BB27 Ashley Hollis Deep Dive

Summary

RHAP: We Know Big Brother – BB27 Ashley Hollis Deep Dive

Date: October 5, 2025
Host: Taran Armstrong
Guest: Ashley Hollis, Winner of Big Brother 27

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Main Theme / Episode Overview

Taran Armstrong sits down with BB27 winner Ashley Hollis for a full-season, play-by-play “deep dive”—breaking down the unedited version of Ashley’s underdog journey, her relationships, key game decisions, misperceptions, and strategic pivots. Throughout the episode, Taran and Ashley fact-check the TV show’s edit against live feed reality, highlighting overlooked alliances, gameplay nuances, and emotional turning points that led to Ashley’s victory in one of the most chaotic, unconventional Big Brother seasons.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Preseason: Connections, Preparation, Mindset

• Relationship with BB alum Hannah Chada:
  • Lifelong friends; confidante in the last week before entering the house.
  • Hannah guided Ashley by asking questions that stoked her strategic thinking but never gave explicit advice ([03:15]).
• Ashley’s Secret:
  • Chose to keep her connection to Hannah a secret, only telling Rachel and Amy in-game, to remain untargeted ([05:30]).
• Pre-game Studying & Persona:
  • Watched multiple key seasons and studied “Legally Blonde” to channel Elle Woods. Created a character who seemed less threatening and played into others’ underestimation ([08:52]).
  • “When people think you're dumb, they think they can control or manipulate you, and they will accidentally mess up, f around and find out.” – Ashley ([10:04]).

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2. Early Game: Social Turbulence, Showergate, and Underdog Status

• Week 1 Bonds and the “Showergate” Incident:
  • Despite a strong social start and forming a trio with Amy and Rachel, Ashley became a scapegoat after the infamous, over-edited “Showergate.”
  • Catherine led the charge against her, which Ashley intuited in real time:
    • “Immediately I clocked it... you're trying to put me on blast.” ([19:19])
• Misleading TV Edit:
  • Show portrayed her as a pest; in reality, she was game-talking most of the time and not fixated on the shower ([25:36]).
  • “I’m not happy with that edit at all...it was hours apart...I talked to him in the morning and again at night.” – Ashley ([26:39])

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3. Navigating Week 1 Nominee Status

• First Nomination:
  • Despite social capital, the house found it easy to scapegoat Ashley.
• Power of Perception:
  • House-wide assumption that Ashley was the easy early target snowballed, forcing her to rely even more on subtle, indirect influence and observation.

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4. Strategic Reads & Relationship Management

• Consistently Strong Social Reads:
  • Early identification of which houseguests held real power: “Everyone thinks Jimmy’s running the game, but Morgan’s actually the person running the game” – Ashley ([31:41]).
  • Picked up on shifting core alliances and was often first to vocalize key power shifts.
• Maneuvering with Allies & Enemies:
  • Used reverse psychology to manipulate swing votes and built relationships even with those who targeted her; handled Lauren and Rachel (veteran) with initial skepticism.
• Blind Spots:
  • Ava and Zach remained blind spots for much of her mid-game despite strong reads elsewhere ([66:58]).

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5. Middle Game: Alliance Flux, Manipulating the Majority

• Melting Pot & Judges Alliances:
  • Instrumental in orchestrating the game-saving “judges” secret alliance, recognizing that the crumbling “heavy hitters” and “melting pot” left new openings ([158:21]).
• Vote Flips & Campaigns:
  • Mastered the art of subtle misinformation, indirect manipulation, and emotional influence.
  • Orchestrated/coordinated week-saving campaign blitzes and reverse-psychology pushes, particularly with Lauren as HOH ([84:43]).
• Iconic “Big Brother” Reverse Psychology:
  • “I wanted her to feel like she came up with that idea herself...the only way to do that is reverse psychology.” – Ashley on working Lauren ([47:47])
• Using Emotions as Strategy:
  • Willingly leaned into being perceived as “slightly annoying” or “weak” to deflect attention and set up late-game manipulation ([189:49]).

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6. Notable Conflict & Social Recovery

• Editing and Perception Manipulation:
  • Frequently called out the show’s preference for crafting “fun dunce edits” for week one women ([26:51]).
  • Used tears and emotional intelligence to convincingly lie about her accidental vote and to smooth over feuds ([135:03]).
• Recovering from Adversity:
  • Multiple weeks where Ashley should have been the simple “easy vote,” but survived and thrived by reading social cues, building one-on-one trust, and identifying when to appear vulnerable or truthful.
• Turning Enemies into Allies:
  • The motif of “turning enemies into allies” repeats throughout, culminating in her final speech ([252:44]).

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7. Endgame: Orchestrating Final Weeks & Jury Management

• Late-Stage Mastery:
  • Recognized critical endgame paths:
    • “If you get power and don't use it at final five after not winning anything, you kind of just have to go for it.” – Taran ([235:47])
• Manipulating Morgan’s Endgame Decisions:
  • Used her established “honest, blunt” reputation to plant the critical seed that Morgan would only win if she cut Vinnie and took Ashley to final 2 ([242:32]–[244:16]).
  • “The groundwork you laid all season long of saying it like it is, making accurate predictions”—Taran, explaining why her jury pitch worked ([244:16]).
• Strategic Sacrifice:
  • “If I win the veto, I have to use it... How do you justify to a jury you're able to make a power plan and you don't?” – Ashley ([236:13])
• Final Jury Perception:
  • “I turned my enemies into allies, and Vince turned his allies into enemies. That perfectly summed up your games.” – Taran, referencing Ashley’s final speech ([252:44])
• Underrepresented by TV Edit, Celebrated by Feeds:
  • Taran and Ashley repeatedly note how critical moments and nuances of her game were omitted on TV, but live feeders clocked her gameplay.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On being underestimated:

• “When people think you're dumb, they think they can control, manipulate you, and they will accidentally mess up f around and find out as that happened toward the end.” – Ashley ([10:04])

On week one bias:

• “They were like, all right, Ashley's our first boot. Let's do a fun dunce edit.” – Taran ([26:51])

On manipulating Lauren:

• “If I make it seem like... if I am not on that block, it's because of you. Truly... If I am not on the block tomorrow...I can directly relate that... thanks to me.” – Ashley ([85:52])

On weaponizing emotions:

• “If you're an actress, do Big Brother. You will do Silver. I can use this emotional thing... I'm going to use this sisterly, you know, thing between us and try to guilt trip her into it.” – Ashley (on mending things with Mickey) ([123:15])

On endgame manipulation:

• “I laid the groundwork for your manipulation of Morgan later on.” – Taran ([191:58])
• “I'm not going to stop. I'm pretty sure she's going to take me, but Vinnie's going to say everything he can to be taken to the end, and I'm going to make sure that doesn't happen because that is my spot.” – Ashley, camtalking about F3 with Morgan ([244:22])

On the edit gap:

• “This is how they could have shown me on the show, but yet they didn't. We're not even a professional editor and you figured out how to get my edit right!” – Ashley ([156:51])

On final speech & BB mantra:

• “My message is just to the underdogs. I feel like the whole season, everybody in the cast underestimating [me] besides Will...and maybe Rachel...” – Ashley ([253:55])

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Timestamps for Pivotal Segments

• [03:15] – Ashley discusses her secret connection to Hannah and pre-game prep.
• [10:04] – Discussing “playing dumb” as a strategy.
• [19:19 – 25:36] – Showergate, TV edit vs. reality (“they made me the scapegoat”).
• [31:41] – Early identification of Morgan’s social power.
• [47:47] – On using reverse psychology with Lauren and campaign strategy.
• [84:43] – Coordinated Operation: Save Ashley week 3 pitch to Lauren (decision flipping).
• [85:52] – Strategic leveraging of Vinnie’s influence over Lauren’s HOH.
• [123:15, 125:44] – Using emotional connection to convince Mickey she’s trustworthy.
• [158:21] – Realizing the value in keeping Morgan and orchestrating The Judges.
• [164:52] – The “toilet paper” blunder; Ashley’s germaphobe origin story.
• [189:49] – Embracing being “slightly annoying” to lower threat level.
• [191:58] – Laying the groundwork (“the manipulation of Morgan”).
• [244:22] – Final 3 manipulation, camtalk on post-veto plan.
• [252:44] – Taran recaps Ashley’s "enemies into allies" final speech.
• [253:55] – Ashley’s message to underdogs and lessons learned.

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Notable Game Facts & Corrections

• Ashley survived the block multiple times, often in spots where both house and audience assumed she was doomed.
• Had an impeccable read except for blind spots on Zach and Ava.
• Majority of Ashley’s social maneuvering, reads, and emotional manipulation (and their impact) went unrepresented in the televised edit, only surfacing via live feeds and this deep dive.
• Her Elle Woods, “acting dumb” persona was method acting, not naivety—she always knew what she was doing.
• Strategically weaponized tears, honesty, and “annoying” quirks to disarm competitors.
• Instrumental in flipping the Riley vote; created the Judges; shifted Morgan’s F2 away from Vince.
• Used “straight talk” and her reputation for authenticity as the clincher in winning Morgan's decision at final 3 over Vince.

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Tone and Style

• Warm, sharp, and analytical. Taran and Ashley both blend wit, humility, and strategic detail to illustrate the real game.
• Candid admissions (“If you’re an actress, do Big Brother. You will do Silver.”).
• Celebratory for superfan accomplishment but critical of production's storytelling.
• Undercurrents of underdog pride and live feed vindication running throughout.

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Where to Follow Ashley Hollis

• Instagram & TikTok: @AshleyHollis_
• Twitter: @AshleyHollis__
• BlueSky: [Check Ashley’s socials for link]

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Closing Thoughts

• Ashley is proud of her gameplay and hopes to return for a future all-winners season—with a better edit.
• Taran champions Ashley’s win as a rare, “most meaningful” kind: no showmances, few comp wins, and a story told almost entirely on the live feeds, not CBS.

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For more deep dives and live feed truth, subscribe to RHAP and follow Taran Armstrong’s new book, “Behind the Mirror: Inside the World of Big Brother.”

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

And welcome to the Big Brother 27 off season. I'm your host Taran Armstrong, here at RHAP, and I'm here today with the winner of Big 27 for her deep dive, it's Ashley. How you doing, Ashley?

[A]

Hi, Taryn. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

[B]

Very excited to have you. First of all, thank you. Because you were my first draft pick, first pick off the board in our draft.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Yay.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

That's so exciting. Congrats.

[B]

Yes. Taylor and I, you know, just great pickers.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And then secondarily, I'll. I will also congratulate you on your win of Big Brother 27. That was very impressive.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you so much. I mean, I can't believe it.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

I can't believe it. But, like, also can't believe it at the same time.

[B]

Yes. Well, thank you for agreeing to do the deep dive. I think a lot of people are excited about this because, in particular, Big Brother tends to not be the greatest at portraying games that don't involve competition, wins, or showmances. And so there's a lot, I think, that is left on the table when it comes to a general perception of your game from people that were not paying close attention to the feeds. So I'm very excited to go through it all with you. I'm sure there's a lot to get into, so I'm excited.

[A]

I'm excited, too. Let's go.

[B]

So just, I guess as a. As a small introduction to me, I do live feed updates every single day during the season. I'm an absolute crazy person. I have notes from every single day on the live feeds, and I've spent the last week gathering them all for this massive dump of, like, everything that happened in the season. So feel free to ask me questions along the way if there's anything that you're like, what was this person up to? Or, like, why did this person do something? I can try to guess. But if you're asking me why Keanu did something, we're gonna get.

[A]

Nobody understood that. Okay.

[B]

I will also say at the top of this podcast that I have actually also written a book about the show. It's called behind the Mirror Inside the World of Big Brother. Publishing soon, in just over a month now, in November, you can go to taronarmstrom.com if you want to pre order it. Now, a lot of people in that house could have used this book.

[A]

Definitely. Probably. I haven't even read it. And I just know. Yes.

[B]

All right, so, Ashley, first of all, we discovered you in the preseason. Of course, we saw your interviews. We learned quickly that you were a friend of one Hannah Chada, who is certainly beloved in these streets. Can you tell me what is your relationship with Hannah and what did you talk to her to prep? Did you ask her questions? What was going on in the preseason?

[A]

Yeah, so I've known Hannah since I was big. I mean, we've literally known each other pretty much our whole lives. Our parents are really good friends growing up, and so, yeah, we basically grew up together, literally. I mean, I'm telling you, like, my mom, she worked, you know, obviously like a 9 to 5, and my mom would literally drop me off in the morning at Hannah's house, and I would. Her. Hannah's nanny would literally watch us all before school when we were literally, like. I'm talking early elementary days, like kindergarten. So, yeah, I've known Hannah, like, quite literally almost my whole life. And, yeah, we've. We're still friends, obviously, in adulthood, clearly. We actually lived in D.C. together at the same time because she started Georgetown med school on when I was, like, my second or third year of law school at Georgetown. So we ended up obviously being very, very close quarters. I literally, like, threw her birthday party, like, two years ago at my apartment complex. Like, we're very. Yes. Like, we go. We go way, way, way back. And then as far as, like, big brother pries, I didn't end up telling Hannah because I was so scared of the NDA. I didn't end up telling Hannah until, like, the week before I left. And she was like, oh, my gosh. She had mixed feelings about me going on the show just because she obviously had a great experience, but there was also some, like, trauma there. You know, it's the house, you don't have a phone, and all the things, stalkers, all the. All the stuff. And she's like, you're so sweet. Like, I don't know. I feel like, you know, she just felt like maybe it wasn't going to be everything I envisioned it being. So we had a lot of combos like that. I obviously still decided to do the show. And she's so happy I did. She's so supportive. She's literally the best, sweetest girl ever. And she just started asking me really good questions, like, probably, like, three days before I left. She was like, what's your strategy like with this? Like, she's like, you need to start thinking about all this. Like, what are you going to say? Your job Is like, how are you going to. You know, you need to remember points about your job. She kind of just was kind of guiding me through things that I should be asking myself. She never told me, like, what to do, what strategy, anything. She really wanted me to, like, figure it out myself. But she definitely asked the questions that got my brain thinking, like, okay, these are the things you need to think about before you go in the house because you were going to be grilled on it. And, yeah, I obviously decided not to tell the other house guests. And besides Rachel, I did tell Rachel Riley, obviously, very, very early on, and I told Amy, but I kept it a secret the whole rest of the season. And I'm glad I did because that would have been even more. I would have had even more of a target on my back. And it was just funny. The house guests, like, week two or three, first they said I reminded them of Chelsea. Then people started saying Hannah Chada from cookout, and I was like, she's great. Oh, my God. Yeah. Kind of seem like Hannah. You know, I'm just playing it off. And it was just really funny and awkward because they would started talking about the cookout a lot and it's like, oh, the cookout. That's right. That alliance season.

[B]

Well, I especially love how you pulled it out in the end game when you're talking to Morgan and like, oh, yeah. Xavier cut Aza because he wasn't sure he could beat her. But they', friends, you know, it's totally chill.

[A]

I was planting every seed I could to make sure that I was going to be in those final two chairs even if I didn't win that comp because obviously at that point I hadn't won that many comps. The only comp I genuinely generally threw was the double eviction, which people already, I guess, were kind of onto that because I guess I. I didn't think I made it obvious, but I guess people saw me start to slow down and kind of look at Morgan. But that's the only cop I genuinely like completely through because I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm about to win. Oh, no.

[B]

Terrible.

[A]

Just because that was the week where, I mean, I definitely would have put up Lauren and Keanu, but I was looking around, I'm like, oh, my gosh. If either of them win the veto, I have to show my cards because the only left were Morgan, Vincent, Ava, and I wasn't ready to do that yet. And honestly, if I. If I was forced to do it and I like, obviously, if Lauren or someone else was going to win that double, I would have. I would have won the. You know what I'm saying? Like, if I looked around and saw that someone I didn't want to win was going to win, I would have just had to go for it. And my replacement, not definitely would have been Vinn, and he would have gone home, and I don't think I would have made it to the end of the game because Morgan would have won that. You know, she won that second to last hoh and I would have been on that block. So, yeah, it's just crazy how, like, small moves, like, you think you like. Oh, people, America, judges, they're like, oh, my gosh. What any cops. But it's like, people don't realize sometimes it's the strategic thing to do to, like, throw it to your allies every now and then. Now, granted, I really wanted to win Week 8, especially that HOH, the 1. Kiana 1. Because at the time, I wanted to be able to kind of, you know, run my own game. You know what I mean? Like, do my own thing and, like, make those big moves. It obviously didn't work out that way, but everything. We'll get into that later. But, yeah, I feel like everything plays out the way it's supposed to. And I'm religious, so I'm like. I genuinely feel like everything happened for a specific reason. To, like, get me to where I was.

[B]

Even the shower. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

We'll talk about it. Before we get into it, though, I want to. I want to ask you one final thing about the preseason. How much of the show had you seen before going into the show?

[A]

A lot. I had been watching the show. Granted, I haven't seen, like, every season since high school, but I've seen a lot of the seasons. Like, I've seen Jess and Cody season. I've seen Janelle season. Love Janelle season. Oh, my gosh. Season six. So good. I had seen Paul season, like, the friendship, obviously, the cookout season.

[B]

Duh. Both Friendship season.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Literally both of them. I'd seen at least like, seven seasons, but once I started realizing, because obviously we had, like, the LA audition, and I felt like, I'm gonna get this. And so once that happened, that was like, a few weeks before we got flown out to, like, leave for the show for real. And I just studied, like, literally every night I would turn on episodes and I would just study, like, Vanessa season, like, the season with Steve. I studied that just kind of started looking like, okay, what can my strategy be? And how do I differentiate myself from other people in the house. How do I, you know, become not a target? Which, obviously, the shower thing happened, and my whole strategy kind of got thrown out the window week one. But I still stuck to it, obviously, as you guys saw. But it obviously made it a little bit harder to maneuver because I really was like, I am not going to be a target. I'm going to not really lay low, but just truly rely on my social capital in the game and, like, building those relationships. I knew I didn't want to be seen as smart because. Because I saw every single season like, it happened to caser Kaser, showed how intelligent he was, and he got out early. And I was like, I put my job for this show. Ain't no way I'm getting out, you know what I'm saying? Like, early. And so, yeah, I definitely studied specifically those two seasons of the game, and I just kind of came up with this whole character that I wanted to build. I genuinely watched Legally Blonde six times. Like, I literally was like, I'm getting into my method acting back. I did acting, obviously, like, since I was little, so it was fun for me to play a character, and I studied that character down, and I realized when people think you're dumb, they think they can control, manipulate you, and they will accidentally mess up f around and find out as that happened towards the end of the game.

[B]

But I. I did watch Legally Blonde. I did a watch party in preparation for the sleep time. It was good.

[A]

Such a good movie.

[B]

And. And genuinely, I was like, oh, my God. This is actually.

[A]

No, literally, I think.

[B]

I think I might be one of the first people to ever watch that movie with you as the original and her as the one. Oh, she's like, Ashley.

[A]

But I absolutely love that. No, literally, I was, like, getting into the show. I definitely was into my acting. That's why people like you go on go back to law. And I'm like, I can always go back to law. Like, I've always loved act. Like, these are passions I've always had. I feel like there's some people that are gonna be like, oh, my. She's like, coming up, big brother. And thinking, like, no, I had these passions before. It was more like, now I have the financial stability to those passions. Like, that is the only difference between a year ago or, like, five years ago and now. And I definitely got into my acting. The whole show, Riley's hoh, everything. I was eating it up. I loved it. I loved every minute of it.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, so you go into the house, the the least amount of information I have is in the first five days because they didn't turn the live feeds on until day. So a lot of those initial sort of bonds I only have the episodes for. We do know that the heavy hitters were formed fairly early on, which was Jimmy, Morgan, Zach, Rachel, Vince, and Riley. And then Riley was pretty quickly kicked out of that alliance because he never showed up to the meetings.

[A]

That's actually hilarious. And I got a little glimpse of that by watching the episodes.

[B]

And of course, you ended up in this kind of trio with Amy and Rachel. How did this come about?

[A]

Okay, so it came about mostly from Amy. I did like Rachel, which she knows, but I liked Rachel, but I didn't fully trust her. And watching back, I'm like, dang. My intuition was really, really right. Because that was exactly why I felt like she pretended a lot, especially the first, like, two weeks of the game, that she wasn' connected and that she didn't know these things. But every now and then, she'd slip up because she'd be like, saying something about, like, how I'm potentially going on the block. Like, especially in those first five days, like, she was like, I mean, I don't know, but I've heard, you know, I've heard around the house, you know, you might be a block. And I'm thinking, but five minutes before, she's like, nobody talks to me. Nobody communicates with me. But then she mentioned the block thing and the shower thing. I'm like, well, if nobody communicates with you, how do you know that? So early on, I didn't trust Rachel actually, like, fully the first two weeks. It wasn't really until. Oh, you guys saw that. Okay, yeah, it wasn't until. But now that I'm watching it back, I'm like, oh, my gosh. I was right not to fully trust her because she absolutely was all around the house.

[B]

What I would say is, to be fair to her, she was way more loyal to you guys than she was to the heavy hitters. At any point, like, she got dragged into the heavy hitters, and she was like, I don't even like these people.

[A]

Yeah, I saw. I think I ended on that. She was like, I don't want to be. I want to go after these people. But it was funny because those moves is exactly why I was like, I don't know if I can trust Rachel because she was omitting information but then pretending like she didn't know anything. Like, it was like, that double whammy effect. But I obviously did, like, Rachel, like, on a personal level. And she was really close with Amy, and I trusted Amy 100%. Like, that was my girl. I just felt something with her, like I could trust her. And we connected very early on, as you saw, which I'm like, oh, no. I didn't know that was part of why she went on the block. But, yeah.

[B]

And, I mean, I think ultimately it's a good instinct to be skeptical of the veteran that comes in. Historically, vets in a cast of all new players have almost always made it to the end unless they get twist screwed. So that still holds. So. So, of course, we also have to talk about shower gates. Now, you were part of this initial group that competed for the first hoh. You, I believe, in the episode said that you threw this competition.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I am. I have largely been a component of winning. The first HOH is very beneficial to most players games, not for everyone, but it certainly helped. Vinnie, walk me through. Why did you want to throw this?

[A]

So I. Okay, to clarify, I wanted to throw it, but then I just. I. Sorry, my throat. My voice went out. I wanted to throw it, but then I decided not to, which I just. That competition would really be hard, but I decided not to because as I was looking around, I was like, the two I trusted was Jimmy and Adrian. Those are the only two people trusted. I had not talked to Vinnie one time, literally, before getting picked. So when I saw that he got picked, I was like, oh, no. Like, he's the one person I didn't obviously. Hilarious, ironic. The one person I didn't want to win one. But Jimmy and Adrian were adamant wanting to throw it to me, which I guess there are no live feeds on. But it was Jimmy's idea. Jimmy was like, you should be the hoh. I trust you the most. I think it'd be great. I don't want to be the hoh. Like, he was basically saying that to me. And then he pulled Adrian to the storage room and then got Adrian on. And Adrian was both, like. They were both like, yeah, we want it to be you because we both trust you. And, like, we don't want to be the hoh. I'm like, I didn't know if I wanted to be at that point because I had remembered watching a few seasons where they were kind of targeted early on. But I guess also hindsight's 20 20, because some of those people who were targeted early on were people who had really dominant personalities and kind of, like, were more controlling, and that's kind of what got them out.

[B]

Instead, big topic in the community nowadays after the likes of, you know, Frenchie and Angela and Daniel Durst. However, a lot of winners, including Rachel herself, were the first HOH.

[A]

Yes. And so I was kind of like 50, 50. And I don't know if they show this. It happened so fast. Like, I'm telling you, we have probably like, five minutes before getting picked for HOH and then going to play. So I was like. I didn't even have time to, like, really fully think about it, but I knew I felt really good with Jim and Adrian, but I had not talked to, I don't think, a single time before that point. So when I got out there, I was like, should I throw it? Should I not? And then I was, like, in between, and I kind of was, like, trying but, like, not doing too much. And then it ended up just being. So we were out there for a while. I don't know if it showed. It took us all a very long time to finish that competition before Vince finally won. But, yeah, I was hesitant on wanting to be the first HOH just because of the target. And of course, I felt like I would lay low and not be a target and all of those things. And then the opposite happened. Hindsight 20 20, everything worked out the way it was supposed. It would have been nice to win.

[B]

What a different season it is if you win that and not Vinnie. Like, the entire season is so different.

[A]

Completely different. And also, I think my edit would have been different.

[B]

Oh, for sure.

[A]

Completely different. I think it would have been more of a winner edit.

[B]

Okay, so Vinnie wins. Now, I think most people at this point, if they're watching this, at the very least know that there's more to the story than what on the episode, which is that you were invited to take a shower. It was not nearly as long as they made it out to be in the episode. In fact, a lot of the time you spent up there was actually talking game with Vinnie. Now, from Vinnie's perspective, it felt like he didn't really care about Showergate in general. It was just the fact that it had become a thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What we now know about Vinnie and what we found out about Vinnie fairly quickly is that like. Like, if you give him an easier option, he will take that option. And so you became an easy option very quickly as the people downstairs seemingly led by Catherine. But again, we didn't have live feeds for this. So walk me through your perspective of this.

[A]

Yes. So I guess to clear the air, actually, Julie Chen already cleared the air for me. I heard, like, her on A podcast. And she was like, just so you guys know, I watched the film back. It was maybe 30 minutes, and she said, but they were talking for like, an hour and a half. And that Vinnie didn't come to my defense. All of these are things I knew, obviously. Like, I had a. I don't know how watching it, like, people. The clips that I've been talking, like, oh, my God, I can't believe I was right about a lot of things, but it was just my intuition. Like, things just weren't. I was very good at observing everything that was going on around me. And, yes, Catherine for sure was the one that started it. I knew she was the one that started it. I don't know. I can't remember because I was fast forwarding, but I confronted her, literally, and.

[B]

Was like, that was in the episode.

[A]

Like, because I knew that she was the one. Like, my gut instinct told me that because she asked me about it twice. She asked me about it in the bedroom when I first walked to the bedroom, and then when I walked back through to grab something. She then asked it in front of everyone. So immediately I clocked it. I'm like, you are trying to make this a thing. Like, you're trying to put me on blast in front of everyone because you just asked me about the shower thing, and now you're asking me again in front of a group of people. So I immediately clocked it. I clocked her energy. I don't know why. I. I just got. So what you probably won't see from the live feeds is, like, day one, which obviously is probably why I got picked for Jimmy. I was pretty, like, light in the house, day one at least. Obviously, that changed very quickly. But day one, I was probably one of the most, like, people. Like, I made a lot of connections. There was kind of a trio forming with me, Lauren and Catherine. And I also had Jimmy. I had Mickey and Morgan wanting to work with. Like, it was a lot of things that happened day one. And I think she didn't like that. And I think that's also why I got. Jimmy picked me, because I actually told him I didn't want to be picked even to be the hr. I said, you know, I don't really want to be picked, but, like, if you want to pick me and, like, you feel comfortable with that, I will do it type of thing. And a lot of people didn't want to be picked. And he still chose me. And because he just felt like he could trust me and, like, if I was hoh, he'd Be happy with that. So day one, I had a great social start. Day two, all the way downhill. And I just think she wanted to target me because I don't think she liked that. I don't think she liked that. A lot of people like me on day one, and we're trying to work with me, and I think she just wanted to sabotage that, and I just became the easy target. But as far as. Wait, what was the. Again? Sorry, I totally lost it.

[B]

I. I think in general, we're just getting the perspective. What you're. What you're saying, though, is. Is reminding me of something Morgan actually said later in the season, which was because she was defending you to, I think, Keanu, and she was saying that, like, you got off to a really rough start because the other women in your age group, Catherine and Lauren, who should have been like, your bread and butter, like, your, you know, your pals, that's. People tend to gravitate toward people that are similar to them initially, were the ones that kind of, like, seemingly rejected you and tried to oust you. And so that was very powerful. And you. You had this rough start because of that, and you had to sort of claw your way back up through that. And I think that it. The fact that it was Catherine was more impactful. Like, if it had been. If Will had been, like, a cranky old man, you know, like, he was like, what is she doing in the shower? Like, I don't think anybod would have cared. The fact that it was one of your peers, that was like, ooh, what is she doing? It really landed. And of course, in the early days of the season, everyone's looking for a scapegoat.

[A]

Everybody's like, absolutely. And so that was tough. And I think it was really just my relationships. Like, I connected with Amy. Like, I said, there was, like, a handful. Most of the house, I connected with literally day one. And I think she just want. I don't think she liked that. I don't think she liked that Lauren even was more connected to me than Catherine. Like, day one, because me and Lauren had a lot in common. Like, we both like Beyonce. There were just so many things we. We had in common, and we really just vibed. But anyway, so going into that day to. Obviously, I started hearing about it because people started telling me about it. I woke up thinking, today's a new day. I didn't think it was going to be this explosive thing at all. So it's. So. It's funny, like, I was totally naive to the fact that this would spread like wildfire. But I started that day having great conversations. As the day went on, every single person kept coming up to me talking about the shower thing. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. And at the time, I thought me and Vinny were going to work together with Jimmy. And so I was like, you know, I shouldn't share that we were talking game because if he feels that, if he feels like that's like a dig at him and like I'm trying to kind of put a target on his back, then he'll definitely put me up. And at the time, he had been assuring me, promising me, swearing on his life, basically, literally. He was like, my word is everything to me in life, in this game. I'm not putting you up, Ashley. We made a deal. I'm not doing it like all this stuff. So I'm thinking, you know, I'm good. Like, I'm like, I'm good. I'm fine. But it's what's really interesting that they didn't show. He invited me to shower. Okay. I even was like, no, no, no, you need a shower. It' first hoh. I don't want to do it. Like, we had this whole back and forth about it and he was like, ashley, please shower up here. I do not want to shower right now. I want to unpack my clothes. I don't feel like it. He's like, go down. Please go down and get your stuff and come back up. Why shower down there with a bunch of people? Like, shower up here. And so it's just funny that they cut out that entire conversation. It also, they didn't show the time of the shower. I totally thought I was going to be, like, redeemed by the editing and that they were going to put like a clock and it would show, like, how long my shower is and Nah, that's.

[B]

That's not how they like to operate.

[A]

And the veto. The veto picking. I was like, okay, I am actually being gaslit right now. I was like, on live.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Watching it.

[B]

They call the veto draw during your shower. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I just like, I'm completely gagged by this. And now I was like, okay. I think it was set up because it happened several times time where I would wait my turn in line, finally get in the shower. I am like in there for three minutes and it's like time to pick players for the meet. I'm like, so now I'm like, oh, it was on purpose. But then I just felt like I had bad luck. Actually when I Was on the show.

[B]

Yeah. So you, you, you're one of the first recipients of the lesson that many people have to learn, although many refuse to over the course of the season, which is that the more aligned you are with Vince, the more he's likely to put you on the block. And so this is bad news. The edit also does you dirty, in my opinion. I was actually mad about this on premiere night, or I guess Sunday night for the second episode that they showed you like coming into the HOH room over and over and over as though you were like super pestering Vince and that was the real reason you went on the block. This happens all the time. Like, it's a very normal thing that people are like, hey, are you done yet? Especially if the person doesn't want to talk to you. It's very much like a self fulfilling prophecy if it is, if it does get annoying. And you know, I, I didn't buy for a second that like that was the reason you went on the block.

[A]

No, and also the time frame. I'm like, the fact they didn't even show it. Like one was in the morning and one was at night. Like, like the way they showed it made it seem like I was constantly coming in, in. And then the Catherine conversation, which I found interesting, they were talking for over an hour. I mean, Vince had like hour and a half, two hour conversations with every single person. So it's like when I came in again, it had been like 45 minutes of me just sitting outside, like of the room waiting to the point where even one of my peers was like, maybe you should go in. Like, I don't think Catherine's going on the block. I think you are. Like, what it didn't show was people pushing me to go in. Like, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is crazy because people are trying to pretend that they were my ally and that they're looking out for me. And they're like, they're like, you really need to go. Like, girl, go. It's been an over an hour. Like, go in. And then they just show me like coming in. You know what I'm saying? It just is. Yeah, I'm not happy with that edit at all because also it was like hours apart. I talked to him in the morning and I talked to him again at night. I think that's perfectly normal before a nomination ceremony to check in, you know what I'm saying?

[B]

They really, like, let me, my, my interpretation of the way they edited that was that they were like, all right, right. Ashley's, our first boot. Let's. Let's do a fun dunce edit.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

By the end of the season, they were like, oh, wait, should we have.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. No, literally. No literally. And I've heard that from Chelsea. I don't know if you saw that, but I was online the other day and she said, production regrets. They're out of me.

[B]

It's. I heard that too. And it's like, I. I hear that, but, like, how much can they really regret it when they had a lot of time to change course? You know what I mean?

[A]

Lot of. I mean, I was quite liter on the show the whole way through. I mean, they could have changed it. They never did. Yeah.

[B]

So you're nominated. Give me a rundown. Anything important that you felt you've watched the first few episodes that you felt weren't in the episodes that happened prior to your veto win? Because that's when the feeds, like, really kicked in.

[A]

Yes. So Jimmy was someone I also clocked very on that I didn't trust, because before the nominations, the night before, um, Jimmy pulls me and Amy into a room and he was basically like, you know, I'm trying to, like, remember verbatim what he said, but it was basically along the lines of between you and you obviously pointing at me and Amy. He's like, you as in me. I have. I should be very worried. Amy, you shouldn't be worried at all. You're not going up, probably. I had already known that Amy was going up from Vinnie himself. Obviously. I knew Vinny and Jimmy works way closer than me and Vince, Vinnie, So I knew that Jimmy knew, if I know that Amy's going up, Jimmy definitely knows that Amy's going up. So in that moment, I was like. I clocked. I was like, oh, I can't trust Jimmy. Like, Jimmy cannot be trusted because why are you telling me that I'm for sure going up and Amy is not when I know for a fact Amy's going up? I haven't told Amy she's going up. You know what I'm saying? So I caught Jimmy. Literally. This was like day three. I called Jimmy. Like, I was like, he cannot be. Love you, Jimmy. On a personal level. But I knew Jimmy cannot be trusted. And that's what also told me. And my intuition was like, Jimmy's probably pushing for me to go up. Why are you sharing with me that I'm for sure going up? You know, it just. It just was very weird. And so I clocked that too.

[B]

And I'm just going to take a moment here to say that that is one of the things that I really appreciated about your game and watching, especially on this season. Because Ashley, when I tell you as a person who watches the show primarily for strategy, this season nearly broke me with all of the players in this house. You were always such a breath of fresh air. Share. There were moments I didn't understand what you were doing, especially early on. Can't wait to talk about them. But what I could always trust was that you had such great reads on situations. And it's. It's pretty rare for players to catch those things. They feel like they should be obvious, but, like, it doesn't actually happen that often. There are lots of things that I find very interesting about your game that I'm sure we'll talk about along the way. But it is the way that you are able to suss things out out by catching those little things and not ignoring them that really aided in your gameplay across the season was something that was very hard, I think, for the show to portray.

[A]

Thank you. That is so sweet. Thank you. I. Yeah, I remember Kelly. It was the same thing. She came up to me. She pulled me for one on one and was just like, I really care about you, and so I need you to know, like, everybody's talking about the shower thing. You might be going up. You definitely want to talk to Vinnie. I was like, okay, Kelly's not the person I can't trust because if you're telling me this, you're someone who's definitely pitching me. Like, it was just things that people were saying that it just. I was like, no, same with Zach. Zach pulled me. Same thing. I was like, okay, these three, I know I can't trust them for sure. I didn't know how to feel about Morgan because I did feel like Morgan really liked me on a personal level. But I was like, I just didn't know about Morgan until obviously, as we saw as the weeks develop, me and her beginning came very, very close.

[B]

But, yeah, so you end up winning the veto. Great stuff. Your first of two competition.

[A]

Yeah, literally.

[B]

And so the feeds come up. You've already won the veto. Now, what we saw in the episodes that was that Kelly had volunteered to go up on the block initially and Vince had turned it down. And I was on the episode saying, like, I don't like the way that Vince described why he put Ashley up. I feel like it's not. Not. Doesn't feel genuine to me. But the fact that he didn't put Kelly up is still the good. A good call. If you have a final two with somebody, why in the world would you put them on the block? Then the feeds came up, and Kelly was the renom plan.

[A]

And I was like, oh, okay, so.

[B]

Let'S just lay down the structure. We talked about the heavy hitters. Now, Jimmy is the sort of originator of the heavy hitters, and he also has this triple threat alliance with Morgan and Mickey.

[A]

Mickey.

[B]

He's told Mickey about the heavy hitters already. She knows about it. And. And. But the thing about this is that Morgan actually kind of sits in a better position than Jimmy does in this group because she's closer to Vinnie than he is. She's closer to Zach than he is, and she has him and Mickey, and she also has Rachel, who is most loyal to Morgan of all of the people in this group at this moment. Um, and so one thing I found interesting, especially when. When I go back and look at my notes, first night of feeds, I'm looking at my notes and I see Ashley talking to Amy, saying, jimmy, Everyone thinks Jimmy's running the game, but Morgan's actually the person running the game. And it was like, wow, okay. Yeah, that's. That. She was kind of right.

[A]

It's crazy, like, hearing all. It's like, funny because it's like. Because that obviously was like, 90 days ago. So it's funn like, remembering these little tidbits and being like, oh, I was right about that. Yes. I clocked that very early on. I really came in here and I was like, I know I'm going to observe. Like, I feel like as an attorney, you're always observing things, and you're always trying to put the puzzle pieces together before you even get the full puzzle. And so for me, I was always observing. I was watching who was talking to who, who was communicating to who. I also, you know how people are communicating with me. I saw that Morgan was the one coming to me and being, like, sharing certain things that were happening around the house and who was saying what. And she was the one saying it was Catherine, but I already knew it was Catherine, you know, like, I clocked how people would report to her as well. Like, I saw after I talked to Mickey, Mickey would go to Morgan. You know, Jimmy would go to Morgan. And so I'm like, oh, she's really the ringleader of the circle. Just from. Just from observing and just picking up on subtle things and conversations that I would have with people. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Early on, he was like, I really feel good because I was like, who do you feel good about on this Wall. Because I'm trying to figure out who else is going to go up besides me. And he said, Morgan and Mickey. So I clocked that immediately. I'm like, okay, this is day two, day three. And you feel really good about those two people. Okay, I'm gonna watch this now.

[B]

Listen, something else I saw in my notes was that night one of feeds, or it was, I guess, the first morning back. Day seven. Vince goes to Morgan because he's struggling about Keanu or Kelly as the Renam. First thing he tells her. I had this vivid dream about you last night.

[A]

Get out.

[B]

Yeah, they were. I think. Listen. I think there was. Their connection happened very quickly. Of course, it developed over time. So despite Morgan's position here that I outlined, she is struggling to. To use that position to influence the game in the direction that she wants. Jimmy's pushing hard against her. Her. Vince is pushing hard against her because they want Zay to stay. They're bros with Zay, and she wants Zay to go because he knows how to play chess.

[A]

Right? Yeah, it was really interesting. Yeah, no, there was. Yes, that whole thing was interesting, but I was like, I'm cool with this, and my girl Amy could stay.

[B]

Yes. And so I. I liked this when I saw this from Morgan because I was. It was showing that she had a backbone. It was showing that she was willing to push for things that she wanted, which, of course, course, becomes a very important skill for her later on in the game. And so she kind of turns to Rachel to tap into Rachel's sphere of influence, which includes you and Amy. And she wants to, like, work with the women to take out Zay against the wishes of Jimmy and, you know, Vince and Zach because she wants to. To get her way here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And at this point, they've already kind of kicked Riley out of. Out of the alliance. And so. So all this is happening mor. Kelly going up on the block because that makes it easier to take out Zay. If Keanu goes on the block like Jimmy wants, then. Then Keanu becomes the target. So Morgan doesn't want Keanu to go up. Rachel doesn't want Keanu to go up because Keanu and Rachel have bonded. And you probably saw this in the episode.

[A]

I saw that about the cancer. I never knew his dad had a cancer. Yeah, the whole show. I never knew that. So I just found that out last night.

[B]

Yeah. So we came in, and we were. We were pretty shocked at seeing how much Rachel really did, like, bond with Keanu and liked him, considering all of the things he was already saying about her. And while her and Morgan were the only two people in the house vouching for him with Vince, as Vince was like, I'm going to put up Keanu. Keanu was downstairs calling Rachel a snake and Morgan.

[A]

It's crazy. No. Keanu's reads. I'm so glad other people picked up because he was one of those players that was just driving me crazy throughout the game because his reads were just so off. And I wanted to work with Keanu multiple times just because he was such a big target. I saw him as a shield. I saw him as an ally. I saw him as someone who could potentially win a veto and take me down if I'm up. You know, I saw the positives about Keanu because he did want to be loyal to those that were loyal to him, but he just didn't want to work with me until the game, granted, because he thought I was dumb and had no connections in the house, which obviously that was also of my skit. But it's just his. It was so hard to work with Keanu because he just was so off about so many things. But we'll get into that, I'm sure, later. But yeah.

[B]

Rachel warns Keanu about Jimmy's push for him to go up. Keanu doesn't seem to believe it. He goes to Vince, and first of many times, rats are out to Vince. Vince blames Jimmy for all of it. So Keanu starts counter pitching for Jimmy to go up because he doesn't want Kelly to go home because he's close to Kelly. Vince won't consider the Jimmy option, instead ratting Keanu out to Jimmy, which reignites Jimmy's antagonism back toward Keanu. Then Keanu continues to go around on this anti Jimmy campaign. And the next morning, Jimmy refuses to hug Keanu, which informs Keanu that he's been ratted out. And he suspects Morgan because he saw Morgan talking with Jimmy the night before. He calls her a snake. First. Morgan tries to clear the air about that. Instead, he blames. Ends up blaming Rachel and. And all of this mess. Rachel. Morgan cries about being called a snake. And now all of a sudden, Vince is thinking, maybe I should put up Keanu. He's really worried because Jimmy's pushing now that if he puts up Kelly, Kelly will go home. You don't have the votes. Because here's the thing. Vince thought he had the votes to keep Kelly. I was losing my mind, actually. This was the first night of feeds and I'm watching this man count votes and he's Like, I'm pretty sure. Sure we can get to, like, 7 of 14. I'm pretty sure we got there. And Jimmy has to be like, dude, you don't have the votes. And he was like, oh, my God, am I gonna look like an idiot? And. And so he starts to want to put Keanu up. Of course, he can't do so without talking to Riley and Morgan first. Riley, because he's already in this sort of trio. It was either already called the Unexpendables or becomes completely Unexpendables soon. Riley, Keanu, and Vince. A final three that Keanu believed was real, basically until his eviction.

[A]

Like, Keanu sounds like him when he talks.

[B]

And. And this is. This is the. The thing for Keanu. He believed in Riley. He believed in. In Vince all the way through the season for the most part. Night one of Feeds or, sorry, day two of Feeds. Day seven in the house. Vince talks to Riley to see if he'd be okay with him putting Keanu on the block. And Riley says, yeah, I'm done with that guy.

[A]

Like him. Oh, wow.

[B]

And it is Morgan, actually, that tells Vinnie, no, do not put Keanu on the block. We have to take out Zay. Kelly should be on the block.

[A]

Wow. Interesting. So I was right about Morgan kind of running. Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So.

[B]

Of course, Kelly ends up going up on the block. Jimmy has the big speech.

[A]

Speech.

[B]

And there's a bunch of back and forth here too, where after the speech, Keanu goes back to Vince because, remember, Vince told Keanu that Jimmy was the reason his name was being put. She ratted out Jimmy. So Vince, Keanu goes back to Vince. He goes, it was Jim. It was Jimmy. Right? And Vince is like, maybe. I don't know. I don't know what you're saying. Actually, he backs out of his original story. So Keanu goes back to Jimmy thinking maybe this is all a misunderstanding. Jimmy's like, yeah, definitely was a misunderstanding.

[A]

Okay, I know. Part I remember. Yes. Yes. I remember being like. That was my first time being like, keanu is built to brawn, not brains. Because I was like, how could you possibly believe that this is a misunderstanding? Because I knew at the time Jimmy wanted Keanu up. Because Jimmy pitched it to me right after Mickey pitched it to me. Because they were both trying to pull me in as an Alex. I'd already won the veto, and they sat me down. They're like, so Vince is going to come to you, and he's going to ask, who do you want to go up and. And they were like, you need to say Keanu, which at the time, I already wanted to say Keanu, because what they didn't show was the gyms. It's just so interesting. They didn't show so many scenes about Keanu being a complete. I actually do like Keanu right now, but the edit they gave him is not what happened in reality at all.

[B]

What percent of the vote?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, literally. I mean, I'm telling you, like, he pulled me the night before I went up and wanted to clear the air because I'd been hearing Keanu was spreading, you know, the shower thing a lot. And so he pulls me. We go talk. Morgan and Mickey were pushing us to talk because Morgan and Mickey wanted to work with me at this point, but they were working with Keani, which I picked up very fast. And he pulls me to the gym, and he's basically just like, I mean, you should expect that if you don't win the veto, you know, you're going to go. You're going to go up and you're going to go home. He, like, was just completely talking down at me, and that was when I started not liking. That was, like, the start of me not liking Keanu, which obviously I got, and I started liking him. But it was just the way he was very condescending. He was very, like, man, winning. He was really telling me, like, basically that I was going to go home that week and that I'm the easiest target. I'm going to be on the block. I'm going home. And so it's just funny because Keanu's reads were just. Anyway, it's just. It just is just interesting thinking back to all the conversations and all the things had. And that was one of those conversations that they didn't show, which I totally thought they would, because it was. It was drama. I mean, it was drama, like, because I was. I was giving it back to him, and he was not expecting it because that's the thing about me. I'm, like, very, very so sweet. But, like, don't treat me like I'm an idiot, because I'm very so an idiot. And I'm pretty sure that came out but was edited differently. But I'm sure we'll get into that, too. But, yeah, I see Keanu's edit so far. I'm like, oh, I see why he was America's favorite.

[B]

Yeah. So then it's down to the campaign, and it's Amy versus Zay. Kelly is a de facto target at this point, which Vince very much does not like at first. Because, again, he's like. He's. He's, like, talking like they're gonna. They're gonna portray me to be an idiot. They're gonna show Rachel telling me to not. Not put Keanu up, and then she's gonna laugh at me and send her home. And. And so he is, like, fully anti Rachel at this point, like. Like, take out Amy to take a shot at Rachel despite the fact that they're in an alliance together. And. But he's striking out because him, Zach, and Zay are losing the battle against Rachel. Rachel, Morgan, and you. I. I saw. I found a clip early on of you talking with Mickey and how Mickey was saying that she actually would prefer Zay to stay because she's talked more with Zay. But if you trust Amy, she trusts Amy, so she's willing to jump on board. You guys are all campaigning to make sure that the votes are there specifically from the women, and you're pretty much just dominating this campaign trail like it's. It. It's not super close, but I will tell you the couple of attempts, but give me your perspective on this.

[A]

Definitely. So I obviously wanted Amy to say under any scenario. I also didn't really care if it was next. I care if it was Kelly, Zay, Kelly going home. I kind of. I wanted to Kelly. I don't know if it showed that, but I didn't trust Kelly because of all the way she was moving. Like I said, I peeped her conversation, you know, day two or three with me, I didn't trust her. I figured that she was one of the people pushing for me to go up just off of intuition in our convers. I just did not trust Kelly. And then I basically was just like, I trusted Amy 1000%. And so I started seeing, you know, Morgan really wants say to go home. And I started seeing, like, okay, she's like, he's smart. Da, da. And so I just took that and ran with it, because I'm like, okay, you know, if all these people believe it, especially the woman. And I don't know if it showed, like, my conversation with Lauren, but I had a conversation with her. I was basically trying to convince her with reverse psychology on why she should keep Amy, because I could tell just off of reading Lauren. She's not someone who. Who wants to be told what to do. She wants to feel like she came up with that idea herself. And so the only way to do that is you got to use reverse psychology.

[B]

You got to show her you confused the hell out of us. I was like, I can't tell if Ashley actually wants Zay to stay. All of a sudden I'm so confused because it really, like she might be using reverse psychology, but she might because I didn't know you well enough yet. And it was just like, what is happening with Zay? Does she really want Zay to stay? And I remember, like, after the vote being like, ok, she said she was always locked in, but she is still occasionally bringing up that she would have liked for Zay to have stayed. So it was very confusing.

[A]

Yeah. So I wanted they to stay over Kelly because I did not trust Kelly and I felt like there was more trust with Zay potentially in the future than Kelly, especially if I was the one rallying the troops to keep him over Kelly. I could see him being an ally now. They never going to happen. I was always going to keep Amy, but I specifically with Lauren was kind of trying to plant seeds for the future. So I knew I didn't want to push her too hard because I could just tell off of her personality that she's a very, like, shy, meek person and those types of people.

[B]

True, Ashley. I'm not shy. Why would you say that?

[A]

That is actually exactly how she sounds and how she speaks and she's really sweet. And so I knew those people you have to really handle with care. And so I was kind of trying to use reverse psychology because obviously I knew Lauren was going to be there the next week and I wanted Lauren to see that, like, I'm someone that you can get unbiased opinion from and that. That and kind of like build that relationship as time went on because obviously the relationship started falling flat once the shower thing happened because I think she just wanted to kind of, you know, step away. She didn't want to be associated with the target in the house. Right. But now that I've won the veto, it's like, okay, I'm going to be here next week. I'm already starting to build relationships with people in the house, as you can see. I have Rachel, I have Morgan, I have Mickey. You know, I'm Amy. Like, I'm someone that you should want to work with. I was trying to push the girls thing on her and get her to see that, like, there's power numbers and like, if you stick with the women and you stick with this side, that's better. But I wanted her to come up with that idea. You know, I wanted her to be like, I want to keep Amy on her on her own. I didn't want her to feel like I was Pushing her, because I felt like if I pushed her to do it, she would have just voted with the pack, with the Zay, because I could tell she was building strong relationships with the guys. So I really was trying to just walk the fine line of being, like, an unbiased opinion, but, like, also biased. And at the same time, I was kind of planting the seeds where it's like, okay, if I give you this information, you still vote the other way. Now maybe I can make Lauren a target, which. Sorry, Lauren. But I was like, even I knew Amy had the votes at this point, so I'm like, I would love for her to vote with us. I want her to trust me. I want to, like, nourish this relationship with Lauren. But also, if you vote the other way, I already know we have votes for my girl Amy, at this point. Now you can be a target and not me because obviously I'm thinking about next week, and I'm thinking about how I'll be target. So it was a mix of both kind of happening.

[B]

Yeah. And this is the first example of many, I think, that, like, your side of the house, like, really outperforms its weight class because you were in the minority for much of the game. For most of the game. A lot of those other people, Katherine, Lauren, who did vote with you this week, were not actually on your side of the house. It didn't end up on your side of the house. And so pulling their votes was huge this week, because at any point if. If Zay hadn't gone, if, you know, if Adrian, like, at any point through throughout those spots, like, the tipping point was always there. And throughout the first portion of the season, we were always just kind of waiting for the moment when it became a steamroll for those people, and they just kept blundering, and you guys just kept outperforming.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. And I was like, yes. I mean, when Lauren put Adrian up, I was like, thank you, Jesus.

[B]

We'll talk about that. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So two things that happened here. I think you've been told about at least one of them. You probably even heard heard about the other one at this point as well. There were two alliances made in an attempt to shore up votes for Zay. One was the Burger Boys or the Burger Bros. I don't remember which. You have not heard about this?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, okay. So the guys form a guy alliance on all bro Alliance. It's Zach, Vince, Riley, and Will.

[A]

Will. Will.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. I peeped Will be then with the Bros, but I didn't know they Had a formal, formal name. Okay.

[B]

The Burger. The bur. I think I made fun of it by calling it the Burger Boys, but it was really the Burger Bros. But I don't remember if I'm remembering it wrong. Either way, they tried. And it was so blatant, too, that they, like, made this alliance. And then they were like, so, Will, now that we have this alliance, real important we keep Zay around. Right. And. And so they had the Burger Bros. And this actually worked. They got Will's vote that week. Keep to keep say truly got him in some trouble. The other alliance they tried to make here was called the Bond, which I believe you've been told about in the house.

[A]

The Bond. I can't remember who is in this.

[B]

The Bond alliance. So this is Will again. Lauren, Ava, Zach, and Vince.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

This is the Bond alliance. They started this alliance also basically in an attempt to shore up votes to lock in Will, to lock in Lauren to try to grab a Ava. It backfires, though, because Ava doesn't care about the alliance and what they want. She wants Zay gone. She just thinks that makes more sense. And so they've one of many examples. Failed to exert their influence over their allies. Supposed allies. But the bond is definitely something that persists for a little while even though it's. It's such a. Ends up being such a joke of an alliance. Ava and Lauren lock in a final two early. They call themselves the Bond Girls. Yeah. Lauren, though, at this point, I believe already had her final two in with Vince, so she was more loyal to him.

[A]

Wow. Okay. I didn't know they had a final two. Week one.

[B]

I thought, oh, they were locked in.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

He was. I mean, you. You clock it later. He was planning to go to the end with Lauren, and he had always been planning to go to the end with Lauren from very early one.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I thought this happened week two. That's crazy. Okay, interesting. I did catch them on the hammock for a really long time. Week one for the nominations. And I remember being like, this is interesting. Let me remember this. But I didn't realize it was solidified. Oh, my gosh. Wow.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, they. They talked a lot during the Bond meeting. And then I would. I mean, I guess I would say they further solidified it into week two, but again, it's hard to know because we don't have. Didn't have the feeds in the first few days. But the only other thing here is Rachel and Keanu and Z. Rachel tries really hard to get Keanu's vote against, say, because she's trying to get him to believe that Vince was going to put him up, that Zay ratted him out, that Zach ratted him out. And she's trying to tell him these things. He doesn't believe her. She tries to pull Kelly. And it was either you. Were you in the conversation with Kelly when she had, like, a heart to heart? She was like, used to be a pick me.

[A]

I knew I could not trust Kelly. It was that conversation solidified. I will never trust Kelly. Fastest girl in the game. Emotional manipulation times 10. I didn't believe a dag on word that girl said. I was like, this just feels invasive. Like, we just met and you're telling me all these personal, crazy things in your life. I didn't believe it. I knew she wasn't gonna go frame me, and she didn't.

[B]

She literally, like, after that conversation, didn't do this exactly. But, like, the vibe that she had was like, tricks them.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

And then lied to Keanu about what Rachel was saying to her. Saying that Rachel's trying to get me to lie about Zay. Don't believe a word she says. And so that did not help. And. And Rachel and Keanu have some of the most infuriating conversations you'll ever watch. None of them fully make the episodes. One of them kind of does where Rachel is, like, trying to break through to Keanu and. And he's like in this spot where he's like, I know she's trying to trick me and I'm not gonna let her.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. He's just so off. Love you, but yeah.

[B]

And of course, this culminates in the big blow up between Rachel and Zay. If you come for the queen, you'll get beheaded and so on and so forth. Good stuff.

[A]

Yeah, very good stuff. Very good. That was good tv. I loved it. I was like, yes. Everybody else make themselves target so I can radar.

[B]

Of course, this leads to Zay being evicted after Kelly wins the blockbuster, which is a result that not a lot of people were expecting, but was very exciting results. Zay is evicted nine to five. We head into week two, where Jimmy wins the hoh. So I just want to check in Ashley. We've gone through the first week almost an hour in. I'm. I'm fine to go as long as you want. I just want to. We can speed up the pace if you're feeling like you don't want to spend all day here, or we can keep going.

[A]

Okay. We can do like a medium A medium not. But just a little, like. Yeah, yeah, just a little more. Again, I don't have crazy thing, but I don't have anything like crazy planned or anything like that, but. So I'm good for now.

[B]

Perfect. Let me know if you start to feel like. Let's wrap this up. Up. So Jimmy is the hoh. This is an unfortunate. This is an unfortunate week for many of you because Kelly and Keanu win these veto powers, Mickey wins her steel and HOH power. And Jimmy's nominations are fine. They're relatively straightforward. Kelly, Keanu, and Adrian. Adrian having been on the wrong side of the vote.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's got this whole thing about how he hates liars, and he told you guys that he was voting one way right at the start. He votes that way. He thought this was good strategy. Many of us disagreed. He gets on the block because of it and because of Keanu's power that allows Casey to come and win the veto. Kelly's power, which allows her to win a veto for herself. Jimmy now needs two nominees, two replacement nominees to sit next to Adrian. So there's a few competing things here. There's the push for Riley, which primarily comes from, you know, Morgan and Mickey and. And generally, like you guys, you obviously didn't want Amy or Will to go on the block, but from Jimmy's perspective, he felt like he was close to Catherine and Lauren, and so he didn't want to upset them. And on the other side of things, Amy was another person that got caught saying Jimmy's name the week before. And so he felt like, you know, even though they had mended things, might as well throw Amy up on the that block. And. And Will was a convenient additional pawn, primarily because he got into drama with Keanu, which, honestly, to this day remains fairly confusing. But basically, I think Keanu thought that Will was lying about his vote because Will did lie about his vote, but in the opposite direction. He was telling you guys that he voted against Zay but told Keanu the truth. But Keanu thought he was lying to him and not to you. You guys, because Riley was lying to Keanu about his vote. Riley was pretending he did vote to keep say. And so Keanu thought Riley was the vote he was. That Will was accounting for. And so Keanu was pissed at Will about this and was pushing for Will to go up on the block. Jimmy saw this as an opportunity to say, listen, Will's an easy pawn anyway. If I let Keanu think he's manipulating me into putting up Will, and we make a deal, I'm a piece of teasing him. I get something out of this week, considering he's already safe.

[A]

Jimmy, that was kind of a good strategy, I definitely think. I remember being like, no, because obviously I knew if Amy was sitting next to Will, she was gonna go home. At that point, Will was better for my game as well. Like, so it wasn't really much so about personal. It was more about I'm getting dragged into the Amy mess. Obviously, I wanted to keep Amy against many people, but I just knew Will was better for my game at that point. J. Just off of the connection between me, Amy, and Rachel, that people were clocking. People were clocking that I was really close with Amy because I was. And obviously, it was hurting my game. But on a personal level, I just really trusted and loved Amy, so I kind of was like, I don't care. You know, I felt like I could talk my way out of, you know, things. I'm like, if she stays, it'll be good. But at that point, I know. I remember being really sad, but I also remember being like, I can't push Jimmy too hard about not putting Amy up, because then he'll put me up. Because at that point, I didn't trust Jimmy. Like I said after day three, I did not trust Jimmy, and I knew that he was just pretending. I just felt like he was pretending to work with me. I just didn't feel. I don't know. I just didn't feel close to him. I felt his energy was just off. And so I was. Couldn't campaign for Amy because I was like, I don't want to be up. I don't want to be up on the block, you know, with Amy or instead of Amy. So I gotta just unfortunately be okay with it. That. That part sucked. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Jimmy does screw himself up quite a bit here, though, because it really pisses Morgan and Mickey off that he's spending so much time. Time with Lauren and Catherine, not listening to them about who he should be nominating. Tensions rise between those two pairs of women, and. And you get into some hot water here first, because you have an incredible read. When I go back and look at it, you're talking to a few people. There's a great conversation you have with Adrian where you're saying Vinnie's the front runner right now, and you were saying this basically before anyone else. He's got a bunch of people in his back pocket that he's connected to. Morgan's number two. She's in, like, four different duos, and you're talking about this. And you're noting their influence. You're noting that they're linked in with Zach, that there's some kind of like, four person thing going on that includes Jimmy, that includes some other people basically clocking the heavy hitters, minus Rachel to some degree. And. And you're talking to Adrian about it. You're talking. Talking to Mickey about it to try to get in her ears about. About Morgan, I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And it starts to work. Now, Mickey already knew about the heavy hitters at this point, but hearing about it from you did seem to start to move the needle. And we'll talk about it over the course of the next few weeks that you really get Mickey. And you'll see it in the episodes, actually, that you won't see your influence on it, but you'll see that Mickey was really turning. Turning on Morgan for a while there due to much of the things that you were saying.

[A]

Great.

[B]

And so you're talking to Mickey about it. You talk to Ava about it, and you also, I think, talk to Kelly about it. And this is where things get messy because Kelly runs it straight to Vince. And I say think, because I know you had a conversation with Kelly, but some of it was cut. So I don't know if she was lying about parts of it, but she did have basically what you were saying relatively word for word. So it seems likely that you did tell her.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

She rats you out to Vince. Vince, at this point, you know, already doesn't like you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so at this point, Morgan and Mickey had been pitching a new alliance that excluded Jimmy because of what he was doing this week and included you and Will. And Vince and Zach were like, we don't want Ashley in the alliance.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so when Vince hears about this, this, he's like, this is our ammunition to prevent Ashley from being in the alliance. And he was like, she's apparently saying that we're. We four are in an alliance just because she saw us hanging out together at night. Like, I'm sorry, I like hanging out at night. And they were pissed. I think you've probably seen some clips from this conversation about, like, I'm gonna make her life hell in this house. I'm gonna make her. I have not. I'm gonna befriend her. And. And then backdoor her. They were very upset with you. And. And they were like, let's use this to turn Morgan against her. And so they started spreading all of this information. Ashley's a loudmouth. Ashley is messy, can't keep her mouth shut. Needs to go, can't be trusted. And Morgan is kind of like, oh, that sucks. But my agenda still.

[A]

Right, okay.

[B]

But it does do a decent amount of damage to your reputation in the house. And while you're trying to climb out of this position of, like, potential, you know, nominee because you're an easy nom because you've already been nominee, this definitely seems to set you back in terms of, like, having, like, equity in the game.

[A]

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. I felt all this because I remember the talkative rumors, and I was thinking, I don't get it, but I don't regret it because I really was trying to get Mickey. I on my end. Like, I. I did. Like, I mixed feelings about Mickey, but game wise, I felt that she was really good for my game because I saw the input she had, and I saw numbers. And obviously, there's power in numbers. This is a numbers game, especially in the first half of the game. It's truly a numbers game. And I remember seeing how close that Morgan was with some of the people that I wanted to be closer with, Mickey being one. And so I remember seeing it as a golden opportunity because I felt. Felt that Mickey, Mickey, Morgan, Zach and Vinnie may have had something, but I could see that Morgan, Vinnie, and Zach were the stronger. You know, they met without her. And so I was just like, I'm just gonna go for it. I'm gonna plant all these seeds. Because, like, hey, if maybe she sees that they're excluding her and she's kind of like the odd man out of that group, she'll be closer to me and not Morgan. Sorry. Love you. But that was, like, my idea on that. And I remember I never wanted to work with Vince and so Zach. But I knew that Morgan loved Vincent. So I'm like, if Morgan believes that I want to work with Vincent, Zach, then Morgan will want to work with me. You know, she'll want to attach herself to me. And then I also saw that will have this connection with the boys. So I'm like, okay, if all of them believe, oh, Vinnie, it's water under the bridge. Like, who cares that you put me up? You know, Like, I want to work with you. What point would it be to play a cat and mouse game and go after each other? Like, why would I want to do that? I don't want to be a target. I'm like, if these people believe that I feel that, then they'll want to work with me was my idea. Obviously, Vincent, Zach didn't actually want to work with me, which I didn't necessarily want to work with them either, but again, it's a numbers game. And I was like, if I'm covered by them and I have Morgan, then they'll get on board. It's kind of how I saw it.

[B]

Yeah. So you do end up. Because Kelly also runs this to Jimmy, who initially is pissed off, but then actually talks with you about it and says, hey, Kelly's trying to say this about you, that you're about talking, talking about us, and you deny it, and he believes you and thinks Kelly's trying to start stuff. And so it gets a little bit diffused there. So there is a bit of. I. I think the way that I was looking at it or the way that I came to understand part of what you're doing, at least my theory at the time, which I think in hindsight might make sense. Tell me if I'm wrong. It felt like from a good portion of the earth, early game, you were looking to take Morgan out of the game so that you could have Mickey.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you could have Zach. And if. More. Because Morgan, if Morgan was removed, you felt like you have had a decent relationship with Zach.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

A good relationship with Mickey. If you took Morgan out, you'd have both of them. However, at some point, you sort of learned, like, Zach might not be worth it. Like, I'm not sure that's the right path.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Said you pivoted to. Wait, what if I take out Zach?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then separate. Because that's working. Mickey and Morgan get both of them separately and. And then, you know, so on. And so is that, like, sort of.

[A]

Right? Because at the time, me and Zach had a good personal relationship. I mean, he would tell me actually some game information. Like, so I'm thinking, like, okay, I can try to nurture this relationship as much as I can, because Vinnie, I just never saw it with him. Like, obviously, as you guys can probably see, I mean, I saw him as a good number, but we just never connected quite literally, not on a personal level, not on a game level. And obviously, I'm not going to trust someone who, quite literally, week one, swore on everything he wasn't going to put me up and then puts me up. Like, I'm surprised they didn't show those conversations that he literally. He was. Was literally like, my word is everything to me as a man in this. In this life and in this game. Actually, I'm not putting you up. That was at like 12:30am and then at 10:00am he put me on the block. So I obviously did not trust him. But, yeah, I thought I could kind of work Zach a little more. He flirted with me, which, obviously, everybody knows he was not MY type. But I was like, you know what? Maybe I can, like, kind of finagle this and, like, get him on my side. Obviously, I gave up on that. And I was like. Like, you know what? This is dead hole. But, yeah, that. That was my thought.

[B]

I. I think probably what the, like, people who, like, closely watched you on the feeds would say would be. Obviously, your reads generally were impeccable. Your two worst reads, probably people would say is that you. You couldn't. You didn't see Zach coming for a bit longer than you might have, should have. And then also, Ava was another blind spot.

[A]

Totally blind spot, blind spot, totally Ava. And I completely. Zach, for sure, I knew, was one that I did not see until a lot later. And that was just because Zach would spend hours talking with me. I mean, I'm talking hours. Like, he would talk about his virginity. Like, he would talk about a lot of things. So I'm like, I miss that completely. Until, obviously, I started picking up on it, but I missed it for quite some time. Time. Ava shocked me, seeing those scenes. I'm not even gonna lie. Like, because I can call Speed of Spade. Like, if I'm right, I'm right. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong ava, y'. All. 100%. I did not see. I don't know how I missed that. And I do remember. I remember she was being weird. Like, there was times that she was being weird or she wasn't really telling me information, but I just. Honestly, guys, I chalked it up to, like, Ava being Ava. Like, I was like, Ava is just, like, she sleep. She slept most of the day. Most. Most days. So I just was like, oh, it's just Ava, you know? And then I. Yeah, completely missed that until Mickey mentioned that to me, and I still didn't believe it. I will admit it. I didn't believe it. Even when Mickey told me it was Will. When I. Will's reaction, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is true. I couldn't believe it. Like, even though he tried to lie about it.

[B]

Your face, Will. Your face. I saw your face. No, no, I didn't. I didn't hear what you said. I misunderstood.

[A]

It was the face that I was like, shut up. Ava was coming. Like, that was the shock. I didn't know it was true. I'm telling you, I thought Mickey was lying. When she said that to me in the shower. It Wasn't until Will's face that I knew that that was true. Yeah, I missed it.

[B]

Okay, so. So it's at this point in the game, actually, that Rachel proposes a final two to Ava and says in the episode that for the most part, she kind of means that she would love to sit next to Ava in the final two. She thinks she could beat her. And so this, though, I think, is generally like a side thing. This alliance doesn't really go anywhere. Mostly, I think, because Ava doesn't really care to engage in it. Eva has a very strange relationship with Rachel over the course of the season. She didn't really love her before the final two, and it seemed like she was only kind of tolerant, rating her. During the final two, though, Rachel did help open Ava's eyes to Vince during this time, which was the start of Ava being like, oh, Vince is shady, huh? There's a very funny series of events where Vince is trying to talk to Lauren this week, and Rachel is cleaning, and she interrupts them in the bedroom while they're trying to talk until they leave and they go somewhere else and she. She's cleaning. She gets to that room and they're still. And they're like, oh, no, we're not talking. We're just hanging. And then they leave and go to the boxing gym, and then she goes there too, and finds them there as well, and she's like, oh, my God, these two are really gaming.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. The gym. The gym was the most obvious place every time I would clock when people would go up there, and I'm just like, you guys are making it so obvious. Like, why? Why? Yes, the gym was a place that a lot of people had meetings and Rachel, yeah, Ava, again, complete blind spot. I did see Rachel and Eva's relationship, though, for me, but I didn't think Rachel really wanted to take her far. I just felt like they had a vibe going on a game level. I had no idea. Like I said, Ava, great actress, because actually not even acting. It was just me thinking that she just didn't. Again, she was just aura person. She was like a vibe person. She would be sleep for five hours at a time in the middle of the day. So I genuinely had no idea. I had no idea. I thought she would understand the Jimmy thing because I think that's probably what made her stop trusting me. But, like, for me, I genuinely wanted to keep Jimmy at that moment because I had a aha moment where I was like, I hadn't liked Jimmy before, but now that Mickey's done this to Jimmy. Mickey will be a real number. I mean, Jimmy could be a real number for me moving forward because now he's going after the same people I want out at that time one morning. Out. Zach, Vinnie, either three of them. I wanted them out. Zach probably the least out of the three. But I knew I wanted to break up that. That trio. And I just remember being like, Jimmy's mad at them now. Like, this is perfect for me. Like, if he can win a competition, if he stays, when's the blockbuster, or if I can get the boats for him to stay, this could be great. And I was trying to show that to Ava because, granted, I missed how close Mickey and Ava were at that moment. I knew they were close, but I missed just how close. I thought she would see the value of keeping Jimmy because Jimmy wasn't going after her, but obviously completely backfired.

[B]

There's a lot of fun stuff there. But. So week two, Amy ultimately is evicted, and. And there's not really much that can be done about it here. Now there is this strange thing that. Where, like, Mickey actually starts to try to, like, work on Adrian and, like, start to tell him about some of the doubts she's having about Zach, which, from my perspective, were largely planted by. You shouldn't have said that to Adrian, though, because Adrian, of course, then went to Mickey with that. Or sorry, to Zach with. With that information about Mickey. But we get into week three, Lauren wins the hoh. And this is actually pretty bad news for you because Lauren's initial nominees are Will, Keanu, and you.

[A]

Stop. Really? Okay. That's news to me.

[B]

She did not want to nominate Kelly. She liked Kelly. She had a conversation with Vince where she was like, here is what I'm thinking. I'm kind of thinking Ashley. I'm kind of thinking Keanu. And she didn't, like, love the idea of nominating Will. She's still in an alliance with Will called the Bond. She's just never spoken to the man in her life outside of the alliance meeting. But she's definitely looking at you. And part of this is that, like, your name has been out there and, you know, you are seen as a number for Mickey and. And Morgan, who her, Lauren, and Catherine have been in this sort of, like, adversarial relationship with and so felt like striking at you. Makes a lot of sense. It did. And. And Vinnie actually inadvertently comes in close, clutch for you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because Vinnie says, well, if you're worried, you know, Kelly might volunteer, that might be easier.

[A]

Stop. Oh, my God. All news to me. Okay. Oh, I'm loving this. Wait.

[B]

Okay, so Lauren talks to Kelly and she does volunteer. Just like that. You're good.

[A]

Oh, what is wrong with Kelly? Oh, my gosh. I love it, though. Shut up. Dumbest.

[B]

Now, I will say there's still a lot you had to do here, especially throughout the week. You really also should have been the option over Will. It made no sense for her to nominate within her own alliance instead of you, but she was fearful that not only because there were two things going for you here, in my opinion. Early nominees are very often renominated early on, especially in a blockbuster format. And so the fact that you weren't renominated until much later, huge testament to your game. But there were two things helping you. One is that you won the veto. And so people were thinking, oh, she can win comps. That's not good. But more importantly that. That because they weren't scared to renom Kelly Keanu, etc. Was that you did manage to reintegrate yourself with other people that would be upset if you went on the block. And that was the big thing. And that's why she felt comfortable nominating Will, because a lot of people, specifically Lauren and Vinnie, often had this philosophy of, like, if I nominate my own allies, only I can be mad at myself, not anyone else.

[A]

Idiots. I love it.

[B]

So. So the nominations kind of lock in. It's Kelly, Keanu and Will. Of course, there is a whole bit of drama that happens right before the nomination ceremony where Mickey makes kind of a last minute push to not put. Not have her put Will on the block and instead put up Adrian.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And she pushes hard. And Vinnie and Zach, who should be pushing Lauren hard. Pushing hard. They are, like, kind of hands off because Vince said, I would love for Ashley to go home this week, but if you want to do something safer, Kelly might volunteer. And he seems to be worried about pushing too hard. And so Mickey, on the other hand, is like, it'd be a real shame if people went after you. If Will went up on the block basically frightens Lauren, who is like, oh, my God, what do I do? Sure, I put up Adrian. And she's asking Zach about it, and he's like, I mean, maybe. Yeah, maybe don't put up Will because he might expose the bond. So, yeah, maybe. And she's like, so? So I put up Adrian. He's like, oh, well, I mean, I thought you were talking about Ashley, but I mean, I guess, I don't know. Again, like, just kind of worried to be caught pushing your name and Then. And then, you know, Vinnie comes in, does the same thing, talks, probably pros and cons, because he wants to say honestly that he only talked pros and cons. And. And then you actually talked to Lauren. Pretty clutch conversation. You might not have known.

[A]

No.

[B]

And. And she ends up locking in with Will at the end of the day. But she was like. She, like, walked out of that wine room in a daze. I said it was like 28 days later. She was like, what do I do? Somebody talk to me. Somebody tell me what to do.

[A]

That's so funny. Funny. Oh, that's so funny. And no, I had no idea. My conversation came in clutch. I generally did not think I'd be an initial nom. I always was worried about being a Reno. So really my conversation with her was to try to sway her into seeing you shouldn't put me up at all. As in, like, not a renom. Not an arm. I actually did not think I would be an initial nom. But when she won, I. I don't know if it's just my reaction. I was not happy because I knew I was going to be on the chopping block. Now, I didn't think I'd be on the initial talking block, but I was like, if anyone wins the veto, I'm going up. Like, that was my thought. That was my thought. So that's interesting to hear that. She was going to put me up as an initial mom because I thought she'd be too scared to do that because at that time I had really, like, started to infiltrate myself and have a little posse around me where it's like, okay, now you're gonna be scared to put me up because Mickey is a scary player, Morgan's scary player, and Mickey and Morgan love me. You know, that was like, my idea. Why I didn't think she put me up because I was like, she's too scared.

[B]

She was. Vince at this point is basically reaches his limit with Kelly because Kelly is. Has been feeding him information this whole time, has still thought that he's her final two, and she's trying to warn him. Hey, people are noticing you and Lauren and. And Vince is like, Kelly's so annoying. She keeps making this up. There's no way that anybody sees me and Lauren's relationship.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I saw it. It was bad. I was. Why I kept pushing Mickey. I was like, mickey, Lauren. And then I tried to start playing the sea with Morgan, obviously, eventually, because I'm like, I need to split them up. Obviously, it didn't work. She stuck with Vinny the entire time. But.

[B]

And you had also warned Adrian, who started noticing, because Adrian walked in on one of their conversations, and they were very much just like, you know, yada, yada, until he left the room. And so he went down and said to Zach, like, hey, like, Vinnie and Lauren are like, what is happening with them? And Zach ratted him out to them. And then Adrian talks to Lauren about it alone. And this gets Adrian into some trouble because. And it's. It's a huge part of the reason why there wasn't a bigger push to keep him around because he was a little skeptical of what was happening and the fact that they were lying to him. So nominations happen. And, you know, things are tricky. Keanu and Rachel sort of reunite a little bit. Keanu sees Rachel and Jimmy as, like, loners now who don't have anybody. And so he thinks he can, like, because Keanu in there, we always had to sort of be like, okay, here's the game. And then here's the game Keanu thinks is happening. And in Keanu's mind, he. At this point, he was in, like, a solid trio with Riley and Vince, and he was on top of, like, a majority alliance, and he was, like, reaching out olive branches to the loners, Rachel and. And Jimmy. And so they start doing all this, but it's. It just continues, this cycle of, like, Rachel talking to Keanu and then Keanu writing her out to Vince, oh, I'm having the secret relationship with Rachel. And then Vince going to Rachel being like, why is Keanu saying he has a secret relationship with you? And then Rachel going to Keanu being like, are you telling Vince about our secret relationship? And then Keanu going, classic Vince. He just can't hold a secret. He's accidentally revealing things to Rachel.

[A]

Keanu was doing this the whole game. Drove me crazy. Even till the end. I would try to tell him and warn him things about vet, and then he just go run right back. And then obviously, I'd hear through Morgan, and it's like, killing him. Shut your mouth, please.

[B]

And at this point, Riley is like, full on. Like, I would die for Catherine. Yeah, it. And let me tell you, Keanu had multiple conversations with Riley where he was like, you know, you're gonna have to cut her eventually, right? You know, you're gonna have to pick us bros, right? And Riley was like, I don't like this, man.

[A]

No, I knew Riley did not. Like, I tried to tell Keanu that week six, and he didn't listen. Never believed it, Never believed it. Never Believed it.

[B]

So you're making more progress with Mickey and Morgan in the hopes of enlisting Mickey in this mission of sort of splitting up this new. Because you're now seeing, like, Lauren is definitely in this. It's like, Zach, Vince, Morgan, Lauren, and. And this was another thing that I think was tricky to see at the time, exactly what the purpose was, because a lot of people were, like, people talked about how you somehow seemed. Sometimes Seemed to have an evil twin in the house.

[A]

Yes, I saw that, actually.

[B]

Yes. And the evil twin was somebody that, I think people didn't always know what the purpose behind some of the things you were doing were. And so one of those things was, why are you poking at Zach so much about Morgan? Because it's really pissing him off, and it's causing all kinds of chaos, and people enjoyed it. But they're like, is this strategically sound? I believe. Tell me if I'm wrong.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think this was just you trying to do more to split this group up, cause more drama, you know, sort of push this agenda of this love triangle in order to prevent these four from really locking in.

[A]

Yes, I wanted to split them up immediately. I mean, that was a huge danger, dangerous threat. Four people, two of whom have won competitions. Now, obviously, Zach, like, I don't really count his $10,000 thing as a one, but, like, Vinnie and Lauren are now two people won competitions. Now I have four people getting together. Morgan was super. You know, I saw her as someone who had a lot of allies who had some impact at this game. I need them split up immediately. I'm like, I will say and do whatever I have to do to cause distrust between these people to split them up. And, yes, it was messy. I did not care at that point. I felt like these people have got to not trust each other and split up immediately. Like, I did want to work with Lauren and the sense of, like, I saw her as. She's a super fan. So I'm like, okay, she's already won one competition. I could see her winning more. Like, she just was someone I could just see being a competitive threat. And I was like, I can use that to my advantage. And she's also really shy and easily influenced. So I'm like, I know she trusts Vinnie. I know she trusts Vinnie. I can feel she doesn't really trust Morgan. So I can try to split up Zach and Morgan somehow or cause a rift between this triangle, you know, because if Lauren thinks that Morgan wants Zach and is doing this, then she won't trust Morgan, you know, and If Zach is seeing that Morgan and Lauren could be at odds that he won't trust Morgan, because I could. I could tell he was like ride or die for early on. He was, like, in love with that girl the minute he laid eyes on her. So I was like, I'm going to try to cause chaos in this group to break them up as much as I can. Sorry, guys. But I was willing to do whatever it took. I did not care if they got back. I genuinely was like, I'm going to poke this bear until this bear explodes.

[B]

So Keanu wins this veto, which is bad news for you because it was such an easy, obvious slam dunk decision. Obviously, you should be the renom.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that meant that, like, you guys had to go into overdrive, like operation save Ashley. One after another, you, Rachel, Mickey, Morgan, Jimmy filing into Lauren's hoh room. It's, in my opinion, the most aggressive and coordinated pitch of the entire season. Like, you guys were all working together with one, like, goal in mind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And on the other side of things, Vince and Zach and Adrian were complete. Like, Adrian was a completely separate entity from them. And they were trying to get you on the block, but so lightly. And there was one thing you did that I really enjoyed because you. You talked to Lauren. You know, you. You been impassioned plea to her. You also talked to Vinnie and you told Vinnie, if I stay off the block talk, this is. I'm gonna attribute this to you. And actually, I have a video clip. I've prepared some clips. Okay. Hopefully we'll be able to keep in the video. We'll see if we get flagged. But I'm gonna show you this.

[A]

She really values your opinion. I would sincerely appreciate it if you could somehow lean towards Adrian. I know that's a lot to ask, but genuinely, I do not think she would put me up. If you lean towards Adrian, I know you have stronger personal relationships with other people. You also have to think about the end.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's a strong punch.

[B]

Oh, I know.

[A]

I'm probably one of the weaker ones in the back. It benefits you for me to stay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel if I am not on that block, it's because of you. Truly, from what it sounded like, if I am not on the block tomorrow.

[B]

Oh, God, that's a lot of pressure. It's starting to apparently get around that that I'm making decisions for Lauren and whatever happens tomorrow is going to be put on me. I don't know how or where this came from.

[A]

If Ashley is nominated tomorrow, it's Going to be on me again just because I nominated Ashley. And it's the easy thing to paint it on because Lauren and I have.

[B]

Started to hang out a little bit more. If her name is not renamed tomorrow, she will directly relate that to thanks to me.

[A]

But the inverse of that tells me.

[B]

That if her name is up there, I can directly relate that happened because of me.

[A]

Adrian, I'm so sorry. Stop. Oh, my gosh. I can't believe. Work.

[B]

Oh, wait, hold on. I just included that clip because I love it.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. That's so crazy. See, in this house, I can't tell when things I do work necessarily, but, man, I can't believe that that worked.

[B]

Yeah, it's exactly the right thing to do to Vinnie, to basically tell him, if I go up, then I. Or if I don't go up, I will attribute that to you. He took it exactly how you meant it, which is, if I do go up, I'll know it was you. And all week long, we were just like, why are they not pushing harder? This is such an obvious thing. And he just wouldn't push hard. So ultimately, you know, Lauren is swayed by the overwhelming onslaught. You go up in the morning and you promise her safety if you stay up, if you stay off the block. Rachel tells her not to let an unemployed man in his 30s run her HOH. And. And Jimmy also tries to organize some kind of deal. And. And ultimately this leads to Lauren nominating Adrian instead of you, which is just such an incredibly wild decision to make. And in most. In most scenarios, would have been game losing. And in this scenario, did eventually end up game losing to be game, but, like, just a wild call.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I remember being like, I can't believe this work. When she said Adrian, I was like. But I did have a conversation with her that morning where she told me she was leaning. What's keeping me?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I felt okay, because she had not had big lies yet at this point in the game. So I was like, okay. She. She wouldn't tell me that if she didn't think that. But I remember she tried to blame it on Keanu. She tried to be like, yeah, it was the one that wanted you, you know, up. We made a deal for you to go up and, like all of this stuff.

[B]

So one of the big selling points, one of the. One of the cited reasons Lauren gave for why she decided not to do it was that. That she didn't want to be associated with Keanu, which is something that you talked to her about. A couple of people did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because Keanu had gone to Lauren to be like, hey, if you don't want to take the heat, that's fine. Blame it all on me.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Say that you made a deal with me. And she was like, I don't want to be seen making a deal with you. And so because the move was so heavily associated with Keanu, she didn't want to do it anymore. And so that. That was a big deal.

[A]

Oh, my God. It's interesting.

[B]

What else were you thinking at this point? Like, when. When all this was happening and you were trying so hard to stay off the block?

[A]

So I wasn't sure if Jimmy. Wait, was Jimmy trying to get me not up or what was he.

[B]

He was. He was actually defending you pretty hard. He was. He was really going to bat for you.

[A]

Oh, wow. Okay. That. I just wasn't sure. He was telling me that to my face.

[B]

Vince was trying to convince you that he was not. And. And Vince was also. Because Vince was trying to do two things. You're trying to convince you that Jimmy was the reason, not him, if you did go up on the block. And number two, that Adrian making a deal with. With Lauren might have been a reason that. That he didn't go up on the block.

[A]

Right. Yes. Okay. Interesting. Okay, so I remember thinking Adrian had stayed up really, really late that. The night before to, like, try to get off the block on the end initial noms. And so I did feel like they had some sort of deal to get him, not because he wasn't on the block initially. And I thought that was weird that he was on the block. Initially, I thought it was weird that Will went up and said Adrian, to be honest, because Will was aligned with more people in the house than Adrian. So I was like, this doesn't even make sense to me. Granted, they didn't talk and have a personal relationship, but I felt like that was the more messy route to go than just putting up a drink. So I felt like, okay, they probably have some sort of deal that she won't put him up at all. But then I also felt like Jimmy was telling me he was really pushing for me to not go up. So great to hear that he really was doing that. But I remember believing. I just knew I didn't trust Jimmy or Vince. So I was like, I don't trust either of them. I don't definitely don't trust either of them to have my back. But I was like. I knew from my conversation with Lauren how she mentioned, you know, I need to consult With Vinnie. So I was like, this is my ticket. If I make it. It seem like, Vinnie, you know, Vinnie, if you don't do this, if I'm up, like, it's on you. It's your fault. And I'm going to make sure that everybody knows it's your fault and that you're the one pulling the strings in this house, and then you're going to be a target. Basically was my idea. And so. And I actually, I got that idea from Lauren because she's the one who said I need to consult Vinnie. And I was like, bingo. This is what I'm going to use to try to get myself up this block. Because if I can scare him enough into thinking that people are going to think he's pulling strings and controlling people's hoh and he's going to think I'm going to be a target, and then he'll try to push for me to not go up, which I don't know if that actually happened, but I knew that if I scared him, it was a potential that it could work. And thank you to Lauren, because she's the one who gave me that idea. Just by constantly mentioning Vinnie, I was like, oh, if someone else is controlling your hoh, you know, then whatever. And then I also remember thinking she had mentioned Keanu, and I was kind of trying to rely on, like, do you really want to be associated with Keanu? Like, that sort of mentality. Like, if you're associated with Keanu and people that he ran your hoh like, you could be a target. You know, I remember that was kind of my train of thought with that. But that's really interesting, that conversation with Vinnie and Morgan. I'm like, oh, my gosh, it worked.

[B]

So with Adrian on the block, the week was not over because the votes were there to keep Adrian, which Lauren wanted to do. It would be a tie, but the votes were there to keep Adrian, so. So this, of course, really started to pull the heavy hitters, like, they were tearing at the seams at this point because Morgan, Mickey, Jimmy, and Rachel were on one side while Zach, Vince, Lauren, you know, Riley, Catherine, Kelly, Adrian, Keanu, all kind of on the other side.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Jimmy tries to hold them together by remaking the heavy hitters. Heavy hitters 2.0. This one with no Riley and instead Mickey included.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And so it doesn't really go anywhere because they still disagree with the direction of this week. And so Zach and Vince really want Adrian to stay. They really want Will to go. So does Lauren. Again, the votes Are there. But they just don't feel comfortable going to a tie vote and pissing off Morgan and Mickey and everyone else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so. Because that's like, that's very scary. And one of the main things that Vince keeps saying to Lauren is like, well, we'll undo all of the goodwill that you just got by not putting Ashley up. We might as well have just put up Ashley if we're going to send him Adrian. It's like, sorry for not going to send him Adrian. Like. Yeah, exactly. So they start trying to get other votes so that it won't be a tie and that they can try to claim we had. We had no control. It was going to happen anyway. They try to flip Jimmy and Rachel. Doesn't happen. They don't try very hard because they don't expose themselves. Then they have one final push and, you know, all of this to try to get Ava to vote with him, which is a wild call considering it's against will. And Ava actually talks them down. Not only doesn't agree to do it, talks them both down from the decision by bringing up that fantastic argument. Frankly, I don't think you want to be associated with Keanu, do you? That's what Keanu is doing. You don't want to be on that side. And they're like, we don't want to be on that side. Oh, my God.

[A]

So funny. Oh, that's so funny.

[B]

So they back down. Lauren is actually, like, trying to push them. Like, guys, I'm. I'm willing to do it. Bring it to a tie. I'll break the tie. I'll keep Adrian.

[A]

Really?

[B]

And Zach and Vinnie are like, we just can't. We just can't. And so of course, Zach later is like, I did it for Lauren.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But of course, Adrian is evicted in a blindside. 8 to 4 vote. Keanu, Riley, Catherine, Kelly, all completely blindsided. They were expecting that, that tie vote, and it did not come through.

[A]

Dang. I. All I have to say is immediately during that two minutes. What. What intermission in between the vote to evict. When they started gathering, it was like Vinnie, Keanu, Zach, somebody else. They gathered in the center. My red flags went off immediately. What is their discuss? We've already said that we're keeping Will. Right. Obviously not Keanu, but vet Zach and all of us, because we were supposed to be in a flat five plus two with like, Morgan, Mickey, Vince, myself, Will. And I don't remember Ava or somebody. I don't remember the fifth person, but we're supposed to Fly plus two kind of thing we already had discussed. We are keeping Will. What is there to talk about? So immediately I was like, nope, I don't like it. Then I saw Zach staring at Ava the. During. During the vote kind of being like. Like a last ditch effort would seem like to try to flip Ava. Ava turns to me during. Like while this is happening, people are getting up to go cast a vote to vict and Ava turns to me and she's like, are we still keeping Will? I'm like, yes. Like what? What is the. Nothing has changed. Whatever, whatever. And that was when I started being like, nope. Zach convinced. Nope. That was the point when I was like, I can't trust them. But it wasn't until then, like I said, my radar for Zach was completely off until that moment. That was the moment I was like, okay, he cannot be trusted. Because Will really trusted that. Will was one of the people that told Zach. That was like the first person that knew that Will wanted to go home because I don't know if they edited this out, but Will really wanted to go home that week. He really missed when and he also felt like he was just going to go home anyway because that was the second time on the block in a row. And so he was just over it. He was like, if I'm going to be the easy pawn, like send me home. Like I didn't come here to be on the block packing my bags every single week, which is fair. He's a 50 year old man. Like that is so fair. He's got a wife, he's got kids, all the things he's giving up. And so I remember that was the moment I was like, oh, Zach can't be trusted because why are you giving Ava the look like trying to flip her at the last minute for a vote that we already said that we were going to do. So that that was on my radar went off, but it was completely off. Zach did a great job at acting before that.

[B]

Well, let me tell you from my perspective that read that catch possibly saved your whole game. That came in very clutch because things get interesting during week four. Riley wins. Hoh. And of course, yeah, Mickey has this power. I did prepare a little clip here of this is one of my favorites that you did dethroned me is Ashley.

[A]

Girl, I knew, I knew I put two, two together. I'm like, I think girl, I think we're fine because I'm pretty sure I was like 100% sure this year. Five minutes later, what the fuck is going on? People need to Think it's one of you're like, I'm so sorry. Right. I didn't know you weren't going to get your photo. That's why you maybe, like, they just thought they were going to go up. I'm sorry. I don't know. You don't have any ideas? I don't. I'm sorry. I. I love that he thought it was me. I played into it. I mean, denim. We were all sitting there. Oh, really? I knew he thought it was me, and then he came up here and was like, it's Ashley. It's Ashley. It is freaking Ashley.

[B]

When she was sitting here, she was choking. Choking on her spit. I know fake when I see it.

[A]

It's Ashley. Riley, Riley, Riley. You had so much confidence, and you got it wrong. Now look at you. You. You played yourself. And now my girl Mickey has brought the power back to our side. Looks like Ashley is safe for another week. Ah, that is so funny. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

So let me ask you, just to clarify, you were telling Mickey this story because you were not one of the people she told. She actually only told Morgan. And then right before she was going to use it, she enlisted Rachel's help to. To help obfuscate. But you told Mickey the story that you actually clocked it and confronted Rachel, and she said, do not tell anyone.

[A]

Yes. That's actually 100% true. So I knew Mickey had it since quite literally that week that happened because.

[B]

To be fair, everyone in the house did.

[A]

Oh, wow. Really?

[B]

Oh, yeah. So, okay, I guess you don't know this. Zach was standing right there in the competition when Mickey won it. So he basically. And he had like. She had said something, and then they said, the power is claimed. And she was like, I'm 99% sure Mickey has this power. And told a bunch of people.

[A]

I told people I knew. He knew that we had the conversation about it because so how I knew that Mickey had it was Mickey helped me try to find a power in the competition. She literally grabbed my hand because once I got to the front and I found. And I thought I found something, she was like. She heard my voice because I was trying to get to Ava because Ava was at the front, and I didn't know where the things were to put the thing in. And I had something. I thought, oh, my God, I won something. Like, yay. And so I'm like, ava, how do I get this in? I need to find a way to get to the front or whatever. And Mickey heard me. She grabbed me. Mickey's like, it's me, Mickey. Come here. So she tries to help me put the thing in, and then when it didn't fit, she's like, okay, we need to find you another one. She goes and helps me the next 10 or 15 minutes in the competition trying to find a power. That's how I was like, there's no way someone who doesn't have a power is trying to help somebody else have a power. It didn't make sense. And then me and Zach had a conversation. He was explaining how Keanu did the same thing with him. Keanu tried to help guide Zach to find the power, and that's how Zach knew that Keanu probably had the power. And so me and Zach were scared to say the name, but we had a conversation where we were basically kind of like, beating around. Around the bush. Like, you know, I think it's a girl. I think it's a girl. Super safe this week. So it was Jimmy's hoh, who's not going to go up because they're very close to this person. And so I didn't know he told people, though. Oh, dang.

[B]

But that he basically told everyone, including Riley himself at one point. And we now, the audience have been, or at least the live feeders have known this for weeks, that, like, it's a fact. This power is useless because everyone knows Mickey has it. And if she tries to use it, it won't work because she doesn't know how many people know. And I did say I think the questioning will actually be worse for him than. Because if he just had to pick, he would pick Mickey. But the questioning will introduce some doubt. And so when the feeds came back, because at this point, Riley not well liked by the fan base. So feeds come back to a Riley hoh, then go down again to a Mickey hoh, who is very beloved by the fan base at this point. It was quite a roller coaster of a night. And. And. And it was.

[A]

It.

[B]

It could only have been Riley or Keanu that made that decision. You'll see this in the episode we find out later. Vinnie actually was trying to tell Riley. I think think you're wrong. It's not. I don't think it's Ashley. I think it could be somebody else. But he didn't push very hard because that's Vince. Zach knew and decided not to tell Riley because he. He preferred Mickey to be the hoh.

[A]

Because Morgan was gonna go on the block.

[B]

Well, also because, well, you know, maybe I'm putting too many thoughts into his head, but, like, he was in Trouble with Riley. Riley was pissed at Zach for the Adrian vote. What happened was they were blindsided by the Adrian vote, and when Riley won hoh, Vinnie ran straight to Riley and Keanu cried to them, saying, I'm so sorry. I'm such a weasel. I'm just such a terrible. I'm not like a man like you, you know, I want to be more like a man like you guys. And, you know, it's. It's. It's all Zach's fault. You know, he didn't want to do it. And so the. The numbers weren't there. And so I just went along with Zach. Completely threw Zach under the bus to them, gained a little bit of favor with them. It worked enough with Riley and Catherine that he was safe, but they were looking to potentially backdoor Zach that week. Oh.

[A]

So wait, who are his noms gonna be then?

[B]

It was gonna be you, Mickey Morgan.

[A]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[B]

But Zach, they talked about, like, Zach would have been a heavy back door option. So it was a correct move for Zach to not want Riley to be hoh for sure. Although he was also at that time in some trouble with Vicki, but that ended up not being too much of a problem. So very fun stuff. You, of course, go up there, trick Riley into thinking it's you. Fantastic work.

[A]

Thank you. I was like, oh, my gosh. It was fun for me. I genuinely love acting. So I was like, this is so fun. I'm like, I'm going to go up there and just weasel my way through, like, I'm so sorry photos, like, you know, because then I was like, oh, if I apologize, it's really going to get him because he's going to be thinking in his mind, she's apologizing because she's hoh, like, and that's exactly what happened. And I just remember I was just, like, trying to use reverse psychology the entire time, like, you know, emotionally manipulating him. I hated that. I loved it. I really did because we were close. So I was like, I need this man to not be the hoh like, when he wants to the hoh.

[B]

I was.

[A]

I was. The funny thing is I was actually rooting for Zach or Jimmy to win that hoh, which is fun because that's how I felt. I felt better about Zach than Riley, and I felt the best about Jimmy at that point. Even though I probably was going to be Jimmy's renom or their nom that week, potentially at that point, I don't.

[B]

Think Jimmy would have targeted you.

[A]

Oh, great. Yeah, probably that. Probably. Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And So I just remember when Riley won, I was like, I am in trouble because we just did not have a relationship, me and Catherine. I obviously wasn't a fan of her since day two. So I was like, oh, this is terrible for my game.

[B]

Okay. So I. This was a point of contention. We're skipping ahead slightly here. But Mickey tells you, why are you. Why are you vouching for Jimmy when he almost put you on the block during his HOH and I had to talk him out of it? That was kind of true. You were a consideration duration, but, like, not a very heavy one for Jimmy. And soon after that, and I think you came to recognize this, like, it wasn't much longer after that that, like, he was pretty much fully on board with you for the rest of his time in the house. Like, he was not. Yeah. He was not like an op secretly. And, you know, if he had stayed, who knows? Right. Like, it's Jimmy.

[A]

Yeah, right, Exactly. No. And that's how I felt. And I remember pushing back on Mickey and being like, I don't think so. Like, I. Which I think they might have shown that conversation. I don't know, but I've seen it.

[B]

I think. I think, think Mickey was correct in feeling like she influenced him to not put you up. But definitely, like, over exaggerated how anti you he was and still was at that time. And then still was at the time she was telling you.

[A]

Oh, great. Okay, I'm glad then, because I was like, dang, was I embarrassed because I was pushing back on her in that conversation. I was like, I don't think so. Like, I don't think Jimmy's come. You know what I mean? I don't think he's coming for me or like, whatever. She was like, so I'm glad to know that I was right not to trust her.

[B]

Yeah. So a couple things happen here outside of your sphere in this. In this power group group, because prior to this week, Zach, Vince, and Lauren had started to actually start to lock in as a trio. They had talked about Zach and Vince had talked about how they actually preferred Lauren to Morgan and that they were going to choose Lauren over her. However, once Mickey wins this hoh, all this tension between Mickey and what she told Adrian and all this stuff and them getting in trouble with the Riley Keanu side of the house. They were like, all right, you know what? We're actually chill. Like, Morgan, you're our best friend because you need to help us with Mickey, and Mickey, you're also our best friend again. And they kind of all of Your work to separate them kind of starts to go away. And. And the nominations are pretty straightforward here. Keanu, Kelly and Riley having, you know, her having stolen his hoh and him cussing her out. So she did make it a little more complicated because she promised Kelly safety for some reason and then went back on it. But, you know, it is what it is. It's at this point in the game that Vince tells the cameras he is intentionally flirting with Morgan as strategy because his girlfriend at home has told him that's fine, basically.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We learned later that was not true. So. But. But this is when we were like, okay, this is really, like, this is real. As he. He is actually trying to flirt. Of course, this becomes very important later on. Keanu wins the veto. And this is where things get really strange.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

A long conversation happens between Keanu, Mickey and Morgan where he is trying to blame Rachel for all of the distrust between him and them. And they're saying, it's not Rachel, it's Jimmy. He's like, it's Jimmy. Then it's Jimmy's blame. Yeah, Jimmy did all of it. And he does give them some amount of like, whatever scraps he has of like this. These, like, conversations he's had with Jimmy over the last couple of weeks where he's been trying to throw him olive branches. It's pretty. Not in inconsequential, but for Mickey, who was so pissed at Jimmy the week before is she's like. Or two weeks before, she's like, Jimmy's doing all these things. I'm really upset about this. And she starts to think maybe I need to be targeting Jimmy. Morgan's pushing this hard as well. And this is pretty bad for you and for Rachel because Jimmy is a good number for you. It's obviously really terrible for Mickey. You call it a game winner losing move.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Which it was.

[A]

And it was. I just remember thinking this. I pushed. I wanted Vince on that block so bad. I don't know that I wanted Vince on that block because I felt like if he was on that block, he was going home. And I did not trust Vince. Like I said at the time, even though I started not trusting Zach after that vote, I still thought he was a better number than. I just knew me and Vince would never be anything. We would never vibe, we'd never be on the same page. It always be a fake relationship. Zach, I felt like although he tried to flip the vote against Will, and I don't really trust that. Which is what I figured out that week actually was the week I figured out that all my inklings were true because I confronted Ava, and I basically used reverse psychology on Ava by pretending like I already knew, and it was confirmed. It was like, this whole thing. And then she ended up reeling all the information to me, which now I know from clips, which is why she hated me after that, because. Yeah, sorry, you're gonna say something.

[B]

Oh, no, I. But so that happens after the Jimmy Renam. So I will get to that. But you. So you did. You did push Vince, and you also did something here. Not to cut you off, but, like, you also told Rachel about how, uh, Morgan and Mickey had been talking about how they want her out in jury, or they want her to get to jury. Be first person into jury. This makes the episode. And after this, Rachel, because you pitched Vince, Rachel then goes to Mickey, and she tries. And I.

[A]

You think.

[B]

You think you were told about this. She tries to get Mickey to nominate her. She says, I want to go. Or she calls herself Ava in the conversation. And. And between your pitch and then Rachel coming here and being like, if not me, you've got to do Vince. Mickey does change her mind, and she is going to do. She's like, basically like, I'm doing Vince.

[A]

No way.

[B]

At least that's what it felt like to us at the time. It was like, wow, it's Vince. Just like that. And she talks. She just has to talk to Morgan about it. Sorry, Morgan. I think I'm gonna have to do Vince, because a lot of the arguments you were saying, she regurgitates to Morgan. You know, like, you know, Vince is a number for you. And they've been pitching this, like, deal of four people that ends up being the melting pot of Mickey, Morgan, Vince, and Zach. And she's like, that's good for you, but I need my people. Like, I don't want to get rid of my people. And you keep your people. I'm sorry. It's gonna have to be Vince. Morgan cries to her, says, you can't do Vince. You can't do Vince. I need him in this game. He's the only one that talks about. Talks personal things with. And. And she pushes back really hard, and she. At this point, Morgan has backed out of the entire idea of Jimmy at all. She's like, do Catherine. Catherine makes more sense anyway. But Mickey refuses to do Catherine, and so it ends up landing back on Jimmy. But for a moment there, it had worked. It was Vince.

[A]

Wow. Oh, that would have been perfect. Granted, not perfect, because it was great. That stayed. And I got to beat him in the end. But, oh, my gosh, I wanted Vince on that block so bad. I remember I even broke down the cherries. I was like, here are the cherries. I don't know if it showed that. Probably not. But I was trying to show her.

[B]

On the episode, I don't think.

[A]

Oh, not in the episode. But it was on the live feeds. Was it?

[B]

I believe I recall you with the cherries.

[A]

Yeah. I was, like, trying to show her the Venn diagram of, like, Vinnie and all of his connections.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like. And then I remember being like, even if you don't do Vinnie, maybe you should do Lauren, because Lauren is Vinny's legs. You have to chop the arms and the legs off of the person in order to get, you know, get to the person. Person. If you won't do this person.

[B]

It was an effective argument, I think.

[A]

Yeah, right, right. And I'm like, but it's really best to hit the kingpin. If you hit the kingpin, the whole, you know, army falls. Like, there is no army. It's the kingpin's gone. But I was like, at worst, get the legs, get the arm, get the legs, get one of them, chop them off, make them weaker. If you don't want to do vents, I want events up and gone. So about that week. But it's interesting to see that it almost worked. Wow.

[B]

Yeah. And we were all just like, why in the world is she not just putting up Catherine? Mickey had been convinced, and you know this, that Riley and Catherine were now fully on board with her. And they weren't, because, of course they weren't. Riley bragged about how easy it was to fool Mickey. Like, shortly after this, of course, he was still pissed she stole his hoh. But she was so convinced they were numbers for her.

[A]

She was convinced she wanted to take Riley, too. It was crazy.

[B]

It was wild. The. The poll Riley had over some of those people in there.

[A]

Yes. Which is why he had to go, love you, actually don't want you, Riley. But.

[B]

So Jimmy is. Is nominated. The melting pot forms. This is, of course, Morgan's ideal final four. And this is all, like, bad stuff. You call it a game losing decision. And you obviously are looking to potentially keep Jimmy. Like, this doesn't have to be the end. You bring this up to Mickey and it pisses her off.

[A]

Pisses her off. And I did not care because at that point, Mickey had been talking crazy to me. You know what I'm saying? Like, she was a very domineering person. And I started to just Be over it. I was like, listen, this HOH is almost over. And to be honest, she wasn't good at competitions. She was just like me. Like, she was not good at competitions. The only H comp, you know what I'm saying? Like, the HOH she won was. Was random, you know, in the dark, trying to grab some things. So I was like, hey, if she. This H is over, she already did rename. I could just share my thoughts because I have a whole nother week where she can't be like, I am over keeping my feelings in. And I also want her to see that this is a game losing decision. And I wanted her. I wanted really to push that in her head because I wanted her to somehow get on board with keeping Jimmy. Obviously, it never happened, but I was like, this is bad for my game. Like, I saw Jimmy as a number, Jimmy as an ally. Jimmy is someone who could win comps. Like, I that point, I thought he could probably win some cops. And I just remember thinking, this is terrible. I have to get Jimmy out of the situation. Because I feel like Jimmy was a good number for me at that time. At that time, which it sounds like he was. I mean, he helped not get me on the block with Lauren's HOH and stuff. So I guess I read that somewhat. Right. But yeah, I remember thinking if I can. Can somehow convince Mickey that, like, keeping Jimmy is good, maybe she can convince some other people. Because if she's on board, then I can also push it more in the house. But I was kind of afraid to push it more in the house because of Mickey, so. Yeah. But obviously it didn't work out. She did not like that.

[B]

She was very mad at you. She ranted and raved. Ashley should feel great or grateful that I kept her off the block. How dare she not respect my choices? She was. We felt at the time that she was deep in this state of, like, making this really bad decision and then having to feel like it wasn't a bad decision because of how bad a decision it was. So this is the key moment that I was talking about earlier. And you've been mentioning this as well. One of my favorite parts. One of my favorite things you did as well. You get it out. Because all week long we've been like, ava, why have you not told anybody about the. The attempted vote flip?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And to this day, I still don't know for sure exactly why she didn't want to tell anybody. Extract the information from her. Tell me. Tell me about this.

[A]

Yes, I remember. I just was Thinking to myself, okay, one, how can I get Mickey? Because maybe I can save Jimmy if Mickey thinks or starts to see that. Okay, yeah, you're not really aligned with Zach and Minnie. Like you think you're aligned with them and you think this is your posse, your team. Because I could tell. I knew they had a four because I caught them in the room multiple times late at night and I kind of just busted it on the conversation. And I remember we were talking about the jury looking at the wall like, because I wanted them to think, you know, I could be a number for them. But in reality I'm like, this is the obvious other four outside of Lauren, and I need this to X because now this is turning into five and that and I'm not in this five. Like, this is not good for my game. And so I remember thinking, how can I get Mickey to see that she can't trust Zach and Vinny? Because if she sees that she can't trust Zach and Vinny, maybe we can save Jimmy. And even if we can't save Jimmy, then maybe she won't be so pissed at me for, you know, moving into the next week for HOH because obviously we don't know who's going to be hoh. So I remember thinking, if I can prove that, because my gut instincts were telling me that Zach and Vinnie tried to flip the boat because of all the actions I just said earlier, like that happened during that two minute window before eviction. If I can have this information, like confirmed, obviously, because I was like, honestly, I told lies in the game. We know this. But I tried not to tell big lies. And so what I didn't want to do was say something that was absolutely like saying something for fact that I don't even know to be true. So I was like, if I can go to Ava and she thinks that I already know and it's true, then she'll just tell me everything, you know what I'm saying? Because I'll just pretend like I heard it around the house. And so I go to her, I do that and she just spills. And I'm like, no way. This just happened happen. Like, I can't believe I was right. I knew they were trying to flip the vote. Like, I knew everything was sus and she gave me the golden egg. And I was like, oh, I'm about to relay this information and use it as a weapon because this, that was like the ammunition I needed to try to cause discourse in that group and kind of get in. You know, there was a tiny Crack. And I needed to open it with the crowbar, and I saw that as a way to do that.

[B]

It's such a fun clip. I don't have it right now, but, like, Ava's just like, wait, how'd you know? And then you're like, oh, I saw the meeting. Like, you guys had a meeting. She's like, oh, the thing, I think that you didn't know because you. This was also part of a pitch you made to Ava to keep Jimmy.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Ava had actually pitched to Mickey to get Jimmy on the block. Ava wanted Jimmy on the block in the first place and then acted surprised when it happened, even though she had had a conversation with Mickey where she basically was like, do it, Mickey. So when you pitched like, that was unfortunately the wrong person to pitch to. And she was so pissed at you, maybe because you got the information out of her, but I think also just because you were pitching for Jimmy to stay, she was also pissed at Rachel for trying to get Jimmy to stay. I think if I'm trying to get into her head, I think she wanted Jimmy gone so that, you know, players like Rachel would be closer to her. But I don't know for sure. But. But she went up to talk to Mickey after this and said, ashley is so disloyal. It really pisses me off. I mean, she's at all kinds of things. But she went on a rant about you to Mickey, and Mickey was pissed that you were doing. Because this was after she had the conversation with you when she thought she'd already squashed it and said, how dare you. Don't say anything about Jimmy. You should be grateful that I kept you around in the first place. And so Mickey was ex. Mickey was done with you. Mickey was like, the way that she was trying to set up Rachel to be a target, eventually, she was doing that to you that day. The melting pot. She was getting everyone on board. And this did lasting damage to your game because even after you get Mickey back on board, there are still a bunch of people that are still pissed at you and think that there's an open opening to take you out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you talk to Mickey, and this is. This is another thing I like about your game. Because you noticed something is off.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You went and talked to me. You said, what's up? And Mickey tried to deny it, tried to say, everything's fine.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you just. And this is the same thing you did with Lauren when she was like. So I'm sure maybe Adrian and you just sat in that room for like, three hours. And you did the same thing to Mickey here. You would not let her know. Deflect from this conversation. Talk. Talk to me about it.

[A]

No. I remember thinking, I knew that things were off between us. I knew that she was going around stirring things up. She was trying to ice me out in the house. She was doing all those things. All day long. I watched her conversation. I knew that she was going to try to come for me. Like, I could feel it in my bones that Mickey was coming for me. And I just remember thinking, I have to turn it on. I'm going to have to do whatever I have to do, whether it's cry, whether it's. Whatever it is.

[B]

Which you did.

[A]

Which I did. And I also did that with Lauren. I'm. I'm telling you, if you're an actress, do Big Brother, you will do Silver. Because I remember being like, I can use this emotional thing with her, like, because I felt like she had saw me as a sister. And so I was like, I am going to use this sisterly, you know, thing between us and try to guilt trip her into it. And not only that, I'm about to weapon. Weaponize every single piece of information I have. Because if she doesn't trust the other side, she has to come back to me. Whether she likes me or not, she has to come back to me because she will have nobody else. She has to come back to me. And so I remember I cried. I. You know, I'm like, I just. I just love you, and I just don't want us to have, you know, this thing between us. Like, you're like a sister to me. Like, what can I do? And I just remember. I knew she was gonna deny that. I remember thinking, I'm not leaving this room until I feel that we are good. I will not leave this room. Because when people sleep on it and then they have time to talk to other people and other people can get in their heads that are. So I was like, I am not leaving this room until she is confidently back on Team Ashley. Like, whether it's fully, whether it's partially, I need her to be on this meter of me. And so I remember thinking, I'm going to do. That was probably the second time outside of Lauren that I really had to be cutthroat and, like, do whatever I had to do to, like, get myself out of this hole, because I knew I was in a hole. And I just remember thinking, I'm going to say everything. She's going to leave this room. Not trusting Zach and Many if it's the last thing I do. And I don't know if that worked or not, but, yeah, I just remember I'm dropping the seeds. And she was so shocked, and I was shocked that she was shocked about the vote flip. I thought Mickey had a lot more power in the game than she actually did. I thought she knew everything and every corner. Corner of every single situation. And seeing her face, her reaction to it, I knew that she did not know about that booklet.

[B]

And, yeah, she has this reaction that is like, oh, yeah, I thought. I thought they might. Wait. They really did.

[A]

Yes. That was exactly her reaction. She didn't believe it, I don't think. I don't think she fully believed it, which is why I realized, unfortunately, I was gonna have to throw Ava under the bus, because I was like, I need her to believe that this is true.

[B]

Very good that you did. It was incredible timing considering what Ava had just done to you.

[A]

Right. I didn't even know that Ava just did that, so that's crazy. But I remember thinking, I have to throw Eva under the bus because. Sorry. Like, Ava didn't really have power in the game. So I was like, if she's mad at me, oh, well, you know what I mean? I need Mickey to be on my side, because if Mickey is on my side, I'm gonna be okay.

[B]

And. And it did seem to have a significant impact because they had been solidifying as this melting pot. 4. And in the conversation, Mickey's like. Like, man, wow. That. That's good that you did that. I'm looking at Zach different. Like, and it. You know, it took a couple more days for you to, like, fully heal the relationship, but by the end of the week, like, you're back in Locked with Mickey, only Mickey Morgan's still pretty pissed at you. Zach and Vinnie still want you gone. Yes, but. But you've locked Mickey back in. And that, of course, is incredibly clutch when Ava wins the next hoh and says, my three nominees, frankly, are Easy, Keanu, Vinnie, and Ashley. And she's set on that. You'll watch it in the episodes. She is set on it. Mickey's like, no, we can't. We can't do Ashley. And she goes, I'm telling you, we can't do Ashley. And of course, the name she gives is Zach. And I don't think that would have happened if you hadn't extracted that information from Ava to give to Mickey. I don't think she chooses you over Zach by any means, if not for that moment.

[A]

Yeah. Wow. And I Bet they don't even show it in the show. They don't like, I. It's crazy. I'm like, it's just. I. It's just wild. But, you know, it's. It is what it is. At least there's live feeds. Thank God. I mean, people would be like, how the hell do this world with this game? Because that's crazy. That's clutch. I had no idea Ava was coming from my neck like that at all. Like, I can admit it. I misread her. You know, I had no idea. I just knew I didn't fully trust her because. Why did you not tell anyone that people were trying to flip Will.

[B]

If you do tell the cameras that a few times, you're like, I don't know if I trust Ava fully.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I just. Just kept thinking, will, it's your ride. I. Her die. Like, they were extremely close in the house, much closer than me and Will. So I was like, I don't trust Eva because why would you not tell anybody? Like, I just couldn't grasp that. I still don't know. I guess I'll have to ask her. But I didn't understand why she didn't tell anyone. That part didn't make sense to me. And so I remember thinking, well, I can't really trust Ava now, you know, But I definitely didn't think she was coming from my neck as much as she did. And now I'm so glad I told Mickey all that stuff.

[B]

The only other thing that happens before Ava's hoh is p gate.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which is a funny situation, but also, from my estimation, actually a turning point in Rachel and Keanu's relationship, because you do this big argument, and Keanu finds out that Kelly lied about what Rachel said. And that, to me, was, again, a turning point for Keanu where he started to believe in Rachel just a little bit more. Didn't last.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, they tried to. They tried to say it was confirmed that this was Keanu on the show.

[A]

Oh, really? It was Keanu?

[B]

Well, that's what they tried to make it seem like, but it's still unknown at the time the feeders saw the person. Last person the feeds saw on the. On the. The bathroom was Vince. But it's possible that somebody went in, you know, while the. The feeds were down in the morning for music or whatever, so.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

We still don't know for sure, but the show really seemed to imply it was Keanu, and they would know.

[A]

Interesting. Okay.

[B]

Anyway, Ava, as the HOH comes in, this is a funny Thing actually, too, that all of this stuff with Mickey talking Ava out of nominating you happened before the feeds came back back from. From the show, the live show. So when the feast came back, we only saw Ava with Zach, Vinnie, Keanu Nams, and we were like, what happened? She's talking about how she considered Ashley, but she probably just considered Ashley. She wouldn't have actually done. Then we watched the episode. We're like, oh, my God. She was doing Ashley.

[A]

Wow, man. A different game that would have been had she done me. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Boy.

[A]

Actually, but the thing is this. Had she done me next to. And wait, who won the veto that week? I can't remember.

[B]

Oh, Catherine.

[A]

Catherine won the veto. So it would have been me, Vince and Keanu on the block. Oh, I don't know if I would have said. I don't think I would have gone home next events, actually. So that would have been interesting.

[B]

Keanu winning the blockbuster. You versus Vince in that spot. Yeah, I think you were. Yeah, I don't think you stay there.

[A]

No, no. I would have literally only had Mickey, Will, and I don't remember who else is even there.

[B]

Rachel.

[A]

Rachel. Yeah. I would have gone home. That's crazy. It would have been a total different week. Wow.

[B]

Like I said, clutch that you won Mickey back over with that.

[A]

You know what's crazy, though? That would have been so dumb for her game.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Job. Like, it actually would have made no sense at all. So I'm glad they convinced her of that because that actually genuinely would have been dumb game move, honestly, because I was totally still, like, I didn't trust David fully, obviously, as I told her, the cameraman, but I still wasn't going to, like, put her up. I was hoh. So.

[B]

Yeah. So despite the. The tension, despite Mickey wanting, you know, Zach on the block here, she does start to bond back in with him again with this melting pot alliance. Over the course of the week, Keanu also starts to bond with his bros on the block that he's with. And. And Ava starts wanting to renom Morgan because she didn't like, like her nominations. So you get completely off of her radar temporarily, though she still gets mad. Anytime you're included in an alliance conversation, you have a. You have a conversation up with Will and Mickey. You talk about working together. And after you, like, after that conversation, Ava's like, guys, why did. Why did Ashley have to be there? Like, I don't like that Ashley was there and Will and Mickey had to vouch for you. Will. Will in particular really had to vouch for to be like Ava. I trust issues. If you trust. Trust her, then I guess I'll. I'll work with her.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, that's so funny. That is so funny. And you know what, though? It's those moments where it's like, I loved Will, but that was another reason why I trusted Will. But I always knew he was closer that I always knew. So it was like this fine line of, like, I love one Ava, but that was also why I was kind of looking out. I guess I'm fast forwarding, but when it came to the judges, that was one of the reasons why I didn't want to explain. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Will. We sometimes saw him like he was a. He had a little bit of Vinnie in him where, like, he really just agreed with everything anybody said to him.

[A]

Clips.

[B]

I was like, will, listen, listen, folks love Captain Will.

[A]

They do. That's fair.

[B]

But he. He has a whole bit on the show where he's in the diary set saying half the time when people are talking to him, he doesn't listen to a word they say.

[A]

I believe.

[B]

Which explained a lot, actually.

[A]

I actually believe that because there are times he'd be conversing, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100. Yeah. And it's like. But I also knew because I started expressing my doubts about Ava. This might have been, like, going into week six. I don't exactly remember the time frame, but I started expressing my doubts about Ava. And it especially exacerbated week eight. And I remember how hard he was pushing for me to get off Ava. And that was when I knew, because he had tried to say before that he would choose me over Ava. I didn't believe it, but I wanted to believe it. And then it was that week, week eight, for sure, in our conversations, like, how hard he was pushing for me to get off Ava's back. I was like, oh, no. He would choose Ava over me. He would just.

[B]

And she ranted to him about you a couple of times in particular. There was a time you were talking about Lauren being really quiet and indecisive, and Ava crashed out after. After you had that. She was like, how dare she talk about Lauren like that? And did it to. To Will, and he was like, yeah, yeah. How dare she talk about.

[A]

The crazy thing is, you saw the conversations about that Will had about Laura, and he felt the exact same way. Exact same way he thought. Indecisive person he ever met.

[B]

We also skipped over, of course, one of your most iconic moments, the vote for Jimmy. No, no, no.

[A]

You Know what's funny? I didn't even hear her say, no, no, no. I didn't even hear it. I ran in and ran out and thought my vote did not count until 20 minutes later when they pulled me into the diary room. Like, just so you know, your vote did count, but I was like, I already told everyone that it wasn't me, so I just had to stick with it. I remember I stuck with the tears. I was like, I was full on. I remember I was like, if I cry, everybody's going to think, no way. Like she did it. No way she did it. And I remember Morgan actually, I think believed me.

[B]

They all seem to believe you. Yeah. At least initially.

[A]

Yeah. The tears I was like, are going to sell it. I've used tears a lot, obviously talk to so much so tactics.

[B]

Did you accidentally vote that way or was it that because Rachel was pushing hard, like, we have the votes do it. And it's like, well, if I'm wrong, I don't want to screw it up. If she's. If she's right, I don't want to screw it up. Right. But then you go out and talk to Will and he's like, I know, right?

[A]

Right. 100%. I'm telling you, in that moment, she was yelling, you know, she's like, jimmy, we have to. I went in there knowing I was going to vote to make Jimmy. And I'm telling you, in the bright lights, the came lights flashed on me and I'm looking in the camera, I couldn't even think of words like, I can. I. I don't even know what. I was just so, like, flabbergasted, mind you. We were running on, like, no sleep because like, that week was a week I obviously got myself into a lot of shit and so I was like working overtime. I mean, that conversation with Mickey lasted into the wee hours of the night, you know, because I was not leaving until I finished, until I got my mission was accomplished. So I was so tired from that week, I don't even think words can explain. I mean, I think I maybe got four hours of sleep each night that week because I was just in a hole, obviously, after the Renown situation. And so I was so tired and I came in knowing I was going to vote to the Jimmy. And then I didn't. And I don't even think I realized it until I was talking to Will and then I was like. Because he was like, who'd you vote to evict? And I said, kelly. He goes, what? And I was like, oh, My gosh. I think it's so probably my facial reactions. I realized what I had done and I was like, oh, my God. I have to immediately, like, correct it. I don't even know what happened. My brain clocked out. I'm telling you. I must have been playing the odes rule a little too good that I just brain clocked out. Completely messed that up. Didn't even realize I did it. So I'm casually telling him who I voted for and he freaks out. And I was like. And we both had the oh, shit moment at the same time. Ran back in as fast as I could.

[B]

It was amazing. So Ava, hoh. Catherine wins the veto. There's a little bit of back and forth here about whether it will be used, whether Morgan will go up, but. But ultimately it's not going to be used. There's some other stuff here, though. Of course, as you now know, we've been anticipating that there will be a Renam regardless, because we know that Zach has a 10K veto power.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And I said day one, night one. I said, Zach's a long block for jury because he's good socially, he's in a good position, and in the event he ever does touch the block, he's automatically safe. Little did I know.

[A]

I didn't even know about the power until the end of the game. Till the end of the game. Morgan told me, and I had no. Has to be. I can't believe in an interview he called me Dom. You, Zach, if you're watching this, you have to be the dumbest Big brother player of all time. You have a power to stay safe and not use it is insane.

[B]

That's literally what we told him in the interview.

[A]

My gosh. That that was even true. I remember thinking, this is not true when Morgan told me at the end of the game because I was like, who would be dumb enough to not use it? Like, oh, my gosh. I tried to warn him because like I said, I did. Trying to work with Zach. I really trying to work with him. And I tried to warn him and he just didn't want to believe me.

[B]

Yeah. So Rachel has this punishment with Zach. They bond during it. She tries to warn him about Mickey and Morgan. He brings that to Mickey and Morgan without. Without fully ratting Rachel out yet, because he actually does kind of believe her. But. But then Rachel has this interaction with Morgan. She's still kind of like. Because Morgan's now like, is Rachel like, what is Rachel doing? Does she want to try to keep Keanu and She's upset about it. She tries to campaign to keep Vinnie and Zach. This makes Rachel upset. Morgan brings up the jury thing, and then Rachel blows up on her. How, if you think that I'm sitting in this jury, you and your friends. And so this pisses off Morgan. She goes upstairs to. To Mickey and tells Mickey. Mickey's pissed off. And this is the start of the Rachel Mickey war. Morgan talks to Zach about this later, and this is, like, one of the most ridiculous conversations, at least until all of the Vinnie Morgan conversations later in the season. Because Morgan's like, I'm gonna tell you something. When I talked to Rachel today, she said, you and your friends with an S. Friends. What do you think that means, Zach? Who? My friends. She's talking to us. Talking about us, Zach. And she says in a famous live update moment where I lost my mind, she starts talking about you, and she's like, sometimes, you know, you're. You're trusting people that you shouldn't. You know. Who are you talking about? You talk to her all the time, Zach. Who? Who? You talk to her all the time, Zach. Who can just tell me the name? You talk to her all the time, Zach. You talk to her all the time. It's like, what are you, Ashley? Yeah. You talk to her all the time. And so it's this conversation that actually prompts them to have a conversation with you the next morning. Very important conversation where you clear the air with Zach about the votes and all of the stuff that's happened in the season so far. Then you talk with both Zach and Morgan. Clear the air, and this clears you with Morgan. So tell me about this from your perspective, because again, very important moment for you and Morgan is in a relationship.

[A]

Yes. So I was like, this is fabulous, because no matter what, Morgan's gonna lose number Speaker. Sorry, Morgan. Love you. She's gonna lose a number this week is what it's looking like, because I genuinely was like, either Kiana is gonna win the blockbuster, or at that point, Keanu potentially had the votes to stay, because initially, me and Mickey and Rachel and a couple others were. Were going to keep you on it. That was, like, the OG Plan. And so I'm like, you know what? This is an opening to work with Morgan. Like, if I can get Morgan on my side, I'll have one of her numbers, whichever one stays. And also, I can have Morgan as a number moving forward, because at this point, I don't trust Mickey after how Mickey's hoh went, how she moved, like, how she literally barely included Me in, you know, the discussions on who to put up. Obviously we did have discussions on who to put up. And now you're saying she did kind of listen. I think they should listen to me. You know, she went off and did her own thing. So I'm like, okay, I'm not a valuable ally to her. Morgan and Mickey are obviously closer than me. And so I was like, maybe if I start working with Morgan, you know what I'm saying? And maybe Morgan's a better number for me moving forward because Morgan also will have one of the boys. I can have protection from Morgan and one of the boys, whichever stays. So I remember when I talked to Morgan, my goal was to make her feel as comfortable with me as possible, because I was like, I think I can move forward and work with Morgan. Even though we had been at odds, obviously, as you guys saw most of the game at that point, I saw it as a. An opening and a window. And I went back and forth between Zach and Vinnie. And I remember at that point, I believe during this conversation, I was wanting to keep Zach. I think I'm like trying to.

[B]

So you initially wanted to keep Vince and that you wanted Zach to go, but then you did change your mind. You started to change your mind. And I think the conversation you. I mean, I think you were saying you were genuinely 50. 50 by the time.

[A]

Yes. Okay, that. That sounds right. Okay, so I. 50, 50. But I think in this conversation I'm having with Zach and Morgan, I'm like, is that more workable? Like, could this be a thing? Could we have a trio? And then could I have Lauren as a number? Because me and Lauren have also been at odds and not be working together, but Zach and Lauren are close. And so I remember teeter tottering over because I'm like, does Zach have more numbers than Vinny? Like, if Zach, Zach and Lauren were starting to gain a romantic connection that week that he was on the block. And so I'm like, ooh, now she might have an emotional connection with. With Zach, which could make Zach more of a better ally than Vic because there seems more game related. And so I remember the conversation. I was like, you know what? Maybe keeping Zach could be better for my game because if him and Lauren are starting to canoodle, that is an emotional connection. And people always go off emotional connections rather than game, especially men. And I'm like, you know what? I can have Lauren and me and Morgan are close to them. Morgan and me and Morgan are good. She'll control Zach. So I was like, you Know what? Maybe this could be something. But I was always 5050 because I felt like I, after a speech, Vinnie was always going to be a target in the house, which I still was a mini target in the house. So I was like, if he's here, maybe that's better for me. If I'm sitting next to him at this point. I might not go home at that point. Specifically, because I remember doing during Mickey's hoh, Riley started not trusting this. And he had told me sitting down, should he suggest Jimmy and Vince to go up on the block as a renown because he was doing anything to try to keep his baby Catherine off that block. And so, yeah, I remember that conversation just thinking, I need Morgan to trust me. I need to spill whatever tea Zach has given me and imply, without outwardly saying it, just kind of plant little seeds about Zach and my one on one with Morgan. So that way it brings doubt with Zach and brings Morgan closer to me, which obviously, like, did. It did work. And after that, me and Morgan had a great relationship. I mean, literally, she realized the talkative rumor was just a rumor, obviously. And no information she ever said ever got out again. Because at that point, obviously in the beginning of the game, I was being messy on purpose because I'm like, I have nothing to lose. You know, at that point, I didn't see it as that at least I was like, I'm already a target in the house. If I can at least cause some discourse with these people and, you know, get them broken up, then I have an opening. And so that's why, if you saw the first half of the game, I played a lot more messy than the second half. Just because by the middle of the game, I started being okay. I started, like having my allies and, like being okay. People weren't looking at me as much. But the beginning of the game, obviously every week, people were looking at me mean. So I'm like, I have nothing. I just saw this. I have nothing to lose. But to try to cause drama with these people and have discourse and, you know, cut their, cut their allies.

[B]

I think that's a great mindset. Like, I, I want to impress it upon the audience just how difficult it is to get out of the situation you were in. We talk about this a lot with Taylor, obviously, because she's like the epitome of it. But, but to be a woman a week one nominee is really, really tough, especially if you're a week one target. And very few week one nominees have gone on to win the game. Steve Moses One of them, Taylor, one of them. They're the only two in the U.S. now you. And so, you know, it's. It's a very difficult thing to climb out of that. And you really do kind of have to play for broke. And a lot of players do, and they're just not good at it. A lot of players, like, just lie down and. And hope to get carried as far as they can can and find themselves completely out of Runway. You managed to strike that balance, and it did get you in trouble sometimes. You always manage to get yourself out of it. And so it's at this point and heading into next week, which we'll talk about in detail, that, like, you really start to come into your own in terms of, like, the power you have. And it, and it starts with this connection with Morgan. Um, and there's some good stuff here.

[A]

Here.

[B]

Yes. So you did try to warn Zach that he wasn't safe. You didn't know at the time that he could have done something about it. You're literally one of the last conversations he has before he goes to decide in the diary room.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Still chooses not to stop. You literally said, it's 5050 Zach. And he went in and said, I'm good. I'm not gonna use it.

[A]

Stop.

[B]

And then afterward, he talks to Mickey and he's like, do I have the votes? And she's like, I don't think so. And he cries, oh, my God.

[A]

My gosh. Wait, so when was the last point that he could use the power?

[B]

I. I believe he had to choose in the diary room. Or. I mean, theoretically he could have said it in the ceremony, maybe, but I, I think he. I think he went in and told them, I'm not using it.

[A]

Okay. Before the Renam.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. And he had all that time and still didn't. Gosh.

[B]

He said afterward, both to Morgan and to us interviewers, that he did it to keep Morgan off the block, to protect Morgan. That's what he said. Part of we. We suspected that he was really. Because he was really pissed at Ava, that, like the fact that he would have had to give the 10k to AVA if he used it, might have been a part of it.

[A]

I think that's. I could see that he hated Ava after that moment. After he put her up, he complained non stop to me about Ava. So I, I believe it was more of that than Morgan because at the time he was seats about Morgan, even to me. Like, he said, Morgan's playing really hard. And, you know, all of Those things. And so. And he would have chosen Lauren over Morgan as well. So I think about Ava, and you.

[B]

Mentioned Lauren because you were all confused about Lauren's vote. Lauren was always voting for Vinnie. Never once considered voting for Zach. She was locked in with Vinnie. She was not with Zach.

[A]

No way. Oh, my gosh. I genuinely thought she wanted to keep Zach.

[B]

No. Wow. They really were like the secret duo, even though they weren't that secret of the game because even though people clocked it, they. They really thought that she'd be closer with Zach, and she. She just wasn't.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And now you. Now you understand why she was even more betrayed by.

[A]

She should be betrayed. Oh, my gosh. Wow.

[B]

Couple other things happen here. Rachel tries to expose the heavy hitters to Kelly and Keanu to try to turn them on Vince. It doesn't work. Keanu goes to Vince with it. Vince then goes to Mickey. Mickey's now even more pissed at Rachel. However, Zach actually does get the votes to stay briefly, when he tells Morgan about his power, he. He tells her, I didn't. I had this power. I didn't use it to protect you. She's like, oh, my God. Like, I can't send this man home. She encourages him to tell Mickey about the power. He does. And then Mickey's like, wow, we should send him home.

[A]

Though.

[B]

Mickey had a couple of reasons. One, she didn't like the fact that he had the power. It's. It's a bad thing that she had that he has this power for Mickey. And number two, Rachel's gunning for Vince. Rachel's not gunning for Zach. And Rachel is now her next target. And so she wants to keep Vinnie in the game so that Rachel will target him. And she spends. She literally. And you know this. She does one on ones with people on the final day of her hoh. Prep everyone to target Rachel in the next week.

[A]

Yeah, and I remember Vinnie goes, I have a ticket in line. Line for Mickey's line or whatever on Ava's hoh. I was like, bingo.

[B]

I. I literally just called it her hoh. But yes, it was Avis.

[A]

No, literally, it was Mickey's hoh, basically, damn near. Which, thank God, I guess, because otherwise I would have gone on the block and probably gone. I don't remember what the veto was that week. I don't know how good I would have been at Skeeter Ball, but considering how I did in White Locust, not very good at the Skeeter Ball things. So. Actually, you know what, though? I did you good on the double eviction ball thing? So I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. But all I know is I would have been in trouble about.

[B]

Yeah. So Zach ends up evicted 8 to 2. Rachel does lie about her vote here.

[A]

She was lying. Oh, my gosh. Her face. Oh, my gosh. I was like, rachel, why she lying to me? And that was what. I had, like a tussle back and forth in my head about Rachel because there were things that I knew she was lying about that she would lie. And I'm like, like, there was one thing.

[B]

I don't know if I think you might have known a little bit about this. Keanu, last day, the day of the eviction, was planning to throw the blockbuster.

[A]

Keanu was planning on throwing the block.

[B]

He was planning to throw the blockbuster in order to protect his bros, Zach and Vinnie, or sorry, specifically to protect his bros, Vince, so that they could take out Zach. And Rachel had to beg him, please do not do that. And he was like, rachel, you don't understand strategy. She was like, if you do that, you will go home. And so we went into that night not knowing if he was going to throw. She was like, how would you even know who to throw it to? And he's like, I'll stand at the buzzer and wait. And so he walked casually up to the buzzer and we're like, oh, my God, is he gonna throw?

[A]

He didn't. Oh, Keanu. Oh, Keanu. At least though, I feel better that he's watching the show back and realizing how wrong he is. So he is watching it back and he's like, oopsies.

[B]

The amount of times I thought I was going to do an interview with that man and explain to him.

[A]

Which is good for him. Which is good for him.

[B]

Okay, so we get to week six. Rachel wins hoh. And I. I have a little montage. This is one of the longer clips I have, but it's. It's some of your best work, in my opinion.

[A]

Oh, great.

[B]

I'm sorry to the audio listeners. I have subtitles here. This is you pitching Riley to Rachel the night she wins hoh.

[A]

We all know who he goes on next to. Catherine. She goes home. Warner.

[B]

Vinny will never go to this morning, the Prophet.

[A]

Morgan and Vince are like pressuring Lauren to use the veto. Are you sure? Yes, I'm positive. And now Lauren's gonna use the veto. I have to put a beren on. And it's one o' clock and everyone's asleep. Do you think she be upset with me? No, I think she feels in her gut she wants to use it. Last question. If Vinley is desir then that's your decision. That's your answer of what you have to do. I think I should use it. If that's what your friend is telling you, that's what you have to do. Honestly, if I'm going to do it, I'm just going to blow the house up. Do you think anybody else would think of it in a bad way if I used it? No. I think most people thought you might as your decision stand on a girl. Okay. You know. Yeah. It's a big problem. Oh, you just didn't even. I just know I have to say whatever I have to say so that the right person goes up. Cuz she asked for my opinion. Yeah. That'd be the only person that you could do in this house. I gave an opinion and she might do it. Rachel, since I have just vetoed one of your nominees nominations for eviction you will have to name a new houseguest as replacement nominee. Riley, take a seat. Oh so happy.

[B]

So this is the discussion about the.

[A]

One of my main moves was when Zach left week five. I saw an opening with Morgan and Vinnie to attach myself to Plus I think about Morgan she's more valuable will count outside which means we get Vince. I'm so confused about Vince. Oh, you have to send me this. I have. They are but he's not powerful.

[B]

No.

[A]

I realize he's not calling any of the shots at all. Or gets her and he listens to everything she says. We only need four at this week. I know, I know. That's the point I was sleeping on and I was like oh my God. I was trying to find find a reason that's game related. Definitely aunt Rachel. That's why definitely. I'm Rick. Yeah, 100%. That's why I'm strong.

[B]

I know we gotta think about this.

[A]

I know. I heard my mom's voice. I like how to treat and dude. Morgan, Rachel, Vince, Kim pick em all. I know those longest Morgans here were fine with try me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which that's huge. We need to talk to Rachel. The judges stemmed from me being able to convince Rachel why Morgan was valuable asset in the game. Rachel did not want to keep Morgan that week. The person. I know. I know you just blew up with her but like I know Morgan's noms and you're not in I don't know. Or we could be the judges cuz we decide who goes home. That's some savage. I Like that Savage. Morgan. Thank you.

[B]

Wait, do we like that? America? Morgan, you are safe. Riley, you are evicted from the Big Brother house.

[A]

I didn't realize how dang me like trying to find a serious. Couldn't find one. Everyone's crying. I'm just there. Oh, my gosh. That was X. Oh, you have to send me that clip. Oh, I have to send that. All the haters, right?

[B]

I just listen, I spent a lot of time making gosh, I have a whole like 16 minute or 17 minute long thing that I made.

[A]

This is how they could have shown me on the show, but yet they didn't. You know what I'm saying? We're not even a professional editor. And you figured out how to get my edit right? Like production step up.

[B]

Yeah. So just to explain what was in that clip for people that were maybe listening, I apologize again. Again. But watch the video. It's very good stuff. So you initially pitch Riley. Riley is your target and you somehow see the vision before anybody else, audience included. The only way to take Riley out is on the block against Morgan. Of course she doesn't take your advice. It's a whole thing. Then the veto happens. You secretly encourage Lauren to use it while Rachel complains that Lauren's going to use it. Like, man. Yeah, nothing can be done. And encourage Ray. Rachel again continuing to push the idea that Riley needs to go and that he's the only option for the Renam. She makes the renam. And you then also have the vision. And you say this in your speech. And I don't think people believed it, but it's. It's there on the feeds. You say, now that Zach is gone, Morgan is more valuable to us. You say with Riley gone, if Riley leaves, Morgan will win hohs again or start to win hohs, which is good for us. Vinnie does everything Morgan tells him to. You knew this before we did. And if. If we keep Morgan, then we have Vinnie. So we're good on that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You introduced the idea of this, like, let's bring these people together. Let's keep Morgan in the game. Let's take out Riley and it all comes together and it happens. We'll go over some of the details, but, I mean, this is excellent work in my opinion.

[A]

Thank you. I'm like watching it back. I'm like, now this is the edit I thought I would get. Meanwhile, I'm like, I'm getting this terrible edit. But no, I remember all those things. All those things I remember vividly just because those were some of my, like, trinkets of things that I was, like, carrying with me throughout the game. Because obviously you're thinking about, okay, if I make it to the end, you know, what are some things that I've done? And I remember that specifically. Like, I remember kind of puppeteering Morgan and Will in the sense where Morgan told me information about Will that had to do with Mickey. And I ran it right back to Will and was like, did you know that Mickey said this, this. This turn Will against Mickey? Because I knew there was no way in hell Will was ever going to turn against Mickey unless he had concrete information. And I knew that even though we'll trusted me, hearing it, for me is one thing, but hearing it straight from the source is another. And I know Morgan did not want to tell. Well, she was like, I don't want to tell him. I'm scared. Whatever. I remember pushing her, like, you need to tell. Well, like, holding her hand through it, and then she tells Will, and then that's when everything blows up. And as you see all these conversations start to start the next week. But, yeah, I just remember Zach leaving. I was like, wait, this is amazing for my game. Not only is Vinnie a huge target in the house, and he'll go on the block week after week, which he literally went on the block immediately that week after that on Rachel's hoh, but I also was like, you know, I can now have control over Vinny because now that Morgan's starting to trust me and I'm building trust with Morgan, Morgan is going to make sure Vinnie gets in line on the Ashley train. Like, I saw that Morgan was running. I even. I think you even showed clips of me, like, week two being like, vinny's not the power player. It's Morgan. And so I knew if I had Morgan on my side, I would always have any. Like, even if me and Vinnie don't like each other, he's going to do whatever Morgan tells him to do.

[B]

And genuinely, the soul read of the season, like, like, just read him down. Like you knew exactly who he was. And exactly, exactly. Like, nobody saw that coming. Like, nobody outside of the house saw that coming. And you saw it coming.

[A]

Oh, wow. Okay. Well, that. Didn't know.

[B]

I didn't know that coming eventually, but, like, not at the time that you did. And what I will tell you is the journey to get there is maybe a little rockier than you might think. But you were right on the end.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I was right in the end. But I felt like, you know, my guts telling me he's gonna do Whatever Morgan wants him to do. Morgan's probably one of the prettiest girls he's probably ever been around in his life. And, you know, Kelsey's very beautiful, though. Don, get me wrong. Kelsey is very beautiful, but clearly this man is coming into this house seeing something else. Because the way that they were acting, I peeped it starting, like, was it end of week four, going into week five, I peeped the relationship between Morgan and Vinny because I felt that Lauren and Zach's relationship started to bloom. And so Morgan started turning elsewhere, and it was to Vinnie. They started having longer talks. They started hanging out on the hammock. And so I noticed all these things happening, and I'm like, okay, Vinnie definitely has. Has a crush on Morgan. Like, so if Vinnie has a crush. Men think with their emotions, not strategic. Typically in life. Typically in life, men are the more. You know what I mean? They. They think with their other thing, you know, not their brain. And so I'm like, okay, I have.

[B]

A shirt from Tiffany that says that.

[A]

Wait, really? That's hilarious. Oh, I love Tiffany, by the way. But, yeah, I just think I just saw that happening. And so I was like. Like, you know, this is an opening. Not only did I want really what Morgan to say, but I was also to the point where I was like, if Morgan next to Mickey, Morgan is more valuable to keep. Two is better than one. And they are a duo. They're strong duo. And not only that, they're a shield for all the other duos, which were at the time, Will and Ava, me and Rachel. So I was like, not only do they have the shield thing going on, but we can also have control. And Vinnie. Vinnie has an ear for Keanu. So I'm like, ooh, not only will we get Morgan and Vinnie, but we'll also know information about Keanu with Kianis, you know what I'm saying? Because wanna invent at the time were also kind of this duo. And so I started seeing. I'm like, wait, there is value in this happening. And then that's when I was like, this video needs to be used. I don't care who it's used on. If it's used on Vince, even better. Because if it's used on Vince, Morgan has to stay because Vince is only valuable in this game with Morgan here. If. If it's Morgan, Mickey. Sorry, Mickey. But Mickey's got to go. Because then I have Vince, Lauren, Keanu, all people. I have no control, no ear, no nothing, no connection, no relationship with. And so that was when I Was like, if I can get this video used. I realized very quickly the veto was only going to be used on this. It was quite obvious Lauren was never going to use veto. I'm Morgan to make it. So I'm like, if this veto is used, it's going to force Rachel's hand to put up a bigger target. And not only can we hopefully keep Morgan safe, but maybe Mickey too. Because at the time, although me and Mickey were at odds, I still saw her as a number in this game. Game. And our numbers were like you said in the game, it was teeter tottering. It could have gone either which way between this side and this side of the house. And so I was like, you know what? This is a chance to get a strong head out on the other game. The numbers are going down. It was only four votes to stay. Catherine and Riley will control who stays in, who goes week after week after that with only four and then three. Like, that is so bad. And so I remember being like, they got to go. I got to do what I got to do. I sorry, Rachel. You don't want this video be used. This video gotta get used.

[B]

Lauren was trying to solidify that group as well at that time. Like, I. And like I was like, I'm. I'm sorry everyone, but Riley might be about to become the front runner.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

And people like, that's. That can't be true. And it was like, I'm sorry, but like, yeah, look at, look at what's happening. Keanu was devoted to Riley more than he's devoted to Vince and he's got Lauren and he's got Kelly devoted to him more than she is to Vince because she's not even devoted to Vince anymore.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And. And he has this whole army and it felt impossible to even take him out. And you managed to find the vent on the Death Star and, and it was, it was tricky. So, okay, so let's, let's talk through some of the details. The nominations happen. You're not happy about the nominations because you wanted Riley on the block. We've talked about some of your. Your greatest moments. We now must talk about the toilet paper.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I was watching this.

[A]

I'm afraid they don't include this, but I figured it probably would because it was such like Mia, Rachel were gagged when that happened. Like we had a 40 minute plus conversation. Like, I don't think it's the full time 40 plus minute conversation. And neither of us noticed that. Neither was noticed it.

[B]

I was live on Twitch watching The feeds to. To my audience. And while this happened, and I was like, what is that? Is that I lost my mind.

[A]

I cannot believe it. Okay, I am a germaphobe, as you probably heard throughout the house. And so I put toilet paper down on the toilet, like, lots of it. Before I sit down on the toilet, whether I eat anything, I am what.

[B]

Happens a couple more times.

[A]

I know it happened multiple times. Multiple times, because I'm telling you, I refuse to sit on that dirty toilet and there was wipes in the room to, like, clean the toilet. And I'm like, I'm not gonna squat in a house where I have to be in every single day. That's something you do at. Like, if you go to the grocery store bathroom or whatever. You know what I mean? But every day squatting, like, five times a day is just ridiculous. Ridiculous at that point. And so, yeah, I would put toilet paper down, and I guess every time I got up, it would just, like. So just to clarify, everyone, it was a toy paper I sat on the toilet, not toilet paper. I went with. Just to be clear.

[B]

So Rachel, of course, does nominate Morgan, Mickey, and Vinnie. Again, you're not a fan of this. You try to talk Rachel out of it. You try to talk Rachel into changing her mind, which she see she does seem open to, although she does get annoyed with you with how much you're pushing. And Ava complains to her about you as well, which doesn't help. And. And in the meantime, Morgan is convinced that Lauren ratted her out to. To Rachel. She eventually comes to the conclusion that that didn't happen, but she's ranting to Vinnie about it. And. And this is important for you to know because Vinnie will say, and he does often, like, why couldn't they just get on the same page? You know, like, there should be. Because he never made the smallest attempt. Morgan would rant to him about loan. He's like, yeah, you're right. She does kind of suck, doesn't she? And then. And then Morgan would rant about Lauren. He'd be like, yeah, she does. Like. And it's just like, look, what are you and Lauren be like? Morgan has to go, Vince. And he'd be like, I know. I know she does. And it's like, that's not how you get two people to work with each other. Because. And then after all of it, he's like, when. When push comes to shove, and it's like, do it. He's like, oh, but I don't want to. She's not coming for you.

[A]

Silly. And that was a point. Towards the end of the game, I started pushing on to Morgan. I was like, listen, everybody knows. So Vinnie saying that. Don't believe him. Don't believe him. Because if everybody else knows, he knows, which means he likes it. He likes that you guys don't get along. Why do you think that is, Maureen? Oh, because he wants to take Lauren to the end. Like, I definitely dug my nails into that because I. I knew that Vinnie knew that they didn't like each other because Ava basically had told me that Lauren didn't like Morgan, you know, so he was silly. I think he liked that those girls were going at it, though, because I think it made him. You know what I'm saying? Like what I made him feel. Man 2. He's like, okay, I'll never be a target. You know what I'm saying? If these two are going after each other, it didn't make.

[B]

It's a trap that some players do fall into. They think that if two people are fighting over them, it puts them in a good position, but it actually does the opposite because you want to keep those two people around for as long as possible.

[A]

That's why it confused me, because I'm like, really? It's great for a game if they're both here. They're a number for you to stay anytime you touch the block. But he just didn't seem. I don't understand, to be a super fan. There were some moves in his game, especially towards the second half of the game, that I just truly didn't understand because he played a great first few weeks. He really did. I give him his flowers on that. He really positioned himself quite well in the house. He had protection from Kelly, Keanu, Morgan, Lauren. Like, I mean, he was gardening, that's for sure. And it just all went downhill. I just started not understanding his strategies, honestly, quite frankly.

[B]

But, yeah, so Lauren does hold the veto. She wins the veto. She's actually pretty reluctant to use it at first. She actually basically, basically tells Vince no and. But he keeps pushing. And there's a very funny situation that happens where Keanu is involved because Rachel's trying to get like, you're actually Keanu. He can't. She can't use the veto's. Like, I know. I know. I'm. I'm down for that. He tries to convince Lauren to not use it. He tells Lauren, you know, just think for yourself. You know, don't let anybody tell. Look out for the people that tell you to do what you want. And don't Try to push an agenda. And then he goes to Vince and he says, I told her to look out for the people that don't push an agenda. So don't push an agenda with her. Tell her to do what she wants. And then she.

[A]

He's so silly.

[B]

And then Vince says, yeah, so Keanu is trying to get me to do this thing. She's like, I knew he was being weird and. And so that did not help, but. But ultimately he starts to wear Lauren down. You get in there, start pushing. Weirdly, Riley is one of the only. Basically nobody in this house was. Wants the veto to be used except for Vince, you, and Riley.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Catherine's trying to tell her no, but Riley's like, nah, you do it. Just do it.

[A]

Who did he think was gonna go up instead?

[B]

Kelly.

[A]

Oh, my God, she's so silly.

[B]

For as much as Kelly was devoted to him, he also didn't like Kelly. He goes off on a rant about you, Kelly and Keanu and how he's going to take all of you out.

[A]

Yes, that I believe. Yeah, I saw right through it. The Kelly thing especially. I felt like I knew verbally he didn't really like Keanu because he said that all around the house. As you probably saw many times. As far as game wise, he did not want to work with him, but Kelly would just. She had a. I want to say she had a crush on Riley, but I mean, there was one time she changed in her song in front of him and I was.

[B]

You guys talked about it.

[A]

A lot is going on. On. I don't know what is going on.

[B]

So. Yeah, actually the one of one of their worst fights was because he was mad at Catherine for talking to you, that she shouldn't be wasting her time or associating herself with people like you or K. Yeah, stop.

[A]

That's so funny. Oh, my God. But. And I'm glad I pushed for him to get out.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Morgan has a very funny pitch to Lauren. I don't know if you've seen. You've heard about this yet. She tells Lauren during the day, hey, I want to talk to you later tonight. And you know, bring some tissues and stuff. Maybe some ice cream because you got to get ready to cry and looks like. Okay. And so she brings her up in the boxing gym and she's like, so, something I need to tell you. It's really. It's really emotional. It's really hard.

[A]

I'm putting.

[B]

Zach had a power. He could have saved himself and he chose not to to protect me. And Lauren, she's, like, expecting. She's like, it's really sad, right? And Lauren's just like.

[A]

She's confused.

[B]

Lauren has, like, no idea how to react. She doesn't think it's true. She ends up telling Vinnie later or. No, she doesn't up telling me. Morgan tells me later.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it's just. It's very funny. She's never. She was never gonna use it on Morgan. She was always, ever, only ever gonna use it on.

[A]

Yeah, never. I don't even think Lauren ever liked Morgan, to be honest. That's the vibe I got very early on, is that they were kind of.

[B]

Pitted against each other.

[A]

Yeah. No, fair enough. No, literally fair enough. Yeah. I was like, lauren does not trust Morgan. I could see right through that. I mean. Yeah.

[B]

So Lauren goes back to Rachel and says, I might. Might use it now. Rachel's like, don't. She finds both Morgan and Vinnie talking to Lauren in the storage room. She goes off on them. They're pressuring her. She talks to you. That's the clip we saw you. You do a little bit of two facing. Oh, man. I don't think there's anything gonna be done. I think your gut's telling her to do it. Hey, Lauren, you should do it. Think about it. Would it hurt. Hurt your game if Finney left? Yes. Then. Then that's what your gut's telling you.

[A]

Me, like, spoon feeding her? Exactly.

[B]

She does. Rachel does tell Keanu that Riley might go up if the veto is used. She does tell Lauren Riley will go up if the veto is used. There's a whole bunch of morning shenanigans where I don't. The episode doesn't even do this justice where Lauren is trying to tell Rachel she's gonna use it. And Rachel's pushing back hard, like, I really want to work with you, Lauren, but if you do this, then we can't work together. And Lauren's like, oh. And at one point, Lauren's like, they're. Because they're getting ready for the ceremony. And. And Lauren's like, I. I don't. I. I don't have my moisturizer. I'll be. And Rachel's like, I have some right here. She's like, no, I just need to go get.

[A]

I'll.

[B]

I'll be right back. And she runs out of the room. She runs downstairs to Vinnie. Vinnie. I don't know what she's saying. She's gonna put up Riley and I. I don't know. And Vinnie's like, she's bluffing. She's bluffing. She's not going to really be mad at you. She's not going to do that. And she's like, I don't know what to do. Oh, my God. I hear her. She's coming. We need to leave. She come, she comes back. And then I swear to you, she stands there and says, okay, so five minutes.

[A]

Stop.

[B]

I'm telling you, it was like five minutes finally, like.

[A]

So I think I'm gonna.

[B]

I think I'm gonna use it. She's like, that's a mistake.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I love Lauren as a person, but casting wise, I genuinely was question marked the entire game. I was like, how? How?

[B]

When I have asked the same question. She seems. She seems for the most part like a sweetheart, but sweetest girl. Yeah, girl.

[A]

Everything else, question mark. Question mark. I just, I mean, she could not make a decision to save her life. She only made decisions off of other people. To be so good at competitions. She never knew moves to make. Like she. She wasted hoh is in my opinion. I'm sorry. On. On bad news. Got easily influenced by people. I'm sorry. Taking Will out, like, I didn't really that. But I also felt like, you know, maybe she wanted to get closer to Ava was my thought. So I was like, maybe she didn't care that Will left because that means that she.

[B]

She really wanted Keanu Morgan. Well, I mean, we'll talk about it, but yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, yes, I really did feel like she wanted Morgan out. I felt like that was her number one target. And I felt like my gut told me Keanu was her number two because if she took Morgan out, she could be the closest with Vince. But I just. I don't know why she stacked the block in the first place. You should stack the block so that way, no matter what, somebody pretty strong is going home. She knew. I tried to plant the seed about Ava to Ava about Vince and Morgan wanting to put her, you know, trying to get her up on Keanu's HOH to try to get some distrust with her and Vinnie. And it just didn't. She just loved her some Vinnie. What can I say? Vinnie had some effect on these women.

[B]

Will called him a pimp in the jury house.

[A]

Sounds right. Sounds right.

[B]

Riley goes up on the block. Block. Keanu is pissed. He is so upset with Rachel because they've been really bonding during her hoh. Kelly is pissed that she didn't go on the block instead. And Riley and Catherine, of course, pissed. There's a whole big drama about did Lauren know That Riley was the renom. She's claiming she didn't, but she did. She eventually, I don't know if you know this, she eventually admits it to Catherine and Riley who were like, like upset but didn't blame her too much at the end. And so, so here's the thing. The votes were not there and you kind of knew this because you were informed by, by Will that, that Ava was not there. Ava was a vote for. Ava loved Riley. Riley loved Riley and was absolutely a vote for Riley to stay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Vince was at one point also a vote for Riley to stay. Seemingly Morgan even over. That's what it seemed like. We'll talk, we'll talk about some of the specifics. And then also. And you, you eventually found this out. Mickey herself was looking real iffy.

[A]

Yes. About the vote.

[B]

Because she also loved Riley.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she wanted Riley to go after to Rachel for them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I guarantee you this vote would not have gone through without the judges being created.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Not even close. We, even with the judges being created, we didn't think it was going to happen. So we showed this. You talked to Will, you both split up. You talked to Rachel, he talked to Morgan. Morgan brings in Vinnie. You make the judges. This gives Vince extra incentive to keep Morgan, which he needed because he was promising the world, as he does, as he does to Riley, that he would was going to vote to keep him. The thing you have to remember is he was more loyal to Lauren than he was to Morgan, at least at this time. I mean really in general he wanted like he was theoretically more loyal to Lauren than he was to Morgan. I think strategically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then the heart felt different.

[A]

The heart felt differently.

[B]

So he didn't want to betray Lauren and take out Riley. They were talking about creating a whole side side with Riley and everything. So he was really unsure about what to do with the vote. He talks to Ava about it and they were both really undecided, Rachel and Will. And you start pushing hard. Rachel and Will in particular have more sway with Ava. And Ava basically tells Will, I would not even consider this if not for you. If I, if, if I vote for Riley to go, it's only because of you. And Vince tries to warn Lauren like hey, I'm, I might have to keep Morgan. And she's like, that's a really bad, bad idea, Vince. And so, and Vince is, is actually kind of annoyed with Morgan because of this whole judges situation. He's like, I don't want to work with these people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she's like no, this is good. I'm telling you. She tells him about Zach's power, he doesn't believe it, and he's just praying that Riley wins the blockbuster so that he doesn't have to make a decision. But even as much as. So he talks to Ava, and they go back and forth and back and forth for hours about what they're going to do with this vote, because the two of them together seemingly swing this vote. But remember, to us, Mickey's not even locked in for this vote. That's going to matter. They decide. All right, you know what? We can't make a decision. It's too close. Let's just make a gut call after the blockbuster happens if we need to make the decision.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

They were not even decided. And it seemed, though, as though the morning of Vince was starting to lean more in the direction of. Toward Riley. He even went as far as to go to Morgan and say, morgan, if I were to vote you out, would we still be friends? And she was like, well, yeah. I mean, not if you did tonight. You, like, blindsided me, but.

[A]

Oh, so she thought he was talking about the future.

[B]

Yep. And. And maybe it was because of that. Who knows? But of course, he does end up voting for Riley to go, as does Ava. They both make that call, seemingly in the moment. Mickey also pulls three. And so we were convinced this was not going to happen because it required Mickey to win the blockbuster, because Mickey would go home over Riley for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then it would require Mickey to actually pull through with the vote, which we weren't sure she would. And then it would also require both Ava and Vince to come through and vote out Riley. It seems seemed impossible. And Ava got into that diary room to cast her vote and started to mouth the word Morgan, stop. I'm gonna show you. This is me reacting in real time. I don't have the video of the vote, but this is me reacting to Ava in the diary room as she starts to say Morgan, then falters.

[A]

That is.

[B]

Oh, my God. No way.

[A]

Okay. That's, like, my reaction when the votes went through and they were like, riley's evicted. I was like, oh, my gosh. Thank you, Jesus.

[B]

It was actually an unbelievable set of circumstances. And everyone was. Was, like, cheering. Like, everyone was out of their seats. This was an incredible moment.

[A]

My gosh, I love that. I love that. And that's exactly how I felt when they said. Because they said. They first said Morgan, and I was like, no, who flipped? And I honestly, 100%, I thought it was going to be Vinnie who flipped? Because Vinnie was very. Like, I just didn't. Like I said, I never trusted the whole game. And his face, like, he just looked like he was in pain. I was like, did he vote to get Morgan? Like, but he was in pain because he was really thinking about it, I guess.

[B]

Yeah. And he was. He had been promising Keanu and Riley and Catherine, all of them, right up until. Until it happened, because that's what he does. So Riley leaves five to four. You go. You guys get up on the wall. Morgan's been talking about the wall comp.

[A]

All I know the whole season, and seconds after me falls.

[B]

Doesn't pan out super well. Also doesn't pan out for you. You. You hurt yourself on the dismount.

[A]

Oh, wait, me? Morgan. Morgan.

[B]

Morgan also hurt herself. I thought you also hurt yourself.

[A]

Oh, I hurt myself the last. The hoh. The. The.

[B]

Oh, the other one.

[A]

That's the one I hurt myself on. Bad, actually. Bad. I almost had a concussion.

[B]

Right. So either way, you did pretty well on the wall. But it comes down to Vincent. Catherine. She refuses to make a deal with him, even though he's clearly gonna win.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Vince is the new ho. Definitely needed it.

[A]

Yep. Definitely needed it. Catherine was gonna put him up, right?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Okay, good. Who were her dogs, actually, that week? I assume.

[B]

Catherine had won that. It likely would have been Vinnie. You probably would have been up there. And maybe Rachel.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I thought is my guess.

[B]

Maybe Mickey, maybe Morgan.

[A]

Maybe Morgan. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. That'd be my guess.

[A]

That. That adds up. That tracks.

[B]

Okay, so. And what I will say is Lauren would have been in her ear to. To say no. No to Vinnie. So maybe that would have helped, you know, who knows? Who knows? But certainly he couldn't take that risk. He wants to target Mickey here. Keanu is pressing him hard, though, to nominate you and Rachel. Rachel. This comes out of sort of out of nowhere because, again, he'd been working closely with Rachel, but he was pissed about Riley. The show kind of tries to edit it to be, like, out of nowhere. He realizes that Rachel will win in a final two, and therefore he needs to turn on her. Yeah, but, like, the more obvious reason would be she just put up Riley, who he thought was his number one. And despite her trying to tell him Riley was not your friend, he won't believe it. He's like. He just won't believe it. What's funny is Vinnie then uses that. And you know this. He uses that as a reason to Keanu right before he makes the vote and then afterward, like, Riley really was coming for you. And. And when Vince says it, he's like, wow, is it true?

[A]

Oh, wow. He believed. I had been telling him all week. So did Rachel, and. Oh, my gosh, he would not listen. He would not listen. I told him multiple times that Riley was coming for him and Because I was trying to not sway his vote, but I was like, you know, maybe if there's a potential I could flip Keanu, then more. Morgan for sure stays. And he just didn't believe it. He didn't want to believe it. Everybody could tell him in God's green earth that what was happening and he would not believe it. Unless Vince. I don't know. Vince had just some effect on Keanu and Lawrence specifically. I don't know. Like, it's very strange.

[B]

Yeah. So he does. He does promise Catherine. He promises Keanu he's gonna put you up. He's going to do these things right up until the ceremony where he doesn't. And. And so they're upset again. And. And Morgan is like, vince, you can't go against the. We're an alliance. We're an alliance. And he's just hoping, as he always does, promising everyone everything, hoping that he hits, like, the half court shot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, if I just land the Mickey target without having to do anything else, nobody has to know where my cards are. And of course, this doesn't work because Mickey wins the veto. And you later point out to Keanu that it was bad strategy to not pick her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And give her a buy round. And he says, she doesn't know anything.

[A]

I don't know anything. And you know. Yeah.

[B]

It's the fact that he always turns to Vince to say it that really, really is the biggest trigger, the hilarious part.

[A]

And then just sits there.

[B]

This is when you tell the cameras that you studied El woods. And. And I would say by this point, we were talking about you as a strategic player. I think early on I called you one of the best strategic players in the house because you just had the right reads, but you were struggling socially that you just, you know, like, you know, I know. And I think. I think it's at this point because even I was not clocking, like, all of the things that you were doing. It was. And let me tell you, it was a tough season to track. There was no set structure. It was so messy. But. But it was at this point that people really started to be like, oh, clicking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Studied Elle, Woods, Ashley, and you certainly had lots of fans before. Before that. As well, but I think it started to go mainstream in the feed community, at least around this time, because it was good. It was a good cam talk. Good stuff.

[A]

Thanks. I just remember I was venting because I was literally like, I can't. I don't remember who I was even talking to. I just remember being like. It was so painful to play dumb. That whole conversation, whatever conversation was right before was, like, painting me, like, deep in my soul. I was, like, in pain, trying to pretend this act. I remember. I just. Like, it is exhausting to play down. Like, I generally just had to rant because obviously I couldn't rant to anyone in the house about it, but I was just exhausted. Like, it was exhausting also having people talk down on me to my face. Kiana was one. Mickey was one. You know, I mean, they would just literally, to my face, it's one thing. People do it behind your back, but it was straight quite literally to my face. I don't know what's going on. I don't know anything. Da, da, da, da. I'm wrong about this and this and this. I'm just like. Because I said I'd come into the game and I'd be fine with ego stroking, because I do that in my career. You know, I work with a lot of, you know, power attorneys or partners who think they know, you know, this, this, and this. And you. You kind of have to, you know, obviously, when you're not in a top position. I mean, I was an associated law firm. You know, I was like, one year there. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was on the totem pole as far as things go, and you have to agree with it. Even when someone else is wrong, you gotta agree. And you ought to be like, yes. Like, yes. And so I knew coming in I could do that, and I was capable of doing that. But having to do that for weeks and weeks and weeks was exhausting. And so I'm glad I did that, though, that I never thought of be aired. I just was like, well, not on the show. Oh, makes sense. Of course, they didn't air. So.

[B]

You did just say. You did just say one of your catchphrases phrases. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

You know what I'm saying? Like, made a joke about how.

[B]

Oh, yeah, Keanu did not. Didn't like it.

[A]

Yeah, there.

[B]

There are some people who don't like it. It's. I thought it was funny.

[A]

You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Oh, and I would always do him because my goal Was to be slightly annoying in the house. Just enough. Just enough. You can't be too annoying like a Kelly, and then everyone evict you. But if you're just the right amount of annoying, then it's like, okay, you have a mini target. And I think I talked about that in my speech, and that was something that really worked to my benefit towards the end of the game, especially next to players like Will, who are extremely likable. And I remember part of my pitch was that, you know, will will never have a target. I haven't met. People don't like me. You know, I remember, like, saying that and, like, trying to rely on that. Like, people don't really like me that much. You know, Like, I'm. I'm gonna go home next to you. I go home next to you, Vince, and I go home next next to you, Morgan, because people like you guys more than me. And, like, that was my pitch. I was like, but if you're next to Will, Will's the most liked in the house by far. He's respected. He's. He's. He's well liked. He's. He's played a great social game. If you're sitting next to him, you go home. And I remember, like, thinking, aha. This is my aha moment. I finally get to use that, because that was. I was waiting for the moment where I could be like, you know, people think I'm annoying. Like, Keanu. He doesn't like me. Like, why should you keep him? You know? And it worked. And it worked. And I think, shouldn't I. Yeah, it worked perfect. Quickly, I remember with Keanu, I noticed he didn't like, oh, my God. What was the saying I always did that he didn't like, oh, no offense. I picked up that he really didn't like when I was like, no offense. Da da da, da da. So I just started doing it and over and over again. And literally, even when me and Keanu started working together, people had no idea because it was, like, we didn't get along. You know, he was annoyed by me. He didn't like. You know, and so those types of things actually really, really help me. And I feel, because I stuck to my strategy the whole game and didn't deviate from it. It started kicking in really into gear at the end of the game, towards the end of the game, definitely the second half, for sure, because I had already planted those seeds and laid the foundation and the groundwork of, like, this is just who I am. Like, I'm so dumb. I'm Controllable. I can easily be manipulated. Like what? I'm annoying too. I'm annoying.

[B]

Like, I have more to say about that too. I'm going to put a pin in that for the final three because I talked specifically about. About that. How you laid the groundwork for your manipulation of Morgan later on. Yeah, but I don't want to get too far ahead of myself.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

So of course Vinnie wants to do Rachel as the Renom. There's a whole bunch of drama where Keanu's pushing for it. Vinnie tells Rachel, Rachel tells Keanu, Keanu tells Vinnie. Vinnie then wants to do Rachel even more. Morgan enlists your help to convince Vince to not do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You might make some good arguments. Morgan pushes hard and ultimately it does not happen. Rachel doesn't go in the block. Keanu or Sorry, Catherine goes on the block. Rachel cries to Vince after this, you're destroying my game. And he says, think about my game. It's even worse.

[A]

Why is your impression so good?

[B]

It was her birthday too, that she cried. So this is when. This is when this clip happens. Hold on. This little bit here.

[A]

Is this the Ashley clip? You should have sent Ashley home instead of Adrian. He's going back to week three. So that happened week seven.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. He really. I'm telling you, I lived in that man's head rent free. Like, rent free. That's crazy. I thought that happened earlier on. Where is he? Still thinking about week three. Oh, my gosh. Poor thing.

[B]

So there is some talk and this. This becomes a little bit more relevant during Keanu's hoh about Keanu and the way that he's talking to women in the house. And of course you call him out. Rachel, like, really calls him out later. This is sort of jumping ahead a little bit, but you have the conversation with him after your call out after being nominated. And. And you know, it did seem to inform a lot of his game that he was trusting a lot of the men and not really believing a lot of the women. It's something that. That was talked about a lot during the season. I think my perspective on it is that I think it was largely unconscious. And I don't think Keanu, like, is like a spiteful or like intentional person who does things in the way. And he has already, I think, in, like, sort of implied that he is to hearing where he went wrong in the game and stuff. So I don't know your thoughts on it.

[A]

Yeah, no, he is. And that's what I was telling you. Like, it's funny. He's watching the game back, and he was like, okay, I made a lot of mistakes. I didn't, you know, read things correct quite correctly. And towards the end of the game, which they probably wouldn't obviously show, like, me and Keanu totally made up. Like, we had a great conversation about the game, and I was able to open up with him once the nominations obviously were staying the same between him and Ava. I was able to open up with him a lot. Lot more about my game. And he was like. Like, okay, you know, without telling too much because I obviously didn't fully trust him because he could go around and tell people in the house that especially Ava was my biggest fear, because I knew he kind of liked him and Ava just had some sort of relationship together. And. Yeah, I don't think. I think is literally just a hothead. I think he's a hothead. I think he's a reactor. He just reacts to things fast without thinking it in the moment. And I don't think it has anything necessarily, really to do with what. I don't think Keanu's that person, actually. I think he's a quite nice guy. I think he just is a hothead. He's just a reactor. Reactor. He has a temper. He's very temperamental. And I think he. He thinks. I think his whole life he's probably been told that he's been right about everything. And so I think he just isn't open to anybody telling him anything that he's doing wrong and in the game perspective, because I think he genuinely thought he was right. I also think it was the aspect of him thinking he could just win his way to the end. I think in his mind, he's like, I don't even need to have the social game because I can just win every single competition and get to the end. And I think I said that to him and during his hoh, like, you think you just went your way to the end, but I genuinely think that that was his mindset. And so I think if he were to do things over, I think he would. I do think he would. I think he could sit back, watch back, and learn from his mistakes. And he's a great. He's a Christian man. Like, his mom seems so lovely. He always told me he's like, I know my mom. Mom isn't gonna like that. I'm beefing with you. She probably thinks you're so cute and funny and. And he was just like, what else did he say? I don't know. He just talked Very highly of his mom. And he also talked highly of me towards the end of the game, one on one, at least. Like, he was like, no, you're someone. Like, my family would like. Like, I hate that we're at odds. And yeah, he did apologize as well. He apologized. Even after his hoh, he apologized to me. So I totally fine with Keanu. I think he think he's a nice guy. I think he's just. That's different. That's it.

[B]

Yes. So while he does win the hoh after Catherine leaves and he wants to target Morgan, but in order to land the shot, he has to put up Vince. And this is one of the most hilarious interactions. I mean, the. It's. It's funny. After he doesn't renom more Rachel, Keanu has a whole pep talk to Vince. He's like, this is what I do in my real life. I screw everything up. And Keanu's like, keanu, Vinnie, Vinnie, you. This is what the game is about. You need to take shots when you have them. That's what Rachel taught me. Vinnie, you can't build confidence without competence. Okay. It's very funny.

[A]

That's hilarious.

[B]

Keanu needs to nominate Vince, and Vince begs and pleads him. No, no, you can't do this to me. I can't go before jury.

[A]

That's not My story ends.

[B]

Keanu, no, please don't do anything.

[A]

Why not? Ashley? Why is she getting carried? Why? What is happening? Oh, I saw that clip. I did see that clip. That's so funny. Oh, my gosh. It's good stuff getting carried.

[B]

It's good stuff. So trying to. To get through this. This. Though of course the nominations are fine. But when. When Mickey wins or. Sorry, that's. That's previous week, when Morgan wins the veto, that means Morgan's safe. And this means that Keanu sets his sights on you because he wants to make up for targeting Rachel the week before, but still wants to weaken her. And so you are the shot he wants to take. This is a very precarious position for you because you and Rachel are trying to pitch to not have you go up on the block in the first place, and Ava's the only other option. The problem is, is if you go on the block, Ava's the swing vote. Keanu knows this, and he keeps trying to bait Rachel into saying Ava's name, which she does a few times, and he uses that against Ava. However, you are able to walk the tightrope.

[A]

Yes. Did not fall for it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I knew he was going to try to bait me. I knew I was most likely going up at that point. After just talking to him for five seconds, I knew, okay, I'm going to be the replacement nominee. And so I was very careful with the things that I said to him. I made sure to not necessarily recommend Ava. I remember deflect, deflect, deflect. You know, trying to suggest other people without even naming them. Like, I was like, you know, there are two people who are great at blockbusters, are good at competitions. Those people would be better to put up, you know, as in Kelly and Lauren. I was like, but I know you're not going to do that, though. And I'm not suggesting that. I definitely was like, I'm not going to give him anything. Because I knew anything I can say and will be used against me in a court of law. Keanu's world. And I immediately. I remember I ran to Ava immediately after the conversation and told her everything because I wanted to build that trust with her already. Because I knew even though I. I didn't say anything, Keanu might lie, you know, to try to get his way. I read right through immediately. I knew. I was like, the only reason he's having this conversation with me is try to get something out of me. He already knows he's gonna put me up. So I made sure. I was like, I'm not gonna say nothing. Nothing.

[B]

And this turns into a. A battle between you and Vince for, like, Ava's vote, essentially. Because there's a lot of ammunition to use against Rachel at the very least. And to some degree, you. Ava's never been your biggest fan and so actually felt like it could be a battle. But you. It's. It. You don't make it a battle. It's not a battle. You just win it. You get Ava early. You're celebrating with her. When things go well.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You've been working on this relationship. Crucially, you talk to her about being willing to work with Lauren, which is the biggest hold up. Lauren's actually trying really hard to campaign for Vince with Ava. But. But Ava does not budge, primarily because of your campaign with her keeping her vote. And so with your vote, with her vote, you should be safe no matter what happens. Although we will need to talk about Mickey.

[A]

Right. What was the real tea on that? I'm still trying. I still don't know to this day. Was Mickey. Me. I think she was. We wasn't sure.

[B]

We believed that Mickey was going to keep you. Okay. That she was doing the same thing that Riley was doing. However, when she Got out of the house. She said she was. Was going to vote to evict you. But she also said a lot of other things that weren't true.

[A]

Other things. See, I don't actually believe that. I think she was going to keep me. And here's why. When Vince won the thing, her reaction, I think was her true feelings. She was livid, like, cussing, like, it was a very visible reaction. And when she walks out and we get to the top, she looks like she was about to cry because I think she thought I was going home next to her. And her reaction, her basically about to cry because I was going home potentially, or is what she thought made me feel like she was not going to keep Vince. I also think realistically she can say whatever she wants. It didn't even make sense for her to keep.

[B]

Oh, no way.

[A]

I mean, that's literally put her up the week before, which is. And she even told people on how she trust, which I believe because I think she. She' not a dummy like Vince put you up to send you home. Like, I don't think she thought that initially, but I think as the week went on, she started realizing, in my opinion, I felt like she started realizing that Vince was actually, you know, can't be trusted. So I don't think she was going to evict me, quite frankly. I mean, of course she's going to say that because she's salty and wants to seem like she's this like, mastermind person, but I don't think she was going to. I don't think she was going to. To evict me. I don't. I don't. Her reaction.

[B]

I didn't either, but.

[A]

Yeah, but she's also said a lot of things after the house.

[B]

Yeah. You hear about the tcore hat thing. That was funny.

[A]

The tcore hat thing is crazy. The tcore hat thing is crazy. You know, Joseph is close with Tcore, obviously from their season, and he texted Tikor, I guess, during the season and was like, hey, like that. And t's like, I've never met this woman in my life. And that is like, I think the hat was from Sheen or something. And she just.

[B]

Yeah, she said she was giving it by a friend who told her it was from Tcor. So anyway, he bought it. I know I'm also apparently not a.

[A]

Black woman according to Mickey as well, so. But we don't need to get in that.

[B]

Oh, boy. So Mickey is evicted and then the white locust happens.

[A]

My gosh. My biggest nightmare.

[B]

When I tell you this is the most pissed off I I've seen. The fan.

[A]

I believe it. I was pissed off. I was like, this can't be so.

[B]

It was bad. We don't need to relive it necessarily. But obviously, like, you were in the house. Just like, what am I even doing here? What did I sign up for the challenge?

[A]

Like, literally I was like, this can't be realized. This is supposed to be Big Brother. First they hit us with the three nominee thing, the blockbuster. I'm like, it was literally giving the challenge. I mean, this is quite literally a competition show at this point.

[B]

And additionally, the blockbuster is still in play where you would not have even been in trouble if the blockbuster wasn't in play because you were not a real choice for. Because your work with Ava did extend to Lauren that week and she was actually feeling kind of good about you. Lauren's preference in terms of terms of people she wanted to leave were Morgan number one, Kiana number two, and Will number three. But because of the blockbuster, you were up on the block and looking like you were going to go home despite all of it. Yeah, because. So Lauren nominates you, Will and Morgan. This is because she doesn't want to piss off Keanu if she doesn't have to. Again, she's like Vinnie trying to shoot the half court shot and hope that it lands, not have to do anything else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The problem is not only does she want to do that, but she also is fearful of winning the veto and not using it because that would lock in Lauren Morgan's fate potentially. So she throws the veto. She literally stood there at the end of BB Comics and waited and threw the veto to Morgan.

[A]

The crazy thing is it was only by 20 or 20, 20, 30 seconds or beast did that veto that she beasted through it. And still. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

It's another wild decision by Lauren because if she wins that veto, Morgan stays on the block. If she's a bold enough player, she uses the veto probably on you or Will probably on Will. If she's trying to stack the block and then one of Keanu or Morgan is Gary guaranteed to go home. But she doesn't want to do that. She doesn't want to get extra blood on her hands. So she throws the veto, Morgan wins it, and now she's in the position where she has to renom Keanu and he's the likely blockbuster winner. It's just an awful decision all around. Vinnie also throws this veto, by the way.

[A]

Okay, that makes sense.

[B]

Pretends like he doesn't even in the diary room.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

But he's literally on a casual stroll the entire time, like, ah, I wonder what this one is? And then goes back for an extra joyride on the zip line. And then has the gall to be like, I was trying my hardest. You weren't. Are you doing.

[A]

Because I felt like before I remember talking to Ava, and I was like, lauren needs to plant the seed to Vinnie that he can't win the competition because it'll show his hand. It'll show for us to choose between Morgan and Lauren. So it makes sense. It actually did make sense for his game not to win it because he would have had to change. Show his hand right then there.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, we also didn't talk about the. The. We have to. Keanu's hoh. Morgan has the veto, almost uses it on Vince. Probably Vinny and Keanu come up with a harebrained scheme to trick Morgan into using the veto on Vince.

[A]

Vinnie came up with it too.

[B]

He was in the room, came up with it with. With Keanu. And the idea was to tell Morgan that if she uses it on Vince, he'll put up Lauren, but then he'll actually put up you, and then they will send Morgan home. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

So America probably thought I was so smart then when I told Morgan not to do it. Okay. Because I was like, girl, he's gonna do it anyway. He's gonna put me up.

[B]

Which I'm sure live feed audience thought. So Vinnie fully knew that this was a trick and tried to get Morgan to do it. And she was going to do it until she talked to you and then. And then Rachel and was talked out of it. And then even after she was talked out of it, she was like, what if he just puts up Ashley anyway? And Vinnie was like, he won't. I'm telling you, he won't. And he spent the entire night trying to get her to do it, pouting that she wouldn't. And he never told her. I mean, I assume she's. I don't. I'm sure she. I assume she's found out about it at this. It was pretty wild. If she had gone through with that, it would have been one of the most embarrassing plays in the history of the show.

[A]

My brother and I tried to tell her that. I was like, girl, if you do that, Come on, no man is worth $750,000, especially when you just met. Especially one with a girlfriend of seven years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Anyway, back to Lauren's hoh. Keanu is going to go up on the block. He really didn't think he would and he's shocked that Lauren won't put up Vince instead of him. He knows that if he doesn't win the blockbuster, he'll go home. However, you correctly determine that the chances of him not winning the blockbuster are relatively small. So everyone assumes you're done at this point. The audience, the people in the house, it's over. It's another tricky spot because nobody should vote for you to stay over Will.

[A]

Nobody should. And.

[B]

And the only way for you to. To stay over Will is if Keanu.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And Vince and Morgan all come together to vote for you to stay, which Vince doesn't like you.

[A]

No.

[B]

You've never worked with Keanu and Morgan. Morgan and Keanu voting the same way doesn't make any sense. No, it's a really tough spot. Not to mention the fact that Will is like the ideal player to bring to final three because he can't win the final three hoh and nobody will take him to final two. So he's a perfect guaranteed, like, hey, we're a duo. Nobody's going to be tempted to take Will because he's too likable and he can't win. He's the perfect final three goat. And yet, Ashley, some may say this was a game losing mistake for some of the people in the house.

[A]

I actually, yeah, I think this one, I think that move was the game winning mistake because I was able, I, I was able to become remain targetless the whole rest the of of the way through. As in like the only other time I was on the block, I think after that was when I had to be, when it was Morgan's HOH and the only person to put up was Vinnie. Obviously she wasn't putting up Benny. You know what I mean? No, that was their worst move. I can't believe I convinced them that I was better to keep Will. Like, I still can't even believe they believed me. Like, I couldn't believe it worked.

[B]

If, if Morgan keeps, if Morgan doesn't force Vince because he had to be forced to keep you, they keep Will instead of. They go to the final three of the Will. Morgan wins the game.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. Like, yep, Morgan wins the game. So you essentially you, you, you crucially managed to pull Keanu over to your side. You propose that you work together and he is down for this. He would love for Lawrence HOH to be a disaster and take out Will. And this is really when your relationship starts to, to take off. What was it that you felt was the turning Point for. For Keanu and your relationship.

[A]

Oh, I feel like I really leaned into his disdain for Lauren. I feel like I really leaned into that. I really leaned into also the relationship with Kelly. I really was working my butt off to try to flip them to get Kelly and Keanu at odds because I needed him to. See. Look. Look. Look at this. You are the one who's been winning competitions and keeping Lawrence safe. You could have put her up last week. You did it. Look who Lauren decides to put up. She doesn't put up. Kelly. You know, you and Kelly. Yeah. You guys have been in the same position this whole game. Being targets. Clearly, now Kelly's doing better than you socially. I mean, the fact that you just want an HOH could have put her up. You didn't, and now you're on the block, and Kelly isn't even a consideration. Clearly. Look at this trio. There's a trio for me, Ava, Lauren, and Kelly. And you're on the other side of that. If you. You. If you take me out, that would be a dumb move because I'm alone. I'm a loner. My number one is gone. She got evicted in white locusts. Like, Rachel wants us to work together. Keanu, like, she'd be so happy for us to work together. Like, hello, you have to keep me. And also, Will is a number for Kelly, not you. So you keeping Will would just be making Kelly's game way more powerful because Kelly already has not only the trio, but she'll also have Will. Look. Look at who sits and talks all day long in the mornings. They're the only two that wake up, you know? And so I was really leaning on trying to break him and Kelly up for him, seeing that Kelly is now your competition. Like, I know you guys have been allies, but clearly now Kelly's out gaming here. She's not even on the block. Kelly has protection from a trio, and if you keep Will, she has protection from him as well. Who do you think was going to go for? It's not Kelly, you know, and I kind of just tried to lean into that. And I also tried to lean into bringing Morgan Events and him together. I kind of tried to do that for both of them because Keanu told me that his nominees were going to be Morgan Events, but I would run to Morgan Events and be like, keanu's putting me up, but just as a pawn. And you guys. You guys can keep me up. You guys are my numbers. Like, duh. Because I'm like, if they feel unity with that, then they'll really? That'll push Morgan events over the edge to keep me, right? Because they're gonna believe, oh, if we do this and we go with Keanu's plan of keeping Ashley, we can pull in Keanu. You know, Keanu won't charge target us, so target the girls. And so I really leaned into that. Even though I knew Keanu, obviously he would have put Lauren up, but he was definitely coming for, like, Morgan for sure still. But I didn't care because I needed the vote to say, love you more, but, girl, I need to say. And I needed them to believe that Keanu wasn't coming for them because I knew if they believed that, then this is like, the stance if you keep Ashley. Keanu is now feeling like you guys are all working together, and we can all, you know, come together and go against the other side, which is the three girls. And I feel like that really helped as well as well, showing Vinnie that, like, we will never be a target. You and Will could be on the block. You're going home every single time next to Will. Will is also a strong dude with Ava. Will never going to choose you over Eva. I don't have anyone else to choose in front of you guys. You know, the judges are my thing. Like, I have nobody. Rachel's gone. And so I really tried to lean into that, too. For them to keep me, I was going to do whatever it takes. I was, like, laying that groundwork every day, every day, every day. And I think that was Will's downfall. I feel like he just thought he was safe because they made it seem like he. He was safe in the beginning of the week, that he didn't start working and trying really hard until a little bit later. But it was almost too late because I had already laid the groundwork. It was pushing, you know, pushing all of that, my agenda. Basically. The whole week, he never saw Keanu as an opening, and I did immediately. When Keanu went off, I was like, I'm going to rely on his emotions being heated in the moment and being pissed at Lauren and really just poke that bear.

[B]

It's a hard thing to do to get votes from two different sort of sides of the game. But you managed it. You surprised everyone by managing to stay there. It is funny because Vince really did not want to keep you, and so he would. He would do what he often did and, like, go to Lauren because Morgan was pushing for you to stay, and he'd be like, lauren Morgan, Morgan's pushing me for Ashley to stay. She wants Ashley to stay. Thinking that Lauren would be like, oh, yeah, I can't believe. Believe that. But then Lauren would be like, well, I mean, I think she should. She also wanted you to stay over. Well, so he couldn't find anyone that agreed with him other than Kelly. And so he had a lot of trouble there. At this point, he is ranting about you, like, on a daily basis about how you don't even deserve to be there.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's why.

[B]

And then you also do one thing with Lauren, which. Where you. And this was, I think, a genuine misunderstanding, but you used it that Vince had told Will, hey, you might leave because you're too well liked. And then Will talked to Ava and then talked to Morgan and you and said, hey, apparently I'm too well liked.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then you guys were like, how did he know? That's what we were talking about. Ava must have told him and Lauren must have told Ava because Vinnie's been talking to Lauren. And the reality was that Vinnie had already told Will straight up. That's how he knew. But it was a good connection to make and it really helped. It really pissed Morgan off about Lauren.

[A]

I genuinely thought that. So that was a genuine mistake. I genuinely thought. Because Ava told me in the bathroom that I think you're saying. And I was like, okay, shifting. Got that from Lauren. And so I generally was connecting. The dolphin thought that was it.

[B]

What I will say is it is possible that that did happen. Happen also because we did miss a chunk of the conversation that. That Ava had, I believe, with Will. Okay, so it is possible that that also happened. But Will had been told by Vinnie also.

[A]

Vinnie straight up told him that I was staying. Or what did he say?

[B]

He was. He was saying, like, yeah, we're thinking, you know, you're. You're really well liked. So, you know, that's a reason. He wasn't saying he was going to do it, but he was like, that's a reason people are talking about.

[A]

Wow. Wow. Okay, I see. Interesting. Okay, that's very interesting. Okay.

[B]

Really pissed Morgan off, though. She went off on Vince. Like, I told you, we can't trust Lauren. Vince.

[A]

I loved it. I loved it. I was. I really wanted Vincent Morgan to break up so bad because as you guys know, I did not want to work with Vinnie. I feel like I was forced, like, because that was the hand I was dealt, but I really just wanted Morgan all to myself.

[B]

Well, Vince wins the next hoh after you survive the vote against Will, three to two. And this is again a spot where you should Just be an easy nom. But Morgan immediately is getting to work. He had been promising Morgan all week long the week before. I will nominate Lauren. I will. You're doubting me, but I will do it. Planning to throw the hoh. But he couldn't because he was up against Kelly, who would have nominated him because he burned Kelly too many times times in the game. So now he's stuck in this place and there's a. It's a whole series of events and I. I couldn't explain it to you if I tried, Ashley, because it was every single night for hours until 5, 6am in the morning, arguing back and forth, talking in code about their relationship, slowly starting to sleep in the same room to sleep in the same bed to sleep in in, you know, closer to sleep with less pillows, just, you know, all kinds of stuff going on every single night. And it was. It was a lot to have to cover, let me tell you.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Point being, though, Morgan is pushing hard for him to not put you on the block. You are pushing Morgan's buttons. Morgan is pushing Vince's buttons. And. And Morgan of the primary arguments is if you nominate Ashley, you will lose all of the judges jury votes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's kind of a nonsense, completely.

[A]

Nonsense argument, but I love that Morgan believed it. I was like, yes, girl, Absolutely, absolutely right. They'll never vote for him.

[B]

In the meantime.

[A]

That worked. I was so happy about it.

[B]

Yes. It was a very. I don't know why it worked. And let me say this too, because again, I want to make sure all these moves come through, but you had been planting that seed for a long time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There's a very fun clip I have of you when you did talk to Rachel about how they want her injury and you were like, I'm telling them that you're going to be unbiased because obviously I want to get the jury. I want you to make as far as you can. And then Will's like, that's so funny. And Rachel's like, that's so funny that they think that Will. That they will be great jurors for them. And you're like, like, yeah, they don't know you. Like, I do. And then I cut to Rachel and Will have also right for Ashley.

[A]

Right. Literally.

[B]

And you're telling this to Morgan all the way up until like day 82. Like, like more, you know, Rachel's gonna be such an unbiased jerk, you know, oh, my gosh.

[A]

I knew she won it, but I know Will wouldn't be A bias. Which is why I was not gonna take Ava to final two. What the heck? Gonna. I'm have not gotten Will's vote.

[B]

Yes. So Vince has been trying to put a target on Ava's back for weeks now, and he wants Ava to go. Ava or Keanu to go on this age. I mean, he would love for you to go, but he.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

But he ends up using the cheating island comments as a reason to put Keanu on the block, which is wild because you have to assume that's going to be part of the storyline.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You use it as a reason.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But again, the Vinnie Morgan stuff escalates. He wants her to sleep in the hoh room. He wants her to sleep in the bed. And it. And it just continues and continues. She says Lauren needs to touch the block at least once. And you and her are basically like, let's pretend we won't vote her out. Oh, yeah, but we will vote her out.

[A]

Her out immediately. As soon as she touched the block, I was like, evict love Lauren. But she was not good for my game. I mean, there was a point in the beginning of the game where I did want to work with her, but after. After, after her, which I think I said to the camera, I don't know if it showed, but after her even considering putting me up as a freedom, I was like, no, I don't trust her because, like, what, girl, I've been trying to work with you, and now you just want to throw me up on the block? Like, I never. I'm the type person. I don't fit. I don't forget things. I forgive, but I don't forget. And so I was like, I just need to do whatever I can to get Lauren on that block because if she does not want that blockbuster, I'm pressing evict.

[B]

She was not giving.

[A]

You're giving.

[B]

Giving Morgan ammunition. You're poking and prodding her. If she ever starts to relent, she comes to you a couple of times like, am I being unreasonable? And you're like, girl, no.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, no. Because then I also started seeing Lauren is even more of a threat. But the Kelly and Ava duo or trio, and I saw that they were starting to get closer than me and Ava. And so I'm like, oh, no, no, no. Like, I need Ava to be team Ashley. Like, because at this point, she was. I felt like she really liked me in the house.

[B]

Towards you. You had won her over. The. By the time you you would have had her vote against Vince. You had, like, Fully won her to your side. And she was fully team Ashley.

[A]

Okay, good. That's good to know. That's how I thought. I felt like me and AVO had really connected at this point. She's a great number for me. She actually really, you know, cares about me and wants me in this game. And I saw Lauren. Lauren was on the way. I'm like, oh, no.

[B]

Lauren's got a final.

[A]

You.

[B]

You knew this. She had a final three with Lauren and Kelly.

[A]

Yes, absolutely. That. I absolutely knew just by the way that Ava was constantly pitching to try to keep Kelly over Keanu, which I was never going to do, ever. I knew I was like, oh, no. Something. You know, I'm not only right that this is a trio, but this is something strong, like the fact she's pitching to me. Why Kelly should stay. I mean, even in Lauren's campaign, for Lauren to say she started pitching why Kelly should stay over. You know what I mean? I'm like, this is silly. Like, you guys are. All my alarms are going off, off. And so I wanted Lauren out. Like, I knew I would say whatever I had to say to Vince to get Lauren on that block.

[B]

So I counted at least nine, maybe 10 times that Vince was convinced to put Lauren on the block. Talked to Lauren, was convinced to not. It happened 10 times. There was one of the notable times right before the nomination ceremony, you saw him, he was talking outside in the backyard. He was telling her, I'm sorry. Like, you know, like, this. This is. This is good for us. Us. You have to do it. And it's one of the most ridiculous conversations you'll ever watch. The episode has some of it. At one point, he's like, please, please.

[A]

Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please.

[B]

100 times. I'll do anything. I'll say anything. Please, Lauren, please, let's just do it. Let's just do it. Let's just do it. Come on, let's do it. Let's do it. Lauren, she's like, no, come on, let's. No, let's do it. It'll be fun. Come on.

[A]

That's so funny. Hilarious.

[B]

Doesn't end up doing it. Morgan's p. You tell him. White locust planted a seed. This decision has now grown it into a plant. If you don't renom Lauren, it will grow into a tree that you can't climb down from with. With Morgan. After you leave that conversation, he goes, whatever. Still think I beat Lauren in the final two? Maybe I should have just nominated her. That was the best Decision fucking up my game.

[A]

That is hilarious. Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry. Seeing all that, like, the clips of it, like, how much that man, like, I'm telling you, I lived in his head for free.

[B]

Like that he brought us endless entertainment at the very least.

[A]

Oh, that is so funny. Gosh. No. I remember being like, if anything, I was like, my last ditch effort for me to not go up on this block and Morgan uses this is to use Morgan, as in as a weapon against many. Like, like, this relationship is going to crumble if you put me up. Like, if you put me up, not only will it crumble the jury house, it's going to crumble your relationship with Morgan because you already planted the seed that you would choose Lauren over Morgan. And now if you do this, that is choosing Lauren over Morgan and there is no coming back from it. I remember. Yeah.

[B]

Like, and literally he's upstairs saying, I still think I beat Lauren in the final two. And you are downstairs telling Morgan I think he thinks he can beat Lauren in the final two.

[A]

No.

[B]

And you get Morgan to tell you about her final two deal with Vince and the final two deal that Vince said he declined from Lauren, which obviously he didn't. And you tell Morgan that you. You would love to go in to the final two with her, but at this point, she wins the veto. And you're, like, not really going to follow.

[A]

Absolutely not. Like, oh, my gosh, once she want. Because I was like, you know what? I'm 50. 50. Because I felt like I'd done more than Morgan socially lately in the game and that people weren't really liking her as much as I'm not saying I'm the most like person we know that that's not true. But I feel like compared to Morgan at that point, I was definitely more liked than Morgan. Like, will like me more. Ava like me more. Lauren like me more shooting like me more. You know what I mean? I started getting more numbers. And so I was at that point, Morgan had only one, maybe one competition or something. Like one or maybe two. At that point, she went to production.

[B]

This was her second veto in a row, I think.

[A]

Yeah. So she had only won one competition. I had only won one competition. So I'm like, in my social game, more people like me. So I genuinely was like, at that point, maybe I would sit in a final two with Maureen. There were other people I would rather. But I didn't necessarily lie about that at that moment. But then once you won that video, I was like, okay, so now I'm not going to sit with her in.

[B]

Maybe it's their third copies. But yeah, at this point, you make a final two with Ava.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You continue to lock in with Keanu. And, you know, again, you encourage Morgan to keep pressuring for Lauren. And again, tons of back and forth, but eventually you does put up Lauren really shouldn't have. And. And then there's this whole saga where Lauren is now forced to play ball with Vince because he breaks a tie in her favor, but she's pretty mad at him. And so she talks about how she's mad at him on her campaign trail. Then Morgan actually, like, fully decides, you know what? I. I pushed too hard. I feel bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And has this, like, breakdown moment with Vince that. That lasts all night. And he feels like, I've got her now. She feels bad. And he tries to pile on the guilt trip by saying, yeah, And Lauren now says she's done with me. And then the next morning, Morgan's like, so Lauren's done with you. Why are we keeping her then?

[A]

Yeah, literally. Literally.

[B]

And so Vince says, oh, no, no. And he grabs Lauren and he says, you need to say that. That you don't want to come, which she does. And you instantly clock it. And this is the final nail in his coffin for Morgan. You are fully able to convince her that he will always choose Lauren over her because of this.

[A]

Yep. Yep. Instantly clocked it. Instantly. She completely changed her tune, which gave the whole thing away. The day before, she's saying, I don't trust Vince anymore. You know, he. I thought it was as untouchable, and now he's touched me, so clearly I. I'm not his untouchable. The trust is broken, you know, yada, yada, yada. The next day. I love Vince. Vince is great. Vince is perfect. He's an angel. Like, love him, ride or die. Want to keep him. He's. It was just a complete different tune. And she started saying things that I had literally told Vince and Morgan, like, earlier that day, which is why immediately, even more was like, 100%. Vince told her exactly what to say. I don't remember the exact line language that was used, but it was a hundred percent. I was like, this is Vince talking. This is not Lauren talking. This is Vince talking. I don't trust it.

[B]

Yeah. Basically, Vince couldn't do anything without you being like, oh, see that, Morgan? Oh, he just did it again. Like, he couldn't get away with anything. You were just constantly on his case. So it kind of ends in a stalemate, of course, where Morgan and you and Keanu played to evict Lauren if you can. He plans to break a tie to save Lauren if he can. None of it ends up mattering when Lauren wins the blockbuster. Kelly leaves. Now, I don't know how much you knew about this, but what Lauren had told Vince was, you haven't lost me. As long as you keep Kelly over Keanu, of course I will do that.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. I was wondering her face. Her face face. When Vince broke the tie said it all.

[B]

He'd been promising her all week. He'd been saying, that's my move to differentiate myself from Morgan. I promise. She's. She's been like, we need to take out Morgan after that. And he's like, I know we're gonna do it.

[A]

And shame, shame, shame. I knew we're gonna keep Kelly. It didn't make sense for his game. Keanu was someone who was a loyal soldier. Kelly was coming for him and Morgan. So I don't know at the end.

[B]

Of the day what Morgan wanted him to do. So of course, the double eviction happens. Morgan wins the hoh, Keanu wins the veto, and Lauren is finally sent home. And that brings us to the final five.

[A]

Couldn't be more perfect. I was so happy.

[B]

You literally said when you talked about Elle woods that you needed Kelly. And then Lauren gone. Of course, there was a detour where Rachel and Will left first, but, yeah, still got there. This endurance comp pissed me off because this went, I think, nine hours with Leah and Cam and Angela. This season before and this season, they were like, how can we make this better? What if we added really heavy face masks at the end of your sword? That means that if you don't have good upper body strength, you won't be able to last. I wonder who this is in favor for.

[A]

Exactly. And boy, were they surprised. Boy, were they surprised. I know they thought Keanu. I thought Keanu was going to win that.

[B]

I was like, he should have.

[A]

We'll take Morgan out this week. And this is my perfect final four, Morgan. Because that was my perfect final four. Honestly, Keanu, Vince, and Ava, at that point, once we got to seven, that was my ideal final four because I felt like I could definitely beat Vince in a boat. I felt like Ava, if I could make a big move over Ava, yes, she'd have Kelly and Lauren and Will. But I think I could have Rachel, Morgan, Keanu, and then I would have to try to get Vince. But Vince didn't get along. So I thought, you know, maybe at worst, this Could. This could work out for me, but I never plan on taking anyway. But it was my perfect final four because Ava's also. If anyone's worse than me in competitions, it was Ava. So I'm like, this is my ideal final four, because maybe I'm can start winning stuff, especially with Morgan out. And then I was like, at worst, Kiana will just win everything, and, like, he'll take me to the end. Granted, he has a damn good story, but he's pissed so many people off, you know, like, he had. His reads were so off in the game. The social strategy just wasn't there. And I knew as a lawyer, I'm like, oh. I had already started thinking of every argument I could poke into Keanu's, you know, story as to why he should win. So I was like, this is my ideal final four. I knew Morgan, it would be very hard to beat her just because. Because she completely ran Vinny's hohs. She did completely ran his hohs, which is very strong. And then she comped out quite literally. She would have gone home weeks before, but she just kept winning competition after competition. Competition.

[B]

She either broke the record or tied the. I think she broke the record for most consecutive rounds with immunity. It would have been a. Like, the. The next closest person if she had won the final hoh. The next closest, closest person, like, she would have won out from, like, final nine or final ten or something. And the next closest person, like, has had one out from final, like, six.

[A]

Like, there's no way. You know what I mean? There's just no way I'm beating Morgan. So I wanted Morgan gone that week. Even though I love Morgan, I was like, she's gotta go because she's the only person out of the five that I felt like definitely 100% will beat me hands down, down, just because of the comp wins. I mean, not necessarily social strategy, but the comp wins. And completely running Vinny's HOHs is strong enough, a strong enough argument, because people love comp wins. For whatever reason, people love a good comp win. It just is what it is. And so, yeah, I just remember thinking, Keanu's got this. This is his competition to win. He's going to win this. He's gonna knock out one of them. And it didn't happen because I hate to say his arrogance, but I think he was talking too much. He wasn't focused. He was looking around. He should have been focused. He thought it was his to lose. I mean, his to win. And he got too. He got Too confident. And it's unfortunate, but everything worked out in my favor, clearly, because Vinnie actually would have gone home that week, not Morgan, because Morgan won tiny veto.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, Keanu said that he wouldn't have touched Vince as the hoh. I don't know how true that is, but yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's surprising. These moves don't make sense. See, it would have been the smartest thing. Thing to put up Morgan and Vinnie up front.

[B]

I mean. Yeah, here's the thing. I mean, he was telling that to Vince ahead of time and he, you know, I think he might have meant it. I think it would have been an interesting conversation with you and Keanu because obviously, if he leaves Vince off the.

[A]

Block, I have to go up. Yeah.

[B]

And. And that means that Vince can use the veto on Morgan. And so, like, I, I think it's tough because it's Keanu. There's probably a world where he can be swayed into putting Vince up. It had happened before that he did that for that specific reason, but especially once he had already been betrayed. Keanu was like, I was going to keep you for sure. So it's hard to know exactly what would have happened. But, yeah, that was. That was his. His story.

[A]

Yeah, that was interesting.

[B]

So Vince, of course, continues to promise. Promised Keanu he will not go up and that he will not play Morgan's game, despite the fact that he does end up, of course.

[A]

Literally does it anyway. Does everything. See, that's what I didn't understand about Vince's game. It's like moves where he would obviously have to show his hand. He. He would still lie. And I'm like, don't you realize you have to show your hand? Like, to me, what is the point of lying? Like, I didn't. I didn't get it. I didn't get it. But.

[B]

You heavily consider your options if you win this veto with you off the block, should you take out Morgan? We, I think Corey from season 25 and I did a small debate about this, whether this was the right move to take out Morgan because there's pros and cons. Ultimately, we kind of landed on, like, listen, if you get power and don't use it at the final five after. After not winning anything, like, you kind of just have to go for it.

[A]

I knew I had to use it. I knew I had to use it. Yeah. I knew that even if even skipping ahead to the next week, I knew, unfortunately, if I won the power of veto, I was going to have to use it because otherwise people are going to Say she's made no moves in the game. You finally win something and then you don't use it. And so that's why I felt like it was God, like, everything worked out the way it was supposed to. Like Morgan, it was great that she won that final veto because if I wanted, I would have had to use it it because I would have had to show that I can make a big move. Granted, things would have worked out, and I think I still would have won because Ava wouldn't have beat me. I love Ava, but she wouldn't have beat me in the part 2 HOH. Morgan always would have won that first endurance comp. I would have won the second comp, and obviously it would have been me versus Morgan in that final ho. So I would have still won the hoh and I would have sat next to Eva. But I think if I took Vince out and had a big move like that, him not liking Ava as well. He didn't like me, but he didn't like Ava. I also feel like Will might have had to flip at that point, because at that point, how do you keep Ava if I not only won the veto, took Ava, kept her safe, won the final veto, you know what I'm saying? Like, it would be crazy. I don't know what he really would have done, though, because his loyalties were definitely to Ava. But it's like, if you make a big move like that, you know what I'm saying? Like, how do. I don't know what would have happened happen, but I just know, like, it was meant for me to not win those vetoes because I would have had to use it. How do you not. How do you justify that to a jury? If you make it to the end that you finally you're able to make a power plan? You don't. You know?

[B]

Exactly. So Morgan wins the veto, and that's finally it for Keanu. You think he's gonna leave that night, but he ends up staying around a couple more days, which is great for you because you use that time very effectively. Effectively. You actually talk to him about how you think your best case scenario is sitting against Vince, and he agrees with you. And that's a really, really underrated, effective tactic to talk to people about your jury management, about what you plan to do before they leave, if they know they're leaving. He couldn't really blame you for sending him out, even though he did disagree. And so very good stuff and very effective stuff. Meanwhile, Vincent Morgan are mostly spending their time talking about option one and Keanu Is finally evicted, Bringing us to the final four.

[A]

Yes. Final four. And yes, I definitely was like, I'm going to work this man. Love you, Keanu. But I was like, I'm going to work him. He's going home or, you know, he's going to the jury house, and I need him to deliver messages for me. That's exactly how I. And I don't know if he did or not, but I was like, that was my plan that he did leave.

[B]

Saying that you were smarter than people. People gave you credit for. Like, you had. You had convinced. Because again, the way that you talked to him and he mentioned this to you, like, the way that you talk strategy to him was, like, refreshing because. And we actually mentioned this, too, that anytime Vince talked to you because Vince loves to mirror people. Anytime Vince talks to you, you're like, wow, he seems like a competent strategist.

[A]

That's weird. Is.

[B]

That's so Final four. Morgan wins the hoh. And it's ridiculous. I mean, not even close. Just ridiculous.

[A]

I'm telling you how heavy the thing was. I was like, they don't want to see me win because the fact that they made that the hoh. I am so frail.

[B]

Like, never been an hoh.

[A]

Okay. Because I was like, what is this comp? So it's never been an hoh. Okay, Got it.

[B]

We. The last time we saw, I think was BB17 or something and 10 years. You know, coincidentally, it's a competition that Keanu knew about and talked about a lot this during the season.

[A]

A lot. Apparently he had a whole tissue box box to practice. The competition say they really wanted him to stay that week. The week before, they did not want him to be evicted over Eva is the vibes that I got. I also. Here's my thing. It would have been the dumbest move in history for me to vote for him to stay because exactly what I predicted would happen happen. Okay. Keanu would have won that hoh. Okay. I guess you would have won the veto.

[B]

Morgan.

[A]

Morgan. Nobody was beating Morgan in that veto. She completed that thing in, like 10 minutes. I mean, it was quite late. That veto was meant to be probably 30 to 45 minutes. She completed it in 10 minutes. It wasn't even close. It wasn't even close. She said she's played those games before a lot. Those puzzle sliding thing games. I guess who would have gone home. Just as I predicted, which I even laid out. I tried to lay it out to him. I said, listen, at this point, I'm guaranteed final three. Me keeping you puts that in danger. He's like, so you're playing for third. So you're playing for third. And I'm like, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I'm guaranteed three. And at that point, I couldn't tell him. I was pretty sure I could convince Morgan to take me to 2 and Vinnie to take me to. So I'm guaranteed top two. If I fix you, why would I keep you? And he's like, because I can win the competitions. I can win the final veto, and then I can take Morgan out. Do you know how many things have to line up for that. Those chain events to happen for Morgan to go? I remember I told him that to his face because I was like, this would be the dumbest move ever for me to keep you in the game. Dumb, dumb. Yeah, I guess what, I would have gone home. I would have been fourth place. Not even third.

[B]

Yep. You spent much of the final four talking to Ava and securing her jury vote. I don't know if you caught much of this, but Ava was constantly secretly pulling Vince into rooms.

[A]

I did. I did.

[B]

You should keep me.

[A]

No, I noticed it. I noticed it a lot, actually, because there was times I was in the bathroom, and as soon as I walk out, she'd walk by and go in. I'm like, girl.

[B]

Of course it doesn't work. She. We talked about this. She was campaigning to the wrong person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Vince may have had the vote, but not control of the vote. And so as soon as Morgan wins the final four veto, you go to work on her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had a long live feed update talking through this conversation you had with her because I really thought it was impressive. First of all, Morgan Wynn, I am.

[A]

So honored to be your streamer.

[B]

Yes. Morgan, of course, is a gamer.

[A]

She's a gamer.

[B]

Bombshell.

[A]

That's right. Right.

[B]

But really phenomenal conversation with her where you are introducing this concept of, hey, you have basically just won the game. You're so close. All you need to do is win the final hoh. She's like, what do you mean? People lose the game after winning the final? Well, no, if you take me, obviously, it's a guarantee. If you take Vince, it's 50. 50. And it's a long conversation. But this is where I wanted to bring up, like, the groundwork you laid all season long of saying it like it is, making accurate predictions. You'd constantly say things with so much confidence. You had the confidence, confidence of Keanu, but, like, you actually got things right, which is pretty rare, you know, What I mean, and so, like, it's a strategy that could have made you fall so flat on your face if you had been wrong more like more often, but you weren't. You got things right over and over again. And it built so much credibility that not only were you right about things all the time, but you had a reputation for being too honest, honestly. And so, you know, some people saw this conversation, like, wow, Ashley's just being so obvious about what she's trying to do, but it's like she built all of this credibility for 80, 80 days so that this would land in the way that it does.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it hits Morgan hard. And I have one final clip I want to show you.

[A]

I'm excited when this final hoh I could win this entire game. Not going to stop planting seeds above any. Because I need to make sure that if I don't win this, I am at least. At least taken by Morgan. I'm not gonna stop. I'm pretty sure she's gonna take me. But Vinnie's gonna say everything he can to be taken to the end. And I'm gonna make sure that that doesn't happen because that is my spot. Which is 50, 50, 50 events, which is 50, 50. It is not 50, 50. It is 50, 50, Vince. It just depends with Rachel and the jury. I don't know, because she plays a lot like Vince. You played a very similar game to Rachel. Rachel plays a lot like Vince. Is any other rage levels for me over you? Yes. That's absurd. No, it's not. Do you not hear what Ashley said? You played a very similar game to Rachel. Your social name was good. You just had Vinnie goggles. So you didn't see a lot of things that were happening. I had Vinnie goggles on, girl. You know he was a part of that flip, right? I had Vinnie goggles on. But it was just like whatever Vinnie wanted, I did. I trusted Vinnie. I believe.

[B]

Where did this come from?

[A]

Had you.

[B]

You won the final hoa.

[A]

Who are you going to take? You know, I was actually going to take Ashley. Oh, my gosh. You have to send me these clips. These are so good. I have to send them to my parents. Only the show edit me like this. I mean, come on.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. And this is what I was trying to communicate to people at the end day of the season as well. Just like I. I wish that more people could see what I'm seeing here because it is so fun. And we. It's pretty rare that we get players in the End game. Who are doing these kinds of things who haven't already, like locked up the game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Eight weeks prior. And so it was really good stuff and just masterfully executed. You navigated. Vince tried very hard every single night to the point where it really wore Morgan down. And I would not surprised in the least if her performance in part three of the final three hoh had to do with the fact that she got no sleep because Vinnie was just hounding her about this decision and she kept entertaining the conversation.

[A]

Yep. I remember like being like. I mean, there was one night we all stayed up really late in the hot tub, but I remember being like, I have way more credibility if I give my opinions in front of Vinnie than just doing it on the side. Because that way it seems like clearly this is not a game playing move. I'm just blunt and honest. I'm just saying it like. And so I remember when we were all three sitting in the hot tub, I used that as strategy. I was like, okay, I'm gonna plant seeds while I'm in the hot tub. Meaning I am going to just hype up Vinnie's game as much as I can. Even though I don't believe it. I've never even watched Rachel season. I don't know if he played that game. Never watched Rachel season in my life. And I just remember being like, if I do it in front of Vince, it buys me that credibility because she's not going to think I'm manipulating her. If I'm saying it in you front of. Front of him, who would? Who would? Because why would you say something like that? If you're trying to make it a game playing move, you're not going to say it in front of the person. And so I remember I was just hyping Vince up the whole time in the hot. You played a masterful game. You know, you played a game like, you're amazing. You're the best. You're the best social player in the house. I remember there was a moment we were looking at the wall and we were ranking social game and we both agreed that Vinnie was number two. We said Ava and Will were like kind of tied for one and Vinnie was close following. And then we agreed that Vin, me and her were kind of tied for fifth. And I remember that moment being like, it's working, it's working. The fact she sees Vince as a better social player than me is perfect. Like, this is amazing. Everything.

[B]

Vince was losing his mind trying to talk to Morgan about this. He was like, how in the world do you believe this? But the problem was, and I pointed this out time and time again, he had no ground to stand on because all season long he had been talking about how useless you were as a player and how you didn't deserve to be there. And so he couldn't even if he wanted to, and he didn't even try build you up. All he could do was talk himself down. And that was just not enough.

[A]

Yep. No, it sure wasn't. I knew I had her by the time I remember that last day. She was like, I know what I have to do. But I remember I was planted the seeds when Ava was still here, which I don't know if they show this, but it was my idea for Ava to tell more Morgan about the things because I wanted Ava to believe that that could make the veto be used on her, even though I knew there was no shot and all Morgan would ever use the veto on Ava because Morgan had knows that Ava was coming for her. And I had convinced Morgan that Ava is just completely unbeatable. She has locked votes. Like, nobody can be. Nobody can beat Ava, you know, not me, not you, not Vinnie. Because she has locked votes. Just four locked votes. Keanu loves Ava. He'll vote for her next to anyone. Anyone. He doesn't like YouTube, you know, Will, which that's true. Will would always vote for Ava. And I was like, plus she has Kelly and Lauren. We all know that. They're all, you can't sit next to Ava. But I use with Ava, kind of the reverse. I was like, you know, Morgan, you know, if you tell her these things. Morgan doesn't know about the Will vote. She has no idea that Vinnie was part of that, you know, and also, you know that Vinnie didn't want to take Morgan to final two. Like, you can tell her. Like, if you tell her, maybe it'll cause distress and she'll use the veto on you and then we can all stay and then meet. You were final too. Yay. And I couldn't believe it worked, but I remember it worked a little too well because I was like, whoa. I want her to have this conversation with Morgan, not the whole house. And so I remember being like, oh, no, this worked a little too good. Because this is not what I wanted. I wanted a one on one with her and Morgan not to blow up the whole house. I didn't want that. I will admit that that was a little bit. I was scared for my game.

[B]

Well, he pissed her off because when he finally told her he was voting her out, she. She was like, you've. He'd been stringing her along for days for no reason.

[A]

Yeah, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I knew she was trying, but I didn't know Vince was actually saying he was gonna keep her away.

[B]

And the thing, too, is, like, he. Like, he was telling people, I know that if I don't take out Morgan, I don't deserve to win the game. Like, he was, like, saying these things when he had no intention, seemingly, of even doing those things. Like, I know I need to keep you, and I know that not keeping you, you is doing what Morgan wants me to do.

[A]

Didn't make sense. Didn't make sense. Did it make sense at all? But I was so happy that everything. I was like, well, this is really. I'm thinking I'm getting a good edit at this point because I'm like, I am, like, working it here. Like, I am pulling strings. I convinced Ava to do this. Now she's blowing up. I'm like, clearly, I'm gonna get that in the edit. No, of course not.

[B]

You get. You know, people. People talked about Steve Moses and regards to your game because he all. He cut Vanessa, and a lot of people comparing Morgan to Vanessa. But Steve Moses also can relate to his game not being shown the episode.

[A]

I don't know why they do that, but I'm like. I felt like it would change. I knew the first half of the game for sure it wouldn't change because socially, it was kind of. You know what I'm saying? Like, I wasn't in the leaderboard for winning the game at that point, but I felt like once it started, once Rachel went home and then I. I kept myself over Will. I was hopeful, a great edit after that because that was hard work.

[B]

What I will say is I feel like they did start making some amount of effort toward the end to show you more, but from my perspective, it was clear they still never, like, believed in you in the way that they were gonna put together a really impressive montage, whatever clip for you. They were just, like, showing your diary rooms more often toward the end, which they kind of had to do anyway because there were less people.

[A]

There's nobody there. Yeah. Boo.

[B]

All right, well, I know you've got to run, so we'll try to wrap up quickly here.

[A]

I'm like, ah.

[B]

Of course you end up winning the game. Love the line. I turned my enemies into allies, and Vince turned his allies into enemies because it perfectly summed up your games. But that is. That is the season. Any. Any Other thoughts? Anything else you want to say before we wrap up?

[A]

I feel like you've covered a lot. I also found out a lot about the show that I obviously did not know. And I probably won't even know from watching the show because they probably, you know, they only show such minuscule moments. I feel like I'm proud of the game I played, despite some criticism. Granted, I received, like, no criticism from Life Eaters. It's mostly from the cast, casual viewers. But I'm surprised how many things work that I didn't necessarily know worked that I'm surprised about watching, like, some of the edits you made. I'm like, oh, my gosh, they went back verbatim. And like you said, I use. So I'm very, like, pleasantly surprised about that. I know people are talking a lot about. There's, like, rumors, like, about all winter season or whatever. And in several interviews, I'm asked, like, would I go back? I would go back and hopefully they do my edit justice. If I say.

[B]

Well, listen, it's actually listen what I will say if you do play again, it's better for you that the edit was this way.

[A]

Yes, you know, you're right. You're right, because people underestimate me, which I think is good. But I guess my message is just to the underdogs. I feel like the whole season, everybody in the cast underestimating besides Will, but that's probably Will and maybe Rachel. Those are probably the only two.

[B]

Can you believe Will told people your secret in the jury?

[A]

And you know what's funny? I don't know if it showed online. I made him promise to make sure Rachel would say something, actually. And I made him promise that he and Rachel. He would tell Rachel not to say anything, and then he did. But maybe I think it worked out.

[B]

I think it worked out because I think it might have been. It might have been risky to leave it to the last second to help shift the perspective. So, you know, maybe it helps.

[A]

No, I think it helped because it probably got people thinking about me and that I'm so smarter than I actually let on, sooner than my final two speech. So I think it worked out, but. Well, loose lips will convince me that. That one week that Ava didn't put me. His face told it all. His face told it all. But, yeah, overall, I'm like, I'm so happy to come on here and, you know, discuss things with people like you who actually watched everything happen. And thank you for recognizing my game. And, yeah, thank you to all the. The fans and the supporters. I'm unbelievably pleased with how many supporters I actually have. Despite the edit, that part surprises me. The Twitter part surprised me because I obviously didn't get on Twitter until like four days ago and it's already growing. That platform is already growing and I just got it. So it just shows me that I had some impact, maybe not on the show, but definitely to the live feeders. So shout out to all the live feeders who listen.

[B]

At least from my perspective, your kind of win is the most meaningful to me and I know to a lot of people because this show, it can often beat you down with the systems in place that rewards a certain kind of play. And so to see somebody who is able to overcome that and come out on the other side and win is really inspiring and really like reminds, I think at least myself and I know a lot of others why they watch the show in the first place. So thank you for your perseverance and your ability to, to stick it out and to take home the win. Thank you for sticking with me well past your, your engagement. And as I mentioned before at the start of the podcast, check out my book. Anyone? Tarmstrom.com if you want a copy, I can send you one. Ashley.

[A]

Yes. What?

[B]

Yes. And we'll be back with more deep dives. We are going to be talking with Rachel in a. In a little bit, so stay tuned for that. Ashley, where. Where can people find you? What? Where. What's the platform you're going?

[A]

Yes, I am on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok and Blue Sky. My instagram and my TikTok are Ashley Hollis underscore Ashley Y H O L L I S underscore. And then my Twitter is Ashley Hollis 2 underscores my blue blue Sky. Good question. Ashley Hollis something find me. I think it's like Ashley Hollis at Blue sky or something like that. But I can tweet my Blue sky so you guys can find me on there too.

[B]

Yes. All right, well, thank you all so much for joining us. Thank you, Ashley, for, for enduring me and we will see all of you next time.

[A]

Thank you.