50 States of Mind

Summary

Reveal Podcast Episode Summary: "50 States of Mind"

Show: Reveal
Host: Al Letson
Episode: 50 States of Mind
Release Date: June 7, 2025

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Introduction to the Distinguished Young Women Competition

"50 States of Mind," an episode from Reveal, delves into the 2022 Distinguished Young Women (DYW) competition held in Mobile, Alabama. Shima Oliayi, an acclaimed reporter and former contestant from 2001, returns as a judge. The competition brings together 50 high school seniors, one from each state, competing for substantial scholarship funds. Shima, along with her production team, captures the unfolding events, setting the stage for an unexpected turn of events.

Shima Oliayi [02:10]: "Hi, I'm Shima Oliayi from Reno, Nevada."

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Arrival and Initial Impressions

Upon arrival, the contestants experience the grandeur and pressure of the competition. The first day involves intense preparations, including costume fittings and rigorous rehearsals. The environment fosters both competition and camaraderie among the young women.

Shima Oliayi [04:10]: "No skin, no skin, no skin, no skin."

Participants share their diverse backgrounds and aspirations, highlighting the competition's prestige and the high caliber of its contestants.

Amy Pham [05:29]: "When you come from a small town, it's so easy to be the best of the best..."

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Behind the Scenes: Rehearsals and Bonding

The initial week is characterized by relentless rehearsals, where contestants bond while preparing their routines. The shared experience fosters friendships and mutual respect, setting a unified tone among the participants.

Shima Oliayi [06:23]: "We’re all very confused on what's going on, but we don't want to be too nosy either..."

Amidst the preparation, the contestants navigate the challenges of performing under pressure, balancing personal ambitions with the support of their peers.

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Breaking News: The Dobbs v. Jackson Decision

As the competition progresses into its second week, a pivotal moment occurs: the Supreme Court announces the overturning of Roe v. Wade, a landmark decision affecting abortion rights nationwide. This news, delivered through a coded message, catches the contestants off guard, intertwining personal emotions with the competitive atmosphere.

Shima Oliayi [11:29]: "The code, which was supposedly info about their sick friend, was really breaking news."

The revelation divides the participants along political lines, revealing underlying tensions and prompting intense emotional responses.

Arizona [17:37]: "I think it just created a divide that we didn't know that we had. It's going to be pretty tough to work through."

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Reactions and Emotional Turmoil

The news catalyzes a spectrum of reactions among the contestants. Some celebrate the decision, aligning with pro-life perspectives, while others mourn the loss of reproductive rights. This schism disrupts the previously harmonious environment, introducing conflict and introspection.

Amy Pham [22:14]: "The Supreme Court doesn't stay there until they turn. I know that there was a lot of protest about Roe v. Wade and the fact that our Supreme Court saw that and still made their own decision. That's what scares me."

Debates emerge within the group, reflecting broader societal divisions and the personal impact of the decision on each contestant's beliefs and values.

Kirtana Ramanathan [20:16]: "This means that the Supreme Court has sent the decision of the abortion issue back to each state to decide, respectively, which is what our founders intended."

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Incorporating Personal Beliefs into Competition

Amidst the turmoil, some contestants choose to integrate their reactions into their competition performances. Arizona and Minnesota, for instance, decide to display the women's symbol on their wrists as a statement against the Supreme Court's decision, blending personal advocacy with the competitive framework.

Minnesota [16:35]: "In my senior year of high school, I learned that everyone truly has their own unique story, making everyone's voice important."

This act of defiance serves as a powerful message, highlighting the intersection of personal conviction and public representation within the competition.

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Final Moments and Aftermath of the Decision

As the competition approaches its culmination, the emotional weight of the Supreme Court decision lingers. Contestants grapple with balancing their competitive ambitions with the pressing social and political realities affecting their generation.

Arizona [35:26]: "We may be teenagers, but we are still able to portray a message if we try."

The episode concludes by reflecting on the lasting impact of these events on the contestants' lives and their ongoing roles as advocates and leaders in their communities.

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Post-Competition Reflections and Continued Activism

Following the competition, Shima Oliayi reconnects with several contestants to explore how the events have influenced their subsequent paths. Amy Pham engages in academic discourse on abortion as a social issue, while Caitlin Kai reflects on the necessity of understanding and trust across political divides.

Amy Pham [40:49]: "I've never thought about abortion before DYW... I just had so much to say about it."

Salma Barragan participates in activism at the U.S. Mexico border, demonstrating the competition's role in shaping her commitment to social causes.

Salma Barragan [42:55]: "That trip was the longest I've been away from home by myself... I felt a little bit more prepared for life."

Caitlin Kai's journalistic endeavors emphasize bridging gaps in understanding and fostering trust, underscoring the competition's influence on her worldview.

Caitlin Kai [45:34]: "We make a conscious effort to trust people who I'm not naturally inclined to trust... the world is a better place when we're not [cynical]."

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Conclusion: Lasting Impact of "50 States of Mind"

"50 States of Mind" captures a critical moment where personal ambitions intersect with national issues, illustrating how young women navigate and influence the sociopolitical landscape. Through authentic storytelling and in-depth reporting, Reveal highlights the resilience and agency of the next generation in shaping a more inclusive and understanding America.

Shima Oliayi [50:18]: "To Caitlin and Salma and Amy and all the girls of DYW, thank you for reminding me we can grow up, we can even change, and the journey can be joyful."

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Notable Quotes:

• Shima Oliayi [03:03]: "But the story she got was not what she expected."
• Amy Pham [08:32]: "That's Amy from Tennessee. But tonight, it's the semifinals. The show will begin with 50 possible winners, and by the end of the night, that number will be down to eight."
• Al Letson [17:20]: "The girls are distracted. Some are ecstatic. Others feel betrayed."

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Further Exploration

For those interested in the full depth of this compelling story, Shima Oliayi's six-part podcast series, "The Competition," is available on all major podcast platforms. This series offers an immersive experience into the lives of these young women and the broader implications of pivotal national decisions on their futures.

Transcript

[Shima Oliayi]

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[Al Letson]

From the center for Investigative Reporting in prx, this is Reveal. I'm Al Letson.

[Shima Oliayi]

Okay, I'm officially almost late to the airport.

[Al Letson]

It's an early summer morning in 2022. Reporter Shima Oliayi is rushing out of her apartment in New York City to get to the airport.

[Shima Oliayi]

I'm still at home. And we're packing up jewelry on top of all this. I don't know, man. This is a lot.

[Al Letson]

Hi.

[Shima Oliayi]

That was the 5:00am bell.

[Al Letson]

She makes it to JFK, but hi.

[Shima Oliayi]

Hey. So I missed my flight. Oh, my God.

[Al Letson]

That's Shima's mom.

[Shima Oliayi]

Remember, life sucks and then you die.

[Al Letson]

Shima needs to make it to Mobile, Alabama, where she'll be attending a competition that's been around almost 70 years.

[Shima Oliayi]

From mobile, Alabama, it's the America's Junior miss pageant, featuring 50 of the most outstanding young women in the nation.

[Al Letson]

It used to be called America's Junior Miss, and for decades, it was carried live on TV.

[Shima Oliayi]

Have you ever seen 50 brighter smiles in all your life?

[Al Letson]

Winners got written up in the New York Times, appeared on talk shows, and even went to the White House.

[Shima Oliayi]

Mr. President, this is Junior Misael Bay.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

Hi.

[Al Letson]

These days, the competition is called Distinguished young women, or DYW. And at the end of this month, 50 high school seniors, one from each state, will compete for scholarship money for college. We aired this story last year, but we're bringing it back to kick off the summer. Our guide is reporter Shima Oliayi, who was a contestant herself in 2001.

[Shima Oliayi]

Hi, I'm Shim Oliayi from Reno, Nevada.

[Amy Pham]

And I love to swim with my.

[Shima Oliayi]

Team and family in the beautiful waters of Lake tahoe.

[Al Letson]

And in 2022, she was invited back to be a judge.

[Shima Oliayi]

Okay, so first off, I didn't know if I wanted to go back because when I was there the first time, I lost. And also the program, it's a little pageanty, and I'm a journalist now. I didn't even know if I wanted anyone to know I did this, but the thought of being able to hear directly from young women at this time felt really important. So I told them, yes, I'll be a judge, but may I send two producers down to record everything behind the scenes. And luckily they said yes.

[Al Letson]

But the story she got was not what she expected. In the final days of the competition, there was news from Washington that had big implications for women across the nation. These 50 girls had to make sense of it all, with Shima and her team capturing everything in real time. It's all in a six part podcast Shima made in collaboration with Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, called the competition.

[Shima Oliayi]

This series changed how I view America. I came away from it thinking, damn, American teen girls are the canaries in the coal mine.

[Al Letson]

Today we're going to hear what it was like to be in mobile for those two crazy weeks which started off like any other DYW competition.

[Shima Oliayi]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome on board flight 4B7.

[Al Letson]

The girls arrive at the airport in Mobile and immediately size each other up.

[Amy Pham]

She definitely was someone that all the girls were keeping their eye on.

[Caitlin Kai]

So intimidated. I was like, oh, my God, there's a winner right there.

[Shima Oliayi]

The first day is really overwhelming for the girls. So you're coming down the escalators. All these residents in Mobile are cheering for you. Press is taking photos every minute. Then you're shuttled away into this private location for orientation. There's fittings. Girls have to try on their costumes and outfits in front of each other. It's a vulnerable situation. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to raise your arms up like this. I'm just checking for Tommy, that's all.

[Amy Pham]

It can be intimidating having to put on an outfit, run into a room and about four ladies look at you and be like, this doesn't fit right. You see any skin?

[Shima Oliayi]

No skin, no skin, no skin, no skin.

[Al Letson]

As a judge, Shima immerses herself with the girls.

[Shima Oliayi]

I had to study them, like, in my role as a judge. So it's 50 teens. They are the best and brightest from across the country. There's Minnesota, who, who just one of her dreams is to cure cancer. Pennsylvania, she's whatever is a couple steps past a black belt in karate. Illinois is a renowned flutist who's performed with the Chicago Symphony. And Colorado should already be on Broadway. It's intimidating. Like a United nations of teen girls.

[Amy Pham]

When you come from a small town, it's so easy to be the best of the best. And like, oh, I'm cheer captain, I'm senior class president, I'm president of four other things. But these girls are president of eight other things and they run a business. So it kind of humbles you and opens your eyes to like, you're not always Going to be the best of the best.

[Shima Oliayi]

That's Tennessee's contestant, Amy Pham. She's the daughter of Vietnamese immigrants and wants to become a lawyer. Then you have Caitlin Rook, a ballerina turned politician.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

If I am elected, I'll be the second youngest legislator in the country.

[Shima Oliayi]

She's the Republican nominee up for a seat in the Montana legislature. Then there's Salma Bedigan from New Mexico. On top of getting straight A's, she's been working since age 13 to help her mom pay the rent. She wasn't even supposed to be at nationals, but the winner from her state program couldn't make it, and she was the runner up. What was rehearsal like that first day?

[Salma Barragan]

I was overwhelmed. People already knew their choreography or were amazing at it, and I was barely, like, getting by.

[Al Letson]

The girls spent the first seven days getting ready for the formal competition. Every day they get up at dawn and rehearse until the sun sets. They spend every waking hour together. They bond.

[Shima Oliayi]

Stand by, we're rolling. One, two, three. We are ready to party.

[Al Letson]

And then at the start of the second week, things get more serious.

[Shima Oliayi]

Yeah, it's at this point where girls really start to feel the pressure. Like, if you don't know the steps of the fitness routine, you are screwed. I can't remember any, like, the order of anything to save my life.

[Al Letson]

Towards the end of the two weeks, it's the semifinals. The girls have no idea that the big news from Washington is about to turn everything upside down. That's where we pick up the story with Shima during rehearsal.

[Shima Oliayi]

I'm so slap happy right now. It's the second to last day of the competition.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

I'm feeling tired.

[Shima Oliayi]

You know what I mean, guys?

[Caitlin Kai]

I am.

[Shima Oliayi]

The pressure is really on now. You might expect the girls to be steely and silent, laser focused, but that's not exactly the vibe in rehearsal.

[Amy Pham]

So she currently has an Oreo on her face and she's trying to slide it down to get in her mouth without it dropping to the floor.

[Shima Oliayi]

Open your mouth.

[Amy Pham]

Friendships are just at an all time high. You double check if you accidentally brought your phone. You just hand it to your mom.

[Shima Oliayi]

And say, I had an ooze. Even head mom Carol telling them to hand over their cell phones. Can't break the vibe.

[Caitlin Kai]

Why are you so amazing?

[Arizona]

I want to be you guys.

[Shima Oliayi]

Don't want to be vibe. I want to be you.

[Amy Pham]

I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, like, anywhere I looked, all of them were my friends. At that point, there wasn't a state Or a girl that I wasn't comfortable with.

[Shima Oliayi]

That's Amy from Tennessee. But tonight, it's the semifinals. The show will begin with 50 possible winners, and by the end of the night, that number will be down to eight. Yet for the moment, they're all here together, rehearsing one last new routine as a group.

[Caitlin Kai]

We're just going to take out the.

[Shima Oliayi]

First one of these.

[Al Letson]

Slide, bump, bump, slide.

[Shima Oliayi]

In rehearsal, the girls are scattered around the stage, still practicing their closing number.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

And so I was sitting on the third row of the bleachers on stage left, and one of our day moms peeks her head out.

[Shima Oliayi]

Day moms are volunteers who help out. Caitlin from Montana sees one of them in the wings.

[Caitlin Kai]

She goes, caitlyn, is Lydia anywhere?

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

There's a message for her.

[Shima Oliayi]

The mom is searching for Lydia from Kansas. I wouldn't deliver bad news, but they told me to give to her as soon as possible.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

And so Lydia ran off stage into the wing. And I can see her reading something off of our day mom's phone. And then Lydia turns around and gives me two big thumbs up. And I take that as the sign that we got the news we were hoping for.

[Shima Oliayi]

Kansas runs towards Montana.

[Amy Pham]

So I'm on stage.

[Shima Oliayi]

All right, walk into the diamond. Five, six, ready, walk one.

[Amy Pham]

And we're doing our number.

[Shima Oliayi]

Tennessee's in the middle of blocking the routine when she sees something going on with Montana and Kansas.

[Amy Pham]

And then out of the corner of my eye, I see just this big commotion. And Caitlin and Lydia are hugging each other.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

We're trying to not be too obnoxious. We're trying to contain our excitement.

[Amy Pham]

And then there's tears.

[Salma Barragan]

She's just crying hysterically.

[Shima Oliayi]

Montana and Kansas are both standing there crying as a few girls look on.

[Amy Pham]

I can't believe that. That's so incredible.

[Caitlin Kai]

I get off the stage for something, and I see Montana, like, sobbing. And I'm like, what is going on? And Pennsylvania's trying to comfort her. And I'm like, okay, what is happening right now?

[Shima Oliayi]

Happy, happy, happy news. Yay. God is very good.

[Amy Pham]

God is very, very, very, very, very good.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

Someone's cancer.

[Caitlin Kai]

People were saying that, like, either, like, a friend or family member is, like, cancer free. And I'm like, oh, okay, good. That's amazing.

[Amy Pham]

That's what she's. I give you a hug, and I am just doing my own thing, Tennessee. And then I hear little whispers. People are freaking out. And so now I'm interested. I walk over to a group. I couldn't even tell you who. And I Asked them, so what are we all freaking out about? So apparently Lydia, that's Kansas, had some type of, like, code that she got sent.

[Shima Oliayi]

The code, which was supposedly info about their sick friend, was really breaking news. The Supreme Court had just issued their Dobbs v. Jackson decision on abortion rights.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

Lydia came up with the code of, we're renaming Roe v. Wade.

[Shima Oliayi]

Jennifer, that's Montana.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

And Jennifer is either going to go to the emergency room if Roe v. Wade didn't get overturned, or Jennifer's cancer free if Roe v. Wade did get overturned.

[Shima Oliayi]

Of course Roe v. Wade did get overturned. The mom who was delivering the news must have had no idea about the secret code.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

We know that not everyone believes the same on this very contentious issue. It's an issue very near and dear to our heart. So we wanted to know. But in case anyone else felt completely opposite or didn't want to know, we just wanted to be respectful of everyone here.

[Shima Oliayi]

So, yeah, you put it very nicely. Yes, Tennessee is taking all this in.

[Amy Pham]

I was just like, this is tea. Like, that is wild like that. It was, like, sent through code. That was the thing on my mind.

[Shima Oliayi]

The news starts to spread.

[Caitlin Kai]

It was more of like a very fast group game of telephone. You know, it just like, beep, beep, bop, bop.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

I think Lydia might have told a couple people and I might have told a couple people.

[Shima Oliayi]

And one of the people Montana told was New Mexico.

[Salma Barragan]

We're all very confused on what's going on, but we don't want to be, like, too nosy either. But I mean, if you see somebody crying hysterically, you kind of want to know what happened. So I go over to Caitlyn and I ask her what's wrong, and she kind of just tells me. She's like, yes, everything's fine. Roe v. Wade got overturned. And she just kind of started crying to me, but happy. So I kind of looked at her and I was like, okay, I'm gonna go ahead and remove myself from the situation just because I don't want to do anything I'll regret.

[Shima Oliayi]

Most of the girls still haven't heard the news. They're all gathered together in the lobby to meet with a few former national winners, what they call has beens.

[Amy Pham]

And one of the has beens gets.

[Shima Oliayi]

Up in front of us, 2018's national winner, Ariane Morrison. I step up, I introduce myself. And I said, I also just want to acknowledge that in light of today's Supreme Court decision, I want you all to know that I'm a resource. I'm a support. I can't make things better. I can't offer words of encouragement, but at least I can mourn and be angry with you. Which is when it dawns on Ariana that a lot of the girls do not know what she's talking about. A lot of girls look at each other and then one girl goes, what are you talking about? We don't have our phones. Arizona is one of the girls who still has no clue.

[Tennessee]

And I was like, what Supreme Court decision? Like, what is she talking about?

[Shima Oliayi]

Tennessee.

[Amy Pham]

And I'm looking around and I instantly feel a shift in the room. And you could just feel the energy change.

[Shima Oliayi]

I couldn't help but think how if any of the girls in that room had not made it to nationals, they would have experienced this moment so differently back home with their friends, their families, people who likely felt like they did when they heard the news. Instead, they were trapped in what must have been the only place in America where that day, one girl from every state was forced to face this decision together in real time.

[Al Letson]

Up next, how the Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe v. Wade suddenly changes the dynamics at the competition.

[Arizona]

I think it just created a divide that we didn't know that we had. It's going to be pretty tough to work through.

[Al Letson]

You're listening to Reveal. Hey, this is Michael Montgomery, a producer and reporter at Reveal. And I'm talking to our genuine fans out there. You never miss an episode. Maybe you're rocking the T shirt right now. You know who you are. Well, the show you love is nonprofit and listener supported, which means we need fans like you to become members. Just text the word give to 88857 reveal. That's 888-577-3832 or visit revealnews.org donate a gift of any amount says you care about this show. From the center for Investigative Reporting and prx, this is Reveal. I'm Aletson. Today we're bringing back a story from Shima Oliai, host of the six part podcast series the Competition. It's just hours before the 2022 Distinguished Young Women's Semifinals. In any other year, the girls will be laser focused on getting ready. They'd be practicing their routines, memorizing their lines, calming their nerves. But right now, the vibe is off. The girls are distracted. Some are ecstatic. Others feel betrayed. Most of them are unable to think about anything but the news that the Supreme Court is has just overturned Roe v. Wade. Shima picks up the story.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

I have no idea where the moms are.

[Shima Oliayi]

That's Montana.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

It's Just all sitting in the lobby processing everything.

[Shima Oliayi]

Quickly. After hearing the news, the girls start splitting up into groups.

[Caitlin Kai]

We got, like, very distinct groups.

[Shima Oliayi]

California, a lot of the states that.

[Caitlin Kai]

Were more left leaning, and then a smaller group to the side of, like, I think those who are, like, pretty right leaning and, like, vocal about it.

[Shima Oliayi]

Picture a big civic center lobby. Conservative girls on one side, liberal girls on the other. And in the middle, a bunch of girls who feel torn or don't know where to go or who to turn to.

[Arizona]

I come from a really conservative family, Maryland, conservative religion. But they always let me have my own opinion, which I'm just grateful for. And I just try and reward everyone else. The same respect that my family gave me.

[Shima Oliayi]

They should have just never said it at all. Colorado is worried about how the added stress is going to weigh on the girls. I didn't want it to affect people's mental health because this was already mentally taxing in the first place. And now you're adding this news on top of it.

[Arizona]

I think I just created a divide that we didn't know that we had. And it's gonna be pretty tough to work through, especially when emotions are running so high. So I hope that everyone can keep it in, but I don't know.

[Shima Oliayi]

The girls now see something in each other, these deeper differences that they didn't before, or at least they could pretend they didn't before.

[Caitlin Kai]

Something that we avoided, or at least some have tried to avoid. California, because it's hard when to, like, start talking about it. You can obviously, like, have those conversations and, like, they're not charged with, like, violence and anger, but, like, it's. It's harder to then get back to being, like, friends and happy and good again.

[Shima Oliayi]

Some of the girls, like Tennessee, were still struggling to understand what the decision even meant and why so many of the girls were so upset.

[Amy Pham]

I feel out of the loop. Like, I feel as if everyone knows what's going on and I don't. I couldn't even choose which side I was on. You know, I really just want to know why everyone's so upset so I can comfort them.

[Shima Oliayi]

Tennessee turns to the girls in the liberal circle and starts asking questions.

[Amy Pham]

I was like, okay, so, like, what. What's happening? Like, what does overturned mean? What is Roe v. Wade being overturned?

[Arizona]

So have you heard of the Supreme Court case, Roe v. Wade?

[Amy Pham]

Yeah, I know the term overturned.

[Arizona]

Women have lost all the repours, okay?

[Shima Oliayi]

But Robi Trithina from Minnesota starts to.

[Arizona]

Explain what it means when something's overturned is. Means that a Case came up in Mississippi that said that women cannot have abortions after a certain time period that went from the state court to the court of appeals to the supreme court. And they were like, mississippi, you're okay. You can take away women's rights.

[Amy Pham]

And so they're talking about how terrifying it is and how upsetting it is that they just lost the rights to their body. And so I kind of get it now. I sit there and I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess we did just lose the right to that.

[Shima Oliayi]

On the other side of the room, another girl walks up to the conservative girls and asks Montana to explain the decision. So what does this mean?

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

This means that the supreme court has sent the decision of the abortion issue back to each state to decide, respectively, which is what our founders intended.

[Shima Oliayi]

She's saying it's now up to each state to decide what to do about abortion, which to her is how it should be. Yes, each state will get to choose. Montana's politics can't be separated from a personal story. She and her brother were both adopted.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

My family is very passionately pro life just because of everything that we've been through as a family.

[Shima Oliayi]

So were you guys both adopted as, like, infants?

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

Yes.

[Shima Oliayi]

Yeah. Did your parents ever tell you about the process of adopting?

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

Yeah, they've told me a little bit about it. I mean, it's a complicated process, but with the circumstances of my conception and my brother, there's a very high chance that we could have been one of those babies who never got to live. It's like our birth mothers made that very selfless decision to give us life that so many other children didn't get.

[Shima Oliayi]

She's part of an organization called Students for Life, whose mission is to, quote, recruit, train, and mobilize the pro life generation to abolish abortion. They supported her campaign for state legislature, and this decision could be a great omen for her upcoming campaign.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

How this is going to affect my race in the midterms. Legislators are probably calling me. SFL's probably calling.

[Shima Oliayi]

You know, they are.

[Caitlin Kai]

You know, they are fun.

[Shima Oliayi]

Montana saying Students for Life is probably going to fly her from Mobile to D.C. to celebrate.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

I literally would have been there right now if I wasn't here.

[Amy Pham]

And I'm like, a little bit heartbroken, but it's okay.

[Shima Oliayi]

On the other side of the room, the mood is grim. The liberal girls start talking about the Supreme Court. How could this have happened in the first place? Why don't they have term amendments?

[Amy Pham]

The Supreme Court doesn't stay there until they turn. I know that there was a lot of protest about Roe v. Wade and the fact that our Supreme Court saw that and still made their own decision. That's what scares me.

[Shima Oliayi]

You know, this is the thing that baffles Tennessee. She knows that the majority of people in the country support the right to choose. That's the popular opinion. But the court doesn't seem to care.

[Amy Pham]

And that just makes you think of what else in the future are they going to ignore in order to make the decisions that they want to make? You know, it's kind of scary that, knowing that we really don't have a lot of say when it comes to, like, our government. If you think about it, one in.

[Arizona]

Four women have to face a situation regarding abortion, like, literally in the. In their lifetime. That's a crazy statistic because, like, for.

[Shima Oliayi]

Me especially, that's Minnesota, the one who was explaining the decision earlier to Tennessee. She's thought a lot about this.

[Arizona]

There's 50 of us here. Just do the math. What's one in four? And now put all of those girls at risk for literally dying.

[Shima Oliayi]

Because, like, for me, by Minnesota's math, that's at least 12 of the girls in the lobby. But while she's mourning that some girls are still celebrating, this girl's crying from.

[Tennessee]

Joy in the back.

[Arizona]

And, like, though I respect people's opinions, I can't talk to you today, please.

[Tennessee]

A lot of the girls were crying, and I never seen any of them cry before. Like, Alabama, Minnesota, Arizona. I think I was just numb. I feel like I'm generally a very rational person. And so my first thought is, like, we shouldn't panic. Like, we haven't read the actual decision. Like, we don't know what the parameters are. Like, yes.

[Shima Oliayi]

Arizona was speech and debate captain in high school. She spent six years debating all kinds of controversial topics. So she's used to having to intellectualize really messy issues.

[Tennessee]

And I had never really been in that many spaces where emotion was acceptable before. I guess in that moment, I realized, like, the power of emotions. I was feeling it so much from the girls around me, and something in me just shifted. And then I burst in tears and couldn't stop crying.

[Shima Oliayi]

Back in the lobby, some of the girls are still crying. We have about 30 minutes if you would like to go upstairs to your.

[Arizona]

Dressing rooms and start getting beautiful and more beautiful than you already are.

[Shima Oliayi]

Time to wipe up the tears and keep going.

[Caitlin Kai]

They're like, all right, back at it, girls.

[Shima Oliayi]

California.

[Caitlin Kai]

And I'm like, what? I think that it was a very fast turnaround process. Of like hearing it, grappling with it, and then having to be on again.

[Shima Oliayi]

The girls shuffle out of the lobby and head backstage to put their competition faces back on for the semifinals. It's just about time to start competing against each other again.

[Caitlin Kai]

Like, we care about the competition, but it's also like at the end of the day, like, what are we doing? Like, we're putting on little like balloon dresses and dancing in our heels. I don't know, it's just like, okay, gotta get back to whatever this is.

[Shima Oliayi]

Now, California and the rest of the girls might do as they're told. They'll go put their makeup and dresses on. But that doesn't mean they're about to fall in line and just get on with the show. After a very long day, we've arrived at the semifinals. The results from tonight will determine which eight girls will compete in the finale. Here's how it'll work. DYW's auditors, yeah, they have those guys, like the Oscars, had already tabulated the girls scores for scholastics and interviews. So tonight there's just fitness, talent and self expression.

[Caitlin Kai]

Self expression is.

[Arizona]

That is like there is no one's game.

[Shima Oliayi]

Two hours before showtime, each girl received the question she'll have to answer on stage. And now they're obsessively rehearsing their answers.

[Jennifer]

Next time you're in line at Starbucks.

[Shima Oliayi]

You can thank me for your $7 coffee.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

Esther Vander, Washington, you had a great opener and a great closer and I.

[Caitlin Kai]

Liked your hand motion for apples and potatoes.

[Shima Oliayi]

But not all of them are able to shove aside their feelings and focus. Everyone, I think today is especially feeling down because of what it means for.

[Caitlin Kai]

Our futures and the fact that they.

[Shima Oliayi]

Took away our choice as women. And we're in this program trying to.

[Caitlin Kai]

Advocate for that and empower women. But it's hard to do that when.

[Shima Oliayi]

Our nation is taking away these things.

[Caitlin Kai]

Sorry.

[Shima Oliayi]

All day I'd been wondering if any of the girls would address the Dobbs decision in their self expression answers. Or if they were wondering, can I even do that without harming my chances of winning some money here? As judges, DYW asks us to separate our political views from our scores. But the girls must know that we're human and probably have thoughts on the matter. All of that was hanging over me as I entered the Mobile Civic center. And even as a judge, it felt a little distressing to be going on with the show. But that's what we're here to do. So we all stick with the program and try to focus on the task at hand.

[Jennifer]

Hi. Thank you.

[Shima Oliayi]

Hello.

[Jennifer]

Good evening. Welcome. Are we ready to dive in?

[Shima Oliayi]

Let's meet the judges.

[Jennifer]

Shima Oliai has been recognized with several national awards, including a George Foster Peabody Award. Shima represented her home state of Nevada in our two 2001 national finals. So please welcome Shima Oliay.

[Shima Oliayi]

I will say this Mobile, Alabama really turns out for dyw. All the girls had been written up by the local paper that morning with advertisements for tickets, and it's a packed house behind us.

[Jennifer]

We're so excited to get this evening started. And one of those reasons is that at the end of tonight's show, we will be presenting the first round of preliminary awards and get one step closer to our 65th National Finals. Tomorrow evening.

[Shima Oliayi]

We watch the girls do their fitness routines. It looks as brutal and chaotic as I remember. Arizona even accidentally kicks New Mexico in the head. We watch extraordinary talents, flautists and dancers and a speed painter. And then, as the evening wears on, the girls finally don their self expression outfits. One at a time, they walk to the center of the stage and stand in front of the mic.

[Jennifer]

What is something new you learned about.

[Shima Oliayi]

Yourself during your senior year?

[Amy Pham]

My senior year taught me many valuable lessons. However, the first one that comes to mind is that I am not stuck.

[Arizona]

I was astounded to find out that I actually could skate without falling.

[Amy Pham]

When you feel like life slaps you in the face, just remember that God has a plan for you. Your life.

[Shima Oliayi]

All night, not one girl says anything about the decision either for or against.

[Arizona]

Except I knew from the get go I was going to talk about abortion.

[Shima Oliayi]

This is Kirtan Ramanathan from Minnesota. She's the one who explained the news to Tennessee earlier in the day. When I was at the competition, I remember the issue of abortion access felt really distant from me. Like I didn't think I knew anyone who had had an abortion. But you had a really clear understanding of how you felt. Where did that come from?

[Arizona]

It came from knowing about it from a medical perspective.

[Shima Oliayi]

Minnesota's planning to go to med school, so she spent a bunch of time in high school volunteering at a hospital and shadowing a doctor.

[Arizona]

You know, I've seen women who come in ecstatic about their pregnancy. I've seen women who come in scared. And with all those experiences, I learned that to be forced to bring a child into this world and know what their life is going to be like because you don't have the financial ability to care for them, I think is a violation of every human right under this planet.

[Shima Oliayi]

When it's her turn, Minnesota steps up to the mic and looks out at the crowd.

[Jennifer]

What is something new you learned about yourself during your senior year?

[Arizona]

My heart is beating so fast, I'm sweating. I'm hoping my sweat doesn't show on the big screen. But I keep telling myself, if you're going to have any opportunity to speak to so many women right now in your life, this is it. And I didn't give myself another second to think. I just took a breath and I started. In my senior year of high school, I learned that everyone truly has their own unique story, making everyone's voice important. In light of the new Supreme Court decision this morning, I find this to be more important than ever. I plan to use my voice, shaped by my own unique story, to advocate for the rights of women everywhere. Because the choices that we make define our stories. Kirtana Ramanathan, Minnesota.

[Shima Oliayi]

As Minnesota walks off stage, other girls warm up for talent. Soon it'll be Arizona's turn. She's going to do a dance routine but has an injured foot and is feeling insecure.

[Tennessee]

I've thought this is my weakest portion of competition. The whole time, people told me that I'm a great technical dancer, but I.

[Jennifer]

Struggle to emote dancing to this woman's work. Here is Caitlin Kai from Arizona.

[Shima Oliayi]

Arizona takes her spot center stage.

[Tennessee]

I couldn't continue on as normal. Like in my brain, there was pre the decision and post the decision, and I was just different after I knew. So I might as well use it to express myself in a way that feels true to me and true to the way that I'm feeling.

[Shima Oliayi]

I have to say, you could see the feeling as she danced. She looked strong and confident, not at all like someone who has trouble conveying emotion. And there was something else, too, something drawn on the palm of her right hand.

[Tennessee]

I sharpied just like the female gender sign on my hand, more for me than anybody else.

[Shima Oliayi]

And when she steps forward for her.

[Jennifer]

Final pose, I was supposed to have my hands go up and then throw them down to my sides. But I chose to change the routine because of what I had written on my hand. So I end with my hand forward like this and one hand on my heart.

[Shima Oliayi]

She's holding the women symbol out to the audience. And the look on her face, I.

[Tennessee]

Think it was the emotion that I felt, but also just the collective emotion. Like I've never experienced something like that.

[Shima Oliayi]

Watching from the wings, several of the girls see Arizona's final pose. And backstage, they crowd around her.

[Arizona]

That was so cool.

[Caitlin Kai]

I want to draw it.

[Shima Oliayi]

Oh, oh, oh. Can I have another one? One grabs a sharpie and draws the women's symbol on her wrist. Then another, they start passing the sharpie around.

[Caitlin Kai]

And then, like, people are, like, lining up California and coming to the sharpie to get the symbol.

[Jennifer]

Are we doing wrist or fists?

[Salma Barragan]

I was kind of like, here's my hand. Like, give me the pen. Like, let me write it right now.

[Shima Oliayi]

New Mexico doesn't think twice about joining.

[Salma Barragan]

In, and all of the girls are passing around the marker and making sure that we all have that symbol in our hand, except for the ones that are happy about this ruling.

[Shima Oliayi]

One of the backstage moms tunes into what's going on. She comes up behind New Mexico, who, drawing furiously with a sharpie and grabs it out of her hand. No, she literally just took it out of s hand.

[Salma Barragan]

She's very upset with us.

[Caitlin Kai]

Like, angry. She, like, snatches the sharpie and just, like, walks away. And then we're like, okay, you. And then we used eyeliner.

[Shima Oliayi]

Honestly, this is what they should be expecting, getting, like, the most political girls around the country in one place. Once they have the symbol on their wrists, the next question is, what do we do? Now a handful of girls start forming a plan.

[Arizona]

Right hand, right hand.

[Shima Oliayi]

Just put your right hand up at the end. Show your wrist.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

Can you draw that?

[Shima Oliayi]

Arizona tells the girls that she and Minnesota will signal when to lift their fists to the audience once they're all on stage for the final bow. When they say goodnight, everyone got it?

[Amy Pham]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

We have to wait until the teleprompter.

[Amy Pham]

Runs dry because we don't want to.

[Jennifer]

Take away from anybody's awareness.

[Shima Oliayi]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

Feeling.

[Shima Oliayi]

Good night.

[Al Letson]

Good night.

[Shima Oliayi]

Up high.

[Amy Pham]

Straight up high.

[Arizona]

Up high.

[Shima Oliayi]

Across the wings. Word reaches Tennessee.

[Amy Pham]

They're telling us to draw a women's symbol on our wrist. And before the curtains come down, like, raise your wrist as our way of saying we respect women's rights and we think that Roe v. Wade being overturned goes against that.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

There were some girls who don't share my same view on the issue and who were kind of upset.

[Shima Oliayi]

Montana, There's a number of girls back.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

There that I'm talking with. It's like, no. Why would we do that? That sounds really stupid to us. We're supposed to be on stage as 50 distinguished young women. So let's, like, not put on any political displays of our own opinions.

[Amy Pham]

There was definitely just two different vibes going on backstage. Some people are snickering about it, and some people like myself, just wanted to stay out of it.

[Shima Oliayi]

When the girls with their sharpied cymbals reach their spots on the risers, they each look out over the crowd, smiling, waiting for the signal. Thank you all for being an amazing audience and supporters of these young women. And we can't wait to see you back here tomorrow night.

[Jennifer]

See you tomorrow.

[Shima Oliayi]

Thank you and good night. Bye. The teleprompter runs dry. That's their cue. Minnesota punches her fist up into the sky alongside Arizona, Colorado, California, and New Mexico, with other girls following suit.

[Amy Pham]

There are some girls just smiling and waving, Tennessee. And then there are some girls who are standing firm.

[Tennessee]

I think it was also really powerful to have so many of us do it.

[Shima Oliayi]

Arizona.

[Tennessee]

Cause it was like, you can't take out everybody.

[Caitlin Kai]

Once we raised our hands, the curtain closed so fast.

[Shima Oliayi]

California, they were like, pull the curtain.

[Caitlin Kai]

And, like, it just shut on us.

[Shima Oliayi]

A bunch of people in the crowd are cheering. A bunch are not.

[Amy Pham]

I didn't want DYW to turn into a very political thing where, like, we seem like all these girls seem divided, and I don't want to be defined by this one moment.

[Shima Oliayi]

It's been a day for Tennessee. Just hours ago, she was so happy about what great friends they'd all become. She was hoping they could hang on to that, that she could choose both sides upset nobody. But that's not always possible.

[Amy Pham]

Then when it actually comes down to it, I half raised my wrist, so I probably look stupid. I should have just done it all the way or kept my hand down.

[Shima Oliayi]

For the girls who did raise their hands, it's a victory, however small.

[Arizona]

We may be teenagers, but we are still able to portray a message if we try.

[Salma Barragan]

If there was any way that I wanted to close tonight, this is the perfect way to do it, to, like, really stand for what I believe in. So it is probably the best way moment in this entire experience, for sure.

[Caitlin Kai]

I think this is definitely one of my favorite moments of the competition. Just because it wasn't about the competition. It was about something bigger than diw, bigger than, like, ourselves. Even though, like, it wasn't, like, a mass of, like, thousands of people protests, like, was something.

[Shima Oliayi]

It might seem like a small thing, but after two weeks of following every rule, having every moment planned, they chose to go off script. None of them knew how it would affect them here, but they did it anyway.

[Salma Barragan]

It just makes me feel like we're really distinguished from women. This matters to us.

[Al Letson]

The competition is almost over. Tomorrow, the winner will be chosen by the judges. Then she, along with the Rest of the girls will head home and eventually onto college. But what just happened will linger with many of the girls and even change the trajectory of their lives.

[Jennifer]

Because of dyw and after dyw, I make a conscious effort to trust people who I am not naturally inclined to trust.

[Al Letson]

That's next on Reveal. From the center for Investigative Reporting and prx, this is Reveal. I'm Al Ledson. The day after some of the girls protested about the Supreme Court decision, Shima Oiayi and the other judges watched the top eight scorers compete for one last time. And then.

[Jennifer]

Okay. The winner of a $40,000 cash scholarship in our 65th Distinguished Young Woman of America is.

[Al Letson]

Nope. We're not going to tell you who won. If you want to know, you have to listen to Shima's six part podcast series, the Competition. But we are going to tell you what happened after. In the months and years after those two weeks in Mobile, Shima stayed in touch with the girls, even visited some of them. She wanted to know how they would doing in college and if what happened at the DYW competition changed them. Her first stop was in Knoxville to see Amy Pham.

[Amy Pham]

Tennessee.

[Shima Oliayi]

When I visited Amy, she'd moved away from home and was attending college at the University of Tennessee.

[Amy Pham]

This is like my best friend. This is an eyelash curler and it does wonders. So watch.

[Shima Oliayi]

We were in Amy's dorm room when she told me about a presentation she was about to Give in Sociology 101 on an issue she didn't know much about when she was at dyw.

[Amy Pham]

Okay, y' all, so today we're going to be talking about abortion as a social problem and Ben's going to take it over with.

[Shima Oliayi]

So why did you rank abortion number one?

[Amy Pham]

I think I had the most to say about it.

[Shima Oliayi]

Why?

[Amy Pham]

I've never thought about abortion before dyw. Like, I had an answer ready in case y' all asked me. But like, I sound so ignorant, but I was like wondering why girls were crying. But then I was like, Amy, you sound like an idiot because, like, our rights just got taken away. Of course they're going to cry about it, you know, and that's when I was just like, that does not feel right to me. And I just had so much to say about it. Because there's a gray area that people aren't addressing. They're just like one way or the other, pro life approach was. But it's more than that.

[Shima Oliayi]

At the competition, Amy found herself balancing her ambition to be the best and her need to be liked. But she's starting to think about that a little differently.

[Amy Pham]

Like, presidents get hated on, governors get hated on, but these are the decision makers. So when you have haters, that's how you know you made it.

[Salma Barragan]

Salma Barragan, New Mexico.

[Shima Oliayi]

Salma Barragan got a full ride to New Mexico State University. We met up with her at the U. S. Mexico border at an event called Hugs Not Wall. In November of 2022, the US government temporarily opened up a border patrol area to allow families to reunite for three minutes at a time. Salma volunteered there along with her mom, helping organize and guide families throughout the day.

[Salma Barragan]

Did you hear that little girl screaming mom?

[Shima Oliayi]

Across the border?

[Salma Barragan]

That's crazy. Love you, Mommy.

[Shima Oliayi]

Her mom's volunteered at this event before, but this is the first time Salma participated. Why did you decide to participate this year?

[Salma Barragan]

I've gone to protest, but this one was, like, very, very challenging. And I think I was finally able to do it because I'm a little older now and I'm a little stronger than. And I could probably deal with it a little bit better than I would have those previous years.

[Shima Oliayi]

At least part of that getting stronger was thanks to Dyw. Her mom said those two weeks changed her more mature. Como se? I say more by herself and more time.

[Salma Barragan]

More time. So that trip was the longest I've been away from home by myself and the farthest I've been away from home. So when I came back, I. I felt a little bit more prepared for life and I felt a little bit more mature on what I experienced soon.

[Shima Oliayi]

After last year's election. I also called the girl who came up with the idea to Sharpie the women's symbol on her hand in protests of the Supreme Court decision. She'll be a senior at Duke University this fall. Caitlin Kai, Arizona. Hi.

[Jennifer]

Hello.

[Shima Oliayi]

Long time no see.

[Jennifer]

I know. How many months has it been? Too many.

[Shima Oliayi]

It's been two years.

[Jennifer]

Yes.

[Shima Oliayi]

I feel like every time I see you, there's. It's like a dramatic moment in history, but I guess maybe that's every day. On the day after the election, when it was clear Donald Trump had won, I logged onto social media and read a piece she'd written. It kind of floored me.

[Jennifer]

I had been up until probably like 1:32am in the morning, couldn't sleep, and then I just decided to write.

[Shima Oliayi]

Can you just read to me the question that you pose at the start of the piece?

[Jennifer]

Sure. By 5:36am this morning, former President Donald J. Trump had enough electoral College votes to be our next president of the United States. By the end of the week, he will also likely win the popular vote, a feat he did not even accomplish in 2016. Why?

[Shima Oliayi]

And the way that Caitlyn answered this question in her piece was unlike anything else I read that morning.

[Jennifer]

She goes on, the millions who voted for Trump believe they don't have a place in America. And for all the ads and canvassing, we didn't change their minds. They are not evil and they are not stupid. They are human and they are my friends, colleagues and mentors. They believe their promised America is more inclusive success, successful and strong, and they want us to believe in it with them.

[Shima Oliayi]

Caitlin's writing struck me as a plea to her peers, but it also felt like a message to the girls in the competition, inviting them to reflect on this moment with her. I thought it was brave, braver than even holding up that women's symbol at dyw. Were you scared at all to share it?

[Jennifer]

I know there are people from across the aisle that follow me, and I wanted to write something that showed that I cared about them, but that I maybe didn't understand them in this moment and also was an invitation for them to reach out to me. I wanted to hold myself accountable to understanding people, and I wanted other people to try and do the same.

[Shima Oliayi]

Caitlin voted Democrat, but she says the election results made her look at her party in a new light.

[Jennifer]

The Democratic Party is now perceived as the party of elites, and I don't think I was an elite growing up. I'm the kid of immigrants. I grew up upper middle class like my parents, fought for their American dream, but just by the virtue of fact that I go to an elite university like I've now ascended into this echelon of American society that very few people get access to. And we just think and talk so incredibly differently than the rest of America.

[Shima Oliayi]

When I'd met Caitlin at the competition, she was planning to major in public policy, but recently she decided to ax that and created her own major, and.

[Jennifer]

It'S called Social and Public Trust in the Digital Age. So I'm very interested in the relationships between people, media and institutions and what makes us mistrust them.

[Shima Oliayi]

Were you interested in trust before dyw, and then that DYW just presented you the Roe v. Wade day, or did it trigger something?

[Jennifer]

I think DYW was one of the strongest communities that I had ever experienced and one that was built very, very fast with a very, very diverse group of people because of dyw. And after DYW and make a conscious effort to trust people who I'm not naturally inclined to trust. And, and sure, like, sometimes I've gotten burned, but I also have built some really valuable, incredible relationships. And I think that allows me to then be able to kind of trust in the future of the country, trust in these bigger institutions, trust in systems, because I practice it on the day to day. And these next four years, like whether or not you voted for Donald Trump, are going to be very volatile. And trust doesn't mean you don't hold people accountable or that you take things lying down. But trust is like extending an olive branch. It's just giving people the chance to prove themselves. It's going to be really easy to be cynical and nihilistic, but the world is a better place when we're not.

[Shima Oliayi]

Thank you for trusting me to get on this call.

[Jennifer]

Happy to.

[Shima Oliayi]

Oh my God. Yeah. Reunion. Oh, my God. At the start of my second trip to Mobile, this time as a grown woman, I didn't know what to expect. I knew that the competition asked the girls as teenagers, what do you stand for? But what happened in 2022 woke up the girls in ways no one could predict. And seeing what they're doing with their lives helps me see our country in a way that all the books and articles and news reports never could. To Caitlyn and Salma and Amy and all the girls of dyw, thank you for reminding me we can grow up, we can even change, and the journey can be joyful. Oh, there's so many tears, dude. I never cry. I was just saying that I never had friends, like that many friends during high school and I came here and like, I just have new best friends. Isabelle, I'm going to like, I'm so, I'm so much sadder leaving here than I ever did. Like my high school graduation. Like, I just feel so valued here.

[Kirtana Ramanathan]

Okay, one last thing before I go.

[Shima Oliayi]

La la la la la la la la.

[Amy Pham]

El's world. Your mom when you were about, when.

[Arizona]

You were about to say that where.

[Salma Barragan]

You went to college, I was straight.

[Jennifer]

Up about to say.

[Al Letson]

That story was from Shima Oliayi, reporter, producer and host of the six part series the competition from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios in collaboration with with Shirazad Productions. You can find the full series wherever you get your podcasts. The entire show is a rollercoaster ride from the competition thanks to senior producers Courtney Harrell, Justine Dahm, Claire Chambers, Stephanie Wachmeen, associate producer Mari Orozco, editor Maddy Sprung Kaiser and senior engineer Davey Sumner. This week's episode was produced by Aniancy Diaz Cortez. Taki Telenides edited the show. Our production manager is the Amazing Zula Macabre. Score and sound design by Davey Sumner and Sarah Kinsley. Additional music by the dynamic duo Jay Breezy, Mr. Jim Briggs and Fernando My Man Yo Arruda. Our interim executive producers are Bret Myers and Taki Telenides. Our theme music is by Camarado Lightning. Support for reveals provided by the Riva and David Logan foundation, the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur foundation, the Jonathan Logan Family foundation, the Robert Wood Johnson foundation, the park foundation, the Schmidt Family foundation, and the Hellman Foundation. Support for reveal is also provided by you, our listeners. We are a co production of the center for Investigative Reporting and prx. I'm Al Letson and remember, there is always more to the story.

[Amy Pham]

From prx.