Restaurant Unstoppable: PSA—Dram Shop Laws Crippling the Industry

Episode Date: May 3, 2025
Host: Eric Cacciatore
Guests: Keith Benjamin (Uptown Hospitality Group), Jonathan Kish (Queen Street Hospitality Group), Scott Larimore (Multiple Charleston Restaurants)

Overview

In this groundbreaking PSA episode, Eric Cacciatore brings on three leading Charleston, South Carolina restaurateurs—Keith Benjamin, Jonathan Kish, and Scott Larimore—to address an existential crisis facing independent restaurants: the crippling effects of South Carolina’s dram shop laws and accompanying insurance requirements. The guests detail how legal and insurance frameworks are driving restaurants out of business, campaign for urgent legislative change, and urge consumers and industry peers to understand what's at stake and take action.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Industry Under Attack (00:00–04:08)

• Opening Statement: Eric frames the episode as the first-ever PSA on Restaurant Unstoppable, emphasizing that independent restaurants are “under attack” by legal and insurance pressures.
• Call to Action: "If we're going to change the world, it's going to happen from the inside out. We need to take action..." (A, 01:17)

2. Guest Introductions and Restaurant Profiles (03:00–04:07)

• Keith Benjamin: Co-founder, Uptown Hospitality Group—five Charleston concepts, just opened new event space (03:00)
• Jonathan Kish: CEO, Queen Street Hospitality Group—82 Queen, multiple locations, 13 restaurants opened/sold (03:28)
• Scott Larimore: Owns five Charleston restaurants, worked up from barback to owner (03:47)

3. The Crisis: South Carolina Dram Shop Laws (04:08–13:42)

• 2017 Legislation: Mandated all establishments serving alcohol past 5pm must carry a minimum $1 million liquor liability insurance policy.

  "Trouble would be an understatement... you have to carry a million dollars in liquor liability insurance." —Keith Benjamin (04:19)

• Joint and Several Liability: If a restaurant is found just 1% liable in a dram shop case, it can be held 100% financially responsible (06:51)

  “If you are 1% liable in a case, you can be held 100% liable.” —Jonathan Kish (07:01)

• Open Season for Lawsuits: Virtually “open season” for aggressive attorneys targeting restaurants, driving insurance payouts and premiums to unsustainable levels; insurance carriers fleeing the market:

  “Of the 47 carriers… only two left, and one isn’t writing new business.” —Keith Benjamin (11:52)

4. Unsustainable Economics & the Impact (12:30–14:23)

• Exploding Insurance Costs:
  • Jonathan: 70% increase in liquor liability insurance in two years—"starts to get unsustainable" (13:13)
  • Keith: "We're up almost a thousand percent in five years." (13:23)
• "4–5% of gross just goes to insurance." (14:23–14:31)

5. Shifting Liability: The Problem With Personal Responsibility (09:00–10:15)

• Bartenders and owners are held responsible regardless of guest behavior, even if other substances and off-premise consumption are involved.
• "There’s zero liability on the patron." —Keith Benjamin (08:18)
• All agree: “We hate drunk drivers… they’re the common enemy here” (09:33)

6. Pressures on Staff & Hospitality Culture (18:38–21:40)

• Staff Impact: Employees fear serving at-risk patrons; risk and stress elevated, especially with social media backlash for refusals.
• “You cut them off, you’re an asshole… But we’re just trying to keep you safe.” —Jonathan Kish and Keith Benjamin (19:28–21:40)

7. Public Perceptions, Consumer Education, and Hospitality Reality (20:13–22:34)

• "We’ve ‘hospitality-ed’ ourselves into a corner... what more can we do? We have to start communicating to the consumer…" —Eric (21:45)
• Owners call for cultural shift: restoring balance between guest rights, personal responsibility, and business sustainability.

8. Legislative Solutions & Lobbying Efforts (29:34–35:18)

• Formation of Responsible Hospitality Reform Alliance: Group of Charleston operators pooling funds for lobbying ($10,000/month) (29:39–30:04)
• Two Key Bills:
  • House Bill 3497: Would eliminate the “1% = 100%” liability for restaurants, add mandatory server training.
  • Senate Bill 244: Broad tort reform; addresses liability standards, defines intoxication, and sets penalties for non-compliance.
• Lobby Strategy: "We're intentionally not taking outside money... this is an operator-driven effort." —Jonathan Kish (30:01)
• Collaborating on legal language with trial attorneys — seeking clearer, industry-standard liability definitions (44:13–47:04)

9. Legislative Process, Political Dynamics, and the Clock (39:41–48:05)

• Lobbying as “busy as hell” restaurant operators, learning politics on the fly (39:53)
• Bills must pass by May 8, or many restaurants may not survive to next legislative session (53:36)
• "We've gotten a masterclass in it in the last three months." —Jonathan Kish (48:51)

10. Mobilizing the Industry & Community (48:07–53:56)

• Who Needs This Message: SC legislators, restaurant owners, consumers—especially restaurateurs contacting local reps.
• Local politics and voting in primaries are crucial; "These elections now matter more than ever." —Keith Benjamin (48:51)
• Role of Restaurants in Community: The public house, the bar—historically community centers, need to regain role as hubs of grassroots organizing (51:23–52:37)

11. The Ask: How To Help & What’s at Stake (53:36–54:54)

• Contact lawmakers—urge them to support restaurant-saving liability reform NOW (“Either 3497 or 244... need to get to the governor's desk and signed.” —Keith Benjamin, 53:56)
• "If something is not done, thousands of SC bars & restaurants could go out of business." (53:56)

12. What’s Next For the Industry (57:07–61:53)

• Emphasis on forming/joining state and city associations, aggregating voices for greater political impact (58:00–59:29)
• Advice for grassroots coalition-building: Find like-minded operators, keep focus operator-driven, develop tailored messaging for your locality.

13. Final Appeals & Memorable Closing Quotes (62:38–63:05)

• “To the consumer: please do your part. Do not drink and drive. To our fellow operators: let’s do so responsibly. To the legislators: do the right thing and give us a shot. We’re here for everybody, please be there for us.” —Keith Benjamin (62:38)
• "If you have a message that needs to get out, my platform is your platform." —Eric Cacciatore (repeated throughout the episode, e.g., 01:17, 63:05)
• "[It’s] getting harder and harder for independents to do the right thing. It will only continue to get harder unless we start communicating and joining forces…" —Eric Cacciatore (62:24)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Being Under Threat:

  "It’s getting harder and harder for independent restaurant owners to do good work. We are not the beneficiaries of our hard work..." —Eric (00:29)

• On the Legal Injustice:

  "If you are 1% liable in a case, you can be held 100% liable." —Jonathan (07:01)
  "There’s zero liability on the patron." —Keith (08:18)

• On Insurance Crisis:

  "Of the 47 carriers… only two left, and one isn’t writing new business." —Keith (11:52)

• On Cultural Responsibility:

  "We hate drunk drivers... They are the enemy... We’re on the same team [as MADD]." —Keith (09:33)
  "Be a good consumer. Don’t be an asshole." —Jonathan (19:52)

• On the Community Role of Restaurants:

  "We are the backbone... if they [independent restaurants] go away, it’s game fucking over." —Eric (01:05)
  "Public house... it was literally the internet, where everything happened—the news, entertainment, your mail..." —Eric (51:25)

• On Taking Action:

  “Contact your local lawmakers to let them know that you care about South Carolina restaurants and bars and that you need something passed now.” —Keith (54:37)
  “To the legislators: do the right thing and give us a shot. We’re here for everybody, please be there for us.” —Keith (62:38)

Important Timestamps & Segments

• 00:00–04:08 – Eric’s opening PSA, setting the stakes
• 04:08–13:42 – Background on SC dram shop laws and their effects
• 18:38–21:40 – Staff impacts, social media, pressure on hospitality
• 29:34–35:18 – Formation and funding of lobbying efforts; introduction of legislative solutions
• 39:41–48:05 – Challenges and importance of learning the legislative process as operators
• 53:36–54:54 – What must happen by May 8, and urgent message to lawmakers and public
• 62:38–63:05 – Unified closing plea for responsible action from guests, operators, and lawmakers

Call to Action

For South Carolina listeners and industry professionals nationwide:

• Contact your state legislators—demand urgent reform to liquor liability and joint/several laws.
• Educate your staff, patrons, and fellow operators—share the reality underlying hospitality today.
• Foster coalitions, join state/local associations, and ensure independent restaurants have a united voice in legislative processes.
• Be a responsible consumer—don’t drink and drive.
• Recognize and support restaurants as the essential community institutions they are.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about independent restaurants, legislative activism, or the future of American hospitality. Share widely to ensure the message—and good policy—spreads.