Rewilding Earth Podcast – Episode 163 Summary

Guest: Dr. Steve Carver (University of Leeds; Co-chair, IUCN Rewilding Thematic Group)
Host: Jack Humphrey
Date: December 12, 2025
Theme: The challenges of implementing rewilding goals across fragmented geographic, cultural, and political landscapes.

Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into the complexities of defining, guiding, and implementing rewilding projects globally, especially in landscapes divided by political boundaries, diverse cultures, and varying land uses. Dr. Steve Carver, a pivotal figure in the development of international rewilding guidelines, explains the nuances of the term "rewilding," the rationale behind developing global guiding principles, and the major obstacles to achieving meaningful and large-scale ecological restoration.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Defining Rewilding: “Nature-led, Human-enabled”

• Distinguishing Ecological Restoration from Rewilding
  • Ecological restoration: “Human led, nature enabled”—humans drive the process, aiming for a specific outcome (e.g., restoring coral reefs or rivers).
  • Rewilding: “Nature led, human enabled”—nature is allowed to determine its own ecological path, with humans giving space and time for that to happen. The process is open-ended, not outcome-fixated.
    • Quote:

      "Rewilding flips that on its head and we say that rewilding is nature led, human enabled. So it's nature determining its own ecological trajectory and it's us having the humility and the foresight to actually give it the space and indeed the time to allow it to do that."
      — Steve Carver (00:04, reiterated at 21:34)

2. The Need for Global Guidelines

• Context of Guidelines Development
  • The IUCN requested a unifying definition and set of guiding principles for rewilding, given the “chaotic” diversity in approaches worldwide.
  • Previous definitions were often rooted in North American perspectives, but rewilding is “place-based and participatory,” needing adaptation across cultures and legal systems.
  • The guiding principles and guidelines grew out of extensive global consultation (>100 individuals/organizations), culminating in recent IUCN publication.
    • Quote:

      "It was a bit chaotic in terms of how then rewilding as a concept and an approach was then being applied in different situations globally."
      — Steve Carver (05:53)

3. Issues of Scale, Connectivity, and Coexistence

• Large vs. Small-scale Rewilding
  • True rewilding aspires to “large scale restoration through landscape scale planning.” Many efforts, especially in densely settled areas (e.g., UK), are small-scale—but transformative goals require thinking big.
    • Quote:

      "If you forget that, then you're somehow missing the point."
      — Steve Carver (06:58)

• Connectivity ("the Three Cs", now Four: Core, Corridors, Carnivores, Coexistence)
  • Ensuring ecological connectivity (corridors and “stepping stones”) is essential, especially in fragmented landscapes.
  • Coexistence with human communities is necessary, particularly where rewilding might compete with productive land uses.

4. The Challenges of Area-based Targets (“30 by 30”)

• Applying Global Conservation Targets

  • Targets like protecting/restoring 30% of land and water by 2030 are easy to implement in sparsely populated areas, but difficult in densely populated, heavily farmed regions.

  • Using different mapping approaches (continent, country, biome) shows biases: continent-wide mapping highlights uninhabited “rocks and ice,” while political boundaries fragment potential rewilding areas. Mapping by biome better captures diversity but adds complexity.

  • Quote:

    "A better approach would be to look at it in terms of biomes... But then you think, well, actually this is missing the point entirely."
    — Steve Carver (09:55, summarized from 08:21–13:31)

5. Realities and Limitations of Rewilding Efforts

• Socio-economic and Cultural Barriers
  • Productive lands are rarely available for rewilding—efforts focus on “marginal” land (low agricultural value), making projects fragmented and challenging connectivity.
• Terminology and Misuse
  • “Rewilding” has become a “plastic term,” often stretched to contexts (e.g., backyards, gut health) that dilute its ecological significance.
    • Quote:

      “If a thing be restoration or rewilding... applies to everything, then it also means nothing.”
      — Steve Carver quoting Tony Sinclair (25:28)

  • While small-scale “wild” patches are valuable for biodiversity, rewilding at its core is about scale, connectivity, and letting natural processes—not just isolated gestures.

6. Participatory Approach and Contextual Flexibility

• Local Applications and Limitations
  • While large-scale projects are ideal, many people ask about rewilding small parcels (e.g., inherited farmland, suburban lawns).
  • Dr. Carver explains these acts, while beneficial, don’t meet the true definition of rewilding but can serve as ecological “stepping stones” or support connectivity for migratory species, pollinators, and plant dispersal.

7. Socio-political Resistance: The Game Lobby Example

• Cultural Entrenchment and Obstacles
  • In the UK, traditional hunting interests often oppose rewilding, fearing loss of control and impact on game species management.
    • Memorable Data Point:

      "In the UK, the game industry releases 50-plus-million game birds a year into the English landscape... a biomass which is greater than all of the other breeding birds put together."
      — Steve Carver (34:04)

8. Reasons for Hope and Future Directions

• Shining Spots and Optimism

  • Notable UK projects include the return of apex avian predators (eagles, hawks) and mammalian carnivores (prospects for lynx reintroduction).

  • Despite setbacks and inertia at the policy level, he sees hope in grassroots and philanthropic projects—not just for their ecological impact, but as beacons of a more optimistic, proactive mode of conservation.

    • Quote:

      “Rewilding's a, you know, it's, it's a more optimistic view of nature conservation. And so, you know, I'll keep pushing at that bar, if you don't mind.”
      — Steve Carver (35:54)

• Role of Academic and Cartographic Work

  • Dr. Carver humbly describes his role as providing mapping and top-level guidance, but recognizes the importance of translating principles into practice at all scales.

    • Memorable Exchange:

      "All I've done is draw some maps and write some documents. It's the People who are then utilizing that information... those people who are, you know, kind of doing stuff on the ground."
      — Steve Carver (40:00)

      “You are probably... a storyteller, a quite good one. And we need people who can communicate these issues… as few as I think they are, I hope that they're growing and I hope they use you as an example.”
      — Jack Humphrey (41:06)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with timestamps)

• Defining Rewilding:

  • "Rewilding is nature led, human enabled. So it's nature determining its own ecological trajectory and it's us having the humility and the foresight to actually give it the space and indeed the time to allow it to do that."
    — Steve Carver (00:04, 21:34)

• On Global vs. Local Application:

  • “Rewilding is very much a place based and a participatory outlook on approaches to conservation. And I think that's what changes as you move it around the world.”
    — Steve Carver (04:54)

• On the Overuse of 'Rewilding':

  • "If a thing be restoration or rewilding... applies to everything, then it also means nothing."
    — Steve Carver quoting Tony Sinclair (25:28)

• On Mapping and the 30 by 30 Target:

  • “There’s very strong altitudinal and latitudinal bias to the top 30% in Europe, if you take Europe as a whole... all of the high altitude areas are nicely represented. So the Alps, the Pyrenees, the Carpathians, etc. As soon as you change that to country level... you see some very broken fragmented patterns..."
    — Steve Carver (13:31)

• Society and Cultural Resistance:

  • “They do not. Almost to a man, they do. And it's mostly men do not like rewilding because it's seen as a, A, you know, a force for relinquishing control over habitats and species which they will profess to be protecting.”
    — Steve Carver (33:07)

• On Optimism:

  • “…immensely proud to have been involved… all I’ve done is draw some maps and write some documents. It’s the people who are then utilizing that information…”
    — Steve Carver (40:00)

Key Timestamps

• [00:04] — Defining ecological restoration vs. rewilding
• [02:22] — Origins and internationalization of rewilding principles
• [06:58] — The necessity for scale in rewilding
• [08:21-10:56] — Challenges of implementing 30 by 30 targets in diverse landscapes
• [13:31] — Explaining mapping differences by continent, country, and biome
• [18:53] — Connectivity, coexistence, and fragmentation
• [21:34] — On whether rewilding applies to backyards, window boxes, etc.
• [25:28] — Dangers of the term’s over-extension
• [29:32] — Patchwork rewilding and the role of small-scale interventions
• [34:04] — Game bird release and its ecological impact
• [35:54] — UK’s rewilding bright spots and the possibility of lynx reintroduction
• [40:00] — Role of academics and the humility of contributing as a mapmaker and communicator

Final Thoughts

This episode is notable for its frank, nuanced discussion of rewilding's definitions, potential, and pitfalls. Dr. Carver balances humility about his own role with insistence on the need for clarity, scale, and connected strategy. He calls for a candid reckoning with the cultural and political complexities of global conservation, all while maintaining a thread of cautious optimism rooted in actionable progress and collaboration.

“Rewilding's a... more optimistic view of nature conservation. And so, you know, I'll keep pushing at that bar, if you don't mind.”
— Steve Carver (35:54)