Episode 138: No Surrender! Paul Watson Talks About His Latest Victory Over Japan and The Battles Ahead

Summary

Rewilding Earth Podcast Summary
Episode 138: No Surrender! Paul Watson Talks About His Latest Victory Over Japan and The Battles Ahead
Release Date: December 20, 2024
Host: The Rewilding Institute

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Introduction

In Episode 138 of the Rewilding Earth podcast, The Rewilding Institute welcomes Captain Paul Watson, the founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society and the Paul Watson Foundation. Renowned as a pirate, eco-warrior, and a controversial hero, Watson has been a steadfast advocate in the fight to protect marine life and combat illegal whaling for over four decades. This episode delves into Watson's recent arrest in Denmark, his five-month ordeal in prison, his unwavering commitment to conservation, and the ongoing battles to safeguard our oceans.

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Paul Watson's Recent Victory and Imprisonment

The episode opens with Watson reflecting on his recent arrest in Denmark and the subsequent threat of extradition to Japan. Despite the severity of the situation, Watson maintains a positive outlook, expressing gratitude for the opportunity to return home to his family for Christmas.

Paul Watson [02:18]: "Oh, I'm feeling really good. I'm really happy that I'll be able to be home for Christmas with my two little boys."

Watson explains how his imprisonment inadvertently became a powerful campaign tool, drawing global attention to Japan's illegal whaling operations. He emphasizes the strategic use of media and documentation to highlight not only Japan's actions but also the broader issue of marine life killings in the Danish Faroe Islands.

Paul Watson [02:45]: "I was able to turn my incarceration into a campaign to continue to focus attention on their illegal whaling operations. So I think it backfired on them there because it got worldwide attention."

Throughout his five months in prison, Watson received immense support from the global community, including approximately 4,500 letters. Despite limited means to communicate, he engaged with the media and activists to keep the momentum alive.

Paul Watson [04:01]: "I received, I think while I was in there, about 4,500 letters altogether. And although I couldn't answer all of them, I tried to answer as many as possible."

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Impact on Whaling and Conservation Efforts

Watson highlights his five-decade-long battle against whaling, celebrating significant victories that have led to the cessation of whaling in countries such as Australia, Chile, South Africa, Spain, Peru, and South Korea. These efforts have effectively ended approximately 90% of global whaling activities.

Paul Watson [04:46]: "For 50 years, I've been working to oppose whaling operations around the world, and it's been a very successful 50 years. We've shut down whaling since 1974."

However, challenges persist as Japan continues its attempts to resume whaling in the Southern Ocean, and Iceland shows signs of restarting its own whaling activities. Watson outlines proactive strategies, including deploying ships to intercept Japanese whalers and planning to confront Iceland in June 2025.

Paul Watson [05:44]: "We have a ship in Australia ready to intercept them if they should return to the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary. And we also have a ship in the Atlantic to oppose a couple of vessels actually, to oppose any attempts by Iceland to resume whaling in June of 2025."

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Challenges and Activist Resistance

The conversation shifts to the broader implications of Watson's legal battles on global activism. There's concern that international legal actions, like the one Watson faced, could intimidate and discourage activists worldwide. Watson acknowledges the increasing repressive measures against environmental activists but remains optimistic about combating these challenges through strategic non-violent actions.

Paul Watson [06:06]: "We're seeing more and more repressive measures being taken against activists over the last 10, 20 years, more so than, you know, before. ... we call aggressive non-violence, to aggressively intervene but don't injure anybody."

He underscores the power of media, particularly cameras, in amplifying conservation messages without resorting to violence. Citing the film "How to Blow Off a Pipeline" as an example, Watson illustrates how impactful storytelling can drive change.

Paul Watson [06:06]: "... we always have to come up with new ideas how to capture everyone's attention at the same time without hurting anybody. ... the most powerful weapon on the planet is the camera."

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Collaboration Between Rewilding and Ocean Conservation

Watson emphasizes the interconnectedness of various ecosystems, drawing parallels between terrestrial and marine conservation efforts. He advocates for a unified approach where rewilding movements and ocean conservation work in tandem to reinforce each other's initiatives.

Paul Watson [07:37]: "Everything's connected, whether it be, you know, for instance, when I worked with Cheap brownie and in the Amazon when we were at the COP21 conference, you know, it was, it was the lungs of the earth. One lung is green, one lung is blue. And together that they provide, you know, the life support system for the planet."

He highlights the importance of diversity within conservation movements, both in ecosystems and in activist groups, stating that the collective efforts of individuals and organizations are what drive meaningful change.

Paul Watson [07:37]: "Therefore the strength of a, any movement is in diversity. So it's really literally thousands and thousands of individuals and organizations working towards the same thing."

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Future Outlook

Looking ahead to 2025, Watson outlines his strategic plans to continue combating illegal whaling and protect various marine species across the globe. His initiatives include safeguarding turtles in Mayotte, protecting orcas off Iberia, combating overfishing in the North Atlantic, and supporting river dolphin and manatee conservation in Amazonia through collaborations with Sea Shepherd branches in France and Brazil.

Paul Watson [11:03]: "Well, we're prepared to confront Iceland again in June for when they intend to go back to killing whales illegally. We have a ship stationed in Australia prepared to intervene if Japan returns to the Southern Ocean. ... working with Sea Shepherd Brazil to protect the river dolphins and the manatees in Amazonia."

Watson attributes his ability to manage such extensive operations to the collaborative efforts of dedicated individuals worldwide, reinforcing his belief in collective action.

Paul Watson [12:00]: "Don't do it all by myself. ... you have to harness our skills and our abilities and couple that to the wagon of courage and passion and imagination."

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Intelligence and Communication with Marine Life

A fascinating segment of the interview delves into Watson's views on animal intelligence and the potential for interspecies communication. He shares his longstanding belief in the possibility of communicating with whales, aided by advancements in artificial intelligence and technology. Watson criticizes the anthropocentric mindset that undervalues the intelligence of non-human species.

Paul Watson [13:17]: "We are looking at a really, you know, sophisticated intelligence with animals that have far better communication abilities than we do. ... these are intelligent capabilities far beyond anything that we're capable of."

Watson recounts personal experiences with orcas, illustrating the misunderstood nature of marine predators. He explains that incidents often labeled as attacks are typically cases of curiosity or mistaken identity.

Paul Watson [16:10]: "I think they're intelligent enough to understand that they have to live. It's a mutual coexistence with us, that they know how dangerous we are and therefore, yeah, let's not mess with these people."

Through these narratives, Watson advocates for a deeper understanding and respect for marine life, challenging conventional perceptions of intelligence and behavior in animals.

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Personal Reflections and Inspirations

Towards the end of the episode, Watson shares personal reflections, including his admiration for the late Dave Borman, an inspiration in his conservation journey. He reiterates his core message of empowering individuals to make a difference through courage, passion, and collective action.

Paul Watson [12:12]: "Each and every one of us has the ability to change the world, to make a difference... you can do incredible things."

He underscores the rewarding nature of a life dedicated to conservation, encouraging listeners to embrace challenges and remain steadfast in their efforts to protect the natural world.

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Conclusion

Episode 138 of the Rewilding Earth podcast offers a profound insight into Captain Paul Watson's relentless pursuit of ocean conservation. From his recent legal battles to his visionary ideas on interspecies communication, Watson embodies the spirit of a dedicated activist committed to rewilding and protecting our planet's marine ecosystems. His experiences serve as both a testament to the impact of individual action and a call to action for others to join the fight in preserving the Earth's wild places.

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Notable Quotes:

• Paul Watson [00:05]: "Each and every one of us has the ability to change the world, to make a difference..."

• Paul Watson [05:44]: "We have a ship in Australia ready to intercept them if they should return to the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary."

• Paul Watson [06:06]: "... the most powerful weapon on the planet is the camera."

• Paul Watson [07:37]: "Everything's connected, whether it be... one lung is green, one lung is blue."

• Paul Watson [13:17]: "These are intelligent capabilities far beyond anything that we're capable of."

• Paul Watson [12:12]: "If you believe that something is right, then go for it and accept the challenges..."

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For more insights and inspirational content from leading Rewilding scholars, poets, artists, and organizers, visit rewilding.org and sign up for the weekly digest.

Transcript

[Paul Watson]

One of the things I've tried to do over the, over the years is to encourage people to understand that each and every one of us has the ability to change the world, to make a difference, that we just need to harness our skills and our abilities and couple that to the wagon of courage and passion and imagination. And with that, you can do incredible things. But also, most importantly, people should be encouraged to understand that, to not allow anybody to deter you, to, to. If you believe that something is right, then go for it and accept the challenges that are put in, put in your way. And it's an extremely rewarding, you know, life if you, if you, if you approach it that way.

[Interviewer]

Ye.

[Podcast Announcer]

You're listening to the Rewilding Earth podcast.

[Interviewer]

He's been called a pirate, an eco.

[Narrator]

Warrior, and a controversial hero. For over four decades, Captain Paul Watson has been a relentless force in the fight to protect our oceans and the life within them. Founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society and the Paul Watson Foundation, Captain Watson and his crews have taken direct action against illegal whaling, sealing and fishing operations around the globe. Due to Paul and his crew's unrelenting pressure, countless whales and other marine life have been spared. From upholding international whaling laws against Japan's illegal whaling operations to disrupting the hunts of the notorious Faroe Islands. His tactics have earned him both praise from conservationists and condemnation from the remaining few whaling nations. Today, Watson joins us to discuss his recent arrest and five month ordeal in a Danish prison, facing possible extradition to Japan, the unwavering commitment that drives him, and what lies ahead in the ongoing battle to save our seas.

[Interviewer]

Okay, well, first of all, has this begun to sink in? How are you feeling?

[Paul Watson]

Oh, I'm feeling really good. I'm really happy that I'll be able to be home for Christmas with my two little boys.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I can't wait for you to do that as well. You know, Japan's had it in for you for quite a while and you guys have been duking it out for many years and you've always come out on top, much to the chagrin of Japan and the other remaining whaling countries. But this time, how big of a mistake would you say Japan has made?

[Paul Watson]

Well, what they did was turn my. Well, I was able to turn my incarceration into a campaign to continue to focus on attention on their illegal whaling operations. So I think it backfired on them there because it got worldwide attention. And not only that, we had the added bonus of focusing attention on the killing of pilot whales and dolphins in the Danish Faroe Islands. So I was quite confident in the evidence and the documentation that I wouldn't be extradited to Japan. It just took Denmark, like five months to come to that same conclusion. And in the end, it was a political decision. The Danish Attorney General made the decision, although the court ruled that I should be extradited.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I can't believe it took that long. It was. It was tense. From the outside, it looked like you were probably one of the busiest prisoners there. You were able to do an awful lot, as you said, it was a mass mobilization from out here. It was every day free Paul Watson, and lots and lots of organizing. So it was. Was really cool, actually, under the circumstances to see everyone rally like that.

[Paul Watson]

Yeah, it was hard to get the information out. Fortunately, I had Lamiasam Lami from Sea Shepherd, France, and Natalie Gill from Sea Shepherd, Brazil, came to Greenland to visit. So on their visits they were able to, you know, get information out. And also I received, I think while I was in there, about 4,500 letters altogether. And although I couldn't answer all of them, I tried to answer as many as possible. And I was able to do quite a few interviews while, you know, the media interviews, which they made arrangements to come into the prison to do those interviews, you know, like the Guardian, even Nat Geo came in and did an interview.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Was there any particular clarifying moment for you when you were in, Any new plans or any adjustment in the plans going forward that you've had?

[Paul Watson]

Well, you know, for 50 years, I've been working to oppose whaling operations around the world, and it's been a very successful 50 years. We've shut down whaling since 1974. We shut down whaling in Australia and Chile, South Africa, Spain, Peru, South Korea. So about 90% of the world's whaling has been ended. And as of 2019, whaling has been restricted to the territorial waters of Japan, Iceland and Norway, though, although Japan's trying to get back to the Southern Ocean. And I think that a lot of the publicity that this campaign generated has kept them from returning this year and hopefully again next year. Nevertheless, we have a ship in Australia ready to intercept them if they should return to the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary. And we also have a ship in the Atlantic to oppose a couple of vessels actually, to oppose any attempts by Iceland to resume whaling in June of 2025.

[Interviewer]

Some people are. I've. I've been reading a lot, and some people are saying this decision may or may not be a big help in the broader fight, in the intimidation of activists around the world by Countries using international laws like they did with you or, or, or the court system. Do you see this as maybe having any kind of a chilling effect?

[Paul Watson]

Well, I think that Japan has been trying to, you know, look, look at this as a deterrent from anybody interfering with their art. But we're, you know, we're seeing more and more repressive measures being taken against activists over the last 10, 20 years, more so than, you know, before. And we're probably going to be more so. I think that the key to success is what our approach is, which I call aggressive non violence, to aggressively intervene but don't injure anybody. And we've never caused an injury to anybody. And really it takes a combination of passion, courage and imagination to, you know, to make a difference. So we always have to come up with, with new ideas how to capture everyone's attention at the same time without hurting anybody. Like a good example this last year I think has been the movie, you know, how to Blow Off a Pipeline and everything, which is brilliant. How to blow off a Pipeline by not blowing up a pipeline. And you know, FBI were all nervous about the whole thing, but it turned out, you know, the message got across and nobody was hurt. And you know, so again, it proves that the most powerful weapon on the, on the planet is the camera. And if used properly, it can change the world.

[Interviewer]

And it has, I mean, wow, just by your example. But I think a lot of people are picking up on that now and realizing that is the way to go. How, how might the rewilding movements and, and ocean conservation movements work better together going forward? How might we best work together on these things?

[Paul Watson]

Well, of course everything's connected, whether it be, you know, for instance, when I worked with Cheap brownie and in the Amazon when we were at the COP21 conference, you know, it was, it was the lungs of the earth. One lung is green, one lung is blue. And together that they provide, you know, the life support system for the planet. And so both are very, very, very important. But also, you know, the strength of an ecosystem is in diversity. Therefore the strength of a, any movement is in diversity. So it's really literally thousands and thousands of individuals and organizations working towards the same thing. And even doing something just a small thing by devoting your, well, it's not really a small thing, but by devoting your life to protecting just one little species, be that of a plant or an animal or everything that can truly make a difference. And for example, because of Diane Fossey, we still have mountain gorillas in Rwanda and David Wingate, an individual in Bermuda who, because of that one man, the Bermuda Storm petrel, did not go extinct. And I can't think of a more noble thing that anyone could do. Is that because you lived, a species was saved from extinction or a habitat was protected. So, unfortunately, there's no end to the challenges that we have to have to base. And everything out there needs a champion, whether it be a river system or. Or a particular species or whatever. Just have to focus on championing a particular individual or cause or whatever. And I think that's, cumulatively, that's what makes a difference.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So the other side's always going to have more money and apparently more power. This is probably not going to be the last time you're harassed. What do you think about that going forward? It takes a lot of courage to do what you do. And a lot of other people are doing very courageous things, and we see them being constantly poked and prodded and attacked and jailed. And was there any clarifying moment when you were incarcerated that you came up with any ideas about how we do that? How do we be courageous in this sort of environment?

[Paul Watson]

Well, you have to take every situation and view it as an opportunity. And in my case, our campaign where I was taken off the ship and put into the prison presented an opportunity to continue to expose illegal Japanese whaling. And we always have to look for those opportunities and, you know, use everything at your disposal within the context of the situation that you're. You're in. And so really, that's all you really, really can do. But also, I think it's important to operate within the boundaries of practicality. And that is, I've been doing the. I'm 74 years old now, and I've never been convicted of a. Of a crime, but I've been in jail numerous times. So you have to be. You have to expect that that's one of the prices you have to pay. And when you really look at the history of social movements, anybody who's ever accomplished anything spent some time in jail, whether it be Gandhi or Mandela or so many other peoples, you know, and that's just something that you have to do, but you make the best of it and make it work for you and that. And so I look at the past five months as having presented an opportunity to turn this entire thing into a campaign to further expose what Japan and Denmark are doing.

[Interviewer]

What do you think about 2025 and going ahead? I know you've probably just got your family and other things in your mind right now.

[Paul Watson]

Well, we're prepared to confront Iceland again in June for when they intend to go back to killing whales illegally. We have a ship stationed in Australia prepared to intervene if Japan returns to the Southern Ocean. I'm also working with projects with Sea Shepherd France to protect the turtles and Mayotte, which actually the Mayotte just got ravaged by a cyclone. And so the situation there is very desperate. And when things become desperate, they won't, they turn to poaching. So we're encouraging local people to go out there and do everything they can to protect the turtles from the poachers. Protecting orcas off of Iberia and overfishing in the North Atlantic. Working with Sea Shepherd Brazil to protect the river dolphins and the manatees in Amazonia. So it's an extensive diversity of challenges that we have to have to overcome.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. How do you handle this? I mean, you've been doing it long enough. It probably is no big deal to you, but the scope of these individual operations is just kind of mind boggling.

[Paul Watson]

Don't do it all by myself.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Paul Watson]

You know, there's a lot of people with great talents who are, who are involved around the world. And you know, one of the things I've tried to do over the, over the years is to encourage people to understand that each and every one of us has the ability to change the world, to make a difference, that we just need to harness our skills and our abilities and couple that to the wagon of courage and passion and imagination. And with that, you can do incredible things. But also, most importantly, people should be encouraged to understand that, to not allow anybody to deter you, to, to. If you believe that something is right, then go for it and accept the challenges that are put in, put in your way. And it's an extremely rewarding, you know, life if you, if you, if you approach it that way.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I really wanted to ask you this ever since I saw the interview and I saw you talking about whale communication and science and even AI and I have to ask you about what you think about all of that. I was really, really inspired and intrigued by what you talk.

[Paul Watson]

Well, way back in 1974, I was absolutely convinced that we would one day be able to communicate with whales. I mean, we're looking at a really, you know, sophisticated intelligence with animals that have far better communication abilities than we do. And last year there was a successful communication between scientists and a humpback whale up in the Bering Sea. And now we're working there. Scientists are working with AI and you know, looking to communicate with sperm whales. In fact, we're actually breaking a lot of barriers and understanding the language of birds or even the language of trees. All of these species communicate with each other, and whales actually communicate with each other like our computers computer do. So, you know, they put. They process a large amount of information in sound bites and then communicate with each other on that. I mean, these are intelligent capabilities far beyond anything that we're capable of. But I think with the assistance of computers, technology, whatever, that we will be able to surmount that. And that's a possibility for, you know, for actually doing something. I hope in my lifetime that we'll one day be able to talk to a whale. I don't know if we really want to know what they have to. What they think about what we've done to them, but. Yeah, well, there's a lot to learn there. I mean, we spend billions and billions of dollars searching through the universe for extraterrestrial intelligence when it's sitting right here on our own planet.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I know. I. I think it's crazy, too, that we want to go to Mars and turn it into an Earth while we're turning Earth into Mars.

[Paul Watson]

Yeah, we're not capable of communicating with. With other creatures on our own planet. We're certainly not going to be able to communicate with whatever extraterrestrial life there may be somewhere in the universe.

[Interviewer]

Yes. I think often, especially the. The deep sea stuff that you see that the aliens must be among us, because there's some really crazy stuff, and hardly anybody really cares about that stuff. It never gets past, you know, like Discovery Channel and Attenborough.

[Paul Watson]

We all were prisoners of this anthropocentric mentality that everything was created for us. It's all about us. We're the only species that. That actually matters. And the very idea that to suggest that other creatures are intelligent or more intelligent than we are is considered very bizarre. You know, I was debating a Norwegian whaler one time, and he said to me, watson, you say that whales are more intelligent than people. How can you say something so absolutely stupid? And I said, george, you know, I measure intelligence by the ability to live in harmony with the natural world. And by that criteria, whales are far more intelligent than we are. And he said, well, by that criteria, cockroaches are more intelligent than we are. I said, george, you're beginning to understand what I'm trying to tell you.

[Interviewer]

I love that. Yeah, the also had. You had talked about how whales are very open about feeding areas, and they don't hoard things like we do, like hide the gold and hide the, the, the stuff that we do, we, the whales just tell each other from across, you know, the ocean where the best feeding grounds and everything are. They're so open and sharing. And I thought that was a really cool conversation as well.

[Paul Watson]

Well, they also live in an ecosystem where they don't need material things like tools or whatever. We also, we equate intelligence with the ability to use tools. It's eye to hand coordination. I mean, if a blob of protoplasm steps out of a spaceship with a ray gun, no argument, it must be intelligent. But, you know, we, we just cannot understand what was it? An intelligence that doesn't have tools, it doesn't have a need for tools. And so that's a fail. That's a, it's primate behavior. In fact, greed is actually primate behavior. It's not just found in humans. It's also found in, you know, in, in chimpanzees and, and baboons too. It's a, that's a fault of our particular group of animals. But I don't think that, you know, orcas or dolphins and whales and that. I don't think they're capable of that kind of thing. Agreed. I don't even think they're capable of vengeance. You know, we hear about, you know, an attack on a human by a shark or even, or by a dolphin or whatever and say, well, they're, they're after us or vengeance, but I don't think they're capable of that. For instance, or we're dealing with a situation right now off of Iberia where orcas have been accused of attacking sailboats and causing damage to sailboats and immediately people jumped out. Well, they must, they must have some sort of revenge against us or going after it. But really it comes down to playing. They're just playing with, they don't. Playing with it. And one of the things that we discovered that works is that if your boat's being harassed by orcas, you just throw some floating buoys out alongside and they'll go after them too. You know, they're just, there's no intent to actually cause harm to people. I've been in situations in my life with orcas, with dolphins, with sharks, with whales and so many other species that could have easily have killed me. And that didn't happen. It didn't even come close to happening in that. I've, I've actually wrote, you know, back in 1975, three of us jumped into the water in front of a pod of approaching orcas in the Bella Bella Straits in British Columbia. And that was interesting. We, we jumped into the water and our. When you see an orca from the deck of a ship, that's one thing, but when you're now looking at the orca and only your head's above the water, that's a completely different perspective. And we saw the pod approaching and. And my first thought was, these guys eat sea lions, you know, and suddenly they all dove. And the only thing more disconcerting than a pot of approaching orcas is one that suddenly disappears. And now you don't know where they are. And they did. They surface right beside us. And I, for some silly reason, I reached out and I grabbed the dorsal fin of the one right beside me and he pulled me through the water for about, you know, a hundred meters. And then I was spinning off in his, in his wake. And. And it occurred to me, you don't go up into the Serengeti and pet a lion on the head. And this is the most powerful predator on the planet. Just allowed me to ride alongside with them. Now, I don't think it's because they like us so much, but I think they're intelligent enough to understand that they have to live. It's a mutual coexistence with us, that they know how dangerous we are and therefore, yeah, let's not mess with these people. They're, they're, they're extreme. And there's never been a case of an orca attacking a human being in the world. It's never happened. We go back to 1912, when Captain Scott's men were crossing the ice and orcas came up underneath of them, knocked them off their feet. When the orcas realized that they weren't penguins, they just left. They didn't pursue the attack.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, I think there's a, it's a, there's a trend for the paddle boarders to put videos up on YouTube, having encounters, and the commenters are always like, wow, that's really dangerous. That's really. He was going to eat you, all of those things. And I think it's just more exciting for people to tell that story and imagine those things than ever even accepting the idea that they're just playing and curious.

[Paul Watson]

I've met quite a few surfers who've actually been attacked by sharks, lost limbs, arm or leg, and have turned out to become champions for the sharks. They understand that this is their ecosystem. It wasn't anything vindictive that unfortunately, a surfer looks like a seal from underneath, you know, and that. And it's usually a case of mistaken identity. But we do have to realize that these are, this is their home. Kelly Slater, he said, in response to sharks, he said, well, if you don't, if you don't want to be attacked by sharks, just don't go into the water. You know, it's as simple that this is a risk you have to take. And I, I found over the years that people like surfers and divers and that a lot of them become ambassadors for the ocean. They understand the ecosystem they're in and that the best thing is to do no harm when, when they're, when they're in that. In their home.

[Interviewer]

Well, Paul, I really, really thank you for taking the time to do this.

[Paul Watson]

Oh, thank you. Want to add just one more thing is how much, you know, I miss Dave Borman. I had the opportunity to spend some time with him just a couple of years ago, and, you know, he has always been, always been an inspiration in my life ever since I met him in the early 80s.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, me too. Miss him bad. All right, well, thank you so much, Paul, and good luck, and enjoy your family, and we'll all be anxiously awaiting your next move and all your new news.

[Paul Watson]

Thank you.

[Podcast Announcer]

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