Coming Soon: The Staten Island Problem

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: "Coming Soon: The Staten Island Problem"

Revisionist History – June 29, 2026
Host: Malcolm Gladwell
Guest/Contributor: Ben Natafaffery

---

Overview

This special preview episode teases the upcoming season of Revisionist History hosted by Malcolm Gladwell, focusing on the little-known, almost-forgotten Staten Island secession movement from 30 years ago. In collaboration with journalist Ben Natafaffery, the show promises a deep dive into the paradoxes and resentments that shape both local and national politics, examining how the events on Staten Island echo the polarization and fragmentation seen throughout the United States today.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Staten Island's Identity and Isolation

• Staten Island is painted as an outlier within New York City—neither glamorous nor central, but distinctly its own.
• Malcolm Gladwell sets the tone:

  "We don't live in the glitter of Broadway. We don't live in Yankee Stadium. Where we live in is in everyday Staten Island. We weren't sophisticated." (00:19)

• The community is depicted as more conservative, "country people," differing in lifestyle and priorities from Manhattan residents.

2. The Secession Movement

• In the early 1990s, Staten Island wanted out of New York City, spurred by feelings of neglect and difference:

  "Thirty years ago, Staten Island decided it didn't want to be part of New York City anymore." – Ben Natafaffery (00:36)

• The struggle became a passionate, drawn-out political battle, not lacking in drama or high stakes.

  "If nothing else, I hope that I can convey to the people of Staten Island that I deeply care about them... My God, what are they thinking?" – Malcolm Gladwell (00:55)

3. The Larger Implications – Democracy at the Brink

• Natafaffery spotlights the simmering resentments that fuel not just local movements but national political shifts:

  "This is what happens when a group who feels like they've been ignored and forgotten for decades decides that they've had enough." (01:15)

• The episode teases how these Staten Island dynamics mirrored and even anticipated the rise of divisive political figures like Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani, with anger spilling over into national politics.

  "It's about neighbors turning on each other in a very specific strain of resentment that started in the outer boroughs of New York City and then went national..." – Ben Natafaffery (01:52)

4. The Central Question – What Caused Freedom?

• Gladwell nudges the show toward its philosophical undertones:

  "My position was to ask yourself what caused freedom?" (03:02)

• The show promises to explore secession not only as a historical episode but as a recurring feature in American life, linking Staten Island's movement to the fundamental American impulse toward breaking away.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Malcolm Gladwell on Community Identity:
  "We weren't sophisticated. We were not, you know, east side of Manhattan or west side of Manhattan liberals. We were country people." (00:19)
• On Trust and Division:
  "Who will you trust? Your friends and neighbors and the people in Staten Island? Who will you trust? The people five miles overseas." – Malcolm Gladwell (00:42)
• On the Significance of the Story:
  "What unfolded over the span of the next four years was a battle for the soul of the city...this is exactly what's happening in the country right now." – Ben Natafaffery (01:15)
• Historical Resonance:
  "This summer, we’re celebrating our 250th birthday as a country. It’s the anniversary of an act of secession. This is who we are. This is what we do. So it’s time to ask a big question. How do you solve the Staten Island problem?" – Ben Natafaffery (02:29)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:19 – Gladwell on Staten Island identity and difference
• 00:36 – Natafaffery introduces the secession movement
• 00:55 – Gladwell on political realities, care, and skepticism
• 01:15 – Natafaffery frames the movement in national terms
• 01:52 – Highlighting the national consequences and "strain of resentment"
• 02:29 – Natafaffery on echoes with America’s founding and today's divisions
• 03:02 – Gladwell and Natafaffery preview the "Staten Island Problem" and upcoming season

---

Tone and Style

The episode blends Malcolm Gladwell’s calm, probing curiosity with Ben Natafaffery’s investigative ardor. Their language is by turns personal, reflective, and direct—seeking not just to recount the past but to connect it meaningfully to the present.

---

Final Thoughts

Revisionist History’s coming season promises to move Staten Island from the footnotes of city history to the center of America’s ongoing debate about identity, inclusion, and the roots of national division. Listeners can expect a thoughtful mix of storytelling, analysis, and contemporary resonance.

---

The full story—"The Staten Island Problem"—airs July 9th.
Early access and bonus content available to Pushkin+ subscribers.

Transcript

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Pushkin.

[Ben Natafaffery]

Five miles off the shore of Manhattan, there is a place called Staten Island.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

We don't live in the glitter of Broadway. We don't live in Yankee Stadium. Where we live in is in everyday Staten Island. We weren't sophisticated. We were not, you know, east side of Manhattan or west side of Manhattan liberals. We were country people.

[Ben Natafaffery]

And 30 years ago, Staten island decided it didn't want to be part of New York City anymore.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Who will you trust? Your friends and neighbors and the people in Staten Island? Who will you trust? The people five miles overseas.

[Ben Natafaffery]

Staten island was trying to secede from New York City, but not without a fight.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

If nothing else, I hope that I can convey to the people of Staten island that I deeply care about them and about all of them. If this were a political visit, why in blazes would I come? It's a pipe dream. It's just not going to happen. People are not facing the reality. My God, what are they thinking?

[Ben Natafaffery]

What unfolded over the span of the next four years was a battle for the soul of the city, which I, as a person living in the city, had never heard about. And the more I researched, the more I realized this is exactly what's happening in the country right now. This is what happens when a group who feels like they've been ignored and forgotten for decades decides that they've had enough.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

All of you who are in favor of seceding from the city of New York, would you please raise your hands?

[Ben Natafaffery]

This is a story about a democracy falling apart. It's about neighbors turning on each other in a very specific strain of resentment that started in the outer boroughs of New York City and then went national with people like Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

We reached for a feeling that exists in this city. But we're not stopping. Are we in the polls? Generally speaking. National Enquirer did a poll that's unbelievable that says I win, that you beat everybody. They win. Right? Right into the White House.

[Ben Natafaffery]

I'm Ben Natafaffery, and I have done a deep, deep dive into this overlooked and misunderstood moment from 30 years ago when New York City almost tore itself apart, because I think it anticipated everything about how our country is tearing itself apart right now. This summer, we're celebrating our 250th birthday as a country. It's the anniversary of an act of secession. This is who we are. This is what we do. So it's time to ask a big question. How do you solve the Staten island problem?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

The forgotten borough? I don't know. I think we just might get rid of that nickname. My position was to ask yourself what caused freedom?

[Ben Natafaffery]

The Staten island problem is coming July 9th from Pushkin Industries. Listen on the Revisionist History feed Wherever you get your podcasts, subscribe to Pushkin to hear episodes of Revisionist History the Staten Island Problem early and ad free. Subscribers also get bonus episodes, full audiobooks and early ad free listening from your favorite Pushkin hosts and authors. Plus, your support helps independent shows like us continue making the stories you love. Find Pushkin on the Revisionist History show page on Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin FM plus and thanks for your support.