Avoiding Burnout with Marcy Stoudt

Summary

Revenue Builders Podcast: "Avoiding Burnout with Marcy Stoudt"

Date: November 16, 2025
Hosts: John McMahon & John Kaplan
Guest: Marcy Stoudt, CEO and Co-Founder of Revel

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Episode Overview

This episode of Revenue Builders, hosted by John McMahon and John Kaplan, features Marcy Stoudt, CEO and co-founder of Revel. Marcy is a seasoned coach who specializes in helping leaders avoid burnout and achieve professional and personal balance without sacrificing success. The conversation delves into the reality of burnout, practical exercises to manage it, and actionable strategies for prioritization, with honest reflections from all speakers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Understanding Burnout in Leadership

• Burnout Is Universal: The hosts note that burnout isn’t just for parents or those with heavy personal obligations; it’s especially prevalent and damaging for leaders who "lose themselves" and subsequently the ability to lead effectively. (00:43)

• Emotional Cycles at Year-End: Marcy discusses the cyclical nature of motivation and dread leaders feel at the end of the year—either "game on, I got this," or a wave of anxiety about repeating the grind. Where your energy trends is where burnout can follow. (01:17)

  "You kind of get to this point at year-end and then your attitude or your number for next year, it’s one of two directions, right? It’s like, 'Game on, I got this!' or it’s, 'Oh crap...'"
  —Marcy Stoudt (01:32)

The "Above the Line" Practice

• Defining ‘Above the Line’: Marcy introduces her daily practice of "living above the line," meaning clarity about who you are, your vision, and embodying those traits daily—not delaying personal fulfillment until reaching arbitrary goals. (01:50)

• Visualization Exercise: She recommends getting specific about the person you want to be (e.g., a balanced leader/present parent) and visualizing daily opportunities to embody that vision (e.g., being present when children return home). (02:40)

• Pre-Planning for Triggers: The real challenge is preempting and preparing for the 'below the line' triggers—such as unexpected work conflicts, guilt, or shame—which fuel negative cycles and burnout. (03:35)

  "What negative events and emotions are going to get in the way of you being the person you want to be more often? That’s living below the line."
  —Marcy Stoudt (04:27)

Prioritization and the "To Don't" List

• Establishing Priorities: Marcy advocates for setting not only ‘to-do’ priorities at work and home, but also a ‘to-don’t’ list—commitments or habits that no longer serve your vision or well-being. (05:14)

• Clearing Calendar Clutter: Leaders often stack additional responsibilities (committees, mentorship, unpaid leadership efforts) by default, contributing to burnout long after their purpose has expired. (05:35)

  "Some of the stuff on the calendar isn't serving who you want to be more often—the above the line person of who you are today."
  —Marcy Stoudt (05:41)

• Promoting Others & Letting Go: A powerful tactic is to empower others to take over responsibilities you’ve outgrown, rather than holding on due to habit or ego. (06:20)

The ‘Team’s Addiction to You’

• The Third Addiction: Marcy identifies the "team’s addiction to you" as a hidden risk for executive burnout—leaders create dependency by micromanaging or inserting themselves unnecessarily, preventing growth for the team and themselves. (06:58)

  "A lot of executives... it's actually just a subtle micromanagement. You don't even realize you're doing it."
  —Marcy Stoudt (06:58)

• Self-Reflection: The hosts reflect on their own struggles letting go of calls or meetings that once gave them a sense of relevance or ‘juice.’ Letting go is necessary to scale leadership. (07:31)

  "It became a self-fulfilling prophecy—I couldn't lead more than a small group of people unless I learned how to break that addiction."
  —John McMahon (07:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Defining Above/Below the Line:

  "Above the line to me is you're really clear on who you are, who you want to be, what your vision looks like... Below the line is when you react to negative triggers—that’s where you create a negative mindset."
  —Marcy Stoudt (02:00–04:27)

• On the ‘To Don’t’ List:

  "Sometimes, for instance, we just keep piling on stuff... but it’s not serving you anymore. You just really didn't think through—Am I allowed to step down from this committee?"
  —Marcy Stoudt (05:24)

• Micromanagement as Addiction:

  “That’s pretty profound...and a lot of executives, that’s causing burnout and it’s actually just a subtle micromanagement. You don’t even realize you’re doing it.”
  —Marcy Stoudt (06:58)

• Letting Go as Leadership Growth:

  "My inability to extricate myself from those situations, it became a self-fulfilling prophecy... unless I learned how to break that addiction.”
  —John McMahon (07:45)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:43] – Discussing the reality and consequences of leader burnout
• [01:17] – Emotional cycles at year-end and its impact on burnout
• [01:50 – 04:27] – Marcy’s “Above the Line/Below the Line” daily practice explained
• [05:14] – Prioritization exercises: To-Do, To-Don’t lists, and calendar decluttering
• [06:58] – The third addiction: Your team’s dependency on the leader
• [07:31 – 07:45] – Host reflections on letting go to scale leadership

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Takeaways

• Burnout is a nuanced, personal challenge—awareness and proactive reflection are crucial.
• Living ‘above the line’ is about daily choices aligned with a clear vision of self, not waiting for future milestones.
• Prioritization (including what NOT to do) is a critical skill for leaders trying to sustain high performance and wellbeing.
• Leaders must foster independence and growth in their teams to avoid creating dependencies that feed their own need for validation and contribute to burnout.
• Letting go of unnecessary involvement is essential for both leader and team development.

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This episode provides practical guidance and thought-provoking insights for anyone feeling the weight of leadership and responsibility—offering both the philosophy and tactical examples to start breaking the burnout cycle.

Transcript

[Marcie Stout]

Foreign.

[Podcast Host]

Welcome to the Revenue Builders podcast with John McMahon and John Kaplan. This podcast is brought to you by Force Management. Force Solutions help companies, small teams, and individuals accelerate sales performance. Be sure to check out their online platform, Ascender. Today we talk burnout with Marcie Stout, CEO and co founder of Revel. Coach Marci helps leaders avoid burnout become their best selves without sacrificing success in either area. In this segment, she covers a few tips to avoiding that dreaded burnout. John McMahon kicks it off.

[John Kaplan]

Can you talk a little bit more about the burnout? Because even people that are not moms, you know, can get to that burnout stage where, especially as a leader, when you lose yourself, you know, you lose your ability to have perspective, and then you lose your ability to really lead the team.

[Marcie Stout]

Yeah.

[John Kaplan]

And there's a fine line between maybe working too hard and being maybe. Maybe it goes back to your point, being addicted. And then next thing you know, you're getting really close to burnout.

[Marcie Stout]

Yeah. I mean, it's real. And, you know, you can't generically say how to prevent it or how to. How to, you know, heal it if you're in that thing. But the one, you know, the one thing that I like to coach to a lot and hopefully to any of your listeners that are out there, like, end of the year is a. Is a great time of year because you feel like a little of this clean slate, but it's all the time. You have fear, like, oh, my gosh, can I do this again next year? Like, you. You kind of. Everybody pauses a little bit, and then your attitude or your number of next year, it's one or two directions, right? It's your, like, game on. I got this. This is my year. Or it's. Or it's kind of like, oh, crap, you know, like. And you have, like, that dread. So depending on where your energy is going is going to be where your burnout's going. So, like, the exercise I like to do, and this is kind of like a daily practice that I have. I. I do. Because, you know, as an entrepreneur, we're doing a lot of stuff. You know, there's a lot of things pulling at you, and I'm trying to make sure I'm. I don't have those three addictions myself. Um, but what a daily practice that I do is, you basically, you think about living above the line. So above the line to me is you're really clear on who you are, who you want to be, what your vision looks like, and doing it in A way that you're defining like, okay, this is who I want to be more often. And not thinking that you need to be like, when I say this much amount of money, then I'll go on vacation. When I get to this title, then it's like, who do you want to be more often? So if you're, you know, say just a sales rep and you want to be a sales leader in that moment, in that day, like I want to be a sales leader and I want to make a difference and you know, teach more people how to be successful and have a legacy that does that. And they're only a sales rep at this point. Well, then you ask the question, you know, you kind of get them to really kind of define it. So this is just a self practice. And you're like, well, what does that look like? You try to bring in the census, like, give me like a visual. What is she wearing? How does she sound? What did she do today? And then the second thing you do is like, you kind of put action behind it today. So you think of your calendar and you think of an opportunity that you can live up to that person. That's your vision. So if she like wants to be balanced at home, like the example, John, you were sharing about, you know, being more present at home, like, I want to be a leader who loves her job, but when I come home, I'm able to be present with my kids. So then you look to your calendar and like, all right, 4 o', clock, 3:30 when the kids get off the bus. That's my opportunity. I know I've got conference calls later, but that's my opportunity to be the present mom that I want to be. So how do you handle it? And then you just think through and you pre pave what that looks like. So snacks are out. I mean, whatever it looks like for her. I know we're talking in this type of scenario, but in her scenario that's what it looks like. But then the real work for burnout comes with what negative events and emotions are going to get in the way from you being the person you want to be more often. And that's living below the line. So that's traffic, that's oh my God, I'm late. This conference call went over to 4:30 and now I'm not there for the kids. Shame, guilt, dah dah dah. All those things happen. And so there is a reaction to that. And the reaction below the line is that's kind of where you start, create like a habit and that Negative mindset.

[John McMahon]

Was there some reason why you didn't share this with me 15 years ago? When you want operate below the line, folks, where you've been hiding all this stuff, right?

[John Kaplan]

And then, Marcy, do you have people actually walk through, like, priorities then of like, here's my priority at work, here's my priority at home, here's my priority in my life. And then try to see the crossover points where to your point earlier, now you're home, now you got to drop the work stuff because the kids are getting off the bus. You know, do. Do you have them set those types of priorities?

[Marcie Stout]

Absolutely. So we do a, you know, like kind of we'll do a prioritization list, which I love doing, and then we do a to don't list. Like, what's in your to do list? What's in your to don't list? And so sometimes, like, for instance, we just keep piling on stuff. So you joined a committee three years ago, and it's awesome. And that committee takes 90 minutes of that day, but it's not serving you anymore. You just really didn't think through, like, am I allowed to step down from this committee? So some of the stuff on the calendar isn't serving who you want to be more often the above the line person of who you are today. So like me, for instance, where I kind of had like, you know, towards the end of my 22 years with tech and allegiance group, you know, I definitely had some moments where I was below the line. I didn't realize it at the time, but some of it was because, you know, they say, like, a lot of the statistics you'll see right now, 2022 statistics, the percentage of top women in leadership that are running mentor groups, leadership groups and all that stuff because they love the company, they're doing all this great stuff to help other leaders. And that's their passion, all that stuff. They don't get paid for it. They don't get recognized for it. It is exhausting. So when I go through her calendar and I'm like, well, talk to me about this. I'm like, well, why are you still the one mentoring? Like, when do you start promoting people that you've men delete it. And so clearing clutter from her calendar is really important. And just doing it to align to her vision of success with no comparison, like, who do you want to be? So you've graduated, you know, you're not in the fight anymore. So now what's this executive level feeling like? And how do you ask more questions versus tell people what to do more often, which is a third addiction. I'm so I never shared. The third addiction is your team's addiction to you.

[John Kaplan]

Yeah, I was wondering.

[Marcie Stout]

It's pretty like that's pretty profound. And a lot of executives that's causing burnout and it's actually just a subtle micromanagement. You don't even realize you're doing it. So going through the calendar and the priority list is a great way of really saying like, is there something that should be on my to don't list?

[John Kaplan]

Yeah, like maybe you help somebody be able to get certain meetings, let's say with an economic buyer and now they can do it on their own. Do you really need to go to the next meeting or can you let them do it on their own? Things like that. I think you're talking about and being.

[John McMahon]

Honest with yourself about the addiction. So I found in my career, John, that main question, what I would tell people, hey, I don't need to. I don't think I really need to be on that call or what have you. But it was a big part of my addiction early on in my leadership careers where that's where I got my juice from, that's where I got my fuel from. But my inability to extricate myself from those situations, it became a self fulfilling prophecy. I couldn't lead more than a small group of people unless I learned how to break that addiction.

[Podcast Host]

You can hear Marci talk about these leadership addictions in the full episode linked in the show notes. Make it a great week.