Adam Grant (2:40)

And I convinced her to get in

Podcast Host (Adam Grant) (2:41)

character to demonstrate how to be honest without being unkind.

Adam Grant (2:56)

I had to make sure you were actually coming on stage.

Kristen Bell (2:58)

I was not paying attention. Nope. I was talking.

Adam Grant (3:02)

Kristin, we are so glad to have you here at Uplift. Welcome.

Kristen Bell (3:05)

Thanks. Hi, guys.

Adam Grant (3:11)

Can we just get a sense of the audience? How many of you? I'm just gonna give you a few of Kristen's most iconic characters. Can you just cheer for the one you love most?

Kristen Bell (3:18)

Ooh, a contest.

Adam Grant (3:20)

Sarah Marshall.

Kristen Bell (3:24)

Strong start.

Adam Grant (3:26)

Okay, good. Princess Anna, some of you have already cheered twice. What? Why? Okay, how about Eleanor from the Good Place?

Kristen Bell (3:40)

Wow.

Adam Grant (3:40)

And Joanne from Nobody wants this.

Kristen Bell (3:46)

They stood. There's three standards on that one. I'm not the judge. Cause I can't be involved. But there was.

Adam Grant (3:52)

Eleanor had standards over there before, so.

Kristen Bell (3:55)

Yeah, see, I missed it. You don't always know everything.

Adam Grant (4:00)

Okay, so obviously. Thank you. Somebody said Veronica Mars. I was waiting for it. Cheer for Veronica Mars. Those are your real fans.

Kristen Bell (4:13)

That's very flattering, you guys. Thank you.

Adam Grant (4:16)

Okay, so, Kristin, here's what I want to know. Yeah, I've loved all of those characters, but in some ways, maybe your greatest role was as a banana.

Kristen Bell (4:26)

Thank you for noticing.

Adam Grant (4:27)

Adam, can you explain that to those who don't know what I'm talking about?

Kristen Bell (4:31)

Yeah. It was my entrance into the biz, as they say. I was a kid that was a really strong mimic. I mimicked everything. When I walked in the room and heard an announcer, I would just start to mimic it all the time. And my mom wanted me to be involved in some sort of, like, team activity. And I was a lot smaller than a lot of the other kids. And so she was like, huh. Well, she sings a lot and she mimics a lot, and she's a little bit performative. So what if we did theater? Great. Cut to. I go to audition for Raggedy Ann and Andy. When I got there and I got out of the car and I completely broke down because I, for the first time in my life, felt like, oh, I do all this mimic stuff at home with my family, but people will be watching. And my mom took my shoulders and she said, listen to me. If you absolutely botch this, we will never speak of this again. We don't even have to drive down this street again. Okay. And so I went in, I did it, and I got cast as a banana in the first act and a tree in the second act, obviously, because they knew I could handle the complexity. That was my first theater show.

Adam Grant (5:35)

Is there anything you learned from that that still affects you today?

Kristen Bell (5:39)

Oh, yeah. That was the first time I felt the true kind of energy rise of like teamwork where you prepare and you have this big secret with this group that you're working with. And there's like this creativity flowing because there's paint and props and all of these like fun things involved for kids. And we made a lot of the set pieces. And then you have the excitement of opening night and to. It was like my. The first time I really felt all of that excitement because to me, like, performing is really my chance to just be like, okay, I've prepared something. Come on in, come on in. And to simply just do it to give other people joy. Because you don't know if someone. This is their favorite show, you don't know if they're gonna maybe just want some like a respite from their family. And maybe they might just shut their eyes during the show, which is also fine. But you get to do it for the group and, and you get to add something. It's like a beautiful dance you do with a team. And I just wanted more.

Adam Grant (6:37)

Let's talk a little bit about preparation.

Kristen Bell (6:39)

Let's go.

Adam Grant (6:41)

What is your pregame ritual? How do you get yourself into the right mindset to perform?

Kristen Bell (6:45)

You caught it. You caught it back there.

Adam Grant (6:48)

Not paying attention.

Kristen Bell (6:49)

Correct. I'm not joking. It will literally be. We will be talking action. Let's go. You have. In my opinion, you have to know what works for you if you are to say. Cause in the business, when you're shooting, they say rolling and then they snap the little clapper for the camera and then they call action. So there's about a 30 second delay and I purposefully am not paying attention to any of that. For me, I wanna be like swallowing the last grapes that I'm eating, wiping off my hands and talking about like what I saw on the Secret Millionaire show last night, as they call action. Because for me, getting pushed off that cliff is how I do my most organic work in the scene. If I think too much, I find it's not as organic of a performance.

Adam Grant (7:42)

That's so interesting because I think I watch a lot of people who backstage will start meditating. And I always look at that and think, you're getting into the wrong mindset. You wanna have energy on stage. You don't want to be calm. If we're going to talk, we should be interacting. Right?

Kristen Bell (7:56)

Interesting.

Adam Grant (7:57)

Is it?

Kristen Bell (7:58)

Yes. And because I find I am fueled by numerous topics at once. Oh, but what about this? Oh, but what about this? And maybe that's my personal application of that. When we're talking about, like, oh, my gosh, did you see they had burritos at Crafty. Hello, Noah. You know what I mean?

Adam Grant (8:18)

Love it. So I think we're surrounded by people who care about coaching. You have a coach, you've worked with coaches throughout your career, but you have a coach that you're obsessed with now.

Kristen Bell (8:29)

Obsessed? I don't know that I'd say. I've worked with coaches throughout my. Unless my husband counts, because I, like, ask a lot of advice because he always has the opposite opinion. And I like to pressure test everything. And so I found this leadership coach who is a neuroscientist scientist named Dr. Julia Digangi. And she has a program that you can sign up for that's like 20 minutes a day in the morning. And I've been doing it since January 1st, and I have become obsessed with it. And then I emailed her and had started doing private coaching as well.

Adam Grant (8:59)

Okay, so two things here. First of all, you liking experts. This should not be a novelty. But in 2026, listening to people who know stuff feels important. I just wanted to underscore that.

Kristen Bell (9:13)

Yeah, and that's crazy, y'. All. I mean, what.

Adam Grant (9:20)

Okay. Secondly, one of the things that you have been struggling with throughout your life that you've been working on recently in coaching is your chronic people pleasing.

Kristen Bell (9:33)

She was like, ooh, yes, yes. I am vigilant about people having a good experience on planet Earth because that's what I want. And I like to be additive as opposed to, you know, being negative. And Dr. Digangi has informed me that this is coming from a fear based place because I am not confident internally enough to say something that might make someone upset. I don't yet have the capacity that I would like. I need to expand it to hold other people's discomfort. I have a problem telling the difference between your emotions and my emotions. It's harder for me. It takes more energy from my brain and my body. So if you are upset, I might take that on. And I don't want to be upset. So when I'm working with her, she tries to get really, really granular and explain about, listen, there are two things. There is your brain and there is reality. And oftentimes people spend their whole life trying to change the one they can't control. And it's literally just like running into a brick wall and continuing to do it. And it's continuing to do it. I mean, so she tries to ask me to give her the most granular situations of when I got like, A little bit nervous to say something that was authentic. And I gave her this ex. Last week, I was on a flight home from Nashville, and it was in the morning, and I went to sleep, and I woke up, and it was like 10am when we landed. I was like, oh, I need coffee. And the sweetest flight attendant, I was like, can I grab a cup of coffee before we land? She was like, yes, baby. And she said, do you want cream? I was like, yeah, a little. She brings me back her coffee, and it's half coffee, half cream. And that's fine. It's not my bag, but it's fine. It was a cup of milk. And so I was like, I need that juice. So. So I chug the coffee. And then I was like, I'm gonna go to the restroom. And I said, can I get one more cup of coffee? And she said, yes, absolutely. And I get out of my seat, and my mind is going, tell her you don't want two creams. Tell her you do not want two creams. Just say one cream. Please just say one cream. Go to the bathroom. Just say one cream. Just say one cream. Go to the bathroom. Just tell her one cream. Just say one cream. It's not gonna make a difference. That's fine. Just say one cream. No big deal. She comes out, she's like, same way. I'm like, yeah, thank you. And then Dr. Digangi was like, this is perfect. Perfect example. Look at how much energy you wasted. And if I come home at night, which I do, going like, I'm so drained. So drained. I'm so tired, you know, or feeling annoyed that there's, like, a whole system to put kids to bed. And wouldn't it be great to only do that same six days a week? And one day they do it themselves, but they're not capable of that, all the stuff. And I'm like, well, I wish I hadn't wasted so much energy. I'm just so drained. And she's like, yeah, well, look at what you're wasting it on. And also that there's a couple things at play there, right? Cause you really get to analyze it. That woman desires to do a good job. She was like the sweetest flight attendant. So a. I'm kind of stealing her joy a little bit when I don't tell her exactly what I want, which is rude. Which is kind of rude and kind of. Kind of. Yes, really rude. And also, I like. I just. I. I'm fearful that I would upset her by telling her how I like my coffee when you really say it out loud, particularly in front of a group of people. It sounds kind of crazy, but, like, you're. It's not trauma, obviously, but you're having a reaction to being fearful of upsetting this lady. And not only is it fear, but it's control. Because when she doesn't know who you are authentically and she doesn't have to change, you control the situation and you know exactly how she'll react. So you are actually fearful of sitting with her uncertainty. And then I was just like. I was like, whoa, you know, you want to shut the computer on someone who says something really strong.

Adam Grant (13:49)

Okay, so I have. I have some.

Kristen Bell (13:51)

I don't even know where we are.

Adam Grant (13:52)

No, I do, but I just want to pick up on a couple of things you said about people. Please.

Kristen Bell (13:58)

Yeah, keep me straight.

Adam Grant (13:59)

Because this relates to a frustration I had when give and take first came out. I spent a lot of time trying to encourage people to be givers rather than takers. And I kept getting typecast, to use a term from your world, as the nice guys and nice gals finish first person. And I kept having to explain, no, no, no, like, being a giver is not about being nice. It's not about pleasing people. It's about helping them. And those are two completely different things. And through I had so many of those conversations that it finally dawned on me that people pleasing is actually selfish.

Kristen Bell (14:37)

Because this is what Dax says to me all the time.

Adam Grant (14:39)

Well, Dax thinks everything is selfish and he's wrong about that, but we gang up on him. But I think that it's selfish in two ways. One is what you just described, which is you're an empath and you don't want to feel someone else's bad feelings. And so it's about you, but it's also selfish because you don't want to be disliked.

Kristen Bell (15:00)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if I'm disliked again, I can't control the situation. Right. And so what I'm learning that the really like boiling it down and is about. I am currently learning to practice just being patient and holding uncertainty.

Adam Grant (15:23)

I think this is very relevant to everyone in the room. When I think about the research on leadership, for example, there's a curvilinear relationship between how agreeable people are and how effective they tend to be at leading. If you're hyper agreeable, you tend to be too much of a people pleaser and you don't challenge your team enough. If you're hyper disagreeable, you tend to leave people feeling disrespected. And so it's easy, easier if you're in the middle of that spectrum. But if you're on your extreme or the other extreme, I think actually learning the skill of acting is useful. And so I want to talk about some of the things we can take away from acting for everyone in the room. Okay, so let's talk about chemistry with your co stars and your collaborators.

Kristen Bell (15:59)

Okay.

Adam Grant (16:00)

I want to talk about this from two angles. One is the chemistry screen or the Reed where you figure out who you have chemistry with. And then the other is how do you build it once you're stuck working with someone? So let's start at the beginning. I think. How many people have watched? Nobody wants this. Okay, so your chemistry with your boyfriend on that show is it's the first thing everyone talks about. Yeah. Even Dax admits it's illegal.

Podcast Host (Adam Grant) (16:28)

I know.

Kristen Bell (16:28)

He loves it so much, which makes

Adam Grant (16:30)

me a little uncomfortable.

Kristen Bell (16:31)

He's like, I want you guys to kiss me so bad.

Adam Grant (16:35)

And I'm like, stop cheating on Dax, Kristen. I'm not okay with that part of the job anyway.

Kristen Bell (16:43)

Okay, well, let me start by saying what Adam and I have. If you want to really break it down, we tapped into something that I don't think anyone's thinking about, which is this like super buried nostalgia of Veronica Mars and Seth Cohen hooking up. And no one really like thinks about that because we're older now and we've sort of forgotten those shows. But anyone that watched those shows always wanted a crossover. You know what I mean? You always wanted a crossover. But for me, when I. I will say this, maybe it's better for me to analyze people that I have to work really closely with, like my producing partner or someone else that I have to do day to day activities or my ads who have to like schedule the scenes and I have to trust them. If I say my daughter has a recital at 6pm and I really have to trust that they're going to get me out in time. Those kinds of people. The barometer that I use is if I can get enough of a read on you that I think I would let you babysit my kids, we're probably good to go. Like, we will be a match. Now when I'm on set, there's 75 other people there and I didn't hire them all personally. So when I'm around people that I know I'm gonna be working with and I wanna create an environment of like, teamwork, I start super duper small and find something that we might have in common. Of, like, I'm ordering Starbucks. Do you want Starbucks? Right. Or what kind of coffee do you like? Or anything super duper tiny. I love your shoes, by the way. Can I just say, this is what we should be talking about. Nobody's complimenting people enough. Like, we've, like, lost that, and it's not. I'm gonna get on a tangent real quick, and can you bring me back in a second? Can you, like, I'll consider it. Okay. It does not cost you anything to say something nice to someone, and it also. It comes naturally to you, and if. And if it doesn't, check your pulse. Because, like, I can be, like, looking anywhere and be like, oh, my gosh, I love those glasses, those red glasses right there. And there's a difference between me just clock. You're welcome. Difference between me just clocking them and then me actually stopping by being like, oh, my gosh, I really love your glasses. We don't say the thing. The nice things. We think all the time, and we need to figure out, like, what. Unlock that and let it fall out of our mouth. And it's one of the cutest things my husband does because he gives compliments to strangers with reckless abandon. If we're at a restaurant and someone like the waitress or the waiter has really nice eyebrows, he'd be like, wow, you have such great eyebrows. And I know he's doing it to flirt with me, first of all, but he lets compliments, flirt, fall off of him all the time. If he sees something he likes, he says it, and I think that's really, really beautiful. So I start with playfulness and something that connects us, that humanizes us on a level. I think keeping people's spirits up is an absolute superpower, and it's what oftentimes makes you look like a leader. And for a leader, especially one that people are often intimidated by, it is paramount to have playfulness.

Adam Grant (19:54)

Anyone else? Yeah, I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks that Kristen might have missed a calling as a chief people officer.

Kristen Bell (20:06)

Chief people officer.

Adam Grant (20:09)

I think you've been doing that job a little bit on the side.

Kristen Bell (20:12)

Great.

Adam Grant (20:13)

As a hobby. The compliment thing is tricky, though, when you're a leader or a person in a position of power on the receiving end of it, because I'm sure if

Podcast Host (Adam Grant) (20:23)

I came on set, the first person

Adam Grant (20:25)

I want to compliment is Kristen Bell. And I'm sure you get a lot of brown nosing, a lot of dishonest flattery. How do you deal with that?

Kristen Bell (20:34)

Well, I mean, honestly, it's so easy. It's easy for me to tell. I'm picking up on people's energetic signatures. I'm not picking up on the words. I'm looking for the people around me who maybe could benefit from a little sprinkle of attention. And if someone's giving me a lot of compliments, it's honestly probably not the person I'm going to gravitate towards the rest of the day.

Adam Grant (20:59)

So the fastest way to your heart is to insult you 100%.

Kristen Bell (21:03)

100%.

Podcast Host (Adam Grant) (21:04)

Done.

Kristen Bell (21:05)

Well, to tease me. Yeah. Because I think jokes are very funny and that's. I mean, I married my husband because he teases me all the time and I love it.

Adam Grant (21:12)

So I want to talk about when you mentioned a lot of times you're not in charge of casting and you don't get to control who you have to work with.

Kristen Bell (21:20)

Right, right.

Adam Grant (21:21)

And sometimes you have to work with people who are not as good as you are.

Kristen Bell (21:25)

Mm. I think it is very natural and normal and toddler esque to be jealous or envious of someone who has something that you want. Like when you're a toddler and you want french fries and someone has french fries, you. You're angry at that, you hate that person. I think it's. We're primates, so you can't get around it. So if you can't get around it, you just have to be aware of it. And for me in particular, I can't suck it up. I have a barrier here of the energy that I will protect because I have a finite amount of energy each day and I wanna make sure that I'm taking a good portion of it home to my family at night and I'm still able to engage with them even with long days. But I also think that, I think when you take someone else's bait of any negative emotion, you have to be really, really careful because if you don't transform it, you will transmit it and then you're a part of the problem. And that's even worse because you're part of the problem that you're complaining about. So I do take that very seriously. When something negative happens, I'm like, if I don't transform this, I will transmit it. And I just would prefer a better resume. I don't want to be responsible for transmitting a bunch of negative stuff.

Adam Grant (22:50)

I love that mantra. Thanks, you're welcome, compliment executed. There is a little wrinkle though, tell me. Which is when you say if you don't transform it, you will transmit it, I think a lot of people will be tempted to say okay. Whenever I feel an unpleasant emotion, I just immediately need to ward it off.

Kristen Bell (23:14)

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adam Grant (23:15)

I'm gonna avoid it, or I'm gonna deny it, or I'm gonna suppress it. And I don't think that's what you're talking about.

Kristen Bell (23:21)

No, not in the slightest. Transforming something does not mean ignoring it. Transformation means taking something that exists fully, making it something different, and spitting it out. Right. You're transforming it.

Podcast Host (Adam Grant) (23:37)

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Adam Grant (25:51)

So I want to go back to Envy for a second because you, I think, for most of your life have been immune to envy. You maybe pathologically see the best in people. Some people believe. Some people who know you and love you believe that you bend over backward to see the good in everyone. Yeah, I've seen you do it with people who don't deserve it even, which is fun. And I can see you're coming around. You're admitting that this might be true.

Kristen Bell (26:20)

No. I'm about to take you down.

Adam Grant (26:23)

I have a lot of evidence on my side on this one. But you joined the Envy fold not terribly long ago when I was stunned to find out that you had someone that you envied.

Kristen Bell (26:37)

Yeah.

Adam Grant (26:38)

Tell us who and why.

Kristen Bell (26:39)

Listen, Anna Kendrick is aggressively talented. Okay? Everything she does is exceptional. And she's gotten a lot of roles that I wanted. A lot of roles that I wanted. And sometimes I think about that and that's where I'm gonna leave.

Adam Grant (27:03)

Wait. But not only that. Right. She's also short.

Kristen Bell (27:06)

Uh huh. She's petite. There's a killer set of pipes.

Adam Grant (27:10)

Yeah. And so she's actually. She's taking your role in the world, not just in movies.

Kristen Bell (27:16)

That's correct.

Adam Grant (27:19)

I just wanted to remind you of that so you could feel the emotion and now transform it for us.

Kristen Bell (27:25)

Okay, so when I'm hyper fixated on that, I pause. I recognize. Has hyper fixation ever really gotten me anywhere? The answer is no. Rest and restorative behaviors have gotten me somewhere. Cause I'm great at going to get it. But I gotta stop pulling on the plant. I then will go, oh, I wanted that role so much. And then I'll go, was that the only role that's casting this year? Probably not. Probably. There are other roles. Oh, I don't know about any of the other roles because I haven't looked into them. And that is where the I don't know play a big part in my life. You do not know as much as you think you know. Everyone who thinks they know is wrong. We are. Each one of us is a mosaic of our experiences. Right? So every single one of us is built Completely differently.

Adam Grant (28:25)

So what did you do to manage that thing?

Kristen Bell (28:27)

I remembered that she's a different person and deserves those roles. I mean, I really just. I think I probably got to, like, an Ubuntu place with her. Like, the light in me sees the light in you. Like, you are allowed to exist. I don't get all the roles just because I want them. What are you talking about? You know what I mean. I may have thought I was really good for that role or really wanted to do that role, but there's a bunch of other people in charge who have had a bunch of other experiences and other priors that are building a project that I'm not involved in, and they chose her, and that's okay. And I have the choice of how long I'm going to let that bother me.

Adam Grant (29:06)

So I think the takeaway here is that you shouldn't give power over your emotions to Anna Kendrick.

Kristen Bell (29:13)

That's right.

Adam Grant (29:14)

None of you.

Kristen Bell (29:15)

You can never have it.

Adam Grant (29:18)

Do not cede control over your emotions.

Kristen Bell (29:20)

But you know what's so funny is then when she was on the podcast and she was so, so great on Dax's podcast, she was so vulnerable. And Dax made her come in the house to meet me because he knew he was gonna, like, mend this jealousy I had towards her, and she was so beautiful. And I just. I gave her a big hug, and I was like, oh, my God, I love you so much. I'm all constantly so jealous of you. And then she and I admitted it, and I felt really good about it after that.

Adam Grant (29:45)

Wow. I was a little sad that you mended it because I wanted you to sit with a. Like, a little.

Kristen Bell (29:51)

I feel like I sat with a little discomfort, like, 10 years.

Adam Grant (29:55)

All right, that's fair. I just didn't know about it until recently. Okay. So, Kristen, you were talking a few minutes ago about playfulness being important.

Kristen Bell (30:03)

Yeah.

Adam Grant (30:04)

So I thought it'd be fun to play a game.

Kristen Bell (30:05)

Do it.

Adam Grant (30:06)

Okay. I think maybe in part because of your people pleasing tendencies, this is maybe the silver lining in them. In part because of your emotional intelligence and in part because of your acting skills, I think you are extraordinarily good at dishing out tough love.

Kristen Bell (30:21)

Ooh.

Adam Grant (30:21)

I have watched you give.

Kristen Bell (30:23)

So exhausting, though.

Adam Grant (30:24)

Well, that's why we're gonna make it a game.

Kristen Bell (30:25)

Okay, great.

Adam Grant (30:27)

So I've watched you give critical feedback to people in ways that don't crush their souls. I have watched you maybe say things that are honest that other people might not want to hear, and they take it fine. Because of the way that you deliver it. And so I thought it'd be fun if you could demonstrate that skill for us today.

Kristen Bell (30:42)

Okay.

Adam Grant (30:43)

And you can do it in any of your characters if it's easier for you.

Kristen Bell (30:46)

Okay.

Adam Grant (30:48)

Your choice. The first one is I'd like you to imagine that you are working with people who are basing decisions on ego instead of facts. What would you say to those people?

Advertisement Voice (30:58)

People?

Kristen Bell (31:00)

I would start with a question, not a statement, because it's a little bit more communicative. And I always ask, can I pressure test this? And I talk with my hands a lot, and I tend to give body feedback that I'm not a threat. Like, here to help. Just want to pressure test this by saying that I feel as though I'm also reminding them we're on a team. Because team members have respect. When they ask permission, they don't just say like, no, you're wrong, or hey, you're doing this. The pointing of the finger thing. Just. You never get a good result. And if you don't get a good result, why even waste your energy trying? And then I would probably speak slowly and thoughtfully so that they knew I was concerned. And. And I would then present a detail that showed them we might be missing something. I would probably say, can I pressure test this? If we hire that person without seeing any others, I just worry. I don't want us to miss some genius that's one audition away from being seen by us. And if we do wait a little bit longer, we could get really lucky. So there's sort of like a flow of emotional math that I'm trying to use when I speak to the person. That's like respect, but not. What's it called when you, like, bow to someone? Like, what's that deference I'm hearing from the audience? Sure. Don't use deference, because then they already know you're not strong enough to pressure test it. Stay in the conversation, but be a team member and then provide them a piece of information that allows them to be reminded that they don't know everything. Because we don't know everything.

Adam Grant (33:00)

I think. Okay, so I love this sequence here of leading with inquiry rather than advocacy, then showing care and concern and making it clear that this is a collective problem, not just an individual one, and reducing the threat level. My hands are empty. There's no weapon here. Okay, let me ask you to do a couple in character now.

Kristen Bell (33:20)

Oh, my God.

Advertisement Voice (33:21)

Adam.

Kristen Bell (33:22)

Okay, great. Let's do it.

Adam Grant (33:23)

Kristen got no warning that this was going to happen. So imagine that you have someone close to you who is dumping their problems on you and complaining a lot. And you need to set a boundary so you can treat me as Elsa and you're Anna. What would you say when Elsa is dragging you down? And I can say, rolling. Whenever you're ready.

Kristen Bell (33:48)

Do you know what's so funny? I couldn't do this as Kristen. I would have passed on that question because I don't know how to do that to someone.

Podcast Host (Adam Grant) (33:56)

I know.

Kristen Bell (33:57)

But here's what I think Ana would do.

Adam Grant (33:58)

Okay, ready?

Kristen Bell (33:59)

Okay.

Adam Grant (34:00)

Okay. Hold on, hold on.

Kristen Bell (34:01)

She would say, right, Elsa, you know you're my best friend and sister, and we always will be, but when you have these really heavy problems, I'm not sure right now I'm strong enough to carry them. So let's lay them in between us, and I'll still be here with you, but I can't hold them right now. And in.

Adam Grant (34:32)

I think you might have just escaped an icy blast.

Kristen Bell (34:35)

And hopefully.

Adam Grant (34:38)

Okay, let me do another one if you're ready. Okay. We're on the Good Place. I am Michael, and I am taking credit for the brilliant idea that you had to get us out of the Bad Place.

Kristen Bell (34:52)

Okay.

Adam Grant (34:54)

Hey, Elner.

Kristen Bell (34:56)

What up, Mike? You know I was on this team too, right, bro?

Adam Grant (35:01)

Oh, I'm so sorry.

Kristen Bell (35:04)

Thank you. The end. Eleanor would not have a problem saying any of that, but can I tell you how I would handle it? So, like, this is where playfulness, I think, comes back into the equation, because a lot of things can be handled in playfulness if it's really authentically playful. And the truth. You simply state your truth in kind of a playful way that is not really aggressive. Because you need to add this correction right now. And you have to. It's really important. You add it with a, like, a straight spine or, like, a confident, energetic signature.

Adam Grant (35:43)

Okay. I have noticed you have a secret weapon that gets you out of people staying too long at your house. Does anyone ever have the problem of guests overstaying their welcome and you can't get rid of them? Or, whoa.

Kristen Bell (35:57)

Fright.

Adam Grant (35:58)

Or somebody shows up in your office and they won't leave? Like, this is a perpetual problem for we agreeable people pleasers.

Kristen Bell (36:04)

Yeah.

Adam Grant (36:05)

And yet you have cracked this code.

Kristen Bell (36:06)

What do I do?

Adam Grant (36:07)

Well, I've seen you do it several times, like, dinner is done.

Kristen Bell (36:10)

Get out. No, just kidding.

Adam Grant (36:12)

No. Maybe you don't even realize you're doing it.

Kristen Bell (36:14)

I might not tell, dinner is done.

Adam Grant (36:16)

And you just say, it was so great having you.

Kristen Bell (36:19)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adam Grant (36:20)

As if, like, you've immediately taken dinner into the past. It's like, not. It is great having you. No, no, no. This has already happened. It's done. Go home. But you say it so kindly. It doesn't feel like you're kicking other people out.

Kristen Bell (36:33)

This is what writers do in a writer's room, right? They want to write a scene between two people and they want the motivation and action to be one thing, but they can't use those words, so they have to do two. Oftentimes, writers have to make two things work at once. So if you want someone to leave but you still want them to like you, you just have to put a little bit of thought into what you say. And apparently I have mastered the it was so great having you.

Adam Grant (36:58)

That's exactly how you do it.

Kristen Bell (37:00)

It was so great. Do you know my mom has a sign in her house that says, please leave by nine. Cause we're real early to bed people. But you're accomplishing two things. You are stating a genuine experience. Because I don't have people over to my house. Like, when you're over for dinner, I don't not want you in my life or over to my house. But I also know to protect myself and my energy, I do need to go to bed by nine. So if you want to stay up and talk all night, you are welcome to, but it will not be with me.

Adam Grant (37:32)

I found this so useful. I say this to people only. I find myself sometimes wanting to say it when they arrive. Oh, yeah, somebody walks in the door. It was so nice having you. That doesn't work.

Kristen Bell (37:46)

You know what, though? Annoyance is the price we pay for community. And again, damn it, K. Bell, you

Adam Grant (37:54)

just transformed a thing that I prefer to transmit, which is I am annoyed by your presence. Go home.

Kristen Bell (38:00)

You can totally be annoyed. You can be annoyed, but for someone you've invited into your house, my value system would say you probably can't kick them out the second they get there. And we're supposed to be annoyed with people. We're supposed to be annoyed with people. We're not supposed to be the same. We're supposed to be different. And you're supposed to be annoyed with Uncle Randy at dinner because he has some archaic point of view and if he talks about it too much, you can say like, I just can't. Can we please move on from that subject? You know, you're allowed to state your opinion, they're allowed to state theirs back. And Uncle Randy sucks. And he's always gonna suck, you guys. He's not gonna not suck but he's your uncle, he's your mom's only brother, and you have him over for dinner once in a while. You know why? Cause if he sucks this much to you, he doesn't have any other friends. That's like the four times Uncle Randy gets some community. So make the chicken and listen to him. So I've tried to be really mindful with my words. And one of the things of, like, cutting people out. What are the other things people say when they, like, you know, destroy?

Adam Grant (39:14)

No contact.

Kristen Bell (39:15)

No contact.

Adam Grant (39:16)

Ghosting.

Kristen Bell (39:16)

Yeah, ghosting.

Adam Grant (39:17)

Or like, this is not a healthy relationship for me.

Kristen Bell (39:20)

Come on. Then you need to expand your capacity, is what I would say.

Podcast Host (Adam Grant) (39:28)

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Adam Grant (41:31)

It is lightning. Round time. First question is, which of all the roles you played, which character did you identify most with?

Kristen Bell (41:39)

There are slivers of me in each one of them, certainly, but Anna of Arendelle is probably the closest agree.

Adam Grant (41:52)

Okay. The one you identify least with. I was torn between Eleanor and Sarah Marshall. Is either of those. Right?

Kristen Bell (42:00)

It's Sarah Marshall. I identify quite a bit with Eleanor. Listen, if you studied internal family systems, you know, there are different people coming up from the living room all the time. Okay? And I've got different people popping up, and one's a professional and one's a badass and one's real snarky and one's real tired. So they're all in there.

Adam Grant (42:16)

We're gonna debate this later.

Kristen Bell (42:18)

You don't like it?

Adam Grant (42:19)

No. You don't have different people in your head. They're just different aspects of your personality. Samantha, we don't need all the parts.

Kristen Bell (42:26)

Well, they don't have to be different people, but could they, like, at least have different wigs? Let's make it fun. Adam.

Adam Grant (42:30)

My God, you have to bring up the wigs with me. So cruel. Okay, if you could play one role again, who would you love to reinhabit?

Kristen Bell (42:44)

Eleanor. She was so fun and she said such dirty things.

Adam Grant (42:51)

Worst career advice you ever gotten.

Kristen Bell (42:53)

It wasn't explicitly said to me. It was absorbed by comparison. And the things I saw around me, which was try to be what they want you to be. And I, for many, many years, was like auditioning for things. I was like, oh, Emily Blunt, Michelle Williams, gonna be Anna Kendrick again. And my husband finally said to me, and I was like saying something about some Oscar worthy indie that I didn't get. And he was like, my God, stay in your lane. And I was like, what? What? But I was like, oh, yeah, wait, if I stay in my lane, I actually can figure out how to drive this car. And I can bring my own weird personality to things, or I can look for things that I feel good about.

Adam Grant (43:36)

Love it. Tell me something that you have changed your mind about lately or rethought one sentence.

Kristen Bell (43:42)

I'm accepting the fact that over explaining is a form of begging.

Adam Grant (43:49)

Wow, that's really powerful. And I'm not gonna ask you to explain, as tempted as I am. Okay, what's a show we should all check out that we might not know yet? You give the best recommendations.

Kristen Bell (44:02)

Okay, guys, if you want the truth, it is called Million Dollar Secret. It is on Netflix. It's a Real life version of werewolves and villagers or mafia the game.

Adam Grant (44:14)

Okay, what's a lightning question you have for me?

Kristen Bell (44:18)

Do you ever have days when you feel you're completely overtaken by the negative energy of the world and want to throw your hands up in the air and not give people good or balancing advice? And if you do, how do you combat that?

Adam Grant (44:36)

No.

Kristen Bell (44:41)

Were you proving to me that you can answer short questions?

Adam Grant (44:43)

Yes.

Kristen Bell (44:47)

That's fair.

Adam Grant (44:49)

I don't ever have a day like that. Ever. I can't even. I can't fathom it because I have the great fortune of having extraordinary people in my life and getting to teach brilliant students who inspire me to want to learn more. So I have something worth teaching. I have an incredible family who teaches, comes home and makes fun of me every day and makes me realize I need to get better at everything I'm trying to do.

Kristen Bell (45:17)

Amen.

Adam Grant (45:17)

And I think everywhere I look, I see people who have huge hearts and who are trying to make the world a better place. And those are not the people in the headlines. Those are not the people who want to run the free world.

Podcast Host (Adam Grant) (45:30)

Those are not always the people who

Adam Grant (45:31)

want to be CEOs of big companies, but they are the people who make the world go round. And I think it's impossible to feel pessimistic or discouraged when you look around and see just if everyone in the room, if you were to just pause for a second and think about how many people you know that you have 100% faith in their motivation, their values, their character. If there are more than two people on your list, that is a reason to be hopeful. And I have a lot of people on that list. And so I look at the world and think, yeah, there's an amplified sliver of the world that sucks really badly. And I am not gonna let those people dominate my vision.

Kristen Bell (46:18)

I also feel bad sometimes for those people because that's such a beautiful pov.

Adam Grant (46:26)

Ladies and gentlemen, Kristen Bell. Big

Podcast Host (Adam Grant) (46:33)

Rethinking is hosted by me, Adam Grant. The show is produced by Ted with Cosmic Standard. Our producer is Jessica Glaser. Our editor is Alejandra Salazar. Our engineer is Asia Pilar Simpson. Our technical director is Jacob Winick. And our fact checker is Paul Durbin. Our team includes Eliza Smith, Roxanne Hylash, Ban Chang, Julia Dickerson, Tansika Sung Manivong and Whitney Pennington Rogers. Original music by Hans Dale Su and Alison Layton Brown.

Kristen Bell (47:03)

Let's focus for a second, Kristen.

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