Revisionist History: Malcolm Gladwell Doesn’t Mind Being Wrong

Podcast: Revisionist History
Host: Malcolm Gladwell (Guest on Hasan Minhaj’s podcast)
Episode: Malcolm Gladwell Doesn't Mind Being Wrong | From Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know
Date: December 30, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode is a candid and wide-ranging conversation between Malcolm Gladwell and comedian Hasan Minhaj, covering the significance, influence, and criticism of Gladwell’s work, his approach to being proven wrong, and an in-depth look at the latest season of Revisionist History focused on the death penalty in Alabama. Gladwell also discusses the evolution of his public ideas, the cultural impact of storytelling, and the personal and societal need for empathy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Gladwell’s Style, Popularity, and Cultural Impact

• Gladwell’s Role as a "Gateway Drug" for Big Ideas:
  • Gladwell positions himself as an accessible entry point into intellectual exploration, enabling the general public to play in the "world of ideas."

    “I’ll go out and find cool ideas for you, arrange them and let you… indulge in them, see whether you like them, try them on for size, reject them if you want…” —Gladwell [06:58]

• Approach to Storytelling:
  • Gladwell describes the transition from writing to podcasting as a move from "an insistence on [his] own voice" to receding and curating others' voices.

    “I wanted to get away from... the insistence of my own voice. …What I’m doing is collecting other people's voices.” —Gladwell [04:45]

• On Being Cited and Criticized:
  • Gladwell acknowledges his work is seen as foundational (“seminal books for intellectualism”), but he tempers that by clarifying he’s not providing the last word but hopes to set readers/listeners on a lifelong journey with ideas.
  • He jokes about cameo references in popular culture, such as his book Blink appearing in White Lotus, and how his popularity can attract both snobbery and criticism.

On Coining Terms and Making Ideas Stick

• Naming Ideas:
  • The success of terms like "Tipping Point" is often serendipitous; Gladwell theorizes the best titles are oxymorons or contain internal tension.
  • Offers advice to Hasan on coining a term for middle-aged men’s obsession with history (“dadstalgia” is deemed not quite catchy enough).

Willingness to Admit Error & Evolution of Ideas

• Publicly Changing One’s Mind:

  • Gladwell challenges the notion that changing your mind in public is a weakness; he relishes the opportunity to update his thinking.

    “I get such delight in... finding out that something I thought was one way is another. It never occurs to me that there's any public cost to speaking about that out loud.” —Gladwell [18:16]

  • He discusses how real credibility comes from adapting to new evidence, not from unyielding consistency.

    “Why wouldn't it jeopardize your credibility if you refuse to change your mind in the face of a rapidly changing world…” —Gladwell [20:08]

• Broken Windows and the Evolution of Policing Views:

  • Gladwell revisits his endorsement of ‘broken windows’ policing from his book The Tipping Point, acknowledging he was wrong after new evidence showed the policy (specifically stop and frisk) was ineffective.

    “…If you wrote, if you endorse stop and frisk, and then you were suddenly faced with the empirical reality that... things did not get worse, but rather better. You have to re-examine your position.” —Gladwell [25:05]

  • Emphasizes the fluid, non-final nature of knowledge, especially in fields like criminology.

Critique of “Fact-Checking” Comedy

• Gladwell defends comedians against literalist fact-checking, emphasizing that comedy’s value lies in its perspective and distortion, not historical accuracy.

  “Nothing is more tiresome than people who fact check stories. ...You’re a performer for goodness sake. …That’s what a punchline is.” —Gladwell [31:08]

Debates on Education and Work

• On Elite Education:
  • Argues against always choosing the “best” institution if it means being at the bottom of the class; relative position matters for student confidence and success.

    “You should go to Harvard if you think you can be in the top quarter... But don’t go there if you’re going to be at the bottom…” —Gladwell [33:34]

• On Work From Home:
  • Gladwell clarifies his viral comments: early-career professionals benefit more from learning in-person, but experienced workers gain from flexibility.

    “If you’re 25... you shouldn’t be at home... If you’re 50 and... experienced, why are you coming in? Doesn’t make any sense.” —Gladwell [37:29]

Revisionist History Season 11: The Alabama Murders

Genesis of the Season

• Gladwell’s new season is centered on the death penalty in Alabama, spurred by discussions with psychologist Kate Porterfield (“the most interesting job in America”) and her involvement in the case of Kenny Smith.

  “…I sat down with her. We met five times, each time for about three hours… she started talking about a case she had just finished… I was just floored.” —Gladwell [42:19]

Details of the Case

• The case examines how Alabama judges could override jury recommendations for life sentences, opting instead for execution—a unique, controversial power.

  “…in the state of Alabama…if the judge wanted to…the judge could override the jury and just say…this person should be killed.” —Gladwell [48:57]

• Explores the mechanics and ethics of capital punishment, especially lethal injection, revealing its origins and the medical horror behind its supposed “humaneness.”

  “…your lungs are on fire, which is… quite painful. Because you’ve been given a paralytic, you can’t cry out in pain.” —Gladwell [52:09] “The last thing that you may know is that you’re on fire from the inside and the blood is filling up your lungs as you die.” —Minhaj summarizing Gladwell [52:19]

Reflections on Punitive Culture in America

• Contrasts America’s focus on severity ("how much you’ll suffer") over certainty (“how likely you are to be caught”), arguing that European models—which focus on certainty and less on draconian punishments—are more effective.

  “We are simultaneously the most sophisticated country in the world and also the least. …We’ve decided we’re going to put all of our eggs in the severity basket…” —Gladwell [54:49]

• Challenges the “revenge” mentality common in American discourse around punishment.

  “There’s a lot of that… which I don’t understand.” —Gladwell [53:33]

Empathy and the Power of Humanization

• Gladwell is deeply moved by the humanity shown by those who continue to care for death row inmates, emphasizing societal need for empathy:

  “…the whole idea was… about people who looked at these two kids… and the series of people come and see in them some element of humanity… and learning how to love them.” —Gladwell [58:44]

• Gladwell describes the emotional impact of researching and producing the season, allowing a long period of silence in the final episode to convey the gravity and pain of the topic.

  “Doing that show was the single most… experiences that have shaken me emotionally…” —Gladwell [58:44] “…it seemed the most honest thing to do at the end of the show to communicate…this tore me apart.” —Gladwell [58:43]

Hope for Social Change

• Hopes the season contributes to a broader societal push for empathy and humanization.

  “All you can do is… join the chorus. Right. Of people who are insisting that we be more human.” —Gladwell [62:37]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Admitting Mistakes:

  “I get such delight in personal delight in finding out that something I thought was one way is another. …what the game we’re playing here is… ideas change.” —Gladwell [18:16]

• On Broken Windows/Stop-and-Frisk:

  “I wrote a book that was read by a ton of people… arguing that… crime drop was essentially some version of aggressive policing.…I was wrong…” —Gladwell [27:14]

• On Lethal Injection:

  “The last thing that you may know is that you’re on fire from the inside and the blood is filling up your lungs as you die.” —Gladwell via Minhaj [52:19]

• On Empathy at Episode’s End:

  “It is okay to open your heart to someone who society has given up on.” —Gladwell [58:44]

• On Storytelling:

  “Part of what’s funny about comedians…is…the idea that you guys have a distorted lens. …that’s what a punchline is.” —Gladwell [31:08]

Important Timestamps

• [02:45] — “Blurbing” books and Gladwell’s fake blurb for the interview
• [05:26] — Discussion of Gladwell’s books’ cultural ubiquity (Blink cameo in White Lotus)
• [09:45] — How Gladwell makes even “boring” topics compelling
• [18:16] — Gladwell on his TED Talk and the joy of being wrong
• [25:05] — Revisiting “Broken Windows” and stop-and-frisk
• [37:29] — Clarifying his “work from home” hot take
• [42:19] — Origin of the Alabama case and interview with Kate Porterfield
• [48:57] — Alabama judge override in death penalty cases
• [52:09] — The horror of lethal injection and autopsy revelations
• [58:09] — Gladwell’s emotional reaction to researching the season, case, and the power of empathy

Conclusion

This conversation is emblematic of Gladwell’s approach—playful, intellectually curious, willing to be challenged, and deeply human. Minhaj’s probing and humor complement Gladwell’s earnestness, resulting in a discussion that is both enlightening and emotionally resonant, especially in its treatment of justice, punishment, and the necessity of compassion. For listeners, it provides insight into how ideas shape public discourse, the perils and responsibilities of influence, and the enduring value of thoughtful, open-minded reflection.