Reveal Podcast Episode Summary

Title: Trump’s Homelessness Crackdown Has Been Tried Before. It Didn’t Work.
Host: Al Letson
Guest: Sam Semberis, Clinical Psychologist and CEO of Pathways Housing First Institute
Release Date: August 13, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Reveal, host Al Letson delves into the pressing issue of homelessness in America, focusing on the controversial Housing First approach and its recent challenges under the Trump administration. The conversation centers around insights from Sam Semberis, a clinical psychologist who pioneered the Housing First model.

The Genesis of Housing First (00:02 - 06:06)

Sam Semberis begins by highlighting the cyclical nature of homelessness, where individuals are repeatedly discharged from hospitals and released from jails only to return to the streets. He emphasizes that "the only way to end homelessness is to provide housing" (00:02).

Key Points:

• Historical Context: Homelessness surged in the early 1980s following Reagan-era policies that favored supply-side economics, reducing government spending on public housing and cutting rent subsidies. This led to an increase in visible homelessness across major U.S. cities.
• Limitations of Traditional Approaches: Attempts to house individuals only after addressing mental health and addiction issues proved ineffective, as relapses were common, trapping individuals in a continuous cycle of shelter, treatment, and homelessness.
• Introduction of Housing First: Semberis developed the Housing First model, prioritizing immediate housing for the homeless without preconditions. This ground-up approach proved highly successful, reducing homelessness by nearly a third during the George W. Bush administration.

Clash with the Trump Administration’s Policies (06:06 - 10:38)

Al Letson introduces the central conflict: the Trump administration’s executive order aimed at dismantling Housing First in favor of aggressive measures to remove homeless individuals from public spaces.

Key Points:

• Executive Order Actions: President Trump announced the elimination of homeless camps around Washington, D.C., instructing individuals to "move out immediately" (06:27).
• Critique of New Policies: Semberis argues that the administration's approach is "very expensive and completely ineffective." He explains that removing individuals from the streets without providing housing leads to a costly cycle of hospitalization and incarceration without addressing the root cause of homelessness (06:27).
• Misrepresentation of Housing First: The administration is accused of twisting the language of Housing First to fit their punitive agenda, undermining the principles of treatment, recovery, and self-sufficiency that the model advocates (08:32).

Historical Parallels and Policy Failures (10:38 - 14:28)

Drawing parallels to Reagan’s policies, Semberis expresses concern over the resurgence of similar approaches under Trump.

Key Points:

• Deja Vu of Reagan-Era Policies: Semberis notes a "sinister quality" to the administration's language and actions, reminiscent of the 1980s strategies that exacerbated homelessness by focusing on individual failings rather than systemic issues (11:02).
• Structural Causes of Homelessness: High rents, low wages, and racial discrimination are identified as fundamental factors driving homelessness. Semberis emphasizes that blaming individuals ignores these broader, structural challenges (12:52).
• Racial Disparities: The overrepresentation of minorities among the homeless population highlights systemic inequalities that need addressing (12:52).

Current Homelessness Statistics and Predicted Impact (14:28 - 20:00)

The discussion shifts to the current state of homelessness and the potential consequences of the administration's policies.

Key Points:

• Homelessness Numbers: As of 2025, approximately 775,000 people experience homelessness on any given night in the U.S., a figure likely underestimated due to the narrow window of measurement in January (14:35).
• Predicted Consequences: Semberis forecasts that eliminating funding for housing while increasing expenses on hospitals and jails will result in higher homelessness rates and greater financial burdens on the government (15:06).
• Cost Analysis: He contrasts the high costs of hospitalization ($1,500 to $2,000 per day) with the relatively lower expenses of providing housing, arguing that Housing First is more economically viable and effective in the long term (15:42).

Success of Housing First and Its Current Threats (21:02 - 25:36)

Semberis details the success of Housing First programs and the threats posed by the executive order.

Key Points:

• Proven Effectiveness: Housing First has significantly reduced homelessness among populations it serves, such as Veterans, with a 56% decrease in veteran homelessness through federal Housing First initiatives (24:53).
• Threat to Existing Programs: The executive order is seen as a direct threat to all Housing First programs, potentially undermining successful models that have been embraced by agencies like HUD and the Veterans Administration (25:36).
• Lack of National Scale: While Housing First works effectively on a smaller scale, it has never been implemented nationwide. Critics may use the rising national homelessness count to argue against its efficacy, despite its success in localized settings (24:40).

Strategies to Preserve Housing First (25:36 - 28:24)

Facing the dismantling of Housing First, Semberis outlines potential strategies to sustain the program.

Key Points:

• Rebranding and Adaptation: To circumvent political opposition, Semberis suggests rebranding Housing First as simply providing housing and support services without labeling it explicitly as "Housing First" (25:56).
• Broadening Support: Emphasizing the provision of housing and community support can garner broader support and reduce pushback from administrations opposed to the Housing First nomenclature (26:31).
• Advocacy and Policy Engagement: Continued advocacy for housing and structural reforms is necessary, although Semberis remains pessimistic about immediate policy shifts even if Democrats regain power (27:05).

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reflection on the systemic challenges in addressing homelessness. Semberis underscores the need for comprehensive societal changes, including affordable housing, guaranteed healthcare, and robust support systems to truly combat homelessness. While Housing First has demonstrated success, its future remains uncertain under current political climates, highlighting the ongoing struggle between effective, compassionate policy and punitive measures.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Semberis (00:02): "The only way to end homelessness is to provide housing."
• Sam Semberis (06:27): "This is a very expensive and completely ineffective approach to homelessness because people will get discharged from the hospital, they will get released from the jail and they'll be back out on the street."
• Sam Semberis (12:52): "If you are not making enough money, if you are a member of a minority group. In every single state that we count, homeless people—minorities, blacks, Latinos, or indigenous people are always overrepresented."
• Sam Semberis (15:42): "You've spent $60,000 for a month of hospitalization, and then at the end of that month, the person is discharged back out into homelessness for $60,000... You would save a lot more money and you would house and end homelessness for a lot more people."

Additional Resources:

For those interested in exploring more about housing policies and investigative journalism, visit revealnews.org/learn.