32]
B
Yeah. And it's. And it's. It. You know, I use the word nuance. It's so nuanced. So you have one. One word different and you could be.
- [60:38]
C
Yeah.
- [60:39]
B
So, yeah, we've had.
- [60:40]
C
We've had our attorney, you know, look at, look at something and say like this one word could go in front of the Supreme Court and, and get a different opinion from, you know, eight different justices. Like, it just, it's just so convoluted and so confusing. But I, you know, to answer your question, the advice is, you know, find like minded individuals. You know, a question or a topic that we were talking about before is, you know, why do, why do restaurant folks kind of not get as involved as maybe other industries? And it's because we are mom and pops and we are so darn busy. Restaurant. Right. But at the same time, we are the ones who are taking care of our communities. Not just by selling drinks and selling food, but we're the first people that anybody calls for a fundraiser or for a donation or for a sponsorship or you, you name it.
- [61:27]
A
How many times are we somebody's first job ever?
- [61:29]
C
First job. But also think about a hurricane, think about a natural disaster, think about a terrorist attack. Who are the first people out in the streets feeding people. We're getting people water.
- [61:38]
A
Where are you going after a funeral?
- [61:40]
C
Where are you going after a funeral? Right.
- [61:41]
B
Even just another little thing like where do you find customer service in this country anymore?
- [61:45]
C
Right.
- [61:45]
B
This is the only place.
- [61:47]
A
Yeah.
- [61:47]
B
You can find things.
- [61:47]
A
Getting outsourced. Automation or AI.
- [61:49]
C
Yeah.
- [61:49]
B
So back to your point of relationships. I mean, this is where you build relationships.
- [61:53]
C
Yeah.
- [61:54]
A
Guys, it was a, a privilege to be able to sit and to help get the word out. I want to do more stuff like this. If you're listening to this and you have a, a public service announcement, some information that needs to get out, don't hesitate to reach out to me. Email me, Eric, at Restaurant Unstoppable. I'd love to help you guys get the word out. It was an honor to help you guys get the word out. And I will be calling you on the 8th. Hopefully. I don't know if you'll have an answer by the 8th.
- [62:18]
C
Knock on wood.
- [62:19]
D
We hope so.
- [62:19]
C
Yeah, that's hopefully, but hopefully it's a good, hopefully it's a good answer. But you know, thank you.
- [62:25]
A
I mean we have to, we have to start communicating, educating each other because it's like I said, it's getting harder and harder for independents to do the right thing. And it's only going to continue to get harder unless we start communicating and joining forces to lobby and to go further together.
- [62:39]
C
And the last thing I'll say is, first of all, thank you, but I implore everyone to just do their part right so consumer the guest, please do your part. Do not drink and drive. To our fellow operators, let's do so responsibly. Let's do our part. And to the legislators, do the right thing. Do the right thing and give us a shot because, you know, we're here for everybody. Please be there for us.
- [63:02]
A
Awesome. Thank you, fellas. Cheers.
- [63:04]
B
Thank you.
- [63:04]
C
Thank you.
- [63:05]
A
I like to echo the mission statement here, Restaurant Unstoppable. It is to inspire, empower, and transform the industry. And we do that by coming together, sharing knowledge, and, you know, forcing change from the inside out. And again, Keith, Jonathan, Scott, what you guys are doing in South Carolina is something that needs to be made an example of, and you have a message that needs to get out. If you are trying to make change in this industry, if you're trying to do the right thing, if you're trying to make it possible for independent restaurant operators to go forward with success in the future, please reach out to me. My platform is your platform. You know, I. I will help you get the message out. I want to do more content like this, and I'm here for you, so don't hesitate to reach out. Eric Estaurant Stoppable.com and I hope you guys are inspired by this. All right, thanks for checking out this very special public service announcement.