David Beckham (3:26)

I did.

Adam Grant (3:27)

Why? I came so early. I was 20 minutes early.

David Beckham (3:30)

I'm not always just on time before that. My wife kind of picks me at it all the time. In all honesty. She's always saying we're going to be too early, we're going to be too early. But I got bought up by parents that always made sure that we were on time. I got bought up when I was in Manchester United by an incredible coach that always made sure that we're not just on time, but 20 minutes before time. So I'm sorry I got here before you, but not sorry.

Adam Grant (3:59)

I can't believe it because I am always late and I made sure to not be late this morning and I still couldn't get here.

David Beckham (4:06)

Well, you definitely wasn't late. I was just really early. So I apologize.

Adam Grant (4:10)

I'm rejecting your apology. What happens if you're on time or late? Does it bother you?

David Beckham (4:17)

I am very aggravated if I'm late. It upsets me. I worry about what people think about me if I turn up late. So that's why I'm always very early.

Adam Grant (4:26)

Aren't you past being judged now? At what point in your career do

David Beckham (4:30)

you stop caring about being judged? I just hate being late. It's one of my pet peeves that I just really don't like. So I'm always on time for everything. Whether it's Sunday lunches, whether it's a drink with friends, whether it's school runs. I'm always on time.

Adam Grant (4:45)

We are not going to get along then. So, David, I want to talk about sport. We have the World cup on the horizon and I think it's. It's something that really has the potential to bring the world together in our divided times. Can you talk to me a little bit about the power of sport in general and football in particular in 2026?

David Beckham (5:04)

I think sport has always had the power to unite, you know, people, children, communities, villages, you know, and that's what. That's what sport does. Not just soccer, football. That's what sport does in general. So I think that this is a real opportunity. You know, we see it every four years, every time a World cup comes around. You know, cities change, countries change, people change. People have the opportunity to go and have fun. They're passionate about it. And I think that this is a real opportunity, again for sport to prove that you.

Adam Grant (5:36)

I hope so. I was surprised going into the Paris Olympics. I read a bunch of research showing that we think the Olympics are going to bring people together, and they actually tend to divide countries. People love their own nation more, but they also start to hate their rival nations a little bit more. That seems like a lost opportunity. What's your take on how to prevent that from happening?

David Beckham (5:56)

Look, I think there's always going to be rivalry in sport. I think it divides people, but in a way that brings people together. You know, I think that you have a stadium full of 80,000 fans. 40,000 are for one country, 40,000 for the other country. Yes, there will be rivalry because one set of fans want their team to win and the other set of fans want their team to win. So there's always going to be that rivalry. I think it's a good thing. You know, we always talk about moments of people disagreeing, and this is a moment where fans disagree, but then they're coming together in a stadium where they're celebrating. You know, I saw this in the last World cup, fans coming together. And I think that that's such an important part of sport, and that's why I always talk about sport being a. Brings a real unity. And soccer is that moment. You know, soccer is. It's going to be viewed by almost 4 1/2, 5 billion people. And, you know, when you talk about the magnitude of that, you know, and what that does to communities and what that does to people, you know, that's the biggest thing that people want these days.

Adam Grant (7:01)

Did you just call football soccer?

David Beckham (7:03)

I think I might have said it a couple of times.

Adam Grant (7:05)

Is that a verbal tic? What's happening here?

David Beckham (7:08)

You know what? It was always football to me until I moved to America. And then I had to adjust. I had to adjust, but I still obviously know that it is football.

Adam Grant (7:18)

So what role did fans play in Your motivation throughout your career, they played

David Beckham (7:22)

a big motivation, you know, to have fans in the stadium. It's what we realized through lockdown. You know, when you had two teams playing against each other with an empty stadium, you know, it felt soulless. You know, you have all different fans. I think more so in America than anywhere in the world. You know, when I moved to America and played in LA in 2007, I noticed that there was young kids, you know, people that were 20 years old, people that were 40 years old, people that were 80 years old, you know, all turning up as a family to go and watch their team play. For my motivation, you know, I miss the entertainment side. I miss walking out onto that pitch and performing, and people turn around to me all the time and say, you know, what do you miss about the game? I miss everything about.

Adam Grant (8:11)

Almost sounds like you missed the pressure.

David Beckham (8:13)

I love the pressure. You know, I. I went through a. A stage where in 1998, where I'd been sent off and I was kind of getting a little bit of abuse from fans, from media, from people. But in all honesty, the thing that I knew what to do best is to put my head down, to work as hard as I can, and then results would come. And thankfully they did.

Adam Grant (8:36)

There's a big nature nurture debate when it comes to handling performance pressures. I think a lot of people believe you're just born with that ability or not. I'm thinking, though, there's some classic research in psychology showing that how you respond to pressure depends on your skill level, where basically what happens is when you're under stress, that increases the probability of your dominant instinctive response. And if you're not good at the task or the game, then your dominant response is to screw up. But if you're an expert or if you're highly practiced, your dominant response, the autopilot, is actually excellent.

David Beckham (9:05)

Okay.

Adam Grant (9:06)

And so I think what that, what that research at least would suggest is that over time you get better at handling pressure as your skill level improves. Agree or disagree?

David Beckham (9:17)

I don't know. I was quite young when I first went through all of this. You know, I was 21 years old, so that's pretty young. I never really questioned that I was good enough. But obviously doubt come into your mind at times and you wonder if you can get through certain situations with the pressure that was mounting on me at the time. So, you know, I relied on my wife, my family, my parents, my friends, and that's really my teammates. That's what I relied on to get me through the moments where I was doubting myself. So I agree, but also disagree because I'd never been through anything like that before.

Adam Grant (9:51)

What was the moment of peak doubt? When did you feel it most intensely?

David Beckham (9:55)

I think I had that intense feeling for probably four years.

Business/Product Advertiser (9:59)

Four years?

David Beckham (10:00)

Yeah.

Adam Grant (10:01)

And how old were you?

David Beckham (10:03)

21.

Adam Grant (10:03)

Jeez.

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David Beckham (10:39)

Weather, traffic.

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Adam Grant (11:48)

So you alluded to. I think the red card in 1998 World cup loss set the scene a little bit for us on that. What happened? What did it feel like? How did you deal with it?

David Beckham (11:58)

Okay, I went into the World cup in 1998 and I played every game on the lead up to the World Cup. I go into the World cup, the coach at the time didn't think that my head space was right. So he dropped me for the first game, for the second game and we won the first game. We were losing the second game and then the third game was against Colombia, which was actually on my mum's birthday. And I remember going into this game really happy because, you know, I was backing the team. I scored a goal. My first goal for England in a World cup was on my mum's birthday. I had had a really good game. We won the game. We then progressed onto the next stage. So the next game was against Argentina. Obviously, we talked about rivals earlier. There's not many bigger rivals than England. Argentina, for many reasons. But that moment I go into the game, we were in good form. We were winning 1 0. And then Argentina got a goal back. And towards the end of the first half, there was a player called Diego Simeone. And he was always one of these players that kind of, you know, he was one of those players on the field that kind of aggravated, you know, the situations. So he was that player. And he came right into the back of me, fell on top of me, and then he kind of brushed my head like that. And I felt that and I kind of just flicked my leg up kind of and kicked him. Should never have done it. It was a mistake. It was one of the mistakes where I wish that I'd never done it. But I look back and I think everything happens for a reason. But that was what happened. So I got the red card. And then after that I got probably three or four years of abuse. But that fourth year, I then became England captain, which I could never have dreamed of captain in my country. My dream was always to play for my country. But I never saw myself as a leader, you know, at that time. But then I got that arm band and I had to turn into a leader overnight.

Adam Grant (14:00)

I want to talk about that too, before we go there. I think what you're describing is a basic emotion regulation challenge. Right. Like that moment, you're probably not using your best higher level reasoning.

David Beckham (14:12)

So I suppose, you know, the red mist, they called it the red mist. They always said that I had red mist. And the red mist came. And unfortunately, it was on the biggest stage that you can have as a footballer. But unfortunately, or fortunately, it shaped me as a player and as a person.

Adam Grant (14:31)

When I teach leaders and students to manage that red mist, I actually, I use football as an example. I like the Zidane headbutt moment.

David Beckham (14:38)

Yeah.

Adam Grant (14:38)

Because it's just so extreme.

David Beckham (14:40)

Yeah.

Adam Grant (14:40)

But my typical advice there is to recognize that you have some emotional triggers, some buttons that can easily get pushed, know what those are, and then build a script for what you're going to do when somebody pushes that button. And I'm curious about whether you did anything along those lines?

David Beckham (14:56)

No, not at all. Obviously not. But at that moment in time, I didn't have time for that. You know, I had been knocked over. My frustration came out straight away, and like I said, do I wish it had never happened? Absolutely. But it happened for a reason. It happened to shape me as a person, to shape my whole career. In all honesty, that seems like one

Adam Grant (15:17)

of the few moments on a pitch that you don't train for. And I've often wondered if. Would you stimulate those kinds of moments in practice to actually give it?

David Beckham (15:25)

Not at all. Absolutely not. No. Never? Never.

Adam Grant (15:29)

You just trusted yourself to act differently next time?

David Beckham (15:31)

Absolutely. And did I probably act in a way that I shouldn't have acted a few years after that? Probably. Probably. Because I was a passionate player. I was a passionate player on the field, and when things upset me, it was very clear that they upset me. But I learned to a lot of the things over the years because I had to, you know, I had to become a different person. I had to become a different player. I had to be in control, as much as I can be, of certain situations where I was put in. Because every time that I stepped out onto a field, you know, 98% of the stadium was booing me because they were either England fans or rival fans. That was what it was like then. People felt that I'd let my country down. People felt that I'd let my family down. And in a way, I kind of had because of my reactions. But I always think it's not about what actually happens in that moment, it's about how you react after and how you handle those moments.

Adam Grant (16:29)

I'm reminded of a scene in Love, actually, where I get mentioned in love. You do, in a particular way. Hugh Grant is describing what makes England a great country, and he names your left foot and your right foot.

David Beckham (16:39)

And when I was watching that movie, I actually didn't even know that I was in it. So that was. That's a very nice thing.

Adam Grant (16:45)

Was that a marker of shifting perception of. In that moment or in that time period, people starting to come around and support you more?

David Beckham (16:55)

No, I think that the. The marker of having more support and people coming around at the time was three years after that, I scored a goal against Greece. I'll set the scene again. So there was a game against Greece at Old Trafford where Manchester United played. That was my team that I played for at the time. And we went into this game and we only needed to draw the game. So a draw was perfectly okay. The sun was shining. It was the Perfect day. We go into this game and we play terrible, but I was playing really well. It was one of the. One of the best games that I had. And I never say this about myself as a player. It's probably one of the best games that I've played in football. And we go one nil down. We then get a goal back, which was one of my assists to Teddy Sheringham. They greased, then go up the other end and they score a goal. There's three minutes left in the game. I've taken about eight free kicks so far, seven free kicks so far, and all missed. And then I get one more free kick at the end of the game with three minutes to go, and I score. And that goal took England through to the World cup finals. And that was the moment where everything changed for me. That was the moment where I think people. I mean, I always get emotional talking about it, because it's the moment where I realized people forgave me. You know, my mum and dad were sat in the director's box at Old Trafford and they said they've never seen a reaction from people. After I scored that goal, people were crying. You know, young kids, grandmas, grandpas, they were crying. They just burst out crying because the raw emotion. And that's what I'm saying about football as a game, you know, it unites people like no other sport, in my opinion.

Adam Grant (18:47)

So did you feel in the years before that like you had to earn a whole nation's forgiveness?

Podcast Sponsor Announcer (18:52)

Yes.

Adam Grant (18:53)

Wow.

David Beckham (18:54)

Yes.

Adam Grant (18:55)

And how did you deal with that pressure? Because that's a different kind of weight to carry.

David Beckham (19:00)

I. I actually don't know. I don't know how I dealt with it. I just did what I know best, which is to work hard and put my head down and, and. And stay. And stay quiet. You know, Sir Alex Ferguson, who was my coach at the time when I got sent off in the World cup for. He was the Manchester United coach and he was the first to call me the next morning. And he said, david's son, how are you? And I said, not great, boss. And he said, don't worry, go away for a couple of weeks, rest with your family, come back and we'll be. Will support you. And really, without Sir Alex Ferguson, without my teammates, without the support of Manchester United fans. I remember every game that I played that whole season, when we played at home and we played at Old Trafford, every time I went over to take a corner kick, the whole side of the stand stood up. And that is the reason why I got through that. Difficult time.

Adam Grant (19:59)

Ferguson is regarded as one of the greatest coaches ever. Beyond the importance of hard work and just the basic support that he gave you, what was your greatest lesson from him?

David Beckham (20:08)

It's hard to step away and not, not mention the hard work, because that what is what he was all about. Discipline, mentality, respect. And he gave us all of those things. All of those things. And he wasn't preparing us as football players, he was preparing us for life. It didn't matter who you were, it didn't matter what you'd achieved, didn't matter where you come from. Everyone was treated the same, and you gained respect only by working hard. I was playing in an era where, you know, therapy wasn't really a thing. I'm not saying it was frowned upon to kind of discuss it, but I grew up, you know, in a household where if I did have a disappointment, my dad would just say, okay, go out there and do it again until I got it right. And I'm all for that. I'm all for people discussing their problems and talking about their problems and trying to find a solution. But for me personally, my way was to put my head down and work harder.

Adam Grant (21:07)

Are you saying that if you were 21 today, you would be in therapy?

David Beckham (21:13)

Probably not. Probably not. I. I find it hard to believe that I would go into therapy through something like this with the upbringing that I had, because there was a stealiness that my dad installed into me without even knowing that he was protecting me for the future, which he probably didn't know at the time. But as a father, you know, he supported me, but he was tough on me, and that's what made me.

Adam Grant (21:37)

What was the most helpful thing a family member said to you during those four years of self doubt?

David Beckham (21:42)

You know what someone said to me once? The hardest thing is to say nothing. And even though I was going through what I was going through, it would have been very easy to come out fighting. It would have been very easy to come out and say something and add to the speculation or add to the conversation. But the best thing I did was I went silent. I went silent and I worked harder, and that was the right thing to do.

Adam Grant (22:10)

What was your motivation to get through that doubt? What were you hoping to achieve?

David Beckham (22:14)

I always want to win, and that was always on the field. I wanted to win. I wanted to show people. I wanted to, you know, I suppose the critics that were turning around and saying that I shouldn't be playing in the Premier League anymore, I shouldn't be playing in England, maybe I'm going to go and play somewhere else abroad. My motivation was to kind of prove everyone wrong, to prove everyone that I was still the player that wanted to play for my country, that wanted to play for Manchester United, that wanted to play in England. That was my motivation also. I, you know, I'm part of a sport where it's a team sport. So even though I was going through difficult times, I still had to perform. I still had to go out on that pitch with all the things that were being said about me, you know, in the stands, on the media, on the tv, on the radio, I still had to go out and perform. You know, we went on to achieve things that the first time to win a treble, you know, we won the Champions League, we won the FA cup, and we won the Premier League. We did that, funnily enough, the year after, I went through that time. So in 1998, I got the red card. In 1998, 99 season, we did the treble, and it was one of my best seasons as a footballer.

Adam Grant (23:28)

You just anticipated my next four questions.

David Beckham (23:30)

Sorry.

Adam Grant (23:31)

No, it's good. What was a bigger motivator for you? Loving to win or hating to lose?

David Beckham (23:36)

Oh, my goodness. I really don't like to lose. I really don't like to lose. But it happens. You know, I talk to kids about it all the time. You know, when I'm sat down and kids turn around to me and say, you've won all of these games. What is it like when you lose a game? It's. It's one of the worst feelings in the world for me. You know, it. It's depressing. You wake up the next morning and you have this feeling in your stomach when you've lost a game. It doesn't matter what level I'm playing at, you know, whether I'm playing in a cup game, a friendly game, a World cup game. If I win a game, I still feel the same. If I lose a game, I still feel the same.

Adam Grant (24:13)

Is that true when you're playing other sports for fun?

David Beckham (24:15)

Yes.

Adam Grant (24:16)

If you and I were to play

David Beckham (24:17)

ping pong, for example, I am not good at losing ping pong. I am not good at losing basketball. I am not good at losing a game of checkers.

Adam Grant (24:27)

Do you ever throw the board when you lose?

David Beckham (24:29)

Oh, no. I'm not an aggressive person when I lose. I'm probably a sad person when I lose.

Adam Grant (24:35)

Okay, so you just get depressed.

David Beckham (24:36)

I get depressed.

Adam Grant (24:37)

All right. So you mentioned earlier that you didn't see yourself as a leader for a long time. When did that shift and why it

David Beckham (24:43)

shifted when I got given the armband.

Adam Grant (24:47)

You didn't have any sense of yourself as a leader before that?

David Beckham (24:50)

No.

Adam Grant (24:51)

Why not?

David Beckham (24:53)

Because I was brought up in an era where captains, they shouted at players, they led with not aggression, but they led by vocalizing in that way. And I was never that person. I'm a very quiet person. I'm quite shy, and I'm not very good at shouting at people. I really not. So to be given the captain's armband at that time, again, it was a decision that was quite criticized. You know, am I ready to be captain of my country? But with that, you know, your responsibilities change. You know, you have to become a leader. And I was a different leader. My way of leading was to work harder than anyone else, to turn up before everyone else, to leave after everyone else. And I always believed that that was my strongest way of leading. So I kind of grew into that moment. And I'm very proud that I got the opportunity to captain my country for six years.

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Podcast Sponsor Announcer (27:17)

is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat concierge and it's simplifying car shopping using self reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks. It doesn't just help buyers find a car they love, it helps schedule a test drive, get pre approved for financing and estimate trade in value. Advanced, intuitive and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One.

Adam Grant (27:50)

All right, you ready for a lightning round?

David Beckham (27:52)

Oh, my goodness.

Adam Grant (27:52)

Okay, we have some quick fire questions.

David Beckham (27:55)

Oh, my goodness.

Adam Grant (27:56)

First one is, it's very.

David Beckham (27:58)

It's like 10:30. Right. So it's quite early for quick fires.

Adam Grant (28:01)

How many hours have you been awake now?

David Beckham (28:03)

Quite a few.

Adam Grant (28:04)

Okay. I think you can handle it. You love the pressure.

David Beckham (28:06)

We'll see, we'll see.

Adam Grant (28:07)

We'll find out.

David Beckham (28:08)

See how much I like pressure.

Adam Grant (28:10)

Okay. Who do you think is the most underrated footballer?

David Beckham (28:12)

Oh, my goodness. Do you know Gary Neville? Gary Neville was my best man at my wedding. He was the player that played in the position behind me from when we were 15 years old till I was 27 years old. But Gary was one of these players that he always talks about it him not having as much talent as many other players. I disagree. I think he had great talent, but he believes that he wasn't as talented so he had to work even harder. So I'd have to say, Gary Neville,

Adam Grant (28:41)

you're hosting a dinner party with anyone alive or dead. Who are you inviting?

David Beckham (28:45)

Jack Nicholson.

Adam Grant (28:46)

What's the worst advice you've ever gotten?

David Beckham (28:48)

Try this. It tastes really good.

Adam Grant (28:51)

Was there a dish in particular?

David Beckham (28:53)

Well, I'm not a parsnips fan, funnily enough. And I grow parsnips in my garden and I'm not a parsnip fan. And when I was very young, my mum was like, try this, it's really good. And it really wasn't.

Adam Grant (29:06)

We know not to put on your lunch menu.

Podcast Sponsor Announcer (29:08)

Yeah.

David Beckham (29:08)

They might put a bit of honey on them so it tastes a lot better.

Adam Grant (29:10)

All right, what's something you've changed your mind about recently?

David Beckham (29:13)

I'm going to say hairstyle because I've changed my mind a lot over the years about my hairstyles. And recently I thought, why don't I go back to that hairstyle? And then all of a sudden I went back to it. I was like, that was a really bad idea. So, yeah, hairstyle.

Adam Grant (29:27)

Some of us don't have the luxury of making that choice.

David Beckham (29:30)

Well, I'm sorry About that.

Adam Grant (29:31)

What's the question you have for me as a psychologist?

David Beckham (29:34)

Do you enjoy what you do?

Adam Grant (29:36)

I love what I do. I think I have the best job on Earth.

David Beckham (29:38)

Is it always what you wanted to do? No.

Adam Grant (29:40)

No. I didn't even know this was a career. What's organizational psychology?

David Beckham (29:43)

Yeah. And if you was to change your job, what would you go into?

Adam Grant (29:47)

Oh, I think it would be fun to write sci fi. Or I'd actually love to try coaching a sports team.

David Beckham (29:54)

Favorite Sci Fi movie.

Adam Grant (29:55)

Favorite sci fi.

David Beckham (29:56)

We've changed positions. Yeah.

Adam Grant (29:58)

Who's in charge here? Favorite sci fi movie? Interstellar. The Martian. There's so many, it's hard to choose. Okay, I have to ask you. The Netflix doc, For me, the most memorable moment was, and I'm sure you've been asked about this a lot, but I would love to hear the narrative behind it. Your wife is being asked about her upbringing, and she starts to talk about how you were both raised blue collar and you're not in the scene.

David Beckham (30:26)

Yeah.

Adam Grant (30:27)

And you poke your head in.

David Beckham (30:28)

Yeah.

Adam Grant (30:28)

And what did you say and why?

David Beckham (30:30)

Well, you know, if the funny thing about that was I wasn't meant to be at the house at the time. I was in the kitchen making a coffee. I was just about to leave the house, and I had a set of headphones on listening to her, and soon as I heard her start saying, you know, we're both from working class backgrounds, I thought, no, no, no, no. This is my opportunity. So I poked my head in and I was like, be honest. Be honest. You got driven to school in a Rolls Royce. That is not a working class background.

Adam Grant (31:03)

I thought in some ways that was the most revealing moment in terms of understanding your psyche, because we got to see the quiet determination. And I thought, this is David's version of yelling.

David Beckham (31:13)

Yeah, that is. That really is my version of yelling. That's as loud as it gets.

Adam Grant (31:17)

And why was it so important to you to set the record straight on that?

David Beckham (31:21)

Because I want people to know that I'm the one from the working class background, not my wife who got driven to school in a Rolls Royce. No. All joking aside, this is not about honesty.

Adam Grant (31:30)

It was a competition.

David Beckham (31:31)

Absolutely. Everything's a competition. Even at home, even with my wife, even making a coffee, Everything's a competition.

Adam Grant (31:38)

Okay, so who won the competition in our conversation today?

David Beckham (31:41)

Well, I think you did, because all the questions were great. I think I answered pretty well.

Adam Grant (31:45)

So, David Beckham, thank you for joining Rethinking in Oner Davos.

David Beckham (31:48)

You're welcome. Thank you.

Adam Grant (31:53)

Rethinking is hosted by me, Adam Grant. The show is produced by Ted with Cosmic Standard. Our producer is Jessica Glaser. Our editor is Alejandra Salazar, our engineer is Asia Pilar Simpson, our technical director is Jacob Winick, and our fact checker is Paul Durbin. Our team includes Eliza Smith, Roxanne Hylash, Ban Chang, Julia Dickerson, Tansika Sung Manivong and Whitney Pennington Rogers. Original music by Hans Dale sue and Alison Layton Brown.

David Beckham (32:23)

I love Jack Nicholson. When I first moved to la, I was in Hollywood. I was going to watch the Lakers play and I knew Jack always went to the Lakers games and I thought, I wonder if I get to meet him at any point. So I'm waiting for the game to start. I think, okay, I just need to go to the toilet. So I'm waiting at the toilet and then all of a sudden the door opens and Jack Nicholson walks out and he goes, oh, hi David. And I'm like, oh my God, Jack knows who I am.

Paige Desorbo (32:54)

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Business/Product Advertiser (33:48)

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David Beckham (35:19)

See lowe's.com for details.

Business/Product Advertiser (35:20)

Mulch offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii.