Trump’s Trade War Is Stressing Red State Farmers

Summary

Podcast Summary: Reveal – "Trump’s Trade War Is Stressing Red State Farmers"

Release Date: June 11, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Trump’s Trade War Is Stressing Red State Farmers," hosted by Al Letson from Reveal, the focus is on the profound impact of President Donald Trump's trade policies on farmers in red states like Missouri. The episode delves into the challenges faced by family-run farms amidst escalating tariffs, providing an intimate look into the struggles and resilience of agricultural communities.

Meet Bryant Kagi: A Family Farmer Navigating Trade Turbulence

Bryant Kagi, a fourth-generation farmer from Missouri, serves as the episode's primary guest. He manages a diversified farm that produces corn, soybeans, wheat, and operates a cattle business. Kagi shares his journey of returning to the family farm in 2018 after years in corporate roles, emphasizing the transition into a more hands-on management role within the family enterprise.

Notable Quote:

"I'm the fourth generation on our family farm... and I've continued to take more responsibility since coming back."
— Bryant Kagi [01:50]

The Ripple Effects of Trump's Trade War

The core of the discussion centers around the ramifications of Trump's trade war with China and its broader implications on the U.S. agricultural sector. Kagi explains that while tariffs may seem like an economic tool to protect domestic industries, they introduce inefficiencies and elevated costs that ripple through the entire market.

Key Points:

• Commodity Reality: Kagi highlights the commoditized nature of agricultural products. "If mine is now 20% higher or 120% higher, whatever these tariffs are, I'll just buy it somewhere else because it's the same stuff," he states (00:03).

• Market Dynamics: The imposition of steep tariffs doesn't just affect prices but disrupts established trade networks. Kagi points out that many trading systems have been in place for decades, and sudden changes force farmers to seek alternative markets, often less efficient and more costly.

• Economic Efficiency: The introduction of tariffs results in economic friction. Kagi explains, "You just kind of lose that economic efficiency the more hurdles you put in this trade deal" (05:19).

Evaluating Trump's Trade Policies and Business Acumen

Al Letson challenges Kagi on Trump's business track record, questioning the president's portrayal as a savvy businessman. He presents a timeline of Trump's bankruptcies to counter the narrative of effective business management.

Key Points:

• Bankruptcy History: Letson cites multiple bankruptcies in Trump's business ventures, questioning Kagi's support of Trump's business acumen.

• Kagi's Perspective: Initially supportive due to alignment with his policy preferences, Kagi expresses growing skepticism. "I've always questioned whether he really does [have business acumen]" (13:12), acknowledging the repeated business failures that don't necessarily align with effective management.

Notable Quote:

"I still think he's got a decent business acumen and would recognize that, yeah, we're not going to bring a bunch of manufacturing back to this country."
— Bryant Kagi [10:00]

The Human Side of Farming Economics

Kagi provides a candid look into the financial realities of farming, contrasting his stable corporate paycheck with the volatile income of agricultural operations. He discusses the significant expenses tied to crop production, the reinvestment into the business, and the complexities of maintaining profitability amidst market fluctuations.

Notable Quote:

"The issue is that we have so many expenses tied to producing that crop that really very little of it is profit."
— Bryant Kagi [18:04]

Challenges of Competing with Big Agriculture

The episode addresses the rising dominance of large-scale corporate farms and their impact on smaller family-run operations. Kagi differentiates his family farm's approach, emphasizing quality and diversity over sheer scale.

Key Points:

• Corporate vs. Family Farms: Kagi notes that large farms often receive negative press but remain family-owned, albeit with more structured management. He advocates for a diversified operation that prioritizes quality, stating, "We decided that our way to improve and build for the future was not necessarily to try to achieve scale at all costs" (20:54).

Political Polarization and Its Impact on Farming Communities

Beyond trade policies, Kagi discusses the broader issue of political polarization in America. He reflects on his personal voting decision, influenced by both candidates' shortcomings, and expresses a desire for leadership that can bridge divides.

Key Points:

• Voting Dilemma: Kagi admits, "I was not thrilled with either candidate... but ultimately, I just felt his policies long term were probably more in line with what I wanted" (10:00).

• Seeking Unity: He emphasizes the need for leaders who can bring people together, stating, "We do need some leaders who can really bridge that and try to bring people together for a greater good" (14:46).

Notable Quote:

"I'm very frustrated with this polarized... It's just not true."
— Bryant Kagi [24:26](#)

Conclusion: Resilience Amidst Uncertainty

The episode wraps up with Kagi expressing cautious optimism and a commitment to maintaining honest dialogues amidst a polarized environment. His experiences as a farmer navigating trade wars serve as a microcosm of the broader economic and political challenges facing rural America.

Notable Quote:

"I try to be a reasonable voice amidst all the polarization."
— Bryant Kagi 26:38

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Final Thoughts

"Trump’s Trade War Is Stressing Red State Farmers" offers a compelling narrative on the intersection of agricultural economics, international trade policies, and political polarization. Through Bryant Kagi's firsthand accounts, Reveal sheds light on the intricate balance farmers must maintain to sustain their livelihoods amidst global uncertainties and domestic divisions.

For more in-depth investigative stories, visit Reveal News.

Transcript

[Bryant Kagi]

What I'm selling is a commodity. Like I like to think that my corn is really good. But as far as the markets are concerned, my corn doesn't really look any different than anybody else's. So if mine is now 20% higher or 120% higher, whatever these tariffs are, I'll just buy it somewhere else because it's the same stuff.

[Al Letson]

Coming up on More to the story, Brian Kagi, a farmer from Missouri talks about running his business during a trade war with threatening tariffs. Don't go anywhere.

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[Bryant Kagi]

Foreign.

[Al Letson]

This is more to the story.

I'm Al Letson.

Since coming into office, Donald Trump has set off a trade war with China and much of the rest of the world, spreading uncertainty about markets and the US Economy. Can you imagine running a business that depends on international trade right now, especially with China? My guest today is Bryant Kagi. He runs a family farm in the red state of Missouri and selling soybeans to China is a huge part of his business.

Bryant, how you doing today?

[Bryant Kagi]

I'm doing great. Just happy to be talking with you this morning.

[Al Letson]

So tell me about your farm. From what I understand, you weren't living in this area, you weren't living in Missouri for a while and then you and your family came back.

[Bryant Kagi]

Yeah. Well, so I'm the fourth generation on our family farm. I guess my great grandfather, he started a very small operation and then my grandfather has grown it really mostly in the 60s and 70s and 80s. But yeah, following college I had a corporate job, lived in several different states. But in 2018, my wife and I decided to come back and work into the farm more in a management type role, management trainee, if you will, type role. And I've continued to take more responsibility since coming back.

[Al Letson]

How many employees do you have on the farm?

[Bryant Kagi]

Yeah, so it's myself, my dad, my 87 year old grandfather is still involved as much as he can be. And then we have two full time employees and currently one part time employee. So we're, we're fairly small operation as far as manpower goes.

[Al Letson]

What do you produce?

[Bryant Kagi]

So our main products, corn, soybeans, wheat. And then we also have a cattle operation. Many will refer to it as a cow calf. So we have cows, produce calves from them but then we also have a. Often referred to as a beef feedlot or a finishing operation that we, we feed cattle to get them right up to the point of them going to the meat processor for the. To become the finished product.

[Al Letson]

So you're running a family business that depends on international trade. We've been following President Trump's trade war with China. What would really steep tariffs mean for your farm?

[Bryant Kagi]

I think that what they mean for our farm is not that different from what they would mean to everybody. We just live in a very global economy, a global market. So many of the products that we purchase, both on the farm and within our households and within any business you run often come from overseas. You know, those, those trade networks and industries have been set up. Many of them have been in place for decades. You know, Chinese manufacturing, we've been making things in China for years and years, and they've gotten pretty good at it. They've got pretty good systems to get them shipped here. I just think steep tariffs will, at least in the, for the foreseeable future, will mostly raise the prices that everyday Americans and farmers spend on the things that they buy. So I think that's how it affects all Americans now. How does it affect me differently? Well, many of the products I sell that get shipped into overseas markets or international markets now, they are looking to buy that commodity from somewhere else. And what I'm selling is a commodity. Like, I like to think that my corn is really good, but as far as the markets are concerned, my corn doesn't really look any different than anybody else's. So if mine is now 20% higher or 120% higher, whatever these tariffs are, I'll just buy it somewhere else because it's the same stuff, right?

[Al Letson]

Are you scared that if these tariffs continue that it will basically put you out of business? Like, if China can buy soybeans from Central America at a much cheaper price than what they would buy them from you, how is that going to affect your farm in the long term, especially if these tariffs stay up for our farm?

[Bryant Kagi]

Personally, we try to manage things very financially conservative. So do I feel that a trade war would put us out of business? No, probably not. Because if a trade war puts us out of business, it's going to put a whole lot of other people out of business first. And they're business owners that have taken probably taking on more risk. And at the end of the day, though, you know, if there are, let's just put it in simple terms, like 100 units of soybeans produced globally and China uses 50 of them. Whether they get 50 from the United States or 50 from everywhere else, like all the soybeans are probably going to go somewhere and get used. It's just that friction that gets added in the system for tariffs that, well, now instead of sending multiple large container ships to China with soybeans, I've got to send 100 smaller container ships to multiple other countries to make that same sale. So you just kind of lose that economic efficiency the more hurdles you put in this trade deal.

[Al Letson]

So what do you think of Trump's.

Reasons for imposing these tariffs?

[Bryant Kagi]

Well, it depends what day you get. Right. So one day maybe I'm going to impose these tariffs because I want to bring American manufacturing back. And you think, well, there's, I could get behind parts of that in some industries, but for that to happen, like we've got to have consistent tariffs for a long time because I'm not going to come build a factory tomorrow, it's going to take years. There's whole supply chains that have to be built up around it. And if I'm an investor or a business owner, I don't want to build a factory when tomorrow he may say, well, tariffs are off, we worked out a deal. So that's on one side. It's this long term play that I want to get manufacturing and jobs back in the United States, which, yeah, I think, I don't know too many of us that would argue with that. But there's a lot of hurdles to doing that and that's a long term play. And then the other side is, well, I'm just using it as a bargaining chip. Right. I'm going to get him to the table and get better deals. And he's maybe done some of that. I don't know. I'm not 100% confident that he has a really clear vision for exactly how this plays out. I think, I don't know, it's been so uncertain to whether are these short term, we're going to try to get short term deals or is this a long term strategic. We're going to rebuild American manufacturing and I don't know where it is because it changes every week.

[Al Letson]

Yeah. And when we talk about like, is it a long term goal? I've done a lot of reporting on manufacturing in the past and the thing that keeps coming to me is that it may be a long term goal that is really unrealistic in the sense that like I can't imagine Americans going to work in manufacturing plants where the pay is not going to be the type of pay, that the reason why all the manufacturing is in different parts of the world is because their economies are different and people will go in there and work for a couple dollars an hour. Where ye, as here in America, people would need government aid to survive off of working in a factory if we were paying the same amount to workers that they do in China. So it doesn't feel like a realistic goal to me. It feels like manufacturing at that scale is kind of in our past and not really in our future.

[Bryant Kagi]

Yeah, I completely agree. I just think, yeah, if you want to talk automobile manufacturing or some of those kind of higher level, more, more advanced type manufacturing, like, yeah, and maybe there's a national defense reason we need more computer chip manufacturing in the country. But if you think we're going to have a, you know, a Nike sneaker factory in the country, like, come on, these other countries have been doing this for decades. They're good at it. They've got systems set up. They've got the people to work there. I don't know any of my neighbors who want to go set at a sewing machine and run a, and make, make T shirts all day. Like, that's just, that's not what this country's going to do. It's probably not realistic.

[Al Letson]

Yeah. So all that being said, in 2024, you voted for Trump, knowing that this may be what he would do, how did you come to the decision to vote for him?

[Bryant Kagi]

That's, that's, that is a very good question. And it was something that I struggled with to be, you know, to be 100% honest. I was not thrilled with either candidate. I'm a little bit embarrassed that on the global stage, these are the best two candidates that we could, we could come up with out of this great country. I was very uncomfortable with the Harris campaign on some social issues. Some other things. I was very uncomfortable with the Trump campaign on a lot of, I guess his personal character issues that I'm very uncomfortable with. I don't think it represents our country very well, what we stand for, very well. Ultimately, I just felt his policies, because you look at what a president can do, and I felt like his policies long term were probably more in line with what I wanted. But this was not something that I was really sold on either way. So I did know that these trade wars were possibly coming. I also felt that his business experience, I guess I felt much like he says some of the time that he would use these type of things as a bargaining token. But at the end of the day, I do feel he's got a decent business acumen and would recognize that, yeah, we're not going to bring a bunch of manufacturing back to this country. Yeah, maybe we should use our power on the global stage to get some better trade deals. I was hopeful that amidst all the rhetoric and all the talk that he would use them maybe more wisely than I feel he has to this point.

[Al Letson]

Let me run down some numbers for you here just to like, because I want to poke at something. You said that he's got a good business acumen. In 1991, his casino, the Taj Mahal, bankrupt. 1992, Trump Plaza Hotel, bankrupt. Castle Hotel Casino 92, bankrupt. Trump Hotels, Casino and Resorts in 2004, bankrupt. Trump Entertainment Resorts in 2009, bankrupt. I could go on. There's more. I would just say that.

The way.

We have talked about Trump, both in the media, both in. Because I believe that like the reality show that he was on where he's got that great saying, you're fired, it's myth building. It makes this idea that he is a really great businessman. But the truth of the matter is that when you look into his business deals, I mean, he had a college that the government had to sanction and shut down because it was ultimately deemed, and I may be putting it in colloquial terms, but it was ultimately deemed a scam. So, I mean, how do you feel about that when you think about it, looking at it from this vantage point?

[Bryant Kagi]

Yeah, maybe I should have rephrased my previous statement as he has given us this idea that he has a lot of business acumen. I've always questioned whether he really does or not because I see those things that you've mentioned. Apparently he's been pretty good at running failed businesses and enriching himself, which that kind of is what pointed to a lot of the character issue that I had voting for him to begin with. I mean, that's one of the, one of the character issues. I still think, you know, it's no, no secret. Like, I live in a very red area and the people I talk to, I think there's still some that are, are they still are very confident that he has this really good plan that this is all going to work out for the better. And I, I guess I don't necessarily, I don't have that much confidence. I think he's, he's doing a lot of running his mouth without much of a plan and maybe it'll end up okay in the end if he throws his power around enough. But I'm a little more skeptical.

[Al Letson]

Coming up. Bryant recognizes the divisions in our country and feels that we need to find a way to bring both side together.

[Bryant Kagi]

You just see these presidential elections that are so evenly split, so much urban rule, so much, you know, class based voting. And I, it's, it's not good for our country and we, we do need some leaders who can really bridge that and, and try to bring people together for a greater good.

[Al Letson]

Before we get to that, we are entering the summer months and that means more time to hang out with me, your favorite host. Now look, I know Reveal is already queued up for that long road trip or maybe some time alone on the beach. We can hang out there. It'll be great. But listen, don't keep Reveal all to yourself. Tell your friends about us. Feel free to give us a rating and review and help others discover the award winning reporting from Reveal. Okay, we're back soon with more. Don't go anywhere.

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[Misa]

Hey, this is Misa from Reveal. How many episodes have you listened to? 5, 500. And how many times have you donated? It's free to listen to these shows, but great journalism is anything but free to produce. It takes millions of dollars a year to make Reveal and the truth is it would not be possible if listeners did not support it. So please donate today. Just text the word give to 88857 reveal. That's 888-577-3832 or visit revealnews.org donate thank you.

[Al Letson]

This is more to the story. I'm Al Letson talking with Bryant Kagi, a farmer from Missouri who's been figuring out how to run a business that depends on international trade during, let's say, a tumultuous time. So, Bryant, your farm has been in your family for a very long time. How have you seen farming change over the years?

[Bryant Kagi]

You know, there have been a lot of changes in agriculture over the long term. You know, when I think about my great grandfather, you know, he would have started with some horse drawn equipment, likely moved into tractors pretty quickly thereafter, but nothing on the scale of what we use today. We also, there's a lot of technology that we Use to try to make sure every product we use gets put in the right place at the right time. And we are just better at conserving land and water resources as well.

[Al Letson]

I've done a lot of reporting with farmers in the past and the one thing that I think our listeners may not understand or know is really like the economics of farming.

So I'm just curious if you can.

Kind of break down for my listeners like what's your income like and how do you get that income? Like do you get a big check from delivering cows to market? Like how does all that work?

[Bryant Kagi]

I think from the outside people see we deliver a lot of high value products. Whether it's right now cattle are at record highs. The checks we receive from selling cattle are very high. The checks we receive from selling grain can, can be very big. To the, you know, the average American, that's a lot of money. The issue is that we have so many expenses tied to producing that crop that really very little of it is profit. As far as like the money, you know, when I had a corporate job, I had a paycheck every two weeks. I had so much money that went into my bank account and that was very reliable and consistent with this. It's a lot more inconsistent. And you find the business can pay for a lot of our living expenses. So our, my out of pocket expenses are, are less. But I don't take just regular, you know, regular paychecks. Mostly what we do is we take our profits and invest those back into the business through land and equipment that, you know, it's like this business is kind of as it's built in 401k that you're, you're investing in assets all the time and eventually you hope to get a pretty big asset base. But you don't do it through collecting a lot of cash in your bank account. It goes elsewhere.

[Al Letson]

When it comes to competition, it seems to me that you are dealing with different factors than your dad had, than your grandfather, than your great grandfather had. And I'm thinking of specifically with the rise of big agriculture and these, these big company farms that you know, I would imagine make it hard to compete because of the resources that they have.

[Bryant Kagi]

Yeah, I think what's often referred to as corporate farms probably get a lot of bad press. I think there, there can be some confusion. And just because you're a really large farming operation doesn't mean it's not still family owned and operated. But it may not still have that same family feel that I feel our operation does. As you get Bigger, you do have to put some corporate structure, mid level managers, a lot more process and procedure in place. We have seen, you know, over the past 10 years especially some of the very biggest producers have continued to grow and I think the economics have worked out for them to do that and they've really built systems and as equipment gets bigger they're just able to cover a lot more acres. I think for our operation we decided that our way to improve and build for the future was not necessarily to try to achieve scale at all costs, but to try to focus more on a more diverse operation and also just produce, let's say higher quality over quantity, let's put it that way.

[Al Letson]

Yeah. So take me back to 2018 when President Trump imposed tariffs on China. This is right around the time when you are starting to come back to the farm. How that affect you and your family.

[Bryant Kagi]

Yeah, so that was an interesting year. We had a pretty severe drought that first summer. I came back and, and then trade war with China on top of that. So it was a, it was a pretty rough year that first year. But I guess I was still getting my feet under me. So there was maybe, maybe I didn't fully grasp, I just thought that was normal. But that first trade war, it did severely affect the price of soybeans, primarily because China is such a huge buyer of US soybeans. We produce a lot of soybeans and when your largest customer, the harder you make that to do trade with them, that directly affects our bottom line. And you know, then on top of that they come through with these direct payments from the government that I think are a touchy subject amongst farmers. I'm not going to tell you we turned ours away. You feel like it's a competitive market, you can't reject it on principle. But at the same time I don't think any of us feel like that's how we want markets to operate. Like we try to be self sufficient and run our business in a way that can be profitable. And let me do that. I don't need the government to come in and write me a check. Check to make sure I stay in business.

[Al Letson]

Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you is like why do you think it's a, a touchy subject?

[Bryant Kagi]

Well, I think if you ask many people in the parts of the country I live about welfare programs, snap, they would probably, they might look at those with a negative light. Right. This idea that hey, I work really hard to support myself, I don't need the federal government coming in and doing that. For me. And then all of a sudden I'm a farmer and I'm taking this check from the government because, you know, government induced terrorists reduce the value of my product. At the same time, I don't know any farmer who turned theirs away who said, well, I don't believe in it, so I'm not going to accept it. Like we all took it. But I ultimately think it's really, those programs aren't administered very well on who actually needs them the worst. And also, if you give all a certain number of farmers in the same area a whole bunch of money, it's no different than the COVID payments that drove a lot of inflation. Right. You can't just hand out a bunch of money and not have other effects in the economy. And I think we saw that as well through that.

[Al Letson]

So there's a lot of debate about whether those payments actually helped or hurt. And I'll let economists argue over that. The thing that stands out for me when I think about those payments is that when Trump did it, the left complained and when Biden did it, the right complained. So to me, what it tells me is that America has turned politics into sports. You know, maybe neither party is functioning or serving Americans particularly well, but because of team loyalty, people just kind of go with it. And sometimes they vote not for their interests, but for the team that they represent, their home team, the thing that they feel strongly about.

[Bryant Kagi]

Yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons that our political system has drifted this way. You know, I live in a congressional like a House district that there is virtually zero chance that it would ever flip to blue. So I think our incumbent, as long as he continues to say and do right leaning things like he's never going to be challenged and he's never going to be held to account for how much he actually accomplishes because hey, he's on my team. So I'm not going to go against something that my team wants, but it's something that American politics really has to figure out. Because I think we continue to go through these cycles where really nothing really happens. And I just think with this many smart people, we have to be able to come together and come up with solutions that maybe both the, the edges of both sides are not thrilled with, but ultimately move our country forward. And I don't know what it's going to take to get there. But I too am very frustrated with this polarized I pick my team, the other team can do nothing right and my team can do nothing wrong because we just know that's just not how it works and it's just not true. I'm not confident enough in my own abilities, knowledge, biases to think that I have all the solutions to make all this better. I know we need both sides to be able to come together, but our political system, our primaries, there's so many reasons why that doesn't happen and I don't know what it's going to take to break. But you just see these presidential elections that are so evenly split, so much urban rule, so much class based voting and it's not good for our country. And we do need some leaders who can really bridge that and try to bring people together for a greater good.

[Al Letson]

You just gave a great campaign speech. I'm just saying. I'm just saying you're looking for an answer and I think you might be it. I'm just saying. Brian Kagi, thank you so much for talking to me and thank you for being open, man. We could just have a good conversation. I'm going to be thinking about this conversation for days to come. I really appreciate it.

[Bryant Kagi]

Thank you. I enjoy it. I try to be open and honest and I appreciate those kind words. I try to be a reasonable voice amidst all the polarization. So thank you.

[Al Letson]

That was Brian Kagi, a farmer from Missouri.

If you liked this episode, I really.

Think you should check out the Reveal episode, the many contradictions of a Trump victory where we meet people behind Donald Trump's red wave, including voters like Brian Kagi who were on the fence about their decision. Lastly, just a reminder, we are listener supported. That means listeners like you. You can help us thrive by making a gift today. Just go to revealnews.org gift again, that's revealnews.org gift and thank you. This episode was produced by Josh sanburn and Kara McGurk.

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Fernando my man Yo Arruda and Jay Breezy. Mr. Jim Briggs, I'm Al Letson and.

You know, let's do this again next week.

This is more to the story.

At.

[Misa]

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