Reveal: "I Study Fascism. I’ve Already Fled America."

Date: November 5, 2025
Host: Al Letson
Guest: Jason Stanley, Philosophy Professor & Author

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode features a candid and urgent conversation between host Al Letson and Jason Stanley—philosophy professor, renowned expert on fascism, and author of How Fascism Works and Erasing History: How Fascists Rewrite the Past to Control the Future. The episode goes deep into why Stanley made the extraordinary choice to leave his tenured role at Yale and move to Canada, reflects on the rise of fascist tactics in the United States under the Trump administration, and draws broader lessons about authoritarianism, academia, and resistance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jason Stanley’s Flight from Yale to Canada ([00:02], [10:35])

• Stanley's Motivation: He left Yale to avoid institutional pressures that would suppress his critique of the Trump administration and to maintain his intellectual independence.
  • Quote: “I knew that if I stayed at Yale, there would be pressure not to bring the Trump administration's wrath onto Yale….to see the fascists as just politically different and talk about polarization.” ([00:02], [10:35])
• Value of Academic Freedom: Stanley argues American universities are under direct threat from political interference and that remaining in the U.S. would have neutered his ability to "hit hard."
  • Quote: “I just felt I would be torn. I couldn't hit hard in the way that I'm hitting hard now with you.” ([10:35])

The Core Mechanics and Dangers of Fascism ([02:43], [05:09])

• Education as a Target: Fascists aim to shape education systems to glorify "great men" and enforce narratives of national greatness, laying the groundwork for scapegoating.
  • Quote: “For fascist politics to be maximally effective, you need a certain kind of education system that tells people that their country is like the greatest ever…. In the United States, we already had an education like system like that.” ([02:55])
• Definition of Fascism: Stanley characterizes fascism as a leader-centric movement promising national renewal while identifying scapegoats—immigrants, minorities, LGBTQ people, feminists, leftists.
  • Quote: “A cult of the leader who promises national restoration in the face of supposed humiliation by immigrants, minorities, LGBTQ citizens, feminists and leftists.” ([05:15])

Description of the Current U.S. Situation under Trump ([06:41], [08:22])

• Authoritarianism and the Supreme Court: Stanley claims the Trump regime has consolidated key levers of power, especially the Supreme Court, and no longer seeks broad public support.
  • Quote: “The Supreme Court is nothing but a far right Trump loyalists...They rule almost entirely in favor of Trump.” ([06:41])
• A Coup in Progress: Stanley argues bluntly that a coup is underway, citing extralegal assassinations, use of the military against opposition, and the criminalization of dissent.
  • Quote: “Yes, a coup is happening in the United States....They are seizing the levers of power....All of this is an overthrow of the democratic order, and it's already happened.” ([08:22])

The Debate over "Polarization" ([12:25], [17:30])

• Polarization as a Euphemism: Stanley is scathing toward those who frame the moment as "polarized," arguing that this narrative enables fascism by trivializing the ethical stakes.
  • Quote: “It's like saying the Civil War, the problem with the Civil War was polarization. It's literally like that....History will look back at this time at figures who talk about polarization...like people who called John Brown a crazy person or who said, oh, it's too early for abolition.” ([12:25], [17:45])
• Media’s Complicity: He faults both the mainstream and right-wing media for building moral panics around universities and setting them up for attack.
  • Quote: “The media viciously attacked universities and set the groundwork for Trumpism. So that has to stop and the both siderism has to stop. The whole stuff about polarization, that's just enabling fascism.” ([15:44])

The Global Nature of Fascism and Authoritarian Solidarity ([21:25])

• International Links: Far-right movements are internationally connected, and the Trump administration is forging global alliances (e.g., with Argentina’s far-right).
  • Quote: “You cannot investigate Trumpism just by looking at the United States....there are powerful links between Germany's fascist party Alternativ for Deutschland and the Trump regime.” ([21:25])

Reflections on Jewish Identity, Israel, and Genocide ([18:36], [18:58])

• Speaking Out: Stanley stresses the moral imperative for Jewish voices to denounce Israeli actions in Gaza, framing silence as complicity.
  • Quote: “A genocide is being perpetrated in our name....We have to say this is not in our name....Palestinians and Jews should have equal rights. And apartheid has to end.” ([18:58])

Why “Normal Life” Persists under Authoritarianism ([23:03])

• Complacency and Denial: Stanley warns that under fascist conditions, daily life may appear normal for many, even as government repression and atrocities intensify.
  • Quote: “You can still go to the club, there are still raves, there are restaurants, there are bars....They're like, how could it be fascism? Because I can go to the restaurant and complain about, you know, the government to my friends.” ([23:03])
• Active Atrocities: He details current U.S. policies—immigration concentration camps, masked kidnappings—and the willingness of profiteers to normalize these practices.
  • Quote: “We have people in masks kidnapping people off the streets....All the people who are enabling this, all the people who are normalizing this....I don't myself believe in hell, but I think there's a lot of people out there who, who are, you know, padding their wallets, getting that extra attention by normalizing this....” ([23:41])

Prospects for Resistance and Civil Society ([25:39])

• Signs of Hope: Stanley believes that the regime’s overreach may spark greater resistance and that civil society is pushing back, even if the path forward is unclear.
  • Quote: “No, I see that the regime...are soaking themselves in cruelty and corruption and illegality....But I think it's becoming clearer and clearer to many Americans what's going on....So that's where I see the hope here, that I think they went too fast.” ([25:44])

Notable Quotes (with Speaker & Timestamp)

• Jason Stanley on academic pressure:

  “Yale would try to normalize the situation, escape being in the press, urge us to see the fascists as just politically different and talk about polarization.” ([00:02])

• Jason Stanley on education and fascism:

  “You need a certain kind of education system that tells people their country is the greatest ever. That’s how fascism works.” ([02:55])

• Jason Stanley on the U.S. regime:

  “The Supreme Court is nothing but a far right Trump loyalists....They only there for the purposes of keeping Trump in power....” ([06:41])

• Jason Stanley confirming a coup:

  “Yes, a coup is happening in the United States….All of this is an overthrow of the democratic order, and it’s already happened.” ([08:22])

• Jason Stanley on the polarization narrative:

  “It’s literally like saying the problem with the Civil War was polarization.” ([12:25], [17:45])

• Jason Stanley on Israel and Jewish responsibility:

  “A genocide is being perpetrated in our name....We have to say this is not in our name....Palestinians and Jews should have equal rights. And apartheid has to end.” ([18:58])

• Jason Stanley on normalization and daily life:

  “How could it be fascism? Because I can go to the restaurant and complain about, you know, the government to my friends.” ([23:03])

• Jason Stanley on hope:

  “So that’s where I see the hope here, that I think they went too fast. So it’s a bad time. But I think that there is a lot of civil society reaction....” ([25:44])

Important Timestamps

• Flight from Yale & Academic Pressure: [00:02], [10:35]
• Definition & Mechanics of Fascism: [02:43], [05:09]
• U.S. Authoritarianism & "Coup": [06:41], [08:22]
• Critique of "Polarization": [12:25], [17:45]
• Universities as Democratic Battlegrounds: [15:44]
• Israeli Policy & Jewish Activism: [18:58]
• Global Far-Right Coordination: [21:25]
• Normalization under Authoritarianism: [23:03]
• Signals of Resistance and Hope: [25:44]

Conclusion

This episode is a stark, unsparing analysis of the present U.S. political moment, framed by historical scholarship and personal experience. Jason Stanley issues grave warnings about the advanced state of authoritarianism in America, the complicity of institutions through rhetoric like "polarization," and the vital importance of solidarity and civil resistance. He leaves listeners with both an urgent call to reject normalization of fascism—and a shred of hope that civil society’s response could turn the tide.