ReThinking with Adam Grant: Breaking Leadership Barriers with Hockey Coach Jessica Campbell

Date: March 17, 2026
Host: Adam Grant (with TED)
Guest: Jessica Campbell (Assistant Coach, Seattle Kraken, first full-time female NHL bench coach)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the experiences and philosophy of Jessica Campbell, trailblazing hockey coach and the first full-time female assistant behind the bench in the NHL. Adam Grant and Jessica discuss leadership, breaking barriers, trust-building, coaching philosophy, and the unique pressures—and opportunities—of being "the first." Through reflection and candid anecdotes, Jessica shares her journey from small-town Canadian hockey rinks to the NHL, offering insight on resilience, authenticity, and how difference can be a leadership advantage.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life & "Belonging in the Game"

• Small Town Beginnings: Jessica grew up in the Canadian prairies, the youngest of four, in a hockey family ([03:31]).
• Always 'The Only Girl': No girls' teams—Jessica played on boys' teams, shaped by both challenges and support.
  • “I was the only girl on an all boys team. … I never, ever felt lesser than or not equal to my teammates or that I didn't belong in that room.” — Campbell [04:21]

2. Navigating Gender Dynamics in Hockey

• External Skepticism & Internal Fortitude: Faced allyship and resistance from male teammates and coaches ([05:00]).
• Turning Negativity into Motivation:
  • "If they're threatened by me, then I'm doing something better than them. ... That fueled me to want to do more, be more, and strive for more." — Campbell [06:02]
• Parental Support & Early Mentors: Her mother—who also broke norms—taught her that leadership can look different ([07:48]).
• On Visibility and Trailblazing: Reflected on feeling increased responsibility and pressure as the "first," drawing motivation from carrying the torch for other women ([09:07]).

3. Path to NHL Coaching & Finding Her Edge

• No Blueprint, Only Passion: No set path to her NHL seat—Jessica never sought out "first" status, but focused on impact ([09:51]).
  • “It was always about doing the work and following my passion… If I was excellent at what I did … that would take me exactly where I was meant to go.” — Campbell [09:51]
• External Validation & Belief:
  • Key Moment: Former pro Brent Seabrook told her, “You're going to be in the NHL one day,” sparking deeper self-belief ([10:34]).
  • "He mirrored a belief in me…that I had maybe in a naive way thought about, but never had permission to believe I could do." — Campbell [10:56]
• Innovative, Relationship-Focused Method: Her outsider drills and personal, human connections with players became her differentiators ([12:02]).

4. Overcoming Resistance and Setting Her Own Standards

• Handling Skepticism: Faced significant resistance, sexism, and "awful things said" about her presence at the NHL level ([15:16]).
  • “Instead of…trying to get the job, trying to work for the team that was resistant… I just said, that's okay. Walked away and built my own house and decided to see who would walk in.” — Campbell [16:10]

5. Jessica's Leadership & Coaching Philosophy

• Three Guiding Principles—'Listen, Lift, Love' ([16:26]):
  • Listen: Build genuine, human relationships—care about the person, not just the player.
  • Lift: Empower and guide players to reach their potential.
  • Love: Show deep care—sometimes tough love sets high standards and safety to strive.
  • “An empowered person goes through walls when they feel seen and valued.” — Campbell [17:46]
• Balancing Styles: Reframes “softness” as a strategic, intentional strength—not a gendered weakness ([18:32], [19:04]).
  • “Having well balanced teams with different skill sets, different perspectives, regardless of gender, actually make for a more dangerous coaching staff.” — Campbell [19:20]
• Tough Love & Positive Reframing:
  • Instead of harsh criticism, Jessica matches feedback to past success or admired role models, always focusing on behavior and improvement ([21:14], [22:50]).
  • “It’s about, I think, reframing and rephrasing it. ... We’re in the business of psychology, of working through people and how to get them to better serve themselves.” — Campbell [21:55]

6. Feedback, Individual vs. Team Coaching

• Adam’s Research Integration: Key to effective feedback is focusing on task behaviors, not personal traits ([30:47]):
  • “Feedback gets less effective as it focuses on the person and more effective as it focuses on the task and behavior.” — Grant [30:47]
• Coaching Teams: Group accountability comes from clear, reinforced standards—not just rules—and celebrating examples of "this is team" ([24:32]).

7. Navigating Stereotypes and Building Trust

• Double Standards Still Exist ([33:21]):
  • Women are often required to “establish their warmth and care” before being accepted as tough leaders, an extra hurdle compared to men ([33:30]).
  • “We probably still live in a world where women have to do more to establish their warmth...You have to earn the right to say no, which is ridiculous.” — Grant [33:51]
• Jessica’s Experience: Silence and disappointment sometimes speak louder than raised voices with her players, subverting expectations ([35:27]).

8. The Psychological Cost of Breaking Barriers

• "The weight of being first" ([36:30]):
  • Jessica acknowledges the heavy responsibility and pressure, aiming to carry it with grace.
  • Research suggests that scrutiny is highest at lower levels of leadership; at the very top, competence is recognized, but the burden remains ([36:52]-[38:46]).
  • “Some of my most wholesome, positive experiences have been with the pros and some of my worst experiences have been ... at smaller levels with junior players…” — Campbell [37:42]

9. The Lightning Round: Rapid-Fire Insights

• Worst Coaching Advice ([27:43]):
  • “Just be grateful to be in the NHL. That one really sucks… Just being grateful, you know? No. Demand more, be more, want more, strive for more.” — Campbell [27:46]
  • Quote supported by Grant’s research that gratitude alone is not a performance motivator ([28:36]).
• Best Coaching Advice:
  • “You cannot judge a player and love them at the same time.” — Campbell [29:00]
• What She’s Rethought Lately:
  • "When the world or industry you work in tells you to try to fit in, it's crap." — Campbell [29:32]

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Breaking Barriers:
  “I never, ever dreamt of being the first in a space where I’ve always been part of this game. … Until I was standing behind an NHL bench in a space no woman had held before.” – Jessica Campbell [01:39]

• On Difference as Strength:
  “When you’re often in a room… where no one looks like you, that difference is an edge. … It is value added to a team.” – Campbell [02:45]

• On Handling Resistance:
  “I heard no more often than not and there was a lot of closed doors and awful things said... But I just said, that’s okay. Walked away and built my own house and decided to see who would walk in.” – Campbell [15:16-16:10]

• On Coaching Philosophy:
  “Listen, lift, and love. … And without love, I don’t think coaching is anything, to be honest. Like, that’s the root of why we show up for others.” – Campbell [16:26-17:46]

• On Feedback:
  “Feedback gets less effective as it focuses on the person and more effective as it focuses on the task and behavior.” – Adam Grant [30:47]

• On Being the First:
  “There’s all this weird, interesting things of doing things for the first time…what’s the psychological cost to that? Because it feels heavy. … I do carry a lot of that.” – Campbell [36:30]

• On Refusing to Conform:
  “When the world or industry you work in tells you to try to fit in, it’s crap. Don’t listen to it…” – Campbell [29:32]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:39] – Jessica on realizing she’s a trailblazer
• [03:31] – Growing up as the only girl in boys’ hockey
• [05:26] – Navigating allyship and skepticism among boys and coaches
• [09:07] – Identifying as a torchbearer for other women
• [09:51] – Brent Seabrook’s pivotal encouragement
• [12:02] – Her unique, innovative coaching style
• [15:16] – Meeting skepticism and "building her own house"
• [16:26] – Jessica’s “Listen, Lift, Love” philosophy
• [18:32] – Adam and Jessica discuss battling gender stereotypes in leadership
• [21:14] – Jessica's approach to tough love and corrective feedback
• [24:32] – Shaping team behaviors and standards of excellence
• [30:47] – Adam’s take on the research about feedback effectiveness
• [33:21] – The reality of earning trust as a woman in leadership
• [36:30] – Discussing the psychological cost of “going first”
• [37:42] – Pros vs. juniors: where resistance is highest
• [27:43] – Lightning round: worst and best coaching advice
• [29:32] – Importance of authenticity over conformity

Conclusion

Jessica Campbell's candid reflections reveal the complexities of breaking new ground in a male-dominated sport, the resilience required to persist in the face of resistance, and the unique strengths that come from leading authentically. Her approach—rooted in deep care, innovative thinking, and psychological acumen—offers both inspiration and practical wisdom for leaders in any field who aspire to turn differences into superpowers and foster inclusive, high-performing teams.