Podcast Summary: Reveal

Episode: One on One With Trump’s Black MAGA Pastor

Host: Al Letson
Guest: Pastor Lorenzo Sewell
Date: December 3, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode features a candid, at times combative, interview between Reveal’s Al Letson and Detroit Pastor Lorenzo Sewell, a prominent Black supporter of Donald Trump who prayed at Trump’s second inauguration. The conversation dives into Sewell’s life, his conservative political views, his experience in Trump’s orbit, and their contrasting understandings of racism, political loyalty, and Black America’s relationship with both main parties. The episode offers an inside look at divisions within Black communities over partisan identity and the definition of racial progress.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pastor Sewell’s Early Life and Transformation

• Growing up in Detroit:
  • Raised amidst poverty, crime, and violence on Detroit's east side, Sewell experienced family trauma and witnessed gang activity ([04:12]).
• Turning Point:
  • Sewell recounts a vivid “road to Damascus” moment in Daytona Beach, leading to his conversion from drug dealing to Christianity after a security guard prayed for him ([06:57]).
  • “The only thing I knew about Bible paper is I smoked weed out of it when I didn't have any blunts left over.” — Pastor Lorenzo Sewell ([09:00])
• Rise in Ministry:
  • Preached his first sermon at 19, became the first Black campus pastor at a mostly white, multi-site church, and describes being unaware of his “Blackness” socially until age 17 due to his upbringing ([10:15]).

2. Political Awakening and Identity

• Non-traditional political affiliations:
  • Sewell claims he always voted Republican, rooted not in party loyalty but opposition to abortion and support for traditional marriage, both “Bible-based” positions ([25:59], [27:22]).
• Personal definition of racism:
  • “Racism is when you close the door of opportunity to people because of their skin color… I believe President Trump is an anti-racist because he opened the door of opportunity to somebody like me.” — Pastor Lorenzo Sewell ([00:02], [32:26])
• Pushback from the community:
  • Recounts receiving death threats and hostility after hosting Trump and publicly supporting him, highlighting the expected political homogeneity for Black leaders:
    • “You're supposed to be a black man. You're supposed to be a black man. And I was like, it's a president.” ([13:53])

3. Debate Over Racism, DEI, and Structural Issues

• On right-wing figures and racism:
  • Pastor Sewell distinguishes personal opportunity from systemic racism, viewing figures like Charlie Kirk as not racist since they provided him a platform ([15:00]).
• Al Letson’s counterargument:
  • Letson presses Sewell to see racism as systemic, not just personal:
    • “Just because a racist is nice to a single black person… because he's nice to Candace Owens… does not absolve him of his racist ideology” ([16:06]).
• Disagreement on systemic barriers:
  • Sewell asserts that Black-controlled city governments are themselves responsible for lack of economic prosperity in Black communities, blaming Black Democratic leaders for not distributing resources equitably ([19:30]).
• Letson reframes:
  • Letson suggests this is more about political machines than racism per se, and stresses the broader impact of government structures ([20:36]).

4. Party Loyalty, Trump, and Black America

• Sewell’s reasons for supporting Republicans and Trump:
  • “It had nothing to do with the previous points. It's two things. One is because of abortion, and the second thing is because of the institution of traditional family.” ([25:59])
• Moral reservations vs. political opportunity:
  • Letson questions Trump’s morality and Sewell’s willingness to overlook it, while Sewell insists Trump has done more for him than anyone except his mother:
    • “What I do know is he is an anti-racist because he's done more for me than any black person I've ever known, period, outside of my mother.” ([30:51])
• The “exceptional” Black supporter debate:
  • Letson argues that being personally elevated does not absolve Trump or other conservatives of racist policy or attitudes:
    • “I think… he sees you as exceptional and he also sees you as useful.” ([31:32])
• Dr. King at the Inauguration:
  • Letson challenges Sewell on invoking Dr. King in prayer for Trump. Sewell says, “Most people don't even know. That was Dr. King,” and sees his prayers as personal supplication, not political theater ([39:29]).

5. “Harm Reduction” Politics & Final Thoughts

• Al Letson’s approach:
  • “I don't label myself a conservative or a liberal… I vote all about harm reduction because personally, I don't think that either one of these parties represents African Americans very well.” ([36:32])
• Sewell’s fiscal focus:
  • Sewell explains his politics now are about fiscal opportunities, local control, and governmental empowerment of Black communities ([37:46]).
• Letson critiques Trump’s business/presidential record:
  • Letson points to Trump’s business bankruptcies and economic problems as evidence of failed leadership, especially judged fiscally ([38:07]).
• Both agree on the need for honest historical reckoning:
  • Letson: “When you go back and try to change the past and not really look at the face of what this nation is, that is a sin against the entire world because we all deserve to know where we're from and how we got here.” ([34:58])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pastor Lorenzo Sewell ([00:02]):
  “I believe President Trump is an anti-racist because he opened the door of opportunity to somebody like me in a context where nobody would vote for him.”

• Al Letson ([16:06]):
  “Just because a racist is nice to a single black person or a few black people… does not absolve him of his racist ideology.”

• Pastor Sewell ([09:00]):
  “The only thing I knew about Bible paper is I smoked weed out of it when I didn't have any blunts left over.”

• Al Letson ([29:17]):
  “…the Bible talks way more… about taking care of the poor and being good to your neighbor… But when I hear people say [abortion and LGBTQ+ issues] are their two issues, I wonder where all the other issues are, because those two issues are minor in the Bible.”

• Pastor Sewell ([30:51]):
  “He is an anti-racist because he's done more for me than any black person I've ever known, period, outside of my mother.”

Important Timestamps

• 00:02: Pastor Sewell’s definition of racism and support for Trump
• 04:12: Sewell on growing up in Detroit
• 06:57: Life-changing conversion experience
• 09:00: Early relationship to the Bible and ministry
• 13:53: Backlash for supporting Trump
• 16:06: Letson challenges Sewell’s definition of racism
• 19:30: Sewell discusses Black city governance and resource distribution
• 25:59: Why Sewell always voted Republican
• 27:22: Sewell’s biblical reasoning for opposing abortion and LGBTQ+ rights
• 30:51: Sewell asserts Trump has done more for him than anyone
• 31:32: Letson disputes Trump’s treatment as “anti-racist”
• 34:58: Discussion on historical truth and Black history
• 36:32: Letson explains “harm reduction” as his approach to voting
• 39:29: Sewell addresses using Dr. King’s words at Trump’s inauguration

Tone & Original Language

• The tone is highly conversational and frequently direct, with moments of intense disagreement and occasional humor.
• Letson is respectful but skeptical, often pressing Sewell to defend or explain his stances.
• Sewell is forthright about his positions, sharing both personal narrative and political argumentation.
• Both model direct but civil engagement across deep ideological divides.

Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a raw, unfiltered look at a pivotal and often misunderstood American political realignment—the visible surge of Black conservative voices arguing for Donald Trump. With both empathy and critical scrutiny, Al Letson and Pastor Sewell explore the meaning of racism, the limits of personal opportunity, the role of faith in public life, and the fractious politics of 2025. For anyone seeking insight into how faith, race, and partisan politics overlap and collide in modern America, this conversation is essential listening.