Revenue Builders Podcast

Episode: Revenue, Retention and Recruiting with Mike Earnest

Release Date: March 6, 2025
Hosts: John McMahon & John Kaplan
Guest: Mike Earnest, VP of Worldwide Sales at Wiz

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of Revenue Builders, hosts John McMahon and John Kaplan are joined by sales leader Mike Earnest. Together, they explore the vital "Three Rs" of sales leadership: Revenue, Retention, and Recruiting, with a primary focus on recruiting top talent and building high-performance cultures in B2B sales organizations. Mike, who’s built his career across companies like BladeLogic, BMC, Sumo Logic, AppDynamics, Zscaler, and now Wiz, shares lessons from his journey, providing actionable insights on sourcing talent, building internal pipelines, and ensuring that retention and development go hand-in-hand with business growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Imperative of Constant Recruiting

• Recruiting as a Sales Leader’s Pipeline:
  According to Mike, recruiting is the sales leader’s equivalent of pipeline generation:
  • "You have to create a culture of recruiting. As a leader, you need to be intentional about constantly recruiting. You can't just pass it off to recruiters.” (02:04)
• John Kaplan’s Rule of Three:
  Always be ready for three eventualities: someone will get promoted, someone will leave or be moved, and someone will surprise you.
  • “Somebody's going to get promoted, somebody's going to get demoted or reassigned or moved out and then somebody's going to surprise you.” (03:18)

2. Promoting from Within vs. Finding External Talent

• Culture of Promotion:
  Mike emphasizes looking inside first but also continuously searching externally:
  • "You're consistently investing in people and stretching them into new jobs and opportunities... We look there first before going external." (04:29)
• Building a Family Tree of Leaders:
  Promoting from within is a source of pride and evidence of leadership development:
  • "It's building a family tree... of who you've developed." (05:01)

3. Embedding Recruiting Accountability

• Instilling the Mindset:
  Mike insists on making recruiting part of weekly conversations, not a separate function.
  • "When we're in forecast calls or one on ones, we don’t just talk revenue risk, we talk people risk." (06:29)
• Leader's Ownership in Recruiting:
  Mike expects active involvement from all leaders:
  • “Everyone should be recruiting. Everyone should be recruiting my people. They're amazing—it’s a compliment if someone’s going after them.” (05:41)

4. Pipeline Generation for Candidates

• Regular reviews of top talent lists, hands-on talent sessions with the recruiting team, and personally engaging high-potential candidates are key tactics.
  • “I have weekly calls for global talent reviews...figuring out who’s a fit, who’s not.” (07:30)

5. Key Traits for Top Recruits

• Non-Negotiable Traits:
  • Curiosity: the drive to dig deep and learn (hard to coach or teach) (13:34)
  • Grit: “Doing the hard things when no one's watching.” (11:27)
  • Coachability, character, adversity, and intelligence are all critical.
• On Grit:
  • “It’s the little things every day, that no one's watching, that you don’t get credit for. Not asking for credit, just doing it.” (11:27)

Notable Quote

"If their mom and dad couldn't instill it in them by 21, you ain't instilling it in them.”
—John McMahon, on core traits and behaviors (14:54)

6. Interview & Assessment Process

• Challenge-Based Final Interview:
  Instead of product pitches, candidates are presented with real accounts and must prioritize, strategize, and build discovery questions—simulating the real job.

  • “Salespeople are great actors; a memorized pitch doesn’t show you anything.” (17:19)

• Digging into Adversity:
  Deep-diving into candidates’ backgrounds—first jobs, struggles, what they've overcome:

  • “Personal adversity—first jobs out of school or even before.” (19:15)

7. Sourcing Top Talent—Beyond the Recruiter

• Get Creative about Sourcing:
  • Seek out proven performers from robust training programs and companies known for employee development.
  • Rely heavily on personal networks—“people promoted multiple times, stayed long stretches, been through serious training” (36:35)
• "Pipeline Generation" for Talent:
  Regularly message high-potential candidates, build relationships, and maintain a ready bench:
  • “Send three messages a week to people in your territory… It’s not recruiting, it's networking. When you get an opening, you have a pipeline that’s ready.” (39:16)
• Leverage New Hires’ Networks:
  • “New hires are at their highest satisfaction. Ask them: who should join us?” (41:29)

Memorable Story

Kelly Deemers sent Kaplan one sneaker with a note: “I’d like to bring the other one with me if you allow me an interview.”
—John Kaplan, on creative candidate outreach (46:04)

8. Retention: Creating a Magnet Culture

• Authenticity & “Future Vision”:

  • “If you genuinely care about your team… and you get them to buy into a high bar that aligns with their personal and professional growth, they’re not going to leave. They’re in the shiny object.” (48:01)

• Retention Tactics:

  1. Tie the company’s vision to individual success.
  2. Foster transformational—not just transactional—management.
  3. Help people see themselves growing within the organization.

• Coach for Development, Not Compliance:

  • “There’s a difference between buying into a process because it helps—and compliance to appease your boss.” (49:47)

9. Leadership Development: Preparing Future Managers

• Encourage would-be leaders to act "as if" they already had the role—mentor others, build ecosystem relationships, see if they enjoy (and can handle) leadership responsibilities. (55:20)

Memorable Quote

“Act like you already have it. If you want the next job, start doing it now.”
—John Kaplan, on preparing for promotion (55:20)

• Supporting New Managers:
  • Avoid just promoting your best rep into leadership—it's lazy and risky.
  • Offer extensive support from experienced, second-line managers (“the Teflon manager”—helps with assessment, recruiting, and setting consistent expectations).
  • Keep expectations simple and clear: “If they can’t snap out the three or four things you expect from them every morning without thinking, it’s too complex.” (63:02)

Timestamps to Key Segments

• [02:04] — Recruiting as pipeline generation for leaders
• [03:18] — Kaplan’s “Rule of Three”
• [04:29] — Promoting from within and building a leadership “family tree”
• [06:29] — Embedding recruiting into every leadership conversation
• [07:30] — Candidate pipeline generation: weekly active sourcing
• [10:11] — Top traits to look for in new hires
• [11:27] — “Grit”: what it looks like in practice
• [13:34] — The centrality of curiosity
• [17:19] — Challenge-based interviews, assessing real prospecting and thinking
• [36:35] — Advanced sourcing strategies
• [39:16] — Proactive candidate networking as “leader pipeline generation”
• [41:29] — Tapping into the networks of new hires
• [46:04] — Creative outreach: the “single sneaker” job application story
• [48:01] — Retention by authentic leadership and high standards
• [49:47] — Buy-in versus compliance in process adoption
• [55:20] — “Act like you already have it”: the pathway to leadership
• [63:02] — The power of simplicity and consistency in expectations

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Recruiting Mindset:

  "Recruiting is our pipeline generation. As leaders, you create a culture of recruiting—never just pass it off to recruiters or HR.”
  —Mike Earnest (02:04)

• Promotion Culture:

  "It's an honor. It's building a family tree of who you've developed."
  —John Kaplan (05:01)

• On Grit:

  “It’s doing the hard things when no one's watching.”
  —Mike Earnest (11:27)

• Candidate Assessment:

  "Salespeople are great actors… A memorized pitch doesn’t show you anything.”
  —Mike Earnest (17:19)

• On Growing Leaders:

  "If you want the next job, act like you already have it."
  —John Kaplan (55:20)

• Keeping it Simple:

  "If they can't just snap out those three or four things I want from them, it's too complex."
  —John McMahon (63:02)

Conclusion & Takeaways

• Relentless Focus on Talent:
  Recruiting, developing, and retaining exceptional talent is the root cause of sustained revenue performance.
• Managerial Discipline:
  Build systems, playbooks, and expectations that are simple, consistent, and tied to meaningful development—both for reps and managers.
• Culture of Growth:
  Never stop recruiting, always invest in your team’s growth, and ensure that both leaders and reps can see their future—and want it—at your company.

This episode is a masterclass in sales leadership talent strategy, packed with stories, tactics, and quotable moments for new and veteran leaders alike.

For more or to apply with Wiz: www.force management.com / reach out to Mike Earnest on LinkedIn.