Igniting curiosity with Sean The Science Kid

Summary

ReThinking with Adam Grant

Episode: Igniting Curiosity with Sean The Science Kid

Date: September 16, 2025
Host: Adam Grant
Guest: Sean the Science Kid, with his mother Eunice Adachobe

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Overview

In this episode, Adam Grant is joined by Sean the Science Kid—a 10-year-old internet science educator—and his mother, Eunice Adachobe, to explore what it means to nurture curiosity, foster science literacy, and remain humble amid extraordinary giftedness. Adam dives into Sean’s early development, what drives his love of science, his unique perspective on learning, and the vital role Eunice plays as his mother and guide.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Spark of Scientific Curiosity

• Sean’s Early Fascination: Sean shares that his curiosity wasn’t sparked by a “turning point” but rather through a gradual “diffusion gradient” (04:46), likening his journey to how molecules move through a membrane.
  • Quote: “It was more of a diffusion gradient ... my molecules, out of curiosity, started to diffuse through the semi permeable membrane ... I ended up on the science side.” – Sean (03:54)
• First ‘Wow’ Science Fact:
  • Sean’s early fascination came from learning that “a fist-sized organ made of pure muscle can pump blood throughout your body and make it do one full circle in a singular minute.” (03:27)

2. Giftedness and Family Support

• Unusual Early Reading: Eunice discovered Sean could read at nine months, narrating how he identified store and color names before age one. (06:03–07:32)
• Parenting Choices: After years trying to conceive, Sean's parents recognized his unique abilities early and Eunice quit her job to nurture his development.
  • Quote: “After four miscarriages ... so he was already special to us ... at three, he was second grade level.” – Eunice (07:32, 07:48)

3. Humility, Ego, and Challenges of Giftedness

• Difficulties Fitting In: Sean describes frustration when underestimated or dismissed due to his age, particularly in settings like museums. (08:40)
  • Quote: “When people don’t know my true power ... they look down on me and I just get so angry.” – Sean (08:40)
• Staying Grounded: Sean purposefully picks topics he’s unlikely to master on the first try as a strategy to remain humble. (10:27)
  • Quote: “I usually go and learn something that I know I won’t get on the first try. So then I end up not feeling like I’m the top of the world.” – Sean (10:27)
• Parental Guidance: Eunice coaches Sean to be comfortable saying, “I don’t know, but I’m going to look it up.” (11:02)

4. Science Literacy & Combating Misinformation

• Generation Alpha & Fact-Checking: Sean laments that many of his peers are “science illiterate and Internet fact-checking illiterate” despite information being widely available. He points out the prevalence of fake news circulating among children. (15:00–15:57)
  • Quote: “There are a lot of people ... not only science illiterate but Internet fact-checking illiterate.” – Sean (15:07)
• Critical Thinking Exercise: He advocates for comparing two credible-looking sources and deciding which is real or fake to encourage skepticism and reasoning. (16:00)
  • Quote: “Show people the truth that is shown through equations and math.” – Sean (16:39)

5. Distilling Complex Science into Simple Analogies

• Metaphors in Science Communication: Sean excels at using metaphors and analogies (like comparing quantum decoherence to flipping a coin) to make concepts accessible. (18:39–19:51)
  • Quote: “If you flip a coin, while that coin is in the air, it is both heads and tails simultaneously ... any interaction ... causes it to land ... collapse the quantum system.” – Sean (18:39)

6. Aspirations and Vision for the Future

• Career Plans: Sean’s dream is to be a “neurocardiosurgeon,” explaining his academic path and plans to open his own hospital and science foundation to distribute tools globally. (20:01–23:21)
  • Quote: “With the money I earned from my high school job and also my college job ... I will use that money to hire a construction team ... [to build] Sean’s Brain and Heart Surgery Center.” – Sean (21:03)
• Adaptability: He admits his love of physics has shifted his interests, illustrating a flexibility in his life plan. (23:45)
  • Quote: “I got dragged by an unbalanced force ... physics ... caused a redirection in my path.” – Sean (23:45)

7. Existential Inspiration from Science

• Stardust & Meaning: Sean gives a motivational monologue about being a “thermodynamic miracle ... made of literal stardust,” providing an uplifting perspective on our place in the universe. (24:53)
  • Quote: “People look at the sky ... the real ones say I am the result of 13.7 billion years of evolution ... I am the universe looking back at itself. And I am a blessing.” – Sean (24:53)

8. Lightning Round Highlights (28:24–34:39)

• Favorite Science Fact: “Did you know that you have 50% of the genes of a banana?” – Sean (28:31)
• Best Lesson from Mom: “Patience is key.” (28:53)
• What to Tell Kids Who Think Science is Boring: “You cannot escape science. It is everywhere.” (29:10–29:23)
• Dinner Guest: “Neil deGrasse Tyson or God himself” (29:29)
• Memorable Trolley Problem: Sean’s personalized version challenges Adam: save the cure for cancer or those who can create fusion energy? (32:42–35:17)
  • Adam’s response: “That might be the toughest version of the trolley problem I’ve ever heard.” (33:22)
  • Sean’s analysis: “Thinking scientific community wise, I’d kill the cancer guy. But thinking population wise, the fusion.” (34:39)

9. Modes of Curiosity: Broad vs. Deep

• How Sean Explores New Interests:
  • “My broad curiosity starts when I feel like I don’t have anything to learn ... until you pounce on something. ... My gaze halts ... I decide to dig more into it. Direct curiosity initiated. ... New interest found.” (36:07–36:57)
  • Adam: “Bam. New interest found. That’s my biggest takeaway from Sean.” (38:54)

10. Importance of Play and Balance

• Structured Play: Eunice recalls needing to “beg” Sean to play, as he naturally leaned toward learning over typical childhood recreation. (37:17–38:02)
  • Sean, humorously: “Woman, you’re wasting my time!” (playground anecdote) (37:48)
  • Adam underscores play’s role in serendipitous discovery: “Serendipity is a huge part of scientific discovery ... you wonder what would happen if ... don’t lose that sense of play.” (38:08–38:28)
  • Sean: “The scientific method is play around and find out.” (38:28)

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Notable & Memorable Quotes

• “If you’re not thinking about it simply, you’re not thinking hard enough.” – Sean (02:40)
• “Sometimes I look at him and I’m like, did I just give back to...” – Eunice on Sean’s gifts (03:03)
• “I used to walk up to my parents and say, I have soiled myself, Mother. I have soil.” – Sean (08:18)
• “Delay of gratification. Of course. This is how you build willpower.” – Adam (30:49)
• “I love making trolley problems that cause people to spontaneously combust.” – Sean (35:20)
• “Bam. New interest found.” – Sean (36:57, 38:54)
• “The scientific method is play around and find out.” – Sean (38:28)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sean describes his curiosity journey: 03:54–04:46
• Early reading discovery & parenting story: 06:03–07:48
• Discussing humility and not knowing: 10:24–11:29
• Science literacy and fact checking: 15:00–16:39
• Metaphors and teaching complex science: 18:39–19:51
• Sean’s career aspirations: 20:01–23:21
• Favorite stardust monologue: 24:53–25:25
• Lightning Round (fun, rapid Q&A): 28:24–34:39
• Broad vs. deep curiosity: 36:07–36:57
• Role of play in learning: 37:17–38:28

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Tone & Style

This episode is upbeat, humorous, and deeply insightful—balancing delightful anecdotes with profound reflections on learning, giftedness, humility, and the joy of scientific discovery. Sean’s irrepressible energy and vivid analogies elicit laughter and awe, while Eunice’s warmth and wisdom highlight the importance of supportive parenting.

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Conclusion

“Igniting Curiosity with Sean The Science Kid” showcases how a passion for learning, parental guidance, humility, and playful experimentation can foster lifelong curiosity and scientific literacy. The episode is a testament to the synergy between talent and nurturing, and a reminder that even the youngest minds can inspire us to rethink the world—and ourselves.

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Memorable Sendoff:
“Bam. New interest found.” – Sean (36:57, 38:54)

Transcript

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[Adam Grant (Host)]

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[Sean the Science Kid]

Discover [e-mail] sometimes when someone asks me a question that's obviously not on my level, I'm like, hmm, I don't know that one. I might research when I know well that if I research that thing, my brain's gonna turn into an oven. You could fry an egg on my head while trying to learn about the Riemannian cross of the relativistic blah blah blah.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

That's a great image. I will not be frying any eggs on your head, I promise. Hey everyone, it's Adam Grant.

Welcome back to Rethinking My Podcast with Ted on the Science of what Makes Us Tick. I'm an organizational psychologist and I'm taking you inside the minds of fascinating people.

To explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking.

Sean the Science Kid is an Internet educator and my youngest podcast guest ever. At only 10 years old, he has a voracious appetite for learning and contagious passion for sharing knowledge. He's a master of distilling complex science concepts.

[Sean the Science Kid]

If you're not thinking about it simply, you're not thinking hard enough. It's a take on what Einstein said. If you can't explain it simply Then you haven't truly learned it.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

It was a delight to talk with him and his mother, Eunice Adachobe, about science literacy, following his curiosity and how she helps him stay humble.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

He's a multifaceted child. He's good in almost everything. Sometimes I look at him and I'm like, did I just give back to.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Sean, do you remember the first science fact that you discovered that made your brain explode with curiosity?

[Sean the Science Kid]

To be honest, it was all of them. But I mean, some of the science facts that really interested me was about how this fist sized organ of your body, made of pure muscle, can pump blood throughout your body and make it do one full circle in a singular minute.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

This is fascinating. Tell me, when did you get interested in science?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Well, it wasn't exactly a turning point. It was more of a diffusion gradient. So basically I was a curious kid, I who love science, engineering, math, all of the cool stuff. But then slowly but surely my molecules, out of curiosity, started to diffuse through the semi permeable membrane through what's known as curiosity osmosis. I ended up on the science side.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Wow, I love that. That was not at all the answer I was expecting for our listeners who don't know what's the difference between a turning point and a diffusion gradient?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Imagine you're in a car and you have to pick between two options, going straight and turning into one lane. And the difference between a turning point and a gradient is with the turning point, you turn your steering wheel all the way to the other side and cause your car to be on two wheels for a second while drifting into the other lane while a diffusion gradient is slowly turning into the other lane.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Ah, that's great, Eunice, is this what your dinner table is like?

[Sean the Science Kid]

No, this is our life is like.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Every day of the week.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Oh, it's so fascinating. So let's talk about your origin a little bit. There's a rumor that you learned to read before you were even a year old. Is this true?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Uh huh. Do you think that 10 years ago she would have expected her son to read before she was even a year old?

[Adam Grant (Host)]

No, no. I mean most, most babies are struggling to walk at that point.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Yes. We got to know Sean could read at nine months.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Nine months.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

And it was amazing. Yes.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Eunice, what happened before then?

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

We realized that all he wanted to do was to watch educational videos. So you know how you have a baby, you put the TV in front of them, you put Mickey Mouse and all the other stuff on it and he wouldn't be watching those. But when the Adverts come on, which is the educational stuff they're trying to promote. Then his attention goes on those.

[Sean the Science Kid]

I actually still have a professional rivalry.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

With Mickey Mouse, so I started to switch it up for him to give him the educational stuff. And he will watch those for over two hours without blinking. So apparently he was soaking everything. One day I drove to Carter's to get him some clothes. And then when I got there and I parked, he said, carter's. So I looked back and I said, did you just say Carter's? And he was quiet.

[Sean the Science Kid]

No way.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

So I didn't say anything. Then when we got home, I showed him a Carter's flyers, and he said it again. I showed him Cole's flyers. He said it again. So I told his dad, I said, do you know your son can read? He said, no way. I said, well, let's see. And I had bought him some flyers for when he grows up a little bit. So I pulled him out. I showed him red. He said it. I showed him blue. He said it. So that was how our journey started. That was when we got to know that we had something more on our hands. And already he was a special kid because we waited for 12 years before we had him. After four miscarriages.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Grace from Working Hub Podcast]

So.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

So he was already special to us. And so when we got to know that, I decided to quit working and stay at home with him and just nurture him like that. At three, he was second grade level.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Yeah. So his doctor told me. He referred us to psychologists, pediatric psychologists. And this boy at two and a half years was reading pediatric psychologists. And everybody in the room were like, how old is he again? So after that consultation, we got to know that he was profoundly gifted. So we started putting in more efforts to nurture his brain, because he will learn everything.

[Sean the Science Kid]

By the way, I didn't used to cry. I just used to walk up to my parents and say, I have soiled myself, Mother. I have soil.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Sean, is it hard being smarter than most adults?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah, sometimes. When people don't know my true. My true power, when people don't know my true power, they look down on me and I just get so angry.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

They underestimate you.

[Sean the Science Kid]

I hope this isn't bad to say, but the word I was looking for was pissed.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

I. I think we can air that.

[Sean the Science Kid]

It's like you have been blinded to my true mental abilities. Like, whenever I go to a museum, I also get kind of annoyed when some other kids get the turn before me on, like, the science thing, because it's like you don't actually understand what angular momentum is.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Well, a little healthy rivalry has fueled a lot of great science, probably from Newton to Darwin to Einstein and beyond. Right?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah. The reason why imaginary numbers exist was actually because of a duel between two math mathematicians.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

There we go. So we. We like those duels. My colleague Samir Nurmahomed has published some research showing that when other people underestimate you, you feel like an underdog. And if you know they don't know what they're talking about, you become really motivated to prove them wrong. I feel like I'm hearing a little bit of that right now.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Oh, yeah, definitely.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Okay. So a big part of, I think, achieving expertise and making. Eventually making great discoveries is confidence, which you have a lot of, but it also requires humility. Right. You have to know what you don't know. You have to know that you're capable of making mistakes.

How do you stay humble?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Basically, to stay humble, I usually go and learn something that I know that I won't get on the first try. So then I end up not feeling like I'm the top of the world and the most prestigious genius ever. And then I just feel like a kid trying to learn something.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Oh, that's great. Eunice, do you feel like part of your job as a parent is to keep Sean's ego in check?

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Very much, and I do that a lot.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

How?

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

One thing that is with Shawn is that if somebody ask him a question and he doesn't even know it, he will use his brain to analyze the question and try to answer it. So I keep telling him that it's okay if you don't know the answer. You just tell them that, you know what? I don't know this one, but I'm gonna look up for it, and I'm gonna research on it and then come back with an answer to you. It's okay to say that.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Okay. So what I'm hearing is something similar to what new professors often face, which is you come into a classroom and a student asks you a question, and you want to show that you're an expert. And sometimes you're more focused on giving an answer than trying to teach them how to think about the answer. And I know I had to learn. I don't have to know the answer to every question. And when I'm really secure, I can say, you know what? I actually don't know. That's a great question. Let me look into that and get back to you.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Oh, yeah. Sometimes when someone asks me a question that's obviously not on my level. I'm like, hmm, I don't know that one I might research.

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[Adam Grant (Host)]

Okay, so another thing I wanted to ask you about is we live in a time where there's more scientific knowledge available than there ever has been in human history. Right. It's so accessible on the Internet.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

But instead of becoming informed, I feel like more and more people are science illiterate. What do we do about that?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Oh, so the thing is, this science accessibility thing is both a blessing and a curse. But there are a lot of people that I've met, especially in my own generation, Gen Alpha, that are not only science illiterate, but Internet fact checking illiterate. There are a lot of fake news out there, like, guys, NASA just proved the sun is fake or the moon is alive. And there are a lot of people who think they're getting it from credible sources, but really are just getting something that was plagiarized. Plagiarized. Plagiarized from like a Facebook page.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

So what do you think we can do to solve that?

[Sean the Science Kid]

So what I usually would want to do is like take two sources that both seem pretty convincing. Scientists just designed a new particle accelerator or scientists just achieved the first fusion reactor and tell people to see which one is fake and which one is real. Which one would you believe?

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Yeah, I think that's a very powerful teaching method to actually show people, first of all, how many mistakes they can make. Right. How easy it is for them to mess up.

[Sean the Science Kid]

This is literally exactly what I try to do with my entire channel. Show people the truth that is shown through equations and math. Most of the time.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Yeah. I think the comparing, contrasting method of making people aware of how fallible they are and then teaching them what are the cues and clues that differentiate truth from fiction.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Great place to start to add to what he said. One of the gifts that he has is the way he can make very complex things simple and explain it. And even right from baby, like from childhood, he started with me making me know that there's science in everything. So I think that is a very good approach he's putting in there to help people understand that science is not exclusive from life. Like, everything is science. Even picking up your glass and drinking it has so much science in it. So he tries to bring literacy to the world by letting them know that science is very simple and fun.

[Sean the Science Kid]

There's a metaphor that I like to use for this concept known as the equation utterer. If you were to carry out your daily life but were cursed with a curse that says you have to say every single science concept that you are using right now, then you would probably pass out.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

I was thinking about this right at the beginning of our conversation when I asked you about Diffusion gradients versus turning points. And you immediately painted the picture of driving a car. And that's something you do in so many of your videos. Sean, is is you take metaphors and analogies and take very abstract concepts and bring them to life in ways that are just one, fun and two, easy to understand. Is there anything you can teach us about how to be better at that ourselves?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Well, there are so many things you can compare abstract concepts in science to that are real. Like what science teachers do when they try to explain action. Think of it like this. Or picture this in your mind. Those are the two phrases that you should be using the most when you explain things like quantum decoherence. Think of it like this. If you flip a coin, while that coin is in the air, it is both heads and tails simultaneously. But any interaction with the environment, AKA gravity, causes it to land or decohere, which means collapse the quantum system into one singular state. Wheel of fortune and even casinos all take quantum decoherence and unknowingly turn it into a real life concept. Wow.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Oh, I've never seen decoherence in a casino before. This is a great connection for me. I know you have a very specific career aspiration.

[Sean the Science Kid]

A neurocardiosurgeon.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Tell me about that and how you decided on that.

[Sean the Science Kid]

When I was at the ripe old age of four, I loved anatomy. You know anatomy? The study of the inside of that meat suit. And I decided that the brain and the heart were my favorite organs. And studying them showed that the brain and the heart are in a loop that mostly fuels the rest of the organs.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Ah, that's great.

[Sean the Science Kid]

I used to want to be a neurocardiologist, but then I changed it to surgeon. Cause seeing organs in person just for me sounds kind of cool. But also fixing organs and saving lives.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Love that. What's the timeline that we're looking at? I imagine you've already started thinking about college.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Let me introduce you to my life. A thesis. So first of all, I will go to high school and get a high school job at my favorite place, Chick Fil A. While working at Chick Fil A and continuing my studies on how to find X, I will also be giving myself some courses to do so that in college I can skip all the boring stuff and go right to the AP classes. The AP classes I'll take are physics, cardiology, and neurology. Those classes will get me through my life plan. Then I'll spend some time in medical school and become a doctor. Then I'll either rent out an old hospital or Build it myself. With a building team of course. And with the money I earned from my high school job and also my college job, I will use that money to hire a construction team. And this construction team will build my hospital called Sean's Brain and Heart Surgery Center. And once this hospital has been built, we will start a trial run. Take a few of my family members into this building. And if they need help, we'll give it to them to test my employees skills. Once their skills have been successfully tested, then we go on a wild ride. My business starts booming. $1 million, $2 million. 3 million doll. I will buy myself a few yachts, a private jet and a mansion. And buy some things for my parents. A wheelchair made out of money and their own mansions. But there has been a silent thing behind this thesis. Let's see. The Psy Reach Foundation. It's a foundation that I've already gotten started building. And it will donate science tools to kids and adults in underdeveloped countries. Basically spreading science around the world.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Wow. With the exception of a couple of the purchases, it's a very inspiring vision.

[Sean the Science Kid]

With the exception of the yacht.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Yeah, I had a few notes, but I love the vision. I have to ask you because this show is about rethinking things. What happens if you discover there's an area of science that you love more or an area where you can make a bigger difference? Would you consider changing paths?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah. Around two years ago, I got dragged by an unbalanced force that is acting upon my inertial body known as physics. This physics caused a redirection in my path due to an unbalanced force that is known as attraction. It attracted me towards it, causing my accelerations to add up. To go from this path into anatomy to this path of physics. Max Planck and Bohr and Scrodinger and all of the cool people.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Oh, so you've discovered a second love for quantum physics.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah, well actually theoretical physics. Cause I love thinking and drawing and doing all of these thought experiments.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Well, this reminds me of what I think is my favorite video that you've done. I thought it was so profound. It was the video where you talked about being made of stardust. Do you remember that one?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah. The Sunday Motivation. People look at the sky and think, oh my gosh, the vastness of the universe makes me feel so insignificant. But the real ones say I am the result of 13.7 billion years of evolution. I am a thermodynamic miracle and a fighter of entropy. I am made of literal stardust that has been cultivated with hydrogen and helium bonding for millions of years. I am the universe looking back at itself. And I am a blessing.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

I was so moved by your description of that. You mentioned the expansion of the universe and I actually have a question for you about this. One of the things we're doing is we're inviting our past guests to pose a question to our current guests on the show. And last night I got an email from one of our past guests. He's an astrophysicist.

[Sean the Science Kid]

I'm getting excited.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

I don't know if you've heard of him. His name is Saul Perlmutter. He won a Nobel Prize for discovering the accelerating expansion of the universe. Does that ring a bell?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Ooh, yeah.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

So here's what Saul wants to know. He wants to know what's more fun for you. Learning something new about the world that makes sense out of something that seems.

Weird or learning about a way that.

We can catch the universe doing something really bizarre that's hard to explain.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Pretty sure the universe thing, I mean explaining weird stuff is basically what science already does does. But finding a way to see something that science hasn't seen yet is orders of magnitude cooler for me.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

That's a great answer. I think that's what Saul would pick too. Love that.

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[Adam Grant (Host)]

Sean, it's time for a lightning round. Are you up for that?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Let's go.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

What is your favorite science fact?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Did you know that you have 50% of the genes of a banana?

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Of a banana?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Wow. Okay. What is your favorite lesson that your mom has taught you?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Hmm. Well, all of them.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

What is your favorite?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Oh. Patience is key.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Ooh, that's a good one. For someone who likes to work so quickly, what would you say to kids who think science is boring?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Well, I would probably tell them about how they're using signs right now if it was in a formal setting. If it was in an informal setting.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Like the playground?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah, like the playground. Come here. Just kidding. Did you know that you're actually using science right now by swinging on that swing? You cannot escape science. It is everywhere.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Next question. If you could invite anyone to dinner, who would you most want to meet?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Neil DeGrasse Tyson or God himself?

[Adam Grant (Host)]

What is something you changed your mind about recently?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Not thinking about a shoe known as Heelys. So, yeah, I've gone on kind of a Heelys craze for the past three days.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Eunice, how did he change his mind on that?

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

I always tell him that you always have to prepare for if it doesn't happen, and that is one thing that he's struggling with and he's working on. He told me that he's changing his mind about it, but I know in his mind he's still expecting the Heelys.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Okay, I might want to change my favorite lesson to expect if it doesn't happen, honestly, because that happens more than patience is key. Yeah, it's like, hey, Mommy, can we get this thing? Sure. Maybe at the end of our trip.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Sometimes I intentionally delay the things he's.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Are you serious? I'm so serious. No, no, no, no. Serious. You're telling him before me?

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Yes, because it's something that I didn't want you to know. I intentionally delay, all right? Just to help him to work on his expectation.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Delay of gratification. Of course. This is how you build willpower. Sean, you know the marshmallow test, right?

[Sean the Science Kid]

No, not yet.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Oh, this is. This is one of the most famous studies in psychology. You take three and four year old kids and you put a marshmallow in front of them, and they have a choice. They can eat it now, or if they can wait a little while, they get two marshmallows. And it's a little test of whether you can have Patience. Right. And exercise self control. And it turns out that the kids who wait for the second marshmallow end up getting better grades in school 10 years later, and they get higher SAT scores because apparently they have really learned how to be in charge of their own impulses. And maybe sometimes waiting is a skill.

[Sean the Science Kid]

I would say I won't eat the marshmallow, but three year old, four year old me would find the nearest microscope and look at it, and next he would find the nearest vacuum chamber and drop the marshmallow in it to see some more scientific effects.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Well, what I love about that is this is one of the techniques that kids who succeed at the marshmallow task end up using is they change the meaning of the marshmallow. I don't think anyone in the original studies went the science route, but there were kids who would like, they would bounce the marshmallow like a ball or they'd try to change its shape just to make it less tempting to eat. I love your idea of looking at it under a microscope. You know, wildly creative. So Eunice, you're setting up some marshmallow tests for Sean?

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Oh, definitely. I try hard and I work on it.

[Sean the Science Kid]

She set up some marshmallow tests without me knowing.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

That's the best kind. Going back to the lightning round, what is a question you have for me?

[Sean the Science Kid]

Well, I might want to give you like a thought experiment. So I made my own version of the trolley problem. The same setup. Trolley is going towards one person, but this one person has the cure to cancer. And if you, if you divert the track from the cancer curing person, then it will hit five people who know how to make fusion energy commercial. Would you kill fusion energy or kill the cure to cancer?

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Wow, that, that might be the toughest version of the trolley problem I've ever heard.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

So, okay, so normally when psychologists study the trolley problem, we find that people are really sensitive to errors of commission, but not errors of omission. So they don't like the idea of pressing the switch. Right. To change the track because then they feel like they killed someone, but if they don't press it, they feel like they're not responsible when either way they're making a choice.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah, it's like the bystander effect.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Exactly. Your version adds a layer though, of trying to compare what are the benefits of curing cancer versus what are the benefits of fusion. I don't think I'm qualified to answer that. I think what I'd want to know though is how discoverable is each of those. Right. So the history of scientific discovery is full of multiples, right? Multiple scientists stumbling onto the same idea around the same time. And so presumably, if one person knows how to cure cancer now there's somebody else soon who's going to figure that out. But then the same is true for fusion. So I guess the question is, which one is harder to discover and then which one has more benefit in terms of the number of lives it would save?

[Sean the Science Kid]

If we're talking about number of lives, then I would divert the lever to the fusion energy people. But I'm thinking which one would have a better impact to the scientific community? The cure to cancer would be easier to find because we already know a lot about cancer, but fusion energy, sure, we've created one, but we still don't exactly know how to make it commercial. So thinking scientific community wise, I'd kill the cancer guy. But thinking population wise, the fusion.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Oh, that's such an interesting way to analyze it.

[Sean the Science Kid]

I love making trolley problems that cause people to spontaneously combust.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

That's great. Okay, final question. We started this conversation with curiosity, and I want to end it on curiosity. So in psychology, there are two kinds of curiosity. There's deep curiosity, where you really want to know the answer to a question, and you keep digging further and further to try to find it. And then there's broad curiosity, where you want to know about a lot of things, and you keep looking wider and wider, And Sean, you clearly have both. And I'm just curious about how you think about the balance of the two. And when you go broad and when you go deep and Eunice, how you think about balancing those two.

[Sean the Science Kid]

For Shawn, my broad curiosity starts when I feel like I don't have anything to learn. So then broad curiosity initiates. I go on YouTube, Instagram, where I can find learning stuff until you pounce on something. Yeah.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

And you're like, yes, I'm gonna dig into this.

[Sean the Science Kid]

The word is like. My gaze stops, my gaze halts.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Whoa.

[Sean the Science Kid]

And it focuses on that one thing. I decide to dig more into it. Direct curiosity initiated. This causes me to dig, dig, dig deeper until I find a golden nugget of something that I really like. And bam. New interest found.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Sean, you just coined my new favorite phrase. Bam. New interest found.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yes.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

That's a line we need in the world more.

[Sean the Science Kid]

I gotta put it on a T shirt or something.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

You should. I think you just coined it. It's beautiful. Eunice, did you want to add anything there?

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Before we wrap, Sean is. Let me tell you a little secret. At three, he will learn everything. So I had to direct him. And I remember the psychologist we visited told me that I had to make a conscious effort to get him to play. So we had to play as an effort.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Oh, yeah.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Where kids, you have to beg them to stop playing. Right. I had to beg mine to play.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Wow.

[Sean the Science Kid]

She would used to take me to the park, and instead of going to the playground like a normal kid, I'd be like, woman, you're wasting my time. And then read a book or something.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

You're wasting my time, Sean. That's the whole point of play, to waste time and enjoy it.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Well, I would just add also that serendipity is a huge part of scientific discovery, and so many of the great innovations throughout history have come from scientists just playing around. Right. And saying, I wonder what would happen if. And I don't want you to lose that sense of play as you get older.

[Sean the Science Kid]

Yeah. The scientific method is play around and find out.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Well, this has been an absolute joy. Eunice, I can't thank you enough for coming on and bringing Sean. And Sean, you're my favorite science teacher on the Internet.

[Eunice Adachobe (Sean's Mother)]

Thank you.

[Sean the Science Kid]

That was the most fun.

[Adam Grant (Host)]

Bam. New interest found. That's my biggest takeaway from Sean.

Exploring your existing interests expands your knowledge. Developing new interests enriches your life. Rethinking is hosted by me, Adam Grant. The show is produced by Ted with Cosmic Standard. Our producer is Jessica Glaser. Our editor is Alejandra Salazar. Our engineer is Asia Pilar Simpson. Our technical director is Jacob Winick, and our fact checker is Paul Durbin. Our team includes Eliza Smith, Roxanne Hylash, Banbam Cheng, Julia Dickerson, Tansika Sung Manivong and Whitney Pennington Rogers. Original music by Hans Dale Su and Alison Layton Brown.

I don't think I'm a fan of human cloning, but I might make an exception for Sean. How would you feel about being cloned?

[Sean the Science Kid]

I'd have someone that gets me. You know.

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[Adam Grant (Host)]

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