Intention and Delegation with Tom Heiser

Summary

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Episode Overview

Episode Title: Intention and Delegation with Tom Heiser
Podcast: Revenue Builders
Hosts: John McMahon & John Kaplan
Guest: Tom Heiser (Technology executive and leader)
Date: September 28, 2025

This episode dives into the critical leadership themes of intentionality and delegation, focusing on how giving teams accountability can significantly impact business outcomes. Drawing from decades of leadership experience, Tom Heiser joins the hosts to explore the difference between transactional and transformational management, the importance of authenticity in empowerment, and the military-inspired concept of "commander's intent" as a framework for effective delegation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Authenticity in Empowerment

• Empowerment Can’t Be Superficial

  • Tom Heiser underscores the frustration and demotivation teams experience when leaders claim to delegate responsibility but retain a "pocket veto," ultimately undermining trust and ownership.
    • Quote:

      "Somebody tells you you're empowered but holds a pocket veto... There's very few things that are less motivating than that."
      — Tom Heiser, 00:37

• Real Empowerment Requires Letting Go

  • John McMahon shares a story about a staged decision-making process at EMC—revealing how contrived inclusion and predetermined outcomes erode morale and authenticity.
    • Quote:

      "You think this is a charade. You know, that's your word. But I know you already had this all planned out... That's not authentic."
      — John McMahon, 01:14

2. Transactional vs. Transformational Management

• John Kaplan contrasts environments where leadership is merely about exchange ("you sell, I pay you") to those fostering genuine growth through accountability, development, and autonomy.
  • Quote:

    "This whole podcast so far you've been talking about transformational management... [where leaders] give you full responsibility and hold you accountable, but it wasn't just a plain old transaction."
    — John Kaplan, 01:35

3. The Importance of Accountability and Follow-Through

• Leaders must make it clear that what they ask teams to deliver is meaningful by deliberately checking in and following up, regardless of the setting (formal reviews, dashboards, even informal chats).
  • Quote:

    "How many times have you been asked by a boss to go do something and they never ask you about it again? It's so demotivational... He would inspect it... and then it kept you honest."
    — John McMahon, 02:18

4. Commander’s Intent: Military Principles for Business Leadership

• Tom Heiser introduces the powerful military-origin concept of “commander’s intent,” emphasizing clarity of objectives and giving teams latitude to achieve results in their own way.

  • The concept helps differentiate between team members who thrive with broad guidance versus those who need step-by-step supervision.

  • At Force Management, hiring includes identifying candidates who can operate within the boundaries of intent.

    • Quote:

      "Commander's intent is the people have the ability to understand the commander's intent. And they can go and operate within the commander's intent... But there's also those people that don't operate very well in commander's intent."
      — Tom Heiser, 03:05

  • Real-world observation: Some team members over-deliver when given autonomy, while others need frequent guidance. Recognizing this allows leaders to structure teams and responsibilities more effectively.

    • Quote:

      "Why do I struggle to tell something to one person, and they go and deliver something to me more powerful than I thought? And then other people, I feel like they have to keep coming back."
      — Tom Heiser, 04:45

5. Self-Awareness and Expectations for Leaders and Teams

• It's crucial for both leaders and team members to know whether they work well with high-level guidance or require specific, detailed direction.

  • Quote:

    "If you're self-aware, you probably know where you sit on that spectrum."
    — Tom Heiser, 05:32

• Leaders should avoid overwhelming teams by measuring them on too many criteria, which leads to paralysis and confusion.

  • Quote:

    "Leaders will paralyze some of their people when they give them like eight different ways in which they measure them. And then the people can't get out of bed in the morning... Like, I just don't know exactly what he wants from me."
    — John Kaplan, 05:58

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Empowerment without true autonomy is hollow:

  "There's very few things that are less motivating than that as it relates to this empowerment."
  — Tom Heiser, 00:37

• Predetermined empowerment is transparent and demotivating:

  "I know you already had this all planned out. That's not authentic."
  — John McMahon, 01:14

• Leaders must inspect what they expect:

  "It kept you honest. But it was also.... You knew it was important. If he was exerting the energy again to ask about that again, he was asking you to do something that was important."
  — John McMahon, 02:31

• Commander's Intent enables creative and autonomous delivery:

  "The beauty for the leader is they come back with things that are even more powerful than you thought they could be when you allowed them to, you know, for the empowerment."
  — Tom Heiser, 03:40

• Too many metrics can paralyze progress:

  "Leaders will paralyze some of their people... Like, I just don't know exactly what he wants from me. I've seen that movie many times."
  — John Kaplan, 05:58

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:37 – Tom Heiser on fake empowerment and the “pocket veto”
• 01:14 – John McMahon’s story about staged decision-making
• 01:35 – John Kaplan: Transactional vs. transformational management
• 02:18 – John McMahon: The power of following up on accountability
• 03:05 – Tom Heiser: The concept of commander's intent
• 04:45 – Tom Heiser: Why some people thrive with intent and others need steps
• 05:32 – Tom Heiser: Self-awareness and leadership approach
• 05:58 – John Kaplan: Dangers of too many metrics

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Summary

This episode provides a masterclass in intentional, authentic leadership and the art of delegation. The hosts and Tom Heiser dissect what it truly means to empower a team—not just in word but through meaningful action and accountability. The discussion presents “commander’s intent” as a practical framework to give teams autonomy while still maintaining strategic direction. Listeners will walk away understanding that genuine delegation requires trust, regular inspection, fewer but clearer metrics, and a deep awareness of both leader and team member working styles, all of which are essential for scaling business success.

Transcript

[John McMahon]

Foreign.

[Podcast Host]

Welcome to the Revenue Builders podcast with John McMahon and John Kaplan. This podcast is brought to you by Force Management. Force Solutions help companies meet the revenue goals that drive funding, higher valuations and stakeholder value. Today, a segment from our episode with Tom Heiser. Tom is a global technology veteran and has an impressive leadership resume. He's helped to lead companies like emc, rsa, Collect software. In this segment, they dive into intention and giving your teams accountability.

[Tom Heiser]

Let's give the flip side, which is, which has driven me nuts before in my career where somebody tells you you're empowered but holds a pocket veto and you know, so you go and do something because you believe you're empowered and they already had the answer in the envelope. There's not, there's very few things that are less motivating than that as it relates to this empowerment.

[John McMahon]

I had a, I had a boss around 2000, he had a short stint at EMC and he staged a whole thing. He had everything planned out and then he brought a few of us in and I called him on it and sometimes that's not a very good thing. And he goes, you think this is a charade. You know, that's your word. But I know you already had this all planned out. I know you had the answer before you included us. Yeah, that's not authentic.

[Tom Heiser]

Yeah, I suppose into.

[John Kaplan]

That's, that's, that leads to something that we talked about last time. It's, you're either in a transactional environment where, you know, you sell for me and as long as you sell, I pay you and don't penalize you. That's very transactional. Tom, this whole podcast so far you've been talking about transformational management where, you know, like you just said, I think it was Dick Egan would give you guys things to do and you'd have to grow through that process. That was very transformational management. Right. And he gave you full, you know, full responsibility and he probably was going to hold you accountable to it, but it wasn't just a plain old transaction.

[John McMahon]

He held us accountable.

[John Kaplan]

Transaction. Yeah.

[John McMahon]

Yeah, but you would also the other thing about this, I think great leadership inspects that. How many times have you been asked by a boss to go do something and they never ask you about it again? It's so demotivational.

[Tom Heiser]

Yeah.

[John McMahon]

Why was it really that important? Whether it was, you know, whether it's a formal sit down review, quarterly business review, whatever, weekly, whatever, dashboard, whatever, coffee, coffee station conversation, asking about it, whatever, doesn't matter. But, but he would inspect it, right. And And. And then it kept you honest. But it was also. It was important. You know, you knew it was important. If he. If he was exerting the energy again to ask about that again, he was asking you to do something that was important.

[John Kaplan]

Yes.

[Tom Heiser]

We're. We're talking about some of the things here on empowerment. I want to go back to one of the things you said on intent. It actually came from the military. There's a term called commander's intent. And what they found was in business, and we actually hire for it at Force Management. And I was really blessed to understand what this meant, and I learned it from a military person that was on our staff. Commander's intent is the people have the ability to understand the commander's intent.

[John McMahon]

And.

[Tom Heiser]

And they can go and operate within the commander's intent. And the. The beauty for the leader is they come back with things that are even more powerful than you thought they could be when you allowed them to, you know, for the empowerment. But there's also those people. Sorry, guys. There's also those people that don't operate very well in commander's intent. So the opposite of commander's intent is, hey, I went and did this. I went and unwrapped the candy wrapper. Here's what the candy looks like. And you go, okay, great. Like, we got to make a whole box of those. Hey, I did two. Here's what two of them look like. So the opposite of that, that they can't understand commander's intent is they don't. They. They have to constantly be supervised. And the reason why it's so powerful in the military is it started to differentiate what type of people that could go off and do certain missions. If people could work in the boundaries of intent and create great opportunities for everybo successful opportunities, they put people in those types of environments with less boundaries. People that could not operate with commander's intent. They did a great job, but they had to be told, step one, step two, step three, step four, step five. When I was first introduced to that concept, I thought, holy smokes. That sums up a lot of work experience that I've had with people on, like, you know, why. Why do I struggle to tell something to one person, and they go and deliver something to me more powerful than I thought? And then other people, I feel like they have to keep coming back. So does that resonate for you guys, that term of commander's intent?

[John McMahon]

Absolutely. It's giving. Giving them the latitude, the creative ability. Right.

[Tom Heiser]

That's from the leader's point of view. I love that. But also you have to be somebody that says, am I somebody that operates well, Commander's intent, like, can I take a concept? Can I take the intent? Do I know how to qualify the intent? Go out and deliver something that is, you know, that is spectacular. Both of those worlds are really powerful, but not everybody. If you're self aware, you probably know where you sit on that spectrum.

[John Kaplan]

There's also the leaders will paralyze some of their people when they give them like eight different ways in which they measure them. And then the people can't get out of bed in the morning. They, they, the alarm clock goes off, they wake up, they try to roll their legs over the side of the bed and they think, oh, my manager manages me by eight different measurements. Like, I just don't know exactly what he wants from me. I've seen that movie many times.

[John McMahon]

Oh yeah. Yes.

[Podcast Host]

This whole episode is a great discussion on leadership, enabling great decision making on your teams and authenticity. Don't miss it. It's linked in the show notes. Make it a great week.