Episode Summary: The Discipline Behind Scaling from PLG to Enterprise with Sahir Azam

Revenue Builders Podcast — April 2, 2026
Host: Force Management | Guest: Sahir Azam
Hosts: John McMahon, John Kaplan

Overview

In this deeply insightful episode, the Revenue Builders team welcomes Sahir Azam, Partner at Index Ventures and former Chief Product Officer at MongoDB. Drawing from his journey scaling MongoDB’s cloud business, Sahir discusses the realities and discipline required to successfully transition a company from Product-Led Growth (PLG) to an enterprise motion. The discussion spans lessons on adaptability and resilience, the intricacies of scaling GTM strategies, building organizational bridges between product and sales, and the profound shifts being shaped by AI in software, user interfaces, and the future of work. Sahir also provides a unique, practical breakdown of the current state and future of AI, sharing what he looks for as an investor in startups and how sales organizations can leverage new tools to stay competitive.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Lessons from Scaling Hypergrowth Companies

[02:19–06:23]

• Adaptability: Success in high-growth environments demands a willingness to continuously relearn your role as the business evolves.
  • “My job changed significantly every year or two...you have to lean into how your role changes — that's critical for anyone to be successful in a growth company.” — Sahir Azam [03:00]
• Resilience/Grit: The path is filled with challenges; brushing off setbacks and pressing on is essential.
• Bridging Product & Sales: Top operators are "translators" between product builders and go-to-market teams.
  • “There's a real power in being in the middle...connecting go-to-market and technology, keeping things holistic and coherent.” — Sahir Azam [04:20]

2. Internal Change Management & ‘Selling’ Internally

[06:23–08:29]

• Driving Organizational Buy-in for New Initiatives:
  • “A lot of what's necessary comes to the fundamentals of selling, even internally...building the trust of the organization, bringing them along, understanding incentives, making sure they win.” — Sahir Azam [06:52]
• Early deals, direct engagement, and cross-functional sales enablement are critical for momentum.

3. The Field as Foundation for Product Leaders

[08:29–09:48]

• Product leaders benefit from field experience; at minimum, they must deeply engage with sales and customer-facing teams for empathy and understanding.
• “You have to over-rotate in spending time with sales, pre-sales, customer success...injecting empathy for how complex those jobs are.” — Sahir Azam [08:52]

4. The PLG to Enterprise Journey: Keys and Pitfalls

[09:48–13:46]

• It’s not either-or: Effective companies architect a GTM model that combines PLG, enterprise sales, and smooth handoffs between them.
  • “There are some segments the PLG motion works for—developers, startups...others, like large regulated enterprises, need sophisticated sellers. We always worked backwards from reaching as many market segments as possible.” — Sahir Azam [10:14]
• Where founders fail: They build only for PLG, then struggle when board pressure pushes them upmarket—the company/culture/financial model isn’t ready.
• Cultural Shifts: Shifting to enterprise sales requires an open-minded CEO; sales and distribution must be given equal strategic focus as product.
  • “The founder...has to view sales and distribution with the same intensity as product and technology.” — Sahir Azam [12:17]
• Customer Impact First: Large part of Sahir’s success is “outside-in” thinking—always asking how changes impact the customer, including internal ‘customers’ across the company.

5. Attributes of Great Sellers and Leaders

[14:38–20:25]

• Intellectual Curiosity: Essential for building credibility with today’s technical buyers.
  • “The best sellers...have an intellectual curiosity to really understand the product and technology.” — Sahir Azam [14:43]
• Orchestration: Elite sellers marshal internal resources at the right moments, act as orchestrators, not just the loudest voice.
• Deep Listening: Top sellers “ask the best questions and extract real information.” — Sahir Azam [16:28]
• At the Leadership Level:
  • Operational rigor (playbooks, resource management).
  • Culture of accountability and heavy investment in enablement.
  • “It’s not just about quota capacity; the better dollars might be spent on leverage functions that unlock true scalability.” — Sahir Azam [19:55]

6. Angel Investing & Advisory: What Separates Winning Startups

[21:02–25:32]

• Leverage Your Network: The best founders actively use their advisors and investors—a clear marker for success.
  • “The winners are those who treat me like I work for the company...the others go silent after the investment—big red flag.” — Sahir Azam [21:12]
• Balanced Culture: Overweighting either sales or product/engineering leads to organizational failure; winning companies strike a “healthy balance.”
• Red Flag: Founders lacking curiosity or appreciation for sales rarely succeed. Intellectual humility and a willingness to learn the GTM side are essential.

7. Translating Technical Insight into Sales-Consumable Language

[26:37–31:38]

• Technical depth is necessary, but selling requires translating features into customer outcomes, in the language of “so what?”
  • Anecdote: “My first week as SE, I said ‘check out this feature, it's neat.’ My manager stopped me—‘nobody cares if it’s neat, explain what it solves.’” — Sahir Azam [31:38]
• The best engineers desire direct customer exposure and adapt their communication style for sellers, driving product improvements and empathy.

8. Sahir’s Transition to Venture Capital

[33:07–39:41]

• How the VC Job Mirrors Sales:
  • “You’re serving entrepreneurs, selling the value of yourself and your firm; capital is a commodity.” — Sahir Azam [36:11]
• Time Management Shifts: From the rhythm and structure of operating roles to open, self-directed priorities in venture.
• Choosing the Right VC: Entrepreneurs should look beyond brand and check size to the firm’s incentive model and real engagement—many “just show up, eat your donuts.”
  • Anecdote: “Your competitor’s offering 100 CIO intros, but you can’t even process those without a sales team...founders need to match VC help to their stage.” — Sahir Azam [38:23]

9. Where AI Is Now and Where It’s Going

[39:41–53:12]

• AI as New Computing Paradigm:
  “Inference is the new runtime”—serving AI models in real-time is now a critical stack layer, with economics and performance as key concerns.
  • “Open-source models with low cost, high performance, and quality tuned to use case are why companies like Fireworks AI are succeeding.” — Sahir Azam [41:11]
• Probabilistic vs Deterministic Software:
  Traditional software outputs are predictable; generative AI is probabilistic, automating work that previously required humans.
  • “AI is going after the services and labor budget—not just IT budgets. It’s automating problems previously unsolvable by tech.” — Sahir Azam [44:02]
• Changing UI Paradigm:
  • Shift from clicks & screens to natural language, voice, and even vision (“see, hear, speak”).
  • “Software is no longer 2D and static, it's becoming ambient and proactive—voice, video, robotics, mixed reality. The paradigm’s shifting fast.” — Sahir Azam [46:56]
• Where to Build Careers in AI:
  • Huge innovation across the stack: applications, infrastructure (“picks and shovels”), underlying hardware, and energy/power solutions.
  • “For sellers, it’s an incredible time—opportunity everywhere, from app layer to hardware to infrastructure.” — Sahir Azam [49:48]
• AI Today:
  • Most current apps are LLM wrappers; true AI-native, domain-specific apps are in early days. Adoption in big enterprise lags startups.
  • “A lot of the apps I see are just LLM wrappers; I’m not yet seeing many truly AI-native, deeply domain-focused apps.” — John McMahon [53:17]

10. AI Tools for Sales and Investors

[54:38–56:12]

• Sahir’s AI Stack:
  • Perplexity (for search): Fast, snappy results.
  • Anthropic's Claude (for research, workflows): “I’m totally Claude-pilled... automating more of my workflow every week.”
  • ChatGPT (personal use), Gemini Deep Research.
• Internal adoption of AI tools at Index Ventures: hackathons, tooling, and experimentation are part of the firm’s workflow.

11. The ‘Death’ of Seat-Based SaaS

[56:15–61:40]

• Debate: Are seat-based SaaS models threatened as AI automates work, possibly shrinking the number of licenses needed?
  • “If orgs get leaner, fewer seats will be sold... but incumbents like Salesforce have resources and can transition to consumption models.” — Sahir Azam [57:50]
• It's execution and willingness to adapt (not just structural/market forces) that will separate which SaaS firms thrive or falter in the AI era.

12. Impact of AI on Sales Org Structure & Process

[61:41–65:56]

• AI Sales Tools:
  • Tools like Granola provide live conversation focus, summarization, sentiment tracking—can remove bias from sales coaching and deal progression.
  • “AI is now a mirror of reality in sales cycles, showing what’s really happening, even down to buyer skepticism.” — Sahir Azam [62:01]
• Equitable Coaching: Real-time, AI-powered feedback democratizes coaching—middle performers get attention they previously lacked.
• PG Emails: Outbound pipeline generation—“AI writes a better PG email to me than the average SDR, every day.” — Sahir Azam [65:42]
• Tech Consolidation: Too many tools will hurt seller workflow; adoption must be selective.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “In a hypergrowth company, you have to relearn your job every 18 months.” — John Kaplan [04:38]
• “As you move from PLG to enterprise, it’s not either-or; it’s about getting the product to as many segments as possible and architecting the GTM accordingly.” — Sahir Azam [10:14]
• “The best sellers...are orchestrators—marshaling resources, bringing in the right people at the right time.” — Sahir Azam [15:24]
• “Product market fit means nothing without go-to-market fit.” — John Kaplan [24:29]
• “If you’re a technical founder struggling with go-to-market—it’s probably not that you don’t have the answers, it’s how you translate them for sellers.” — John Kaplan [28:54]
• “My first week as an SE, I demo’d a ‘neat’ feature. My manager stopped me—‘Nobody gives a crap if it’s neat. Explain why.’” — Sahir Azam [31:38]
• “You’re serving entrepreneurs. Capital is a commodity—what matters is the help you bring and how you sell the value of your firm.” — Sahir Azam [36:11]
• “Inference is the new runtime—serving AI models in real time with high performance and the right economics is the new infrastructure challenge.” — Sahir Azam [41:11]
• “Software isn’t just 2D clicks and screens anymore—it’s seeing, hearing, speaking. The paradigm is shifting fast.” — Sahir Azam [46:56]
• “AI is a mirror of reality for sales. It surfaces true buying signals and can coach equitably across teams.” — Sahir Azam [62:01]
• “AI writes a better pipeline-gen email to me than most SDRs.” — Sahir Azam [65:42]

Timestamps by Key Segment

• Career reflections & lessons: [02:03–06:23]
• Advice on adaptability/resiliency: [05:05–08:29]
• PLG to Enterprise: pitfalls & strategies: [09:20–14:13]
• What makes a great seller/leader: [14:13–20:25]
• Startup winners vs losers (angel investing): [21:02–25:32]
• Translating technical value for sales: [26:37–31:38]
• From operator to VC—learnings: [33:07–39:41]
• AI state & infrastructure shift: [39:41–53:12]
• AI tools for work: [54:38–56:12]
• ‘Death’ of seat-based SaaS & future of the sales stack: [56:15–65:56]

Summary Tone & Language

Throughout, the conversation is candid, actionable, and rooted in real-world experiences. Sahir’s explanations are clear, accessible, and filled with the kind of detail only someone who’s “been there, done that” can provide. The hosts inject humor, humility, and energy, ensuring a lively, practical, and insightful listen.

Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in scaling from PLG to enterprise, building organizational bridges, and riding the wave of AI-driven change. Sahir Azam’s career arc offers lessons not just in product and sales leadership, but in how to thrive through ambiguity, balance, and relentless learning. The episode is a must for anyone in B2B SaaS, especially at the intersection of go-to-market, product leadership, and AI-driven transformation.