Reveal Podcast Episode Summary: “Trump’s New World (Dis)order”

Release Date: July 26, 2025
Host: Al Letson
Produced by: The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX

Introduction

In the episode titled “Trump’s New World (Dis)order,” Reveal delves into the complexities of former President Donald Trump’s foreign policy, focusing primarily on his contentious rhetoric surrounding the Panama Canal. Host Al Letson, alongside reporters Nate Halvorson and Andrea Salcedo, investigates the real-world implications of Trump’s statements on Panama and explores the historical and present-day tensions between the United States and Panama.

Trump’s Rhetoric on the Panama Canal

The episode begins by highlighting a significant shift in Trump’s foreign policy narrative. Initially advocating for an "America First" approach with reduced overseas involvement, Trump’s inauguration speech introduced a concept reminiscent of Manifest Destiny, emphasizing American expansion and dominance.

Andrea Salcedo [00:57]: “The United States will once again consider itself a growing nation, one that increases our wealth, expands our territory, builds our cities, raises our expectations, and carries our flag into new and beautiful horizons.”

This rhetoric has sparked controversy, with Trump alleging that Panama is overcharging U.S. ships for canal crossings and falsely claiming that China is covertly operating the Panama Canal.

Andrea Salcedo [02:06]: “China is operating the Panama Canal, and we didn't give it to China, we gave it to Panama, and we're taking it back.”

On-the-Ground Impact in Panama

To understand the local response, Reveal sent reporters Nate Halvorson and Andrea Salcedo to Panama. They engaged with Panamanian citizens and officials to gauge reactions to Trump’s assertions and the subsequent Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) allowing U.S. military presence in Panama.

Protests and Public Sentiment:

Panama has witnessed significant protests against the perceived infringement on its sovereignty. Teachers, represented by Eddie Pinto, express frustration over the U.S. demands and the potential militarization of the canal area.

Eddie Pinto [05:03]: “Protests are exploding in Panama over a bunch of issues. There's the possible reopening of a controversial mind changes to the Social Security system and, well, President Trump's threats to take back the canal.”

These protests have occasionally turned violent, with police deploying tear gas to disperse demonstrators demanding the protection of Panama’s sovereignty.

Historical Context: The 1989 U.S. Invasion of Panama

The episode provides a poignant historical backdrop by recounting the U.S. invasion of Panama in December 1989, aimed at deposing Manuel Noriega. This event left deep scars, including mass graves and unresolved grievances among Panamanians.

Personal Stories:

The episode features heartfelt accounts from families of those who perished during the invasion, illustrating the lasting trauma and distrust toward any renewed U.S. military presence.

Elias Nunez [20:48]: “It's the law of life for children to bury their parents after 35 years, I was able to do that with mine. I want to thank my mom, my uncle, and a cousin who were there with me that day. That was the moment when I could finally properly bury my father.”

Parallels to Reagan’s Era and the Rise of Populist Sentiment

Reveal draws parallels between Trump’s current rhetoric and Ronald Reagan’s strategies in the 1970s. Reagan’s staunch defense of the Panama Canal against perceived threats played a pivotal role in his rise within the Republican Party, utilizing emotional and nationalistic appeals similar to those employed by Trump today.

Andrea Salcedo [30:18]: “The far right of the Republican Party joined with the John Birch Society, one of the most extreme groups out there, to make this their top issue when Jimmy Carter was president.”

The discussion underscores how both administrations leveraged nationalist sentiments to galvanize support, often at the expense of diplomatic relations and long-standing agreements.

Expert Analysis: Emma Ashford on Trump’s Foreign Policy Strategy

In an insightful interview, Emma Ashford, a columnist at Foreign Policy magazine and senior fellow at the Stimson Center, analyzes the broader strategy behind Trump’s foreign policy moves.

Coherence and Methodology:

Ashford notes the chaotic yet strategic nature of Trump’s approach, emphasizing a blend of genuine security concerns and populist tactics aimed at rallying his base.

Emma Ashford [39:27]: “In each of the three big cases here, the Panama Canal, access to military bases in Greenland, or US in the Arctic, there is sort of a genuine kernel of national security concern behind it.”

Impact on International Relations:

She highlights the strain caused by Trump’s bullying tactics, which, while achieving certain policy goals like increased European defense spending, risk alienating traditional allies and undermining global cooperation.

Emma Ashford [42:53]: “Where I really do worry with this administration, I think, is actually not on the military side or the defence side. It's on the trade side... it's business, corporations, investment.”

Implications for U.S. Foreign Policy and Global Standing

The episode concludes by reflecting on the long-term implications of Trump’s foreign policy strategies. The aggressive stance on territorial claims and military presence risks eroding trust with allies and destabilizing international relations. Moreover, the emphasis on military over diplomatic and economic tools may undermine the U.S.'s ability to effectively navigate complex global challenges.

Al Letson [45:07]: “I think that’s right. All presidential administrations vary in how much process they have internally. The Biden administration... the Trump administration is on the other end. Policy almost predominantly comes from Trump and his closest advisers and then sort of percolates downward.”

Soft Power Concerns:

Ashford emphasizes the detrimental impact of reduced soft power capabilities, such as defunding organizations like USAID and cutting State Department staff, which hampers the U.S.'s ability to influence global affairs through diplomacy and humanitarian efforts.

Emma Ashford [47:38]: “The policy choice that is the one that has me most concerned and that I think is such a bad choice is the gutting of America's soft power capabilities... cutting our tools, our ability to actually interact with other countries.”

Conclusion

“Trump’s New World (Dis)order” provides a comprehensive examination of how Trump’s assertive and often confrontational foreign policy, particularly regarding the Panama Canal, is reshaping U.S.-Panama relations and broader international dynamics. Through on-the-ground reporting and expert analysis, Reveal elucidates the deep-seated implications of these policies, highlighting the delicate balance between national security interests and maintaining harmonious global partnerships.

Notable Quotes:

• Andrea Salcedo [00:57]: “The United States will once again consider itself a growing nation, one that increases our wealth, expands our territory, builds our cities, raises our expectations, and carries our flag into new and beautiful horizons.”

• Eddie Pinto [05:03]: “Protests are exploding in Panama over a bunch of issues... President Trump's threats to take back the canal.”

• Elias Nunez [20:48]: “I want to thank my mom, my uncle, and a cousin who were there with me that day. That was the moment when I could finally properly bury my father.”

• Emma Ashford [39:27]: “In each of the three big cases here, there is sort of a genuine kernel of national security concern behind it.”

• Al Letson [45:07]: “Policy almost predominantly comes from Trump and his closest advisers and then sort of percolates downward.”

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions of the episode, providing a clear understanding for those who haven't listened to the podcast.