Podcast Summary: ReThinking – John Green on Fighting Diseases of Injustice

Podcast: ReThinking with Adam Grant (TED)
Episode: John Green on fighting diseases of injustice
Release Date: July 15, 2025
Host: Adam Grant
Guest: John Green

Episode Overview

This episode of ReThinking dives into the intersection of health, justice, and creativity with bestselling author, educator, and activist John Green. The conversation centers around Green’s latest book, Everything Is Tuberculosis, which tackles the global injustice of tuberculosis (TB) and the systemic barriers to its eradication. Grant and Green explore themes of public health inequity, personal motivation, collaboration, creativity, mental health, book censorship, and the importance of finding meaning through human connection.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

John's Motivation: Why Write About Tuberculosis?

• Highlight: John Green describes tuberculosis as the “exemplary disease of injustice” (04:21).
  • TB is the deadliest infectious disease globally, yet remains neglected and under-discussed.
  • Green’s personal connection: Meeting a young patient named Henry at a TB hospital in Sierra Leone, whose story highlighted the devastating personal cost of global health disparities (05:51).
  • Green: “To me, tuberculosis is the exemplary disease of injustice because... we know so little about it and we talk so little about it.” (04:21)

The Moral Outrage and Systemic Failures

• Injustice in Global Health: The tools to cure TB exist, but wealth and health resources are inequitably distributed.
  • Quote: “We have systems that don’t value all human lives equally.” – John Green (09:20)
  • Personal story: Green contrasts his brother’s expensive cancer treatment with the meager amount required to cure TB, noting the disparity in how lives are valued depending on context (08:01–09:31).
• Cost vs. Value: Green insists that eradicating TB is within our global means — $25 billion per year for ten years — but is stalled by a lack of political and financial will (09:43).
  • “As a species, we have those resources. We have those resources in abundance, frankly.” (09:43)

Advocating for Change: Pharma Pressure and Policy

• Pressure on Pharma: Green’s activism encourages pharmaceutical companies to lower TB drug prices.
  • Not all companies or workers are “evil,” but incentives are misaligned with public health need (10:35).
  • Success example: Johnson & Johnson relented on secondary patents for bedaquilin, slashing global prices after public and private pressure (11:08).
• The Public Sector’s Vital Role: Green underscores the irreplaceability of public investment, especially US foreign aid, in fighting TB. Cutting aid causes direct, deadly treatment interruptions (12:24).

  “Nothing can fill the gap that government leaves. But we have to try to fill some of these gaps…” (40:34)

Collaboration, Creativity, and Motivation

Working with Hank Green

• Deep sibling relationship is founded on “making things together”—whether for public consumption or as a private project (33:51).
  • “It's the joy of my life to be so tight with my brother and also to have somebody I can trust all the way down.” (33:21)

The Nature of Collaborative Action

• Effective pressure on corporations and policymakers often starts with private conversations, but sometimes public action becomes necessary (14:19).

Writing & Dealing with Writer’s Block

• Green advocates for “permission to be bad”; the key is starting, even if the initial output is poor (26:11).

  “Just start and be bad. You go back and watch the first videos that Hank and I made... they’re bad.” (26:11)

• The best writing apprenticeship is reading—especially learning from flawed works (27:52).

Motivation & Purpose

• Green loves motivational quotes — even the cheesy ones — and doesn’t shy from finding inspiration in them (34:20).
  • “The cheesier the better… I love that cheesy stuff because it’s true. It works on me.” (34:37)
• The real meaning and value, he claims, is in “being with each other, to be in community, and to carry each other through everything in life.” (41:12)

Dealing with Mental Health & Obsessive Thoughts

• Green is open about living with OCD and the misconception that mental illness is incompatible with success (20:02).
• Discusses how his obsession with disease (as a subject and a fear) ties into his writing and activism (18:53).

The ‘Marco Polo’ Metaphor for Creative Work

• Writing (and creative expression more broadly) is described as a game of Marco Polo: the creator calls out into the void, and only when someone answers (“Polo”) does the work fully exist (16:24).
  • “That’s how I think of writing… Eventually the book comes out and for the first time, I hear someone say back to me, ‘Polo’. And it’s the loveliest thing.” (16:24–16:57)
• Applies this to his regret about not hearing an early call for help from Shreya, a TB patient and fan (17:09).

Book Bans and Censorship

• Green’s books, while used in educational settings and widely celebrated, are also among those banned in schools. He describes this as “mostly just hurts my feelings” and more detrimental for librarians and teachers than for himself (24:10).
  • “It really has hurt the ability of my books to reach people… the vast majority [of banned titles] are LGBTQ authors or authors of color.” (24:10)

Combating Conspiracy Theories

• Discussion on how to reach those caught in conspiratorial mindsets: ask what sources they trust, and what would persuade them otherwise (23:39).

Quick Hits: Lightning Round

• Deletes tweets when they go beyond his intended audience: “The moment it escapes containment… I’m like, oh, no, I didn’t mean that for you.” (38:22)
• Views on AI in creative careers: “I don’t know. And I think anyone who says they know is not telling the truth.” (38:59)
• “Long live long form” (39:12).
• Favorite soda is Dr. Pepper, which he lauds as “the greatest achievement in human history” (39:30).

Inspiring Hope: Progress & Meaning

• To show aliens humanity is worth saving, Green would show the graph of under-5 mortality rates declining by 60% since the mid-1990s — not by accident, but by concerted, compassionate global effort (31:39).
• Closing definition of the meaning of life: “To be with each other, to be in community, and to carry each other through everything in life… and to pay attention.” (41:12)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On TB as injustice:

  “We have systems that don’t value all human lives equally.” – John Green (09:20)

• On intrinsic motivation:

  “You have to find some of that [validation] within you. Because if you’re only looking for external validation, my experience is, it will never be enough.” – John Green (29:24)

• On creative beginnings:

  “Just start and be bad.” – John Green (26:11)

• On motivation:

  “The cheesier the better... I love that cheesy stuff because it’s true. It works on me.” – John Green (34:37)

• On humanity’s worth:

  “We decreased child mortality by 60%... it happened because millions of people... came together and decided to prioritize the lives of children.” – John Green (31:39)

• On meaning:

  “The meaning of life is to be with each other, to be in community, and to carry each other through everything in life.” – John Green (41:12)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• John’s Path to Writing (College & Realism): 01:35–03:07
• Why TB? Personal Stories: 04:04–07:43
• Inequality in Treatment Access: 08:01–09:31
• Activism & Pharma Accountability: 10:35–12:24
• The ‘Marco Polo’ Metaphor and Shreya’s Story: 16:02–18:26
• Living with OCD & Disease Obsession: 18:34–19:52
• Combatting Book Bans: 24:10–26:03
• Writer’s Block & Writing Advice: 26:11–29:24
• Sibling Collaboration & Hank’s 2D Glasses: 29:53–31:26
• If Aliens Came—Graph of Child Mortality: 31:39–32:46
• How to Build Deep Collaborations: 33:51–34:06
• Motivational Quotes—Yay or Nay: 34:20–36:28
• Lightning Round: 38:02–39:30
• Action on TB & The Meaning of Life: 40:34–41:47

Action Steps and Takeaways

1. Support organizations like Partners in Health working on TB eradication and equitable healthcare (40:34).
2. Advocate for public investment by contacting legislators and fighting for foreign aid funding for vital global health threats.
3. Find meaning in community and in “paying attention” — to issues, to loved ones, and to the world’s needs.

Episode Tone and Character

The episode is energetic, personal, and earnest—balancing devastating realities with hope, humor, and practical advice. John Green is open, self-deprecating, and deeply committed to making invisible injustices visible and actionable. Adam Grant’s incisive, warm questioning keeps the conversation moving and layered with insight.

For listeners: This conversation makes the global fight against diseases of injustice personal and actionable, while also providing rich guidance on pursuing meaningful creative work and nurturing collaboration.