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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:16]
B
And welcome back to rhap. I'm your host, Taron Armstrong, back once more in the postseason with another deep dive, a very special one for me. Uh, I am here with Rachel Riley. How are you doing?
- [00:32]
A
Yay. I'm so good. Taryn. I'm really excited to be doing this because obviously I watched all of your commentary already, but I feel like I'm. This is the first time that you and I are on the same page. And then also that since Big Brother 13, I feel like you have seen my game change, which is very exciting because, you know, I know back then it was a different concept of my game, but I'm happy to do this. I'm happy to be here. So thank you for having me.
- [01:06]
B
Yes. I'm so excited. And you know, I. Because I wanted to bring this up to you that, like, it's. It's not only very cool for me to talk to you in this. In this context, but, you know, I watch your game. I was, you know, Big Brother 12 was 15 years ago. I was like 18 years old, and I guess that sounds older than. Than what I felt like in my. As I was a child. And you are such a figure, you know, in Big Brother. And, and you know, I. Watching Big Brother 12 as an 18 year old boy. Yeah. Like, when you said no one gets in between me and my man, I. I was too immature, quite frankly, to appreciate the entertainment value that you brought. And. And you know, then I. Then I met on. On this podcast like 10 years ago, and I was so impressed by you and I was so, like, wow, like, she's so nice. She's so engaged in this community. And. And then I had this. This thing in my brain was like, I love Rachel. I didn't love her game at the time.
- [02:25]
A
Yeah.
- [02:26]
B
But. But I love Rachel. I love how, like, invested she is and how passionate she is about this. And. And I also knew how much you, like, loved the game and would want to go back. Yeah. And. And so it was so cool for me to not only get to see you come back in the first place, because I know how much that, like, might mean to you, but. But also to see you really approach the game in a different way. And to be clear, like, I don't. I didn't need you to approach the game in a different way, but it was very cool to see, yeah. The Rachel that I knew exist the game in a different way. And if you had just comped out or whatever and like, just crushed everyone, like, obviously that would have been impressive. But you know me, I, I love the social strategy. I love, I love the maneuvering and, and getting to see you do that in a way that you never really needed to before because of your competition wins.
- [03:28]
A
Yeah.
- [03:29]
B
Was so, so cool and so meaningful to me for like, watching your journey. And it felt like there were a lot of things, like watching Eric Stein on the season that, like, it just healed a little small part of me from my childhood. So thank you for coming back, putting yourself out there and, and thank you for being here and talking to me.
- [03:48]
A
Well, of course. Thank you. That is an amazing introduction. I'm so excited. Yeah. I felt like I knew when I came back this season I would have to play a different game. And I've talked about this in other interviews, but I knew, like, for. From doing like, Rob has a podcast for like, you know, the past, what, 10, 15 years and doing like, interviews with you and doing interviews with all these other people and talking to the winners, being friends with the winners and just kind of learning more about the game and falling more in love with the game, truly. Like with Big Brother in general over the past 15 years, I knew I had to evolve if I ever came back and I had to have a different strategy. I mean, look, I tried to win comps. You have to win some comps sometimes in Big Brother in general. Like, if Ashley didn't win the first one, she would have been gone. If she didn't win the last one, she wouldn't have won. So, like, you do have to win comps sometimes, but no, you don't have to be a comp beast. And like, I think that's the fun part of Big Brother as opposed to some other shows like the Challenge or, you know, it's just a different type of strategic and endurance comp because the whole game is an endurance comp, like 90 days or what, 82 days this season of Big Brother. So, yeah, so I knew coming back I had to play a different game. And I started when they gave me a call like three weeks before, and Brendan and I were like, okay, if we're, if I'm doing this, like, we have to figure out like a strategy. I had to have my outfits, I had to have some one liners. I had to like, because you know me, Taryn, even though I go on to like, play and win, which I totally did want to win, I still wanted to have, like, make good tv, have that, like, entertainment factor because, like, I'm not going to go on a TV show and not try to make good tv. That's what we're there for. But you can do both in Big Brother.
- [05:47]
B
Yeah. Yeah, you can. Because I remember watching on the Traders.
- [05:51]
A
Yeah.
- [05:51]
B
And. And I felt like at the time, even I was seeing, like, this is a Rachel who knows exactly how to make phenomenal television. She's like a seasoned pro at this point. She's playing the game, but also getting into fights and having a good time and like. And so I was very excited to see that version of you on Big Brother, like, so experienced in this world. And you really did. You really did bring it. So what would you say was, like, when you were preparing, what were some of, like the main. What were some, like, the biggest things that you had, like, ready to go?
- [06:33]
A
Okay, so, well, wardrobe, first of all, for me, that was really important after, especially after going on the Traders. And I felt like being part of that family now I need to, like, level up all my other game show appearances or whatever else I'm doing. Because it needs to be like, my wardrobe needs to say who I am and it needs to be recognizable and it needs for people to understand what they are going to get. And that is kind of how I'm going to approach. I approached even worse Cooks of America with that attitude where it was like, okay, my wardrobe has to be. I went into that one and I was like, it was heroes versus villains. So I wanted to do an iconic villain, cartoon villain for every single episode, a different red headed villain. For Big Brother, I was like, I need to be like Big Brother queen, like royalty. I had to wear a gown every day because, you know, I wanted to, like, make this character be bigger than life and larger than life. And it's about, for me, which I don't know if people will love or hate this, but it is about a little bit of creating that character and going into this, making sure that I come across as this, like, Rachel Riley, larger than life. And that's why I talk about myself so much on the show. Because in real life, do I really talk about myself that much? No. But on the show, I needed them to feel like that fire was so hot that they couldn't get close to it. And that heat had to be turned up so much where it was like, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this. And they were just so scared because I knew they were newbies, right. I knew I was the only returner going in. And with being the only veteran, you either have a huge target on your back or you can turn the heat up so high that nobody wants to Come after you. Um, my other strategy was Boston Rob. When he went back into Survivor as the only returner he won that season. I needed my fill up. I didn't find that on this Big Brother, but I tried. And for lack of trying, I tried. But I knew I wanted to model my game very similar to how Rob did on that season of Survivor because he won. And I thought it's different when you, like, I couldn't be Paul. Like, I didn't come back one season after I already done that on Big Brother 13, I couldn't be the Rachel from Big Brother 13 because I didn't know how I would do in these competitions. And I also wanted to go in Brendan and I went through, like, okay, obviously I need to think of different, like, fun, like one liners. I need to think of different strategies. I needed to think of different ways that I could model my game to be a winning game. Especially because Big Brother has evolved and changed so much as we can see this season. But the players have changed. And I knew if I went back with the old mentality that it would be. It wouldn't work. It just wasn't going to be something that people would respond to. And I, even throughout this whole season, I went in the diary room so many times and I was just like, we had our people on Big Brother back in the day. Back in my day said that a lot. Back in my day, we had our people. You had your alliances. You fought with your people. Like, not fought, but like you fought with them side by side. So it was like you battled it out with your people side by side. Against this other side of the house or against other people was always like one side versus the other side. And then you had some people in the middle, but it was always like you won in competition. You knew exactly who you were putting up from the other side because you needed to knock out their players at this season and the newer seasons in general is all over the place. There's like 30 different alliances there, duos, there's trios, there's people that are in, like, multiple things. There's a. A character like Vince who is with everyone all the time. Like, it's just, you know, I find it to be a totally different game, especially the last two seasons with three nominees. You're nominating four people essentially every single episode, right? So. Or every single whatever hoh. So you have to think in your head, three people. Someone's going to win a veto, likely that they're going to come down or whatever happens. But it's you have to have be ready for four, whereas back in the earlier seasons it's. You have to be ready for two. Someone would win a veto, usually someone from your side, one. And if you had to put up a third nominee, it would be really crazy. But you never had to think about four and five nominees. Right. Like, so these new seasons are just so different. That was part of the planning that went into it. I mean, I think we kind of thought about every different angle. I thought about if I went in and everyone recognized me, how I would play versus if I went in and nobody recognized me. And that was one thing Brennan said. He's like, I want you to be prepared that people are going to go in and they're going to say, I watched you when I was seven. And they did. He's like, you have to be prepared that people are not going to remember you or your game. And it's just going to be this legend of whoever you were and whoever they thought you were because they're. They wouldn't have watched my season and, like, likely they wouldn't have even watched. They wouldn't have been around watching live feeds back then because they were seven, you know, So I was prepared for that, but I don't think I could have ever been as prepared for the bad gameplay that I was going to experience.
- [12:09]
B
Yeah, I mean, that was something we talked about a lot, was like, nobody actually knows who you were when you played those seasons and. Which was like, weirdly, to your detriment, because I crave, like, I think that so many of them would have been more okay with working with you if they had known that how you played the game before was, yeah, you had an alliance, you stuck with them, you were loyal, you won comps for them. Like, that's how you played. But they all thought like, oh, legend of big brother. She must be like a Dan Geesling type who betrays everyone at every turn and, like, is super devious, literally.
- [12:50]
A
And then I had people that were like, telling that narrative. So it wasn't even just like I had that they were thinking that there was people that were like, saying, oh, no, that is the narrative. That is exactly what happened. She is. She's backstabbing, she's underhanded, she's manipulative. I'm like, I'm literally not manipulative. I'm like, they would tell me stuff I was doing and I was like, I. Okay, sure, yeah, I'll own that. Sure. If that's what you want. If that's what you think. Is going on. But, like, honestly, I think that it was to my detriment because I think that they started. There was a narrative, they started to believe that narrative. And then because of that, maybe it helped them a little bit to be too scared to touch me, but it also made them think they couldn't work with me, they couldn't trust me. There was no way whatever I told them was true because obviously she's lying to us. She wants. She's just out for herself, which. It's Big Brother. Everyone's out for themselves. But at the end of the day, win Big Brother. It's such a long show. You have to work with people. You can't be a single Big Brother player and never have people you work with. It just isn't going to work like that.
- [14:01]
B
Yeah, you work with people so that you can put them on the block. Right. That's how it works.
- [14:05]
A
Right? Of course, yeah. I mean, if that's. If that's your gameplay, who would you put on the block if you didn't.
- [14:10]
B
Have allies to put on the block?
- [14:11]
A
God, that. This season. Insane. Who does that? This whole season they did that. I don't. I do not understand that at all. This mentality.
- [14:21]
B
Very interesting that you, because you came in here and you basically arrived back at Big Brother in the middle of a massive shift in the meta with the blockbuster.
- [14:34]
A
Yeah.
- [14:34]
B
And the way that players are playing there, I think that players are still adapting to the new format with three nominees with the blockbuster. And on top of that, you also landed on a season where half the cast use chat GPT to do their research.
- [14:49]
A
Oh, my God. I know. They didn't even know what a veto was. I mean, like, do a little bit of homework. They like, come on. Like how these people did not. Like, you're getting cast on a show, you're agreeing to it, you're going through this process, you're signing 1,000 pages of paperwork and yet you're not watching the show every single day. Like, what is wrong? $750,000. I don't get.
- [15:18]
B
Wasn't tick tocked enough? I guess I don't like clips and compilations or chat GPT was the best we could come up with it.
- [15:28]
A
That was so sad. So sad. Could you imagine if I wasn't on this season, Taran, what would they have done?
- [15:34]
B
I mean, believe me, Rachel, that's what we asked ourselves every day.
- [15:38]
A
Literally. I. I felt like I was. I felt like I was giving a master class in Big Brother. I felt like I was coaching them on how to Live their lives, what they needed to do after the show, and then also, like, mommying them while they're just living their life in general by cooking for them, cleaning for them, doing everything. Like, it was like, I don't know what I walked into, but, yeah, it was an adventure. I guess it was. I mean, I did have fun. Like, I'm glad I went back. I love the game as. As we all know. You know, like, I would have loved to go. I would have loved to play All Stars.
- [16:14]
B
Yeah.
- [16:15]
A
I was pregnant, Obviously, everyone asked. Did they ask you? Yes, they obviously asked. I was pregnant. And maybe if there was a winner season for three weeks, four weeks, I would consider it. But after this season, who knows? I'm not sure. But, yeah, we'll see.
- [16:34]
B
I think if they did a winner, I don't think you'd be able to say no.
- [16:37]
A
I. Probably not.
- [16:39]
B
I don't want to ruin your negotiation.
- [16:43]
A
Right.
- [16:44]
B
Well.
- [16:44]
A
And I have so many friends now that are winners. It's. It would be. I was. A few years ago, I was terrified of a winner season, but now I think I do have actual friends that would be on a winner season, so, you know, it could be more enticing.
- [17:01]
B
Yeah. All right. So you get into the game.
- [17:05]
A
Yes.
- [17:06]
B
You walk down the stairs. I. I have. That's from later, but.
- [17:16]
A
I love that.
- [17:17]
B
What an entrance. And there are a couple of people who recognize you and a bunch of other people going, whoa, who is that lady? Yeah, who's that lady? Saying, I'm a legend.
- [17:30]
A
Right. How embarrassing. Yeah. And I'm like, reality royalty has arrived, and they're just, like, royal for what?
- [17:45]
B
Listen, that's more embarrassing to them. They're on the show.
- [17:47]
A
Great. Yeah, that's a good point. That is more embarrassing to them.
- [17:53]
B
So. So obviously, I. I like this concept that you have that you wanted to burn so hot that they were afraid to touch you, essentially.
- [18:02]
A
Yeah.
- [18:03]
B
Which is, I think, a great. A great starting point for you in this kind of situation. Returning players, returning winners, especially on a cast of all new players, a huge part of their of now. Your strategic positioning is often. Well, a huge part of it can be, if you're lucky, a bunch of people who know you and admire you and are fans of you.
- [18:28]
A
Right, right, exactly. No, I was expecting that to happen, and it didn't happen. Also, I didn't get four weeks of safety and friendship bracelets. So you. It was. It was not a very welcoming situation.
- [18:45]
B
But honestly, we were expecting more. You know, usually Big Brother lays out the red carpet for.
- [18:52]
A
For Returners. I know I was. I was surprised they offered me one week of safety, but by the way, I almost didn't get a week of safety. Thank God that I did. So they offered me the one week of safety, and I'm like, okay, I guess that's good. But could you imagine if I didn't get any safety? It would have been right out the door. Maybe not maybe.
- [19:15]
B
I think you would have. I think you would have managed it. I think that you. I mean, granted, we started feeds on day six, so, like, right. By then, by the time we came in, you were. You were good. But part of that might have been because you were safe, but because I already had safety.
- [19:28]
A
Yeah.
- [19:29]
B
Right. Yeah. So Jimmy was seemingly your biggest op initially, and you pretty quickly won him over. And he was. I would say, the. I mean, my perspective of the first week, there were two main drivers of structure and strategy. It was Jimmy and it was Morgan. Jimmy creating the heavy hitters. Morgan really being sort of at the center of the heavy hitters and pushing for the. The Zay stuff. You. You have both of them. Yeah, by. Certainly by the time the feeds come on. And so. And so I guess I'm. I guess a question for you initially would be, when do you think you were able to win Jimmy over? Because I think you had Morgan pretty quickly. I think Morgan, like, initially wanted to work with you. She's like, why wouldn't I want to work with a legend of the game?
- [20:19]
A
100%, I think so. I remember going in and I felt a little bit like on the outs because also they're so much younger than I am, too, so that really doesn't help. But I think I felt like I was on the outs a little bit. And then I, like, purposefully went up and Jimmy and all I would say Morgan and Zach and a bunch of the younger kids, as I say, whatever. The younger players were up on the blue couch in the upstairs room, and I just sat down with them and I just talked and talked and talked. And I think that that was kind of the turning point, because I even remember Jimmy saying, I wanted to get you out. And I think this did happen before feeds were on. He mentioned. He said to me on the couch, like, I wanted to get rid of you, but now I really like. And I told them, like, the other thing I was doing in the very beginning. I was like, nobody's ever going to vote for me. You should take me to the end. I'm a two time. Or. I said, nobody's going to have a two Time winner. Nobody will vote for me. I'm the best person to take to Final Two. Be. Work with me because I'll always be your ally. Work with me because I'm always going to be a person that will go home on the block next to you. So I, of course, was telling them as much as I could think of to get them to kind of like, to lower that threat on myself, but also to get them to want to trust me and work with me. But that did happen pretty quickly. I also used a lot of the skills I've learned in casting to. I don't want to say interview them, but to ask them questions and very personal questions, like, tell me about monumental things in your life or tell me about your biggest loss. Questions that are, like, very interesting, but also questions that are, like, things that would get people to open up to you on a different and deeper level. And I really started that from the very first second I stepped into the house, which is why I was able to connect with Morgan so quickly and while why I think I was able to start that relationship with Jimmy. But also, as we see in the episodes, like, I went around, I asked Keanu about why he was there and what brought him to wanting to apply and wanting to follow through. So I kind of tried to get them all to open up to me in a way where I felt like if I could make them cry, and by the way, I think I made every one of them cry. I could get them to feel like if I'm crying with her, then I'm not going to want to vote her out. You know what I mean? And I say make them cry in a good way. In a way where you're feeling connected to someone and not in a manipulative way or anything like that, just in a way where, like, you're connect. You feel like you're connecting with someone and that you trust.
- [22:58]
B
You want to tear down those walls.
- [22:59]
A
And, like, tear down the walls.
- [23:01]
B
Like, a true connection with someone.
- [23:02]
A
A true connection with someone. Because for me, it was always like, I know when I went on Big Brother that if I could form a relationship with someone that I want them to go home. Because all you have in that house is relationships. We don't have, you know, pen papers. We don't have anything. So if I can form this great, amazing relationship with someone where they. Where they trust me enough to open up to me on that level, then I know that they will not want to get rid of me. And this relationship will last throughout the season because you form these big Brother, you form these amazing connections in the very first weeks. Like, it's not something that happens over time. Yes, you do form your bonds over time, and I listen to you say that you need to continue to maintain those bonds, and you absolutely do. But the strongest bonds are formed in those very first weeks of the show, and I know from playing it three times that how important it truly is. So anyone watching this going on the show, it is the most important for you in those first few days, especially before the feeds come on, to form relationships on a very deep emotional level. Don't go in surface talks. Don't go in. Ask people what their dog name is. Ask them why they have a dog, why do they love dogs? Like, what did it. What is special about your dog? Tell me about your childhood dogs. Like, you need to form these. They have to be very deep bonds, and it feels weird, it feels awkward. And especially the new players, they felt a little taken back at first, but I continued down that path with them, and I think they started to realize, like, on a show like Big Brother, you just have to be vulnerable and you have to be able to let those walls down. And that was. Was one of my main strategies. Didn't work with everyone. Adrian, for example, said he felt like I was interviewing him, which I don't know why he always felt like that with me, because I really tried so hard with Adrian to. To break down a wall. And he never wanted to. He never wanted to, like, overcome, like, some sort of surface conversation, I think.
- [25:07]
B
I think he was somebody who had, like, a lot of walls up and very intentionally so, not, not like, in a sort of, like, passive way, but, like, very intentionally had walls up. And, like, he was somebody who talked to the cameras a decent amount too. Like, he has his own sort of inner world and then sort of like an outer world. And I think that there was. Maybe I'm speaking for Adrian or speculating on Adrian here, but my sort of read on it was that he sort of resented the fact that he could tell you were trying to get through those walls.
- [25:39]
A
I think so, too.
- [25:40]
B
A relationship with the walls intact, if that makes sense.
- [25:44]
A
Absolutely. And I did, I, I, I did notice that a lot about him. And the week that he went home was the only week I, I started to even break through those walls at all. But now I'm. I text with him and he, like, was like, you know, I couldn't, you know, I couldn't really talk about a lot of stuff because of this, that and the other reason. And I was like, I Totally get that. And, like, that's why I tried. And I tried with, like, multiple different types of conversations with different people, because I'm not gonna have the same conversation with one person that I'm gonna have with another person. So that was really important to me to break down those walls. It was really important to me to form those relationships, and I think I formed them really quickly with, like, Jimmy, Morgan, Ashley, which Will. Especially Will. And those relationships really carried throughout the whole season. And I will say, with Will, the first week, he and I are the first before the first eviction. So the first 10 days, he and I had a great relationship, and we did have a lot of great conversations, but we really became friends after he was able to tell us what his occupation was. And when he finally was able to lower that wall, that's when I think I understood him more, because the first 10 days, I felt the same way. I was like, I don't really understand why he won't open up about certain things and why he doesn't want to talk about certain things. And I couldn't. Coming from casting, like, my brain thinks differently now, so I can't understand why some people don't want to talk about things. And so I try to go in a different way, and when I can tell they're just, like, they have that wall up, I have to either give up or, you know, keep work. Just, like, allow it to naturally come out. You know what I mean?
- [27:23]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And I think. I think it's such a great point about the first few days, and unfortunately, it's like, a period of time that we don't have a ton of, like, data on, essentially, because.
- [27:34]
A
Right.
- [27:35]
B
Very rarely have feeds been on from there. But, I mean, of course, that's why a player like Taylor or a player, like, even Ashley to some degree, Players who struggle in those first few days because of whatever reason, have such a hard time coming back from it because they don't have any of those. You know, Luckily, Ashley was able to connect with a few people, but even, like, somebody like Taylor. I mean, again, I talked about Taylor a lot, but, like, yeah, the fact that she had to come back from nothing is so wild. And, yeah, like, if you think about it, this idea that, like, hey, if I'm. I'm kind of slow to open up or, like, I'm slow to, like, really get to know people, you're one of 16 or 17 people in that house, and that means that there's, like, 16 other people to choose from when it comes to who I'M bonding with who I'm aligning with. So if you're taking your time, you're gonna be, like, last in line for a lot of those relationships, even if you then make them a lot. How a lot of people work in the game. And we saw this with Lauren, and we saw it with Keanu. It's kind of first. First to post. Like, first. First person who gets there, gets them for the rest of the season. Season, no matter how close you think you are with them. And so it's so important to make those connections.
- [28:49]
A
No, I totally agree. And I think especially with, like, a day even, I tried the same thing with. I was with Adrian. I tried so hard to kind of get these walls to come down. I mean, I don't even know is Zay's that deep. But, like, I tried so hard to talk to him on so many different occasions, and I think that ended up being one of the reasons why Zay, for me, was just kind of an easy target. That when Vince was, like, making his first nominations, I was like, it has to be Z. And I was telling Jimmy it has to be Zay. Like, we need to get out this alpha, bro. He's already broing it up with the other bros. Like, it was very easy for us before. And I don't know when the feeds came on for the first part of this, but before even the fees were out, we were just like, zay, like, literally, he's too charismatic. He's going to be good at. We thought he would be good at. He probably wouldn't have been good at comps, like, looking back, but you never know.
- [29:40]
B
Well, he was very good at chess.
- [29:42]
A
He was too good at. You know, I played him in chess. He beat me three times in a row, and I never played the guy again because I was so mad that he would beat me three times in a row. I was like, this is ridiculous. Like, why are you gonna beat me three times in a row? Like, have you ever watched Big Brother? Like, you cannot beat someone that much three times in a row without, like, even giving me a shot to try to win.
- [30:04]
B
Not even watch Janelle on season six, you lose on purpose to know your opponent.
- [30:12]
A
That's why I kind of assumed he would do that. Never let me lose or never let me win. So I was like, maybe he does actually need to go. But, you know, it's funny. That is actually, like, part of a strategy, too, because if someone is consistently winning and they won't even be socially aware to, like, let you take the reins, you can kind of tell, like, well, they're never going to let me take the reins so like they probably would have never let anyone take the reins.
- [30:40]
B
Yeah, yeah. And I mean that was, that was very much a strategy and campaigning as well. It was very sort of my way or the highway. Like. Yeah, you don't vote for me.
- [30:47]
A
Yeah, you're. Yep, exactly.
- [30:50]
B
You're in the. Sorry, the pool. You're in the pool.
- [30:53]
A
That's right. That's right. Yes, the pool people. And you know, I think I told Vince his worst. I thought I said he had the worst hoh I've ever seen on television. I've ever like experienced for that first hoh because he didn't leave that hoh room ever. He did so many one off ones which by the way this is also a new school big brother thing and they drove me insane. These one on ones.
- [31:16]
B
Oh yeah.
- [31:17]
A
I wanted to, I didn't know what to do. I wanted to like half the time run in the other direction. Like I was like I've got to get out of this new school big brother. The one on ones were insane. Taryn, you guys saw them. Everyone. Can I pull you? Can I pull you? It was like I remember like three years ago we saw cerise saying you never let anyone know who you're talking to. Right. And like that works on survivor, that works on old school big brother. That is a strategy. Like you people should not know who you're working with and who you're talking to. But on new school big brother on this past season it was like everybody know who, who was talking to everybody every single second. So I think Vince set the tone for that. And this one on one carried out through the whole season but to Vince's, you know, his detriment but also to keeping him in the game as long as he was in the game creating those one on one relationships like you said, it did prove to keep him in. People for whatever reason trusted this guy for like their life with their big brother life.
- [32:20]
B
There's, there's something so interesting about Vince in that it's, it's very rare for a player in the game to be as self effacing, self deprecating.
- [32:33]
A
Yes.
- [32:34]
B
As he was to, for like, for him to constantly put himself down. I, I think and then to do so well.
- [32:44]
A
Yeah, that's what I think it was because the fact he did it so much that I think people felt bad for him. And I don't know if it was one of those like, oh, he's so sweet. He's so real. He's. I heard he's real and genuine so many times, I wanted to puke. I was like, he is not real. He is not genuine. He's literally lied to my face every single week. I'm like, what are you guys seeing that I'm not seeing? And it was because I saw through it, and they thought I was a monster coming after their. Their guy, their sweet little Vince.
- [33:16]
B
I think it's just, like, it's. It's a less commonly used tactic, and so it's a lot more disarming. And I think one of the reasons why it's less commonly used is, you know, it does have a lot of significant downsides, which we eventually see Saw, especially if it. If it's not just a tactic and it's kind of just part of, you know, the way you operate in the game.
- [33:35]
A
Oh, 100%.
- [33:36]
B
Yeah. So, okay, let's Shower Gate. What. What were your thoughts on Shower Gate?
- [33:46]
A
I thought it was so silly. I was, like, so annoyed with Shower Gate. I was like, are you. Is this real life that we're really gonna put Ashley on the block because of some shower? I mean, honestly, I remember being in the room for those conversations because even the first few days, Vince had same thing. Like, I am a big fan of the show. I want to work with you, Rachel. I think we could, like, you know, what do you think should happen this week? So he was asking my opinions the first few days, and I never, obviously, didn't suggest Amy, didn't suggest Ashley. I was all about they going up. But the Shower Gate thing, part of me is like, I think we all kind of said, as long as it's not us. And you know that that happens every week with or every season with Big Brother. First. First out. As long as it's not me, kind of. I really wanted Zay to go home, but it was like, well, as long as it's not me on the block, then what are you gonna do? But Showergate was. I mean, I don't even know. I think the shower is, like, 30 minutes. It was really not that long. They were just making this big deal over nothing. Yeah.
- [34:54]
B
So I also. I realized I don't think we set this up on the recording, but you have already watched all the episodes, and you've also listened. Listened to all of the updates.
- [35:06]
A
I've listened to most of your updates. I've watched the live feeds. I know, I know. Listen, I went through as much as I could because especially knowing we're doing a deep dive. I Wanted to be educated on everything because I do have some things that I would disagree with you on. Taren, we'll talk about.
- [35:24]
B
Very fun.
- [35:25]
A
Yeah. But I think, like, for me, it's important to be. I'm a student of the Big Brother game, period. Like, when it comes to being a student of the game, that is, I'm one of the number one researchers on this game. Big fan of the show for years. Right. So this season I wanted to really see what happened, especially because I think it's such an interesting season. I thought that it was so, like, the way that it played out was interesting. The gameplay was interesting. I wanted to know if there was actually any gameplay. I think there was. I like, looking back, I don't think I gave them a fair shot because there were people that were trying to do strategic moves, you know.
- [36:08]
B
Yeah, Yeah, I would say that's true. I think that there was just such a consistent stream of wild decision making, usually by the hoh.
- [36:18]
A
Yes.
- [36:20]
B
But. But it wasn't all bad. There were definitely some. Some good players in there. Of course.
- [36:26]
A
Yeah.
- [36:27]
B
And so I'm sure we'll get to it. The heavy hitters form.
- [36:32]
A
Yeah.
- [36:33]
B
In the week one, Riley is included initially, but he doesn't want to actually be in any meetings. So he's sort of promptly kicked out.
- [36:42]
A
Yeah. And we. I had a talk with Riley and I was like, what's going on? He's like, well, I just don't. I think it's too risky. I don't. I don't want to be up there. I don't want to. And he was smart in some of the things because they would be like meeting what would we have some silly heavy hitters thing. I don't remember. It was like, that was. The gavel was for the judges. So whatever our heavy hitter sign was. I remember Jimmy would go around and do the heavy hitter sign and be like midnight. And then everyone else would be around and be like, what? And I was just like, this is so obvious. And we were all six of us in or five of us. Because Riley never showed up in the gym. Like, not wearing workout clothes. That was also the downfall of these gym sessions. You're telling me, Vince, you're going to the gym wearing jeans and sandals. Like, come on, come on.
- [37:26]
B
With Lauren alone.
- [37:27]
A
Yeah, with Lauren alone. Like, let's at least put on some workout clothes and pretend like we're doing workouts. Like, it was so funny to me to see how bad they were. Overtly bad at making things obvious. The heavy hitters was Overtly obvious. I would go to the diary room constantly and say, a fake alliance. I would refer to it with other people as a fake alliance, but I would always say, look, if they want to be in alliance with me, I'm not going to. I'm not going to say no because it'll keep me safe or keep me off the block or whatever's going on. But I never thought. I personally, from my point of view, never thought it was a real, real alliance because we didn't meet and we never discussed strategy. We never talked about anything. A little discussion on the Zay vote, but, like, obviously, we were not coming to the same decision on that either. Zach wanted Zay to stay, and the rest of us wanted him to go home. Week one, they wanted to be put up Jimmy for a minute, like. Like week one. So I think it was just a bad group of people. That alliance was formed with random for no reason. Really.
- [38:38]
B
Yeah. So, speaking of, we have this. The heavy hitters alliance, very much a disagreement about who people want to leave. Zach and. And Vince would really like for Amy to go. And initially, Jimmy really wanted Zay to stay. That does eventually waver. But you've probably heard me talk about this already then that the first night of feeds, it's, you know, is it going to be Keanu or Kelly as the replacement nominee?
- [39:10]
A
Yeah.
- [39:12]
B
And the first time we really heard your opinion on it was like, Vince was really wavering. He asked your opinion. I was fully expecting at that point for you to be like, yeah, put Keanu up. That helps keep Amy safe, because either Keanu or Zay will be much more likely to go home, whereas Kelly is a little more dangerous. And you were like, don't put Keanu up. I was like, whoa, that's. That's interesting. And of course, later, we watched the episodes and saw that you actually had a connection with Keanu. I was like, oh, okay. But what. What happened here ultimately, is that once Vince puts Kelly up, he starts talking to the cameras, like, oh, I just know. Know that Rachel's gonna be in the diary room, and she's gonna say, I convinced him to put up his closest ally. I'm gonna look like an idiot. And so he was. He was dead set on, like, Kelly has to say, Amy has to go. And it very much put you right away at odds with Vince. In this first vote, the first campaign, he saw it as him against you, and. And really, it was like him against Morgan and.
- [40:16]
A
Yeah.
- [40:16]
B
And a bunch of other people. But he really started using. Using you as a reason to take out Amy. And it really. That was when the narrative started going out there.
- [40:27]
A
I know. And it was so odd because I don't even think that I had a big decision in him choosing Kelly. I guess she volunteered, right. To go on the block. Is that what was really happened?
- [40:39]
B
So. So she initially volunteered. Then he didn't put her up because he put up Ashley and Amy. Then when Ashley won the veto, he was like, so about the volunteering. And Kelly point said, I've changed my mind. I don't want to be on the board. Okay. And she begged, basically. But, you know, at al. And also was like, but if you need to, it's fine, but I really don't think it's a good idea. So she and Keanu were pushing Jimmy because at that point, Keanu had found out about all the Jimmy stuff. And when it became clear that wasn't happening. And then Keanu made. Made Morgan cry in the morning. Morning because of the hug gate. When Jimmy didn't hug him, there was all this drama about Keanu. And Kelly was like, well, you should put up Keanu now.
- [41:28]
A
Yes.
- [41:29]
B
Everyone's upset about Keanu. And it seemed like he was going to. Then he talked to you and you said no. But. Yeah, I think even more importantly, he then talked to Morgan also said no.
- [41:41]
A
Yeah.
- [41:42]
B
And I think if Morgan had said yes, I think he would have done it. I think that it's like fully like Morgan was like the fine final bit. And, you know, this is, of course, hindsight. I didn't see that at the time, but, like, knowing the relationship that is to come, like, they had already been pretty close.
- [41:57]
A
Yeah.
- [41:58]
B
There were two people he said he needed to talk to was Riley and Morgan. Riley, because they were already in the unexpendables. Right. And. And Riley already didn't care. But then Morgan as sort of like his confidant. And. And Morgan said no, and so it doesn't happen. And. And Kelly, you know what?
- [42:16]
A
Yeah. And also Taryn, it's funny because after the whole season of like, working with Vince or watching his game, I do also recall before, like, literally minutes before we went, he went into that Renam to go to the diary room to make his Renam. I talked to him again. I pulled him in the gym minutes before even. And I said, you do not put up Keanu like, no matter what anyone tells you, do not put this guy up. I said, this week, just get rid of Zay. They do not put up Keanu no matter what they say. And that was. I wonder if that also had swayed him, because I talked to him the night before, then he talked to Morgan. Then minutes before, it was like. Because Vince, for whatever reason, listens to whoever talks to him last I noticed. So. And I don't know if I'm sure most of it had to do with Morgan. I'm not saying that that's true, because I do feel like that is 100% true, but it was that. That Morgan had said it. And then I think that she and I were both on the same page where. And minutes before I was like, don't do it.
- [43:19]
B
Did you talk to him twice in the gym, or was it.
- [43:23]
A
Yes. Yeah.
- [43:24]
B
Okay. Yeah, because you talk.
- [43:25]
A
Did you guys see the one in the gym? Okay.
- [43:27]
B
Yeah. And then. Because he was, like, rushing around at.
- [43:31]
A
That point, so maybe this was then the minutes before 1.
- [43:34]
B
Yeah, because I. Because the feeds cut on him talking to Morgan, which was right after he talked to you.
- [43:39]
A
Right after he talked to me. Okay, perfect.
- [43:40]
B
It was right outside of the gym. And. And I did. Because, like, at the time, I think he was just. He was really just hoping somebody would tell him what to do. And you were the first.
- [43:49]
A
Yeah.
- [43:49]
B
What to do. And then, of course, he later is like, Rachel yelled at me and told me.
- [43:55]
A
I mean, I didn't yell at him, but I was definitely like. I mean. And that was. Yes, we did want Zay to go home, but it was also I did want. Obviously, I thought that Morgan and I both had discussed that we could probably work with Keanu, but, like, we also thought we needed to get they out of there to break up whatever budding bromance these guys were all doing. And if we didn't get they out, then there was no way that we could get this bromance between Zach, Riley. Well, we thought Riley, but Keanu, Zachary back. Vince. Well, Vince wasn't as much in it, but just those four guys for sure.
- [44:39]
B
Well, yeah. I mean, they. They.
- [44:40]
A
Yeah.
- [44:41]
B
In an attempt.
- [44:42]
A
The Burger Bros. Or whatever.
- [44:43]
B
The Burger. The Burger Boys, and. And even, like, the bond was kind of like another getting some of them together. The fact that Zach didn't like Riley, at least at first, was. Was definitely like a huge, huge boom to the anti bro structure. But yeah, I mean, Zay leaving was. Was super important. Oh, 100 if Keanu leaves. Or even more if, like, Amy had left that week. You know, you. You all saw Zach's reaction to Zay leaving.
- [45:18]
A
Oh, yeah. No, that was insane. Yeah, I think that. And that would have been such a problem. So. And then also later on through the 10 days. Because it's 10 days for the first eviction. It was like Lauren, Catherine, like, they was like getting those people wrapped around his finger. I was surprised that he. We were able to convince Lauren and Catherine to vote to keep. To vote to keep Amy over Zay.
- [45:45]
B
Yeah, they never. They never really vote with you again. Right. This was like the one time they jumped on board with. With your side of the house, essentially.
- [45:53]
A
I think it was because my arguments that week for Amy were so strong and I was trying. I was trying. I was. Every book, every trick in the Big Brother handbook, I was like using to get to have as arguments, right. Like, got to break up the bros alliance. The bros are never. They're never going to work with the girls. Like, just everything I could ever think of. And I'm actually surprised because it was an argument or a discussion for, like, a lot of the season if Riley voted with us. So I was always surprised to see that Riley did vote for us with us.
- [46:26]
B
The whole voting drama with Riley voting with you but pretending he didn't and then will voting not with you.
- [46:33]
A
Right.
- [46:34]
B
Pretending he did, but then also pretending, then admitting he didn't and like, all kinds of. I mean, that really threw Keanu. For a loop. Yeah, it. Yeah.
- [46:47]
A
For a loop. Yeah. That was crazy.
- [46:51]
B
Massive kudos, I think, this week to you, because you really should not have been able to pull this vote off, especially considering where the house goes, you know, the fact that you are able to keep players like Catherine and Lauren who were voting against sort of the relationships they were building at the time. With Catherine comes Riley and then also importantly, Ava, who, you know, again, the bond was formed. One of the reasons why was to get those votes. And, you know, Ava's the one that's like, frankly, I don't think it makes any sense. And with Ava, you know, holding her ground, that gives more space for Lauren to hold her ground. And so, yeah, like, all of this kind of comes together and it's such a great first early example of how much power you and Morgan and Mickey and like, the power that you guys held on that side, really, you really were like, outperforming your weight class, so to speak. Like, you were over the actual numbers you had.
- [47:57]
A
Oh, no, I totally agree. And we. And like you said, we shouldn't have had those numbers, but we. We went in. I, like I said I tried every book or every Big Brother trick I could think of. Every, like every sale to keep someone in that house. I was going around the house telling everyone a different Thing about why Amy was better for their game, because Amy wasn't campaigning for herself. You know, I mean, it wouldn't. Like, she had kind of been hands off. And then they. And I get into that huge fight, which also put this huge target on my back. And I should have seen this because. So this is. I can't remember what happened. I think they had come to me and Morgan in the hammock and said, like, if you're not with me, you're against me. I'm going to get you out. I took that as like, you're coming for me. You're coming for the people I'm building bonds with. They told me something about he was trying to get Keanu to go up as a Renam, whatever was happening. They said something, something. And I was like, perfect, this is everything I need. So I told Keanu, and then Keanu didn't believe me and went to Zay immediately afterwards. Like, when I walked over to them in that spot, when I told them, don't come for the queen, you'll get beheaded. Like, that was literally because we were still arguing about stuff that had happened a few days prior. Because I was like, zay was never with you, Keanu. And then Keanu goes to Zay and is like. Like, hey, Rachel's saying that you're not with me and blah, blah, blah. And you're trying to get me. Like, you were trying to get me to go home. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like. And they was trying to get him to go up on the block.
- [49:30]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [49:32]
A
And the. The story was, sorry, Taryn, I didn't mean to cut you off. But the story was, if Keanu goes up, he would have gone home. So that was the narrative. And when I heard that narrative, I was like, I was even more. I was trying to get to make sure that that didn't happen even more because it was like, I. I was concerned that he would have gone home.
- [49:52]
B
Yeah. So there. There's a couple of things. Obviously, if you watch some of the Keanu deep dive, you've heard some of this. But, like, he was being told by particularly, like, Vince and even, you know, Jimmy was like, well, yeah, it's total misunderstanding. I was never coming for you. You were never in danger. Vince is telling Keanu, like, you're. You're totally, really good. But there's actually another massive one which was Kelly. You had that conversation with Kelly where, you know, she sort of, like, opened up to you, but then right after was like, yeah. And you had told Kelly, like, make sure you tell Keanu about Zay and about this stuff that you know. And Kelly took that and went, rachel's trying to get me to lie to Keanu about Z Jose and told Keanu and Vince. Rachel's trying to trick you. She's telling me to tell you lies. Which really further inoculated. Not that he needed any help, but, like, really further inoculated Keanu to that conversation.
- [50:56]
A
Yeah, it makes sense because we saw how the rest of the season plays out.
- [51:00]
B
Yeah.
- [51:01]
A
Rachel, there was nothing I could do.
- [51:04]
B
I mean, you've probably seen it in the updates. I lost my mind over some of those conversations you had with Keanu. I, like, you have more patience than I think I would.
- [51:17]
A
I know there's times I should have just, like, cut bait and moved forward, but I don't know. I think we all, like, try our best we can when we're playing Big Brother. And yeah, I think it was like, a lot of the newbies, though I tried. I tried a lot of the newbies to talk to them about how Big Brother worked. It explains strategy to, like. I had that conversation with Kelly once later on in the season when I thought, like, after Morgan and Mickey had turned on me, I was like, okay, I need to get a new group of people to be on my side. Tried to pull Kelly in. I had a conversation with her because she said she's a huge Survivor fan. So I said, okay, you're a huge Survivor fan. Do you remember in the season where Boston Rob came back as the only returning player and she's like, no. And I was like, so what Survivor seasons have you watched? Like, I literally was just like, okay, mind blown again. Because I thought there was a way to get through to her in a different way. If she wasn't a Big Brother fan, I could, okay, you're a Survivor fan. Let me talk about Survivor. And then it was just like, it was never gonna happen.
- [52:27]
B
Yeah, unfortunately, the way to her heart would have been to talk about Tucker.
- [52:30]
A
I mean, honestly. Right? Yeah.
- [52:34]
B
You know, Tucker really would have want to work with me.
- [52:38]
A
Yeah, exactly. She. She wouldn't have believed that either.
- [52:46]
B
So. So you make. You make it happen. Zay is evicted. Phenomenal stuff. Huge results for the season for you. It's. It's really, like I said, like, you. You guys, like, out performing your weight class when it comes to the numbers that you actually had, continuing to strike down. Down the people who were in a bigger group who had more numbers that just didn't pull them together and actually do anything. With them. Except for this next week when Jimmy wins hoh.
- [53:21]
A
I know Jimmy. It's interesting, too, because going into that second week after that speech was they. I thought also that I was, like, just gonna be a duck floating in the water, because I literally was. You know, after his speech, I had no safety, and I thought that I was definitely going to be a huge target after. He's like, if you don't come for Rachel, she's going to float to Final Five and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, my God. I was terrified. So I'm glad that Jimmy won that hoh, but it was. I mean, I thought I was going to be gone.
- [53:59]
B
Yeah. I think, like, trying to think about it. I think there are very few people that would have actually targeted you that week.
- [54:07]
A
That week. Yeah.
- [54:08]
B
Yeah. I'm trying to think because, like, a lot of people had bigger fish to fry. Keanu. You know, maybe in the world where Keanu and Kelly also both still get powers and still and. And. And save themselves, maybe you're like a fourth option or something for some people. But I think for the most part, you were still mostly fine here. Maybe in that regard, Jimmy winning HOH was not a very good outcome for. For you right here.
- [54:38]
A
Yeah.
- [54:39]
B
But, you know, it definitely felt good at the time, I'm sure, because Jimmy was one of your closer allies.
- [54:46]
A
We had become really great friends by that point. And he had said. Even he tells me that he had been calling out my name during the black box to try to give me the key to win that HOH over him. So I think that that's kind of interesting, too, because I guess that just goes. Yeah.
- [55:04]
B
Really big season if that happen. Right.
- [55:06]
A
I mean, it would have been totally different, but it just goes to show that, like, I was able to turn this target into all these great relationships, strategically and socially. Right. So it's like I. I feel like that that was going to continue even after hamster wheel, but we'll get there.
- [55:29]
B
Yeah. I'm sure you've been told this, that you were holding the Mickey's power.
- [55:34]
A
Oh, my God. I know.
- [55:35]
B
In the black box and then. And then put it down.
- [55:39]
A
Yeah, I know. But I was holding it for a very long time anyways. And by the way, I would love to give myself credit. Like, I could have found my way back to the. Whatever those dumb waiters were. Honest to God, I don't think I could have. Like, it was. They would have had. They would have still been playing that competition hours later because I was so, like, all over the place in that black box. I. It was just. I couldn't. I could not figure out what room I was in at any point. So I did. I immediately found the key. Like, I literally. We. They said, go, and I ran right through it, Went right to the sewer, went in a trash can, found that key, thought that it was maybe an hoh key. But then I spent, like, the majority of the time holding it until, like, two or three powers had gone by then I couldn't figure out what I was doing. And by that time, I found the other key, and I was like, well, maybe it's the other key. Anyways. So I don't know. I don't know if I would have ever found the dumb waiters.
- [56:40]
B
Yeah.
- [56:41]
A
Yeah. That's between you and I and anyone watching this episode. Yes.
- [56:45]
B
Yes. Nobody. Nobody say anything.
- [56:47]
A
Nobody tell anyone.
- [56:49]
B
This should have been an easy week. And to be fair to Jimmy, he made perfectly acceptable initial nominations. Adrian made a ton of sense, considering the way that he sort of talked about his vote the previous week and then voted Keanu and Kelly two targets on the block. And he was even able to sort of, like, continue to keep Keanu pretty much mollified for the most part. Kelly was obviously Kelly, so this could have been a very easy and good week for him. Solidifying the structure, everything going well, but we have some powers involved. And. And also, too, like, this is an. This is a veto competition that Keanu launched lost, and who knows what would have happened? I guess Adrian would have probably won the veto. And then in that case, maybe it is just like Will is the renom and then Keanu probably wins that blockbuster. It's the puzzle one.
- [57:48]
A
Yeah.
- [57:49]
B
So it's probably just. Yeah, it's probably just Kelly, but Casey wins the. The veto for Keanu, and Kelly completes her. Her puzzle puzzle to get. To be safe. And then this is where things really just go off the tracks for. For Jimmy here.
- [58:09]
A
Yeah. Yeah. The nominations didn't make much sense. I think he was under the impression that Amy was coming for, which, by the way, Amy was talking about going for him.
- [58:22]
B
But Ashley and I. Yeah, there's whole drama, and he talks to her about it. Yeah.
- [58:26]
A
And Ashley, I think in your deep dive with Ashley, you discussed this where it was like. Like she. Ashley was trying to convince Jimmy, too, that, like, Amy would have been great for us. Right. Like, we would. Amy had me, and Amy had Ashley, and we were going to try to get Jimmy to work with us, and we weren't. If Amy would have stayed, she wasn't going to come for Jimmy because we would have talked to her.
- [58:48]
B
It was no problem for Jimmy at all.
- [58:50]
A
I know. No problem at all. I know, man.
- [58:53]
B
Every time we do these deep dives, it's just like PTSD for me. Probably worse for you, man.
- [58:58]
A
Yeah, it was. Everyone made a lot of bad decisions, but then it's also like, how much do we want to push this person that you're trying to work with and how much do you want to push them when they're the hoh? And there is a fine line between really trying to push your agenda and kind of letting things fall as they may. Because at that point, I didn't see a world where Jimmy was going to change his mind on nominations. He's like, well, she kind of owes me to go on the block. She's not going to go home. And it was like, well, she might go home. Pawns go home. Told him that numerous times. But Amy ends up not winning Blockbuster Worst case scenario, Will versus Amy. Just.
- [59:45]
B
Yeah, yeah, It's a tough position. It's, it's. It's the first of many weeks, actually, that you will be in this position of like, trying to exert your. Her will on the HOH by being like, you're kind of screwing me over here. But also trying to not go so far that they go, oh, well, if I'm pissing her off, then I might as well put her up.
- [60:12]
A
Right? Literally. Exactly. Yeah.
- [60:15]
B
And so that is definitely, and I think a big thing for Jimmy at the time was that he really felt like he had Catherine and by extension, Ryo, Kylie, and that he was close to Lauren and it just wasn't true. Like, I, I don't really know why he got that impression. They were hanging out with him a lot more at that time. But like, yeah, as soon as I.
- [60:37]
A
Think because, well, Catherine and Lauren were spending every day and they had a sleepover in the hoh, so they were really up there with him a ton. But what he didn't see was that Lauren and Catherine also had relationships with all these other guys and he was. Wasn't considering that he would be. He wasn't considering that they. He was thinking they could have that relationship and keep him safe, but he wasn't considering that he's not going to be working with them. I think that that was like, what it really. What it seemed like in my eyes, that what it seemed like that he was like, okay, well, I can work with these girls and I can work with these girls where I was like, you. We were all Kind of on different sides at that point, but nobody really wanted to admit they were all on different side. Different sides.
- [61:21]
B
Yeah. It's. It's just like a lot of players, I think this season just felt like, got like greedy about, like, yes, I can keep these pieces over here and these pieces over here, but did not work.
- [61:34]
A
Yeah, did not work that way. No.
- [61:38]
B
So I. So this is. This is a rough one. Obviously, once the nomination, the renominations happen, it's kind of. It's kind of locked in, like. It's kind of like if Adrian wins this blockbuster, it's Amy versus Will. That's a pretty rough spot.
- [61:57]
A
Yeah.
- [61:58]
B
And so this is also the week where you are really. This is the week where you notice Vince and Lauren.
- [62:08]
A
Yes.
- [62:09]
B
They were. They're talking in the bedroom. You come in to clean, they move to the gym. You come to clean, they move somewhere else, you come in to clean.
- [62:19]
A
Yeah. That was crazy.
- [62:19]
B
Big man.
- [62:20]
A
Yeah.
- [62:21]
B
These two, huh?
- [62:22]
A
Yeah, literally. And then I start saying to everyone, hey, guys, like, maybe we should pay attention to Vince. And of course, nobody.
- [62:32]
B
What?
- [62:33]
A
Vince who? Vince. Vince is just a great. Vince is a great guy.
- [62:38]
B
Yeah. And you're. You're trying to. You're trying to raise the alarm, and. And people. Yeah, they really just aren't seeing, which is. Is so interesting, I think. I think it's because it came from you, and they already had this perception of you, this idea of you that, like, you were that person.
- [62:58]
A
Yes.
- [62:59]
B
And so because you were saying, hey, watch out for this guy. He is doing all this stuff, they were like.
- [63:05]
A
Yeah, I think. I think that's right. I mean, the whole. The whole season, it was a recurring theme for me that I don't feel like that any of the newbies listened to me. And I don't think any of the new players wanted to take my advice. They didn't want to see things from the perspective that I was coming to them with. And I don't know if that was them thinking they knew better than me or them thinking I just didn't have all the information. But it was really disheartening because I would say to them, hey, look, this example. This example. I would give them examples from my seasons. I would give them examples, examples from other Big Brother seasons because I also told them, I'm like, I'm also a super fan. Like, you guys. Like, I know Big Brother. Trust me, this is going on. And they would just, oh, Rachel, you don't know. You don't know what's going on. I'm like, okay, well, yeah, and it's like.
- [64:02]
B
Like, on one hand, you know, they should be skeptical. Like, if you are a new player and there's an experienced previous winner on your season, you shouldn't just take everything they say as gospel. Right. But you also shouldn't dismiss everything they say.
- [64:18]
A
Everything. Right. And they just say your ally. Right. 100%. I know, I know. And you know what's funny too, is that I would say to them all the time, like, listen, if I had someone like a June song or a Janelle in here, I would have thought my first season, I would have followed them. Like, I would have listened to what they were saying. Like, it doesn't make sense. Sense for them to not want to listen at all. What. To what I'm saying. But I just think that made it.
- [64:51]
B
Even worse at the end of the day. Like, I. I guess outside of Jordan, like, anytime there have been previous players with new players, like, if a new player wins, it's because they worked with the returning player, you know, 100.
- [65:13]
A
Yeah.
- [65:13]
B
All Ian, you know, the coup d' etat really screws things up with. With Jesse, of course. But. Yeah, but, like, But I think. I think the pattern is pretty good. We. We even saw it in. In Big Brother Canada the last season when Bailey won, having worked with Spice, Ev, and Anthony, like, you know, I don't think think that being adversarial to the returning player is. And I say this all the time. It's. It's not the correct way. You need to work with them, at least initially. Right.
- [65:48]
A
To a point.
- [65:49]
B
You need to. Yeah. You need to make sure that they can't, like, really get their roots in and, like, you know, build up a structure that can exclude you. But. But, like, it is an incredibly valuable resource and. And they will probably have a lot of power, especially if they have fans in the house. You didn't. But even so, you have so much experience and you have so much ability in the game that it's much better to work with you than against you, at least initially.
- [66:15]
A
Yeah. I always wondered if I did have fans in the house that. If it would have helped me more because I know on Big Brother 13, like, we kind of had fans, you know, like, I mean, Jeff and Jordan. Adam. Yeah, Jeff and Jordan and Shelley and Adam. I mean, I would say Portia kind of was a fan. She knew she was a fan of Dick and Danielle. By extension, she was also a Janelle fan, so she kind of knew of me. But I would say, yeah, this season, I didn't feel that had helped at all. Like, I don't think I had anyone. So I think I went in. I think I went into as a winner and an experienced player and a fan. But I. I came in with the idea that I would have fans, I would have safety, I'd have this, that, and the other thing. And I. I didn't. And I think that that also I should have recognized maybe earlier to try to adjust my strategy.
- [67:16]
B
Just one person, like a Quinn or a Corey, Like a super fan. Like, super, super fan type who could have been. Been like. Even if they weren't playing with you could have been like, oh, guys, like, Rachel doesn't play that way. That's. That's not.
- [67:29]
A
I know. Right, Right. Because Lauren, super fan. Right. She didn't have any opinion.
- [67:34]
B
I mean, she was what? Yeah, like eight or whatever.
- [67:37]
A
I think she said seven. Yeah. So. Yeah. And then. But then even Vince, who claims he was a super fan, he started watching, I think, 16. Yeah. So he hadn't seen my seasons.
- [67:49]
B
Yeah.
- [67:50]
A
I don't think. I don't even know anyone besides Lauren, who said she watched at 7, had watched my season. And then, of course, I have some other guy who watched clips of me on YouTube and then tries to use that in against me and says the whole time that I'm this, like, backstabbing, manipulative player. Like, so, I mean, I couldn't.
- [68:10]
B
His favorite moments of you or when Hayden was insulting you, remember?
- [68:14]
A
Absolutely. Yeah, exactly.
- [68:16]
B
I cannot believe that argument.
- [68:18]
A
I know. I know.
- [68:21]
B
You have to know what you were just saying to her, literally.
- [68:25]
A
I think he did, like. I think he pretends like he didn't. And I really. He had to have known because here's.
- [68:32]
B
The tell for me is that afterward he went way too far in the. Like, he was like, what? What? What could I have possibly said? It's like, at that point, you definitely know, which tells me that you're definitely denying it now, which means that you're probably denying it.
- [68:47]
A
You probably do. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. And I think he also, like, was doing that to try to get a reaction from me. And, like, at that situation, I just walked away. So I think maybe he was trying to gauge how much of a reaction he would get. But, I mean, I don't know, you know?
- [69:08]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it does help you bond with Ava.
- [69:13]
A
Yes.
- [69:14]
B
It is around this time that you are proposing a final two with Ava. And I remember at the time Ava was big fan favorite. You were obviously a big fan favorite. And so this was, like, big news. This was like oh, boy. Like on. On Big Brother Unlocked, it was like breaking news.
- [69:35]
A
Oh, really excited.
- [69:37]
B
They didn't have time to put it in the episode initially, and. And when we saw it on the feeds, this was a big thing, too. We didn't know if it was real because it was such a quick, short, little thing. It was like, was Rachel just proposing the final two to Ava? It. It seemed like it, but we can't tell if it. If they were talking about something else or if it was, like a little bit of a joke. And so then they showed it on Unlocked. We were like, oh, it's real. Here. This. Oh, this is phenomenal for both of them.
- [70:04]
A
Yeah. I think it could have gone really well, and I think Ava and I could have worked together really well, but she just didn't have this strategy to stick with it. And also, I probably didn't finesse that relationship the way that I should have, so I do take responsibility for that. I let her become friends with. Not let her become friends. She was going to develop friendships, but I let that get away from me. And by doing that, she became closer friends with, like, Lauren Kelly. So I think that that probably didn't help later on in the season, but I did feel like. And Ava had become really good friends with Will, too. And so I think because I was working with Will, I was working with Ava, I thought we were all kind of had that same idea of where we were going in the game, and I probably should have worked on that relationship a little bit more. So I do regret that. That too.
- [71:01]
B
Yeah. That I think Ava was somebody. You know, I say this. I was gonna. I was gonna say she's somebody that, like, needed a lot of maintenance, but then I remembered her relationship with Riley.
- [71:12]
A
Yeah, she needed maintenance. She just needed, like, reassurance. I think I. Same thing with Will. She. It wasn't the maintenance. It was the reassurance and the. You can come back and talk to me whenever you want, whenever you. You feel like you're good with it.
- [71:29]
B
I think Ava had an aversion to the game.
- [71:33]
A
Yes.
- [71:34]
B
And so she valued the relationships the most that weren't as game focused. And obviously yours was very game focused. And so that's, I think, part of what repelled her a bit at times.
- [71:47]
A
I agree.
- [71:47]
B
But, you know, like, and I think you got to talk about the game. You're in the game.
- [71:53]
A
You got to talk about the game. You're in the game. Right. It's a game. I also think a lot of times people that I would try to get Close to would. I don't know if I don't want to say they were like jealous of my other friendships or relationships, but at times it felt like that people viewed me. Oh, you're a duo with Amy. Well, Amy's got to go. You're due with Jimmy. Oh, well, let's weaken Rachel. Get rid of Jimmy. And then like I became close with Ashley and then it was like Ashley was untouchable because for a little bit. Because it was like, if you're going to put up Ashley, you might as well just put up Rachel because Rachel's going to get so upset. So it was like a weird. Like it was just this weird dynamic I had with people in the house where it was almost like if I was very close with someone that someone else would be like, they noticed it a lot, if that makes sense. And I don't know what happened with Ava.
- [72:47]
B
Yeah, that's tough. I mean, Ava certainly later in the season expressed some amount of like, she was definitely closer to other people than me. I could tell. Like, she talked to other people more than me. She was more loyal to other people than me. So the final two clearly wasn't very real. But. But I think in general, the way that people wanted to play with you, which to be fair is probably generally the right approach is like, I do want to work with Rachel, but I can't allow her to be too powerful. So I need to like sort of keep her.
- [73:19]
A
Keep her. Yes.
- [73:20]
B
Locked up a little bit. Like, yeah. You know, keep her locked up in the tower. I will hold, you know, Queen Rachel, you know, power Liz up in the tower. Keep her till jury and then, you know, she'll. We'll allow her upper jury.
- [73:35]
A
Right. Literally. And I heard that story a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And that was really frustrating for me because I felt like they didn't put any respect on my name. I had been. I'm such a super fan of the show. So in general, I am a student of the game. I'm a super fan. I'm great with just having overall game knowledge. Right. Like, I know a lot of game knowledge, but then I've also been played the game twice. I was a. And I felt very much like there was no. People just didn't respect that. And it was really hard for me. And then on top of it, the jury thing. And we'll get to that too, I'm sure. But that made me so mad because I have two young kids at home, a four year old and a nine year old, and I don't think that was expressed enough when they told this part of the story. I was so mad that they would have the audacity to say they were going to send me to jury first when I left my husband and my 4 year old and my 9 year old at home. And you're just thinking that I'm that disposable of a player. You want me to convince a jury to give you $750,000 and yet you don't respect me enough to let me go home to my kids before. If you're going to get rid of me, why are you making me sit in a jury to vote for you? Why are you going to just get rid of me today? You know what I mean? And for me, that was so hard to deal with as well.
- [74:57]
B
For me, the worst part of the whole thing is why are you telling other people about it 100% and that.
- [75:04]
A
Yes.
- [75:05]
B
Why are you talking about it.
- [75:06]
A
Yes.
- [75:06]
B
So openly so often? Like, it's one thing to in your head. Because I'm sure Ashley felt this way too. Like, I would love for Rachel to be on the jury. She told that to your face. But, like, you know, Ashley isn't saying, well, I'm bringing Rachel to the jury so that I can have a vote for me on the jury. Then we'll cut. Like, why would you say why? It was such a big topic of conversation. Obviously we, like, it became a meme, like how often people were talking, talking about who's on the jury, who are we bringing? The jury.
- [75:36]
A
Yeah.
- [75:36]
B
And I think there is some value in as an individual player thinking, who do I want to be on the jury? Because I need to make sure I'm getting the votes that I have. But the way that they talked about it was more so like it was just another way of talking about who was in their alliance. Basically, who are we bringing to final eight, final six, whatever. But like talking about it on the jury. And then even more worse, Mickey would say, like, well, I, you know, I would want Rachel and she's a vote for me and then I would want this person on the jury because she's a vote for me. And it's like, why are you telling other people this?
- [76:11]
A
Right. 100%. Why did they talk about so much? And then the order of the jury. Why are you talking about the order of the jury?
- [76:17]
B
Upper jury, lower jury?
- [76:19]
A
Yes, exactly. Like, is this a joke? Like, are we, like serious right now? And so I think to me, I was so offended and it's so against the big brother that I played. We never would Talk about jury. Like, you didn't want to go to jury, and these people, like, wanted to go to jury or something. And it was just like, when I was on Big Brother, it was like, you're going to win. Like, you're either going to win or go home. Like, what's the point? And that's my mentality coming into this season as well, which when I said to them, I was like, I will not see the jury. Jury house. Unfortunately, I did, but my mentality was, I'm either going to be Final 3 or get rid of me now, because I don't think that there's any point to play this game, to be in a jury house. It's just so ridiculous. But this week, yeah, I thought so, like, I was going to get with Ava. I thought that I could. I could work with Ava throughout the whole season. And I thought she would be someone for me to be able to bounce ideas off of that I could trust, which was really a big thing for me, too, because I didn't know at that time who was not going to go run around and tell all my secrets or tell them game stuff that I was giving them in game information of how to play Big Brother and go tell everyone else how to play Big Brother. You know what I mean?
- [77:35]
B
Yeah. And this is where, you know Amy. Amy does, of course, get evicted here, but this is where your strategy of, like. And it's such. It's such an older school strategy because it's not how players play because they're all watching you. You yell at Zay and they're like, yeah, wow, that's. That's bad gameplay. She's going to be in trouble. Right. And then a couple weeks later, Lauren wins hoh. And should be targeting you. Just Right. Straight up should be targeting you. But it's like, well.
- [78:15]
A
I don't want Rachel to come at me.
- [78:17]
B
I don't want Rachel to yell at me.
- [78:18]
A
I know, I know, I know. And I heard Brendan's analogy of, like, going after the strongest guy in prison, like, trying to beat him up or whatever, but that does actually, it did work in my. And that is very much a Season 8 tactic or, like a Season 10 tactic, where it is like, you do go and you find someone and you. You do get in this big thing. And then it's like, wait a second. If I come after her, she might come for me. And it's like, you don't want people to think that they can just easily come after you, because if they think you're easy to keep it out, then it's, you know. Yeah, well, then they will just go after you. But if. And that's another, again, to my point of making this fire so hot. I was telling Lauren, look, you're a fan of Janelle. I'm friends with Janelle. You're a fan of Brittany. I'm friends with Britney. I'll be your big brother. Big sister. Like, look at all the things I've done. I've done big brother. I've done Amazing Race. Do you want to do Amazing Race? I can think. We can talk about Amazing Race.
- [79:25]
B
I love that.
- [79:26]
A
Yeah. Letting them know that there is this big Rachel factor, that if they become. If they are going to sign up for it, then I'll give it to them.
- [79:36]
B
Honestly, that should have worked better than it did. I do think it worked to some degree. But, like, I really feel like they underestimated how much value you could bring to their act.
- [79:47]
A
They. Oh, they underestimated it so much. I was making shows for them. I was literally giving them pitches, ideas for shows. And, like, they did not. They were like, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, sure, honey, whatever you say. It was literally like that. I was like, are you. Was this a joke right now? Are you guys literally not listening to me? I literally.
- [80:06]
B
Mike White in the house.
- [80:07]
A
Like, right, Exactly. Oh, no, but what. Mike White. Like, I said that about Survivor 50. I'm like, like, yeah, he'll make it to the end. Because everyone wants a cameo on White Lotus. You know, I mean, it's. But it is. I thought, right? No, there's no lie. And I thought that that could kind of think people would think like that, you know, you. You guys, I'm giving you all this value. Let me help you with all these other things. And that didn't work. So then it was like, okay, well, don't mess with me or I will come for you too. That only worked a little bit. And then it was like. Like, you know, it was just me. It was just like I had to consistently, consistently to the point where I went to the diary room and would be like, I am annoyed with myself today for talking about myself so much. But I have to, because if I don't, they start to forget who I am, which is insane to think. But it's true. You forget. I don't know if it's the house or what, but, like, they would forget who I was. Was and what I've done. And I'm like, okay, well, I guess I gotta remind him again.
- [81:13]
B
I mean, at the end of the day, you outside of the advice that you could give, I would say, which people didn't take anyway. You weren't very valuable to a lot of people in the house because, yeah, you weren't winning competitions for your alliance most of the time. And you were just like a very savvy player who wasn't going to be manipulated and. And just blindly flipped. Follow. And so what value do you bring to players on that side of the house? Like, you are exactly the person I would want to target. Right. You know, may, you know, where it's like, there's not much ramifications because you're not as likely to win a blockbuster at this point, not as likely to save yourself. I take you out and you know, like, they did Caser in season six. Like, once we take out Caser or like the leaders on, we can trick Howie into targeting James. Like, yes, like 100%. And you, you really were like, you, you helped. You helped unite that side in a way that other players wouldn't be able to. And if they targeted you too, like, you know, you had support. That was the key, is that you had the support of people who wouldn't want to see you go up on the block. But if you did, they probably all would have been like, yeah, right.
- [82:32]
A
Oh, 100%. Yes. I think if I, I would have ended up going home if I ever. If I ever saw the block on eviction night, I was gonna go home. That's what I. I'm pretty much under that impression.
- [82:44]
B
I think. I think there's a good chance you would have, but it does depend on who you were sitting next to. Like, yeah, like, you versus, like, Ashley or something. They're probably like, why would we take out Ashley? We should definitely take out Rachel. You've you versus, like, you know, like, maybe even like a Catherine or like a Lauren or something like that. Like, I do think you still would have had a lot of support. It's just an a matter of numbers. Yeah, you might have had Ava. If you were against Catherine versus Lauren, you probably wouldn't have had Ava. So there's all kinds of stuff there. But. But, yeah, obviously just extremely dangerous if you touch the block, but people were scared to do it.
- [83:28]
A
It.
- [83:30]
B
This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. It's Cybersecurity Awareness Month, and LifeLock has tips to protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication, report phishing, and update the software on your devices. And for comprehensive identity protection, let LifeLock alert you to suspicious uses of your personal information. Lifelock also fixes identity theft guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and protected. With a 30 day free trial@lifelock.com podcast terms apply. Lauren has a conversation with Vince right after she wins the hoh and. And she's basically like, so I really think that, you know, Rachel is. Is dangerous. But I. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that. And Vince is like, no, no, I wouldn't do that either. I. I would never do that. And it's like they're both basically do it, but can't even to each other say that they're even willing.
- [84:29]
A
No. It was crazy when I saw that, I was like, is this for. Are they that bad? That that was a real conversation that happened. Because here I am, I'm thinking like, well, it's because I went up and I told Lauren I'm her big brother, big sister, and I'm friends with Janelle and now everything. And then I was just like, is she. So did that have sway or are they just that bad of players or was it just a combination?
- [84:51]
B
I think it's a combination because I think, think that you have to, you have to leave like the door open. Right? Like, if they think that they have no relationship with you, then there's even less incentive to like, what are they even burning if they try.
- [85:05]
A
But true, that's true.
- [85:06]
B
If they feel like, well, I don't necessarily trust Rachel. I'm scared of Rachel. But she's coming to me and saying, you know, she's my big sister and, you know she's coming. She is in the heavy hitters with me and, you know, like, Morgan is telling me that she's fine and, you know, like all of this stuff and it's like, there is something I'm losing on top of the risk. Even if I don't trust the thing I'm losing, there's still something there, which I think was always, always the big thing. And that was what you were so good at doing. And again, like, the patience that you had that I don't know that I would have of just like, even in the most frustrating of times, you're like, but we're still good.
- [85:49]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [85:51]
B
Yeah. Even though we're definitely not good.
- [85:54]
A
Yeah. I'm like, okay, this is great. There were so many times I would literally just go to the diary room and be like, I am so done. But, like, I know I have to go out there and play big brother, so I'm just gonna go play big brother. Yeah, this happened a lot.
- [86:10]
B
Yeah.
- [86:11]
A
Yeah.
- [86:13]
B
So you are. You are definitely a. I would say, like, a primary FL carrier this week of don't let Vince run Lauren's age.
- [86:26]
A
Right. Yes.
- [86:28]
B
Cla. Famously. You tell her. Don't let a. An unemployed man in his 30s tell you what to do. You also coached up Ashley a bit for, like, what she should be saying, saying, you definitely helped, like, lead that charge. And I talked with Ashley about this, but, like, a huge part of that week was just, like, me being okay Vince. Even though I was frustrated, I got it to some degree, and I. I didn't get it. But. But I could understand the logic of why he felt like he needed to nominate Kelly on his hoh, and I felt I understood why he needed to. He was scared to do. This is not even your hoh.
- [87:11]
A
I know.
- [87:12]
B
Why not push for the thing? And I do think that part of it is how he plays the game. But also part of it, of course, was he felt the pressure from you, from Ashley, of, like, they're gonna think I did this.
- [87:26]
A
Yeah.
- [87:28]
B
And. And he was very. Even in private conversations with Lauren, like, trying to hedge so that he could honestly say, we just talked. We just talked scenarios, you know, we just didn't. Pros and cons, because that is all he did. And it's like, should have just told her to do it. You know, like, this really was the week where, like, they should have lost the game. I mean, I said that a bunch of weeks, like, this is the week where they should be losing the game, but then something would happen, like a Mickey, and it's like, oh, the. Their game has been reinvigorated. They have another opportunity to. Then, okay, then they lose it again.
- [88:02]
A
Yeah.
- [88:03]
B
Yeah.
- [88:04]
A
This happened a lot. Yeah. But even that week with Ashley, because they wanted to put Ashley up as the replacement nom, which I was like. Like, oh, my God, this cannot happen. And I remember even we were talking, I thought for some reason, we thought Lauren liked sweet tea. And so we were like, okay, like, just go make her some sweet tea.
- [88:20]
B
Bring her a picture. What did they call her in the show? The bayou baddie.
- [88:25]
A
Bayou baddie. Yes, exactly. The bayou baddie. So we're like, go. Just go take her some sweet tea. Sit down to her. This is how you have to talk to Lauren, because Lauren doesn't like when you talk at her.
- [88:35]
B
Her.
- [88:36]
A
Like, we were sitting there talking about it, and. Because Ashley really did a lot of work this week, too, to make sure that Lauren felt comfortable with her. And I think this was also one of the times that Ashley's game was underestimated because she did a lot of work. Like, yeah, we did talk to Ashley about it, but she was like the main one spearheading this whole thing to make sure that she didn't go up because it was the Ashley going to talk to Lauren that ultimately I think, in my opinion, I know I've heard you say that you don't think that that was the reason, but I thought in my opinion that Ashley talking to Lauren being like, look, we can work together, look, we could do this, that and the other thing. And lowering Lauren's defense on Ashley, like, Ashley was like, I'm never coming for you. Like the girls shouldn't be coming for each other. So I thought that that had a lot of sway with Lauren for her putting up Adrian. And I know I've heard you say, I think that you thought it was more of events thing. Is that what you were. You're opinion?
- [89:31]
B
Well, listen, you can't take what I said at the time as accurate because I was wrong. Yeah, I got that one wrong. I really did not think Lauren was gonna put Adrian up. And so when I was like listening to those conversations, I was like, okay, like I, I, I think I said at the time, like, like Ashley really like stayed in there and really. And I appreciate that about it, but I didn't think it had changed her mind. And I really thought that, like, surely, because I hadn't been burned enough yet by Vince, I guess I really thought that surely Vince and Zach would wake up in the morning, have a conversation with her, make sure her head was on straight, and that everything would be going in the direction of Ashley going on the block. And then it didn't happen. And I was like, all right, eggs on my face. I got this one wrong. So, you know, in hindsight, I really do, obviously. Like, I actually, I put together like that little like clip for Ashley about like how she got in Vince's head.
- [90:35]
A
Yeah.
- [90:37]
B
What was not included in that clip was that he also referred to what you were doing at the time. Like, Rachel is telling her not to listen to a 30 year old unemployed man. You know, like, why is it, why is it like this? And of course Morgan is like, I don't think Rachel meant it that way. And, and so the thing about it, and it's always such a hard thing to track, like who actually made the impact. Jimmy's up there offering a deal, which seemed to matter to her. Mickey is up there saying, hey, you know, you don't, you don't want to swim with the Fishes if you make the wrong move. And. And. And then the Keanu revolution. She really seemed to cite Keanu as like, I don't want to be associated with Keanu.
- [91:23]
A
Yeah.
- [91:24]
B
Was an argument that was being made as well. So I'm sure there are many, many factors. And. And. And I think, honestly, just like, massive credit to all of you because it's, again, just, this move should not have happened.
- [91:38]
A
Oh, 100%. Especially for Lauren.
- [91:41]
B
And of all people, it was Keanu talking the most sense to be like, yeah, who cares if they're mad at you? If we make this move, we are the majority. They can't be mad at you because they are not in power. And it's like, yeah, but in that sense, he was you preaching to them and they weren't listening.
- [92:04]
A
Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it got pulled off. And I don't even still to this day don't know how the Adrian slip happened. I didn't know it was so close.
- [92:16]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [92:17]
A
So I. Yes, I heard you talking about that, and I was under the impression that it was never close. Like, I thought it was always a hundred percent locked in, which is why I did, like, obviously talk to Keanu about it. And I was like, you are gang lied to.
- [92:35]
B
But that was a very funny conversation. Yes.
- [92:38]
A
Yeah. Apparently. I. Yeah. You know, Well, I guess we were both wrong.
- [92:44]
B
To be fair. You were definitely more right.
- [92:48]
A
Yeah. But, yeah. And that Adrian. I mean, Adrian leaving, I think, was also a big deal for a lot of them. And even with Mickey, it was so weird. The last few days, I felt like Mickey was trying to keep Adrian.
- [93:01]
B
She was.
- [93:02]
A
And I thought that that was super weird.
- [93:04]
B
She really wanted Adrian to say she felt like she had developed. I mean, we see this later with Mickey with. With Riley and Catherine that, like, she sort of developed. Develops these relationships kind of out of nowhere and then thinks, yeah, I've got them.
- [93:19]
A
Yes, yes. No. And then she also. I thought she always would, like. She thought she got him, but then she also. It seemed like from our point of view, that she would have. She wanted her different pockets everywhere. She wanted everyone to, like, have her at the top of the pyramid, and then everyone else could be where, however they're doing stuff, as long as Mickey is their co. Closest person. And that was really interesting to see.
- [93:46]
B
Yeah. Well. Yes. So, yeah, Keanu wins this veto. You do. I would say this is when the reason you had that conversation with Keanu is because at this point, very funny. He starts to think, I can take pity on Rachel.
- [94:05]
A
Yes.
- [94:06]
B
She has nobody so why don't I try to get in with her and, you know, really try to get my fill up in the game, essentially. Yeah. And it's, I would say, the start of you having a working relationship again, even though the dynamics are very off.
- [94:24]
A
Yeah, I know. Well, that was when he, like, invites us to the Bad Guys two.
- [94:30]
B
Yes.
- [94:31]
A
And it just so happened. It was really interesting because Jimmy and I joke about it. We're like. He, like, invited me, Ava, and Jimmy, and at the time, we were, like, really close. Me, Ava, and Jimmy. We're, like, friends, so we were like. And I don't think he knew that we were all as close as we were.
- [94:49]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he. Yeah, he really felt like he was working separately, you know, you and Jimmy and.
- [94:56]
A
Yeah, you know. Yeah. Go figure.
- [95:01]
B
So the vote. You've probably heard a bunch of this already, but based on. Basically, you know, Lauren and Zach and Vince are the deciders here, and they're going back and forth a lot. The argument that Vince sort of makes against his own position here is, well, you know, you just. You just put up Adrian to. To please them. So now if you. If you broke a tie to get rid of them, him, then they. You do undo all of that work, and it's like, yeah, but Vince, you don't do undo all of that work. Right.
- [95:37]
A
Yes.
- [95:38]
B
It's good for you. So they try with you, they try with Jimmy, they try with Morgan very subtly to be like. To try to explore the option of if you were willing and very sort of like, they get the vibe from all of you. It's not happening. And of all people, it's Ava that they really make a hard sell.
- [95:56]
A
Yeah, I know. Well, so this is also what happened. That was super weird to me. So. So during that week, I don't remember when it was, but Adrian came to me and was like, will you keep me in the house? If you keep me in the house, I'm coming for Keanu. And I was like, why would you go for someone who's so actively and adamantly fighting to keep you in this game? And I was like, he hates liars, right? He hates liars or whatever, even though he's lying about everything. And. And then I was like, if he's gonna do that, then he. I was like, there's absolutely no way you can talk sense into this guy. I already knew Adrian was kind of a problem, and I'm like, no, I'm not keeping this guy. And Kelly was also trying to actively keep Adrian, and it was just. It was really odd because Adrian then would act like he would. Didn't want to work with them. And so I thought it was so weird that he was so, like, blatantly saying he didn't want to work with. With them. And to me, that I viewed that as, like, someone that you just can't trust.
- [97:00]
B
Yeah, understandably so. Yeah, he meant it at the time, too. Like, it wasn't about this one until the end of the week that he was like, maybe I shouldn't be going after.
- [97:12]
A
Yeah. I mean, too little, too late, Adrian.
- [97:18]
B
Yeah. So it really was. It was. Again, it was Ava here. They. They try to convince. Convince Ava, and she, of course, isn't gonna vote out Will.
- [97:28]
A
Right.
- [97:29]
B
And she says, frankly, I. I don't think it would be a very good idea to side with Keanu. And they're like, oh, you're right. Oh, no. And she gets them to. To flip back, and. And Lauren is even like, guys, I'm ready. Let's do it.
- [97:50]
A
Yeah.
- [97:51]
B
And they were like, actually, do we want to side with Keanu? Ava made a good point. And then after the vote, Ava, like, dances to the cameras in. In her room that she spends all her time in. I didn't. Big brother. I. I made a move on big brother. I convinced them, which is very funny.
- [98:12]
A
Yeah.
- [98:13]
B
But. Yeah, way, way closer than a lot of people realized. Of course, you watch the Ashley deep dive, so you know that she later gets this information out. Ava unwillingly.
- [98:23]
A
Yes.
- [98:24]
B
And so eventually is able to spread it around. But, yeah. Wild that they never got caught. And I was so confused as to why Ava didn't tell anybody about this.
- [98:32]
A
I know. I don't. I. Ava didn't tell anyone about a bunch of stuff, so I think that that was. She. I mean, she slept a lot, but also, like, she didn't. She didn't divulge a lot of information about the game. She never wanted to talk game, period.
- [98:49]
B
Yeah.
- [98:50]
A
Yeah. So I think that that was just part of her. Who she is. I don't even think it's. It was strategy, just part of who she is.
- [98:57]
B
Yeah. So then Riley wins the hoh, and only briefly, but what a. What a roller coaster for the fans.
- [99:09]
A
Well, can we talk about, too, why this started out as a problem in that hoh? So. So when they had to pick four people, I get to choose. I'm the legend. Yes, exactly. This part. Right. Get to choose. I'm a legend. So Keanu picks Mickey, Morgan, Ashley, and Will, the four people who I'm aligned with and my four closest Friends and gets them out of immediately in the first part. And so then I'm like, I'm starting to see a problem and, like, a pattern here because I'm like, oh, my God. Like, it is 100% them coming for us. So I start. We started all feeling like they were coming for us at that point. So then I was like, I needed to make sure that Keanu didn't win that hoh, and I was starting to realize that he wasn't going to work with us and that he didn't. He wanted to obviously get out my alliance, my people that I was working with. And I guess we didn't have, like, an alliance, but our friendship. And then I also noticed, like, it felt like in that. That Riley and Catherine were also. And Kelly were also working with Keanu. So Keanu also jumped on Riley after Riley won the hoh, which I don't think was ever shown on the cameras, but I know we talked about it because that was like a big deal for a long time.
- [100:34]
B
Growing out in the gym afterward as well.
- [100:36]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [100:37]
B
And again, like, percent Riley just didn't even seem to like Keanu.
- [100:43]
A
Right. But, yeah, it made no sense because he would always say that he was trying to get rid of him or he wasn't with that guy. And he.
- [100:50]
B
And he told that to Catherine too. Like, it was not like a facade. Right?
- [100:54]
A
Right. So, yeah, since it wasn't the facade, then to. To me, it seemed really weird that they would. That that was all going on. And so I just put my, like, antennas up, and I was like, well, I can't have them win. And then when Ryder was. Riley won, I went into the storage room and I was like, I'm retiring from Big Brother. I'm retiring from reality tv. That's it. It's my retirement party. I was throwing a full out, like, pity party. And then Mickey told me eventually, later on in the evening that she had the power. And then I was sad because they can't show everything, but I was like, oh, I'm gonna be a little actress and go on, go up. I put on my gown, I put on my makeup. I made sure that I. A show. Did they cut the feed during this for you guys? Did you see any of it?
- [101:45]
B
Yeah, we. We. We missed most of it. I would say we. We mostly got it through retails. And then what they showed us in the episode.
- [101:55]
A
Okay, yeah. So I. When Mickey told me to be the best actress I could be, I put on the gown. I tried to start convincing that it was me. Or that it was America or that it was Ashley. And Ashley didn't know that Mickey, because we. I pulled her in the room, and I was like, we have to pretend. So I wanted her to act like she want. She also wanted to act. She thought. I think she thought I had the power. Is that what she said in her deep dive?
- [102:23]
B
She. So she told. She talked to Mickey right after, and she said that she had thought it was Mickey and then had a conversation with you where she was like, is it Mickey? And you were like, don't. Don't say anything.
- [102:35]
A
I didn't tell her. That's right. That's right.
- [102:36]
B
And then she was like, wait, does. Wait, was it Rachel?
- [102:40]
A
Yeah. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Because I remember her retelling that in your deep dive that you did with her. And then. So she went up to Riley and was, like, trying to play it off to Riley like, it was her for sure. Right. So she did a really good job at that. Like, that was amazing. So I'm so glad that she did that, because when I went to Riley, I didn't talk for three minutes. I just let him listen to me, like. Or I just let him talk. And I was just like, huh, huh. Well, maybe it was America.
- [103:09]
B
Maybe it was America is great. Because. Yeah, like, obviously it wouldn't be. I know, but it's. It's like, it's totally a thing that, like, somebody would clumsily say if they were trying to deflect off of themselves.
- [103:22]
A
100%. Right, 100%. So I thought, like, if I could say it was America, that they would get confused and then that maybe they weren't thinking about how the power could have worked. So I tried to convince that. Or I was also thinking that if they thought America, maybe America voted for who this new HOH would be kind of thing too. Right. So I was thinking that it would be a way for him to think, like, well, maybe America voted Rachel to be the HOH takeover, whatever. Which is why I put on my gown and I did the full thing. And then with the Ashley fight, when they were like, oh, you're so happy, blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, oh, well, I'm. Let's. Let's take this off. Like, let's just go with this. And then I was like. Came for Catherine with the whole. I am sat. Because I was thinking, thinking, if they think I'm sticking up for Ashley, then they're gonna think that it is Ashley 100% or me. Because if they could put the blame on Me. But I. I was like, then it's either me or Ashley. And then they're not even thinking about Mickey, because then I pull Ashley to the other room. We stay in the room the whole time. Then Jimmy comes in the room, and I keep Jimmy in the room. And then Ava comes in the room, and I keep Ava in the room. And I'm like, none of you can leave until this night is over. Because I did not want it to get back acc. To anyone. I didn't want anyone talking about who they thought it could be or couldn't be. Because we needed Riley to just be convinced it was Ashley. And if that was the narrative, then I think, like, that we would have won because if that didn't go well, we would have all been in trouble. Like, yeah, I mean, it would have been probably Mickey, Ashley, and me on the block.
- [105:05]
B
I assume his planned nominations were Mickey, Morgan, Ashley, and. And who knows if, like, given the failed attempt, that might have. Because he told that to. Well, to be fair, he told that to Keanu. Prior to the alarm, he also talked with Catherine about potentially backdooring Zach because of the blindside Adrian vote and Vince under the bus for it. So they were really pissed at Zach. So it's again, like, you actually might have been okay there. Okay, but. But it definitely would have been sketchy as hell. Yeah. Oh, for sure.
- [105:43]
A
For sure. And I kind of also assumed with the power being even enact. Enacted, that he would have been even more upset because if I. I was trying so hard to get them to convince and I just got in a fight with Catherine. Like, Catherine. Yeah, exactly.
- [105:59]
B
Could have made things worse if it didn't.
- [106:01]
A
This would be real bad. This could be real bad for me right now. But it worked out. It worked out great.
- [106:06]
B
It was phenomenal work.
- [106:07]
A
It didn't work out great.
- [106:10]
B
Yeah, that's true. It was phenomenal work, though. Like, I. I can't reiterate enough just how much nobody thought this power would work. For weeks, we were all watching and, like, everyone knew for a fact. Even Riley was saying, yeah, Mickey has it, obviously.
- [106:29]
A
Right.
- [106:30]
B
And so it really was like you had a short period. Period of time to. To, like, unlodge a fact, a known fact from Riley's brain. And. And even so, you still had somebody like Vince who was trying to be like. No. Yeah, The. The key, I think, was, I mean, granted, given his feelings about Zach, I don't even know if. If he would have listened to Zach if Zach had tried to tell him Ashley. But. But. But even then, like, you can take credit for the fact that you got Adrian on the block. You got Adrian evicted, which made him not trust Zach in the first place. Right. You know, so just. Just great stuff and really should have been a crowning achievement of your entire alliance.
- [107:16]
A
Yeah. Well, I mean, Ashley, result of the week. Oh, I know. I know. Well, that's the problem. Right? Like, it started out such a great week, and Ashley had, like, worked so hard. We had all worked so hard to get. Make sure that that happened. And Mickey made great initial. No. And we were all jumping for joy. And then, like, you know what happens? The Jimmy of it all, which I still. I don't understand. That was also my. One of my biggest problems from the season because I went into Mickey for talk numerous times, explaining to her why this was a bad idea. Every argument she gave me, I had a rebound. It was like, no, but everyone wants him gone. Yeah, but that means he's a target, so we need to keep a target in the house. Oh, but there's other targets. Yes, I understand that, but this target is not coming for you. This target does not want you out. And it was just like, every single thing. It was. She had an excuse for putting up Jimmy. And I felt like I had a rebuttal for every single thing, but I didn't take into account that Morgan was so close with Vince. And I think Morgan and Vince and Zach had been spending every night together. Right. 4am all the time. Like, it was like they were. They were just all the time together 24 7. So I think that was our fault for the whole house to not recognize that there was. And we knew. But, like, it was like, we should have taken more action against that because it was like, 247 was with the three of them.
- [108:56]
B
Yeah. Well, part of the problem is that, like, Ashley got caught spreading that around because she told it to Kelly, who told it to Vince, talked to Zach, and then everyone was pissed at Ashley. She's a loudmouth. She's talking about them. And so, you know, I think it was, like, it became a little more taboo to even mention it. And Vince is going around, you know, talking about, like. Like, I'm sorry if people want to think that I'm like, I. I'm not in a final two with. With Morgan. You can ask her.
- [109:25]
A
Right, Right.
- [109:25]
B
I know we've never actually made a final two. And so. But the. This was an interesting time, though, because the them as a trio were kind of starting to separate. They were actually aligning with Lauren more. They were having conversations where they Were like, so who are we choosing between Lauren and Morgan? And they were like, we're kind of both leaning Lauren at this point. Yeah, yeah, we're both leaning Lauren. And.
- [109:55]
A
And.
- [109:56]
B
And so they were kind of, like, moving in that direction. And then also, Mickey and Morgan themselves were kind of starting to separate because, like, you know, Ashley especially was like, really in Mickey's ear about Morgan. And. And Mickey was starting to feel a type of way about the way that Morgan was acting with Vince and Zach. And so there's all kinds of chaos happening. But then when Mickey wins this hoh. Yeah, everyone's.
- [110:21]
A
They have the melting pot, right? Is that when the melting pot. Melting pot happens?
- [110:24]
B
That's. The melting pot happens sort of in response to the. The. The Jimmy nomination. But.
- [110:31]
A
Okay.
- [110:31]
B
But, like, they started to come back together to work as a unit prior to that, which is part of what made the Jimmy thing happen in the first place. So in terms of, like, why this is happening, it feels like many reasons. Of course, primarily, being Jimmy's HOA train really soured Mickey and Morgan on him in place. The first. First place. And she has this aversion to nominating Catherine because she feels like she's won Riley back, over, which she hasn't. Like, Catherine is literally having conversations with Riley where Riley's like, I want to go up there and I want to tell her if she does this, then it's over and she's done. And Catherine's like, riley, Riley. Yeah, down. You have to be nice. You have to pretend. And he go up there and be like, yeah, I just love her so much. And I would, you know, I can. And I love you, Mickey. And Mickey's like, I got him.
- [111:26]
A
Yeah, well, that was the problem. I know Mickey thought she. She thought from that point forward, she was going to be able to control Riley and Catherine if she didn't put Catherine up. And that was like, the deal that she made with them. And because of that deal, she was not even considering Catherine. So it was like, I thought Vince would be the best option, which he, by the way, he would have been. Oh, yeah, a great option and probably one of the better options. But, I mean, I think she could have put up Lauren, she could have put up Zach. It was like. And. But no matter who we would mention at the time, it was, for her, never an option. You know what I mean? And so with Jimmy, no options in.
- [112:06]
B
A house of, you know, 12 other people, right?
- [112:08]
A
Literally, it's like week four. Like, you have all the options in the world. You don't have to put up your ally, who, by the way, like I said, would have been a target, would have been someone that people would have like. Jimmy had such a big personality. There was no way he was going to just kind of slide through the rest of the season.
- [112:26]
B
And you didn't even know this at the time. They were in a final three together. He eventually tells you.
- [112:30]
A
Well, that was. Yeah, that was the crazy thing, too. Yeah.
- [112:34]
B
Like, they are, like. They are like the. One of the tightest cores of the onion structure that they kind of had. And she's like, let me just pull this Jenga piece out and just tumble the entire thing.
- [112:51]
A
Let it. Let's let it all go. Yeah, let's let it all. It was like I was blown away. And. And. And Jimmy was doing everything for our group, too. He was like, you know, cooking and cleaning, and he would, like. He was, like, massaging Mickey's feet the week before she nominated, like, that same week that she nominated him. And I was like, this is. This is crazy that you would just, like, put someone. Your ally like that on the block.
- [113:21]
B
And she would cite his conversations with.
- [113:22]
A
Keanu, who she didn't even like, allegedly.
- [113:27]
B
Right. Which was like, you know, she literally had a conversation. Conversation with him. I don't remember if she had this with you because she talked with Morgan about it after, but she had a conversation with him where she was, like, essentially telling him why? Because he was like, yeah, I had a conversation with Keanu where I tried to get him to not target me. And she was like, why wouldn't you allow him to be mad at you instead of mad at us? Because if he's mad at you, that's only one person. If he's mad at us, it's right, people. You should have let him want to target you. It's like, what player in Big Brother is going to be like, yeah, you know what, Keanu? I'm the problem. Target me.
- [114:01]
A
I'm the problem. Right. 100. I know. What do you mean? I think that. But she. She wanted to always be, like I said, she wanted to be the top of the pyramid. And if there was like, a pyramid or like a Jenga, that's a great example, too. She would just pull Jenga piece out from wherever, not thinking about if the tower was going to fall because she thought she always had the extra Jenga piece to go out the top. And it was like, no. No Big Brother players ever going to blame it on themselves. No. There's no way. No world where Riley's not going to forget that you took over his hoh. There's no world where Riley's going to, you know, think because you kept Catherine safe that he's not going to come for you. It's just like all these things didn't make any sense. But then. Oh, and also, again, there's no world where she could have thought that I wouldn't have been upset knowing how close Jimmy and I were, that I was to going like, it was just like, crazy that, like, she.
- [114:59]
B
She was so mad at Jimmy for his HOH when he didn't listen to her and he nominated an ally and then was Jimmy.
- [115:07]
A
But even doing it again, yes, 100% was Jimmy. But even worse. And then on top of it was like, well, everyone should just go with what I say. I'm the hoh.
- [115:18]
B
They should respect my Ashley.
- [115:20]
A
Oh, my God. So mad at Ashley.
- [115:23]
B
Yeah, but not.
- [115:24]
A
It wasn't just Ashley. She got mad at Will for not. Not respecting her hoh. And then when Jimmy went up, she wanted us to all just like, you know, 86 him. Like, that's a restaurant term where you just like, don't you just cut something off the menu, like, just not talk to him anymore. Right. Like, she wanted us to, like, not because Jimmy's up now. He's the target. Everyone needs to go with me because I'm the hoh. They should respect what I. I'm doing. And I heard that around the house so much, and I was like, what is actually going on? Like, this is insane. Since when in Big Brother also, are we just blindly following what the HOH wants when the HOH doesn't have power? After their second nomination, the Renam HOH power done. Nobody understood that this season. I would tell them all the time after the readom, the HOH doesn't have power. Nobody understood. Understood. So it's like, okay, yeah, yeah.
- [116:21]
B
There's. There's a very funny conversation. I think part of it makes the edit with. With Will, Ashley and Mickey where Mickey is kind of reaming Ashley out and Will is. This is like his worst nightmare. Because, you know, Will, he wants to just side with you in any conversation, but now he's in the middle of this and Mickey, Mickey's like, will, what do you think? And he's like, well, yeah, I mean, it's actually. You do sometimes talk like, what do you mean? What? Like, like, give me an example. Well.
- [116:59]
A
Yeah, I totally remember that.
- [117:02]
B
Oh, all right. So the other thing that happens this week is. I believe this is P gate is.
- [117:12]
A
Oh, yes, it is. P Gate. Yes, that's correct. Yeah.
- [117:16]
B
And. And I. So I talked kind of. I cited this as a turning point in your relationship with Keanu because you get into this big fight, and then afterward, he realizes that Kelly instigated the fight and lied.
- [117:34]
A
Yeah.
- [117:35]
B
And remember, Kelly was, I think, think a huge part of why he, like, really didn't trust you in the first place. And so when he starts to realize, wow, Kelly's making things up about Rachel, maybe I shouldn't be believing everything I'm hearing about Rachel. And so at this point, I think he starts to trust you more. But the problem is he still trusts many of the guys even more, and Vince specifically. But it's still, like a turning point.
- [118:05]
A
Yeah, well, I think with that. So I. In my. From my point of view, I woke up, I come to the bathroom. There's like, a puddle of pee. Like, the bathroom smells like pee. The shower has pee in it. And I am. We're all cleaning up the pee in the bathroom, cleaning up the pee in the shower. Whatever was in the shower. I'm scrubbing the tile, like, the grout in the freaking bathroom. And. And then comes in this dude who's like, rachel, why are you saying it's me? Like, well, I don't know. Why don't you just pick up a glove and not come at me? Basically. Right? And so I. And everyone else was helping, and, like, then what? I'm the one scrubbing the floor in my. Like, this was, I don't know, 9am or something. I'm like, what? And plus, like, it's not. It's gross. It is not okay. The showers, pee. There's pee in the toilet. Like, why is there a puddle of pee on the floor? Like, that is not okay. And I heard Ashley say, like, she was a squatter, that she wasn't going to clean shit up because it was in her house. But in my opinion, I'm like, if I'm a guest in someone's house, I'm not going to go to their house and leave it messy. Like, I'm the girl in a hotel room who's cleaning up before room service comes. You know what I mean? Like, I can't, like, leave my house or someone else's house a hot mess. And I'm more likely to leave my own space a hot mess than I am someone else's or where I have to be living with a bunch of other people. And so I was constantly cleaning. And this was also, like, one of the last straws because it was like. And Then the night before was the pregnancy argument, where the argument was, oh, if you are working out when you're pregnant. And I was like, well, see? And we were all having a normal conversation and I was talking to the girls and I was like, well, I know that when you're pregnant you can't lift, like, weights. And in my brain, I was thinking heavy weights. And then Keanu interrupted me and was like, you can. I know. And I was like, I'm a mom of two. I know. And then he was like, no, I know. I'm a fitness instructor and I train pregnant pregnant women. And I'm like, it's like heavy weights, Keanu. It's like, you can't. Like, I'm glad that you're a doctor and you know all about being a doctor or whatever. And I was like, I hope your insurance covers your medical advice that you're giving to women. And then I was just sitting there and I was trying to, like, defuse the bomb. And I, like, must have looked in his direction. He was like, why are you looking at me? And then I was like, okay. And so I left the room. That happened literally the night before and then the next day, which is why the whole thing, because Kelly was like, it's probably the same person that got fight with you about the pregnancy. And it was like then that instigated that. And I was like, what is wrong with you? And he had been fighting. And then we also had the full three clips of the Hayden where he was like, I saw the clip of Hayden. I saw the clip of you, Reagan yelling at you. It was literally like my worst moments from Big Brother 12. And that happened. Then the. The Riley in the beginning of the week, him going after Morgan and Mickey and Will and Ashley. Then it was the pregnancy thing and I already knew he didn't like me. So it was like all of that on top of the fact that he didn't like me. And I think that I just had my. I was just like, why do you keep messing with me? Like, this guy just keeps messing with me and continuously is like saying. Saying stuff, just singling me out. He didn't come in the bathroom to be like, hey, why are you guys all saying I would did this? Or, hey, guys, it's not me. It was like Rachel, you know, So I was just tired of him singling me out for every single thing. And he did that to me all summer, all season. It was always me. It was never anyone else. It was literally always me. Rachel's always wrong. Rachel's Always doing this, Rachel's doing, doing that. It's like, bro, it's not me. Like, I didn't. I just got so annoyed with it. So anyways, that's my little. My little piece of pgate backstory, the pk. That's from my perspective. And I don't know if I'm wrong. That's just from my perspective, I could be totally wrong. But that is what happened. And yes, Kelly did instigate it, but by the same. Same token, like, it could have been handled differently. Look, I could have handled it differently. I'm not saying that that wasn't the correct way to handle it, because it wasn't. Anyways, after that, I did apologize, and, you know, I tried to move forward, but then, of course, when Jimmy left, I think that was the biggest turning point because I really felt like after Jimmy left and everyone lied to me during that vote, by the way. Like, I thought Riley. I had talked to Riley and Catherine before the vote, and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to vote to keep Jimmy. Yeah, yeah, I got you. So Riley and Catherine lied to my face. Morgan. I knew Morgan, Zach and Vince were the reason that. That Jimmy was on the block. I thought Ashley. I thought for sure Ashley was with me. But then after the vote, I didn't know because she said she didn't vote, which now I know she thought she didn't vote, but I thought she was just saying, like, no, it wasn't me. And then I was like, well, great. Now Ashley's against me. Will is against me. Ava didn't want to vote with me, so I guess I just felt very alone. And. No. And I walked. After Jimmy left, I was crying. I walked to the wine room, and nobody looked at me. Nobody talked to me. Nobody felt bad. Like. And literally, this is the house of people that cry over Zay's eviction. Like, giving Zach hugs, like, Zach lost the best friend of his life and. And that, you know, his showmance or something. Right. And like, oh, Zach, we're so sorry. And then I, like, am crying, bawling, crying over Jimmy, and everyone just stares at me like, well, sorry. So I, like, went to the wine room by myself, and nobody wanted to. Nobody came in. And then finally, Keanu came in, and I was like, okay, well, I don't know. I'll talk to you, I guess, like, it was. But, yeah, that did definitely change. Change my opinion on him at that point.
- [124:33]
B
Yeah. So Jimmy is evicted. Ava wins the hoh. Huge results.
- [124:41]
A
Huge results. So, well, listen, when Jimmy got evicted. I knew that I had to change my game. Like, that was big, a big turning point for me. And I felt like even though I had been able to stay off the block the first four weeks, I knew that that week, that was the week that I actually was like, I'm going to light this house on fire. Because, like, I knew I had to kind of change everything I was going to do. If I couldn't, I couldn't play the same game that I had been playing in the beginning part of the season. So that, for me was a big turning point. I just felt like I didn't have allies. I felt like I didn't know what was going on. I felt very outside of everything. But this Ava week is what really cemented everything for me. So, by the way, how annoying was it that during a knockout comp that nobody wanted to play a knockout comp?
- [125:42]
B
I mean, it was very emblematic of the season as a whole.
- [125:44]
A
Oh, my God. It drove me insane.
- [125:47]
B
Any volunteers?
- [125:49]
A
Yeah, literally. Who volunteers for a knockout comp? I was like, so then finally when I got picked by Vince, I was like, well, I'm going to play a knockout comp. I'm going to show these newbies how you play knockout comp. And it worked really great for, like, three rounds until I got myself out by making the wrong decision. And Will was going to throw it to me, too, which was so frustrating because I think if Will threw it to me, it would have been Ava versus Riley. Let's just assume it was still them. And then I think Ava, I either could have beat her or that she might have even thrown it to me because she was. She didn't really want to win an hoh. She didn't really. Nobody really wanted to be head of household because they didn't want the heat and they didn't want to have to make decisions. But I will say, in a season with three nominees, likely a fourth nominee if you're Jimmy. Five nominees. Being head of household is not advantageous. It's just not a great strategy anymore. And I think that that is the fault of the game. And look, I like three nominees. I love the blockbuster. As a fan watching the show, it gives us something else to watch. It gives us something else to talk about what's actually going to happen. But I think it is becomes extremely obvious to me throughout this season that being ahead of household, which is usually the most important, the most important card to carry is hoh. Right? Because you make active decisions in the game, you build your resume, are able to control kind of the narrative, you get power, and it's a great power to usually have because you can sway people's opinions. There's so many benefits to it, but in a season with three nominees and the possibility of a fourth, it does not become an advantageous card to hold. And I think that that was really obvious with this cast. I think we didn't see it as much last year because it was the first season they did it, but now that they're continuing to do it, I worry that that is. Is going to change the whole way that Big Brother is being played.
- [127:59]
B
I think. I think my response to that would be that I think that the way this cast plays as hoh, it's not beneficial.
- [128:09]
A
Right.
- [128:10]
B
And something that we talked about during the season is that it does feel like we're still in this adjustment period where players don't know how to play in this way, and they think that this is such a scary thing. There's potentially four nominees. Therefore, I need to put up allies. Therefore, I need to put up Amy's and Wills and Jimmy's instead of feeling like, well, no, I can still use this. As long as I'm not scared, I can still use this to my benefit. And. And. And I think it. It obviously does diminish the power of the hoh, but I. I still personally feel like if you play. Play boldly and if you are not scared and you don't put up allies, you can absolutely still use HOHs to start to subjugate the minority. And, you know, yeah, you should be able to.
- [129:03]
A
And, like, for my hoh, I was able to do that. And for some of the HOH, even with AVA's, to an extent, because she put up three. She puts up three big players. Right. But we saw the first three weeks, it was like Keanu Kelly. Adrian Keanu Kelly, you know, Amy, it was just like the same thing happening. And I really think it would have been Amy Will, if we were not able to kind of take the power back, because on Mickey's and then Ava's in the mind, there was a chance that Will would have still gone up as a pawn or still gone up as, like, well, we need a third. A third nominee. Like, which should we do? You know? So I also worry that in the future it will be like that, where it's like, two targets and a pawn.
- [129:49]
B
Yeah.
- [129:49]
A
And I. I wonder if they'll start to notice if that happens. But it's.
- [129:54]
B
I do think that. Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
- [129:56]
A
No, I'm just gonna say three Nominees is kind of like a new interesting way to play this game.
- [130:02]
B
I do think that because this is another thing we talked about. But like this is there. There's a couple of things I think. One is that if the competitions are such that there is one or two, there are one or two players that can win a bunch like Keanu and Kelly, then yeah, we are probably going to see like the same nominations over and over as you continue to try to get them out over and over. And on top of that, because you have extra seats to fill, probably going to see the same pawns over and over. And that's what we did see in. In 26 and 2027 is basically same set of nominees week after week. And I do think that's a significant downside. I think the way to change that would be a wider variety of competitions and, and a cast that is more bold, that is just more willing to make bolder moves. But it may also just be an inherent flaw in the three nominee format and maybe it's just needs to be shifted again. But, but I think it's very interesting like unlike most like twists and, and structures that the producers make, which I often think are just flat out terrible ideas with no upside. Like at least this one is like there is some upside to it even though there are downsides as well.
- [131:20]
A
And I agree and I think you're right. If there was three nominees with player with a season of All Stars or a season of people that do want to play bold and maybe in a few years we'll start to see players get more adjusted to that format so they'll come in with a different strategy. But yeah, the three nominees is. Is very interesting. And I think also by the way, the Kelly Keanu wasn't getting nominated over and over again just because they. We didn't like them. It was like they were winning competition. Like of course course people want to get out.
- [131:55]
B
They were supposed to be evicted and then they weren't. So then you have to try again.
- [131:58]
A
You have to try again. Right, exactly. So it was like, oh, are they the underdog? No, they're just like someone that you can't get rid of. It's like. And then are they there for going up over and over again for a reason? Yes, because they're picking fights with people constantly.
- [132:15]
B
I mean there's a reason Ashley didn't start going up a bunch of times.
- [132:18]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [132:19]
B
Worked her way into the show.
- [132:20]
A
She worked her way into it. Yeah. And I thought that was brilliant when I heard her say that she Was able to keep just enough of a target on herself that she was. People thought she was annoying and. But also not enough of a target where they wanted her to go home because they were not threatened by her. That was genius. Like, she played this game so well, and, like, even better than I, living with her, gave her credit for, because she was just playing such a great game that. And I'm so glad that she won. I'm so glad that she owned her. Her strategy at the end of the season. And I just. Just. I feel like, what a great ending to this season, right? Like, yeah, what a crazy season, but what a great ending. Anyways, off track. So Ava wins.
- [133:04]
B
Ava wins.
- [133:05]
A
Ava wins.
- [133:06]
B
I don't think you knew how much Ava seemed to hate Ashley. I don't think that was something she's never talked to you about.
- [133:14]
A
Never. But probably because Ashley and I have been relatively close since day one.
- [133:19]
B
This is where some people, I think, thought. And I'm not sure I necessarily agree, because who really knows where it came from? But some people definitely thought that part of it could have been that if you were supposed to have a final two with her, she felt like maybe you were closer to Ashley and maybe that could have been part of this. But it's really. I mean, it was really intense at times, so it's kind of like, who knows?
- [133:41]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And I had no idea. And living with them, so it was really interesting to. To see. But, like, also, by the way, like, I. A lot of people would tell me how much they didn't like Ashley, and I just thought that was so weird, too, in general, because I was like, Ashley's, like, delightful. Like, it blew my mind.
- [134:03]
B
I think, like, people just feel it's. Again, it's the social dynamic thing where if somebody is perceived to be on the outs, then it's, like, socially acceptable to be, like, like, yeah, your friend. I don't like her very much. That's acceptable, right? Like, right.
- [134:19]
A
And it's like, no, not to Rachel Riley. That's not acceptable.
- [134:22]
B
Right?
- [134:23]
A
Like, some of these people, sure. But, like, don't talk about my friends. And I noticed with Ava's hoh, So I did know Will and Mickey were definitely up there a lot, making a lot of decisions for her. But, like, I think so Ava tells me right away, oh, you're. You don't have to worry about anything this week. Take this week easy. Use it to, like, like, you know, what did she say? Like, use this week to form other relationships. So I was like, okay, like, I'm Good. Like, I'm gonna, you know, form other relationships this week, and I didn't think of it as much. I didn't know Mickey and Morgan were going behind my back this week, like, you know, trying to do all that work to get me out of the house. I kind of, like, caught wind. Wind of it. I, I, I was very good because probably because I've played for 15 years, like, not just one game, like, numerous strat. Like, numerous social games. Right. Where it's like, I think I can read when people are distancing themselves. I was really good at, at kind of getting a, like, a social dynamic from other people, like, if they would. How they would communicate with me or how they would hang out with me or stuff like that. So I was really, really good at that. So I was able to pick up cues that Mickey, especially in the beginning of the week, was still mad about the whole Jimmy thing. She probably picked up cues from me that I was upset about it. So I knew that there was a separation there, but I didn't know how much she was going to, by the end of the week, really be targeting me.
- [136:02]
B
Yeah. So I think part of what happens here is, is for Mickey, again, trying to get into her head and speaking for her predictor, sort of like my own interpretation of what she was doing at the time, you know, she was still, still like the work that you had put in with her against Vince the week before, where she did very nearly put Vince up. And then Morgan came in and was like, you can't. You can. Yeah, that was still there. And she said it to Morgan multiple times, like, I know that this melting pot alliance benefits you. You have Vince and Zach. I have nobody because I just took out Jimmy. And so she was still skeptical about that. She also had heard now from Ashley about how Zach and Vince did try to fill up the Adrian vote, which I'm sure was in her mind. So she very much was like, okay, I need to protect, like, my people here. Ashley cannot go on the block. It should be Zach. But in her mind, the target should still be Keanu. And she's gotten into a fight with him recently at this point about some of the things he said. And so she still wants the target to be Keanu. And at this point, you don't really want the target to be Keanu. You want the target to be either Vince or Zach, because you want to take one of them out of the game. And so this is where the real, like, conflict, I think, comes in, because they, you know, Morgan and Mickey and Zach and Vince in the. The melting pot alliance. You know, as. She's like, wow, I can't believe Ava did that. Guys. You know, they're also being told, like, hey, Mickey might have been part of that. And by. By you actually. Sorry.
- [137:43]
A
Yeah.
- [137:46]
B
And so there's all kinds of stuff happening here, and she's getting kind of closer to them and continuing to want to potentially protect them and take out Keanu while you are. Are trying to take out Vince and keep Keanu. And that's where the Things really start to splinter. You, of course, have that conversation with Morgan in the storage room. She basically is using this conversation to be like, To. To get a vibe on how open you are to keeping both Zach and Vince.
- [138:16]
A
And. Yeah.
- [138:17]
B
And you're like, no.
- [138:20]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [138:23]
B
And then, of course, you have this. This whole thing of. About you and your friends. If you think you're gonna be coming, bringing me the jury, you've got another thing coming.
- [138:35]
A
Morgan didn't like that very much. I guess.
- [138:36]
B
He did not. She had a whole conversation. Did you. Did you watch the update where I recapped her conversation with Zach on the hammock after that?
- [138:43]
A
Oh, yeah. She was like, rachel thinks that friends and we're an alliance and all this. And I was like.
- [138:50]
B
She said friends.
- [138:52]
A
Yeah, exactly. She said friends with an. But like, yeah, Morgan, you were an alliance with them. So. So, yeah, yeah, I know she was not happy about that, but, yeah, so that's.
- [139:07]
B
That's really where I think things started to deteriorate.
- [139:09]
A
And. Yeah.
- [139:10]
B
And then after that conversation, Morgan goes up and talks to Mickey about it, and they're like, wow, I can't believe her. And again, I think on Mickey's end, it was less so about, like, oh, she said she got into an argument. Argument with Morgan, and more so about the fact that you clearly were saying no to keeping both Zach and Vince. And that's where things really went south for Mickey. For Morgan, of course, it was the argument and the friends. And. And so, you know, they then started to feel like they were against you. They were campaigning against you to try to get Keanu out. And. And. And then it just really deteriorated from there as Mickey started, like, holding one on ones to be like, everyone has to agree we're all taking a shot at Rachel next week.
- [140:01]
A
Which, yeah, that's crazy.
- [140:03]
B
Didn't make any sense. For the idea that they would take out Keanu and then take you out would have put her in an awful position with Lauren and Vince and Zack and Morgan and Riley.
- [140:17]
A
Riley and I Know, it was like, it really blows my mind how bad she was at strategy. Like, so bad. But you know what else was blowing my mind? So obviously that week I did. I didn't care if it was Zach or Vince, but, like, I really wanted Vince out. And I was trying so hard to get everyone to see Vince needed to leave. And Vince was the worst person for the game this week, which I think that was also. I started like the week before with Ava. Convince like tok or I started planting seeds with Ava a few weeks before that. But then the seeds really came to fruition during the. The gardener speech that Ava gives.
- [140:58]
B
I remember, I think the week before, or maybe even two weeks before.
- [141:02]
A
Yeah.
- [141:02]
B
After you had made the final two with Ava, you basically said, like, watch, Vince.
- [141:08]
A
Yes. Yeah.
- [141:08]
B
And then she came back to you and was like, now that you've pointed it out, I'm seeing him.
- [141:13]
A
Yeah.
- [141:14]
B
Go to these places, and he's coming to me and saying, we're thinking this. Who's we?
- [141:18]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Who is we? Vince? We could be anyone, because Vince had a thousand final twos. But, yeah. So I was really also trying to still push people toward wanting Vince out this week. And it felt like every time that I would try to push out Vince, that it would make him a stronger. Like, it made a stronger argument for why people. People wanted to keep him. And it was like. Did not make sense to me. Did not. I did not understand.
- [141:50]
B
It was exactly that the more you pushed Vince, that actually was the reason Vince stayed over Zach was because Mickey was saying, well, Rachel's targeting Vince. She's trying to work with Zach. So we have to keep Vince and we have to take out. Because it was Vince for a moment there. But. But because Mickey had taken such an anti race Rachel stance, she decided that she needed to do the opposite of what you wanted. And so.
- [142:19]
A
And I told. Yeah. Vinnie saying crazy. I told Ava, too, that week, like, Mickey's holding one on ones in your hoh room. Like, are you okay with what she's doing? So at that point, I think was when. The point when Ava started disliking Mickey because she was like, oh, oh, Mickey is doing all this to me.
- [142:40]
B
And Mickey would. Mickey would run up there and Ava would be sleeping, and she'd wake Ava up and be like, okay, so this is what we're doing now. We're gonna take out Zach or we're gonna take out Vinnie, and this is what you need to be doing. And by the way, we all hate Rachel now.
- [142:58]
A
Yeah.
- [142:58]
B
So we need to be targeting her. And Ava would just be like, okay, yeah. And then she'd be up there, like, an hour later. Okay, so now we're gonna take out Zach. Actually, we've changed. So make sure you. If there's a tie, make sure you that you're, you know, looking in the right direction. You're not going to break a tie in favor of piano. Right? Like, that would be. That'd be silly. And she's like, ah, okay, fine.
- [143:18]
A
Yeah, that checks out. Because Ava, Well, Mickey, after her hoh, changed personalities. Like, literally just changed personalities. And then she thought she could run Ava's HOH to the. Like, to the detriment of Mickey's own game, because Ava started to realize it, too, and we all started to realize it, but Mickey just started, like, it was just crazy that week, the stuff that she was doing and how much she was, like, trying to game and over game. And I don't know. Like, I feel like I definitely tried to talk to Ava throughout that hoh, but again, it was like, Vincer, Zach, who cares? Like, I didn't really care which one went home. And then I was trying to tell, like, keanu, hey, you probably need to win Blockbuster, because otherwise you're probably going to get voted out. Because then at the end of that week, it was like, they were like, oh, well, we'll just vote out Keanu if he go. If he's up there. And I was like, hey, you're definitely going to get voted out, so you need to win. And that was, like, so frustrating because.
- [144:26]
B
Oh, I was right there with you.
- [144:28]
A
Yeah, yeah. And then he's like, no, no, I can throw it. Like, we're in the middle. And then the same thing. I had that conversation before the hoh because Zach got voted out, and I was like, I am on the outs with the whole entire house. I need to win HOH this week. I know Mickey's coming for me. I know Morgan's coming for me. I tried to gauge it from Ashley. Ashley did tell me, like, hey, they're definitely coming for you. And Ava had kind of told me they're coming for me without telling me. And she was like, yeah, I don't. I think you're in danger. Um, and I remember thinking, like, okay, Ava and Ashley both told me this, and I already knew. I already had the idea. So I know if I'm in danger that, like, I've got to win hoh. And I knew that that was, like, so important for me to win hoh. And I knew that, like, I assumed that if it was like, me, that they would probably put Keanu up, too. So I was like, okay, then, like, if one of us doesn't win, we're both going on the block. Because I know it wasn't going to be right. Riley. Because Mickey was, like, all about Riley, and I just, like, went through all the scenarios, and then Keanu told me in the storage room that we were in the middle, and I was like, like, no. No, we are not.
- [145:44]
B
No.
- [145:44]
A
Yeah.
- [145:45]
B
Yeah. Mickey. Mickey had launched a full. Not only the full campaign against you, but she had already also started. She had, like, a whole conversation with Ashley, or she was like, you need to start distancing yourself from Rachel. Yeah, you really need to start that because you don't want to go to. And she was also telling people that she was gonna put. Put Ashley up as a pawn. Telling Ashley she's gonna put Ashley up as a pawn next to you.
- [146:07]
A
People tried to constantly get Ashley and I to be apart. Like, I remember there was a time when Keanu was like, oh, well, you have to, like, start distancing yourself from Ashley. And I was like, no, I'm not gonna do that. And, like, I can't lose Ashley. Like, I just remember, like. Like, he did not want Ashley and I to be friends. It felt. It felt like, from my point of view, and he didn't. Like, he did not like Ashley. And then Mickey did not want me and Ashley to be friends. And then Mickey was always trying to get Ashley and I to not be friends. And so it was, like, super weird. Why everyone was always trying to get Ashley and I to not be friends. Like, it never made any sense to Ashley or I. But, like, looking back on the game, I think it was always just a power grab.
- [146:55]
B
Yeah. And you. You also have the conversation with Zach I mentioned before. You basically are hinting at him, hinting to him, hey, you know, Mickey got you on the block in the first place, is basically campaigning against you. He actually did take that in and kept it to himself for a second.
- [147:17]
A
There for, like, 10 seconds.
- [147:20]
B
He went to. He went to. Morgan was like, hey, like, I'm hearing some stuff about Mickey. She's like, who? Tell who. Who's telling you that? And he's like, I. Rachel. Like, no, no. But then, like, later the next. Or later that night, because you went overnight for the punishment, they had the hammer conversation. And he opened up and told her that you told her. Told him about Mickey, and she was like, you have to tell Mickey about this. And I. I really don't want to tell Mickey about this. He eventually did on the bed, on the. The instruction of Morgan also then didn't use his veto power.
- [147:56]
A
Right. I don't understand how he did not use that veto power. That's crazy to me.
- [148:00]
B
It is. We don't understand it either, Rachel.
- [148:05]
A
No, I mean, I guess he just wanted $10,000, I guess.
- [148:07]
B
You know, Rachel, going into. Going into that Thursday, because Keanu had had that conversation with you about throwing the blockbuster. Yeah, I had a tweet written up about the. His historically bad decision making of the person evicted. And I was. I literally was just going to plug in. Either Keanu throws the blockbuster and makes a colossally, historically bad move and got himself evicted, or Zach didn't use his veto power and had a historically bad colossal. And I was just like, what are we even doing? We have literally an adventure for all time. Worst move.
- [148:43]
A
Right, and exactly. Literally what are we doing? It was just the reads on the people in the house were just bad. They were just bad. And Ashley had warned Zach that he might. Yes, he. It's like 50 50. And I had tried to explain to Zach that it was like likely him after. If it was like, if it wasn't Keanu, it was Zach. And then it was like, I don't know what happened, why the boys never wanted to look, listen to the girls. But.
- [149:15]
B
You also tried to tell Kelly and Keanu about the heavy hitters this week.
- [149:19]
A
I did. So that's. Yes. That was because I was so mad at the alliance that I was in and they were starting to turn against me. So I said, you know what? Fuck it. And I went to tell Keanu and Kelly that there's alliance called the heavy hitters that we had. I was trying to make it out to be even more of like what it was that we were like working together the whole time and like just trying to like, really like, let them know that there was something going on that they weren't involved in so that they would trust me. Then go figure. Someone goes. And immediately, immediately goes. Immediately front of my face too, by the way. Like, it wasn't like, hey, man, can I talk to you in the gym? Like, at least, like, let's pretend that you're not going to immediately just go right to this person and talk to them. Like it was. It was immediate. And then also this was the week that I tried to get the thing with Kelly started where I pulled her in the room and I was like, in the have not room. Hey, Kelly, let's work together. We can just like Try to have this alliance. We can try to work together. Like, listen, we can be. Have you seen Survivor? Boston Rob goes on, you know, goes through the whole season with this guy. Like, we could work. We could do the newbie thing. Like, whatever, I'll coach you on Big Brother. Like, I was giving her every. Everything to work with me. And then Kelly went and told. I think it was like, I was walking with Kelly one day and I was like, mickey is icing me out. And there was this whole grilled cheese gate. Do you remember a grilled cheese gate?
- [150:59]
B
Yeah, yeah. And the icing out comment. Yeah, too.
- [151:01]
A
And the icing out comment. And so Kelly went to them and told them that I had said this and this was all this week. And then. And I was just like, this is like, crazy. I'm trying to literally work with you. I can't trust Kelly. I, like, didn't know. And then at that point, I'm like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. Like, who can I work with? Because they all run and tell someone else.
- [151:26]
B
This too was actually, like, I would say the closest you and Kelly came to actually working together. Like, she actually was seemingly trying to work with you. It's just that she is also just an instigator, which I do have the.
- [151:39]
A
Oh, man. Why I instigate so much, which was.
- [151:43]
B
Actually in response to this situation because I do. Because she was seemingly actually moving in this direction, but she was then also still doing her Kelly thing. And Keanu, too, was, I think, trying to genuinely work with you. Just.
- [152:00]
A
Yeah.
- [152:01]
B
You know, unexpendables were first. And he goes straight to Vince. Vince goes straight to Mickey. And this was really like, you know, I would say at this point, it was already like, this wasn't like the turning point, like, that she was already against you, but it was just another. Another.
- [152:17]
A
Another extra thing. Yeah, I know, I know. It was crazy. And so I knew. I knew by the end of the week that I had to win the hoh. It was like, literally there was no other option. There was just no other option. Which also blew my mind because I don't know why that Kiana would have thought he would have been fine in a vote or that he. He would have been fine if he had been on the block for five weeks in a row at that point. It was like, why would you think that? You're in the middle. You're literally on the block every week.
- [152:49]
B
He thought he had Riley and Catherine. He thought he had Vince. He thought he'd have you? And I think because he still had his relationship with you and with Kelly and then he had his thing with Riley and Vince that. That he. And. And like, with Lauren that, like, that he was good. That it was really just. It was Mickey, Morgan, and. And Zach that were the problem.
- [153:15]
A
Yeah, that was bonkers. I mean, I just, like, I was so surprised by it. But then. So. Yeah. So Zach goes home. I knew if I didn't win ho h that night that it was would be Rachel going home. And it was kind of, like, crazy how it was me and Morgan in the final two. Right. That was insane. And I knew, so I ended up winning that, which. Thank God. But I knew as soon as I got back in and I said I was hoh. Riley and Catherine were not happy. Mickey and Morgan were not happy. Like, I don't think that. I feel like it felt like nobody with. Maybe nobody was happy that I won. I don't know.
- [154:01]
B
I'd be willing to bet that, like, because of all the work Mickey did the week, the night, basically the night before.
- [154:09]
A
Yeah.
- [154:11]
B
Even if they were. Even if somebody like Ashley was happy, like, you know, she had that whole conversation with Mickey. You have to distance yourself from Rachel. They were probably, like, instinctually like, oh, I. We shouldn't then eventually realize, wait, she's hoh Right.
- [154:25]
A
Exactly. Yeah. We don't have to, like, hide this anymore. Yeah. And. And that was the week, too, that Ashley and I also. I think, like, that was when Mickey was like, oh, you spent more time with Rachel during her hoh than you spent with me. And then it was, like, very obvious at that point to Mickey that Ashley and I were so close, and Mickey did not like that at all. She was just, like, not happy about it. I mean, it was weird. A lot of people were not happy about me and Ashley's relationship. And just in general, like, yeah, well, you could.
- [154:58]
B
I think it's twofold. One, she helped give you more power by having an extra number, and you gave her extra credibility in the house when she was supposed to be an outcast. It's supposed to be an easy nom and you were sticking up for her and, like, helping prevent her from being in that position. And so it was probably a frustrating relationship for a lot of people who wanted to use the both of them of you separately.
- [155:20]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. And it was also like, I. With my allies, I, like, I won't let people talk about them in front of me, and I won't even consider them for anything. And if someone is like, we should do this. I'm like, no, like, that is not. That's the dumbest thing ever. So I think maybe that also was a. Had a lot. Has a lot to do with how people behave with my allies. And then I still, like, I think people were like, whenever they would. Even after Jimmy left, when they would talk about Jimmy, I was like, don't talk about Jimmy.
- [155:50]
B
I think. I think that, like, I think that it's the combination of that plus the fact that Ashley was supposed to be an outcast. Like, if you were saying that about Morgan, nobody would care. But. But because you were saying about Ashley, it's like you were. You were giving that layer of protection that was like, why? Why are you doing this?
- [156:11]
A
Yeah.
- [156:11]
B
Forcing me to go through you to get to her. And that's annoying.
- [156:14]
A
Yeah, that makes sense.
- [156:16]
B
Yeah.
- [156:17]
A
I heard that so many times from people. Yeah. I mean, and that was brilliant for Ashley because I heard that so many times from so many people where they would say, if you're going to put up Ashley, you might as well put up Rachel. And I was like, that's crazy that people would say that. Right. Because then it's like, now that puts us in a category where you're not. That's two full people that you're not even considering for what. I don't even know what. But we. At the time, at most of the game, neither one of us were, like, that much of a threat where we were not winning comps. So it wasn't like. And. But to them, it was like we were both on to everyone in the house. We were both untouchable because we were together. So it worked. I think it did work also to both of our. Like, it was good for both of us, but it was also probably not good for both.
- [157:10]
B
I mean, I think. I think it worked out pretty well. You know, obviously, hamster wheel is the hamster wheel. But, like.
- [157:15]
A
Right, true.
- [157:15]
B
It helped get you into a position where, you know, you both had made it pretty deep and. Yeah, yeah, I think it.
- [157:25]
A
Without being touched. Yeah, yeah, 100%. I think it would have worked if the hamster wheel didn't happen.
- [157:32]
B
You do lie about your vote.
- [157:34]
A
Yes, I did. I did lie about my vote. So. Okay, I lied about my vote before the. Before the hoh comp. So I was scared. Scared to go back on that lie, especially because Keanu was so adamant about this lie about how it was his doing and his. Like, he was the one that convinced me to vote for Vince to stay. And I was just like, yeah, yes, that's right. Of course. That's right.
- [158:02]
B
He really felt like he had.
- [158:05]
A
Yeah. Gotten through to me. Yes, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I was just like, huh. Yep. Huh. And I don't know if that helped a little bit with the judges because I don't know if Vince believed it. That was the thing.
- [158:20]
B
Yeah. I mean, the thing is that you became hoh. So, like.
- [158:24]
A
Yes. It didn't matter.
- [158:26]
B
Yeah. Nobody's gonna question you because that's stupid.
- [158:29]
A
Right? 100%. 100%. And then I was able to get Vince nominated, which was great.
- [158:39]
B
So you have a dilemma in front of you. You have a whole host of targets. Morgan are massive problems. Riley and Catherine are a massive problem. Vince is a problem, and you can't shoot them all. So this is a tricky spot. Ashley very quickly wants you to do Riley. Um, which obviously you end up doing, and it's very effective. But the problem is you can't just blindly shoot at Riley and leave Mickey and Morgan untouched because they are still coming for you. So even if you did do that, you'd have to do something to. To win them back over. And I will tell you, at this point, there wasn't a shot in hell. You were winning Mickey.
- [159:25]
A
Literally not a shot in hell. And also, by the way, like, I couldn't just put Riley and Catherine on the block next to each other, which was what Ashley's suggestion was. And. And I was like, there's no way. If I put them on the block next to each other and then who's my third person? So then it's just like, Morgan suggestion. Yeah, right. And if it was Morgan. But whatever it was, it's like, it doesn't matter because Riley wins the veto and. Or whoever wins the veto, like, they're coming off the block. They're doing this. And it was just like, it didn't make sense for me to target because I had so many targets I could go after that week. It didn't make sense for me to go directly for. For that showmance immediately.
- [160:09]
B
And it obviously made sense for her, but certainly not.
- [160:13]
A
Yeah, right. Exactly. 100%. It made sense for her. Plus, I didn't even know who would vote out Riley at that time because everybody was, like, obsessed with Riley. They, like, loved him so much. It was so. It was so hard to see the whole house just falling for this guy over and over again. And to be like, there's nothing you could do because it was. He was almost untouchable kind of thing too. Right. Like, it was like Riley and Riley went up During Mickey's hoh. But. And he.
- [160:46]
B
Well, it's again, like Mickey once, after. After Mickey put him up, she was then like, no, actually, him and Catherine are untouchable. And so now, similar to the Ashley thing, it's like, yeah, because you were granted that safety by somebody else. You now have so much more leeway. And the problem was that he wasn't actually loyal to Mickey, and he had people like Kelly devoted to him. He had people like Ava devoted to.
- [161:07]
A
Oh, my God, I know.
- [161:08]
B
Keanu devoted to him.
- [161:10]
A
Catherine, I literally went through. When I finally put Riley up, I went through the cherries. I don't know if they. I actually haven't seen any clips of this, so I don't think it ever made a live feed. But I took Ava into my HOH room with. I had. I took the cherries out and I said, look, this is it. We have a showmance. So Riley has Katherine. Then we have a bromance in Keanu, and he's obsessed with Riley. Then we have this, like, girl, Kelly, who, like, is so devoted to. To Riley. And I was like, so now you're giving them this giant power. And if we keep them in this game that they are, He's. Riley is going to have so much going for him that I was like, this is. It's just too much power. And then. Oh, and then Lauren was my other one. I was like, and then Lauren, who's going to do whatever Catherine says, because Lauren is, like, right there with them. And so I think that finally was one of the things. Things that swayed Ava also. Ava wanted to make sure we had the votes, and I think that was also. But look, if. If it was Mickey, Mickey would have gone, Riley would have stayed. So everything literally worked out how it's supposed to, but it was very risky. So. So, yeah, so I do the initial target at Mickey and Morgan and Vince, because I think in my head, Mickey is. At this point, there's no. I can't come back with that relationship. Mickey's done. Morgan. I thought she was like. Like, also done. I thought there was a chance, but Morgan had overtly said that she was not interested in, like, working with me and she was coming for me. Plus, I had that long conversation with Mickey and I was, like, very torn because Mickey really made some good points and arguments to me before the nominations where I almost considered not putting her up.
- [163:01]
B
Yeah, we were all wondering how genuine you were being in that conversation.
- [163:04]
A
Yeah, it was very. It was very hard because, like, as a human, on a human level, I really, really liked her, but on a game level, I felt that there was no way that she was ever going to work with me after whatever I had done that offended her so much. And I felt that Mickey wasn't giving me what I needed to hear. And she. The other thing was that she was so easily turned on. Just. And I just never felt like I could trust her ever again because she was so willing to just act an ally like that, that if she was going to do that to him, she would 100% do that to me whenever she needed to.
- [163:43]
B
What I said on the update was that my read on it was that you were being genuine, that it did seem like you were starting to, like, engage in the conversation. And then she brought up Jimmy.
- [163:57]
A
Yeah.
- [163:57]
B
And you. You. You're bought. You leaned back and you were like, but that was a mistake. And she could have been like, you know what, Rachel? You're right. I screwed up with Jimmy. And I felt like if she had done that and engaged with you there, she might not have touched the block. But once she started defending the Jimmy move.
- [164:14]
A
Yeah.
- [164:15]
B
It was like, okay, yeah, see, this is why I can't work with you.
- [164:18]
A
Yeah, 100%. And I think because. And that Jimmy move is such a bad move. I mean, we've already talked about that. But, yeah, it was just like, when I. When I heard her trying to defend it, I was just like, okay, this is never going to work out, so we're done here. This is like, there's no point. There's no point to continue. In the conversation with Morgan, Morgan flat out told me she was coming for me. She was going to nominate me. Vince. I mean, for better or worse, Vince basically told me to put him up as a pawn because he knew I was going to.
- [164:51]
B
To.
- [164:51]
A
And I was like, okay, well, that's making my decision. Like, yes, I was gonna put you up anyways. Vince, you lied to me every single day. And I always said, like, Vince was lying or crying. Like, he just was, like, lying to me all the time. And he had also. He's either crying to me or lying to me. Yeah, exactly. Literally. And he had also just, like, almost. He, like, lost his mind, crashed out about this. Like, and I think this was either the night before or something about the jury thing where he was like, yes, because who wouldn't want to send you to jury. You're like, Dr. Will. And I was like, okay. And I said to him, nobody's ever compared me to Dr. Will, so thank you. But I was like, yeah, exactly. And so Yeah, I will put you up. As a matter of fact, Vince. So that was. That made my decision easy. Mickey was the hardest one that week. I knew it was Morgan. I knew it was Vince. Mickey was the hardest one. It was between Mickey and Kelly because Kelly had just kind of broken my trust. I ultimately thought the relationship with Kelly, even though it wasn't salvageable, would have been something that I could have. What it was not like, oh, I had this big relationship with her before she turned on my album. Lie. She did that. It was just with Mickey was too much. So that happened. And then also before my nomination ceremony, they were also trying to convince me. I think it was Mickey or Morgan, one of them. They were trying to convince me to put Keanu. And at that point, I was just like, no, that's not even an option. So, like, what are you doing here? You know what I mean? So I think that also made me just, like, solidified it even more. And I think Vince had said that to me too. I think think Vince was like, well, you could just put up Keanu. And I was like, again, like, okay, that makes it even easier for me to put you up, Vince.
- [166:50]
B
Yeah. So they go up. They have conversations with you after the fact as well. It does seem like you have a good. A decent conversation with Morgan. Yes, of course. Throughout the week, Ashley in particular. Ashley and Will have a whole conversation with Morgan where they dump a bunch of Mickey info on her to turn her against Mickey.
- [167:10]
A
Yeah.
- [167:11]
B
Because they really want you to be working with Morgan. But. But it seems like it started right away.
- [167:17]
A
It did, because. Did they show? And I don't know if this was on feeds because I haven't seen you guys talk about this either. Did they show where? After the nominations, when I nominated Mickey, I had a big one on one bit. Like just a kind of conversation with Will and Ashley where they were like, why did you do that? And I was like, yes. Okay. So you guys did see that you.
- [167:37]
B
Also, of course, have the very last long conversation with Ashley alone. And turns out she's had some toilet paper.
- [167:47]
A
That's right.
- [167:48]
B
I. I watched that live on Twitch. And I. I was like, what is that? Oh, no. And at the time, too, I was like. I was like, like, ashley, why are you mad at Rachel for this? Like, she had to make this move.
- [168:03]
A
Yeah.
- [168:04]
B
And she's also got some toilet paper.
- [168:07]
A
Oh, no. That was so funny. I know. It was so funny. That was the best. Yeah. But I was trying to explain to them why I had to put up Mickey. What Mickey was doing. And I think it did open their eyes to the Mickey of it all.
- [168:20]
B
It took Ashley a second. I think she was, she was annoyed because. And she was using some of, like, Mickey's talking points as like, hey, you know, you shouldn't have done this. You know, it should be essentially Riley, which again, like, you can sort of see why, especially in hindsight. But I think that she hadn't quite seen just how much you needed to put them up at the time.
- [168:44]
A
Yeah, no, I agree.
- [168:46]
B
She did come around to it eventually.
- [168:48]
A
Yeah. And also I don't think she saw the strategy of having them as the initial noms either, because I just, I felt like in my head there was just no like, for my game. There was no other option to where I could not. I couldn't. I could never put Riley and Catherine on the block next to each.
- [169:06]
B
You can't just leave it on a. Like, that's the thing that so many of the players in the house didn't seem to realize is that, like, if two people are coming for you this whole time.
- [169:13]
A
Yeah.
- [169:14]
B
And then you win hoh. When they were campaigning for you to go up the night before. Right. Literally. And then you don't nominate them, what does that tell the rest of the house about you and how you play the game?
- [169:23]
A
Like, 100%. Yeah.
- [169:24]
B
The only way to, to, to come back from that, from a relationship standpoint is like, I need to retaliate a little bit so that we're back on equal footing and now we can have a conversation. But I can't just, just let this go untouched and target showmance that I have, like, haven't done me wrong yet. You know what I mean? Like, I think it made a ton of sense.
- [169:57]
A
But. Yeah, no, it makes no sense. And it's just like, I can't. You can't come back from that and you can't. I can't play big Brother like that. Especially being a player coming in for the third time. I can't play that way. He just doesn't make it just wouldn't work. So going for them was the only option. Then we have the. Lauren. Lauren told me, oh, I'm not going to use the veto. So Lauren wins hoa or sorry, she wins the veto. And Lauren's like, I might use the veto. And I'm just like, oh, my God, this. This drama. And I saw that Ashley told Lauren to use the veto and I had, I had no idea that was. That I was like, what?
- [170:39]
B
Like, it was too. It was like right before and after you had that conversation with her too. Like, it was like, it was real, real shady.
- [170:50]
A
Yeah, that is shady. And I know part of Ashley had talked to me a little bit about the strategy behind wanting to use the veto. So part of me feels like maybe I should have been more aware of her doing that. But she's like, you need to use the veto or someone needs to use the veto so that we can get Mickey off the block so that. Or so that Mickey's not a target so you can put someone else up so we can get someone else out of this house. But what Ashley also failed to realize at the time, I was not considering Riley as a nominee as going up on the block. So if. If it was Kelly, then that's such a waste of what an hoh. But also, Kelly could have won Blockbuster. That would have sent, like, let's say that would have sent Morgan home. It would have sent Mickey home. Like, we didn't know what would have happened. Right. Like, likely Mickey would have still gone home. If she's on the block.
- [171:40]
B
Yeah, Mickey doesn't win. I mean, she wanted the veto used on Mickey, but obviously Lauren wasn't going to do that.
- [171:44]
A
Right.
- [171:45]
B
Once Mickey stays up, if she doesn't win blockbuster, she's gone 100%.
- [171:49]
A
Yes, 100%. And so it was. It's odd that Ashley was. Would have said that to Lauren to use the veto because, like, knowing Lauren would only use it on Vince. But then when Lauren basically told me she was going to use the veto, then I was like, okay, well, then guess what? I'm gonna set the house on fire, like, around and find out. Like, you know, fine. I tried to. I tried to talk to her. I said, let's not use the veto. I don't want you to use the veto. I tried to pull a Lauren talk to Lauren in the. Lauren likes to be talked to. Oh, you know, you won the veto. You're such a strong girl. Like, I don't want you to use the veto, but if you're, you know, it is your veto, so maybe make a decision. But by the way, like, let's not use the veto. And then it was like, she's like, no, I'm going to use the veto. And I'm like, okay. So the night before and then the whole storage room thing where it was like, I was so mad because I was just like, dude, they are just trying to convince her to use this veto. So no matter what I say, then Lauren goes to them and she's like, so indecisive. She's going to just talk to them about using the veto. And then so that night, I was just, like, telling Ashley. I was like, well, Ashley's like, what are you going to do if Lauren uses the veto? Put up Kelly. And I'm like, no, I'm going to set the house on fire. Like, I'm going to, like, let's see what happens. And then I started to really think of Riley as a possibility as someone that could go up and go home because I. Because at that point, I thought that I would have had enough people that I could get convinced if Vince was down and if Morgan was next to Riley and Mickey was down, that I could convince enough people to vote. But it was risky and very. I don't know if I thought that all the way through because it was kind of scary, but. And Ashley, I think, or someone had told me to put up. Like, had I considered Catherine. I don't remember if it was Ashley who had told me I should. I can be considering Katherine. And I was just like, I didn't think Catherine was the right move there because I didn't think Catherine was the one that was going to be the head of it because Catherine didn't have Keanu. Catherine didn't have Kelly. Catherine. And Catherine had Lauren, but Cat. But Riley had the five of them. And it was just like, Catherine's not the bigger threat here.
- [174:14]
B
Yeah. I mean, she would have been easier to get out, I think. But, like, the shot doesn't land well as. As. Well, like, it's not as effective of a shot. And you came into the week needing to. To hit somebody.
- [174:27]
A
Yeah.
- [174:27]
B
Big. Yeah. And I. I remember on the stock watch that week, I was like, listen, this seems like it's gonna be tough, and if it does go through, then I need to retroactively change my ratings because this is phenomenal.
- [174:49]
A
Yeah.
- [174:49]
B
But right now it really looks hard because it did because. Because I don't think anybody, yourself or Ashley included, knew how, like, how deeply Ava felt for Riley.
- [175:04]
A
Oh, no. Yeah.
- [175:05]
B
Like, that she was so against voting for Riley. And that meant that, like, you didn't have Ava when you started the. When you made the nomination. You didn't have Vince when you started the. When you made the nomination. Nomination. And then through it all, it was like you barely had Mickey in particular.
- [175:24]
A
God, I know. It was so scary. Well, and I saw one of your things that you did where you were like, I didn't talk to my allies enough about this. And yes, I do think that that probably was a mistake, but I Think if I would have talked to my allies more about it, that it would have gotten around to Riley. And that was another thing. I couldn't let Riley know that I was going to be nominating him because there was. It was just too. It was too risky of a move and I knew I had to make a big move. And if Riley knew about the move, then there was just too much that could have happened and could have gone wrong. And I think. I think maybe you had said if I would have talked to Riley about it, he might have talked to Lauren and Lauren wouldn't have used the veto. But then that puts me at riding risk of Riley knowing that I would have considered him and I don't need Riley's heat.
- [176:17]
B
Like, yeah, I don't think you should have told Riley. I think so. Trying to remember probably what I said at the time, because I don't remember exactly. But like, I. I'm assuming that at the time I was assuming that the vote wouldn't go through.
- [176:30]
A
Yeah.
- [176:31]
B
So from my perspective, I think it was like if she had talked to, say, Ava about the possibility and learned that Ava was not willing to vote for Riley to leave, then that might have told her, maybe I shouldn't make this shot. Because, and I mean, again, it's. It's this. It's the sort of thing where it's like, maybe. Maybe I should make the shot or maybe I have a better idea of, like, where my votes could be or what kind of support I have for this move because it really. It really did not look like it was going to happen. And so, I mean, I would. I will very willingly, like, retract all of the criticism because it. It worked. You know what I mean?
- [177:11]
A
I. I put in the work, and I don't even feel like they did a fair showing of how much work I put in to make sure that that vote turned out the way it needs to turn out. But by the way, it did hinge on that blockbuster. So that was risky because if. If the blockbuster was won by Morgan or Riley, I was done. I would have been done, done in the shot, in.
- [177:30]
B
The upside was so high, though, is the thing is like. Like it wasn't going to happen, but like the. You put yourself in a position to get lucky, and that's huge because a lot of players are too scared to even. Even try themselves a chance to get lucky.
- [177:47]
A
I don't know. And nobody this season would have done that move. And by the way, after I did the move, I realized how good of a move it was. Because nobody would have ever taken that shot ever. None of them. And that's terrifying. And then I didn't know how mad Keanu was going to get. Like, that was. Was insane to me. He was so mad. I, like, literally went up to the hoh room afterwards and I was. I had. I knew I made such a risky big move. I drank a full. I think I chugged a full seltzer, whatever it was. Then I was like, all right, everyone, this might be my last week. Let's hop. Because then Will came up, Ashley came up, Morgan came up, and I was like, this might be my last week here, so let's go ahead and have drinks together, basically. And I was like, oh, my gosh. I could not believe that they were supporting it. And then that the people I was trying to work with were so against it. Because that to me. And that also to me was like, did I. That scared me, because I was like, did I make a really, really bad move here? Because my new ally that I was trying to work with was so mad about it.
- [179:06]
B
Yeah, it's. It was. It was such. It was such an old school big brother move. It was like. It really was the kind of move that, like, no player certainly this season would have made. And. And. And even though Keanu is mad at it, he learned from it, you know, like, it. It did teach him things. And he was like, wow. Like, I. I've learned from Rachel, Russell, Riley. And it was just. It was such. The week or two leading into that week, I was starting to say, like, people always ask me, like, who are the front runners? And I was starting to say, like, guys, Riley has a shot.
- [179:48]
A
I know he did.
- [179:50]
B
Tomato.
- [179:51]
A
I know Tomato. But he did. He would have. He would have run away with the game after that week.
- [179:59]
B
I think so.
- [180:00]
A
Because there was no one that would put him up, and there was no way he would have won more comp. There was no way that after the wall comp. After the jury segment, you did not want Riley. I call it jury segment, whatever. After the hamster wheel of death, you do not want Riley in that final eight, final seven, because he is going to take it away. He has so many people. And they had. Their side had the numbers. Their side had the numbers.
- [180:28]
B
And most of the competitors.
- [180:30]
A
I know they had all the competitors.
- [180:32]
B
I mean, Riley, Lauren alone, Vince, like, it would have been all of them against Morgan, basically.
- [180:41]
A
Oh, exactly. So many. And I think that that was like.
- [180:46]
B
I guess Morgan would have left, so.
- [180:48]
A
Morgan probably would have gone, so Morgan wouldn't have been in there at all. It was really risky. It was really sc. Like, I'm telling you, I. It blew my mind when I went up to the HOH room and I had. Because Morgan and Mickey came up, and I think Morgan knew that I was trying to. And Mickey didn't like this move, by the way. She did not. Did not like it.
- [181:07]
B
She loved Riley.
- [181:08]
A
She loved. Yeah, she. She was not happy, but I. Kelly.
- [181:12]
B
Wasn'T happy with the move. She was like, it should have been me.
- [181:15]
A
That was so weird. Why was. Why did she do that? That was the weirdest thing I've ever experienced in a game like this. And she wanted to go on the block over Riley, and she was complaining about it the whole rest of the summer, and it was so weird to me. And then, I mean, I'm telling you, the fight I got in with Keanu, after that, when I went up to the hoh, he, like, pulled me out of the HOH room and was like, come talk to me in the gym. That huge fight that he and I got into over the eviction or over the nomination of Riley, and he was trying to tell me, a Big Brother winner, that there are ways to play this game and there are numbers and orders for that to happen. And I was like, I won the game and Riley was coming for you. Like, why on earth.
- [182:03]
B
I believe that you believe.
- [182:05]
A
Exactly. That's right. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like. And then also, like, that was good for everyone. Like, Riley could have beat anyone except.
- [182:17]
B
For maybe, like, Lauren. I think that Lauren, granted, it was still somewhat beneficial if. If. If Vince hadn't also backed out the next week. She was in a better position.
- [182:28]
A
Yeah.
- [182:29]
B
But. So I don't know if you know this, but, like, Lauren was at the time actually, like, prepping to. To formalize an alliance with Vince, Riley and Catherine.
- [182:40]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I. I was under that impression, for sure.
- [182:43]
B
I. You all. You all assumed it. But like, I. It was. It's kind of surprising, given Lauren's overall trajectory, that she was actually. Yeah, she was. She was doing the thing, you know.
- [182:54]
A
Oh, 100%. And I always kind of assumed that Lauren was also with Riley and Catherine and that Lauren would pull either Zach or Vince, whichever one of them would have stayed with her, because, I mean, it was just. That was also the move for her to make. Right. Like, that was. And for. For Riley and Catherine as well, because Riley and Katherine hadn't been really playing the game. Game up to that point. To the point where they were, like, kind of just had been Focusing on each other. And I think that they needed also someone in there that was actively playing the game.
- [183:32]
B
But I think. I think the three of them would have been very formidable. And I think.
- [183:36]
A
Oh, my God. No, absolutely.
- [183:37]
B
Because Riley wasn't great at the mental comps. So, like, there's a chance Lauren beats him out at the end. Because to the end with like Catherine maybe wins, like, I don't know.
- [183:46]
A
Yeah. No, I agree. I think, I think in general, Riley, if he didn't go home week six, the week that he went home, would not have gone home. He would have possibly won the whole game.
- [183:59]
B
Yeah.
- [184:00]
A
And in a jury, he would have beat anyone in a jury vote. So I think getting rid of him that week was good for everyone, really. So I did them all a favor.
- [184:12]
B
Yeah. But I. On the stock watch in season 21, season 24, I started asking the audience to rate the HOH reigns of each player, starting with Taylor's HOA train in week six of BB24. In all of that time, your HOA train, when you took out Riley, and this was before Riley was even evicted, was the highest rated HOH 24.
- [184:39]
A
Okay.
- [184:40]
B
Once Riley was evicted, it was a 7.6. Once Riley was evicted, it was like a nine point something.
- [184:44]
A
Oh, wait, I saw that. Yeah, I did see that one. Yeah. Thank you.
- [184:50]
B
It's. It genuinely, like it was a season defining moment. It was. It was such a long shot. I told Keanu it was like the. The vent on the Death Star. It was just like exactly the shot that needed to be made at exactly the right time. And I think more. More than anything, like, just fully cemented your legacy on the season. Like just.
- [185:16]
A
Yeah.
- [185:16]
B
You know, we'd all been saying it for so long that Rachel is like the best player in there, the most strategic player in there. And then you won an HOH and proved it to all of us, even as we doubted that it would happen.
- [185:29]
A
Yeah.
- [185:29]
B
You know what I mean?
- [185:30]
A
No, same. I doubted it would happen and then it did. And I worked so hard to make it happen. And I knew that that was probably my game winning move because I knew if I made it to the final two chairs, if I didn't win anything else, I would have had that argument. I knew I would have had to win other competitions. Like, let's be real, like after the Hamster Wheel of death, there would have had to be other things I would have needed to win to stay in the game. So I thought I would be able to do that. But if I thought after this hoh, that Would have been my game winning speech. Part of my speech, obviously not going on the block for, you know, eight weeks was part of my speech. Being able to have these great alliances was part of my speech. But that move, being able to convince them that I was like, that they needed to get Riley out, that was a big, big crazy game move. Like, that was scary. But. And it worked out and so it was great. Yeah, but. Yeah, but I did. I. I remember talking to Ava. I was terrified Ava wasn't going to vote. I was terrified Vince wasn't going to vote with us. We kind of knew Vince would vote with us if Morgan was next to Riley because there's no way he would vote out Morgan. We kind of knew if Vince was going to vote that Ava could switch that vote to keep it. And. But I mean, like, we saw it was a 5 4. Like, that is crazy. And it could have gone 54 in the other direction.
- [187:05]
B
I, I swear I will maintain this.
- [187:07]
A
Yeah.
- [187:08]
B
Ava, to say more like it. I saw it.
- [187:12]
A
It literally looked like that she was going to. And that is insane. And you know how mad she was after she voted out, right?
- [187:20]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [187:20]
A
She, like, cussed at me on the live show. I went and brought her water. I. She was like, freaking out. Like, she did not like that at all. So I think, like, for her, I felt that was a big defining moment in our relationship. And I think that that was. Was what made Ava like. I felt like after that, Ava and I never had the same relationship again, unfortunately, because I know she still cared about me. But I think that that was the biggest point of our relationship where Ava was started to not want to have to continue this, like, relationship with me as much as she had. And I think it was. I didn't know that she cared about. I honestly did not know she cared about Riley that much. But I think, I think after that, I think Ava was really upset with me because of Riley going home and she had to vote Riley out. I think she viewed it as like, I was the reason I. She had to vote Riley out.
- [188:19]
B
Yeah, I know we've spent a lot of time on this week, but I have, I have two more things. One of, we have to talk about the judges, but I also have to. I have to talk to you about the Lauren in your hoh room right before the ceremony because I've, I've done that reenactment many times now because nobody other than you saw it and I've just. I have to, like, everyone has to see it. You know, like the episode doesn't do it justice. It was five full minutes of moisturizer on her face.
- [188:50]
A
Yeah.
- [188:52]
B
And. And her also.
- [188:54]
A
I have moisturize. I have makeup. Yeah.
- [188:56]
B
And then she runs out of the room and. And she's downstairs and she's talking to Vin and Vince is like, she's bluffing. She's bluffing. She won't do it.
- [189:04]
A
I know.
- [189:05]
B
And then. And then she's. She's like, you are a horror monster in a horror movie. She's coming. She's coming running out of the room.
- [189:16]
A
No, but. Oh, my God. Did you see the clip? I think it's on. On X or something. And it's like a clip of me coming down with my. That red gown I was wearing, like, looking like an evil villain Disney princess queen. And the. The trail, the, like train of the Dr. Down the steps. Lauren is like, in her tower with Vince or like, whatever. And she's just like, I've got to go. And it like, slow mos on me walking down the steps. And then it's like Lauren's like, I've got to go. And then it's just like, she's so scared. I'm like, this is the best. Like, sometimes the fan edits are so on. Like, that was on. That was just the best fan edit I would like. It was so good. But then, yeah, I bring her back upstairs and it's just like, okay. I mean, I lit. Yes. Literally.
- [190:07]
B
Right?
- [190:07]
A
I. I don't. I think. I don't know what. I mean, how could she not know that? If I told her I'm. What I'm doing, by the way, what if I didn't do after I told her what I was doing and I didn't do it? Like, what then it would have ruined my, like, status as well. Like, it's like, nominate. It's like not nominating Mickey and Morgan. Like, I had to nominate them, so that would have, like, ru. If I told. If I told Lauren, I'm going to nominate your ally, it's going to be Riley. And then I don't nominate Riley, then that totally blows any type of credibility I have. And it totally, like, of course I'm going to do it. Like, I can't believe she just.
- [190:46]
B
It makes no sense to bluff in that spot in the way that you were talking about it. I think. I think she. I think part of her knew you weren't bluffing. I think think Vince certainly did. And I think part of her also did. She. She initially denies that you said Vince. She does. To Keanu. Which doesn't help your case. But then she does admit it to Catherine and. And Riley.
- [191:11]
A
Yeah.
- [191:12]
B
Who? You know, we're like, oh.
- [191:14]
A
Because after the. After the veto ceremony, I had to talk to them and tell them that y.
- [191:20]
B
Believe you. Everyone was like, what an obvious lie. Lauren doesn't lie in this game, and she's saying she didn't. And then she admits to it, and they're like, oh, it's okay, Laura.
- [191:30]
A
Yeah, literally. Literally. Oh, well, you know, probably because of Rachel. I'm like, are they. Is this real life these days with these newbies? I couldn't. Yeah.
- [191:43]
B
And then, of course, the judges form here as well. This spawns from a conversation with Ashley and Will, who are like, hey, we need to get the votes. We need to. I think we can run to the end with these people. I was. I was surprised to see how spot on Ashley was about, like, I'm telling you, Vince is not powerful. He will do anything Morgan says. If we pull Morgan, we have Vince locked, guaranteed. Because, I mean, even that week, we weren't sure if you would vote to keep Morgan yet, let alone that he would do anything. She said, like, nominate Lauren, right?
- [192:20]
A
100%. Yeah. No, Ashley was. Had really good reads. And by the way, Ashley does not get credit for a lot of the reads that she had for throughout the series season. And people in the house just, like, told her, like, they overlooked her reads. But also, like, I felt like a lot of the fans overlooked her reads because I went back and, like, watched stuff and read comments, and, like, she was really spot on with a lot of the reads. And I think she did a really good job of communicating the reads to the right people. So she would always talk to me about, like, what she thought was going on and always talk to me. Like, she. I think she told me that Riley would go home next to Morgan and that. Yeah. So it was like.
- [192:59]
B
It was this drama dramatic moment. She's like, you know, the only person Riley goes home next. Yeah.
- [193:04]
A
And I was like, Catherine.
- [193:07]
B
She's like, no, Morgan.
- [193:10]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like, that. I mean, obviously, like, that always stays in the back of your mind, right? It's like, okay, well, like, if we're gonna do this, we're gonna set this house on fire. But I don't think. I don't think Ashley knew I was gonna for sure nominate Riley either. I did tell her she knew. Actually. No, she did. She didn't told me she knew when Right before renoms. I went to her. We were in, like, right before the Renam ceremonies, we go in and, like, they make us sit in the room to get our shots or whatever. And I go to her, and I'm like, ashley, I'm freaking out. And she's like, what's going on? I'm like, I'm shaking. I'm freaking out. It's gonna happen. And she's like, what's. What's gonna happen? And then, like, they're like, you guys don't talk. And I was just like. I was like, okay, Ashley, this is gonna. This is it. And then she. She kind of knew at that point, I think.
- [194:00]
B
Yeah. So the judges. So. So you. I think Will talks to you first. She talks to Morgan. Yeah. And then you kind of all come up together, and then, you know, they pull in Will or. Sorry. They pull in Vince. I. This. I was at the zoo that day on my phone looking at some elephants and being like, the judges are for. What is that?
- [194:31]
A
Of course. That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah, we. And I, when Vince was the last person, we pulled in because Morgan was like, we have to grab Vince or whatever. So we're like, all right, well, let's do this. And Ashley and I, we did not trust Vince, so it was not like we did not want Vince in this.
- [194:50]
B
Was so mad at Morgan afterward. He was like, I know. Why should I work with these people?
- [194:54]
A
Well, and we knew. But we knew we needed to have him.
- [194:57]
B
Exactly.
- [194:57]
A
We knew we needed him, and we knew that, like, if we didn't have him in there, it was not going to work. So it was, like, it ended up working out really well, and I was actually surprised how well it worked, even though I knew we had the back and forth with everything. But I think that at the end of the day, like, it ended up being a great alliance.
- [195:19]
B
It's the only alliance that actually.
- [195:21]
A
That was a thing, right? Exactly. The only alliance that was. That mattered. Yeah. Which is, like, crazy, because I just. I remember thinking in my head, like, yeah, like, I put these two people on the block the same week that I'm forming an alliance with. Like, I was so proud of myself because big brother 12 or 13, Rachel would never have done that. Like, I would have been done done. And, like, this Rachel from Big Brother 27 was willing to work with them, form an alliance with them, be loyal to this alliance. So I thought that alone, I was hoping the. The people, the fans would see, like, I had evolved as a player and obviously my whole game throughout the season. But I think just with the judges alliance in general, I was like this is my week as a hoh. Strategically, socially, how I've been playing the game. And then this judges alliance with Vincent Morgan at this point in the game, I thought that that was something that like would have the fans be like, oh, she is really playing a great, like the big brother community, whatever, you know what I mean? I said I hope that everyone saw how I played the game this season and how different it was from 13, how much I've evolved as a player. And I thought that that was a big thing that showed how much I had evolved as a player.
- [196:42]
B
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I remember you. I think it was. Oh man. I actually think it was the, the. It might have been the Keanu week. Right before the hamster wheel that you were, you know, you had that spot up in the, the boxing gym and you hid the.
- [196:59]
A
Oh my, my, yes, your calendar.
- [197:04]
B
And you, you were up there like talking to the cameras. Like I hope you guys, you know, I hope I have people that are like rooting for me. I hope you guys doing a good job. And everyone was like, we love you, Rachel. Yay. It really is, it really is cool. And I talked about at the top of this podcast, but like it, it was so cool. It was so cool to see the evolution of you as a player. You know, really just like adding tools to the toolbox as you needed them and, and pulling it out. So great stuff, great stuff. And, and honestly, like obviously the right Riley move is phenomenal, but then you have another week back to back.
- [197:50]
A
Yeah.
- [197:50]
B
It's like, thank God. How did she pull this one off? Because that was crazy too.
- [197:57]
A
God. I know. So we're back at Riley's eviction.
- [198:01]
B
Vince wins the HOH yes on the wall. And this is his. He's again blindsided everyone by voting out Riley.
- [198:12]
A
Right.
- [198:13]
B
He comes up with the excuse that he was casting a sympathy.
- [198:17]
A
A sympathy vote. That is the craziest thing I've ever heard. Yeah. And also like the. I think the house guests, if this was not an all new cast, if they had heard that they would have said you don't cast a sympathy vote against your ally. 1, 2. If you are casting a sympathy vote, you never do it. If you think the vote could be that close.
- [198:40]
B
To be fair, I don't think anybody believed him. Point. Yeah, like he had the conversation with Catherine and with Kelly and then afterward they both talked and they were. And Catherine was saying to Kelly like we have to believe him.
- [198:55]
A
Right?
- [198:55]
B
He's hoh right? Like, yeah, but, but yes, he. His initial target of course is Mickey, which. Which does make some sense. Right. It's. It helps eliminate a target on. On your side of the house without necessarily having to betray, betray, and cause waves, which he could be doing if he wanted to, but he's not. And trying to reconcile with. With Catherine and Kelly and. And Keanu as much as possible. I really feel like you were his best target. Yeah. If he takes you out of the game, it eliminates so much. He still keeps Morgan. Right. Despite. I don't think Morgan turned. Morgan would not be happy, but I.
- [199:37]
A
Don'T think she would turn against him. No. Yeah, I think I said that actually. Like, he should have nominated me. Like, I think that was the week I said it. I thought that a lot of times, but then, like, this week I was really like, wow, okay.
- [199:50]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And then this is also where Keanu randomly, like, flips a switch and is like, yeah, Rachel needs to go.
- [200:00]
A
I know. It was so weird.
- [200:02]
B
And I say randomly because, like, obviously you just put up Riley. And he was very upset about that, and that was a huge part of it. But it. It, like, the way it was presented to us at the very least felt so random because it was like after conversation where they're like, well, Rachel's gonna win in a final two. And I was like, that has to be nonsense because he's already talked about bringing Rachel to the final two and potentially losing against her. Like, that's not new information to him. But. And. And from what I gathered from him, it was more. So the Riley thing building up, and then he does have, like, a moment where he thought about it. But, like, you know, it's still. Even with the Riley stuff, even with the final two stuff, didn't make sense for you to leave on. On this HOH ramp.
- [200:41]
A
Also, it never made sense because I had just made sure that he knew that I was, like, trying to keep him in the game. Like, I told him the reason I got rid of Riley was so that it. We had a stronger chance of going further in the game. So it wasn't like when his mind.
- [200:59]
B
He was in a brigade and you were his plus one and Catherine was Riley's plus one and screwed up his whole plan.
- [201:06]
A
Yeah. Yeah, apparently. Which is fine. But, like, even in that, if the brigade. If that had happened in the brigade, I think that they would have switched it up to bring Britney to the final four. Right. Like, it would. They would have switched up. So, like, I don't understand the thought process, but, you know, it is what it is, I guess.
- [201:30]
B
Yeah. So he Gets mad at Vince. He tells him, competence. It will get you confidence. This is when Ashley talks to the cameras and says, I studied Elle Woods.
- [201:45]
A
She's so cute. It's so funny. You know, though, when she gave that speech and said. And told us that. Because I. I didn't know that she was a attorney until. Until like, I was going home that week. I knew. And then. But when she gave that final two speech, I was like, that makes sense that she was.
- [202:05]
B
She told you in her goodbye message to you, right?
- [202:07]
A
No, she told. She told me me when I. We were still in the house.
- [202:10]
B
Okay.
- [202:11]
A
So it must have been. She told a bunch of people in their goodbye messages, but she must have told me, like, I think it was the night of the hamster wheel of death, because I think she thought that it was either me going home or she was going to go home. And I think she might have just told me that. I can't remember what. Because that night, like, honest to God, that night really blurs together for me because of how much it was so crazy. But she told. She told me in person. And some point of that. And I was like, I should have known, but.
- [202:43]
B
Because she. I'm sure you've heard about this now, but like, she also told Will before he left. Yes, Rachel. To keep it a secret. Don't.
- [202:52]
A
She did that.
- [202:53]
B
I'm an attorney. So that I can reveal it in my speech. As a big reveal.
- [202:57]
A
As a big reveal.
- [202:58]
B
And then. So we thought that was going to happen. And then we get the jury segment and the first thing Will does when Ava walks in. Yeah, she was an attorney. Right, Right.
- [203:08]
A
Yeah, but no, but in Will. So what you guys didn't see was that Will and I had talked about how we thought that that would change people's opinion on her so that that would be a stronger argument for her to win. Because I also. Will and I there. There was a point where Will and I were like, oh, my God, Ashley could win this. And we were like, like, how do we help to have Ashley win? So we wanted Ashley, obviously, we wanted Ashley to win. We loved Ashley. But we were like. Like we were trying to think of all the things that she had done strategically. We were thinking of all the things that she had done to prove, like, to, you know, give her game more credibility. Because everyone was so, like, they were so just, you know, on one. One winner, like, they. They didn't. They had, like, blind. But I knew that I had talked to enough of the jury coming in that the consensus was they were very mad At Vince. And if it was Vince versus Ashley, I thought we like, there was a very strong chance that Ashley could win. Even if Vince would have brought Ashley to the final two, there was a very strong chance she could have won. And so we both were like, okay, we need to make sure that they understand. She's an attorney. They understand all of the strategy that she had had throughout season that people really see. And what they. I was really upset. In the jury house segment or the jury roundtable segment, they did not show us talking about how Ashley we said specifically that exact example. We said if Ashley gets rid of Morgan final three, like we can't pretend that might not happen. And if I said if that happens, then Ashley made the biggest move of the season. And I'm so disappointed that that wasn't shown in the jury house in the.
- [205:02]
B
Jury roundtable because I thought were useless. They caught so much from them.
- [205:08]
A
So much. But that was in the roundtable that we said that in the roundtable.
- [205:12]
B
That was even worse. The roundtable is like a two minute segment. We got this.
- [205:16]
A
So weird. I know. I don't. Because usually roundtable gets a full five minute package. Five to six minute package.
- [205:22]
B
I might be exaggerating. It felt like.
- [205:25]
A
Well, it was really. No, I know. I watched it. It was really short.
- [205:28]
B
Yeah.
- [205:28]
A
It was not. And they. And it really made it seem like we were like wanted Vince to win. And that was very confusing because I don't think that was the sentiment at all. And I understand that they always want to show. Oh, it could be Morgan or it could be Vince or you know, always final two or our jury roundtable, they always want to give arguments for everyone. But I thought that I really wish they would have shown the Ashley because it was like Ashley really at that point. Like there was a lot of arguments for why Ashley could win at that point too.
- [206:00]
B
And the thing too is that like they. I don't even think it was balanced. I feel like they. The segments made it seem like it was mostly province.
- [206:09]
A
Right.
- [206:09]
B
Knowing that the jury wasn't province. I don't know why you do that. And then it's like you don't even have to be like a live feeder or like an eagle eyed viewer to immediately recognize the second they start doing their speeches. Oh, Vince isn't winning.
- [206:23]
A
Yeah. Oh, I know.
- [206:25]
B
Lingers.
- [206:26]
A
Right.
- [206:26]
B
No, left is of confused audience as to why they're so mad. Evans. Because they never got a chance to explain it in the second where they talked about it.
- [206:35]
A
Right. I agree. And we. And at the jury House, which I think the Jury House episodes were mostly shown on Unlocked. But at the Jury House episodes, when we had the chance to talk about it, we had. We had always discussed each person coming in as well, why they were upset with Vince. So I think that that was also when Will and I started to realize that Ashley could actually win because everyone was so mad at Vince. And then because of that, they were really discrediting Morgan's game a lot. So that was also something that people were. The narrative was, well, Morgan. Is it Morgan making the moves or is it Vince making the moves?
- [207:14]
B
So we saw some of that. We figured even if that was the sentiment, as soon as Vince nominates Lauren, then it's probably like, okay, now people know.
- [207:24]
A
Oh, 100%.
- [207:26]
B
Right?
- [207:26]
A
Yeah, of course, of course. But, I mean, Lauren still was. You know, she's not happy about that. That. So. Yeah.
- [207:34]
B
All right, well, I. We've already. Now.
- [207:37]
A
Yeah, I know. Right? Exactly.
- [207:40]
B
Jumped ahead a little bit, but that's fine. Vince's h. I mean, really, you know, it's really just a story of why he should have nominated you and why he does. Of course, Winegate happens here.
- [207:52]
A
Winegate happens. Yeah.
- [207:54]
B
Which is.
- [207:55]
A
I will say, wine gate. Yeah. Kelly was, you know, for no reason again, starting her little issue is like, what? Instigating. So she's instigating. Oh, man. Why do I instigate so much? Why did she. So then I found out about the instigation, and then I was sitting on the hammock with Morgan, and I was already there with her, and then they called me to go change out my mic or something. So they were like, please exchange your microphone. So I got up, then I went back, and Kelly was walking up, and I was like, oh, sorry. Like, I didn't want to talk to. Frankly, didn't want to talk to Kelly at all because I was already so frustrated. I didn't want to fight with her. I wasn't trying to make an. Listen, I could not fight in that house without having it be a big, blown up, dramatic situation. So I didn't want to fight with her. So I was like, sorry, there's no room for you out here. And apparently that was enough of a fight. And then the hug gate was enough of not, you know, I didn't want to hug her. And that was enough for them to also be upset.
- [209:02]
B
Yeah, it was very funny because she, like, went upstairs to wait for Vinnie to, like, cry to Vinnie, but then Keanu showed up instead, and so she. Instead.
- [209:12]
A
I know.
- [209:14]
B
It was. It was, of course, which also didn't.
- [209:18]
A
Help my situation because then I became the bad guy even more.
- [209:23]
B
Actually, actually thinking this. This situation actually helped you.
- [209:26]
A
Oh, really? Okay.
- [209:27]
B
Yeah, yeah. Because Ashley and Morgan fully took your side in it, and we're using it as, like, like, oh, look like they're trying to, like, use this as a way to get Rachel on the block. Don't let it change your mind, Vince. And like, you know, hey, she's still a big target for other people, clearly. And so.
- [209:50]
A
Oh, good. Well, then I'm glad it happened.
- [209:52]
B
Yeah, I genuinely. I think it. It kind of happens.
- [209:55]
A
Helped.
- [209:56]
B
And so, you know, the. The big thing that then detracts from that is the Keanu situation. Yeah. Because of course, Keanu is trying to get you on the block. Vince tells you about it, you confront.
- [210:12]
A
Yes.
- [210:12]
B
Keanu about it. And this is when we're like, Rachel.
- [210:14]
A
No, I know, I know. You know, I think I thought at the time that he was still like, wanted to work with me. Right. But, like, the problem is because I don't know. You don't know anyone in the big Brother. Right. So, like, you don't know the people. You don't know what their intentions are. And just in general, like, the house flip flop so much this season especially, that I think that I was playing with the idea that, okay, well, this person I can talk to. I have a open, like, line of communication with them. Clearly, if I talk to them, they will not go and try to, you know, double down on a conversation. But we all know that how that worked out.
- [211:07]
B
Yeah, yeah. You're like, do not tell him about this. And of course, he immediately runs it back at that point, like, at least the way it seemed to us, like, Vince locked in. He was like, okay, I know that.
- [211:23]
A
Was terrifying because when Ashley told me about that, I was freaking out. Did they. I think they showed. I think you talked to Ashley about this too. How Ashley was the one that told me about not.
- [211:34]
B
Yeah, she was like, I told you not to. Yeah, Keanu.
- [211:37]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [211:38]
B
I told you this girl.
- [211:39]
A
Yes. And she did. And she was right. And. Yeah. And then I, you know, I knew I had to try to figure out how to, like, make things right with Vince. So this was also when I knew the next morning before Vince's nominate renoms, that I had to like, look, Morgan and Ashley, thank God that they were up there convincing Vince. But, like, I knew if I had. If I knew if I spoke to Vince and I just convinced him and filibustered all the time he had in the morning That I would be able to at least be the last voice he heard saying, stick with the alliance. I've got you. This is 100% gonna go. Don't you worry. I thought that, okay, at least he knows that I am going to be here to be a strong ally for him. But, yeah, I think that, like, I do. I think that might have helped. But I think if Ashley and Morgan weren't there, talk like that, it would have never gone through, you know?
- [212:42]
B
Yeah. I mean, you know, like. Like most of things that happen to be brother in general, but also in this house, it was like, you know, it contributed because it was still. It was close. He woke up that morning and it felt like he had changed his mind again, that he was gonna go for you again. Will talks to him, and that seemed to make a big difference. And then you talked to him and helped, you know, filibuster the situation.
- [213:08]
A
Thank you.
- [213:08]
B
I don't know if people have told you this was a very. This was a such a cliffhanger because.
- [213:12]
A
Oh, God.
- [213:13]
B
You were talking to Vince and. Oh, God. I don't even. I think it was you. One of the two of you said, this is the most important thing I'm gonna say in this entire season. And then the feed's cut for the second ceremony.
- [213:27]
A
Oh, my God, stop. Then you guys dirty.
- [213:32]
B
I don't remember who said it now at this point.
- [213:33]
A
Oh, no, I don't. I don't even know because. Okay, so then I guess you guys didn't even see the fact that Kiana was literally in the door.
- [213:40]
B
No, we. We saw that in the episode.
- [213:41]
A
Yeah, okay, we saw.
- [213:44]
B
I would say we saw a good portion of it in the episode from what it seemed like.
- [213:47]
A
Okay, so I. Whenever. I don't remember what the. What the most important thing of the season was. I think maybe it was just working together. Together and making sure that we. Yeah, I think it was just making sure that we kept the judges alliance together. But I would have talked to him for three hours, like, I was not going to leave the room. Kiana was like, I need to talk to you. Come on. Blah, blah. And I was like, no, I'm not leaving, like, if I do not sit here with Vince. And I knew that at that point, there was no way I could let someone else be convincing Vince that I was the right decision. So I was going to talk to him forever. But then, yeah, then I was. I was terrified because the veto ceremony was about to start, and I. And Keanu was still up there, and I was like, oh, My God, Kiana is going to talk to him, talk out all the work I just did, but thank God he didn't do that. That was terrifying, though. That was especially Vince, because Vince is such a wild card.
- [214:43]
B
Yep. So he puts up Catherine, Lauren cries to him on her birthday about it, and he says, should have evicted Ashley over Adrian.
- [214:59]
A
Funny.
- [215:02]
B
And this is when. This is when Keanu starts saying, morgan's running your hoh, bro. Again. You can't build confidence without competence. And. And then there's. There's a little bit of, like, Morgan actually spends a bit of time trying to get Catherine evicted over Kelly, but none of it matters because Kelly ends up winning the. The blockbuster. She would have been evicted anyway. And, uh, you know, the. The relationship between Morgan and Vince really starts. Starts to, like, you know, really starts to heat up at this point in terms of, like, the connection.
- [215:45]
A
And I think that's when it became super obvious to all of us, too. Well, I will say, actually, when they. When Morgan pulled him in for doing the judges, I was like, okay, this. But then I think the. Their relationship was even more like ride or die. We noticed it, like, after that because it was like. Like when you're saying after the nomination and Morgan, it was like, oh, they are like, they are going to be each other's ride or die. Like, that is it like, you can't. You're not going to be able to split them up. So. But I think it's weird because then wasn't he going to pick. Wasn't he trying to get Morgan to use the veto or something like that. Crazy something. Yeah. That's great. So this next week, we'll go into that now, but, like, that's insane.
- [216:35]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, on one hand, you know, I get it. Right. You're trying to save yourself. We'll talk. Yeah. Keanu wins the hoh.
- [216:44]
A
Yeah.
- [216:45]
B
He has. He again has had another epiphany. This epiphany is I don't want to target Rachel after all. I want to make amends to Rachel. I feel like I've not been playing the game in the way that I wanted to, and. And so he decides instead he wants to work with you. Yeah. And part of that is not putting you on the block. Part of that is not putting Ashley on the block initially.
- [217:08]
A
Well, he had, like, pulled me before the HOH and told me that he basically was like, before. Even before the hoh, he was like, hey, I'm going to go out here. I'm going to win hoh and I am not going to target you. Do you want to work with me? And I was like. Like, I just. Like, I don't. What do you say when someone says that to you in a Big Brother? You have to say yes. So I'm like, sure, yes. But, like, I fully had planned on winning HOH and I fully had planned on nominating him. Like, I was done. Like, done, done. And if, like, I would have won, I would have probably nominated Vince as well, because I thought Vince had lingered way too long on the fact that he wanted me to go. But I also had Lauren in the game. I also had Kelly in the game. So it was like, Lauren, like, yeah.
- [217:59]
B
I mean, like, Lauren, Kelly, Keanu wouldn't have been right.
- [218:02]
A
I think that probably would have been the first initial noms if I would.
- [218:04]
B
Invent as a replacement.
- [218:06]
A
Exactly. Something like that. Yeah. But, yeah, no, I was definitely like. I mean, that. That's the thing, I think, like, you can't. You can't target people that want to work with you, period. Like, if. If there's players that are listening to this and they go on Big Brother, they have to understand that you cannot target your allies. Like, it does not work. And this season, for anything should show that it does not work.
- [218:40]
B
Like, I. I say it all the time. They're like, a lot of players. They'll go into their HOH and they'll be like, what can I do? That won't make anybody mad.
- [218:49]
A
Right.
- [218:50]
B
And the problem is that if you're not making anybody mad, that's probably because they. The person that should be mad is you.
- [218:58]
A
A hundred percent. Exactly.
- [219:00]
B
You're the person that would be upset if somebody else put that person on the block.
- [219:04]
A
100%. Yes.
- [219:05]
B
You think it's some kind of cheat code. You're like, well, nobody's mad if I do this.
- [219:08]
A
Yeah.
- [219:09]
B
Because it's you. You're the one.
- [219:10]
A
Yes. Yeah, exactly. And by the way, if nobody's mad, then you're putting the wrong person on the block, because that means that you're putting up the house target, which means that you're playing bad Big Brother. Right, Right.
- [219:22]
B
And that's. And that's the other. Like. Yeah, because maybe you are not putting up an ally. Maybe you're just putting up a house target, which. Which can work, but only if the house is structured for you.
- [219:33]
A
Exactly.
- [219:34]
B
Right.
- [219:34]
A
Exactly.
- [219:35]
B
There are very few people that benefit from doing the house's bidding, and it's. It's only if the house's bidding is also your bidding. If you are not in that position and most people aren't, then you should not be doing the house. You should be doing something that makes it so the house eventually starts doing your bidding.
- [219:51]
A
Right. 100%. Yeah, I agree. And, yeah, I hope that, like, we see in future seasons of Big Brother that they. Even with this. Three possible fourth. Fourth nominations, that they start to see where it's like, okay, I have my group of my main core, and then I cannot go again with. Can't have the main corps go up, period. Don't turn on them. Don't do all the things that people like to do in this Big Brother season.
- [220:26]
B
Yeah. So things go wrong, of course, when Morgan. Oh, we should. We should at least briefly mention. I'm sure you've seen now the clips, maybe even the reenactment of Keanu telling Vince he's going up on the block.
- [220:42]
A
Oh, yeah, of course.
- [220:43]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [220:45]
A
And Morgan was so, so upset about that. She was like, you need to go up there and, like, make sure Vince is okay. Like, it was like a full thing. It was.
- [220:54]
B
Yeah. And then Vince going around because he's a. Have not too, like, yes, I'm gonna be malnourished. Yeah.
- [221:01]
A
Yeah. That was the.
- [221:03]
B
Bringing him food, his bed.
- [221:06]
A
Yeah. But, like, that was not a smart nomination either. I mean, I don't think it was.
- [221:15]
B
I mean, the thing is, because, like, Keanu and I told him this, like, had some banger lines in the sense that, like, Vince wasn't an ally of Keanu's. Like, Vince was not a valuable ally for really anybody except for Morgan and Morgan's allies. And so if. If Keanu is again, is. Is against Morgan and Morgan is against Keanu, then Vince is not an ally, actual ally, because Morgan's going to get him to nominate Keanu if. If he wins. Right. Like, and in the meantime, Vince is evicting all of Keanu's allies.
- [221:49]
A
Right? Well, that is true. But by the same token, it seemed like Vince didn't put him on the block when he could have. Right?
- [221:59]
B
Yeah. I mean, I. I think that.
- [222:02]
A
Same with me. I didn't put him on the block when I could have.
- [222:06]
B
Right. I think if Morgan had pushed Vince to do Keanu the week before, I think he might have, you know, but. But you're right in the sense that, like, theoretically, Vince is somebody that wouldn't have put Keanu on the block. But it's just one of those things where it's like, it was the same thing with Lauren and using the veto. I was like, I am almost always of the opinion that you should use the veto on your ally, that you should, oh, 100% SA ally. You should not risk them going home. But I was like, I will make a small exception in this case that I don't think Vince is valuable to anybody as an ally and that maybe it would be worth it to not use the veto on him.
- [222:47]
A
I, I and I felt the same way, but. And then also, I think that when Lauren was using the. The veto on Vince, I thought that it was a worse game move for her because she was putting her other allies in danger. So it was like, the fact that she did that got Riley sent home, which in turn got Catherine sent home. So that for Lauren was, like, a really bad move for her, which, again.
- [223:13]
B
To be fair to her, if Vince had. If Vince was not Vince, like, of course you protect your day. One final. Always.
- [223:21]
A
Always. Yeah.
- [223:23]
B
You just don't expect them to then go turn around the next week and evict another one of your allies.
- [223:27]
A
Right. 100. Yeah.
- [223:31]
B
So Morgan wins the veto on Keanu's HOH and he wants to renom Ashley. And this sets into motion the very tricky situation of trying to convince him not to while also not giving him the ammunition that he needs to flip, say, Ava's vote against Ashley when she does go on the block. This was tough because, like, obviously you need to try, but he was basically never going to change his mind. And so it was like, trying, trying, trying.
- [224:03]
A
Yeah.
- [224:04]
B
Then he's. He's just baiting, like, well, who else would go up a Rachel? And you're. You're not gonna say it. You're like, who else? You're like, Ava.
- [224:14]
A
Yeah. Yeah. I actually don't even remember saying it. And maybe there's a clip where I do say it, but, like, did get.
- [224:20]
B
You to say it once. Yeah. And he immediately ran it down. But it was like, at that point, it was like, who cares if you actually say it or not? You. You were clearly campaigning, you know.
- [224:28]
A
Right. 100. And, like, also, it wouldn't have made sense if I didn't try to get Ashley to stay off the block. Right. Like, yeah. Because again, it goes back to the thing about, like, keeping your day one allies, like, safe. So. But I thought it was interesting the amount of. The amount of work that was being put in by him to consistently throughout the season have people turn against me, because that, to me, was mind blowing. And even in this scenario with the Ava thing, it was not all your allies. It was the words were Rachel. So I was like, after you had just said again that you. You want to work with someone, then you are again trying to turn other people against that person. So why not just take the shot yourself?
- [225:28]
B
He. He woke up that morning, you've probably been told about this or seen this that he wants.
- [225:33]
A
Wanted to.
- [225:34]
B
He pitched it to Morgan. He said, would you be down? And she was like, no. And then he was like, okay, I might not be able to do it. Then he talks to Vinnie and Lauren about it, and Lauren was like, yes, you should.
- [225:46]
A
Yeah.
- [225:47]
B
And so he was like, okay, let me try Ava. Pitched it to Ava. And she said, now, fine. But of course, he then also, of course, has this plot with Vince to convince Morgan to use the veto on Vince. Yeah, just wild stuff.
- [226:12]
A
What was even the point of that if they already knew that Morgan was going to come down and he were going to put Ashley up, why try to convince Morgan to use the veto on Vince and still have the same outcome?
- [226:26]
B
Well, because. Because the. The point was to vote Morgan out.
- [226:29]
A
Okay, I see.
- [226:31]
B
Was to trick Morgan into not using the veto on herself, but Ashley Ashley up anyway and then vote her out.
- [226:37]
A
Yeah. And so assuming Ash. Assuming Morgan would not have one blockbuster.
- [226:42]
B
Right. I mean, another chance at getting Morgan out was the idea. And so that was. That was the hope.
- [226:51]
A
It was Morgan over Mickey at that point.
- [226:55]
B
Yeah. Morgan was very much Keanu's target. He was very upset that Morgan won the veto and really wanted Morgan gone and. And was just hoping to keep her on the block. Hoping. Hoping to. To take her out of the game and. And came up with the. The. I can't trade one for one. I can only trade two for one. And then couldn't even remember what he said to convince her. And it really felt like she. Because we were. We. We weren't sure at first. Because at first she was like, obviously, I'm not gonna do that. But then she talked to Vinnie and then it was like, am I doing this, Minnie? And then she talked to Will, and Will was like, yeah, yeah. You not use the beat on yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that makes sense.
- [227:41]
A
Yeah. No, I was like, yeah. I was like, do not do that.
- [227:46]
B
She talks to you, she talks to Ashley. You both tell her no. Yeah. And then that also kind of spawns this whole attempted alliance that happens, which is very awkward. And.
- [227:59]
A
Oh, the four with me and Vince.
- [228:01]
B
And you, Vince, Morgan, Keanu.
- [228:03]
A
Yeah, yeah, that was. Yeah.
- [228:07]
B
And then. And then Vince spends the rest of the night trying to convince Morgan to use it anyway, even though. Because at that point, Keanu was like, oh, we don't even need to do this now because I just tricked Rachel into saying Ava's name. I just got Ava's vote. I just went and talked to Ava. She's pissed.
- [228:24]
A
Yeah.
- [228:24]
B
She's barely awake. But he was convinced now that he had the votes anyway to. To take out Ashley, So I was like, whatever. Doesn't. We don't even need to get Morgan out now. We get Ashley out with the votes now that we have Ava. And Vince was like, no, no.
- [228:38]
A
Yeah.
- [228:39]
B
We still need to do the plan, so. Interesting stuff. But of course, by this point, Morgan is like, no, I'm not doing this. She's kind of realized, like, he could put up Ashley anyway. He might not even put up Lauren. Like, something could go wrong. Wrong. Like, I'm not gonna do this, Vince. And he's like, okay, if you just don't care about me in the game, that's fine.
- [229:04]
A
I know that. Watching that, I was like, dude, this is crazy.
- [229:11]
B
Oh, boy.
- [229:12]
A
Yeah, I get it. Vince has to try to get. To say, stay. Right. But, like, is there really a world where he thinks Morgan would have done that? Morgan says she would have not ever, never done that. But I'm like, I can. That happened. That's worse than a Marcellus because it's, like, week eight.
- [229:31]
B
Yeah. I. I think. I think that's probably. I. It felt to us watching that there was definitely a period of time where she had crossed the line into. Okay. I'm, at the very least, heavily considering doing this. Yeah. But I think it's probably. Probably fair to say that, like, she probably would have come to the conclusion eventually on her own, like, I shouldn't be doing this, but you and Ashley certainly, I think, were like, don't do that. Which, thank God, accelerated the process at the very least. Yeah.
- [230:05]
A
God, could you imagine?
- [230:10]
B
So none of you.
- [230:12]
A
You could have put your tweet out from drafts in that point, right?
- [230:17]
B
Like, somehow it got worse.
- [230:20]
A
Yeah, exactly. Oh, God.
- [230:26]
B
Ashley puts in a lot of good work here with Ava. You do some good damage control. But. But, man, like, Ashley really got in there with Ava.
- [230:37]
A
Yeah.
- [230:37]
B
Which was very impressive. Managed to secure her vote. We still don't know for sure exactly what Mickey would have done, which is.
- [230:44]
A
Why I. I think Mickey would have voted Ashley out, which is insane. And I was so upset about that because, of course, you know, the narrative was Ashley would not go home no matter what, but I was like, there's always a chance. There's always a chance. Because Big brother. And then after the whole Mickey thing, I was. I think Mickey might have voted Ashley out over. Especially over where she thought just like Vince was. I don't know what she thought. Who knows what she thought?
- [231:13]
B
But, I mean, it would have made no sense for her game whatsoever. Kind of far for the.
- [231:17]
A
That was Mickey's M.O. yeah.
- [231:19]
B
Yeah. So who knows? You know, we. We felt the same way about the Riley eviction that she did end up evicting Riley, so that's kind of why we felt like it's probably going to be in that direction. But then she came out of the house and she was like, no, I think I might have evicted Ashley, so.
- [231:35]
A
Which is crazy. Blows my mind.
- [231:38]
B
You know, she also said stuff about a T core hat, so that's. I don't know.
- [231:42]
A
True. Good point. Good point. Who knows? Like I said, you don't know anyone in that house. Like, you don't really don't know anyone. That's why when people ask me questions now about people outside the house, I'm just like, you know what? Honestly, at the end of the day, I don't really know anyone from that house. Like, I get to know them outside of the house, and I will judge them based on that. But, like, you cannot form a relationship based on just a relationship from the house.
- [232:11]
B
So that, of course, brings us to the White Locust. And just to just briefly, if this was a regular HOH competition, Ava wins and probably targets Keanu and Vinnie. Probably one of them goes that week. We don't know what the comps would have been, but if Keanu wins safety, Vince would also have to win safety in order for it to land on a third person, which at that point, I guess could have been you. It could have been Morgan, maybe.
- [232:49]
A
I think it might not. I don't think it would have been me. I think at that point it might have actually been Morgan, just because I still did. Did have a good relationship with Ava.
- [232:56]
B
I think it would be more likely Morgan, especially if she's targeting Vince in any way.
- [233:00]
A
100%. Yeah. And also, we knew that during Ava's original HOH, she was going to put Morgan up as the Renam. And then during the Riley vote, she almost didn't vote for Morgan. So I think there's a good chance that Morgan is her other person here.
- [233:20]
B
Third.
- [233:21]
A
Her third.
- [233:21]
B
On the line.
- [233:22]
A
On the line. Maybe I'm fourth. I'm not sure.
- [233:24]
B
But, yeah, I think at that point she was probably would. Would have protected Ashley over you. But. But I think you're right. I think she. I mean, who knows? It's a whole week of gameplay, theoretically, right?
- [233:36]
A
100.
- [233:36]
B
Yeah.
- [233:37]
A
But then the hamster wheel of death happens. I. So what happened was this. We find out that we have 10 minutes to strategize. So I grab Ava's hand, because, as you do in Big Brother, you grab your piece people, you pulled them to.
- [233:51]
B
The room, and savagely, it ripped off of her.
- [233:54]
A
Right. Of course. Of course. You know, yes. Oops. I sent her to the hospital. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And it's interesting because, first of all, didn't know that that would upset her. I also thought we had a really, a much better relationship than what we obviously did. So I misjudged the relationship. But it took a minute for the storage room to open. And in that minute, Keanu came, like, bulldozing over and was just, like, got in the way. And I do. I did get in a fight with him right before. So I think that that was also what set Ava over the edge, because she was like, you got in a fight with Keanu, I can't put you in first. I can't do what you want, basically. And it was like, but you don't understand the strategy and the weight of this competition. So just, like, forget that that happened. But there was no convincing her after that. So I think I had to just kind of, like, realize that there was nothing I could do. I tried. I tried it and tried again to go in first, but I knew I'd seen it in Reindeer Games. So I had been with Brittany in June talking about this. We had talked about the hamster wheel. We talked about Reindeer Games. Of course, I had. You know, I'm friends with Danielle Reyes. We talked about, you know, the hamster wheel with Danielle Rey. Like, it's just like, all these things. Like, I knew exactly what needed to happen to stay. And then it just got worse and worse as the competition moved on, because then Ava picked events and Vince picks Lauren. And Lauren. And then it's three and a half minutes, and I'm like, Everyone's like, why didn't you say, no, you don't want to go in? And I thought about it, but Morgan was going to put Kelly in, so if I wouldn't have gone in, she would put Kelly in, and Kelly likely would have put me in at two and a half minutes.
- [235:48]
B
Yeah.
- [235:49]
A
So I don't know if Kelly could have done it. Sure. And that's the thing that everyone says, well, you didn't do it in three and a half minutes. Do you think Kelly could have done in three and a half minutes? I don't know, who knows? But like, it was three and a half minutes better than two and a half minutes. Like, that was my thought process.
- [236:05]
B
And I mean, that was the thing. It was like, this was not like they, like it was coordinated to take you. This was, this was, this was a. You managed to get in, in the line, right? It was a good thing.
- [236:19]
A
It was a good thing. Yeah.
- [236:21]
B
It was supposed to be a good thing.
- [236:22]
A
You got. Yes, I got in the line at three and a half minutes, which was my cutoff in my head. So in my head, I had already made the decision. Three and a half minutes was the last. The last time to go in because Brittany went out at three and a half minutes. So in my head, I said, if it's past three and a half minutes, if it's two and a half, one and a half, I'm not, not going into that hamster wheel. I will, you know, say, absolutely not. Do not put me in. You have to. I would have argued with other people not to go in. So the fact is that, that Morgan had asked me or had said, you know, like, I'll put you in, I'll put you in. And I was like, yes, put me in. So, yeah, I did think that that would be a better strategy than not going in at all because. Or obviously not going in at all would have been great. But then not going in at three and a half minutes, I didn't go in at three and a half minutes. She was going to put Kelly in and Kelly would have put me in at two and a half and it was just going to be a disaster. Or what if Kelly put in Keanu at two and a half, Keanu comes out. Keanu puts me in at one and a half. You know what I mean? Like, even worse. Like, it's just like at that point, I just really didn't trust that I had any, like, any chance of the rest of the people because I. If I would have gone in first, I would have put Morgan in second. Morgan would have put in Vince, Vince would have put in Lauren. So three and a half minutes would have gone to Lauren. Lauren would have. Lauren would have either put in Ashley or Will, or we would have had a deal where it was like, Ashley and Will should go in before Vincent Morgan. So it would have been like, there's a chance that I could have picked Ashley. Ashley would have gone in at five and a half. Will maybe goes in at four and a half and then. Or Will goes in at five and a half. Morgan goes, Ashley goes In at four and a half. Whatever could have happened there. Like, none of the correct things happen.
- [238:21]
B
Yeah, that's what I. At the end of the day, it's just. It's just gambling. It's gambling when you don't even know what the cards are because.
- [238:29]
A
Right.
- [238:29]
B
Like, even you knowing about the competition, having spoken to somebody who did it, you still don't know how long it will take any given person, 100%. And so it's just like you can't even properly game it out in the way that you would like to. And then on top of all of that, you know, in the interview they did recently, they're like, oh, well, Ashley and Will played it. Right. Because they didn't.
- [238:54]
A
I know. They didn't even want to go in.
- [238:55]
B
Except you intentionally incentivized playing by saying that if you don't play, you don't get to compete in the hoh.
- [239:03]
A
That's right. And that was the other thing I was thinking about, too. Right. So it's like, you have to go in because otherwise you can't be hoh. And what happened? Will and Ashley end up on the block because Lauren wins hoh. So the exact. And Morgan, too, by the way. Morgan, Will and Ashley end up on the block. So the exact thing that, like, you didn't want to happen with the hamster wheel happens because of the hamster wheel. So it's like the. The. The things. It's just like the whole thing was. It's like, what do you do? Do you go in and if you can go in at 5 and then they were like, oh, it's a social. They said what it was a. Like, it's a part of a social game, part of a veto comp, part of a blah. They went through, like a whole week in this one hamster wheel thing. But, like, it's not. Because the social part of it is to go into the wheel at six and a half minutes, then you pick your allies to go in, like, each minute, each time it takes off a minute. So this, the social strategy is to put in whoever you want as a target to go home. To go home at two and a half, one and a half minutes. Right. That's the strategy. But when you have an alliance like the judges, that strategy really is. It's a faltering strategy because you have people like Ashley and Will who don't want to go in, which means that they can't win hoh which means that if you don't keep the judges in the. Assuming the judges would have Worked together that week. Right. If you don't have the judges in the chance to be hoh and you have these other people with the chance to be hoh, then the next week, you lose power. So you're losing an ally and you're losing power or you're losing a potential target, which is a good thing. But then with that gamble, you could still lose power, an ally. So it's like you just. It's just a really tough, like, thing. And especially to have 10 minutes in between each round and to have never sprung it on it, like, it's not something that anyone could have prepared for. So to be in a house full of this. I don't know how to say it, but these bad strategic players, like, bottom line, that's what it was. It's tough, you know, but expect the unexpected. And at the end of the day, I understand it's expect the unexpected. We love twists in big brother, and I think that this twist in particular would have been such a great twist if it would have worked out. You know, it could have been so exciting to watch and could have made amazing television. But expect the unexpected. And unfortunately, I just choked. I just really choked. Taryn.
- [241:53]
B
Yeah, that's just how it goes sometimes.
- [241:56]
A
Sometimes that's just how it goes. Look at my legendary status has been elevated to the point where I was never eliminated. I was never up for an eviction nomination. I was never put. I had never had a vote cast against me. So look at that. Like, what an incredible story ending to season 27 for me. Because at the end of the day, nobody can say that, you know, and it's always these twists. We love twists. And big brother and it was. Was so popular in reindeer games.
- [242:28]
B
I mean, truly, though, like. Like, if you're. If you're gonna be known as having been the victim of a thing, you at least have some good company with Daniel reyes.
- [242:43]
A
Yes. And look at this. Happens all the time. Taran. Frankie got taken out in a. As we learned. Right. Eric Stein was the victim of a twist. FR was the victim of the twist. Jesse godres was the victim of a twist. These things happen all the time. And I think, you know, I unfortunately got played by the mastermind this time. But, you know, there is always a chance for me to come back on another season and redeem myself. And I think now we've given the audience an opportunity to see that and to really want that to happen.
- [243:19]
B
Are you going to don the mastermind mask in the future?
- [243:23]
A
If I would be the mastermind for Halloween, that Would be the scariest Halloween costume ever.
- [243:33]
B
All right, well, again, we've basically. Anything else from the jury that you want to talk about?
- [243:39]
A
I don't think so. I mean, it's jury. You know, like we talked about the strategy in the jury, but yeah, I mean, basically just, you know, and again, I want to reiterate that twist happened in this game and that it was unfortunate that it was me. But, you know, I think that expect the unexpected and new players going into Big Brother should always expect the unexpected. And you know.
- [244:06]
B
Yeah. I mean, now everyone knows if they ask chat GPT what should I do to prep for Big Brother Practice Hamster wheel of death.
- [244:20]
A
Practice Hamster wheel of death.
- [244:21]
B
The coup d' hamster wheel.
- [244:23]
A
Yes.
- [244:24]
B
And you know, just.
- [244:28]
A
Yeah. Be prepared. Play those little puzzle games.
- [244:32]
B
Play the little puzzle games. Just like American Ninja Warrior when people started building gyms with the obstacles and you could practice it. Somebody needs to build a big Brother gym that has a hamster wheel that you can practice the maze.
- [244:44]
A
That would be perfect.
- [244:46]
B
I mean, that's. Listen that you don't go on the challenge without working out, without practicing your long distance running.
- [244:53]
A
100%. Right. Exactly. Exactly.
- [244:55]
B
Big bro. Practicing your hamster wheels. It's just, it's pretty basic stuff.
- [244:59]
A
Yeah. And now we know that it's going to be used in future seasons. So I think now it's. It's nice to know that that is something other players can look forward to. So now they maybe know the strategy and you know, put think about it.
- [245:14]
B
Like, right, there's a hamster wheel coming up in the future, so we don't need to make a move now. We can just wait for the hamster wheel.
- [245:20]
A
100%. Yeah. You want a house target out, you've got exactly remember that. So, yeah, there's a lot I think that we could learn from this and unfortunately, I just wasn't able to complete it in three and a half minutes. You know.
- [245:34]
B
Happens.
- [245:35]
A
It happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [245:39]
B
All right. Rachel, What a pleasure. What a pleasure chatting with you. I'm so. I. I know, I know the ending was. Was what it was, but I'm so happy to have been able to watch you on this season and very happy to have chatted with you about it for the last four hours.
- [246:00]
A
Hey, wait. Do I win the challenge of the going at longest in your deep dive this season?
- [246:06]
B
We'll have to see. We'll have to see. We took a couple breaks.
- [246:08]
A
Expect the unexpected.
- [246:10]
B
I don't know how. I don't know how much time will Be cut off. But you were, I think, the first. First person who came in expecting it to go long, so.
- [246:18]
A
Okay, perfect.
- [246:19]
B
A little easier. Yeah. Yes. But any. Anything else that you want to talk about from the season, from postseason or just.
- [246:30]
A
No. You know, I obviously love big Brother. It's given me so much. I. I met my husband on the show. I have two beautiful children because of.
- [246:38]
B
The show, and, oh, my God, you're the family segment.
- [246:41]
A
Yeah. It was so cute, wasn't it?
- [246:43]
B
So adorable.
- [246:43]
A
I know. It was so cute. I know. Adora said. So cute. I know. And I'm always a winner and a legend on the show, so I think I've just taken so much from this experience and learned so much as a person. I hope that the fans see that my game has evolved over the past, you know, 15 years of me playing this game, and I hope that they really root for me and whatever is next and whatever I do in the future. Future that they know that, like, I'm doing my best and I keep continuing to learn and evolve as a human and as a player.
- [247:18]
B
Well, listen, Rachel, famously on Big Brother, you said, I am Vegas.
- [247:24]
A
I'm big brother now.
- [247:26]
B
I think you are truly big Brother. So, so happy to. To chatted with you, of course. Where. Where can people find you? You. What are you up to all that?
- [247:39]
A
Yes, I am. I on Instagram at Rachel E. Riley Viegas on We can go on TikTok. Rachel Riley Viegas. Yeah, Follow me on tick Tock because I'm trying to, like, build that thing up. I don't know. People like Tick Tock these days. And then I'm on chat bcc and I'm excited you were on all season. Yes, I was as, you know, as famously as everyone knows. I told Brennan so funny. He was like, oh, yeah, I guess I should use more cap locks. I'm like, I literally always type in cap locks. Like, I don't understand how you who gets my text messages ten times a day does not remember that. I literally, when I text Brendan, it's always all cap locks and misspelled words, which apparently his spelling was impeccable. So I was like, listen, next time, just put in there that I'm in Greece and everyone will know what that means.
- [248:36]
B
Yeah. All right. Well, you can, of course, find me on YouTube, Twitch and Patreon. I, of course, do have a book behind the mirror.
- [248:47]
A
Yes. I can't wait to read it.
- [248:48]
B
Yes. Very excited for you to be Very excited for everyone to read it. It's coming out in just about a month now it's being. Yay. Very excited. And I. I did. I was like, man, it's this season. Really? Could have been. Could have been a chapter at this point. Uh, really?
- [249:07]
A
Oh, it should have been. That's for book number two.
- [249:11]
B
It is. It truly is. So thank you all so much for joining us here on Rachel Deep Dive, and I will see all of you next time.