So You Don’t Understand Crypto. Buckle Up.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Reveal – "So You Don’t Understand Crypto. Buckle Up."

Date: October 1, 2025
Host: Al Letson
Guest: Molly White, Independent Writer & Researcher
Producer: The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX

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Episode Overview

This episode of Reveal takes a deep investigative dive into the often opaque and ever-evolving world of cryptocurrency, using the spectacular collapse of FTX as a case study. Host Al Letson is joined by tech writer and crypto critic Molly White. Together, they explore the basics of crypto, its infiltration into politics, risks for investors, political influence in the US, the ongoing deregulation, and why crypto keeps drawing people in despite repeated financial disasters.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Cryptocurrency? (04:18–06:45)

• Molly White explains that cryptocurrency is a digital asset that exists only in the digital world (04:35). People typically trade these assets—like Bitcoin or other coins—in hopes of turning a profit.
  • "There's no physical representation of the asset... People trade these assets like Bitcoin... in hopes of earning a profit, typically." — Molly White (04:39)
• Bitcoin, created in 2009, was the first cryptocurrency; now, thousands exist.
• The blockchain is described as a distributed, decentralized digital ledger that records every transaction (05:21). The original aim was to remove intermediaries like banks, but the sector now has "a lot of intermediaries" again (06:09).

2. The FTX Collapse – What Happened? (06:45–10:00)

• FTX, once valued over $30 billion, collapsed due to a mix of regulatory failures and risky business practices.
  • Customers, during bankruptcy, were repaid in dollars based on depressed asset values at bankruptcy—not in the crypto they originally owned, resulting in significant losses as crypto prices later rebounded (07:04).
  • “This is sort of the risk that people take when they get involved in crypto, when they store assets on exchanges like FTX, is that... there really aren't protections that are ensuring that people get the outcome that they wish when catastrophes happen.” — Molly White (07:57)
• FTX's offshore status and lack of robust US oversight allowed conflicts of interest (like trading against customers) that would never fly in traditional finance (08:23–09:54).

3. Crypto's Resurgence and Growing Influence (10:00–11:43)

• After the FTX collapse, crypto regained momentum. Big US financial firms reintroduced crypto products (e.g., Fidelity’s Bitcoin ETFs), and the President’s administration embraced cryptocurrency regulations—structured mostly to favor industry insiders (10:09).
• Crypto's profile is now higher than ever in the American economic and political landscape.

4. The Risks of Investing in Crypto (11:38–14:09)

• Crypto is “still a very risky investment... for a couple of reasons” (11:43): extreme price volatility and the very real threat of losing assets entirely due to hacking, fraud, or company failures.
  • "Even in some of the most established cryptocurrencies, we see Bitcoin, for example, dramatically changing in price, both up and down." — Molly White (11:48)
  • Crypto exchanges often tout safety without meaningful oversight; repeated industry disasters are likely to recur without regulation.
  • “We see these catastrophes happening again and again and again. And without some sort of external force or oversight... it will just repeat.” — Molly White (13:46)

5. Crypto and Political Power: Elections and Influence (15:29–20:33)

• The crypto industry became intensely politically involved during 2024. Firms and executives pooled over $100 million, spending about $130 million to influence Congressional races (15:45).
  • Crypto PACs (Political Action Committees) targeted both opponents and supporters—rewarding allies and spending heavily to oust skeptics.
  • "The strategy... was essentially to show force against candidates who might be skeptical of cryptocurrency... and say, 'you know, we will spend you out of office.'" — Molly White (17:27)
• Donald Trump “very much positioned himself as the pro-crypto president,” launching family tokens and crypto businesses, and being seen as the favorable candidate by industry figures (19:26).

6. The Trump Family, Meme Coins, and the ‘Crypto Wild West’ (20:33–25:51)

• Trump’s family set up World Liberty Financial, a crypto trading platform and launched tokens (WLFI) and a stablecoin (USD1), earning vast sums though platform promises remain unfulfilled (20:43).
• Meme coins are joke-based tokens with highly volatile values. Early insiders get rich; latecomers generally lose money.
  • “The insiders who launch the token are the ones who make money, and everyone who comes in later tends to lose.” — Molly White (24:00)
• Viral cases, like the “Hawk Tuah” meme coin, repeat the same pattern: rapid enrichment for creators, losses for later buyers.

7. Why Do People Still Invest in Crypto and Meme Coins? (24:29–26:38)

• Many hope to be early winners and dream of "overnight" riches despite the odds and patterns.
  • "They see stories about a person, you know, just picking the right token, and suddenly they're a millionaire overnight, and they think, that could be me." — Molly White (24:41)
• Rational strategies include staying out, limiting investments to small percentages, sticking to major coins, and using self-custody. But additional risks (company collapse, hacking) are always present, and often underestimated (26:38).

8. Crypto Skepticism and Crypto Enthusiasm (28:03–30:18)

• Molly White and Al Letson both express skepticism, but White’s comes from “an abundance of knowledge.”
• Enthusiasts range from ideological bank-haters and “digital gold bugs” to those chasing fortunes, to technologists convinced of crypto’s future.
  • "There are a lot of people who are sort of digital equivalents of gold bugs... And they see Bitcoin as sort of a similar asset class to gold because it has a limited supply." — Molly White (28:49)

9. Regulation: Future or Fantasy? (30:18–33:10)

• Regulation remains weak and is becoming even weaker under political pressure. Industry-backed laws serve company interests more than consumer protection (30:26).
  • “I think, at least for the next couple of years, we're going to see very little in the way of regulations... I think the regulations... are solely regulations that benefit the cryptocurrency industry and the wealthy executives running these companies.” — Molly White (30:39)
• Crypto cycles through boom and bust, with bubbles attracting everyday investors before bursting, leading to major losses—"a cycle that we've seen over and over again."
  • "At some point, it will unfortunately self-correct in a way that is very, very painful. Painful for everyday people." — Molly White (33:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On FTX’s Weak Regulation:
  • "There has been very limited oversight of crypto firms like FTX, in part because FTX was based offshore." — Molly White (08:23)
• Why People Invest Despite Risks:
  • "They see stories about a person, you know, just picking the right token, and suddenly they're a millionaire overnight, and they think, that could be me." — Molly White (24:41)
• On Meme Coins:
  • "The insiders who launch the token are the ones who make money, and everyone who comes in later tends to lose." — Molly White (24:00)
• On Political Influence:
  • "[The crypto PACs] spent millions of dollars to unseat people... and instead replace them with politicians who would be much friendlier to the crypto industry." — Molly White (15:58)
• On the Cycle of Catastrophe:
  • "We see these catastrophes happening again and again and again. And without some sort of external force or oversight... it will just repeat." — Molly White (13:46)

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Timestamped Highlights

• Crypto and Blockchain Basics: 04:18–06:45
• FTX Collapse & Customer Losses: 06:45–10:00
• Crypto’s Political Power Play: 15:29–20:33
• Trump & World Liberty Financial: 20:33–22:10
• Meme Coins & Viral Scams: 22:10–25:51
• Investor Rationales & Strategies: 24:29–28:03
• Crypto Enthusiasm vs Skepticism: 28:03–30:18
• The Future of (De)Regulation: 30:18–33:10

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Tone and Final Thoughts

The conversation is candid, skeptical, and analytical. Molly White consistently grounds her critiques in both consumer protection and regulatory philosophy, coming across as deeply informed—contrasting with Al Letson’s open bewilderment but honest curiosity.

The episode leaves listeners with a sober sense of the risks and unresolved questions surrounding cryptocurrency, laying bare how, despite innovation and hype, crypto remains a speculative, often dangerous domain—especially for those lured by the dream of easy wealth.

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For further insight: The episode is part of a two-part series, with deeper investigation and exclusive interviews on the rise and fall of FTX and the broader consequences for everyday people and the world of finance.

Check timestamps above to jump directly to segments of particular interest.

Transcript

[A]

As the crypto industry is actually being deregulated rather than regulated. I remain very skeptical and cautious about those types of companies because we see these catastrophes happening again and again and again. And without some sort of external force or oversight to stop that pattern, I think it will just repeat.

[B]

Coming up on More to the Story, Tech writer Molly White is here to help us understand the cryptic world of cryptocurrency. We'll discuss the collapse of ftx, why people risk investing in a virtual currency, and how crypto plays a role in today's politics. Don't go anywhere.

[C]

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[B]

Hey, this is Al. And I'm sure it is no surprise to you that President Trump doesn't. Doesn't like us very much. He called the press the enemy of the people. Credentialed journalists have been banned from press briefings just for asking tough questions. Trump personally sued news networks demanding billions. And now, at his urging, Congress has voted to gut all federal funding for public broadcasting. And I think I know why. I think we all do. It's because real journalism brings sunlight, scrutiny, accountability. When power feels threatened, it lashes out. And that tells you just how vital independent reporting is. Right now here at Reveal, we don't answer to billionaires or politicians or special interests. We only answer to you, our listeners. But we can't do this alone. Stand with us. Support fearless independent journalism that refuses to back down. Donate today. Just visit revealnews.org fearless again, that's revealnews.org fear fearless. Thanks. This is more to the story. I'm Al Leadsin. There are a few things in this world that I find as baffling as cryptocurrency. This intangible, underregulated system of blockchains and meme coins that seem to be making a select few people pretty rich right now. Reveal is in the middle of a two part series investigating the collapse of ftx, the crypto exchange founded by Sam Bankman Fried. And so we thought, why not focus today's more to the story on helping me and you too understand a little more about all things crypto to help. Molly White is here. Molly is an independent writer and researcher who reports extensively about technology and the influx of crypto in politics. Molly, how are you?

[A]

I'm doing well. How are you?

[B]

I'm good. Although I feel like this whole interview is going to be you in teacher mode and me taking it all in because I don't understand half of this stuff. So before we get too deep, I'd love to start off with the fundamentals. So what exactly is cryptocurrency and Bitcoin?

[A]

So cryptocurrency is a digital asset, meaning that it exists entirely in the digital world. There's no physical representation of the asset asset. And people trade these assets like Bitcoin or various other crypto assets to try to speculate on the price, hoping that, you know, these very volatile assets will increase in price. They were created in 2009 or so with the advent of bitcoin, which was the first cryptocurrency. But now there are thousands and thousands of them that people trade back and forth, you know, in hopes of earning a profit, typically.

[B]

And so what exactly is a blockchain and how does that relate to cryptocurrency?

[A]

The blockchain is the ledger on which all of these transactions are recorded. So this is basically a distributed, you know, decentralized record of every transaction that happens, say, with a bitcoin. And so there is this system in which, you know, anyone can run one of these computers and contribute to maintaining this digital ledger without, say, a centralized entity like a bank keeping track of every transaction or acting as A middleman in those transactions.

[B]

Okay, I think I grasp all of that. It's a way of keeping like big institutions, banks kind of out of the mix, so to speak.

[A]

Right. The idea is that, you know, a ton of different people will all contribute to maintaining this ledger, but no single person or entity controls that ledger. And so, you know, there is no bank telling you, oh, sorry, you can't make that transaction for whatever reason. That was sort of the original design of cryptocurrencies. You know, since then it has evolved quite a lot. And so now there actually are a lot of intermediaries in the crypto world. But, you know, the sort of fundamental design was to, to cut them out of the mix.

[B]

So right now we're in the middle of reporting on the collapse of the cryptocurrency exchange FTX, which at one time was valued at more than $30 billion. You've also done a lot of reporting about FTX, including about the way customers were paid out as part of the bankruptcy. Can you talk some about that?

[A]

Yeah. So this has been a bone of contention in a number of crypto bankruptcies where instead of, you know, having their assets returned to them in the form that they had been hold holding them, people are being repaid with the dollar equivalent of those assets based on the time at which the company went bankrupt. And for ftx, you know, this was sort of an all time low in crypto prices. There had been a very tumultuous year in the crypto industry. And so, you know, bitcoin prices were low, other crypto asset prices were low. And now years later, as creditors are being repaid, they would much rather get their bitcoin back because those bitcoins are worth, you know, many times what they were worth at time of bankruptcy. But instead they're being repaid in dollars, which means that they've lost a significant amount of value than if they had managed to hold on to their crypto assets for that time. But, you know, this is sort of the risk that people take when they get involved in crypto, when they store assets on exchanges like ftx, is that, you know, there really aren't protections that are ensuring that people get the outcome that they wish when catastrophes happen.

[B]

If the US had a better system in place, could that have prevented things like FTX crumbling?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think that there were regulatory failures that contributed to both FTX's business operations that were, you know, extremely high risk, that were very much out of the norm for a traditional financial institution, and issues that sort of led to creditors not being repaid in ways that they may be expected. There has been very limited oversight of crypto firms like ftx, in part because FTX was based offshore. And so although they did have a branch of the company that was serving U.S. customers, much of the company and its operations were not necessarily subject to U.S. oversight. And, you know, there were very little regulations like you see in traditional finance that would aim to prevent the types of conflicts of interest that happened with FTX and its sister trading firm, which was called Alameda Research. Typically, you wouldn't want a, you know, a company that is holding customer funds to also be engaging in trading activities that could potentially be trading against those very same customers. You would want a very significant firewall around customer assets so that a company could not misuse those assets for their own expenditures or trading purposes. And those types of protections really were not in place. They did not prevent FTX from doing exactly that which I think contributed to its downfall.

[B]

Since the collapse of ftx, how has crypto entered the bloodstream of American finance and investment?

[A]

Well, it's been a pretty remarkable turnaround, I think, in the crypto world. You know, after ftx, I think people were very disillusioned with cryptocurrency especially, you know, sort of the everyday person rather than the crypto enthusiast. They saw crypto as very high risk, not worth getting involved in. They saw FTX as a cautionary tale. But over the couple of years since then, crypto has really reemerged in the American system as a major portion of the financial world, where we're seeing big companies, you know, traditional financial companies embracing crypto. There are companies like Fidelity that have issued crypto ETFs, which are a way for people to essentially gain exposure to crypto assets through a traditional brokerage. We've seen a massive embrace of cryptocurrency from the President and the President's administration, where the crypto industry has become very, very close with not the president, but also the regulatory structure and has exerted quite a lot of influence over upcoming legislation, over the regulatory approach. And so crypto has really reinserted itself, I would say, into the American consciousness as crypto prices have come back up. And there has been this embrace of cryptocurrency from the political administration.

[B]

So if I wanted to buy crypto today, how risky of an investment is it?

[A]

Well, crypto is still a very risky investment for a couple of reasons. For one, it's risky in the sense that crypto is extremely volatile. And so there are these Huge swings in price. Even in some of the most established cryptocurrencies, we see Bitcoin, for example, dramatically changing in price, both up and down. And so there is risk in that sense that, you know, you might put a lot of money into Bitcoin and then the price goes down and you lose a considerable portion of your original investment. But there are also risks in the crypto world that people are maybe not as used to from more traditional institutions where you can actually lose all of your crypto assets that can be stolen from you, or companies can go under and your assets may not be returned to you ever. Or if they are returned, it can be much, much later or in a different form. And those risks, I think, are still fairly significant. Even as companies try to present themselves as more legitimate versions of exchanges like ftx. I mean, when FTX was still doing business, they very much branded themselves as this safe and easy place to trade crypto. They tried to portray themselves as, you know, a place where you didn't have to worry about the custody of your crypto assets. You could just log on to the exchange and they'd be right there. You know, they tried to create trust among their customers that they were the legitimate above board way of trading crypto. Because, you know, FTX was not the first catastrophe in the crypto world. People had grown concerned about the legitimacy of these exchanges even prior to ftx. And so nowadays we're seeing other cryptocurrency exchanges sort of doing the same thing where they claim that, okay, for real this time, you know, we're the place where we will actually take care of your assets and protect you, but without much oversight still. And as the crypto industry is actually being deregulated rather than regulated, I remain very skeptical and cautious about those types of companies because we see these catastrophes happening again and again and again. And without some sort of external force or oversight to stop that pattern, I think it will just repeat.

[B]

Coming up on More to the story. Despite spectacular failures like FTX and security concerns like the ones Molly just described, demand for crypto keeps growing for a pretty simple reason.

[A]

You know, just picking the right token and suddenly they're a millionaire overnight. And they think, that could be me. I just have to pick the right one.

[B]

Okay, I know that you love this podcast because you're listening right now. We're having a thing, you and me. Why don't we make it official? Instagram official. Find us there at Reveal News. Be sure to like and share our posts with your friends. Add us to your stories, comment on the show or start a discussion if you feel moved. It all helps us grow. Thanks so much for being a part of this movement. We are all in this together and we couldn't do this show without you. Okay. More with Molly White in just a moment.

[A]

Hi y'. All.

[C]

My name is Nadia Hamdan and I'm a producer here at Reveal. Reveal is a non profit news organization and we depend on support from our listeners. Donate [e-mail] donate and thanks.

[B]

This is more to the story. I'm Al Letson here with Molly White who's helping us understand a bit more about cryptocurrency. So, Molly, another part of your research and reporting is the influence of cryptocurrency in politics. How did crypto affect the 2024 elections?

[A]

The crypto industry became incredibly politically active in 2024, and this had been happening over a period of a couple of years where crypto firms, including ftx, actually were becoming very politically active and trying to influence legislation and regulators so that they would have a more friendly environment under which to operate. But they really went into overdrive in 2024 where a coalition of cryptocurrency companies and executives raised over $100 million. They spent something like $130 million on congressional election the United States to either support candidates that they believed would be pro crypto and who would support the legislation that the crypto industry wanted to see put into place, but also to oppose candidates that they saw as threats to the crypto industry. People like Katie Porter in California, who lost her primary race for the California Senate seat. She was viewed as a ally of Elizabeth Warren, as someone who was maybe going to be skeptical of the crypto industry's promises and its plans for a much looser regulatory regime. And so they spent millions of dollars to unseat people like her or Sherrod Brown in Ohio and instead replace them with politicians who would be much friendlier to the crypto industry and would vote for legislation that they essentially drafted.

[B]

What kind of influence is crypto having on the upcoming midterms?

[A]

Well, we saw an incredible degree of crypto spending in the 2024 elections, and I think we are poised to see that again in 2026. The cryptocurrency Super PACS have already raised a significant amount of money rivaling what they raised in 2024. And, you know, they're continuing to accumulate funds to spend in the midterms. There's already been some spending happening in special elections and other races that have happened a little bit earlier, and I think we will continue to see that even more so into the midterms as the crypto industry continues to exert influence. The strategy last time was essentially to show force against candidates who might be skeptical of cryptocurrency or even just unwilling to sign on to the crypto industry agenda or, and essentially threaten them and say, you know, we will spend you out of office. You know, we will, we will support your opponents and we will make sure that they are elected rather than you, unless you get on board with our agenda. And so some people decided to acquiesce. They embraced cryptocurrency. Others were indeed up against huge spending where their opponents were backed by the crypto industry because the industry didn't want to see a skeptic or some. Someone who is more focused on consumer protection put into office. So I think we're going to see that pattern again where candidates are being strong armed into at least going along with the crypto industry's agenda, if not outwardly embracing it, in hopes of earning potentially millions and millions of dollars in campaign support.

[B]

Yeah, you know, when you got a candidate like Trump who I think it's fair to say has made a lot of money off of crypto versus a candidate who maybe is not doing as much for the cryptocurrency, it's clear where, where their alliance is going to go.

[A]

I think so. I mean, there was this perception from the crypto industry that the Biden administration was very anti crypto. You know, that it was because of Biden that we saw more enforcement in the crypto world. And there was this belief, or certainly the crypto industry contributed to this belief that Kamala Harris would be an extension of that. And so if you supported her, you would essentially be putting your crypto assets at risk. Whereas Trump very much positioned himself as an ally to the crypto industry, he was describing himself as the pro crypto president. He was launching his own tokens. He was building businesses where he was personally profiting from cryptocurrency. And so I think many executives in the crypto world saw him as the obvious choice because, you know, he wants to get rich from cryptocurrency, and so he will support policies that will allow anyone to get rich from running a cryptocurrency business. And, you know, they've, they very much threw their lot in with, with Donald Trump as a result of that.

[B]

What's Trump's involvement with World Liberty Financial? It seems like he and his family have made large investments and have their own family Tokens.

[A]

Right. So the Trump family has a whole portfolio of cryptocurrency companies and crypto related investments at this point. World Liberty Financial was one of the first ones. And this was a project that was launched by the Trump sons in collaboration with a couple of other crypto entrepreneurs. And the whole selling point was that they were going to create their own cryptocurrency trading platform that would address what they describe as debanking that they've experienced personally. So the Trump sons have said that in the past they were denied banking services due to their political beliefs, due to, you know, their family associations. And they see crypto as the way to answer that, where no bank can deny you service because it's decentralized and you know, you can just set up an account and go about your business. And that was sort of the, the ideology behind World Liberty Financial. Although the company so far has not actually launched anything besides a token called WLFI from which the Trump family has made hundreds of millions of dollars. They've also launched a stablecoin called USD1, which is again a crypto asset that is pegged to the US dollar. That has also been very lucrative for them. But you know, so far the actual promises of the platform have yet to be realized.

[B]

Before we move on, I'm still having a hard time understanding exactly what a meme coin is. So a meme coin is just, it's digital currency that somebody creates based around a meme and those can have dramatic swings in how much they're worth. Is. Is that correct?

[A]

Yes, that's absolutely correct. You know, meme coins often start at extremely low prices and then as interest is drawn to them, you know, people are always looking for the next new meme coin. And so if someone is able to get some attention on a meme coin, it can spike in price. Even if we're talking about, you know, many, many fractions of a penny to a penny. And because of that people try to make huge returns on them, even though often those spikes are very short lived and people often lose a substantial amount of money trying to speculate on the next big meme coin. That is sort of the model of meme coins is to sort of pick the right one early and then hopefully make a profit.

[B]

So it's sort of like pick the right one, get in early and get out early as well, like make the money and bounce.

[A]

Right. And you know, the people who are a little bit late to that party are the people who lose a lot of money because they allow those early purchasers to get out with their profits.

[B]

So is this the same type of thing that the hawktua girl, I have no idea what her real name is, the hawktua woman did, like, she created her own meme coin. Is that what it was?

[A]

Yep, that's exactly right.

[B]

So she created a meme coin and everybody got mad at her because she made a lot of money, or the people that were working with her made a lot of money, but everybody that came later to it kind of got screwed.

[A]

Right. And that is actually the. The most common trajectory for a meme coin is, you know, the insiders who launch the token are the ones who make money, and everyone who comes in later tends to lose money. And there's very little oversight or regulations around how meme coins are supposed to work. But people still get very angry when they perceive that the person who launched or endorsed a meme coin did it in the wrong way, that that caused them to lose money.

[B]

So let me ask you a really basic question then. If that's the way it goes, why invest in a meme coin? I don't understand. Like, if you know that, like, it's an inside job, why invest in it? I just. I'm really, truly trying to understand.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of crypto investing is really not. Not terribly rational. You know, there is a lot of hope that they're going to be one of those early buyers and they're going to be the ones who make the money and not the ones who are allowing the insiders to make the money. In reality, it's often not the case. And oftentimes, especially with meme coins, they are set up in such a way that you could never make money off of them because the insiders just have a structural advantage that is not available to everyday people who are coming in later to purchase these tokens, Tokens. But, you know, I think people get really hopeful. They see stories about a person, you know, just picking the right token, and suddenly they're a millionaire overnight, and they think, that could be me. I just have to pick the right one. And sometimes they lose over and over and over again, and they get very upset when that is not happening for them, Even if it's not an entirely rational behavior.

[B]

Is there a safe strategy with crypto in general? I'm pulling out from meme coins because it seems like what we're saying with meme coins is. It seems like it is the extreme wild west. Like you're almost playing the lottery, hoping that something will work out. Is there a crypto strategy that is a little bit more stable.

[A]

Well, staying out of it is certainly the safest option.

[B]

I think that's what I'm. That's what I'm planning to do.

[A]

That has been my strategy as well.

[B]

My kid, though, is very much into crypto. So I'm just curious, is there another path?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think there are ways that people work to minimize risk. I think that some people view cryptocurrency as what it is, which is an extremely high risk investment choice. And they see that, you know, maybe there is some room in their portfolio for that type of asset. And so they allocate, you know, a small percentage of their investment strategy towards crypto. Maybe they stick to some of the more mainstream coins, maybe they take custody of their assets personally so that they don't have to worry about an exchange going under. But ultimately, anyone who is involved in crypto speculation is taking on a significant amount of risk. Risk both in the sense that it's very volatile and it's high risk in the sense that, you know, maybe high risk investments outside of crypto can be high risk. But there is also this additional layer of risk in crypto that people, I think, often don't recognize, which is that, you know, typically if you buy a high risk stock, you can at least be sure that that stock is going to be in your brokerage account the next time you check. Whereas in the crypto world, it is actually very common for companies to go under or for crypt exchanges to be hacked and have assets stolen. And so that amount of risk is also a factor. And people maybe don't recognize that quite as much.

[B]

You, like me, sound very skeptical about crypto. I would say I'm skeptical about crypto out of ignorance. I don't know enough about this stuff, so I'm just like, yeah, I'll keep my money. You sound skeptical about crypto with an abundance of knowledge. I'm curious though, what's the flip side of it? Why are there crypto enthusiasts, people who absolutely believe that this is the way of the future?

[A]

I would say it's a mix of different ideologies that sort of abound in crypto enthusiasts. Some of it is very ideological. And so it ties back to the early goals of crypto, which was to sort of remove banks from the equation or, you know, make sure that governments were not even involved in issuing the asset. There are a lot of people who are sort of digital equivalents of gold bugs, you know, who think that we should have never left the gold standard. And they see Bitcoin as sort of a similar asset class to gold because it has a limited supply, and so they think that it is a superior currency from a structural level. There are a lot of people who love cryptocurrency because they think it's their ticket to getting rich quick. You know, there have been people who have made their fortunes in bitcoin or other crypto assets because they got in early and they made a lot of money. And so people see those stories and they think, that could be me. And so they get involved in crypto speculation, hoping for the same results. And then I think there are people who have really bought into the idea that, that, you know, blockchains are a superior technology to the banking rails that we use today. That one, I think, I find the least convincing. Just because the technological promises of blockchains have been fairly limited, and we've seen, you know, how little progress there has been towards making, you know, bitcoin or some other crypto asset the currency of the future. But there are people who still believe that, you know, we just need a couple more years, and it'll be right around the corner.

[B]

What do you think is the future of regulation for cryptocurrency? Is it going to always be this kind of lawless place?

[A]

Well, I think that remains to be seen, but we've certainly seen a lot of pressure in the United States to avoid regulations, for the crypto industry to even remove regulations that were in place, the few regulations that were being enforced prior to the Trump administration. And so I think, at least for the next couple of years, we're going to see very little in the way of regulations, at least in the sense of regulations that protect consumers or, you know, prevent these businesses from engaging in abusive behaviors. I think the regulations that are being put in place and that are coming out of the cryptocurrency industry, which often claims that it actually wants regulation, are solely regulations that benefit the cryptocurrency industry and the wealthy executives running these companies. They are not the types of protections that you would hope to see in financial institutions to ensure that they are being fair and that customers are being protected. And so I think that will be the trend, at least in the near future. But I think we've also seen throughout history that what happens in the cryptocurrency world is that things get very, very inflated. We see these crypto bubbles happen over and over again where crypto prices get very high, cryptocurrency companies proliferate, and, you know, everyday people are being increasingly brought into crypto and then things get out of hand because there is very little oversight and bad behavior is very common. And at a certain point things get untenable. And so we see catastrophes like we saw in 2022 when many, many, many companies collapsed. Not just FTX. FTX is certainly the most high profile. But there were, I mean, tons and tons of crypto companies that went under because they were engaging in very risky lending or they were outright frauds that eventually reached the end of their line. And so a lot of people lost a ton of money. Crypto prices came crashing back down. That is a cycle that we've seen over and over again in the cryptocurrency world. And I worry that it will only continue and become more dramatic as the sector continues to expand. And so I do think, unfortunately, there may be this sort of natural, you know, boundary to the extent to which the crypto industry can grow under such a deregulated administration. And at some point it will unfortunately self correct in a way that is very, very painful. Painful for everyday people.

[B]

Molly, thanks for breaking all this stuff down like I've been reading and seeing all of this and of course Reveal is doing a whole story of it, but talking to you really clarified some points. So thank you so much.

[A]

Thank you for having me.

[B]

That was Molly White, an independent writer and researcher who reports extensively about technology and the influence of influx of crypto and politics. So again, we are in the middle of an incredible two part series about the fall of ftx. If you haven't heard it yet, check out last week's Reveal about what led to the collapse including exclusive prison interviews with Sam Bankman Fried and look out for part two dropping Saturday, which goes deep into the part of the FTX story that's gotten very little attention. You don't want to miss it. Lastly, a reminder that we would love for you to give us a us a like or rating on your favorite podcasting app and also tell your friends about us. It would mean the world to me. Thank you for being a part of helping Reveal thrive. This episode was produced by Josh sanburn and Carl McGurk. Allison Brett Myers edited the show theme music and engineering helped by Fernando my man Yo Arruda and Jay Breezy. Mr. Jim Briggs, I'm Al Letson and you know, let's do this again next week. This is more to the story from prx.