Ashley Hollis on How to Win Big Brother

Summary

RHAP: We Know Big Brother - "Ashley Hollis on How to Win Big Brother" (July 2, 2026)

Main Theme & Purpose

In this preseason episode, host Darren Armstrong sits down with Ashley Hollis, winner of Big Brother 27, to deliver a comprehensive masterclass on "How to Win Big Brother." Ashley openly breaks down her decision-making, social strategies, jury management techniques, and lessons learned during her winning run. The episode dives deep into the nuances of playing from behind, making tough endgame decisions, dealing with paranoia, managing secrets, and navigating competition twists like the blockbuster. Through candid storytelling and practical advice—designed for future players and superfans alike—Ashley provides actionable insights on every aspect of the Big Brother experience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Ashley's Endgame Strategy – The Morgan vs. Vince Decision

• Cutting Morgan at Final 2:
  Ashley is immediately asked about her pivotal decision: betraying strong ally Morgan and taking Vince to the final.
• Preparation over Rashness:
  "When you make rash decisions in the game— and life even—often it doesn't really work out. You really need to think things through." – Ashley (04:59)
• Weighing All Scenarios:
  She mapped out every possible final scenario from as early as the final seven onwards, prepping arguments for and against each potential opponent.
• Reading Strengths & Weaknesses:
  Ashley recognized Morgan’s challenge prowess and aimed to tie Morgan’s game to Vince’s, exploiting perceptions that Vince “ran her game the first half.”
• Speech Prep Matters:
  "Prepare your speeches. Say it out loud as many times as you can." – Ashley (09:25)
• Jury Conversations:
  Before eviction, she’d ask outgoing players, “Who should I sit next to at the end?” to gauge jury preferences.
• Delicate Final Three Social Play:
  Kept Morgan feeling safe without ever promising to take her, ensuring that even as she backstabbed, her jury speech would be defensible.

Jury Management Insights

• Sending Allies to Jury with Talking Points:
  Ashley ensured her closest allies (like Will) left with instructions or positive perceptions to sway the jury house.
• Be Direct, If Appropriate:
  “What will it take for you to vote for me to win? Sometimes you just gotta straight up. You have nothing to lose.” – Ashley (11:34)

Lying and Secret-Keeping

• The Lawyer Secret:
  Hid her legal background as long as possible, but selectively told Will early to build trust—a calculated risk.
• Reputation Management:
  Built a blunt, honest image so that late-game deception would go undetected.
• Secrets as Social Currency:
  Held onto critical information, releasing it only when it could repair or cement trust.
• Strategic Disclosure:
  Only reveal a secret when it can be maximally leveraged and ensure your timeline is plausible to avoid suspicion.

Coping with Setbacks – Playing from the Pariah Position

• Early Game Setback ("Showergate"):
  On becoming a social outcast week one, Ashley analyzed who had power and infiltrated by observing night-time alliances and room traffic.
• Messy Play with a Purpose:
  Deliberately revealed alliance information to shake up solidified power structures, even at the cost of being seen as "messy."

Leveraging the Blockbuster Twist

• Blockbuster = Unpredictability:
  The new comp structure both hindered the power of HOH and forced more lies as allies could bounce back unexpectedly.
• Social Value as a "Number":
  Ashley survived by being viewed as an extra vote, even while excluded from core alliances.
• Targeting Dynamics:
  Made early moves to distance herself from other outcasts and stay on the right side of shifting alliances, especially during chaotic weeks.

Social and Emotional Strategies

• Personal Dynamics:
  Used empathy and emotional leverage with sensitive players, stood her ground with others, and adapted her approach to match each competitor's personality.
• Perception is Power:
  On playing “dumb” or less strategic than she was: "I am a studier because I’m a lawyer... I knew what are my strong points and what are my weaknesses... I wanted to lean on that in the game." – Ashley (49:28)
• Building (and Maintaining) Connections:
  Continued to work every room, never resting on early social bonds—calling out Zach as a player who failed after getting too comfortable.

Advice for Future Players

• Don’t Overplay or Underplay – Play Smart:
  Playing hard isn't about running deals, but about building genuine relationships and soaking up information.
• Adapt Constantly:
  Always be ready to pivot and never count yourself out, even in the direst positions.
• Social Currency in Early Game:
  “In that early stage of the game, your honesty, your word is currency.” – Ashley (60:55)
• Keep Your End Goal in Sight:
  Never lose sight of why you are there: to win, not to make friends.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Preparation Over Impulse:
  "When you make rash decisions in the game and life even, often it doesn't really work out... I really weighed pros and cons."
  – Ashley Hollis [04:59]
• Jury Management Tactic:
  “If you're listening to this, don't be afraid to ask the people, you know, who should I sit next to? Who do you see me winning next to? Because they're going home anyway.”
  – Ashley Hollis [09:25]
• Risks with Lying and Disclosure:
  “If people feel like you lied about something the whole way through, and they find out week five, six, and then on, then they don't trust you at all."
  – Ashley Hollis [21:47]
• Observational Social Strategy:
  “[I] would get up in the middle of the night and I would walk through and I was analyzing who is staying up late and still talking. And that was how I picked up Vince, Morgan and Zach immediately.”
  – Ashley Hollis [29:19]
• On Emotional Manipulation:
  “Sometimes you kind of got to use that emotional—I know it feels icky— but sometimes emotional manipulation on certain people is kind of the only way that you can go.”
  – Ashley Hollis [45:40]
• Knowing Your Purpose:
  “Are you there to make best friends?... Or you there to win $750,000 and you have to just stay in game mode.”
  – Ashley Hollis [51:20]
• On Early Game Setbacks:
  “Never count yourself out when your back is against the wall. Never count yourself out because you never know what last conversation, what last piece of information that you could tell to completely change someone's mind.”
  – Ashley Hollis [60:12]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Framing the Discussion: [02:24–03:56]
• The Decision to Cut Morgan & Endgame Strategy: [03:58–10:12]
• Jury Management and Social Moves: [10:12–15:56]
• Reading Players & Managing Final Weeks: [15:56–18:38]
• Secrets, Lying, and Trust: [18:38–26:26]
• Learning and Borrowing from Strong Players: [26:58–28:24]
• Pariah Position and Spying on Alliances: [28:24–34:10]
• Blockbuster Twist Strategies: [34:45–41:05]
• Navigating House Lies and Being a Sponge: [41:25–47:54]
• Maintaining Perceptions, Disguising Strength: [48:57–51:20]
• Final Advice & Closing Thoughts: [60:12–61:16]

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Takeaways for Future Players

• Always prepare for every scenario and have speeches ready for each possible endgame opponent.
• Talk to everyone, especially on their way out the door, to manage jury perception and collect valuable information.
• Secrets are a social currency—spend them wisely, at the right time, and never telegraph your thinking.
• Constantly observe, adapt, and “be a sponge”—never get comfortable or complacent.
• Know your real strengths and weaknesses; don’t show off, let people underestimate you.
• Stay focused on the goal: $750,000. Build relationships, but don’t let friendships override strategy.
• Never count yourself out, no matter how bad things look. It only takes one conversation, one comp, or one secret to flip the game.

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Ashley’s advice shines as a must-listen (or must-read) for anyone aspiring to enter the Big Brother house—or simply become a more strategic, observant, and empathic gamer in any competitive setting.

Transcript

[Ashley Hollis]

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[Darren Armstrong]

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[Darren Armstrong]

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[Ashley Hollis]

Hey, I'm doing great. Excited to be here. Reunited again.

[Darren Armstrong]

Yes, Ashley, the most recent winner of Big Brother 27 of. Of Big Brother, who she won Big Brother 20. So truly, I think, like, the most relevant person to hear from in terms of, like, what might come on Big Brother 28 and how to handle it. Ashley, how are you doing? How you've been?

[Ashley Hollis]

I'm doing amazing. I've been Doing so good. I'm so excited for this new season and to see somebody take my, you know, take my place, take that, take the thunder. It's only right to pass the torch.

[Darren Armstrong]

So, yes, there's a maybe, probably small chance, but there's a chance that the person who is going to take that crown is listening and or watching right now.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes, there is. There's a good chance, actually, because everybody knows Taryn. Duh. BB Reality TV legend.

[Darren Armstrong]

Yes. As I've explained to the various winners of the show, at this point last season, people came onto the show, they said, I asked ChatGPT how to win the game. And so now Instead of asking ChatGPT, we're asking actual winners of the show how to win. So that I guess when people ask ChatGPT, it'll just steal this and.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes. Steal our. Steal all the winners. Like, oh, hey, I mean, what better way to learn than from someone who actually did it?

[Darren Armstrong]

Right?

[Ashley Hollis]

So way better than Chad. Gpd.

[Darren Armstrong]

Exactly. Exactly. All right, Ashley, there's a few things that I want to talk to you specifically about. One is something that we haven't talked too much about with the previous winners, which is obviously, I think when people think of your win, one of the big things they think of is cutting Morgan at the end, taking, like, a lot of people felt like Morgan had all this momentum. You win that final competition and you make the tough choice to betray your ally, Morgan, and go to the end with Vince. This is something that, you know, a lot of players have faced in big brothers, like, take their ally or take the person that they think is maybe easier to be. And many of them don't make that choice. So talk to me about your decision to have, like, who to take to the end, why you made it, and, like, what the challenges are for. Something like that.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes. So I knew probably once we got to final five for sure, I knew I wanted to take Vince. I have strategically weighed all my options with all of the players left, even honestly, I would say even when we were at, like, 8, 7 and 8, I was weighing my options because you just never know who's going to make it and who's going to be there at the end. And I wanted to already strategize exactly who I would take, take in every single scenario. So I weighed my odds between, like, Ava and Morgan. If we were the final three, Ava and vets, you know, Vince and Morgan, like, every single pretty much way that could have happened. Once we were in that final seven, final eight, I knew exactly who I was going to do in every scenario. Because when you make rash decisions in the game and life even often it doesn't really work out. You really need to think things through. And so I really weighed pros and cons. And then not only did I weigh pros and cons, but I also weighed my what my strategic argument arguments would be versing each person what were the things that they had ahead of me like that made them better, that made them stronger, and what were some things that I could use that to minimize. So if I saw their strength, what was going to be my rebuttal? And the rebuttal specifically I didn't start thinking about until we were in final three because that actually takes a lot of time and energy to think about. Okay, how can I minimize each person's, you know, kind of what, what makes them to be a strong winner? Right. Because every single person in that final five, especially the final three, had a reason why they should win and why they played an amazing game and why they made it that far. And so when I came down to Vincent Morgan, for me, I knew that Morgan was super strong competitively. Like, she obviously won so many vetoes in a row. It was crazy. And so though she only won what to ho and one I threw to her, obviously, but she won like six veto. I don't even know how many vetoes she won in a row. She won that many vetoes in a row. And so I knew that people always think that competition wins are kind of, you know, what makes you a big brother winner. So I knew I was going to have those decks stack against me because at that point I only want one competition before we made it to the final, you know, three part hoh. So I knew that that was going to be something that really cut against me if I was sitting next to Morgan though, which I also prepared to because here's the thing, she had been winning. She had been winning all of the comps. I actually am not the biggest BB superfan. So I couldn't remember what the last competition was. So I was freaked out. I was like, it's going to be strength again, because every competition's been strength. So I was like, she's going to win. But I knew if it was mental, I was going to be able to take it because those are the comps I'm strong at. That's like the one veto I won was like strictly a mental composition. So I, you know, I prepared for both. And something for me that I prepared for is, okay, what are the things that she has over me. But also, what are her weaknesses? And on top of her weaknesses, what are things that are strong that I could try to make seem like weaknesses? And so I prepared every single thing, you know, for me, if I was versing Morgan, one thing would be the first half of her game was simply around that. Like, she made a lot of moves that had to do with Vince that Vince had in mind or to protect him. She almost used the veto on him that one week when Mickey went home. She really almost did that. And so I was going to, you know, try to tie her game to him so closely that people would try to think, you know, okay, maybe, maybe, you know, we have her a little bit wrong. Yes. The second half of the game, it was definitely opposite and it was, you know, her controlling ventures. HOH is a lot more. But everybody knew in the house. We all talked about it, especially once we got to, like, that final five. Me and Keanu talked to me and Ava talked. And it was very clear that everyone did think that Vince ran her game the first half. So I knew that if I could kind of remind people, like, okay, yeah, she's had a strong game. Like, it's something. Hey, it's a hail Mary, right? Like, you can't give up. And then I think another thing when you're thinking about the end is also prepare your speeches. Like, prepare it. Say it out loud as many times as you can. Because I think Vince, where he really grinned. I'm not going to lie. I know this might sound cocky, but I knew I was being Vince walking into that final two speech or not. I knew that I had just, like, had a way better social game and that people would value that more in the jury because I had talked to every single person. Okay. Once we made it to final five, I had talked actually, no final six or seven. I had talked to every single person and asked them, like, right before they were leaving, who should I sit next to at the end? And everybody said that. Everybody said vets. So I knew if I chose him, that was going to help me. So if you're listening to this, don't be afraid to ask the people, you know, who should I sit next to? Who do you see me winning next to? Because they're going home anyway. Okay. Honestly, what people don't see on big brother is we all talk before. I know the edits make it seem like, oh, my gosh, last minute, last minute. But we pretty much have in mind what we're doing, you know, before it happens. Now, there are some things like The Riley vote where there were some people who were kind of swaying which way. But that was pretty rare. Yeah, that's pretty. Was the only time I would say that that happened.

[Darren Armstrong]

Although more common now that the blockbuster exists, things, plans do change last minute more often now than they used to. For sure.

[Ashley Hollis]

For sure. But I would say once we got to the jury phase and the blockbuster ended. So when was that Final six or final was in blockbuster?

[Darren Armstrong]

I remember going on a little too long.

[Ashley Hollis]

It was. It did. I think it was final five. So around final five block, when blockbuster ended, like, we knew we were sending Keanu home. Vince knew he was sending Ava home. These are things that we already knew. So don't be afraid to go ask them, like, hey, who should I sit next to now? Don't ask it straight up. Have like a 30 minute combo first, you know, to make them feel comfortable and to make them feel safe and like, that they can open up to you and then see how they're feeling. And if you don't want to ask, ask that straight up. Be like, who would you want to sit next to? You know, because that's also reverse psychology. Okay.

[Darren Armstrong]

Yeah. And the thing I like about that too is that, and you're right, it depends on kind of your relationship with them because, like, if you're the one sending them home, like, they're probably not going to be interested in that conversation. But if they're open to it and they give you a name like that and then you end up in the end with that person, it kind of. They kind of might feel like they were a part of it. Like, I gave her that advice and she listened and then she made it happen. And those are all very good things to sort of connect the dots with.

[Ashley Hollis]

Absolutely. And that's something I don't know if people, if you watch my season at the final, Keanu was. He mentioned something he didn't mention, like, obviously our full conversation. But he did mention, I think when Julie was asking them questions, he was like, I told her she needed to make a big move, like for her to get my vote and she made a big move. Or maybe that's what he said when he casted the vote. I don't remember. But he said that somewhere in the finale and that was part of our conversation. Right. Like, what will it take for you to vote for me to win? Sometimes you just got to straight up. You have nothing to lose. Especially if they're in a position where it's not a blind side. Now, if it's a blind side you obviously can't do that. But for us and BB27, none of the final five or six, you know, we're. We're blindside.

[Darren Armstrong]

So, yeah, take it. Take advantage of those moments. I talk a lot about this as well, and you. You did this very well, especially with Will, who is, like, an ally of yours. You were able to kind of, like, send Will to the jury house with some specific instructions as well.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes.

[Darren Armstrong]

This is something that Dan Geesling did with Keisha very effectively. He talked about how he needed to get to the end with Memphis. Right. And she agreed. Memphis over. Jerry gave her talking points. It's something Nicole did with Corey and big brother 18 before he left. If you have that ally who is really loyal to you and they're going home and it's not your fault, or at least you've been able to convince them it's not your fault, then, like, that's. That can be really, really incredibly valuable to be able to, like, at the very least, like, send them in and work for you, but also, like to. To know what they might be arguing so that you can kind of corroborate that with your.

[Ashley Hollis]

Absolutely.

[Darren Armstrong]

And other things.

[Ashley Hollis]

Absolutely. And that actually brings me to another thing that I did when we were in the final three. I made Morgan feel so safe. Like, I. But I never specifically ever said I was taking her. You have to be really careful about lying to people at that delicate point at the very end, because at the end of the day, they could be the make or break vote that you need. So I would really advise people to handle that very delicately. Now, obviously, I ended up being 6 to 1, and she didn't vote for me anyway, and I didn't need her vote to win. But it's not like I knew exactly how that was going to play out. And so for me, it was really important that I could keep up kind of my strong points that were going to be in my final speech, which. That I stayed loyal to the people that I was loyal to. You know, I didn't tell any crazy, outlandish lies outside of when I actually had to, especially to the people that I was loyal to. And I was able to counter that, you know, the person sitting next to me, he's lied unnecessarily. You know, so it's. It's also staying true to the points that, you know that you're going to make in your final speech. Don't just veer off from that at the very end, because you just never know how the jury is feeling. You're not in that jury house. So I never blatantly told her that I was going to take her but I never didn't tell her I was going to take her either. I just every time that we talked about the final two, I spend it and was like anytime she would try to ask me I'd be like, you know, I'm not going to make that decision anyway. You've been winning all the competitions. Like girl, it's obviously it's your game. Like you're the one who's going to have to make the decision. And I'm the right person because I know I'm getting sick. You know, making that person feel very comfortable can also make them under prepare. And from what I heard from the live feeds, like Morgan's speech wasn't going to be super, super. She hadn't had like a full speech prepared.

[Darren Armstrong]

And so I think were too they were arguing so much like they didn't have a lot of time. Yeah.

[Ashley Hollis]

No. And so I think it's like, okay, she fel super comfortable and safe for the most part that she was going to be the one making that final decision. And so I would like to say from what I've seen on live feeds and like people saying things she under prepared, she didn't prepare enough because she thought that that was going to be it. And you know what, she had every reason to she had been winning, she was a strong competitor, all the things. Right. But don't get too cocky at the end. Like don't get too cocky at the end. We saw it with Monty, right. He easily could have won the entire game his season but he chose, he got cocky. He didn't think through all of the clear options between the number two and number three and he chose the wrong person at the end. And that is a game time decision. And that's what goes back to me saying in the beginning of this video. Do not make the game time decision without weighing every single possibility.

[Darren Armstrong]

Yeah. I mean it goes back to just make sure you choose the right person to bring with you and at the end of the day it's going to be tough. I've talked about this with a couple of other winners. Like, you know, somebody goes to the jury house on day 40 something and then they vote on day like 90 something and it's like you don't they could be different, a different person by then with completely different relationships and different thoughts on the game. And so you never really know for sure but you should always I think lean toward like who is the most Impressive person. What would be the more impressive thing to do?

[Ashley Hollis]

Absolutely.

[Darren Armstrong]

You know, Monty was maybe a little bit tough there, because I think he was trying to do that, but he just completely misread the situation. Underestimated Taylor.

[Ashley Hollis]

Underestimated.

[Darren Armstrong]

Overestimated Turner.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes.

[Darren Armstrong]

And so, you know, you just have to be. And there, you know, there's a world where, oh, what if people ended up really respecting Vince and not being as respected Morgan, like, could have happened.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yeah.

[Darren Armstrong]

You were able to read that, right? You were able to read that, like, no. People are pretty pissed at Vince, actually, and I don't think they're gonna come around on it for sure.

[Ashley Hollis]

And I was also banking on. Even if that came around because I was like, as much as Rachel and I were very, very close, I was still like, I know she respects, like, a good game, and I also know that she respects competition wins. And I knew, yes, I won the last two, but I hadn't won very many, obviously, in between that. So I wasn't 100% sure where her vote was going to lie fully, actually. Which, despite what people may think, I actually. Her vote I was really unsure about. I knew I had Wills, I knew I had Ava, I knew I had Keanu's, but I wasn't sure about Rachel's 100% because she's a BB legend. And Vince did win a lot of competition. So I was prepared. Okay, say all is forgiven. He gets Lauren's vote, he gets Kelly's vote, and he just needs, like, Rachel or one other person my way. I already have prepared. Okay. Vince, Morgan ran your whole game. Like, Morgan ran the whole end of the game. You know, she controlled whether people should have gone up. You should have put me up that week. But you put Lauren up, your own closest ally. That makes no sense. So my point was that I was just going to, you know, counteract all of his in game moves and, you know, try to make it seem like he didn't really play the game that he should have played. He played Morgan's game.

[Darren Armstrong]

Right.

[Ashley Hollis]

And you kind of just have to toss everything out there that you can. Obviously, I went over on all my speeches. I talked for way more, but it's way to, like, you know, what did they say? Better safe than sorry. Like, throw it all out there, you have nothing to lose at $750,000. And that's just that.

[Darren Armstrong]

Yeah. And part of the reason why you knew exactly how people felt about Vince is because you talked to them about how they were feeling about people and what they were likely to vote so all very important stuff for jury management. Something else that you did, of course, was you hid the fact that you were a lawyer. And it's funny, because Xavier did the same. And when I talked to Xavier, he was like, never, never give up your secret. Why? Why would you ever do that?

[Ashley Hollis]

Yeah.

[Darren Armstrong]

And you didn't really, but you did end up using it in specific ways. So talk to me about, like, how you made that decision eventually.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes. So with Will, it was that I wanted him to feel safe. He was feeling really on the outs. He was feeling like he wanted to go home. And I don't know, for whatever reason, in my brain, I was like, you know, what if I tell him, like, a big secret that only he knows? Maybe he'll feel closer to me and closer to me than Mickey. Because at the time that I told Will, he was very close with Mickey, like, almost closer to Mickey than me. And I did not like that, obviously. Like, I was very close with Mickey, but I was. I wanted to be closer with Will than Mickey. And so I ended up telling him pretty early on, maybe like, week three or four, I don't really remember, but earlier on than not. And he was the only one I told. And I was just banking that he was gonna hold that secret to the grave. And then, you know, at the final hour, I was like, you know what? This is something that I need to make sure is plotted perfectly in the jury, because I don't want anybody to know now. I want it to be like a bang surprise. Oh, yeah, you thought I wasn't playing the game. I was playing it the whole time. Like, I was playing you. And I wanted it to be kind of like a boom situation. Now, obviously, I didn't realize he stole my thunder a little bit by telling people very early on.

[Darren Armstrong]

You did tell him not to. To be fair, I told him not to.

[Ashley Hollis]

But I think it, you know, I think it was fine because it worked out. Yeah. Yeah. Let it cook on them and let them think, you know, during that time in jury, especially when everybody came back.

[Darren Armstrong]

And I think. I think your point stands in that, like, you know, it was. You were in this position, I think, where, like, it, for instance, Xavier was never really in a position where he needed to throw out secrets to bond with people, because he already had so many people that he was. That he had. And, like, sort of throwing out a secret out of nowhere wouldn't have done much for him. You had to take, I think, a little bit of a riskier position of, like. Like, I really. I think I can trust Will with this secret. I think if I give it to him, it'll win him over, and that'll be valuable to me. And if it comes back to bite me, at least I got something in the short term. And so, you know, like I've been saying through all of this, I think this all comes down to just, like, what is your position in the game? You can take all of this advice, you can take all of these examples, but at the end of the day, you just have to, like, be. You have to be able to assess where you are and what makes sense for you to do in that moment. Because different positions are going to require different solutions.

[Ashley Hollis]

Absolutely. I think if I didn't already feel like he was someone that I could trust and he hadn't shown me that prior through other, smaller actions, I would not have done it. As everybody saw, I didn't tell anybody else literally the entire game, because information like that can blow up your game. Okay? It's like a make it or break it situation. Because if people feel like you lied about something the whole way through, you know, and they find out week five, six, and then on, then they don't trust you at all. And there's really no buying that back. And so I knew that early on I wanted to be building trust with people so that later on, if I'm not telling the truth, nobody would think that. And I think that's something that my plan that worked out actually perfectly. Because at the end game, Vince and Morgan had known me as somebody who's very blunt and very straightforward. And so they took every single thing I said as word at the end of the game, and I was straight up lying. Okay, I was exaggerating. I was lying, lying. And then I saw back there repeating the exact thing I said, because when you build a reputation early on in the game, people are going to take that for what it is. People recognize patterns, and they're going to take it for word. And so my advice to people playing the game is your word is everything. In the beginning of the game, do not tell crazy, unnecessary lies early on because people will remember. But if you're someone that people just trust and you know, they know, okay, she's going to tell it like it is, and she's going to, you know, be very blunt and straightforward and a shoulder to lean on when you need a fib and you need to tell a little lie. They're not going to even. They're not even going to think, you know, and that's something that really, I think Bought me God bless Mickey, but bought me favor with her in the game. Is that that week that, you know, it was between me and her and, you know, her events going home, she truly believed everything that I said, that I would never turn against her, because honestly, until that week, I would have never turned against her. And I showed that through my actions that, like, okay, you know, when my back was against the wall, what was that? Week five going on week six. And I knew that she was really upset with me about the Jimmy situation. I, you know, drop. Okay, well, Zach. Zach was going to vote out Will. Right. I'd been holding that information, and so I use that to buy more trust and buy more favor. So I think it's also another advice I have that's huge in the game. Take secrets and don't go running back and telling other people until you figure out a way to strategically use it. And that's something I talked about in my final speech a lot because I think that's something that really helped me in the game. Had I told Mickey right away what happened with Zach, her being mad at Jimmy, I would have had nothing to buy back favor. Right. I already gave her that information, so now she's just pissed at me, and I can't buy back favor. You need to use secrets to buy back favor in that house because you just never know when your back is going to be against soul. And unfortunately for me, my back was against the wall more times than not the first half of the game, especially just because of how the first day went or the first night. You know, that shower gate, it really kind of had me start off kind of backpedaling and needing to forward pedal. Forward, pedal, forward pedal. Those first four weeks. And, yeah, I think it's strategically knowing when to tell, you know, tell secrets and even. What was that going to. Week eight, I did that with Ava up. I knew Mickey had told me in the shower. I don't know if they showed this, but she had told me that Ava was going to put me up on the block. Right now I'm in a situation. I'm against Mickey on the block. I don't know who's going to win the blockbuster. So now I need to submit that Ava's gonna vote to keep me. I felt that she was, but what. What can I do to make sure that she does not trust the person sitting next to me? Oh, you know what? I'm gonna go tell her that Mickey, you know, even though this happened five days ago, she doesn't need to know that Mickey told Me that you were going to put me up on the block. How else would I know that? Right? Because obviously she really was going to put me up on the block was a really good thing. And who else would? She knows Will wouldn't betray her. So it's using those moments as pivots to buy back trust with people and kind of submit your position in the game. Rather than, if I told her right away, what is that going to do? If I told her right when Mickey told me, she probably would have gone right to Mickey and been like, why did you do it at all? You know? And then now this secret backfired on me because now Mickey's not going to trust me. So I think that's really important in the game. Knowing when to share things, that's something that's really pivotal. And like, as you said, Xavier was like, king of doing that. He knew. Don't. I don't need to everybody trust me already. I don't need to be telling people my secrets.

[Darren Armstrong]

Something I want to emphasize as well that you, that you pointed out was like, that you didn't tell Ava when you learned it. And that's, I think, something important to emphasize because, like, if you do wait to share a secret, you have to either have a good reason why you didn't say it before or, like, mess up the timeline because it otherwise might seem transparent. If it's like, oh, well, this thing happened a week ago, why are you only telling me now? Oh, it's because I want something.

[Ashley Hollis]

Right? And that was something that bothered me and was one of the reasons that I started distrusting Mickey a little bit more, was that she ended up telling me that Morgan knew the secret about the power. Like, Morgan had known the whole time. I'm like, wait, you didn't tell me? And why am I just finding this out? So that was when I started realizing, oh, you're actually, as much as you talk about Morgan, you're actually closer with her in some capacity game wise, than me. Because you. You didn't tell me that information. You're telling me this now, two weeks, you know, weeks after it happened, you won this power. When was that? Week two. And now you're telling me, like, at the very end of week four, like, Morgan, Morgan knew this whole time. And so that was a little flub by her. Because it's like, now I know that you don't fully trust me because you waited all this time to tell me this big secret. So it's like that, that. Yeah, I think that's something you have to really watch. But Mickey, again, I stand firm. She was the best player the first five weeks of the game. She was the strongest player. She had the strongest game. She was someone I was able to analyze and kind of like, soak up, though, too. How are they playing the game and how can I play similar in some capacities and what things can I take from other people? And I think that's something that you should also analyze when you're in the game. Who are the strongest players? Why do they have power? And how can I emulate some of the things that they're doing to get my own power right? Like, how do I change my power position?

[Darren Armstrong]

It's a great point. Especially you mentioned shower gate. I think that this is potentially very valuable for anybody that, like, you don't always have a great start. Sometimes things happen and you end up a little bit of a pariah, and you have to. That. That's a very, very difficult position to work from. You know, Keanu never left that position the whole time he was there. He was able to win a bunch of competitions that helped him out.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes.

[Darren Armstrong]

You were not winning competitions. And I do think one of the ways that you survived that portion of the game was that you were able to identify a few key players that did hold some power and you were able to get in with them. So, like, ex. Like, what. What would you say to somebody that's. That has a terrible first impression? Everybody's like, oh, that person's weird. Like, why are they. Why do they shower so long? What do you do in that spot?

[Ashley Hollis]

So the first thing you do is sit back. So that was quite literally the opposite of my game plan. Coming in. Initially coming in, I thought right away I'd be forming alliances and I'd be finding a bunch of people to work with. Now I wouldn't be starting any of the alliances. That was something I knew I did not want to do, But I thought I would be connecting with people immediately, having all these alliances and being able to have all of my bases covered and kind of create this shell around me. And luckily, later in the game, I was able to do that. But the first few weeks, I was not. So it was really just sitting back and analyzing who has the power. Okay. If I see who's. And also that starts with figuring out who is talking to who. So I would walk around the house and, like, I don't even know if they showed this on live feeds or. I know they didn't show it on the show, but on live feeds, I would get up in the middle of the night and I would go to the bathroom and I would walk through and I was analyzing who is staying up late and still talking. And that was how I picked up Vince, Morgan and Zach immediately, very fast. Literally started week two, I figured out that those three were aligned and they were being secretive about it because they were not meeting until the middle of the night. It'd be like literally like 3am Late

[Darren Armstrong]

night conversations are huge. It's when most of the strategy, like serious strategy talk happens because. Because you're. It's more private. Which means, number one, try to stay up as late as possible. And number two, absolutely pay attention to who else is staying up late and, and don't believe a word of that. Them saying like, oh no, we're just hanging out.

[Ashley Hollis]

They said that? Absolutely, yeah, they said that. That was the first thing. Because Morgan, something about Morgan, she games 24 7, which is why we love Morgan. She's great to watch on TV because she's constantly gaming and she's great for live feeders. But because she's gaming, she was overplaying in the first few weeks. And that was where I was able to just get information on accident. Because at the second she saw me the next morning after she saw that I walked by and saw them talking. She immediately was like, oh my God. Yeah, I was up late talking to Vincent more. We just always talk. We just talk about, you know, life and like, things and like da, da, da. And she was starting to ramble. Red flag, antenna up. Because why are you feeling the need to explain to me what you were doing? Right. If you're not doing something that you're not supposed to, you know what I mean, that you're guilty of doing.

[Darren Armstrong]

When in anybody's life have you had a late night, like 3am Conversation that was totally casual and means nothing?

[Ashley Hollis]

Exactly, exactly. And like that happened. I think I caught them. I think I waited maybe like one day and then did it again where I got up at like 3 or something in the morning and I went to the bathroom because I'm going to pee. All I'm doing, I pee in the middle of the night. Like, duh. And I saw them again. And then after seeing them maybe like three days in a row at the same exact time, at the same exact spot in the wine room. And then during the day I'm analyzing who's going to the workout room, you know, who's going to the gym. Because people will slowly trickle into the gym because they don't want to make it seem like, everybody's going in at once. We have this big alliance meeting or, like, whatever. But if you just watch, okay, one person went up. Boom. Okay, they never came out. Clock in. Okay, 20 minutes. Oh, two more people went up there. Nobody came out. Clock it. And that's how I figured out that Mickey, Morgan, Vince, and Zach were all working together, because I was clocking when people were going in and out of rooms, and who was even coming out? Is anybody coming out? And so then I was like, I'm gonna use this to my advantage. I saw Vince, Morgan, and Zach at the middle of the night because I'm like, like, okay, hold on. During the day, they have meetings with the four of them, but at night, they don't include Mickey. Mickey, you're not really in with them the way you think you are because they're meeting in the middle of the night. And that's little information I was able to do. And now, yes. Was that risky and people were, like, confused why I was spilling the beans early on. I had nothing to lose. Is what people, like, don't realize who were, like, messy Ashley. Messy Ashley. Ashley. I'm like, no, I'm doing it on purpose because. Because there comes a point when your back is in the wall or against the wall, you have no choice but to be messy and hope that you can break some of these early alliances up. Because once people get too strong and they feel too comfortable with each other, they're never going to turn on each other, right? Not. Especially not in the beginning of the game, because numbers matter more than, you know, how you actually feel about people.

[Darren Armstrong]

It's a great point, and I think it's something that, like, before you can even get to any of the other advice, so many players get stuck in first gear, where it's just, like, you enter the game, you don't get invited into the big secret alliance. And there always is one.

[Ashley Hollis]

There always is one.

[Darren Armstrong]

And then you just kind of go, oh, I guess this is just how we're playing. And then you end up getting picked off. Or maybe you get lucky and you get carried a little bit. But, like, it is. It is. It's players like you. I like Cliff and Nicole in season 21. People that are just always going to be pecking away at the majority, trying to find a way to either break them up or find a way in somewhere. Like. Yeah, that's so key. Otherwise you get seasons like season 16 or whatever, where, like, that big alliance will just run dominate.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yep.

[Darren Armstrong]

Now Blockbuster does kind of shake things up a little.

[Ashley Hollis]

Bit.

[Darren Armstrong]

And I think it does help to some degree the. The underdog, because power is a little bit more. A little bit harder to wield in the game. So talk to me about the blockbuster, because there's not many winners have experience with the blockbuster.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yeah, the blockbuster is crazy. It ended up being very great towards the beginning of the game because it was great for, like, players like Amy because, you know, with that week one, had Zay won the blockbuster, you know, it would have been a total different week one. So I think it kind of helped that, oh, like, people are just going to dominate their way through the game and all the votes are going to go this way, and this is just how it's going to be because there were people that wanted Zay to stay, but if we knew if he didn't win, you know, this is the way the votes are going to go. I think it helped with, like, like forming a bigger alliances because it made people feel like, okay, well, we need the numbers. And I think that's what helped. Although Jimmy didn't trust me that much, he knew that I was working with people or, like, kind of friends with people that he did trust. And his head. I was a number. Like, he would always say, well, you're a number. Like, you're a number. And so even though we, me and Jimmy, obviously, we're great now. We're great friends. But, you know, those first few weeks, we, day one, we really vibed. I don't know if they showed that, like, we were very, very close. But things took a turn once you become the pariah of the house, people. People want to throw your name out because that means they're safe right there. They have one more day in the game. And so I think for me, the blockbuster kind of helped because people saw me as a vote. And so even though I wasn't in any of the alliances, people felt like, okay, I could vote with them. And so it was able to buy me a little more favor, especially, you know, that I was tying myself to players like Mickey and Morgan who did have the votes on their side. And I think thinking about, like, week three, or was that week four, week three, specifically, that was the. Who went home that week? Adrian. So the Adrian vote, I definitely started becoming more on the back burner in a good way, where the eyes weren't necessarily on me because I was able to be in with the stronger people who are controlling the votes, because that was the thing about Blockbuster. People were trying to find groups of numbers to kind of submit what they wanted, wanted to happen that week. And week three was one of those weeks where you know, I was able to be on the right side of the boat. And that's really mainly because of the blockbusters, right? Because like we didn't know who necessarily was going to go home. And because I was able to be on the right side of the boat, all the eyes ended up being on the people on the wrong side of the boat because they were like, okay, well they're, they're not on my side. So let's just, let's just target them. Like let's just get them out. So I think that kind of helped in a sense. But otherwise I'm not going to lie. Once we pass like week five, six, seven, it just got. The blockbuster just got to be a pain in the butt. You see that. And week what, nine, when I was on the block with Will and that just was just a terrible situation that wouldn't have happened if the blockbuster didn't exist. I wouldn't have even been on Lauren's initial block if the blockbuster wasn't a thing. But the blockbuster made people second guess who they were going to put up right away. It because they're like, someone can win the veto and then I'm gonna have to put another person up. And so then it might not even be worth it, you know. And that was something that played out during Lawrence Lawrence HOH that week, Week nine. She felt like I didn't want to put Keanu up right away because you know, if someone comes down, I'll have to put him up anyway. Right. Like that would never happen if there was no blockbuster. She most likely would have just put him up outright because she doesn't have to worry about all the blood on your hands. So I think it became made HOH actually become less powerful because it started being like, okay, now you're putting all these people on the block and you're getting all this blood on your hands that it's almost sometimes at some points it's not worth it to win.

[Darren Armstrong]

Well, here's the thing. I think it's, I think it's a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. I agree. The HOH is definitely less powerful. But I think what ended up happening, especially on your season is that because it was less powerful, a lot of the people who won it were so afraid that it was powerless that they gave up whatever power it actually had by nominating their allies. It's still an incredibly powerful position if you use it correctly. But if you're so scared of it that you Won't even touch it. Then it ends up being all downside and no upside. So, yeah.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yeah. So I would say, listen, I know they're going to bring it back. That's great. I think it'd be great if Blockbuster ends when Jury happens, though, I will

[Darren Armstrong]

say, because it needs to end a lot sooner.

[Ashley Hollis]

But, I mean, yeah, they. The numbers did well last season, so they'll probably just keep the format, you know, exactly the same, I would think. But, yeah, it just made it a little bit more unpredictable. Oh, here's the thing that it also did. You have to lie a lot more because of the blockbuster, because you don't know if that person is coming back. And so I started being very careful with my lies during the blockbuster. I only started lying once the numbers started dwindling down. But before that, I was actually used it as a way to buy trust and make it come across as I'm an honest person. Like, during Riley's eviction week, I straight up told Riley I wasn't going to keep him. Right. And Mickey didn't. Mickey said, I'm going to keep him. And then when Riley went home, now you have Catherine pissed because Catherine's still in the house. The other side is like, what? Like, what is going on? Why would you say that? So sometimes it can blow up in your face if you tell a bold place lie to someone who's aligned with someone closely and they stay in the game after Blockbuster.

[Darren Armstrong]

So I generally just kind of like, stay with the crowd because Mickey sort of like, went away from what everyone else was doing to say she would keep Riley. But then on the other side of it, Adrian, early in the game was like, the one person that was like, no, I'm actually going to tell the truth. And that cost him. So, like, in general, just whatever the house is doing.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yeah.

[Darren Armstrong]

Don't. You don't have to do it with them. But, like, if everyone's lying to, you know.

[Ashley Hollis]

Right.

[Darren Armstrong]

Then be a part of the people lying to Riley.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yeah.

[Darren Armstrong]

Don't be, like, the one person that thinks you can stick your head above water because you know you're probably gonna get caught. But again, there's a.

[Ashley Hollis]

You're gonna get caught. I had to do that with week. I don't remember which week. The week Zach went home. I had to do that with Keanu because I didn't want to tell Keanu was keeping him, But I found out that everybody was. Everybody. Every single person in the house told Keanu they were keeping him, even though they weren't. He was Keanu was going home had he not won that blockbuster. But I realized that that's what the herd is doing. So I'm like, I just have to tell him I'm going to keep him, even though I have no intentions. You know what I'm saying? I'm doing that. And I hated saying that, and I hated lying. It felt icky because they went to confirm like. Like every two hours. You're keeping me right, Keeping me right? And yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Terrence said, you got to just do what everybody else is doing. Because had I been the one person that said, I'm not keeping him, obviously we saw how that played out. Keanu won the blockbuster, and he stayed. I would have been his number one target. Like, I would have been his target. Same thing with Zay, week one. I have to lie to him and say, I'm keeping you, Zay. I'm not keeping Zay. Why would I keep say. But if they stays, he. He made it very clear. Anybody who told him that they're not keeping him, he was going to come after. And I don't want people that. I don't want that blood. I don't want that beef. Like, I don't need that. So, yeah, I think it's picking up on what other people are doing. And just being a sponge kind of like I said earlier early on, is, like, super important, because if you're a huge outlier, no, you're not going to make it far. Maybe somebody will carry you a little bit further, like you said. Maybe because you're a target, but you can only be a target for so long. I think Keanu's game is an outlier because you have to.

[Darren Armstrong]

You have to be able to win. You have to will if you want to play that kind of game. Which I think is another point to touch on here, which is that, like, a huge part of your ability to recover from the early stages of the game were that you didn't end up actually touching the block most weeks. And that, I think, comes largely down to, like, two major factors. One is, like, easier said than done. You won that veto in the first week. Week, which was incredibly important. It's so bad to be on the block first week, and winning your way off the block is such a recovery tool because it means you're not available to vote out, and people stop talking about you as though you're somebody that you're. They're going to vote out. And number two, for the following couple of weeks, people are like, do I want to play Ashley on the block if she's going to win her way off of it.

[Ashley Hollis]

Absolutely.

[Darren Armstrong]

And then number two, the additional layer of, like, disincentivizing people to do it is that, again, you made those relationships and there were people in the house, like Mickey or Rachel or whoever else that would have been, like, upset if you went up on the block.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes.

[Darren Armstrong]

And so that's like, you're gonna upset people, and she might win her way off, and also she will be upset. You. You made a huge deal about it to, you know, which. Which is always a tricky thing because it could backfire. Just make Vince want you out more. But because you won the veto, it worked out really well. They're like, oh, she's gonna be really upset if somebody puts her on the block, and she might win her way off the block. And so. And you see will do this as well in your season where he was being used as a pawn, eventually stands up for himself and says, no more of this. I'm so done with it. And then they stopped putting him up for a while.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yeah.

[Darren Armstrong]

Sometimes a backbone is necessary.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yeah. I think it's knowing when to stand your ground and knowing when to back down. I think I learned. Easier said than done. You learn it as you go in the game, obviously, like, how. How many. How much limits you can push with certain people. Like, Lauren was someone I knew. I could really. I hate to say this. Emotionally manipulate, because I knew she was a more caring, sensitive, sweet girl. Like, that's her nature. She's just such a kind person. And so unfortunately, that week when she was hoh, I had to really kind of put my foot down. Like, I will be mad at you, like, if you put me up. I'm not. You know, we're not working together, basically, essentially, like, I'm not. I'm gonna be very upset. And like you said, using other people that will be upset is huge, because then that leads that person to be kind of scared. Like, oh, my gosh, am I gonna have, you know, okay, if Ashley goes home? All these other people will be mad at me.

[Darren Armstrong]

You can always take it back, you know, like, yeah, I'll be so mad, and I won't work with you. And then afterward be like, like, you know what? I actually. It's kind of chill. Yeah, please.

[Ashley Hollis]

100. No, a hundred percent. Like, and I think that that's huge. I think also, like, kind of being, like, I wanted to work with you. Like, I'm very. I'm shocked. I would never put you up, but I would have never thought that Sometimes you kind of got to use that emotional. I know it feels icky, but sometimes emotional manipulation on certain people is kind of the only way that you can go. Sometimes you have people that, you know, you can't push too hard because it'll backfire. Like I. With. With Mickey. With. With. I mean, even like, Will. Like, I would never come at Will. Like, well, is not that kind of guy. He's going to stand his ground back, right? Like, so there's certain players. Rachel is another one, like, a very strong personality. You putting fire with someone like that is just going to make more fire. Right? You saw that happen with Rachel versus Mickey and Morgan. That is just going to explode the whole thing. So I think it's. Knowing people's personalities, really studying personalities early on, I think is huge. I'm not saying it should be a psychologist, but listen, you need pay attention to what people. How people are reacting to other people, too, when they're in conversations. Like, what are they saying to you? Kind of going to people. How did you feel about that? Right? Like, what did you think about that? And I was able to kind of pinpoint early on that Lauren wasn't someone who liked being talked at. She wanted more of a collaborative partnership. Like, obviously that different with Vince. Vince is like, the only person that she liked being, I would say, told more so what to do, but I would say with everybody else, she did not like when people were, like, very demanding to her. She wanted to feel like she was not necessarily, like, part of the plan, but kind of like you guys are bouncing ideas off of each other a little bit more. And she also wanted to feel like she was important. Like, she was important to them. Because I remember after week one, she was freaking out to me about the votes because she was like, Rachel. I think she told me. Rachel, you know, told me, this is what. You know, this is what I need to do. And, like, I don't know, that scared me. And so I picked up on those little things, like, okay, I. This is something she doesn't like with someone else. So I'm definitely not going to do that. I'm going to do the opposite, actually. I'm going to use reverse psychology and make her feel like she made this idea, you know, by herself. And sometimes those are kind of things you just have to pick up on, like, people's personalities, what they like, what they don't like.

[Darren Armstrong]

I think that's been probably the strongest undercurrent through every single one of these conversations I've had with. With. With you four Winners has been that all of you have said in one way or another, like, how important it is to talk to people, be social, learn as much as you can about them, about how they react to things, about what they care about. Because the more information you have, like, it's. Again, you can have as much advice on, like, what to maybe do in a certain spot, but none of it matters if you don't have the information to know how a person will actually react to it and who you're actually dealing with, what the pieces on the board actually do. And so, so that is truly, like, it's seemingly, I think the fundamentals of the game is you just have to get. Collect as much information as possible, which is part of what makes, I think, I think the final point we can talk about with you. I think one of the bigger ones is you are very good at maintaining certain perceptions of yourself, which can only really be done if you have a good understanding of what other people see in you.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes.

[Darren Armstrong]

While also helping kind of disguise what piece you are on the board. People think you're a pawn, but really you're a rook. Right. Or like, you know, or a queen, like. And so, you know, being able to sort of mask what you're really capable of is also pretty valuable, but it also all kind of stems from that understanding that you have of the people around you. So talk to me about how do you maintain a certain perception of yourself in the house?

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes. So I would say learn yourself before the game even starts if you don't know yourself, because some people don't know themselves. Some people know what they think of themselves, but they don't really know what other people think of them. And I am a studier because I'm a lawyer. So I definitely knew what are my strong points and what are my weaknesses. I'm someone who's very outgoing. I'm someone who's very bubbly. But I'm also someone, if you really talk to me, you start to realize that I am intelligent. Like, I. Obviously there's some, you know, there's some things moving there. But something I also know in my real life is that when I'm in social scenes that are outside of law and outside of what people know of me and like, I meet people or when I'm going on dates with people and people are getting to know me, something that, especially dating wise, something that people always said was like, oh, my God, I didn't know that you were so intelligent until they really got to know me. And so that's something that happens in my real life because I'm so bubbly, and I'm so, like. Like, hey, Sharon, how you doing? Like, so I come across this certain way until you get to know me, you speak to me, and you're like, okay. So I knew that that was going to be something that I wanted to lean on in the game. I never talked too much about my personal life, you know, the things I got going on, you know, all those different things that a lot of people are very open about. Like, week one, week two.

[Darren Armstrong]

Ashley. I think a lot of people really struggle with that. A lot of people go onto reality television. They say, you know, people don't usually know how smart I am, and they can't pass up an opportunity to prove it to people when they're talking to them. And so that restraint that you showed was really important.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes. I mean, there are times that people would even, like, say to my face basically that I'm, you know, I'm a little. You know, like, I remember I was talking to Kelly, and she was like, I mean, all you do is do what Rachel, like, tells you to do. Like, you don't really know what's going on in the game. And I was like, little do, you know, like, I knew you were going on the. You know what I mean? It's like. And I think that's the thing about a lot of people in life is that they want to show and tell. They want to do both. They want to come across a certain way. And, like, despite what people may think about me, I'm actually very humble. And I think I proved that throughout the game because people would talk down on me throughout the entire game, and I didn't feel the need to be like, well, actually, da, da, da, da. And I think that's huge. Sometimes people don't even realize that they do it. They do it in real life as well. Like, men do it a lot more than women, but no offense to men. Love you, men, but men do it a lot more. More than women. Obviously, they want to be showy, and they want to come across a certain way. I'm rich. I'm this, I'm that. And they. They do a lot of this. And so I knew that, okay, if someone's talking down on me and me and will even have this conversation, because he was like, I am so shocked. Like, how do you do it? Because he knew my secret right after, like, what, week four or five, and he saw the way people were talking to me, and he was like, oh, my gosh. If they Knew, like, he's like, oh, it's like hard for me to, like, keep this secret because I was fine with people thinking that, like, I did not care what other people thought about me because all I cared about was winning $750,000. Like, all these people are just puzzle pieces that I have to move, you know, to get to the end and to where I'm trying to go. And so I think you have to keep your mind focused on what is your purpose and what are you there for? Are you there to make best friends? Are you there to prove yourself to be X, Y and Z? The smartest, the richest, the this, the that, that, or you there to win $750,000 and you have to just stay in game mode. I never let a personal relationship cloud my judgment, and I think that's something that is super crucial in the game because otherwise you end up like a Mackenzie, right where they were like, oh, I just value this friendship. And she lost $750,000, you know, so I think you have to really keep your eye on the prize. I think I always also tried to see things from a neutral perspective. So I would evaluate every single week, like, okay, well, I. For this to happen. But what are the. What are the benefits to me if that doesn't happen, even though this is what I want? And I think that really became a crucial trait of mine when it was Mickey versus Morgan on the block was like, okay, I want to keep Mickey because I like Mickey Moore. Quite frankly, I like Mickey more than I like Morgan at that point. Especially, like, me and Morgan were not close until later in the game. And then we became very, very close. But those weeks we were not close. I didn't have a personal, strong relationship with Morgan. Mickey was like a sister to me. Me, I don't want to pick Mickey, but turn that humanization part off for a second and think about what is better for the game. What's going to get me closer to $750,000? This is big Brother, not friendship Brother, right? Like, if these people respect you, they will be friends with you after the show. I think that's what people have to remember. I think people are so worried about, like, what are they going to think after the show? And like, da da da da. It's like, that's not going to win you $750,000. It's not. Yeah, you, you know, you have to be level headed.

[Darren Armstrong]

I think there's two. Two really key points there. One is like, you know, there are obviously some feuds that happen outside of the house, that happened inside of the house. But for the most part, like a lot of really close friends were bitter enemies in the game. Like you can absolutely turn on people, betray people, make moves that don't. And it's, you all come out and you're all family because the rest of the world sucks. Yeah, they're all attack. So you know, don't, you don't have to worry too much about that. Of course there's a line, don't cross it. But, but then the other side of that too, that I, that you mentioned that I think is really important is that a lot of people often, I think really overestimate like, like if they think this is what's good for my game, they go, well, this is good for everybody's game then. And they argue it from that standpoint of like, you should really do this because of X, Y and Z. Or they'll make like a token attempt that's like, like, oh, you know, it's really good for me. It's also good for you because like, you know, then there's another target in the game and, and you don't, they don't stop. I think enough to think like, okay, let me genuinely imagine I am this person. What would be best for my game given my current understanding of where they are. And the more you can get into somebody else's head again, the more information you have, you can do that, the better case you're going to be able to make to them. And it shouldn't be focused on you, it shouldn't come from your perspective, it should come from errors because that's going to land a lot better.

[Ashley Hollis]

Absolutely. I 100% agree with everything you just said. And I think that's something you have to get a grip of though, very early in the game. So if you're listening to this podcast and you're going to be on Big Brother, you have to be thinking from that perspective. Day one, because the game moves so fast, I never would have thought I had an amazing day one. Like you guys don't get to see live feeds. I had a great day one, okay. I was making connection, connection, connection. It was going great for me, me. And then the shower thing happened at the very end of the night at like 5am the next day. And then my position completely changed in the game. And you cannot let blow ups or things like that get you off track in the game. And you're having your head in the game because I think a lot of people just kind of, they give up for a Period of time, and then they get back in the game. You see that happen all the time when someone, you know, maybe they didn't win the veto and they're like, I'm going home. And they kind of mope for two days, and then maybe the last two days before the eviction, they're like, da, da, da, da, da. You have to be like this every single second of the game because you never know if you're not doing this, somebody else is. And now you're way behind, and you never want to be behind on information on the way the game is moving. I mean, I think even when the Jimmy thing happened and, like, he was up on the block, it was like, okay, I wasn't fully tied in to this thing, and I don't think this is a good move. However, Jimmy ends up winning the blockbuster now, even though I know he probably was coming from me maybe before, he's definitely not going to be coming on me now. It's always kind of having thinking two steps ahead, but also dotting your T's and crossing your eyes. You need to have every single base covered. When you're in a game like this that moves so fast. And I think it's. Yeah, everything you said, you just nail Terrence.

[Darren Armstrong]

Yeah. I think people, you know, there's this concept of, like, playing too hard too early, that. That I often try to fight against because I think that these things get conflated where playing hard doesn't have to mean running around and making a bunch of deals with people. Playing hard can mean having good conversations with as many people as you can, building connections, gathering information, trying to figure out where the alliances are. You know, like, that's also playing hard. And if you're just, like, chilling by the pool and hanging out with your best friend, that's. That's where things are going to go poorly for you.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes.

[Darren Armstrong]

Play hard and play smart while you're playing hard.

[Ashley Hollis]

Absolutely. And I think that's something a player like Zach, he was someone. I would say Zach, Morgan and Mickey to me, have the strongest. And Vinnie, Vinnie, like, fourth. But like Zach, Mickey and Morgan to me had some of the stronger relationship building, you know, games and that first, you know, four weeks, in my opinion, because they were constantly building relationships with people. They constantly were talking to people. And I remember seeing, like, what Morgan did really well. She would pull well. This is what she did well and bad because some you could see her doing it right. So that's obviously not good. If everybody sees your game and sees what you're doing. But to me, it was also a big pro because she was able to connect with people by kind of like pulling them constantly. Like, she was doing that from literally day one. Like the day the pool opened up, the day two, she was on there. She was pulling people. And I think that's something she did really, really good. Her and Zach and Mickey did really well at that. But where Zach fell flat compared to Morgan and Mickey and why they were able to last so much longer is that he got comfortable. You can't build the social game and then get super comfortable and chill out and not be in every room and, like, stop now. Right. You got to keep moving forward. And I think that's how Mickey and Morgan were able to outplay Zach and outlast him was that they built those relationships, but then they kept going. They kept the hamster wheel going. Zach got really comfor comfortable, and he missed out on huge cues that he was going home. I mean, I even told him to his face, I think you're going home. And he didn't believe me.

[Darren Armstrong]

Yeah, every. Every connection is potentially valuable. Don't. Don't throw any away because you don't feel like it. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Ashley, parting thoughts. Any final. What. If you. One more thing to say. What would you tell somebody? They're, like, about to go into sequester or what do they need to know?

[Ashley Hollis]

We've. We've covered a lot, but I would just say never count yourself out when your back is against the wall. Never count yourself out because you never know what last conversation, what last piece of information that you could tell to completely change someone's mind. And I think a huge thing is, again, analyze, analyze. People listen more than you talk, especially towards the beginning of the. You know, your. Your honesty, your word is currency in that early stage of the game. So you should be listening, you should be talking, but you should definitely shouldn't be talking more than you're listening because that means you're giving too much information that somebody can use against you potentially. But, yeah, I would say think of ways early on that you can buy social currency in the game because that can outlast throughout the entirety of the game and end up being your biggest toolbox, you know, your tool and your tool, toolbox towards that second half of the game if you can make it. But, yeah, never lose sight of what you came there for.

[Darren Armstrong]

Yeah. All right. Well, Ashley, thank you so much for. For joining me and doing this. It's been very fun.

[Ashley Hollis]

Yes, I loved it.

[Darren Armstrong]

Where can people keep up with you?

[Ashley Hollis]

I am on Instagram. Ashley Hollis underscore. Ashley Y H O L I S Underscore. That's also my TikTok username. My YouTube is Ashley underscore Hollis, and I'm also on Twitter. But you know what? You don't need to follow me on there if you don't want. But that's Ashley Hollis underscore as well.

[Darren Armstrong]

All right, well, make sure you do all of those things, except for, I guess, maybe one of them. And in the meantime, you can check all of our coverage out. If you haven't listened to the other winners, make sure you do that. I will be live, of course, every morning throughout the season talking about things that are happening on the feeds. And, of course, I did write a book about the show behind the Mirror. It doesn't teach you how to win, but should at least give you some backstory on the history of the show so you can check that out as well. There you go. That's what we got. Thank you all so much for joining us and see all of you next time.