BB27 Finale Recap

Summary

RHAP: We Know Big Brother – BB27 Finale Recap (September 29, 2025)

Episode Overview

The BB27 Finale Recap is a deep-dive panel discussion breaking down one of the most dramatic and unpredictable Big Brother finales in years. Hosted by Rob Cesternino, with panelists Taran Armstrong, Aman Adwin, Melissa Denny, and Puya, the episode unpacks Ashley's cunning underdog victory, Vince's heartbreaking unraveling, surprising competition outcomes, the edit disparity, finale moments, jury management, BB history context, and more, featuring memorable quotes, passionate debates, and a surprise drop-in from BB19 winner Josh Martinez.

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Main Theme

The episode’s core focus is on analyzing the BB27 finale, particularly Ashley’s unexpected, yet masterfully executed win, and how the result rewrites the season’s narrative and cements her place in Big Brother history. The hosts explore gameplay, jury management, finale performances, the show's editing, and how this season stands out compared to others.

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Panel and First Impressions

• Panelists: Rob Cesternino (host), Taran Armstrong, Aman Adwin, Melissa Denny, Puya
• Opening Mood: High excitement, shock, and approval for the finale's unpredictability and pacing.

“What a finale. I literally had no idea what was going to happen. I was pacing around the house the whole time, like, oh my God. What’s happening?”
– Melissa Denny [04:04]

“This has been a ridiculous season and it had such a ridiculous and phenomenal ending.”
– Taran Armstrong [03:02]

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Ashley's Surprising and Historic Victory

The Final HOH

• Ashley won the final HOH (part 3) in a landslide against Morgan, who’d been the season's comp beast.
• Morgan's exhaustion and emotional turmoil (from arguing with Vince and anticipated betrayal) possibly contributed to her loss.

“Ashley, like, smoked her. That’s the biggest, most dominant performance I’ve seen in this version of the competition.”
– Taran Armstrong [07:53]

“You play 83 days and you’re on the brink of a potential $750,000 decision, ... The energy may run out at some point. You're on fumes.”
– Puya [09:35]

Jury Vote Speculation

• Panel debated if Morgan could have beaten Ashley if taken to final two; consensus is it would have been close, possibly a 4-3 vote.

“I think it would have been really close.”
– Melissa Denny [11:02]

Ashley's Unique Trajectory

• Only two competition wins (the first eligible comp, and the last HOH), yet she won via social strategy and behind-the-scenes gameplay.

“We have a winner that won two only. That's all you need sometimes is two. And I think that is the lesson we need people to take home from this.”
– Puya [09:35]

The Jury, Finale Speeches, and Social Game Mastery

Ashley’s Pitch: Prepared, Passionate, Unapologetic

• Delivered a “masterclass” jury performance, emphasizing strategic alliances (the Judges Alliance), adaptability, and under-the-radar moves.
• Revealed she’s a lawyer, shocking housemates and vindicating her strategic persona.

“She had one of the most dynamic final twos, speeches and question-answering sessions that I think we've ever seen.”
– Rob Cesternino [21:12]

Vince’s Downfall: Unprepared, Defensive, Lacked Ownership

• Struggled under tough jury questioning, failed to own his manipulations, lost composure.
• Received pointed questions about emotional manipulation and loyalty, eliciting laughter and skepticism from jury.

“He used a lot of the points Morgan gave him which unfortunately weren't that great. Talking about being in the judges alliance … every time she said something, he would be like, and I also was covered on all sides and it's like, ooh, like she got there first and you're reheating her nachos.”
– Taran Armstrong [25:07]

“Vince treated Ashley like she was never going to be a winner … she’s meanwhile treating this game like a winner-go-home every day.”
– Puya [23:34]

The Jury’s Perspective

• Jury management highlighted as pivotal: Ashley sealed votes by bonding with jurors prior to their exit; Vince and Morgan exhausted themselves in futile, circular arguments.

“Ashley was downstairs talking to Keanu, talking to Kelly, talking to Ava and making sure that she had their votes on their way out the door.”
– Taran Armstrong [35:40]

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Context in Big Brother History

The panel compared Ashley’s victory to famous BB outcomes:

• Steve vs. Vanessa (BB17): Ashley’s under-edited, underestimated trajectory echoed Steve’s upset.
• Kayla vs. Paris (BB Can): Ashley’s late-game clutch mirrored Paris.
• Taylor (BB24): Jury management, winning over departing jurors, similar.
• General consensus: Ashley’s win is a blend—an “underrated” player who nailed a critical endgame pivot.

“It reminded me a lot also of Taylor in the way that as Ashley was able to win people over on their way out the door … All very impressive stuff.”
– Taran Armstrong [14:48]

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The Editing Controversy

• The TV edit downplayed Ashley’s gameplay, frustrating live-feed fans.
• The hosts call out the production for comp- and drama-heavy episodes while underrepresenting social strategy.

“She was the co-creator of the Judges Alliance … She certainly kicked it into even a further gear later on. But she's always been a player …”
– Taran Armstrong [15:39]

“You have no one to blame but yourself when you do under edit some of these people who end up being endgame players.”
– Puya [18:38]

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Vince’s Collapse and the “Fix Him” Factor

Part 2 HOH Breakdown

• Vince self-destructed in the part two HOH comp, succumbing to a spiral of self-doubt, exhaustion, and anxiety.

“It was rough because … you get so defeated … I see pain a lot of the time from him and I just hope that he gets out of this and he's just able to get what he needs.”
– Aman Adwin [41:37]

Vince as an Unwitting Antagonist

• Vince’s arc—always “almost” winning, then fumbling—provided narrative fuel, emotional engagement, and a sense of tragic inevitability.

“He really did keep so much of the energy in this season going for the 83 days.”
– Rob Cesternino [47:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Reactions to Ashley’s Victory

“Ashley won, I won. Taylor won. It’s a great night.”
– Taran Armstrong [05:15]

On Jury Speeches

“Ashley, like, smoked her. That's the biggest, most dominant performance I've seen in this version of the competition.”
– Taran Armstrong [07:53]

“She put on a masterclass in the last few days … Meanwhile, Morgan is like, Vince, I'm so tired, I can't even think right now.”
– Taran Armstrong [21:52]

On Vince’s Final Two Speech

“When he was asked if the tears were genuine, if he emotionally manipulated. He said, I didn't emotionally manipulate you. And that is just false … He needed to own it if he had any chance of winning.”
– Taran Armstrong [25:07]

On the Editing

“I will fault the people who only watch the TV show and are told by people that don't … and still say nah, you’re wrong, my read is better.”
– Taran Armstrong [16:47]

On the Jury Segments

“I loved it. I thought it was great. At first, I thought it was just Jesse … when they were like, oh, it's about getting screwed over by a twist. Like, I thought that was excellent.”
– Melissa Denny [67:16]

On America’s Favorite Player (AFP)

• AFP went overwhelmingly to Keanu, with panel discussion about Rachel’s divisiveness with casuals.

“I did what I usually do before the finale, and I peaked the Facebook post … and all the posts were basically, ah, we're just here to see who gets AFP. We're just here to watch Keanu get AFP.”
– Puya [52:34]

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[74:08] – Surprise Guest: Josh Martinez (BB19 Winner)

Josh drops by to share insights and relate his own BB journey to Ashley and Vince’s storylines.

“I know Ashley’s gonna get shit because people are gonna … Vince played a better game, but it’s not about that. … Jury management is everything.”
– Josh Martinez [74:34]

“What Vince did wrong was his game … was just so slow … lying to a point where it’s like … let these people know you’re playing them. Own your shit. … I think he tried to own it a little bit tonight, but it was too late.”
– Josh Martinez [75:12]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:23 Rob kicks off the recap of the finale night and introduces panel
• 05:04 Ashley’s draft pick triumph
• 06:51–09:35 Deep dive on the final competitions, Morgan vs. Ashley, Vince’s exhaustion
• 12:03–15:27 Contextualizing Ashley’s win in BB history
• 15:39–20:02 Discussion of Ashley’s true gameplay vs. TV edit
• 21:12–32:19 Analysis of jury speeches, management, and psychological gameplay
• 34:00 America’s Favorite Player outcome (Keanu)
• 38:34–44:41 Vince’s mental game shortcomings
• 56:37 Panel debates Keanu as future returnee
• 65:11–70:56 “Mastermind” twist/lore segment and Eric Stein’s cameo
• 74:08–80:10 Guest: Josh Martinez, comparing past and present BB wins
• 85:38–88:44 Discussion of season popularity and rise in reality TV “zeitgeist”
• 93:12–104:57 Finale reunion, pre-jury segment, BB history celebration, production notes
• 106:25 Panel final thoughts and reflections on an unpredictable season

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Additional Highlights

Editing & Production

• Panel bemoans the show's unwillingness/inability to balance TV-friendly narratives with true gameplay.
• Calls for better recognition of nuanced games and more in-depth finale reunions or jury segments.

Gender & Diversity

• Milestone: First time two women have won back-to-back since Lisa & June.
• Noteworthy discussion of diversity’s impact on recent seasons.
• Recognition of shifts in casting and comps leading to more equitable outcomes.

Community & Fandom

• Ratings, engagement, and social media uptake notably higher this season.
• Cross-pollination with shows like The Traitors, Survivor, and Love Island brings fresh eyes and energy.

Mastermind & “Breadcrumb” Twists

• Lighthearted critique of the “Mastermind” subplot and the show’s attempt to reward/acknowledge players previously “screwed by a twist.”
• Panel wishes for more alumni and playful clues, but generally enjoys seeing Eric Stein receive overdue recognition.

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Closing Thoughts

• The BB27 finale delivered a compelling, unpredictable, and satisfying conclusion, with Ashley’s cerebral and under-edited journey culminating in a masterful win.
• The season and finale encapsulated both the best and worst of Big Brother: Invisible gameplay giving way to a spectacular finish, editing controversies, heartbreak, and big personalities driving the story.
• The panel, and guest Josh Martinez, underline the importance of jury management, social game, and owning your strategy at the end.
• The episode concludes with excitement for Big Brother’s continuing evolution, renewed enthusiasm from fans, and encouragement for kindness toward houseguests post-season.

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“I haven't been this invested in a season in so long … All of them deserved it. Even with how messy Vince played, like, still very deserving of a win. So it was a very satisfying finale for me as a fan.”
— Josh Martinez [77:59]

Transcript

[Puya]

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[Rob Cestrino]

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[Aman Adwin]

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[Taryn Armstrong]

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[Melissa Denny]

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[Aman Adwin]

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[Josh Martinez]

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[Aman Adwin]

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[Rob Cestrino]

Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cestrino back here for our finale coverage of Big Brother 27 and what a night of surprises it was as we saw Ashley Crown the winner of Big Brother 27 and so many other interesting steps along the way. Something for everybody Here tonight. Whether you wanted Ashley to win or Vince to lose, you got your wish tonight as we will break it all down with the panel, of course. Back with us, after a marathon run this summer, it's Taryn Upstream time. How are you, Rob?

[Taryn Armstrong]

I can't describe how I am. This has been a ridiculous season and it had such a ridiculous and phenomenal ending. So very happy to be here.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. I would say that it was a two hour finale, but it moved. This was a really good finale.

[Aman Adwin]

To.

[Taryn Armstrong]

The standards of finales that they produced. Sure.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah.

[Taryn Armstrong]

It was a good result. It was a good result. So, you know.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. All right, there you go. And then let's, of course bring in here with us tonight. It's Puyazili. Puya, how are you?

[Puya]

I'm doing well. I took inspiration off the finale and I'm dressed for one, apparently with a beanie on. So here we are. Having a good time? No, I thought this was a very fun finale. I did. I mean, to Terence point. In comparison to other finales, this was a home run. Absolutely. I feel like there wasn't many dull moments and there was a lot of weird stuff to talk about. So I'm here for it.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay. All right. I don't think I've gotten to podcast with this person since we did the draft. It's Melissa Denny. Melissa, how are you?

[Melissa Denny]

I'm doing great. What a finale. I literally had no idea what was going to happen. I think this was like one of the most exciting big brother finales we've had in a while. Just because I was pacing around the house like the whole time just like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. What's happening? What's happening? I. I didn't know who was going to win. I didn't know who was going to, like, cut who. And it was just. It was great.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. And here tonight with us as well, it's Aman Adwin. Aman, how are you?

[Aman Adwin]

I'm great. I'm happy to be back. It's been a crazy, crazy season and I think that the finale is extremely fitting. Obviously not the finale that I wanted, but.

[Rob Cestrino]

But for your draft interests or for your personal.

[Aman Adwin]

Strictly for my draft, but otherwise.

[Melissa Denny]

Otherwise what?

[Aman Adwin]

Otherwise phenomenal. Winner. So happy for her and I'm glad we're going to be able to talk about it. But yeah.

[Rob Cestrino]

Brought up the draft. Congratulations to Taryn for win. Winning the draft with his draft pick, Ashley. Taryn, how did you do it?

[Taryn Armstrong]

I listen, I saw she was. She was the first pick off the board. Very number One. Yes. You know, I, I, I really, I really thought she'd be good, and she. She pulled through. I mean, not only did she pull through, she pulled through in such a phenomenal and fun way. She won in a way that is, like, my favorite way for people to win, which is doing so on the outskirts, doing so behind the scenes, not being able to lead from the front, not being able to win competitions and finding a way to overcome that deficiency and overcome that adversity and just crushing it in the finals. Ashley won, I won. Taylor won. It's a great night.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. Okay, so lots of excitement and lots to talk through here tonight as we break it all down, and we're very excited to be live with you here tonight. So we'll see. You can post questions, comments. We'll see if we get to them later on in the show, if they're good enough. Okay. But I guess let's just talk through the big news items to come out of this finale. And of course, I think we have to start with Ashley's surprising win in part three of the final hoh. We'll talk about Vince's crash out in part two of the hoh. But, yeah, this was. I really was surprised to see Morgan, who had been on such a hot streak, really just also collapse in part three of the final hoh.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Rob, you shouldn't be surprised because she's running on, like, three hours of sleep every single night because Vince has been pestering her about being taken to the final two every single night.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah, well, he got his wish. He did get to the.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Finally did.

[Melissa Denny]

I was worried about Morgan's performance in the competition after their long, like, argument last night where she just kept being like, I can't even think. I'm so tired. Like, I don't know how I'm gonna perform tomorrow. I'm exhausted. And they just kept arguing. I mean, I watched so many hours of this argument, and it was all for nothing. So, I don't know. They kept it interesting at least. But, yeah, I. I was worried for her performance. I was like, go to sleep. You need rest. You need to stop doing this. Don't talk about this right now. Like, yeah, it was a very, very surprising. I mean, because it wasn't even like, oh, well, they got down to the end, and then Ashley won that competition. Ashley, like, smoked her.

[Taryn Armstrong]

That's the biggest.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah, that's the biggest, most dominant performance.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I've ever seen in this version of the competition. I've never seen it in that and that fast.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah, it was it was. It was crazy, especially considering, you know, how much studying she had, like Morgan had done. So in order, like, to sort of like, see, because you could see, because she talked immediately about after as far as, like, how she knew the answer. You could see the answer flash in her eyes. And then that doubt just like, just really creeped in. And then the minute that you're in that vacillation stage, it's either you either stick with what you got first or. Or it's over. So, yeah, it was, it was wild to watch.

[Taryn Armstrong]

And you could tell that's what it was too, because she knew the right answer to that final question. She got wrong. And Julie was like, I need an answer. And she was pulling out the correct one, put it back and took the one that she had still and knew it was wrong. And it's just like, like the fire had left her eyes. Like she wasn't even going to try to be like, no, this is my answer. She just didn't have it in her. And I think I can only imagine that it's because she spent so much time arguing and, and so exhausted from the, from the sleep deprivation. She definitely knew some of those answers and just wasn't able to. To pull through.

[Melissa Denny]

Plus, I'm sure it was weighing on her that, like, she was probably gonna cut Vince and he was going to be so devastated about it. Like, I mean, that she kept talking about, like, having a friend after this, blah, blah, blah. And you just know that she's thinking, like, I'm about to cut my best friend, like he's about to be devastated, and that's got to of get nervous. I don't know. It would make me nervous.

[Puya]

Yeah, I mean, you know, you play 83 days and you're on the brink of a potential $750,000 decision, and then you've already messed up one question, you're behind by one. You're the nerves are going to pile on at that point. I really do think so. So I think that and the sleep deprivation and the decision, it's a lot. And you know, Morgan won how many competitions to get to that point. You can't win them all. And you know that. That luck may run out at some point. The energy may run out at some point. You're on fumes it all. I will say also, I wanted to add this on. Julie at the beginning did mention 43 competitions. I really am happy that we have a winner that won two only. That's all you need sometimes is two. And I think that is the lesson we need people to take home from this.

[Rob Cestrino]

It was so interesting that she bookended the season of really that it was like the first one that she could compete in and then the last one of the season. So it's so interesting that she. The way that she ended up doing that at the very beginning and the very end of the season. We heard tonight that Morgan said she was going to cut Vince. She would have taken Ashley to the final two. I really feel like that that would have been a toss up with the way that I felt like that the jury was so pro Ashley. But would Morgan have pulled it out?

[Melissa Denny]

That's the question. I feel like. I was just wondering that. I was thinking it has to be.

[Taryn Armstrong]

The first question people ask.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah, yeah. Like, who would you have voted for had it been Morgan versus Ashley? Like, what happens then? That would have been. I feel like it would have been really close.

[Aman Adwin]

I feel like based off of how the jury reacted to her being the final juror, it makes me lean towards. She probably would have edged Ashley out. But also with Ashley's performance with these final questions, it wouldn't. She would not have made it easy for more. I don't think that it would have been a unanimous vote either way. I think it would have been four, three, scratch. Yeah, it would have been very close, I think.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I think Rachel and Will were for sure locked in. I think Ava is still probably an Ashley vote. And so it comes down to can. Does she have Keanu? Does she have Kelly?

[Puya]

I think to me, seeing Rachel's reaction when she sees that Morgan's the one out and not Vince, like they were predicting those tears. That reaction was remnant. That was a Our girl one. That was a. Ashley has won this. I think if it was Vince, like, okay, well, Morgan's probably going to win. That was a feeling of that's my girl. She won. She got this. I can't believe she's still there.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Cestrino]

I'd love to try to put Ashley's win in perspective here as we look at this through the prism of Big brother history. Is this Steve taking out Vanessa to Win Big Brother 17? Is it. Is it something different than that?

[Aman Adwin]

I think it's like maybe just to. Maybe just a smidge. It's like the diet ish version of it. I think because Vanessa was such a. Like, we. Like, there's nothing more that I can say about Vanessa that we haven't said for, like, almost 10 years at this point. No. 10 years at this point. So I do think that it's reminiscent of that I think that it has like some of the, it hits some of the same beats, but again, I don't, I don't, I don't look at Morgan and think Vanessa, you know what I mean? Because Morgan was a much more contained person throughout the entire game. I mean, she had her moments, but you just don't think of it as much of a beautiful mess as, as Vanessa was, for sure.

[Melissa Denny]

I was wondering if this is more like Kayla versus Paris.

[Puya]

BB Cancer. I think this is more BB Cancer.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah. Like up until the very end, you know, Paris wasn't winning anything. And then she wins the final three. Hoh. And she brings Kayla and everyone's like, oh man, like Kayla's been dominating. It's going to be Kayla. And then Paris has this amazing final two performance in regards to like her speech and questions and you could just tell the jury was like, okay, yep, that's it. And it feels very similar here where Ashley really, you know, that final. Oh my God. I feel like that was one of the best jury questioning we've like ever seen. I felt like she was completely prepared for every question.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I mean, I, I think that obviously there's, there's, it's reminiscent of Steve in the sense that Ashley's game was very under edited like Steve's was and she ends up cutting, you know, Morgan and he cut Vanessa. I would love again to know what kind of chance she had against Morgan herself because that obviously is something worth considering if you're making this kind of comparison. Honestly, it reminded me a lot also of Taylor in the way that as Ashley was able to win people over on their way out the door. The fact that Keanu leaves the game and Ashley fan, Ava leaves the game and Ashley fan after hating her guts earlier in the season, she had Will and, and Rachel in the way that like Taylor had, you know, like Joseph and, and Michael, you know, campaigning theoretically for her cause and then comes out and crushes a speech. Obviously a very different kind of speech. But the way that she was able to lull the people in the game into a false sense of security while gaining traction outside the house, the way that Vince consistently underestimated her and thought that she was not valuable in the game, thought that she wasn't worthy of a win. And it was that perception that allowed her to get into a final three scenario where they both, or no matter what happened, she was going to a final two despite the fact that she had secretly won over these jury votes. All very impressive stuff. None of that I would say is very Steve, like, but, but like I said, I think there's maybe a combination of a lot of things but overall just very fun and very impressive.

[Rob Cestrino]

Was this a throwback to the old classic strategy of go to sleep the first half of the game and then wake up at the end?

[Taryn Armstrong]

No, absolutely no. Because that's, that's what, that's what people, I think the, especially the casual audience is going to think. They're going to think she slept the whole way through because they do not know and they do not understand the things that Ashley was doing all along the way. And she was doing things all along the way and like even from the beginning through through the middle she was the co creator of the judges alliance. The thing that carried the second half of the season. She certainly kicked it into even a further gear later on. But she's always been a player and she talked about it in her speech. She wasn't, you know, wasn't making it up. She really did do all of those things. And so you know, I, unfortunately because of the edit think a lot of people will think that, but it is definitely not the case.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah, I mean in fairness to people who watch the show, I mean Ashley was not a major character along the way through much of the middle of the season. I mean there was everything with the shower in the beginning and then of late she certainly has been a big figure. But you can't fault people who are watching the television show if that's the story they come away with with you.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Can'T, you have to fault production. But what I will say is I will fault the people who only watch the TV show and are told by people that don't only watch the TV show and still say nah, you're wrong, my read is better. Yeah.

[Aman Adwin]

And it's like, you know, again it's one of those things where production glaringly just doesn't really understand sometimes what they have in their hands. This isn't the first time that we've seen someone that plays a more underhanded game or understated game and the edit is just sort of non existent until you kind of have to throw them up there because there's nobody else in the house. It's like if we could zero in on what's actually happening on feeds a little more, you know, then this would be, I feel like more people would be have gone into this finale with as much like curiosity as many of us did. But until production makes that happen, you know, we're just always going to get these heavy handed edits and I Don't think that it's particularly hard. You don't necessarily have to give Armstrong analysis. You just have to give her a little shout out every day. You know what I mean? Like, just be like, hey, checking in on Ashley. This is what she did this week. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know why.

[Puya]

Well, I think that's the problem is that when they. When you are editing the show to be like, TV first. And by TV first, I mean you reckon that comps first. That's what matters more. That's the focal point. And it's mostly D rooms from the comp stuff. And then it's a little bit of flash and a little bit of fireworks of, like, drama. You are setting up the show for this edit to be what matters. But then the jury's not getting that edited version of the show to vote on. They're getting what they saw with their own eyes play out the entire season. That's the little itty bitty stuff.

[Aman Adwin]

That's the.

[Puya]

Every conversation has mattered, Every second of the day has mattered in some capacity. Every con, like every situation you find yourself in is a way for you to get a new reaction or change the way you're playing the game, change your positioning. They don't put that on the show and you lose all of that on the show. Sacrificed for goo shots and. And Mastermind and Zingbot fighting about who slept with whose mother, which, my God, now we have to unpack that a whole new way with Zingbot because what happened. But I think that's the problem. And, and you. The reality is you can't fit that into 340. Well, some of these episodes were an hour and a half this season. You could have maybe fit in some more, but it's hard to do that. So I get that. But at the same time, it's like you have no one to blame but yourself when you do under edit some of these people who end up being end game players.

[Melissa Denny]

I think it's also hard because I'm sure did not assume Ashley would be the winner for, like, the majority of the season. So they were like, well, these little things that she's doing or like whatever small strategy things she's. Or small conversations that she's having. It's like, okay, but Morgan just want to comp. So, like, Morgan's gonna win or Vince is gonna win. So it, you know, this Ashley, little Ashley thing doesn't really matter for the edit. And so I can understand why. But it's like that. That's the difference between your editing in real time, as the season is going, you don't know who the winner is, versus, like, being able to be like, okay, this is the winner. All right, let's show the audience how that happened. And that's the difference between Big Brother. But I wouldn't. I wouldn't change it because I'd like it live.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah, no, I think that's a good point, because, you know, product, like a lot of people, I'm sure they're as fallible as a regular. You know, a viewer is like, they're going to have their own assumptions, they're going to have their own biases. For certain players. I mean, we've seen throughout the years production outing themselves over who they think is going to do what or who they want to be the winner. So I think that. That, that's definitely fair. And I just. Yeah, I'm sure whoever. Whoever was the storyboard editor for putting that little piece of Ashley talking about, I'm gonna win. I'm gonna cut Morgan, and I'm gonna become the winner. I'm sure they are, like, punching the air right now. Be like, yes, we got that in there. Just in case.

[Rob Cestrino]

She has the great scene in the kitchen where it's like the close. The closed captioning, the lower is saying, like, I think I'm gonna vote up Morgan and win the game. Like, it's a great moment of her all alone in the kitchen. She had one of the most dynamic final twos, speeches and question answering sessions that I think we've ever seen. And by comparison to Vince, who seemed very ill prepared and really just like, searching for it throughout his answering of.

[Melissa Denny]

The questions, when he asked for, like, a repeat of the question or whatever, I was like, oh, no, this is not going well. Like, he. He started off like, okay. And I was like, all right, let's see how he compare with Ashley. But then, like, midway through his answer, he's like, I'm sorry, what was the question again? Or what was the second part of the question? And I was like, oh, man. Like, she just seemed so, so prepared and, like, she was ready for any question. And she had an answer, like, a good answer, too. It wasn't just some like, oh, I, you know, I played with my heart or whatever, something like that. It was literally like, I did this and then I did that, and then I used this person in this way, and I worked with this person in this way. And like, like, everyone was just like, yeah, she did do that. So it was very impressive.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I mean, she Put on a masterclass in the last few days of spending a little bit of time with Morgan because she had already put in so much work to make sure that Morgan would take her over Vince if Morgan were to win the hoh. Put in a little bit of work with Morgan, give her some programming, give her some lines to tell Vince. Then Morgan would spend hours and hours and hours giving Vince Ashley's lines. At some points, telling Vince, you need to go talk to Ashley because she knows, and then spending a little bit of time with Vince, giving him some ammunition to run off to talk to Morgan about. All the while, she's just napping, practicing her speech, spending some more time resting, practicing more of her speeches, talking about, you know, how she would answer different questions in. In both scenarios of sitting next to either one of them. Meanwhile, Morgan, as Melissa pointed out, is like, like, Vince, I'm so tired, I can't even think right now. And it's just like. Like, yeah, you know? And Vince wasn't even coming close to prepping for this in the way that he should have been. He didn't even bring a finale outfit to. To. To the show, clearly.

[Melissa Denny]

And he was wearing a sweatshirt.

[Taryn Armstrong]

He turned down Ashley's advice of wearing the suit costume from the veto competition. So right there, pretty bad luck.

[Rob Cestrino]

That suit, you know, that was.

[Aman Adwin]

I'm sorry, that's. That was kind of iconic for me. Like, him, like, it's just so representative of Vin. A person to show up to finale. You have these absolute dimes of women sitting across from you on the couch in these beautiful finale outfits, and you're just there in your van, listen in your sweater, like, what is going on, bro? I'm gonna.

[Puya]

I'm gonna rinse a joke I've already made before, but it really felt like the created character that's in a cutscene where everyone else is wearing formal, and he's just there not in the same attire as at all. I think Vince's biggest curse, this game, aside from we've talked about this for months at this point, where if he was even a little bit more confident in his game or how he is as a player, he can do better. I think the extra bit of damage that went wrong here, y', all, is that Vince treated Ashley like she was never going to be a winner. He treated her like she was. It was pathetic to the game that ashley even gets 75k for being taken to the end. She doesn't deserve that 75k. When you're treating someone like a preseason game and you're not going to put the bring the star power that and then she's meanwhile treating this game like a winner. Go home every day. I'm sorry, who's gonna win? The person who's coming and pretending that this is do or die. When you are not saying it's do or die. You can keep saying that you've been waiting for this moment for 10 years. Then why did you not show up for that 11th hour? You know, 10 years and you don't have a finale off of 10 years. 10 years and finally you don't have 10 years.

[Aman Adwin]

I mean he was like what did he say at the end of her speech? Yeah, well, I guess I really am unemployed. I'm God. My God.

[Rob Cestrino]

That was his answer to her reveal that she's a lawyer.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Yeah, I actually thought that was good. I thought his final speech was his best moment.

[Rob Cestrino]

Best parting was strong. He did do a good job with that. He gathered himself after the questioning where it was just like a complete TKO.

[Taryn Armstrong]

For Ashley which makes sense because Vince crumbles in confrontation and he always tries to please the person he's talking to. And when he's given some space to actually talk about some. Some of his game, some of which was impressive. The best points he was making were how he burned people and they still came back to him. That was the strongest thing that he had. But when he was asked earlier if the tears were genuine, if the, if he emotionally manipulated. He said I didn't emotionally manipulate you. And that is just false. It's just not even remotely true. And he needed to own. Own it. If he had any chance of winning, he needed to own it. And do I think he would have won in this spot? I don't think so. I think he had already lost, especially given how strong Ashley's case was. And Ashley's case was very strong. She had very strong points. She knew exactly what she needed to do here which is to embody the shift in perception that she was trying to convey. She had a different look, she spoke differently. She tried to like act a bit more like a lawyer. She was trying to separate herself as much as possible from the perception that they had from her when they were in the game. And I thought that worked very well. And Vince on the other hand was ill prepared. He was trying to please people in his responses. No, no. Still lying to them in his responses. He used a lot of the points Morgan gave him which unfortunately weren't that great. Talking about being in the judges alliance and, and unfortunately for him also Ashley got to a Lot of points before he did. Like, every time she said something, he would be like, and I also was covered on all sides and it's like, ooh, like she got there first and you're reheating her nachos. You know what I mean? Is not working.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah, it was. It's unfortunate because I just feel like Vince needs more confidence. He just needed more confidence and he needed to own his game. Even if he felt like I wasn't emotionally manipulating people. Like, at the very end, you need to be. If people are saying like, well, the fact that you emotionally manipulated us, blah, blah, how do you explain that? Like, just say, like, yeah, I did what I had to do to get here. Like, like, look at me sitting in these final two chairs. I felt like I had to say xyz. Like, you just have to sit there and own it at that point because I feel like telling people in the jury that you're. You didn't actually do what they. They're saying you did or what they thought you did. Like, actually, no, actually you're wrong. That's not going to cut it. You have to just be like, yes, I did that. It's a game. I'm sorry, like outside of this, blah, blah, blah, but it's a game and I had to do what I had to do. Like, that's the way you get it.

[Taryn Armstrong]

He was, he was so clearly blindsided. I know we mentioned this before, but he was so blindsided by Ashley and her entire demeanor. Demeanor. There was a shot on him after Ashley gave one of her first answers and I think there was another shot on him when she's revealed that she was a lawyer where his face is just like slack jawed because as puia said, and I cannot emphasize this enough because it didn't make the episodes ever, but it was, I'm not exaggerating at least, or close to at least a daily thing that he would out of nowhere talk about how much Ashley irritated him, talk about how much she didn't deserve to be here, didn't care to be there. He didn't like that she was making it another round, that she, he didn't like that she was getting carried. His opinion on her was so low and he harped on it so often that when it came to trying to convince Morgan to take him over Ashley, he couldn't even try to argue that Ashley was harder to beat than he was, even though that was clearly true. He couldn't even try to make that argument because he didn't have any ground to Stand on. And he didn't even try because he didn't even believe it. And so to see his reaction to Ashley get up there and make her case was. Was a beautiful thing to see.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah, I think the only thing that he could have done, you know, in addition to. To just owning his game, because, you know, in his first answer, he did, like, he started off by saying, I didn't do that. I didn't do that. And he kind of came around to it at the end of it by saying, well, you know, if I did do this, I apologize. Passion, passion, passion. Yada, yada, yada. I feel like the only way to really give yourself a shot at that point. Point is own your. And, excuse me, own your game. And then on top of that, you need to just talk about a little bit more of. Bring more of the passion out. Bring more of, like, this has been my dream forever. Like, I've wanted this for so long. I was going to be prepared to backstab you. If I had to backstab you, I had to do it because look at Ashley. Look at what Ashley's doing. She is presenting you with facts and evidence. She is a lawyer holding court. Okay, like, a little canned at times, but it achieved everything that you wanted it to achieve. If you need. If you're going to, like, show that, like, you got something to offer too, give us a little. A little bit more of just like the. The wearing it all in your sleeve. Give us that bit. Give us that guy. But like Taren said, he kind of just. He just shriveled a bit, and then I think he regained composure and then gave us something in that last bit, in that last speech. But at that point, he had already been slave. Well, it was over.

[Puya]

One other thing I want to bring up real quick because I have seen people mention this. There were moments where I felt it a little bit. Where did it come off? A little bit too rehearsed? I think in a world, yes, quite a bit. But I don't think any of the jurors cared about that, because at the end of the day, this is all they've done for the last 80 days. This is all that's mattered the last 80 days. And I think part of it, and you could see some of the reactions. Part of it was like, okay, we've been like, you know, for some of them, potentially, like, we like Ashley. Can Ashley deliver? And you could tell based on the applause they were giving her after every answer that she was delivering beyond. Beyond what they had maybe even anticipated. So to Me, it didn't matter that it came off a little bit canned or rehearsed. The passion was there. Even if some of the lines are, Again, this is a750,000 stance. You're doing. Like, they all recognize in that moment that there's going to be a lot of emotion and tension and, like, feeling bare in delivery.

[Melissa Denny]

And this doesn't matter anymore. But I did want to say that I think Vince's strategy for trying to keep us have Morgan choose him and take him to the final two was wrong. I don't think that he should have been saying to her, oh, like, please, no, I'm so. I can't believe you're doing this to me. I'm so upset with you. Blah, blah, blah, like, being sad about it. Because first of all, it would have been better if, like, Taryn said he plays up how Ashley could win, etc. But even if he doesn't think Ashley can win, I think he should have played it up as, like, yay, I'm so happy. Like, you're. You're going to take me. We're going to be in the final two together. Yes. This is so good for us. Like, I'm so happy for us because then that makes her feel. Feel very, very guilty about not taking him. Versus he's already mad at her. What does she have to lose? He's mad now, so, okay, so I guess now he won't be mad, but now he knows that I was considering not taking him, so that's like, I guess, oh, well. Versus he's so happy. He's like, we're in this together. It's the two of us. Then. Then you feel like you really will break his heart if you. If you vote him out. So, yeah, I think that that should have been the strategy. You want him manipulated.

[Rob Cestrino]

Manipulative.

[Melissa Denny]

Yes. I mean, look, I don't care if manipulative. I love that. It's great, but I don't like it if he won't own it. And I feel like you've got to own it.

[Rob Cestrino]

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[Puya]

Follow Evan, Gwen and Markie as they vie for their students divided attention. See why Cosmopolitan called its premiere season.

[Rob Cestrino]

A master class of comedy, while glamour raved. It's the year's funniest and most heartwarming new comedy series.

[Puya]

FX's English TV teacher.

[Rob Cestrino]

All new Thursdays on FX. All episodes now streaming on Hulu. I'm Scott Hanson, host of NFL Red Zone. Lowe's knows Sundays hit different when you earn them. We've got you covered with outdoor power equipment from Cobalt and everything you need to weatherproof your deck with Trex decking. Plus with lawn care from Scotts and of course pit boss grills and accessories, you can can get a home field advantage all season long. So get to Lowe's, get it done and earn your Sunday. Lowe's official partner of the NFL. In fairness to Vince, that I do feel like that the questions he was receiving to from the jury were a lot tougher than the questions that Ashley was getting. That the questions that came for Vince were Keanu started. We think you played an emotionally manipulative game that led to horrible jury management, which was a tough one where whereas then the first question to Ashley was, you look beautiful. You played a great social game. Tell us the strategic moves that you made. Then Kelly goes to Vince and says, vince, you did a lot of lying and a lot of crying. How much of that was sincere? So Vince, I think also was doubly like taken aback by, you know, the very pointed questions that he was getting from the jury.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if he was taken aback because he was expecting it, but. But yeah, I Mean, I think that for as much as we can, and we say this every year, for as much as we can nitpick at, you know, performance in the speeches, they very rarely actually matter. And the fact is, Vince did have some of the worst jury management I have ever seen on Big Brother. And Ashley had phenomenal jury management. While Vince and Morgan were busy arguing upstairs every single night, Ashley was downstairs talking to Keanu, talking to Kelly, talking to Ava and making sure that she had their votes on their way out the door. It just, you know, it just is what it is. And. And Ashley did a really great job of it.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. And the way that she spoke was just so confident in terms of how she was. Even if you weren't paying attention to the words that she was saying, just the performance that she had compared to. To Vince just continuously, like losing his train of thought and not really answering the questions to the point where she had so much that Julie had to repeatedly cut off Ashley in her answers. I'd never seen that in the final two.

[Taryn Armstrong]

You need to wrap it up.

[Rob Cestrino]

We have a lot of pre planned segments to get to.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Yeah, we have a lot of stuff to get. I was saying this morning that Ashley's speeches were too long, so it was not surprising, unfortunately. But yeah, they had so many things, things to get to, like talking to Riley and then not talking about Ashley at all before the vote reveal, instead talking about Vince in his final twos. So yeah, they had a lot.

[Rob Cestrino]

Who the accomplice was, of course that mattered.

[Melissa Denny]

We did get the Eric Stein.

[Rob Cestrino]

So, yeah, did you hear me complaining about that?

[Aman Adwin]

I do wonder if this is gonna be like the win in Big Brother for the attorney slash lawyer community that just is like the big. Like it's the beginning of the end for lawyers in this game because I mean, this is. This makes the second lawyer to win Big Brother in the past couple of years. And I know we've had a slew of lawyers that have won Survivor as well because CBS just loves to cast lawyers. But now I'm like, this has become like people have like built up being an attorney in this game so much that I'm like, how is this demographic going to continue? Because I feel like there hasn't been a really cool detective win since Derek. They've tried to. They tried to reheat his nachos a couple of times and it just doesn't. It just doesn't work out. So I do wonder how future attorneys and lawyers will, well, engage with this game.

[Puya]

I personally can't wait for next Season when someone is going to get voted out because people assume they're a lawyer when they are absolutely not a lawyer lawyer. And they're just not. They've convinced themselves that that's who they are and they're hiding it.

[Taryn Armstrong]

They're either a chess player or a lawyer. I'm telling you. I'm telling you.

[Melissa Denny]

I always said, like, I'm not gonna lie about being a lawyer if I am ever in the house. Like, because who cares? It doesn't mean anything. Whatever. Plus, like, I'm sorry. Like, I'm a Red Bull lawyer. Like, that's not. Like, I don't feel like that's super threatening. But now I'm like. Like, I probably would have to lie about it. I don't know. I just say I'm a wing.

[Puya]

Well, meanwhile, Melissa being a Twitch streamer still valid for the final two because that reveal hasn't happened yet, so we will never know what that's gonna look like. My God, I was a bad moment.

[Aman Adwin]

That was another reason why I was pulling for. For Morgan as well, because, like, you know, the gamer community, you know, I was like, all right, you know, get your little shine, you know, get the little Twitch streaming community up in here. That's nice. Good for y'. All. Good for y'. All.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Surprised Julie didn't come to Morgan. And, Morgan, you also had a secret this season. That would have been great.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah.

[Rob Cestrino]

I'd like to talk all a little bit about Vince and ultimately the downfall that he has, especially in part two of the HOH where we had heard that Vince had a big lead and choked. And we didn't see exactly how it played out until tonight when we got to where he had to figure out the combination. And he ends up putting in the days that people were evicted instead of the order that people were evicted. And really is just in great angst as he cannot figure out how to figure win this competition.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I mean, Rob, all season long, Vince has been tanking the games of every one of his allies. It would only be fitting if his last last full act in the game before being taken to the final two was to, as he said said, beat himself. Tank his own game one final time. Maybe tank Morgan's along with him on the way down by keeping her up at night. But, yeah.

[Rob Cestrino]

Did Vince beat himself? If other people beat me, I give.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Credit when credit is due. I beat myself.

[Rob Cestrino]

Did he beat himself or did he get beat?

[Taryn Armstrong]

He beat himself many times.

[Rob Cestrino]

Gives credit where credit is due when it happens. Yeah.

[Puya]

In the interview, ask him, like, did you beat yourself or did you get beat? That's his question. Because I remember very, very vividly BB22, Enzo loses that comp and says, I'm the donkey, Yo, I'm the donkey. I remember being like, man, come on, big yourself up a little bit. You're at the end. This was like that times 1100. Like there were moments of this that were just borderline unwatchable and uncomfortable. But then there was a little bit of the yelly energy, Rob, where I felt like if you injected a tinge of this, it's like if you took a veil of this and put it into your, into your final, that could have been better for you. There was a little heat there. A little heat there that you could have used.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah.

[Rob Cestrino]

From Vince.

[Aman Adwin]

Yes. Put it in the bag, please. Like, what is going on? I, I just, it was. Oh man, it was rough because I feel like maybe a lot of us have been there at some point in our lives where you're, you're just, you're just so down on yourself and you get so defeated and you allow that downward spiral to just take you out. I don't know, I'm not going to play arms like armchair psychologist. I don't know what has been going on in Vince's life up until this point. All I know is that like, I see pain a lot of the time from him and I just hope that like he gets out of this and he's just able to, to get what he needs because I just feel like the confidence is not there, the self esteem is just not there. And like, you cannot continue to beat yourself up like this or you're going to continue to stay where you are. And I just want to see him do better. I just really do.

[Taryn Armstrong]

And this, this is the, this is the thing I think that attracted so many people to him in the game for so long is that he just exudes. I can fix him energy, you know what I mean? Like, you can't help but watch Vince and just feel like you just, you just, you just want to be able to help him. You know what I mean? Just, just help him out. Just make him feel a little better, make him be a little more confident, maybe a little more competent to be a little more confident, but it just doesn't.

[Rob Cestrino]

But what if it could do it?

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah.

[Melissa Denny]

Fix him, guys.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Aman's the one.

[Aman Adwin]

No, see, I, I think, I think because I remember we were talking about this like at the draft and I remember I was like, I kind of like see a little bit of myself in Vince. So I already know that, like, if I were probably in that house, I feel like I would fall victim to, like, the codependency of it all, because it's just like.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah.

[Aman Adwin]

And I feel like Lauren was, like, really in that. Like, you know, I think it's the fact that the both of them choked in a very similar. Like, it's just like.

[Melissa Denny]

Oh.

[Aman Adwin]

Like, that's. That's the kind of consequences that a relationship like that can reap. Like, it's just not. It's just not good. Because where. Where is the positivity? Where is the. The upliftedness? Where, like, where is it. Where is the energy that we need? And it's just. He just couldn't give it to himself when he needed it most. It just sucks.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. I mean, that was a very sad, bad, or entertaining final moment when. When Vince is having all the realizations about the. He can't figure it out. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

[Puya]

Oh, God.

[Aman Adwin]

Oh.

[Rob Cestrino]

And like, Morgan, Frankie Grande realize what's happening.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Like, Frankie's face, too.

[Rob Cestrino]

Like, now, you know.

[Aman Adwin]

You know, Frankie probably said something too, as the production was like, shut the shut.

[Rob Cestrino]

Don't you did.

[Taryn Armstrong]

He was like. He was saying more like, it's just a game. Like. But that's the thing, though. That's the thing is that, like, the. The thing that I can appreciate the most about Vince is how much he cared. And that is a quality that I wish more players had, obviously. I wish that he cared as much as he did without sort of the destructive angle toward himself. Yeah, but. But, like, the thing I think that anybody can appreciate about Vince is how much he poured himself into this game and how much he cared about this game and winning and getting there to, again, extreme degrees. But. But if you can take anything away from. From him as a character, I think that's the biggest thing, especially.

[Aman Adwin]

Sorry. Go Hippia.

[Puya]

Sorry. I'll be quick. Especially. The one thing I want to say is that, you know, looking back at this season, remember this final three, every single person wanted to fight for it until the last seconds of the last day. So I think that's a testament to how much they all wanted it. And that's why I genuinely came into today being like, I have a preference of 1, 2, 3, who I want to win, but if any of them win, I can't be too mad because they all give a damn. And that's all I can ask for is if you're there 80 some days, you give a damn to Win the whole thing.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah, he. He gives me, like, shades of some of the other players or winners that we've seen that where you feel you. It's a gu. Guttural thing. Like, this person needs this. Like, I felt that way when I watched Rachel win during season 13. I felt that way when I watched Josh win in season 19. Event Vince would have won, it would not have been like, the out. Like, the very first outcome that I would have wanted, but I would have known that that was, like, filling something for him that he. Like that he needed. And so it's. It's always great to watch that for anybody.

[Melissa Denny]

I appreciated Vince as a player. Like, and throughout I was. Was like, I don't want Vince to go. I feel like he brings something to the table, and I feel like he's an interesting character and he wants it like you guys said. So I never wanted him to go. Like, I always was like, well, let's keep Vince around. I feel like there's more to his story. Plus, we got to see Taryn's impression of him every single time. So that was like, keep him.

[Taryn Armstrong]

This is not how my story ends, Melissa.

[Puya]

Oh, it better be.

[Rob Cestrino]

That's why he was such a great antagonist for this season. And I think that when you. You look at great antagonists, they. They also want it the most and they're willing to do things to get it that other people aren't willing to do. And that really was Vince. And so I do feel like that the story of this season really was so much about his downfall and all of the different ways that he had it in his hand so many times and then also fumbled it and then would get close to getting back to it and then fumble it again and make the wrong decision when he should made a different decision. And so he really did keep so much of the energy in this season going for the 83 days.

[Melissa Denny]

I mean, like, this was the only end game that I really liked. Like, that even I never watch the feeds. When it gets to the final day, I'm always just like, okay, yeah, I know they're just, like, hanging out and reminiscing or whatever. Who cares? But this was very entertaining. I mean, the fact that there was drama.

[Aman Adwin]

Drama.

[Melissa Denny]

I mean, up until the feeds shut off, I mean, that was exciting. And like, yes, it went in circles and all that sort of stuff, but I. Dennis was like, who? These two people will not stop talking because every night when I would, like, be getting ready for bed, I'd be listening to Morgan and Vince going at it. Every single night. And every single night Dennis was like, these people need to go to sleep. They need to go to sleep. They just, I don't know who these people are, but they need to go to sleep. So, yeah, it's, he even he knows there.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. I will say though, that Vince's worst moment of the night might have been in the final two questions. And I forget whose question he was answering, but when Kelly started laughing at his answer about how he was so close with Kelly and Will had to like, like, hit her with a card. And Rachel is making a face like.

[Puya]

It was Morgan's question.

[Rob Cestrino]

I think it's like the Brittany Haynes gift face, like.

[Taryn Armstrong]

And it's again, like, it's such the story of Vince that his very first final two in the game, somebody who would have been just lock loyal to him all game, decided to, despite her volunteering against her wishes because she had decided she didn't want to anymore, still put her on the block in that first week. By the end of the game, she is laughing at his final two speech. It's like, like, yep, you know, it tracks.

[Aman Adwin]

You know, I, I did appreciate that Morgan tried to, tried to give him like something. She's like, okay, like, Vince, tell us what the best thing about your game. Like, I'm, I'm trying here, but it just, it just, you just couldn't make it happen.

[Taryn Armstrong]

It felt like Morgan was maybe being swayed a little bit. Like the fact that she was like, oh, I was going to ask Vince a question question, but now I want to ask Morgan a question. This is because she had planned with Vince like for these kinds of scenarios, like they would give themselves, they would give each other like a layup question. He had a prepared answer for it. She had been preparing to give that question. The fact that she thought about changing her mind and asking Ashley one tells me that I think she was wavering a little bit with her vote. Ultimately, she does go to Vince and I think that maybe it was his answer to her question along with his final speech that locked her in for Vince. But it did seem like she was wavering a little bit.

[Rob Cestrino]

Wouldn't that have been a great also just like final beat if Morgan too also votes for Ashley in the end instead of Vince?

[Puya]

I think given what's about to happen, I think I'm happy he got one vote.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Yes.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah, I feel like it would have broken pins and I just feel like I don't want to do that.

[Aman Adwin]

I'm sorry, Rob. I, I, I, you know, plus, I mean, the two of Them were so attached. Like, they were like this. Like, I feel like, feel like even if, if Vince would have gone out there and completely failed. Like, just like no good answers at all. Like, no redeeming qualities at all.

[Rob Cestrino]

To have a seven. Zero unanimous win. I'm on.

[Aman Adwin]

I don't think Ashley needs a unanimous vote. I don't. I, I just. I, I think. I think her game spoke for itself.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I thought she deserved it.

[Aman Adwin]

I, I. Does she deserve it?

[Rob Cestrino]

Maybe.

[Aman Adwin]

Does she need it? No. Am I mad that Morgan voted for.

[Taryn Armstrong]

To win you names?

[Melissa Denny]

Wow.

[Aman Adwin]

I'm just saying I'm not. I cannot Morgan for like, that's like the two of them were like this.

[Rob Cestrino]

Like, for like weeks.

[Melissa Denny]

I agree.

[Aman Adwin]

Mad at that.

[Taryn Armstrong]

You know, like, that's how you really feel. Iman.

[Rob Cestrino]

Late night still talk it all through.

[Aman Adwin]

This girl done got 750.

[Puya]

I see a bit of myself and Vince.

[Rob Cestrino]

Don't do them like this. Y' all. Let him be. Honestly.

[Aman Adwin]

Yes. If we're being real about it.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yes. Like, the guy this is.

[Aman Adwin]

We know that this guy has some stuff going on. Okay. When he gets out of this house, the least he could get is $50,000 and a vote.

[Melissa Denny]

Give him one vote from his almost boot day.

[Aman Adwin]

Okay. We'll see what he got.

[Taryn Armstrong]

His 75K.

[Aman Adwin]

That's true.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay. Let's talk about America's favorite player. That it turned out that it was an overwhelming victory for Keanu. Knew.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah, I saw this.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I think we all saw that coming.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Puya]

I, I did what I usually do before the finale, and I peaked the Facebook post, the latest post on the big brother page. And all the posts were basically, ah, we're just here to see who gets afp. We're just here to watch Keanu get afp. They. They did not care about anything else that was going on. I've been seeing a lot of it on my algorithm, on my Tik Tok algorithm. A lot of Keanu love.

[Aman Adwin]

A lot.

[Puya]

A lot of Keanu love. Overwhelming. I think Keanu who for. For a lot of the people really spoke to them this season.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah.

[Taryn Armstrong]

And, and I, I, I'm seeing a lot of people saying, like, oh, again, you know, the casual audience outvoting the, the hardcore fan base. I actually don't know that that's strictly true in this situation. And I pointed this out earlier in the season as well, that, like, I did not see a united front for Rachel. There were obviously, it was a huge push for Rachel, obviously. But I saw a lot of online fans rooting for Keanu, even In our own comment sections, on Reddit, on Twitter, on, you know, blue sky everywhere. There were a lot of Keanu fans that are like hardcore fans as well. He spoke to a lot of people for sure, and. And so that's how I knew for sure he was going to win. Because if the. If the online audience is not united 100%, they have no shot of beating the casual vote. And the casual vote was obviously Keanu.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah, I' I was disappointed that it wasn't Rachel because I did feel like without her, this, there would have been no gameplay this season. I mean, there would have been nothing. I honestly, truly think that Rachel drove the fun of the season. I feel like without her, there would be nothing. And I think that her relationship with Keanu was really awesome and really great and was my favorite storyline of the season. So at the same time, I get it. I really like Keanu and I loved them together, and I totally understand why he got it. I'm just disappointed for Rachel because I would have loved to have seen her do it, and she gave so much to the season, but I saw it coming because when I talked to my parents about it, you know, my mom was pro Rachel, but second place Keanu, but my dad was for Keanu because he just didn't understand Rachel's like, stick. I guess he was like, she just calls herself the queen. I don't understand. And so it's like a lot of casual viewers, you know, they just don't. And my dad has watched all season, so it's not like he just doesn't know who Rachel is. Like, he knows who she is, but he doesn't really get that she's, like, campy and fun and, you know, is a personality. He just was like, I just don't. I don't get it. And I am sure a lot of people felt the same. Same way.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Well, also, the way he jumped over the booth at the veto comp in the double eviction was pretty, pretty cool.

[Puya]

That was good energy. Yeah, that was great. And I just think that, you know, the underdog usually will get a very favorable amount of votes come AFP. I think 100% Rachel, you know, has been a player that is, you know, loved by a lot of us, but I think has always been a little bit divisive, especially for new fans. I think they might not understand, understand Rachel of it all, but I think let's look at it this way. Also, Keanu time and time again wins a thing, and he's like, I'm here to work with you. And Vince is like, okay. And then Vince put him on the block. And then someone else, he's like, I'm here to work with you. They're like, okay. And they kept putting him on the block. And for some people, this is kind of like, you know, it's like I keep putting myself out there. I keep doing this, and they don't take it. They don't see me, they don't appreciate me. And I think they see themselves in a bit of Keanu. And then I think the fact that he had to leave a couple of times and didn't also, let's not forget. And I, I. And these were moments when he slowly and very patiently won that blockbuster, when the other two were frantically running. That was aura right there. Also, let's not forget a moment like that as well. So I think combine all that and also being loud and wrong makes you a little lovable. I think that always helps. He had a lot of different things going for him. So 65 does not surprise me.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah.

[Rob Cestrino]

Will you be happy next season, Puya? When they bring him back as the Rachel of next season where he is the one house, guess who comes back and is like the veteran to teach all the newbies and take them under his wing.

[Aman Adwin]

So. What wing?

[Taryn Armstrong]

I think he needs a good 15 years, Rob.

[Melissa Denny]

I feel like he needs. He would. If. If I were to like this idea, it would need to be. He, like, learns way more about the game and the strategy, everything. And to then be like, oh, my reads are always wrong. I should always do the opposite of what I. I'm thinking.

[Rob Cestrino]

Minimum.

[Puya]

I don't want to see anyone for a minimum of two years at least. Obviously, Rob, you know me, I'd rather not be one house guest. But in two years, if you're gonna put Keanu in there low key, I wouldn't mind it. I'll take it.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah.

[Melissa Denny]

And, you know, I will say about Keanu, like, I do feel like he was never, like, mean spirited or, like, cruel. I feel like he always was, you know, very wrong and very loud about being wrong, but he was never. It was never mean spirited. And I think that that was really important. He just seemed like he always just wanted to, like, work with people and be friends with people. And even when he was yelling at Vince, you know, he was like, look, I'm not meaning to yell at you. Like, I just want to empower you. And he gave that, like, speech about big brother being for the bold or whatever. And, you know, even though he had every right to be mad At Vince and annoyed with Vince, but he. He's the kind of, you know, quote unquote, like, villain or, like, underdog or whatever that people like to root for, because he is not a bad guy. Like, I don't think Keanu was a bad guy at all. And so I appreciated everything he brought to the season and especially his relationship with Rachel. And I know I keep harping on that, but that was such a fun storyline, and I'm so sad we didn't get to see the end of it. I was a little sad about Ra. Rachel's answer today, where she was like, yeah, no, I actually. Yeah, she's like, yeah, no, I actually wouldn't have worked with him or whatever. And it was like, oh, that's kind of not gonna play Frenemies.

[Rob Cestrino]

I needed friends.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah. Which is true and is nice. Like, Keanu did go against Rachel, but I felt like, didn't they work that out in the jury house? Because Keanu.

[Taryn Armstrong]

It didn't seem like it in the jury segment. Like, it was a freshly opened wound.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah. And. And I feel like Keanu had in his interviews, and everything was like, Rachel was right. She was right all along. And I feel like that should have absolved the whole, like, resolve, the whole thing, and absolved him of his, like, issues with her, because, you know, that was the whole thing. Is that, like, I kept telling you. Yes, you did. You were right. And I feel like she wanted to hear you were right. And I thought he gave that to her. Maybe he didn't. But this. It was a disappointing ending for the frenemies, I'll say that.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah.

[Puya]

Also, I want to add one last thing. I mean, I will never forget in the early season when Jimmy twice, three times tried to come for him, and he so nonchalantly toppled every bit of rehearsal lines that Jimmy had ready for him, which is very. Again, just no care in the world. And he just. He did that. So he has that. I think there's a lot of behavioral things that I've. I have seen for me that have been negatives. And I'm very hopeful, and I'm very hopeful that he will learn from those and fix those. He gives me the vibe that he will. Only time will tell, though.

[Rob Cestrino]

How about Captain Will sneaking into the top three for AFB? I mean, now it might have been, like, 65. Keanu, 34, 4.9%. Rachel, like, 0.1 for Captain Will, but a top three finish, nonetheless.

[Melissa Denny]

I'm happy about that.

[Aman Adwin]

Captain Will.

[Melissa Denny]

I'm very happy about that. I really like Will. So I. I think it's. I think it was a great top three.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Yeah. I love the.

[Aman Adwin]

Will snuck in there, and there was a lot of. There. You know, there was some intrigue with his game. You know, it wasn't like he was completely out of making it to the end. There was a lot he had to get done to. To pull out a win. But there was. There were some weeks where we were like, hold on now. Will is. He's contending right now.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Can we. Can we go ahead?

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. I was gonna say that he had a couple of great moments tonight that we mentioned when Kelly was laughing and tried to stop her. But when he goes and puts the key in and then just Is like, this is a vote for what he said.

[Aman Adwin]

My.

[Rob Cestrino]

My daughter.

[Melissa Denny]

My daughter, daughter.

[Rob Cestrino]

My daughter, daughter. And Julie's like, will, Will, you have to be coy. You can't just listen. Rob.

[Taryn Armstrong]

He wasn't listening. I bet. I bet he wasn't listening to the instructions in the same way, Rob, that he wasn't listening to Ashley's instructions when he explicitly. When she explicitly told him, tell Rachel, do not tell them about me being a lawyer. I want that to be a reveal in my final speech.

[Rob Cestrino]

In his head, he's.

[Taryn Armstrong]

He's not paying attention. And the first thing we hear from him and the jury roundtable is, oh, did you know that Ashley said an attorney?

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah, well, yeah, don't tell. You can't tell that man nothing.

[Taryn Armstrong]

What I will say is, at the time I said, I thought it would be a better idea. Idea to tell them ahead of time, because minds don't change very quickly in speeches. And so he might have helped her out here, but she did base a lot of her final speech around that reveal, and their response is mostly like.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah, Morgan was shocked.

[Puya]

Accent.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Yes. Yes.

[Puya]

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Melissa Denny]

I think it was. I think, Taryn, I think you're right. I think it was better for her that he revealed it early because then, you know, they're able to talk about that aspect of it. Like, oh, I didn't even know. She hid that from me. And kind of think about the fact that Ashley is someone maybe smarter or different than they initially thought that she was. And then when she proves that during her speeches, it's like, oh, yep, okay, there you go. Confirmed.

[Puya]

Listen, I come from a Middle Eastern background, and something I've learned is parents love to brag when their child has a very big profession. I was supposed to go to university for marketing. My parents, up until, like, five years ago, still told people that I went to school for marketing and I've been doing that. I have not done any marketing in my life. So they're very quick to grab the biggest title and be like, see my kid there? My kid over there, that's the lawyer.

[Taryn Armstrong]

They don't like to Twitch streamer.

[Puya]

They don't get it.

[Aman Adwin]

Taryn.

[Puya]

Everything is podcast to them.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Stream is podcast, professional video game content creator on Twitch.

[Puya]

If only they knew.

[Rob Cestrino]

And when you check out the stream, that's marketing, baby.

[Aman Adwin]

As you heard, I say, that is marketing right there.

[Puya]

That's true. But try explaining it to them that.

[Rob Cestrino]

That'S what it is.

[Puya]

I for podcasting, I had to make them like, so have you heard of a radio show? Yeah, that's. That's kind of what we do. Yeah, like that's how you get them.

[Rob Cestrino]

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[Aman Adwin]

Raise the sails.

[Rob Cestrino]

Race the sails.

[Aman Adwin]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Over.

[Rob Cestrino]

Roger, wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?

[Puya]

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[Melissa Denny]

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[Taryn Armstrong]

Trust me, because I'm about to eat it.

[Melissa Denny]

That hits right away. Attempt the Popeyes Hot Ones menu in stores. Love that chicken from Popeyes. Live it of time in participating U.S. restaurants.

[Rob Cestrino]

Let's unravel the saga of the Mastermind where all season long we've been following. The Mastermind has been torturing the residents of the Hotel Mystere. He had his lair destroyed. He went away for a while, came back in a big way with a month of mayhem. And then we saw the Mastermind unmasked. But we heard in the house that Morgan mentioned it was Dr. Will. So it was kind of like, okay, we got the reveal, but Julie made it seem like it was very. She was very coy also about it being Dr. Will. And Dr. Will was framed.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I didn't do much of it.

[Aman Adwin]

No, this. Listen. Okay, well, first off, let me just say we love Eric Stein.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Okay, let me interrupt you. Iman. Yeah. So let me tell you the journey that I had during this segment, please.

[Rob Cestrino]

Because.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I was pouting in my Vince ways. Stupid show. Didn't even have any Ashley segments after. She's gonna win this game. And now we're dealing with a stupid Mastermind segment. Oh, it's Jesse. Okay, fine. It's Jesse. Oh, yeah. He was screwed. He was. He was screwed by a twist. That's fair. Oh, oh, and Frankie, what are we. Frankie? Really? The rewind?

[Rob Cestrino]

Really?

[Taryn Armstrong]

That's what we're doing. Comparing that to the coup d'. Etat. Okay. I mean. Oh, my God, there's another one. What are we do.

[Rob Cestrino]

Oh, let's go. It's Eric Stein.

[Taryn Armstrong]

All right, I'm all in. What are we doing here?

[Rob Cestrino]

Hey, guys.

[Melissa Denny]

I love the concept. I thought that the concept was great. I think, like, the idea of, like, oh, people who got screwed over by twist. I wanted more. I wanted there to be more masterminds coming out. Like, everyone who got screwed by a twist, it was like, 18 of them. Yeah, I would have loved that. I honestly would have. But the one.

[Taryn Armstrong]

The one I'm here to get my.

[Melissa Denny]

Superpowers, it would have been great. I loved it. I thought it was great. At first, I thought it was just Jesse, and I was like, okay. Like, just Jesse, fine. But then when they were like, oh, it's about getting screwed over by a twist. Like, I thought that was excellent. The one thing I'll say is that, like, oh, I'm sorry. I wish there was, like, better clues hidden throughout. Like, oh, we should have seen this. It was like. Didn't you see that little tiny pin?

[Rob Cestrino]

We were supposed to be able to piece this together based off the breadcrumbs. Let's come back. I want to come back to the breadcrumbs. Tara, has Eric ever appeared on the show since BB8. 9 9?

[Taryn Armstrong]

He. He appeared with. With Jessica. I don't know.

[Puya]

For that anniversary one.

[Taryn Armstrong]

That's a good question. I don't recall if he was in the audience for that one, but, like, you know, an official guest appearance on the show. I don't believe he's been There they're saying maybe he was on. Was he on 10? I don't remember him being linked, but.

[Puya]

Is he part of it in the news?

[Taryn Armstrong]

But, like, being there and not. But here's the thing. This is the way more important thing to me. Not only was Eric Stein back on the show, but on the show in a way that recognized how much they screwed him, because they have not done that before. They have been nowhere near that before. And to. To get him on there, where he's able to say on Big Brother, on the show itself, I got screwed on my season. And they not only allowed it, I guess they, like, prompted it. Like a tiny piece of my childhood self was healed in that moment.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. Should Rachel have come in as the fourth mastermind? Like, you think you got screwed by a twist?

[Melissa Denny]

That would have been great.

[Aman Adwin]

That's what I was like, y', all. I see what y' all are doing. Y' all are giving us this fan service and talking about, oh, yeah, sorry. We really messed up our big one on Rachel.

[Rob Cestrino]

Many of your favorites got screwed by twins.

[Aman Adwin]

Let's just wheelbarrow out Eric Stein. It's like, it's not fair. You cannot use Eric Stein to. To. To. To justify what y' all was doing. Okay? I was like, if y' all don't.

[Puya]

Come on, they can and they will. Let me tell you. They can and they will.

[Rob Cestrino]

It works.

[Taryn Armstrong]

And they tried the stick. I don't like the stick. I want the carrot. And they gave me a carrot.

[Aman Adwin]

I'm so annoyed.

[Melissa Denny]

We like carrots.

[Aman Adwin]

I'm happy that Eric was there. Don't get me wrong. I'm happy. But I was just, like, dollars. So it just reminded me all the more of the fact that she was screwed. I was just like, oh, God.

[Rob Cestrino]

I couldn't believe it.

[Aman Adwin]

I couldn't believe it either. It was wild.

[Rob Cestrino]

Wait, Eric.

[Aman Adwin]

It was wild. It was wild. But Frankie being there, I was like, well, you press that damn button. You didn't have to press that button.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Okay, yeah, listen, Frankie, he got a little screwed. Yeah. But not nowhere near Kudeta or America's Player.

[Aman Adwin]

No, no. They could have brought Jody back, to be honest.

[Rob Cestrino]

Always.

[Melissa Denny]

That's like, I don't know.

[Taryn Armstrong]

That would have been fun.

[Melissa Denny]

I don't know if Frankie won without, like, if he had gotten screwed by the twist. Like, I think that's the difference between, like. Like, Jesse, he was playing such a solid game, and he had all these people working for him. Eric Stein, he was so good, and we know him as, like, oh, the best Player to never win sort of thing. And then you've got Frankie, who, like, he was very good and dominant during the season, but by that point, when he got screwed over by the twist, everyone was like, we got to get Frankie out. And then he had one hoa and couldn't. And could. They couldn't get him out. And then they did the rewind, and they could. So it was like.

[Rob Cestrino]

I really thought the third person was gonna come in. It was gonna be because. So I. I got screwed by a twist. I thought it was gonna be Danielle Reyes, especially because that she had been the person who lost on the hamster wheel in Reindeer Games. I don't know if we were gonna canonically recognize Reindeer Games, but. Oh, oh, wait, hold on. There's somebody at the podcast door. Let's.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Let's see.

[Rob Cestrino]

Oh, wait, hold on. Was it Ring and run? They left. Oh, they ding dong ditched us.

[Melissa Denny]

Wow.

[Aman Adwin]

Damn.

[Rob Cestrino]

What the hell? These damn kids. Finale podcast they were trying to do. Yeah, but I thought it was going to be Danielle, and I thought that that was going to be the third person, but then I was just like, my head. My mind was blown when it was Eric.

[Puya]

Well, can we talk about the. The weird, arresting moment that we had with Dr. Will also? Get them before they run away. Get them before they run away.

[Rob Cestrino]

Damn kids keep ringing the bell like, oh, wait.

[Aman Adwin]

Reindeer Games. What up, Corky?

[Josh Martinez]

That was a really good scream.

[Rob Cestrino]

Holy.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Are you. Are you Ashley with mold spilled all over you?

[Rob Cestrino]

Oh, dude.

[Josh Martinez]

What's up, friends?

[Rob Cestrino]

What's going on, Josh, how are you? Happy finale night, dude.

[Josh Martinez]

I'm, like, unwinding now from that madness. I don't know. Every time I watch the finale, it's like I'm sitting there in those two seats again. But I'm so happy for Ashley, man, and I'm happy to be talking to you guys.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. Okay. Can you put it into perspective and does it remind you at all of your win in BB19?

[Josh Martinez]

Oh, deja vu, deja vu. I'm, like, watching Vince answering, and I'm like, oh, you're digging yourself, dude. But no, man, I'm genuinely so happy for her. I think it's time people understand that while the strategic game is important and obviously comp wins and all that stuff, the way you make people feel is extremely important, especially on live television, and I think more respect on the social game. So as Ashley's win is huge, and I'm so happy for her.

[Rob Cestrino]

Did you see this coming, Josh?

[Josh Martinez]

I did not. I'm gonna be honest with you. I did not. I did not. I really thought, for some reason, I was like, Morgan's just gonna win all the way to the end. Like, I really thought she was gonna win that last one. And then I was shocked, man. I was really shocked.

[Aman Adwin]

Well, I'm shocked. Hi, Josh.

[Josh Martinez]

Yeah, this seems very tense, Josh.

[Aman Adwin]

But no, yeah, like, it's. It's.

[Rob Cestrino]

It's.

[Aman Adwin]

Again, it's crazy because, you know, you go into the finale thinking that it's kind of a foregone conclusion. There's a little bit of intrigue there, and the unexpected happens, and it happens in a way in which, like, the person that does win, they bring themselves there. Like, they. They make it happen for themselves. Like, it's even.

[Josh Martinez]

Yeah, it's. It's so crazy. I'm sorry to cut you off, but you saying that. You saying that right now. I. I'm just having flashbacks. I was just texting Xavier and I was having flashbacks. Dr. Will literally said something to me my finale night that stuck to me, and, like, I've never let go of it. But he literally said, like, if you won, whoever won that night, and literally said exactly what they had to say. They did exactly what they had to do.

[Taryn Armstrong]

They.

[Josh Martinez]

You know, their words connected with the. With the jury, and they earned and deserved that win. So I know Ashley's gonna get shit because people are gonna. You know, all. Vince played a better game, but it's not about that. And I think it's. At this point, it should be proven that jury management is everything. Okay? It's everything. If you make the bitter jury, that's part of the fucking game. Okay?

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. Did you see anything between Vin, Vince, and Paul?

[Josh Martinez]

What? It's like you. It's like me and Paul had a child and birth.

[Aman Adwin]

Vince, like, it.

[Josh Martinez]

Truly, it's like. It's like Paul's game and strategy with my emotions and my chaos and my mess. But I. I think what Vince did wrong. I think what Vince did wrong was his game. And listen, I'm a fan of Vince. Say what you want about Vince. Vince, Vince is going to be talked about. Vince was entertaining. Vince added so much to this season. You can hate the guy. He added so much value to. To the season. So I'm a big fan of his, but I think the thing that he did wrong was, like, he was just so slow, like, lying to a point where it's like, all right, you don't, like, let these people know you're playing. You're playing them. Like, the way he lied to Lauren, the way he played Keanu. It was so overplayed, where you could have just. Just owned your shit and owned it in your goodbyes or owned it. I think he tried to own it a little bit tonight, but it was too. It was too late. I feel so. Yeah, but I mean, yes.

[Melissa Denny]

I mean, I remember watching the jury questioning and the final two speeches for you guys, and I just remember being like, Paul is not owning it. He's not telling the truth. He's just trying to make people believe, like, well, I was working with you. I really was. And it's like, that's not what you need to do. Do at that point. And that's what Vince didn't do correctly in his final two questioning, because he should have been talking about, yes, I did do this. Yes, I was emotionally manipulative. That's the game. And, you know, I'm sitting here because of it. And instead, he just. He just couldn't take ownership of doing that. And maybe it was because he really, honestly didn't intend to do it, but that's not a winning strategy to just be like, well, I don't know how I got here. I guess. I guess I did bad things. Oh, well, I think it's.

[Josh Martinez]

I don't know. I don't know why. I don't want to say why people do that, but I just don't know. Like, it's just so easy to sit there and kind of just own it, you know? I think if you would have done that, he would have won the game. But at that point, you got Kelly in the back laughing. You got like, everybody was just so over it that it was just so. And I think even when he answered Morgan's question, like, I'm like, bro, just give Morgan the credit that she wants right now. Like, she wants her ego to be stroked, and you're flopping at that. So it's like, you know, even that he fumbled it so bad.

[Puya]

But.

[Melissa Denny]

And his answer when he was saying. Especially the one where Kelly was laughing at him, like, that was the answer where he was saying, like, he ended on good terms with everyone, which is, like, obviously not true. And if they're sitting there, if the jury's question is like, you lied to us all and you made us believe stuff, you know, blah, blah, blah. They're obviously not thinking we all left on good terms. They're. They're thinking that they're mad at you, and you need to kind of. You need to say something in regards to that, and you can't just deny their feelings. I feel like that Makes them feel worse 100%.

[Josh Martinez]

And I mean, listen, at that point, you know, you already eliminated these people, bro. They're eagles bruised, just kind of, you know, like, ease the blow a little bit. Just own it. Listen, you're a great player. That's why I took you out. I think if you go with that approach again, Jury management, dude. Jury management. I. I love this win. I know a lot of people this is going to be a very controversial win. I think Ashley's gonna. But at the end of the day, like, she did exactly what she had to do. And I love this win. And either anybody that would have won tonight, I think for me, I haven't been this invested in a season in so long, and thanks to Rachel for doing that for me. I also been, like, I haven't been. The past few years, I've been, like, in and out because of filming, but I've been home, so it's been so nice, and I'm so invested in this fight. Final three. I could genuinely say all of them deserved it. Even with how messy Vince played, like, still very deserving of a win. So it was a very satisfying finale for me as a fan.

[Rob Cestrino]

You know, the way that Ashley came into the final two, that she just had, like, such a, like, gusto where she was really going for it. And I feel like that you had. And, like, Taylor had that, where it's just like, when they get to the final, final two, that there's just, like.

[Taryn Armstrong]

There's just.

[Rob Cestrino]

They. They have this great passion and energy. And Vince talked about how, like, when they asked him about his game, he was like, oh, that's just my passion for, you know, that. That's. That that was what I was doing. But he didn't sound passionate in the way that Ashley sounded passionate.

[Josh Martinez]

Dude, I was watching that. I was watching my. So I have this tradition. We always. When I'm home, we'll watch. I watch with my family, and I'm looking over. I'm sitting next to. To my dad, and my dad's balling watching this girl give her speech. Like, as soon as he starts talking, my dad's just balling, screaming. And it was just like, she dominated. I haven't seen. I mean, well, Taylor. Yeah, Taylor. Taylor's performance, like, that was so good, too, but I think she completely dominated that, and it was just like every point was just landing, you know? So, dude, yeah, I'm big, big, big fan of Ashley. So happy for her, dude. And it's about to be a wild rock. I mean, it's about to be wild. Like, I mean, she's. She's a star, so I think she's gonna have a successful career after this, too.

[Rob Cestrino]

She's sad.

[Josh Martinez]

She's set for life. I mean, sunshine is nice.

[Aman Adwin]

And it's like, again. It's nice again. We're starting to close in on this gender gap of Big Brother winners as well. This is now the second woman in a row, which has happened for the second time in a row. Right?

[Taryn Armstrong]

Because it was Lisa, June, and. Yeah, Lisa and June. W. Dude, I don't think it's a coincidence either. We were talking for a long time about the gender disparity in competition wins leading into big brother 25, and then a slight shift, I think slight shift in the. In the competitions, but I think a bigger shift in the casting as well, where we're casting more athletic women to compete in these athletic competitions. All of a sudden, a bunch more women winning competitions in season 26, in 27. Don't think it's a coincidence that we then saw two women win back to back for the first time in nearly. In like, 22 years. Like, that's. That's pretty big. And.

[Rob Cestrino]

And the. The.

[Taryn Armstrong]

The kicker is Ashley won without even needing to win those competitions, which was so much more fun. So, yeah, really, really great stuff.

[Aman Adwin]

And of course, like, it goes without saying, the. Since the diversity initiative, like, I mean, come on. Like, the proof is really in the pudding. And you have now three black women, big brother, when it first after. After 24 seasons for it to happen in a span less than five years, like, it's just.

[Taryn Armstrong]

You love to see.

[Aman Adwin]

And each one of them won differently, too. Like, they were all such different games. It's just. It just goes to show, like, when you. You widen the pool, you're going to get a lot of interesting stuff to watch. So just. It's just great. Just great.

[Josh Martinez]

I agree, man. I completely agree. I was texting Xavier and I was like, I might need to switch. Switch my. My lawyer, because I don't know that argument that actually gave. But, you know, we started joking. But then, you know, I. I, like, told him. I was like, dude, I grew. I. I was 13, 14 when I started watching. And like, not to get all in my feelings, but, like, I really couldn't relate to anybody being Latino. Like, I. I truly never felt represented. So just to see all of this happening now in the new era, it's beautiful to watch. Like, you know, younger Josh is very happy. And, you know, I didn't feel that until I saw Victor on season 18A, that was the season before mine. So I just. For me, I just know how important it is. So I'm always a champion of, you know, my people just winning, representing, and just having more people in there that, you know, represent different type of people. So. Yeah, yeah, I'll stop being emotional now. But listen, I'm gonna get to bed because. Because it is midnight here. But it was so fun.

[Rob Cestrino]

Such a great surprise. Thank you so much, Josh. Thank you, guys. Anything coming up? You want people to check out?

[Josh Martinez]

I do. I can't say much. I will say this.

[Rob Cestrino]

That's how you always are.

[Josh Martinez]

I know, but I will say this. I am going to say this because this is going to help me. I might need the support of. I've never asked for the public support in anything, but this is something that I'm genuinely so excited about and. And I might need all of y' all support.

[Rob Cestrino]

Look, it didn't help.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Us know what it is in the goodbye message. Movies.

[Rob Cestrino]

Deal?

[Taryn Armstrong]

Deal.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. Josh, thank you so much. Okay.

[Josh Martinez]

Thank you, guys, man, have a good night. You guys are awesome. Thank you. Bye, guys.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Thank you so much, Josh.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay. All right. Wow, that was a nice surprise. Yeah. Amman is like Frozen.

[Aman Adwin]

I was not expecting that at all.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah. That was Amon screaming. Everyone.

[Rob Cestrino]

Melissa is screaming. She's going to wake up the baby.

[Melissa Denny]

My poor baby would be woken up.

[Taryn Armstrong]

No, I thought that was Melissa's baby.

[Aman Adwin]

I couldn't, like, stop it when it came out.

[Rob Cestrino]

It was like, guttural, like.

[Aman Adwin]

I just have such an appreciation.

[Rob Cestrino]

I think when Josh came by, Melissa, I think you were talking about Dr. Will getting arrested. I think you mentioned that.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I do. I do want to just mention, though, like, Josh stopping by, talking about being so invested in the season. Obviously, we've talked a lot about. About being invested in the season, how it's carried the level of investment and enthusiasm throughout the season. Something we haven't talked a lot about is that the ratings have been up, like, significantly up. And this is actually something I document in my book, but this is pretty rare for Big Brother. This. The ratings often trail down. There have only been a couple of periods of time in Big Brother history. The very beginning this period from season 10 to around season 14. And I guess now where ratings are, have gone up from the previous season and. And again, pretty significantly. So I think that a good portion of this, honestly, is the current zeitgeist of reality television. There is a lot of goodwill and a lot more audience looking for content. I think a lot of it is Rachel Riley and And I think that, like, it just culminated in this season where everybody's been glued to their televisions and the ratings have been up and the fans. Fans have been not always happy, but. But it's. It's really interesting to see such an upswing in viewership and engagement with the alumni, with the audience. It's. It's really cool.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah, I feel like online, too, it is like, I mean, Big Brother has Big Brother. Twitter has always been fervent, right? But I feel like there is, like, there are a lot more people because I feel like maybe five or so seasons ago, you know, it felt kind of contained. You could. You could, you know, get a cool tweet in there, and it would get maybe like, 500 or so. Like, I feel like people are getting thousands of likes just for, like, live feed updates on Twitter. I'm like, where are all these people coming from? This is like, it's. It just. It feels like we're really in, like, Taryn said, like, a bit of, like, a. Like a zeitgeist. There's just so many eyes on the show. It feels. It feels fresh and just. And not even. Not just Big Brother, but, like, a lot. Like, I mean, Love Island. I feel like it's like a juggernaut over the past couple of years. Like, it's been crazy.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I can't make a tweet without. But, like, I can't make a live feed update tweet without people being like, why would you post this? I tweeted Ashley1, part 2 that.

[Aman Adwin]

Why?

[Taryn Armstrong]

Genuinely, why would you even post this? What's the point? You're just spoiling it for everyone.

[Aman Adwin]

Like, I'm like, okay, strap in, honey.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Like, that's, like, every tweet, there's, like. There's people that, like, are, I guess, new to the show that are, like, don't, like. It's that it's unusual for me to see so much of that.

[Aman Adwin]

A friend of mine actually. Sorry, Pia. A friend of mine actually, like, messaged me earlier and said, so fun to see you on the BB Rhap live stream. This is my first BB that I've ever watched.

[Rob Cestrino]

I'm like, amazing.

[Aman Adwin]

So here.

[Puya]

Hi, friend.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah.

[Puya]

Yeah, girl. Well, so I think. And on top of the points y' all have made, I think also shows, like, the Traders really pulling, like, you know, going off and. And Big Brother representation there, intriguing people to check out Big Brother as part of it. I think a lot of, like, Love island did start popping, popping off, and it really started taking over Tick tock a lot of short form content I've seen made about Big Brother putting people onto Big Brother. I think there's been a lot more word of mouth recently in a more consumable medium that people have been checking out and then flocking to the show as well.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah, I think also the algorithms are just so strong, stronger than ever, where if you have an interest in a thing that you are like timeline are just so flooded with that thing. So if you had even a passing interest in a thing like Big Brother, you're probably getting more and more of that content as it exists. So I think that that's one of the reasons why, you know, we're seeing just, you know, so much, so much just coming together around these different reality TV shows that are on right now.

[Aman Adwin]

I wonder if like, the Traders also is like, a little bit of, like, what's happening too, because there's so many people that are getting into the Traitors just as a show within itself. And there are all these people are being cast from other shows. And so I'm wondering if people are, you know, sort of like being like, all right, well, I kind of want to be prepared for Trader season four or five and beyond. So let me go ahead and watch these shows that they keep pulling from, like Survivors and Big Brothers and whoever else, just so that I can understand and get like a fuller. A fuller picture of what's going on in these seasons.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Well, Survivor too. Yeah. Like, they. They talked about Survivor was like the most watched show that was Nomin for him, an Emmy. And I think that built from COVID when it went on Netflix and really had this resurgence. I think in general, we're just in this sort of reality TV renaissance when it comes to interest and ratings. And so it's an exciting time to be a fan because there's a ton of other stuff going on, but through it all, the. The titans remain.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. And I will say that also, I think a lot of it is also the lack of interest about anything else that's on television outside side of live sports. I think it's been very hard to have a lot of traction around any of the other offerings that are on broadcast television right now.

[Aman Adwin]

You're saying scripted TV sucks these days, Rob?

[Rob Cestrino]

There has just not a lot of new shows that I think that there are shows that are, like, skewing for, like, very older audiences, but I don't think there's a lot of new stuff that's coming on that's competing with these, you know, reality TV mainstays.

[Aman Adwin]

Got It.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay. Anything else on the Mastermind? Oh, we're going to talk about the breadcrumbing of the Mastermind. Like, are you telling me this is like, what used to, like, upset me with, like, the mole where it was like, you didn't see this obvious clue that it would. The mole was there right in front of your eyes the whole time. Hold on. I could have gone back to the Mastermind sanctum and if I would have, like, looked at a 90 degree angle at what was written in there, it would have given me the clues to put this mystery together.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Yeah. I don't know if you know. I don't know if you know, but I've been promoting a book all season long.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yes.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Called behind the Mirror. And if you had been able to look carefully.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yes.

[Taryn Armstrong]

It was actually written by me.

[Rob Cestrino]

Oh, that's the book I.

[Taryn Armstrong]

All season long you've been like, wow, why is he promoting this Big Brother book? What is he talking about? And right in front of your face the whole time, my name right there.

[Rob Cestrino]

Authors.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Now, just one. You thought. You thought Ghostwriter, obviously some kind of Big Brother alumni. No, the whole time I was staring you right in the face.

[Aman Adwin]

I was always the only author.

[Melissa Denny]

I feel like if they were going to give clues, they should have done done, like, actual clues, not the, like, oh, Frankie was wearing a tiny pin. Like, I don't look at Frankie's, like, outfit that closely, and I don't even remember the logo of the White Locust. Like, I don't know.

[Rob Cestrino]

Did you see the flare that the Mastermind was wearing tonight? It was all right in front of your eyes the whole time? Yeah.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I think they. I think they got a little burned by how easy it was to solve the Rachel Riley clues. And so they were like, all right, we need to make this harder.

[Puya]

Well, like, that's the thing, though, is that you kind of like, you want it to be at least semi solvable by somebody. Right. And I think the reality is if one person cracks it, everyone will find out about it. So they did make it impossible. But I just think it's such a testament to how much no one cared about the Mastermind that they had three different masks, one with an upside down keyhole. And I genuinely saw not one person ever bring this up to me. It never came up.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I did notice the masks were different. I didn't notice the keyhole, but I noticed the. The scars were switching. I just genuinely thought that was a budget thing.

[Puya]

I thought fatigue to me. I thought, like, he's been fighting the house guests and losing Zingbot's like fighting him. So I thought it was more that than any other. He just wore scars.

[Melissa Denny]

He's just fighting everyone.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Yeah, funny.

[Aman Adwin]

Another switchback. Wait, this isn't the top. Where's the summit? Why am I doing this?

[Taryn Armstrong]

At REI Co Op, we believe there.

[Aman Adwin]

Are places within ourselves. Almost there.

[Puya]

You got this.

[Taryn Armstrong]

That we find only outside.

[Aman Adwin]

Wow. This is worth it. We have the gear, inspiration and advice.

[Melissa Denny]

To help you get there.

[Aman Adwin]

Rei co op visit rei.com.

[Puya]

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[Rob Cestrino]

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[Taryn Armstrong]

Off select styles plus a professional measure at no cost.

[Rob Cestrino]

Rules and restrictions apply. Let's also then talk about. We had our pre jury comeback and some moments from the finale. Not too many things came up for this, but we ended up up bringing in the pre jury and Julie asked them what was something that surprised you? Zach was the first one to speak up of it. She asked Zach what surprised you? And he said that Vince had so many final twos and this was kind of a cute segment where we. How many of you had a final two with Vince?

[Taryn Armstrong]

I. This would have been a cute segment if they had also included anything about the winner, Ashley. Instead. This was like a segment that you do if Vince had just about was just about to win the game. Like, oh, everyone had a final two events, right? Especially going to Zach, who very famously thought Ashley was dumb coming out of the house and was extremely shocked to learn that she was a lawyer. Like we couldn't do anything. Like I was ha. I thought this was a fun segment, but I was very annoyed that we got this instead of an Ashley thing. It should have been at least both.

[Aman Adwin]

It was hollow.

[Rob Cestrino]

I didn't mind this. We spent a lot of time on. All right, let's go To Jimmy. Jimmy, you were aligned with Mickey and Morgan, and we really got in the weeds about Jimmy, Mickey, Morgan.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Again, Morgan's defending herself, and they were like, like, what are we doing here? Why is this. Why are we spending time on this right now? There's so much more to talk about between Vincent, Morgan, Ashley, Ashley, Ashley and Ashley. Like, there's so much more here. I don't know why we're spending time on the Mickey hoh.

[Puya]

Yeah, no, I'd rather if they said so. Adrian had any good brioche lately?

[Josh Martinez]

Like, that would have.

[Rob Cestrino]

Maybe something. Didn't get a question.

[Puya]

No, no, he did not.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I mean, again, it was really like they expected Morgan to be in the final two with maybe with Vince or something, and they were expecting those, like, so we had a Vince thing and we had a Morgan thing. Morgan controlled Mickey's hoh. But, like, it just. It just fell flat considering that at that point, it was pretty clear who had won the game.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah, I usually really love the, like, pre jury segment, and I'm always excited to hear, like, their take on and I think also that was kind of what we were missing. I feel like I really like hearing their take on the final three or their take on the final two and like, oh, actually, you guys didn't know that this person was playing this kind of game or whatever. Like, just they know the information. So it would have been nice, nice to have them, you know, reveal more stuff to them. And instead it was like, oh, everyone has a final two. Whatever. It's just boring stuff, really. It just wasn't intriguing or interesting. And then it was like, rehashing pre juror stuff where it's like, nobody cares about that stuff anymore. It's over. We need to be talking about what's going on right now and, like, what things you're finding out or what things that you guys know that the jury doesn't know. Like, I love those kinds of things.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I will always say is, well, that they should not be casting votes cryptically where they're not allowed to reveal who they're voting for, then have, like, two full segments before the vote is eventually revealed.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah, it's.

[Taryn Armstrong]

So they should just vote and say, I'm voting for X, Y and Z. And here's why. When we've built all this whole. Built the whole thing up into this moment, and then we just. And we wait, and by the time time they read the votes, it's not nearly as exciting anymore. It's just so frustrating every time after.

[Melissa Denny]

Why are we having the reunion before, like, it doesn't make any sense. I want people to be able to explain. Yeah, we think you'll do this every.

[Rob Cestrino]

Year if they reveal the winner.

[Melissa Denny]

We do this every year. We'll do it. Do America's Favorite at the end, then whatever. But, like, you know, I just feel like we say this every year, but every year it's just. Just bad formatting for the finale.

[Aman Adwin]

Well, just give us the reunion.

[Rob Cestrino]

Please.

[Melissa Denny]

Give us a reunion. Oh, my God.

[Aman Adwin]

Especially at this point.

[Melissa Denny]

It would be amazing, too, if we could get a reunion, like, after the jurors know what's going on and, like, everyone can talk. But, yeah, we'll never get it.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah.

[Taryn Armstrong]

BB Unlocked.

[Melissa Denny]

Oh, that would be good.

[Aman Adwin]

I mean, if you want people to, like, be engaged with BB Unlock, then, yeah, sure. Be like. And back Friday is. Is Derek and Taylor and whoever else. And they're going to host the reunion. Like, there you go.

[Melissa Denny]

Yes. They talk about the draft when they should have. They should talk about the draft win or whatever. Do a reunion bring everyone back. Like, come on.

[Puya]

Yeah, the live audience is there.

[Aman Adwin]

Such a different show than anybody else, and you don't let anybody decompress about it. That's why people go online and they talk their trash to. Because they have no other place to put it.

[Puya]

Also, I. And this might be just me speaking. I like when they make the jurors react to some content that they may not have seen this far. I like stuff like that. They've just cut that completely. I genuinely would rather that more than. All right. And Catherine, before I left you, you said you had these feelings. What are your feelings now? I don't do that for me.

[Rob Cestrino]

That.

[Puya]

Nothing for me.

[Melissa Denny]

I love them watching.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Give us, like, a fan cam edit of Ash through the season to, like, showcase what she was doing that you didn't put in your show. Oh, wait, they can't because they don't already have it and they're not going to go digging because they're too lazy.

[Rob Cestrino]

So it was also weirdly structured that we were talking to the pre jurors, but then it's like, Rachel, you and Keanu. Okay, so now I guess we didn't have enough for the pre jurors that we're going to go back to Rachel and Keanu or we don't have a segment with the jury people. We're going to talk to them. And we talked about this moment where Rachel was asked if the frenemies was real. She said that she actually needed friends, not a frenemy. Before we come back To Riley and Catherine. Okay. The big moment. Where does the relationship stand? And it's.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I honestly don't even want to talk about.

[Rob Cestrino]

The crowd goes mild together and they're having fun. They're kicking it.

[Melissa Denny]

Great for them. Yeah, that's fine. That's fun. Good.

[Puya]

You can kick it over there.

[Aman Adwin]

At this point, like, I feel like it's just been. You know, people have made their judgments on it just from what we've seen throughout the season. And then the sort of. The conversation then kind of shifted to let her family take care of it. Let the people that actually know them and love them sort of like, offer whatever it is that they're going to offer. Now that we can maybe assume that that has all happened and we are in this situation now at this point. Let go. Let God. That's all you really can do. Okay. Like, wish people well. Wish them the best. Whatever happens will happen. That's it.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah.

[Aman Adwin]

That's all you can do. I'm.

[Melissa Denny]

You know, it's not for us to worry about. It's not exactly. Yeah.

[Rob Cestrino]

The good news is they are not off filming the amazing race. Race 39.

[Melissa Denny]

That's true.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay.

[Puya]

Yeah.

[Aman Adwin]

Dodge that bullet.

[Taryn Armstrong]

You don't know that, Rob.

[Rob Cestrino]

I'm pretty sure they've already know that. I'm pretty sure they Stupid. They're filming. Okay, then. The mastermind had an accomplice. Who was it? Morgan is very interested.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Well, she got a text about Ava.

[Aman Adwin]

Didn't we clock this at the beginning of the season? That it was. That it was a. Oh, my God. I forget that lady's name.

[Melissa Denny]

It was revealed.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we clocked it before they revealed it, didn't we? Because someone's got a picture.

[Rob Cestrino]

It was like. Yeah, they had some. The garage door opener. So the one person in the world that was still interested in this, Morgan was. Was very eager to know who it was. She thought it was Ava, but it was Amy the whole time.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah.

[Taryn Armstrong]

So close. Just two letters go amy.

[Rob Cestrino]

Why did Mr. Pectacular, Frankie Grande and Eric Stein do this?

[Melissa Denny]

How did they know her? Why did they pick her?

[Rob Cestrino]

We'll have to get a deep dive.

[Puya]

With which one of them picked her.

[Rob Cestrino]

We can get some more answers.

[Taryn Armstrong]

What really would have been a reveal in the finale is a flashback to Amy with a cell phone texting Morgan Ava's name. The Frank name.

[Aman Adwin]

Her.

[Melissa Denny]

Wow.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. What is that with the cell phone? Is this something she said on the live feeds?

[Taryn Armstrong]

No. Yeah, yeah. Remember, right after Ava left, Morgan is like. So, yeah, I got a text saying, this girl Ava was going to be on the cast as an alternate.

[Melissa Denny]

Like, I got a text I wasn't supposed to get.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Yes.

[Melissa Denny]

And then they were like, we're still alive.

[Taryn Armstrong]

And she's like, it was because of this that she thought Ava was the. The accomplice and had been telling people as. As much.

[Melissa Denny]

But why would that make sense? Like, that's what I don't understand is, like, oh, she was a. An alternate.

[Puya]

Why would she get a text about an alternate? You know what I mean?

[Taryn Armstrong]

Like, it's. Yeah, it's weird that she got a text. The fact that she's an alternate implies that she might have been the accomplice, considering that the accomplice wouldn't have stayed if they had caught them. It was a reasonable theory given the information she had.

[Melissa Denny]

Enough.

[Aman Adwin]

Okay.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay. Is there anything else from the finale that we haven't unpacked tonight?

[Puya]

Yeah, I want to give Dr. Will his flowers for bringing up the social media mogul reference this many years later. That was a fun Easter egg.

[Melissa Denny]

That was good.

[Rob Cestrino]

You're a social media mogul.

[Melissa Denny]

Look, I do. I. I do want to say I appreciate them bringing back so many players for, like, little things here and there, like the 20th twins.

[Rob Cestrino]

This is also 25 years of big Brother that they did not really hard celebrate it like the way Survivor is doing for Survivor 50. But this has been the 25th anniversary of the Big Brother franchise.

[Melissa Denny]

They should have done. Okay, well, now you put it that way, I'm mad. They should have done more, but. But no, but I did really like them bringing everybody in. And they brought in Dr. Will and Eric said, I am surprised they're not bringing in Dan ever. Like, why not Dan? But. Okay.

[Taryn Armstrong]

I feel like I just saw a tweet from him that said he was asked to be on Unlocked, but he couldn't do it.

[Melissa Denny]

Oh, okay. Well, that makes sense.

[Aman Adwin]

I feel like, yeah, it is kind of weird that the 25th anniversary at all is kind of, like, understated, but I feel like they've sort of hyped up other anniversaries already within close proximity, so it all kind of just feels kind of all thrown together like the 20th anniversary was a thing. They invited all these people back. Even season 20 itself was a thing. Season 25 was a thing. So it's kind of just like all like.

[Taryn Armstrong]

It's just the 25th year, you know?

[Rob Cestrino]

Well, you know, Survivor is technically in its 25th year this year, even though they're making the big Milestone around its 50th season. Which will be in its 26th year. So I don't know if BB they didn't really do a big deal with 25. I don't know if they're waiting for around.

[Taryn Armstrong]

27 is also, like, a really awkward number.

[Puya]

25 was the one where they did. Did that, like the episode Priest before the season started. Right. The whole, like, retrospective. And they had Daniel Reyes as a talk.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Oh, yeah, I remember that.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Because I was busy writing my book at the time and I was like.

[Rob Cestrino]

Oh, look at this perfect content.

[Puya]

All right, let's get more notes in. Yeah. So I think that that was their way of, like, that was their big celebration. But I do like that even though they didn't bring attention to it, there were nods here. Because I think what you don't want is for the former players to just overshadow anything that happens in this season. I feel like they did it tasteful enough where you still can cared more about everything else going on. And they've seemed like a complimentary addition here and there. I think it worked out nice.

[Aman Adwin]

I really felt like during, like, the whole reveal of who's a Mastermind, I was like, hold on. Are they about to, like, reveal some type of, like, special upcoming short season for the winter where it's like BB Revengers where they get the chance to come back and. Because they were all screwed by production or whatever, and they get a chance to come back and compete in a truncated version. I thought for a second, but then it kind of just fell flat. And maybe. But, you know, maybe. Maybe not. Maybe. Maybe we might hear something in the next couple of months or so where, you know, they bring back a couple people because it does, like everyone's been saying it. It feels like they really have been, you know, very kind with bringing back a lot of alumni over the past couple of seasons.

[Rob Cestrino]

And the Winter Olympics has traditionally been when they've done the celebrity. So you never know if they may run something Big Brother against the Winter Olympics in February, but I guess we'll have to wait and see with that. Okay. Anything else from the finale that we didn't touch on?

[Melissa Denny]

Great finale. Just honestly, it was very exciting and I just. I didn't know what was going to happen at any point. And I feel like I don't really get that a lot with finales. I feel like usually we kind of go in kind of knowing what's going to happen. It's. And this time it was like, I have no clue what's going to happen. Even if any of them wins. That final three. Hoh. Like, I don't know where it's going to go. So it was very exciting.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah. A memorable finale. I will say that I cannot remember one thing other than what MJ brought Chelsea to the final two last season from that finale, but I feel like this one will be more memorable.

[Puya]

The only other thing I remember is they sang the janky song at the end to end the season, which I want to ask this question that was horrible, because the way Julie was like, all right, and everyone please say it with me. Is Love one another officially Julie's number one catchphrase?

[Melissa Denny]

Every time she says that, I'm always like, what are they supposed to say? I always am like, what is she asking them?

[Puya]

I always never feels like they're saying it in sync. It never feels like everyone's on the same page.

[Taryn Armstrong]

It definitely looked like a couple of them panicked for the, like.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah. Well, you.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Every time one another. Yeah.

[Melissa Denny]

Expect the unexpected. Like, that's the phrase. Like, why would this love. Love one another. Maybe Julie's phrase, but it has nothing to do with Big brother. Big brother is not about loving one another.

[Rob Cestrino]

Is that what Vince. Yeah.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah. No. Love one another is Julie Chen. Moonves. Okay. But first is Julie Chen. I don't know what this Love one another Julia always says.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Of the show.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah.

[Rob Cestrino]

All right.

[Aman Adwin]

But, you know, I do think it's still a good reminder, you know? Yes. Be kind to everybody. Be kind to the house guests as they get out of the house. Like, it's okay to. To have dialogue about some of the stuff that you've seen. It's okay to have those conversations. But just remember that these are still people alone. Joseph from last season actually uploaded a video talking about mental health, you know, in and out of the game, and.

[Melissa Denny]

People should go watch that. It was honestly really, like, enlightening. And I felt like it was a good reminder to people that, like, these are real people with real feelings, and we don't need to get involved now that they're not in the house anywhere. We don't need to do anything. We don't need to track them down and, you know, go to their work and do things like that. Like, I just.

[Rob Cestrino]

Well, you don't have to worry about that with Vince.

[Melissa Denny]

Leave them alone.

[Aman Adwin]

I knew.

[Melissa Denny]

Leave him alone, Rob. Leave him alone.

[Aman Adwin]

I knew it. You said it up for him.

[Melissa Denny]

Love one another. What do we always say, Rob, that.

[Rob Cestrino]

The people that are listening to this podcast, I think we. We get it. Like.

[Melissa Denny]

The RHP audience is who we need to be saying this to, but I do think that, like, maybe just like, I don't know, like being. Being what you want to see out there and just kind of like being kind to like the people and just letting it be. It's not on us to like, hold people accountable or whatever. Like, just let. Let them be. Like, I'm sure. No, the house, they're gonna like, figure out their own stuff and realize what's going on here. So just like, let it. Let it be.

[Puya]

And remember, Aman is the only one here who has not want to draft an RJP.

[Aman Adwin]

That is not true. I won BBK9 with TishaWN.

[Melissa Denny]

I don't know what you. I don't know.

[Rob Cestrino]

All of you were like, hold on.

[Melissa Denny]

Is that actually, we need to go check.

[Aman Adwin]

This is why I need to win again, because people just get so big for their damn bridges.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Listen, Aman, to be fair, that is not the thing people remember from Big Brother Canada 9 because you put yourself in the corner where you had to eat a chapstick.

[Rob Cestrino]

You know what? I.

[Aman Adwin]

It was.

[Melissa Denny]

He did that to himself and I.

[Aman Adwin]

Did it and I won all in.

[Melissa Denny]

Yeah.

[Taryn Armstrong]

You know what that is?

[Rob Cestrino]

He did do it. You know what I mean?

[Melissa Denny]

But everyone's like, why would you make me the. I have.

[Aman Adwin]

I have done so much growing as a person because normally I would have been coming into this podcast so heated about the fact that I did not whip. But I have grown. I have shown growth. Now get all out of the way. I cannot wait for next. Don't win next season. Then it's going to be who had been. Okay.

[Puya]

Me.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay.

[Aman Adwin]

Yeah.

[Rob Cestrino]

All right.

[Puya]

I'm happy with the result. I'm happy with what happened.

[Rob Cestrino]

What are you going to do?

[Puya]

We'll take it.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay. All right, so we'll keep you posted on everything else that is coming up. As of right now, we have not gotten any official interviews with the contestants by way of. Of cbs. But if anything should come together with that, we will keep you posted on that. And if there's any off season, other podcasts, of course, whether off season slop interviews, of course, you'll be the first to know. All right, Melissa, what's coming up for you now that Big Brother is over?

[Melissa Denny]

Oh, my God. I don't even know. Nothing. I mean, this is my break. I guess I. If there's any. Maybe I'll try and come on an amazing Race podcast or something because it's got Big Brother people on it. I don't know. I'm inviting myself, but yeah, no, I don't have any. No plans. Just you know, doing stuff on Instagram and Blue sky and being a mama. Yeah. Like videos and photos of Callan and stuff so people can see that.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay. All right, well, great talking finale with you tonight, Amon. Besides catching up with Vince, what else is coming up for you?

[Aman Adwin]

I am. Oh my God. I'm having a brain fart by my own stuff. The Diveroom podcast with Matt Liguori. Check that out. We are doing a complete bracket style podcast. Six players enter an episode. Only three will advance on to the next round. As we are trying to whittle down to figure out who is the best Big Brother player of all time. Time we will be. Now that this season is over, we'll be adding them to the bracket so make sure you check us out. We will be continuing this on until we are done.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay. Aman, happy finale night to you.

[Aman Adwin]

Thank you.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay, and then Puya, what's coming up for you?

[Puya]

Well, with Big Brother ending, Trader season is gaining full steam from me. Rob, we got two new seasons coming in October, so let's Celebrity Traders UK starting with their first season this season and BB can a BB can.

[Aman Adwin]

Wow.

[Puya]

Traders can season three coming through so make sure you check those out. I'll be there for both. We'll be talking about that. I'm still talking 90 day talking with Leon every week over on the lounge so you can find that as well. And I think that. Oh, Twitch tv. Puya, find me where where the gamer competitive gamers hang out.

[Rob Cestrino]

Okay. All right. Great job tonight. Puyall And Taryn, after 80 days of live feed updates. Tomorrow you can sleep in.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Since I won't. It doesn't, doesn't work well. And the thing too is that we've hopefully got some deep dives coming. So stay tuned. Ashley, Rachel, who knows, we'll see who's interested in doing something some. So that's on the radar. In just about a week from now, I'm going to be in LA recording the audiobook for my book behind the Mirror. I'm super excited to do it and I know you've all heard me talk about it all summer long and if you're anything like me, you have gone. Yeah, I'll do that later. So there won't be a later anymore. This is your final reminder. Reminder. You're not going to be listening to me for much longer. So there's two things. One, order the book now. Just do it. Don't forget or don't do it. You know, you don't have to no, don't.

[Rob Cestrino]

Don't back off it. They have to.

[Taryn Armstrong]

It's fine. It's fine.

[Puya]

Buying the book.

[Taryn Armstrong]

It's fine. No, I don't deserve it.

[Puya]

Would you throw away the beanie now? Is the beanie gone? We've got. We give the beanie away.

[Taryn Armstrong]

It's gone. I promise.

[Puya]

It's like a Horcrux in your house. Don't keep it.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Taron Armstrong dot com. Order the book. Second thing, if you're interested at all in the kind of content I do, you hear me on the updates all the time. I have a Patreon of my own. I'm doing all kinds of show coverage there. The genius watching things, streaming, Survivor, the Amazing Race, Traders, Canada, all kinds of shows and things to talk about, writing content. It's the best place to keep following me in the off season. Head over there. Those are the two things. Book Patreon. Thank you all so, so much for, for being here all summer long. I genuinely couldn't be more appreciative.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yeah, Taran, it was incredible to follow these adventures of the players all season long through your eyes. Incredible work again all summer long. I want to speak for everybody, say how much we appreciate the work that you do to bring it to us every single day. So thank you for all that. Thanks to everybody who stuck with us for another season of Big Brother. Take care, everybody. Have a good one.

[Taryn Armstrong]

Bye.

[Rob Cestrino]

Yo, this is important, man.

[Taryn Armstrong]

My favorite Lululemon shorts, the ones you.

[Rob Cestrino]

Got me back in the day, I think they're peaceful breakers. The ones with all the pockets.

[Puya]

Well, I just got back from vacation and I think I left them in my hotel room. And dude, I need to replace these shorts.

[Rob Cestrino]

I wear them like every day with.

[Aman Adwin]

That Lulu hoodie you got me.

[Melissa Denny]

Could you send me the link to where you got them?

[Rob Cestrino]

Thanks, bro. Talk soon.

[Melissa Denny]

Looking for your newest go to's shop. Lululemon's best sellers [e-mail].