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- [00:00]
Al Letson
Foreign.
- [00:03]
Jeff Hood
We're in a society right now where, you know, we. We're getting undocumented folks being pulled out of their houses, drugged through the streets. And, you know, and I hear all the time, we'll pray for you. I don't need your damn prayers. I need your help. I need you there in the streets with me. I need your bodies. And, you know, it's the same way with these, with these guys on death row. And I encountered churches all the time who say, well, we'll pray for you. This guy is about to literally be killed.
- [00:38]
Narrator/Host
On this week's More to the Story, priests activist and death row spiritual advisor Jeff Hood. We talk about his years as a white southern reverend advocating for racial justice.
- [00:48]
Al Letson
And how he became the guy death.
- [00:50]
Narrator/Host
Row inmates turn to in their final moments. At a time when executions in the US Are climbing, this conversation went places I never expected. Trust me, you don't want to miss it.
- [01:09]
Malcolm Gladwell
Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionist History. We're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control.
- [01:20]
Jeff Hood
There was this joke that said that it was easier to get forgiveness in the Church of Christ for murdering somebody.
- [01:28]
Malcolm Gladwell
Than it was to be divorced from revisionist history. This is the Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionist the Alabama Murders. Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:48]
Al Letson
This is.
- [01:49]
Narrator/Host
More to the story. I'm Al Letson.
- [01:52]
Al Letson
There are roughly 2,100 people on death.
- [01:55]
Narrator/Host
Row in the U.S. some have been there for decades, in part because executions have been on the decline in this country. But that's changing. As of this recording, 41 people have already been executed this year, up from 25 last year.
- [02:10]
Al Letson
President Trump, a longtime proponent of the.
- [02:13]
Narrator/Host
Death penalty, has reinstated federal executions while encouraging states to expand the use of capital punishment. One man has seen many of these executions up close. Jeff Hood, an activist and theologian, has.
- [02:26]
Al Letson
Become something of a go to spiritual advisor for many on death row.
- [02:31]
Narrator/Host
He goes right inside the execution chamber for the final moments of people's lives. This kind of work, he says, is a natural outgrowth of his longtime activism for racial equality in the South.
- [02:45]
Al Letson
Jeff, how you doing, man?
- [02:47]
Jeff Hood
Living the dream, brother. Well, the nightmare, the American nightmare, right?
- [02:52]
Al Letson
Tell me, Jeff, like, right now, the thing that I am the most curious about is how did Jeff Hood become Jeff Hood?
- [03:01]
Jeff Hood
Man, I thought you was gonna say, how do I keep this head shaved, man, that's what she was gonna ask. I grew up in south Atlanta, and that had a tremendous effect on me growing Up. I mean, I was constantly influenced by who, you know, all of these great civil rights heroes, Andy Young, Joe Lowry. You know, I don't think you can. You can be around that without it getting in your bones. Yeah, you know, I guess as I got older, I looked at Atlanta and I said, you know, they got enough help, and so they got a lot of people working up there. And so I needed to go somewhere that was terrible, and Little Rock, Arkansas fit the bill.
- [03:44]
Al Letson
See, I ain't gonna talk bad about Little Rock. I can say some things, but I ain't gonna do it.
- [03:50]
Jeff Hood
You know, I'll tell you, this is like the ultimate, like, nowhere place. Like, it's just, you know, which is. Which has its pluses and minuses.
- [04:02]
Al Letson
When did you join the ministry?
- [04:04]
Jeff Hood
Man, I was a young man. So I grew up in a Southern Baptist congregation that was sort of this bastion of white evangelicalism and a world of sort of, you know, black middle class folks on the south side of Atlanta. I always tell people, man, that one of the defining characteristics of where I lived is that a couple streets over, Tiny had her nail shot. So that tells you everything you need to know. So growing up, you know, had a very conservative theology, but I was also, again, very influenced by, you know, the civil rights culture, that somehow faith can achieve change. And faith can mean more than just, you know, sitting in the church praying that you can actually make the world a better place. I came through my undergrad and, you know, was interested in the ministry and. And I had this mentor that mattered so much to me. I mean, he was in a conservative religious environment, but he was very open minded, poured into me, encouraged me to think widely and deeply. And I go to seminary. And I'm right there in the middle of seminary again, preparing for ministry, and I get a phone call from him and he revealed that he had lung cancer. I go down to Atlanta and he brings me into, next to his bedside. You know, they had the hospital bed set up. I mean, you know, just a classic sort of, you know, he was dying with his wife and kids. The next room over, he reveals to me that he had lived his life as a closeted gay man. And he had pastored all of these churches as this Southern Baptist minister. And so all of a sudden I'm sitting here with this sort of epiphany and it's like, I love. I love Jesus. But this. Here's this person that had, you know, really been Jesus to me and poured into me so much, and all of a sudden, Jesus is gay and. And you know, that sort of blew up all, like, the theology that I had had prior. And I think that that pushed me deeper into this sort of search. And I felt like if I could, you know, push into the, you know, the liberal, and I'll keep, you know, liberal now. Tell everybody I'm doing my fingers with the liberal in the air quotes. But I thought, you know, I'm going to pour, you know, push into the liberal crowd and see what they can teach me. So I went to Emory. I did a graduate degree there in Atlanta at Emory in theology. And, man, I began to find these liberal folks just as backwards as a lot of these conservative folks. You know, I'm gonna put up the flag, but don't expect me to march. I had been so influenced by, again, those civil rights leaders that I knew I was supposed to go all the way. I was supposed to give my body. I began to find a lot of the sort of black gay culture in Atlanta and was ready to push into these spaces of injustice in a way that I had never seen before. And so I was so affected by this sort of courage that these folks were showing. I mean, they was going into the black church and saying, y' all can talk about social justice all the time, but y' all are treating us like shit. And then going into white spaces and saying, y' all ain't just racist. You're homophobic, you're transphobic, and on down the line. But I was brought into the ministry in a conservative environment 22, 23, and then sort of baptized in this sort of queer culture that in many ways led me to this sort of radicalization that continued to come through the years that's led me to Black Lives Matter work, you know, work in queer liberation and eventually to. To Death Row. Most people, they're their radicalists when they get first ordained, it seems like you're in the opposite direction.
- [08:21]
Al Letson
You kept getting more radical after the ordination.
- [08:24]
Jeff Hood
Yeah. And it just seems like now I have a lot of sympathy for a lot of conservatives. And the reason I have sympathy for a lot of conservatives is a lot of the times it feels like a lot of these folks don't know no better. I don't have any sympathy for liberal folks. I find liberal Christians to be one of the most disgusting group of people that I have ever encountered because. And I apologize for some of the folks who would call themselves liberal out there, that's actually nice people. But my point is this sort of space in the middle, you know, that Dr. King talked about in the letter from the Birmingham jail, you know, those are the people that are most bothersome to me now. I mean, look, we're in a society right now where, you know, we're getting undocumented folks being pulled out of their houses, drugged through the streets. And, you know, and I hear all the time, we'll pray for you. I don't need your damn prayers. I need your help. I need you there in the streets with me. I need your bodies. And, you know, it's the same way with these. With these guys on death row. And I encounter churches all the time who say, well, we'll pray for you. Yeah, this guy is about to literally be killed.
- [09:40]
Al Letson
Let me ask you, like, in your trajectory, how did you find yourself working with Black Lives Matter?
- [09:47]
Jeff Hood
I think my gateway, if you will, was when Troy Davis was about to be executed in Georgia. And I was a student at Emory at the time. And I remember officer Mark McPhail was the victim in that case out of Savannah. You know, everybody had on the I am Troy Davis T shirts. That was the swag, I guess, back then, for the. For the moment. And I remember just thinking about that situation and really being so deeply convicted that if officer Mark McPhail had been black, then none of this stuff would be happening. Of course, I was an Obama kid, 2008, 2009. And, you know, I was a part of this generation that was so determined and dedicated to see this hope and change and, you know, looking at the White House and saying, you know, everything we've hoped for has finally arrived. And, you know, I remember during that Troy Davis campaign, everybody saying, obama's going to find a way to save him. And I remember getting to the night of the execution there in Jackson, Georgia. On one side, you know, the phalanxes of troopers and police are lined up. You know, they got all their fancy equipment. And on the other side is, you know, all of these students from Atlanta and various activists. And I remember even then, people talking about, well, Obama's gonna do something. And I remember that night when he was executed, going home and just being like, you know, something has to get more radical, man.
- [11:21]
Al Letson
Do you feel like that was the moment that radicalized you? Like you had been building up and learning all of these things, and then Troy Davis happens, and it's just like that was it that broke the damn open.
- [11:35]
Jeff Hood
I think that my minister coming out to me was something that put me on a different trajectory and caused me to start asking questions. But I do think that Troy Davis moment was the moment where I said, you know, change can't happen through these venues that everybody tells me it can happen. I began to realize political change wasn't going to happen through elections. And that's not to say that we need to have this violent overthrow of the government, but it is to say that you can't trust anybody. I mean, and when you start trusting folks, that's when you start getting complacent. And so, you know, and in the years that followed, obviously you had incident after incident, shooting after shooting. You know, I went to Ferguson and was there and marched. And, you know, the reality is that I didn't know what I was doing. You know, I didn't have the language. I didn't have, you know, white guy trying to, you know, do right. I mean, you know, I didn't know anything except that I wanted to be where I felt like Jesus was, and I wanted to be where I felt like real hope and real change was. I found it in the streets.
- [12:57]
Narrator/Host
In 2016, you helped organize a rally in Dallas that was in response to the killings of two black men by white police officers. And at that protest, five officers were shot and killed.
- [13:11]
Al Letson
Can you tell me about that? Like, what happened?
- [13:14]
Jeff Hood
It was me and another guy named Dominique Alexander, and we had done a lot of organizing together. And I had called him and I said, look, we gotta do something. He was like, okay, set up the Facebook page. So I set up, you know, event page and started inviting people. And, you know, I remember he was out of pocket and I couldn't get ahold of him. And I remember thinking to myself, you know, holy shit, like, we about to have thousands of people in the streets, and I'm going to be there by myself, you know, so we get to the day of. I mean, it was really, really hot. And by the time I got up there, I remember thinking, man, if I don't meet the anger of this crowd, then, you know, this is going to be, you know, a nasty moment because people were angry, very angry, and rightfully so. And so I got up and I said, God damn, white America. And then I said, white America is a fucking lie. You know, and at the time, I mean, that shit, that shit hit man. Those were the words that needed to be said. Really pushing into this idea that white America, you know, the things that we're being taught, the history that is being upheld is a lie. Like, that's not the totality of the American story. It's not what's important. What is important is all of us.
- [14:42]
Narrator/Host
Describe for me the scene in Dallas and what was that feeling like there.
- [14:47]
Jeff Hood
Was a real feeling of. Of eeriness. It really felt like here's a lot of people we don't know, and we don't know what could happen.
- [15:00]
Al Letson
And just to help our listeners remember is that this was a really tense time in the country. The spotlight was being turned on black people dying at the hands of police. So 10 tension had to be high with everybody, not just with the protesters, but also on the police side as well, because they don't know what's coming as well.
- [15:24]
Jeff Hood
And also, like, you know, at the end of the day, this was a situation we were trying to make it as safe as possible. So you're protesting the police, but also working with them.
- [15:34]
Al Letson
Working with them. Yeah.
- [15:35]
Jeff Hood
We always felt like if something horrific was gonna happen, it was gonna be the police shooting protesters. You know, we were never prepared for something to come from within. We got all of these people, people of goodwill coming together, and then all of a sudden, you know, it's just crushed by this act of violence. We are going down the street. I had an officer right next to me and, you know, really good, really good guy, somebody that I was, had become friends with. He had, you know, served as sort of a protection for me and other organizers. And, you know, so I'm going down the street and I'm looking up ahead and I start seeing, you know, these shots fired and these officers dropping to the ground. And, you know, this officer pushes me to the ground and, you know, literally ready to give his life for me. And, you know, I had. I had a big old, like six foot cross I was carrying. You know, I was ready to go for the protest, but I wasn't prepared for those shots. I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel like I've become who I am based on the difficulty of trying to be human in this society. Trying to figure out a way to let love make a way instead of hate and vengeance. I think my life has been defined by these conundrums. Being a Southerner having this accent, but at the same time wanting to see a new South. And I think a lot of Southerners experience this in that, you know, you're proud of this civil rights history, you're ashamed of this history of slavery, while at the same time you realize that the entire region is defined by violence. It's defined by the violence of slavery, the violence of placing your body on the line to try to secure justice and whatnot. So it feels like all of these pieces just keep crashing together in my life and I, for whatever Reason. Feel like God just keeps calling me to push into the chaos.
- [17:48]
Al Letson
Let me ask you, in all of this, do you get a lot of pushback for being a white man who is speaking loudly about racial injustice?
- [17:59]
Jeff Hood
Hell, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, as a white guy, I mean, come on.
- [18:10]
Al Letson
And I'm sure you get it from both sides, right?
- [18:12]
Jeff Hood
I mean, the nature. I feel like the nature of following Jesus is often finding yourself in these places where you got one side saying, what an asshole. He's full of shit. He shouldn't be doing this. And you got the other side saying, what an asshole, he's full of shit. He shouldn't be doing this. I mean, I can't tell you how many rooms I've sat in with old white women to talking about, crying the whole time about how racist they are. And I'm sitting here going, do something. Like, do something. Like, quit talking. Do something. I think we have grown as a society where we are willing to hear different perspectives. There's different leadership.
- [18:52]
Al Letson
Jeff, I disagree. I don't think we've grown at all.
- [18:55]
Jeff Hood
Well, maybe not.
- [18:58]
Al Letson
I think we've regressed. I think that. I think that the truth of the whole Black Lives Matter is that it was forcing America to look at itself in a way that was very uncomfortable. And I think that America looked at it and said, nah, I'm good, and doubled down into closing its eyes and pretending like that thing didn't happen. So I think that what was happening is that, like, America got to look in the mirror and it said, yeah, I'm good. I don't want to look at it anymore.
- [19:32]
Jeff Hood
Yeah, I guess what I was. The point I was trying to make is that you do have white leftist politicians that are talking about race now in a way that they never would have. I feel like 10 years ago. Yeah, I agree the opposition has gotten more diverse. But I do think that you are right. I mean, we are in a space where racism has become normal. I don't know. I mean, I think you're right, Al. I think that there is just this space now where people. People don't want to talk about it.
- [20:07]
Narrator/Host
When we come back, we talk about how Jeff's activism and ministry led him to work with those on death row and the personal toll of being inside the execution chamber in the final moments.
- [20:18]
Al Letson
Of an inmate's life, it's like going.
- [20:20]
Jeff Hood
Down a rabbit hole. And I tell people all the time that the question is not whether I'm going to go down the rabbit hole with these guys. The question is whether I'm going to come back.
- [20:31]
Narrator/Host
Before we get to that, please give us a quick rating or review on Apple Podcasts because it's one of the very best ways to help listeners find the show. It's fast and easy. Just click on the Reveal show page in Apple Podcasts, then scroll down to where it says Ratings and reviews. That's it. Thanks for your support. All right, more with Jeff Hood in a moment.
- [20:59]
Americans United for Separation of Church and State Representative
We're almost a year into this administration and we continue to see attacks on our First Amendment freedoms daily. It's now time to look for those who are strategically fighting day in and out to preserve our constitutional freedoms. 1org Fighting the Good fight is Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Their mission is to protect everyone's right to live as they choose, so long as they don't harm others. Au has filed 10 lawsuits so far to defend freedom of and from religion in every aspect of our lives. Whether you're a supporter of public education, passionate about LGBTQ and reproductive rights, or some combination of all, AU relies on the help of its supporters to do this important work. As a listener of this podcast, you get it. A threat against the rights of one American is a threat to all of us. Please help us fight back against the growing authoritarianism in our country by joining Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Learn more by visiting au.org reveal or because church State Separation protects us all.
- [22:14]
Nadia Hamdan
This show is supported by Uncommon Goods. The countdown is on. Holiday shopping season is officially here. Uncommon Goods takes the stress out of gifting with thousands of unique, high quality finds you won't see anywhere else. Uncommon Goods has something for everyone. Plus many products are crafted by independent artists and small businesses, making every gift feel meaningful and truly one of a kind. So don't wait. Cross those names off your list before the rush. To get 15% off your next gift, go to UncommonGoods.com reveal that's UncommonGoods.com reveal for 15% off Uncommon Goods we're all out of the ordinary. Hi y', all, my name is Nadia Hamdan and I'm a producer here at Reveal. Reveal is a non profit news organization and we depend on support from our listeners. Donate today@revealnews.org donate and thanks.
- [23:24]
Narrator/Host
This is more to the story. I'm Al Letson and I'm back with Death Row spiritual advisor Jeff Hood. And just a note, this next part of our interview contains descriptions of executions that some listeners may find troubling.
- [23:40]
Al Letson
I want to talk about your work on Death Row because I feel like when we talk about Death Row, I feel like, number one, we really don't want to talk about it. Society would prefer to let this thing happen in a dark corner and not bring it up and talk about it. On the flip side, you have a lot of people would consider themselves pro life, but are also pro death penalty. Tell me about your experience with it.
- [24:07]
Jeff Hood
I think one of the things that influenced me the most, there was a rash of trans murders in Dallas. Trans women of color being murdered in Dallas. And I was part of a group of people that were doing vigils at the sites where the bodies were found. Some of the most powerful organizing I've ever done, because you're lifting up people that society has said, these people are absolutely disgusting and we want nothing to do with them whatsoever. At the same time, I'm doing that organizing. I was working with a guy on death row named Richard Masterson, who was a serial killer of trans women. He had been convicted of one, and there was speculation that he had committed many other acts. And that sort of dichotomy of people getting really ticked off that I was working with this guy on death row that had been such an oppressor of the community while trying to uplift the community, it sort of lets you know you ain't gonna have a home, and if you ain't got a home, then you just want to do what's right. And I think that that's how I felt about the BLM movement. That's how I felt about responding to folks who were critical of me. I just wanted to do what was right.
- [25:32]
Al Letson
Yeah. When you work with these men and women on death row, tell me about them, like, who are they?
- [25:42]
Jeff Hood
Well, they're all sorts of people. I mean, one of the places where I get in trouble by the sort of anti death penalty crowd, anti death penalty move, is when I say, you know, I said this the other day. It was a guy named Chuck Crawford who was killed in Mississippi, and he had murdered a young woman and, you know, horrible crime snatched her up. All of these crimes are horrible. And I said, somebody asked me at a press conference, they said, what would you do if it was your daughter? And I said, well, I would want to, you know, take my hands and rip them apart myself. I would want to kill them myself. The question is not what do we want to do? As much as it is, what should we do? I don't meet the person who committed the crime as much as I meet the person 20, 30 years later who sat in prison and had a lot of time to grow and move and expand their life and their horizons. I mean, it's sort of like most of these guys are committing these crimes at 19, 20, 21 years old. Well, that person is incredibly different than somebody that's 50. You know, these folks are most of the time desperate for any sort of touch, any sort of connection, any sort of relationship, any sort of just humanity. They just want to be treated like human beings in a system that has dehumanize them to the point where, you know, it wants to kill them.
- [27:16]
Al Letson
So you've been to several executions, right?
- [27:20]
Jeff Hood
Man 10 Right now.
- [27:22]
Al Letson
What is it like going into that chamber?
- [27:26]
Jeff Hood
I mean, it's horrible. I say that. It's. It's like going down a rabbit hole. And I. I tell people all the time that the question is not whether I'm going to go down the rabbit hole with these guys, the question is whether I'm going to come back. And what I mean by that is there's such an emotional and physiological and psychological toll that it takes that you. It's. I mean, it's. It's. I don't know, Al. I mean, there's just not words to. To describe the starkness of the walls, the feeling that the ceiling is going to crash in at any moment, the cold, like sweat that comes over you, the windows, and seeing witnesses come and feeling like you're in a fishbowl. And there's all of these sort of spaces that experientially are so horrible. And then you look up and here's this person that you're very close to, strapped down, defenseless, and you. Most of the time, they already have an IV in and. Or in the case of a nitrogen execution, they already have the mask on. It looks like a respirator mask. And you're sitting there, AL and this is when we talk about moral injury. This is about as big of a moral injury, I think, as one can face. You're asked to sit there and pray with this person, love this person, your best friend. I tell people that my job is to come in six to three months when somebody has six to three months left to live, and my job is to become their best friend so that their best friend will be with them when they're executed. And so literally, someone that you have worked so hard to develop that intimate of a relationship with, and your job is to sit there and do nothing while they're murdered. And, you know, you think about it. I mean, imagine if your wife, your kids, you know, your best friend. I mean, even a stranger being asked to sit there While they're murdered and being expected to do something. I mean, you know, I get all the time, oh, you know, you're a hero. You're so brave. You're so this, you're so that. And it's like, no, no, I'm not. In many ways, I'm a coward because I don't do anything. And I think that what I'm trying to speak to is the. Again, that conundrum, that moral conundrum, and just trying to do what. What is right and what is best, even amidst the horror. And, you know, I. How. I don't know, I. Last night I had this nightmare that, you know, I saw all the guys that I've been with who've been executed, all of my friends, people that I've loved so much, and they all look at me in my dreams and say, jeff, why didn't you help me in.
- [30:48]
Al Letson
The moment, in this horrible circumstance? And I'm not asking for, like, any hope or anything like that. I'm just generally curious. Like, these men have lived with this for, well, years. But as it's getting closer and closer and closer, it must consume their thoughts, as it has to consume your thoughts as well. I mean, it's a countdown to death. Do they have a moment of peace? Are they scared the whole time? Like, how does that. How does that play out?
- [31:22]
Jeff Hood
I've had many of my guys say I'm the lucky one. And I say, what do you mean by that? And the constant thing that they say is, we're both going to go through this, but you've got to walk out of there. And I get to not have to deal with any of it anymore. And so I think the peace comes from it being the end. The thought that there's peace and murder, I mean, that's. It's horrible. Obviously, Hal, I wanted to. I would be remiss if I didn't describe what one of these nitrogen exits look like.
- [31:57]
Al Letson
Yeah, I was just about to ask because I think it's not. Because I have, like a weird curiosity, but I think that we as a society, whether we agree with the death penalty or not, the fact that the state is doing it, the state is basically doing it in our name. And if the state is doing it in our name, we should know exactly what the state is doing. We should deal with the weight of that.
- [32:24]
Jeff Hood
You said a phrase that I think activists love to use, and I feel like it is the most liberal, wishy washy bullshit is when people say, not in my name.
- [32:34]
Narrator/Host
Yeah.
- [32:34]
Jeff Hood
And it's like no. Hell no. It is in your name.
- [32:38]
Al Letson
It is because you're part of the guilty. Right?
- [32:41]
Jeff Hood
Yeah. Everybody wants to. It's like pilot. Everybody wants to wash their hands and act like we're doing the best that we can. Well, fuck your best. Like, we don't need your best. We need your body. You know, when you go into these spaces, you hear people say all the time, I'm either for the death penalty or I'm opposed to the death penalty. And the reality of it is they don't have any clue what they're talking about. You catch these Southern governors all the time, like Ron DeSantis in Florida. They've executed 14 people this year. And he's always talking about how awful they are and how terrible they are and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, he is so glad that justice was served. These folks are cowards, man. If you are so interested in killing people, then do it yourself. I mean, have the. Or at least have the courage to be there. These folks don't want to see no executions. Judges and juries, they hand down these death sentences, but they never have to get their hands dirty. They never have to see it. They never have to participate in it. And I think we have a criminal justice system in which the courtroom and the sentence is so far removed from the lived experience of the condemned that it's like nobody knows what they're talking about. You know, Emmanuel Littlejohn, who was executed last year, somebody that was very close to when he was executed. I came in and he was a really funny guy, really sweet guy, but, you know, he was messing with me. And I had brought some oil in the room and. And it was in a little bag, and I pulled it out and I was gonna, you know, anointing his head with oil. And he said. And I was like. I was like, what? And he said, I thought you done brought me some weed. And. And so here he is, and we're having this, like, really human loving interaction. And, you know, on the other side, you've got these state officials who are just acting like, you know, they're at the water cooler. What did you do last night? You know, did you watch the game? You know, all that kind of stuff. And they ask him for his final words. And you can see the poison coming through the line. And when it hits, there are seconds before the paralytic hits.
- [35:12]
Americans United for Separation of Church and State Representative
And.
- [35:14]
Jeff Hood
I told him I was sorry, that I did everything I could to try to stop this thing. And I told him I was sorry. And he said, really one of the kindest Things he's ever said to me, he said, you know, we wouldn't have gotten as far as we did if it hadn't been for you. And, you know, just is devastating. And then all of a sudden, he goes quiet. And a lethal injection now looks like a medical procedure in a lot of ways. The paralytic hits, and, you know, they're completely unconscious. And there's movements which sort of speak to the fact that something happens after the paralytic. I mean, obviously, death happens after the paralytic, but something physiological, torturous happens. And it takes sometimes 21, 22 minutes to happen. And they begin to sort of gargle, and there's this sort of like watery yawn, watery breath. And what that seems to indicate is that there's feelings of drowning. Fluid begins to fill the lungs. The real horror there is losing your friend and just this sitting there and watching again, someone be murdered. But on the other hand, these nitrogen executions, which I was in the first one In January of 2024, Kenny Smith in Alabama.
- [36:45]
Al Letson
Yeah, I'm not familiar with this.
- [36:47]
Jeff Hood
What has happened is companies have consistently said that they don't want their drugs used in these lethal injections like pentobarbital and a number of other drugs, midazolam. The pharmaceutical companies have said these are not what these drugs are created to do. And so the more that people have pushed back, the harder it's been for states to get drugs to execute people. And so what states have turned to is more novel ways of executing people and including firing squads and also this process called nitrogen hypoxia. And it's been done in Alabama and once in Louisiana, In January of 2024, I walk into the chamber, and that was the first time they'd ever tried it. And so nobody really knew what it was going to be like. The state of Alabama made me sign a waiver to say that if they killed me, my descendants wouldn't hold the state accountable liable. We go in, and this respirator mask is on his face. It goes from the top of sort of the hairline underneath the chin. And as I go in, I pray with him, hold his hand for a bit, read scripture, and then I back up. And they start this thing. And we were told that it was going to be like going to the dentist. You know, you get knocked out and anesthetized, and that's it. It's peaceful and whatnot. Well, they turn the nitrogen on, and Kenny begins to heave back and forth, back and forth, over and over. And the face Mask on this respirator mask is sometimes glass, sometimes plexiglass. But the back of the mask was attached to the gurney. So every time he slammed his head forward, it was like his face was hitting like a plate glass window. Just boom, boom, boom, over and over. And he's popping back and forth and back and forth. And as he does that inside the mask, saliva and blood and snot begin to coagulate. On the inside of the mask, there's this waterfall of body fluid, and he just keeps heaving over and over and over again. It looks like there's a million ants underneath his skin. His skin is going every different direction. His muscles are tensed up. This lasted for almost nine minutes, eight or nine minutes. And I guess what. What it speaks to is the fact that there was a certain level of violence that people were accustomed to in carrying out these executions. I mean, it's violent to strap someone down, you know, to run an IV and kill them. This is a whole other level of violence. And it speaks to the fact that as a society, we have moved in a more violent direction. We've moved in a. In a space where we are comfortable with terrorizing, marginalized and oppressed people. And I think it really speaks to the fact that a lot of the movements and moments that happened in the 2010s have. Have become just that moments. And we're. We're in the space again where violence seems to be raining.
- [40:24]
Al Letson
What is attending these executions? What has it done to your mental health?
- [40:30]
Jeff Hood
Oh, man, it's terrible. I mean, it takes months after these executions to be able to function. I don't even say normally, but yeah, it's awful. And I wouldn't wish it upon anybody. But at the same time, scripture that talks about anybody putting their hand to the plow and looking back is not fit for the kingdom of God. And so I feel like as long as there's someone who needs me, I have to keep going until I can't.
- [41:10]
Al Letson
Jeff Hood.
- [41:11]
Narrator/Host
Dr. Jeff Hood.
- [41:12]
Al Letson
Thank you for taking so much time to talk to me today. This has been incredible. I really appreciate it.
- [41:19]
Jeff Hood
Well, I appreciate it too. Believe it or not, at noon, I'm off to a baptism. I gotta do a. I'm baptizing a little girl. It's funny. All the other ministry continues.
- [41:35]
Narrator/Host
That was reverend, activist and death row spiritual advisor Jeff Hood. Since talking with Jeff, Florida executed one more person, and three more executions in that state are scheduled for this year. If you like this episode, you should check out the reveal episode in Bondage to the Law. It looks at the case of Taforis Johnson, who spent more than 25 years on death row for killing a sheriff's deputy despite major doubts about his guilt. Lastly, a reminder. We are listener supported. That means listeners like you, you can help us thrive by making a gift today. Just go to revealnews.org gift again, that's revealnews.org gift and thank you. This episode was produced by Josh sanburn and Carl McGurk. Allison Brett Meyers edited the show, theme music and engineering help by Fernando My Man, Yo Arruda and Jay Breezy. Mr. Jim Briggs, I'm Al Letson. And you know, let's do this again next week. This is more to the story.
- [42:52]
Al Letson
From prx.