Episode 148: The Art of Finding Balance In Choppy Waters With Dana Lyons

Summary

Rewilding Earth Podcast - Episode 148: The Art of Finding Balance In Choppy Waters With Dana Lyons

Release Date: May 16, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 148 of the Rewilding Earth Podcast, host Jack Humphrey welcomes the esteemed musician and environmental advocate, Dana Lyons. Renowned for his impactful songs like "Cows with Guns," Dana shares insights into balancing his dual roles as an artist and organizer, the inspirations behind his music, and his unwavering commitment to conservation and social justice.

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Balancing Artistry and Organizing

Dana Lyons opens the conversation by reflecting on the importance of maintaining a balance between his creative pursuits and his activism. He emphasizes the necessity of stepping back to appreciate and connect with nature to fuel his artistic side.

"I'm half organizer, half artist. So those two parts of me are fighting each other and the organizer will eat the artist every time. And so I have to protect the artist."
— Dana Lyons [04:00]

Dana discusses his routine of retreating to wilderness areas—beaches, forests—where he can write music away from the distractions of the modern world. This practice not only nurtures his creativity but also reinforces his dedication to protecting wild spaces.

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Upcoming Tour and New Creative Ventures

Dana shares details about his upcoming tour scheduled for April and May, highlighting a shift towards incorporating new elements like a podcast. He expresses excitement about integrating fun and creativity into his performances, ensuring that his tour remains both enjoyable and meaningful.

"You're going to get to hear Cows With Guns today and also a great song that he wrote for his good friend Jane Goodall."
— Jack Humphrey [02:12]

Dana also teases new music, including a special tribute to Jane Goodall, showcasing his ability to intertwine personal relationships with broader conservation themes.

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The Essence of Creativity and Presence

A recurring theme in Dana's discussion is the importance of being present. He recounts his experiences during songwriting, noting that the best ideas often emerge when he's not actively seeking them but is instead fully immersed in the moment.

"The second I'm, quote, not working and I'm actually just being present, oh, guess what? The ideas just start popping into my head."
— Dana Lyons [05:15]

This philosophy not only aids his songwriting but also serves as a strategy to prevent burnout among activists and organizers, advocating for regular breaks to sustain long-term efforts in conservation.

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Song Performances and Their Meanings

"Love Song to Jane"

Dana performs his heartfelt tribute to Jane Goodall, capturing the essence of their friendship and her profound impact on conservation.

"We are curious when we're very small so excited by the beauty of it all we turn our faces up just to feel the rain..."
— Dana Lyons [10:27]

He recounts performing the song live at the Moore Theater in Seattle, sharing the nervous excitement of honoring a living legend just before her 90th birthday.

"She loved it. She loved it. And that's when I first sang it to her some years before."
— Dana Lyons [17:01]

"My Country"

Dana introduces "My Country," a song that blends patriotism with environmental advocacy, challenging listeners to redefine what it means to fight for one's country.

"Protecting wilderness is a very American and very patriotic thing to do."
— Dana Lyons [21:00]

The performance underscores the bipartisan importance of conservation, highlighting how protecting natural landscapes transcends political affiliations.

"Ride the Lawn" and "Cows with Guns"

Dana presents "Ride the Lawn," a satirical take on suburban lawn culture, followed by his iconic "Cows with Guns." He humorously engages the audience, encouraging them to embrace the playful yet poignant messages within his songs.

"It's a spoof on ourselves. It's a spoof on the great pioneering rugged individual ethic."
— Dana Lyons [39:22]

Despite the songs' humorous tones, Dana emphasizes their underlying commentary on environmental issues and societal norms.

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Patriotism and Conservation: A Unified Front

Dana delves into the intricate relationship between patriotism and environmental conservation. He reminisces about the shared values that once united conservatives and liberals in protecting national parks, lamenting the current partisan divide.

"Protecting wilderness is a very American and very patriotic thing to do."
— Dana Lyons [21:00]

Dana critiques contemporary political attacks on national parks, arguing that such actions are not reflective of the American spirit of freedom and conservation.

"Everyone loves national parks, from the poorest family to the richest gazillionaire."
— Dana Lyons [35:28]

He passionately asserts that true patriotism lies in safeguarding the nation's natural treasures and ensuring freedom and democracy for all.

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The Power of Music in Advocacy

Throughout the episode, Dana illustrates how his music serves as a tool for advocacy and unity. By blending humor, storytelling, and activism, his songs resonate with diverse audiences, fostering a deeper connection to environmental causes.

"It's part of our job as artists to help shed some light on the bizarreness of our own culture."
— Dana Lyons [30:26]

Dana's approach demonstrates the potency of art in driving social change, making complex issues accessible and engaging.

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Looking Ahead: Future Projects and Endeavors

As the conversation concludes, Dana outlines his plans for the coming year, including new music videos and collaboration on a song advocating for the reintroduction of jaguars in Arizona and New Mexico. He remains committed to blending his artistic passions with his conservation efforts, ensuring that his work continues to inspire and mobilize audiences.

"I'm working on a song for reintroducing jaguars in Arizona, New Mexico."
— Dana Lyons [58:38]

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Conclusion

Episode 148 of the Rewilding Earth Podcast offers an intimate glimpse into Dana Lyons' life as a musician and conservationist. Through candid discussions and spirited performances, Dana underscores the essential balance between creativity and activism, the enduring importance of protecting natural landscapes, and the unifying power of music in championing environmental and social justice.

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Notable Quotes

• "If you're working to protect the wild places and the critters and our beautiful world, you need to go out there and just appreciate it and just listen to it."
  — Dana Lyons [04:00]

• "Patriotism is obviously manipulated by lots of people. And so what I'm trying to remind people is when we're working to protect our families, when we're working to protect the places and the people that we love, that's what real patriotism is."
  — Dana Lyons [33:07]

• "Cows with guns. It doesn't get old for me either, because the song is so long, I sometimes forget certain jokes."
  — Dana Lyons [56:32]

Listen to Episode 148 here to delve deeper into Dana Lyons' inspiring journey and his unwavering dedication to rewilding our planet.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker]

FOREIGN.

[Dana Lyons]

Go visit your friends, get out in the wilderness, just live and be. And I always loved that Dave Foreman would say that every gathering. And it was such a good reminder because if you're working to protect the wild places and the critters and our beautiful world, you need to go out there and just appreciate it and just listen to it. And I'm half organizer, half artist. So those two parts of me are fighting each other and the organizer will eat the artist every time. And so I have to protect the artist. I go out in the wilderness, I go to the beach, I go in the forest to write music and go somewhere where there's no Internet, no phone, preferably no vehicles.

[Jack Humphrey]

You're listening to the Rewilding Earth Podcast.

[Unknown Speaker]

Foreign.

[Jack Humphrey]

Welcome to a very special episode of the Rewilding Earth Podcast. I'm your host, Jack Humphrey, and I.

[Dana Lyons]

Was lucky to sit down recently with.

[Jack Humphrey]

A dear friend of the conservation movement, known widely for his wonderful, funny, inspiring music and best known for a little song called Cows with Guns. It's currently sitting at number two in my personal top five list. And you'll find out what number one is here on this episode. Dana Lyons has toured the world for over 30 years promoting environmental and social justice causes. He's toured in 48 of the 50American states, throughout Australia, across Ireland, England, New.

[Dana Lyons]

Zealand, Canada, Kazakhstan, Patagonia and Siberia.

[Jack Humphrey]

Dana performs at festivals from Farm Aid with Willie Nelson and Neil Young to the Harley Davidson Festival in Sturgis, South Dakota. His policy of I'll play anywhere once has landed Dana Giggs on a tropical island in the Great Barrier Reef and an Irish pub in Beijing and the Hanford nuclear waste dump in his home state of Washington. Dana's concerts are a blend of comedy, beautiful ballads and fascinating stories of the road. Now, I've never been to one of Dana's official concerts, but I've been to a lot of campfires at a lot of events with Dana playing. And I have to tell you, it's a memorable experience. So I'm very, very excited today to give you a break. Take advantage and don't think you're too busy to have a little fun because it's exactly what the doctor's ordering today. And as Dana will explain, you're going to get to hear some great music today. And for those of you who follow Dana and have been wondering, yes, you definitely are going to hear Cows With Guns today and also a great song that he wrote for his good friend Jane Goodall. So stay tuned. I hope you really enjoy this episode.

[Dana Lyons]

Dana welcome to the Rewilding Earth podcast.

Thank you, Jack.

It's about time. I had to look back and go, we haven't had Dana on yet. That doesn't make any sense. You know how the world is these days.

And I heard there's something going on.

You've heard some stories and I've been thinking, I can't remember what it was. I got an email from you updating on some of your latest music, and I was going back through some old tracks. And I remember Dave Foreman warning us to take care of ourselves over the years. That was one of his greatest lessons, was take care of yourself. Remember to stop and have fun. Remember to go out and hike and get on rivers and remind yourself why you're doing what you're doing in the first place. And I thought of you again because I was like, what? Dana's been at the center of this. He's been the head of the campfire in so many situations at events.

Well, I'm thrilled you brought that up because it's reminding me to do that. And I've got this tour coming up. I'm coming to the Southwest in April and May, and it's a different kind of tour. I'm going to be dabbling in my new podcast, experimenting, trying to learn that and visiting friends. And I'm like, looking at this tour going, there's only a couple, you know, normal in person shows. And I've been looking at the store going, oh, what am I doing? Should I. Is this. And you just told me what I was doing. It's. You just. You helped me hear what my father's been saying, go visit your friends, get out in the wilderness. Just live and be. And I always loved that Dave Foreman would say that every gathering. And it was such a good reminder because if we. If you're working to protect the wild places and the critters and in our beautiful world, you need to go out there and just appreciate it and just listen to it. Just set aside the, I don't know. For those of us who like to do organizing. I'm half organizer, half artist. So those two parts of me are fighting each other. And the organizer will eat the artist every time. And so I have to protect the artist. I go out in the wilderness, I go to the beach, I go in the forest to write music and go somewhere where there's no Internet, no phone, preferably no vehicles. And so I love that he would always say that. And. And you're bringing it up now helps me realize, just leave plenty of space. In that tour. And I'm hoping to visit the San Pedro river in Southern Arizona. And that is a spectacular place. I'll be there at the height of birding seasons. Why do I need to be worrying about work? And also this. I find that, well, as an artist, and I think this is probably true for anyone who's trying to come up with ideas to do something. The second I'm, quote, not working and I'm actually just being present, oh, guess what? The ideas just start popping into my head because I'm out of the way. And that's true for songwriting. That's true. Like, I find that if I go camping for a few weeks and don't do any, quote, work, just not being in the way, I might have one idea that just saved me a year of work. So, yes, we need to be outdoors. We need to enjoy the music. We need to listen to the birds and the other animals and. And take some chill time. I have a new song I'm working on right now, but I think my favorite line is, chill out and have some fun.

Yeah. What would you say to people who say, this is not the time for that? In the state that we're in, this is just not the time for something like that. We need to be all hands on deck. You could probably pick your friends who could be easily the ones to say that to you. We all have them.

Right?

But in this really, in the way things are going right now, can we justify it?

If someone said that to me, I would say, you need a drink. You need to chill out and have some fun. It's. It's a matter of strategy. It's like it, you know, anyone who's working hard for something they believe and that they love, and we're lucky, we're lucky that we understand that we can actually do that. A lot of people don't realize they can do that. We get enormous amount of joy. But anyone who's doing that kind of work knows what the words burnout mean. It's. Oh, great. Yeah, we could work forever. And I know who exactly who you're talking about. You said you can imagine who those people are. I know who they are, and I'm talking to them right now. That's part of the myth of the Protestant work ethic. There's this myth that if you just work harder and longer and obsess and never take any time to yourself, you're actually be more efficient. That's incorrect. The mind needs time to relax and recharge. We, as human beings, we are unlike Everything we've learned our whole lives in this crazy culture. We are not the center of the universe, the land and the other creatures and who knows what else has gifts for us. They have information for us. And if we're never available to hear it, if we don't take two seconds away from work even to listen to our friends, our friend might be talking about their relationship or their house or something and sounds like nothing to do with work, but they might say something profound that touches us and that goes, oh, wow. Yeah, I'm. I hear you.

Well, I don't know how the guy writes so much, but George Werther sure does know how to have fun. And for those of you who don't know, look him [e-mail], he's written 10,000 articles or something. He's one of the most prolific writers out there. But he's also, if you follow him on Facebook, he's got. It's every week an epic shot of this mountain range and the skiing or the hiking that he's doing. And when he is just truly soaking it up, I probably ought to have him on to go. How is your work life balance that good? Like, how are you doing that? He's retired, but still, it's a lot of work and it's a lot of life.

Or another way to put it is, where do you get off having so much fun?

Yeah. Who told you you were allowed to do that? He's great at that. Well, what would you play to. To start us off with something? And maybe it's in the mood to take a break.

Well, maybe. I'm not sure if this is the right answer to that question, the song, but it's what my instinct is saying. This is. I'm not saying love song to Jane. This is a. On my new album. And this is. I love this song because it's a. It's a love song to the world. It's just to sit back and admire its beauty, its sacredness, and. And I'll sing this tune. So this will be. Maybe we'll get into more chill out and have some fun songs later on. But this, you gotta. You gotta weave your way toward the chill out and have some fun. So.

[Unknown Speaker]

We are curious when we're very small so excited by the beauty of it all we turn our faces up just to feel the rain we're feeling that. We're feeling that love song to Jane. I see the gentle courage in your eyes Walking out alone into the wild Risking love is also risking pain we're risking that we're risking that love song to Jane and the only way for you to save your life, friends Is a trip around the world that never ends and you teach us every day as you urge us on our way Keep living that Keep living that love song to Jane Dragon flies and frogs and mice and skits Watching lion kittens as they play Africa America is waiting for the rain Waiting for that love song to change A hundred years from now we will see the elephant's chimpanzees and our great granddaughters Turn their faces up to the rain they'll be singing that they'll be singing that love song.

[Dana Lyons]

To Jane.

[Unknown Speaker]

And the only way for you to save your friends.

[Dana Lyons]

Is a.

[Unknown Speaker]

Trip around the world that never ends and you teach us every day as you urge us on our way Keep living that Keep living that love song to Jane and you teach us every day as you urge us on our way Keep living that Keep living that love song to Jane Keep risking that Keep risking that love song to Jane Keep singing that Keep singing that A love song to Jane.

[Dana Lyons]

Nice.

I. I wrote it for Jane Goodall, our friend and singer for All Places Wild. Casey Neal. He. He saw the Jane Goodall video some years ago and he calls me up, he says, dana, I'm totally wired on. It was Sunday morning. I'm totally wired on coffee. So sorry about that, but I just saw the movie about Jane Goodall. Someone needs to write a love song to Jane and you're friends with her, so you should write it. Oh, that's a beautiful idea. So I did and I've got to sing it for Jane. I actually got to sing it to her four days before her 90th birthday at the. In the Moore Theater in Seattle. So that was a. Wow. Real thrill.

Was. Is something like that nerve wracking for you given.

Oh yeah, it's. It was funny because I was very aware that Moore Theater is a beautiful 1920s theater in Seattle. And it's. I don't know, got thousands of people in it and very. One of the classy roaring 20s theaters. And I was just very aware that this might be the coolest gig of my life. And so I got there five hours early just to really settle in and make sure everything was dialed in. And I was. I had a mantra all day. It's you got to be present, man. You got just be present. This is very special. Don't go on autopilot. Do an excellent job, but don't be on all part. Just soak it in. I was successful at that. So I memorized the whole thing as it was going on. And it wasn't easy because you walk out on stage and one, there's Jane sitting there singing. That's. That's big enough. And then I'm in this huge theater, which I'm not used to, and I'm getting used to the sound, and I get one song to get used to that. I have to get used to this big sound coming at me. And then on top of that, they're filming a movie. So I'm just settling in. And then all of a sudden, right three feet away from me, there's a camera in my face. I'm like, all right, Dana, you need to chill.

Yeah.

Ground. Just enjoy it. This is pretty cool. Just. This is all fun. And. Yeah, so it was. I was. I was happy with myself that I was able to hold my act together.

How happy were you with how she received the song?

Oh, she loved it. She loved it. And that's when I first sang it to her some years before. She loved it. And then I made a music video that's on YouTube. Love song to Jane, and she loved that. And she's very appreciative, and, of course, that means the world to me.

Yeah. Well, I can't think of a harder worker than Jane Goodall in the conservation movement, and she was there to enjoy herself. There's a good example. There's a tie in right there, is there? She can take breaks.

She was doing her thing. We were on stage in the middle of her talk, and she was. I looked over at her in the middle of song, and she just had her eyes closed, and she was just taking it in. I'm like, she was present. Made it easier for me to be present.

There is always time to take a break and. And listen. I remember Dave Foreman, we were going down a river, and we had just gotten on the river, and I mentioned something about work that I didn't get done, and he admonished me. I said something like, I. I didn't do enough work. He said, we are working right now. This is work. You got to come out. You got to enjoy yourself. You have to. And by the way, we're surveying this whole river corridor. This is a corridor. Then he started going on rewilding, and I never, ever brought up work in that way again. With Dave on the river.

Absolutely. That's a sacred. Yeah, I'm taking, like, there's at least two takeaways I'm taking for our talk. Here is one of my upcoming tour. I need To. It's okay. I need a bath. Leave some time to really take in the beautiful places I'm going.

[Unknown Speaker]

And then.

[Dana Lyons]

And I just got an email a few days ago about a river trip that I'm like. And I'm thinking, God, I don't know if I can squeeze that in. And I'm like talking to you now. I'm like, I'm gonna look into squeezing that in.

Yeah, there might be a song on that trip.

Absolutely.

You never know what rock you're gonna overturn and come out with another love love song or another cows with guns. You don't know what's gonna come out from under those rocks.

You never know.

Well, what are you interested in playing next?

Well, I was thinking about playing this song. I played this at Dave Foreman's memorial there at Bandelier National Monument. And this is, this is talking about protecting the wildlands. And this is something I really agreed with with Dave Foreman and a lot of folks at that the rednecks for wilderness idea that working to protect the, the land and the country and the habitat, that's, that, that's patriotic. Like I, I love that in the 80s tree sitters, many of many would hang the American flag off the tree sitting platform. And I really believe that I was raised in the middle of middle America, New Paltz, New York. We were like 55% Republican, 45% Democrat, basically. 50, 50. It was both an ag town and a university town. So it was really the mix. And I grew up in the 60s and I grew up with this very strong sense of patriotism. And I know a lot of people think that's weird and maybe it is, but that's the way I grew up. And, and I. America the beautiful and this land is your land. Talking about the beautiful places. I see that as part of our country as much as I do the democracy as flooded as it is. But we gotta protect our democracy, protect our freedom, protect, protect our ability to run small businesses and not be overrun by monopolists and gazillionaires and all that. But I really appreciated that. To protect wilderness is a very American and very patriot patriotic thing to do. And I appreciated that. And I know this from my work. There's Republicans and Democrats that come to my shows now. Granted it's way tilted toward the lefty greeny Democratic side. But like I, I purposefully tell stories at my shows about struggles to protect the environment where very conservative people and very progressive people work together. Like I talk about the Keystone XL pipeline in Nebraska. I talk about fighting Fracking in northern New South Wales and Australia, where I went and I did three week tour for both of those songs. I went and I interviewed both farmers and greenies and because a lot of people, a lot of environmentalists don't think that conservative rural people care about the environment and they're just wrong about that. And so like right now, when our national parks are being attacked, when our forests are being attacked, that's not a left or right issue. I know that the media wants to make it that. I know certain members of certain parties want to make it that, that. But when you talk to people, they love those places. Maybe there's a difference because some people, maybe some of the people in the countryside want to protect it so they can hunt and fish. And maybe that rubs some of the animal rights people the wrong way. But in the end they're trying to protect the land. And so it meant a lot to me that that was a one of the positions that Dave and some of the people took. And there was obviously differing opinions about that. And I know there are today. But to me it resonates with who I am. It's the way I grew up. But I'll play this song. This is called My Country.

[Unknown Speaker]

Sam Saint Inside a hospital with a nine digit number code I pledged allegiance to the flag When I was only four years old the first thing that I learned in school is we are a kind country free when bad forces attack our land I'll fight for my.

[Dana Lyons]

Country.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'll fight for my country.

[Dana Lyons]

I.

[Unknown Speaker]

Joined the scouts when I was 12 put on a uniform I learned there how to fold the flag and I've looked the proud man was worn we camped in the mountains, deserts and plains we hiked through the giant trees and I saw God in the beauty there I'll fight for my country I'll fight for my country With a heavy pack and a cluttered mind the young man walks all alone 6,000 miles away he finds for the first time that he feels at home and he laughs to himself as he faces his fear in the land of the mighty grizzly it once was like this everywhere I'll fight for my country it once was like this everywhere I'll fight for my country now I love this river love this land and I love my green mountain home and when they come to cut the forest here they won't be fighting me along. Cause the wildlands are the places we go to remember what it means to be free when bad forces attack our land I'll fight for my country.

[Dana Lyons]

I'll.

[Unknown Speaker]

Fight for my country I'll fight for my country Ram Sam.

[Dana Lyons]

I hope that sounded okay.

I'm not sure it sounded great. It sounded great. Yeah. We have a little bit of a. We have done a little bit of a number on your setup and the Zoom setup here. This is not usual. I don't think a lot of people do this, although I found out as we were troubleshooting, a lot of guitar teachers are out there using Zoom and have a lot of good tips on how to make sound work. So thank you, guys, whoever you were. That was awesome. I have to now tell you that is currently my favorite song. Has been for quite some time. And I just. I laugh about it, too, because it's got a little hidden joke. I like to watch people try to figure out if they're at the right meeting. When you start singing it is this Fight for my country stuff sounds an awful lot. That country channel or something that I don't want. And then they hear the lyrics. They hear. They start listening. And I like to watch their faces when they light up. Okay. I like to fight for my country, too. I get it. I get it.

It's true. It's funny. I remember the first time I think I played it in public, I was playing Asheville, North Carolina, and I had a lot of friends there, and they know me well, and I'm playing this song, and the place is. Everyone's just. The whole place is just going, huh? They're listening to me. And it's not till the very last verse where they go, ah, yeah. Redefining what some of us think about as fighting for our country.

You probably enjoy that, don't you? Taking people, bending things around a little bit and making people's minds go, huh.

I guess I'm busted on that one.

Because it's not the first time you've done it, that's for sure.

Oh, I like to just weave it out there. Weave it out there, and then come in for a quick break. Bite.

Yeah.

And that's. That's. I mean, we in the arts, that's where we're really lucky, because you're singing a song, you're telling a story, you're painting a painting, you're writing a novel, you're. Whatever, you're doing, a poet, poetry, people. People will give you a bit of a benefit of a doubt. Like what? On this song, there is. It's funny because some of the crew is now, where's he going with this? And then the group that. The other group is. Right on, brother. Tell it.

Yeah.

But I do. I enjoy doing that. And it's part of our job as artists is to help. Well, to try to. Well, this is what I try to do. But I think a lot of artists do try to shed some light on the bizarreness of our own culture. And when you're in a culture, it just. You grew up in a place that's normal. The family you're raised with, that's a normal family. The town you're raised with, that's a normal town or city. Just. That's the way it is. And so it's hard. It's understandable that we don't. None of us in the world really understand some of the weirdnesses of our own cultures. But I like, with the arts, you can. The key is if someone. If you can allow someone to feel comfortable, they have to trust me or the storyteller, they can be a little bit uncomfortable. They have to basically go, this person's a reasonable person. He's a good guy. He's okay. Tells a good joke. It's a little green for me. But he's okay. He's a reasonable guy. I don't agree with him on everything, but if you. And that goes the other way, too. So, like with my friends with this song, it's like, what. Where the. What is Dana talking about? Patriotism, country, blah, blah, blah. But they don't necessarily know that about me. They don't know where I was raised necessarily. But I hope this is a unifying song in the end. Where it's. I understand the whole weirdness about. And questioning about the whole idea of patriotism and everything, but on its simplest form, it's who you're, who you love, who you're loyal to. It's. It's. Whether it's your family or your community or your neighborhood or nation. States are a new thing. Maybe in the. When we were hunter gatherers, it would be the tribe, but there's a. That's a natural part of being human to primates. We operate in groups and you're going to be loyal to your group. And so it's just. It's tapping into that. And I think it's. Patriotism is obviously manipulated by lots of people. And so what I'm trying to remind people is when we're working to protect our families, when we're working to protect the places and the people that we love, that's what real patriotism is. And working to protect our rights, that's what the real deal is. And certainly protecting the land and the wild places is part of that.

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.

Edward Abbey, Thomas Jefferson, they were in the same band, I think.

Yeah, I think a lot of people, they see other groups glomming onto words and now they belong to them somehow. And now I can't use that word while. But I still identify with it. And in my mind, I still use it. I'm patriotic, but I can't say it out loud because that means they've almost done it with the flag, almost completely with the flag of the United States.

And it's for the powers that would like to control our democracy, would like to keep the people down. They've done a brilliant job at it, trying to make us afraid to associate with our flag. And fair enough. There's a lot of shameful things that the United States has done, but there's also some pretty wonderful things we have done. And to make a more perfect union, like we're always striving to do better. There are like. I like to think about the beauty of the land, the beauty of our people, how creative we are. And our system of government is obviously very under attack right now. But the system of government can take centuries of struggle. But trying to give all rights to all people, just make it a more free place where everyone's vote counts and where people can live with respect and dignity and safety. And that's a beautiful thing we do. We get it wrong plenty of times. Absolutely. And as some people would say, well, I don't want to be associated with that. All right, I get that. But it also, I think our flag is synonymous with some really beautiful things. So.

[Jack Humphrey]

You'Re listening to the Rewilding Earth podcast. Did you know we also publish insightful and inspirational content from leading Rewilding scholars, poets, artists and organizers from around the world. You can visit rewilding.org and sign up for our weekly digest to receive brilliant, fresh insights on everything Rewilding. You'll find over a decade of articles and news from the front lines of wildlands protection and all kinds of restoration efforts. Check us [e-mail] and don't forget to share it with friends.

[Dana Lyons]

I think one thing right now, politically, is what's going on around national parks. Because for us, for me, anyway, and that is because that was the last thing that conservatives and Democrats agreed on. In my mind. That was the very last thing that never had partisanship attached to it or very rarely did. It was one of the issues that was a shoe in. If there was a national park issue you'd see people on both sides of the aisle shaking hands and getting along. And right at the moment, it is not the case. And I was really sad to see that go. It was a pulling apart of something I thought would never pull apart.

And you know what? I don't think it is really pulling apart for the people. I think the would be oligarchs, the would be kings. They're so arrogant. I'm sitting on the sidelines going, if I was on their advising committee, I'd be like, oh, you're overreaching. You could steal almost everything, but you're overreaching. Like, they're almost. It's spiteful what they're doing. The idea that you would attack national parks and shut them down, like I heard on the news on NBC or something, supposedly that Rocky Mountain national park is going to be closed for the summer because they don't have enough staff. That is not a good way to make friends. Like all Americans love our national parks. We're the envy of the world with our national park system. Other countries are modeling it out after us every. Everyone loves national parks, from the poorest family to the richest gazillionaire. And I think that's a great mistake. And I think they're making a number of overreach mistakes for things that we really hold dear. And they are gonna. That's gonna be part of their downfall in the end, I think. I know it's a very frightening time. I know a lot of people are going, well, are Americans going to rise? Are they going to do something about this? And I believe we really are. I think that's. I think I understand why the billionaire oligarchs think we're going to all be hiding in our corners and going, oh, no. But I think the reason they're wrong is because when people really feel the loss, when they feel the pain, when their national park doesn't open, when their child is not getting the special education, when the neighbor who's the vet has been fired from one of these government jobs, when you just go on and on and they don't feel quite as safe getting on the airplane and this and that, and then small businesses start to suffer and people's retirement start to suffer, and old people are going, what the heck? On Social Security, at some point, Americans are going to feel the pain, and they're going to go to the myth we've all been raised with. And we Americans, we believe whether it's true or not, we believe in freedom, and we believe that we fight for Freedom. And we're all. Virtually every person in this country is either the descendant of someone who ran away from a king or oppression or was dragged over here in chains or was a Native American who had their land stolen. Virtually everyone here has been under some kind of. Is a descendant or some kind of oppression. So we don't like that. We don't like that. And I just believe. I believe that. I think we're still figuring it out. It's complex. I get that. And I just think there's a moment, and we all know this as individuals. There's a moment when you get pushed one step too far. I think that will arrive for us.

Give me between these two songs, rank them for me. Which is your greatest fight song? Is it Ride the Lawn? Or is it Cows with Guns? And I need you to give it to me straight.

Which is the greatest fight song? Ride the Lawn is. That's making a hero out of the Rider of the Lawn. And that kind of. That's a commentary on American culture. I learned about lawns from Dave Foreman. He would give talks on lawns and how that's so important, especially to the American male. But no, Cows with Guns is the fight song. And. And it's funny. I try not to talk about what my songs mean because really, what does a song mean? It means to. It's whatever the listener thinks it means. It's really none of my business.

That's why I think Ride the Lawn could be a fight song. It to me means that it's. It's got some undercurrents. Maybe you didn't mean to put them in there, but I. Reading a lot into that song.

Well, let me think about that.

Yes, it's that proud domination. It's what we did to get here today. Now we've got lawns everywhere.

It's a spoof. It's a spoof on ourselves. It's a spoof on the great pioneering rugged individual ethic. Well, honey, thanks for that delicious lunch. I'm going to venture out onto the my lot, cut my 20ft a yard, and I'm going to subdue. Subdue the.

With a cup holder with your. For your beer. They didn't have cup holders on horses on the range, did they? I think there's a difference. People who are new here are really struggling to figure out what we're talking about, but I assure you, you're about to know. And I am sure that also you're going to get a couple giggles. So stay tuned.

My grandpa was a cowboy and his PA before him they rode the range killed the buffalo and fought the Indian but the great herd's on the prairie and the wild frontier is gone so to carry on my heritage I go.

[Unknown Speaker]

Out and ride the lawn Ride the.

[Dana Lyons]

Lawn.

[Unknown Speaker]

Here on my quarter acre lot I sing my freedom song Ride the lawn, ride the lawn.

[Dana Lyons]

We'Ll hunt the.

[Unknown Speaker]

Dandelion down and whack him till he's.

[Dana Lyons]

Gone My neighbor is a slacker and he rarely rides the lawn he says that he likes wildflowers with dew on them at dawn but the enemy travels quickly when the world winds are strong Next week while he's on vacation his dandies will be gone.

[Unknown Speaker]

Ride the lawn, ride the lawn Here on my quarter acre lot I sing my freedom song Ride the lawn, ride the lawn.

[Dana Lyons]

We'Ll.

[Unknown Speaker]

Hunt the dandelion down and whack him till he's gone.

[Dana Lyons]

The problem with suburbia is you cannot shoot your gun. So how does one kill herds of moles who eat grass just for fun? Well, I've loaded up my arsenal with shells and ammo cans and under cover of the fireworks July 4th I'll make my stand.

[Unknown Speaker]

Ride the lawn, ride the lawn Here on my quarter acre lot I sing my freedom song Ride the lawn, ride the lawn we'll hunt the dandelion down and whack him till he's.

[Dana Lyons]

Gone My son came home from college and he criticized my lawn he said fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides are wrong well, I'll listen to your politics and your weirdo leftist songs but when you're under my roof don't you dare speak ill.

[Unknown Speaker]

Of lawns Ride the lawn, ride the lawn Here on my quarter acre lot I sing my first freedom song Ride the lawn, ride the lawn.

[Dana Lyons]

We'Ll hunt.

[Unknown Speaker]

The dandelion down and whack him till he's gone Ride the lawn.

[Dana Lyons]

Ride the.

[Unknown Speaker]

Lawn.

[Dana Lyons]

Just as I remembered it.

Awesome. Okay.

Where do you get this stuff? For those of you who are listening, who don't know and you're about to, because I sure people are getting to Spotify or whatever, they download music, they're going to see a a portfolio they're going to in and then they're going to learn a lot about you. And I have always wondered like where do these things come from when you maybe just banged out a couple of lyrics for this song. We're noodling for some chords and some melody for this. When it hit you and you're like, this is it.

It's a really great moment when a song starts to bubble out. Something I love about songwriting is when it. When the song's coming, it's when it's happening. I'm always certain, oh, my God. Oh, my God, this is gonna be the best song ever. And it's important. And oftentimes it's the most mediocre song ever. But when it's coming out, it's really important to not burst your own bubble. Just stay in that high, stay in that belief, and you'll find out a day or a few days later in time, whether how good the song is or how lousy the song is. But it's important just to stay in it. Stay in it. And it's a wonderful moment. And both Cows with Guns and Ride the Lawn came in dreams. Like Cows with Guns. Almost the entire song came in a dream. Ride the lawn. I woke up thinking about it, and I dreamt it on. I woke up with it the morning of July 4th, which is interesting. And then I wrote it while I was marching in the Langley Fourth of July parade on Whidbey Island. And so I had it by the end of the day. So sometimes, yeah, who knows where they come from? But those songs were definitely influenced by dreams. My. My song Cows with Guns was especially big hit in Australia. And a regular question I get when I'm doing radio interviews is, what were you on? And where can I get some?

I'll have what he's having.

I wasn't. I wasn't on anything. I don't think I was eating on coffee. I think I just. It just pops in there from somewhere. And. And the story is a true story, actually. That. That is. My father and I came home, and I had learned. I went to college at Swarthmore College in Philadelphia. And I came home. We were in upstate, lived in upstate New York. That's where I grew up. And I was a sophomore. And the great thing about going to college is you learn all this important stuff that your parents need to hear about right away. So I'm just going off, blah, blah, pontificating about what I learned about lawns and how the pesticides, how the fertilizers flow into the river. And we were down near the Chesapeake Bay, so it was creepy. Creating an algae bloom in the Chesapeake Bay. And I'm going on and on. And I didn't think to look at my father while I was pontificating about lawns. And when I finally did, he was not happy. He was not happy. And he's quite a bit bigger than me, and he had this awkward posture, and he just looks at me. And he goes, your mother and I support what you boys do, but we will not speak of lawns in this house. And he walked out of the room, and he did not speak to me the entire day. That's never happened before or since. Wow. Mad. And I'm like, whoa. I don't know what I did, but I definitely did something. But when the song came out, he loves the song. He's even in the ride the lawn music video. I said, okay, dad, your part is you're watching your son mow the lawn and have trouble with his mower, and your job is to be thinking and have a look on your face. I can't believe what an idiot I have for a son. And my father said, oh, this will be easy.

That's not even acting right. Dads can do that. Yeah. Awesome. Wow. I'm glad you said that. Boy, that puts a whole new thing on there. There is, now that I think about it, such a familiarity in the way that you sing that song. I can totally see you're almost just telling it like it is.

That is my life. That song is my life.

Okay, well, now that's all fine and good, and I can believe that that story is believable to me, But I cannot reconcile cows with guns with. I refuse to believe that this was some. Something between you and your dad or how in the world.

No, that was a gift from the universe. And like, when the radio DJs ask where that song came from, I say, I dreamt the entire song. And then I got woken up from a dream. My cat knocked a plant off the shelf or something woke me up. Five in the morning. When you woken out of a dream and sometimes you really remember it, I'm like, whoa, this is a weird dream. And so I joke. I say I think I was visited by the great cosmic cow herself. And I say that as a joke, but I actually mean it. I think I was. I think it's. I was visited by something. What a weird and crazy idea. And rushed out into the parking lot. I was visiting my girlfriend at the time, and I just started scribbling down notes. And it was a much longer song. It's already a very long song, but it's much longer song. And there were. The dream had specific battles. This didn't make it in the song, but the cows were fighting the u. S. Marines in Omaha for some reason. There were. It was like a military history. It was the weirdest thing. And I'm writing it down. I'm working on it. I'm Working on for a couple hours out there. Then I don't know, 7:30, I got woken up at 5 and 7:30 my girlfriend comes on out and that was the day I was going to meet her parents for the first time. And she said, what are you doing? I said, I got a new song I'm working on. And she goes, oh cool, maybe you can play it for mom and dad tonight. And she says, let me hear it. And I played a bit for her and she goes, maybe not. She was smart.

Oh, she was. Probably just meaning she wanted you to smooth out the rougher edges. It was a new song or something. I'm sure she didn't wholly reject it.

No, I think she knew that was a poor choice. I think she was correct.

Well, what say you, you play that song once more and let everybody know that doesn't know what the heck we're talking about here.

This is called Cows with Guns. And I'll let the the meaning of the song belong to you. You can you tell me. You can put it in Jack's ch. Fat and docile Big and dumb they look so stupid they aren't much fun Cows aren't fun they eat to grow, grow to die, die to be at the hamburger fry Cows well done. Nobody thunk it, Nobody knew no one imagined the great cow guru Cows are one he hid in the forest Read books with great zeal he loved Che Guevara A revolutionary veal cow say tongue he spoke about justice but nobody stirred he felt like an outcast Alone in the herd A cow doll drum he moved we must fight, escape or we'll die. Cows gathered around cause the stakes were so high Bad cow pun. But then he was captured Stuffed in into a crate Loaded onto a truck where he rode to his fate and cows are bummed. He was a scrawny calf who looked rather woozy no one suspected he was packing an Uzi Cows with guns they came with a needle to stick in his thigh he kicked for the groin he pissed in their eye Cow well.

[Unknown Speaker]

Hung.

[Dana Lyons]

Knocked over a tractor and ran for the door 6 gallons of gas flowed out on the floor A run cows, run. He picked up a bullhorn and jumped up on the hay we are free roving bovines we run free today we will fight for bovine freedom and hold our large heads high.

[Unknown Speaker]

We will run free with the buffalo or die.

[Dana Lyons]

Cows with guns they crashed the gate in a great stampede Tipped over a milk truck torched all the feed cows have fun. 60 police cars were piled in a heap covered in Cow pies covered up deep much cow dung. Black smoke rising, darkening the day 12 burning McDonald's have it your way.

[Unknown Speaker]

We will fight for bovine freedom and.

[Dana Lyons]

Hold our large heads high we will.

[Unknown Speaker]

Run free with the buffalo or doc.

[Dana Lyons]

Cows with guns. The president said enough is enough. These uppity cattle. It's time to get tough. Cow dung flung the newspapers gloated. Folks sighed with relief. Tomorrow at noon they would have all be ground beef Cows on buns. The cows were surrounded. They waited and prayed. They mooed their last moo. They chewed their last hay. Cows outgunned. The order was given to turn cows to whoppers, enforced by the mite of 10,000 coppers. But on the horizon surrounding the shoppers came the deafening roar of chickens in choppers. We will fight for the bovine freedom and hold our large hands high we.

[Unknown Speaker]

Will run free with the buff a bow or die.

[Dana Lyons]

Cows with guns.

Oh, I don't know if it ever does for you. You've had to play that song quite a few times, but it just never, ever gets old. And I've never found anyone who's. Oh, no. Cows with guns. Everybody's always just, yes.

It doesn't get old for me either, because the song is so long, I. Sometimes I forget certain jokes. I might be seeing them going, oh, that's pretty funny. It's silly. I have to really pay attention because it's easy to lose my place. And so there's been more than a few shows where I've had to ask the audience, what's the next line?

Yeah. Yeah. Is it cow dung flung or. Yeah. I wondered often about how you remember that. I don't, but then I remember that you've played it a trillion times. That helps.

I have to rehearse it. And even that. It's. You never know till I get up there because if I'm distracted for a second, I could. Oh, no.

Well, I am sure that levity was achieved on our show. That. And we're going to project it out there and hopefully people listening will spread it around. Not like dung, but spread it around in whatever way that you feel sharing is appropriate. What's coming up for you? What's. What's going on in 2025? What are you getting ready for? Can people see you at shows? What's going on?

Yes, I'm. I got a whole bunch of shows I'll be playing in Western Washington, British Columbia, this summer. I'm still mostly playing outdoors, and so I have a bunch of shows there, and they're. I'LL be probably adding shows and But I think one of the things I appreciate with your choosing the theme of recharge and reset and have fun for this talk is it's reminded me that I should just leave a lot of space in this tour for having fun. And it's time to come up with crazy ideas for the show. So that's something I'll be experimenting with. I know I had, I did, I don't know, I did a whole bunch of shows at the beginning, early in the pandemic, and I really enjoyed them then, so I'm hoping I'll enjoy them again. And I'm releasing probably three or four new music videos this year and something that's fun. Speaking of the wildlands, I'm working a turtle, but I'm working with her and some other folks on a song for reintroducing jaguars in Arizona, New Mexico. So I'll be working on that on this tour, hoping to go visit Oak Flat and where the it's threatened with a copper mine. I'm going to be stopping in, visiting some friends and do some camping and probably watching some birds. And so that's it's a big year.

Would you say that cowswithguns.com is a good place to keep up with you?

That is the real site. That's Dana Lyons.com goes to cowswithguns.com and on YouTube I have a site where you can see my videos on my site or on YouTube or figuring all that out. But yes, cowswithguns.com is where I announce where my shows are and you can see the music video videos and I put up my blogs when I'm organized.

Dana, I think we're going to need to have you as a regular if you'll have us, because I don't think people are going to be satisfied with you just popping in and then going on this big tour and never coming back.

I'd love to, Jack. And if you promise just to remind me every show that I need to take more time off.

Yeah. Thank you, Dana. This has been such a It's just good always to catch up with you. But this has been special. Thanks for taking so much time, even through all the technical difficulties, because I know you didn't have this much time scheduled for the show. You're very generous with your time. Thank you.

All right. Thanks, Jock. It's been a pleasure.

[Jack Humphrey]

Thanks for listening to the Rewilding Earth podcast. We do what we do because of you. This podcast is supported by listeners like you who long to live in a wilder world. Please consider [e-mail] and subscribe to our weekly News and Article Digest while you're there to go the extra mile, you can follow and share Rewilding Earth on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Bonus points for sharing this podcast with your friends. To listen to past episodes, go to rewilding.org pod that's rewilding.org pod.