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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Disney. This Thanksgiving, Judy Hopps and Nick Wilde are back on the big screen. So grab your family and friends as Disney invites you to return to Zootopia for the fur nominal movie event of the holiday season. See all your favorite Zootopia characters, plus new favorites in the most paw eomet movie of the year. Don't miss Disney Zootopia 2 when it hits theaters everywhere November 26th. Get your tickets now.
- [00:30]
B
What do you think makes the perfect snack?
- [00:32]
A
Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really.
- [00:34]
B
Craving it and it's convenient. Could you be more specific when it's cray venient. Okay. Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am pm. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at am pm. I'm seeing a pattern here.
- [00:48]
A
Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.
- [00:49]
B
Crave, which is anything from am, pm.
- [00:51]
A
What more could you want? Stop by ampm where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's Cravenience ampm. Too much Good stuff.
- [01:01]
B
This is the story of the 1. As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast. It's why he partners with Grainger to stay fully stocked on the products and supplies he needs. From tissues to disinfectants to floor scrubbers. All so that he can help students, staff and teachers stay healthy and focused. Call 1-800-granger click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [01:46]
A
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the big truck 27 coverage. We have another deep dive on our hands, and this one, of course, is a big one because Morgan is here with me.
- [02:00]
B
Morgan, I am so excited for this because, you know, I'm a gamer. You know, I'm like a chatty girl. So I love that we're gonna, like, really get into it. I know that you're gonna supply all the goods. I just hope that you're ready. I mean, I also did bring my.
- [02:14]
A
M M's, you know, Boy, hopefully for demonstration purposes.
- [02:19]
B
Exactly. Just in case people forgot. But yes. I'm so excited for this. I know it's like five weeks out. I mean, hey, it's never too late to talk some big brother, right?
- [02:27]
A
Truly. I mean, it's. It's basically my life, so.
- [02:31]
B
Yeah.
- [02:31]
A
Right. I'm of course, your host, Taron Armstrong. And let's. Let's just. Let's dive into this. Morgan because what. It was such a wild season. I just got back from San Francisco. There. We did a live event. There were a lot of people who were like, that was, like, one of the best seasons of coverage we've. We've seen. It was just so intense all the way through. They were like, how are you doing, Aaron?
- [02:59]
B
Are you alive?
- [03:01]
A
It was.
- [03:01]
B
It was.
- [03:02]
A
It was a tough one. It was. It was a lot. There was so much to get through in. In a good way that there was, like, so much in the season. But for as difficult as it is for me to. To be covering the season all the way through, it's infinitely more difficult for the players. So, Morgan, how are you doing? Five weeks out from the finale?
- [03:23]
B
I'm doing great. It was such a fun time to go on a show that my mom and I used to watch. I was, like, a early Big Brother girl, so, like, season 10 and prior. So when I was getting casted and, like, recruited for this, I was like, oh, my God, Big Brother. This is crazy. So after going through everything and just playing my heart out, I was honestly relieved to leave the house and just be done with the game. You know, it was, like, three months out of my life and just kind of wanted to get back into my normal life, get back to streaming and get back to what I love to do and. But I'm. I'm excited. I'm excited to be here and talk.
- [03:56]
A
Yes. Yeah. And, Morgan, we. Because we. We talked a while ago, and we've basically just been, like, trying to find the right time because you very much are, like, ready to dive in. You. You. You have snacks ready? You're.
- [04:15]
B
I came prepared. I feel like I have my little HOH basket here on the side, and this is, like. You know, I feel like I'm in a doctor session right now after my HOH twin. So I'm, like, really excited to have, like, all my snacks, everything, because I'm not leaving. I'm ready.
- [04:29]
A
Yes. And in or in honor of Morgan, as a. As a twitch streamer, we are live for this deep dive, which is not. Not a common thing for the deep dive, so. So I will say up top. We might take a break or two.
- [04:41]
B
Yeah.
- [04:42]
A
Which happens when I do deep dives. There's usually some breaks. We cut some stu. It's all gonna listen just like Big Brother itself, that you have the live feeds of the deep dive here this time. So, yeah, be prepared.
- [04:56]
B
This is me.
- [04:57]
A
Great.
- [04:57]
B
I know live is kind of fun.
- [04:59]
A
Live is very fun. Well, the first thing I want to start with you mentioned that you had been watching since around season 10. What. What got you into Big Brother in the first place?
- [05:11]
B
So my mom was a big fan of Big Brother. My very first season I watched was Season God. I think it was, like, season four, maybe. I barely remember. I mean, that was a while ago. But, like, the season that, like, really clung to me is like, oh, I love Big Brother was season six. Shout out to Janelle. That's my girl. But so that's kind of how it all started, was just like nights with my mom, just watching Big Brother and getting so into it. I never realized I would get so into a show so attached to people. Like, you know, I was like, rioting when Caser got eliminated, like, or, like, you know, evicted, but I was just like, oh. So it was crazy. So then I just got really just hooked on Big Brother. Season 10 was the last season I watched Dan Giesling, of course, like, one of the greatest to ever do it. And then I went to college, kind of got off of Big Brother. But I will say, before going on the show, I binge. And I've never been so happy in my life to binge like, six seasons of Big Brother. I just. I was, like, foaming at the mouth. It was great.
- [06:09]
A
Yeah, it's actually fun. I'm really. Because we're like, the same age, I think so we were both, like, the same age watching. No.
- [06:17]
B
Oh, I was so angry. I, like, when, like, when it was in the pressure cooker, I was screaming at the TV like, don't do it. Don't trust her. She's lying. And I was so. Oh, my God. I would have rioted at the. At the. I don't know how people did it then. Would have rioted.
- [06:33]
A
I. Yeah, well. Well, that's very fun. So, like, what. What brought you back to Big Brother? I guess with the. They reach out to you? Did you like, what happened?
- [06:46]
B
Yeah, so I got a DM on Instagram and they're like, hey, we're casting for an upcoming TV show. Want to know if you'd be interested. And I was like, sure. Like, what are we talking about? Like, what show? And they're like, big Brother. And I was like, oh, like, Big Brother, this is crazy. So that's kind of what got me back into it. And I was also being, like, looked at by Survivor as well. I guess they're the same casting directors and so they're like, oh, let's Big Brother first. And then they loved me there, went to the final audition in la and then Got the call that I was going to get picked up, and I was like, oh, my God, this is, like, actually happening. I remember, like, packing my bag, following the rules, making sure I, like, packed everything the way it was supposed to, and then getting to the house and being like, I have literally nothing to wear. It was insane. But. But, yeah, that's kind of how it, like, transpired. Was just getting recruited and then next thing you know, I'm getting the call that they're picking me up in 30 minutes. And I was like, oh, my God, it's happening. I'm going to sequester.
- [07:36]
A
Yeah. Did. Did you make it? Did you get anywhere with Survivor? Was it kind of quickly go toward Big Brother?
- [07:42]
B
It was one of those things where I first was like, they actually first called me like, hey, we're looking at you for Big Brother. And I was like, okay, great. I was in the middle of watching a competition from season 26, and I got a call being like, hey, they're actually going to go a different direction. But Survivor loves you. I remember just finishing that episode, bawling my eyes out because I was like, I wanted to go on Big Brother so bad. And then I talked to, like, people over at Survivor, and then I got a call back a couple days later. I was literally in the middle of an Apex game, full on in, and I get. I see my casting director on my phone and I'm like, what? And so I literally. I've never, like, I would never quit a game that I'm playing, but I was like, oh, this is way more important. I was like, sorry, guys. I'm like, telling, like, my. My teammates. I'm like, guys, I'm afk. Like, I'm not gonna be available, like, if you guys get, you know, killed. Like, not my fault. Like, I got an important call and they. They called back and they're like, actually, it was a misunderstanding. They both love you. Like, Big Brother loves you and Survivor. So, like, let's start with Big Brother. And then that's just kind of how it happened.
- [08:34]
A
All right. Well, yeah, I mean, I think you'd be great on Survivor. I think.
- [08:38]
B
Yeah, I. I think so. I just think. Yeah, right. Maybe I'll get the call for that.
- [08:44]
A
Yeah. Okay. So you. You're on Big Brother. Obviously you watched a bunch of seasons. You mentioned, what else did you do to prepare? But also, like, for the seasons that you were watching, like, what were you taking away? I think, like, what were you going into the. The. The season sort of, like, armed with.
- [09:04]
B
Yeah, that's A great question. When I was watching, like, some of the greats, like Janelle and Dan and some of the people that I like, really admired, Dr. Will, like, I kind of just watched how they would play the game, how they would maneuver through really difficult, like, situations or conversations. And even in, like, modern day, like, I watched Taylor Hale, I watched Chelsea. Like, I just watched a lot of players that I was, like, really interested in, and some of them was, like, weren't even. Some of them weren't even, like, winners, for example. I was watching pretty much people that just kind of reminded me of me. Like, I watched Casey or Tyler, and I just kind of, like, watched how they played the game. Obviously, I haven't played that game before, but I'm. As a gamer, I like to study, like, the game and try to figure out different angles or different things and how I want to play the game. Like, do I want to be honest and loyal? Do I want to be more deceptive? And so I knew I wanted to just go in playing as myself, but I did as best as I could to study the competitions. Even, like in the in sequester, I actually made note cards out of. So, like, when we're in there, we get, like, little packets for, like, what we can order for lunch. And there was a blank page at the very end, so I ripped it and I created little flashcards for, like, how many, like, seconds are in an hour or whatever, which is kind of ironic considering my double. Double eviction veto was in minutes. But anyway, I was, like, studying that way. I was just trying to prepare myself for anything and everything. And I mean, it's expected and expected. I don't think no matter how much preparation I could have done, it couldn't have prepared me for Big Brother anyway. But I did the best that I could at least.
- [10:38]
A
Yeah. I mean, I think that's huge, obviously, especially I think with the. The kinds of casts that Big Brother is focusing on, especially in comparison to Survivor. On Survivor, they. They love people who love Survivor, and on Big Brother, I think they love people who will make silly choices.
- [11:00]
B
Right. They want the chaos. They want the drama. They want. They want it all.
- [11:05]
A
I feel like if you do actually do your homework and you have a good baseline level of knowledge, it does give you a big leg up over people who kind of go in thinking like, hey, like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna figure it out on the fly. We saw that a little bit with. With Kelly.
- [11:22]
B
Yes.
- [11:23]
A
Who thought it was a great idea to volunteer in the first week. Unfortunately.
- [11:26]
B
I remember When I first found that out, I was gagged. I'm like, girl, you don't volunteer to go on the block. You can't do that because you might actually go home. Which, lucky for her, she was the blockbuster queen, so she, you know, she didn't have to go home. But that's like, the one way to go home is by volunteering.
- [11:45]
A
All right, so you. Anything else in the preseason that you feel like you. You were doing or feeling that before you. You went in?
- [11:54]
B
I was just watching as many episodes as I could. Like, once I got the date of pickup, I was just, like, literally jamming out episodes. Like, every. Like, when I wasn't working at the restaurant, jamming episodes. Like, when I wasn't streaming jamming episodes. I was. I was paying attention to the competitions how, like, certain strategies. Like, let's say Tucker, when he won, like the. Like, when. When. Whatever. Like, if he won a competition or other people, I would see, like, their, like, their strategy to see if it would be something that I would do or how I would do something different. So I just tried to work literally every possible angle of what I could do or what I couldn't have, like, what I would do differently on anything. Like, booth comps, everything. And even, like, social, like, social strategy. I just knew I was going to go in as myself, and I was like, hopefully people like me because I feel like I'm pretty, you know, I get along well without other people. But that was kind of it. And I was just hoping for the best.
- [12:44]
A
Yeah, I think. I think, like, obviously the game format, it's really important to know so that, like, you don't ask questions like, could I get nominated if I use the veto? Which happened on your season. It did. Genuinely, I would say, like, especially with. And I'm. I'm a. I'm a big talker about this. I talk about competitions a lot. But, like, the. Easily. If you had, like, one thing you could do before you went on Big Brother, I think what you were talking about, looking up the best strategies to win competitions is probably the most valuable thing that you can do. Because competitions are so winnable and are so important. Important nowadays on Big Brother. So.
- [13:25]
B
Right.
- [13:26]
A
Yeah, it's. We've seen people do that before, too. Michael from BB24 was. Had really, like, studied up on, like, all of the best strategies and stuff.
- [13:35]
B
Yes. He was so good. And he, like. I think the other thing that I realized, too, is, like, knowing when it's important to win versus when not to win, because if you win too much like, like, like we saw with Michael, like, he just kept winning where it was like, if he didn't win, like, and he knew. He said that. He's like, if I don't win the veto today, I'm going home. And, like, everybody knew that. So it's like that kind of mentality of like, okay, do you want to win this because you just want to win something, or do you want to win because it's going to advance you in the game and put you in a better position? So.
- [14:05]
A
Well, that. That I guess brings me pretty quickly into the. The first week. And. And I usually talk about this with the deep dives that the first roughly six days, no feeds. So it is the most amount of, like, blind spots that we have as a fandom.
- [14:23]
B
Right.
- [14:24]
A
So it's always interesting to hear, you know, especially because we know how important those days are. We talk about Michael season, Taylor's season. Those days were incredibly important to understanding the dynamics that Taylor eventually faced. So, so you enter the house. What is. What is the gameplay? Are you planning to throw the first hoh. Are you, like, what is your vibe with. With everyone there? Like, what's going on?
- [14:52]
B
Yeah. So when I first walked in, I was the last group, and I didn't realize I was gonna be the last group. I thought we were gonna be like, one of the first ones. But then when I hear, like, the eruption of people, when the group before me walked in, I was like, oh, my God, are we the last people? So you go in and it's just like, everyone. You're seeing different, like, different people. Like, the first person I saw was Riley. I was like, oh, we have a cowboy. And then I saw, you know, like, Amy. I was like, oh, she's like a mom. And, like, what? Because, like, she was talking about her kids. And like, I was like, oh, we have so many different dynam. It was just kind of everywhere. You're trying to figure out what's going to happen. Like, should we start running around the house and finding clues, like, what are we doing? You know? And then it's just a bunch of conversation. Then I'm trying to figure out, like, okay, like, who's more quiet. I was just looking and kind of observing of, like, who was the loud ones, who were the more quiet ones, who seemed to attract a lot of people towards them or who felt I was just kind of looking and just observing and. But also being, like, myself and stuff. So it was quite interesting. I feel like my first general vibe was like, okay, like, everyone seems pretty Cool. Which probably means we're all gonna hate each other. So that's great, you know, because usually when you get along well with everyone, it's like, okay, who's gonna be the one who actually starts to cause discourse? Because if we're all gonna be friends, that's not gonna work in this house. And then that's when we learned about the Mastermind. And I was like, oh, okay, here we go. Now we're playing Big Brother because now we have a twist and we see Rachel coming down the stairs. So that was quite interesting. I didn't watch Rachel's season, but anyone who watches Big Brother knows who Rachel Riley is. And I remember just hearing little comments about, like, oh, she won a season. Like, we need to get her out. And I actually wanted to work with her. I was like, she's won the season. You know, when. When you're with somebody or like in the same room as someone who's. Who's won something, it makes sense to, like, align yourself. Like, if you go to a quarterback camp and Tom Brady's there, you're going to learn from Tom Brady. You're not going to go learn from somebody else. Shout out to all the Patriot fans.
- [16:41]
A
But, yeah, yeah, no. And that's. That's interesting. You know, there's a lot of discourse about seasons with like a sole returner or like a mixed season where there's like four former players and all, and then all new players that they're. That they're playing with. And. And basically what tends to happen is the returning player has almost always made it to the final two. They don't always win, but they almost always the final two, unless there are some extenuating circumstances. In this case, we had a hamster wheel of death in. In BB11, of course, the coup d'. Etat. But apart from those outliers, like, it's pretty, Pretty common. They get to the end. And the other pretty common thing that happens is if you try to go against them early on, you are a first or second boot. And so. So it's always this idea of, like, how do play with somebody who has played before because they have so much more experience and knowledge than you. And so, yes, there is this notion of, like, I can learn from them, but then they're also very dangerous. Like, how far can you go? And I think for me, the answer is what you said. It's. You have to. You have to work with them early on because not only is it dangerous not to, because they have way more experience than you, and you're very likely to get, you know, cut in that sense. But also, like, the producers aren't going to bring a person on the show and then have them. Like, there's probably like, this is what happened with Paul and Cody, where Cody was like, I'm going to take Paul out. And then Paul was like, sorry, these bracelets. Yeah. So it's like, you do kind of have to work with them, but then it's like, okay, when do you then? And how do you turn the tables on them eventually? So I'm very excited to talk to you about that later on.
- [18:31]
B
Yeah.
- [18:32]
A
But so you see Rachel Riley. One of the things I thought was interesting about Rachel coming onto this season in particular as well, and I to her about this a little bit, was that Rachel Riley's reputation in the community is for, you know, obviously, she's a winner, but, like, she was known more for being, like, a personality, a force of nature.
- [18:50]
B
Right.
- [18:50]
A
But a lot of the people in the house didn't actually see her seasons at best, in Keanu's case, they watched some clips of her.
- [18:58]
B
That was me, too. I didn't watch her season either.
- [19:00]
A
Right. And so there was this perception that she was like some kind of mastermind character, which was never really Rachel's speed. Granted, she played a lot more like that this season than she did previously. But it was so interesting to me because it almost felt like if people had actually seen her season, they would be less scared of her than they ended up. Because she built. She had this reputation of being so, like, shady and manipulative. And it was like, she's actually one of the more, like, loyal.
- [19:29]
B
Loyal.
- [19:30]
A
She never really turned on anyone. She was just stuck with her allies in one comps.
- [19:34]
B
Yeah, I remember when I was. When I saw her come down, I remember Jimmy had mentioned, like, oh, she's won the season before. She was a savage. We need to get her out. And so I was like, oh, like, she's a savage. That might be kind of fun to team up with. Like, I would need somebody who would want to be down for that. And the one thing that I had, like, my first strategy was actually not ever approaching anyone and being like, hey, we should work together. I wanted people to approach me because I didn't want to come off that. I was, like, gaming even harder than people already thought that I was. And specifically with Rachel, I was like, you know, I'm just gonna talk with her. Just kind of crossed she'll approach me and want to, like, work with me. And she did. And I was like, oh, thank God. Because I also did not want her to think that I was only wanting to work with her because she had won the game before. I didn't want it to come off like, oh, I'm just gonna like, use you to get to the end. Of course you want to, like I said, learn from the best or like one of the best. So it's like, naturally I wanted to work with her because of that, but that wasn't the sole reason why, you know.
- [20:35]
A
Yeah, it's something I, I feel like my sort of interpretation of how you tended to approach people in relationships was that you seem to gravitate toward, you know, obviously you really identify as a gamer. And it seemed to me that you, I, that you gravitate toward other people who were competitive and strategic, which is very fun for us because it means that all the strategic and competitive people are working together. And like, there is another approach which is like, sometimes players want to take out all of the other strategic gamers and so that they can be surrounded with like a bunch of sheep, so to speak. But that never seemed to be your speed. And, and I think, I think that makes sense too because like, at the end of the day, if you do that and then you're surrounded by less competitive people, how do you keep a strong bond with them if you don't have as much in common? Right, right. And you're gravitating toward the people that I. This again, this is my interpretation that you see that you had more in common with that were like there to play the game.
- [21:44]
B
No, absolutely. I really wanted to align myself with people that wanted to play the game because at the end of the day, like, I knew how my brain functions, I knew how I was going to play this game. I knew I was going to literally go over every single option a hundred times in my head and then make sure that I'm like, okay, this is exactly what I'm doing. And I knew I didn't want anyone else to deter my decisions. But I also wanted to surround myself with people who wanted to play the game because if they want to play too, we can strategize to get to the end. The whole point is to get to the end. It's not to get, you know, evicted week, you know, pre jury or anything. It's just not to get evicted at all. You know, you want to, you want to win the game. So I wanted to make sure I was playing with people who felt the same passion and that were willing to not be afraid to make big moves. Or strategize all night long or whatever it was going to take to make sure that we survived week after week after week.
- [22:33]
A
Yeah. So the heavy hitters obviously form, but even beyond that, the. When the feeds came on the night of day six, we'd already seen that there was a lot of, like. I wouldn't say solid structures, but, like, there was a rough power structure. And I think, especially looking back at it, a lot of what we talked about in the first many weeks of the season was like, this is such a fluid season because there's typically. There's one big majority alliance, and then everything kind of stems from that in some way or another. And that was kind of the heavy hitters, but not really, because it was barely an alliance.
- [23:17]
B
Barely an alliance. I wanted it so bad. That alliance was going to be deadly if we, you know, I mean, I won't say we. Like, I know that Riley was not interested in being seen with the alliance, and I'm just like, brother, we're playing big brother, you know, like, this is. I get it. It's probably a little intimidating because it's week one, but there's ways that you can navigate and meet with a group without it being obvious, you know, I was so excited for that group. I was like, oh, this is gonna be good. Like, because when you look around, you see people who are athletic. You see strata, like, people who are strategizing, people who probably don't look like they're gonna work together. So I was so happy. And then I had that conversation with Riley in the storage room where he's like, yeah, I don't want to, like, meet. I'm still down, but, like, I'm just not going to meet. And I'm like, okay. Like, sure, okay.
- [24:08]
A
Yeah. But I guess my point is that, like, over those few. Few weeks, we kept talking about how, like, things just kept shifting. They kept going all over the place, and it was really hard to nail down, like, what is the structure? What are we actually looking at? And from my perspective, looking back at it, I think the. The one thing that, like, any kind of power structure ever had in common throughout the season was you. I think that you were, like, at the center of the heavy hitters. I think that you were at the center of, you know, whatever else. And there were other things that tried to form, and we'll talk about those, of course, like, the bond and all of these other alliances. And, yeah, there was a point where, like, Zach and Vince were, like, maybe going in a different direction, but at the end of the day you always pulled people either back in or they moved to where you went. And. And I think that, like, the season kind of becomes more clear when you're able to see it from that perspective. So tell me about, like, how. How this started. Like, where did you. Did you feel people gravitating toward you or did you put. Pull them together in those first few days? Like, what. What was the formation of the heavy hitters and the relationship you develop there?
- [25:23]
B
So it was a little bit of both. The first group that actually approached me was. Well, actually, the first person was Jimmy. I was sitting with Mickey in the wine room and he came to us and was like, I love this triple threat. So that was the first alliance that I had that formed, and I was going to ride that to the end of time. I was going to take that to final three because I obviously, as everyone saw, I was a very honest and loyal player. So, like, I was loyal to triple threat. So I was super excited about that. And then obviously, Zach and Vince approached me in the same kind of manner, like, we want to work with you. I was like, great. Now I have like a group of three here. A group of three here. They're also not the same, so this is great. I can kind of work with this. And so then when. When Jimmy wanted to create the heavy hitters, I created the name, but he wanted to create, like, he was the. The person who essentially started the heavy hitters. And I trusted Jimmy, as I said, because he approached me, I felt really good about him. So when he got the group, I was like, oh, this is great. We have Rachel in here. We have, like, people like Zach and Riley who look like they're going to be physical competitors. Obviously, Rachel and I are going to do that. And like, Vince obviously, like, had won the hoh. So, like, we were just in good. We were in a really good place. So I loved that. But what I would say is, like, the heavy hitters, I think the issue, like I said, was, you know, someone didn't want to really be in it. And so I'm like, okay, this. That's kind of how it, like, kind of crumbled. And that was like something that kind of, you know, concerned a lot of us because, I mean, we said it a lot. I mean, we even had a meeting with. With Jimmy in his HOH room at one point where it's like, look, I mean, maybe we can just ride with us. But when. When those two separate groups formed, I knew regardless of whether the heavy hitters was going to create I had two solid groups that I could potentially either combine or work kind of both to see if I could create something bigger. Which is then when you see after Jimmy's evicted, that I bring Mickey into Zach and Vince because I. They were targeting each other, and I'm like, no, not on my watch. We're not going to do that because I need you guys to get along, because I have a final two with Mickey and I have essentially, like, an end game with, like, Zach and Vince. So, like, that was kind of like my strategy in the beginning was, like, seeing who was gravitating towards me, who wanted to create an alliance, keep that solid, show them that I'm very loyal, that I'm going to strategize. That's when I started really strategizing with people and then hope for the best.
- [27:37]
A
Yeah. And. Yes. And this is. This is what like. Like, like my notes for the deep dives that I. That I wrote was that, you know, the alliance forms called the heavy hitters. It consists of you, Jimmy, Zach, Rachel, Vince, Riley. But unbeknownst to Jimmy, you're really at the center of it. Morgan is really at the center of it because you were in triple threat with him and Mickey, who's obviously outside of the heavy hitters. But then you also have that strong connection to Zach and Vince, and he felt like he did too. But as we saw, yours was much stronger, and he didn't really see that.
- [28:09]
B
Yeah.
- [28:10]
A
And. And then you also had this good connection to Rachel. You know, Jimmy's probably proves to be a bit stronger by the end of their tenure, but at this point, it was pretty equal. So. So you're in this good position, and I want to just tell you, like, my experience, when the feeds come on, it's. It's the night of day six. And. And Vince is thinking about. And we'll talk about the nominations a bit more, but, like, Vince is thinking about who the replacement nominee should be. And. And Keanu and Kelly are pitching him. Jimmy. It's got to be Jimmy. It's got to be Jimmy. And Kelly's like, I don't want to go up anymore. And. And meanwhile, Jimmy is like, it's got to be Keanu. And. And you are, like, not really on the same page as Jimmy at all. And Jimmy's up in the hoh room and he's got his, like, sunglasses on. He's just kind of, like, acting like he's the king of the house and you are not backing down. And immediately. And there were people, because I was. I did a 24 hour stream for the first day of feeds. There were people in my chat who were like, oh, is this, is this bad for Morgan to be doing this? Like, because she's picking a fight with Jimmy. And my response was like, no, I actually really love this because she seems to be in a good position and she's not just letting that sort of like, quell her. She's not letting us a thing go just because, you know, she's afraid to, to like, raise a fuss or anything like that. She's actively making sure that if you're in a good position, it should mean that you have influence, that you are able to get the things you want done done. If you're not able to do that, if you feel like you're in a good position but your opinions get sidetracked, sidelined by somebody else who's getting what they want to have happen happen, then is it really a good position? And immediately I, I was able to recognize in you that, like, this is an active player who is not just going to sit back and let things happen. You are going to make sure that if, you know, if you can't get zay out this week, if you can't get zay up on the bar, like say out this week, because your alliance doesn't agree with it, then maybe that's not the alliance for you and you need to learn that quick for you while you can still do something about it. And so this is, I think, another part of why ultimately the heavy hitters didn't work was because if it wasn't going to work for you, it wasn't going to work at all. And, and for Jimmy, that was a problem because Jimmy wanted to be that person. Basically. You and Jimmy, I think, had different idea, different visions for the alliance, and I think because of that, it was never going to fully function. And then on the other side of things, of course you had Rachel and Vince who had very different visions as well. But. But yeah, it's. I, I just, I want you to speak on this, like, because that, that is not something that I see very often, somebody who is willing to stand their ground, especially so early, especially when you could have felt very comfortable.
- [31:18]
B
Yeah. So I think where I was at was like, obviously the heavy hitters was forming, but I felt Jimmy was almost coming on a little too strong about being super adamant about something happening week one where I'm like, I don't think that Keanu was as big of a target as Jimmy was trying to make him out to be. And I'm like, if we allow this, we're going to create even more enemies than we need to. Obviously, I didn't exactly know at that time who Keanu was aligned with, but when Jimmy was very, very, very adamant, there was also a time where Rachel and I were wanting to work with Keanu as well. So I was like, I don't want Keanu up on the block because Keanu could be somebody very great to work with. So if Jimmy does get his way and gets Keanu up on the block, then I'm starting. Like, I. Like, that was just not gonna work for me. Like, I'm like, this is not gonna happen. Like, just frankly, what? It wasn't gonna happen. And I also feel like in a lot of the conversations that I had with Jimmy, I wanted someone who was going to be more open minded to whether things happened or didn't happen. And he was just very, nope, it has to be Keanu. It has to be Keanu. And that's when I was kind of like, okay, I don't know if this is gonna be somebody that I'll be able to work with very well, because it's just. Just this is what I want or not. Which essentially was similar to me, however, I was kind of looking at as a team aspect of, like, is this really going to be beneficial for the heavy hitters? No, but you're very adamant about it, which tells me you're kind of being more of a selfish player. And I think early on in seasons, that's where people can struggle with building, creating, like, valuable friendships or relationships in the house is if they're too selfish about their own, because then people are going to look at them like, oh, you don't seem like a team player.
- [32:55]
A
So, yeah, I think. I think there is a balance, because I think if you play, I guess there are often people who will be playing for themselves and framing it as like, this is what's best for the team. Right, right. And so I think it can be very easy to kind of be like, all right, well, I don't want to push too hard for what I want, because they're making a good argument for the team. But the reality is they're just, you know, pulling for what they want and. And you slowly find yourself walking into essentially, like a trap the person has said. And what you seem to do here was, you know, you reach this almost kind of a dead end with Jimmy. He was always going to be pushing for Keanu. Zach and Vince seemed. Zach was kind of like, could go one way. He Changed his mind in the middle of a conversation. And Vince was, like, very torn, seemingly. And so you were able to find another source of, like, support in Rachel, who also had the same vision as you that, like, hey, maybe we can work with Keanu, and, yeah, we should get Zay out of this house.
- [34:02]
B
Yeah. Because I think. And I. I know a lot of, like, people in the house. You're still trying to, like, figure people out and see things. Like I said, I was, like. I was, like, studying people. If you. I say studying because it's like. I don't know how else to phrase it, but, like, Zay was playing chess all the time, and he was teaching people chess. And I know this is like, is it really that big of a deal, Morgan? Yes. When you think about the game of chess. I've been wanting to learn that since I A kid. They taught me in one day, and I beat him in one day. Like, I literally actually accidentally checkmated him. And I was like, oh, God, we really need to get him out, because this was a complete accident on me checkmating him. But it's like. It's a game where you have to think three steps ahead. You have to see moves ahead of time, which is essentially what Big Brother is and how I was playing Big Brother. So I was like, okay, this guy is teaching people chess. He's starting to turn up his social game because he's on the block, because his social game was, like, a full 180. He went from, like, only talking to people he really wanted to to then talking to everyone. And he was very likable. I mean, I was like. At the point where I was like, damn, if I didn't tell Amy that I was going to keep her, I might actually reconsider, you know, speaking to him. But then I had the one on one with him with Rachel, which was quite interesting. But regardless, I just felt more of a bigger threat to. With, say, because 1. We also did not connect. I connected with Keanu, despite our, like, you know, issue with the snake calling and whatever. Like, we squashed it. And so after that, I was like, okay, cool. Like, I can get past that. We had an adult conversation. Like, that's also what you want to look for in a teammate is someone who can be like, hey, you know what? I was wrong. My bad. Or whatever, because this is a game where you have to last long, where, like, with Zay, it was just it to me, he was only wanting to work with people he. He wanted to work with, and that just wasn't me. So, I mean, it wasn't valuable for me to keep him inside the house.
- [35:42]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think that just in general, like a player like Zay, if he's on the block, he should be voted out.
- [35:51]
B
Just, Just right.
- [35:52]
A
You know, he's too much of a bro. He's too physically fit. He's too potentially social. If you are not one of his guys, then he's a problem for you and he's going to be way harder to take out down the line. And these were arguments that you guys were making and very effectively. So. It was wild to me that anybod considered anything else.
- [36:15]
B
I thought the same thing. I was like, guys, he. He was a college cheerleader. Like, they're extremely athletic. Like, he's clearly sociable. I remember there was one night where everyone was up on like the blue couch and he was making a group of people just hysterically laugh. And everyone, Everyone started like, oh, I love. Say he's hilarious. And I'm like, get him out. You know, I'm just like, no. Like, this is not happening. Like, we can't keep somebody, especially over someone who, in my opinion, could have been easily beat. And like, I learned this from Rachel. Rachel was like Morgan, like, because she kind of gave me little tips early on, which is why I was like, I was like a sponge when it comes to. When it came to Rachel. She had told me, she's like, if.
- [36:50]
A
You are ever opposite of Keanu, basically.
- [36:52]
B
Right. But she was like, Morgan, if you, like when you play this game, she's like, if you ever come down to a situation where if you have to put yourself one to one, can. If you can, can you beat them in a physical competition or can you beat them in a mental. And if any of those questions are no or multiple of them are no or majority are no, they have to go. And so, like, when it came to Zay versus Amy, I was like, oh, I would probably have a harder time beating Zay than Amy. So to me, a no brainer. And that's also what I told Vince and Zach when we were in the wine room once. Zach was very adamant about keeping Zay. I'm sure for probably reasons that he was probably aligned with him or something. And he's like, yeah, I just want. He's like, I want to keep competitors in the house. And this. I'm like, so you want to keep somebody that could potentially beat you? That doesn't make sense, you know, so that was kind of the angle that I was working because I was like, Oof. Like, he. They were very much like pros a. And I was like, well, let's get you guys on the other side of things, which at the first eviction, I don't think. I think they voted to keep say. Which made sense. Sense, to be honest with you.
- [37:45]
A
Yeah. So. Well, yeah, I mean, obviously, like, it's. Again, because it's. You know, when you're in an alliance, obviously there are. There are different competing interests, like, for. For. For Zach. He was best buds with Zay. Zay was always a number for Zach, which is bad for you guys.
- [38:03]
B
So.
- [38:06]
A
Yeah, and. And honestly, like, the big critique that I often had for Zach and sometimes or often Vince as well throughout the. Especially the first part of the season was like. Like they didn't stand up for their people and up. Like, they should have tried harder for Zay. They should have tried harder for. For some of these people that they just kind of let go as, like, Adrian, I'm sure we'll talk about.
- [38:29]
B
Great example. Yep.
- [38:31]
A
So. And. And again, that's where I think I mentioned this when I was talking to, like, Ashley and Rachel that, like, you guys carrying this vote was really impactful for the rest of the season because you shouldn't have had the numbers. You know, Zay had the numbers. There were more people in the. In that sphere of influence that wanted to do that, and they were making alliances, the bond, the burger boys, you know, specifically so that they could pick up votes, and they just couldn't. And in particular, Lauren and Catherine, somehow being on your side for this vote, even though basically never being on your side again.
- [39:07]
B
Right.
- [39:09]
A
And then even people like. Like Ava just being like, their arguments just make more sense.
- [39:15]
B
Right.
- [39:15]
A
You know, it's. This was a very. Just a. Such a great example for me because I feel like a lot of people will say, you know, don't. Don't play too hard in the. In the beginning. Don't, don't. Don't push too hard. Don't. You know, you won't lie low. But this is an example of a team of players pushing hard and making sure that they got their way on this one vote and changing the course of the entire season. And because everyone else was like, I don't want to push too hard against it, they let it happen, and then they lost a number.
- [39:50]
B
Right. And that was something I think Rachel and I, like, noticed early because I know even specifically when I was talking with Zach and Vince, like you said, they didn't really push back. So I was like, okay, cool. Like, I'm going to kind of keep pushing because since they're not pushing back, I'm going to keep pushing and just, like, in a very logical way. But I also use, like, a little thing where I was like, hey, look, like, if we're on the opposite side of the votes this week, it's okay. Like, it's the first week. I'm not going to blame you guys. And that was totally strategic because I wanted them to trust me. So it's like, oh, if she's not going to be mad about it, cool, we'll still work with her. Because I didn't want it to be where it's like, I'm pushing what I want and then being like, okay, she's doing too much. Like, we can't work with her. It was more of like, hey, like, this is what I think logistically, you guys are gonna do what you want. I'm totally respectful of that. Let's get, like, no matter what happens week two, let's. Let's reconvene and figure something out. And it was kind of the same thing with Catherine and Lauren. When I was out by the pool with them, I never really had spoken game with them particularly, but they had been adamant about wanting to speak game. So when we first talked about, say, I just kind of leaned on the fact of, like, look, like we're already. I won't say, like, at a disadvantage because I don't think that women cannot beat men at all. But I do think seeing how the boys were really kind of gravitating towards each other, I was like, you know, I think this is something that we have to just be mindful of because at the end of the day, if we. I kind of gave him the same analogy of, like, if we are looking at, say, can we beat him in a physical competition? Can we beat him in a mental competition? And, like, after this, this was like the veto after Ashley won. Thank God he was the second. He was the person who was second closest to winning that veto. So I was like, this is something we have to look at. Like, that was a mental competition with, like, a little bit of physicality because they're running. I was like, that's. This is something we need to look at, guys. Like, Amy was nowhere near close. Close to winning that veto, nor the first ho or. Nor the competition with the. Because we had separate, you know, competition at the very beginning. So those were kind of like the angles that I was using, and it luckily worked.
- [41:39]
A
Yeah. I mean, something that I have talked about for years, especially because it was a problem that was sort of deepening was that, you know, at around Big Brother 25, which was kind of the peak of it, the previous, like, five years of Big Brother, men won 75% of competitions to women winning 25%. So they were winning three times as many competitions as women, which is a wild stat. And last season and this season, I think, have helped shift that around a bit.
- [42:14]
B
We love to see women winning.
- [42:16]
A
I. And I think a big part of that, too, is that they are casting more like. Like. Like athletes. Like, you were an athlete, Chelsea McKenzie. And. And that's, I think, helping because, you know, I think there are many reasons why this isn't. This has been an issue for competitions, but I think one of the things that we talked about is that they tend to cast men for athleticism and women not for athleticism quite as much. And so that was an issue. But. But what that translates to in the game is that, yes, if you are somebody who is not as athletic and you see somebody ATH the block, you should want them gone because they are a massive obstacle in your way. And people say, like, oh, well, you know, not all competitions are physical. There are some luck ones. There are some mental ones. But the issue is that, like, in a luck competition or even a mental competition, almost anyone can win. Like, you've got, like, maybe a 50, 50, maybe you have a small edge. Maybe you're better at memory or whatever. But in a physical competition, if somebody is more athletic than you, it's a brick wall.
- [43:23]
B
You're just pretty much gonna beat them.
- [43:25]
A
So the physical competitors winning, like, 99% of physical competitions, and then they're also still winning 50% of the other competitions. That's a huge difference, for sure.
- [43:35]
B
And I think since we had Rachel added to our roster, like, on the show, we had more women than men. So I was also like, okay, let's get out as many of the guys that aren't working with me as possible, because I don't want to have. Have one more person to compete against more than I already have. And like I said, Zay was going to be a huge competitor. I said that since the very first time I saw his game kind of really transform. And here's the other thing. He had never seen Big Brother. So to see him go from coming in and just be like, yeah, bro, like, I love being here, to then, like, strategizing and pulling people for one on ones and campaigning, I was like, oh, yeah, this guy's got to go. Which was great. It worked out. And like you said, I think it really helps shape, like, the trajectory of the game for sure.
- [44:19]
A
All right. We should obviously also talk about Shower Gate, the inciting incident to the first set of nominations. Yeah, I think Zay was. Was always going to be a nominee because he was just an. One of the immediate candidates for the. The accomplice. And so it was funny because we talked about this, that, like, the. The two candidates were Riley and Zay, and Riley was very upset that everyone voted him, but I was like, no, that's actually best case scenario is people vote for you and you're not the accomplice, because now you are definitively not the accomplice.
- [44:58]
B
Right. You kind of gain sympathy and things. I went up to Riley and I was like, hey, just so you know, like, I voted for you. I. Because I wanted to be transparent with him and be like, hey, I voted for you. So that way maybe he would kind of be like, oh, that was nice. She was honest. I can trust her. And, you know, someone's not lying to my face. And so I was like, I voted for you. I was like, to be honest, it was just kind of like, because, I mean, we got steamrolled. People were just like, it's say or. Or Riley. I'm like, hey, as long as you guys aren't saying my name, like, I don't really care, which. It wouldn't have mattered anyway. But, yeah, I. I agree. I think it was good for him that. That his name was brought up because everyone loved Riley. Like, nobody was targeting him. Well, to his knowledge. But, yeah, I think that. I think that helped him, but unfortunately not say, because I know Vince had mentioned to me that. Because they never really went out of his way to speak to Vince. That's why he was on the block, was because he just didn't garner, like, a relationship with him.
- [45:47]
A
Yeah. And so then Showergate happens. And I think we've kind of heard that this kind of stemmed from. From Catherine primarily. And then kind of, you know, once. Once something like that is out there, and it's like there's a scapegoat. It often spirals. And something I talked to Ashley about, too, is that, like. And you had. You had brought this up on the feeds that, like, Catherine and Lauren were like the other women at Ashley's age range, like, the people that she should have been able to relate to and have an in with. And so the fact that they, like Catherine was, like, the person shunning her to some degree was, like, especially damning because, like, her, the people that were supposed to be her in group or should have been her in group were rejecting her. And that meant that she should have nobody and should be easy to target it, right?
- [46:44]
B
And it was interesting because we were all sitting in the attic room. Adrian was actually talking about his praying mantis stuff. And Catherine comes in and just, like, plops down and was like. And just kind of spilled the tea. And all of us were just kind of like, wait, what? Like, we're talking about praying mantises now. It's like the shower gate. And the reason why it also exploded was. Was because Keanu talked about it a lot. And so I know I had just said some, you know, things, obviously, when you first hear something, I was like, oh, wow. I was like, that's really inconsiderate. And then in my head, I was like, okay, let me tell Ashley that I said that because I don't want it to come off that I'm talking about her behind her back. But based on what was said, like, that sounded pretty inconsiderate if you're going to be in a shower for 17 hours, you know, while the HOH needs one. So I remember talking to her, and I was like, hey, I'm just gonna let you know, like, this is what I said. So you know what came directly from me, but at the same time, you know what happened. So don't let anyone make you go crazy and think that, like, what did happen really did. Like, if, you know, you didn't do that, then, girl, who cares? Because I liked Ashley, we didn't necessarily, like, initially connect, connect, but I had no reason not to like her. And I felt like this could also be a time where we could maybe, like, she could find trust in me or something, where I'm just kind of, like, being like, hey, this is what was said on my end. I didn't actually tell her who said anything because I just didn't want to be messy about, like, who started stuff. But I was just, like, kind of letting her know, like, hey, this is kind of what's going down. This is what I said. So, you know.
- [48:02]
A
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, it. This is. And this brings us back a little bit to, like, the heavy hitters thing, where I think a lot of people are looking at Jimmy as sort of the ringleader of all of this. But in reality, I felt like you were actually at the center of this. And. And Ashley says, I think the very first night of feats, she's like, and you maybe heard this, but she said, you know, people think that Jimmy's running the house. It's really Morgan that's running the house. She's very skeptical of you for a little while there, and. And kind of was, like, not necessarily, like, actively trying to get you out, but very much was like, why is Rachel so in love with Morgan? Why is Zach so, like, all these people are gravitating for Morgan? I think, like, had a healthy skepticism of, like, this is dangerous before eventually kind of coming around, but. But she was, I would say, like, the only person, really, that was, like, looking at you in. In an accurate and skeptical way at that point.
- [49:07]
B
Yeah. I mean, Ashley had great reads in the house, and obviously, like. Like, you know, we've all seen that, at least if you're on the live feeds. I know for me, like, when it came to that, I know that she came to me for quite a few things. I remember we were in the bathroom one time, and she was kind of asking me, like, what to do, because the thing is, I was super close with Vince, and she knew that. So I knew Vince wanted Ashley up because the way Vince worked was like. Like, if he felt good about you, like, once that conversation is done, like, you should trust that conversation. But with her, I guess, repeatedly going back and back and back, he started being like, okay, if you. If I trust you, like, and you keep coming back, you know, like, what's kind of going on here? And so that's why when I would speak to Ashley, I would try to just be like, hey, you know, like, every. Like, everything's cool, girl. Like, you know, if you feel like you need to talk to somebody about it, like, maybe talk to Keanu or someone who's actually, you know, know, spreading the stuff about shower gate, everyone else is kind of, like, trying to, like, let go of it. But the. The one thing I do love, and I. And I think it's, you know, pretty cool that Ashley recognized that, because obviously, it's like, you know, she recognized my game, and I can, you know, admire that, and that's pretty dope. The best part for me about Jimmy looking like the head of the snake of the alliance is because if that alliance was to ever come out, people go for the head of the snake. So. And I said it throughout the season with many people, like, as long as. As me, you know, like, I even told this to Zach and Vince. I was like, as long as the head of snake does not look like one of us, we're gonna be fine. So who cares if the alliance ends up getting exposed? As long as you're not the head of the snake. You're gonna be fine. So, yes.
- [50:36]
A
Speaking of snakes, of course you. So. So this was. This was on the feeds, right? So this was a night. Night. Six into day seven, Jimmy doesn't hug Keanu the next morning because he's heard now that Keanu's pitching him from Vince. And many people, really. Zach and. And Ava, basically everyone in the house, except for, like, you and Rachel and me and Rachel and Keanu had seen you have this conversation. I talked to Keanu about this. That he saw your conversation with Jimmy, which was, like, you trying to, like, reconcile the argument you had over Zay and Keanu.
- [51:19]
B
Yes.
- [51:20]
A
And he believes that you ratted him out and. And calls you out on it. And. And this was another moment where, like, this drama happens. He calls you a snake, and Kelly immediately, like, runs to Vince because she still doesn't want to go on the block at this point, having already volunteered. And. And she goes to Vincent. She's like, vince, Keanu is causing all kinds of drama. He just made Morgan cry. So I think you can, like. I think that. I think you can put him on the block now. And. And this is. You know, I haven't talked to Vince, but, like, my. In my head, it was like, okay, this is maybe an actual reason to. To go with this. Like, it seemed like he really was leaning Kelly, but Jimmy had been pushing really hard. And then when this came up, he was like, okay, I might actually do this. I need to talk to two people. I need to talk to Riley. Because at that point, they were already in the unexpendables. So if you're gonna take out. If you're gonna put up Keanu, he needs to make sure that Riley, who's in a final three with him.
- [52:29]
B
Final three.
- [52:30]
A
Okay with it. And Riley was just like, yeah, screw that guy.
- [52:33]
B
Yeah. Oh, my God. Crazy. I love. Like, I remember when I first found out about the final three that they had. Keanu had told me, which was so funny. But, yeah, to go. To go back to that. I. I remember when that happened. Jimmy had came in. I was chatting with Mickey in the. In the. In the train room, and, you know, Jimmy came in. He goes, keanu just called you a snake. And, like, storms out. And I was, like, freaking out, because obviously, the one thing that Jimmy was really good about was, like, kind of making people paranoid when it came to, like, oh, all it takes is one mess up and your ass is out. And, like, a lot of people were really terrified of that. So it was a good game. Move by Jimmy to kind of do that because it did cause quite a bit of paranoia.
- [53:07]
A
He was very good at using, like, oh, these people are saying, like, oh, you don't want to piss these people off, right?
- [53:13]
B
Yes, he was very good about that, which was also a concern for me, because obviously, when I learned that he started doing that with my name, I'm like, hey, wait a second. Like, we're supposed to be an alliance. I don't care if you do it to other people, but, like, when you do it to me, like, what is happening? But when he did that, I was like, okay. So then I went to Keanu, and that's when he's like, no, you're sus. You're sus. And I was like, wait, I'm so confused. And I remember, like, kind of chuckling to myself because when I first had my actual one on one with Keanu, where he was. Was, like, pitching an alliance and how he brought up how he wanted. Like, he didn't call them, like, the outsiders, but it was, like, something. And he mentioned, like, Adrian, Ava, and, like, Kelly, other people that he wanted to protect. But the way he said it was like, yeah, I just want to. He's like, I'm just, you know, chatting with you to see if you're a good fit. And I'm like, so I'm. I'm. I'm having an interview, a job interview about whether or not I can be in this alliance or not. You already mentioned names, so now I have red flags going up. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I'm experience.
- [54:08]
A
Do you have.
- [54:08]
B
Right. Are you loyal? Do you? And then. But. But the thing was, the. The main thing was like, will you turn your back on Jimmy? And I was like, ah, now I see his target. And so I was like, okay, obviously, I'm in triple threat with Jimmy. So of course I'm like, oh, I don't have a problem turning on Jimmy. Like, that's not a big deal. But I didn't ever tell Jimmy that, because I'm like, okay, I don't need it to even blow up even more than it already is. Is. But the irony was, like, as I leave that meeting, Jimmy comes out, we squash our beef, that we kind of, like, got into an argument, because obviously, up in the hoh room, I kind of shut him down when he was just, keanu, Keanu, Keanu. I was like, hey, like, you keep badgering this. Like, let's get to the point. Like, respectfully. Like, it's kind of like going around in circle Like. Like, let's get to the point, because if we're trying to, like, get done, we need to get it done rather than, like, spending all this time saying all these things. But what I will say, when I did talk to Vince, like, the. I was, like, one of the last people to talk to him. He, like, obviously valued my opinion. He was always like, you're the last person I want to talk to at the end of my decisions just to make sure that my head is on straight. And I remember the first thing I asked him, I was like, the real question is, do you want Keanu up on that block? Yes or no? And he said, no. I said, okay, then there's your answer. Like, there's your answer. And it worked out for me because obviously, I didn't want Keanu up on the block either, despite the snake comment and stuff, because we obviously squashed it outside, to my knowledge at that time. I thought we did. But, yeah, that was just a crazy week because it was like, we had Showergate, we had Zay. We had everyone just trying to be like, you know, this person should go on the block. I mean, even finding out that Kelly volunteered is crazy. Week one volunteering is insane.
- [55:42]
A
Yeah, well, that's. I. I mentioned this already a little bit, but, like, in the preseason, she had been somebody that said, like, oh, I haven't really seen any of the show, and I'm not going to because I don't want to. Like, I want to come in with, like, a fresh perspective. And having, you know, watched the show for 25 years, I was like, oh, that's a red flag.
- [56:01]
B
Yeah, because it's like, you got to know at least some things not to do. Like, you know, you don't want to volunteer yourself up on the block, or you don't want to use a veto on somebody if you're not going to have the votes, or, like, there's certain things that you just don't do because you can literally get evicted for doing it.
- [56:16]
A
So, yeah, like, famously, Dan Geesling went against the grain and did a lot of counterintuitive things that people have tried to replicate and failed. But the reason he was able to do it was it wasn't because he came in with a fresh perspective. It's because he was a master of the craft. He had seen so much of the show that he knew which rules he could break and when. So, yeah, it's. You can't go in just being like, I'm just gonna do whatever. But, yes. So ultimately, Vince talks to Rachel after Riley. And Rachel's like, do not put Keanu on the block. And later, he's like, she yelled at me.
- [56:53]
B
That's. You know what's funny? And I wonder if that came from. Because I remember when I was in the storage room, I walked in on Vince and Jimmy, and Jimmy was like, you need to put up Keanu. And I remember the first thing I thought about was like, oh, my God, I have to tell Rachel. Because we wanted to work with Keanu. I immediately told Rachel, and that's probably why she was like, do not. And I loved her tenacity throughout the season. I loved how she was very like, do not do this, because xyz. I think some people might have thought that she came on too hard, but I think the way I looked at it was like, she wanted to get stuff done similar to me. We had little different, like. Like, angles of doing stuff, but we are quite similar in a sense of, like, if we wanted something done, we were going to be very adamant and give you all the reasons that made sense on doing that.
- [57:30]
A
Yeah. And then. And then he came out and he talked to you after that. And this, like, I remember I was still streaming at this point, and I was like, this is the conversation that matters because you know already, like, the relationship with. With Rachel is like, he was looking for somebody to tell him what to do, and Rachel did. But then. Then the real thing was talking to you, and I still didn't know, like, are you going to change your mind because of the Keanu stuff? And you went to Vince and you were like, no, don't. Don't do Keanu. Zay is. Zay is the person that we should. That we should be targeting. And then the feeds cut for the ceremony at that point, and it was like, okay. And. And later on in the season, I. I made a tweet about, like, how you actually had, like, six HOHs or something because you actually had all of Vince's people. Like, not the first one, though. And then I was like, I don't know.
- [58:29]
B
Unless. Unless. I think it's just like, I had. Vince and I had a really great, like, game relationship, and he really trusted my opinions. He loved the fact that I strategized with him and, like, worked every angle as well. It wasn't just like, okay, Vince, like, this is what we're doing. Thanks. It was like, okay, let's work this angle. That's why the M and Ms. Came in handy. Like. Like, obviously I didn't use the M and Ms. Like, week one, but it was just like, we really strategized about, like, I'm like, Vince, because he was already worried that he wasn't, you know, one of those, like, bro macho guys. You know, I'm like, so you want to keep somebody who is. Whereas, like, you can compete against other people that you can beat, you know? And I was like, and also, if you had a good relationship with Keanu, it doesn't make sense to put him up. And if you have someone who everyone is also mentioning, which was Kelly, she was also another. I mean, I don't know if a lot of people mentioned her, but a lot of people kind of felt a little indifferent about Kelly. I loved Kelly. You mention that they didn't show this the feeds for the first six days. Kelly was actually the first person that I truly connected with, especially on the girls side of things. But she definitely came on very, very hard. And she would, like, you know, she was telling some people, like, oh, you're not gaming. You should probably do that, because me and Morgan are gaming. And I was like, wow, look at that. I think that is.
- [59:41]
A
I don't know.
- [59:41]
B
You know, I mean, I was just like. I was like, oh, my God, that's terrifying. Like, don't tell people that I'm gaming hard, because, like, people are gonna come for me. But Kelly was really sweet because, you know, she just. She was just, I think, just having fun and just kind of winging it, like you said. But that was also something that I was like, that's a little scary for me to closely align with, because someone who's winging it could end up accidentally winging me onto the block. And I don't want to deal with that. You know, I don't want to deal with, like, kind of chaos and comments. And that's kind of what we saw. Week one was just a lot of comments about everything, and I'm like, oof. Like, I don't want to be one of those comments, because even, like, the day three snake thing, I was like, thank God Vince is the hoh. Otherwise, my ass could have been on the block if it was somebody else, if they thought I was a sn fake, like, or somebody untrustworthy, you know?
- [60:21]
A
Yeah, no, it's. It's interesting to hear that because I do remember later in the season, it kind of felt out of nowhere that you started talking about this. Like, that you felt like you really connected to. To Kelly. And we're like, when did that happen?
- [60:34]
B
Oh, it was like, literally the first couple days. First of all, we connected because Keanu snored so loud, we got no sleep for the first three days. So her and I were just up. We were chatting, like, we connected literally, day one. And I was also one of the people that would always, like, check in on her or talk, and I was the only. She told me after the. The vote where if it was. What was that? Week two. No, no, no. The week one, where if. No, no. Week two, when she was going to be up on the block, it was either we two or got. I'm losing my mind. Anyway, there was a time where if Kelly was on the block, I told her I was going to vote her out next to Amy, because I felt like I would not be able to beat her in a mental competition. And she was like, wow, you're the only person that was, like, actually honest, like, thank you, me. And I told her. I was like, it's literally no shade to you. Like, that is actually a compliment. I just know that, like, you are very good at mental competitions, obviously, look at your blockbusters. And, like, the. The mental comps that we did have. She was always one of the front runners in it, and I was like, oh, I got to get you out. Because a mental competition could end up changing the trajectory as well. But, yeah, Kelly and I were cool. Like, I loved her. I thought she was, like, really fun. Loved her adventure stories. But, yeah, it's great. It's. It's interesting to hear that, like, you guys didn't know that and. Because, like, I forgot that, like, they told me, us, you know, day whatever, like, oh, the live feeds are finally on. And I didn't actually consider the fact that you guys really miss a lot of, like, the foundation buildings of so many alliances or connections, you know?
- [61:54]
A
Yeah, it's. It's such a shame they don't have those because they, like. I mean, I obviously already mentioned this, but, like, it's. It's so. We. There's so much when we have gotten that historically, it's like. It's like, how could we possibly have missed this? And then any other, you know, future season, it's like, well, we start on day six, and it's like, right. We just try our best, you know, Like, I'm like a detective trying to figure out the trail of, like, where things are and where they started. So. So of course, Kelly goes on the block. We already talked about the campaign against Zay. Of course, there were a few alliances I'm sure you've heard about. I've mentioned them already. The bond is created by. So basically you know, Vince and Zach, Vince in particular, once Kelly goes on the block, is very much like, oh, my God, I'm so worried that. That, like, now that I've put Kelly on the block, if she leaves, I'll look like an idiot. And I'm sorry. I'm gonna try to. People love this. The. The. The impression. But it's been so long, I. I don't know if I have it in me anymore. But. But he was like, I don't want. I'm very, very worried that Kelly's gonna go, go. And so I am. He started campaigning, like, really heavy for Kelly to stay. And this was. This was obviously a problem for him and Rachel because he was using Rachel as sort of like the. The demon that needed to be slayed. Like, oh, you know, we can't keep Amy in the game because Rachel, she's close to Rachel, and that's a big problem. And so from this is where I was like. Like, you know, putting. Putting Kelly up and then campaigning so hard against her or sorry for her, really, like, put him in. At odds with Rachel, and the way that he campaigned put her at odds with Rachel. And so him and Zach started, like, really doubling down on this idea that, like, we can't let Kelly be voted out. We can't let Zay be voted out. It has to be Amy. And so they. They started, like. Like, branching out, and they formed the bond alliance, which was themselves with. With Lauren and Will and Amy. Or, sorry, not Amy, Ava. And. And then this, unfortunately for them, backfired because, a. Despite just being included in the alliance, Ava was like. They were like, yeah, so now we should vote out. Vote out Amy.
- [64:27]
B
Right?
- [64:27]
A
And Ava was like, I don't think that's a good idea.
- [64:32]
B
Blankly. Yeah. Yeah. Ava was a. Ava was such a character. And I think the one thing I loved about Ava is, like, for the most part, when she knew what she wanted to do, you could not tell her otherwise unless you had legitimate, like, ways to be like, hey, this is what I think. But that's so interesting. I did not realize that they were campaigning so hard, but it makes sense, because I do know that they did not want Zay to go. I knew that they wanted to vote on Amy. So that kind of, like, puts the puzzle pieces together on. On for one, campaigning for Kelly to stay. But more importantly, the reason why Rachel started to not like Vince, because that was one thing I never understood. I was like, okay, one of y' all did something to piss each other off to the point where she's coming after you hard. It was probably Vince. Clearly it was Vince. And it makes sense. I mean, if I was Rachel, I'd be pissed off, too. It's like, wait a second. For one, Amy was her number one. Amy was not a big threat. And I get why Rachel's like, why are we trying to get Amy out when she's not? She literally would tell everyone, even, like, when Amy wasn't around. Like, guys, we really think Amy's a threat here. Like, come on, let's be real. So that's so interesting because, I mean, I was. I felt so confident that week as far as, like, getting Zay out, because I feel like I had really good conversations with people and people were understanding it. I was more so working harder to make sure that Vince and Zach saw the light. They were the hardest ones that week to get them to understand. And it's like I said, I understood that they wanted say to stay, but I was just hoping that Kelly. Because I even told Kelly, I was like, I'm just glad you won because I did not want to vote you out of state. Me with one. Like. But I already had already told Amy that I was going to keep her. And to be fair, Amy versus Kelly, I would have kept Amy regardless because she was the least, like, biggest threat on the block. But now that makes sense why Vince had Rachel coming for him.
- [66:13]
A
Yeah, it was really the story. And. And. And that was the thing too, is that, like, they pushed so hard, and then, like, when they weren't getting traction, like when Ava was saying. And Ava at this point had also made a final two with Lauren. They called themselves the Bond Girl Girls because of the Bond alliance. But. But Vince had already made his final two with Lauren, so she should have been more loyal to Vince, but he wasn't, like, pushing hard enough with those individual relationships where, like, Lauren was like, I'm really torn. But, you know, Ava's really strong. You know, Ava has a really strong opinion in this direction. And Vince is, like, telling me I should be worried about Rachel, but then also saying, but we have to also look at the other side of it. And so when Vince is kind of being a little bit wishy wash about it, and Ava is like, let's firmly go in this direction. Lauren kind of gets pulled. And then, of course, a huge part of it is you guys talking to Lauren and talking about, like, working together with the women and all of that. And. And so it all happens there. They also try this with the Burger Boys.
- [67:18]
B
It was the Banana Bros, because, like, that's like, that's what Jimmy called them. I don't know exactly who's the Burger Boys, But I know we made a joke about the Banana Bros. Oh, I.
- [67:27]
A
Guess I should have asked you this question. Have you watched the episodes at all?
- [67:30]
B
No, I haven't seen anything, like, so I'm gonna be learning a lot today. I was like, burger Bros. I know we had this joke about the Banana Bros because every morning it was like, Zay, Riley, Keanu, like, they ate all the bananas, and they were all, like, the guys that hung out. So we were like, they probably have an alliance together, and it's probably called the Banana Bros. That's what, like, Jimmy made, like, a joke about. And, like, that's what we called them. But I wonder if that was the Burger Bros.
- [67:52]
A
This was a very, for me, a very funny alliance. Vince starting conversation because it was so transparent that basically Vince and Zach pull in Riley and Zay and Will. So it's those five guys.
- [68:08]
B
Okay, okay.
- [68:09]
A
And they're like, let's. Let's form, like, a bro alliance. And basically the entire point of this, because they already thought they had Riley's vote, the entire point of this alliance was to get Will's vote to keep that. And so they're pulling Will in, and they're like, hey, we're gonna make this the Burger Boys or, yeah, the Burger Bo. And they each had, like, a portion of the burger that was dedicated to lettuce or something. Yeah, I don't remember the details.
- [68:36]
B
No way. That's actually iconic. That's hilarious. Like, you're the top bun, you're the tomato, you're the meat. Oh, my God.
- [68:43]
A
Exactly.
- [68:43]
B
That is hilarious. I'll give them, like, 10 out of 10 for, like, cleverness, for sure.
- [68:50]
A
They're like, making this alliance, and they're like, yeah. So, Will, now that we have this alliance, we should probably vote to keep Zay, right? And Will's like, yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. And so this is, I believe, why Will ended up being a vote to keep Zay, despite it not really making any sense for him to do so otherwise.
- [69:09]
B
Yeah, that makes so much sense now. Because I know, like, Mickey, myself, Ashley, and Will kind of had a connection early on. We never really made an alliance, but we were just kind of like, we're going to have each other's backs. Like, let's work together. And I know that after that vote, Mickey and I were kind of like, wait, why would Will? Because, like, Will told us that he was keeping Amy. And so when we found out that. Because any. And I. I appreciated Will for this, and it made me want to work with him or at least consider, like, down the line. If I needed to trust in someone, I could trust in Will because he was honest about voting to keep say. And I was like, okay, like, cool. Like, I get it. Totally fine. Like, I said week one, I really wasn't going to put as much stress on people being like, oh, you voted this person. Because I'm like, it's week one. I don't want to target. But that makes sense. That alliance, everything that all pieces together totally makes sense.
- [69:53]
A
They're reminding me in the chat that Vince was the cheese.
- [69:56]
B
Cheese of the burger, you know, I guess. Like, he's a Green Bay Packer fan, so that kind of fits. That's hilarious. The cheese.
- [70:06]
A
Yes. So. So ultimately, of course, as we've talked about, you guys carry this vote to the end. Kelly pulls out a win and Zay is a victim over.
- [70:19]
B
Yes.
- [70:19]
A
Amy. Massive result. Hugely influential over the course, of course, of the season. And this is immediately obvious when Zach is bawling his eyes out.
- [70:30]
B
I was like, I'm like, Zach, it's been 10 days. Respectfully, you know, but it's okay, because the thing is that the thing that I will say is, like, in that house, you really bond with people. So I honestly was like, I mean, I cried a lot in the season. Like, I cried, like, a lot of evictions. Like, it is sad when people go. And they did have a strong connection. They were working out together, they were eating together. Like, it makes sense. But I also feel like they kind of put the nail in his own coffin with his evictions. Like, like his speech on what not to evict him for because he came directly for Rachel. And I was like, I was like, usually you campaign against who's next to you on the block, not who's off the block and is voting.
- [71:11]
A
Well, you know, remember the. Like, Zach and Vince had basically oriented the entire campaign as anti Rachel instead of anti Amy. Like, take a shot at Amy as a shot at Rachel. And so I. I believe Zay kind of felt like that was the best angle to take because that was their main pitch.
- [71:31]
B
Right. I think if he would have. I mean, I don't think the votes would have changed, but I think if his campaign throughout the week was taking out somebody that was connected to Rachel, instead of making it solely about Rachel, like, kind of making it about, like, almost like the branches that were connected to her, it could have worked, especially with, like, you know, other People who would have been more of like, oh, I'll vote that way. Because we had a lot of people who were just like, they didn't want to upset people, so they're like, oh, I'll vote whatever way. I think that would have been. Like, that's what I would have done. If I was there. I would have been much more adamant about, like, look, Amy may not be a threat, but she's a threat. If you combine her with Rachel, you also see Ashley close by. That's three of them. Like, I would have totally Lind. Leaned into the fact that they were outside of Zach, Vince, and I. The other obvious trio in the house.
- [72:14]
A
Yeah. And I think the. The problem is that, like, it was a potentially effective campaign, but not when it's so obvious, because if. If. If everyone knows if they has made it clear and gotten into a big fight with Rachel in front of everyone.
- [72:29]
B
That, oh, you know, I was doing laundry outside, and.
- [72:34]
A
Okay, you got to watch the clips of that if you have.
- [72:36]
B
Yes, I need to. Because I was outside. What's it called? Called do it like laundry. I think Vince and I were doing laundry or something. And Riley opens it. He goes. He, like, does his little, like, evil laugh, and he's like, rachel and say are in a fight. And I'm like, what? I'm. How am I missing the first fight of the season? Like, this is. I missed all the fights of the season, actually. But, yeah, I miss that. And I was like, the fact that I had to miss Rachel telling him that he needs a mommy. I'm so upset. I wanted to be there to hear that.
- [73:04]
A
Oh, man. It was a. It was a very good one. I'm trying to pull up some of my notes from the. Because I don't have the. The clip of it ready to go, but. But there was a really funny part of it when, like, he was. He was, like, telling her that she wasn't gonna. He's. He's like, I, I. I know that if. If. If we. You. If you. If. If. If you. If you stay on the game and. And you were on the block, you weren't gonna put up game on. Like, may. May the best player win. If you want to throw smoke, I'm here for it. Like, he was really. It was. It was very. Because the. The thing we love about Rachel is that she gets into fights, but she's, like, not the best at them. And they also was not very good. And so it was a very entertaining back and forth.
- [73:59]
B
I can't. I'm actually, like, so correct that I missed that, because I remember everyone was talking about. Everyone was like, they just got into a fight, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, a fight already. Like, dang it. Of course I miss it. And it's with Rachel. I wanted to see her, like, in action because, you know, obviously, like you said, like, she was very, like, you know, a big personality on her season. I'm like, this is the one way to see the big personality is, like, in a fight.
- [74:21]
A
Oh, okay. This is. This is the. This is my favorite quote from Zay, because this is, like, at the end of his. All right. Because. Because guess what? As long as I'm in this house, there's no chance you win twice in a row or not. Not in a row, because there's. There's no way you win two. Two seasons of Big Brother.
- [74:41]
B
Jose.
- [74:42]
A
And then she says, you want to. You want to act like a child and try to come for me. I hope you hope you can back up what you're doing. Also, if you're gonna come for me, wait till I'm in a gown.
- [74:51]
B
Oh, I loved that when. When she was basically telling him, like, as long, like. Like, I want to get in arguments when I'm, like, all basically dolled up. I loved the. That Rachel was iconic for always wanting to be in a gown.
- [75:02]
A
So, anyway, I think when you. When you make it this obvious that you're anti Rachel, that makes it obvious to anybody that's voting for you to stay that a vote for Zay to stay is a shot against Rachel, and that only works if Rachel has no real support. And so it's an argument that can work, but not when it's so obvious. Not when people feel scared to actually cast a vote because it's too obvious. Obvious. But, yeah, didn't quite work. We go into week two, and Jimmy wins the hoh.
- [75:35]
B
Yes. Which I thought was so funny because the first comment he ever said was, oh, Rachel, Riley's here. Like, whoever is the second HOH is going to have a real easy nomination. And it's just hilarious because he was, in fact, the second hoh, So I thought that was kind of funny, and.
- [75:51]
A
He should have had an easy week. And to be fair to him, and I'm. I always mention this, he does do the right thing initially, which is just the very obvious nominations of Keanu, Kelly and Adrian, who had just not really participated in the voting process last time by just being like, sorry, this is where I'm at. And therefore had no, like, into any of the Actual, like, social, strategic landscape. And so it was a very clean, easy nominations. If any one of them had won a veto, it still would have been pretty easy from there, but unfortunately for him. Yeah.
- [76:36]
B
I thought his initial noms were great, too, especially because he obviously got to take his shot at Keanu. If I was him and someone was targeting me, I would have loved to do that. Kelly was already on the block before, and then by association, everyone knew Adrian was kind of close to them, so it made sense. Sense. That double power thing was crazy. I mean, when we saw Casey come out, I'm like, of course Casey is the person who's going to compete. She's going to win this because it's Casey. Hello. Did you guys not watch her season? She had five vetoes, I believe, as well. She also had three in a row. Like, she was just a comp beast and a great social player. She was just incredible. So when I saw that, I was like, okay, Keanu is probably going to win this veto today. And by then, I also had discourse with Keanu because I still kept hearing. Hearing my name and like, oh, Morgan can't be trusted. And I was like, wait, I thought we squashed this, Keanu. Like, I don't. I didn't understand where that was coming from, which we then later learned it was actually from Jimmy, at least to my knowledge. It was. Unless you have other notes. But I know, like, part of it was from Jimmy. But I do agree with you. The noms were great. And, like, the two video thing was.
- [77:37]
A
Yes. And you. You didn't. You didn't play in this video, right? Yeah. Because it would have been very fun to see you, especially, like, knowing what you know now. So you compete against Casey would have been great.
- [77:47]
B
I thought about that. I was like, oh, my God. This would have been a veto I would have loved to compete in. But I was really glad I didn't because I didn't want to show people that early my athletic capabilities.
- [77:58]
A
Well, that was the thing is, like, Adrian almost beat Casey, so it was, like, even more reason to try to take him out later on.
- [78:05]
B
Yes. And he also. In the first competition of saving Julie, he was. He also finished the puzzle, so that's amazing.
- [78:12]
A
He did better than Zach.
- [78:13]
B
Yeah. Yes. That's what I heard. Like, I had heard that from other people because I was like, oh, how did your guys's competition go? Because, like, I was acting like, oh, like, we did this, but I'm really trying to get as much information, like, who did really well, whatever. And when they said that Adrian technically finished it first. Zach just got the right door. I was like, okay, Adrian is one good at mental. He almost beat Casey. That's physical. He's got to go. Like, at some point, he's got to go. He's also kind of like a. A really quiet guy. And he was very adamant about being an honest player, which I obviously admired, but I was like, hated liars. Yeah, he. He did hate liars. And he also was just, like. He omitted a lot, which I found to be very dangerous in a sense, of, like, my game. I'm like, I want to work with people who are not afraid to tell me stuff. You're kind of breadcrumbing me right now. Especially, like, during, like, you know, his campaign of, like, why he should get a vote. And I just was like, yeah, this isn't gonna work.
- [79:03]
A
Yeah, yeah, he. I think he had, like. Like, there were, like, two rows of doors in that competition, and he had checked, like, every lower door before Zach had even finished the puzzle yet. And the only reason Zach beat him is because Zach was like, oh, well, Adrian's already checked more than half the doors. I'll just check the ones he hasn't checked yet. And so he was able to. To get it. Get the win by just. And it was a very important. Well, could have been a very important win for Zach if he had.
- [79:30]
B
Could have been a very important power. Oh, man. Yeah. I think. Think, especially, like, on our competition that we had, ours was just kind of like a guessing factor, which I don't know if Jimmy actually guessed. He said he guessed. I'm convinced that he didn't, because that kind of competition with all the relics that we had, there's just no way that you guess and just get it right. There were so many details. But moreover, on Adrian, he was also selected to be in that first part one hoh. Like, the very first one. And he was very close to beating Vince. So I'm like, dude, this guy is going to be a competitor. We do not align. He is, like, he was one person that if I were to have one hoh at that time, he was going to be on my block, which I know the whole my block year block. That was a huge thing, too. I didn't realize.
- [80:16]
A
Well, yes. Well, this is actually. I was talking to somebody in San Francisco about this, a fan that was like. I told her, she's way smarter than me because she was saying words I didn't know. She's a linguistic forensic something, and she's, like, writing a paper about, like, language in Big Brother. And it is always so fascinating to me the lingo that kind of, like, develops over the course of a season and how people will sort of pick up on specific phrases or words. And. And in your case, like, I. I keep. I don't mean to, like, blow smoke here, but, like, I keep reiterating this. Like, you were really the power center of the house for much of the season. Reason in terms of, like, the social and strategic structure of it. And. And I think that expressed itself also in the ways that, like, other people started using M&Ms. And talking about my block and your block. And, like, you really were, like, a trendsetter in that way. Like, a lot of people adapted to the ways that you spoke and behaved in the house.
- [81:29]
B
Yeah. I remember the first time I found out that Mickey was using the M and Ms. With other people, I crashed out in that doctor. Oh, my God, I was so pissed because that was essentially only supposed to be for her. And I. Now, I obviously did it with Zach and Vince, but it was only for to see whose votes would go where, not the actual strategy of, like, who would be nominated, who they would target. So when I caught her in Catherine, I was like, oh, okay, I see what we're doing here. But I played it cool and cute because I'm like, I'm not going to let her think that I. I'm clocking a lot of things because, like I said, like, I studied the players. There were certain things that I was paying attention to and noticed and was just kind of like, keeping in the back of my head for when I needed to use it. Kind of like a. Like a little arsenal. Like, I was just kind of stacking up on my ammo. I was stacking up on the things that I needed to. Where. When I needed to start, you know, shooting and, you know, being more precise on things, I was ready for that. And that was actually the benefit that I had working so close with a lot of people in the house, like Mickey, Jim, me, Zach, Vince, like, early on, like, I was able to kind of see just how they were moving as players and, like, who they were connecting to and, like, how they were, like, just, like, the dynamics that were changing. It was really fascinating, honestly.
- [82:37]
A
The other thing just about Adrian that was very funny for us is that prior to the season, Adrian's whole thing was that he had built his own version of the wall of kind comp, like, in his backyard or whatever, and been practicing it. And so the big thing in the preseason was Adrian versus Morgan, who also Will only ever talk about the wall. Who will win the wall? And then Adrian wasn't even there, and.
- [83:09]
B
I was a have not. Because I, like, I literally promise you I will if I ever go back on Big brother. I'm never speaking about wall comp ever again. I. Those words will never leave my mouth. It's literally, I was so excited about Walcom because, like, growing up, that was like, I saw the very first ever Walcom, you know, and so obviously it was much different because they use almost like a ballerina, like, bar. But I just. That was one of my all time favorite, like, dream competitions. I would love to win that. All the things. But our season, actually, it was the first time that you could hold above. Most every other season didn't have the option. So that's kind of what threw me off because I'm like, wait, if everyone. Someone can do. Like, I was just like. I was like, well, it works like this in the past. I'm gonna keep it that way. But Adrian actually did tell me that on finale night, and he was like, hey, just so you know, like, I actually built this wall and I couldn't wait to go against you because you were always talking about the wall comp. And I just started laughing. I was like, dude, that's incredible. And like, I was like, well, I'm pretty sure, like, America's laughing at me because I literally was the third to fall and I slipped, too. But regardless, doesn't matter whether I slipped or not. It's the fact that I fell. I don't think I would have even been able to laugh last to top five just because of, like, my back problems and stuff. Because, like, I even had, like, a little bit of back problems. And I even heard Keanu and other people like, oh, my back. I was like, oh, damn, I was gonna be cooked regardless. So I learned very quickly on that to, like, just not be like, oh, I'm. You're gonna have to peel me off that wall. And like, girl, you're gonna peel your way onto the freaking have not. Like, how about that? Like that.
- [84:30]
A
I was so sad that they didn't make a more of a meal of it in the episode because I felt like it could have been, like, such a funny edit to, like, have a montage of you talking about wall comp and then and even do one of their things where they, like, cut you off mid sentence where you're like, so I'm going to be crushing this wall. But they didn't do it.
- [84:51]
B
I was like. I was like. I was like, guys, did I get an Angela edit? Because Angela had that edit. She's like, you know, I'm a mom. You're going to have to da, da, da. And then just, you know, so I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to get the edit. And it's going to be even more embarrassing because I was, like, so excited. I was an athlete before. Like, I'm going to just be a laughingstock to the wall comp in that. I just. Yeah, that's so funny. Good old W comp.
- [85:17]
A
All right, well, back to. Back to Jimmy's week. Of course, the main thing here is that Keanu and Kelly are able to save themselves. And this is where Jimmy really makes a big mistake because there's a lot of tension now. You and Rachel and. And Mickey and Ashley, like, all of you are. Are hoping that he puts up like Riley or Catherine. One of them should go up. Maybe both of them should go up. Like, something along those lines. Meanwhile, Catherine and Lauren are spending a bunch of time up in the HOH with Jimmy. He feels like he can play both sides and he can ride some kind of middle. And so he doesn't want to piss them off. He doesn't want to ruin the relationship he has with them. And so in his mind. Mind, he's already taken a big shot. He doesn't want to go for another one. He wants to play it safe, which is the death knell of, like, every player this season. And he decides Will and Amy are his two options. Now, this is partly the Will nomination made some sense because he wasn't aligned with Will. He didn't have a relationship with Will. And this is the thing with Keanu. So. So Keanu, after that first week, he has the conversation with you. He believes you that you did. You didn't read him out. Instead, he starts blaming Rachel because, of course, it. If not you, it must be Rachel after the veto ceremony. And then also he. He. So before the veto ceremony, he had talked to Vince about, like, because basically, sorry, I keep forgetting that you maybe don't have all the context here, but yes, so. So Jimmy starts trying to target Keanu in week one. Rachel wants to work with Keanu. So Rachel warns Keanu, hey, watch out. People are saying your name. Keanu is concerned but doesn't quite believe Rachel. Instead, he goes to Vince, who he trusts because he's in a. He's in the unexpendables. And Vince rats out Jimmy and says, it's all. It's not me. I'm not considering putting you up. It's Jimmy because he doesn't want to get in trouble. He thinks that Keanu's blaming him. So then Keanu knows it's Jimmy, and then they start their whole thing. Then the veto ceremony happens where Jimmy calls out Keanu. Right afterward, Keanu goes back up to Vince because he's like. Now he's like, are you sure it was Jimmy like this? That this feels weird? Like, are you? And at this point, Vince is like, oh, I'm gonna get in trouble for this, and goes, actually, I, I, I, I might have forgotten. I'm not sure. I might have misspoke. And so backtracks on throwing Jimmy under the bus. So then Keanu goes back to Jimmy and he's like, hey, I think this might have been a misunderstanding. And Jimmy's like, yes, it was a misunderstanding. Sure, yeah.
- [88:09]
B
Yes, that's exactly what it is. Of course.
- [88:11]
A
Exactly. So now Keanu feels like he has some kind of, like, secret connection to Jimmy, that everyone else will think they're against each other, except he then goes around saying it's a misunderstanding. And so, so this is the foundation of, like, the Jimmy Keanu relationship. He thinks he has this kind of, like, under the radar connection to Jimmy that doesn't really exist. And Jimmy is just basically. Yes. Anding, like, just not right.
- [88:40]
B
Of course.
- [88:42]
A
And when Jimmy wins hoh, he obviously puts Keanu up. He's like, yeah, sorry, I have to. And then when Keanu wins the his win or when Casey wins the v veto, Jimmy, of course, has to pretend again. Like, I'm so happy that this happened. Keanu. And the Will nomination stems from his. He, he felt like he had already wanted to dominate. Well, but he has this conversation with Keanu where Kiana really wanted Will on the block as well for a whole host of very silly reasons. He thought Will was lying about his vote because really Riley was lying about his vote. And he, he blamed that on Will because he believed Riley, and so he wanted Riley up. And so, so Jimmy was like, pretending to be convinced by Keanu to put Will on the block so that Keanu would feel like he had influence over Jimmy. So that was kind of like a win win scenario for Will was a perfectly fine third replacement nominee if he didn't want to do both Riley and Catherine. But then Amy was the real problem here.
- [89:45]
B
Right? That didn't make any sense.
- [89:48]
A
It just didn't make any sense in his mind. I think it did because he, Amy had said his name the week before and they had a little bit of drama. And he also, I think one, like, was swayed a little bit by that idea of, like, let's weaken Rachel to some degree. But you and. And Rachel and Mickey just kept, you can't do this. You can't be doing this. And he would not listen to you. And. And as we established from the week before, that means there's a problem. And you recognize that.
- [90:20]
B
Yeah, that was something that I. Week two was really tough for the triple threat because Mickey and I kind of clocked how Jimmy was spending a lot of time with Catherine and Lauren and kind of going around and kind of being like this, hey, guys, I'm hoh. Like, who wants to talk to me? Like, I'm, you know, let's do this. And it's like, well, we're your. To my knowledge, like, we're your final three. So if anything, it's like, we should talk and be like, what can we do as a tree video? Who can we nominate to make sure that we make it further?
- [90:45]
A
What.
- [90:46]
B
What, like, relationships do we need to build? Like, where do we need to kind of, like, clear things up or whatever? And so that was hard because he didn't speak to us really until after everything was done. Because I remember going up there and all he told me was like, yeah, you're not gonna like, what I'm doing. This is what I'm doing. And I was like. So then in my head, I was like, okay, I'm not gonna fight back because this is how Jimmy wants to play. But I'm immediately noticing that, like, he does not care about my opinion or, like, want to know about it. So, like, as an alliance member, that's gonna be really tough moving forward because it's go be very much like, this is what I'm doing. And, like, I don't really care. Which, to be fair, everyone should play their own personal game. But I still felt like week two is too early to kind of be. How about, no, this is what I'm doing. Especially when it's players like Amy who really weren't going to be a big threat. And we had someone like Riley who all of us in the heavy hitters were like, he said he doesn't want to play this game. He's saying he's on vacation. Like, he doesn't want to meet with us. Why are we keeping somebody in the house that doesn't want to play the game? And that's something that Jimmy was even very, like, open arms about. So that's why I was confused why he didn't want to put up Riley, Because I'm like, wait, you even said that you were disappointed in the way that he's playing this game. So you have people that are going to back you on that. Where. Why did it change? You know, that was, like, my biggest question.
- [91:56]
A
And I will always advocate, like, you shouldn't play for the team. You should play for yourself. That, you know, obviously there's. There's an element of that, that you have to, like, be a team player to some degree. You can't just completely go off on your own. I. I talk about Memphis a lot in. In the star season. Not that he played a great game by any means, but, like, in the early weeks, he made a very selfish move, and the alliance was so frustrated, and then they got over it because they kind of had to, because they just kept winning. But. But the difference is that he made a selfish move that actually benefited him, and Jimmy was making a selfish, selfish move that didn't benefit him by putting Amy on the block. He was. He was taking away his own numbers by taking Amy. Me out. And so that was. And then. And the thing that got me is that, like, after it happened and you guys were mad, he was like, well, why didn't you say anything?
- [92:51]
B
Oh, my God. I know. And I had literally pulled him just before the Renam. I had told him. I was like, hey. And this was the only time I ever actually threw someone's name under the bus and suggested them. And I suggested Riley. I was like, look, I spoke to a lot of people. We're down to support you in Riley. Like, so if you're down for it, just know you have people who are going to support you and, like, you're going to have successful hoh. And I was like. But then I was like, but at the end of the day, do what you want to do. Because I usually said that to make it to seem like I wasn't trying to tell people what to do. At the end of the day, whatever you want to do is what you're going to do. But I tried my best because that was the only thing that I was like, Dan, like, you spend all this time talking to other people and, like, kind of making a move that doesn't make sense for not only the triple threat, but, like, our side of the house. I don't think we. Initially, I don't think there was a legit split house immediately. I think there was pockets. But as far as, like, the numbers we had, that was definitely, like, not a good move for, like, our side of things.
- [93:46]
A
Yeah. And. And from my perspective, this is the true, like, origin of the tension between you and Mickey and Lauren and Catherine. It really stemmed from this week. And there were, there were seeds of it before maybe, but, like, it really culminated here because you were pushing for, for, you know, Riley and Catherine to go up and, and Jimmy was not doing a good job of damage control there. He was really fanning the flames. He was, Mickey was like, coming in and, like, trying to talk to. You were coming and trying to talk to him, but they were there the whole time. And then he would, like, not, like, have like, private conversation. They'd be like, should we leave? And, like, the tension was obvious for them, them. And so they started to feel. And then they started to, like, Catherine started to ask Jimmy, like, what, like, what's Mickey saying? And Jimmy at one point did throw Mickey under the bus. He said that she, you know, she's pitching you a little bit. And, and this is, I, I said this because obviously I, I, I think Mickey's HOH was, was quite disastrous for her game. But the, but the main thing, the biggest, biggest I, in my view, the biggest thing that she had genuine grievance for is, is this, is that he did throw her under the bus this week. Now from this point forward, he is team Mickey and Morgan. Like, he does. He is, very much so. But he really screwed this up. He really thought he had something with, with Catherine and Lauren. And then the following week, I think he realized he didn't and he went all in on Triple threat again. But, like, he really screwed this up and it really caused a lot of tension. And Lauren and Catherine were up in the HOH from talking. Like, you know what? I don't think we can work with that side. And it was because of this power struggle between, for Jimmy's nomination. I think that really started that whole thing and never, it never really went away.
- [95:47]
B
Yeah. So what Mickey and I ended up learning was that Jimmy was like, like you said, there was little seeds before he had came up to us. It was actually me, Mickey and Ashley up in the blue couch. And he came up and he's like, yeah, like, I was talking to Catherine, Lauren, and like, they don't really, like, he was like, he was like, they really don't like you. They definitely don't like you. And like, they're unsure about you, like, point to me. And I was just like, well, that's not comforting. And especially if they don't like girls that I'm, like, enjoying being around, because even then, like, I feel like Ashley and I actually started, like, really kind of bonding, like, week four, the week of, like, Zach and Vince being on the blog. But at that time, I was still cool with Ashley. I had no problem with her. So I was like, oh, these girls are mentioning that they don't like us. That's so weird. He's like, I haven't done anything, you know, and then he was telling them the same thing, like, these girls don't like you. So he was kind of already creating, like, a separation, which, if I had to guess, it was just to bring us closer to Jimmy and then, like, them closer to Jimmy. So, like, I understand, like, the potential move of that. I thought it was just way too early to do something like that because obviously we saw it backfired. So I don't think the initial thought was incorrect. I just think, like, you said, like, he didn't damage control well enough, actually just enjoyed flight, like, fanning the flames and someone like me. I was going to go around trying to figure out, like, who was talking about me and, like, what is actually being said because, like, what are we doing? I. Because I know I was not a messy player. I actually didn't even suggest Catherine. Riley was the main person because he was so adamant about Amy. So I was like, okay, like, let's at least just get Riley.
- [97:11]
A
Like, because that was the slam dunk option. Nobody would have been upset other than Keanu and Catherine. And that is just not a problem that was such a good, easily easy solution. But, uh, you go ahead.
- [97:27]
B
Oh, I was gonna say, the only other thing that I will add as well is, like, when I was up in the HOH room at 1 point with Catherine, him and Lauren, they were really talking negatively about Amy, but more. More so even Ashley. And that was when I was like, okay, just like you said, I don't know where Jimmy's alliance is at this point, like, where his allegiance is. Because first year, like, you know, I'm in a room where you guys are openly talking about, you know, Amy crying too much and how she just needs to go. And then Ashley being annoying and, like, why is she in this house? And that's where, like, obviously there's a clip where I go to Catherine and I mean, like, what's wrong with Ashley being here? Because, like, I did not understand how even Ashley's name got brought up. I was like, okay, cool, shower gate. That's already over. For my knowledge, it's squashed. So then I was like, okay, like, he's either getting way too much information from them or being Too influenced. And that's when I kind of bring it to Mickey, being like, I don't know where Jimmy lies and he's not meeting with us. Like, this is concerning. He's supposed to be with us. I truly don't know what's going on. On at all.
- [98:25]
A
Yeah, I mean, and the Jimmy thing, I think we see this with Vince later on as well, that, like, players this season often tried to, like, separate or not even tried to in some cases. But, like, Like, Jimmy should have been bringing you together, I think, more than putting you apart. And I'm sure we'll talk plenty about that with. With Vince and you and Lauren. But, um. But, like, you know, people think, like, oh, if I'm everyone's number one, I. I don't want them to get along. But the problem is that if your allies are targeting each other, you're going to lose allies. Exactly. That's not good. And so that causes problems. The Ashley thing starts this week. You mentioned that it's primarily because she started talking about how she saw. Again, she was seeing you as being in this really powerful position. She saw Vince was all of a sudden, like, in a. In a. Seemingly in a very powerful position and that Zach was in with tight with you guys and that you were staying up very late talking. And she was like, okay, this is dangerous. Like, they are clearly the front runners to win. And she was trying to, like, feel people out to see where their heads were at. She. She actually does make some progress with Mickey, getting Mickey a little paranoid of know, you. You and Zach and Vince. But. But she also. And she talks to Adrian about it. She talks to Ava about it, obviously. She talks to Rachel about it. She makes a mistake when she talks to Kelly a little bit about it because Kelly runs it right to Vince, who, because she still at this point thinks that she's like, Vince's number one. And. And Vince, like, crashes out about. He goes to Zach and they. They rant and rave about how dare she. Zach says, I'm about to make her life a l. All of that. And they think that they can use this information to turn you against Ashley, because Ashley's talking about you. Like, we can now finally get Morgan to kind of like, get away from that side and come more to us by telling her about this Ashley stuff. And you were, like, a little frustrated by it to some degree. But, like, you were like, you again, you didn't really wait favor from, like. Well, that's. It's annoying, but, like, we have. We have a mission here, right we can't let ourselves be swayed from the objective, right?
- [100:55]
B
Because I think at the end of the day, like, you know, you're playing a game where people are gonna lie, they're gonna manipulate, they're gonna try to get you to do what they want you to do. And I already knew how I felt about, like, Mickey, Rachel, and I knew that even Will and even Ashley was on that side of things. I'm like, if I choose to, like, pick this fight or make this a big deal, I'm gonna start losing allies for. And I'm like, it's not worth it, because the people that. At least so far, because we were on the opposite side of the vote for a couple times with Zach and Ben. So I'm like, what? So I'm just supposed to go over to you guys, be like, yeah, screw Ashley. And then now I have no allies, and I'm in a worse position. Like, that's not happening. So I started figuring out how I can gain more. More information and figure out, like, what is this discourse between Ashley and I, and, like, how can I meet up with her and talk to her? And it ended up coming from Zach. Like, he was telling me one thing about Ashley, telling her about me, and it was just kind of like this back and forth. Even Mickey was part of that. And that's when we see. I don't know what if it showed it on the fee or on the. On the show, but that's when I. Like, when Ashley and I are talking in the backyard, and I was like, I. I basically was mentioning, like, hey, I'm hearing some things. Obviously the answer was going to be Zach, but I was not going to mention his name. And so that's when she's like, okay, I think we really need to talk, because I'm hearing this. And I was like, I haven't said that. So then we obviously learned that we had people close to us trying to pin us against each other. And that's when I took Ashley and Zach in the room, and I was like, okay, like, now it's time to be adults. Let's talk about this actual beef, because this is ridiculous. Like, why are we. It's too early in the game to, like, be at least. And that was just not a good move for me. Like, I wanted to be cool with Ashley because she. She was close with Rachel. It was just. It made sense.
- [102:37]
A
And. And this. You're talking about the. This was, like, week.
- [102:42]
B
This was week four. But if we're talking week two when they started feeling some type of way about Ashley.
- [102:48]
A
It. I. Yeah, it all kind of like this was. I think this because like the shower gate thing was one thing. And then I think it was like people. And by people I mean mostly like Zach and Vince were like waiting for, for another kind of concrete reason because Ashley kind of climbed out from under shower gate. But. And I think that was frustrating. And it was like, well, can we find another thing? And so it was like, here's a concrete reason why people should not be like, Ashley shouldn't have power in this game. And. And then that. And so. And it, it was kind of working for a little while. And it took a while for, you know, the three of you to kind of clear some things up. Of course you eventually do, but this was kind of the start of it, or at least the reignition of it here.
- [103:36]
B
I can't remember exactly when it was, but I remember there was a period of time I wanted. I don't know if it was week four, it could have been week three. But I remember Ashley. I was gonna say Ashley was in the shower and the boys were in the wine room. And I was going back and forth, kind of like telling Ashley. I'm like, hey, like. Because I was, I was talking to the guys, I was like, so how do we feel about Ashley? I really feel like, feel like, you know, a lot of this is misunderstanding. I'm just kind of like trying to get them to look at Ashley in a non threatening way. Because to me she was not a big threat at that time. Like, yes, she was connected to Rachel, but like we still had, you know, Adrian in the house. Keanu, Kelly, like bigger people that were going to probably be a little bit more like annoying to work with as. Not like annoying as like them as people, but like, you know, someone like Kelly who is great at, you know, mental competitions. Keanu clearly, you know, was physical threat. Like Adrian was attached. So just kind of things like that. But I remember telling the guys, like, look, I don't think we should look at Ashley this way. Like, I'm. I'm almost positive she wants you guys to be like at the jury phase. And they're like, really? So then I go to Ashley in the shower. I was like, yeah. Like the guys, like, they feel like I just was literally going back and forth, basically telling both of them what I wanted them to believe to the.
- [104:44]
A
Opposite of what Jimmy was doing, which is trying to get your allies to not target each other. Yeah.
- [104:49]
B
Yes. And then that's why when I went and you told. Talked with, with Zach and Ashley, we were able to, like, mend things to the point where Ashley was like, oh, well, let's bring more people. Let's make an alliance. And that's when I was like, oh, let's not get, like, too crazy just yet, because if we start, like, bringing people in, it could end up imploding. Like, let's just kind of keep this a thing for now. But, like, that was something that I noticed immediately. I was like, just like I did with Mickey. Brought Mickey into the melting pot. Like, if. If I can get my. My. My allies to get along and not go against each other, that's going to help me move forward.
- [105:17]
A
Forward in the game. Yeah. So. So what was happening in week two was that because of Jimmy not listening to you guys, you were thinking about sort of, like, redoing the alliance without Jimmy, and you were floating the idea of Ashley as somebody to include in the alliance. And Zach and Vince were, like, very against this.
- [105:35]
B
Well, it was more like as an extension. You know what I mean? Like, that was like, they were like.
- [105:40]
A
We don't want her involved at all. And so that. This. They were trying to use this as a way to sort of, like, keep her out of it.
- [105:45]
B
Exactly. Because they. They wanted Lauren as an extension. So I was like, okay, if you guys both want Lauren as an extension, then I want Ashley as an extension. And they were just like. And I'm like, well, I mean, like, this is. Are we not working together? Like, this is about numbers right now. Like, I think whatever you guys are, you know, dealing with Ashley, it's like, a bigger issue for y'. All when it's like, I. Because I think a lot of people really did underestimate Ashley. I feel like I was one of the only people outside of, like, Rachel who really saw Ashley for, like, the game player that she was. And so that was always, like, frustrating for me when I would see people, like, talking about her or, like, trying to be like, oh, Ashley this. And I'm like, well, I was like, just because she's not doing what you guys would typically think a Big Brother player would do as far as, like, you know, maybe being more forefront about, like, game stuff. Like, she's. She's. She's here. Like, she's like, she. She should be here. You know what I mean? And I had a good feeling about her. So that's why I tried my best to get them to not look at her in a nature negative perspective to get her out, because I needed her in the game.
- [106:39]
A
Yeah. And so the rest of this week is. Is relatively straightforward because it's. It's just such a losing battle to keep Amy. You know, you were able to carry the vote last time because you did have people like, like Catherine and Lauren on your side and Ava, but against Will, you don't have Ava. You've already lost Lauren and Catherine. And so now the votes are just not even close to the there. And so there's not much you can do to keep Amy around, which it is a loss. But, like, you know, in terms of people who are going to win competitions, like, if they were going to take a shot, Amy was probably the worst person to have taken out for them. But it was the one they could get with Jimmy, so it was still a win for them. One of the very few that they ended up having.
- [107:28]
B
Yeah. And I will say, like, I was more than happy to keep Will that week. Like, that was one thing where I was like, if it's Will and Amy, like, I'm not, not going to going against Will. I found more value in Will. We had more, like, conversations, and I just enjoyed him as a person, for one, and I felt like he was very knowledgeable and it's always really good, in my opinion. Like, when I was going to the house, I wanted to also align myself with people who are older because they have, like, they're more wise and they can see things. Especially, you know, from his perspective. He's. He always used to say that he feels like he was at like, like the cookout or like something where he's watching all the kids play. So he's seeing a lot more things than I'm seeing seeing. And so I'm like, if I can have someone who feels, like, confident in me and trusts me or at least is aligned, I'm gonna. I'm willing to keep that versus someone like Amy, who I never really had those, like, as deep of game conversations with her. Like, the last conversation I had was just like, hey, like, vote me to stay because, like, I'm not gonna go against the girls. And while that is a very compelling argument, because I am, in fact, a girl, it's like, well, at what point is that gonna change? Or, like, what values can you bring to me as a player other than like, oh, I won't put you up. It's like, well, what if you don't to want win, then, like, what are you bringing? Because it's like, that's where you need people who are going to campaign for you or like, stuff like that.
- [108:38]
A
Yeah. And I think last thing on this week is that at this point, we were definitely looking at you and Mickey as, like, it was. It was, I think, giving a little bit of, like, Chelsea and Brooklyn, like a sort of, like, powerhouse duo that was connected in many ways. Ways. And. And. And this was the. The first sign here, just a tiny bit. We were like, what is. What is Mickey doing? Because she was getting really close to Adrian, and. And as I mentioned, Ashley had been trying to get in Mickey's ear to try to pull her closer to, like, her side of things that she'd have a little more of an in. And so I think Mickey was feeling a little bit nervous about Zach and Vince and you. And so in her mind, that meant, what if I could maybe, like, snipe Zach or something? And so she started talking to Adrian about, like, hey, I'm. I'm worried about Zach. I think that, like, maybe we should, like, he's got $10,000 already. And I, to this day, don't know why she thought Adrian was, like, gonna keep that information to himself, because, of course, he ran it right back to Zach, which eventually causes you some problems, but it doesn't end up being a big thing. But for us, it. First sign that, like, Mickey's judgment there was a little off. But we were, like, really well, though, so. It'll be fine.
- [110:04]
B
Yeah, Mickey was really great. I was really, really happy because, like, obviously, I went to her, and I was like, hey, I don't know if Jimmy's proposed a final two, but, like, she's the only person that I actually proposed a final two to. And so I was literally going to make sure that her and I sat in those final two chairs, no matter what it took. But when I was getting wind of, like, you know, just how she was moving, I was just really confused because I'm like, wait, like, we're supposed to be working together. She was the one person that I told literally everything to. Like, Vince didn't know everything at the time, because obviously, Mickey was my number one. I was giving Vince as much information as I could that wouldn't harm, like, our, you know, bond in the house. But Mickey knew everything. I mean, like, she knew about my relationship, like, with Zach and Vince, like, on that. That trio. Like, she knew. She was the only person that knew, because I'm like, I want her to know that I'm taking this to the final. So if I give her valuable information, she's going to take that close, which I think is, in turn, why she shared the power with me. Like, so we were really Working together. But, yeah, I think that week was interesting. Her kind of feeling doubt. Because, I mean, we knew come week two that everyone had us as the open trio. Like, we all knew that, like, me, Vincent, Zach were, like, laughing about it one night, being like, well, they already know, so we might as well just keep doing it, because who cares? We really didn't care. I didn't care. I was one of those people where I'm like, look, if people want to play, then let's play. Like, if they see us as a trio, they see us as a trio. Like, no harm, no foul. Like, I was like, to be fair, guys, we're in the wine room, which is right next to the bathroom. We're not keeping this a secret. Like, we're not trying to hide this. So we can't really get upset if people find out, because we're basically sitting there with a sign that says, hey, we're in an alliance. Like, come on.
- [111:42]
A
Yeah. All right. How you feeling? You feeling good so far? You like the page?
- [111:50]
B
I'm feeling good. It's great.
- [111:51]
A
Okay.
- [111:52]
B
Can be here all day. You know me.
- [111:53]
A
All right.
- [111:54]
B
I can go till 4am I don't know if you know what you signed up for, Taren.
- [111:58]
A
People always talk about, like, oh, man, it's only. We're like, an hour in. We've only done week one, but, like, it usually speeds up as we go through because, like, there's so much that happens in those first few weeks.
- [112:10]
B
Right.
- [112:10]
A
Things get a lot more foundation. Yeah. All right, well, let's talk about week three, because this is definitely another very key week to, like, the direction of the game because Lauren wins this hoh. And this is one where I. Most people I've talked to were very surprised about how this week went down hearing about it, so we'll see.
- [112:32]
B
I can't wait.
- [112:32]
A
But Lauren wins hoh. Her initial instinct when she won is, I want to nominate. Nominate Will, Keanu, and Ashley. Those are the three people she wants on the block.
- [112:46]
B
Wow. Okay.
- [112:47]
A
But the person she trusts the most, of course, is Vince. And so she pulls him in immediately, and she calls him in. In front of everyone, too.
- [112:53]
B
Oh, no. In front. She made a. She made a statement. Week one, this is where Rachel was like, this. This. Because this is why I thought Rachel did not like Vince is because Lauren, week one, said that she was gonna have to. Or no, sorry, not week one after she was. Got this. This is when she said, I have to consult Vince.
- [113:10]
A
Y.
- [113:10]
B
Which, like, insinuated, like, hey, he's basically controlling all of my moves. And that's when Rachel was like, okay, Vince is a problem. So, yeah. Kind of wild that she kind of did that in front of everyone. For sure.
- [113:20]
A
Yes, it was. It was very wild. And also, I believe at this point, I think it was prior to this, the hoh, when, yeah, Rachel had a very funny moment. I think they included in the episode. It was. It was at the end of week two. 2. Vince and Lauren were talking strategy, like, in the bedroom, and she was cleaning the house, and so she just walked in cleaning that. Oh, sorry, guys. I hope I'm not interrupting. Like, oh, no, not at all. And they left, and they went to go into, like, the wine room to continue their strategy talk. And so then Rachel continues cleaning the house, goes into the wine room, and she's like, oh, sorry again. And they're like, no, no, don't worry. We're not talking strategy or anything. And then they go up to the.
- [114:02]
B
The.
- [114:02]
A
The boxing gym. And then, like, 30 minutes later, Rachel walks into the boxing gym with. I swear I'm not doing this on purpose, guys. I'm really sorry. I don't mean to interrupt you.
- [114:11]
B
Oh, she's hilarious.
- [114:12]
A
And so that was, like, a pretty strong tell for Rachel that, like, something serious was going on with Vince and. And Lauren.
- [114:21]
B
I mean, going to the gym to talk, that was, like, the place to talk game. That's, like, the one place where I'm like, okay, if I really want some privacy or need to get done, I'm gonna go to the gym. Which is why I tried to avoid it as much as possible, because it was the easiest way to be. Like, unless you're in workout clothes and physically working out. Why are you in the gym? What are you doing? You know, that's funny.
- [114:40]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Three times Lauren calls Vince to talk to him. Of course, Jimmy, like, tries to be involved. Like, hey, look where the HOHs of the season. Here's some advice I have for you. And. And. But so Lauren says, I'm thinking will Keanu Ashley. I don't want to nominate Kelly. I like Kelly a lot, and I think she deserves a break. And so, of course, from my perspective, it's like, Vince has been trying to target Ashley for forever. It makes like that's his best nomination. And so, like, this is. This is an easy one for Vince. Just let her do what she wants. This is perfect. Vince suggests, okay, yeah, you could totally. She's like, I'm a little nervous. He's like, no, no, you could, like. You could totally do that. You know, Kelly Might volunteer, though, if you ask her, she's like, oh, well, I don't know. And he's like, I mean, just. Just as an option. Just as an option because, you know, you don't want to make enemies. It was like, vince, what are you doing? And so she goes and she asks Kelly, who of course does volunteer. And just like that, Ashley's off the block. And it was like, oh, my God, what are we doing?
- [115:51]
B
Yeah. Oh, that's insane.
- [115:55]
A
Yeah. And then of course, she ends up sort of waffling on this decision. And she, like, right before the nominations, she wakes up the next morning and she's like, maybe I shouldn't do Adrian because. Because I didn't even bring up how Adrian gets involved. But Adrian was up.
- [116:11]
B
That was the. We noticed that Adrian was really trying to not be on the block. So he, he was the one person that 10 o' clock clock hit, and he was in bed getting ready to go to sleep, passed out. He was in that HOH room till like, 4:30 in the morning. And we found that to be extremely sus. That was the first thing I clocked. I'm like, I'm like, first of all, I'm a night owl. Like, I'm up late and you're up there, Adrian. You're always the one of the first people to go to sleep. So it's like, why are you being up there? You know, are you a little worried that you're gonna go up on the block?
- [116:41]
A
This is actually interesting because basically what happened was, was Adrian was trying to talk to Lauren because they had a good relationship. And every time he went up there, she was still up there with Vince. And, and he kept trying to talk to them and. But like, couldn't get in. And so he was like. Felt like he was being talk. Blocked. Went down and talked to Zach and was like, zach, what's up with Vince and Lauren? Are they like, like, I'm. I'm getting a little worried. And then Zach went right upstairs and told them about it and was like, hey, Adrian's down there, like, skeptical of you, you guys. And so then, like, he finally got up there with Lauren to talk and was like, hey, what's going on with Vince? Like, what's, is, is anything wrong? Like, what's happening? And, and so that was basically that night. But then, of course, Vince really tried because he, he, he was trying to basically deflect off of like, this narrative that he was controlling, controlling Lawrence hoh. So he very actively was trying to use the story of hey, Adrian, was up there all night. I didn't have anything to do with it. What was Adrian saying? What kind of deal did he make with her? And he. He didn't make any deal. He was literally just trying to have a conversation with her. It was very, of course, didn't really ultimately work. Work out for Vince in that way. But. But that was. Yeah, that was definitely a Vince special, that one.
- [118:09]
B
Oh, good for him. Honestly, it's a good move because it's like people literally looked at Adrian being like, you're always asleep at 10, you're still up and you're up late. Like, not just like a 1am though. You're up late, like where no one's getting any sleep. And that was something where I was like, okay, because I had already had my eyes on Adrian as a target or like as someone to not essentially pitch because I never. After I pitched Riley with Jimmy, I was like, okay, I'm not going to pitch anybody else. I'm going to kind of see what people. People are suggesting. And I just kind of went off of that. And luckily he was a suggestion. So I was able just to go into my one on one with Lauren being like, okay. So like, I've heard, because I would kind of like shape conversations already as if, like, oh, like I heard that your, you know, your options are Ashley and Adrian. Like, let's go over pros and cons. And I kind of approached that way because I knew that Lauren was very indecisive. And so I felt like if I was able to kind of weigh pros and cons with her, but kind of do a little bit more pros of Adrian going on the block than. Than Ashley, it could potentially work for us to get Adrian up because my whole mission was getting Adrian up on the block. Like, obviously it would have been great if Ashley didn't. But like, my main focus was making sure Adrian was on that block because he was much more of a threat to me than Ashley was. And like I said, this was before, you know, Ashley and I had like a pretty good game relationship. So for me, I was like, I don't really know much about each other, Adrian. And I know at least how he almost won that veto. He almost won that hoh. He's on the other side of things. He's connected to Kelly and Keanu, who are big targets. He was my main focus. I was like, as long as Adrian goes up on the block or, you know, whatever, then I have had a successful, like, campaign for the week.
- [119:47]
A
Yeah. And. And so from my Perspective, at least part of the reason why Adrian was even involved in the conversation. Well, one is because he was. He was on the block the week before, and you guys are pushing it. But, like, the reason why he was being considered was because of that night when he talked to Zach about being weirded out by Vince and Lauren's relationship that I think that, that, like, just put a little seed into Vince of, like, maybe I shouldn't try too hard to protect Adrian because I don't know if I can fully trust him because he expressed some doubt about me.
- [120:18]
B
Right.
- [120:19]
A
And so. And then ultimately I would say this. This strategy of trying to use that night to. To make Adrian seem like he had more influence over Lauren's hwagen than him. It did end up backfiring because it just gave you and. And everyone else more ammo against Adrian, which is also ultimately not in his interest. But yeah, it was very interesting, that whole thing. But yeah. So Kelly volunteers for the initial nominee. Will is an option because despite being in the bond alliance with Lauren, they haven't had a meeting since week one because it was basically made just to keep Zay. And. And they've never, like, spoken to each other in like three.
- [120:57]
B
Right. They haven't spoken at. At all. I knew that from Will, where he. Because he basically was like saying that he was probably going to go up because he literally hadn't spoken but a lick of information with her. And so I was expecting Will to go up and I was just obviously hoping for an Adrian. You know, I was hoping for Kelly Keanu Adrian. That was like my ideal, like.
- [121:22]
A
Yeah. And so she, she started like reconsidering the Will nomination in the morning. Morning. And started going back to Ashley and then like, then was like, or maybe I should just do Adrian now. And like, was freaking. She was having like one on one meetings in the wine room. I. I tell this story because I love it, but at one point she like just walks out of the wine room like she's on the Walking Dead. Just like, yeah, yeah. Can somebody talk to me about what should I do?
- [121:52]
B
Right. Yeah, I think, I think her Getting the Week 3 HOH, I think she was really excited because obviously she was like a big fan of Big Brother and like, you know, winning an HOH is awesome, especially if like that time. But I think because we had one extra person and it was very. It was, it was a high pressure situation and obviously, you know, she was more of like our like introverted kind of quiet players depending on who she spoke to. So I think Yeah, I think she was definitely really nervous to like upset people. I think that was her biggest thing. She didn't want to make enemies because she wanted to make it further in the game. Which that's why I was saying, luckily for me, I mean when, when Rachel told me that Lauren was like, oh, I have to consult Vince, I actually like inside was like smiling and super happy about this is like, oh, like Vince and I are close. So if he's controlling Lauren's hohs, I mean I can, you know, chat with Vince and make sure that like essentially what he's maybe singing to her is coming from me and then we're all singing along and it's just going to be a happy song long. So I wasn't too upset about them working together, especially that week. But yeah, very, very happy. Like when, when she put up Adrian. I think that was great for my game.
- [122:58]
A
Yes. Yeah. So, yes, because of course the, the veto is won by Keanu, which means they will need a replacement nominee.
- [123:10]
B
Yeah.
- [123:11]
A
It's at this point in the game that Keanu is now in this world where he's got his like brigade style alliance with Vincent Riley, the unexpendables, and he's got his whole side of the house which includes Adrian and Lauren and Catherine and everything else. And he believes that, that at this point that it's you. He, he believes in like you, Z, Zach and Mickey or no, sorry, not Zach because he was a man, but, but you and Mickey and Morgan and Rachel and like all of these people and Ashley, like, you guys were basically the people against him. But he saw Rachel as at the bottom of that group and he saw Jimmy as at the bottom of that group and so he felt like he could start pulling them into his like, orbit more. Um, and, and so he started having these conversations like, hey, you should come to our side. And Rachel and Jimmy both were basically like, you don't know what you're talking about.
- [124:16]
B
Right.
- [124:16]
A
You should come to our side. But he of course didn't really listen and so, so he's, he's doing that. And, and there's also more progress being made with, from Ashley's end a of like Mickey is really starting to doubt her relationship with you and the whole thing with Zach and Vince and, and there's all kinds of like things just kind of like splitting apart and, and they eventually like, I, I don't go too deep on it because like it eventually just kind of solidifies back together when Mickey gets the hoh next week. But there was a lot of fractured things happening here where. Where, like, Vince and Zach were kind of like, they were talking about, like, who do we. Who would we rather go with, Lauren or Morgan? And they were like, you know, we're kind of leaning Lauren right now. And meanwhile, Mickey was kind of feeling like, I don't know if I can trust Morgan because she's too close to Zach and Vince. And. And it was like, it was starting to look like things were unraveling even as you guys were getting your way. Um, and then again, like, it. It doesn't end up doing much because by the following week, you've pulled Zach and Vince back in, you've pulled Mickey back in, and it's all fine. But there was a moment here where it was like, this is really starting to come apart, right?
- [125:43]
B
Because I knew that, like, I had a couple conversations with Zach and Vince the first three weeks, and their common denominator was Lauren. They were. They were very adamant. Like, hey, if we can at least get Lauren to do jury, she'll be a vote for us. Like, they were very adamant about Lauren. So I was very familiar that they were very pro Lauren wanted to work with her, and I was totally fine with that. I know that at one point they were, like, kind of entertaining, like, maybe bringing her in on a fourth. And I was like, well, we're already an open trio, so if we are going to work with her, I don't think being open and putting her in this four thing would be even better for us, because it's already. We're already a known trio. If we add a fourth, then it's like, we're just going to be targeted. We're going to be the Renoms. Like, let's not make that any worse than it is. But, yeah, I definitely knew that they were very, very pro Lauren, because, I mean, like, I would ask them, like, hey, like. Because I remember one time I had asked Zach, this is when the heavy hitters was still around. I was like, if it came down to the alliance versus Lauren, like, who are you gonna be more loyal to? Because I know that, like, you guys have, like, a connection and stuff, but there's also an alliance. And he was like, no, I want to play the game. And the same thing with. With Vince. Vince was very die hard for the alliance, so I never really kind of let it get to me. I was like, okay, cool. Like, they find Valley value in her. I'm not gonna, like, harp on it because, like, I have value in people that they're not super close with. So, like, who am I to sit there and be like, no, I don't think you should work with her or whatever. So that was kind of like.
- [127:04]
A
And, and you know it because again, like, I think at this point, I, I think it was around this point that I started saying, started saying sorry, I, I might start losing my voice here because I was yelling a lot in San Francisco. I, I think at this point I was saying because this was around the time of the Renom and there was a huge push from you and Mickey and Rachel and Ashley, of course, and Jimmy, all pushing really hard to keep Ashley off the block. And it was incredibly effective. It was one of the most impressive, kind of like organized campaigns of the entire season. Because there was no, no world where Lauren should have nominated Adrian, just not even remotely. There was no reason for her to do it. She was basically sacrificing one of her own pieces to gain favor with a side that had her at best like number like 8.
- [128:04]
B
Like it was right bottom of the totem pole for sure.
- [128:07]
A
Not the right move at all. Nor was it in. In from my perspective, it was even worse for Vince because for Vince it was like, you, you can make this move and for as much as they're trying to attach you to it, it's still Lauren's move, not yours. And you, and also Vince, you didn't need to be spending 10 hours a day with her to make yourself look so attached to her.
- [128:31]
B
Right? So, so true. I used to joke, I'm like, I'm like, dude. Because I had told him really early. I was like, you really realize that you have 17 hour one on ones. Like people are clocking that you are in these one on ones for 17 hours. Like you are going to be targeted. I'm hearing that you're being like talked about because I had heard it from Mickey, so I never told him names. And I was trying to do that to protect him because I felt like a lot of value in his game and so I was trying to help him. So obviously, you know that eventually like worked, but it's still like temporarily speaking. It's like, you know, her putting up Adrian also was not great for her game, but it worked for a lot of us. And I think the angle that I really like focused on for that was just again, like Adrian almost won that hoh. He almost beat Casey the comp beast. Like, you know, Lauren was. She had won an HOH already. She had done basement break in and had the second best time. So I was really leaning on the fact that like you Know, you are a great competitor. You going against this guy who could potentially beat you is not going to be beneficial for the long run, you know, versus somebody else where, you know. At that time, Ashley had only won one veto. She competed in basement break and didn't make the top three. So, like, I had a lot of valid arguments for Lauren. What I tried to do in each of my, like, campaigning aspects was like, take myself out of my game and put them. Put myself in their shoes and try to make it make sense for their game, which essentially was like, working for my game. I tried to, like, wing those kinds of angles. And so I think that's, like, what really helped that week. And it luckily saved Ashley because her going up just wouldn't have made sense. Like, I mean, like I said at that time, her and I weren't super connected, but she was a number for our side. And the last thing I wanted to lose was a number for our side for sure.
- [130:16]
A
Yeah. And so it was. It was around this time that, like, it was. We were. We were watching Vince and Zach and Lauren, all three of them essentially, essentially just being disarmed, just kind of like being out, pushed out, played in the sense that, like, you guys were pushing and they were like, we feel like we should be pushing back, but we're gonna continue to just kind of like drop the fight. And. And that was, I wouldn't say frustrating for me, but it was like I was very much just like, this shouldn't be happening. You guys have the power. You are in control right now. The hoh. You have the numbers to send home whoever you want. Why are you allowing people to convince you to take out one of your own potential numbers? And it was at this point that they were, again, we're talking about like, you know, you know, who is our true final three. Is it. Is it with Lauren or is it with Morgan? And. And I was like, I think that they. They are not going to get anywhere in this game if they don't have Morgan. Like, I saw this as the second that you align your interests with Vince and Zach or Vince Orszak as it became, right, that's when things will get, like, things will start to fall into place because you have the push. You have like the active playing the. The. The. The. The gumption to actually make things happen where they just, just didn't. And when as long as the. The. You were at odds with them in terms of like, the. The incentives that you had in the game, the. They. They couldn't get anywhere. And so. And I think that really played out. And. And so they ultimately lose this battle. Lauren puts Adrian on the block and then immediately starts thinking, wait, we do have the votes to still keep Adrian. Adrian, we have the votes to tie it, and then I can break the tie to keep Adrian. And Vince was very worried about this because he was like, well, you just gained a lot of favor by putting Adrian on the block. We'll ruin all that favor by sending him home. And of course, the main thing is that he didn't want to get in trouble with. With you and with, like, the house in general.
- [132:41]
B
Right.
- [132:41]
A
And so him and Zach start thinking, like, okay, okay, if we can get other people to vote with us, then it won't be our fault.
- [132:50]
B
Right.
- [132:51]
A
And so they start pitching to Rachel, they start pitching to. To Jimmy, and they don't. They're not exposing their position. They're just kind of feeling them out. It becomes very obvious that Rachel and Jimmy are not going to go anywhere near keeping Adrian. They also talk to you about it. They try to. They try to keep it. They try to prevent you from knowing that they're trying to get you to vote this way.
- [133:11]
B
Right.
- [133:11]
A
You also make it obvious that you are not going to be going in that direction. And so they're starting to run out of options.
- [133:17]
B
Options, right. Yeah. I just never understood their angle because Zach's angle was like, I just. The same thing with, say, I really want someone who's going to be a good compet. Good competitor and can compete and da, da, da. And my mind is like, but he's not working with us. So what? Why are we keeping a good competitor if he's not working with us? So I. I started wondering, especially because I obviously ended up later learning, I think, the following week that, like, Adrian had told Zach about, like, what Mickey said. So I was. I started. That was the first moment where I was like, God, you guys are pushing this so hard. It makes me think that you guys are working with him. Like, because why else would you fight so hard to keep somebody who is sitting next to someone like Amy who was going to be easily beat in the game? I just never understood that. So I'm like, the only logical explanation is that you guys have some sort of something. I don't mean it may not be an alliance, but you guys at least like him enough to. Where you're campaigning. Ish. To keep him.
- [134:14]
A
Yep.
- [134:15]
B
And that's when I was like, just pushing harder as far as, like, okay, so you're telling me that you want to play against somebody who almost won the hoh won the veto. Like, what are we talking about? Like, this just doesn't make sense. You know, it just generally did not make sense to me.
- [134:29]
A
And then they go to Ava and they flip full. They full send it with Ava. They fully say, like, Ava, of all people, to have, like, gone in on. And granted, to be fair to them, Ava didn't tell anybody on purpose about this, but they pitched to Ava that they want to vote Will out and that she should vote Will out. And their hope is that if Ava agrees to do it, then Then, like, they. Then it won't be a tie. It will be a majority vote, whatever. Right. Ava, of course, says, frankly, I don't think that's a good idea.
- [135:05]
B
Right, right. Because it's like, when you're going against someone like Will, it was. Like I said, it's the same thing with, like, Amy. Like, Will was. I think he had a much better social game than Amy, but at the same time, he was not going. Like, the chances of beating him in physical competitions were going to be very easy. So again, it was still the angle of, like, if it came down to Will and Adrian. Why is that even a question? Like, what are we talking about? Like, why are. Why are you guys asking me? Like, oh, well, well, with. With Adrian versus Will, I'm like, there's literally no. There's no argument here. I'm so.
- [135:36]
A
Big thing, too. That seems to get through to Zach. And Vince was like, yeah, I was thinking about it, like, do you really want to associate yourself with Keanu?
- [135:45]
B
Exactly. Yes.
- [135:47]
A
They're like, oh, wow, we really don't. And so they woke up the next morning, they talked to Ava about it again. Again. And they approached Lauren, who said, guys, I thought about it. I'm down. I want to break the title. Evict Will. And Vince and Zach were like, how? We talked to Ava. We're actually thinking, not anymore. Yeah. And. And just, like, it was so close. But then it fell that way. And of course. So all the while, Riley and Catherine and Keanu and Kelly were all expecting Zach and Vince to vote with them all the way up to the eviction and are blindsided when it doesn't happen.
- [136:26]
B
Well, it makes sense. When they were congregating and stuff, I remember Mickey came up to me. She was frantic. She's like, what's going on over there? And in my head, like, I felt super comfortable after speaking with them that they were gonna vote out Adrian. So I was. I was like, it's fine. And also, like, Vince and I were really close, so I was like, nah, he's not gonna do that. Like, there's just no way. It doesn't make sense. But I was just telling her that because I'm like, oh, if they do do that, and, like, we're in for a. For a treat. But that was the first time we actually saw. Before the eviction, we saw a bunch of people really trying to chat and potentially flip votes. Like, I was sitting down because I knew where I was voting, so I was like, okay, you guys can have a chat. But, yeah, that was definitely the first blindside for, like, that side of the house. And it was. That was probably the hardest. Like, the hardest eviction by that point was week three because, like, you know, Adrian speech was really touching. Will got really emotional. Emotional. I think that just, like, attests to how, like, no matter how many days you can be in the house, you can feel for people. Like, you know, Zach was, you know, upset about, say, on day 10. So I was like, dang, this is, like, really hard. And seeing, like, Adrian get emotional, seeing Ava react, because Ava react very emotionally, I was like, okay, this one was hard for Ava. She was. I don't know if she was working with, but it was hard.
- [137:34]
A
Ava knew that she was the reason the vote didn't happen. She knew that if she had agreed to vote Will out that Adrian would have stayed. And so I think she felt especially, like, responsible for. For him leaving. Yeah.
- [137:47]
B
Yeah.
- [137:48]
A
So, yeah, it was. Go ahead.
- [137:51]
B
I was just saying that was. I think that was also the point when it really brought Mickey to a huge discomfort about Zach and Vince because they were congregating and trying to campaign from what it looked like. I remember I had Aspense and he said that he wasn't. But, I mean, at the end of the day, Adrian still left. So I was like, if this guy's lying to me, I really don't care because Adrian still left. So I'm not. Not gonna, like. Because the way I was moving in the house was, like, whether someone lied to me or not, if what I wanted got done, water into the bridge, like, I really don't care because why am I gonna argue about something that is done?
- [138:20]
A
Yeah.
- [138:21]
B
But Mickey, she was very adamant about, like, well, why were they talking? Do you think they were trying to flip the boat? And in my head, I'm like, well, who. If they were, who cares? It didn't happen. You know what I mean? But that was definitely, like, very high tension because, like I said, Ava's, like, reactions, and everyone after that. That was the first time where I was. Was like, huh? Why is everyone, like, so upset? You know, like, I mean, at least on our side of things. Like, so that was kind of a very interesting experience.
- [138:47]
A
Well, and this. This is, I think, an interesting point about your game because we've already talked about it in regards to Ashley, to some degree that, like, Ashley was caught talking about you, and yet you were like, that. That doesn't matter because, like, I have a specific goal, right? Like, I'm not going to let that interfere with. With, like, the direction that I'm going in. And I think this is another example of that. That, like, there are moments where, yeah, there are some inconsistencies, there are some problems, and obviously it's important to note those. It's important to recognize and make sure that you don't get screwed over. But for you, at the very least, like, at the end of the day, you were always able to pull, say, Vince in the direction that you needed him to go. You were able to, without even realizing it, I guess, convince Zach to use his veto power, where you probably would have gone up on the block in this place.
- [139:41]
B
You know, it's funny, he didn't even tell me that till after the veto ceremony. He did not disclose his power till after. And so when he told me, you know, the only thing that I actually felt was, like, one. I was like, okay, so you're willing to not use a veto to. To protect me, which my first thing is like, okay, cool. That means he's down for the alliance. Like, he's whatever. But I also felt a lot of guilt because I was like, damn. Like, this is big Brother. Like, no offense, if it was me, my ass would have used that veto 100 times out of, like, you know, I mean, I was going to use the veto no matter what. So that was, like, the first time where I was like. Because I trusted Vince far more than I trusted Zach, and I had a much better relationship with Vince than I did Zach. So when he told me that, I was like, huh, okay, like, this is good. Like, now I'm feeling more comfortable moving forward. However, obviously, obviously those two were on the block. The veto wasn't used. He didn't use his veto. Therefore, his veto was no longer worth it unless he got off the block and could use it further, further down. Yeah. Finding out that power was quite interesting and actually made me think if Jimmy had a power, because, I don't know, to have a $10,000 essential veto, it was wild, crazy. I was like, that is what is my brother doing?
- [140:52]
A
Wildly imbalanced. We'll talk more about Zach, I'm sure, but I just. I, like, I feel like there is a desire perhaps from some fans to be, like. To. To. To see all of the ways that you were wronged and to want you to, like, be like, oh, man, screw that person for doing that, or, like, whatever, right? And. And I actually think it was part of the strength of your game, even. Even just to, like, to. To make it, like, about the strategy here, that you were somebody that always, like, was able to let it roll off your back and didn't really indulge in it. And I. And maybe some people feel like they just want you to recognize it more or whatever, but, like, I think it's an interesting part of your game that you didn't let these things, whether they were small slights or big things, impact the direction that you wanted to go in the game, because, again, you had a vision of where you wanted to go, and you. You just kind of, like, grabbed people by the collar and just pulled them.
- [141:54]
B
Let's go.
- [141:55]
A
They were like. Like, they were like, I'm trying to stab you in the back, Morgan. And you're like, that's fine, but you're coming this way, right? Yeah. And that's, I think, such an interesting way to play that not a lot of people feel like is possible because it's like, well, if somebody's scheming against you, you should be taking them out. But again, as I mentioned during this week, Zach and Vince are basically saying, we're going to choose Lauren over Morgan. But at the end of the day, day, who did they actually choose? Right. And so there's something there, right, that, like, you don't have to accept the betrayal. You can kind of be like, all right, try to stab me all you want, but if I need you in this game for a particular reason, I feel like I can use you to get in this. Go in this direction. There's something there. I think it's. I think it's interesting.
- [142:44]
B
Yeah, I know after the Adrian eviction, like, I had talked to them and obviously, like, knew where their vote was at and stuff. I'm pretty sure. And you can correct me if I wrong. They both kept. Will.
- [142:54]
A
They did both keep. Well, yeah.
- [142:55]
B
Yeah. So I talked. Right. So I talked to them, and, you know, I was like, you know, we kind of talked it over, and I was just like, you know, obviously, like, they understood my angle, like, now. Was that the reason why they did? No, I mean, like, I remember Finding out later, Keanu had told me that, like, you know, Zach just didn't want Lauren to break the tie and all that other stuff. I'm like, hey, whatever the reason is, I don't care. Adrian left. That's exactly what I wanted, right, because he was going to be. Be a competition threat. I don't know about socially because I think his social game kind of, like, started a little bit slower. But regardless, his competition threat was a thing, and, I mean, he was well liked. People did say how. How they loved how honest he was and these things, and I'm just like, okay. Like, this is just. I just always paid attention to what people said. I was very. I focused a lot in the very early games on my social game. I was chatting with people. Like, I was in the kitchen with. With Rachel and Mickey, like, kind of doing laundry, like, doing the normal stuff that I do in my life. Like, I love to clean, I love to cook, and just chatting with people to kind of see what little seeds that they can give me so I can, like, like I said, keep it kind of in my arsenal. It's kind of like ammo. The way I look at it, like, if I'm playing a video game, I'm, you know, collecting my ammo, collecting, you know, my shields, my syringes, just kind of keeping a little bit of everything. But, yeah, I know when I. After that eviction, I just didn't want the guys to feel like, you know, oh, okay, like, cool, Adrian's gone now. Let's keep moving. I was just like, you know, I really leaned in on, like, hey, I know he was your friend. Like, I know that wasn't an easy vote. Like, and I really relied on still nourishing that. Those friendships with them and still making them be like, hey, I understand. Like, it's a game. You guys are now losing another friend. First it was day, now it's Adrian. Like, but this is going to be better because it's one less person that we have to like more so you guys, you know, because these are two guys leaving, so it's like, you guys don't have to compete as hard any. Well, not as hard, but, like, you know, we're getting rid of these targets. Like, we're making. We're surviving yet another week. Like, we are doing the right thing, and, like, our trio was still really solid.
- [144:46]
A
Tell me if I'm interpreting this wrong, but it sounds to me like what you're saying is that, like, despite the fact that you had a little bit of, like, like, there's something going on there. You didn't care to sort of, like, investigate. You wanted to just kind of like, be like, hey, I know that was hard. Making sure they're still on your side. Is that. Is that kind of what you're saying?
- [145:06]
B
Yeah, because I know when. When Zach had initially said, like, hey, Adrian told me, me, you know, that Mickey said this, this, this. It's like, those kinds of. The reason why I never really was like, hey, so, like, why were you campaigning for Adrian? Like, were you guys really trying to flip the vote? Because I'm like, what does that do, Morgan? Like, Adrian's already gone. If you try to make them feel like, oh, I can't believe you were going to try to do this anyway. They're gonna be like, who's this girl talking to me like this? You know, like. So I just wanted to make sure that they still looked at me as like, okay, Morgan, regardless of where our vote was week one, even week two, like, she's still riding with us. Like, she's still making it it clear, like, this alliance is everything to her. Because, like, that was one thing I always made sure before we went to sleep, like, we were trying to think of a name, which we ended up thinking of a name, but I don't think it ever aired. But, like, it took us forever.
- [145:49]
A
It was a baseball related thing, right?
- [145:50]
B
Football. It was the strong side. We got it from the. Remember the Titans. I was telling them, like, there was a moment in the movie and I was like, yeah, we're the strong side. And they loved it. And so, yeah, to me, like, that was the thing because, like, I tried to look at the whole game as a perspective of, like, okay, I'm coming in to obviously play my. My own game, but I'm working with other people. So are others going to do that too? Yes. And who am I to sit there and be like, oh, you wanted to do what I would have done? Like, if I was them, I would have thought personally too. So I tried to just be as, like, empathetic and understanding as possible, but still kind of leaning on the whole, like, hey, guys, like, we're still doing really great. Like, let's keep moving forward. Our alliance is still strong. Like, I kept sharing more information with them, so they felt even more comfortable after, like, letting go of Adrian. Even. Even, like, just anything that they talked about, even if it was Lauren, I was like, yeah, she's a great competitor. I just always wanted them to feel comfortable with them sharing information with me. So they never thought for a second like, oh, I don't know if we can trust Morgan anymore.
- [146:46]
A
And I love this approach, and I don't think it works for most players because I think it can only really work if you are the driving force of the season, because otherwise, you do have to be, I think, extra cautious about where people are leading you. But because you were doing the leading, it did behoove you to kind of, like, overlook faults or. Or, you know, whatever, because, you know, perfect is the enemy of good, and you needed a good alliance. Right. You needed a good path to the end.
- [147:17]
B
Right?
- [147:17]
A
Yeah, I think it's. I think it's interesting.
- [147:19]
B
Yeah. And, I mean, obviously, I'm not sitting here saying, like, oh, I saw every single thing. I'm just this. Like, I just. Some things that I'm like. Like, that's why I told Mickey. I'm like, look, if they did try to find flip the vote, it didn't work. So, like, water under the bridge, girl. Like, it's me, and you still, like, lock it in. Who fucking cares? Like, if we really need to go back to it, like. Because what I did is I just took notes of things. So I was like, okay, cool. They tried to potentially flip the boat. Let me put that in the back of my head. So that way, in the future, if I see that again, then I might press a little harder or I might be like, oh, well, that reminds me of week two when, you know, I just kept receipts and then brought them out when I really needed to use them. And if I didn't, then I'm like, okay, I'm just discarding the receipt.
- [147:54]
A
Move on to the next. All right, so we get to week four. Keanu and Riley and Catherine have just been blindsided, and Kelly have just been blindsided. And Vince immediately goes to work doing damage control, and he throws Zach completely under the bus. He says, it's Zach's fault. Zach wouldn't vote with me, so I knew the numbers wouldn't be there, and so I didn't vote. It was all. It was all because of Zach. I couldn't get Zach. Zach to come with me, and that's why Keanu and Riley and them were still fine with Vince and were so mad at Zach. Meanwhile, with. With the line they were supposed to say, which was. It was they were doing it for.
- [148:33]
B
Lauren, which it actually worked in Vince's favor because Keanu was pissed about that. I remember when he explained that to me later in the game, he was like, I can't believe he gave a lame excuse. And da, da, da, I mean, to be honest. I mean, Vince saying that, like, kind of worked for him, to be honest, because it made Zach the enemy. Like, I had learned that week that Keanu did not like Zach. And I was like, oh, okay, this is good. Like, this is good for me. Because now, like, people that could potentially be on that side of things, like, maybe he's gonna now start coming this way because, like, I knew that they were very much in the middle because we always talk about. Talked about, like, their relationship with Keanu. So, like, after the whole, like, issue that Keanu and I had, they were always giving me information about what Keanu was saying. Every single thing that Keanu would tell them about me, they always told me. So I was always, like, one step ahead of Keanu, at least far as far as knowing, like, what he was saying about me if he wanted me out. Like, I remember there was one time specifically where we were all hanging out in the wine room, and I left, and they ended up telling me later. Keanu was like, she's. And I'm like, they told me every single time. So I was grateful for that because I was always at least aware of certain people that I knew for a fact if they were to win hoh, I was going to be on the block. So I was always, like, mentally preparing for a couple weeks ahead.
- [149:51]
A
For sure. Yeah, I feel. And, you know, obviously, I've. I. I have some criticisms for Vince's game, but I actually, I think this was his most successful damage control. It was sort of like the. The. The peak of his style of doing damage control, which is, you know, because he. He was going up to Riley, like, I feel like such a. A. A weasel. And I. You like a real man, and I look up to you. I wish I could be more like you, Riley, and, like, like, really playing up to their egos and really just like, throwing Zach. And this was. This was him, I think, at his. At his best in terms of, like, he did really get away with this. I think part of the issue is that, like, it only kind of works really well once, and then when you try it again, it's like, wait, is.
- [150:39]
B
This a pattern, right? Is this a pattern or is this, like. Yeah, for sure.
- [150:43]
A
But Riley wins this. Hoh. And, of course.
- [150:48]
B
Can we talk about that? Hoh. First of all, that was insane. I mean, I was excited for the bounce beam. I was not expecting because, you know, they obviously sectioned us out. I don't know exactly what they showed. And I remember when we first got in the huddle, you Know it's Ava, Mickey, Rachel, and I. And it's funny because actually, before they told us to separate, that was the first time that I was like, okay, like, this is a strategic separation. This isn't like, hey, guys, just getting a little kumbaya little groups. This is supposed to be strategic. But we didn't have enough time. I looked at Rachel because at that time, I feel like Rachel was my. Like. I mean, Mickey was my number one, but I looked to Rachel to, like, okay. Like, she's. I could recognize that Rachel was a strategist. So I was like, okay, cool. Like, we're going to be on the same page of strategy. So I was, like, looking at her, and I was like, kind of like, you know, like, I kind of want to go over and, like, pick someone like Keanu or Kelly or somebody who is not on our side, because I don't know what this twist is going to be, but they don't just tell you to separate for no reason. So when we separated, we just kind of clung to, like, the groups that were close by. I remember getting in the huddle, Ava, Mickey, Rachel, and I to decide. I'm like, okay, cool. And they're like, okay. So, Morgan, I was like, okay, okay, cool. Great. Was not expecting that. I was hoping we could have more conversations, like, oh, who was a dancer? Who was good? The only thing I did know is Rachel always talked about how the balance beam was, like, the death of her. So I knew we weren't going to pick Rachel to do that. But I was confident in myself because I obviously had a background in sports, pretty decent in balancing. And so I was like, okay, cool. Like, let's do this. And I still cannot believe. I mean, when I came out and I saw, like, Zach's time of. Of 32, I was like, okay, say less. Like, I'm out to smash this time. Did that.
- [152:23]
A
And then when I was surprisingly so bad at that, that. Yeah.
- [152:27]
B
So I heard, like, after. I remember, God, was it Ava or someone? Someone was like, God, Zach was horrible at that. And I was like, well, you know, he's kind of more of like a stocky guy. Baseball. Like, I wouldn't put baseball and, like, grace in, like, there's not a lot.
- [152:40]
A
Of balance you're doing. I don't know.
- [152:42]
B
Yeah. I'm surprised they actually didn't pick someone like Jimmy or Ashley, but maybe I don't know what their conversation was in that huddle. But after I finished, I felt so good because that was the first time where I was like, okay, okay, Like, I'm gonna put, like, my own personal self first, like, in the back burner, because right now I have to work for these girls. Like, I need to protect us. Because the rule was whoever got the fastest time could eliminate four people. So I was. Or two people from each team or. I think. No, I think it was four people. Whatever. I forget what it was, but I was like, okay, that was the first time. I was like, okay, I have the team on my back right now. That was the, like, the first time I felt, like, actual pressure of doing well in a competition. Competition. Because, like, in other competitions, I wasn't super stressed. Like, on Twin Witness News Week 3, I had the wrong answer up, and I just didn't feel like switching it because I'm like, I don't really feel like I'm going to be that big of a target. Like, the only person left up that could have put me up on the block was Riley, but I didn't think that he was going to beat anyone else that was up there, like, based on, like, what I had learned. So I was like, okay, cool. Like, don't need to worry about this competition. But this was the first one that I was like, okay, I need to do something, because I have not only my ass on the line, but I have my team on the the line. And then Keanu beats me by 0.8, which is 0.8 is, like, insane. And that was the first time that I actually show any sign of, like, lack of composure, because I feel like that was one thing going in. I wanted to make sure I maintained a lot of my composure throughout the season, whether it was a vote or anything. I didn't want people to ever actually be able to see if I was, like, truly affected by things, which is hilarious. Now that we're talking about week four, because that was the first time, I think that whole week I broke full composure because it was a mess. Um, but when he beat me and then he was just like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like, just me, Ashley, Mickey, and Will. I was like, well, damn. Okay, like, just go ahead and tell us. You, like, you know, like, I was like. I was like. I was like. He basically told us what his. Who his nominations would be with the real.
- [154:29]
A
That was mine, too. Like, that was where the entire. It was obvious that there was, like, two sides of the house, that he was on one side and you guys were on the other. So it was like.
- [154:38]
B
But it was crazy because I don't know how they filmed it, but, like, the first time he was like, he was like, yeah, yeah. He goes, you know, Mickey, Morgan, Ashley will have a seat. We're all like, damn. You know what I mean? Like, and so it was crazy because I'm like, okay. Like, now. That was the first time that I was like, okay, like, game on. Like, now you want to. You want to, like, like I said, you want to poke the bear? Like, let's go. You know, I was enraged.
- [155:02]
A
Yes. And then, of course, we have this moment.
- [155:05]
B
I get to choose. I'm the legend. Okay. This is the first time that I looked at Rachel and was like, oh, my God, I think I love her. Like, not like that, but I was like, oh, my God. I have never been more, like, excited in my life. When I saw her literally cling herself to him like a leech. I was like, oh, my God, this No wonder this girl's one big brother. I actually was like, I'm not saying by any means I was getting turned on, but I'm just saying I was like, oh, my God. Like, Rachel, like, yes, girl. Like, you, like, yes. This is what I'm talking. Like, and that's why I was like, my gut intuition on her, my reads on her. I was like, she's exactly how I would play. Like, if I felt like. And that was the first time I was like, okay, Morgan, like, don't be afraid now. Like, because I was, like, a little. I was like, would I have done that? No. But now. Now when I saw that, I was like, oh, I'm gonna play. Like, I'm gonna play even harder now. Because she was not willing to let anything. Because she knew the mission she was. She knew to cling to King Keanu. And I was just like, oh. I was like, I don't know. I don't care. What you want for dinner. What do you want? I'll cook it. Like, how can I. What do you want, Rachel? Like, I will do anything for you. Because that was so incredible. Like, that, to me, was the first time where I was like, okay, Rachel is one of the best players this season. Like, I don't know what. What the house is looking like, but for me, she's a front runner, and I'm so glad I'm aligned with her, because that's the kind of ally that I want. And when they got in that group and I saw, like, Keanu, like, gripping, like. Like, just gripping Vince and trying to make sure that his. The teammates stayed close, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is insane. And the fact that both Rachel and Vince threw that to make sure that Keanu didn't win. It was just chef's kiss. Now, Riley obviously ended up winning, but I'm just saying, just in that cinematic moment. Oh, what a moment. I was obsessed with watching Vince throw himself off the balance. Balance beam and like, and throw it. Like, even Rachel, because, like, you know, I knew she was terrible at the balance beam. Seeing her, like, really. And the fact that Keanu didn't think that she threw it is hilarious. Yeah, I was like Keanu. Anybody with eyes could see that both of them threw that, like. But actually, here's what I will say. This is where I think Keanu messed up. So he decided to have them to go first and him go back to back. But him doing that like the. He have like, him having to move like his body, like, you know what I mean? Like that. I think he should have went first Vince, then Rachel or like Rachel, then Vince, either way. And then finished it off kind of like what Riley did. Riley was very, very smart. And that was the first time that I was like, okay, like, Riley's a little bit more strategic than I think because him going first, he was able to go twice. So he was right. He went twice. That one, I think, if I'm not mistaken, because that's. I think he went. Went twice. And like, I mean, he destroyed that timing. Like, no offense, there was not a day where Kiana was going to touch that time with Riley, like, that was just so impressive. And that was when I was like, okay, like, Riley's showing kind of how he can. Can work in these kind of competitions. Like, I'm gonna clock that because that was very impressive.
- [158:12]
A
Well, I will tell you, this is this, this is the perspective of the, like, the live feeders, the very least of this, because at this point, the live feeders, they're very much not fans of Riley by now, right?
- [158:24]
B
We know about that.
- [158:26]
A
They've seen a lot of Riley. And it's actually. This is around the time it starts getting worse. But even so, like, they are not fans of Riley. They are very much fans of you and Mickey and Rachel and everyone.
- [158:41]
B
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- [158:54]
A
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- [159:27]
B
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- [159:40]
A
For details feeds come back. Riley is the HOH winner and it's just like everyone is just like miserable. It's just like, oh my God. He's. And he's talking about he's going to put up you and Mickey and Ashley.
- [159:57]
B
Yep.
- [159:59]
A
And. And he's like bron out with Keanu about it. And. And it was like, oh my God. And at this point as well, for the last like three weeks, we've all been talking about how Mickey's power is dead in the water because she told you about it, didn't tell anyone else. But the problem is that Zach and you know this, I'm sure Zach was right there. He basically heard Mickey get it and told a few people. Yeah, yeah.
- [160:26]
B
Because he had told me and Vince about that. And so when he first said that, I was like, shit, now I really have to go to work because I want this power for. For Mickey. Like, I want her to be able to have an hoh. We. We're going to need this in the game. If Zach actually talks too much or is close to the wrong people, it's not going to. Because, like, there were some people that like, they, like, everyone knew I sucked that comp. I got lost. Like, literally I was like, hello? Like, is anyone. I got lost. People knew I was not near the end. And like you said, like, Zach share. Like, people knew Ava sat in at the front. Jimmy had one hoh. So there were some people that they knew just automatically it was like dropping like flies. So finding out who could potentially have it was actually a little bit easier. And that was kind of making me a little bit anxious because I'm like, the longer she waits to use this power, the more she's not going to be able to use it because it's just going to be the more people leave. Process of elimination. The only other person that I was trying to really throw it on was Catherine because I was like, okay. Like, I thought Catherine. Catherine was like a sleeper pick. In a sense of, like, she was really quiet, kind of mysterious. Like. But I'd heard her game talk when I was up in the HOH room when it was like, Jimmy and Lauren up there. So I was like, okay, like, she's gaming. I just don't think she's gaming with me, which means she's gaming with others. So I tried my best to deflect that, but, I mean, Zach was spot on with that read. And I was worried because I'm like, oh, my God, like, we cannot let this happen. So, like, what can I do? And I was like, no. I was like, she would tell me. Like, I know she would tell me, and I would tell you guys if I knew. I just tried everything I could. I threw everything, everything at them. Like, there's no way. Like, maybe she was helping because she couldn't find anything. I even said. I was like, there was one time I was up there and I didn't have anything, and I was trying to help. So I just came up with as much as I could think of to make sure that they wouldn't actually pick Mickey.
- [162:09]
A
Yeah. And so. So from our perspective, it was like, literally everyone in the house knew that Mickey had the power. Like. Like, I would say most of them were, like, 90 plus percent confident. Confident that Mickey had the power. Even Keanu had been basically told, like, mickey probably has the power. And so we were like, this power is not going to work. It's just not going to work. And my only thing was, I actually think the investigation will make it a little more likely to work than the reverse because it will introduce a little bit more, like, information and doubt. And then my other thing was, the only person that might not choose Mickey is Keanu.
- [162:48]
B
Right?
- [162:49]
A
Yeah. And so we all expected, like, Riley wins. We were like, even if Mickey does.
- [162:54]
B
Use the power, they're gonna guess it's her.
- [162:56]
A
They're gonna guess it's her, and it's gonna be even worse. And so basically, there were people that, like, woke up the next morning, started going through the timeline, like, oh, Riley's the hoh. Oh, no. And then, like, hours later, Mickey's the hoh. And it was perfectly jubilant, the celebration.
- [163:17]
B
It was incredible. I mean, I remember Mickey pulling me, and she. She's like. She's like, can you find out what Riley's gonna do? I was like, give me an assignment. I'm gonna do it. You know what I mean? I was like. It's like. I was like, I needed to know as well. So I went directly, obviously, to the boys. And I was like, what do we know? Like, what do we think? And I was obviously not playing it as, like, oh, God, I need to know now. But I was like. I was like, hey, like, you know, what do you think Riley's gonna do? Like, do you guys think I'm in trouble? You know, like, let's talk about it. Because obviously none of them had been on the block yet. So I was kind of trying to make it seem like, oh, God, like, is this the first time one of our alliance members is gonna go up? Like, you guys are closer with Riley? Like, let me know. I kind of played more on, like, a. Not, like a sympathetic level, but just kind of like, hey, like, what do you guys think? And then he was like. He's like, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's going to be you, Mickey, and Ashley. I was like, okay. I was like, well, that's good to know. Like, you know, it's kind of played it off. And I went directly to Mickey, was like, girl, it's not looking good for us. Like, it's generally not looking good. And that's when she was like, should I tell Rachel? And I was like, yeah. Because especially since we just saw how Rachel was, I'm like, she could potentially help us in this. And she did. I mean, like, her diversion, everything, that was, like, just incredible. Incredible for her to, like, do that. Even now, I don't know if she told Ashley. I'm assuming she might have told Ashley or just was kind of, like, hinting at, like, hey, Ashley, kind of help us here a little bit.
- [164:30]
A
So Ashley also, of course, had a very good idea that. That Mickey had the power. And so Rachel started acting weird. And then Ashley was like, mickey, he has it right.
- [164:40]
B
Yeah.
- [164:41]
A
And Rachel was like, don't tell anyone.
- [164:44]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, the funny thing about Rachel is I think she was a much better, like, strategist and, like, player. But you could kind of tell when Rachel, like. Because, like, she would sometimes wear on her face because, like, that's how I started to tell that, like, her. And, like, after Jimmy had left, and we can obviously talk about that. But, like, when I could tell on her face that, like, I was like, okay, like, Rachel and I are on the same page anymore. Like, I could just have a feeling. But I was really happy about that whole entire scenario because obviously, like, you know, Ashley and I don't know if this is true, but I feel like she really plays up the whole, like. Because everyone thought it was either Ashley or Mickey. So I See Ashley playing it up, and I'm like, yeah, yes, girl. Like, yes, yes.
- [165:18]
A
She went up there and was like, I'm. I'm so sorry this is happening.
- [165:24]
B
Yeah.
- [165:25]
A
And. And there's. It's so. It's so good because, like, Riley is like. I could. I could tell she's a bad actress. She was, like, choking on her spit. I know, I know. It's her.
- [165:36]
B
It's Ashley.
- [165:36]
A
It's Ashley. It was so good.
- [165:39]
B
Meanwhile, it's not Ashley, exactly. And it was, like, quite crazy because that was like, literally in the middle of the night for us. That was probably at like a 2:00am it was very, very, very late. Like, you could. You could hear a pin drop. Like, Catherine was pissed. And that was also. I don't know if they're like, showmance was like, out. Out at that time, but, like, we obviously knew that they were definitely an item or a duo or whatever and just feeling the tension in the room. But I was, like, even proud of, like, Zach and Vince because Zach was very convinced that it was Mickey. And I was curious if he was going to say anything thing. But it worked that, like, Riley. I mean, like, I just will never forget when Riley was just like, yeah, so I think it's Ashley. And I was just like, oh, my God. I wanted to scream and jump and, like, punch the air. I was like, yes. Like, Mickey gets hoh. Like, I was so excited that, like, she was gonna be able to, like, you know, get hoh. And we were gonna be able to take control of this week. Yeah. And make some big moves.
- [166:37]
A
That was the other thing, is that we knew. Zach knew basically, for sure. It was like, how in the world would this work if Zach tells them? And so basically what happened is. I don't know if he told you this, but, like, he. He went up there and said. And basically said in the diary room, like, I know it's Mickey, but I don't want Riley to be hoh. So I'm not going to tell him. I'm going to lie. But then on the other side of it was. Was Vince, who was like, trying to tell Riley, like, no, it's Mickey. He actually. He says, and. And I clicked this because it was perfect for Vince. This is what he said about it. I let him know without pushing too.
- [167:13]
B
Hard.
- [167:17]
A
Without being too. Without being too obvious.
- [167:19]
B
Right.
- [167:20]
A
He was trying to tell him it was Mickey, but it wasn't. It wasn't breaking through, it wasn't clicking. So it didn't work. And to be fair to him, also, like that, like, he did almost go on Mickey's hoh, so, you know he did.
- [167:34]
B
Yeah, we can talk about that too, because, my God, that was like. That was actually like the true game changing perspective for me. It came to Mickey. That's when I was like, damn. First it was Jimmy, and now it's you. Like, to me, at that point, the triple threat was gone. Like, it was just gone for me as far as, like riding it out to the end because I was like, it just. Yeah, we'll definitely talk about that because that was. That was hard for me. But yeah, so when. When it was announced that Riley was incorrect and I was really worried for Mickey because I know, like, when it, like the thing that was hard about her, her power was that, yes, it's a. It's a takeover, but you have to show yourself. And I was like, oh, my God, this can either be really good for Mickey or really bad for Mickey. And optics people see Jimmy really close with her. Jimmy close to me. Like, am I going to be naive and think that people aren't going to see us all? Like, I feel like people were definitely clocking it. And I was like, okay, so this isn't good, but it's kind of like, kind of making one of those. Like you're showing one of your cards face up, and that's okay because guess what? She's the hoh. What are you going to do exactly?
- [168:38]
A
And that was exactly. It is that, like, once Mickey came into power, it, like, everything started falling into place again. Like, all that stuff that we were talking about where, like, it was seemingly starting to unravel. Like, all of a sudden, Vince and Zach were like, Lauren, who we need. We need Morgan because we need Morgan's influence over Mickey. And so they were like, gravitating toward you much more again. And. And. And Mickey, Nikki, like, had just a complete sort of rearrangement of her priorities as the HOH at this point where she was like, okay, I'm like, I'm all in again on Morgan and I want to, like, work on this rel. And this was the. This was the most wild thing was she. She, like, Riley loses it on her. She nominates him. And then. And. And by the way, Riley is having conversations with Cass. Catherine, like, I hate her. I hate her so much. I want to go, like, threaten her if she dares put you up on the block. And Catherine's like, Riley, you have to be nice. You have to pretend. And so Riley goes to. To Mickey and he's like, it's okay, I'll. I'm gonna protect Catherine with my life. I'll protect you with my life. Mickey's just like, he's gonna protect me with my life. I've got it.
- [169:52]
B
Believes that. Yeah.
- [169:53]
A
And then later on, like, a couple weeks later, he's, like, bragging to Keanu. I can't believe Mickey fell for that. Like, it's just like, Mickey, like, how do you have these people unlock. It was so. It was so obvious.
- [170:06]
B
Yeah. I. I remember, like, early in the. In the season, she had. She was talking about my social game, and she's like, morgan, like, your social game is, like, impeccable. Like, the way that people just gravitate towards you. Like, you know, And I think that's kind of why she felt very uncomfortable with Zach and Vince, because she thought I was going to choose them over her. And I was always being like, mickey, like, it is literally me and you. Like, this was my first ever final two. I pitched it like I really wanted a Mickey, me, Final Two. But it was hard because I think her HOH was definitely an interesting one, because in my head, like, when she told me, she's like, yeah, like, Riley is cool with it. Like, he understands. And I remember talking to Riley several times, and he always brought up how he was never going to forget how his HOH was taken over. And I was like, I don't know what he's doing in that HOH or what he's saying to her, but, you know, like. And I never brought it to Mickey's attention because she was very adamant about, like, no, no, no, no, no. Riley promised. Especially if I keep off Catherine. Like, I'm building, you know, I'm doing this for us. Like, this is going to work out. And I was just like, unless Riley's blowing smoke up my ass, which I don't think he is, because if I was him, I would also feel like, damn, you're gonna take over my hoh. I'm gonna come for you whenever I get the chance. I don't. I never understood why she trusted it so heavily, to the point of, like, starting to value that versus what was already built. And that's where I started getting little bit, like, kind of like, oh, God, like, what's going to happen this week? Because, like, you said, like, everything. Like, she won the. Like, she got the hoh. Everything was now perfect for our side. We had full control. Now we're going to get it rid of another number over on that side. But then she's saying, like, oh, well, I don't want to put up, you know, Catherine, it's like, oh, okay, okay. Yeah, let's just. Let's see how this week goes then, you know?
- [171:53]
A
Yeah. Um, so again, like, the nominations initially are. Are fine. Kelly and Keanu and Riley, obviously. But then, of course, Keanu wins the veto again.
- [172:06]
B
Yes. On that. That was my first competition, too. That was the first time competing in a veto, at least. And it was funny because I. That was one of the competitions that I studied. I studied Tucker, I studied, you know, all those things. And I never looked behind me to count, like, my process of the steps, because I'm really good at that stuff. And that was, like, one thing. I was like, oh, I got this in the bag. But I was more worried because when they told us that it was a time base because Tucker and them, they didn't have a time base. It was just whoever completed it first. Which is why you see that face off between him and Cedric.
- [172:35]
A
Right? Yeah.
- [172:37]
B
So when they mentioned the time, I was like, oh, okay. So, like, what I was initially going to do, I can't do because it's time. And it said whoever's the fastest is going to go to the finals. So when I saw I was going against Rachel, I was happy about it. I actually felt a lot of, like, pressure with Mickey because she was going against Keanu, and I thought I was going to go against Keanu because he picked one, I picked two, but they did it bracket style. So when I was going against Rachel, I was like, okay, cool. If I can at least try to push myself and go as fast as possible, then this may potentially help Rachel, because I knew Rachel was gonna be good. She had kids. She's played memory games. Like, I felt really good about our, like, segment, and I honestly felt kind of like the same thing with the hoh. Like, this was a team thing for me. It's me and Rachel working together to get the fastest, fastest time of that portion. And it worked. Like, I. I don't know if she was ever, like, looking my direction, but, like, we had the fastest time because.
- [173:25]
A
So. Because just to. To help out the. The listeners, this is the one where you are, like, choosing. It's like the squid games kind of thing, where you're, like, choosing which is the correct one.
- [173:35]
B
Exactly.
- [173:36]
A
And. And both players, I believe, have the same pattern.
- [173:39]
B
Same pattern.
- [173:40]
A
So you can kind of, as you're saying, work together to reveal which are the correct paths in order to get the fastest time. Which mattered in this case because, like, the fastest time was getting, like, a by Round to the.
- [173:53]
B
The finals. Exactly. Now you couldn't sit there and be like, hey, Rachel, like it's right, right left. Like you can't say that. But she could easily have looked over because we've seen that in past seasons. I mean it was definitely a little bit harder cuz the depth perception from being that far apart. But regardless, her and I had the same pattern. Mickey and Keanu had the same because it changed per like round. But I was super happy when Rachel 1 and got the fastest time because I was like, okay, this is going to make it harder for Keanu. Will he. Will he make it to the end? It's very likely. I mean he was very good at that. He took his time. He was very patient. But at least Rachel's in the finals and not, you know, like Keanu or even. I mean, I guess I wouldn't have been upset if Riley would have gotten it because then it would have potentially solidified Keanu going home still leaves.
- [174:34]
A
Yeah, I mean he probably wins the blockbuster.
- [174:36]
B
I know I was like, unless the blockbuster, which I can't remember what the blockbuster was. I think he actually would have gotten that because Riley won that one, that blockbuster. And I think if Riley the balance one, I think Keanu would have gotten that anyway.
- [174:48]
A
But yeah, Riley was pretty good at it. But there was definitely a. Jimmy would have beaten Riley if he hadn't missed a shot.
- [174:56]
B
So yeah, I thought Jimmy was a great competitor too. Like, that's why, you know, when I talk about the triple threat, I was happy. Like, I think people. I think Jimmy had like. He was kind of more so focusing on his social game like I was. But I was confident that he was going to do well in. In, you know, physical competition positions and things, especially because he had like played tennis. Now I don't know if he actually played tennis. I didn't think he was telling the truth about his job, but I thought like he was a tennis ad.
- [175:16]
A
Like, you know, I believe he was actually a tennis coach at some point. Yeah. Then he was also like a. Whatever.
- [175:22]
B
Yeah.
- [175:22]
A
I don't remember what his actual job.
- [175:24]
B
Yeah, I don't either.
- [175:26]
A
Washington political person.
- [175:27]
B
Yes. Yes. What I will say is that competition and seeing Keanu win and seeing Jimmy's reaction to Keanu winning. The first person I looked at was Mickey. Like we made eye contact being like, did you just see that? Like, because it's like we knew he's. He's been wanting Keanu out since week one. Right. Keanu had been targeting me, Mickey and I talking about how we're cooking our way to the top. Like, we had. We had heard so much more from Keanu. Like, we had known that Keanu was directly targeting us. So when Jimmy just erupted and hugged him, we were both like, wait a second. Like, first of all, this is Mickey's HR And I'm also competing to try to get this. And you're excited that Keanu won, but were your alliance. So that was the first time where. I don't know if it showed it in the episode, but Mickey had looked at me, and I was like, he gotta go. And then she was like. She was like. She's like, you're gonna have to do it on your hoh. And then I was like, you have a renom. And I think that was like, the first initial. Like, girl, you have. Have arena. We have. We can make some moves. Because to me, if you're in alliance with somebody and you're elated, that's somebody outside of your alliance who is directly targeting your alliance. That just was. I was. That just did not make sense to me at all. Like, at all.
- [176:42]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So this is. This is where things get weird, because.
- [176:48]
B
Very weird.
- [176:50]
A
There's basically three options there. There's the correct option, which is Catherine. Then there's the, like, risky move but could pay off option, which is Vince. And then there's the I don't want to win this game anymore, which is Jimmy.
- [177:12]
B
Jimmy.
- [177:13]
A
And this is for. This is for Mickey because obviously there's different incentive free you, though. I still personally think that Catherine is still the better option for you, even over Jimmy.
- [177:26]
B
I'll agree with you on that.
- [177:27]
A
Yeah, but. But it's. It seems to stem from, you know, Keanu comes up and has this long conversation with you and. And Mickey, and correct me if I'm wrong, I believe, like, the intention there initially was to, like, a number one. Like, Keanu just won the veto again. We have to save face. And then number two, we're still, you know, pretty upset with Jimmy over week two, and we see that Jimmy has a good relationship with Keanu. We want Keanu to be more mad at Jimmy than. Than at us. And so you're trying to be like, hey, like, Jimmy. Really? Jimmy. Jimmy. Jimmy. And he keeps going like, but Rachel. Until finally he's like, okay, yeah, I guess. Jimmy. Yeah, you're right, Jimmy.
- [178:14]
B
Yeah. So after that happened, I remember I was devastated that I lost that because I was like, this is the first time I can actually, like, feel like I can win something potentially and make a move for Mickey. And, like, keep the noms the same. I wanted to do it for her. Obviously, we came up short. Keanu won the veto, and I went into the have not room, and I was, like, broken, and Keanu was actually the first person to, like, comfort me, and I was like, what the hell is going on? But, like, it was nice. I always respected Keanu as, like, an athlete. Athlete and stuff. And I remember even telling him, like, after that or like, that was like, later in the. In the other conversation, which we'll get into. So I'll just go back to, you know, Zach and Vince came in. They were, like, checking, and then Jimmy came in, and he's like, so. Because I thought he was like, hey, are you okay? Like, I'm so sorry. But he was like, so it's gonna be Catherine, right? Yeah, because I think with Catherine. And then he just goes in, and I'm just like, whoa, bro. Like, read the room right now. Like, now, yet again, the house can't get Keanu out, and. And now it's trying to think of options, and you're just automatically, like, ready to go. Catherine, Catherine, Catherine. Even though all Mickey has been saying is she was not going to put up Catherine because she promised Riley, and she didn't want to damage that relationship. So in my head, I'm like, I don't even know what's going to happen at this point. Like, I'm just pissed off at you because you were so elated about Keanu winning this when you knew the mission, which was to get out Keanu. So I didn't understand. I'm like, sure. Can I. Can I maybe understand that he was trying to save face? But I think there's a way that you can save face without pissing off your allies to the point of, like, you literally celebrated, like, jumped up in the air. Like, his head almost hit the ceiling. You know what I mean? It was just like, jimmy, hello? Like, so insane. So that was like, the first time where me and Mickey were like, like you said. We thought back to week two where he was more so consulting, like, Catherine, Lauren, and other people and not us. It's like, oh, so Jimmy is playing his own game, which he should be. But, like, then why does he keep saying triple threats, everything? Triple threats, everything, everything. Because it's giving that. It's not giving everything. You know what I mean? So we were just very confused on that.
- [180:09]
A
Okay, so give me the timeline, because there is. There's sort of like a. A little bit of like, a back and forth with this, even just from you yourself, because you do push initially for Jimmy, and then you start to. I guess I'll give you my interpretation, which is that you initially have this idea of, like, you know what? Screw Jim Jimmy. Let's. Let's do Jimmy. And then after thinking about it a little bit more, you're like, wait, no, it. It actually does make way more sense to do Catherine. Why don't we just do Catherine? But. But Mickey's like, I'm never touching Catherine. Mickey then at that point says, my other option is Vince. And so you're like, okay, then Jimmy.
- [180:49]
B
Right? Because so I obviously was upset at Jimmy, but I was like, okay, we can figure this out, because it's a. It's triple threat. Maybe we can have a conversation. We can kind of see what's going on. But I had also heard from, like, other people that, like, Jimmy was creating alliances and, like, just kind of doing some things. And I was like, our agreement in the very beginning was to tell each other everything if you were in an alliance, if you were doing other things. So that way, like, no one's blindsided and we're working together, we can try to figure out, like, the whole game as a whole and try to navigate that way. So the more Mickey and I started finding out things that Jim Jimmy was doing, the more we were confused on, like, well, why is this happening? Like, what's going on? Like, recognizing that, like, his damage control was not doing very good. So I was just really confused, but I was like, okay. Catherine would also be a very good option because she's not on our side of things. She doesn't really talk game specifically with me. But Mickey loved, at least to my knowledge, the way she. The way it came off was because of that HOH takeover. She really bonded with Riley and Catherine and made this, like, groundbreaking breaking, you know, I don't know, connection with them to where she was like, I promised Riley I would not put her up. I'm not gonna put her up. And so then I was just like, she's like, but people have been mentioning Vince, and I was like, in my head. So now this is where I'm losing my mind, because I'm like, wait, but we're in a. We're in the melting pot. Like, yeah, why are we gonna put up somebody together? Yes. Like, we put the melting pot like that, like that day in her hoh. So I was. Was like, you know, wait, but, like, we're in this alliance, why are we gonna put up Vince? Which, I mean, I get the other things, like, well, Morgan, that the same thing can be said about Jimmy, and it's like, sure, I totally understand that. But Mickey and I both were very confused on why Jimmy was, like, purposely damaging, at least for our. At least I'll speak for myself, because I can't speak for her. But, like, going around telling Lauren and Catherine that we don't like them going around continuously spreading the rumors and, like, enticing Keanu to continue to. To come after me and Mickey, like, that was a direct ally doing that to us. I did not understand that. And to me.
- [182:53]
A
Yeah. What I will say. Sorry to interrupt. What I will say for Jimmy in that regard is that I do think that that was inflated by Keanu. Like, a lot of that did stem from Keanu, and Jimmy actually even at times, tried to get Keanu off of that train of thought. But Keanu was very honed. Honed in on that idea. And so I think Jimmy took a lot of heat for, like, fanning those flames, but, like, the flames came from Keanu very much so, I would say.
- [183:21]
B
Right? I mean, living in a house with Keanu and seeing how he was, like, navigating, like, you're right. Like, once he's, like, set on something, it's like, you cannot tell. You can literally show evidence. You can show him a clip, and he'll still be like, no. Because I think actually. And it's like, okay, well, you know, fine. You know what I mean? Like, because even I'll give counter some.
- [183:39]
A
Credit because I did a whole deep dive with him, and he's been very. He's been very open to hearing all of the criticism.
- [183:45]
B
Yeah, I played. I played some video games with him the other day, and I teased him about it. I was like, oh. So I was like, how does it feel to know that me and Rachel actually weren't targeting you? And he started laughing so hard, I was like, hey, it's okay. Like, you know, it's just a game. It was really funny, but more so like, just in the house at that time. He was desperate to get out the people that were talking about him, and. And he thought it was me and Mickey. So, of course, like, we knew it was coming for him, but we also knew Jimmy was not doing as much, you know, trying, at least to our. Or my knowledge. Like, you know, he never was like, hey, Morgan. Like, I'm trying to tell Keanu, but he's not listening to me. He was just like, no. Like, I don't. Like, you know, it was just kind.
- [184:22]
A
Of brushed under the very bad job defending Himself, I will say, yeah.
- [184:27]
B
So that was the hard part for me because, like, one thing about me, I'm obviously, like, a passionate person. So if I was to see him being like Morgan, like, I'm telling you, I was talking to Keanu, I've done this. I would have been maybe, like, okay, okay, like, okay, like, let's try to reshape some things. But it was very much like, don't worry. I'm handling it, like, triple threats in a great position. And it's like, how. No, I think you're in a good position because we're getting targeted. We almost went on the block this week because of Riley. We're still getting targeted because Keanu, like, you're in a good position, not us. Like, the only reason why we're good is because of this power. So I remember when Mickey brought up Vince, how she was like, yeah, other couple people are bringing up Vince. That's what. When I was like, oh, no. Like, this is not good. Because Vince, without, like, us, like, officializing anything, like, he was my other. I guess, like, final two, if you will. And that was actually only because when Mickey brought that up, she knew how close I was to him, and I was like, wait, like, this is so weird. Like, why is Vince all of a sudden when. Like, when. I thought when we made this, like, group before, you were excited about it, like, it. I felt like you. You were happy that, like, we were on the same page. So that was really hard. But what I will say is when we did have a meeting with. Because I had ended up learning after the show because I had a couple friends be like, you blindsided Jimmy? I was like, what? We didn't blindside Jimmy, But I guess the way it came out is, like, we blindsided Jimmy.
- [185:47]
A
You. Well, there's a. There's a scene in the episode because it wasn't on the feeds, but in the episodes, we see, like, you. You two, like, rushing and getting ready as you're explaining to Jim, and then he's going up.
- [185:58]
B
So. Yeah, so last, like, the night before, after we talk with everyone, we pull up Jimmy and I let Mickey take the reins on this because she's the hoh. And I was like, you know, if I'm hoh, I kind of want to be the one to take the reins. So I'm gonna let her do the thing. I'm just gonna kind of be here as a support. And she was going through the memory wall and just asking him every question that she had from her one on ones, because I didn't obviously wasn't sitting in these one on ones. I was letting Mickey do her thing, just being here, support and Ally and stuff. So she was asking a lot of questions. We. I had ended up finding out from Vince that supposedly an alliance was created after Adrian's eviction. It was pulled in by, I guess, like, Jimmy pulled in Kelly, Keanu, Vince, and was kind of like, hey, we need to stick together, you know, whatever. I don't know if that actually happened, but that's what this is.
- [186:51]
A
I believe this was a real conversation, but I believe that Vince intentionally, intentionally tried to place the blame on Jimmy because he knew he was an option also that week to be nominated. So he tried to make it seem like it was a Jimmy thing, even though it wasn't really a Jimmy thing. Jimmy was just, again, like, sort of. I mean, he's certainly culpable in that conversation, but, like, okay, again, it was. It was less so, like Jimmy trying to, like, make something happen and more so Jimmy just trying to like, be like, sure, guys, like, don't come after me.
- [187:19]
B
Yeah. Because the way he explained it was like an alliance was created first by Keanu. Like, Keanu pulled them in and was like, hey, you know, like, Like, I don't know what happened with this foe, but, like, we need to work together. And Jimmy told us that he basically was like, oh, like, like he just kind of brushed off an alliance and basically, like, said that he wasn't going to do it. And me and Mickey are like, first of all, big brother 101 is you never turn down an alliance. So we didn't understand his reasoning on that because it's like, that doesn't even make sense. It would make much more sense if you were like, yeah, actually, let's do an alliance. Let me go tell my girls what they're doing. But he kind of denied that he accepted the alliance, which is where we were like, wait, why would. Would you potentially deny an alliance being suggested to you or proposed?
- [188:00]
A
Yeah. So, like, I think. I think again, like, some of the context of this is that for weeks now, Keanu has had the perspective that he's part of the majority with Vince and Riley and Catherine and Lauren and. And he's been trying to pull Jimmy from the bottom of the other side to his side, and the other side is you and Mickey. And so, like, he's been sort of like, talking to. To Jimmy. And it was always so funny to try to talk about Keanu's game because it was really like, we, we. We said it was Keanu playing the game was a little bit like the little brother holding a controller that wasn't plugged in.
- [188:37]
B
Like, sorry, that shouldn't be.
- [188:40]
A
Oh, my God. He was just.
- [188:44]
B
The time Keanu.
- [188:46]
A
And so he was crying so hard, too.
- [188:48]
B
Oh, bless his heart.
- [188:49]
A
Exactly. And so I think at that point, Jimmy was very used to just like, yes. And again, like, yes. And in Keanu. And like, listen, the guy keeps sticking around. I'm happy for him to not target me, but I'm obviously not actually working with him in any real capacity. And so.
- [189:05]
B
Right.
- [189:05]
A
You know, it's. Again, like, it. It definitely looked bad. And. And Vince was able to spin it in a way, and Keanu was able to spin it in a way, and it definitely wasn't great. And what he did during his HOH was terrible. But I think the. The thing for the audience at the time was, like, at the end of the day, Jimmy was infinitely more loyal to you and Mickey than he was to almost anyone else in the house. Maybe Rachel at that point had, like, been as. With the same level or so. Yeah, but. But he was very much. And my thing at the time, too, is, like, especially for Mickey was like, even if you can't fully trust Jimmy, he's still not your problem to deal with. He's a problem for everyone else to deal with first.
- [189:52]
B
Correct.
- [189:53]
A
Before they come to you and you're just doing their dirty work right now. But, yeah.
- [189:59]
B
Yeah. So that was, like, one thing that was hard, at least for me, because when we talked about that and Mickey was asking every question, I mean, like, season. The one thing about Mickey is she was very good about talking with everyone and getting, you know, asking the questions that she wanted to ask. One thing about her that she told me was like, she was someone who would mirror. So, like, let's say you came to her and was like, God, I don't know how I. You know how I feel about Kelly. She's like, oh, yeah, I don't know either. Like, she would kind of, like, encourage the same kind of thoughts or feelings. And so when she told me that she mirrored people, I started doing that for her as well in certain, like, circumstances. So I'm like, okay, this is how she's playing. I'm gonna do the same thing. So she thinks I'm kind of like, oh, yeah, Mickey, I agree. Where I'm just like, I'm trying to get as much information from her. But in that hoh, like, she. I started hearing all the questions that she was asking Jimmy. So I'm learning about like, conversations she's having with people and what people are potentially about Jimmy or other people. And so we caught Jimmy in a lie, and that's kind of what really did it for me, because first he said Keanu pulled them in to make this alliance, and then he said Kelly did. And I'm like, so which is it? And why are you lying? Because if you're saying that you weren't interested, why is the story changing? It should have just been. Yeah. Like, I got pulled in. I wasn't really sure about this or whatever. So that was the first part where I was like, oh, this is not good. Because if he is creating these alliances behind. Behind our back, I don't want to get blindsided at any point. I don't want to all of a sudden think that Jimmy's not on our side. And so after that, she, you know, of course, that's when she suggests Vince. And that's when I was like, well, if Jimmy's kind of making alliances, like, we have the four, like, it doesn't make sense to put up Vince. Like, why are we going to do that? Like, he never, you know, I just kind of went to bat. I bawled my eyes out because that was the one person outside of Mickey that I was super connected to. And I was like, I felt that if. If Vince had gone up in the block and went home, I was in a much, much worse position just because of the connections he had with other people. He was giving me information about Lauren, about Keanu, about other people that I was not fully connected to. So losing Vince was bad for my game that week.
- [191:55]
A
Yeah. And. And, you know, it's. Again, for me, it was just like. It just. Just should have been Catherine, you know? Like, it was.
- [192:03]
B
I know. I wish it was. I wish it would have been Catherine. She was just very adamant about not upsetting Riley because her. Her thing was like. Because she got pretty emotional about it. She's like, who am I to take over his hoh and then put his girl up on the block? And in my head, I'm like, it's a game. Like, I know. I don't know. Like, you know, you just gotta kind of do it.
- [192:22]
A
I've never seen somebody tank so hard, both in, like, win equity in the game and also popularity from outside that. Like, it just like that week she went from, like, the front runner and, like, like a lot of people's favorites to just like, oh, she's clearly going to lose this game, and screw her for making that move, because that was so stupid.
- [192:44]
B
I was like really shocked because like after, like I said, after we had that conversation that night, Jimmy actually pulled me in the have not room. And I don't know if they showed this on the show, but he asked me, he's like, should I be worried about Mickey? And I didn't want to throw Mickey under the bus and be like, yeah, you kind of should. So I would because like, you know, at the end of the day she was my final too. So I was like, I was like, Mickey's felt like after that conversation number she was just like, I can't trust him. And trust was a really big thing thing for her. And so after I just was like, hey, maybe just go talk to her. I just tried to encourage him to go talk to her because I felt like at that point, like she's the hoh. She's going to make a decision. I don't want to be the one to tell you, like, hey, like this isn't looking good for you. So I didn't. And then the next morning we were not prepared to get like literally over the intercom. Like, the veto meeting is going to be in 15 minutes. That's why we were frantic. We thought we had plenty of time. Like we woke up because like our plan was she's like, she's like, hey, like, why don't you come up, we'll get ready, we'll bring Jimmy up here and like we'll actually have like a sit down conversation and help him understand like why he's going up on the block. Like, that was our entire plan. Like, Mickey did not want to blindside him. I did not want to blindside him because at the end of the day we still cared about him. He was still our friend. He was still our initial final three. And then when I'm getting up there, we literally get the announcement and me and Mickey are looking at each other like, what the fuck? What do you mean we're having a Beatle meeting. So then I'm like, I was like, I'm going to go get Jimmy. And then like she, then she said that's, that's when you start seeing the frantic rush around because we were very unaware and unprepared that the veto ceremony was going to be that soon. And that's when you probably see us trying to get Jimmy to stay up there. And then he leaves. And I'm looking at her like, you got to see something. Like, I can't start. I'm not the. Like, you got to say something. And then that's when it probably shows like us telling Jimmy and him being kind of confused. But I also, I don't know, it was. That. That morning was a lot for me because I'm like, okay, this is a lot. I know this is going to be hard for Jimmy, but like he's also not like pushing too hard back. So maybe it's. I don't know, I just didn't really understand. And then that was definitely where things really changed, like temperature wise in the house. Like, I feel like that was the first time where it's like, okay, a lot of people are pissed or a lot of people are kind of like, wtf about it.
- [194:46]
A
Yeah. So, okay, so the reason why Vince gets brought up in the, in the consideration, of course, is. Oh yeah. Rachel and Ashley, who start pushing hard for Vince at this point. You know, Rachel has been on to Vince. The fact that he does one on ones with everyone and he's clearly got a million final twos. She's been looking to take a shot at him. Ashley has also been on Vince's case since basically week two. Rachel has made a final two with Ava at this point and also opened Ava's eyes to Vince who is like, rachel, Rachel, I, after you told me that I watched, I watched him pull people one on one all day long. You're totally right. And so Rachel made a big push to get Vince on the block, of course, has this big conversation with Mickey where she says to put Ava on the block. Knew who she was referring to because she felt like, if it's not Vince, then like, what are we even doing here? Right? And Ashley is up there trying to get Vince on the block and it works. And, and Mickey is like, okay, I think I might have to do Vince. And part of the argument too is you can't take out Jimmy. Jimmy's a number for you. Vince is a number for Morgan. You're just doing Morgan's work. And. And then Mickey basically tells you that. And. And you are just like, you cannot do Vince. You cannot take him from me. Like, this is like, you can, can't do this. And Keanu interrupts the conversation as well. And. And he makes his case and you talk her down and up goes Jimmy instead. But that's not the end of that story because Ashley at that point is still like, okay, this is not good for us. Rachel is pissed. And so Ashley keeps trying to do a little bit of work to feel out like, can we get the votes to keep. Keep Jimmy? But this immediately gets back to Mickey and she's pissed. Yeah, this was like, Ashley's house pariah again, round three, basically.
- [196:47]
B
Yeah, she. I think Ashley, in the beginning, kind of really, because sometimes Ashley would say, like, comments that a lot of people felt were, like, insensitive. I don't know if she meant any harm by it, but a lot of people would be like, oh, Ashley's doing a little bit too much, or Ashley's doing this. And, you know, there goes again, like, Ashley just kind of being, you know, kind of fanned. You know, like, her. Her flames are being fanned.
- [197:07]
A
This would actually referred to as, like, her al el woods be a little bit disliked strategy.
- [197:14]
B
Okay. I love that. But, yeah, I remember before we, like, get into that, like, that was when Mickey and I had a really deep conversation with Keanu because he was going around apologizing for. You know, I. I believe you have a prompt, you know, whole thing, like, with Ava. And so I was. Remember, because this is something that I was going to, like, mention in my final speech if I ever did. Like, oh, God, I keep punching this thing. One of the things that I feel like I did really well on was. Was, you know, turning, like, my enemies into people that. Whether. Whether or not they're allies, they no longer viewed me as a threat or they viewed me as an asset. Because when I. When Kiana came out to apologize, I was still just, like, itching at my core to understand why my name was still in his mouth. I was like, I don't understand. We had a. We had. We squashed beef. We did all this. Why am I still continuously hearing that you are jabbing about my name? Like, I did not understand. So I remember when you're outside, and he was just like, yeah, I just wanted to apologize. Like, I know I came off wrong, and da, da, da, da, like, and I was like, hey, do you mind if I actually, like, you know, if we actually talk to you? And I remember Mickey looking at me. I was like. I was like, I think we can go in the hoh room. Like, that was the first time where I was like, okay, I'm going to take kind of, like, the reins here. Like, we need to talk on it. Because all this, like, he said, she said, like, we're not even speaking about it is annoying and. And it's dumb. Like, I'm trying to make sure that, like, he's not targeting me anymore. And that's when we see that huge conversation. I don't know exactly what it showed of it, but, like, in the hoh room with Mickey, with Keanu, and then that's when we were able to show Keanu that, like, we were not the ones spreading the bs. And that's when Jimmy's name was also even a bigger target for at least me and at least perception for Mickey, because we found Keanu to obviously be a huge target. He was a great competitor. His social game, you know, needed some work. But at the end of the day, he was a house target. And having somebody who could potentially win HoHs or take himself off the block and still be around was dangerous for minor Mickey's game. So I did that move to make sure that if he was going to go for anybody, it would no longer be for Mickey and I, because we were not the ones even talking about him. Like, you know, I tried to save him, like, all. All these things. And I think that conversation, at least to my knowledge, felt, like, very genuine and honest. And that's when he learned about getting Jimmy out, which I think is probably the reason why, like, when Ashley was trying to get votes, why it probably didn't work, because once Keanu was, like, set on something, that was it. So once he realized that Jimmy was the one speaking about him, I'm maybe assuming that's why he was like, okay, Jimmy's got to go.
- [199:45]
A
Well, basically. Basically what he said to Vince right after was like, this is perfect. They're going to take out Jimmy for me, and then. Then I'm freed up to take out them next. Basically.
- [199:57]
B
I mean, it makes sense. Like, honestly, it. It made sense. My whole thing was like. Even if, like, obviously that was his plan. I just did not like the whole, like, uncomfortable discourse that was happening in the house to the point of, like, like, oh, there's Keanu. I can't really say anything or, like, having even. Even it was affecting mine and Mickey's relationship. Like, she was getting bought, bothered by, like, if I was making food for Keanu or if I like things like this. So I was like, I just am trying to make sure that, like, at least on my perspective, someone like Keanu, whether he's targeting me or not. This kind of goes down to, like, what I was saying as far as, like, water under the bridge for me. Like, as long as I can show, like, my character and, like, how I'm moving in this game and being like, look, this is what happened. This is the honest thing, then maybe that can earn me favor in the future. Or they can be like, oh, well, Morgan told me this, and I think that helped in future relationships. Relationships too. So that was, like, just one of the moves that I Feel like actually helped Keanu later on understand that I have been honest with him the entire game. Even though he thought, I think that's fair.
- [200:55]
A
I think that, like, because it's. It's less so that Keanu, I think, was actively trying to, like, lion manipulate, but, like, I think he sort of, like, he. He was happy to go along with blaming Jimmy and taking Jimmy out. Although he did consider keeping Jimmy later in the week. He ultimately didn't. And. But. But, like, he was just so locked in on you and. And Mickey. He was never like. Because Vince was like. When he said that to Vince, Vince was like, but. But what about. What about Ashley? And he was like, ashley's not a problem. It's. It's still Mickey and Morgan smart. But. But he obviously did eventually come to respect your game a lot, and I think. I think was. Was very much a vote for you in the jury as well. So, you know, there is, I think, something there in the sense that, like, at the very least, it opened the lines of communication, but, yeah, definitely did not get him off of your scent quite yet.
- [201:55]
B
Right. That was like. But that was my. My whole thing is, like, as long as Keanu can understand that, like, I'm here to have conversation. Like, regardless of whether we're going to be allies or enemies, like, conversations needs to be had. We're playing a game where social is a big part of it. And I was just kind of tired of, like, questioning because, like, you know, obviously, like, Vince would be like, oh, I talked to Keanu. He said this. I'm like, well, did he really say this? Or is that what just. You want me to. To know? So whether or not Keanu was, like, blowing smoke, I still was like, well, I'm just gonna at least be honest, tell him how I'm feeling, and he can take it or leave it. It's kind of like the same thing I did when Rachel on her hoh. Things like that. But I will say. And I. And I will, like, agree with you. Like, taking out Jimmy probably. Probably wasn't as good of a move, considering. Because here's the thing. If Cath. If. If Mickey was open to putting up Catherine, I would have much more pushed for Catherine than push for Jimmy. But she was so adamant about no Catherine that I was. I think.
- [202:43]
A
I think people forget that, too, because, like, I saw it like you did. You did push for Catherine a couple of times, but every time you even mentioned her name, it was like, absolutely not. Not even close to an option. And so ultimately, like, there wasn't much you could do to keep pushing in that direction.
- [203:03]
B
Yeah, because it's like, at that point, it came down to Jimmy or Vince. Obviously, I'm going to keep Vince because I didn't feel like Jimmy was really riding for me as hard as I wanted him to, which obviously, I end up learning that he was. But still, it's like, in hindsight, Catherine would have been the most ideal, but she was just anti Catherine. I was like, well, no other name was going to be mentioned. Like, no one mentioned Lauren or no one mentioned, you know, like, other people. But, like, I don't think even then, like, Lauren was. Lauren wasn't even a reason to go up on the block. Like, I wouldn't have even petitioned for Lauren to go up on the blocks. I'm like, Lauren's close to Vince. That could help me. So the only other option outside of Jimmy was Catherine for me. And since Catherine was not an option, it was like, well, better Jimmy over. Over. But, yeah, that was a tough week. That was a tough week.
- [203:44]
A
Yeah, it was. So there's. There's one final bit of this, which is Ashley, of course, realizes Mickey's pissed at her, does her Ashley thing where she. She just, like, went up to the hoh room and, like, refused to leave the conversation until Mickey opened up about it.
- [204:01]
B
Really?
- [204:02]
A
Like, Mickey, I feel like something's wrong. Mickey was like, no, it's. It's fine. Mickey. Mickey, like, what's going, like, for an hour before Mickey finally is like, I'm just mad about this Jimmy thing. And then Ashley's like, no, I haven't done anything about Jimmy. And. And this is where Ashley does something that is. Is pretty key to the following week as well, is obviously, you guys make the melting pot alliance. This is sort of like, we're taking out Jimmy. We're gonna solidify together. This is our thing. And I think Mickey was, like, pretty on board with this. But Ashley had been talking to Ava, and Ashley also had a weird vibe at the Adrian vote. And so she pretends to Ava that she knew that Zach and Vince were trying to find flip the vote to see if Ava accidentally will. And she does. She's like, yeah, it's so crazy that they tried to flip the vote like that. And Ava's like, I know. They came to me that night before. Wait, how'd you know that? And this pisses Ava off. But. But Ashley then gets this information, brings it to Mickey, and says, hey, did you know about them trying to flip the vote? And Mickey's like, yeah, I kind of feel figured, but actually, no. What? What do you mean? They tried to flip the phone, right? And she's like, yeah, apparently Zach and Vince went to. Went to Ava the night before. They were, like, trying to get her to flip on Will. And Mickey's like, wow, I'm really looking at Zach differently because I really believed him when he told me that he didn't try to flip that vote. And of course, this is like, this helps repair their relationship at this point, but then also starts pointing, pointing Mickey back at Zach, which is very relevant because Ava wins the following hoh. And under Mickey's instructions.
- [205:48]
B
Yes. Yeah. Because I remember after Jimmy went up on the block and that vote, Ashley's vote. Because we all knew it was Ashley. Everyone knew it was Ashley's. Yeah.
- [206:03]
A
Like, you have to have seen the clip of Ashley.
- [206:06]
B
I haven't seen it. I honestly, honest to God, I have.
- [206:08]
A
Not watched back into the. The d. Oh.
- [206:11]
B
Oh, I saw, like, a brief one. Yeah, I saw that one. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, I thought. I thought you meant a different one. Yeah. So I haven't watched any, like, deep dives or anything like that, but I did see that, and that was comical. I was like, oh, my God, Accidentally.
- [206:20]
A
Voting the wrong way. No, I meant to. It's. I'm voting Jimmy. Voting Jimmy out.
- [206:24]
B
Yeah, right, right.
- [206:25]
A
And then. And then, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- [206:30]
B
I just sounded like, no, no. So I think at the end of that, like, after Jimmy gets evicted, I remember, you know, Ashley pulling me in and she was crying. She's like, it wasn'. It wasn't me. And I knew it was her because I'm like, it wouldn't have been Catherine. Like, Catherine did not like the fact that Jimmy was throwing her name to me and Mickey. Like, the only person that makes sense is you. But like I said, there's just something. I was like, whatever, I don't care. Like, that's Mickey's problem. Because Mickey, I remember she said, like, if Ashley's the one who went against me, like, because she had a lot of discourse with Ashley, as well as I know that conversation that you were just mentioning where they were up there talking. Mickey had came to me after her and was like, I don't remember exactly what she said, but essentially, like, Ashley had had some kind of, like, comments that was made and, like, really pissed off Mickey and, like, kind of. I don't know, she just said some things and, like, Mickey was really bothered by it.
- [207:20]
A
There was a bunch. I. I sort of simplify the story by pointing to the One moment. But there. There were a few back and forths in the relationship between Mickey and Ashley, which. Which ultimately. Ultimately culminated in them coming back together. But, like, right. There was. Yeah, there was another argument, and then there was also one with Will involved. Well, there were multiple. There was a very funny conversation with. With Ashley, Mickey, and Will up in the hoh room where Mickey was, like, trying to be mad at Ashley for the Jimmy stuff. And then Ashley be like, no, I haven't done any of that. And then Mickey was like, ashley, you talk way too much. And Ashley's like, why do you mean I talk too much? Will, do I talk too much? And Will would be like.
- [208:04]
B
Will was always in those rooms, kind of like. Like, just wishing that he had, like, a bottle of wine and just.
- [208:09]
A
He never wanted to take aide, and he just wanted to agree with everyone.
- [208:13]
B
Which honestly made sense for his game.
- [208:16]
A
Yeah, well, okay, so if you have two daughters fight, you might not have. Yeah, exactly. You might not have seen this, but Will has a whole storyline in the diary room about how it. He is. He's very. He, like, he. He can't handle it with all these young people in the house, and he doesn't even. He's not listening half the time. He's like, yeah, they were just. They were just talking to me, and I was just like, yep. Yeah. And then they would show because that's like. That's Will's personality. Like. Yep, 70% of the time in the house.
- [208:49]
B
Yeah.
- [208:49]
A
So multiple times we'd. When we were watching Will, we'd be like, okay, is he listening in this conversation, though? Because.
- [208:56]
B
Right. It's looking like he's not, like, listening. Yeah. So I just know that after that, like, I remember Mickey was feeling some type of way about Ashley because she was like, I think Ashley was the vote. And I was like, Ashley was about. Because the thing is. And I don't know if, like, Ashley was intending to do this, but, like, when I had talked to her, I was like, ashley, you were the one person that was with Rachel and Jimmy the whole week. Why wouldn't it have been you? You know, you were hanging out with them. People heard you came campaigning. Oh, that was the issue. Mickey had told me that she had heard Ashley was campaigning for Jimmy and then lied to her about it. And that was kind of where that came from, Ava. Yeah. So it was just a lot of things. And that's when I was just trying to tell Mickey because, like, again, it's like one of these things where it's like, okay, like, this is a lot. Like, I understand people are saying this and that, but, like, Jimmy is evicted. Like, this is something that. It's like, if she really wanted to. To, you know, go after Ashley and handle that, that was, like, kind of her prerogative. I didn't really have any issue. I guess I just knew that, like, obviously, like, the insensitive comments and things that she was saying, but, like, at the same time, like, I said, I was like, we had, like, you know, essentially what I got, what I wanted happened. So I can't complain right now.
- [210:09]
A
Yeah. So ultimately, it is Jimmy that's evicted. Ashley tries to switch her vote in a very humorous fashion. AVO wins the following HOH and. And Ava.
- [210:22]
B
I can't believe. I mean, can we. Before we get. Can we talk about how. How people played that game?
- [210:27]
A
It was very emblematic of the gameplay of the season.
- [210:31]
B
I was so pissed. Like, when. When Riley volunteers, I was like, volunteers? What are we volunteering for tribute? This is not the Hunger Games, guys. We're playing Big Brother. This is a whole knockout. You're supposed to. To target people. And then he picks Zach and somebody. Or Zach and Catherine, I think, or Zach and somebody. And then Zach picks me and Will. I said, what the. I said, oh, my God. I almost. I. If I could have just said. What I really wanted to say was, like, are you kidding me? Like, are you dumb? Like, respectfully, why are you picking your allies to play in this game?
- [211:04]
A
Especially because he ends up leaving that week, especially. And strangely, that's not even the worst movie made.
- [211:11]
B
No, that wasn't. That was just the start of the worst moves of the week. And my thing was like, usually if you do pick up your. Pick your allies, it's when you have no one else to pick from. I'm like, zach, if you're aware that you're being. You know, if you don't like Ashley or if you. If you're not feeling Keanu, if you're not feeling Rachel, why wouldn't you pick them? I just never understood that will whip my ass. Like, I. You know, he got the right thing. I was happy because I was like, okay, cool. Like, I really don't want to win this hoh. I don't want to have, like, blood on my hands. Especially since Mickey's HOH just happens. Like, if I go back to, like, not back to back, but it's like, if it's Mickey's and then me, like, people are like, okay, these girls are really running this. So I was like. I was happy that I didn't win it, but I was like, that's not how you play this game. Like, so then I'm just like, okay, I'm just, like, learning more about the people that I'm aligned with. Like, okay, like, that wasn't a smart decision. Is he going to end up making a dumb decision like this in the future where it, like, really matters? And then, yeah, like, and usually, like we've seen in past Big Brother seasons, the people who make it towards the end and could potentially win that are the people that people find less threatening winning and, like, you know, not a problem. So Ava ended up winning that hoh and started the week of. Yeah, that was a very interesting week for me, seeing both of my, like, you know, alliance members up on the block and, yeah, clocking a lot of things. Go ahead.
- [212:29]
A
Yeah, well, so Ava wins this hoh and she. She knew immediately who she was going to nominate. It wasn't a question for her. Keanu had yelled at her. She said, they got into a fight. She said, right, Vinnie the Lip, because she's been on to him for a while. And then obviously the third nominee was Ashley. She was 100% dead set. Ashley's on the block. She's been annoyed at Ashley for a while. She was annoyed that Ashley even floated the idea of keeping Jimmy. The fought the previous week, and she tells Mickey this, and Mickey says, it can't be Ashley. It needs to be Zach. And she talks to. To Will, and Will says, I think it should be Zach and. And Ava, one of the first hoh of the season to say something along the lines of, these are the people.
- [213:19]
B
That I trust the most in this house, so their opinion I truly value.
- [213:25]
A
Wait, valuing allies, opinions. What.
- [213:31]
B
You know, was crazy about that week, I remember I was playing chess with Zach, and Ava had came up. She had already told me to my face that I was safe. She came, came up again, looked at both me and Zach in the eyes. She's like, guys are good, like. And she was fully confident about that. So I remember seeing Zach's face for the first time. And I remember being up there playing chess and stuff and saw only Will and only Mickey going in that hoh. And when I saw the nominations, because, remember, she was very adamant. She said, I don't need one on ones. I'm only going to pull you if I need you. And I think to me, her saying that wasn't the smartest move, only because it kind of basically said, hey, I'm going to you show you guys my cards. So when you guys see me pull somebody, you guys are gonna know who I'm close with. And that's why everyone clocked. I mean, everyone saw that the only two people that she spoke to were Will and Mickey. And I think that's why Keanu wanted to make an alliance to go against them, because it's like, that's her basically saying, like, hey, guys, I'm gonna pick my two closest allies to talk about who I want on the block. If you're on the block, well, blame. Blame them or whatever. Because when I saw Zach, that's when I was like, okay, so Ava lies to people's faces because I literally saw her look Zach in the eye and say, I am not going to put you up. Like, you're safe. But then I also was like, okay, let me slow down. Because two other people only spoke to her, and it's very likely that they had a hand in this. And my initial gut feeling was that Mickey had a hand in it. And, like, that's when you see me, Zach, and Vince, like, going crazy in the gym. Like, I don't know if it showed that, but we were just in raged.
- [214:59]
A
Exactly. Well, that. And that was the thing, is that Ava immediately saw that you were very displeased with the nominations, and at that point was like, I want the veto used. I want Morgan on the block. If she doesn't like my nominations, she, frankly, she can go on the block. And sounds like her. And. And. And Mickey had kind of fanned those flames and then realized, oh, it went too far and tried to be like, well, maybe. Maybe she shouldn't. Maybe she shouldn't go. Go on the block. Yeah.
- [215:30]
B
Because my only thing is, like, I just didn't like how she lied to his face. Because I'm like, if you're willing to lie to his face, you're willing to lie to mine. And that's why when I talked to her in the HOH room, because she was like, morgan, I'm really sorry. Like, I saw that you were upset, and I was like, ava, it's your hoh. Like, you're gonna do what you have to do at the end of the day. But what I didn't like was that you lied. I was like, I saw you look at him and say that. So that's where my discourse comes.
- [215:52]
A
At the time. Time, she was. She had. She thought she had made her mind up. And it was right after that that she talked to Mickey, which is why. Yeah.
- [215:59]
B
Why it changed. And so, like, was I upset about the. Noms. Like, yes. But I also was just like, this is a game. And like I said from the very beginning, I told people, like, you're gonna do what you want to do and I'm gonna adapt. I essentially told people how I was playing this game. Like, you guys are gonna do what you want to do. I'm gonna adapt. But that also means, like, I'm gonna see what you guys are doing and I'm gonna try to, like, you know, make y' all do what I kind of want to do. Um, but when I went into that conversation with her, it wasn't even to be like, I can't believe you did that. I was just like, yeah, this is actually the issue. Like, if you're going to lie to him, you're going to lie to me. So it's like, yes, I was upset that Zach was on the blog, but my whole mission on that actual conversation was to be like, this is actually my discourse with us. Sure, Zach's on the block, can't change that. But you lying to him makes me think that you're going to lie to me. That's what I was like. I did not like that. That was where I was like, ooh. Now I'm kind of looking at Ava as somebody to just keep in mind on, because if she's one easily swayed by either Will or Mickey or both, then. And she's willing to lie to people's faces, this is a player that is kind of dangerous because that means she's just easily impressionable from other players and could easily do what they want them to do. And, like, that's not good for me.
- [217:09]
A
Well, frankly, Morgan, was I manipulated on my hoh by Mickey. Yes. You know.
- [217:17]
B
I remember that conversation too. That was insane. She was like, well.
- [217:24]
A
Catherine wins the veto and there is a lot of. So there's a lot that happens here. There's. First of all, by this point, Ashley has told Rachel about one of the conversations that she had been satisfied in on where you guys were talking about. It was one of the many conversations you guys had about who are we bringing to jury? And this is. So this was another one of those things that like, became such a. A thing. And, and I, I was, I. It's always very annoying to the fans when people talk about, like, who we're bringing to the jury. But, like, genuinely, and I mentioned this at the time, there is something very valuable about, like, acting actively talking about who should be on a jury, because that. Especially a seven person jury. But what I said, what, what I did agree with is you probably shouldn't tell other people about it so much.
- [218:24]
B
Yeah. It's funny because I remember telling specifically, obviously, like, I talked to Triple Threat about that before Jimmy left. And I talked with the guys because I'm like, okay. They brought up wanting Lauren and jury. So then when we were talking about Rachel, for example, I was like, rachel is somebody good to work with. It's. She's good to have. She's this game. Like, she. Obviously, I pissed her off when I said it like this, but my intention was more so being, like, she deserves to be in jury, meaning, like, the jury phase. Like, she should not be a preacher is how I should have said it. I should have said she should not be a preacher because then that would have implied that, hey, if she ends up going to final two, then she's deserving of being there. My intention was like, rachel should not be a preacher. She is so intelligent, so great that if she does end up not making it to the final two chairs, you can rely on her being able to look at the game as the game game and not, you know, somebody who's never played this game before. So it was definitely.
- [219:13]
A
You ended up. You ended up taking all of the heat, and you were, I would say, by far the least sort of like, you had not. You were not really the perpetrator here because you. You really. I like, I am on. On your side here. You very much did. As silly as it sounds, you did talk about it more like a checkpoint. More like you wanted Rachel to get there. You did say that. Those things, but you. You did it in favor of Rachel. Whereas the way Mickey and especially like, Zach or Vince would talk about it was like, we want her to be the first person on the jury. We want her to be like, yeah. And so Ashley relayed the conversation that she was a part of, and obviously, when she's relaying that conversation, she's not like. So it's these people and not these people. But it's like they all had this conversation, and they were talking about planting you, the first person on the jury, thinking that you'll be like, a rational juror, because that's the way Mickey would talk about it. Right, Right.
- [220:16]
B
Yes. Thank you. Because my whole thing is, when Rachel brought that to me, I was like, first of all, I never had this plan of who goes first and who's. Like, I didn't. I just wanted you to reach the checkpoint, not be a preacher. However, it happens, because that's how I was playing. I wasn't planning who leaves when that was what Mickey was doing. So that's why when I heard. Heard that, I was like, okay, this is coming from Mickey. Like, that's why I wasn't surprised when I ended up on Rachel's block. I knew it was from Mickey because it's like I said, like, I took little things, little notes from different people and how they've talked. I was like, oh, my God. That's why I was, like, so frustrated, because it's like, it's really irritating when you see your allies kind of throw you under the bus and you're just like, bruh. Like, what are you doing? What is happening? So, yeah, yeah.
- [220:55]
A
And. And that's the thing, too, is that, like, you were certainly a part of those conversations in the same way that Ashley was in the one that she was. And she had. She said that to Rachel. She was like, yeah, I agreed with them because I want you then to take you to the jury. And I think that. I think that the same was true of you. The difference is, of course, that, like, Ashley is the one telling Rachel. So Rachel comes to this conversation with you thinking, here is one of the people who has been saying this. And. And to Rachel especially, it was, like, particularly insulting because she did not want to be on the jury, and she's.
- [221:28]
B
Won the game before, which I can completely empathize with. And that's what we kind of talked about in the stor.
- [221:33]
A
And she. Yeah, and she was, like, struggling because, like, she was missing her family. And it was like, if I'm not going to make it to the end, I don't want to be stuck in the jury, away from my family.
- [221:40]
B
Absolutely.
- [221:41]
A
So the fact that these people would talk about me as, like, a piece in their game to, like, bring to the jury so that I'll vote for them to win, like, joke's going to be on them. And so then you have this conversation in the storage room where. Storage room combo, where Rachel has been obviously wanting Vinnie out. And you are having this conversation to try to campaign for Vinnie to stand, to take you, Keanu out. And Rachel is, like, having none of that. And you start talking about, like, well, you know, we want Vince and Zach on the jury, right. And this. He's Rachel. And oh, they go.
- [222:18]
B
I remember. So my whole intent on talking. Talking to her in that storage room, because I saw her go in there, I knew we hadn't really talked since the Jimmy eviction. And, like, when she. When I saw how bothered she was, I'm also the kind of person to, like, give People's space. So I didn't want to just bombard her and be like, hey, so can we talk about this Jimmy thing? Because I just. Knowing Rachel, she was not the kind of person that would want it. Like, she needs some time to, like, cool off before she's able to have those conversations. And so that was our first time actually having, like, a game conversation since our prior. Like, since that prior week with Jimmy. And so I was like, okay, My mission going into this is obviously for her to see Vince as an extension of me. Like, someone that I can essentially have reins on and kind of make sure that he does what we want him to do. Because I was trying to angle it as, like, look, Vince values my opinion. He talks to me at the end of every day. Like, he really enjoys my strategy, all these things. And having someone like that in the house can work for our benefit more particularly like. Like, you know, mine, of course. But, like, having someone who's. Who could potentially win hohs and do what I would hope for them to do would be great. And Keanu, obviously, was just kind of, you know, throw. He was just a. He was like a ticking time bomb. You just never knew when he was going to explode. You never knew if you're. You know, you just didn't know with him. So I was trying my best to have him be seen as a target, especially because he had talked to me about wanting to get people to target Will, Ava, and Mickey, people that we were aligned with. But I didn't want to give Rachel those cards because we weren't on the best of terms. So I didn't want to potentially throw Keanu under the bus, have her go run back to Keanu, and then my ass is still in hot water and, like, even more boiling. But, yeah, I was not expecting her to explode. But you're right. Like, I did, as I would say in the Doctor, like, I took it to the chin because I'm like, okay, like, she's valid for these thoughts. Like, I don't think at one point was she, like, doing too much. Like, if I was her, I would feel some type of way about, like, oh, all you guys are just talking about how. How I'm just going to be this and that now. When she mentioned first a jury, that's when I was like, wait, what is she talking? Like, I never sat here and was like, rachel should be first a jury. I just wanted her not being a preacher. So that's when I was like, what are people talking about in this house? Because I never had her be the first person to jury. Like, that was never my intention. I didn't want her to be first. I wanted to work with her at least to, like, final six, you know, final five. I mean, you can't keep someone like Rachel that late in the game, but, like, first in the jury was definitely not what. What I wanted whatsoever. Yeah, it was crazy.
- [224:49]
A
She said, if you and your friends.
- [224:54]
B
If you and your friends want to take me out, you got nothing coming. Or whatever she said with an s. But here's the thing. So that was the perfect. Like, when she said friends with an S, I was like, oh, my God, this is the golden ticket that I needed. I needed something from Rachel that could give me something to get. Because that was after the punishment. That was after Zach had spent the whole night with her, and he was like, oh, Rachel and I were besties, and we're gonna work together. So when she said friends, I was like, perfect. Perfect. Guess what, Zach? She's actually not aligned with you because she said you and your friends have another thing coming, which means she's targeting us. Because the thing is, is I did not want, like. Like my melting pot, anyone who was really close to start going to other people. If they start going to other people, then my position in the game is going to get worse. So when he was really adamant about how great the conversation was with Rachel, I. I'm like, okay, no, that's not good, because she's targeting us. She's saying you and your friends with a. With a plural. And I'm like a Virgo, so I'm very literal. You tell me friends. I'm not saying friends is in Vinnie. I'm saying friends is in Vinnie and Zach.
- [225:54]
A
It was so funny. I mean, that whole hammock conversation is. Is hilarious. But just like, oh, my way that you kept, like, teasing, like, this big. This big deal. When I tell you. When I tell you what happened, I'm going to. It's going to blow. Blow your mind. And, like, the punchline was. She said friends.
- [226:15]
B
Yeah.
- [226:15]
A
And Zach was like, what? What do you mean?
- [226:17]
B
He's like, with an S. Hello, Multiple people. Friends. Hello, Plural. It means multiple. Doesn't mean just Vince. It means you do and you're getting milked. Just like, how? Because he was like, yeah, like, picking Rachel was all strategy. I'm like, oh, and you think that she's not going to use this to her strategy, too? Because at that time, Rachel was, I think, still trying to pick. Position herself in the best. Like, she was in a good position. But she wasn't as close with Zach. Like, she was still kind of working more people towards her. And I was like, oh, my God, like, Zach thinks this is going to be a huge move for him, which it could be, but it's actually going to be an even bigger move for Rachel. And Rachel and I weren't on the same page, so I'm like, oh, Rachel's gonna try to take my spot, like, try to get more people. Now I gotta make sure that he understands that, like, she is targeting us. Regardless whether or not you had a great conversation with her in that jail cell. She is still potentially. Now did I know if she was. Was. No, but, like, potentially targeting us?
- [227:11]
A
She was basically trying to. Because. Okay, so. So basically just to, I guess, set the. The picture here is that basically what was happening was Rachel and you and Mickey essentially started splitting the second Jimmy went on the block. And. And so she, you know, you were able. She was able to get Mickey on board enough. Or like Ashley was to get Mickey to get Ava to target. Target Zach and. And. And. And Vince. And Mickey was happy to have that happen because it was targeting your numbers, not hers, to whatever degree. But then as soon as it stopped happening, like, Mickey then kind of backtracked and was like, well, maybe now we'll target Keanu of those three. And Rachel was like, well, no, we're not targeting Keanu of those three. We're targeting either Zach or Vince, preferably Vince. And so her and Mickey started to split again, at which point Rachel. Rachel was like, what if I can pull Zach by letting him know that Mickey is the reason he's on the block and tried to make that play? And of course, it was essentially intercepted by. By you. And so this is sort of like where this schism is. Is happening and why the two of you are at odds. And you again, campaigning for both Vince and Zach to. To stay. And she again, was like, I believe also for extra context, right before that storage room conversation, she was literally, like, in the living room talking to Will about how people were saying that they would. That she would be first injury.
- [228:45]
B
I remember them having a deep combo. Yeah. Now, one thing I will say too is, like, I think one of the. The things that I was like, oh, my God, Morgan, like, you gotta. Like I said, like, this was the. This was the week where I learned, like, okay, Morgan, like, you're good with composure, but you're kind of losing it bit.
- [228:59]
A
A little.
- [228:59]
B
Little bit. Because when I found out or had that gut intuition that Mickey was behind the nominations when we were in the. In the gym, I was firing the boys up. I'm like, you know what if Mickey wants to come for us? Like. Like, let's go. Like. And then I was like, morgan, relax. Like, calm down. Like, Mickey's an ally. She's your final two. Like, I know you're pissed right now, but, like, let's not act emotionally, because this could be a really bad move if you really get these guys fired up because they're already not necessarily on your side. They're still kind of playing the middle. If you fire them up, up too much, everything could blow up in the face. Like, I don't know if I would have. You know what I mean? I was just like. So I remember that morning I went to both of them, and I was like, hey, I talked to Mickey. Like, I did. Like, she definitely was not part of it. Like, and I just did whatever I could to make them think that, like, she was not part of getting Zack up on that block. Even though I knew my gut was just, like, it was Mickey. Because it didn't make sense if it was anybody else. Which was also why I was, like, concerned about Rachel targeting them. Because I'm like, if I also fan this flame, then they're not only going to come for. For Mickey. Like, Rachel's coming for me. It was just. It was the first time that I felt like everyone's kind of all over the place, and I. Like, there was no calm anything. Everyone was ever there. Because that was also the same week that we found out that Rachel went to Keanu and told Keanu about the heavy hitters and excluded her name. And that was also something that I use. I was like, okay, perfect, Zach, if you really think she's wanting to work with you, then why is she throwing the heavy hitters under the bus and excluding herself when. To be fair, that alliance died week one. That doesn't even make any sense to bring up anymore because it doesn't even exist. But I understand why she was doing.
- [230:35]
A
One of Rachel's many attempts at trying to. To finally get Keanu to open his eyes about Vince. Like, Vince was a part of this alliance. Yeah, of course he went straight to Vince about it.
- [230:45]
B
Yes, I went straight to Vince. I was like, like or no? Oh, yeah, he went straight to Vince.
- [230:50]
A
He went straight to Vince, who then went to. He. I believe he went to Mickey first and then. Because he. He was trying to make sure Mickey stayed on his side that week. But then he did eventually tell you.
- [231:01]
B
To, I think, because at least to My knowledge. He came to me and I told him. I was like, you need to tell Mickey this. Like, you need to gain favor with her. You need to tell Mickey about this or maybe.
- [231:10]
A
No, I think you're right. I think you're right. Yeah, Yeah, I think he know. I think he did go to you first. Yeah, I remember him talking to Mickey because that was an impactful conversation.
- [231:20]
B
Yeah. Because I told him. I was like, look, Vince, I, like, was like, I cannot keep being like this, Mendy. Because I knew, obviously in my head, I knew she was targeting them. I knew that they kind of thought about her. But I'm like, if this melting pot is going to, like, it's like kind of like if we're going to Kumbaya for a little bit, then you guys need to kind of hash it out. So that's why I was like, you need to talk to him. Plus, I was going to work that week to save both Zach and Vince. So I'm like, okay, Vince, you do your work with Mickey. I'm going to work on Zach. Because this guy is, like, blinded by obviously Rachel's strategy and gameplay that she. That he really thinks that, like, Rachel is not going to target us, which maybe she wasn't. But I still needed to use the terms and the words that she said, especially her planting the heavy hitters. I wasn't in it. I was like, zach needs to know this because if he does survive, we need numbers to potentially go after Rachel. Because if she, like, at that time, I genuinely thought she was coming for me. So I was like, damn, I didn't want to come for Rachel. I really did not. And I was trying my hardest to mend relationships around her and potentially mend mine with her. Her. But I. There was just still all this pushback, and that's what I was trying to figure out that week was like, where is this pushback coming from? Like, I get your pissed off about Jimmy, I get your pissed off about this jury stuff, but what does that have anything to do with me and you? Like, I'm sitting there and I'm telling you, like, you're right, I apologize. Like, why am I still getting pushed back? So that was like, kind of where my mind was at that week was trying to figure out one, how to save the guys and to. How to build. Rebuild my relationship with Rachel Zachary.
- [232:39]
A
The. The other thing about that hammock conversation, famous update moment was that you also talked to him about Ashley.
- [232:50]
B
Oh, yes.
- [232:51]
A
But you do not say Ashley's name at first. You. You bring Ashley as. Who are you talking about? You said, Zach, you talk to her all the time.
- [233:02]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [233:03]
A
Who?
- [233:04]
B
I talk to her all the time. I was not gonna tell him because I did not want Ashley. Ashley to think that I was, like, purposely going because I was. My intention with Ashley was never to throw her under the bus. Like, there was never a time in the. In the house. And I think everyone can see that where I ever was gonna throw under the bus. If anything, I was just, like, trying to keep Ashley as a number and trying to get other people to see that, like, she's just not a big, big threat at this time. Like, I. But I recognized her as, like, a great social player, and she was on my side of things. So I was like, I don't. You know, this targeting Ashley.
- [233:34]
A
What are we doing?
- [233:35]
B
Like, we don't need that. But I think that was also something where throughout that week, Zach was very confident that he was staying. He hadn't. He honestly thought he had the numbers, and he was going around, like, no problem. And I'm like, first of all, like, I get you might have the numbers, but your other allies on the block and the whole point, especially with this blockbuster, is to save both of you. So if you're acting like you don't have a problem with votes and you're going to stay here regardless, like, you might want to be careful, because people are going to see that. And I think people started climbing, talking that, like, Zach was never going to go up on the block again, especially if he now mended things with Rachel and was building, rebuilding things with other people. And I also didn't trust him. That was the first week that I didn't trust him because I was going to bat. I was literally campaigning in, like, a non. Like, oh, let's keep Zach and Vince. I never was like, hey, so we're keeping Zach and Vince. It was more of like, hey, this is what Keanu's doing. Like, I kind of made it to where Keanu was trying to form this alliance. He's. Because I talked to Ava about that. I talked to Mickey, and I knew Mickey would start telling me, telling other people. So I was doing my best to do that. But that was, like, the first time, I think, in Zach and I's, like, game relationship where he could understand that I was kind of upset that, like, he was just not seeing me as an alliance member, like, really going to bat for him. Because the other thing for me is, like, if I'm in this game and I'm fighting for my allies, Potentially wanting to use vetoes on them and like protecting them. Like, I want people to do that for me as, as well. Now obviously I didn't know about his veto thing at this time, but I'm thinking, you know, like, oh, he's just no care in the world. He's going to survive the week. So that, that hammock portion was really important because that was when I had learned that not only was he talking about me to Ashley, but kind of like it was just like this weird triangle of all of us were talking about each other and we couldn't figure out where it was stemming from. And so that's when I don't know if it showed. Like when I went into the. Because I talked to Ashley on the bench by the pool where I kind of the same thing with her. I was like, yeah, so I learned about this, this and this. And she's like, who said that? She obviously knew who I was talking about because who else had told her that? And I was like, oh, I, you know, I don't want to name any names or whatever. Then you see the hammock portion with Zach and then that's when I go into the wine room and that's, I'm like, okay, it's clear as day that like there's a little discourse here. Let's squash this. Because you have a problem with her morning, I believe.
- [235:48]
A
Yeah, you have that. It's a very consequential conversation that.
- [235:53]
B
Yeah.
- [235:53]
A
That you, Zach and Ash. Ashley have. And obviously Zach ends up leaving this week. But then this is really like the moment that I saw at least that like really kick started your actual relationship.
- [236:07]
B
No, for sure. Week five was where my relationship with Ashley was something that I started to really value. Even just like on a personal level. Like I really enjoyed her because obviously like there was things prior like caught like comments and things and I was just like, oh, this is like annoying. It's kind of rude and things like that. But I was like, whatever, we're in a game, I'm like gonna get over it. But having that conversation and having us all kind of just be honest about it was what I valued in, in Ashley. Because it's like, sure, can she say things that can be a little off putting where you're like, damn, Ashley. Like, that was not like nice to say. At the end of the day she was still honest with me. And that was like, that's what I took out of it. I'm like, it's bigger. It's, it's about the, you know, Perspective of things. It's about the point. Not just, like, the little bitty, like, pretty details. So when we were able to kind of talk about that in school, squash, I guess you can say squash, because I never really had, like, an actual problem. I just never knew why I was hearing that my name was still being talked about by other people. That was definitely.
- [236:59]
A
When just. Are you referring to. Because, like, Ashley was definitely poking at the, like, the crush on Zach kind of.
- [237:07]
B
Yeah, and like, the things like that. Yeah, and, like, other things of, like, I remember there was a time when Will was trying to, like, express his feelings about leaving the house because he was just continuously nominated. He really wanted to go home. And, like, when he was speaking on that, like, I know Ashley was kind of, like, interrupting quite a bit. I remember telling her, like, ashley, can you, Like, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I was just like, hey, can you not interrupt? Or whatever? And I kind of, like, jabbed at her a little bit, and then she kind of jabbed at me, and it was just kind of like. To me, it was just one of those things. Like, we see two sisters kind of argue, and then you're like, okay, you get over it. And, like, that's like, I totally got over it. I don't know if she did, but it was just like, little moments like that where I'm like, okay, Ashley's just someone where, like, she makes say something, you know, annoying, or she may be a little inconsiderate, but it's not end all, be all. It is what it is. Like, we're playing a game. Let's focus in on the game. So, like, that conversation in that wine room where it was not only about, like, just people talking about, like, you know, Ashley saying things about Zach, Zach saying things about Ashley, or, like. Or it was really. Ashley was saying things about me to Zach. Zach was saying things about Ashley to me, and it was just like, this triangle of bullshit. And so I was like, let's just squash it, all right? Like, we're playing a game here. We want to. To make it to the end. We want to make it far. And so that. That's when, like, you see me giving advice to Ashley because Ashley's like, I don't know, like, you know what to do or whatever. And I was like, well, a lot of people are concerned about your closeness with Rachel. Like, she's like, yeah, I know. I want to, like, really kind of distance myself from Rachel, whether she was or wasn't going to. I know what I saw In Ashley then was like, she wanted to work with more people because a lot of people were very much like, ashley this, Ashley that. Like, we want Ashley gone. And I was, like, always trying to make sure that she wouldn't leave the damn house, you know? But I think the only thing in that conversation was, like, it might have been, like, too little too late for Zach. And I only say that because I think by then Keanu had done his own work. I mean, he was a great butler. He was hilarious. His social game got a little bit better. I mean, like, I don't think his reads got any better, but, like, he was still a very good social player that week. I think people thought Vinnie was funny and his egg. And Zach only really got that, like, one night with Rachel and then all of that and, like, trying to get votes. I mean, there was a lot of people that just didn't care for Zach. And that might have stemmed from Keanu's dislike as far as, like, his game perspective from the Adrian belt, because that's what I learned from. From Keanu. Like, Zach, he was so pissed about, you know, not wanting to, like, break the tiebreaker with Lauren and Catherine didn't like Zach. And it was all these things where I was like, when. I think when Zach started to realize he didn't have the votes, that's when we really started kind of stuff, seeing, like, this snowball effect of like, a crash out, if you will.
- [239:42]
A
Well, yeah. So you. You have that conversation with Ashley and Zach, and I believe that was the morning of the veto ceremony. And then. And in that conversation, too, Ashley's telling Zach, like, yeah, I think it's 50 50. And still he decides he's not going to use this veto. He claims that this is because he did not want you to go on the block. You would have been the replacement. There was a time when we were right. Yeah. And there was a time when we were talking about it where it was like there was consideration because, sorry, I forgot to mention this, but right after. Right after your argument with Rachel and storage room, she pulls Catherine and says, hey, by the way, Morgan just said that she. That you. You and Ryan highly are a target of hers. And Catherine was.
- [240:36]
B
Yeah.
- [240:37]
A
And was, like, ready to use the veto to get you on the block and, like, talks to Ava about it. And Ava, remember, was also ready to get the veto used, but Ava was, like, really tired and napping. And so then when they had the conversation, it was just kind of like, do.
- [240:54]
B
Yeah.
- [240:55]
A
Should we. Nah, it's fine. But, like, if she had used it then would have been on. On Vince, very likely. And then Zach. And so you would have gone up and then Zach would have probably also used his veto.
- [241:12]
B
Yeah.
- [241:13]
A
And then it was like, who. Who goes over that? That's what. That's the world I was living in for a while. But so Catherine doesn't end up using hers. Zach chooses not to use his. He says it's to prevent you from going. Going on the block. There is some credence to this in terms of the way that things were being talked about. He had mentioned potentially using the veto on. On Vince. There were a lot of conversations with you about, like, you know, working for the team and like, you know, trying to prevent each other from going on the block, trying to keep everyone safe as possible. The other, you know, theory is he didn't want to give Ava $10,000. He was pretty pissed. I don't know what theory you have at this point if you believe in the game.
- [241:58]
B
The only thing that I can obviously attest to, like, in the game was him not wanting to use it. So I wasn't in trouble because that's what he told me after. He never mentioned that he didn't want, like, the $10,000 to be used for on Ava. I mean, if. If that is the truth, then, like, I, I don't as far as, like, in the house, because I'm trying to think of, like, what I knew in the game because that's what we're like, kind of like basing it off of. It was just the fact that he was like, I did not want you to be renowned. Because I remember he asked me, he's like, are you sure you'll be a renom? And I like, was like, yes. Because Ava said that Kelly was off limits, that she loved Lauren and loved Catherine. Who else is going to be the nominee? Oh, and Riley. So I'm like, who else? She's not going to put up Mickey. She's not going to put up Ashley. Your girl's going to be the one. I like, I just knew it was going to be me.
- [242:39]
A
Yeah, I. I feel like if she had had to make two renams, it would have been you and Ashley.
- [242:45]
B
I think so, too, probably. I was just thinking when you said that, I was like, because I was like, she wouldn't. Because I knew her off. People have been insane. It would have been crazy. That would have been absolutely wild.
- [242:55]
A
All right, so. So Zach, of course, does not use it. He eventually tells you about the power. And it does. It does seem to briefly Change your mind about who you're going to evict. You do seem to jump on to the idea of, I think we need to keep Zach. You and Mickey kind of go back and forth about it a few times, though. You do end up Mickey especially, going kind of go. Goes back and forth. She ends up coming to the conclusion that she would like to keep Vince around because she's getting more and more frustrated with. With Rachel and she wants Vince to be there because she knows Rachel's coming for Vince and Rachel's not coming for Zach. You, of course, were always a bit closer to Vince anyway, so, you know, the vote does end up falling in that direction.
- [243:41]
B
I was briefly entertaining. Oh, sorry. No, I was saying I was just briefly entertaining it because it's like when you have someone that's going to sit there and tell you, like, hey, I actually had a power of veto I could have used and I'm not using it to save you. I remember telling myself, like, maybe I said in the doctor, but I was. Or I think I said it to him. I was like, the least I could do is give you a vote. Like, you're gonna save me. The least I can do is save you. But then it's also like, at the same time, I just knew that my closeness out of, like, the trio was to Vince, and if I had to pick somebody to lose, it was never going to be Vince. It was always going to be Zach every single time. And, like, I know when I was.
- [244:15]
A
I love. I love the coldness of it.
- [244:18]
B
Yeah, it's amazing. Like, I don't know. It's just like, I personally would have used the veto because it's a veto. You always got to use the veto. It's kind of like somebody like you.
- [244:26]
A
They didn't use a veto. They deserve to go, I don't even care if you're my best friend. What are you talking about?
- [244:31]
B
It's crazy. And it's like, for that. No, for sure. It's like what they say on Survivor. Like, you never leave with an idol. Like, you just don't. So I know after that, that's why I was working even harder to try to save him because I'm like, damn. Like, I. I want to keep Vince. I'm going to tell Rachel and other people that I'm going to keep Zach because when Zach told me that they had a great conversation and Rachel really wants him, I'm like, okay, maybe I can earn favor with Rachel by saying, you know what? I'm actually leaning towards keeping Zach. You Know, I never said I am keeping Zach. I just said I was really leaning towards keeping Zach. And I was like, I don't know if this is going to work, but maybe she'll believe me. Like, so I was trying to think of my main thing that week was obviously trying to save the boys, but, like, wanting to start rebuilding my relationship with Rachel, because Rachel was a very, very, like, pivotal person for me, and I really adored her as a. As a person and as a game player. And I was like, okay. Like, that was like, my. My hard assignment to myself was like, morgan, you got to figure out how to mend things with Rachel. One way or another, it's gonna work out. I believed it was gonna work out. How you're gonna do it. I don't know, girl. Good luck. Get as much information as you can and just go to work. And so that's why I knew to keep things. And I think the interesting thing is I don't know what people had thought, but I know that week, Mickey was like, hey, I have a lot of influence. Like, people will just do what I want. And I was like, oh, well, this is great for me. And I was like. So I. I don't know what people thought, but I truly feel like if I had said, you know what? I actually want to keep Zach, Zach would have stayed, but because I was very adamant about keeping Vince. And also, like, one thing I kind of used was like, hey, Vince is a target. Zach's not a target. And. And, like, when I told Zach the reason why I didn't want to tell Mickey the power is because I wanted Zach. Zach to do it, because I'm like, oh, God, like, if he ends up staying and finds out I told Mickey, now he's coming for me, that could piss off Ben. Like, I could end up getting more. More enemies. So I was trying to convince him, like, hey, I think Mickey would. Would feel better if you told her, because, you know, this is the alliance. She's kind of been brought in on our third. She can feel more involved, like. And not feel like I'm telling her, because that was one of her biggest complaints was, like, I always told her the information, and. And they never came to her. And I'm like, well, we're also up at 2am you're asleep. And two, they trust me more than you. But I was trying my best to, like, mend that, really, like, garner more of a relationship for them. And so that's when he told her. And that's why after I had lied to Mickey being Like, oh, girl, I was going to tell you regardless. Like, I was not going to tell her if he did not tell her. But that was a good strategy point for us, because when we were using the M and Ms, that was when we started to see, like, who was actually going to target Zach, who was actually going to put him up on the block. Because that veto was only worth it if he was up. Up on the block. So there was three more weeks left until jury. He was never going to touch the block again. So that power was going to be useless. Mickey was not a fan about him making it to the jury phase, even with $10,000. So she was like, personally, I'd rather keep Ben. So I was like, well, perfect. So so would I. So, like, it worked out perfectly that week. I mean, I would have liked Keanu to go that week, obviously, because it would have been great. But in hindsight, I actually think it was better that Zach left because I think I actually preferred Keanu now that I look back. Like, everything happened the way it's supposed to, and I was happy to see. See that. Well, he was always going to be a target, you know?
- [247:35]
A
Yes. And Zach does leave. Rachel wins the hoh.
- [247:40]
B
And I was so close.
- [247:44]
A
This. You were very close. This was. This is wild, too, because, like, Mickey had spent the. The last, like, two days, like, holding one on ones, prepping everyone to target Rachel, and then Rachel wins out on this hoh. And it did. It was wild that it came down to you and her.
- [248:05]
B
I know. I loved that. That HOH comp, by the way, like, that.
- [248:08]
A
That was one of the best ones.
- [248:09]
B
It was so fun. I had the best time. I was actually, like. We were in between, like, filming each segment and stuff. I was, like, smiling because I was like, first of all, I did not know how I was gonna do in that. I'm really good with memory, but there was so much in those rooms. I'm like, what are they gonna, like, ask? Like, there's just so much to take in. And as each rounds were getting eliminated and I'm making it through, I'm like, okay, I'm doing this. Like, hell, yeah, morgue. Like, first mental comp. Like, you're killing it. And then I see I'm with Kelly and Rachel, and I'm like, oh, wow. Like, Kelly is like a mental queen. So I started feeling even better about my confidence in mental competitions because I knew I was gonna do well in physical ones. I just. Just wasn't sure, like, how I was going to do in mental competitions. And then it was, like, back and forth with Rachel and I. And I remember when we were in the tie, and I looked at her, and I remember she was, like, telling me. She's like, please, Morgan. Like, I really want to see my family. And I look down, and there's blocks. So I start counting the blocks. I'm like, okay, maybe they're gonna ask about blocks. And then, like, the next round starts, and I get it wrong. And I remember, like, after, obviously, like, they filmed me screaming and everything. Like, I could hear her crying. I don't know if they showed this, but, like, I went over there and, like, hugged her. Her, because it's like, at the end of the day, we're in a game. I knew that she wanted to see her family. That's all she talked about. I'm like, okay, cool. We're going against each other. But, like, I want to be there for her, you know, tell her how proud I am that, like, she's able to see her family. Like, that was just kind of one of those moments where I'm like, okay, I'm putting the game aside. Like, I'm happy for Rachel as a person. Like, I love her. She won fair and square. And I was so close to picking the garage. I want to know how many rounds we would have went if I picked the garage. I think it might have been a tiebreaker, but, yeah. And I think that was something that, while it was hot, like, I won't say hard for me to lose. I was more so bummed because I was like, dang. It was kind of like how I felt on that killer carnival balance beam hoh where, like, I knew I had, like, majority of the house on my back to try to win that, because a lot of people wanted Rachel gone at that point. And I was like, if I don't win this, my ass is going. I knew I was going up on block. Like, I knew if I did not win, I was going up the block. She knew if she didn't win, she. It was just of kind of, like, a mutual thing. But that was, like, a really pivotal week, I believe, for mine and Rachel's relationship and the judges.
- [250:14]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [250:15]
B
Oh. So while I was, like, on the block with Rachel, I honestly feel like, because it's funny, and I. And I talked to Rachel about this, like, after the show, but I was like, I tried to talk to you, like, two times. You did not want to talk to me. And I wasn't sure if it was because of Mickey or if it was because of somebody else who was Basically trying to, to tell her like, no, don't talk to Morgan. But there was multiple times, remember, Keanu kept being like, hey, you know, because Keanu was notorious for if he was in a one on one and he tried to interrupt him, he was like, not yet. Like, I'm not ready yet. So I tried my hardest to talk to her before the nominations, but I didn't want to push too hard because I knew Rachel was somebody who obviously was somebody who knew what she wanted to do. There was a chance that I couldn't talk myself off the block, but I just wanted to have like a general conversation with her because after everything is filmed and while we're waiting, before we go back into the house, like, we can't speak to each other. So I just, we didn't get to have that talk of like, hey, like, can we talk about like kind of the discourse that's going on right now between us? So when I tried multiple times to talk to her just like in an easy way of just like knocking or just kind of being around where she could see like, okay, Morgan's probably wanting to talk and she didn't, I was like, okay, I'm going to take this to the chin. I'm going to see my name on the memory wall. Which is why you probably don't see that I was surprised because I was not. But after the nominations, I'm going to pull her, like, I'm going to be like, hey, Rachel, can we talk?
- [251:28]
A
So yeah. And that was an important conversation. And the thing too is that like, she didn't want to put you or Mickey on the block. She really wanted to put up like Vince and, you know, like Riley. But she felt like she had to deal with you and Mickey primarily because of what was, what Mickey was doing. But obviously you were, you were right there with Mickey. It was actually like Ashley has a conversation with her earlier early on where Ashley is trying to pitch Riley. She wants Riley gone that week and she says Riley has to go. And Rachel is kind of like, yeah, but I have, you know, I've got to deal with these other people and like, you know, who would Riley even leave against? And Ashley's like, the only person Riley leaves against is Morgan because that's the only way to get Vinnie's vote and, and like, that's the only way you can maybe get Ava's vote and, and all that. And so she pitches that, but Rachel doesn't bite because she has to deal with you and Mickey. She feels like she has to, to play with Vince and Morgue Vincent and. And Catherine, or, sorry, Riley and Catherine, she feels like just to play with them and target you and Mickey to some degree, but she really doesn't want to. And so she almost backs up out of it and then ultimately decides that she has to. She has to follow through with it. Then she, as you mentioned, has this conversation with you right after. She also has one with Mickey, but it's less effective. I would say. The thing with Mickey is that every time they. It felt like they were getting somewhere, Rachel, they would. They would. It would come back to the Jimmy decision. And Mickey could not back away from the idea that the Jimmy decision was the correct decision and that Jimmy was bad. And Rachel knew that wasn't true because she knew she had talked with Jimmy about all of this. And so the fact that Mickey wouldn't back down about that, and I talked to Rachel about this in her deep dive, she was like, that really was the thing that was holding me back. I'm, like, reconnecting. Your conversation with Rachel, I would say, was more effective. You also, by this point, had Ashley pulling for you because of the conversation with. You'd had with her the week before. She did feel like she could work with you, and crucially, she felt like you could control Vince and that if they could get you on board, then they could get Vince too, and that would be huge. And so you have Ashley working for you. You are doing this work with Rachel to try to get back in with her, and this is, like, so key to your game because it's a very, very dangerous week, obviously. And you. You have the worst possible case scenario happen. Literally, Mickey wins this veto or. Sorry, Lauren wins this veto.
- [254:22]
B
Yeah.
- [254:23]
A
And it's. It's very dangerous.
- [254:28]
B
It's very dangerous. I was gonna say, I remember when I had that conversation with Rachel because I actually obviously, like. And you can correct me and, like, as far as, like, the timeline and stuff, but I remember my initial, like, intention on going into this conversation with Rachel was, like, I said to be, like, very open, very honest, because I do love Rachel. Like, I love her down. I'm so happy that we are friends outside this house. And I was just like, if I'm gonna leave this house this week, I want to make sure that I'm leaving with at least friends. Like, a friend who knows that, like, on the outside of this house, we can be friends. So when I went and talked to her, we just had, like, real conversation. We were talking normally as far as, like, girl stuff, not, like, girl girl stuff, but Just more of, like, we were talking normally in a sense of, like, she was like, well, I heard that you wanted me on your block. And I was like, I do. Like, I just. I was honest with her. I'm like, what do I have to lose? I'm on the block already. Like, could this damage my game? Could she try to campaign against me? Sure. But, like, I think. And after, like, working with Rachel in the first couple of weeks and hearing how she was, like, a loyal player, like, for her game, I was like, if she can at least recognize that I'm very similar as far as, like, loyalty, loyal and honest, and, like, I think that will allow her to view me in a way of potentially working with me again. Because I knew how Mickey was like. And I wasn't campaigning against Mickey, but I knew how Mickey would, like, essentially campaign. She was very, like. Like a bull. Like, very, like, hard, pushy, pushy, pushy. Like, you need to do this. I had learned that from, like, her, like, one on one with Lauren. She was very like, you need to do this, versus, like, hey, let's look at the pros and cons, because I feel like that was something that I did really, really good with, was be very neutral, like, come off very neutral. And, like, let's go over pros and cons.
- [256:05]
A
I would say, like, the major difference between you and Mickey and your approaches to Rachel were that you were very straightforward and honest, and you were just like, yeah, I was coming for you. This is what I was hearing. And I think also crucially, like, you were. You did. You didn't. You didn't protect Mickey in the conversation. You were very much, like, will willing to let her go. And this was also a turning point for you with Mickey where, you know, you kind of spent the week being like, you know what? I think it's time to let go of that relationship to. To some degree.
- [256:40]
B
Yeah, that was, like. Because I had started hearing from other people that she was telling people not to trust me. And I'm like, okay, this is where it's coming from. You know, like, it's coming from literally my duo. And that was when I was like, okay, that's when Vince became my number one in the game, was after he survived week five, and I started hearing this. I was like, okay, like, I'm no longer going to protect you. I'm no longer riding this to the end, because, like I said, I'm very loyal. Once you, like, kind of cross and try to, like, I just can't do it anymore because it's like, then I feel like it's going to be too much or I'm going to make the wrong move. And it's like, I don't want to have to sit there and mentally think, oh, are you continuously telling people not to trust me? Or whatever? And granted, like, could Vince or other people have done the same thing? Yes. But the difference between them and Mickey was like, I found out. I found out that Mickey was talking about me. So it's like, in that alone, it's like, I'm just not going to deal with that. But I knew that the way she would talk to people was very pushy, like I said, and I was just going in as myself. I was like, you know what, Rachel? Like, yeah. Now, when I had mentioned earlier how, like, Mickey mirrors, I think that's also what got me in trouble necessarily when it came to Rachel, because Mickey in the wine room. Sorry, not wine room. In the train room with Will Ashley, me. She was very adamant because after I told her about the storage room thing, I was more so venting, being like, hey, like, Rachel kind of came at me. I don't know what's going on with her, but, like, something's not adding up because I did not think she'd be this upset. And even when I went to the gym, like, I just didn't feel right with her. So I told Mickey about it, and I think when Mickey would start being like, yeah, well, Rachel, Rachel, Rachel. I'm like, no, you're absolutely right. Rachel, Rachel, Rachel. It's like, did I really want Rachel to go? No. But, like, if Rachel was coming after me, I also was not just going to be like, okay, like, no big deal. Like, I was obviously going to have. Have to make a move. But I think that hoh conversation, like I was initially saying, was just really helpful for our relationship. And I think had I lied to her because she knew. She knew I had said that I wanted her up because obviously she had heard from other people and I didn't know that she knew. But because I had already been privy to having allies throw me under the bus and enemies, I was like, there's a very high chance that she knows I have said her name and the block in the the same sentence, so I'm just going to own up to it. And. And even if she never found out, it's the fact that I was honest about it. And I think that was like the seed of the judges. And I say that because if she thought I lied to her, she would never have worked with me. I had Talked to. I had talked with her about this after the show and she, like, confirmed that, like, my honesty was the reason why she trusted me again, because it's like, you know, I essentially told her, like, yeah, Rachel, I'm gonna put you up.
- [259:08]
A
Like, who.
- [259:09]
B
Who is? I remember leaving that. That hohm. After that conversation. Conversation. And I was like, oh, my God. I just told her to her face that I want to put her on the block. Like, I mean, it's the correct thing to do.
- [259:19]
A
No, I mean, like, like she had already put you up, right? Like, yeah, she already has an idea of you that is somebody that needs to be on the block. And so, you know, you might as well own up to it, especially because the truth for you wasn't as damning as it might have been for other people because you weren't the driver of it. And so, you know, being able to be honest and not be the driver of it is very useful. And it did, it did open this door for the. The judges to come into play.
- [259:54]
B
Yeah.
- [259:55]
A
Which of course happens a little bit later. You do have first a conversation with Lauren, which was another one of my favorite.
- [260:02]
B
Oh yeah.
- [260:03]
A
Campaign conversations. Can we talk about this once again? You really hyped up this big. This big thing for Lauren. You're like, I've got something to tell you. It's going to be really big and emotional.
- [260:18]
B
So big and emotional. Girl, he had a power shoes.
- [260:21]
A
Get ready to cry. And you tell her. And she's like, wow. Yeah.
- [260:28]
B
She was just like, wow. And I was like, okay, so let's get on. Like, and this is what I'm like, okay, so this is what we're going to do. So basically, basically. And I'm just like, okay, Morgan, get to work. Like, she doesn't care about this damn power. She, like, doesn't care about anything about, like what you're saying. That's fine. Get to work. And so that was the other thing that I would say, I think was like a huge move and something that I would have mentioned in my final speech when I knew because obviously optic wise keeping Vince or like using the Beatle on Vince was much more like perceptually acceptable for Lauren than using anyone else. Could she have used it on me perhaps? Because people had already been like, they're a four. Like four of them. Like, they're all like four working together. Like her, Zach, Vince and Lauren. But I was like, definitely more so Vince. I mean, we kind of laughed because I remember she was like, yeah, Mickey was saying that, like, it made more sense for me to use it on her. And even I, like, laughed with Lauren kind of being like, what? I'm sorry. If I was not on the block and saw you use it on Nikki, I'd be like, what the hell is happening in this house? Because it just didn't make sense. So I feel like for me, one thing I was going to use was the fact that, like, when I realized that the cards were not in my favor to either get a veto use on me, obviously, for the. This first time was, like, me actually campaigning for the veto to be used on Vince. I'm like, as long as the veto gets used, this can be a very successful week. So it's like, I took my feelings aside. I obviously, like, that was the first time being on the block. It is emotional when you're on the block for the first time because it means that you could potentially leave, especially being pre jury. I was like, no, I'm trying to win this game. So I was like, okay, Morgan, wipe up the tears. Lock it in. Get like, you're strategizing out. Let's talk about this. And I essentially campaigned on why it should be used for events. And I think that was really.
- [262:04]
A
You started. You started with like. Like, use it on, like. Like, you started with, like, right, like, Zach would want you to use it on me. Like, right, like Zach.
- [262:13]
B
I said. I said the. Like, I was like, the way our alliance works is like. Or where. How we were working was like, we would use it on each other. We would protect each other. Vince has the votes no matter what. I do not. So. And I. What I said to her was Zach wanted you to go to jury, so the least I can do for him is to make sure you get there. So I was like, well, however it's going to take. I was like, you obviously see value in Vince. That's. That's my guy. So let's. Let's get Vince off this block, girl. Let's get him off the block. Let's.
- [262:40]
A
From my perspective, it was. It was kind of like, like, she made it kind of clear that, like, if it was going to be used, it would be on Vince. And that was like your second best option, essentially.
- [262:49]
B
Yeah. And she was a little nervous that first one, she told me, because, like, she was like, oh, she's like, I'm thinking of using it, like, on Vince. And I was like, yes, yes, yes. Vince is great. Let's use it on Vince. And, like, I enjoyed that conversation with. With her because, like, I don't know, like, I know a Lot of people, like, obviously, like, we'll eventually talk about this, like, like the discourse between Lauren and I. But, like, at that moment in time, I did want to work with her, and I just needed her to see, like, okay, I'm willing to literally not even campaign for myself anymore and campaign for. To use this on Vince because he's the best option for you. This is best for your game personally. So, like, let's do that. And I think that, to me, even as a game player, is huge, because it's like, I'm willing to literally stop campaigning, campaigning for myself and campaign for the bigger picture, which is getting Vince off, which is a vote for me. So it's like, as long as this veto gets used on Vince, I'm happy.
- [263:37]
A
Yeah. So of course it does end up being used on Vince. There's a lot of back and forth here and a lot of drama.
- [263:45]
B
God, that was the most stressful veto, pre veto ceremony I think any of us have ever experienced. I mean, down to, like, Rachel catching, like, Vince, Lauren and I talking, which, by the way, it was just Vince and I chatting. Lauren comes in, catches us. Then Rachel comes in and was just like, well, well, what do we have here? And I was like, I just thought this was like, oh, my God. I did all this, like, damage control with Rachel, and now she thinks I'm scheming. I was like, please, Rachel, no. Like, oh, my God. It was nuts.
- [264:10]
A
Basically, Lauren had told Rachel that she was leaning toward not using it and then spent time talking to people. Vince was wearing her down. And then event. And then, like, later that night, she came back and she was like, actually, I'm. I'm thinking I will use it. And so immediately Rachel's like, okay, I've seen Vince talking to her all day. Like, Vince has been pressuring her to use this. And the way, of course, that Lauren talks, it's like, you know, so I. I think maybe I might use it now. And so, like, Rachel's just like, okay, who's. Who's pressuring her to do this? And then right after that conversation, she walks downstairs and she see two of you with Lauren, and she's like, oh, my God, like, they're pressuring her into doing this. They changed her mind because she. Because in Rachel's mind, and. And this was true. Like, Lauren didn't want to use it. Her initial idea was to not use it. And so she's been convinced otherwise. And then. So she got really upset about that. Ashley, of course, got involved. She's like, Lauren goes to Ashley and she's like, what do I do? And Ashley's like, I think you should use it.
- [265:26]
B
Yeah.
- [265:27]
A
And then goes to Rachel and is like, I don't know. I, I don't think there's anything that can be said. I think she's just. And because she knows at that point she's still, she's pitching like Riley is, is. Is the option here. And so then the following morning, Lauren goes up there. It's a whole scene. It's very funny.
- [265:51]
B
Even right before, like, right before she even looks at us and is like, I don't know. And I'm looking at Vince and he's looking at me. I'm like, bro, what is going to happen? Because she literally was indecisive up until that point.
- [266:00]
A
And she, she denies this later, but Rachel told her straight up, if you use it, I'm putting Riley up. And she goes down to Vince and Vince is like, she's bluffing. She's bluffing. And she goes back up and she's like, she's putting on moisturizer. Five minutes of putting on moisturizer, saying before she goes, I. I think I'm gonna use it. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's a whole wild scene. Of course the veto gets used. Riley gets blindsided. Lauren initially denies knowing it was Riley, but later confesses to both Catherine and Riley that she did. She was told it was Riley.
- [266:41]
B
Damn. I would have taken that to the jury house. How do I tell you? I would have been like, I promise you I didn't. I would have taken that. Because the thing is, is Catherine and Riley didn't like Rachel regardless. Like they were coming for her anyway. So to me, if I'm Lauren, I'm going to lie till the end of time and make my allies think I would never do that.
- [266:59]
A
I mean. And yeah, Keanu was pissed, of course, because he thinks that his ally and his now feeling at this point they've made the frenemies final to him and Rachel and they were really working together during that hoh. In his mind, you know, again, in his mind, it's still the Unexpendables and, and in the Unexpendables, it's the three guys loyal to each other. Vince has you as a plus one, Riley has Katherine as a plus one, and he has Rachel as a plus one. And they'll all betray their plus ones in the end to go to final three together. He's like, riley, you're gonna betray Catherine, right? And Riley's like, no, Ry was Never.
- [267:38]
B
Gonna be betray Catherine ever.
- [267:40]
A
Anyway, so he's pissed. He's like, rachel, what are you doing? Putting my ally up on the block. This is not how we're supposed to be doing this. And, and he doesn't. He believes. He's like, lauren wouldn't lie about you saying. And she's like, I told Lauren. I told Lauren it would be right. He's like, lauren wouldn't lie about that. And so. So they go through that whole thing. But this now comes down to a very, very, very tense vote situation. I cannot express enough that we thought it was impossible for Riley to leave.
- [268:13]
B
Me too.
- [268:14]
A
Even with. Even with the judges formation. So it really starts. Ashley and Will are talking about, you know, the vote and how they're like, Ava's not even fully on board to keep Morgan. Like, we need, we need numbers. And I think that if we pull in Morgan, we get Vince. I think we can make this work. So they go, they talk to Rachel, they talk to you. You guys come, you talk about pulling in Vince. And the judges are formed. I've told the story a couple times, but literally, like the one day I was like, all right, I'm going to, I'm going to go out. I'm going to go to the zoo. I'm going to have a good time. I'm looking at some elephants and on my phone it's like, judges are like, damn it.
- [268:57]
B
Yeah, it was, it was kind of crazy because it's like I was on the block and I knew that week I was going to be campaigning for myself. Obviously I didn't want either. You know, I didn't want Mickey to leave, but I was like, I had learned from Keanu that if Mickey is on that block, come eviction night, she's getting evicted. And so I was like, okay, like, as much as I don't want Mickey in this house because she is ruining my game, I would rather not have Riley more. And I also learned from the week with Jimmy where it's like, okay, is it important to get out somebody right now or do you look at the bigger optics of things and think a little bit deeper? Which is why I was like, okay, Riley has to go. I don't know if that means I win this blockbuster and vote him out or Mickey wins the blockbuster and votes him out. But Riley has to go because I, I cannot afford to have Mickey gone. Even with how she was like, you know, bringing a detriment to my game and others game. I mean, even Will and Ashley and Rachel, we've all had Conversations by this time of how Mickey is damaging our games, but not to the point where we can't control it. Like, at least we're all having conversations of like, okay, Mickey was telling you this. Mickey was telling me this. Now we understand that she's just kind of paranoid and kind of. Because that was definitely something. She was very, very paranoid. So obviously after the judges was formed, that was kind of where I was really going to work with Vince to make sure that he was aligned and not looking at the judges as just like this temporary thing. Because obviously Rachel had been coming after him for weeks, but also just doing my best that week to campaign with those that I felt the vote would need to be flipped so I could talked to Ava. And one of the conversations I had with her was how at the end of the day, Riley is somebody who was going to come after Will, who was going to come after Ashley, Rachel, our side. And I'm never going to do that. Like, if I'm hoh there are more fish to fry and it's nobody on our side of things. And that was the first time where she was like, she didn't really have any argument against it because we've had other conversations where she'd kind of bring her side of things, but she's like, wow. Well, frankly, you're right. You know what I mean? It was just like one of those conversations where she understood that I'm like, girl, I am not going to put up the people that are on our side. Like, we have other people that are a problem. And Riley is another thing. I also used Rachel's tactic, which was talking about how dangerous a showmance can be come jury phase. Like, as together. I'm like, if we allow this showmance to like, that's going to be a guaranteed two votes. And if into jury two votes is more than half of the vote in some of the weeks, we can't allow that. That means they're just going to run the the rest of the game. Can't do that.
- [271:31]
A
Yeah. And the Ava thing was important too, because ultimately this comes down to Ava and Vince as the swing votes. And again, when I tell you, like, we did not think this was possible because Ava and Vince were talking about which way to go. Like the night before could not come to a conclusion. I remember that they talked in the morning, could not come to a conclusion. And we actually never got confirmation of which way they would vote on the feeds.
- [272:04]
B
Okay.
- [272:05]
A
And we also didn't know if Mickey would be a vote for you because. And you know this after the fact.
- [272:13]
B
Yes.
- [272:13]
A
Mickey was promising Riley the world and saying that she was going to evict you. So we're like, even if Vince and Ava do vote for her, which we're not sure that they will because of her vote, Mickey might not vote. And so we didn't know where things were going. And. And at one point, it seemed like Vince had actually leaned in the other direction, at least from our perspective, that he was actually planning to evict you. He actually goes. And you probably remember this. He goes to you and he says, like, you know, would we still be friends if. If I vote? If. Like, if I.
- [272:48]
B
It was them. So I remember. Yes, we. So we. I remember him telling me about his conversation with Ava. So Vince told me almost everything in the game. And I remember he was like, morgan, you can't let Ava know because Ava was very private about her information. She wore her cards close to her chest. So he was like, you can't tell Ava that I'm telling you this. I'm like, vince, you're fine. And he basically. Basically was saying, like, I was talking to her. We were talking about Mickey. Like, they. That's when they kind of bonded over the trauma that Mickey gave them meaning. Like, Mickey obviously taking over Ava's hoh. Mickey wanting Vince out. They were both on. If Mickey's on that block, she's gone. So I was like, okay, that's a lost cause. Like, there's no way I can. Because he looked at me, he's like, I am not going to keep making this house if she's on that block. I was like, okay. Like, that was one thing I wasn't going to fight because I'm like, sometimes with certain. Certain players or people, if you fight too hard, then you can lose trust in them. So I was like, you know what? If Mickey has to go, Mickey has to go, because it's not the worst for me. It just wouldn't have been the best for me. But that morning, he. He was, like, very emotional and, like, not, like, in a bad way. Just, like, I could see on his face something was off. And so I was like, hey, like, are you good? And he was just like that. That was like. When you see, like, the quote that I've seen where it's. It's like he says, like, he. He's willing to, like, throw his game away for me and piss off all these people, even though, like, voting me out if it came down to me, and Riley was better for his game because of all those people. But he couldn't do it because of the value that he found in me as a player, which I was like, damn, this is really good for me. Because if you can admit that these five people are probably better for your game, but you see more value in me as one one person, then, like, it was kind of validation for me as a player, for one being, like, okay, like, I'm. I'm kind of doing my thing. If someone's willing to literally betray five people for me, I'm doing good. But are you voting me out? Because what the. You know what I mean? I was kind of like, does this mean. I literally said I was like, you're voting me out? Because I was like, oh, my God. Like, what? Hello? Are you voting me out? Because if. So now I need to get even more to work. I need to start campaigning. I need to, like, really, really prep for this. Not saying I wasn't gonna, like, go in and win that blockbuster, but. And by no means was I like, oh, I'm gonna be fine this week. But it was like, I knew that people wanted Mickey gone, and if Mickey was on the block, I was like, okay, I have, like, a 2, 2 out of 3 chance to win this. But I kept my cars close as far as not letting Riley know that actually, if Mickey does win this, because he was like. He's like, just so you know, Morgan, like, anyone say next to Riley this week is going home. He has the votes. And I'm like, yeah, I know, Keanu. I was like, it's okay. I'm just kind of enjoying, like, you know, I'm just kind of, like, brushing it over, like. Like, yeah, I know. Like. But I'm like, little do you know, if Riley's on that block, he's probably going home. But I had the same thing that you said. The one person that if I would have bet money on would have flipped would have been Mickey. And I thought she did after winning the blockbuster, coming down the stairs. Because when we were up there waiting to, like, come downstairs. Actually, before that, before the blockbuster, she pulled Riley to have a prayer. And I was like, usually we all do it. So I thought that was the first tell that I was like, oh, Mickey could vote me out tonight. But, like, keep your cool, Morgan. Like, it's fine. But that was the first tell that I had that I was like, okay. I knew she was close with. With Riley, but that was the first time because I had already caught her with the Eminem's with Catherine. So everything was adding up. I'm like, okay, Mickey is more of a team Riley than a team Morgan. This is not good. But I'm going to act like I don't see it, and I'm going to let her think that I'm still on her side, because if she does survive and does keep me, then I need to start making moves on getting her out. And luckily, that's what happened. But that was the first time, like, I. After winning, coming down the steps, I remember giving her a hug. And usually what I've done in the past with other people, when you. When you give people a hug or whatever, like, you're. You're confirming in their. In their ears, like, hey, like, I got you. You're good. She never once said, we're good. Like, she said that before the blockbuster, she was like, she's like, us, we're making it. So after that, and she didn't tell me that, I was like, oh, my God, I could go home tonight. You know, I could really go home tonight. And we thought you were crazy.
- [276:44]
A
I mean, we. We, like, again, it's just seemed impossible. Was basically three different people that were on the fence. And we were getting the sense that Vince, even if he did vote for you, he wasn't pushing Ava to vote for you. So we're like, he almost seems like he doesn't want you to stay, but feels obligated to vote for you. Then Ava, who's flipping, flipping back and forth, and then Mickey, we don't even know. And so when. When Mickey wins, it's like, oh, my God, I think Morgan is gone. But then the votes start rolling in and, like, Mickey votes for you to stay. Okay, Mickey's in. Vince goes in there and he votes for you to stay. Like, oh, my God, I think this is happening. And then Ava goes in, and I swear to you, Morgan, have you seen this clip? She starts to say, morgan, I have, I have. I was watching this live. This is a clip of me watching Ava's vote.
- [277:40]
B
Oh, my God.
- [277:41]
A
You look Morgan or starts to say Morgan and then says, riley fudgeing.
- [277:48]
B
Go, dude, let's fucking go. That's right. Turn. Let's fucking go.
- [277:52]
A
Oh, my God. No way.
- [277:55]
B
No. You know what's so funny is, like, that was the first, like, deep fake out that Julie's done in, like, seasons. So when she said Morgan, I kid you not, if we were in a cartoon, you would have physically seen my soul leave my body. When she said my name, I could hear after Ashley gasp. Like, it's kind of weird because it's like when you're in the eviction block. Like, when you're on the block on eviction night after Blockbuster, it's like, everything. Like, all I remember was, like, it was very quiet. And when I heard Julie say Morgan, the only thing I heard was Ashley's gas. I even just got chills thing. I only heard her gasp because Ashley was very, like, expressive. And so when I heard that, I could feel, like, tenseness from Will. It was crazy. I was holding Riley's hand. But the weird part is, at the same time, I. I honestly genuinely felt that I had the votes. But it was still scary because when she said my name first, I was like, oh, my God, Like, I've been duped. And then she said, you're safe. And then I was like, and then you hear Catherine erupt, and it was just insane. That was like, the most insane night.
- [278:58]
A
Everyone starts bawling like, oh, my God.
- [279:02]
B
It was rough. Like, Vince was crying. 8 Ava was crying. I was looking around, like. But then. So I would say the other tell for me with Mickey, and this is when I knew it was fully done. I was never gonna fight for Mickey anymore. Was her reaction after she was more upset that Riley left than happier that I stayed.
- [279:20]
A
Yeah, she was not too. She saw one of the rest of them.
- [279:23]
B
I was like, wait a second, girl. Like, I get it.
- [279:25]
A
Like, you really bragging about tricking her that very week.
- [279:29]
B
And also someone who was gonna put her up on his blog and who was coming for her every single time. So I was like, wait a second. Like, girl, I get. Like, you were connected with him on a personal level. But, like, she kept being like, he deserved it. Like, he came from nothing. And in my head, I'm like, no offense. This is not a game about who came from where and who. This is a game that if you want to play and win this game, you better buckle up, you better lock it in, and you better win. It doesn't matter where you come from. And there was, like, certain comments that, like, I had heard throughout the season, you know, about certain people of who deserved what. And I'm like, this is a game. I think whoever is deserving of winning this game will, in fact, win this game. Like, that's just what it is. Like, people who are going to. Who are here to play this game, they're going to play the game. So after seeing that and seeing her so upset and not actually being like. Because she was just so upset. And then I remember even, like, when I was in the bathroom, even Lauren, like, she was crying and she Was like, I'm so sorry. And I thought she was, as I was about to say, like, it's okay. She's like, I really didn't think Riley was going to go. And I'm like, okay, thanks, Lauren. Like, I, yes, I know I survived block. A lot of people are probably not happy that I'm here or maybe or whatever. But it was just so interesting to see people kind of show their emotional cards where I'm like, okay, like, I see now I'm starting to pick people who are not on my team whatsoever. Like, I understand that, like, you can. Like, for example, with Catherine, obviously I was expecting her to be upset. I was not upset at her because I'm like, that's your man. But like other people, I'm like, okay, yeah, you can have a connection with them, but this is also, like, now I'm starting to see that you don't really. I don't know if you don't see value in me, but you're not happy that I'm here. So if you're not happy that I'm.
- [280:59]
A
Here, here, then at this point, Lauren had started pitching to Vince. It should be you, me, Riley, Catherine. Like, that should be the team. And he was like, yeah, of course. And he, he had, he had floated the idea of evicting you to her. And she was obviously like that. He floated the idea of keeping you to her. And she's like, I, we can't do that.
- [281:23]
B
Right.
- [281:24]
A
And. And I think that that was like a huge reason why he seemed so torn was because he felt like there was a path debates about this. I did not think that was actually a better path for him. I think that he loses the game to Riley if he keeps Riley over 100%.
- [281:39]
B
But, like, the temperature in the house about Riley, we did not know, like the live feeders do. Riley had a great social game. Everyone loved him inside the house. And especially since he was literally the kind of person who would tell people, like, I will use that veto on Catherine. Like, he was going to do everything to make sure Catherine was protected. That's a dangerous player to keep around because he's competitive. He would have done very well in athletic competitions. He probably, probably could have won wall comp. I don't know if he would have beat Vince because Vince was like, I could have gone up there for another seven hours, but it was still like, I do not think that that path would have been well. And I think that was actually a better path for Lauren than it was for Vince. Oh, yeah, maybe she was Trying to convince him, hey, this is better for us when it's like that actually was not going to be good for Vince whatsoever.
- [282:20]
A
Well, he does then go on to win the wall. Pretty necessary one for him. Because Catherine was not pleased.
- [282:27]
B
No. Which is why I was like, oh, my God. When he was telling me, like, oh, well, Lauren said that, like, Catherine wouldn't put me up. I'm like, okay, let's rewind. So you're telling me that you tell all of them you're voting me out? You don't vote me out.
- [282:39]
A
Do you know the reason she's not.
- [282:40]
B
Going to put you up on the block? Oh, my God, Please tell me.
- [282:43]
A
He said. He said that the reason he voted out Riley was because he was tricked. He thought he was only giving a sympathy vote to you and that the numbers were. Would be there and that he got tricked into giving a vote for you. And then it turned out all the votes were there.
- [282:58]
B
I mean, I can, I. I can. Sure an effort. Yeah. But I'm like, they didn't know world. I was like, in no world would would Ashley ever vote to keep Riley over me. So that's already two votes. And then Rachel obviously couldn't vote. And no, I mean, maybe they thought maybe Mickey, but like, I don't know. I mean, you know, I guess I'll give it to him. But that's actually kind of funny.
- [283:22]
A
It was very funny.
- [283:23]
B
Yeah.
- [283:24]
A
Basically, Catherine afterward was talking to Kelly about it and she was like, I mean, we. We have to believe him. He's hoh.
- [283:32]
B
Yeah, right, Right. No, for sure. Oh, my God. That's actually so funny. Oh, my God. But yeah, I was so happy that he won because I knew for sure I was safe now. What I also knew was Mickey was in dangerous waters.
- [283:43]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [283:44]
B
But she didn't not know that. She was completely unaware because I knew after he told me that, like, how much him and Ava were anti Mickey, I was like, oof. If Vince wins this hoh, Mickey's in trouble. And like, I can't really do anything about that because.
- [283:59]
A
And Mickey was a. Was a pretty good target for him, I think. I mean, I was saying at this point that it was time he should take a shot at Rachel. And. And obviously you would have been upset, but, like, I believed that you wouldn't turn on him if he did that. And he really needed Rachel out. Yeah, you're right.
- [284:22]
B
But I needed. I needed Catherine now. I needed Rachel to say, exactly. Because Cathy, because, like, the other thing that I told him, I was like, look, Whether you want to believe Lauren or not, Lauren has been tight with Catherine since week one. There is no way. I was like. And I always, like, phrase that as if, like, if I was this person, I tried my best to always take myself out of my shoes and put myself and theirs. I was like, if I have my man in the house and one of our allies votes him out, I don't care he's going on the block. I do not care. I was like, if you really think that Lauren's telling you the truth, that's when I started, like, really kind of questioning, like, his reads on Lauren because I was like, I'm not even tight with Lauren to know that she's lying about this because she has to. She has to protect Catherine. That's a number for her. She just lost Riley. She's lost Adrian. She's losing numbers. So of course she's going to sit and there. There and tell you, hey, Catherine's not going to target you. Like, she wants Rachel because Rachel was the hoh. I was like, well, if we're going to use that mentality, then she should want Lauren because Lauren used the Beatle that got Vince off the block and put Riley up, especially if she already knew. So, like, this is not adding up. So luckily, Vince won. And then this is where we see some, like, real juicy, like, tea between Mickey and I. That was a very interesting week for sure.
- [285:34]
A
Yeah. And, you know, this is really, I would say, not the start of, but, like, it's really starting to become obvious because he did the same thing during the vote. But, like, he is still telling people. Like, previously, when he would. When Vince would tell people what they want to hear, it was like, okay, well, he's hedging, right? Like, in case, whatever. But then he was hoh this week, and he was still, like, basically up until the nomination ceremony telling Keanu, I will put up Rachel and Ashley. It was like, Vince, you're in control of this decision. You don't need to hedge this. He's going to find out eventually. And. And so it's. It was like, like, what's going on here? And obviously the main thing of this week is that despite the trying to go for this middle shot of. Of. Of Mickey, she ends up winning this veto. And he needs to have a Renam. And you have some opinions about the Renam.
- [286:33]
B
I do. And you know what's actually funny? And I thought this would be so crazy. I was like, damn, damn. Either like, Vince is, like, very good in talking or, like, I'm also Very good, too, because for one, I was surprised that Mickey. I mean, she kind of had a hunch that I was in on it, but it didn't seem like she was as worried. Maybe she was saving it for next week, but she kind of really didn't push back. Like, when I. When I was like, we see that bathroom scene where she's pissed. And I was like. Because my whole thing was like, I knew she. He wanted Mickey up. So I'm like, if I can not go up on. Go up there and have meetings with him. She can't say that I was part of this because I have witnesses that I actually didn't go up there on the hohs. So I told Vince. I was like, look, I trust you. Do whatever you want to do for your nominations. Everything's gonna be fine. I know your targets. Mickey, cool. Like. Or like, he had multiple targets. He had Mickey and he had Ava.
- [287:22]
A
He did. He did. Really? He was trying to sell Ava as a target for so long.
- [287:26]
B
I know. I was like, anyway, so I was like. I was like, look, I'm, you know, I'm going to hang back, do my own thing. I kind of let him know that I'm not going to be up there very much because I know how Mickey is. She was very paranoid. She would always watch what everyone was doing. I mean, I remember the. The week that Catherine had the veto, I spoke to her after the veto to be like, hey, like, I just didn't want you to think I was trying to get you to use the veto. I just wanted you to, like, do your own thing and, like, let you know that I see you as a game player. Because one thing about Catherine is she did not like that people were pinning her and Riley together. She wanted to be seen as a separate player. So I was like, you know, just trying to make sure that I'm doing my thing by having conversations. But by doing that, Mickey would always be like, oh, well, I saw you talking to so and so. And I saw you talking to so and so. I'm like, well, yeah, because I'm in a game where you have to talk to so and so. You know what I mean? So I was like, okay, Mickey pays a lot of attention of what I'm doing in the house, so let me make sure that she really can't have evidence that I was in on this decision with Vince. I'll go up there and I'll basically be like, hey, like, yeah, that. But, like, that's why the last time I spoke to him, and that's why she was pissed. And I was like. I was like, look, you can see, you can ask anyone. I was barely up there for two minutes. The only name that came out was Ava, you know, and Kelly. So I don't. I don't know who. Who he's gonna do. So that was why in the dark.
- [288:36]
A
At this point, there was not a single soul giving her any accurate information.
- [288:40]
B
No. And I honestly, I'm so proud of, like, me, Ashley, Will, Rachel, like, really kind of coming together in that scene stance, even getting people, like. I mean, the fact that we even trusted Keanu for a little bit, but, like, basically kind of having this pact of, like, look, we are going to keep Mickey in the dark because she is paranoid. She's all over the place, and we all want her out at some point, but let's make sure that she doesn't have more information than she needs. And honestly, even the veto worked out in Vince's favor because he was, like, super worried. I'm like, look, Vince, if she's convinced that you were going to use. Because he told me. He's like, well, I told her that I was going to use the video on her. I'm like, great. So if she does win this. And it came down to them, too, and let's be real, they did not play that veto right either. Even Rachel and I were talking shit about it. I was like. I was like, happening this season, like, why are you, like, the fact that Kelly did not continuously target Mickey, for example, like, you're supposed to target the people that are on the block or even Keanu. He said like, well, I didn't target Mickey because I didn't want her to think that I was targeting her. I was like, but you are. So. I don't get it. It was so confusing. So as much as that was like a shit show of a veto, it worked out for me. For Vince, kind of. Not really. Like, obviously he didn't want her to win, but I was like, she trusted him enough for his. His word of being. Like, hey, I was going to use it on you anyway, which is what I ended up using. I was like, girl, he was going to use it. He realized he messed up. He had heard some things. I came up with this whole plan. I mean, I don't know if you remember, like, it showed, but I was like, look, we're going to come with this whole plan that, like, you were getting fed information. And he's like, well, Catherine did give me information. I was like, perfect, Use that. Like, Catherine gave you this so now you have reason. Just like how she did with Jimmy, where you're just like, hey, I was just hearing these things. I didn't know what to believe. You didn't want to talk to me? And then it worked. And then the veto got used.
- [290:19]
A
And then he really wanted to put Rachel on the block. And Rachel trusting. And the thing was that, like, Keanu was pushing for it too, and then.
- [290:31]
B
Getting in his bed.
- [290:33]
A
Then Vince told Rachel that Keanu was pushing for him to her to go up on the block. And then she, oh, my God, Keanu. And said, keanu, what are you doing? And then Keanu went back to Vince and said, why? Why is Rachel? And it was all hot mess.
- [290:47]
B
That was a whole mess. Because I was like. Because Vince was very concerned. And to be fair, I will give him this. He was very right to want to put Rachel up on the block. She was targeting him for literally six weeks. I totally understand that. And I got his. His argument of, like, if I don't put her up. No, he definitely, for his game, he should have 1,000%. Like, 1,000%. However, I also felt that, like, because of how Catherine was probably feeling, I. After that, I was like, I know Rachel's targeting you, but technically we're in the judges alliance now, so, like, let's. And I really, like, buttered up this alliance because I'm like, if. I was like, rachel's a loyal player, so if you can prove to her that you're going to be loyal to her. I was like, right now you guys are on fairground. If you take a shot at her again, she's going to come for you. She has the numbers. And I was like, and here's the other thing. She has the numbers to survive block, so whether she wins that, like, that.
- [291:34]
A
Was really good for him. He was very worried that she wouldn't leave. And then I think another thing that you did really well is when you talk to Will about, like, hey, you should go talk to Vince and say that you're, like, willing to target Rachel eventually.
- [291:49]
B
Yes.
- [291:50]
A
Because he needed to know that, like, that was the case.
- [291:53]
B
Yeah. Vince needed to know that if he's gonna. Because, like, once he made the Riley boat after he told me, I'm gonna betray these five people for you, I'm like, okay, well, then now I need to make you feel comfortable with my five plus people that they're gonna protect you. And, like, the judges was perfect way to do it. But I also was just like, if you want to take the shot, like, I mean, you Were right. I wasn't going to turn on him, But I knew it was going to put me in a tough position because I'm like, Rachel. And I told him this. Rachel will come for you. I. I'm one person. I cannot protect you. My one vote will not save you. And there's a very big chance that because she knows I'm a vote for you, she will put me up on the block. And then there goes my relationship with Rachel. And I just worked so freaking hard to get my Rachel, like, to get my relationship back with her. So, I mean, it was. It was so funny because I feel like it reminded me of, like, a boxing match where it was like, ding, ding, ding. And, like, first it was my turn, then it was Keanu was like, me and Keanu were going back and forth on who could get the last word with Vince. And it even came to the point when, like, Vince and Keanu are in the gym, AKA Keanu's hoh. I used to crack up when he would say that, like, come to my HOH dream. I was like, oh, my God, Keanu. But I remember I was downstairs, and this is when Rachel was like, well, where's Vince? I'm like, well, Keanu is frickin up with him still in the. In the gym. And that's when she goes up there, comes and tells me that, you know, Vince is crying. So I'm like, okay, this is great. Like, I'm gonna make Keanu kind of like a little enemy so that I tell Ava. Then Ava goes up there. Like, everyone is trying to get Keanu away from Vince because the whole thing is we don't want Rachel up on the block, which, of course, ends up working in our favor. And she doesn't go up on the block. Catherine goes up, and Catherine goes home. Now, I will say if. If Kelly was on the block, I was actually going to vote to keep Kelly. I know I was.
- [293:37]
A
You. Yeah. You put in some work to try to get Catherine to stay. I don't think it ended up working, but I did. It was like, yeah. I think Kelly still would have been evicted there.
- [293:50]
B
No, she would have. I was trying so hard to, like.
- [293:53]
A
Yeah.
- [293:53]
B
At least for my point. Because I'm like. Because even Kelly, like, when I think Kelly was obviously, she just never saw Big brother, but I never. I, like, I think at that point in time, I don't think she was necessarily, like, targeting me. And that's the thing that I would talk to Will about and even told Vince. I was like, I don't Want to win these HOH is right now, because people are going to expect me to put up Kelly and Keanu. Now, would I put up Keanu? Probably, but I wouldn't have put up Kelly. And I didn't to want to show my cards because there were some people that I felt closer to in the house, but I just didn't want people to see that. So I was happy that Vince won the situation, was able to protect Rachel and get someone else out like Catherine or. I mean, it would have been Kelly if she was on the block. I. My one vote, like I said, wouldn't have saved her. But getting Catherine out, who I knew was also coming after Vince and potentially me too. So it just worked out because at the end of the day, Rachel was not coming for me. Catherine was. So get somebody out that's coming for me. And not, you know, no offense to anybody else or not. Not you.
- [294:53]
A
And this is. This is what. This is what I talked about at the start of this, this whole podcast, was that, like, you intentionally made sure that in all of the relationships you had, all of the. The alliances that you had, that you would have influence over those people that you. You pushed, and if they didn't respond, you got rid of them, and if they did, you kept them so that in these moments, you did have the influence to get what you wanted that was better for you versus what was better for them. And, you know, Catherine leaves here and. And. And Lauren goes to Vince on her birthday and cries and says, you're ruining my game.
- [295:32]
B
Yeah. And you know what's crazy? Catherine actually had a great exit speech and kind of threw Ava under the bus, talking about, like, you know, Ava, like, she. She basically kind of told people, like, you know, Ava is a huge threat. Like, you know, she's the kind of person that if you sit next to her, you go home. And I was like, oh, this is going to be interesting information to use in the future, because she's right. And maybe there'll be a moment in time where if I have to campaign against Ava or something like that, I can use that, because she was right. Ava and Will were two people that if you sat next to them, you were going home. You did not have the votes no matter what.
- [296:07]
A
Well, until. Until they went home.
- [296:09]
B
Until. Yeah, until they went home. Yeah.
- [296:12]
A
So Keanu wins the next hoh and this is worst case scenario for you. You, because you specifically are his target. And he's even, like, opened his eyes enough because of Vince's decision last. The previous week. He knows he Needs to put Vince on the block. And although, granted, if Vince stays on the block against you, it's. That's. Bye, bye, Vince. So. But he has. First of all, when Vince puts Rachel up, he's very disappointed in Vince. Has a whole motivational argument speech to him. You know?
- [296:47]
B
Wait, Vince.
- [296:50]
A
When. When. Sorry. When Vince put Catherine up and not. Oh, okay.
- [296:54]
B
I was like, okay, yeah.
- [296:57]
A
They. They have a whole argument in the. In the gym, the boxing gym, where Vince, again, is like, I'm so sorry. I'm such a coward. I didn't mean to. And Keanu's like, dude, you can't build confidence without competence. You need to be like you. If you have a shot, you need to take it. That's what Rachel taught me.
- [297:19]
B
Rachel, school book. I'm done.
- [297:20]
A
Exactly. And so then Keanu's hoh. And he's telling Vince he needs to go up on the block. And Vince. I mean, this is like the most. The. The funniest conversation of the entire season. Because Vince is just like, no, you can't do this to me. You can't do this to me, Keanu. Like, a week before the jury. Like, I just need to make one more week. Not you.
- [297:41]
B
Yeah.
- [297:42]
A
And. And Keanu is just like, dude. Like, he's like, you're gonna lose an ally if you put me on the block. They're gonna vote me out. It's like, dude, you're not an ally.
- [297:51]
B
What Ally? Right? You.
- [297:52]
A
You've taken my. You're. If I. If I lose you as an ally, at least I won't lose any other allies because you've been taking out my allies. And it was very funny. There's a very funny moment also where Ava walks in in the middle of Vince being like, I'll do anything. I'll do anything, please. And then Ava. Ava pops her head in. Does anyone want tea?
- [298:14]
B
Oh, my God. Whenever she used to ask for tea, I swear she'd probably come in at some, like, the worst times asking for tea. And she was always like, oh. Oh, sorry. Anyone want some tea? Like, it was so funny. Yeah, I. And it's funny. That was actually the first time I remember. Like, I knew I was going on the block with Keanu. I did not think he was going to put up Vince. So similar to how he looked at me on week five or. Sorry, when I was on the block week six, the morning of when, you know, I wasn't sure if he was going to keep me or not, he looked the same. And I was like, what's going on? And he's like, keanu's gonna put me up. And I could not believe it. And I was like, shit. Got my fucking time card, went to go clock in for fucking work. Because I'm like, what are we talking about? Like, Keanu, why are you putting up Vince? And that's when I was, like, in the kitchen trying to, like, pick his brain. But Keanu is really funny because in the game, like, he was always, like, pretty honest and open, but, like, when he was set on something, he was very, like, poised, you know, composed, and. Excuse me.
- [299:12]
A
Works for him when he's right. Unfortunately, that wasn't very often.
- [299:16]
B
No, but the way he was talking about, he's like, you know, he's like, I know what I'm doing. He's like, I'm, like, protecting my allies. And so then I was like, okay. I was like, well, you have a lot of allies on the board. I was like, I can see quite a few. Like, I can see Lauren, I can see Kelly. I can see Vince. Like, I'm naming things. So he's kind of like, making like, you know, kind of like, hello, Vince is your ally. Like, don't put a bit sense. And that conversation really didn't go anywhere. I was trying to see if he'd give me anything, but Keanu was not giving me anything, and I knew I was his target because, like, I'm like, okay, he's not even giving me anything, which is telling me, like, Morgan, stop talking to me. Like, I'm not really interested in this conversation. You're gonna go up on the block. Have a good night. See you tomorrow for the noms. And so that was a rough night because that was the first time where I was like, wow, okay, so Vincent and I are going to be back on the block again. This is not good. I'm pretty sure the third is also going to be Mickey. So here we are yet again, back on Rachel's hoh kind of re up. But this time, like, what's going to happen? Who's going to win this veto? Like, who's going to come off the block? Can. Can we all three survive again? Like, shit. Like, this is nuts.
- [300:21]
A
And this. This is, like, this is, I think, the big moment right where you win this veto. And again, like, I. I believe that Vince is. Is voted out over you if you're both on the block. So, like, the odds of you actually being evicted here were. Were not that high. But it was still a good veto to win in this particular situation. Because if, of course, if Vince had come off the block, then you would have been in trouble because, you know, with. With Ashley as a potential. Potential replacement. Yeah, exactly.
- [300:58]
B
Then.
- [300:58]
A
Then things look pretty bad.
- [301:00]
B
Right?
- [301:01]
A
So I'm sure.
- [301:03]
B
Yeah, let's talk about it.
- [301:05]
A
Plenty about this.
- [301:06]
B
Everyone's like, did you know? And I'm like, guys, guys, okay. So, yeah, I. I have heard how everyone's like, did you know Vince was in on it? Morgan, open your eyes. All this stuff. Like, I saw a bunch of comments and stuff, and I just kind of laugh. I can, like, go. Go back to little tells that I got that week from Keanu. Because one. One thing I will say is I was 100. Always going to use that veto on myself.
- [301:31]
A
From our. From our perspective. Let me just. Let me give you sort of like what we saw, basically. Well, first of all, I guess they. They came up with this plan of, like, you know, what if we are able to trick her into thinking we'll. That we'll put up Lauren or that I'll put up Lauren and then I'll put up Ashley instead. And Keanu gave Vince, like, a little bit and Vin, I don't think that's going to work on her. We need to come up with something else. And then Keanu came up with his. Like, he came up with something different than what he told you. And they were like, oh, this is a good one. And then they bring you in and he gives you this pitch that is like, listen, I can't do one for one, but I can do two for one. And he leaves the room briefly, and you're like, obviously, I'm not going to do this. And we're like, oh, thank God. But then he comes back in and Vince comes in, and Vince is looking at you like a puppy dog, like, oh, my God, this might actually work. And. And he keeps saying, two for one. I can't do one for one. I can only do two for one. And then you leave and you start talking about it like you're actually going to do it. And meanwhile, Keanu and Vince are talking. They're like, wait, how did. What was the argument? And they're like, I can't remember because.
- [302:46]
B
It didn't make any sense. Any sense. So it's funny because, like, oh, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead.
- [302:52]
A
Yes. So. So there was very real fear for us that, like, it. All of a sudden she's talking to Vince like, she's going to do this. And she then. And then you would occasionally be like, wait, but what if he doesn't actually put up Lauren and Vince Is like, no, no, he definitely will. He definitely will. He couldn't. He doesn't lose the game if you didn't. And you were like, I don't know. And then you talked to Will, and will was like, yeah, because he wasn't listening.
- [303:17]
B
Right, of course.
- [303:19]
A
And then, like, Rachel and Ashley and they were like, no, don't do this. And so it was unclear for us. It seemed to us like you, at the very least were considering it for a brief period of time.
- [303:34]
B
Yeah, so. So the thing with Keanu is he oversold this to where I was like, okay. Like, he was like, you're going to get America's favorite player. It's going to be like a Tucker. You're going to get this. And I'm like, huh? Huh? Like, you're crazy. Because I'm like, okay, let's be real. Like, I'm not a Tucker. Tucker won america's favorite because he was Tucker. He did everything, like, to earn that. And so I was like, first of all, I've had several game conversations with Keanu, and he has never been this adamant or enthused about a veto being used. And I'm like, first of all, let me, like, let's not forget Keanu. Like, I was your target, and you're going to sit here and tell me that if I, your target initial, who won the veto? Which was, mind you, the worst case scenario, because he had told me prior to the veto that he hopes x people get picked. He wants Vince to come off and, like, then we can all work together. The whole point was getting Vince off. Well, his target won the veto. So I'm like, okay, so you. So you're telling me, like, this is what's going through my head. Like, so you're telling me that your target who won the veto, if I use the veto on Vince, I'm no longer your target. That doesn't make any sense. I was your initial target. The reason why I'm no longer your target is because I have a veto which can save myself. But he definitely oversold it way too hard. And I remember going down into the storage room and I saw Vince. I was like, vince, let me talk to you really quick. And I was like. I was like, so I think Keanu is bluffing because first of all, the argument didn't make any sense. And for two, if he's going to sit here and say that he wants to work with me and you, then why are we not interchangeable on the block? Me coming off shouldn't matter, right? Because if you Want to work with both of us. Me coming off should be the same as events comes off. And if you really want to put up Lauren, then me coming off shouldn't change the fact of whether or not you're putting up Lauren. So I knew he was bluffing. I knew that he was going to blindside and put up up Ashley, because I'm like, first of all, he never came from Lauren, never came for Lauren. Lauren was always on his side of things. It didn't make sense for him not to put up Ashley, especially because Keanu and Rachel had, like, a game relationship. And I could imagine that he would look at as or Ashley as, like, an issue for him, considering that Ashley was closer to Rachel. And I would assume that he would want Rachel closer to him. So I'm like, there's just no way in the world of Keanu that he puts up Lauren. And even him trying to be like, well, no one wants her injury. Like, I can do this for you guys. And I'm like, well, the only reason why people weren't really wanting Lauren and jury is because she was really indecisive. But that's not a big issue right now. It's the fact that you really think that I'm believing anything that you're saying and really getting this video used on Vince. And the reason why I went around and talked to people about it is because I actually wanted to see how people would react if I told them I would use it on them. Because if I saw people being like, oh, okay, like, sure. Like, that. That can seem like. Then I would be like, okay, they're actually not worried if I stay here. Or like, Rachel. She was like, morgan, what? You can't do that. So I was like, okay, cool. Rachel's team Morgan. Like, she doesn't want me to use this. So I was always going to use it on myself. But I kind of use that as a way to kind of, like, toy around and see if there was anybody who was actually kind of in favor of saving Vince to see where people's allyship was.
- [306:33]
A
You did have that. You did have a moment talking to the cameras where you were, like, talking out the scenarios as well, that we were like, oh, my God. She's, like, actually considering this.
- [306:44]
B
Yeah. I mean, it's fun to kind of consider stuff for sure. And like, there was like. I will say initially I was like, like, you know what? Like, if there is a brief moment, let me just do it now. Like, let's just think about it. And I knew I went through all the scenarios ahead of my Eminem's, all the things I was like. I knew that the only way would be if me and Mickey were on the block together, because Mickey would get voted out. I didn't have the votes against Ashley, so I was like, it's not even worth it. Like, none of this is going to be worth it. Like, I'm sorry, at this point, if I have to sacrifice a game, it's not going to be mine. It's going to be Vince's, unfortunately. And I'll figure out how to, like, navigate throughout the course of. Of the game. But I definitely was, like, open out or open outward about potentially using it, because it's. This is my first veto. I'm like, oh, maybe I can make a big move. But, like, the big move was going to take myself down.
- [307:26]
A
So. And that. And that was the main thing is that, like, I mean, usually in a situation like that, even if somebody considers it for a moment, what I would say on. On a podcast is like, they're not going to actually do it, though, guys. Like, it's one thing to. To talk about it, to consider it. It's another thing to actually follow through, because once you actually start. Start thinking about it, you decide not to. The only reason it really scared us is because of the season that you were on, right? It's already happened. No, seriously, it was like, oh, my God, is this really gonna happen? And then, of course, Vince, like, spent the rest of the night, like, continuing, and he had, like, he'd even gone back to. To Keanu, and Keanu at this point was like, never mind. We don't need to do it. And it's like, no, no, we still do. We still do. And he spent, like, the rest of the night trying to convince you. And so people were like, is Vince gonna. Gonna get her back on board? But you were. You were, like, very adamant from that point.
- [308:19]
B
And even in the wine room, Vince had told me he was like, if I had even thought that you were gonna use it, I was gonna tell you not to. And I was like, I wasn't gonna use it, Vince.
- [308:27]
A
Like, he was definitely not gonna not.
- [308:29]
B
Tell you not to. Yeah, I mean, sure. I mean, honestly, do I. Do I think that I was like, maybe? No, I just know that in the. The. In the wine room, he said that. And I was like, in my head, I'm like, at the end of the day, like, I knew I was going to use it on myself. Like, this was my first veto, and the second time that I was a target on the block, I would be foolish not to use it for myself because it's like, sure, was I a target on Rachel's and, like, turned her into an ally or not? Not turned her into one, but, like, rebuilt that relationship. Yes. Is that doable with Keanu? Potentially. And, like, I didn't think that we weren't allies, but I didn't think that we weren't any enemies either. It was just more of, like, okay, like, Keanu wants to work with Zach and I are not Zach and I with Vince and I. So, like, go ahead and prove it, because, like, you've been, you know, targeting people throughout the season. Like, you've been targeting Zach. You've been targeting, like, you know, Rachel, and then now you're friends with Rachel. Now you're friends with, you know, Ashley. Or, like, he's been so back and forth throughout the season, at least for, like, perception, what it looked like. Because it's like, especially I love that they were called the frenemies, because it's like, I was like, okay, you guys love each other. You guys hate each other. Like, same thing with, like, a lot of the people that left the house. Like, like, I mentioned Zach. Like, he loved Zach, and then he couldn't stand Zach, and then, like, he loved Vince, then he couldn't stand Vince, and then he loved Vince again. So I'm just like, can I build a relationship out of this with Keanu? Yes, potentially. But is it really going to matter to me? No. Because I'm kind of already good with my people, and Keanu was a huge threat, AKA a shield, so I was happy that he was in the house because people are just going to continue to target him instead of me. For now.
- [309:53]
A
Yeah. And. And I think. I think this is, like, the main thing that I've seen at least. Least that, like, I think that people were really offended for you that Vince was doing this, and they really, like. And I think this is why this is such a big thing, is that they really want to see you, like, recognize that, like, he was trying to trick you. And, like, I think they want you to feel what they felt, and that's fair. And. And, you know, I. I think that, like, it's. I think that's an understandable sort of desire. I think that, like, if you don't feel. Feel that way, like, that should be okay. Like, it's. If.
- [310:28]
B
Yeah.
- [310:29]
A
You know, like, especially. And I talked about this toward the end of the season, too, that, like, at the end of the day, you know, we have our feelings. We Watch these people, they go through their thing. You get out of this house. And you know this probably better than anyone, at least on this call, that very few people actually understand the experience of being in the house. We watch everything. We see everything. Don't. Don't, you know, don't come out here and say, like, we don't see everything because we do see most things.
- [310:58]
B
No.
- [310:58]
A
But we don't know what it feels like, the trauma that is experienced of being there. And the only people that do are the other people in that house. And so when you come out, I think a lot of people are looking at, like, hey, Remember on day 44 when this person said this thing to you or said this thing about you? You should be mad about this. It's like, I, you. I understand where that comes from, but I think that the end result is often that you're trying to get these people to. To turn on and feel fearful of and hurt by the only people in the world right now that get them understand the experience that. That. That they just went through. And so I think and hope that we can have a little more empathy around, like, we don't. We don't need these people to tear each other apart or to, like, we don't need these people to, like, feel the deep hu. Like, this is every betrayal that they faced in a game. Even if it was personal, like, it's still like, you. You are free to have the relationships that you want to have and feel the things that you want to feel outside of the context of this game. And that might be frustrating for people who want their cathartic pound of flesh, but, you know, at the end of the day, like, you're not our playthings anymore.
- [312:13]
B
Right.
- [312:14]
A
If you ever were. Right. And yeah, you know that. That's just what I wanted to say about that. And I hope people can be understanding of, like, where you are and where we are in this.
- [312:24]
B
Yeah, no, I love that because I. I definitely got a ton of dms. Like, did you know about, like, wait till you see the veto. And, like, you're gonna think differently. And I'm like, the way my brain works is just like, at the end of the day, it didn't happen. So, like, sure, if it happened, of course, would I have felt some type of way? Sure. Like, I don't know. It didn't happen happen. So I can't necessarily, like, truly speak on that. But at the end of the day, I use the veto on myself because I was putting my game first and I was like, you know, Making sure I was good over anything. Like, can I look back and be like, oh, dang, like that kind of. That, that could be hurtful. Like, sure, that could of course be hurtful if that's like true and. Or like, because that's true. Not if that's true, because that's true. But at the same time, I'm like, that didn't necessarily, necessarily affect my game to the point where I left the next week or I, you know, I mean, if anything, it didn't really do any damage to my game at all because like I said, throughout the whole season, I just kind of. I. I chose to believe. Not, not like chose to believe what I wanted to believe. I chose to not allow certain things to really affect me because I was focused on the game. I came there to win the game. Any little gnat that kept trying to float around or anything, you know, whatever. And plus, like you said, this is outside. This is after the show. Of course I'm not going to see what's actually going behind my back. I'm not. I don't have eyes everywhere. Although as a Virgo and as a gamer, I would have loved to have eyes in every single room and know everything that's going on, but I can't. So I did my best to do that. So I agree with you. I think a lot of people really wanted me to just like, get out my pitchforks and start like being pissed off. But I'm like, for what? Like, the game's over, you know, like, exactly. It is what it is.
- [314:00]
A
It's just entirely up to you what you feel like, how you decide to feel about a thing. Right? Yeah. And. And unfortunately, that's not gonna please anyone. And at the end of the day too, like, if you did act in a way and in a way to attempt to please people, it would piss a whole other group of people off.
- [314:16]
B
Right.
- [314:16]
A
You can't really go down that path. You just need to be true to yourself in the way that you decide you're gonna feel about something. And if people have a problem with that, then unfortunately they're just gonna have a problem with it. Ultimately though, as you mentioned, it doesn't happen. You the use veto on yourself and Ashley goes up on the block. There is a bit of a back and forth campaign between Vince and. Oh, I say back and forth. It was mostly Ashley campaigning and then Vince made an attempt on Ava, which was not a very good one. And. But none of that mattered either because Vince wins the blockbuster and Mickey is finally evicted.
- [314:53]
B
Can I just Say, that was like the one week where it was actually quite incredible. And I don't. I would have. I would love to hear your guys's or, like, your perspective as like a live, live feeder and watch her, like, to be in the house and to see literally the house as a whole come together and want to get out one person was incredible. I don't know. It was so crazy to be in there and see a lot of people kind of like, like you said, keeping Mickey in the dark. She had no idea. She had no clue that she was going to be blindsided if she did not.
- [315:22]
A
Lauren gets in on it briefly, and she's like, I don't like this. I don't want to lie.
- [315:25]
B
I know Lauren was. Yeah, I felt so bad. I know Lauren didn't want to lie. But I also told Lauren, like, this is really what's going to affect the rest of the game if Mickey even gets wind. I mean, granted. Would she have won that? Probably not. I think Vince was going to win that regardless. But things could have just exploded even more. Like, who knows what we could have seen. But I remember I went to work that night. It was so funny. So Ashley and I, this is like, when we're really chatting about making sure, like, that everything's good moving forward. Like, we want Vince to stay, we want makeup to go and. Sorry. We were in the wine room, Vince is showering, and Ashley and I are talking to Lauren and we're kind of filling her in on, like, hey, like, you know, Mickey's got to go. Everyone's in on this. Just if you. If you want to just say the least amount of like, oh, I'm just 50. 50. I was like. But I told her. I was like, Mickey had told me that, like, because she. She needed to know that she had Kelly's. She needed Lauren's. And then she would have had, like, Ashley's or Vinces depending on. And then she had mine. So she felt I was like, lauren, you are like, one of the key people that she needs to feel like she's getting a vote from because she.
- [316:37]
A
Thinks you were trying to convince her to throw the blockbuster at that point. And she said she'd considered it. Ashley, Mickey.
- [316:47]
B
Oh, yeah, no. So I'm talking about before that conversation where I was talking with Lauren and Ashley and you. What were. We were just trying to, like, really encourage Lauren that, like, it's okay to lie here.
- [316:55]
A
Right. The reason Lauren needed to lie to Mickey was so that Mickey would feel comfortable enough to be willing to throw.
- [317:00]
B
The block Willing to throw or at least know that if she was on the block come eviction night, she had Lauren's vote, right?
- [317:05]
A
Yeah.
- [317:06]
B
So I remember Mickey walked by, saw us three talking, yells at Vince. Apparently Lauren looks at us and she was, like, so scared. Poor thing. She, like, takes off and then Mickey comes in, is like, were you guys talking to Lauren about. And the best part and like, the best excuse we always, like, use when it came to Lauren is like, oh, well, she's a super fan. She knows these potential things. So I'm just trying to, you know, help Ashley and, like, what could potentially come about for this blockbuster? Because Ashley hadn't done a blockbuster yet, so it kind of worked. But then I was like, oh, my God, I know Mickey. And she's not going to let that go because it's Mickey. So I literally had to wake up Lauren out of her sleep and tell her what we told Mickey. So that way, if Mickey came. Came to wake her up, she would know what to say. And Mickey, in fact, went to go and wake up Lauren and ask her, which I think is insane. But I was like, oh, good thing I caught that, because Lauren would have literally just been all over the place. But, yeah, I think that was such a crazy week because Mickey was obviously, you know, leaning. All of a sudden, she was leaning back into me, her and Vince, final three. And I'm like, you were never about this, ever, this final three bs. I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm not believing this, you know, but she's like, I believe in us. We can do this. And then she's like, I really like Lauren. And I'm like, girl, you've met, like, you've always been targeting Lauren. Like, what is happening? So that's when I was like, okay, cool. Like, we have her in a really good spot. Like, she's kind of telling pretty much, you know, Vince, like, oh, I'm going to keep you in this. And all of us. I mean, it was just incredible to have the whole house literally on the same page where, like, everyone. When. During the blockbuster, we were all looking around hoping that Vince was going to win that. That blockbuster. And when he did, it was just like. Although I ended up learning that he voted out Ashley, which I was like, I was hoping. I was hoping that it was going to be.
- [318:51]
A
Never got a real explanation about that either, by the way.
- [318:54]
B
I honestly, if I had to guess, it would probably just be because, like, he was always targeting Ashley since week one. But I honestly, to me, I never understood that. I mean, I just never Understood that. I'm like, wait, but Mickey, like, yes, like, you and Ashley had a little discourse in the beginning of the show, but, like, Mickey wanted you out. She was trying. Like, why wouldn't. I honestly thought that he was ready.
- [319:15]
A
To vote on the Bible that he would vote to keep her. So people were like, maybe it's because of that, but it's like, when, like, this is Vince we're talking about.
- [319:23]
B
Okay. Then that would make sense if he really did do that, because maybe he didn't want to have that on his conscience. But when I saw it, when I heard, like, six to one, I was like, we all thought it was Kelly, because Kelly did say that she wanted to keep. Keep Mickey, but that was just nuts. That eviction was also. I think that was, like, the craziest one next to, like, me and Riley's boat, because I was like, oh, my God. Like, she was fully blindsided. She did not see that coming whatsoever. And that was the last spot before jury was announced. And then we get into the lovely hamster wheel.
- [319:54]
A
Oh, boy, the hamster wheel. I, I, We. We. We did. We did make sure to ask Ava if her arm was okay after the assault. So.
- [320:08]
B
Yeah. Did she really grab it that hard?
- [320:10]
A
No. I mean, I don't. I don't know. I can't say. No. I, we only watched it.
- [320:15]
B
Okay.
- [320:15]
A
I was like, I actually, we. We joke about it, but obviously if it were an actual aggressive physical, then it would be more serious. But, yeah, I. From our perspective, from what we have been able to gather, she was less offended about the actual. Actual sort of, like, physicality of it, more about the, like, overall vibe, like, pulling me away.
- [320:37]
B
That's very, like. Yeah. Because Ava was the kind of person where she didn't want to be pushed too hard. Like, that was one thing I learned about her. Like, she likes to have game talk for a certain amount of time, then she wants to go do her thing. So it's like, you kind of have to be a little bit more careful and more gentle with Ava. Although I will say, and I don't know if this is, like, a hot take or not, I think her winning that she could have literally changed the trajectory of her game to put her in the best position, I think. I mean, it was great for me for her picking Vince because obviously that means, like, Vince would have been safe, and then, like, he would have or he should have picked people in the judges, and we'll get into that. But, yeah, I thought. I thought that she should have. I mean, I guess, like, for my understanding, when I was in the house, she wanted to pick me first because then I would have picked Rachel. Went through the judges.
- [321:25]
A
Her explanation was that she picked Vince because she really. Because at this point, Lauren was one of her, if not her closest ally. And they. They still have that bond girls thing from, like, way back. And so she really wanted Lauren to be safe, but didn't want to, like, pick Lauren. So the one person she knew would pick Lauren was Vince. So she picked Vince so that he would. Knowing that he would pick Lauren.
- [321:50]
B
Interesting.
- [321:51]
A
And. And so he. He did, of course, which. Which, to be fair to him, I. I would say in this situation, this is the correct decision, as long as you're willing to commit to it and not then try to go back to Morgan.
- [322:07]
B
No, for sure, because for me, like, with that kind of elimination style thing, you're obviously, you have to pick your allies and you have to pick your targets. But the other thing that I was, like, thinking about, I was like, wait a second. Like, I listen, because I listened to every direction for every competition, even if I wasn't playing. And the mastermind basically said, like, if you want to rely on your social game and not get picked, you can do that. I genuinely think that Lauren or myself, I mean, I won't say me, but Lauren for sure would not have been picked in that hamster wheel. She would have been safe regardless. I don't think anybody was targeting her.
- [322:40]
A
No, but she could have easily been, I think, like a collateral damage kind of thing.
- [322:44]
B
For sure.
- [322:45]
A
Yeah.
- [322:46]
B
Yeah.
- [322:46]
A
So depending on how. Because. Because the problem is. And this. Listen, I. I don't need to rant about it here because I've done plenty of it already. But, like, the problem is in the. The reason why the idea of, like, being, like, a social thing is that you guys had no idea how long you would need when you were setting up the strategy for it. So, you know, you could, like, throw in Keanu, hoping to target him, and then he crushes it, and then he throws in one of you and you're screwed. Or he could then throw in Kelly and she also crushes it, and then she can throw. Throw in one of you, and now. Now you're, you know, like, it's. It's actually not possible. With a little bit of knowledge, it becomes easier. But you. You really don't know how it's going to be. And you can be like, oh, I won't get picked at all, except what if it's set up in a way where the last people that go are the ones that are screwed, and everyone else has a good chance of getting through it. So it's like, right? It's just. It's just so tough.
- [323:40]
B
Yeah. It was crazy. And I know when Vince finished, like, I remember giving him a hug, and I literally said, pick me next, and. And he said, okay. So then when he picked Lauren, I was like, okay. So apparently now I'm speaking foreign language, and he did not understand what pick me next meant. Cool. Awesome.
- [323:57]
A
And I mean, yeah, this was you on the other side of what most people experienced with events. Yeah.
- [324:02]
B
I was like. I was like, so what the was that?
- [324:05]
A
Like, why even bother saying yes, dude?
- [324:08]
B
I was like, okay, cool. Awesome. And so obviously, obviously, he picked Lauren. And then he was like, I made Lauren promise to pick you. And I was like, and you believe her? Like, we're not aligned. Like, there's a very big chance that she won't pick me. And he goes, no, I made her swear. And da, da, da, da. So then I was like, no, she should not have picked me. But she did. And then I finished the hamster wheel. And that was the other thing. I didn't want to win the hoh, to be fair, and I'm being fully transparent here. I was only thinking about safety. I didn't even remember that that was an HOH comp. I was just like, okay, I'm worried about safety. That was my biggest thing is, like, I'm strategizing on how can I survive this and how can we move to make sure that all the judges survive? So I wasn't even worried about the hoh, which, you know, obviously, in hindsight, that's something that, if I were to ever go back, I would think about that, because it's like, had I won that HOH could have been much different experience or much different result. Who freaking knows? But regardless, that was the one thing that I was like, damn. I really was not. Not thinking as sharp as I usually am, because I was. I mean, that was a crazy twist to all of a sudden have something that big brother's never had as far as, like, this is elimination. I'm like, what? This isn't big brother. What are we doing? But I knew that there was going to be a catch if Lauren were to pick me, and I started picking up on that because she's like, well, who are you going to pick? So, of course, I'm pulling out my acting shoes and being like, I just need to focus. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen, because I'm like, Girl, I'm not going to tell you who I'm going to pick, because you're going to be pissed about who I'm going to pick, because I'm not.
- [325:31]
A
While that she didn't even get the promise from you and still picked.
- [325:34]
B
And still picked me because I was just like. I was like, lauren, I'm so sorry. Like, you know, I really just tried to lean on the fact that I'm like, this is just really stressful. Like, I don't know, like, this maze, like, And I was just all over the place, right? But I was like, I am not going to pick Kelly, because if I pick Kelly, she's going to crush it. If she feels like Keanu will have enough time, she's in pick Keanu, and then Keanu will either pick Rachel, or. I mean, I don't think he would actually target Rachel. I think he was going to pick Ashley. And I'm like, I cannot have people from my side. Go home. This is just not okay. So after that, I remember finishing it. I'm like, okay, cool. And I picked Rachel. And, like, I. I saw Kelly and Keanu look at each other and kind of nod, and I'm like, okay. I kind of showed a little cards here, but it's like, whatever. I knew Lauren was pissed. And then Rachel went home. I'm telling you right now, I would not have picked her if I did not think she could do it. I literally showed her. I was like, if the ball's here, I was like, you have to push it the other way so it carries, and then it drops. You. You can't put it the other way. I tried to give her everything, and I honestly thought that she would have been fine executed properly.
- [326:32]
A
Like, you managed to pull the choice back to your side so that you had control. You set it up in a way where you should have been able to throw a target, and it still might not have worked, but you were able to throw the target of, like, two and a half minutes on to whoever you wanted once Rachel wins it. But. But it didn't work out. Oh, my God.
- [326:53]
B
I'll never forget that. Like, when we heard Rachel has been sacrificed. Like, I remember the first person I saw was Lauren. And her jaw, like, it literally looked like her jaw was on the floor. My jaw was on the floor. I was crushed. Like, I was like, oh, my God, this can't be. Like, we like her. And I just got on the same page. Like, we're gonna work together like this. Like, the judges, like, what? What do you mean? Rachel Is gone. Like, this has got to be a sick joke. Like, this is actually a sick joke. Because then the numbers went from us having an advantage to Loki it being equal. And I was like, it was. Oh, God, it was not good. I was so crushed that Rachel left.
- [327:30]
A
Yeah.
- [327:31]
B
I was.
- [327:32]
A
It changed the whole game or almost changed the whole game.
- [327:35]
B
Yeah. But what I will say is her exit speech is something that I held near and dear to my heart and how I played the rest of the game, because I don't know, it's like when you play with someone like Rachel and, like, you see how she, you know, like I told you, like, she was inspiring me. Like, on the. The killer carnival, you know, portion where, like, she clung to Keanu and, like, just seeing how she was going to bat for her allies and what she was doing, I was like, I can see why she won the game. Like, that is huge. And so when she said, like, if, like, you know, there won't be a bitter jury, like, if you want to win this game, we need to win. You need to win HOHs, win vetoes, get blood in your hands and make a big move, I was like, okay. I called it the blueprint. I was like, there's the blueprint to win this game. I don't know how I'm going to do this because right now I have one veto and I have, I guess, blood inadvertently on my hands, but not directly. Like, I was trying to get my hands messy. I was trying to just make big moves. I was like, I need to start, like, stepping it up. Like, I need to if I'm going to win this game and if I'm going to sit in those final two chairs, I need people to look at me and be like, she is. Is undoubtedly winning this game because of those things. Now, whether or not people actually, you know, were like, that's really the way to win. That's what I took it. And, like, I was like, if a winner is giving me advice, whether people want to believe it or not or take it with a grain of salt, I'm taking this and I'm going to do whatever I can to make sure that I do exactly that to win this game.
- [328:54]
A
And this is really like your era at this point. I mean, obviously you need to survive the week first because Lauren is the hoh. Yeah. She nominates you with Ashley and Will, which was just a bad idea that she needed to. To put up Keanu at the end of the day, like, and we talked about this extensively, that what she needed to have because it was correct to target you or Keanu. She needed one of you out. You were the better option. But she needed both of you on the block on eviction night. Because. Because with the blockbuster, one of you is very likely to win it. And then what she also needed to do was not throw the veto. She needed to potentially win the veto so that she could put Keanu up on the block. But she didn't want to have to piss Keanu off if she didn't have to. So, yeah, I even told Vince that.
- [329:48]
B
When Vince was like, hey, like. Because I was like, vince, I'm on the block. You're closest to Lauren. So let's talk about this, because I. I'm not saying that you have, like, control over her, but you obviously put. Probably saw this coming. So obviously I'm her target. I know she's telling me that Keanu is her target, but frankly, I don't believe that. Because if Keanu or somebody who's not in the block, like Kelly, who she's close aligned with, they're not going to use the veto. Therefore, I'm going to go home if I don't win that. That blockbuster. I already know that. And he's like, you don't know that. I was like, vince, I know that. Like, let's just be for real. Okay? Let's be so for real. And so I felt the same. I feel like if she were really to, like, stack the block, it should have been me, Keanu and even Kelly. She should have told Kelly, like, hey, Kelly, you're my pawn. But I need, you know, I don't.
- [330:32]
A
Know if you can risk Kelly if you're. If you're in that spot.
- [330:34]
B
But yeah, she probably would have put up Ashley. She probably. It probably would have been me, Keanu and Ashley. And then, because that's what. That's what I told bits, I was like, if Keanu was really her target, I was like, I understand. Because what she had told me was like, well, everyone wants to backdoor Keanu. I think that makes sense. And I was like, well, that was like when there was more numbers to get him out. Like, the numbers are dwindling and doing like a back door this late in the game with a blockbuster and taking off someone who could potentially, potentially beat him. It just, you know, it just didn't make sense. So.
- [331:02]
A
And then, yeah, it got worse because, like I said, she. So you go to BB Comics and she stands there at the buzzer for, like, I don't remember, like, 30, 60 seconds and before buzzing in because she didn't want to win and have to either not use the veto or use the veto to get on the block. But it was exactly what she needed. Needed to do, Right? And of course, you end up winning. And now she has to betray Keanu, but in a way where he is so far and away the most likely person to win the blockbuster. And so now she's taking shots at both of you and missed both. And it's just.
- [331:40]
B
Which was. It was great for. Honestly, that was like a huge, like, kind of like, quote unquote bonding moment for Keanu and I. Because the one thing about Keanu is, like, he was pissed that Lauren betrayed him. And it was funny because this. This goes back to his hoh where I was like, look, if you really want to work with Vince and I put up Lauren like that, if that's really what you want to do, put up Lauren. And like, I always brought it back to him. I'm like, look, Rachel's probably rolling over in the jury right now seeing you get screwed over by Lauren, because this is exactly why she pitched Lauren. This is exactly why a lot of people were pitching Lauren, because if she misses on a target like me, she's going to have to come after you. I don't know what you expected. Like, who else was she going to put up? Like, at the end of the day, she is playing this game. She wants to. To have somebody leave. That's going to be good for her resume. And you're the second best person if she wants me out first.
- [332:27]
A
But, yeah, I agree that she was working with him, that she was, like, an actual ally. And that was the thing. When I talked to him, it was like, I. I feel bad for telling you this, but, like, you. You just didn't have any real allies, like, throughout most. Pretty much all of the game.
- [332:43]
B
And.
- [332:44]
A
And he sort of started to come to that realization at around that time. But, yeah, it was rough. This. And this is also, of course, a week where I'm sure you know this by now, but people want. Want to make sure that, you know, that Vince threw the veto as well, which, like, you know, which is. Is, like, not as bad as the other things. So, like, no, I mean, like, I.
- [333:07]
B
Had talked to him, and he's like, I took my time and d. And I was like, in my head, I'm like, well, because he. The way he said it was like.
- [333:15]
A
He took an extra joyride. He was like, I took an extra ride on the zip line, but. But I wasn't throwing, like, yeah, he said that he.
- [333:22]
B
Because he told me that he wrote the whole thing and then he was like, really admiring the comics. And in my head, I'm like, thinking about how I played that game. I was like, I didn't even take time to see the comics. I was just like, okay, difference, like, just going crazy. And so I was like, whatever. Again, like I said, at the end of the day, I won the veto. I agree with you. I don't think Lauren sh should have done that veto. Like, for me, I'm like, if I was hoh and I want something done, I would have probably taken off Ashley. I would have put up Keanu because anyone sitting next to Will would have gone home. So I would have guaranteed a target to go out that week. And it was going to be great. Was you're gonna be going to be Keanu or is gonna be me who was closest to Vince. But that obviously didn't work out. And then this was where it was really interesting because it was. It was an Ashley vs. Will, and Vince and I were going back and forth. Vince was very much. He really wanted Ashley out. And one thing that I learned and the reason why I found more value with Ashley was because Will and Ava were like a me and Vince, where it's like, we would have never voted against each other, especially late in the game, like, once the numbers were dwindling. You can't risk that. You need someone who's going to protect you. And I learned this from talking to Ava when she was saying, you know, like, hey, like, you know, if you vote out Will, I understand, like, Will is somebody that I will never turn my back on. And I know Will had said to the judges, you know, like, he's going to it do what he has to do, but I just truly didn't believe him because I'm like, well, if. If Ava is like your. If. If Ava to you is like Vince to me, nobody could convince me otherwise to vote out Vince, regardless of what he's done to me. Like, I was extremely loyal to Vince. And so I was like, telling Vince, I was like, I know that we enjoy Will more on a personal level, but this isn't about a personal game. Like, this is about big brother. And, like, having somebody who is that attached to to Ava is dangerous. And moreover, he doesn't have as much, in my opinion, pull game wise as Ashley does with Ava. I think Ashley is more relatable to her because of her age, Their girls, they hang out. I was like, it just seems way more beneficial for us to keep Ashley because of her closeness to Ava versus Will, where it's like, yeah, Will would be easier to be. We probably beat him in competition and other things, but this is not the time to do that because not only can we beat him, other people can beat him too. So, like, my logistics was more this is where I'm like campaigning for Ashley as a player without making it obvious to Vince that I'm campaigning for her as a player. Like, if there's a mental comp, Ashley's going to be phenomenal with that. Like if there's numbers or if there's strategy things, if we, you know, need, you know, something like that she's our girl. And I feel like game wise. And he understood that. He even said, like, at the end of the day, like on a game perspective, he understood my argument on that. Do I, do I think he wanted to keep her? I don't know.
- [336:10]
A
But no, I, I don't think.
- [336:12]
B
Yeah, I don't think he did either. That was my girl.
- [336:16]
A
So we talk about this a lot. Yeah. That, like, I mean, it was in almost nobody's best interest to keep Ashley over Will. You were the closest because you actually were the closest person to her and, and benefited the most by her winning a competition. But like, the thing for me, and ultimately, like, there's a world where you can look back at this decision and say, if I had evicted Ashley instead of Will, I probably win this game. And, and that's the perspective.
- [336:45]
B
Yeah.
- [336:46]
A
But I will say that, like, for you in particular, it did make a lot of sense. There is at least a lot of sense to be had in the idea of keeping Ashley because she, she was closest to you of anybody left in the house and she was not going to take you out until the very end and she would need to beat you in order to do so. Whereas with Will, as you mentioned, he could potentially be an asset for anybody. And if you didn't go on the winning streak that you did.
- [337:16]
B
Right.
- [337:16]
A
You know, having Will there doesn't help you at all. Having Ashley there does give you some help.
- [337:21]
B
Yeah.
- [337:21]
A
So it's a tough one. One because it's like if you look at results only, you probably do win the game if you actually. But it did for you in particular and almost nobody else. It did make some sense to keep her. Yeah.
- [337:34]
B
And I honestly just like valued her as a player. And I feel like for me especially moving forward, like, it was at a point in time where, like, probably the time that she could have decided to take me out because the one thing too is like, after I won three vetoes, I don't remember what week that was. I remember having a conversation with Keanu, and I was. We were in the gym, and I was like, yeah. I was like, bro, this is like, I'm kind of understanding where you're at. Like, I'm gonna have to win out to win this game. Like, I'm everyone's target, Ashley included. Like, I didn't say that out loud, but I was just, like, I literally said I'm everyone's target because it would be foolish of me not to be everyone's target, you know? And I remember even talking to Ashley, and I was, like, getting a little choked up because I told her I was like. Because I was so passionate about the game, I was so proud to be in the position that I was in. I knew I was in a good position, but I also knew I was in a very risky position. Position as well. Like, it was like, I said I was gonna have to win out, but I remember telling Ashley, I was like, no one's gonna take me to the end. Like, you know, and, like, she just kind of was like, you know, like, her little cute little little thing that she does. She just kind of, like, did the little thing.
- [338:34]
A
Exactly.
- [338:35]
B
You know, I'm talking about, like, the little Ashley thing. And. And so then she told me she's like, you know, if. She basically was just saying, like, if it came down to, like, her, me, and someone that she didn't feel deserved to win, she would take me now. Now, did I believe her? No. Because I feel like at the end of the day, you're going to take the person that you can beat. You're not going to take somebody that you just submitted. Essentially, you can't beat. Right. So it was hard because that was the first time where I was like, dang. Like, I know I'm playing this game for myself now. Not entirely, but, like, I have my allies, but, like, I also know that there are going to be prime opportunities, like the double H, like, double eviction, to take me out, to take Keanu out. Like, there are going to be these prime time positions, positions where I could see myself walking out the door. And that's also why I strategized so much of the M and M's, because I was, like, trying to figure out everyone's possible move. And so, like, kind of having that realization of, like, okay, jury phase. Like, I'm a huge target underneath Keanu, but, like, as the numbers are dwindling down, I'm becoming almost bigger of A threat than Keanu. Because I think people would can sit and argue that, like, I had a better social game and strategy game and overall game compared to Keanu, that if they had to choose between me and him to take, they would probably try to take Keanu over me if that came down to it. So I was like, yeah, I am not getting taken to this finals. The only way I'm going to make it to this end is if I win the first part or second part and then the last part. Hoh. Or if Vince takes me. I didn't think Vince wouldn't. Depending on, like, where the things dwindled down to. I do believe that he would have taken me, but with the weeks that.
- [340:11]
A
Were, I still don't know to this day. I. And I'll never know because I won't believe.
- [340:16]
B
Yeah, right, Right. I mean, that's so fair. It's so fair, you know, and so I feel like when.
- [340:20]
A
I mean, evidence points to him taking you because at the end of the day, he did always end up choosing you. But it's just, you know, you just.
- [340:30]
B
Yeah. But back to the Ashley Will thing, that was, like, one thing that I thought about all the time, because I do believe you. I do think if that vote was different, that I could have won the game. But at the same time, I still. Like I said, I told Julie, like, if I were to go back, I would do things all the same. I would not change a single decision. Like, I would do it all the same because for one, I had a great time playing. And in those initial decisions and what I told myself, like, every day, I looked in, like, the little mirror, I was like, I'm not gonna let anyone deter me from my decision. So I knew that week, even after talking to Will, like. Cause Will, Vince and I, we kind of lost, locked in like this. Like, we didn't really lock in a final three, but we kind of locked in an us kind of thing. But then I was like, I don't know if I'm as passionate about my duo as Ava is about Will, because Ava loved Will down. And, like, I do think that she would have picked Will over Lauren, over. Over Kelly. And you never know. Like, it could have been something like a Jack the Dipper or something where. Where they could have won, and I would have been up on the block next to Vince. It just could have. Anything could have happened. Ashley could have done it too. It was just more of, like, in that moment, I wanted to have someone that would kind of be an asset. Not saying Will Isn't. But, like, as far as, like, competitions and things, I just really saw more value in Ashley than I did Will, and I felt keeping a more valuable player was better than someone who, honestly, even if Will was at the end, I mean, Will could potentially win this game if he want went all the way to the end on just a social game, like, strictly social, not winning anything.
- [341:55]
A
Like, he could have won a jury. I mean, the thing about Will is that he is the perfect person to bring to final three because he can't win the final three hoh and nobody will take him to final two because he's too likable.
- [342:08]
B
Exactly.
- [342:09]
A
But, like, up until then, that's only if you know you're gonna win every competition down to the final three. Exactly.
- [342:16]
B
Because I was not thinking I was gonna win everything. So that's why I was like, okay, I do. And whether or not it was true, but I was like, I do believe that Ashley is on my side of things. Like, she does want me in the game. Could she have targeted me a double hoh or double eviction? Yes. Like, I was prepared for anything, but I was like, I'm willing to take the risk and keep Ashley and hope for the best that, like, I can get the judges to the end. Because again, here we are again. Losing another judge, that was really hard for me because obviously I'm an alliance girly, and I wanted the judges to be towards the end. So I was like, here we have to go make another decision. So that's why my mission was to make sure I got the judge, judges, Ashley, Vince, and myself to the end. I was going to do whatever it took because I'm like, I'm an honest girl. I'm a loyal girl, and if it's the last thing I do, I'm gonna make sure that they make it to the end.
- [343:05]
A
Have you. Have you heard the. The Vanessa comparisons?
- [343:09]
B
I have. I have.
- [343:12]
A
First of all, I think obviously, like, there are some sort of, like, you know, getting cut at the final three, being a, you know, a dominant woman player. I get that. I do think you play play very differently. But another one of them, you talked about using the M M's to map out all the scenarios. Famously, she used skittles. Yeah.
- [343:31]
B
I was laughing because people were joking and they were like, you know, it'll be down to the final four, and Morgan's still pulling out the M M's. I'm like, yeah, I'm still gonna. They're still gonna come out, and I'm gonna go over every scenario. Every single time.
- [343:44]
A
I would love to see you and Vanessa, even just in the same room would be pretty fun.
- [343:50]
B
I'd love to meet her. Yeah, I would love to meet her.
- [343:54]
A
Anyway, will is Vince wins the hoh. This is perhaps the longest week of my life.
- [344:07]
B
Oh, my God. That. That was the. The. The pressure cooker, right?
- [344:12]
A
The.
- [344:16]
B
The. Wasn't the pressure cooker one. That was the. The. What HOH was that? I'm losing my mind.
- [344:20]
A
This was the. The. The quiz, I believe that he beat.
- [344:26]
B
Yes. Oh, my God. I was panicked because I knew when it was down to him and Kelly, I was like, oh, my God. I'm either going on the block or I'm safe. And I was elated that he won. Thank God. I was like, okay, cool.
- [344:40]
A
Whoo.
- [344:40]
B
Like, I made it another week. This is great. Now what the hell is going to happen?
- [344:45]
A
Literally, I believe the night before, the question was asked on a podcast. Like, or maybe it was the night of. It was like, who is the most entertaining HOH to win? And somebody said, vince, because he'll have to choose between Morgan and Lauren, and that'll be very fun to watch. And I said, it'll be fun to watch for you because you're not the one that's going to be up till five in the morning. And little did I know how true that was, because it was every night.
- [345:10]
B
One got sleep that week. Funny that y' all thought y' all were gonna get sleep, because no, sleep did not exist for me that week because I remember. Oh, my God. That week was insane. I remember we. I. I was like, okay, Morgan, like, time to really. Time to make this big move. Time to really get to work because. Oh. I was like, okay, ideally, I see Kelly, Keanu, and Lauren up on the nominations. This makes sense, because if his target is Kelly, then, you know, it makes sense to obviously put up Keanu because, you know, Keanu had put him up. I was like, it's kind of like a way to be like, hey, bro, you put me up already. But Lauren was the tricker because it's like she was a mental. Like, she had won a mental competition and she had won a physical competition. She had like, oh, Tev is both. Like, she had won competitions, improved.
- [345:57]
A
Yeah, she was a huge competitor.
- [345:59]
B
She was a huge competitor. I mean, like, she was 30 seconds behind in the BB comics and in the basin break in. I was like, I'm. I was like, I don't know if anyone else is viewing Lauren the way I am, but this girl is a huge threat. Like, she's very likable. Like, we need to get her up on the block more obviously. I wanted to get her evicted. However, the angle that I used was like, if you want Kelly out, having Ava up on the block, like, who has shown throughout the season this is like no shade, but shown throughout the season that she cannot win a mental comp or a physical competition, you're essentially doing what everyone else has done throughout the season, which is putting two targets up. One of them comes off from the veto, the other one comes off from blockbuster, and you lose somebody that you don't actually. Actually intend on losing, that's not a good hoh, and that's not going to be good for your resume. So. God, I worked for hours, Morgan.
- [346:47]
A
I. I counted at one point, and I believe it was 10 or 11. 10 or 11 times it went back and forth. Meaning you convinced Vince to put up Lauren.
- [347:02]
B
Lauren.
- [347:02]
A
And then he talked to Lauren and it flipped back. That was one. Then it would happen again. And I believe it happened. Happened at least 10 times in the course of a couple of days that he kept going back and forth.
- [347:14]
B
I believe it. And it's funny because I knew I was going to. I knew the nominations were going to be what he initially had, because after we talked, I gave him everything, and he's like, okay. He's like, I'm just going to, you know, go talk to Lauren. And like, that was the first time. I mean, I obviously had that quote that I said about it and everything. I just didn't understand why, as an agent hoh, you know, you had to ask permission to put someone up on the block. Like, it's like you're going. You get the permission slip, you're gonna go and have them sign it, and then you're gonna go turn it in, and you're gonna make sure that production's okay with it. Like, I was just like, what? Like, you're the hoh. Like, you don't need to ask anybody anything. Like, do you see the vision? You agree with the vision? What is happening? And, like, this was like, the second time because the. The hamster wheel. I mean, there was a couple times that I. That I started clothing clocking. How close? Like. Like the. The closeness. As far as a final two with him and Lauren, you know, this one's particularly was where I was like, okay, like, we go in the backyard, we're on a lockdown, and they are in a conversation for the entire time. I mean. I mean, oh, my God. The whole time. And I'm like, I I saw Kelly try multiple times to interrupt the conversation.
- [348:23]
A
You should have heard the conversation.
- [348:24]
B
Oh, I would have loved to. Oh, my God. There was. There was so much in me that, like. I mean. I mean, I was watching. I was like, oh, my God. Like, I was like, I know it. Exactly. What's going to happen? Like, she's going to get emotional. He's going to feel something, because he. He usually tends to, like, feel really bad when. Especially when emotion is used. So I was like, oh, my God. Like, she. She's going to talk her way off the block.
- [348:48]
A
It's.
- [348:49]
B
And it's.
- [348:50]
A
Yeah, it was. It was more.
- [348:53]
B
Okay.
- [348:54]
A
This is how it went. It was like, okay, I've come up with an idea. If you go up on the block, you know, Morgan and Ashley will work with you. And she was like, that doesn't make any sense. It was essentially like Keanu pitching. And she's like, that doesn't make any sense. And he's like, okay, well, but I mean, I. I just really need you to do this for me. Please. Like, please, please, please, please, please, please.
- [349:14]
B
Please, please, please, please, please, please.
- [349:15]
A
A hundred times. Please. Please do this. Please, Lauren, come on. Let's. Let's do it. Let's. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's.
- [349:22]
B
Let's do it.
- [349:22]
A
Let's do it. Right. Let's do it. And she's like, no, that was like. Like, literally for, like, two hours. I was just like, oh, my God.
- [349:33]
B
I was driven. I was getting driven crazy. And the other thing that was really good for me at this time time was Keanu. This is where I was really leaning into Keanu and kind of, like, really kind of getting him to be like, team Morgan, because it's like, hey, we're getting out, Lauren. Like, let's make sure this happens. And so I really kind of, like, leaned into telling him, like, yeah, man. Like, I really hope Vince does this. And it wasn't even, like, me really throwing Vince under the bus, but kind of making it seem like, hey, I'm doing the work, Keanu. I'm trying to make sure that Lauren goes up, so if she doesn't, it's not my problem. Like, this is something that, like, maybe we can, you know, kind of figure out. I was never going to turn my back on Vince, but I needed Keanu to feel like I was weird willing to leave Vince and go work with him so in case it doesn't happen and Keanu does want hoh. I may be safe and he may target Vincent Lauren. But, God, I had worked so hard. I remember watching. I knew she wasn't going to go up because after they talked and everything, Benson talked to me, and she was very, like, giddy in the bathroom. And I was like, okay. I was like, okay, I'm gonna just, you know, clock in again, and I'm gonna, you know, wait for my turn because I need to cook. I need to get this done. I saw the nominations, and I knew right then and there I was like, I'm going to win this veto. I'm going to use this veto on Ava, and Lauren is going to go up on that block. Like, I was determined there was going to be nothing in my way. I don't care what veto it was. I don't care if it was another Walcotom. I was going to win the veto. I was so determined to win that veto because first of all, I was like, I mean, obviously I didn't sleep very much throughout the season, but I'm like, this was like, intentionally, me not sleeping and all of that hours. I mean, I'm sure you felt it. All the live feeders, we were up for hours together. Guys, is. Hello. All of us were dying to get this done, and it doesn't get done. And I'm just like.
- [351:16]
A
And then it just immediately would get undone in the morning and then redone and then undone and then redone. And then Vince and you. You clocked it. Like, he had a final two with Lauren and he was, like, planning to take her. And like, he, like, you'd have a conversation with him and. Yeah. And then he'd be like, whatever. Because you were like, if you think you can be Lauren in the final two, you have nothing coming. And he'd be like, he'd talk to the cameras, like, whatever. I still think I beat Lauren in the final two.
- [351:43]
B
Well, because Vince had a tell. Because, like I told you, I, like, studied players and I knew their. Their, like, little quirks and things. When Vince lied, he would, like, kind of smile or laugh. One time we were talking and I was, yeah, yeah. And I was like. I was like, do you have a final two with Lauren? And he's like, what? No, no, no, no, no. She just, you know, proposed, you know, a thing. And I, you know, I just didn't tell her no. And I was like, so you have a final two? And he's like, well, no, it's not like that. And I was like, huh? So I was like, okay, no, I.
- [352:17]
A
Turned down the final two.
- [352:19]
B
Yeah, I was like, okay, so can confirm. Which is also why I was like, okay, this makes sense. Like, why us three haven't been able. Because. And also when he was like. Because this was after we. I used the veto, finally convinced him to put her up, and we were upstairs, they were having a one on one. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna go interrupt this one on one, because I don't know what's happening, but I'm gonna go interrupt this one on one. And that was when we have a conversation where this was, like, the first time. I was actually, like, pretty honest with Lauren and she. I mean, I've always been honest with her, but I mean, like, very brutally honest about this week because she was saying how, you know, like, this is where we were kind of, like, mesh, like, mending it kind of felt like it. Because I think Vince really wanted us to work together because he. He said he was like, yeah, this is like, final three.
- [353:04]
A
And I need to just briefly interject here because this was a huge thing too, because Vince would constantly tell her that you were trying to get her on the block and then, like. And tell you, like, he was, like, continually keeping you at odds with each other. But then when. When, like, the consequences of that came to him, he would then, like, at the last minute be like, oh, no, Morgan, she loves you. Right? Like, and it was like, why would I. Obviously that's not true. Like, like, you should have done more earlier, man.
- [353:35]
B
Yeah, because I made an analogy one time and I was like, I feel like you're in the stands and you're watching me and Lauren, like, go against each other, and whoever wins the game is going to be who you end up with. Like, whoever takes each other out. Like, I feel like you're just sitting there being like, ah, yeah, like, look at them go at it. I was like, which in. In turn is a smart gameplay to, like, have your two people that are riding for you go at it.
- [353:54]
A
I was like, I feel like they do to be on the same page enough, like, Cody does this with. With Danny and Nicole in All Stars is that he manages to separate the two of them so that they're both most loyal to him. And he causes a little bit of beef, but not enough beef that they're targeting each other. They're worried about each other's, like, safety because, like, Vince is literally, like, getting out of a conversation with you and then going to Lauren being like, yeah, she was just trying so hard to get you up on the block. And I'm not going to do It. But it's so annoying. And it's like, how are you? If this is how you're. You're talking to them. It was just so frustrating.
- [354:33]
B
And I think, too, it's like, if he would have played it to where it's like, I have two people that are like, having me be an untouchable, I should take them to the final three because they'll both. I'm a guaranteed final two.
- [354:47]
A
The way to do that is to get you to not target each other.
- [354:49]
B
Exactly. Get us to not target each other. So I remember we were up there, and I remember this is when she was kind of explaining more about, like, her hoh and why she. You know, because I told her. I was like. I was like, here's the thing, Lauren. I was like, Kelly and Keanu have been like. I was like, they. They're like a cat with a million lives. They. They cannot get eliminated. Like, they cannot get evicted. So the way to do that is by putting up somebody who is well rounded to make sure that the target leaves. Um, and so then she was like, well, that's what I did on my hr. So I was like. I was like, actually, I don't think so. I was like. And this is just kind of where we just had a real open conversation where I was just kind of like. Like, I just kind of basically was just like, look, I know you wanted me out, even though you're gonna say you didn't. Like, you should have put Keanu and I both up on the block. But it was just. That was just, like, a moment where Vince thought that we could work together, just because I was being honest about, like, my genuine thoughts on, like, why her being up on the block was not the worst case scenario. Like, obviously, she's not gonna care what I have to say because she's pissed that she's on the block. Makes sense. I'd be pissed if I was her, too. I would be looking at me like, morgan, like, why are you even saying this to me? But it was more of just, like, getting the point understood, which was why I was, like, driving it with Vince. It's like, you want Kelly out. Some people want Keanu out. So in order to make sure, because this was the first time this season that we didn't have Kelly or Keanu essentially determine our fate in the game. And that was like, my main driving force with Vince. I'm like, every week, people have put them up with a pawn, and the pawn has either gone home or somebody else has gone home. Because vetoes were used. This is the time where if you put somebody up who can beat them, just like, whether it's a physical competition or a mental competition, we can actually finally get out Kelly or Keanu. And that's exactly, like, what happened. She won the blockbuster. And to be fair, that was really hard for me because I know that Vince made me promise her to keep her, even though I did not want to. There was like a little, you know, discourse with that and there was a discourse with Lauren and I. Because I know when I. When. When I ended up telling her that I was unsure, that was the first time that she, like, essentially threatened to jury vote. And I was like, oh, this is what we're doing. Because she was like, well, I'll. That's something I'll remember in the jury. And I was like, you know, that's when I tell her, like, you know what, Lauren, like, I totally understand that, but I think if you understood where I was coming from, you would understand that that is kind of a little bit. It's a lot more complicated than you think. Like, that conversation is a lot bigger than what you think. And like, I ended up explaining it to her in my exit or like, in her. Her goodbye message. But that was just a. That. That was a hard week because it's like I obviously cared about Benny as a person. I know that that hurt his game, but like, God, that was so good for my game. Like, that was exactly.
- [357:24]
A
I mean, you.
- [357:25]
B
What I needed, basically.
- [357:28]
A
I think that it was. It was around that time. It was like, if you could pull this off, you. You've basically won the game or close to it. And because Vince is never going to beat you a. In a jury vote after this week. And. And Lauren is your biggest competition threat outside of, like, Keanu at this point. And. And so it just. It. It felt like it really was when you completely took over the game and, uh. It was such. Of. Of, uh. I would say it was probably very fun for people to. To watch. It was definitely grueling to. To cover, but it was a very fun move and it really, like, I. I want to make this so, so clear because I feel like, especially if you haven't been watching lately, but like. Or hadn't been watching live lately, like, the end game of Big Brother has become a massive slog. It's. It's long and drawn out and often very boring and very comfortable competition focused and. And a lot of people tune out at the end of the season and this season entirely because of you. You kept people glued to this, it was like people got even more invested in the final weeks of the game in a way that, that I have not seen in 10 years of covering the show, that I have barely seen in 25 years of watching, watching the show. And it was incredibly exhausting for me because I'm usually able to coast by that point, but it was also incredibly rewarding. And, and this was the start of that. We really felt like after the Rachel hamster wheel thing, the season was going to taper off. It was just gonna kind of like, okay, now everything's gonna be very simple. And. And instead it, it got even more intense. And this week, back and forth all week long, heading into a double eviction and then even into the final five and then even into the final three, it just never relented. So. And that I think again is so emblematic of who you are as a player. And that thing that I saw in day six, which was that you are not going to. Going to just sit back and let things happen. You are going to take the game by the reins and force it in the direction that you want to go. And, and that's. That's what I think I admire about you most as a player. It's like, it's the most fun thing to watch is somebody who is willing to just push and push and push and not ever relent, never let up. Yeah. And you know, it's. It was very. It was very fun. Yeah. And it worked. You got Lauren and listen, and the thing is like, obviously Lauren didn't leave that night or that, that eviction, but she did leave that night. Yeah.
- [360:34]
B
And you know what's crazy is like at first I generally felt really, really bad because I know that like we had a moment in the hoh room where she like got emotional and I was like holding her and like getting emotional too, because it is sad like when you. When you take yourself out of the game for a little bit and you. You realize, realize, like, oh, wow, like this person can leave. Like they were passionate about winning this game too. Like, it was really hard and it was never something to be like, you know, like, haha, like in your face. But it was more of like she was in a better position. And the thing that I always, that I viewed was one, Ava and Kelly would have never touched her. They loved Lauren. Vince was the same way.
- [361:07]
A
So that's three people, our girls, final three.
- [361:11]
B
That's cute. I love that. I always wonder what their name was called. But they had a final three and then Vince was also very adamant about keeping her. And I was like, oh, you just leave me and Keanu and Ashley. And at that time, me and Keanu were big targets. So Lauren was in the best position in the game.
- [361:27]
A
And it's flower power, I think.
- [361:29]
B
Oh, cute. I love that. That's cute. Flower power. So my thought was like, okay, I can see that while Lauren's social game was not as good as, you know, like, other players in the house, she still hadn't been on block the in 70 days, which obviously, like, Chelsea used in her finale speech of, like, having a certain amount of, like, extensive period. And I was like, there's a potential that people will overlook or not take into consideration. Her, like, social game as heavy as just the fact that she was able to go as long as not being on the block, not being a threat, like, not being like. I looked at her as somebody who could if she went to the way I like, especially when I was working the M and m's, I'm like, okay, she has the potential if she survives this double hoa or there's this double eviction to make it to the final three. No, no problem. She will have literally multiple people in the house take her to final three, and then she can probably win this game because, yeah, she was prime spot. And I'm like, okay, any person playing this game would want to have that position or want to hinder that position. So that's exactly what I did. I needed to hinder that position so that way I was in a better position. And it worked out because we, you know, Kelly left that night, which I obviously wanted Lauren to leave that night. But Kelly was fine because she was still part of the trio. The whole point was to hit the trio somehow hitting the trio. We needed somebody to go, and it wasn't going to be Ava. I really. I still would go back and use that veto on Ava every single time. There was a little brief moment where I thought about using it on Keanu, but again, I was like, still the whole point. And like, my driving factor in my pitch is having three huge targets. So if I use it on Keanu, Keanu, I'm kind of, like, negating my own pitch. So that just isn't smart to do because then it's just now it's just kind of feeling different. So I was like, no, we're going to keep him on the block. Take off Ava, because I'm fully confident that either Keanu or Kelly and plus Keanu had the boats like me and Ashley were going to keep him, which was, you Know what we did. And then it was the first tie of the season, which was great. And then we see Kelly in her exit interview, which I love. I love Kelly for that. Kelly was a good. She was a. She was one of my favorites. I really did. Really did like her. But it was quite interesting with the exit speech that she had where she was basically threw Vince out and was like, he has a final two. And I was just like.
- [363:46]
A
She had been, what have you been.
- [363:47]
B
Doing in this house?
- [363:49]
A
She had been mad at him since the Adrian vote and had been basically kind of, like, playing along with him as much as possible. Like, knowing. Knowing now, like, this guy's a weasel guy. I can't trust the thing he says, but I need to keep playing it up with him as much as possible.
- [364:07]
B
Yeah. I was hear her little. I was not expecting her to say something. I was like, oh. And then, of course, like, as I'm hugging her goodbye, it was like, and he's gonna do whatever Morgan wants. I was like, damn, Kelly, you really got to say that loud, girl. Like, you.
- [364:22]
A
Yes. Yep. And then you win your. At this point, your fourth hoh, I'm going to say.
- [364:32]
B
I was like, wait for no. The double addiction hoh was insane. And you know what's crazy is, like, when I saw it was a little bit of a physical thing, I'm like, I have freaking heels on. I have this. You know, I have Ashley's cute little orange top. Like, shit. And I was like, I can't take it off because that's like. I mean, I'm wearing it. Like, it's just. I was like, oh, my God. I was, like, flustered. I was like, okay, I need to win this double addiction hoh, because to me, my opinion, especially as a player and, like, if I was to ever give anybody advice. Once you hit the jury phase, sometimes it's really dangerous to, like, like, not win things or to throw things because, like, we've seen vetoes and other that if you throw a competition in that segment of the game, you could potentially throw your entire game. So I was like, okay, like, I'm gonna win this hoh. I can't risk. Especially because Vince is outgoing. So I felt like it was really me against the world because if I don't win this hoh, I'm probably going up on the block, and I'm probably going home. Unless Keanu is also up on that block, and people find more value in getting rid of him than me. Me. So my strategy in this hoh was to actually overthrow the Balls instead of under throwing because you had to wait for it to come down. So I was. My strategy was to overthrow. I end up winning the hoh and it was incredible. Oh, my God.
- [365:40]
A
Ultimately, the best strategy for that comp is bouncing it off the wall. Right. And I feel like you.
- [365:44]
B
I did at one point.
- [365:45]
A
You. You can't. You got to that at some point. Yeah, yeah.
- [365:49]
B
So I had three up there. Ashley was doing well, Keanu had two, and I was like, okay. Like it sounds. Because that's was the one thing I love about live ones or where you're kind of getting the live feedback is like, I could hear who else was close. And so once I had four, I was like, okay, this is the last one. Got it in there, locked it in. And that was where I was like, okay, cool. I knew Vince and I were probably the biggest targets going into this double eviction hoh and now we're both safe. And now I can take control and do what I need to do to get my big biggest target out of the house and have my first hoh, which was exciting.
- [366:30]
A
Yeah, I was pumped about that. It was a very short one, but yeah. And then. And then there was a little bit of back and forth about this, and I don't remember what the conclusion was because obviously you have this. This veto moment. The people were a little bit like, did she did. Was that on purpose? Was that not on purpose? I. I believe my memory of it was that it was not on purpose.
- [367:00]
B
Correct. So, yeah. The way I in that veto, when I knew it was Keanu and I in the final in the. I was happy. I was like, okay, cool. Because I was going to use a beat on camera.
- [367:10]
A
Yeah.
- [367:11]
B
And to be honest, I was like, okay. Like, would it be nice to have four in a row? I don't know if that would have been a record, but I was like, would have been nice to have four in the row. Sure. But, like, Like, I'm not going to let my, like, ego get the best of me here. My mission is to make sure that Kiana comes off this block and to ensure that Lauren goes home. So when I heard that it was Keanu and I in the tiebreaker, I was like, oh, perfect. Like, my HOH is going perfect. Which is why, like, when you see me holding up, I'm smiling because everything that I want to happen is already going to happen before it happens. Like, I was just, like, so happy that my HOH was going to be successful. And that's why I immediately pulled Keanu. I was like, like, hey, just so you know, like, I was going to use the veto on you, like, just so you know, because I wanted to make sure that he knew, like, you are not my target. Now, would this have helped if he went hoh. Like, that wasn't really me trying to get him to not target me. But I'm like, hey, maybe if I tell him this because I genuinely mean it, maybe he might be like, you know what? Actually, let me get out Vince. Let me get out somebody else.
- [368:04]
A
But yeah, so I wouldn't have gotten the. The jump.
- [368:07]
B
No, right. The iconic jump. And here's the thing. I actually. So I wrote 60 in the top corner. Cause I was going to guess an hour because I knew it was probably just maybe an hour and 20, maybe less. And then I blanked. I'm looking down and I'm like, okay, 60 minutes. Cool, 60. I was like, okay, 1:20. Great. Morgan, what the hell is this? Like, I was laughing. Like, in my head, I was laughing. I was shaking because I'm like, I had the right answer in minutes. Like, if that was two seconds, I would have won that veto. I don't know why I could not get the minutes to seconds. I am just like. I'm like, maybe I should have paid attention in math class or. Actually, you know what? I was really making fun of myself. It's like what I told you in the very beginning. I had freaking flashcards of, like, each thing. And I'm like, morgan, what were the flashcards for? If you don't even freaking remember, like, what were the point of those flashcards in freaking sequester. But at the end of the day, I was like, whatever, this is going to work out. Keanu is going to win the veto. Happy for him. I was going to use it on him anyway. So at least I don't have to like, because here's the other thing. And I was really glad I didn't win because had I won and use the veto on Keanu, that could have potentially permanently damaged my game relationship with Vince to the point where he might have put me up as like, hey, I see that you were, like, intentionally trying to take out Lauren as far as, like, a. I don't think he would have either, but I don't know if he would have been like, dang, like, I knew you were coming for Lauren, but to, like, ensure she left. I was not a aware of that because of the promise you made. I was not sure what he was going to say. However, I knew that he was going to ask me if he could vote to keep Lauren. I was like, sure. Like, I'm not worried about it. Like I said, there's some things I'm not going to argue on, especially if it's not going to change the, like, the end result. Like if it was going to be a tie or like, not actually that there couldn't be a tie if it was going to be something different. I'd been like, vince, don't piss me off. But. But yeah. So that was. That was a good, crazy time. The competition, the veto.
- [370:03]
A
Yeah.
- [370:03]
B
Having Kelly and Lauren leave in the same night. I was not expecting that to be the. The double prediction, but it was huge for my game.
- [370:09]
A
This was huge. You get to the final five and this was truly the time where it was like, like, genuinely, this win is. Is all but clinched for Morgan. If Keanu loses his veto. He, of course, having already lost the hoh.
- [370:29]
B
I don't know why he was so, like, because I was watching and like, he keeps looking at Vince. He's not paying attention. It's gonna fall.
- [370:37]
A
I guess you. I guess you. You couldn't hear what they were saying, right?
- [370:40]
B
No. We had no audio, but I could see them talking. And it's funny because, like, when. When Ava came out and then when Ashley came out, I literally said, I was like, watch, guys give it 10 seconds and they're gonna start talking. They're gonna start. And immediately, immediately started talking.
- [370:53]
A
It. It. You may not have a lot of experience with this, but it immediately turned into like, exactly what a slumber party with 14 year old boys sounds like. They were talking about like anchorman and farting and oh, man, you know, we've been like the last boys left in the house for so long. Like, did you know that? Oh, it's so good to have some uninterrupted time with you. And it was like, that's hilarious. Keanu does not realize that his life is on the line right now. And. And ultimately he. He gets distracted and it slips off.
- [371:39]
B
Yep. Thank God for me.
- [371:43]
A
Yeah.
- [371:44]
B
My ass would be up on that block.
- [371:46]
A
Mm. I mean, you still would have won the veto. So if Keanu. I think we've gone over. If Keanu wins this, it's you. And then it just to like, does he actually take the shot at Vince?
- [372:00]
B
Right. I'm curious. I was gonna guess either me or Vince or me or Ashley because I think he felt that he probably could have beat Ava.
- [372:07]
A
Right. I mean, and I think I probably talked to him about this too, and I'm not remembering what he said. I think, yeah, obviously you're staying. And then. And then he can't compete in final four. Hoh. Which is the one. So you still would have won that no matter what. And then for veto was. Was the one you crushed also. Right.
- [372:34]
B
Yeah.
- [372:34]
A
So you. You were probably not losing that. Yeah. I think we talked about this. So I, I don't think it would have super mattered here, but.
- [372:40]
B
Right.
- [372:41]
A
But either way, he doesn't win this. Vince, by the way, is still telling Keanu after winning the final five. Hoh. Yeah, I'm targeting. I'm targeting Morgan.
- [372:53]
B
He told me that. He said he's like, yeah, I'm just telling Keanu what he wants to hear. In my head I was like, yeah, no, for sure.
- [373:01]
A
And so you win this. There's not a lot left strategically here. This is when things do this. The rest of this week is. Is pretty slow because you're kind of all just waiting for Keanu to. To actually be evicted.
- [373:14]
B
There's not much slowest time. I think we had like two full days off. I'm like, what is taking so long?
- [373:19]
A
And even that it was sped up to what a normal. It's normally a full week. So it was actually even sped up, which. Which was so nice that it was sped up because it was a very slow week. But there was definitely, I would say, like Ashley does a ton of good jury management with Keanu before he leaves. You already had his vote by then.
- [373:43]
B
Yeah.
- [373:44]
A
Because he saw that you were controlling Vince. So it was more so for Ash Ashley to end up beating Vince that. That she did some of that. And then we get to the final. Final four where this. It's just a, like, just the slaughter. I. I said. I think I said like, it was not even fun to. It was like watching an NBA player play against high schoolers. Like Ava moved the dice like once and you had finished. Yeah, it was. It was ridiculous.
- [374:21]
B
Oh, I was getting after it because like, it's like I didn't know because like that kind of game too could have been anyone's game because as long as you had the correct evidence facing up, you were going to get it. So when. When Ava on the second round had hers facing up, if she got it right, that was just a 2 to 1. Like she could have been up 2 to 2. Like it could have been anyone's game. I obviously felt more confident. Confident in that one. But those are the kind of games that you can see people overthink and then think way too much about a solution. So basically what I did before we found out which evidence piece they were requesting is, I looked at every single one and mapped out how to get it. So I was like, okay, cool. I'm gonna see this one. I'm do this, this, this. And then the last one I kind of struggled with because I was, like, really pushing that thing where I almost flew onto Ashley's side of things, and I was, like, trying to jump it around and everything, but super happy that I got that hoh Knowing that I was going into the finals, it was kind of surreal because I'm like, oh, my God. I'm going to final three. Like, this is crazy.
- [375:21]
A
Like, I. Listen, I need to apologize to you because I might have jinxed you. I did. When Keanu lost the final five veto, I do think I made a tweet that said that, like, basically already congratulating you as the winner. I was like, oh, no.
- [375:36]
B
Somebody find the tweet and tag me in it right now. Oh, my God. God. I'm be like, you know what? Blaming Terrence.
- [375:42]
A
I believe I said very likely. I think I said very. I. I hedged enough. But I really did. I really did think it was pretty much locked in because I just didn't see you losing the final three comps, and I didn't see. I guess, more importantly, I didn't see Vince losing part two.
- [375:58]
B
I mean, I didn't expect to win part one. Like, part one was an endurance.
- [376:03]
A
Well, that would have. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, that would have been, I guess, better if. If Vince had won that instead of you. I don't think you lose part two.
- [376:11]
B
No, I don't think so either.
- [376:13]
A
Yeah.
- [376:14]
B
Yeah.
- [376:14]
A
You might have still lost part three, I guess, considering, potentially, because Vince.
- [376:18]
B
Yeah, Vince was actually, like, pretty good at those kinds of booth things, and I always second guess myself in every booth comp. I did it, like, throughout the whole season, but I know what's it called. Yeah, like, final four winning the hoh, like, obviously, it was so weird. Like, putting, you know, Ava and Ashley. But obviously, obviously, that was, like, my only option then winning the veto, like, being, like, the first person of the season to have an HOH and veto in the same week was really cool. Just having full control and just knowing that, like, like I said, I wanted the judges to make it to final three, and just seeing that come into fruition was really cool. And knowing that, I was like. I don't say, like, the only driving force in that, but, like, Vince and I, we essentially were just back to back to back. Like, we were. We were kind of doing what I said would have happen if, you know, if Riley and Catherine were a strong, you know, showman's duo. Like after a while you start controlling the votes. Like Vince and I controlled the vote on the Ashley will eviction because it was like us too. Like, it was 2 to 1. Like, just kind of went forward with that. So that was, it was, it was really humbling and also just like kind of crazy because it's like, you know when you have people coming up to you being like, hey, you know, like, congratulations. Like, I mean, I remember Ava was like, hey, congrats, you won the game. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, Ava, like the game is still going on. You know what I mean? But that was something that was interesting to me because like, obviously the whole season I wasn't thinking about the money. I wasn't thinking about anything. I was just kind of gaming, planning a couple weeks ahead but still staying in the week and just kind of going back and forth between a couple weeks ahead, back to current, couple weeks ahead, back to current. Started thinking about, like I said, like the blueprint that Rachel gave me and like who I was going to take, who I felt I could be, who I would rock rather sit next to and just kind of go through all of those kinds of scenarios because obviously you want to take someone that you know you're going to beat no matter what, but you also want to take somebody that if you do end up sitting next to them that things that they can claim, they either are sitting in the jury to, to not be able to claim or if you're sitting next to them, you can combat their claim with yours. So I was just thinking a lot at final four. I was like, okay, like I made it to final final three. Like, now I really need to figure out the options. I started figuring out the options of like, who I would want to take and like, what arguments I would have. Like, once it was final five because it could, it was anyone's game at that point and there was still a chance I could win a veto to save myself. And so that was just kind of where my brain was at in final five. Was like really trying to think of like my game as a whole, looking at other players games, what they would argue if I was them, how I would, you know, like pitch my win and all those kinds of things.
- [378:52]
A
Yeah. And, and again, it's like I wouldn't even say the choice between Ava and Ashley was like, it didn't really matter. Like, yeah, they were Both. I think maybe you could say that, you know, Ashley was probably going to be better at the quiz in part three, but. But Ava had won more comps at.
- [379:16]
B
That point, and I think she had locked votes. I don't know if that would have.
- [379:20]
A
Been a thing, but had locked votes.
- [379:22]
B
Yes.
- [379:23]
A
Ava had Lauren, Kelly, and Will for sure, no matter what.
- [379:26]
B
Yes, I fully. And that was the thing that I told Vince about. I was like, vince, she has locked votes. And people have said all season, if Ava makes it to the end, she's gonna win this game. Doesn't matter if I was sitting next to her and I was like, hey, guys, like, I played a great social game and strategic, and this Ava was going to win that game because all it takes was one. One more person to vote. And it could have been someone like Rachel or Ashley who thought that a social player or someone like Ava could have won. So I knew that I would much rather take the judges and be able to have that as, like, a driving force in my speech of, like, hey, like, I managed to, while we lost two jury members, make sure that they made it to the end, like, proving my loyalty, proving everything, and then just being able to, you know, obviously, outside of, like, the competitions, but being able to, like, just show my strategy and show that I was, like, willing to make a big move. I think a lot of people didn't know what I was going to do when it came to, like, who I was going to take out. And I know that, like, like I said, when I got that, like, blueprint from Rachel and knew that, like, take making a big move, like, I just knew that Vince was going to be my big move because he was my number one ally and nobody would have ever expected me to take him out. And I feel like at that time, if Ashley only had won the part two, or let's say she, like, you know, Vince won the part one, which we can talk about that too, because there was a part of me that thought about what that would have been. It was like, if I'm able to take out Vince and show the jury, like, hey, not only did I have a huge hand in his hohs and not have much blood on my hands, I'm also eliminating him. I'm evicting him to show that, like, I came here to play this game and play my game, and I don't think anybody would have expected that because people wouldn't have expected Ava or Will to cut each other. And I don't know if they would have expected me to cut Vince and Also at that time.
- [381:11]
A
Yeah, like, it's. It's the sort of thing like knowing what we know, you know, I. I think you beat both of them. Very likely. At least from what we've heard.
- [381:21]
B
I agree.
- [381:22]
A
But you. You do probably beat Vince more handily, but, like, I don't think that should be the case because.
- [381:28]
B
No, I agree with you.
- [381:30]
A
I think cut it not. Not because Ashley shouldn't have more votes than Vince, but because cutting Vince should be the more baller move. You know what I mean? Like, that should. That should really like. Like that. That should be the more exciting thing. You know, obviously taking him is probably like the smarter choice, but like, I. That would have been a very exciting end to the. The season as well. Like, you know, taking Vince and beating him is like, oh, okay, fine. Cutting Vince and winning the game. That. Now that's.
- [382:04]
B
Yeah. So, like, I just. I don't know. For a while I had thought about. Which is why you kind of start to see. Cause I don't know what they showed on the show, but in the live feeds, you kind of start to see, like, our conversations kind of go from like, really heavily strategizing to kind of like, hey, Vince, let's just like, chill. Let's just talk. Let's have fun. Because, like, I couldn't bring it to myself to tell him, hey, I'm not bringing you.
- [382:26]
A
Are you bringing me?
- [382:27]
B
Yeah, right. So it's like, so the part one hoh. The part where crazy, right? I mean, the thing was too, is, like, I also kind of took myself out of my shoes and looked into another perspective. Like, yes, his jury management was terrible. But if you think about it, if you look at someone who has been. Who's lied and manipulated to the point where he makes it to the end, because every single time, people went back and trusted him again. Time and time and time and time after multiple backstabs, multiple instances, Instances. Because our games were so polar opposite, my thought was like, okay, because they're so polar opposite, this could end up being a very split jury because do they value someone who's going to sit there? Because I thought he was gonna be like, yeah, I did lie, I did manipulate. I did do these things. This is why I did that. Like, I had Morgan on the other side working for me for this or whatever. I don't know what he was going to do if we were sitting next to each other. But I had looked at the optics of, like, if I was a juror and I saw someone like Morgan. Morgan and someone like Vince and They both stood there on business explaining their games. It could have been a toss up because how do you. The one thing I admired about Vince's game is he never had to win a veto. Coming from people, coming from someone who had to win a veto as my ass was gone, it is so impressive to not have to win a veto. Well, and being a target, like, I.
- [383:42]
A
Think this is why, like, there's, there's especially like, in terms of like the edit that this that was on the show. It's. It can be hard for some people to understand why he lost because on paper, the game looks pretty impressive and it sort of like, it takes a lot of. Sort of understanding of like the way that he handled the relationships that he did.
- [384:08]
B
Correct.
- [384:08]
A
To understand, like, why some of them were so upset with him.
- [384:13]
B
Correct.
- [384:13]
A
And, and then also, like, you know, then you start to look at like, many of his decisions led by Morgan and, you know, so on and so forth. Right. But, but like, yeah, like on paper it, it seems. And, and if you're in that moment, you have to be thinking, like, I see Vince this way, but what if that's just what he wants me to think? You know what I mean? What if I'm wrong and I'm just being tricked?
- [384:42]
B
Right.
- [384:43]
A
I don't be. I'd be concerned about it.
- [384:45]
B
Yeah. I mean, I know that he had been saying, he said after Lauren got on the block, he. He literally looked at me and was like, you know, you just made a game winning move. Right. So, like, from then, from that point, I knew that if Vince can look at me like that and think I have a winning game no matter what he says, like, whether he did have poor jury management, like, take me, take me. I already knew that my big move was going to be cutting him because I'm like, okay, cool. Like, you can acknowledge on your. Your own own hoh. That I just made a game winning move. I knew I was making a game winning move. And now I can claim that I'm making a game. Not even claim I can say I am. You're validating it. Which means if I send you home, that's not only not home, but if I send you to the jury, that's not only a vote for me, because how could you not vote for me? But the other reason why I wanted to take Ashley is because when you look at people who played very similarly, you have to take off the table the same things that they have. Like, I feel like I was a little bit more loyal than she was because, like, obviously I Found out after that she wasn't as loyal to the judges, but, like, obviously that doesn't really matter in hindsight, but, like, we were both honest and loyal players. So, like, to me, that goes off the table because it's like, okay, that's the same argument, like, the judges, kind of the same similar thing. Like, do I think that I planted the seed to essentially allow Rachel to gain trust in me? Yes. Did she facilitate it? Sure. Amazing. Like, that's why that was, like, so that was like, that's why her and I that week were probably, like, really huge players that week. It's like, Morgan made up with Rachel. Ashley helped facilitate creating this, you know, alliance. That's huge for both Morgan. Huge for Ashley as well. And then it just comes down to looking at the moves on the game, the competitions, all those things. And I feel like that would have been a really fun, like, final two. And I do believe that I beat Ashley. But like I said, and I've said this multiple times to two things can be true. People can say that I was deserving or like, I should have won the game where I was the best player the season and Ashley deserved to win the game. Like, two things can be true. I also feel like Ashley's feelings on how she played on her game are also very valid. Like, we are our own people. You know, like, everyone has their own decisions, their own feelings. Keanu could evenly. Could easily be, like, yeah, if I was in the finals, I deserve to win. Absolutely. Like, everyone has their own perspective on their game. And I feel like, for me, the only thing that I know I can say stand on is that, like, every decision I made, I already knew I was making those decisions. I didn't have anyone deter my. My decisions. I was more so trying to deter other people's decisions to make it to where they were, like, my decisions. And I just wanted to make sure that, like, when I was in those final two chairs, if I made it there, that it was going to be just undoubtedly, like, okay, how can we not vote for Morgan to win this game? Like, she just did her thing.
- [387:25]
A
Yeah. And I mean, this is. This is what I. I loved about, like, the end game of the season. And really, like, the season as a whole, ultimately is that, like, despite it being probably definitely the messiest season in terms of strategy I think I've ever seen, at the end of the day, like, the two players that came out on top were both represented. Things I really enjoy about the show. You, as I've talked about with, like, very active, active Gameplay, like not letting other people guide your decisions and like playing self interested in. In a way that is so admirable. And then Ashley as the more sort of like under the radar, not able to win competitions and figuring out a way to. To succeed in spite of that is. Is like another one of my favorite things to see. And it was so cool that both of you ended up making it to the end together in a spot where one of you was going to win. And. And. And that doesn't happen that often. A lot of times we're looking at an end game and it's like, you know, like, like I said, I enjoyed my conversation with Keanu, and he absolutely, you know, would have won the competitions he needed to if he got to the end, but that wouldn't have been very satisfying.
- [388:44]
B
Right?
- [388:45]
A
You know what I mean?
- [388:45]
B
Honestly, I think, I always think, like, it if, like, who would Keanu beat if he was in the end? And like, I think like I said, everyone is going to have their different perspectives because one thing I did realize, especially like I said with Ava, like, she had locked votes, so she was dangerous to take to the final three because couldn't. Could Vince and I have beat her in the part one, part two, Absolutely. But it's still, like I said, there's a. There's a chance where one of us doesn't win the part one and part.
- [389:08]
A
Two out on part two. Who knows? Ava probably still could win there. So for sure.
- [389:12]
B
And so, like, I even thought on part one, which I want to watch that one back because I had people being like, how on earth did you do that one handed? And I was like, I don't know. Like, I was literally trying. Just so I remember, like, when it went, I couldn't even tell how it was, but it looked. It felt like I was literally planking in the middle of the air. And I literally gave everything I had. I mean, I was like, grunting, squinting. I had asked Vince if he had heard me because I literally felt like I was just gonna, like, scream and yell. And I knew Vince was gonna have a hard time because he did not do well with spinning competitions. He said that from the very beginning. So I was like, okay, cool. Like, I have an advantage here. Because the reason why I also wanted to win part one is because I had won a physical competition, a mental competition. Like, you needed that one. And, yeah, I didn't have an endurance comp. So it's like, if I'm gonna sit there in the final chairs and be like, hey, I'm an All around player. If I didn't win an endurance comp, how can I claim that? So I wanted to make sure I had part one. I mean, I obviously do think that I would have done exceptionally well in part two, because it was, like, finding I had, like, I was telling Frankie, like, when I was staying next to him, like, my strat that I would have done and how I would have separated the blocks. And then, like, I'm really good with directions, so I feel like I probably would have taken a little bit because I don't want to sit here and be like, oh, I would have, you know, got that. Because Ashley was also very intelligent. So was Vince. They're both intelligent people. And I think the card in the middle of a competition, like, that is meant to trick you. It's meant to make you think of something. Because they both did the days. And then Ashley caught on and was like, oh, my God, it's not the days. So I don't know if I would have gotten it right away. But I also know that I'm very attention to detail, and I read everything. So I feel like had I read that and been, like, the order, I'm like, oh, okay. Like, Amy went and this person.
- [390:50]
A
Yeah. And also I feel like it's more likely that Ashley messes up after Vince messes. Like, given that he had messed it up, like, it was more likely that she was going to do the same thing as him. Whereas if she had gotten there first, maybe she interprets it differently.
- [391:05]
B
100, there's a chance for anything.
- [391:07]
A
Yeah, exactly. And so it's like that to say, I think that, like, the odds of somebody messing up in general are fairly low. And I think that you probably. You probably went and you also probably do the blocks even faster.
- [391:20]
B
Oh, yeah. Because the thing that I first pointed out to. To Frankie is when Vince was doing it first, you can tell that there was a border. There was a black border, but he was putting it opposite. And I was like, oh, he's not even doing a puzzle. Like, how you usually do the border. And then on the. The table, which is what he realized. It showed, like, where the colors should be. But, yeah, it's just like, I think that competition a lot alone is just like, it can. It's always anybody's game. That's what I would tell every single person. Even going into, like, the dice rolling hoh when Ashley and Ava walked out, they're like, oh, congrats, Morgan. You won. Hoh. I'm like, guys, you don't know, like, you really don't know what can happen. I always would tell people, the high.
- [391:58]
A
Schooler beat the NBA player.
- [392:00]
B
Right.
- [392:02]
A
I just need to make a full court shot. Yeah, it happens.
- [392:07]
B
Yeah. So I don't know. It's just a crazy game because, like, when I think back to, like, the finals and, you know, obviously navigating the end and, and knowing who I'm going to take and like, having conversations with Ashley, having conversations with Vince, like, it's. It's just hard because it's like, obviously, like, one thing about Ashley, which is so funny because like I said, there's a lot of things that I, like, picked up on, on people, but I just really didn't care. Like, I remember early week one, she had mentioned, you know, like, her apartment in New York and, like, the amount of money she, like, spent on it and whatever, and I was like, wait. I was like. And I remember because she. We laughed about it one time because she was like, yeah, you kept asking me about, like, social media, media marketing, because I was like, something was not adding up with Ashley. Like, something was missing to me with her. Like, there was something more to her, which is why I kept saying, like, people are sleeping on Ashley. Like, I don't know what it is. I couldn't. Obviously, I, I was never going to guess that I'm like, that she's a lawyer, because I don't think you ever just go into a competition or a game and think, oh, that's the lawyer. That's the doctor. This is this.
- [393:02]
A
You, like, the person that I think, like, had the most respect for, not the most necessarily, but, like, you were somebody that, like, despite all of the many of the people around you looking down on her, you were somebody that I, That I saw at least often kind of being like, I, I think you're underestimating Ashley.
- [393:21]
B
I said that multiple times.
- [393:24]
A
Yeah. And.
- [393:26]
B
Yeah, go. No, no, go ahead.
- [393:30]
A
And I, I think that that's part of why you were so open to working with her as well, because you saw the potential there that some other people didn't. And, And I think that, like, you know, it's. Again, it's. It's just. It's funny that you sort of found each other when you did in this season, then came together and sort of dominated the rest of the season in, In, In. In very different ways.
- [393:54]
B
Yeah, no, definitely.
- [393:55]
A
Yeah, it was. It's. Like I said, it's. I, I guess it's easy for me to say because I didn't lose, but. But I was very happy. Happy to see again like, the both of you have so much success because, you know. You know, I just. I really. I really love the way you played the game. I really thought that, like, the. The. The. And I'm so happy that it's being recognized and rewarded, because it wasn't. And this is the thing I want to make sure I say, because I think that, like, after the fact, that fact, a lot of people have been like, you know, like, Ashley won with a social game, and Morgan was like, a competitor. And I don't really like that categorization, because, first of all, I think Ashley was a very, very strategic player, even more than a social player. In fact, maybe much more than a social player. And I think that you were an incredibly good social player, even more than, like, a competitive player. Again, you were the person that people rallied around, adopted the language of went. Yes, you did end up dominating competitions. But like me, as a person who does not usually root for the competitor of the season, because I think competitions can be very boring when it's. What are we watching? If I. I should be watching the challenge if all we care about is competitions. Yeah, but you were not just a competitor. And I. And I. And I. And I think that many people do know this, but I don't think that everybody does or at least recognizes it in the way that they should, because you were somebody that even. Even outside of, you know, getting Vince to do what you wanted, even outside of being a part of a big majority early on, you really were a driving force of strategy and of, like, social structure in the house throughout the entire season, and you just kind of closed it out with a. With a phenomenal com comp run, obviously, but. But I think people remember the comp run, and they don't remember all of the other stuff as much. And that's the stuff I really loved about your game.
- [396:04]
B
Yeah. Thank you. I think that's something I think about all the time, because I know when I was in the doctor I don't know what they showed on the show, but, like, I went into the house wanting to focus strictly on my social game the first half of the season because I knew building relationships and garnering those and, like, making sure that they are solid, even if they obviously have loop, like, little holes in them, like, just to, like, make sure I'm patching those up. Like, that was most important. I didn't want to go in and just start winning competitions because then you kind of fall in the shoes of Keanu, where you are just a huge target. And you better hope you Win something. Now, obviously, he had to win because he needed to, so that's a little different. But, like, I really wanted to focus on my social game the first half of the season, which is why I'm not super adamant about winning certain competitions. And I'm just like, okay, like, I'm looking at the field of who I feel comfortable. Comfortable with. Like I said in the Twin Witness news, I didn't feel threatened to, like, win that, you know, competition, so I felt great. There's just certain things I was like, okay, like, I am going to make sure that my social game is as good as I can possibly get it. And then when I need to turn it on, I need to turn it on because, yeah, I. I don't know. I. I know that after watching Big Brother for years that sometimes just being a comp beast and only having that is not going to get you far in the game. It's just going to come of give you, you know, competition accolades. And I wanted to. To, like I said, I wanted to make it to the end and have it to be where people looked at me and be like, wow, like, Morgan, she really did that. Socially, strategically, competitively. All the things I didn't want to be known for just one category. I wanted to be everything where it's like, if I was sitting in those final two chairs, I was going to win that game. And, like, it was nice because, like, I spoke to Rachel after the show and, you know, I even spoke to Keanu and they were like, if you were sitting in the those final two chairs, like you were gonna win that game, like, there was just no chance that you were not gonna win that game. So, you know, but I mean, I didn't win. And it's okay.
- [397:52]
A
It is okay, you know, and because it happens and, you know, we. I just watched. I won't spoil it, But Australian Survivor vs. The World aired recently, and there were a lot of players in that season who were in similar spots where, like, they were the de facto winner, but then got. Got caught right before the end. And it changed how they approached the game this time around. It seemed to where they played it a lot more safe because they were like, all I need to do is get to the end and then I'll win. And then turns out they changed their style, their play style. They didn't end up winning in the end. And it's like, this is ultimately, I think, like, in terms of, like, the position that you went out in, win is like, in my opinion, the. The least. It's like you have the least to be ashamed about about or like, like beating yourself up on because you came as close. I know you weren't in the final two, but you were about as close as you could get to winning the game without winning the game. Even closer than somebody that wins that, like, gets a close jury vote because all it took was just like, you know, a couple extra questions or Vince not crashing out or, you know, any number of things. And you are like the winner of that season. And I hope to see you play games in the future and I hope density and drive to future games because I don't think that there's a lot that you like, should have changed necessarily about the way that you approach that end game. You really were in a very good position to win.
- [399:27]
B
Yeah.
- [399:28]
A
And, and yeah, it's. It was a pleasure to watch.
- [399:32]
B
Oh, thank you. Yeah. And I want to set the record straight too, because I know a lot of people were like, oh, Morgan's catering to Vince. She's not studying like she should, and this is why she lost and whatever. And I think a lot of people need to kind of like, take a step back and see, like, I was literally gaming 25, 8 in that house. I studied every single night, every single day. I knew every single thing. And it also was just at the point where I was like, this is the end of the game. And I remember saying a prayer, being like, whoever is meant to win game is going to win the game. And if that's not me, it's not me. Like, I thoroughly felt that whether it was me, Vince or Ashley, we were all deserving winners. I think we all played very different games and I think each of us, like I said, we're deserving of winning the money, deserving of first. So I really just did not want to just over exhaust myself with more studying and to where I'm just like, I want to just to be able to like, wow, this is the end of Big Brother. I'm walking around the house. I'm enjoying the hot tub. Like, I'm, I'm chilling, chilling. I'm. I'm trying to come up with the final speech, which I also loved. Everyone was like, morgan, what was your speech? You're a gamer. Lol. And I'm like, well, this is the thing that people that I also want to say is like, I did not have an actual plan for my speech. I was going to go from the heart. The only thing I was focusing on is how can I drop the bomb that I'm a gamer and I understand it's like, oh, bingo, it's a gamer. I remember Rachel in the season said at one point when she was trying to get us to see the light on Keanu, she. She was like, he's a gamer, which means he's strategic. And it means that, like, this and that. And so I'm like, okay, cool. Really glad I didn't tell Rachel that I'm a gamer and she is a gamer. Like, she's played games and stuff. And I know a lot of people who might not be in the gaming space might not understand this or might think, morgan, it's not that big of a deal. But that's also why I wanted to go on the show was like, to bring light to gamers and to show, like, we are so strategic. We think of so many different options. Specifically me, obviously, I can't speak for all the other gamers, but, like, I obviously play a game, one of my favorites. It's a battle royale. It's like the last team standing. So it's very similar to Big Brother, the last person standing. Like, you got to do whatever you got to do to get there. And I just wanted to be super proud of myself as a gamer, a female gamer, and just make it to where it's like, okay, whether people think this is going to hit, I want people to know that I'm so proud to be a gamer and that people around the world who are gamers or want to do, like, I just wanted to make that hit, but I know that a lot of people were like, lol. That's her. That's her speech. She's going to get cooked. I'm like, well, that wasn't my speech. That was just. How can I figure out how to drop the most important thing to me? Because obviously, I mean, it took me five weeks to have this conversation with you. I. The first thing thing I did when I got back home was right back into streaming, right back into what I love, right back into what I do. Like, that is just me as a gamer. And I. I was actually. One thing I thought was crazy was how Rachel had, like, what, 201 doctor sessions in the first half of the season, I think, and I had 200 in the whole season. I was like, damn, if I get invited back, I'm going to use the doctor a lot more. I had some people be like, girl, you need to talk to the feeds. Like, Ashley gave us the feeds, like, you know, or gave us the straw on the feeds, like, you need to give us all the tea. I was just so Locked in. And I just was like, okay, cool. Like, I'm gonna do this. Like, so I'm, like, learning now to, like, if I do come back, to be more vocal in the Dr. Sessions, to talk to the cams and give people an idea of what my brain is thinking. Like, because I know, like you said, there was a lot of times where you guys didn't know if I was gonna use the beat on myself or you're like, what is Morgan thinking? Like, I wasn't really giving any, you know, juice, but I was just.
- [402:49]
A
We love it when you talk to the cameras.
- [402:51]
B
Yeah.
- [402:52]
A
Listen, at the end of the day, you can. You can say as much as you want in the doctor It's. You're still very much beholden to what they decide to air.
- [402:59]
B
Yeah, no, true, true.
- [403:00]
A
And quite frankly, Speaking of season 17, even Steve Moses talked to the cameras a lot. And they didn't always show it, but, you know. You know, you can. You can do your best. You can. You can do your best. And they usually show the camera talks. I think they just didn't like Steve very much.
- [403:14]
B
They probably just like Dr. Will's camera talks, specifically. Those are.
- [403:17]
A
Yeah, camera talks. Exactly.
- [403:19]
B
Shout out to Dr. Will.
- [403:22]
A
I do. I still do personally think we missed out on a you versus Ashley final two where you both drop. Where she drops. She's a lawyer and you drop. You're a gamer.
- [403:31]
B
I think I would have just loved that. Yeah, I would have loved that. I know I would have loved it. That would have been the first time, too, in the history that two black women were on the final two chairs. Like, that would have been really cool. But either way, I think what's crazy is, like, finding out about, like, the record I have now, which is, like, what? Like, the fact that I secured seven weeks of safety. The only way I could have been taken out was in the finals. Like. Like, that's crazy. Did not know that until I got after the show, so it's kind of cool. Like, and I think you say it perfectly. Like, even though I left in third, like, I am genuinely, like, so proud of the game that I played. I wouldn't have changed a thing if I did it all over again. And I don't know. I'm hoping I. I get a call again, but I.
- [404:13]
A
You have to. I mean, they're idiots if they don't bring you on some show. You're everything that the casting should want in a player, in my opinion. Like. Like, for any show, too. It can be physical. It can be mental. Like, I Think. Yeah, it's. It's. It's a no brainer, in my opinion. Yeah.
- [404:34]
B
But. Yeah. What a. What a game. What a. What a time. That was kind of crazy.
- [404:40]
A
It was. It all. Yeah, listen, it's. It was a lot. Like I said, it was a lot. And, you know, I'm. I'm, like, very happy it's over, but I'm also very happy that. That it happened.
- [404:53]
B
Right, right. Who do you think would have been, like, if you would have created your perfect alliance, like, who do you think would have been a really good alliance?
- [405:00]
A
For me to be in or for me to watch?
- [405:03]
B
Both. Let's say if you were in the house, like, who would you have picked? And then if you were watching, who would you have liked to see work together that maybe didn't or, like, did?
- [405:11]
A
Let's see. I mean, I think. Honestly, I think that I would have gotten along really well with Keanu because. Because, first of all, I'm a bro. Second, we both like Linkin Park.
- [405:24]
B
Oh, my God. Can I just say that? Like, Rachel's Britney Spears album and then Keanu's Linkin Park. I literally fell asleep listening to the album. I was obsessed. He picked Linkin Park. I was like, dude, I was like, I can't stand this guy. I want him out of the house. Like, stand him on a game level. Let me make sure. Everything that I've ever said has always been game level. I don't have any hate hatred towards anyone on a personal level, but I was like, oh, my God, Linkin Park. I was like, of course I'm going against this guy. But, like, dude, he seems so freaking cool. He's listening to Lincoln Park. What? I love it.
- [405:57]
A
It's also tough, though, because, like, like, obviously I would have worked with, like, Rachel. Like, Rachel would have been my number one. Like, I know I knew her ahead of time, but Final two immediately before.
- [406:09]
B
The show, you're like, hey, hey, we're gonna have a final.
- [406:10]
A
Exactly. And we would have pretended we didn't know each other.
- [406:13]
B
You're gonna pretend. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's the Strat. That's the real Strat.
- [406:18]
A
And listen, on this season, I don't think anybody knew who I was, so I would have been fine. Other than. Right.
- [406:22]
B
I would have thought that you were just a guy.
- [406:24]
A
Cover season 24, Frenchie was. Or season 23. I mean, Frenchie was coming from my. My neck, but yeah. So, I mean, listen, I think, honestly, there are a lot of people on this season that I think I would have gotten along with. But. And the problem is that many of them from different sides, I think. I mean, you know, I don't want to be presumptuous, Morgan, but I think I would have gotten along very well with you. Being a gamer myself, I was hoping.
- [406:56]
B
I was like, if you don't mention my name, I'm going to feel somewhat offended right now. I feel like I'm going to be like, well, this is over and I'm getting. Deep dive is done.
- [407:06]
A
Yes, it's. It. Well, it's like, know I don't want to. I feel like I'm presuming that the other person would get along with me and so I need the. The validation from you that you would agree. I think we're getting along pretty well.
- [407:18]
B
Yeah. No, I feel like what, six, almost seven hours. I think we're getting along just fine.
- [407:22]
A
I think we brains for like not caring how long we're talking about strategy.
- [407:28]
B
I mean, we can keep going if you want. We can really get into. No, I'm kidding.
- [407:31]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So. And then, I mean, honestly, in terms of the. The alliances, I thought that, I mean, the judges was a perfect alliance for this season. I mean, you and Rachel and Ashley and Will. Because listen, people. People love Captain Will and where did.
- [407:51]
B
I put that Captain?
- [407:57]
A
Oh, here it is. Here it is, folks. Love captain Will. Yeah, I love that. And then, I mean, Vinnie. Vinnie was know I had a lot of fun at his expense, but he really brought a lot of entertainment to the season.
- [408:16]
B
He was great to work with. I feel like if I were to redo everything all over again, like, I would have want, like I said, I wouldn't have changed the thing. Like, he was so fun to work with. I think what I love the most was like, we were just strategists. We were gaming all day, night long. Like every scenario. Like I remember someone was like laughing. So I guess I had fell asleep asleep with the M M's on like the bed. He like picked him up and then I woke up and was like frantically looking for them because I thought about something like, I just am laughing. I can't wait to actually, like eventually, like watch some clips back or something because just thinking of how like anal I was with the game is very me coded.
- [408:52]
A
Let me. Let me give you a series of my favorite sound bites from the season. This was. This was. I'm gonna be doing a sound bite tournament on Twitch for all the best sound bites of the season. This is my top contender. This one.
- [409:04]
B
I'm pooping my pants. Oh, my God. I used to tease about that. I'm like, elsie, did you poop your pants or what?
- [409:12]
A
And then. Then this came later.
- [409:14]
B
Oh, I know. Vince is just pooping himself right now.
- [409:18]
A
Pooping my pants. And then. So.
- [409:22]
B
Really? That's so funny.
- [409:24]
A
We have a conclusion to the trilogy a little more subtle.
- [409:29]
B
Do I take advantage of this chance to flush my number one, number two, foreign. My pants. Oh, my God.
- [409:42]
A
I couldn't tell if that was intentional on your part, but it really fit the theme.
- [409:46]
B
It wasn't, but that is incredible. I didn't even. That is hilarious. I love that. Jesus, not the flesh. That is hilarious. Oh, that's so funny. I love that. Oh, wow.
- [410:00]
A
Oh, there was actually another one. This is. This was a diary room. You had no. Somewhat toward the end of the season.
- [410:09]
B
I am not about to let anybody come in between me and Vince making it to that final two. Except for my.
- [410:17]
A
Did you know. Did you know how close this was to a Rachel Riley quote? Really? Yes. Famously, Rachel riley in season 12, every one of her goodbye messages said, no one gets between me and my man.
- [410:31]
B
My man. Yeah, that's right. She told me that on the show. Show. Wait, that's so funny. Oh, my God.
- [410:37]
A
I was like, man, she really has inherited the spirit of Rachel.
- [410:40]
B
Oh, man. I love that girl. That is so funny. Yikes. I was gonna cut him, too. My bad.
- [410:46]
A
I know. Oh, man.
- [410:51]
B
God.
- [410:52]
A
Anyway, anything else you wanted to. To talk about or bring up?
- [410:56]
B
I don't know. I just. I don't know. I'm grateful that you can, like, see my game for what it is, because I know, like, I've seen a bunch of, like, you know, because that was one thing. I didn't want to watch any deep dive. I wanted to come in here and have, like, literally a full slate. I haven't talked game with much of anyone, really. I mean, I've talked a little bit, but nothing as, like, deep and, like, concise as this. Haven't watched any other deep dives because I wanted just to make sure that when I came on here, it was like I was just being fully into, like, what I know. I mean, like, there's a lot of things I found out. I'm like, even, like, the. I knew about the final three because Keanu told me about his final three with Riley and Vince. But, like, I didn't know that the girls actually had an alliance. Flower power. I didn't know about other alliances. Like, like, that's so cool. I mean, it's really fun to kind of hear how people were Also gaming, because I feel like even with Will, he kind of always tried to play this whole, like, oh, I'm just, you know, here, and I'm just here, like. But he was gaming too. Like, I mean, I remember there was a conversation we had in the outside where he was like, yeah, like, we don't have a big alliance yet. Like, what are people waiting waiting for? Little do I know he's in a huge alliance, which, you know, is so funny, but. But, yeah, I don't know. I. I think that game was just so nuts and I'm really proud of the way I navigated through it and, like, just grateful that I. Because, like, before going into the show, I was always somebody who kind of let people kind of make decisions for me in a sense of like, or at least when I was younger, not like immediately right before, but like, when I was younger I used to. To. To struggle with, like, standing firm in my decisions and things. So I knew I was like, oh, if I go on this show, I'm gonna prove to myself the growth that I've had since I was in my 20s. And I feel like for me, that was like, where I really felt a big win. Even though I didn't win the show was like, I was able to prove to myself, like, not only am I gaming in real life, but, like, I am making these decisions. I'm not letting anyone change my mind on anything at any time. There was not a single single time where I flipped a decision.
- [412:49]
A
Defining your game is how steadfast you were in, like, going for what you wanted and not letting other people, like, distract you from your goal.
- [412:58]
B
Right.
- [412:59]
A
Like, and I, I would never know, like, if you hadn't said that, I would have never known you that that was an issue for you in the past. You know what I mean?
- [413:05]
B
Yeah.
- [413:05]
A
So watched you on the season.
- [413:07]
B
Right. So it's just kind of cool to see. I mean, I talked to one of my best friends after the show and she's like, Morgan, like, I'm so proud of you. There was people in this, in this house that like, when you were younger would have basically been the demise of your game because they were a little bit like, like, too domineering or they were too, like, wishy washy or whatever. Like, you just stood to yourself. You didn't let certain things bother you. You didn't let people's pitches or whatever deter you if that wasn't already on your agenda. You know, I just wanted to make sure that I was playing my game and I did my best to make sure people were playing the game I wanted them to play for me, but it was fun. I think the best part about that, that game is knowing that other people are on there playing their game and their best game. I always said, even in the Drs, no unsportsman. No unsportsman. Like, conduct over here. I wanted everyone to play their best game, because if everyone is playing their best game, then I'm going to be playing my best game, if not better, because I'm playing amongst people who are really, really trying. So that's why I always just wanted just to game constantly. I didn't want to be in the Dr. Very much. I just. Just wanted to play the game. And so I'm proud of myself for that. And I think I'm also proud of the fact that, like, I was gonna make big moves. I wasn't afraid to upset people. Like, I wasn't afraid to be honest to their face and be like, yeah, you know, I did want you on the block, or, sorry, I'm not voting for you. Like, just really happy that I was basically my entire self. That game. Like, I can't look back and think of a time where I was like, you know what? Like, that wasn't really, you know, a game move I wanted to do. Everything that I did in the house was exactly what I wanted to do. And being the only person on the. The right side of the boat was insane. I was like, oh, look at me. Yeah, getting what I need done.
- [414:41]
A
Don't beat yourself up about the Doctors. Like, Rachel Riley is always, as a returning player, was always going to get the most amount of Drs, you know what I mean?
- [414:48]
B
Of course.
- [414:49]
A
And then, like I said, at the end of the day, like, it's, you know, it's down to the producers. They're going to choose which story they're telling, and they were telling Rachel's story up until she left, and then. But then it was your story for the most part, you know.
- [415:05]
B
Yeah.
- [415:06]
A
So good stuff. I think that's. I think that's it, then. I think we've done it.
- [415:13]
B
Did we do it?
- [415:14]
A
I think we. I think we did it.
- [415:16]
B
Is this your longest deep dive?
- [415:19]
A
Six. I. How chat. Remind me how long Taylor's was. It's got to be close to it. I mean, it's tough, too, because this is live, and some of the times we cut stuff out.
- [415:31]
B
True, true, true, true.
- [415:33]
A
It's. It's. It's got to be close. It's. If it's not, if it's got to be Close. Love it. But yes, it is. It's almost as. It's. It's about. It's just over half the length of the audiobook. Behind the Mirror.
- [415:49]
B
Yes. Promote that, promote that. Love it. That's awesome.
- [415:53]
A
Yeah, I was in San Francisco, I just literally just got back yesterday and we were able to get some early copies out at the event. It was very fun. But I wrote this book about Big Brother and I'm very proud of it. It's going to be published in just under three weeks now. You can still pre order@taranarmstrong.com there's also an audiobook as I mentioned and yeah, it's very exciting stuff. And Morg and I also am on Twitch as well. Usually for like watch parties and things. I used to do more gaming on Twitch but you know, I don't think I'm a good enough gamer.
- [416:35]
B
Hey, you never know. Sometimes it's not about being a good enough gamer. It's not being entertaining.
- [416:38]
A
You know, I was very good at fall guys. I will tell you.
- [416:41]
B
I love fall guys. Makes me rage.
- [416:42]
A
Oh, we should totally love fall guys.
- [416:44]
B
I'm so down.
- [416:46]
A
I would say we should play Apex, but I haven't played that in like seven years.
- [416:51]
B
I was trying to teach Kiana the other day and. And my God. Huh. He's gonna need a lot of work.
- [416:56]
A
I genuinely played Apex a ton when it for. I, I played it for like a year non stop and then, and then I haven't touched it since and so there's like. I never even played more the more than the one map. But it's a very fun game. I recommend, I think it's very fun to watch if you have any inclination to like video game watching. I think Apex is very fun as, as Morgan, as you mentioned, like come watch me. It's like a battle royale type of things for like, you know, it's. It's what, like 30 or so teams?
- [417:28]
B
30 teams, 60 people total. You're in either trios or you're in a duo and you're basically trying to make it to the end and you have different abilities and all that stuff.
- [417:35]
A
And it's one life. You're out, you know, like what do you think?
- [417:38]
B
Unless you get rest. So it's kind of like a Beato.
- [417:41]
A
Yeah, there you go. So make sure you check out Morgan on Twitch. I, I can't, I can't. It's not my game to invite you on Morgan, but we also play other games on Twitch like Blood on the Clock Tower, which is very Very fun. I don't know if you've ever heard of it.
- [417:58]
B
I haven't. I'm always open to new games, though.
- [418:00]
A
Yeah, listen, I'm sure we can. We can do lots of fun stuff. So come to Twitch. Check it out. It's a fun time. Yeah. Anything else, Morgan, to. To plug?
- [418:11]
B
No, just my socials. You can find me model, morgue, same thing on Cameo. All the things. Just look for. Look for me and. Yeah. Oh, I'm also going to like this Orlando event, Over the Edge. And I'm raising money for Precious Dreams, which is a foundation that helps kids and adults who are in foster care or are homeless in la. So I have that on my. I can put it on my story after this deep dive here. If you guys are interested in donating, obviously, the. The goal is 800, but I would love to raise some much more. So that's kind of what I'm actively doing right now before I head to Orlando on the 4th through 7th. You guys can get tickets there too. And. Yeah, aside from that. Oh, if you guys love Big Brother and want to play Big Brother, apply to be on Big Brother. I mean, you know, I think that's a really good thing to do, especially because why the hell not?
- [419:07]
A
Apply and play hard. Take inspiration from Morgan.
- [419:11]
B
Yes. Don't forget the M and Ms. How. Wait, how much before we end this? How crazy did I drive you with the Eminems?
- [419:19]
A
The Eminem. Okay, a little bit, actually, I was gonna say. I don't think it was. No, the. The. The. The issue actually isn't with you with the M and M's, it's that the camera work was not very good with them all the time. So the problem with the M and Ms. For us is that when you brought them out and start talking with the M and M's, if we don't have a good shot of it, we don't know what you're talking about. So it was like, oh, this is annoying.
- [419:43]
B
No, I'm kidding. Yeah, I had color coded ones. Like, I had people who were green, yellow, red. Like, I had everyone in a color coding thing and, like, did it like that. I loved the Eminem strategy. I don't even know what made. I'm a big color coding organized person. So I was like, this is the way to do it.
- [420:02]
A
Well, my. I mean, my favorite thing to come from the M M's was the fact that you started flushing them down the toilet.
- [420:10]
B
I was like, oh, my God. People cannot know that I'm strategizing. I remember People were like, why didn't you eat it? I'm like, so you want me to eat M M's that were on the day beds or beds where people put their ass? No, absolutely not. Like, we literally got these bags weekly. Vince told me one time that I guess Riley kept commenting like, dang, we keep getting M and M's. And I'm just like, oh, there are.
- [420:35]
A
People that mentioned that. Like, man, we're running through Eminem's really, like, a lot like, oh, it also.
- [420:41]
B
Was so crazy to see how Rachel used cough drops in the boxing gloves and the fact that I would go up there and wail on that thing when I was pissed off. I am, like, dying at the fact that I clearly picked boxing gloves that didn't have the cough drops in it. I wonder what it would have been like that never.
- [420:57]
A
Like, how nobody ever felt those or anything.
- [420:59]
B
I mean, I don't think people really ever use that. I know I did. But I guess the gloves that I put on weren't the cough drops gloves, so.
- [421:08]
A
Or maybe they were and you just didn't. Maybe they were like. You know, you just get so in it. I don't know. Maybe they're.
- [421:13]
B
I mean, the ones I felt were empty, so. Yeah, either way, that was hilarious. When I saw that, I was like, oh, my God. I was like, I thought Rachel really went up there to work out, but then she'd be up there for a while. And I was like, what is she doing up there? I was like, oh, whatever.
- [421:26]
A
I mean, she did crush the workouts during this.
- [421:28]
B
Oh, my God. I loved her spin. Spin classes that I did with her. It was so great. Yeah, it was so great.
- [421:33]
A
All right, well, that's what we have for you then. Thank you all so much for joining us. Seven hours of. We also only took one break.
- [421:42]
B
We did. We killed it. Honestly, we killed it. We just. It's like we were just in the big brother house trying to get done. Didn't even take any breaks. Didn't let anyone interrupt up. So we had the hoh door locked.
- [421:52]
A
I don't know if. I don't know if you have this too, but, like, when I'm talking, it's like nothing else exists. Like, I'm not even hungry right now. Oh, I'm either. But I should be because I haven't eaten for seven hours.
- [422:04]
B
No, true. I've just been snacking. Like, I have a beef jerky and M and M's, and I'm like, okay, I should probably eat something with more substance instead of eating this stuff for sure.
- [422:13]
A
All right, well, we'll get to some food. Thank you all so much for joining us. I hope you enjoyed it, and we will see all of you next time.