ReThinking: The Myth of Genius with Helen Lewis
Podcast: ReThinking
Host: Adam Grant (with TED)
Guest: Helen Lewis
Release Date: August 19, 2025
Overview
In this thought-provoking episode, organizational psychologist Adam Grant welcomes journalist and author Helen Lewis to rethink the idea of "genius." Drawing from her book, The Genius Myth, Lewis questions the cultural and historical roots of labeling individuals as geniuses, how this shapes our expectations and behaviors, and discusses the real nature of extraordinary achievement. Together, they debunk familiar myths, discuss the pitfalls of genius branding, and advocate for focusing on acts of genius—rather than genius as an intrinsic trait—while exploring the importance of context, collaboration, and humility.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The "Genius" Label: Is It Real or Myth?
[01:36-03:39]
- Helen Lewis differentiates between “acts of genius” and labeling people as “geniuses.”
- She advocates celebrating exceptional achievements, not idolizing individuals beyond reality:
“The way that we talk about exceptional achievement is often not actually grounded in reality. I think it’s healthier to talk about acts of genius than people as geniuses... you don’t do all this stuff on your own.” — Helen Lewis [01:36]
- Many stories about geniuses (like Newton and the apple) are more mythology than biography.
- The desire for singular protagonists oversimplifies the complex, collaborative reality of achievement.
2. Branding Genius
[03:39-04:53]
- Adam Grant notes the danger of letting repeated acts frame someone as a genius, prompting Helen to highlight the role of branding:
- Genius becomes a branding tool used to market individuals (e.g., Einstein as a product mascot).
- This perpetuates unrealistic expectations and calcifies public roles, potentially hindering real creativity.
3. Ego, Humility, and Growth
[04:53-06:09]
- The genius label inflates egos and leads to narcissism.
- Success can create anxiety about future achievements and identity.
- Doubt and humility are necessary for continued growth:
“It keeps us questioning ourselves. It keeps us growing. It keeps us not believing the flattery…” — Adam Grant [05:36]
4. Historical Shifts: “Having” vs. “Being” a Genius
[06:09-08:20]
- Adam Grant references Liz Gilbert’s idea that, historically, one "had" a genius or creative muse, a spirit that visited.
- Helen Lewis finds value in this: creative bursts can feel uncontrollable, like visiting “divine fury.”
- Modern secularism contributed to “being” a genius, recognizing autonomy, but also idolizing individuals.
5. Capitalism, Celebrity, and the Market for Genius
[08:20-10:36]
- Lewis speculates that capitalism and the rise of mass media intensified the branding of genius.
- The shift to self-marketing in the industrial age (e.g., Thomas Edison) led to cult figures who were promoted not just for their work, but their personas.
6. Peak, Mean, and the Making of a Genius
[10:36-12:38]
- Discussion of assessing achievement: mean (average output), sum (total work), and peak (best work).
- Edison’s “genius” lay in manufacturing and logistics, not just singular inventions.
“[Edison’s] real genius is not this conceptual genius, which is how we tend to think of geniuses, but manufacturing genius. …The real achievement is the electricity grid.” — Helen Lewis [11:03]
- The myth of genius often undervalues incremental or less glamorous contributions.
7. The Role of Luck and Survivorship Bias
[12:38-14:34]
- Genius stories are subject to survivorship bias—stories of risk-takers are told because they succeeded, not because risk is universally virtuous.
- Helen Lewis:
“There’s a kind of bias towards successful people… we shouldn’t overread. Reverse engineer from the biographies of successful people to what caused their success.” [13:10]
8. Attribution Problems: Genius and Charisma
[14:34-16:36]
- Genius often gets attributed after someone is successful, similar to attribution of charisma post-success.
- Studies cited (Hans Eysenck) overfit random correlates (birth month, gout) to genius, highlighting issues with reverse-engineering success.
9. Genius as a License for Eccentricities
[16:36-18:41]
- Success allows latitude for unconventional or problematic behavior, granting “idiosyncrasy credits”:
“They give you more latitude to deviate from social norms. …we’ll tolerate some of their faults or…vices.” — Adam Grant [16:36] “When you have a lot of money or social status, your opportunities for being weird are kind of greater.” — Helen Lewis [17:38]
- Those around geniuses can become complicit, seeking significance by proximity to greatness, even as they endure mistreatment.
10. Ambivalent Relationships, Groupthink, and the Cost of Proximity
[18:41-22:01]
- Toxic environments around so-called geniuses are perpetuated by the intermittent “reward” of recognition or being close to greatness.
- Real-world reflections: Helen’s experience in a stressful newspaper office and stories of relationships affected by proximity to genius (Picasso, Tolstoy).
11. The Hidden Infrastructure: Wives and Support Systems
[24:30-26:18]
- Focus on unsung contributors—wives, partners, or workers—who enabled geniuses by handling domestic and emotional labor:
“[The] biggest advantage you could possibly have would be somebody to run all the bits of your life that aren't the great work.” — Helen Lewis [25:06]
- The material conditions of genius, such as workspace and freedom from domestic responsibility, reveal how opportunity shapes achievement.
12. Collaboration, Musedom, and Creative Sparks
[26:18-27:41]
- Discussing "the muse” as a concept broader than romance—any person who motivates, challenges, or inspires creation.
- Creative acts often fueled by emotion (desire to impress, rivalry, or “revenge”).
13. Intelligence, Learning, and Domain-Specific Genius
[28:16-29:18]
- Intelligence is the capacity to learn—a necessary but insufficient factor for genius.
- True genius is also about creation, not just mastery of knowledge; domain matters.
14. Creativity Across the Lifespan
[29:10-31:35]
- There's no universal age for peak creativity; math and structured fields may peak young, while writers and artists may peak much later.
“I maintain in myself the conviction that at some point the hot streak is coming.” — Helen Lewis [31:18]
Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)
- “I think it’s healthier to talk about acts of genius than people as geniuses.” — Helen Lewis [01:36]
- “The pressure always from outsiders should be to kind of try and restore the fullness and context to those stories.” — Helen Lewis [02:33]
- “Turning people into these symbols undoubtedly helps them make more money, helps them become more famous… Whether or not it produces more of the kind of work you’d like to see in the world is a slightly more open question.” — Helen Lewis [03:52]
- “The danger of calling someone a genius is not only that it creates this image of them that’s unrealistic, but also I worry a lot about the self image effects, that it goes to their head.” — Adam Grant [05:03]
- “You have to wait for the lightning strike.” — Helen Lewis [07:05]
- “If someone said to you name five people, everyone who kind of agrees are a genius. I find that a lot of them come from the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century.” — Helen Lewis [08:58]
- “The genius myth [is] about valuing people for the wrong things…for big leaps forward, rather than the boring logistics stuff.” — Helen Lewis [11:03]
- “There’s a kind of bias towards successful people obviously, and therefore we shouldn’t overread…to what caused their success.” — Helen Lewis [14:03]
- “Genius transmutes odd into special.” — Helen Lewis [16:36]
- “When you’ve got a lot of money or high social status, your opportunities for being weird are kind of greater.” — Helen Lewis [17:38]
- “All creative acts are driven by either horniness or revenge.” — [Unknown, referenced by Helen Lewis, 26:55]
- “I really love that idea. You just recognize that there are places to be that will allow you to be your maximum self.” — Helen Lewis [28:08]
- “Keeping yourself at the green growing edge.” — Helen Lewis [29:10]
Notable Segments (Timestamps)
- [01:36] Defining acts of genius vs. genius as an identity
- [04:53] Effects of the genius label: ego, humility, narcissism
- [08:20] The role of media, capitalism, and celebrity in constructing genius
- [10:36] Edison, Musk, and the undervaluing of logistical genius
- [14:34] Genius as licensing for eccentric behavior and its societal effects
- [24:30] The unsung influence of spouses and support networks
- [33:58] Lightning round: dream dinner guests and worst talent advice
- [35:53] Advice for child prodigies and adults facing creativity slumps
Lightning Round Highlights
[33:46-36:16]
- Dream dinner guests: Jane Austen, Terry Pratchett, James Baldwin, Leonardo da Vinci (“I was trying to think, of all the Renaissance artists, which one of them was the least mad…”).
- Worst talent advice: “Don’t be too nice”—often interpreted as permission to be unkind; distinguishes between being nice and truly helpful.
- Advice for troubled former prodigies:
“This might be a time to invest in creativity, because mastering rote knowledge and skills is not going to be rewarded as an adult.” — Adam Grant [36:16]
- Reversing privilege: If you’re successful, practice humility by going where no one knows or respects you.
Closing Thought
The episode concludes with a playful, humble nod, reminding us that the Internet—where credentials evaporate—can be a cure for inflated egos.
“You have to go to an environment where people don’t know who you are and don’t respect you. And I’m like, I go there every day. It’s called the Internet.” — Adam Grant [39:14]
In summary:
This episode of ReThinking offers a nuanced, witty, and challenging look at what genius really means—and why our collective stories about it often do more harm than good. Listeners are left with practical takeaways about humility, the recognition of unseen work, and how reframing the notion of genius might foster greater creativity, fairness, and achievement for all.