Podcast Summary: Reveal – "The Bible Says So…or Does It?"

Date: December 24, 2025
Host: Al Letson
Guest: Dan McClellan (Bible scholar, author, TikTok creator)

Overview of Episode Theme

This episode of Reveal dives into the persistent misinterpretations and politicizations of the Bible, the gap between scholarly understanding and public perception, and how those in power often use scripture for their own ends. Host Al Letson interviews Dan McClellan, author of "The Bible Says What We Get Right and Wrong About Scripture’s Most Controversial Issues," whose TikTok fact-checks have made him a leading voice demystifying biblical texts in the digital age.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rise of Christian Nationalism and Scriptural Abuse

• Dan McClellan highlights how scripture is seized by “Christian nationalists” to control government and justify harm.
  • Quote: “That's the hot new thing right now is to be a Christian nationalist…unfortunately, it means hurting an awful lot of people along the way.” (00:02 – Dan McClellan)

2. The Scholar’s Path: From Academia to Social Media

• Dan discusses feeling like an “academic failure” before finding his niche online, using TikTok to bridge the gap between scholarly biblical knowledge and everyday believers.
  • Quote: “There's a very big gap between…scholars and experts talk about the Bible and…folks on the street or in the pews... The more I learned…the more that gap bothered me.” (05:17 – Dan McClellan)
• He stresses that TikTok offered a platform for “calling balls and strikes,” combating misinformation without allegiance to dogma.
  • Quote: “I combat the spread of misinformation about the Bible and religion for a living. And I wouldn't take a university position right now if somebody offered me one.” (06:50 – Dan McClellan)

3. Making Scholarship Relatable

• Dan and Al share their pop-culture roots and how this accessibility appeals to broad audiences.
  • Quote: “There are an awful lot of folks out there who find my work relatable precisely because I do not come across as some stuffed shirt Ivory tower academic.” (08:14 – Dan McClellan)

4. Social Media’s Role in Spreading Scriptural Misinformation

• Al remarks on the power of social media in amplifying warped interpretations; Dan explains why the Bible is such a tempting tool for boundary-setting and justifying power.
  • Quote: “If you can leverage that [the Bible] in support of your identity... that is a very attractive instrument…[often] used as a tool against less powerful people and groups.” (09:13 – Dan McClellan)

5. “The Sin of Empathy” – A Modern Distortion

• Dan rebuts the current right-wing claim that empathy is sinful, explaining the Bible does not denounce empathy:
  • Quote: “There’s certainly no point where anyone says empathy is a sin, just in general…” (11:07 – Dan McClellan)
• He discusses how empathy can be used both positively (outward-looking) and negatively ("parochial empathy"—empathy only for one’s in-group), and how current claims about “the sin of empathy” confuse the two to protect privilege.
  • Quote: “The folks who talk about the sin of empathy are primarily defending the bad kind of empathy and criticizing the good kind of empathy. So I think they have it precisely backwards.” (13:57 – Dan McClellan)

6. The Bible as Story, Not Simple History

• Responding to Al, Dan explains the Bible is not a history book but a collection of ancient texts with diverse rhetorical and propagandistic goals.
  • Quote: “The Bible was certainly not written as a history book, and I think overwhelmingly the Bible is a collection of texts from that time period... intended to try to do certain things with the audiences.” (22:03 – Dan McClellan)

7. The “Wrathful God” of the Old Testament vs. the “Loving God” of the New Testament

• Al shares a common perception of God changing from wrathful (Old Testament) to loving (New Testament).
  • Dan clarifies there are both wrathful and loving depictions in each, and that such dichotomies can serve anti-Semitic narratives.
  • Quote: “You've got a mix of both in both sets of texts. And it's really your choice what you choose to emphasize…” (26:29 – Dan McClellan)
  • Memorable Moment: Dan recounts how a joke he once shared about "Old Testament Santa" was called out by Jewish scholars as problematic, which changed his perspective. (27:22)

8. Wealth in the Bible and the “Prosperity Gospel”

• Al recalls childhood church teachings: “it’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven.”
• Dan debunks modern attempts to reinterpret this verse to excuse wealth; insists original context is clear that riches are seen as a genuine spiritual obstacle.
  • Quote: “It’s very rare that we have someone…in a position like that…think critically enough to realize, this is about me. This is saying that I am the problem…I better fix myself.” (30:59 – Dan McClellan)

9. Personal Faith vs. Academic Study

• Al asks Dan about balancing deep scholarship with personal belief. Dan is private, but describes how he compartmentalizes the academic and devotional approaches.
  • Quote: “I have always tried very, very hard... to ensure that I was compartmentalizing my academic approach to the Bible from my devotional approach to the Bible, keeping them firmly separate, which is not an easy thing to do…” (33:06 – Dan McClellan)
• Dan identifies as a member of the LDS Church but does not engage in pastoral work, focusing instead on presenting scholarly data.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I think an awful lot of people spend an awful lot of time trying to read their own ideologies…into the text.” (09:13 – Dan McClellan)
• “Empathy is important to the survival of humanity...” (11:44 – Dan McClellan)
• [On social media distortions:] “Sometimes the image of Jesus... that comes in my mind is Jesus riding horseback on a Tyrannosaurus Rex.” (14:51 – Al Letson)
• [On his personal learning curve:] “I couldn't unsee it. Once I accepted that people with very different experiences…are going to feel differently…” (27:05 – Dan McClellan)
• [On prosperity gospel and privilege:] “What is far more common is for someone to bring their own experiences to the text and say, I was right all along.” (31:43 – Dan McClellan)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:02 – Opening on Christian nationalism and scriptural abuse
• 05:17 – Dan discusses the gap between academia and the public
• 09:13 – Social media’s amplification of biblical misinformation
• 11:07 – Addressing the “sin of empathy”
• 22:03 – The Bible: historical document or a collection of rhetorical stories?
• 24:33 – The alleged transformation of God between Testaments and anti-Semitism
• 27:05 – Dan’s personal lesson on the dangers of casual stereotypes
• 29:10 – Wealth, prosperity gospel, and the reinterpretation of "camel/eye of the needle"
• 33:06 – Balancing scholarship and faith

Final Thoughts

This episode weaves reflections on scholarship, social dynamics, and personal growth with energetic, sometimes humorous conversation. Dan McClellan provides both data-driven insight and humility, and Al Letson’s relatable perspective helps unpack how beliefs about the Bible are shaped—not just by ancient words, but by modern motivations and social structures.

For more on this topic, check out the book The Bible Says What We Get Right and Wrong About Scripture’s Most Controversial Issues and Dan McClellan’s TikTok for accessible myth-busting.