Podcast Summary: ReThinking with Adam Grant

Episode: "How to Design Teams That Don’t Suck"

Date: October 8, 2024
Host: Adam Grant (Organizational psychologist, TED)
Featured Voices:

• Mike Eruzioni (Captain, 1980 US Olympic Men’s Hockey Team)
• John Harrington (US Hockey Team, 1980)
• Richard Hackman (Team science pioneer, via archival audio)
• Anita Woolley (Carnegie Mellon, team effectiveness expert)
• Dom Price (Atlassian work futurist)

Main Theme & Purpose

Adam Grant explores why most teams underperform and how to turn groups into high-functioning, collaborative units. Using the legendary 1980 “Miracle on Ice” US Olympic hockey team as a case study and drawing on decades of team science, Grant uncovers counterintuitive insights into what actually makes teams excel – and how anyone can apply these lessons at work and beyond.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The “Miracle on Ice” as a Blueprint for Teams

(01:15 – 04:00, 08:14 – 10:00)

• The 1980 US Men’s Hockey Team, a group of amateurs, defeated the Soviet Union’s dominant team.
• What most people don’t know: it wasn’t just heart or “miracles” – team design principles were at play.
• Quote:
  • Mike Eruzioni: “We had individual parts and we had players that played different ways in different systems and came from different areas of the country. But over that course of the year, we grew together as a team and...somehow could make it greater than we could do individually.” (21:09)

2. Why Most Teams “Suck”

(04:45 – 06:24, 07:08 – 08:14)

• Richard Hackman’s research showed that team design trumps forced bonding or team building exercises.
• Trust and collaboration arise from well-structured, well-led teams—not the other way around.
• Quote:
  • Hackman: “Trust emerges from a team that is operating well. It doesn’t work the other way around.” (06:24)

3. Essential Team Design Conditions

(07:21 – 08:14, 15:05 – 16:28)

• Who: Stable membership and shared history (not just experts or high performers).
• What: A compelling goal drives shared purpose.
• How: Unique, meaningful roles for each member.
• Quote:
  • Adam Grant: “Team design is more important than team dynamics.” (07:21)

4. The Overlooked Power of Shared Experience

(09:14 – 11:44)

• Research: Teams succeed not with the most experienced individuals, but with members who have worked together before and built shared routines.
• The US team: Many players had played together—either on college teams (esp. under coach Herb Brooks) or grew up playing the same local hockey style.
• Analogy: Flight crews, cardiac surgery teams, NBA teams—all benefit from shared experience.
• Quote:
  • Hackman: “There is really a liability to newness.” (09:49)

5. Mission Cohesion > Social Cohesion

(15:05 – 17:08)

• The most effective teams bond around a mission—not necessarily around liking each other.
• Individual egos must yield to shared mission—a point driven home by Coach Brooks (“play for the name on the front, not the back”).
• Quote:
  • Mike Eruzioni: “...what's on the front of your jersey, the USA, is more important than what's on the back.” (15:45)
  • Adam Grant: “Put your mission above your ego.” (16:05)

6. Creating Shared Responsibility

(17:08 – 19:44)

• Coach Brooks deliberately made himself the “common enemy” to unite the team and put them through difficult shared challenges (e.g., “Herbies” skating drill after poor performance).
• Overcoming adversity together forged group resilience, mental toughness, and unity.
• Application: Leaders can create team identity and shared accountability by posing collective challenges and reinforcing the impact of everyone’s contribution.
• Quote:
  • John Harrington: “It was always us against him. He started out from the beginning when he said, ‘I’ll be your coach, but I won’t be your friend.’” (16:38)

7. Launching Teams: Team Charters and Pre-Mortems

(24:34 – 28:23)

• Research with Anita Woolley: A successful “launch” is critical.
• Teams that do a brief collaborative planning exercise—clarifying goals, roles, and routines—outperform even expert teams who skip this step.
• The “Team Charter” is a manual for alignment.
• “Pre-mortem” discussion: Imagine failing and analyze causes before work starts. This prevents pitfalls and overconfidence.
• Quote:
  • Anita Woolley: “It’s not really magic. It’s kind of pretty basic, but it’s pretty powerful.” (26:36)

8. When and How to Intervene

(28:48 – 31:05)

• Team performance isn’t just results—it’s also about learning, well-being, and future viability.
• Interventions should address system-level barriers (norms, unutilized skills) as much as individual performance, often via group coaching.

9. Real-World Example: Atlassian Team Intervention

(31:30 – 36:25)

• Atlassian’s marketing team used a “health monitor” to diagnose coordination issues.
• A facilitated team conversation established clear norms for decision-making and communication (balancing informal and documented channels).
• Notable process: Team-led solutions, not top-down mandates.
• Quote:
  • Dom Price: “If you do it individually, what tends to happen is the leader decides the communication channel...It’s very top down...It’s a team activity. The team turns up to these meetings. The team is in these channels communicating. So we’re always solving for the team.” (35:12)

10. The “Magic” is in the Reflection and Adaptation

(36:25 – 37:33)

• Team coaching and reflection is most effective at “inflection points” (especially the midpoint of group work).
• Teams rarely change practices without deliberate prompting—reflection surfaces hidden tensions and opportunities for adaptation.

11. Final Wisdom: Lasting Impact of Great Teams

(38:07 – 38:48)

• Great teams grow together, perform better over time, and enrich the lives of their members.
• The true purpose of team design is deeper than immediate results—it’s about fostering meaningful shared experiences.
• Quote:
  • Richard Hackman: “The greatest teams...are ones that get better over time and provide a setting in which individual members can continue to learn and grow.” (38:07)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Trust emerges from a team that is operating well. It doesn’t work the other way around.” – Richard Hackman (06:24)
• “Team design is more important than team dynamics.” – Adam Grant (07:21)
• “There is really a liability to newness.” – Richard Hackman (09:49)
• “...what's on the front of your jersey...is more important than what's on the back.” – Mike Eruzioni (15:45)
• “Put your mission above your ego.” – Adam Grant (16:05)
• “It’s not really magic. It’s kind of pretty basic, but it’s pretty powerful.” – Anita Woolley (26:36)
• “The greatest teams of any kind are the ones that get better over time and that provide a setting in which individual members can continue to learn and grow.” – Richard Hackman (38:07)

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:15] – Opening: The 1980 Miracle on Ice story and underdog mindset
• [04:45] – Richard Hackman on why groups fail
• [08:14] – Key team design principles explained
• [09:42] – Importance of shared experience
• [15:05] – Mission cohesion and shared responsibility
• [17:11] – “Herbies” and adversity’s team-building power
• [24:34] – Launching teams: Charters and pre-mortems
• [31:30] – Atlassian’s team intervention in practice
• [36:25] – Team reflection and adaptation
• [38:07] – Final wisdom on the purpose of great teams

Takeaways for Listeners

• Don’t default to icebreakers or forced fun; design your team for shared experience and responsibility.
• Prioritize stability, meaningful roles, and collective mission over simply assembling star performers.
• Intervene at the system level and use rituals like team charters and pre-mortems to align early and often.
• Recognize and celebrate the journey: Great teams aren’t just about performance—they foster learning, connection, and growth.

This episode is a must-listen for managers, team members, and anyone who wants to make work less painful and more rewarding. The Miracle on Ice wasn’t a miracle—it was the result of intentional, evidence-based team design.