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David Bloomberg (1:40)

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Ovie Kabir (1:44)

Are you.

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Ovie Kabir (2:02)

This is why blank lost.

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Ovie Kabir (2:10)

This is why blank lost.

David Bloomberg (2:20)

Welcome back to why Blank Lost or this week, why Blank and blank Lost. I'm David Bloomberg and as many of you probably can guess, I am so happy they finally got rid of Kelly. I'm in my party outfit. Here we are. Yay. Now, less excited about Lauren losing, but her game took a solid turn for.

Ovie Kabir (2:41)

The worst this week.

David Bloomberg (2:42)

And of course, joining me to talk about all of that and party with me is my co Host Ovie Kabir.

Ovie Kabir (2:51)

I am here happiest way to spend my Friday evenings with nobody else but David Bloomberg and to do a party because Kelly has been evicted. I might be less happy about this than David just because David has been waiting for this moment because she's the antithesis of essentially the entire game, that of the rules. And now. It's very apt that we now will probably have our longest episode covering Kelly and Lauren. But yes. What a week it's been.

David Bloomberg (3:18)

Yes. Yeah, in one night we got rid of the baby of the house right after we got rid of the toddler of the house. Meanwhile, we saw mom and dad fighting all week long and then making up and then fighting and then making up and then fighting and so on. Now, since this is a double podcast for a double eviction, it's going to be longer than usual and that means, unfortunately, I had to drop out a few examples I otherwise would have used for certain behavior. But don't worry, there were so many, especially for Kelly, that you, you won't even notice any are gone. Now, even with two very different players to discuss, we will follow our usual path of comparing how they played to a set of guiding rules I originally wrote back in 2004 and have modified ever since. We'll analyze their actions using what we saw on TV live feeds, interviews and other information. And the most recent published version is at. Rob has a website.com Big Brother Rules. Usually we have some other things to discuss about the week in general. This week I only have I say one thing beyond our two players, but that one thing is kind of all encompassing because that one thing, quote unquote, is Morgan. She truly drove all the action this week in both good and bad ways. Strategically, she absolutely took over Vince's HOH and pushed him into doing what she wanted him to do. I'm about to say a bunch of bad stuff about Kelly, so I will give her this. She had a good joke on live feeds where she said to Keanu it was nice of Morgan to let Vince stay in the HOH room during her hoh.

Ovie Kabir (5:07)

We got a lot of jokes.

David Bloomberg (5:08)

Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (5:09)

A lot of clips from this entire week. I mean it. What a storyline that I could not have imagined taking place. And we didn't really get a showman. I mean, yeah, we had Riley showmance, but I feel like that one pre jury dissipated afterwards and we have this strange feet. Whatever mans that has kind of taken the cheat.

David Bloomberg (5:30)

Man, I've given in. I've given in to using what, what, you know, most on Social media are calling it the Cheat Mans and it.

Ovie Kabir (5:38)

Has taken over the house. I mean, it's become a part of. The editors have completely taken it over for the episodes the have talked about it. I mean, it has actually impacted the game very interestingly in a way where not just of like, oh, these people are aligned together, but it's like the morality of it, I think is impacting how certain players view it and yeah.

David Bloomberg (5:58)

And the awkwardness of it. Now, with all of that said so far, despite Vince claiming to Lauren that he was forced into the moves he made, he wasn't. He's a grown man, though sometimes it's hard to tell with all the crying. And he could in theory have made his own decisions. In the end, after lots of whining and arguing, instead he made the decisions Morgan wanted him to make. At this point, she has to be the favorite to win. I guess it's possible there will be a series of events where someone like, I mean, in theory Vince could turn on her, but we know that's not going to happen. But someone like Keanu wins HOH and decides to target her and she doesn't win veto and there's enough votes. But I mean, I think Ashley and Vince both want to keep her, so one of the two of them would have to be up against her. So it would take a very specific set of circumstances to have her go out next or fourth. Not impossible, but you know, the. Then on top of that, the zing of Morgan tangentially hitting Vince, which really should have been directed at Vince, not at Morgan, but it, it made them briefly pause their activities and go into a world of denial. But that lasted such a short time that literally, as we saw on Wednesday's episode, he was proclaiming it's 100% platonic friendship. Platonic friendship. And they both said there's no way it could be perceived any other way on the live feeds. We saw them later with Vince telling Morgan, I love you more than you'll probably ever know or believe. And then he went into saying he wants what's best for her in the game and he wants her to succeed. And then he cried and said he, he didn't think he'd meet somebody like her in there. He hopes they're in each other's lives. Afterwards, no matter what, he kept like in between every very lovey type phrase, he would add something in to couch it sort of in game terms, but this was clearly not game related. And then in the HOH bed later that same night on live feeds, Vince Whispered to her, I love you so much. And she said, I know the feelings mutual. Now, for those of you who are not on video, you did not get to see OVI just rubbing his head just like, oh, my gosh. I obviously don't know what's going on in their heads, but they are living in more of a fantasy world of delusion than Keanu. If they think that they can act the way they are and say these things out loud and still pretend, it's obvious they're just pals. And then Vince even had the nerve to shout out his parentheses X girlfriend in the second vote of the night.

Ovie Kabir (9:20)

The only way I feel like it could come all around is Vince is at the end of the game and is essentially saying, this was part of the plan. I tricked you, Morgan. I tricked Lauren. I tricked every single person. And then his partner outside house was. It was all part of the plan. You know, there's. This is a lot of people he has put himself into and he has no one but to blame himself. And yeah, it's so strange just seeing all this stuff. And then you would think after the Zingbot this past week, it was kind of a wake up call initially. But no, if they have continued strong force keep moving forward into this cheat man. And like you've mentioned too, it's really impacted so many facets of the game.

David Bloomberg (10:03)

Yeah. I mean, when people are literally leaving the room because it's so awkward because you're hugging for such a long time, that's. That's not good. When. When Keanu is making a joke about Cheating island, which makes the episode, the recap of the episode. And their Instagram and tick tock posts, like, literally their Instagram has something saying, is it Big Brother or Cheating Island? You know, it's. It's not good, man. And for them, the part that really gets me, I mean, they're two consenting adults. They're impacting on Vince's girlfriend, which is bad, but they're two consenting adults. Stop lying to us about it. Just stop it.

Ovie Kabir (10:45)

Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting because we really haven't seen, I feel like the show beforehand take this level of they try to protect some of their final five finals or whoever it might be, you know, final six at this point, the players essentially, and especially when it's like in some sort of relationship, they want to know. There's times putting all the dirty laundry saying, this is not on us. This is all on you. All, you know, kudos for that. We get, we get to see the story unfold in front of us.

David Bloomberg (11:17)

I mean, they, I think they hid it from TV only viewers for a fair amount of time until it finally had to be set. There was no way they could avoid. I think they actually, you know, I don't give much credit to production very often, especially this season, but I think that they introduced it at about the right time and let it, you know, grow as part of the storyline, which it did.

Ovie Kabir (11:44)

Yeah, it's a huge part of. So, I mean, this is. We have even gone through our segments and we're talking about this because it has impacted everything in this and I think when we talk about Lauren going home, this is going to be such a huge portion of it because it truly has changed the game in such a weird way because it's like they are, yes, a showmance in the game, but also they're denying it. So the players are like confused, but also not confused. I feel like if it was a straight on show, it'd be a different way to tackle this for the players. But since it's not, they're also getting confusing. So in a weird way, it's working game wise for them. But also it's just. Yeah, it's a very strange situation that I'm not sure if we'll see again like this.

David Bloomberg (12:28)

No, I would imagine not. All right, well, with all of that, do you have anything or anyone else you want to discuss before we move on to our semi regular segment?

Ovie Kabir (12:41)

All I will say is that it is impressive that our finals twos and ones are still in, not final twos and ones. Our winner picks are still in the game and the odds are one of us is probably going to win this season. I mean, the way it's looking like it, it looks like we might just win here, whether it's Ashley or Keanu. And who would have thought if you asked us Week one.

David Bloomberg (13:06)

Oh, week one. We were disavowing. Well, I was disavowing at that point and you were, you were like, well, I won't disavow, but you know.

Ovie Kabir (13:14)

Exactly. And I think right now we, we have ironically swapped rooting for each other's winners picks in different ways. And I guess that's the sauce. That's how we can get them to win. I root for yours, you root for mine. We'll see what happens.

David Bloomberg (13:27)

Yep. Yeah. All right, well then let's go to our semi regular segment. Julie Chen Moonves is wrong about Blank this week. In her interview with Dalton Ross, she kind of tiptoed the line about almost being wrong enough for me to call her out when it came to a couple topics until she answered a question about my winner pick Keanu's chances to win. It wasn't even much, but in a parenthetical she added, in discussing Keanu's resume, she said, it's quote, so strong and this just speaks to how little she watches or understands the game. The only part of his resume that is strong is winning comps. But why has he won so many comps? He's had to because he plays so poorly. He made Ashley so mad earlier this week by being himself that she wanted to vote him out instead of Kelly or Lauren. He told her that she didn't understand something and she later ranted to the camera, you don't understand nothing in this game. You're only here because you won your way, not because of your social game. Your social game sucks. Your reads on the house suck. And she was right about all of it.

Ovie Kabir (14:53)

Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where, you know, a broken clock is going to be right one twice a day. Right. And we're seeing that in some shapes or forms. I mean, this is truly, I think probably your favorite segment because David has been howling across the mountains about the game of Keanu, the game of Kelly. And I think you actually, I'm trying to remember, your prediction last week was both Keanu and Kelly going home.

David Bloomberg (15:18)

Yes. Yeah. So yes, Your winner pick is 100 correct about my winner pick. And Julie, as usual, the super casual is wrong. All right, well, before we, before we get to the rules, I do want to mention that Survivor 49 is almost here and while we don't have Big Brother rules related merch, we do have the Survivor rules on a poster. You can go to robhazawebsite.com yx lost feed, scroll down, click on it, order it. In addition to the poster, you can also get that same design on a shirt or the checklist on a shirt. So again, go to robhazawebsite.com yxlostfeed and and you can click to your heart's content. This episode is brought to you by ESPN. Catch the first WWE premium live event on ESPN Wrestlepalooza live on Saturday, September 20th at 7:00pm Eastern Time. It's going to be an epic night in Indianapolis featuring some of the biggest WWE Superstars. This event is only on ESPN, so go to stream.espn.com and sign up to the ESPN app today for your All Access Pass to russapalooza and all WWE Premium Live events Race the rudders. Raise the sails. Race the sails.

Ovie Kabir (16:51)

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

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Over.

David Bloomberg (16:53)

Roger, wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. Start converting your B2B audience today. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started today@LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by FXX and Hulu. An all new season of Futurama is back, blending heartfelt moments with razor sharp humor while accidentally saving the day. The Planet Express crew is back, defying gravity and common sense. From the creator of The Simpsons comes 10 new episodes where the romance is hotter, the threats are bigger, and the action hits harder. Don't miss the all new season of Futurama. Watch it Mondays on FXX or streaming on Hulu. Kelly came into the game without any clue about how it worked. Lauren came in as a longtime fan who should have known how it worked, yet they went out back to back in the double eviction, each even having such different Big Brother backgrounds, we're going to discover that they had a surprising amount of overlap in terms of problems with their games. Let's figure out how that ended up happening, because at rhap, we know Big Brother and we know why Kelly and Lauren lost. The first and most important rule is of course, to scheme and plot. I say of course, but this is not something Kelly knew. As different as Kelly and Lauren were in this game, though, they both managed to fail horribly at this rule, just in in different ways. We'll start with Kelly. She had absolutely no idea what she was doing in the game and she never learned. I noticed even in our preseason podcast, based on the very little information that we had, that she was lying about how much Big Brother she had seen. For those who may not remember, in one place she said two seasons or she said one or two seasons and I was like, you don't misremember whether it's one or two, which tells me it's none. And that was quickly confirmed just by watching her. But she's continued to lie. And into the exit interviews. She claimed to Dalton Ross that she watched two seasons, yet she immediately then said she didn't know anything about Big Brother and this was the exact type of thing that allowed me to catch her lie to start with, because that's a contradiction. There's no way you can watch two seasons of a show and know nothing about it.

Ovie Kabir (19:37)

Yeah, I mean, that was one of our biggest worries. One kind of reviewing Kelly's interviews and conversations, especially after week one, where she believed that the best strategy to go into the house was one without a strategy, one where you can adapt or make your own stretch. And we hear this so many times where Big Brother players talk about wanting to be adaptable when they go in the home, and that is very important. It's important to be flexible, one of our rules, but it is important to have some form of strategy going in there. And she had none. And, I mean, I guess maybe the strategy was put volunteer herself on the block. And we see that manifest itself in many different ways. And then, you know, to her credit, eventually she said maybe this wasn't the best idea, realizing maybe far too long, maybe six weeks down the line, it becomes you become a pawn. So it's one of those things where with Kelly, she fooled us in a little way, but also didn't fool us because she fooled us because we trusted that maybe she watched a season or two, and you can never play the game fooled. You're never fooled.

David Bloomberg (20:40)

I said she was not. She had never watched anything. And then, you know, even again, talking to Dalton Ross, she said, I said often in the house that it felt like I had just been explained the rules of a board game and was just expected to play it. But of course, there's only one person to blame for this, and that is herself. She could have watched seasons of Big Brother. She could have learned about the game. She chose not to. And it showed, especially here in Rule 1. Because while she claimed to Julie that it was easy making allies and people came to her, that was just more of her absolute bs. She never really had allies until the very end when she was left with Ava and Lauren, who also didn't really have any other allies remaining, and they were pretty much just hanging out because they were friends. Even when she thought she had allies, they really weren't. Like her big reveal that she was Vince's ally. And, you know, the funny thing is he later said on live feeds that he essentially hadn't talked to her since week two. Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (21:45)

And if you watch just a show, it makes it seem like Kelly and Vince are incredibly close throughout the entirety of the season and portions of it. And there's a level of betrayal she feels, but Vince really wasn't doing much more with Kelly than he was with everybody else.

David Bloomberg (22:02)

Right.

Ovie Kabir (22:02)

And Kelly just really latched on and believed it, believed in the final twos, final threes. And it's Kind of one of the things where you see in front of you that when your allies putting you and all your allies on the block and they're going home week after week, they're not really your ally. And when your strategy is built on your ally, it doesn't work well when they're really not your allies. She couldn't see that at all.

David Bloomberg (22:28)

Yeah. So you already mentioned Kelly starting out in the most bizarre way possible, which was really an indicator of her game to come. She volunteered to be the pawn in week one, telling Vince, who was hoh at the time, I think I would make a little bit of a name for myself by going up. It might hate or might help my game. Only someone with absolutely zero knowledge of Big Brother would believe that volunteering on week one would help their gang. And then she later tried denying to other people that she volunteered, which was ridiculous because they already knew, in part because she told some of them. And then, of course, she volunteered two more times because she just kept believing that she would earn some sort of loyalty point she could cash in later. Never arrived because the points didn't exist. Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (23:20)

And I. I see this so much with certain players. They say that if I put myself on the block for you, I'm showing I'm a team player. They're going to feel like they owe me one or they're gonna have, like, thank you for that. No, no player will feel like they owe you ever at all. They all they will feel like is that you are now expendable. You are able to go on the block over and over and over again and never have to worry whether they're going to upset you because you were on the block last week, someone else. But you're like, I'm just following the trend. You can't blame me. And that is truly the lack of understanding with the game. Like, people say halfway through that, you know, the season, they're like, well, pawns go home. Well, if you watched just two seasons, you know that pawns always go home.

David Bloomberg (24:03)

Especially the season she claimed to watch, which one of which was last season. How much time did we spend yelling last season about people that volunteered to go up and then went home? Like, there's no way you could have watched last season and thought that it was a good idea to volunteer if you had one active brain cell in your head?

Ovie Kabir (24:24)

Yeah. And I think with the addition of the basically triple nominations week in, a week out, and then you have the competition to take yourself out, it empowered certain house kids, especially Kelly, to feel like this is the right strategy because now I have the options to always fight my way back. And that's just. That's not how. Maybe that's how Big Brother this season's played and maybe some future seasons, but I hope it's not that. That's just not Big Brother.

David Bloomberg (24:49)

Yeah. Yeah. Now, another problem was she had no idea how to even talk to people in a strategic way. After her first nomination, she wouldn't make promises to anyone. Ashley, Amy and Rachel wanted her to promise them safety if she won hoh. And her response was, well, I just won't try to win. But that's not what people want. People want an ally who will try to win HOH and then keep them safe, not someone who's going to avoid it and let someone else win and therefore they might be in danger. It was yet another sign of how Kelly truly knew nothing about the game. And again, as the game went on, she still didn't learn. Even Ava clocked her, saying at one point, kelly has only focused on who not to trust, and she's not developed any loyalties. And the thing was that Kelly trusted pretty much nobody because she kept finding reasons not to. For example, Rachel tried to let Kelly know that she wanted to work together multiple times, but Kelly didn't believe a word of it and kept breaking whatever trust Rachel tried to give her.

Ovie Kabir (25:56)

Yeah, and it's one. It's. When you look at the way she's playing, that playstyle of kind of a gunslinger where you just keep on trying, you can win the competition, but you realize that you're not making these deep connections with other players, and so they're going to make other connections with other players. So she would get offended so easily and so quickly when she saw other relationships are deepening other than hers, and in turn, like you mentioned, kind of turn on it and reject any notion of working there. And, you know, I think we're going to see a contrast when we talk about it where we talk about somebody who really is kind of pushing away people and somebody who just lets them come to them. And with Kelly, it was neither. You know, she would push away people and she wouldn't try to come to them either. So it was a weird mixture of. And I, you know, it's one of those things where if you don't know the game, you can learn it as you go on and. But then you might have an inability to, like, reject strategy. I feel like with Kelly, she wanted to reject any form of strategy in gay.

David Bloomberg (26:56)

I. I don't know that she would know it to reject it. I don't think she knew what it was. And, you know, like I said, she never learned how to play. And that's probably her biggest problem. She's not the first recruit to come in without a lot of game knowledge. She may be the first to have exactly zero game knowledge and certainly the first to be so proud of it and, you know, definitely the first to make it this long without managing to get any clue at all along the way. Even Keanu said about her, she doesn't know how to play. She's just really good at puzzles. And Kelly herself recognized it at times, telling us on, you know, at live feeds or telling other players. Now, a few examples. Early on, I think after her first time volunteering, Kelly cried to herself, saying, I think I effed up. I thought I could do something cool, something different. Yes, indeed, she did F up, which is likely to happen when you come into a game without even studying the basics of it. Later in the game, she told the cameras, I don't really know how to play this game. But she said she doesn't know if she's doing well or not. Well. That takes a huge amount of ignorance to not even know if you're doing well. Here's a hint. Little belated, no, you weren't. Then after Adrian was voted out, Kelly told the cameras, I wish I threw the Blockbuster. I wish Adrian was here instead of me. I don't deserve to be here. He's better at this game than me. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to play this game. Now, believe me, Kelly, I wish you'd thrown Blockbuster, too. But again, she admitted not knowing what she was doing while never making any attempt to try to figure it out. You know, later, when Rachel asked her if she wanted to win, she said, yeah. Rachel asked if she thought she was playing a good game, and Kelly replied, I don't know. I've only seen one season. I don't know what a good game is. And again, saying one season there, two seasons elsewhere, you know, caught in that lie. But I think the last line says it all. You know, I don't know what a good game is. She doesn't know what any game is.

Ovie Kabir (29:05)

Yeah, and it's. I. I was sad watching her play in certain ways because you want them to be able to pick something up. You want the underdog to be able to kind of start working their way through when she can, which I. I want to get something for some traction because she was winning these competitions. Her Back against the wall. But every single time she would swing, it was in the wrong direction. And yes, like you mentioned it, you can't really. You don't know how a game is played if you've never seen it. But also, there's certain things you can pick up. I just don't feel like for Kelly, that was notion. I think more than anything. We, I think we talked about it with Will where they get complacent a little bit, that after you survive that initial portion of the game where you think your game is done and you have a second life. And for Kelly, she had probably nine lives. She was a cat in the game where she kept coming back. You're just happy of how you've done, you know, And I think we saw that really manifest herself in the way of how she would try to scheme, how she would plot this, because it was, let it come to her. Let the game come to her. And the game was just flying by.

David Bloomberg (30:09)

Well, it's interesting, you said, you know, you talked about learning the game, learning something. When she came out to talk to Julie, she bragged about having learned how to play chess. So she had time and inclination to learn how to play chess in the Big Brother house, but she never bothered to learn how to play Big Brother in the Big Brother house.

Ovie Kabir (30:31)

Yeah. And chess. Learning chess will only get you so far in the Big Brother house. If anything, it's easier to learn the game of Big Brother or watch a season of Big Brothers put in the background. I mean, it is a game for $750,000. Please, please, please, just watch a season, learn a little bit. Just read something about the show before you go on.

David Bloomberg (30:49)

Yeah. Now, even while she refused to learn the game, Kelly got upset about the consequences of that attitude. For example, she talked about being, quote, so mad when that she kept getting blindsided by votes. But that's what happens when you don't actually know how to play. And others saw it as well. I mentioned Rachel trying to reach out to her earlier, but Rachel knew she couldn't actually work with Kelly in any serious way. She asked Kelly about planning for the future, and Kelly talked about getting rid of the people who don't contribute to the housework. That's not the game.

Ovie Kabir (31:28)

It's a part living with other people. And I think. And I don't want to skip too far into about the irritation of things because I think she was very clear about how she recognized how she irritated players. But I think that was a part of when you realize, you know, your personality, you know, how you are. You know how you are, David. I know how I am. And it's like an idea of when you're around other people, that personality manifests itself and that might also change the way you'll tackle your strategy. And, you know, for somebody like Kelly, I really think she needed allies in the house where she could work with, and that's why we see her so caught up in with Vince or where she feels like she rejected Rachel because she's like, you crossed me. I can. You cross my allies, I cannot work with you. And so her strategy was predicated that she would have people she could work with. I think as she was forming some form of strategy throughout the game and it just kind of faltered.

David Bloomberg (32:23)

I mean, I don't think she ever did form any sort of strategy. You know, I mean, like, speaking of housework, the. She tried one of her ideas of great strategy, which was going on a cleaning strike, so the house would be messier and Rachel would keep her over Ashley. She actually believed Rachel would base her voting decision not on strategy, but on who was messy. And then later, after a situation we'll Discuss In Rule 5, she convinced herself that it worked and she was proud, even though there was still no way Rachel was ever voting out Ashley. So I don't know how it worked, quote unquote, but that's the mind you're dealing with here, you know, and then something I mentioned in our why Catherine Lost podcast, when she was nominated up against Catherine as well, instead of trying to get people on her side, she just hung out with Catherine away from everyone else for most of the time. Rachel and Morgan even talked about it, saying, why isn't one talking to us? I don't understand. No, it was the nominees who didn't understand.

Ovie Kabir (33:34)

Yeah. And again, it comes down to basic game knowledge of how the game is run. And, you know, when you watch a season or watch any portion of it, it's the idea of, like, you need to garner those votes. And I think that at some point, with self preservation, I'm going to win, like her only form of strategy as it really, truly develops. I will win a competition to save myself. Yeah. And she talks about that where she says, no one's going to save me. I have to save myself.

David Bloomberg (34:02)

Julie Chen Moonves form of strategy.

Ovie Kabir (34:06)

Yes. And it was, you know, very apparent and to her credit, she did multiple times the cat who had nine lives. But it's not a winning strategy.

David Bloomberg (34:15)

No. Well, it's not strategy.

Ovie Kabir (34:21)

Strategy, but it's not a good one. No.

David Bloomberg (34:24)

Now, as we move on here. Kelly was not the only one who really wasn't made for Big Brother. Back at the end of August, Lauren agreed with Ava when she said, I don't have a brain that was made for Big Brother. I don't think my brain works the same way as some of these people's brains work. And I agree Lauren did not have that kind of thinking. She's a so called superfan who has been watching since she was a young kid. But even after all those years, she hasn't figured out the point of the game or the fact that you need to lie. Lauren, much like Kelly with other aspects of the game, never really learned that part, even though she should have known coming in. And indeed because of what she said pre game, I had high hopes for Lauren early on and she actually started the game off decently, agreeing with whatever anyone says, keeping her own thoughts to herself, just floating along while consciously playing the middle 100%.

Ovie Kabir (35:27)

I mean, I think early game to even middle game. I was very impressed. You and I both talked about it. The way Lauren was navigating herself into the house where she was part of conversations, she was in the wall of like when people were talking about things, but also never somebody were like we need to point at her and get her out or why is she in the room? It was more so, oh, Lauren's here. Let's work with Lauren in some shape or capacity. And we saw people also advocating for Lauren too, where we see Rachel trying to pull Lauren to her side. In many ways Lauren was kind of a form of a swing vote or not even swing vote, but like an HOH vote where even when she was hoh they knew other people had influence over her so they tried to talk her through things. And that was the thing is she was one of the few players in the house where you could discuss and sway her options if you had a reasonable conversation and argument for it. So midway through the game I thought Lauren was very impressive, but I think really what, what it amounts to is the killer instinct in the game where you need to strike, you need to be able to know when to take action. And we saw Lauren let the game unfortunately pass by her in a lot of crucial moments.

David Bloomberg (36:35)

Yeah, I mean she definitely does not have the killer instinct. She was just always so scared to, to talk to many different people and you know, when she had a conversation she didn't want to have, she'd be in the HOH room looking over here instead of looking them in the eye like you should do when you're having a normal conversation as a human. If Lauren had gone on her own, I was going to do the whole whole podcast facing away. You know, she. She had previously said she was playing the middle, but then it turned out she hadn't talked to half the house because she was scared or because she didn't want to or she was comfortable with the people she was with. When she became hoh and wanted to nominate Will, she admitted she hadn't talked a single word of game with him. Fast forward to this past week. And she kept hearing things about Morgan and Ashley from Vince, but she wouldn't actually talk to them herself until Tuesday night, which it was way too late by that time. She relied almost entirely on her final two deal with Vince and trusted him to be honest with her and lead her to the promised land, which was clearly not a wise thing to do. And she even acknowledged it to Mike Bloom, saying, I think that my game really, really did suffer from the decisions that he made. Even when I told him that those decisions were going to hurt my game, he continued to make them, which is very unfortunate.

Ovie Kabir (38:09)

And I think that's what impacts the way I review and look at her game almost with hindsight, knowing that the decision she made to kind of play that middle to work her way through the house, it wasn't that it was not a conscious decision. It was more of an inability to want to make waves in the house because like you mentioned, she was so worried about what her ripple effect would be that she wanted to make sure it was the easiest route. And it's confusing because you see somebody who was able to get power multiple times in the game and she was one of those players, but it didn't amount to anything because when she had the time to strike, it was, what can I do to ensure that there is no blood on my hands? Well, then at that point, you don't need to win power. You don't need to be in power positions. And you could play a game where you're playing lay low, which she was good at. She was not in danger. And then you just keep making more people upset with your inability to make decisions.

David Bloomberg (39:07)

Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, her incredible decis indecisiveness was a huge problem. She could have had like a mugger come to her on the street and say, your money or your life. And she would have been like, can I have some time to think about that, please? You know, she made comments at a couple points in the game where she seemingly took offense to others saying she was indecisive. But she admitted to Mike Bloom, I was definitely indecisive, but I don't think that was entirely bad of me to be indecisive. I see it as weighing out all of the options. Let's be real, it wasn't just weighing out all the options. She would go on for as long as she had before making a decision. And she still wanted help. In her first hoh. She had two nominees but needed a third and said, I'm just looking for one person to help me out and no one is willing to do that right now. Of course, by help me out she means be stupid and volunteer like Kelly. Guess what, Lauren, they aren't there to help you out. You won hoh, you make the nominations. But no, she literally told Rachel later, this is so hard. I just wish someone could tell me what to do.

Ovie Kabir (40:22)

And that level of dependency she had on Vince to me did not make as much sense, especially as a game kept going forward and forward because she really could see all her allies around her were getting picked up one by one by one. And we talk about the Riley decisions. We talk about the Catherine decision. Like, I mean, you're seeing all these things happen. One cause really, is Vince a big part of it? And you continuously believe in him, even though every other player is kind of telling you like, hey, girl, I'm telling you, like, I still go back to that room. I think it was in the storage room where Rachel is talking to her and telling her, hey, don't need to let this guy push you into decisions. You don't need to trust. And she got offended and she went to Vince and toll, Vince, this is what Rachel is saying about you. And I just. This game is where we've seen so many players play for other people. I mean, we go back to Preacher when we talk about was. I think it was Zach or. No, it's exact. It was. I'm forgetting the names already, but one of the players basically gave their game up for Lauren, essentially because they were like, I don't want her to go home. I don't want to use, oh, the power, that special veto power give up. Yeah. Oh, okay. We're seeing players give up their game. And I thought for her, Lauren, I was like, maybe she could be the, you know, manipulator. She can make people give up their games for her. But no, she ended it how she started. She gave up her game for somebody else.

David Bloomberg (41:46)

And the thing is, she didn't make Zach do it. He foolishly did it himself. You know, she didn't exert any power. She is not Morgan. She was not exerting any power. She didn't even know he had it until after he had made his decision. So, yeah, and then, you know, her indecisiveness wasn't just limited to when she was hoh or had power. It was any decision. When she won that veto and was considering using on Vince, she went back and forth so many times and literally back and forth. Back to Rachel, you know, fourth to Vince, back to Rachel, fourth to Vince. And then despite her previously telling Rachel that she, you know, wanted someone to tell her what to do during her hoh dimension, when Rachel did tell her not to use the veto or else Lauren ignored it, used the veto, and then was surprised by the consequences. But really, you said it. The ripple effect consequences were what she feared the most out of everything and everyone that she was scared of. She told Dalton Ross. I think my biggest weakness for sure was the kind of fear of not even necessarily upsetting people, but from a game perspective, upsetting the people that would come for me because of my actions. I think if I would have been more set in my ways and done what I wanted to do rather than really taking in each person's opinion, then I maybe could have gone farther. So she defended her indecisiveness to Mike Bloom but admitted she shouldn't have been so indecisive to Dalton Ross. She couldn't even make up her mind about not making up her mind.

Ovie Kabir (43:20)

And then they say they have no regrets of how the game is played. I know that's your biggest pet peeve over there. It's become, I think maybe a little of David has rubbed off on me because it's become my pet peeve. It's that game for $750,000, you know what you did wrong. If you do, you know, if you're aware enough, these players do they say, oh, this is where I went wrong. I wouldn't regret anything. You probably should.

David Bloomberg (43:45)

Probably should.

Ovie Kabir (43:46)

Because for somebody like Lauren, she had a winnable game. If she made certain decisions in which you had the autonomy, she had the ability. She was a player that was in the crux of the roads that just chose the wrong road to go down to. And that's the frustrating thing is seeing a player who has the ability to win the game or go even farther in the game because she went this far with very minimal, like, effort in forms of strategy. Really, you know, she. She. Her scheming and plotting was not a complex thing, but she was able because of her personality. How she maneuvered herself get very far so just a little bit more and she would have maybe been in the top final two.

David Bloomberg (44:24)

Yeah, yeah, but because, I mean, you mentioned this earlier because of these problems and more, Both of her HOHs were flops. She nominated people who are on her side, or at least not actively against her, and then she made excuses. After her first hoh, Lauren told Adrian, people were assuming I didn't want to get blood on my hands. And I'm over here, like, assuming you made it your whole mission as HOH to avoid rocking the boat as much as possible. There was no assuming. And then for her second hoh, she wanted to have an impactful week, but she was so scared about having another decision to make that she threw the veto, which allowed Morgan to win it. Meaning we ended up with Will going instead of maybe Morgan herself. Now, imagine how different the rest of Lauren's game would have been if she hadn't thrown that veto.

Ovie Kabir (45:17)

So different. I mean, we see one different players to be able to be up there. We see potential allies for her to work her way through there. And it also gives a point to show I'm making autonomy here. I've had many decisions in my game that I've chose to take the back seat or let somebody else get the blood. But now, when the moment matters most, I am now taking the helm. I'm here to be the Kingslayer. I'm here to win this game. Do you think Vince has told me how to play this game? No. I know how to take him out at the end. I mean, there's so many roads she could have taken. I mean, if she just choose. I mean, but that's the game, right? You choose when to strike and choose, don't you? And with Kelly, she didn't even know the game. She didn't know when to strike. And with Lauren, she just really chose the. The path of least resistance.

David Bloomberg (46:03)

Right. And. And then it comes back to, you know, to kind of wrap up Rule 1 here, it comes back to something I mentioned earlier when. When Lauren finally did talk to Morgan and Ashley on Tuesday this week, the problem I hinted at earlier about her not being willing to lie really came out because they repeatedly asked her for promises that she wouldn't nominate them if she won hoh. And she tried to dodge it every time, which made it clear to them that she would come after them if. If they saved her. So why would they want to do that? And yet she just couldn't bring herself to lie in Big Brother.

Ovie Kabir (46:50)

And they're not Your allies, you can go after them. You can use that. It's. It's. At this point of the game, no one's going to take it really personal. I mean, maybe they will in the portion of it, but after the game, they'll be okay with it. And as somebody who is a fan, I would hope that she would recognize. And that's what you signed up for, because she played a game where she really did not hurt too many people.

David Bloomberg (47:12)

Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (47:13)

Yeah.

David Bloomberg (47:15)

All right, well, we can move on to the second rule, which is definitely going to be a lot shorter because it says not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret. And, you know, considering the length of time we just spent talking about how neither of them schemed, implied and nearly enough, there isn't a whole lot to discuss in this role. But I have at least two negatives for Kelly and a positive for Lauren. For Kelly, her whole instigating BS was really over scheming, or it would have been if she had any clue what she was doing. But she was busted when she attempted it. Like Jimmy seeing her cornering people, throwing an opinion out there, and then coming back and claiming the person said what she was really saying. Now, I absolutely recognize this type of behavior because I had a couple employees who were like this. Years ago, the day it was announced I was going to be their new manager, each of them separately came to me and told me things about the other one. So they were having this little war there, and I kind of just nodded along, not knowing what the heck was happening. And then later I found out they took those nods and exaggerated them into telling other people I agreed with them and even saying that I had been the one who said it to them. So it was totally the same thing that Kelly was pulling.

Ovie Kabir (48:34)

Wow. Not you. I mean, you have great work analogies, but this one may be my favorite work story right here. I mean, you've been in. You've played Big Brother in your own workplace. You know how this works, David. Yes. I mean, we saw them not being able to keep their lives straight, trying to do so much here and thinking. I mean, I think it's just like the misruded understanding how the game is played that people won't fact check, people won't. You know, people will talk to one another. And this idea is like, you're thinking, they won't, they will. And she got caught up in lies after lies after lies.

David Bloomberg (49:10)

Yeah, exactly. And as the season went on, she complained, everybody thinks I'm a liar no matter what I do. She's the perfect example of the story of the boy who cried wolf. If all you do is lie, then, hey, guess what? People will think you're a liar because you are.

Ovie Kabir (49:28)

It's a long game. I know we do these comparisons a lot where we say, okay between survivors, but this is such a long game where your lines will catch up with you. On Survivor, but especially big brother, 99 days, people will cross check and there's nothing to talk about. And so when there's nothing to talk about, people are going to figure out things to talk about. And.

David Bloomberg (49:45)

Whoa.

Ovie Kabir (49:45)

What. What did Kelly say? You know, we have our Julie Chen blue vest. What did she say of the day? I think they had there. What did Kelly say of the day?

David Bloomberg (49:54)

Yeah. And just so people understand, because like five minutes ago we were talking about Lauren not lying. The kind of lies that Kelly told were not lies to help her progress in the game. Like, if Lauren had lied to Morgan and Ashley, if they had believed her, she could have moved forward in the game at their expense. Kelly's lies were like, just for fun. Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (50:19)

It's. It's wanting to cause chaos. And she knew she was causing chaos. That's right. It's like it's wanting to do that. And that's part of her whole, you know, game point. She's like, oh, well, if I make a man, I make a mad. She likes to do that. And it's when it's not game related, I mean, it just breaks again. That's why she is the antithesis of the rules.

David Bloomberg (50:38)

Right.

Ovie Kabir (50:38)

None of it goes towards it.

David Bloomberg (50:40)

Yeah. Now, Lauren, I don't think had any real issues with over scheming, but actually, as I mentioned, did serve as a good example of following this rule when it came to one area, and that is being in a showmance duo. In the pre. In her preseason interview, she specifically answered the question about being in a showmance by saying the goal is to win. So if a showmance will help her, will help that goal, she might do it, but she won't let it jeopardize her game. And then when Zach was crushing hard on her, she actually held on to what she said, which is incredibly rare. She helped to vote him out. And when Rachel later asked if she wanted to date him, she said she didn't know she wanted to focus on the game. So whatever else we have to say about Lauren's game, she at least did this right. Or I guess it could be that, you know, she didn't know if she wanted to date him and therefore she couldn't make a decision so she just voted him out instead.

Ovie Kabir (51:38)

I mean we say it's a formal strategy and this is part of it, but I think unfortunately it was just more so Lauren being Lauren inability to make that decision and we see that happen here. I will give her kudos a little bit to try to keep, you know, all her strategy, maybe only to Vince almost. I mean she caught games slightly with Ava and some other players as we moved on but as the game progressed she tried not. It became a detriment to her where she kept her scheming pawning a little bit more. Too much on an island here.

David Bloomberg (52:14)

Yeah yeah.

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David Bloomberg (54:20)

All right. Well, the third rule talks about the need to be flexible. And I don't even know how you can answer this question, but I'll ask it anyway. Was Kelly flexible?

Ovie Kabir (54:34)

Kelly was incredibly flexible because she decided to do whatever she wanted to do. No, she, she. In the in game wise, there was no flexibility because she was so chaotic. She had no concrete plans. And to be flexible, I'm going to add this addendum. We always say you have to be pressured to do it. To be flexible, you must have a plan A first. There was never a plan A for her, so there was no room to change what the plan would be because she was consistently changing her game regardless if a plan was working or.

David Bloomberg (55:05)

Yeah, I mean, that's practically, you know, you're practically reading my notes here, too. She. If you're going to be flexible, you have to have a starting point and she didn't have one. She was all over the place without a clue. Doing random things does not count as flexibility. I, I guess, you know, the way we could say it is she was inflexible in terms of being completely unwilling or unable to learn how to play Big Brother.

Ovie Kabir (55:32)

That's a good. The Kelly rule right there.

David Bloomberg (55:34)

Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (55:34)

You need to actually play the game to have a, A number associated with you on this. Yeah.

David Bloomberg (55:40)

Now, Lauren had a more typical type of problem with this rule. We already discussed how she said her indecisiveness stemmed from wanting to consider every option. But the problem was, it seemed even after always considering the option she chose was to do whatever Vince chose wanted to do, she hooked herself up to that final two train early on and was never willing to jump off. In fact, she was so stuck on that final two deal that she was blind to the obvious situation that Vince had multiple such deals. Even after all the discussion about Vince having his hand in so many pots and Vince having a number one and a number two and multiple other numbers and how clear it was that he was receiving direction from Morgan, she still clung to that final two like it was a deal written in her blood. Again, she's been watching the show since she was little and yet she still didn't understand the idea that alliances usually don't last all season long.

Ovie Kabir (56:43)

I think she would have been, if I have to say it's surprising, but probably the most inflex inflexible player we've had this entire season. She's. She's disqualified.

David Bloomberg (56:55)

Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (56:56)

The reason why I say this, because she had so many opportunities to choose and be change up her game when she was in the hoh, when she was making decisions or when she was going to use or not use a veto. She. Or when she saw all the information of this is how Vince is playing. He has this cheat mans with Morgan. Should I trust that me our relationship over so many chances she had to able to right the ship. And also we see players like Rachel and other players who kind of tried to talk to him being like, hey, let's work something out. Let's talk. Nothing there. So I find this inability to want to work with other people, change your plans when you are in positions of power and also positions where you have autonomy to actually be increasingly worse for her because she had more ability to do so.

David Bloomberg (57:45)

Yeah. No. Yeah. All right. Well, the fourth rule says players should not let their emotions control them. And once again, we have a situation where both Kelly and Lauren failed in different ways. Kelly's game was, of course, all emotion. No thought, no logic, just doing whatever came into her head. And also a lot of emotionally holding a grudge and refusing to work with people because of it. We already talked about people not wanting to work with her, but she also refused to work with people because of some slight real or imagined that she could never get over. Whether it was holding on to Vince, going against a deal in week three, or telling Keanu she would never work with Rachel because of something she'd said weeks earlier that didn't sit right with her. She held on to that grudge.

Ovie Kabir (58:33)

Yeah. And I think she. If there was going to say any form of strategy with Kelly, it would be this is the portion of it. Like her emotions controlled. How she wanted to play the game, who she wanted to work with, and if she felt good by somebody, I will work with you, but if I don't feel good with you, I won't work with you. I mean, it was all we talk about Ava being the aura master going into it, but truly she was the player who really was putting their aura and trying to feel people out because she had a good feeling. You know, it'd be great. I mean, and also she would get so upset when people weren't working with her final putting her on the block, even though she said, put me on the block. I mean, it's such. Kelly's such a chaotic player that these rules are hard to actually put her to.

David Bloomberg (59:21)

Yeah. I I mean, it's just, you know, f, f, F each time, even in the wall comp. I mean, I shouldn't have to be talking about rules in the wall comp. But even there, her motions took over. She was there long enough that she got bored and started messing around. Her falling from the wall because she was doing something stupid was the most on brand thing ever.

Ovie Kabir (59:49)

Yeah, it comes down to she's just happy to be there, David.

David Bloomberg (59:56)

And it we sometimes she wasn't even happy. She was just, you know, there.

Ovie Kabir (60:01)

I, I think she was ready to. Whatever result happened. It was, I think for her, kept fighting. And here's one, one thing I will say in her positive, truly, I think the spirit for her to fight week, in a week, I'll go on that block because we did see how much it impacted her. Her emotions also motivated her in a way where she didn't give up. I, I will give her that. Maybe she didn't shoot straight, maybe she was shot at herself, but she made sure that she kept fighting in and out. And it was kind of, you know, her own mistakes that she goes home for, obviously. But I think her wanting to prove other people wrong, her feeling slighted is what kind of motivated her to keep on trying hard in these competitions.

David Bloomberg (60:42)

Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, I think I'd agree with that. All right, well, we've already done it for something. Yeah, yeah. We've already talked about Laura not letting herself get into a showmance with Zach because she wanted to focus on the game. How do you think she did overall in this rule?

Ovie Kabir (61:00)

I want to say yes, I feel like she really kept an even keel with her emotions to not let showmances not kind of let her detract from other things. But I also do feel like, especially with the Vince relationship, like, I feel like when Vince got slighted, she got offended on his behalf. Like there were ungame related things. And I just go back to the Rachel Riley conversations when she basically tells her like, this guy's a bum and he's, you don't need to listen to him. And she felt so slighted that, oh, you're trying to, you know, talk like you know me. You try. You're trying to tell me how to play this game. You know, this level of I'm so frustrated at you. I think kind of manifested in her way, in other ways too, that where she was unable to make game moves that would benefit her game because she was so platonically emotionally involved with Vince.

David Bloomberg (61:54)

Truly. Platonically. Yeah. I don't think I really have much to add for her here. I mean, getting mad or wanting to do something because someone was a friend or whatever, those are all decisions, and we know how she felt about those. So it was probably easier to just not worry about the emotions because they would only cause more problems. Although I guess being scared is an emotion. And, you know, that was so prevalent in. In her game that there are literally whole social media accounts dedicated to just posting whenever she said she was scared about something.

Ovie Kabir (62:35)

That I guess that is an emotion. You know, the worry to, like, they'll not want to make certain moves. So, yeah, that's. It's. That's there.

David Bloomberg (62:42)

Not wanting to make certain moves, not wanting to be in the dark, not wanting to eat certain foods other than, like, chicken nuggets, you know, all of those things are scary.

Ovie Kabir (62:52)

So they very much can be. Yes, they very much can be.

David Bloomberg (62:57)

All right, well, we go to the fifth rule, which says players need to pretend to be nice and play the social game. And this is going to be another long one, folks. It is safe to say that Kelly completely failed in this one as well. She called herself irritating when she spoke to Julie after being evicted, but she told Rachel at one point a few weeks back that she's good at pretending to like people, except she really isn't, and people could see through it. She told Keanu she practiced fake crying, and then he told others, which kind of negates the point of fake crying because everyone knows you're faking, but she didn't know everyone else was aware, so she kept trying to use it. Kelly liked to play the victim. She would instigate something, people would get justifiably upset at her, and then she'd run and cry to someone to get attention. Or in the case like after Zingbot, she ran and fake cried in her bed and then kept pausing and looking around to see if anyone noticed. But quite hilariously, nobody ever did. She just sat there, fake crying, popped her head up, nobody was there, and nope, never happened. Now, the situation like this, the example like this that got the most attention and which was not exactly portrayed 100% accurately on TV was Winegate hammock gate hug. Now, I believe we discussed it when it happened, but just a brief recap, Rachel was annoyed at people giving fake compliments and made a comment about needing another drink. Kelly ran this to Vince and word got back to Rachel. She'd had it with Kelly's behavior at this point. And later, Kelly tried to join Rachel and others by the hammock, but Rachel said There's no room. Then Kelly tried to give Rachel a hug good night, but Rachel said no. Kelly pretended to have no idea why Rachel would be mad. I guess it's possible she actually was clueless. It's hard to say with Kelly. And she asked, is this because I haven't been cleaning? Which I guess does lean towards the clueless part. Rachel sarcastically said, yes, yes. That's the reason Kelly left and immediately ran up to the hoh room to cry to Vince and Keanu and tell her slanted version of the story.

Ovie Kabir (65:16)

Yeah, I think that it was very adamant or sorry. Apparent when we look at her interview with Julie. And she was very forefront that I irritated people. She knew it. She knew how her personality was. And I. Here's the thing is, I always. One of my pet peeves is when somebody says something kind of mean and they're like, well, I'm just being honest. No, sometimes, actually, sometimes they're not being honest and no one need to hear, like, it's not needed. And I feel like some people very value. And they look at that as, like, what this? They're like, oh, I'm straightforward. No, you're just being a jerk. And I think some people view their irritation as maybe more quirky. And I think for Kelly, when she got on people's nerves, she kind of looked at it as like, that's just me. And she did that a lot with every single player in the house. I mean, it was one of the primary reasons where people are like, we need to get her out. And it didn't want to work with Kelly. Or even when they worked with Kelly, she would still find a way to annoy them, her allies and everyone around them. So I. She didn't try to even hide it. She's still an F for me on this one. This is an angle because she doesn't try.

David Bloomberg (66:23)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, players did not buy Kelly's nonsense, but unfortunately, some viewers have, and they complained about her being excluded. But the fact is, Kelly excluded herself. Whenever anyone would try to bring her in, she would turn on them. She failed to form relationships and then got upset that she didn't have relationships. I mentioned in Rule 1 how she told Julie that people came to her, but no, people didn't come to her. They literally ran away from her. I. I posted a video today with a clip of Mickey hearing Kelly coming and jumping up to run out of the room. Keanu talked on the live feeds about pretending to be asleep when she. When he knew she was coming. Nobody wanted to deal with Her.

Ovie Kabir (67:09)

No. And it's. I mean, I can't think. I don't love talking about players on this rule so much in the fact that they're like, oh, they're like, they're annoying or do this stuff. But she knows this. She owns it. So I feel a lot better to be able to talk about this with her because it was very purposeful. And that's the strange thing. She didn't try not to be purposeful to kind of irritate people. And, you know, that's what you're gonna have. You have 16 people all in the house. You're going to annoy people. But she felt. It felt like she went out of her way to do things that.

David Bloomberg (67:40)

Oh, yeah.

Ovie Kabir (67:41)

And she was aware of that versus someone like Keanu, who does that. But I feel like he was. He. His illusions. It. But he doesn't.

David Bloomberg (67:50)

He's not aware of it.

Ovie Kabir (67:52)

So it's almost like a different thing where it's like, there's a difference between ignorance and stupidity. And right here, it's like, why are you trying to annoy people? Like, why do you want to do this in this game?

David Bloomberg (68:04)

Yeah. Like I said, she did it to herself. Even when someone would try to help her, as I discussed in Rule 1, she would turn on them. And again, Rachel is a perfect, perfect example. She tried to give Kelly tips on how to be more likable. Kelly took that and ran around saying, rachel said, nobody likes me, and no one has. Then I don't have any friends. Which, I mean, that isn't what Rachel said, though it is essentially true. And yet Rachel still tried. And Kelly kept turning on her at every opportunity. Kelly told Mickey about the whole grilled cheese debacle where Rachel was upset, which led to Mickey getting mad at Rachel. And when Rachel confronted Kelly, Kelly claimed, oh, it wasn't malicious. I thought you two could fix things, which is an absolute load of bs. Shortly after that, Rachel told her something else and made her promise she wouldn't tell anyone. Kelly promised, left the room, and literally within three minutes was telling other people. It just never stopped. In fact, it got worse because Kelly got very personal in her attacks behind Rachel's back, saying things like, I feel bad for Rachel's daughter. What a role model this is on the Internet forever. Her grandkids can watch her. And then also saying she wanted to send Rachel first to jury so she would be there alone on her anniversary. These were personal. Personal attacks against a woman who tried to help her.

Ovie Kabir (69:30)

Yeah, and it's. These are your potential allies. People you can work with from a game related point and they like. It's. We've seen this in the house. This has been a house where a lot of people been khaki, you know, get very catty with each other and say this and that. And I think it's just kind of strange because sometimes you see that when you're being wronged by a player where you're like, all right, you're gonna say this about this player because they wronged you. In Kelly's instance with the Rachel one is a weird thing going on there. And I don't know if it's because other people were kind of doing it too, so she felt like she could fit in with this fight. It doesn't excuse it by any means. But yeah, it's. It's really hitting your only car ride out your person who's like taking you out there, trying to help you out. And I think people have kind of forgotten portions of that because of the underdog story you've seen of Kelly. And then also this feeling of, oh man, people have mistreated Kelly because of she's on the block so much, etc. Etc. Rachel wasn't that person. There's a lot of players who didn't do that. And also a lot of it was game related because she's the one who put herself in that position. So hard to get mad at people, Kelly, when you're the one doing it to yourself and then still taking it out on the wrong people. I mean, she didn't try to hide this and she didn't play Big Brother and that's the issue. You know, we can go in circles about kelly with rule 1, 2, 3, so on. She didn't play the game of Big Brother. She was playing an entire different game. Yeah, because this season is the way it is. You don't need to play Big Brother to get far this season.

David Bloomberg (71:04)

Yeah, that's unfortunately true. And like you said, yeah, she just, she kept doing it. And it wasn't only about Rachel. She never stopped trying to play the victim. Just a week ago, Keanu called Kelly out on the way she was behaving with him and she stormed away from him angrily and talked about him as if he had been the one who did something wrong. But no, in this case, which is ran, it's rare, but no, Keanu was totally in the right and he called her out. And of course her then complaining about it got back to Keanu and she pissed off one of her few remaining people who might have been able to work with her.

Ovie Kabir (71:48)

Secrets don't stay secrets in this house. Like, that's the one thing. And it's funny because you have this group of people who are singular. Singular. A little. I can't even speak right. Individuals. Where's the individuals who aren't working with other alliances and players band together, but they always just eat themselves at the limb and Kelly was the core of that. No one could work with Kelly. And you literally see that she is third is being generous, but Vince's third person, even though he's putting them all up, he has Morgan, he has Lauren, and then his third alliance right there is Kelly. Or she thinks that even that won't snap her out of it and she just decides to turn on any others. Any. Every single other person we saw that week in a week out. I mean, I would love to say this is a reason why I sent her home, but it's just a combination of it.

David Bloomberg (72:41)

All right. Yeah. I mean, throughout the game, from the start, we saw her saying things that made no sense in a game that has such a big social aspect. She repeatedly brought up Zach's $10,000 win in a way that got back to him and annoyed him. She called the guys dumbbells. She called out alliances. Week or so ago, she saw Vince and Keanu playing pool and ran over to scatter the balls around while giggling like a toddler. Like, this is literally something a toddler would do. She is 30. Even at the beginning, Amy said, Kelly is annoying as bleep. She thinks she's so cute and funny. Will said earlier, she's crazy. Kelly is crazy. Ava responded. She cray cray. I told her, you kind of scare me. Will added, I sleep right across from her. There are times when I woke up and Kelly is just looking like the bleep. This bleep is crazy. Later in the season, Ava was lying by herself in the have not bed saying Kelly is bleeping nuts. And more recently, Kelly, who was supposedly in an alliance with Ava, got her so annoyed and on Ava's last nerve because she was just doing too much of this nonsense. In another conversation, Ashley said, I don't want to live with her in jury. And Will replied, it's hard enough living with her in here. Now the poor guy's gonna have to deal with that.

Ovie Kabir (74:02)

It's gonna be a fun jury segment when we see between the group of people we have there, Rachel, Will, Kelly, Lauren. I mean, games. I would say all four very different games.

David Bloomberg (74:16)

Yes. Yes. I. I think they'll be happy that Kelly Is there? Or the happy that Kelly is out, but not happy that Kelly is with her.

Ovie Kabir (74:25)

Yes.

David Bloomberg (74:26)

I. I mean, you know, we both talked about how she called herself irritating to Julie, but, you know, she said. She actually said she aimed to be irritating. This was on purpose. And we certainly saw this in the house. At one point, she told Vince that he could tell Keanu something to poke at him. And she said, I love poking. Vince replied, you love stressing people out. And Kelly admitted, I do love stressing people out. I can't poke in my regular life. It's frowned upon in society. Well, guess what, Kelly? It's frowned upon in Big Brother, too. And that just caught up to her in so many ways. Such as, as Ashley recently telling Kelly, me wanting you out had to do with the things you've said about me. And Kelly said, you know, playing the innocent or. Or just truly not knowing, like what. And Ashley said, go think of everything you've ever said. It's all gotten back to me. And then Ashley said, another time. Every time I start to feel bad for the girl, she does something to make me despise her. Kelly is not a sweet girl. She's not nice.

Ovie Kabir (75:37)

I think that puts it all together where you have people who would like to work with you, understand the position, strategic positions near the end game, that it might be beneficial for their game for you to be there. But because of everything you said, everything you've done, your unkind words, that is ultimately the reason where they're like, I still don't want her in this house.

David Bloomberg (75:59)

Right.

Ovie Kabir (75:59)

And that's a lot.

David Bloomberg (76:00)

Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (76:01)

Because you're making a decision for $750,000, you're like, still not screw her. I cannot stand her.

David Bloomberg (76:06)

Yeah. I mean, the big problem was Kelly decided to be an instigator to stir things up. She spread rumors, and, you know, before people began seeing who the problem was, her, she started some arguments. But Kelly being Kelly, she couldn't keep it to herself. So she told others, like Lauren, and it got all around the house. Then she couldn't understand why people called her an instigator. Much like earlier, she couldn't understand why people called her a liar. She even had a moment of clarity early on, asking herself, why do I instigate so much? It's like, all I do is cause problems, and I cause problems for myself. But as with the other things we've discussed, she didn't learn. She had that moment and then went right back to acting in her usual bizarre way. As she told Ashley at one point, what you see is what you get. I'm a loose cannon. That's how I am. I cause chaos. I do that in my regular life.

Ovie Kabir (76:58)

Life. I don't know. I. She says. You know what she said she is a business owner of multiple businesses, and I just can't imagine you can run businesses or work or do anything in the real world where you're this chaotic and you're making everyone around you upset. It seems like maybe this was something she's wanting to do for so long in that regard. Like she mentioned where she wants to frustrate people. Like, she can poke at people here because this is not the real world. It's just a game for $750,000.

David Bloomberg (77:32)

Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (77:32)

That's no big deal.

David Bloomberg (77:35)

Well, moving on from Kelly, Lauren told Dalton Ross, I think my biggest strengths in the game were the connections and relationships that I had in the house. I think that those connections and relationships took me very far and also played a part in the reason that I wasn't on the block until day 70, even with two HOH wins. So what do you think? Was that the primary reason she wasn't nominated until then?

Ovie Kabir (77:59)

I think, you know, her kindness, Honestly, with. When we talk about Lauren and talking about, like, how she was able to navigate in the game, we see that, okay, she was very well liked by most people, but also, it was. Some people felt very indifferent by her even near the end of the game because they didn't feel some form of strategy there. So. Yes, exactly. Got her far in the game. But I think it was, who do we have left now rather than, well, what do we do?

David Bloomberg (78:32)

I. Yeah, I agree. I was gonna say, I. I think the main reason she wasn't nominated till that point was less about her social game and more that she was mostly invisible. You know, there were so many other things happening as people targeted the bigger threats that. That she just. She didn't rise to that surface. Now, don't get me wrong. I do think she had a good social game in terms of being friendly with some of the people in the house, but it's not like it was the greatest we've ever seen. She was just nice and fair, you know, kind of like Zingbot said. But at least she didn't go out of her way to piss people off.

Ovie Kabir (79:11)

Yeah, she was a pleasant person, and we might be able to say that early on. The game for social game and charm. You know what? No, I'm gonna recant that. I don't know if it was a social game or trouble. I think it was ironically we have some house guests who just are just girl crazy or just fall in love with anything they see or they're just will sacrifice their games for people.

David Bloomberg (79:34)

I can't imagine who you're talking about.

Ovie Kabir (79:39)

I don't know like if that is truly a power of hers, a good social game or it's just her existing. If it wasn't Lauren it might have been somebody else and I feel like she never took advantage of those. I think I feel like a scoot social game is not just having a good personality and being kind great with other people. It's utilizing what relationships you have with people and do that with other people. And also we've talked about this that going put herself on an island. She really did not work with other people outside of a very specific few people never was flexible in changing that. So if your social game is so good you definitely that's a negative not working with other people on that portion or just even conversing with them talking about strategy. She didn't do that.

David Bloomberg (80:22)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One part that definitely was lacking in her social game was something we discussed in Rule 1 and I. Well you just mentioned she was friendly with some of the people in the house and like you said that's just not very smart. If she made it to the end it seems like she expected to try to win by just being nice. She even suggested as much to Vince. But she also said back in week three I'm so bad at talking to people that would have especially come back to bite her as she tried to get votes from people she hadn't talked to like Rachel, Will, Morgan, Ashley etc it ended up not mattering in part because her lack of relationships with some of those same people helped make it easier for them to vote her out now.

Ovie Kabir (81:10)

Exactly. And you feel I think a difficult thing when you go deep in the game is having relationships and how to vote people. We talked about Will last week where it hurt. It really hurt players to vote Will out. If there was one player that could sway the players to vote in a same way, probably Will. But he didn't really utilize you know his ability to really make him feel guilty. No one felt guilty about Warren really. Even Vince, his her closest allies. Like sad but like oh okay it's well one more step to 750 something had to happen like he's sad on the strategic reason where the person, I mean he might say he isn't but this person that he knew was like he could beat and also would still sacrifice her game is Gone. So that sucks.

David Bloomberg (81:56)

Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (81:56)

But no one felt bad about voting her out because she did not utilize any form of relationship to benefit her game.

David Bloomberg (82:02)

Yeah. Okay. We could go to the sixth rule, which says not to be too much of a threat. Threat. Kelly, I feel like, went through kind of a cycle with her threat level early on. She quickly became a comp threat because of her repeated wins, even if they weren't nearly as impressive as they seemed on paper. Then she became so annoying that people knew she wasn't a threat to win and could be ignored in favor of worrying about others. I remember saying when Rachel won HOH that a downside for me was Kelly would be safe because she'd slipped into that spot of not being the same threat level as some of the others. But then that all flipped back around. Ashley and Morgan talked about how everyone knew they could beat Kelly at the end. So that meant everyone would be tempted to take her to Final two, but then that would make things difficult for them to get there. Meaning it made sense to evict her now. Now I know a number of viewers maybe saying, wait, if anyone can beat her at final two, shouldn't everyone want to bring her in? Theory, yes. But that's where the second part comes in. It takes away a potential spot they could be fighting for. They would have to work around Kelly while also hoping Kelly herself didn't win HOH because she would definitely be coming for them. So in that weird way, she went from being a threat to not being a threat to being a threat because she wasn't really a threat.

Ovie Kabir (83:34)

Wholeheartedly agree. I think when we talk about this, for one being a threat, we have to not think of it as a threat to win the game because it can be that by a threat to your game as a player's pov. And these players look at Kelly, right before was a pawn to put up there when we have three options. But now it's like, okay, if I mix her, I'm probably going home. Or if she. She has the ability to win these competitions, especially in that house. That's like very like, it's skewed one way. She's still in the house. And Keanu, you have a really strong level. These people are going to win these competitions right here. It becomes such a threatening level end game. Because one, I think that's even scarier than a player who's going to win the game. It's a player, you know who's not going to win the game, who can win competitions because it will take you out as a potential person, and maybe you fancy your chances against somebody else where they're like, okay, we'll take each other. We know we need each other. Versus with Kelly, who is she going to take? She'll take anybody she wants to take any. She's a enigma, chaotic threat. Her. Her threat level is probably the strongest amount of anyone left at that point.

David Bloomberg (84:41)

Yeah. I mean, you know, we don't know who she thinks she could be. Morgan and Ashley, we're talking about it. And, you know, Ashley thinks that she might. Kelly might believe she can beat Ashley. But even so, you're going to take that risk that. That Kelly's gonna win and take you along. I mean, why would she do that? She'd rather take her pal Ava. Who cares who wins? You know, let's just have fun. So, you know, and someone like Morgan knows she's never taking her. Oh, yeah.

Ovie Kabir (85:11)

Wholeheartedly. I do think that Kelly would have taken Ken. I think she would have if Connor was down there. And she's just, I'm gonna take you. We went through it all together. Let's. Like, I think she's playing a game as a big middle finger to everybody else at that point. And it was like, how can we make everyone else mad if both of us aren't here?

David Bloomberg (85:28)

You. Yeah. Now, there was another factor in how much of a threat she was, which was she was in that sort of alliance with Lauren and Ava. And I say sort of because you couldn't exactly count on either Kelly or Ava to do anything strategic. You know, someone might touch her arm, you know, Ava's arm, and there goes that whole plan. But they did hang out together and were seen as a trio by the others. So if they had decided to evict Keanu, that would have left that trio in there and given them an opportunity to actually put up a fight and possibly take control of the game. So for that portion, it wasn't Kelly in particular who was the threat. It was that combination of the three.

Ovie Kabir (86:14)

The potential. The potential was there right now.

David Bloomberg (86:17)

As for Lauren, she was, of course, also a part of that trio and therefore threatened that way. But. But by the time of the second eviction, that trio was already no more. Still, it was very clear that Lauren was on the other side of the Vince tug of war. She pulled one way on Vince, while Morgan and Ashley pulled the other way. So far this week, Morgan had won every match. But there's only one way to be certain that Lauren doesn't have a comeback, and that's to get rid of the Competition.

Ovie Kabir (86:49)

Yeah. And I think that all of that together. And I still think you worry that maybe she might have some friends in the jury eventually. There's a potential for Lauren to craft a good story where she can play the role of, hey, I didn't upset people, and you upset a lot of people. So she is the only player in that house. And I think for a bit too, knew right beforehand she wasn't on the block. Also, they had to push to get her on the block as well, too. So there were parts of her threat level that were kind of cheap and it kind of went down from there.

David Bloomberg (87:24)

Yeah, Yeah. I. I do think there was at least some social aspect to it, or at least it looked that way. It's hard to know exactly what was going through Morgan's mind, but a few times we saw her getting upset in a way that I'm just gonna say looked like jealousy. When Vince spent what she considered to be too much time with Lauren. She even saw them having fun on the HoH screen one time this week and got visibly upset and decided for sure Lauren had to go.

Ovie Kabir (87:55)

Yeah, I mean, there's. There's that aspect to the jealousy portion of it. I mean, when you start to visualize yourself, get to the end, and you start seeing all these other players, you start to worry. Right. You start to worry which allies of yourselves will align yourself with them. I mean, for Morgan, too, the only person that can maybe sway Vince to do something that she didn't want him to do was Lauren. So, I mean, that becomes for her game, such a huge threat. And I think it's the irony of that for Lauren, she could not see that. She could not see. Or maybe she did kind of see, but she didn't believe it. She, for whatever reason, thought Vince would always choose her first or final two was so much more important. But you see what's happening in front of.

David Bloomberg (88:38)

Right. Yeah. Now, even before all of that going all the way back to July. Ah, those sweet days of July, before we knew what was going to happen this season, Ashley had Lauren clocked. Amy, remember her? You should. I mentioned her earlier. Had mentioned how Lauren was sweet, but Ashley replied, don't get it twisted. She's sweet, but she's smart. She's a super fan. She's laying low on purpose. And I do think Lauren was smart. Certainly a threat to win comps. I mean, she destroyed the two Blockbuster champs there. Destroyed them in the blockbuster.

Ovie Kabir (89:17)

She did.

David Bloomberg (89:18)

I mean, it wasn't even anywhere near close. If. If Lauren hadn't been in that comp. It would have taken the whole two hours for the other two to finish it. But anyway, over time, the main thing was though, that she clearly became a threat to Morgan's ability to control Vince and therefore the game overall.

Ovie Kabir (89:38)

If Morgan wins this game, like if she gets down, I think one of her most impressive moves will actually be to isolate Vince and take out Lauren. We were really seeing her really go into utilizing her ability in the game and striking and I feel like that's my the reason why I'm bringing it up too is I feel sad knowing that I feel like Lauren could have been able to be that person because she had the opportunity and she just needed the instinct, the killer instinct to take that strike. She was like, let's get Morgan out. Let me make sure I isolate. And she is in a great position and she had the opportunity to do so.

David Bloomberg (90:16)

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Ovie Kabir (92:46)

Are the ones who get it done.

David Bloomberg (92:51)

Okay, we can move to the seventh rule which says to trust almost nobody. Kelly basically never trusted anyone. So I, I don't really. I. I don't have anything to say about here, her here, do you?

Ovie Kabir (93:04)

I mean, I think the only thing I would say is that the idea that she would give herself up on the block would get trust with people, and that's where she just kind of went wrong in so many ways. Inability to understand how the game is played. But she thought that you could curry favor that way and it just didn't work out.

David Bloomberg (93:19)

Yeah. All right, we'll move quickly to Lauren, who is exactly the opposite because she put absolute 100% full trust in Vince to a ridiculous extent, even when she saw it was hurting her. As she told him, this week, I committed myself to this final two, and every decision you have made makes my game 20 million times harder. Yet she still stuck it out. She even said after she was evicted, I really trusted his word whenever he told me I was safe week after week. So I continued to give him that loyalty. Maybe that was silly of me. Yes, Lauren, it definitely was silly of you.

Ovie Kabir (93:56)

You so silly and it's so frustrating because you see what you're doing wrong. Everyone's told you what this is. I mean, this man is cheating on his actual relationship, but he's also cheating with. On you within your, your, your, your alliance. You know, he's so close with Morgan and she's trying to get you out like she knows she didn't. Who's in the middle of that, Vince. So how can you not think that, hey, the person I trust my life with in this game, he is closest to the person who's trying to gun for me. Maybe he has some form of idea what's going on about this. I mean, and you couldn't. And we see it from the safety chain when it goes back to Rachel, essentially when the. When she went out and it was that competition where Vince convinces Lauren to pick Morgan. Or was it the opposite of whatever.

David Bloomberg (94:44)

No. Yep, you were right.

Ovie Kabir (94:45)

It was Laura. Lauren to pick Morgan. I mean, you play this game completely for him and you see him cut you back and forth, and you also have a plethora, a whole resume of seeing how he's treated each of his allies, caught them out one by one by one, and how he's cut you too, Riley. Catherine. I mean, at some point, it's just such. It's not ignorance. It's like blinders, you know, you're putting in front of your eyes.

David Bloomberg (95:09)

And yeah, I, I think Lauren looked at the safety chain as a win for her. Even though she had to do what he wanted, he still picked her before Morgan. And I think she was like, oh, see, that shows that I'm higher. In his mind. What it really shows is he knew if he picked Morgan, Morgan would not pick Lauren next. But he knew he could convince Lauren to pick Morgan next. So that was the best way for him to get his two closest allies. He even said that to get them forward in the game. And she just didn't realize that.

Ovie Kabir (95:42)

That it's impressive. I mean, Vincent, his game is something we'll dissect eventually, but it's impressive that he's been able to juggle these, Both these players and make them as loyal as they are to him. And I think with Lauren more so than anything, and it's. I don't know if Vince was there, her game would be the same of whether she would do this with somebody else. But I wish, you know, we could seen a Lauren who wants to make these moves and not trust somebody wholeheartedly.

David Bloomberg (96:10)

Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, you know, go continuing with that trust. And particularly pertinent to this rule, Lauren told Julie after being evicted, if I went home because I was too trusting or had too much faith in people, I guess that's a better way of going home. No, that is a terrible way to leave Big Brother because it means you didn't know how to big. How to play Big Brother and you should have.

Ovie Kabir (96:38)

Oh, that's funny. Yeah. I mean, no, it. Again, I try not to think too much into what players are saying to Julie right afterwards. It's like a coping mechanism for them. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's unfortunate that they. She wouldn't play it basically exact same way she would do and she has no regrets. You should, you should have some regrets. Yeah.

David Bloomberg (97:00)

Okay, we can. We're at the jury now, so we need to discuss the jury phase in appendix A. In some ways, we've already covered much of this by discussing how Kelly would have been easy to beat in final two, but made things more difficult to get to final two. While Lauren could have theoretically been more of a serious opponent to some of them because of her social connections. But I really just don't think that played much of a role. Almost all of the reasons they were voted out were in game not jury related 100.

Ovie Kabir (97:32)

I don't think anyone was worried about, you know, getting a level of jury votes from any of the players there. And I also think maybe there's a world Vince has thought that he knows he wants her in the jury because that's a vote probably for him. But outside of that, I mean, he.

David Bloomberg (97:54)

Wanted to face her at the end. You know, that was his big plan. That was the main cause of all the back and forth was, you know, that Morgan was messing up his plan to face her and beat her at the end. And so, yeah, he didn't even want her in the jury. He wanted her in the final two with him. But, you know, the best laid plans. Now, I, I did notice Morgan's goodbye message to Kelly really heaped on the BS about how she had to get Kelly out because Kelly was so scary in mental comps. I have no idea how Kelly will vote in the end. I mean, she may just flip a coin. Nobody knows. But hey, it's worth a try if you're Morgan.

Ovie Kabir (98:39)

Yeah. And I think if there's a player that's going to work well for, it's probably Kelly. This idea that I think she craves within the game, at least some form of validation of how she played the game or, you know, how she struggled through it. Unsure if she will receive that much for jury house. So maybe that'll be the last, like leaving message she'll get about that. Maybe that will convince her.

David Bloomberg (99:04)

Yeah. All right, it is about time to wrap things up here for these two. So what are your final thoughts about Kelly and Lauren?

Ovie Kabir (99:11)

Wow. What a season we've had with players that played in two different identical ways where we have a player in Kelly who decided that she does not need a rule book for big brother and she will play the game with her own strategy, meaning no strategy. I mean, she is defaulted. She is na in all of our segments, basically because it's so difficult to judge her because the game she wanted to play was pure chaos. Unfortunately, in most things it was not as entertaining to watch because it was just, oh, why are you doing this? But we saw with Lauren, we saw a strategy blossom that looked really incredible where she was playing the middle. He was trying to do different portions of it, work with different people to realize, wait, actually, no, she's not. She is just not making a decision at all. She can win competitions, she can have a social game, but she can do nothing with it. So for two reasons, these people went home. One person for not playing the game and one person for deciding that they will only play the game halfway through. So both of them. Not the worst. Saddest to see them go.

David Bloomberg (100:12)

Yes. Well, we discussed several times how Kelly and Lauren managed to break the same rules yet played very, very different games. As you said, Kelly came in absolutely clueless and, you know, had never watched it despite claiming she had. Lauren came in as a supposed super fan who should have known what to do, yet both of them had problems actually taking action. Kelly admitted she didn't even know what a good game is. She just wanted to come in with fresh ideas which she didn't realize weren't fresh at all. They were actually very stale and rotten. And there were good reasons. Nobody did things she tried. I gave her a rating of 1 on a scale of 1 to 10 in our pre preview podcast in predicting how well she would follow these rules, and I was on the mark. We may not be good at winner picks, but apparently I at least got a, you know, absolute worst pick here. She came in with zero understanding of the game and over 70 days later she leaves, still having zero understanding of the game. Because not only did she enter the house with zero knowledge, she was never interested in learning. Instead, she was the embodiment of chaos in the form of an overgrown five year old. Her social game was as bad as her strategic one. And. And she didn't know how to act around people doing bizarre things for no reason. Playing the victim when caught. As she told Ashley at one point, what you see is what you get. I'm a loose cannon. That's how I am. I cause chaos. I do that in my regular life, which I mentioned earlier. I'm sure nobody likes it when she does that in real life any more than players liked it in the house with them or we liked having to watch it. Ashley was spot on in saying, every time I start to feel bad for the girl, she does something to make me despise her. Kelly is not a sweet girl. She's not nice. Between the complete lack of strategic ability and terrible social skills, Kelly should have been out week one. But she kept staying. Not because of any strategic or social ability, but because of two minute carnival games. At one point she said, I'm genuinely not here to win. I'm here to make a name for myself. She made a name for herself, all right. It's just not a name I could say on this podcast because there might be children listening. Lauren, on the other hand, did seem like a sweet young woman. Unfortunately, as she herself said, just being nice doesn't win you Big Brother. Which is something she should have known coming in. But then she also should have known she would have to talk to people and, you know, look them in the eye and not be scared of everything you think might go bump in the night. Yet here we were with her having all of those issues. Plus, of course, the issue of trusting one person, Vince, 100%, despite him repeatedly showing that he didn't deserve it. I mentioned that Lauren told Julie if I went home because I was too trusting or had too much faith in people, I guess that's a better way of going home. And again, I say no. That just means she didn't know how to play. And she should have because it was very clear that Vince was a puppet for Morgan. Despite his claims to the contrary, he clearly did not value her final two the same way she did because he had so many others. Even with Morgan winning out, Lauren had clearly become a threat to Morgan's future ability to control Vince and the game overall. Morgan was going to do everything in her power to get rid of Lauren and keep her top spot in the game. Both Kelly and Lauren had huge holes in their games. Well, Kelly's whole game was a hole, really. But the thing is, both of them should have known better. Kelly purposely came into the game with zero knowledge or understanding. She should have watched the show beforehand. She should have gained some understanding. She had all sorts of excuses, but it comes down to her being her own fault. Lauren did watch the show for many years and considered herself to be a big fan. Yet she didn't understand that you need to lie in Big Brother. You need to talk to people in Big Brother. Maybe she thought those that when she actually got into the house, she'd be able to do those things. I don't know. All I know is she didn't. While Kelly was obviously much, much worse in one night. We said goodbye to two players who couldn't handle some of the most basic Big Brother skills and that is why Kelly and Lauren lost.

Ovie Kabir (104:55)

Week in and week out. I always say you outdo yourself, but seamlessly tying both of them in together, it's impressive. Let's see if you can do that for a potential 5D.

David Bloomberg (105:07)

Yeah, yeah. We will have our predictions in a moment after a few other pieces of information. In addition, if you want our full thoughts, we are all over social media where we discuss Big Brother and other topics.

Ovie Kabir (105:21)

Yes. Don't forget we are very active on a number of different social media platforms where we discuss Big Brother and other topics. Survivor coming very soon on Twitter bluesky and Instagram. I'm at Ovkabir and on TikTok I'm Ossman Boy. But David is truly all over the place. But you can track him down in a few different ways. You can find all his various accounts through his link tree at linktree David Bloomberg, where you can find him directly on Blue Sky. It's at David Bloomberg.

David Bloomberg (105:44)

Yes, I encourage anyone to come over to Blue sky for not just your Big Brother discussions but also your Survivor discussions. We need more Survivor people to move over. Once people start moving, it'll be like Big Brother. A whole bunch more will and that's just on Blue Sky. On the video sites Tik Tok, YouTube and Instagram. I've been posting three or more videos per day, usually where I'm at David Bloomberg tv. They are a combination of thoughts from the episodes, lots of live feed clips, some looking ahead to Survivor 49, occasional musings about the Traders Ireland. So I've mentioned that I'm over 50,000 subscribers on YouTube and over 13,000 on TikTok. So thank you to everyone who's subscribed in either place. Now, speaking of Survivor 49, Jessica Lewis and I already did our preview podcast discussing all of the players and so you should definitely seek that out. We will be back on Saturday recording a special why Blank loss 10th anniversary podcast with Rob dropping by. And so if you want like behind the scenes info and how things have changed over the years, it's just, you know, hopefully it's just going to be a fun podcast where we talk about stuff like that. Then of course a week from now we'll be starting off with the first Survivor why Blank Lost of the Season. Plus I was back on the Trade, our podcast talking about the traders Ireland episode 9 and I will be hosting the Trader for episodes 10, 11 and the finale next week as well. It's going to be a very busy week for me. Speaking of a busy week, we should discuss what our plans are for this podcast as well. The one you're actually listening to right now. In past seasons we have typically included the fourth place player in our final y blank one podcast. With the final three this season though, they're getting rid of the fifth place player on Wednesday and then the fourth place player on Thursday and then Sunday is the finale. So depending on the scheduling, we will either record a podcast for fifth and fourth probably on Saturday and then the winner and other two sometime around Tuesday or Wednesday or we will end up talking about all five in the final. Why Blank one podcast that'll come out a few days after the Sunday finale.

Ovie Kabir (108:21)

Yeah, we have trying to figure out schedule wise if we're going to see all those people would love to break it down but those groups of ones, I mean it's going to be a long podcast either way. You'll get a lot of information from all of us and yeah, I'm excited for regardless of how we do it.

David Bloomberg (108:40)

Yes, yes. So just keep your eye out. You know, if you subscribe, which we'll talk about later. Hopefully most of you are subscribed anyway. But if you subscribe or you keep an eye on YouTube then and social media, we'll talk about what we're doing. All right, now it's time for predictions. As always, I wrote up these before the hoh comp I as I wrote them I believed it would be the type of comp that Keanu could win. And then the question was, well, what can he do? I figured he would put up Ashley and Ava on the block because he doesn't like the way they've played. He said as much as and I predict Ava will head out the door on Wednesday. So do you want to talk about Wednesday first and then we'll talk about after that?

Ovie Kabir (109:29)

Yeah, I mean I think we can talk about. I think my prediction is give me finally I want my Ava HOH for pure chaos. A player who should supposed to be going home and we see some form. We see our Vince slash Morgan touch the block in some shape or form. Maybe a Keanu in there. Ultimately though, I think we see Morgan go home this week. That is.

David Bloomberg (109:54)

That's crazy to me. That is absolutely crazy.

Ovie Kabir (109:57)

Everyone sees her on there. They think they're like what do we need to do?

David Bloomberg (110:01)

But I don't see Vince turning on her. I don't see Ashley turning on her. So would just it Would it would need to be such a specific set of circumstances.

Ovie Kabir (110:11)

I. I feel it. I feel that we're gonna see that happen. Our second person going home, I think, is my winner pick. I think Ashley is not surviving between this to the final three. I think you're going to pick. Keanu is winning this game.

David Bloomberg (110:24)

Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (110:25)

I think you might. You might have the accolades here, David, because I think you're gonna pick my winners.

David Bloomberg (110:30)

I mean, that would be such a mixed emotion, you know, like, yay, I got the winner pick, right? Oh, God. It was Keanu. I. Yeah. I mean, a few thoughts about the finale then. So I've already talked. In my opinion, Morgan is in the best position. The question is, as you said, can she make it there? If she doesn't, I think she beats anyone. If she's there.

Ovie Kabir (110:54)

Yeah.

David Bloomberg (110:54)

If she is not there, then we have a few other people to talk about. I don't think Ava can win. I don't think Ava can beat anybody. Vince almost can't win. He might. I mean, I believe he beats Ava.

Ovie Kabir (111:11)

Yeah.

David Bloomberg (111:12)

I believe he could potentially beat Keanu or Ashley based on what I'm about to talk about with Keanu and Ashley. With Ashley. So her plan is to reveal she's a lawyer and she went to Georgetown and she's really smart and she's been playing dumb this whole time. That's great. She has, like two minutes to get that all out and explain her whole strategy that she has hidden this whole time. I don't know if she can do it. In Survivor, she would have a whole tribal council back and forth to explain her game, and she still might not be able to. It is a risk. It is a risk that I talk about in the rules about. It's great to hide your threat level, but if you make it so low, it might be that you can never win the game. And she may be in that spot because I just don't know that she can convince them all they have thought for by that time, two and a half months, almost three months, they have thought she's this dummy and she's going to have two minutes to convince them that she's not. Then you have Keanu. Keanu, I already talked about. You know, Julie said, oh, he has this great resume it. As much as I hate it and as much as she's wrong, some people will look at the easy thing and say, oh, he won a lot of comps. Because there are casuals out in the real world who say it. There are casuals in Big Brother who say it. Look, he saved himself when it mattered, I suppose, but it. That's not playing Big Brother. I mean, Kelly could certainly vote for him for that reason and maybe others. The thing that I think is more likely to win him the game is that he will be. He will speak to what he did with such absolute certainty that it will make the others question reality, because he will not be speaking in reality. He will be delusional, as he has been the whole time, and he will say, I did this. I did this. I did this. I controlled this. I controlled this. In Survivor, someone from the jury could say, hold up there, Buster. You didn't do that. I did that. And she did that. And she did that. You don't get that in Big Brother. Nobody from the jury, they don't get to talk. They get to ask one predetermined question. Maybe, you know, let's say that he claims he did something, and Ashley's on the jury, and she's like, oh, this screwball. I already told him he didn't do that. Okay. She doesn't vote for him. But unless it was hashed out in the jury roundtable ahead of time, nobody else is going to know. And you never know what Keanu is going to claim. So whoever's against, whoever doesn't want Keanu to win, if they're in that jury for the jury roundtable, they need to make sure they convey just how delusional Keanu is for that to get through to people. So. So I honestly think he could beat a few people based on pure delusional ability. Pure delusional storytelling.

Ovie Kabir (114:23)

I think, yes, your. Your version of how he wins, I think is correct in a lot of ways. I do think, regardless of. I think people already feel like he has that momentum, the way he can win. And I do think, like. Like, for them, again, our reality is different than the House kiss reality. Right. And it's. I don't even know if he needs to give Min some that much. I truly think he is a front runner to win it where he's been. So I think him getting in all the arguments where everyone actually benefits him in a way, because he's looked at as, like, the lovable brother to a lot of these players, where it's like, we fought, we clashed, but that's my person, and I think that's how they're going to view it. I think the biggest thing that's going to be most interesting is how does Rachel like, I think if Ashley's at the end, if she convinces a jury that she talks really well and which I wouldn't be surprised. She does. I think she has a good story she can tell. But to your point can she get that out quick enough? I'm unsure what the format it has. Does Rachel advocate for Ashley over Keanu or vice versa? Because I think she has a connection with Rachel Ashley. But then also I think there's a weird relationship between Keanu and Rachel where she's like. Like hey I my prodigy or that's the way he'll frame.

David Bloomberg (115:40)

Yeah.

Ovie Kabir (115:42)

So it's very interesting to see. I think Morgan has the best shot right now to win if she's at the end. I think Keanu is probably the second to me because I don't know if he if Vince beats him out. I think Vince has burnt so many people. I don't think Kelly's ever voting for him. I don't know if Will is voting for Vince. I so tough I think especially to how he treats the judges alliance too potentially right we can see there but it's a dynamic one. I just think the only person who can't beat anybody is Ava. Honestly I don't think she's. She's dead in the water right now at this point.

David Bloomberg (116:16)

Yeah. It would be funny if Vince ends up winning because of the judges alliance which was an alliance he never even wanted to join or stay loyal to. He was kind of forced into it and it would be hilarious if he wins because of that 100%.

Ovie Kabir (116:31)

He's been trying to not work with them from the very get go essentially. Yeah, it would be and I think it would be very interesting to see where how Morgan goes if she doesn't make it to the end because I can really see Morgan be I'm supporting you Vince. Or it could be very bitter. It could go back and forth. So a lot of dynamic and we'll find out a lot more at the end of this week. But as we wrap up I want to encourage people to check the RJP Patron Program at robhasawedsite.com Patreon Rob has several only patron podcasts for Big Brother plus other perks like the Facebook group and Discord. You can help support shows like ours and everything on the network by becoming a patron at Rob has a website.com.

David Bloomberg (117:13)

Patron and make sure you're subscribed as I mentioned earlier to all of the RHAP podcasts by going to weknowbigbrother.com or even better yet we know realitytv.com so that you make sure you're still getting the Survivor related why Blank Loss podcast and of course all the other ones as well. Well you can select your podcast service of choice and just go from there.

Ovie Kabir (117:39)

And finally, we want to thank Scott St. Pierre and Jessica Sterling, the whole RJP and reality TV wrap ups behind the scenes team for all the work they do editing and posting everything else. We really appreciate everything they do to get our voices from our microphones to your ears. Thank you for everyone for tuning in this week. We had a long episode, I know, but I hope you enjoyed it. We had a lot of things to cover. Let us know your thoughts. Are you sad? Are you happy with Kelly and Lord and their game? What did we get wrong and what did we get right?

David Bloomberg (118:05)

Stop encouraging people to claim we got things wrong. We don't get things wrong. We know Big Brother. We've talked about this.

Ovie Kabir (118:12)

I open. I open the floor because usually they agree with us. But I love hearing the other thoughts because I want to see what they got wrong. I want to see their opinions of how wrong they are.

David Bloomberg (118:24)

Hop onto my Tik Tok. You'll see lots of people who get things wrong, let me tell you.

Ovie Kabir (118:28)

True.

David Bloomberg (118:28)

That is true. Well thank you of course OVI for another great episode. A nice long one here. You know the two of us will see everyone in either about a week or a week and a half, or both if we see everyone in a week. You could see me and Jessica and Rob in a couple days and then a week and you can find us on social media in the meantime. So until then, talk to you soon. Bye.

Ovie Kabir (118:58)

This is why blind.

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