Revenue Builders Podcast: “Hiring Top Sales Talent: What the Best Companies Do”

Date: March 10, 2024
Hosts: John McMahon (Five-time CRO), John Kaplan (Co-Founder, Force Management)
Guest: J.R. Butler (Founder, Shift Group)

Episode Overview

This episode explores how top companies identify, attract, and develop elite sales talent—particularly those transitioning from athletics and military backgrounds. J.R. Butler, whose firm specializes in placing athletes and veterans in sales roles, joins the hosts in discussing the organizational traits, leadership mindsets, and practical steps that set great hiring companies apart. The conversation offers actionable insights for both hiring leaders and job seekers on what truly enables sales excellence.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining “A Players”—Traits of Top Sales Talent

• Hungry to learn and do more
• Self-starters with a no-victim mentality
• Persistent, never quit, eager to learn from mistakes
• Need a culture that fosters ongoing growth and expertise
  • “They’re hungry to learn and do more. They’re self-starters with like a no-victim mentality and they never quit and they learn from their mistakes.” —J.R. Butler [00:47]

2. Organizational Culture: Not Just Perks, But Purpose

• Selling the opportunity is important: “You can make a lot of money. We’re going to get bought, we're going to go public.”
• But it’s about much more: True “culture” is how people behave when “nobody’s looking.”
  • “People think culture nowadays is funny hat Fridays on Zoom, right? Or Happy Hour. I'm a believer...culture is what people do when nobody's looking.” —J.R. Butler [01:33]
• Develop a culture of growth, practice, and clear goals.
• Reward development and expertise, not just social engagement.

3. The Leader vs. The Manager

• Leaders cultivate development; managers just give orders.
  • “They tell people what to do. Right. I wouldn’t even call them leaders. They’re managers. Right. Which are different than leaders.” —J.R. Butler [03:05]
• Hiring doesn’t end at recruitment; it’s about investing in the person’s journey within the context of their background and strengths.
• Understand the nuances of diverse candidate backgrounds—athletes, veterans, career-changers.

4. Matching Candidate and Company — Walking Away When It’s Wrong

• J.R. Butler on vetting companies: Will walk away if a client’s development culture is lacking, even at the expense of revenue.
  • “We’ve walked away from the opportunity to make revenue if we feel like that growth and development is the most important aspect.” —J.R. Butler [03:59]
• Short-term fit leads to attrition; long-term excellence requires mutual investment.
• Network reputations matter: Poor hiring experiences can ripple out due to the connectedness of athlete and veteran networks.

5. “Choose Your Hard” — Recruiting for Excellence vs. Perks

• Hard work needed both to build a culture of excellence and to settle for the wrong hires.
  • “It’s kind of like the old saying, like, choose your hard. Yes. It’s going to be hard to recruit these type of people or you can...focus on these other things...but those aren’t going to be the right people for your sales organization.” —J.R. Butler [05:19]

6. Office vs. Remote Work: Mindset as a Qualifier

• First question for candidates: Location and willingness to be mentored in person matter, especially for young or early-career individuals.
  • “If I talk to a 23-year-old kid ... and they’re like, yeah, I only want to live in central Ohio and I only want a remote job. That’s a great indicator for us. Like, all right, do they really want it that bad?” —J.R. Butler [06:28]

7. “Sell the Opportunity”—Why Your Company? Why You?

• Interviewees and interviewers must be able to articulate why the company and the leadership are worth joining.
  • “Why would somebody want to work for this company? Go. And having to be audible ready at any point in time to be able to say that, why would somebody want to work for this company?” —John Kaplan [07:00]
• Dual interview process: Candidates are interviewing the company and the leader, not just the other way around.
  • “They look at the interview as, like, I’m interviewing this candidate ... but they never look at it as, like, the candidate’s also interviewing me as the leader.” —John McMahon [08:06]

8. Athlete & Veteran Expectations: Spotting Authenticity

• Sophisticated recruits spot insincerity—don’t oversell perks, oversell development.
  • “They are used to looking at BS. They’re used to looking at a program that says, come here. It’s all about grades. It's all about whatever... and they're like, that’s not what's here.” —John Kaplan [08:44]

9. Legendary Coaches as Models for Building a Talent-Development Culture

• Success is built on development, not just raw opportunity.
  • “All six of those coaches took over programs that were garbage, like, complete garbage. But then they won pretty quickly...They were selling: hey, you’re going to come in here and you’re going to be ten times better in a year because of it.” —J.R. Butler [10:12]
• Get candidates excited about how the company and its leaders will directly make them better every day.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• J.R. Butler on the reality of hiring for true excellence:
  “If we don’t hear what we want to hear, we will walk away because we’re both going to fail. Our candidate's going to fail and not make it a full 90 to 180 days. And the company is going to fail because they’re going to have to deal with attrition, which is the most expensive part of running a sales organization.” [04:13]

• John Kaplan’s challenge:
  “Why would somebody want to work for this company? ... For our listeners, if you are looking at a company, I want you to be prepared to ask somebody this question. If you are leading a company, I want you to be prepared to answer that question.” [07:00]

• J.R. Butler on legendary coaches:
  “All those coaches have examples like that so you can sell the opportunity. You also got to recruit based off of the development culture and the people that get excited about that.” [10:12]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:39 — Defining “A Players” and traits of elite sales talent
• 02:30 — Company culture, development, and leadership nuance
• 03:52 — Knowing when not to place a candidate; the cost of misfit hires
• 05:08 — The challenge of building a culture of excellence vs. superficial perks
• 06:01 — Remote vs. in-person work priorities for athletes/veterans
• 07:00 — The importance of selling both the company and the leader in interviews
• 10:08 — Lessons from legendary coaches: development-first recruitment

Actionable Takeaways

• For Leaders:

  • Build a genuine culture of practice, growth, and clarity.
  • Know and sell why your company—and your leadership—matters to potential hires.

• For Candidates:

  • Evaluate companies’ and leaders’ commitment to your development, not just flashy perks.
  • Be ready to ask, “How will you make me a better salesperson?”

• For Both:

  • Recognize that fit and investment go both ways. Both parties must be clear and intentional for long-term success.

Episode Summary by Force Management's Revenue Builders Podcast, March 10, 2024