← RHAP: We Know Big Brother
RHAP: We Know Big Brother
BB27 Wednesday Live Feed Update September 24, 2025
01:03:15
Today, Taran Armstrong and Kirsten MacInnis talk through the live feeds for Big Brother 27!
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Every morning, Darian Armstrong talks Big Brother. Looking at the stuff from yesterday, all the drama, all the strategy and silliness from veto to hoh every single season, you know he is the reason. You know what's happening. Rob said that he could do it. Tomorrow. He will do it again. Hello everyone and good morning. Welcome to Our live feed Update from for September 24th, I'm your host Jared Armstrong and I'm here today to update you on everything that happened yesterday. The Big Brother 27 live feeds. It was day 78 in the house and we had the final four veto competition and some interesting things going on outside of that and, and honestly an uncertain result for what this means in the game with this final for veto outcomes. There's genuinely a lot to get into today, so let's get into it. With me, of course, to talk about it is Kirsten. How you doing, Kirsten?
- [03:49]
B
I'm doing great. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited that there it's. It's not a nothing day. So that's always fun.
- [03:57]
A
Truly. So of course Morgan is the hoh. Ashley and Ava are on the block, but doesn't really matter. All that really matters is the veto competition. And of course, the way this was set up, the HOH was fairly physical. So we were anticipating that it was at least possible that the final four veto may not be physical, which would give Ashley or Ava a shot to win this and evict Vince to go to the final three with Morgan. And so that is what Vince has been very worried about. What if they win? What if they take me out? They very much both plan to do so. So we did fairly quickly get to the veto competition in the day and when the feeds came back, we saw that Morgan has in fact also won the veto. And I literally, I don't even, I didn't even know where to put it on the graphic because it hasn't happened yet that the HOH is also won the video.
- [05:05]
B
Well, I think he chose a good spot. I think that works out. You know, Morgan was really low on herself at the start of the season that she wasn't winning competitions. She wasn't doing as well as she could. You know, she pinned it all and that she was going to do well on the wall. Didn't do well on the wall. But now all she does is win.
- [05:26]
A
Truly. Truly. So with Morgan having won the veto, it seems as though all hope is lost for Ava. Although you never know, right? With Vince, he is promising Ava he will not evict her or had been. But that's Vince for you. Of course, the big question on everyone's mind I think would be okay, obviously Morgan leaving Vince off the block, who would he actually vote to evict? And then once we've now sort of locked in the final three, will Vince cut Morgan? Can Ashley win somehow and take Vince. That seemingly was the rest of the analysis for the day. However, basically, as soon as the feeds came back from Morgan winning this vita, very quickly, Ashley started getting to work. Because Ashley, having lost yet another opportunity to do something with power, is once again forced to try to sort of just manipulate her way in to sort of finesse the. The circumstances and the people to get to where she can be. Her worst case scenario, of course, being sitting next to Morgan in the end. But, hey, if Morgan's gonna win anyway and there's nothing I can do about it, maybe I need to convince her to take me so that I'll have a shot.
- [07:01]
B
Yeah, Operation Ashley for at least top two. You know, she wants to get paid, and I, I think that's totally valid at this point in the game to just do what you can to get to the end. She's not drawing completely dead if there's a chance that she could be not against Morgan, but I. Morgan's gonna win finally, Joh, so might as well try to get that second spot.
- [07:27]
A
And so she got to work. Like I said, she's hyping up. She's hyping up Morgan. Oh, man, that was so impressive. You're so close to winning this game. You know. You know me. I, I have no shot. No shot. And you might think, right, you might think, like, this is so see through that she's saying I have no chance when I've accepted it. But this is a Persona and a position that Ashley has carefully crafted over the entire season. And so when she says this, Morgan believes her. Morgan believes she believes it. And, you know, I don't think she fully. I mean, she's obviously gaming here. She obviously was planning to, you know, to. To betray Morgan at any given opportunity. He's doing a good job here of hyping herself down and hyping Morgan up and really, like, getting into Morgan's head how close she is to actually winning the game. And I, I, I was genuinely very impressed, which I honestly, I don't think I have been all season long. I was genuinely very impressed with this conversation. There's a lot of things that Ashley's doing here that were. So she hypes Morgan up to get her excited about how close she is. She says, I have no shot, but I'm excited for you. Then she, of course, starts hyping up Vince's chances to win the game, how, you know, obviously he's played really well. He's still got a shot while I don't. Sucks for me, but it is what it is. You know, obviously you and Vince, you've played kind of similar but opposite games. And Morgan's like, can you explain that to me? She's oh, well, you're like, you know, he's the hoh king and you're the veto queen. And Morgan's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And does.
- [09:22]
B
That does like I. Yes, obviously. Like, he's one more two ages and she's one more vetoes, but I feel like just the explanation of that as like, equal and opposite. That doesn't pass the sniff test for me, though it does work in the house.
- [09:39]
A
Well, here's the thing, right? Obviously we don't and can't know for sure how the jury will vote, but from my estimation, and I would imagine the estimation of many people, Morgan actually probably beats Vince more handily than she does Ashley. Ashley may end up getting votes like Ava or Will or even Rachel, whereas Vince is desperate for, like, Lauren maybe, or Keanu, who said he would never do it. Like, Vince is really seemingly, I would imagine, drawing completely dead. Whereas Ashley actually has a better shot of beating Morgan. Not that it's a great one, but Ashley is doing a phenomenal job of convincing Morgan that Vince not only has a better shot than her, but has an actual shot of winning. And she loves talking about his hoh wins. And she talks in such a concrete way. And here's the thing, too. This is again, part of why Ashley is able to do this and get away with it is that Ashley has been speaking in concrete terms all season long. I have the votes. This person doesn't have the votes. It's obvious, so on and so forth. She laughs as she says it. It's annoyed people in the past. But the thing is, she's never wrong. That's what we've been talking about with Ashley all season long, is that her reads are phenomenal. And every time she does speak with such confidence, she's right. And she has developed a reputation with Morgan as being right as somebody who speaks it as it is. And so she's speaking it out to say I have zero chance of winning this game. Taking me to the final two is a guaranteed win, $750,000. Taking Vince is a gamble, and she has set this up properly. And she. She's like, wow, isn't that. Isn't it wild that Morgan, you're one tough decision away from winning seven, a guaranteed $750,000. And Morgan is like, I know it. I know. I know what you're saying is the truth. And Honestly, it's a really tough decision because, like, because, like, what will the jury think if, if I make a move to cut Vince, it'll make me look not loyal. Right? Like, that does that kind of undercuts my game? Girl, that's not a concern at all considering what Vince has been up to all season. You know, he was taking Lauren to the final two if he was able to. And Morgan's like, yeah, yeah, he was. He was. And remember, again, this was Ashley getting into Morgan's ear during that week, talking to her, convincing her for sure that based on the fact that Lauren had Vince's script to campaign to to them, that was the thing that fully locked it. And he definitely was taking her to the final two. She says, you know, and so, you know, Vince obviously has Lauren's vote and she loves talking about Lauren because it's a great, clever. And honestly, I'm not sure about Rachel, but, you know, Vince played such a similar game to Rachel, so I don't know. And I know Vince was really thinking, or I know Will was really thinking Vince was gonna leave before he left the house, but I don't know. He hasn't seen, like, you know, a lot has happened since then, so maybe, maybe. And again, it's, you know, the Rachel thing.
- [13:08]
B
Well, but no, but that, that's the thing. Like, she has been so correct and spitting facts that now when she is, I mean, lying. Because this game is not like Rachel's game.
- [13:22]
A
Not at all.
- [13:23]
B
It reads as true then to more like, even if that raised an alarm for Morgan, which it doesn't seem to have, she still be like, oh, no. But more. Ashley has always had, like, good reads and has always told me the truth, so this must be true. And it just, it's actually so good. I, I, if we get a Morgan win or naturally win at the end of the game, we can't lose. Both of these are excellent opportunities. But we're talking about on the slop this week, the, the option of if Vince took Ashley to the end and then Ashley beat him after everyone said he she was so dumb. And how Vince has no respect for, like inject that into my veins. Like just the, like, yeah. Make Zach look dumb again for calling her. And it, you know, like, that has a little bit more just kind of vindication for, for Ashley, which is fun. But again, can't lose either way if it's Morgan or Ashley.
- [14:22]
A
Yeah. And so, and what I like that she's doing here is that she's couching the lie, the Rachel lie. Into more solid truths. Right. Will was saying those things before he left. And Lauren really might be a locked in vote for Vince, or at least it appears like that's the truth. And so being able to. To use those two things and then couch a lie that makes them way worse right in the middle makes it start to seem really scary for somebody like Morgan who is very scared about losing. And all of a sudden it's like, well, three votes potentially going to Vince. I didn't have a good relationship with Keanu because this is the thing. Ashley doesn't even need to up Keanu or Kelly. She knows that Morgan's insecure about those votes too. And so by talking about votes that Ashley would know about and giving her that now, you know, Morgan's thinking, well, if I don't have those three votes, I have to rely on Keanu, on Kelly. Like now I'm really, genuinely concerned. And so Morgan says, actually, I'm genuinely considering it. It's like, it's a really tough decision, but I really am thinking about this. And Morgan is not Vince. She doesn't blow smoke like that. No, she's really considering this. And she says, if I had to decide right now, I honestly don't know what I would choose. I almost want to throw. I just almost throw the competition so I don't have to make that decision. Girl, don't be stupid. Please don't do that. You don't know what would happen. Again, the implication being Vince may cut you, so you can't be throwing because of course Morgan's not actually going to throw. But if Ashley reinforces the idea that she's on Morgan's side and just wanting Morgan to win, please don't be stupid and trust Vince. Please, please win, because I want. I want to see you win. And Morgan says, well, of course not. Of course not. I'm not going to. I'm not going to do that. I wouldn't actually. I just. It would really hur. Hurt to cut me to or to cut him. And Ashley says, well, you know, either way, you're gonna have to go against him, you know, by either cutting him or ripping him apart in the final two. You're gonna have to go against each other there. And you can tell that Morgan hasn't really thought of this and we've talked about this too, that I don't think Morgan will go hard against Vince in a final two scenario. But now Ashley's saying, well, you'll have to go against each other. And Morgan's going like, oh, well, I I don't really want to have to do that either. And Ashley says, again, girl, please, please, you're going to need to. If you want to beat him, you tear him apart, please. And again, couching this in a way that makes it feel like she's just trying to help Morgan out. I want to see you win. You're going to have to do these things if you want to beat Vince. With, of course, the underlying message being, or you could take me.
- [17:32]
B
It would be so easy. Well, the thing is, like, it's obviously not easy because she would still have to make the decision of cutting Vince. But, like, I feel like it's being portrayed and makes sense as easier to just cut him than have to really dissect everything and really get him. So just take me instead. It's fine. And it's just so, like, obviously we know that Ashley is a lawyer. They don't know that. Right. Only people in the jury know. And so obviously, you'd expect a lawyer to be able to, generally speaking, make a strong argument and. And build a case. Right. But the way Ashley builds it is it's so fun because she doesn't do it in, like, an overtly lawyerly way. Like, she's doing all the lawyer things of, you know, building the narrative kind, opening statements, making her arguments, all of that stuff. But she does it so well in the game of, like, friendship conversations. And I'm looking out for you. And she spent so much time, as you said, building her credibility that it just lands so, so well. And, yeah, if there's one thing to really take away from the final four is like, do not sleep on Ashley.
- [18:54]
A
Yeah. I mean, because again, it's like, you might look at this conversation and say, like, this is maybe what any person would do in this situation. But first of all, I don't. I think this actually is. There's more subtlety here than. Than is coming across. But also, again, the only reason this is working, the only reason this can land is because of the amount of work that Ashley has put into all the way through. Disney's Lilo and Stitch has finally landed on Disney. Now you can watch the global phenomenon at home with your ohana. Be good for one second. You're the devil. Lilo and Stitch is verified hot on Rotten Tomatoes with an audience score of 93%. Perfect stitch, also cute and fluffy. Disney's Lilo and Stitch rated PJ now stick streaming on Disney. And right now you can get Disney, Hulu, and all of ESPN with an incredible limited time offer. Terms apply this episode is brought to you by FXX and Hulu. An all new season of Futurama is back. Blending heartfelt moments with razor sharp humor while accidentally saving the day. The Planet Express crew is back, defying gravity and common sense. From the creator of The Simpsons comes 10 new episodes where the romance is hotter, the threats are bigger and the action hits harder. Don't miss the all new season of Futurama. Watch it Mondays on FXX or stream it on Hulu.
- [20:22]
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Visit lego.com preschool to learn more. And she brings up the cookout. She says, you know, you know, ah, Xavier brought Big D over Aza because he knew he would win guaranteed against Big D and that it would be closer against Aza. You know, again referencing history, that this, there's precedent for this. And then she does something else that I really love, which is she talks about like how, how wild is it that we're gonna meet Aza in four days? There are so many Big Brother people we're meeting in four days. Like just helping, kind of like take Morgan out of the tunnel vision of the game and into the wider, broader context of the world and how it's all going to be over in just a few days. We're going to be talking with each other. We're going to be meeting new people, other people who made the same kind of decision and, and they're all still friends and, and all of that.
- [22:18]
B
And this is interesting because obviously we know that Ashley knows Hannah Chada from lifelong. Isn't Morgan also friends with Hannah? I'm pretty sure they at least know each other, but I don't. Maybe that's a secret. I don't know I heard that they've at least met.
- [22:40]
A
Not something I would know, but maybe.
- [22:44]
B
I made it up. If you don't know, I might have made it up.
- [22:46]
A
They did both talk about how. How they were mad at Aza for screwing over Hannah.
- [22:54]
B
You know, they. They've talked about. They've talked about Hannah before, so I could see that.
- [23:02]
A
So I thought this was such an interesting conversation and just such a showcase of Ashley as a player and the things that she is capable of doing without ever being able to win power, because who. I don't know if it's going to work, but what I do know is that it had a significant impact on Morgan, because after this conversation, Morgan is clearly struggling with what Ashley has put into her head. And the vibe is off with Vince. She keeps bringing up Lauren and how she really wishes that she had won that veto during the double. Then she would have won six vetoes in a row. And, like, oh, man, then I would have had, like, blood on my hands. I would have had, like, a. A bigger move to my resume. I would have had a better chance of winning. And, you know, I just. I just. You know, I. I. And. And Lauren is gonna, you know, I just, like, Lauren doesn't like me, and I don't think Keanu is gonna vote for me. And Vince keeps trying to counter this. Like, you won. You won so many. It doesn't matter. Keanu's not gonna vote for me. He's more mad at me. But she's barely even listening to him. She's very in her head and very frustrated and worried about the fact that if only I had done this, if only I had won this veto, if only I had been able to take out Lauren on his hoh instead of afterward, if only, you know, so on and so forth, then I would have been able to handily beat Vince, and I wouldn't have to cut him if I wanted to. Guaranteed win. And she's in her head. She's very much in her head. And. And it's. It's completely messed up the vibe. Now, later on, they're going to have a little bit of alcohol, and they're going to. They're going to seem fine again, at least temporarily. But then we've got a lot of talk about.
- [25:00]
B
A talk about, we're not there yet. We're not there yet. We're not there there.
- [25:06]
A
In the meantime, Ava makes a pitch to Vince. It's the same pitch as before. It's, hey, you don't. But here's the thing. It's the same pitch as before, but it's a lot more true this time because she says, you have to worry about Morgan taking Ashley if you keep Ashley here. You know, if you keep me, Morgan's not gonna take me because she's worried about me winning, I guess. And. And Vince is like, yeah, yeah. And she says, plus, Ashley could still beat you, you know, with, like, Rachel and, you know, Will, like, she's got some votes. You never know. Like Keanu. She talked a lot to Keanu. Again, this is possibly true. She says, I think I have fewer votes than her, which I don't know is true. She says, I only have Will and Kelly, guaranteed. And I was like, those are not the two people you should have pointed out. She says, you might. You might even have Lauren, you know, if you take out Morgan. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I don't know. And he very clearly just doesn't want anything to do with this conversation. He's like, oh, let's. Once I'm actually for sure not on the block, let's maybe have this conversation. At that point, we'll go over all the scenarios. But I just. I. Right now I'm a little hungry, so if we. We mean just like, reconvene after the ceremony and then we'll. We'll figure it out from there. And she's like, okay, okay.
- [26:41]
B
It's so good. Like, this season has definitely been the one where, at least in my memory, the house guests are getting, like, the most, like, random details of Big Brother wrong or purposefully misrepresenting them. Because it's like, obviously, we all know the ceremony and the vote all happened in one fell swoop. So this has been saying, I'm literally never going to talk about with you, Ava, But Ava doesn't know enough about the game to see that she's been just totally pushed aside here.
- [27:13]
A
Yeah. So Ashley also then talks to Ava about essentially what she's trying to do, and she's. She's really, like, coaching Ava up that she should go and talk to Morgan, mostly because I think she's trying to use Ava as a bit of a further, like, corroborating wedge to drive between Morgan and Vince to try to get Morgan to take her over Vince. Because here's the thing about what Ashley's doing as well. Not only is she angling in this direction of trying to get Morgan to take her over Vince, but the more Morgan has decided to take her over Vince, the more Vince might take her over Morgan because it's driving a wedge between Them. And Morgan even said to Ashley in that conversation earlier, if he were to do that to me, I'd have to respect it. And, and it's like all of a sudden, hold on, Morgan, chill. Don't be saw. Don't be talking about like that to him. And, and so driving this wedge, very beneficial for many reasons. And, and let. Let me just tell you though, I did. I did have a small mental journey yesterday when Ashley was doing. Just to be clear, it's. It's a. It's a long shot of long shots. But imagine the world where Ashley has great goodbye messages to. To Keanu, to. To Ava, really explaining the, like, Ava in. On the fact that they're trying to split up Morgan and Vince and she actually gets Morgan to cut Vince for her and she actually holds on to Rachel and Will as votes. She still has Ava because she was working closely with her throughout, and all of a sudden she has three votes against Morgan and she just needs one more. One more. Kelly, Keanu, Lauren. Like, it all of a sudden doesn't seem like zero percent. You know, as Morgan might say, all of a sudden it's like, whoa, maybe, you know, like there's a small little smidge of a. Of a chance there. And what a, like absolute. I mean, this is. You know, this is like what, like legends are made of. If she could pull something like that off and then, yes, the great speech. You know what I mean? Like, coming out, I think she would do very well in a final two battle of. Of questions and the kinds of things that she could do to advocate for herself. So listen, just wanted to point it out because it is not 0%. This chance of her actually getting. Because her. Her getting Morgan to cut Vince felt like 0% just a day ago. And so now all of a sudden we're thinking about, wait, what is that? What does that actually look like if she manages to pull it off? And it's like, it's not zero percent. I think.
- [30:19]
B
Yeah, I think it's still low, much lower against Morgan. Obviously. It's not impossible. Morgan, Ashley, final two were. We're all winners for the season to end that way. You know, let's be very clear. I do think that you. You might be going a little loopy from the late nights. Taren, I'm worried for you. It's not zero. I agree that it's. I agree that it's not zero.
- [30:50]
A
What would my job be if not to point out these kinds of scenarios? I would be failing all of you if I didn't.
- [31:01]
B
You know, it might be good that Vince broke you this season. I feel like you're just, you're so much looser now. Like you're, you're willing to go down these paths. I love it. This is great.
- [31:14]
A
Listen, this is, this is, this is the real strategy. You point out all kinds of niche scenarios and then when they do happen, you, you clip it and you go, I'm a genius. Okay? This is how it works.
- [31:25]
B
This business. This is like when people sit there in the Big Brother house and they guess what the HOH competition is going to be and they talk about, or they talk about you, the wall every week. And then when the wall comes, they go, I knew it. Even though they've been wrong four weeks in a row.
- [31:44]
A
So, so that's, that's going on there. And, and so we get. There was one other thing I wanted to briefly mention before we get too, too deep into the rest of this because I've seen some discourse about like, why are people happier with Morgan dominating endgame competitions than like other players? And, and I, and I thought it was an interesting sort of thing to, to, to think about because first of all, personally, I'm not happy that anybody's dominating endgame competitions. You know this. But I do think that when I'm looking at like why people are more receptive to Morgan doing it than, than others in the past, regardless of the like, actual amount, I think there are three primary reasons.
- [32:37]
B
Okay.
- [32:37]
A
I think one, she was genuinely a huge force in the game. Even before she started winning competitions, she was already pushing really hard playing the game strategically her way, making moves. Once she started winning competitions, it just continued that trend and she just had more power to do so. She's not like an early game boot that got saved with a twist or a competition that shouldn't even be there like a Keanu or you know, other players. She just had a great run of competitions in the back half and many of them weren't even like strictly necessary for her to survive. Then number two, I think she had like actual decent competition to face off against. Keanu, Lauren, Vince himself, all pretty good competitors and she had to beat all of them throughout the end game to, to survive and get what she wanted in the ways that she ended up doing it. And then number three, and I think this is one of the bigger ones, it's the sped up end game. I think that like by the time she cleared out the rest of her competition, there's, there's like a week left of the game. So instead of Morgan finishing off all of the other competitors. And we're just waiting for her to win for like, over a month. And we have time to get bored and tired of it. It's like, okay, she did it and, oh, she's about to win tomorrow. Like, that's genuinely, I think, such a major factor in. In the response that people have had to. To Morgan in terms of why parts of the reasons outside of personality and all of the rest, why people are more like, receptive to liking her and being sort of appreciative of her run here.
- [34:28]
B
Yes. And I think all those points are extremely valid. I'd like to add one more point. Yes. I'm biased. If you're mad, argue with the wall. It's different when a beautiful woman does it. It's different. It's just different. Sorry. She's the first of her kind and.
- [34:46]
A
Yeah, I thought that was obvious.
- [34:48]
B
She's. So why. Listen, I gotta make sure it's set on the record, okay? And yeah, she's. She's so extremely well rounded. Like, she's not many of these competitions. She would not have been nominated. She would not have been. There's really only been one or two situations where she specifically saved herself with a computer. So it just feels different.
- [35:11]
A
All right, So I just had that thought. I thought there was not going to be a lot to talk about and I was going to bring up these couple of things and then that was going to be the update. However, that was not the case because after being coached up by Ashley, Ava talked to Vince or, sorry, talked to Morgan and basically just backed up all the points that Ashley was talking about about how Obviously it's like 50, 50 going to the end with Vince and potentially winning or losing, and that, you know, it's potentially 50, 50, even just competing against Vince in the final three HOH. And that if she was there, Morgan's basically guaranteed a final HOH win, let alone, you know, the decision to cut Vince or. Or Ashley or whatever. And also worth noting that Vince told Morgan that Ava was pitching, that Morgan would take Ashley to the final two for the guaranteed win. And Morgan was like, huh, interesting.
- [36:20]
B
She's got a lot to think about. She's. Everyone's got her ear and they have got a lot to think about.
- [36:30]
A
And so this is working. And again, it's. It's always so funny to me. If Morgan did cut Vince, I think you would have obviously so much to blame. But one of the primary factors would be Vince consistently talking down about Ashley so much that he can't even try to talk her back up. At this point, he's been so negative about her game, about her how. How much she deserves to be there, that. That he has inadvertently helped Ashley make the case to cut him and take her. And so. So here they are, and. And Ava's talking about this, and now all of a sudden, you know, the work that. That Ashley put in with herself via Ava is starting to do so well that. That Morgan's talking to Vince later in the night, and it almost starts to sound like she's thinking about the final four veto, that maybe Vince does need to wait to make sure he's actually off the block. So let's. Let me tell you some of this.
- [37:54]
B
Some of this conversation lead us down this mental journey.
- [38:00]
A
So there's a lot going on here, and I think I want to try to. To focus mostly on the game stuff first because there's a lot of other stuff going on. But basically, he. She was talking to him about, like, she's talking to him about some other stuff because again, there's personal and game mixed in with this, and she's thinking a lot about a lot of different things. But he's asking like, hey, is. Is all of this gonna change anything with the game or, like, is this just like a separate personal thing? Oh, no, it's. It's separate, she says. I mean. I mean. I mean, the thing is, though, if we're gonna call a spade a spade, Vince, and. And you can beat either Ashley or Ava, and so can I. I mean, you know, let's just be frank. You know, you know, he's like, what do you mean? You know, like, it's the final three was you, Ava, and Ashley, you'd. You'd be able to beat them in the final hoh. And, you know, so would I, most likely. And it's like, yeah, just, you know, can't ever underestimate the odds. But, you know, they're pretty favored to the people who've done better in the. In the comps. It's like, so. So you want to get rid of me? No. No, I don't want to get rid of you. Are you going to. To be fair, I don't even vote this week. Yeah, but. But you. You can use the veto or not. Yeah, I know I could, but. But I. But I don't want to. Oh, thank you.
- [39:55]
B
It's all this. After he promised he'd wear his hair curly if she won the veto. You know, like, it's just the disrespect is crazy.
- [40:04]
A
So all of A sudden, it's starting to look a little less locked than before. Do I think she's going to use the veto? Not necessarily. Not at the moment. But this has made some significant impact now. I think we now also have to talk about the rest of this because this came in the middle of a much deeper conversation about the state of their relationship, which I believe has sort of come up, because she's now thinking about all of these things, and. And they've had such a rocky time of it together. And so part of this is. Is pretty serious. And. And so I want to just sort of present as much of it as I can here because basically she's saying. She's talking about how she. Her mind keeps going back to a moment during his hoh, and she doesn't say explicitly what it is because, like, again, the vibes are off. He's like, what's on your mind? Are you okay? And she talks about how her mind keeps going back to this moment during his hoh, when she said or when she went. And then she. She makes a gesture when I. And the gesture seems pretty clearly to be like when she moved his hand away, sort of shut him down physically. And it seems as though she's talking about how he made some kind of advance that she turned down. And this was before they had talked about option one, before they had talked about feelings or anything. And so she's trying to say, in that moment, seemingly, this is what she's trying to say in that moment, she felt a bit confused because at the time he was saying to the cameras and to her, no, it's human chemistry. There's nothing happening. And so. So she felt very confused by it, especially because it was coming at the time when they were in the middle of their, like, most intense conflict, the. The lore and stuff. And she was concerned that the advance was maybe part of his game. And then afterward, he was talking about how he was worried that she was gaming him, and now she. And then she was worried that he was gaming her, especially when he's bringing up things like. Like, you know, if you do anything about Lauren, I. This will ruin our relationship on the outside of the house. So she's talking about this. This is. I'll get more into the sort of quotes here. She says, part of me wishes that I had waited. Would have waited to see. Why would you say that? Because I felt. I feel like you never said anything about how you were feeling. So it was very confusing. I just didn't really know what that was or why, you know, like, wouldn't the way to do it to be to say something first, you know? And he says, yeah, I, I think the environment is hard to say verbally what you want to. You know, it's just. It's hard to say it out loud, you know, I, I don't know, I was just, I was just cracking during that time. I was feeling a lot. And she says, I, I just remember you had made some comments after a couple days after where you were like, I swear, if this is you gaming me. And then I was thinking, like, is that what you were doing? Says, no, no.
- [43:48]
B
And, and that's the thing too, though, like, the fact that he would pretty quickly accuse her of playing him in this way, to me is evidence that he is inside on some level playing her. And Absolutely, I think what got her at the final.
- [44:10]
A
Well, I mean, yeah, we know that he was in the diary room saying that he was planning to cut her and planning to bring Lauren to the final two, despite the fact that he said he wasn't. So there is a bit of truth to this for sure. And she says, he says, I would never do that. I like the game, but I wouldn't do things like that. And she says, I just remember, Remember I was, I was laying there, I was like, why is. You know, And I guess after that, that's why I said I was confused, you know, I don't get why, you know, you did that. And he says, oh, I feel really bad about it for, for what it's worth, I feel really guilty and, and kind of frustrated and embarrassed. I didn't mean to get into your head. Did it upset you? She says it's, it's more of just like when you've been something like that, been through something like that before, it's just like, I don't know how to explain it. You just kind of go numb for a while and then, I don't know, I guess I just never in a million years would have thought that, like, you would have, you know, So I was just really confused. Just so, like, why wouldn't, like, one, you know what, like, one, what's going on? And two, why? Like, it was just a bunch of questions, like, what's happening? What's going on? Am I missing something? Like, especially when it was during your hoh week, I was like, whoa, you know, like, I didn't know what to think. It's hard because we're in this environment where we can't talk about it in detail. He says, oh, yeah, I really want to. I have A lot I want to say right now. And it's clear that, like, she wants him to say the things. Like, he's. Yeah, like, she's really, like, I would like some clarity on what this is and what you're doing. And if you're playing me or what's happening. And he's saying, I can't. I can't say anything right now because of the environment we're in. And she kind of goes like. And the only question I have now or that I had initially was like, if I didn't kind of stop it, essentially, what would have happened? He says, nothing. Nothing would have happened. And she's like, I just, you know, if you're flirting with the line, would it have been overly flirted with, even just a little, you know? And he's like, oh, I just. I feel really bad. Do you hate me?
- [46:46]
B
Just.
- [46:46]
A
No, I don't hate you. I just don't understand.
- [46:51]
B
And, like, this is the stuff that pisses me off the most because it's like, Vince has been the one to be doing the worst behavior. He is doing things that are wrong for real life, not even just in a game, right? And then when there's even a trickle of him being faced with the impact of his actions on another person, it's immediately, I'm the worst. Do you hate me? Oh, I'm so, like, I'm just this little slug of a man, and I like, please don't hate me as boo. Grow up.
- [47:32]
A
It is a very frustrating response to bringing up what I think are very valid questions and concerns to. And it's obviously, like, his instinctual response to these things, but it's. It's very frustrating because it immediately turns it on the other person and makes them feel like me bringing this up means I hate you, means I now have to tell you I don't hate you, and all kinds of reasons that.
- [47:58]
B
You know.
- [48:00]
A
I don't hate you. I just don't understand. I feel like, especially that week, you know, with life stuff affecting the outside world and then I guess everything except for, like, how you actually felt, it was really confusing. So I was like, well, you know, it's like, oh, I wish I could say more. I wish I could say more. It's okay.
- [48:26]
B
And it's. This is the thing. Like, they've. He's walked right up to that line and gone truly past. Like, for me, if that was someone I was dating past the line so many times that it's like, just say it. Just have the conversation. What are you so afraid to say on the live feeds that you can't say. Like, it's just so manipulative and like, blatantly so that it's honestly hard to watch.
- [48:54]
A
Also, just. Just be a normal contestant and do it in the morning when the music plays. That's what everyone does. Like, come on, just be.
- [49:01]
B
Nor Vince. Just be normal. Challenge level impossible.
- [49:08]
A
She says it's okay. He's. Is it? I mean, it's like, okay that you have nothing else to say. I can't force you to say anything how I want to. You know, I just, you know, the environment just got to me and I. And I couldn't say what I wanted then or now, I guess is. Is my interpretation. I'm sorry. You don't have to worry about that again though. She said, I didn't think I would. I don't know, it's just, you know, it's just still just something that I just. I don't know. I try not to think about it sometimes, you know, I feel like a bad person. I don't think you're a bad person, Vince. I feel like one. I wish I could say more. We talk about it next week. You're okay with that? Yeah. That's when they start talking about the eviction. The final four eviction. Morgan says that tomorrow she's gonna ask the girls to stay up in the bedroom with her instead of Vince. She says, you know, like, they were talking about boys and like, oh, do you want to spend the night in. In here? And she was like, oh, I would love to. So she kind of wants to spend the night with the girls tomorrow. And Vince is like, no, no, I'll go downstairs. You know, I. I could go tonight. I could go right now if you want me to. She says, no, it's okay. It's fine.
- [50:40]
B
You know, mind you, this is happening at like 2 in the morning already. And he's like, oh, well, you could have your girls night tonight. It's like, oh, so that she has a truncated shorter girls night. Vince, you're not slick.
- [50:55]
A
Well, yes. And so she says, it's okay, you know, I don't want you to be alone. It's fine. And so he starts asking like, is this. Well, is all this going to change anything about the game or is this a separate issue? And that's when she mentions that if we're going to call a spade a spade, I can beat Ava or Ashley in a final three. Hoh. So you want to get rid of me? I don't want to get rid of You. Are you going to. I don't vote, but you could use the veto after that. He says, did I. Did I ruin our friendship? She says, no, I just have a lot of questions, that's all. I. I just. I always wonder that if the roles were reversed, if you would get rid of me. No, I wouldn't. I've. I've talked about that a ton. She's. I know, but that doesn't mean you haven't entertained. It doesn't really have a response to that.
- [51:50]
B
Well, and this is the thing too, like that. It's like to me, I. I don't find Morgan personally to be as toxic as Vince by any means, but like, when they get into these super frog conversations, they're out crazying each other, like they're. They're each trying to be just a little more crazy.
- [52:18]
A
He starts to talk about some things she says, and he says, are you sure we're okay? She says, yeah, we can talk after. He says, I'm really sorry. I don't want you to think of me as some kind of, like, say it. He says, I deserve to be alone. Do you forgive me? She's. Yeah, I just have questions. And then they keep talking back to game, talking back about Lauren, the way Vince, that you celebrated with her when she won the blockbuster. I know you were keeping her that week and he. He keeps trying to say, yes, you're. That's true, but that's only because I felt like I could influence her to keep. To. To not come after you, to keep you. And this is a lie. This is a straight up lie. He was not only not able to influence her to not come after, he was actively inciting and encouraging Lauren to go after Morgan. So he is lying to her and she tells him, well, if I ever watch the show, I'll know how you felt based on your doctor. And he's like, okay, well, even with those thoughts, are you still gonna take me to final three? She says, don't freak out, Vince. Okay? I'm. I'm just. I'm really sorry for hurting you. I. I think this is why when I tell you I love you, I say, you'll never actually understand or believe how much. And then she hits him with, are you really unemployed?
- [54:08]
B
Hilarious. I'm sorry. That's one of the funniest questions I've ever seen.
- [54:15]
A
She genuinely thinks he might be lying about it. This is something that Ashley had mentioned as well, that she thinks Vince might be lying about being unemployed. He then goes on about how he is unemployed. He Feels lost in life. He's never had a passion and, and never found anything he was good at. And he really starts like breaking down. And so of course then she starts kind of comforting him and trying to build him back up after this question. And then he keeps saying, I. I love you, Morgan. I love you, Morgan. She says, I know. He says, I just hope you, I hope I didn't do anything to make you feel less of me or to make you, to make you think less of me. Do you forgive me? Yeah. Do you promise? Yeah. Are you just saying that? No. I love you. I love you too.
- [55:10]
B
Yeah. He wants her to stay back so bad. He's just continuing until she sets it back. I want to, a little bit on the employment thing, just, I like to speak on this a little bit because I think a lot of people think, oh, well, if I can't find a job that gives my life meaning, that there's no point. Or like that's how he's kind of talking about. He feels so bad, like he's not good at anything. There's nothing to whatever. Sometimes you're like, you can work to live. You don't gotta live to work. You can just have a job that pays your bills and then you don't think about it when you leave work. And that's also like a valid way to live your life. You, it doesn't have to be your great passion. Your passion can be your spare time. It's, it's okay.
- [56:00]
A
Yeah. I mean, and listen, I, for as much as, you know, Rachel made the joke about unemployed 34 year old, and it's sort of like part of Vince's personality, you know, I, I don't think there are at least a lot of us here that are like, really, like, like, oh, he's a bad person for being unemployed. No, like anything like that.
- [56:25]
B
And like, it's a hard job market too. Like, it's not that easy to just get a job. Even applying at like quote unquote, entry level positions or even in customer service positions. It's not a guarantee that you'll just get a job. Right? Like, it's not that easy. And it's especially not that easy if you're sitting there saying, oh, well, I'm not going to apply to any jobs because they aren't going to be my life passion. Like, that's just, it's not practical.
- [56:56]
A
And, and honestly, like, this is my opinion, but like, I think it's, I think that sucks. I think that the reality of the world sucks. That, yeah, that you. That many people aren't able to find a job, that they're passionate. I don't think that's fair. I don't think that's right. I don't think that's how we should live as a society. I think that the system is broken, but. But it is the reality of the situation. And so unfortunately, many people do find this. That they're not able to find something that they're passionate about. Many people have to work to live, and even then people struggle. So there's obviously a lot of, like, deeper issues attached to all of those conversations. But. But, you know, we're talking about Vince and Morgan here and you know this. So this. They have this conversation and then the. The clip that's been circulating in the morning now is that after they had this big conversation, they go to sleep or they start to go to sleep and he actually makes another move to, like, spoon her. And intentional or not, his hand gets a little far and she takes it off of her and says, I'm really hot. I'm really hot. Completely shuts it down. And in the context of the conversation they just had, definitely this was not the time. Not great.
- [58:33]
B
Spooning is crazy. First. First and foremost, spooning is crazy. And second, you can just see that Vince's instinct is we've been fighting it. Like, we're a little rocky right now. If I up the intimacy, maybe that will make her feel close. Like, you can just see, like, oh, that's his natural inclination. And it's not. Not correct in this moment, especially given the specific content of their conflict.
- [59:05]
A
Yeah, like, and I'm talking about, like, best case scenario, reading this as. As best you can. She just had a conversation with him about how him making an advance on her without explaining the situation verbally made her really uncomfortable and she doesn't know what it means and she would really like to have a conversation. And he said, I never want to put you in that situation again. And then literally, like hours later made a physical advance again. And it was. I don't know if it was the same kind of physical advance because I don't know what kind of physical advance it was before. But it certainly you can understand why people are like, what is. What is happening here?
- [59:53]
B
I just wild. Just wild.
- [60:02]
A
So that's what's happening. And again, this has significant game ran ramifications here as it seems as though this is definitely weighing on Morgan's mind. Not only who she wants to bring to the final two, but also what she might do with the veto the way that she was talking about this veto. Now, again, do I think she'd actually cut Vince here at the final four? I don't know. I. I think that maybe she is using the uncertainty at final four as a way to not talk as much about the real uncertainty she has at the final three. I think that's possible. But it's also possible that she really is considering the idea of taking him out at final four. The way that she talked about how she can definitely beat Ava and Ashley in a final three HOH definitely implies that it's something she's thinking about. That. That she can come much closer to guaranteeing a win in the final two if she cuts Vince now and doesn't even have to compete against him at the final three. And so there's a lot going on here. And what I will also say is through all of that conversation last night for Vince, I actually think the opposite might be happening that I talked about before where, like, the more Morgan talks about potentially cutting Vince, the more likely he is to potentially cut her. I feel like, at least currently, after all of that, he feels less likely to cut her now than he did before. In my opinion, given all of what.
- [61:49]
B
They talked about, it's just so hard to say because it's a day that ends in why. And so Vinny's lying and manipulating. So it's just like you. You can. You can never bank on it. Even based on what he says and does, that does not necessarily mean his actions will align.
- [62:08]
A
And that's the thing. Even in that conversation, he was lying about things that he knows she's going to go back and watch in just a few days in a very serious conversation about a lot of very serious things. He's still lying about. About that stuff. And that tells me he is still. I mean, I mean, it is. It's. It's. It's just what he does. Right? So, yeah, you can't. You can't really know for sure, I think, what he. What he might do if he does win that final three hoh. So definitely something worth considering. Okay, so that's pretty much what we had from yesterday. Kirsten, anything else that you wanted to bring up?
- [62:56]
B
Just damn. Production was really hoping Keanu was going to be at the final four so that he could win either the HOH or veto. Hey.
- [63:04]
A
Yeah, they were both pretty. Keanu. Keanu, like, because the. Even the dice specifically for the final four hoh, like, that specific comp was one Keanu had talked about a lot in the house. Like, he prepped for it. He was ready. He's this big guy who's gonna be able to move the dice really quickly. Like we haven't had that comp in ages.
- [63:26]
B
Like, yeah, it has been a minute.
- [63:31]
A
Yeah.
- [63:31]
B
Yeah.
- [63:33]
A
So, yes, that is what we have. Of course there will be an episode tonight, a late one. It's the Survivor premiere followed by tonight's episode where we will see Keanu's eviction and then tomorrow night we will see the veto ceremony live along with the final four eviction. And you're probably going to want to tune in to the live feed update Tomorrow morning at 11:00am Eastern so I can update you on whether or not this actually has legs, that Vinnie might actually be evicted at the final four. Again, my guess would be no at this point, but considering all of the conversations last night, it definitely seems like it's actually a possibility. And of course I'll be streaming tonight, Twitch, YouTube and Patreon for the entirety of the Survivor two hour surviv premiere followed by Big Brother. So a three hour block of Watch Partying and then a podcast afterward as well here on RHAP for both Survivor and Big Brother, of course. So stay tuned for all of that. Of course. Check out my book behind the Mirror Inside the World of Big Brother. You can pre order it@taran armstrong.com Kirsten, what are you. What are you up to?
- [64:50]
B
Yes, so Love Island Games is on right now and Brian Scally and myself are covering it atweknowloveisland.com it has been extremely fun and dramatic, so definitely check that out. I joined Chappelle on nothing but Netflix this week to talk about Love Con Revenge, which was, listen, you want to talk about manipulative relationships, so you head right over there. There was a lot of that going on. I also was on the Diary Room this week. Myself and Brayden White from BBCAN9 joined Matt Naman to do an oops all Bbcan episode which is also very fun. Mess Magnets with myself and Sasha Joseph is coming out again on Friday morning and you can follow me everywhere at Kirsten said what? Including Twitch tv. Kirsten said what? Where I'm actually going to be doing like a morning coffee stream in like 30 minutes so you could come keep the morning going. Come join me over there.
- [65:46]
A
All right, well, thank you all so much for joining us here today and I will see all of you next time.