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A
This episode of Rob is a Podcast is presented by 20th Century Studios. Send help from the twisted mind of Sam Raimi, director of the Evil Dead and Drag Me to hell starring Rachel McAdams and Dylan O'.
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Brien.
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A
It's a new film that begs the question, what would you do if you were stuck on an island with your terrible boss? Do not answer if you work at Rob as a podcast, okay in paradise HR can't hear you scream or only in theaters in 3D on January 30th.
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A
Hey Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to.
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B
The big man up north.
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A
And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's Unlimited Wireless for $15 a month.
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D
Now you don't even need to wrap it.
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A
Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.
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B
Of $45 for a three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new.
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Customer offer for first three months only.
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Speed slow after 35 gigabytes if network's busy, taxes and fees extra.
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B
See mint mobile.com. Hi everybody and welcome back to the coverage of the Amazing Race 38 here on RHAP. My name is Mike Blume. The finish line has been crossed. The metaphor of confetti has rained down, but we are certainly not done raining down podcasts about upon these lovely Big Brother alum lived it all. They went on a true European adventure and we are so happy to get the opportunity to speak with them to get their thoughts after the season on everything we wish we'd seen and everything we did see go down over the past few months. Of course, I'm not alone. This would not be an Amazing Race podcast without the great Jessica Lee. Jess, how are you?
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E
I'm doing great, Mike. Very excited. We don't usually do a lot of deep dives after the season, but this was such a great season. I don't know how we could not do it.
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B
And how could we not start with this power couple? We got to talk with them a little bit on Thursday following Their unfortunate elimination. But that was just a slice. And we want the whole pizzie. We are greedy. So thrilled to welcome in for their official deep dive on the amazement 38, Izzy and Paige.
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D
Oh, I mean, we got some great apisy here tonight.
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C
Okay. Oh, my God. Thank you for having us, Mike.
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B
Oh, my God, we're so happy to have you. I mean, this has been, like, a real cause for celebration of the two of you. Obviously, you got married a couple of weeks ago. Something we'll get into. Izzy, we are recording this on your birthday, so happy birthday.
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D
Thank you. I'm sick in the head. You know, we know that. Like, I'm talking. I'm doing this on my birthday very happily, like, exactly.
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B
As long as you're enjoying what you get to do. And, Paige, people may not know this, but you have recently gotten the Broadway gig.
- [03:20]
C
Yes. Yeah. So Titanique just announced that we're going to be opening at the St. James Theater on Broadway this spring. So really, really thrilled to make my Broadway debut with the show that I've been a part of for so many years now.
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B
Oh, my God. It's you and Frankie Grande making your brother me.
- [03:37]
E
True.
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D
And Tommy Bracco is in Titanique.
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B
Tommy Bracco as well. Yeah. They were all in Titanique as well. The big brother Broadway pipeline is just growing thicker and thick by the day.
- [03:48]
D
Yeah.
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C
Yeah. I love it. No, I. Frankie and I were actually. We worked together before Izzy ever applied for a big brother. So, yeah, he was like, our one connection to the world before we do. It's true.
- [03:59]
D
I told Frank. Now I'll say it, because it's been years past, but Frankie was the only person I told I made top 50 in casting.
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C
Yep.
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D
We were at a party. I was like, frankie, I gotta tell you this. So, anyway, so, yeah, we. We have love for Frankie.
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B
Well, let's get into all things Amazing Race here. The first question I have is, how dare you? We finally get the chance to talk about what happened one fateful night back in March. Jess, do you want to fill people in for the uninitiated?
- [04:33]
E
Well, Mike, I feel like we've told this story, like, eight times already, but.
- [04:38]
B
Now we get to say it in front of the perpetrator's faces.
- [04:40]
C
Idealistically.
- [04:42]
E
Well, I think we have actually said it to their faces twice on air, so I feel like this story is just, like, snowballing in mythology here.
- [04:51]
D
Put it on the record.
- [04:52]
C
Okay.
- [04:53]
E
Yeah, we'll officially go on the record with everybody in the room and everybody at home. So Izzy has shown up to several Amazing Grace events in the past. Like, we knew she was there. We would see her around. We'd be like, hey, what's up? And. And then Mike and I are hanging out with Izzy and Paige at the Amazing Race finale.
- [05:21]
D
This is the premiere 37 premiere. Right, right.
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E
We're at the season 37 premiere party. And I had. This was kind of our first chance to really, like, talk Amazing Race with the two of them. And we had heard the rumor that there was a Big Brother cast in the works, and we chatted about this a little bit and I said, you know, the two of you would be perfect for Amazing Grace.
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D
Have they called you? I think so, too. I mean, we didn't get the call, Jess. I mean, I'm mad about it because.
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E
These two just dead ass looked us in the eye and said, no, they didn't even call us. And I was like, that is a travesty.
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D
Yes, it is.
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E
I hate this season already.
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D
I'm not watching it.
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E
No.
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C
Meanwhile, our backpacks were packed.
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D
Literally packed.
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E
Literally already packed. And three days later, you were out.
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C
We were so convinced that you were all just being polite and playing along with us. We were like, they know. They totally know.
- [06:18]
D
Like, oh, man, we botched that. Like, that's so embarrassing.
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B
That's incredible. So then I guess I have to ask, what was sort of the timeline of this? You know, when in our exit interviews, we certainly have discussed how you found out and how Paige got involved as a partner, perhaps with a bit of a top rope from three, but, like, what was the timeline of you being in casting to actually getting the call that you both were going to be on the race?
- [06:43]
D
Oh, like the official. The official, like, you doing it. I got called in, like, October of this past year. And, well, I mean, it was really just a text and it was all cryptic, and I looked up the name of this casting producer and saw was for the raise and then freaked out because I was like, fuck, are we going to do the race? Oh, my God. And like, that's when everything started and they. They requested Paige. I mean, Paige was an invite. Invite only, first top priority. That straight. You know what I mean? No, but. And then we. I mean, I guess we had like maybe three weeks before we left. Yeah, that where we.
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C
Okay, yeah, we got that first call in October, but that was just to start the casting, the process, you know, like, there was still a full casting process that involved an audition tape and, like.
- [07:31]
D
A tape.
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C
Yeah. Multiple interviews, multiple revisions of that tape. So that all started, like, in October and Then we knew for sure. For sure. Like three weeks out and three weeks.
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D
Before that date was my deadline to get my driver's license. I don't know if you two this but have a driver's license and you're a New Yorker and of course was okay, but you have to get a driver's license.
- [07:57]
C
Yeah. It's a rule that both teammates on the race have to have valid US driver's licenses. So.
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D
So I did. I learned in my friend's minivan who. She was here for a gig and just like gave me the keys and I learned in a minivan in downtown Manhattan.
- [08:11]
C
So like, yeah, shout out to our very trusting friend Nico for. For lending us your minivan. Yeah.
- [08:18]
B
Well, I'm super curious because a lot was baked into this season of pre existing knowledge of each other and relationships as we'll get into. I mean, like Jess said, the idea had been percolating for a while, you know, especially in the weeks leading up the season filming. Was there a discussion between people about like, hey, if you're on this season and was there caginess around that or not?
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C
So we actually, the reason we were keeping it a secret from all of you is because we wanted no one else on the season to know that we were showing up.
- [08:49]
D
We very much did not want to pregame. We did not want anyone to know we were going to be there.
- [08:54]
C
Yeah, we, I mean, like we had heard all the same rumors as everyone else about like, who could be there.
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D
And we were making our own lists based on what we saw on social media and knowing that like, oh well, this is a day that we've been told we have to be in an interview together in person and seeing people, you know, these people are so online.
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E
Yeah.
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C
So we actually we, we clocked that the Chadas were probably going to be there because we had a list of every day that we were required to do an interview together. Like, that we couldn't be traveling for work. And suspiciously, Simone was showing up in D.C. you know, on, on Hannah's Instagram, on every one of that. We were also doing. So, you know, we had, we were putting together our cast, but you know, just because of like where I think we sit in like the social scene of Big Brother, you know, like we're, you know, we're not, we're not in Miami at, you know, at everything. We didn't think that the pre gaming was really would have been advantageous for us. And, and also just like that's not really.
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D
That's not this game.
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C
That's not the race.
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B
Okay.
- [09:58]
D
Like, I, I, I truly fundamentally believe you should approach every one of these shows, every single one of these games with what that game is. Game is not about alliances. Like, I know. You know, yeah, whatever.
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C
So I decided it would be best for us to just be a surprise as opposed to a known factor that people could really, like, anticipate before the race.
- [10:20]
B
What would you say from the amount of preparation you did? Because, again, we know the two of you. Izzy, your story of prepping for Big Brother is legendary. What is the thing you did before this season that you think helped you the most and helped you the least?
- [10:37]
D
I mean, you know, just, like, I wallpage things about this a little bit. Like, just like on Big Brother, I mean, we had already been avid race watchers. Like, we already knew the race. We had already kind of, like, we can't not watch these shows and think about how we would do them. Like, that's just where that kind of gamer house, you know? So we had already, like, had some ideas about, like, how we would approach the race. Um, but we definitely rewatched a ton and took a lot of notes about, you know, like, combinations of challenges when that happened, how Roadblocks alternated, like, things like that, so that we could have an idea of, like, how we would approach that and not be, like, trying to divvy up Roadblocks in the moment, in real time without ever having thought about that. So we definitely thought about those elements a lot.
- [11:22]
C
Yeah. Like, formalizing our race iq. Yeah. And, like, really playing that out was. Yeah, that's a good way. That was huge.
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D
That was huge.
- [11:29]
C
And, like, because we're also, I mean, like, we make art for a living, and, like, we took the time to, like, realize that what the producers of the Amazing Race are doing is also telling a story and that, like, we can use our understanding of, like, how it gets made to kind of hopefully predict what's coming next and, you know, how to approach it better.
- [11:50]
D
So, and I will say we did kind of nail it with the Roadblocks. I mean, we did have this philosophy that, like, the type, we sort of categorized our skills into sort of broad categories that would match the kind of challenges that are on the race. And we were like, they're not going to test the same Roadblock skill or category back to back in back to back episodes, because that's just, like, not interesting. And so we thought a lot about who was going to do the first Roadblock and sort of thinking about this is going to set us up to alternate um, and we were pretty proud of that. I mean, I think that was one of our more successful, like, prep into, you know, into actual racing that we, like, succeeded in.
- [12:35]
C
And then I think the thing that we did not nail. Yeah, go for it actually was like our. I've learned so much about, like, how to be like a healthy, athletic person since this race. Like, I had ne I'd never in my life considered a sport. But like, we, we had a ton of focus on cardio and like, very little focus on strength.
- [12:56]
D
Yeah.
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C
And like, I since learned that that is not a way to lip that you can't. That you can't have both your like limp little noodle body out to the park and just start running, you know, just so noodle. So, you know, like, in some ways I think we showed up, like, already kind of tired. We had just tried to run so hard without, you know, actually building any muscle or consuming protein.
- [13:21]
D
Now. Joseph Abdin checks on our protein intake every day.
- [13:25]
C
Yeah.
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E
He'S just managing everybody's diet, isn't he?
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D
That's correct. Yeah, he loves it.
- [13:32]
C
Yeah, he's really passionate about it.
- [13:34]
B
You talk about showing up tired. That was a literal thing though, right? Like, this is one of the things that you've talked about on chat bcc that you guys had a pretty daunting flight to get into the Netherlands in the first place. That I think, like, really threw you into the deep end from a fatigue perspective.
- [13:50]
D
Oh, my God.
- [13:51]
B
Yeah.
- [13:51]
D
I mean, like, that is something they did not do a good job of portraying at all on the show. I mean, like, when we left la, we flew to Detroit, transferred in Detroit, got on a flight to Amsterdam immediately to the train station, to about a two hour train to Horn. And then we literally are at the train station. We got mic'd up on the train. Like, no one's been mic'd up before. And they're like, all right. And I'm like, belly out on this, like, public Netherlands train. And we're just like miking up and everyone's looking around and we get to super confusing.
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C
We told our sound guy, like, it's probably time to mic us up.
- [14:26]
D
Everyone's micing up.
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C
And he was like, oh, I think we have more time. And we were like, can you put our mics on us? Like, and so we did it.
- [14:32]
D
And then we're just like standing at the front of the stairs and we hear all of them being like, all right, are they ready down there? All right, we're gonna go. And they were like, you're Gonna start right now. We're like, where's Phil?
- [14:42]
C
You know, like, they're on the train platform, like, at the top of the stairs. They were like, don't go down the stairs yet. That's where the race is.
- [14:48]
D
And we were like. And so. Yeah, and then we just said, go. And then it's like the race starts and then. So that was like an insane amount of time.
- [14:56]
C
Yeah, so it was like. Like they're probably 36 hours of. Of travel leading up to them saying go, you know, and like, nobody had had a meal. Like, the last thing anyone had eaten was, you know, airplane food or something on, like, $5. Yeah.
- [15:11]
D
But then. But then the last thing I'll say that, of course, doesn't make it in. That is just like a reality of these shows is then we get through this first beep ass sled challenge. And I'll get into why a forced express pass is bullshit on this race. But we find herself.
- [15:28]
C
And then screams, yeah.
- [15:29]
D
Finally get to Phil. And then it's like we filmed that intro for like, two hours, yo. Like, we're then standing in the cold, refilm in the eyebrow, all of that. Go, look this way. And we're like. And then we don't go. And we did that for like two hours before then we started the leg. I mean, the first two legs of this race were so insanely exhausting. It's, like, hard to comprehend actually now.
- [15:53]
C
After the fact, because then we. So we get shot out of a cannon from the train station, do that first little task in the cabs, get to the starting line, stop, spend, like two hours there. You can't put on extra layers because they're filming because of continuity. So everyone is just stuck in whatever warm thing they had on showing up. You. You freeze there for two hours. And then they say go again. And you do a very long leg of the race. Finish at the mat, do your interviews, go to the hotel. And it was our shortest day of the entire race. We were there for like 12 hours.
- [16:28]
D
That was the one that was 12 hours.
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C
And. And then we get released and they say, take a train to Prague.
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D
That takes like 17 hours.
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C
Yeah. And so we spend, like another 24 hours on the trains getting to Prague and then do one of the most physical legs of the race. Running on cobblestone.
- [16:45]
D
Anyway, it was so.
- [16:46]
C
Yeah, needless to say, like, any tears that you saw in Prague, like, like, I support everyone who cried in cry.
- [16:55]
D
You not racing. Right? That's what I said. You are not racing. Right. If you are not in tears.
- [17:01]
C
Yeah, it's funny. Like, I'm so proud that we made it all the way to like 11 and like we are fourth place. But like, I'm actually so proud that we finished legs one and that.
- [17:11]
E
So I would love to know. This is something that I don't think I've ever heard a racer tell me about. I would love to know, like, how possible is it to sleep in transit? Like, you're on this 17 hour train ride. Well, are you able to sleep at all? Like, would you be able to sleep on a train if you weren't filming a crazy ass TV show? And is it less possible when you are?
- [17:39]
D
I mean, I think there are a couple, like, elements to that that make it like a little funny. Like, the thing is, we in particular never took a sleeper. Like we were. So our trains were never more than like four hours at a time when we were transferring.
- [17:54]
E
There's.
- [17:54]
C
Yeah, there's almost always an option that will get you there a little faster if you take nine different trains instead of the one train.
- [18:01]
D
And so of course we did that.
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C
Yeah, and of course, so of course we did that, you know, so that really breaks up the opportunity for sleep first and foremost.
- [18:10]
D
But I do think that we did manage to find moments of real sleep, even if they were short on the train. And for me, it's partially. We travel with a full security detail, y'.
- [18:21]
B
All.
- [18:21]
D
Like, like, you know, it is actually like feel safe, you know, Like, I think if I was by myself on this overnight train, I wouldn't have gotten like a good 45 minutes. But we are very much like, observed and taken care of and. Yeah, so I think like, that element of like safety out in the world, like, helps trying to get a little bit of rest, but.
- [18:42]
C
Well, and I think like something I wish I had figured out sooner and we've talked about this in like, other elements of like food and fueling is like the Amazing Race shouldn't be a suffering game. Like, you should not.
- [18:55]
D
We made it that way.
- [18:56]
B
Yeah.
- [18:56]
C
And I hate it. A suffering game for a while of like, I will be vigilant at every moment. And it's like the train is going, yeah, yeah, yeah, the train is going. Set your alarm for an hour and close your eyes, you know, and so like, I, yeah, I was certainly like overcompensating for a while of like, I will, you know.
- [19:16]
D
And I think definitely we felt on the trains it was like we would be nervous for both of us to fall asleep because, like, what if the alarm didn't Work or what if we just didn't observe something? And so I think we sometimes tried to, like, alternate, you know.
- [19:29]
C
Yeah.
- [19:30]
D
But I don't know. We weren't great at it.
- [19:32]
C
Yeah. I do think it's possible to, like, steal rest if you're, like, mentally and emotionally, like, prioritizing it, which it took a while to understand that that was important, you know, so tired, you just, like, stay up.
- [19:45]
B
You know, you mentioned it before. Let's get to the aforementioned beeping forced Express Pass because again, you two were fans of the race and this is an unprecedented situation. So I want to get your reaction between, like, getting dropped off and told to go bull before the race actually begins, and then as you're sitting in the freezing cold, being iced out in a manner of speaking, and finding out that this Express Pass was given to Jag and Jazz.
- [20:09]
D
Well, it's like, first of all, I'm not a huge fan of twists or, like, any sort of additional stuff to these games. I think what's interesting about these games is seeing people navigate stuff, and I think I just don't find twists or advantages all that interesting. Like, you know, so. Right.
- [20:27]
C
Like relying on the support of a twist or whatever instead of just, like, relying on telling the story of, like, humans navigating this race.
- [20:35]
D
Exactly. So, but. But what I do think is interesting about an Express Pass or a Fast Forward type of advantage in the race is the element of, like, it's going to be with top teams. Right? Like, top teams are going to be the first ones to see whether or not this is available or taken. They're going to have the opportunity to go for it. And I think what's interesting is forcing a team like that to make a decision whether to risk giving up their top spot for this advantage or continue on. And I think, like, that element of pulling someone out, forcing maybe other teams to want to challenge you for it and, like, just another element of, like, mixing up the placement of teams. I think that is what is interesting about that advantage, not the actual Express Pass. Don't do a thing. You know, I think it's boring not to see people do stuff. I think it's fucked up that people get their votes taken away in Survivor, you know, like, it's like that that is what we are here for. That is what this game is. And so don't take that away from people. So I don't like that they get to skip shit. But what I think is interesting is, like, the element of making a choice of a team having to make a choice and we didn't have a choice. So it's like, what is this? Like, we're forced to do this? Like, yeah, I don't.
- [21:49]
C
Well, like, our Express Pass just became like, let's survey the teams to see who has the best strength to weight ratio. Like, hope you have a big one and a small one, you know.
- [21:59]
D
Oh, right on the sled challenge.
- [22:00]
C
Yeah. Big factor. As opposed to being like, which team is going to be bold enough to go off route right now to try and get an advantage? And will it be a front team willing to give up a front spot or will it fall to a desperate team in the back who's going to try and make a big move? Yeah, so, yeah, whatever. Yeah, we were pretty bummed about that.
- [22:20]
D
Yeah. Yeah. And I think. I mean, we've all said it. It was dumb to give Jag and Jazz the Express Pass.
- [22:26]
C
Like, yeah, for the record, we did not make a plea for the Express Pass. They gave us all opportunities to go around and say we deserved it. And we, like, we just really, like, wanted to put our money where our mouth is. And, like, we don't believe that you need an Express Pass to win the race. So, you know, we didn't think it was going to come our way, but we didn't. We literally did not ask for it.
- [22:44]
D
Honestly, it would have been embarrassing if we pleaded for it. It's not coming. Like, we're self aware. You know what I mean? Like, it's not coming to us.
- [22:51]
C
Yeah. So. And, like. And it ultimately didn't have a big impact on the race, so I think the producers really wanted, like, our beef with Dragon Jazz to be about the Express Pass.
- [22:59]
D
We don't care.
- [22:59]
C
And we were like, they can have it.
- [23:02]
E
Okay, well, I. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [23:07]
A
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- [24:11]
B
Wow.
- [24:11]
A
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- [27:27]
E
I would love to know more about. Like, I don't need the full context here, but coming into the race, you probably had some idea that you were going to see Jag and Jazz there and what was your what headspace were you in vis a vis them coming into the race? And how was like what did you. Did you clock them immediately as like, I mean we know Jag was a comp beast. Did you clock them immediately as your number one threats and did that color like anything you were doing in the early stages?
- [28:03]
D
I mean my first thought was oh, not again. But yeah, I was like, oh man, that sucks. No, I don't know. I mean, yeah, I mean we thought we knew they were going to be competitive, you know, like they are. They're A lot of their life is ingrained in like Athletics, you know, like, they are heavily involved in the Special Olympics and coach teams and have lots of, you know, like, experience playing lots of different sports and things like that, you know. And obviously, yes, Jag's comp record on Big Brother speaks for itself, you know.
- [28:32]
C
Yeah. And we know that even though they're from OMAC Washington, like, they're fairly well traveled as well, and, like, you know, and they're bilingual and, like, you know. Yeah. So, of course, we. Yeah, we thought they were going to be pretty impressive, but we, like, you.
- [28:45]
D
Know, I mean, I believe this about all these games, and I believe this about the race, and I like to think that we sort of proved this a little bit, even though we didn't win, but that, like, these Games are for everyone. Like, anyone at any point could win these Games. And so, especially on the race, where, to me, it's just so individual. It's like a team. It's a team game, but within each other, you know? And I just, like, I don't know. I think we were. We bucked ourselves up for this, but I think we were confident in our independence and confident in our, like, how we prepared and how we're thinking about and how we were approaching it. And it's like, yeah, we just wanted to get to that final leg, you know, I mean, we definitely. I think we've reframed this in our, like, in our minds. Thinking about the potential future or just, like, how we live our lives, that's like, no, we should try to win every leg. We should go into things being like, no, we're going to try to win instead of, we don't need to come in, like, all we need to do is not come in last.
- [29:42]
C
I know what Izzy is saying is, like, we certainly clocked them as a threat really early, and we thought, like, that's fine. Three teams are going to make it to the final leg, you know, so, like, it's okay if they're going to dominate a lot of this race, we just need to not be last and then figure something out in a big quiz at the end. And we are. We consider ourselves very intelligent. So, you know, like, even though we clock them as a threat and, you know, we're aware that, you know, Izzy and Jag didn't have, like, the best relationship beforehand. We didn't come in, like, looking to target them at all or, like, looking to be hostile in any way.
- [30:20]
B
Yeah, not at all.
- [30:21]
D
I mean, like, honestly, we had joked that, like, God, the narrative is going to be so good when we beat them. In that final leg, you know, like, that's what was fueling us. We kind of, like, expected to see them there. You know, if we were going to be there.
- [30:32]
B
We were.
- [30:32]
C
We were very much of the, like, you only have to win one leg. Yeah, yeah. Kind of mindset.
- [30:37]
B
Well, for what it's worth, the first leg you did do incredibly well on. I mean, you are, you know, fighting to avoid that hazard alongside Enzo and Jack, but you jump all the way up to third place. Did this compare to your expectations going into the race? What were your thoughts upon that first result?
- [30:55]
D
Well, I mean, I think when we were, like, after we came in 12th on the. The sledding thing, and we're standing there and, like, all the teams are lined up and we're like, you know, the 12th ones to run up. I think, like, we were sort of, like, we looked at each other and we were like, if we go home now, we had a great time. We're going to be. We're going to hibernate for a month. No one will know we're back, and we're going to have a great time and then it'll be over.
- [31:16]
C
Yeah. We kept making jokes that we were going to. To, like, a Sandals Resort in Jamaica. We were like, if we go home today, we'll just go to Sandals. Like, nobody, nobody knows where we are. It's fine. We'll be at Sandals.
- [31:27]
B
But I think.
- [31:28]
D
But I think, like, you know, the minute then the leg really started, you know, we did what we said we were going to do, and coming in third was like, oh, my God, it was so motivating, you know, I mean, like, we knew we were third right away. We got to the flowers and only saw Jag Jazz and, you know, Tucker and Eric, and we're like, we're in this thing. Like, yeah, and we made mistakes, too. But, like, even getting to the tandem bikes and realizing, oh, snap, Taylor and Kylan aren't here yet, or like, oh, my God, where's this team? Or like, oh, wow. We were like, okay, let's just keep doing what we're doing, you know, like, clearly.
- [32:05]
C
Well, and, like, at the cheese market, we, like, arrived with a bunch of people and then, like, we picked up our cheese and started walking off and we were like, they're not coming.
- [32:12]
D
I was like, we left first. Okay. You know.
- [32:15]
C
Yeah. Like, I mean, I feel. It really felt like for that Express Pass task, we, like, immediately got dumped into the, like, worst case scenario of, like, what the race was going to feel like, and we were like, okay, we were. We were prepared for this. Like, damn. Okay. Hopefully we won't go home first, and it'll be all right. And then, like. And then we left the actual starting line and. And got a feel of, like, what we believed the race could be. And we were like, oh, there it is. And, yeah, it was. It was. I was riding a high. Yeah.
- [32:44]
D
I mean, we prepared a lot for our navigating, and it was nice to sort of see that put to the test right away. And we did a really, really good job navigating that leg. And I think that confirmation, you know, of what we had planned to do and, like, seeing it happen was, like.
- [33:01]
C
Yeah, I think we passed, like, four or five teams on the way to the Flower Roadblock. Yeah, we were, like, solid middle of the pack. And then we got our directions one time and got straight to the flower place, and. Yeah.
- [33:14]
B
All right. Well, the highest followed by a crashing low. So we need to talk about this trade situation, because it feels like what's been expressed by the vast majority of people that survived, you know, Frankfurt Gate is that things were so, so much worse than what was shown on screen.
- [33:36]
D
Oh, that overnight.
- [33:38]
B
That overnight, Yes. I should say the. When you were kind of stranded at the train station when a group of you decided, like, hey, let's wait for a little while, just wait to take this version of the train the next day. Obviously, you have the other three teams take off, but did not sound like it was a very fun night.
- [33:51]
C
Oh, my God. I don't. I don't even think those front three teams had a fun night. I think it was a very painful night for everyone. Yeah. And to be fair, we were. We were set up for a painful night regardless. But then to have, like, the crushing humiliation of the mistake, of the mistake really did not set us up for success. For the, like, freezing.
- [34:12]
D
Yeah. Because, like, our. Other than the top three, the pack that we were with, we. Ultimately, one of the reasons we waited for the next train to come is because we realized that that's actually all we needed to do to get back on our same itinerary.
- [34:25]
C
Yeah. For the record, we actually. I don't think we've talked about this on any other podcast.
- [34:30]
B
I.
- [34:31]
C
When we had our group, like, the three teams had split off, and then there were the rest of us that were clinging pretty close to me and Izzy, but they were. And I, like, split off to talk to, like, an agent because he was, like, pretty overwhelmed by the group. So I just, like, went off to chat with him privately, and I actually found I found the train that the three front teams were on and the agent told me, he was like, you can't take this line. You can't buy a ticket for the last piece of that journey yet. And you won't be able to buy a ticket. Like the, like the ticket booth won't open until after the train.
- [35:11]
D
It was like the type of thing where he's like, you can't buy them at the kiosks. You have to go to a person and by the time.
- [35:17]
C
And there won't be.
- [35:17]
D
There won't be a person there.
- [35:19]
C
And so, yeah, so he thought, like, yeah, the agent gave me bad advice. He was like, he was like, that's a. Basically a train line to nowhere because you can't get on the last piece of the journey. And so I was like, wow, thank you. I was like, wow, that could have been bad. And so we, like chose to get back on track. So we actually haven't told all those other teams.
- [35:39]
D
That's true.
- [35:39]
C
Yeah, but, yeah, but I mean, like.
- [35:43]
D
Regardless that, yeah, it was horrible. So, like, it was horrible. We had, we transferred to so many trains. And one of the last ones before it became the very next day, we had like a, maybe a four hour wait in between trains. And it was like we got to Leipzig at like 1 or 2 in the morning and our train wasn't until like 5 or 6.
- [36:04]
C
And it was an open air, open train station.
- [36:07]
D
Air. And so all of us sort of like just went exploring to try to find like a warm, ish place to be. And we found a stairwell. We just found a stairwell. And each team took a different landing. There was only room. I mean, we were with our crew. Crew also.
- [36:22]
B
Yeah, that's true.
- [36:23]
D
A couple producers. So, like, we were like, had a lot of people. And so basically a team and a crew picked a landing. Yeah, and me and Paige went to the top because he, you know, she rises. And so we were, we were up there.
- [36:37]
C
We were like, we'll take this one for the team.
- [36:41]
D
But we were up there and like, you know, trying to find a way to rest, Jess, you know, like, trying to find a way to have some peace. And like about an hour or two into us being there, we get woken up by German police straddling us. Oh, dear Lord standing over us, speaking to us in Germany. You gotta go, you gotta go, you gotta go.
- [37:00]
C
And like, we literally had to be like, okay, take a step back if you want us to stand up. You are on top on us. And so they were displeased.
- [37:09]
D
Yeah, so he kicked us out. Yeah, he kicked us out of there. And it was, like, kind of scary and, like, weird. And anyway, we ended up. Maybe we've told some teams this, but we ended up all sort of scattering to try to find a place to be, and we ended up going outside to just, like, I don't know, take a walk to figure something out. We found a hotel and we actually went into the lobby of this hotel and, like, got free waters and some snacks and, like, we're in the. We were like, in a bougie, like, velvet lounge and, like, got to use the bathroom and brush our teeth.
- [37:41]
C
Like, we felt really bad.
- [37:43]
D
Yeah. We were silent.
- [37:44]
C
Like, we knew that if we went back to gather the additional 15 people with us that there was no way they were going to humor us sitting in the lobby. And so it was like just us and our crew. And we felt. We felt really bad, but we were warm.
- [37:57]
D
Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, that was. Yeah, that was the most insane night of the race. And just like, in general, I mean, I can't believe we did that.
- [38:04]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is.
- [38:07]
B
Yeah, that. That is absolutely. Well, I mean, they talked a little bit about how maybe the train wreck alliance was also kind of like forged in trauma. I mean, like, you two were both very, like, the game is the game, no matter what. But did you feel like a tighter connection to the group that you were kind of stranded with on that staircase and beyond after that?
- [38:23]
C
Well, we. I mean, I. We actually kind of real. Like, our plan was to run this race alone.
- [38:29]
B
And.
- [38:29]
C
And we realized on that journey, I mean, I kind of made a joke about it, but, like, we realized that these teams didn't, like, they kind of needed us. And we were like. We were like, oh, man. Like, we would have been fine alone. Like, we, like. But at that point there was, you know, we stick out like sore thumbs. There was no way for us to, like, you know, shake everybody. And so we realized that we were. We were gonna, like, single handedly navigate five teams to Prague. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, Chelsea and Jack, like, almost got off at the wrong train stop several more times.
- [38:59]
D
And, like, we were not the ones to tell them.
- [39:01]
C
Yeah.
- [39:01]
D
And like, I was dying for them.
- [39:03]
C
To get off, like, stepped off the train. And like, then the other teams look back and we're still sitting and we're like. I was like. And then they get back on the train. God damn it. You know, nop. Nobody knows what a terminal stop is. And like, you know. Yeah. So we were. I mean, we had. We had that Was, like, really the foundation of our relationship with Ruby. Name Christine. We had, like, a nice train ride with them and, like, really saw each other, but I think overall our mentality towards the whole group was like, oh, my God, I wish we were alone right now. Like, we. We would have been fine, and a lot of these other teams wouldn't have been. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [39:36]
B
Well, not to fast forward too much, but I do want to go to a moment after the Czech Republic that seems to bear out when it comes to the U turn of it all, where, you know, you are. Some of you heard this before, sort of like at a. I don't know. I think it was at a train station. Yeah, this was another one of those sleeper things. We get this scene where, like, once again.
- [39:55]
C
Go ahead. Yeah.
- [39:55]
B
So, yeah, it seems like this. The thing where, once again, it seems like people are flocking towards you to be like, let's get directions. And Jag and Jess walk towards you, and you say, like, they're like, basically, like, what's going on? And you're like, but we're not gonna. I don't really want to have this conversation right now.
- [40:10]
D
What?
- [40:10]
C
I said, okay. I went. I'm gonna paint a P here.
- [40:14]
B
Please do it.
- [40:15]
D
This is the most ridiculous thing that is in the show. Like, I cannot believe this was an inciting incident.
- [40:22]
C
So the two of us are alone. We have not yet bought train tickets. We are looking at a phone. Joseph Abdin walks up to us, literally open arms, says our names, hugs us, and talks with us for a minute. We confer about tickets. Meanwhile, across the train station, Jag and Jazz are standing, like, 20 yards away, staring open mouth, watching this whole thing happen. And we're like, that's crazy. But. So we just keep having our conversation. And as our conversation is coming to a natural conclusion, Jaz walks up behind Izzy, stands behind her and says nothing. As our conversation is ending and we are going to buy our train tickets. So he doesn't say a word. He doesn't say hi. He doesn't. You know, he just lingers. And so we say, all right, well, we're gonna go get our tickets now.
- [41:19]
D
I was like, we're gonna finish. We're gonna finish this up. See you later.
- [41:23]
C
And we, like, train. We were like, we'll see you in a minute. And we walked to get our tickets and then came right back out. And, like, we're very pleasant to everyone, so we're not really sure what happened.
- [41:33]
D
Like, and then they use, like, yeah. Game lingo that they don't oh, clearly they don't want to work with us, so that's. We have.
- [41:39]
C
It's like you have to talking about. You have to make eye contact with us if you want to work with us.
- [41:44]
D
And also, why are you expecting everyone to work? You really think running this race is that 12 teams are going to work with Dragon? Jazz, what is wrong with you? I mean that. I mean, it's crazy. This is me being crazy. I was like, hey, dude, look, we'll see you in a minute.
- [41:59]
C
We.
- [41:59]
D
I literally was. When we saw that, I was. This is what they're getting mad mad at. It's like insane.
- [42:08]
C
It's like more at least take a moment where we're.
- [42:11]
D
I like this all the time. You don't want to pick that moment.
- [42:16]
C
We thought we were being very cordial. Like, he just didn't say anything. We thought maybe you wanted to see Joseph. Like, he didn't see us.
- [42:23]
E
He's doing that like, socially awkward thing that you do at like the Amazing Race finale party.
- [42:28]
C
When you walk with racers, you're just.
- [42:30]
E
Gonna kind of hang out near them.
- [42:32]
D
And hope that they and acknowledge you. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm not reading your mind.
- [42:37]
C
Yeah. I'm not sure how we were supposed to like, host in that moment. That would have made us less villainous. But yeah, we actually, we died watching that back on tv being like, that's the most.
- [42:48]
D
That was it.
- [42:49]
B
That's when they knew they had to u turn you.
- [42:52]
C
Like, what? You know. So meanwhile we were on that train.
- [42:56]
D
And we were sitting with the two of them for quite a while and they could not wait. I guess that was the leg before, but they could not wait to go. We're gonna go to another car and like, see if any other teams are gonna go.
- [43:05]
C
Okay. They had to go network. They left us. So I don't know why we evil anyways. All this is.
- [43:10]
D
We can move on.
- [43:11]
C
We've come a long way in our relationship with Jack and Jazz and I hope they fucking watch this because actually we haven't talked about this yet.
- [43:18]
D
What?
- [43:19]
C
That's true.
- [43:19]
D
Jaz, you like to FaceTime us. FaceTime us after you see this.
- [43:22]
B
Okay.
- [43:25]
C
Going down.
- [43:26]
B
I love this like low key wrestling promo that got cut in the middle of this. Like, Jazz, you better be talking to Jag.
- [43:32]
D
I want a whole brawl him. So next time. I know mafia is happening. Paul brawl.
- [43:37]
E
Next time.
- [43:38]
C
Rap hall, bro.
- [43:39]
D
Rap.
- [43:40]
B
Rap. Paul brawl. You know what? I could think of worse things to watch. I think we'd have to have a doctor on call, but I'd be definitely excited. Well, speaking of Hannah, I want to talk about the dancing of it all, because this leg is the first time that we face, like, a real dance task in the season. And obviously, we'll talk about, you know, a much more loaded moment later on. But the two of you get it in one try.
- [44:05]
D
Yeah, we do, baby.
- [44:06]
B
So talk to me about that. Was there, like, a. An approach? Because, again, you studied and prepared so much. Was there, like, a hard and fast approach you had to those types of tasks?
- [44:14]
C
Well, we. We knew going in that Izzy was way better at balancing a bottle on her head than we had practiced that, because that's requisite.
- [44:22]
E
That's, like, the Will Memorial Challenge now.
- [44:25]
D
Yes.
- [44:25]
C
Yes. Yeah, we know our, like, queer tar history, so we were prepared for that. And we knew the sweet little flathead.
- [44:32]
D
It's a little.
- [44:34]
C
Yeah. So we knew that going in, and we knew that, like, Izzy's, like, musical background was going to be a huge asset. So I think the reason that we got it one and done is that, like, you. You practice with no music. You hear the music for the first time on stage. But Izzy had just grilled our instructor to sing the, like, the intro and count it in.
- [44:57]
D
So, like, because it was awkward, I make. I'm gonna say this because I drilled her, and maybe this is a thing that they try to do in the race. I don't know. Because the can. Can intro was also super awkward.
- [45:07]
C
Yeah.
- [45:07]
B
You all got thrown off by that. Yeah.
- [45:09]
D
So I wonder if they do this purposely. But the reason I kept asking her, like, it's this. This is the count is because it's not a natural. Five, six. A five, six, seven, eight. It was, like, in six. It wasn't the right. It wasn't, like, the right number of beats. And so if you're just, like, going off of, like, Bob a Bob and let's go, baby. Now it's like, you'll be. You're already late.
- [45:30]
C
Yeah.
- [45:31]
D
So I was just, like. I kept asking her because I was like, this is so awkward. This couldn't possibly be what it is. Like, she must be doing it wrong. But no, it was right. But because of that, I was prepared, and I even, like. Because I was the first one to go, so I was like, I'm just gonna trust. She said it was this. That feels so awkward. And it was right. And I think that was a major part of our success there. But I think part of our training in how we prepared for the race is we did kind of have this philosophy, and now we've thought about it once over after doing it, but we did have this philosophy that it's more important to spend one more minute or one more try in practice and get the first correct attempt and do it in one, then to just learn it while doing attempts. Because, like, if you're not the first team there, you have to wait. You, you know, like, there's actually a lot. And now after doing it, there really is a lot more time in between takes. If you're not the first one, they are getting to go over and over and over again and just more variables. And so, yeah, like, we did try to stick to that on all of our detours, you know, anything where we had to. I mean, we tried to do that singularly too, but those, you know, it's different but. But we did go in with that mindset for sure.
- [46:42]
C
Yeah. I mean, that's how we always watch Survivor. That's how we, like watch every competition. It's like, do it once and do it right.
- [46:49]
D
We just say that to ourselves over and over again. Do it once, do it right.
- [46:52]
C
Yeah.
- [46:53]
D
And so do what you need to be able to do it once and do it right. You know, like. Yeah.
- [46:57]
B
That is so interesting, Jess. I can't think of anyone else who talked about specifically when it comes to the dancing, like, making sure the musicality of it is down first because I feel like that is something we had.
- [47:06]
E
Something kind of analogous or at least like in my exit interview with Kat, she said that the count of this was the reason that.
- [47:14]
D
That they got eliminated. It was super awkward. It was awkward.
- [47:18]
E
And I think about this, like, Izzy, with the amount of like weird ass 20th century composers that you have performed over time, you're not all 5, 6, 7, 8.
- [47:30]
D
I mean, yeah, it's like, you know, I've learned in what I do that it's like it doesn't matter if it sounds or feels right. You have to trust the math of it.
- [47:41]
C
Right.
- [47:41]
D
So I did kind of double down on, like, I can keep this steady beat. It doesn't matter where we start, you know, and so. And trusting that. And I mean, at the end we had one final twirl and like Paige was slightly behind and I literally grabbed her.
- [47:55]
C
I mean, she dragged me.
- [47:57]
D
Nobody doing this, like, ga, gah.
- [47:59]
C
Yeah. Like, my natural understanding of rhythm was. Was trying to force the dance to be something that it wasn't. And I, thankfully, I just, I just followed and I was like, yeah, and we're done.
- [48:09]
D
Yeah. But we were super proud. I mean, that's maybe one of our proudest moments. I mean, how could that not be our.
- [48:14]
C
Our camera guy. Yeah. Wow. We so rarely talk about this, actually, but earlier in that leg, leaving the roadblock, leaving the horses, it was super muddy outside, and our camera guy was rushing to keep up with us to rip our next clue.
- [48:31]
D
Wait, say that again, baby. Our camera person was rushing to keep.
- [48:33]
C
With us, and he slipped in the mud and. And took a very hard fall.
- [48:40]
D
I mean, his whole forearm was sheared.
- [48:43]
C
Yeah.
- [48:43]
B
Like.
- [48:44]
C
Like dripping blood. And, like, me being a theater professional, I was like, hold, hold. And. And he, like, hopped up, like, covered in, like, mud and blood. And he looked at me, and he was like, do not ever stop your race for me.
- [48:57]
D
Shout out to Kurt. I mean, he was incredible.
- [48:59]
C
I, like. I was like, is this what having a father feels like? Oh, my God. Like, okay, let.
- [49:05]
D
Shaking reading the cool. Like, okay, make your way to the Houdini museum and someone help him.
- [49:10]
C
And, like, he refused to stop, and he was like, go get your ass a cab. And we were like, okay, like, let's go. And we went and did it. And so he got in the cab and, like, the cab driver gave him napkins to, like, cover his.
- [49:21]
D
Like, the cab driver was driving, like, and.
- [49:23]
C
And we went all the way to Houdini with him just gushing blood. And we were, like, opening that, being, like, let's go, let's go.
- [49:29]
D
Yeah.
- [49:30]
C
And, like, and then we went all the way to the dance challenge, and finally when we got to the dance, like, you know, there's more crew there. And so we walked in, and before we even picked an instructor, we were like, get him help. And, like, so while we were learning the dance, he was, like, getting, like, getting medical, like, support and, like, covering up his, like, massive wound. And he rejoined us just in time to see our.
- [49:53]
B
Our performance.
- [49:54]
C
And so we were, like, dancing for Kirk.
- [49:56]
E
Yeah.
- [49:56]
C
And we finished it, and we got out of there, and we got in a cabin. I'll never forget. He, like, turned around to us in the next cabin. He said, ladies, rarely am I impressed. I think that was awesome. Yeah, it was like. It was. So.
- [50:13]
D
Yeah, we felt very bonded, that whole squad, that him and the sound guy, we were very.
- [50:19]
C
Kirk and Marcus were, like, very, very bonded.
- [50:22]
B
All I'm imagining is Kirk, like, as a Nick Offerman type with that line of just, like, very stoic Canadian.
- [50:28]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [50:30]
C
We could not disappoint him.
- [50:32]
D
Yeah, it was.
- [50:33]
C
Yeah, it was actually, like, so. So emotional and, like, of course that, you know, that's not ultimately the story of that leg, you know, and. And so we're happy to set that aside, but I'm glad to have, like, a little space to share it.
- [50:44]
D
Yeah.
- [50:45]
C
Because Kirk and Marcus were like, yeah, it was. Yeah, it was incredible.
- [50:48]
B
Well, you gave them a lot. Croatia, we need to get into this.
- [50:55]
D
This.
- [50:56]
B
Because I guess the first thing I want to ask is that, you know, you are at the detour, and you see these other teams run by, and so when you're informed that the U turn is ahead, what were your expectations of who might have been on that board before you actually see it?
- [51:11]
D
I mean, I. I don't know if we thought about it that heavily, but, I mean, I. I don't know. We're not dummy. Like, I knew that we were going to be on Jag and Jazz's list if they were going to U turn somewhere.
- [51:24]
C
Yeah. I mean, come on. You know, like, we were. We were like, you know, their faces are pretty transparent. Like, we. We had been aware since leg one that they were, like, pretty displeased with our presence totally on the race, you know, Like, I mean, that's actually why, you know, there's that clip of Izzy in the first. In the first episode being like, I want to rip his fucking head off. Because, like, their demeanor towards us wasn't, like, particularly warm at the starting line, you know, like, we already felt pretty unwelcome. That's what that is. That's what that clip was, you know, so we had been on our best behavior, like, very intentionally trying. Trying not to, you know, make with them. We were trying very hard to play nice, but, you know, obviously that didn't work, you know, so we were, like, aware that there was a possibility, but, like, we, like, I mean, to this day, we really think it was just, like, because of where everyone was in the rankings, like, it was a dumb decision to U turn us. So, like, we really didn't think that we, like, we didn't think they were going to do something that dumb.
- [52:21]
B
Yeah. So it's interesting that you. You had at least some sort of, like, relative expectation about it. Now, again, maybe you had tuned it out because you're like, why would they do this? But, yeah, I mean, the emotional uproar, to say the least, that it prompted. I mean, what was that? Base it, Izzy. Was it, as you mentioned before, sort of like you being on your best behavior until this moment where you're like, all right, I have reason to literally flip these guys off right now.
- [52:42]
D
Let me. Let me say it here, you know, like, I think this was the moment that brought up the Most big brother 25 trauma for me.
- [52:50]
B
Interesting.
- [52:51]
D
You know, and it felt like. It felt like, not again. You know, like, not again. Are you gonna take this from me somehow?
- [53:01]
C
You know, like, because you're uncomfortable.
- [53:03]
D
Because you're uncomfortable with my passion because it's so personal for you, you know, like, you know, one of the issues with me and Jag on Big Brother was that I tried personally so hard. And only so many times do you try and really try to connect with someone and then feel like you've had a good conversation and then the next time they see you, they don't look at you and walk past you. There's only so many times that someone can take that without it feeling completely personal and irrational and all of that. So here it was like, we're doing so well. I'm doing this with my girl and we're having the best time and we're not. We don't care about you, and so not again. Are you gonna. Is. Is your insecurity and your uncomfortable around me take away an opportunity early from me when I know I'm doing well and I know I'm passionate and I know I've prepared, you know, and I know I belong. Right. So.
- [54:05]
C
And you know that you would put in an extreme amount of effort to like, make them feel comfortable in the first.
- [54:11]
D
Exactly.
- [54:12]
C
And so that wasn't really with what.
- [54:14]
D
So I. So it felt like a personal move because it didn't make sense at that point in the game. And therefore it was like, it just felt extra, extra personal to me. And I don't like that. You know, Like, I'm. I've said this before. Like, I'm an emotional person. Like, I react, you know, Like, I believe in feeling my feelings. I think everyone should feel their feelings, but I don't make moves in these games emotionally. You know, emotions are what help sort of shape your understanding of a social structure. Of course. Right. People are emotionally connected to each other. You have to understand that. And I feel like I do, but I make decisions based on what is going to make sense as a move, as a strategy. And so, yeah, I was angry. And I think in some ways that anger, I mean, I always want to think about how I react to things and how I. How I center myself and come back, you know, But I think, like, feeling it deeply is. Was also motivating because it was like, I actually have control here. We can do this. Like, we can do this, and I can't wait to see the look on their face when we do. You know, like, that was so motivating and just motivating for us. Like, I did not want it to end. We were loving it, you know, so. Yeah. So I hope that answers.
- [55:36]
E
And it's like you. It's like you said earlier, this is a different game. You have to come into each game with that game's mindset in mind.
- [55:45]
D
Yeah.
- [55:45]
E
And it feels like, you know, Big Brother is much more a game of relationships. Totally.
- [55:52]
D
So what I'm.
- [55:54]
E
What I'm really curious about is like, did now. I'm not. Not even going to know how to phrase this now, but.
- [56:04]
C
Okay. Throw a few versions out.
- [56:06]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [56:07]
D
We can work.
- [56:09]
E
We can workshop this. So how much. How much of Amazing Race ultimately did feel social? Is it more social or less social than you expected? And like those relationships, did they. Apart from the U turns and the twists, twistiness of it all, Like, I mean, could you race it in a vacuum?
- [56:28]
D
Well, it's funny because it's like, I mean, I think it's inherently less between teams. It's less social between teams. You're not spending nearly the same amount of time together, you know, most of the time. I mean, we never saw Turner and Megan on the race ever. Like, we never. You know what I mean?
- [56:47]
C
Like, we were pretty disappointed.
- [56:51]
D
Don't see and like, but I mean, obviously. But you can't say it's not a social or relationship game because this relationship. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, like, well and, and.
- [57:00]
C
This season, like already having so many baked in relationships, like forced it to be a more relationship based game than I think it normally is. Like, I kind of would have loved the opportunity to race on a season where we didn't know anyone because I think starting from scratch, like, then you could can like actually have a little more control over how your relationships with.
- [57:23]
B
Them then you would. Then you would just be Enzo and Jack. Right.
- [57:27]
D
Shout out to the arrows, my man.
- [57:31]
B
Well, you talk about this being fuel for you, Izzy, this ability to prove them wrong, to have this ability to, you know, call them out for this. So then when you end up getting u turned, how confident were you that you would survive the leg? Of course, I don't think you would have predicted the calamity that was the. That that downhill race that allows you to catch up with some of the other teams. But did you feel like especially knowing that Christina Rubino were also u turned, that you were in a good spot to survive?
- [57:57]
D
I mean, no, but I think I was not Thinking about the outcome, I really don't. I think I was just like, we gotta. We gotta go do this, you know?
- [58:04]
C
And I. Yeah, actually, I didn't. I don't think I considered that we were. We could have gone home until after we attracted.
- [58:12]
D
Yeah.
- [58:12]
B
Wow.
- [58:13]
C
Yeah. Maybe. Maybe on that final. Like, like, they did. It didn't end up being relevant, so they didn't show it, but we did get. We got a little lost going to the map. And, like, so there was one moment.
- [58:24]
B
Did you go to another bar?
- [58:26]
C
Yeah, right. Another. The third booze bar. No. And we just, like, we went up the wrong side of the castle, and.
- [58:32]
D
Like, there were two peaks on this castle that you.
- [58:34]
C
And so we, like, went up the wrong peak and then saw Phil across the way, but there was no way to get to him. We had to go back down into the town and around.
- [58:41]
B
Around.
- [58:41]
C
And we thought we saw Hannah and Simone.
- [58:43]
D
Yeah, we thought we saw, like, a yellow. And I was like, oh, no.
- [58:47]
C
Yeah, we thought we saw Hannah's poncho. And so we were like, God damn it, it's over. We went. But up until then, like, I was just fueled by, like, yeah. Years and years of, like, having to watch Izzy do this alone. And, like. Yeah, no, I was just, like, feral. Like, I saw that board, and I was like, let's. Let's move this entire town. Like, let's do whatever.
- [59:09]
D
It was so hot. She just dug de.
- [59:13]
C
Like, it just, like. Yeah, I've said this before, but just, like, getting, like, years of free therapy, like, came out in that net, like. Yeah. Cathartic. Yeah.
- [59:23]
B
Well, those salty feelings manifest in a more mineral way in the next leg when, you know, you two leave the leg in second to last place. And, you know, you do catch up to Jack and Chelsea at one point. You try to do the whole, like, I don't see a clue anywhere, but you two eventually are pretty good.
- [59:39]
E
Come on.
- [59:40]
B
That was pretty good. I love that. Again, especially now, considering the story of, like. Like, no, like, get off the train. Like, it's clear that you were trying to shake them at every chance you could.
- [59:48]
C
We were trying to shake them for 10 lives. Like, man, they are. They are sticky. I give it to them, you know.
- [59:54]
B
But, you know, the two of you are fight. Or the two teams are fighting it out in the salt mine. And this is when I think, izzy, we probably see you. It's not to say you're most emotional, because we do see you flip off a U turn board a leg prior, but this is a moment that I Think a lot of fans I saw talk about as, like, like, oh, my God, why is she so angry? Why is she freaking out about this? So I'd love to get inside your head, like, give me your perspective on what was going on during that task.
- [60:17]
D
Well, first of all, I'd like to say, did these fans really watch the show and not think that doing a hard thing would be hard and they would feel a thing like, jesus Christ, you're watching tv, right? Don't you want me to kick the wheelbarrow? What's wrong with you?
- [60:27]
C
Yeah, you're welcome, people.
- [60:29]
B
I think.
- [60:29]
D
Well, you know, I like, on the. On rap, we can get slightly heady about this thing. I was frustrated about a couple things in that moment. I was frustrated. We actually wanted to go to Oysters, but we had made a wrong turn and literally ended up in front of salt. And we're not dumb racers, and so we did not waste time trying to find it. We're like, okay, I guess we're doing Salt. So I was bummed that we were doing that just in general. Right. And I was bummed because it became sort of clear at that point when we got to that race, I.
- [61:01]
B
It.
- [61:02]
D
It felt like the tasks weren't that involved. I was worried this was going to be a short leg, you know?
- [61:07]
C
Yeah, we. We had suspicions that we were, like, on our drive out, actually, like, to start the leg. Like, on our very first driving stretch, we passed a production van driving a team back to the hotel, and we.
- [61:23]
D
Were like, they're done.
- [61:24]
C
We were like, here's our chance to make up time and the leg is over.
- [61:29]
D
So that was frustrating because it's like, give us a chance. It wasn't that also better tv, you.
- [61:34]
C
Know, like, so it was the shortest leg of the entire race. We were aware that, or we had a hunch that Rubina and Christine were behind us. No, we knew. We knew at that point.
- [61:44]
D
We knew we were behind you.
- [61:45]
C
Yeah.
- [61:45]
D
And.
- [61:46]
C
And we were realizing that we weren't going to have that we at best were going to beat one team and that Ruben and Christine were for sure.
- [61:53]
D
Going out that it was.
- [61:54]
C
It was just like a fake leg for them. Basically. There was no way for them to make up the amount of time that would.
- [62:00]
D
And that was frustrating.
- [62:01]
B
And.
- [62:01]
D
And that was frustrating because it's like, oh, great. Well, now it's to all female teams going out back to back. Like, that's not a great precedent. We don't like that. And the task was difficult. I mean, like, it was a.
- [62:13]
C
It was a 200 pound.
- [62:15]
D
It was a 200 pound wheelbarrow. Right. So, you know, like, that's my whole body weight, you know, like, that's like.
- [62:20]
C
10, 20 pound bags of salt, you know, it was. Yeah, it was £200 and it was £200 for everyone. And of course, in that moment, you feel like you. You imagine all the teams in front of you and how they would move £200 and then two of us are in the mud.
- [62:36]
D
You know, you're stuck in the mud, so you're uncomfortable and all this stuff. And like. Yeah, so it was just sort of like an all encompassing, like, oh, man. Like, we in the thick of this and this sucks right now. You know what I mean? It was like. I think that was our most, in some ways, like the most, like, just icky feeling.
- [62:55]
C
Yeah. You know, and I think if we hadn't passed that production ban and known that Tucker and Eric were already back in the hotel warm, like, we may have had, like, a little bit more hope, but we felt like we were just. Yeah. I mean, it felt like we were just being put through the wringer for, like, not. Not a great reason, you know.
- [63:12]
E
Well, the thing I think that people. People need to put in perspective here is you were kicking the wheelbarrow. You were swearing at the wheelbarrow. You never took it out on each other.
- [63:25]
D
No, well, it wasn't. And also, if people, like. I mean, we talk about this all the time. Like, Jesus, like, media comprehension is low because immediately. And Paige will say this. Like, I actually. That clip of me in that episode saying, I want to apologize to the wheelbarrow and the salt mine. And the people of. I said that unprompted. Like, we sat down in the interview. They're like, are you guys ready? And I was like, yes. And I'd like to say something before we start.
- [63:49]
E
This is like a Big Brother voting confessional.
- [63:51]
B
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [63:52]
D
I gotta give a shout out to the wheelbarrow. And I apologize to Paige because it was like, no, I wasn't being good partner or teammate in that moment. Like, I was being selfish there, you know, because. Yeah. And so, like, I just. So all these people, it's like, I'm not like this evil. What are you mad at? Like, I don't know. Like, I also recognize that that behavior was not the best behavior, you know, like, of course it's making the show.
- [64:16]
C
Oh, yeah. Our camera guy, that leg literally said.
- [64:19]
D
It was like, oh, it's making.
- [64:19]
C
He was like, yeah, that's making the show for sure.
- [64:23]
B
Oh, My God. At the end of that leg, as Robina and Christine are lemid and you skirt by again, they say that they were rooting for you to win. When you found that out, did that surprise you at all? It seemed like you were building a tight bond through the early days of the race.
- [64:37]
D
I mean, we found that out when everyone else found that out. They didn't tell us.
- [64:40]
C
Yeah, they never told us.
- [64:42]
D
And Rubina and Christine are one of the teams that we've, like, debriefed the most about our time on the race and our experiences and stuff like that. And they. They even said they're like, ah. Did you like that? You know, like, sort of purposely not telling us? Yeah, I felt. I mean, it felt amazing, you know, like, we respected them so much and, like, pound for pound, they were in it. Like, they are a strong, strong team and, like, have worked so hard on their relationship, and it was beautiful to see it manifest. And, like, you know, we had our own little, like, catchphrases, if you will, that we would say to each other to keep each other ground. And I think it was, like, so fun to see that. It's like they had their own version of that and were really, like. Like trying to stay connected and being connected the whole race. And so, yeah, I mean, a team that you respect, that you went through the trauma of a U turn with saying that they want you to win, I mean, feels amazing, you know?
- [65:33]
C
Yeah. I mean, we spent. We were certainly thinking about them that entire leg. And, yeah, I was standing there at the roadblock that she was doing, standing there with Chelsea just, like, looking down the road, like, kind of hoping their car was going to pull up and just like. And also knowing it wasn't. And, like, we just thought about them the entire leg and. And to see that we were on their minds, too, just validated everything. We love them.
- [65:59]
D
Yeah.
- [65:59]
B
Did that surprise you, considering again, how much you came in wanting to race your own race, that you would actively be rooting for someone to show up at the roadblock at the same time as you?
- [66:08]
D
I mean, it's like. Well, it's complicated, right, because you can't help but. I mean, I think the most respect you can show someone on these games is to see them as people and also want to be competitive with them. You know, like, we wanted Rubina and Christine to stay in the race because we wanted to. To once again beat them in the finale. You know, we wanted them to be there with us in finale. Like, I think that's a sign of Respect to me. So anyone watching, like, that's a sign of respect to me is like wanting to be like, keep the integrity of the game and also be respectful of human relationships and friendships.
- [66:42]
C
You know, like, we see it all the time in these, like, you know, there was no gentleman's agreement, but the men loved out for each other. They loved competing with each other and they wanted to beat each other so bad and they wanted each other to be there to beat each other. And, like, women so rarely embrace that type of competitiveness. And, like, I think, you know, like, we're never going to get the all women's alliance until we get the women respecting competition with each other until you.
- [67:11]
D
Don'T have to name it. And women just want to be there with women.
- [67:15]
C
Yeah. You know, we have to get rid of the scarcity complex of, like, there can only be one all female team that's good at this. Like. No, we wanted.
- [67:22]
D
Or one team female.
- [67:23]
C
Yeah, right. We wanted. We wanted there to be six women in the finale.
- [67:27]
D
Truly. And you said it at every interview like.
- [67:30]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [67:31]
B
Well, up until.
- [67:31]
D
Up until they were. I mean, when they started to be. We're like, you're really chopping us up off the knees.
- [67:35]
B
As many women as possible, please.
- [67:37]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know. Yeah, it was like a kind of a beautiful competitive spirit that.
- [67:45]
D
Okay.
- [67:46]
B
Yeah.
- [67:47]
E
Is there something that you feel like the race could be doing differently?
- [67:50]
D
Yes.
- [67:53]
E
Okay. If so.
- [67:57]
C
Well, now, I. We've talked about this. A lot of our cast has talked about this. That, like, in so many of these tasks, why aren't there just weight classes?
- [68:04]
B
Yeah. You know, like driving driver's seat on every task, essentially. Right. Kind of.
- [68:09]
C
Yeah.
- [68:10]
D
Ingrained, you know, like what? Like, why can't it just. I mean.
- [68:15]
B
Yeah.
- [68:16]
D
We just have to be okay with, like, talking about equity. I mean, that's what it is. We don't want to talk about it. We talk about this weird thing, like, fair and equal, but actually equal for everyone is inequitable because the bike has to be a different height for people that are different heights. What are we testing if someone can't actually pedal on the equipment you've provided for them? What are we testing here? Is that team that it's made for really better than this other team? You know, Are they just taller?
- [68:45]
C
Yeah.
- [68:46]
D
Or are they just taller?
- [68:47]
C
Exactly. Exactly.
- [68:49]
E
Right.
- [68:49]
D
I think that's a frustrating. I appreciate our cast internally has been so open and amazing about talking about that with each other, which I think some people can be scared about, talking about But I really appreciate, internally we've, we've really talked about this. Yeah, I mean, I think weight classes, you know, like sizes of things being different.
- [69:09]
C
Yeah.
- [69:10]
D
Types of tasks, legs that you have advantages or non eliminations put on. Maybe. Maybe.
- [69:20]
C
Yeah. Let's name the thing. The thing that Izzy is starting to dabble in right now is the fact that like, you know, even though the show says that they are like very hands off and are not looking to affect the race, like, you actually are making a determination of like, which, which skills you want to uplift based on where you put your twists, you know, if you put your U turns or if you put your, you know, your U turn board on a leg that can be flown through. If you can carry a heavy net, you are choosing to uplift teams that can carry a heavy net. If you put your non elimination leg on a leg that tests frankly or traditional female skills, you are choosing what types of teams to save, you know, and like, and we love Joseph and Adam.
- [70:12]
D
We are not about Joseph and Adam.
- [70:14]
C
There is a, there is an element to the game design that like, you know, it. There's gonna, there's never gonna be a way to not like take aside or have an opinion on that. But like, I do wish the game designers, like acknowledge the fact that like where you place those twists and where you place your resets and like Equalize has a massive, has a massive factor like in your game, you know, like the Roadblock in Dubrovnik. Sorry, I'm just preaching now, but I'm gonna go ahead, baby.
- [70:42]
B
This is your space.
- [70:44]
C
The Roadblock in Dubrovnik with the carts. Yes. So body weight dependent.
- [70:50]
B
Yes.
- [70:51]
C
Joseph literally told me once again, shout out Joseph.
- [70:53]
D
I love Joseph.
- [70:54]
C
Joseph said, I didn't know you were allowed to propel yourself forward.
- [70:58]
B
Forward.
- [70:59]
C
You're telling me he got it on the first try. He sat on the cart and his body weight carried him to the finish line in time.
- [71:07]
D
It's like, what are we testing?
- [71:10]
C
Yeah, it's Simone who weighs one third of Joseph's leg. You know, using every muscle in her body to get that cart to the finish line because she did not weigh enough enough to overcome the bumps in the cobblestone. Like, her weight was not enough to push past those bumps. So she got caught in every rut on the way down. And Joseph and Kylan and all these big guys sailed right over the top, you know, and it's just like, why can't, why can't there be weight classes that determine the time that you need to get down that hill because, like, I would have loved to see Joseph work for. Would have been great tv.
- [71:50]
B
Those arms.
- [71:50]
D
He know I'm already thinking about it.
- [71:53]
C
What if Joseph had to do it seconds and Simone had to do it in 40 seconds?
- [71:57]
B
Like, yeah.
- [71:58]
C
Would that, like, I think it would have been great tv, you know, And I, like, who knows how that would have affected the outcome? But that. All that to say that Roadblock ended up affecting the next.
- [72:08]
D
The whole rest of the race because.
- [72:10]
B
Because you. Because you stayed in Croatia, and so that directly impacted who was in the back of the pack the next leg, and.
- [72:15]
C
And pretty closely impacted what happened at the beginning of Romania as well. Like, all of these teams were pushed to the back, and there was no equalizer until leg nine. You know, like, the leg five Roadblock determined, like, two and a half of the next. You know, of the next eliminations, you know.
- [72:34]
B
Wow.
- [72:34]
C
So, like, just to say that your game design is inherently equitable and does not favor certain strengths or certain types of teams is, like. Is just, like, kind of blissful ignorance, I'd say.
- [72:46]
D
Gaslighting.
- [72:46]
C
Like.
- [72:47]
B
Yeah. I mean, it's incredibly valuable perspective to have that. Yeah. Even if it's done unintentionally, like, it is still obfuscating a lot of skill sets that other people are able to provide. Now, while we're talking about this, I do want you to address something because, Izzy, you brought something to light in the last couple of weeks of the season that you had run into somebody who worked on the Amazing Race crew who designed the challenges, and you said that they were some of the masterminds behind the challenge designs of Big Brother 25. Talk to me more about this, because this got the Internet in a tizzy as well as a. Yeah.
- [73:22]
E
And when are they getting out of the hospital after you confronted them?
- [73:26]
D
Ball brawl, baby.
- [73:29]
C
Yeah.
- [73:29]
D
I was enjoying my week of TAR 38 premiere bliss, enjoying my time at the Big Brother finale party, just doing my thing. When this man approaches me and he says, izzy, I've been dying to meet you. I don't even remember his name.
- [73:49]
E
He goes.
- [73:50]
C
I'm not saying his name right.
- [73:51]
D
I don't remember remember it. But he said to me, he was like, I was. I was the comp designer on Big Brother 25. And I. I also was a designer on. On the amazing ways 38.
- [74:03]
B
Did you, like, given the blank. Given the blank stare, like, jazz, where you just like, this was it.
- [74:07]
D
This was it. I didn't know what to say. And all of my, like, training for Big Brother again You know, like, training. And I was like, don't react. I was like, don't do it. Just. And I was like, oh.
- [74:24]
B
I'm gonna.
- [74:24]
D
Go over here now. I literally just left, and I went immediately to Paige, and I was like, he did the comps. He did the comps and the. And us and this.
- [74:32]
C
And I was like, get her some water. Get her some water.
- [74:35]
D
I was like, I gotta go outside. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Anyway, so, yeah, I met him, and I would love to do another show.
- [74:46]
B
But if you do, this man will be there.
- [74:50]
D
Him and Jack Banes will be there.
- [74:52]
B
That's in your writer at this point. These are green M M's. Like, I will nod to another chef.
- [74:57]
E
They're going out for Survivor, and it's going to be two tribes. It's going to be the Izzy tribe and the Jag tribe.
- [75:01]
D
I would jump right back in the water, y'.
- [75:05]
B
All.
- [75:05]
D
It's okay. It's okay.
- [75:06]
C
I'll have a great time.
- [75:06]
D
I'm gonna go to Ponderosa. I'll have a great time.
- [75:08]
B
You know, well, let's jump off that point to talk about Paige jumping out of a plane.
- [75:13]
D
Yes, please.
- [75:14]
B
Let's go to Romania here. I want to start with something that we to pod in our interview because we felt so much unfulfillment of. Look at all this stuff that Izzy and Paige were saying about when they get their hands on Jag and Jess, don't you worry. Revenge will be sought out. And we never saw anything happen. And you told me that, at least for half of you, there was a conversation that that was had. So talk to me a bit about what we missed out on in that place.
- [75:42]
C
We actually. I hope it's a kosher to, like, you know, cross pollinate here, but, like, we just did an interview with Gay Amazing Race. Sh were big fans of, and I gave, like, a. A, like, beat by beat, play by play. So I'll send you guys over to Gay Amazing Race if you want. Like, every. Every single detail. But, yeah, I, like, we got separated because, like, I was going to skydive, and she got sent to, like, the landing zone to wait. And so I was there with Jazz, and, you know, he was like, you know, doing the Beansboro thing and just kind of, you know, like, looking around and, you know, I forced him into a conversation and. And, like, I, you know, I got to play the game they play and, you know, and be the bigger person. And, like, it really took everything that I had to, like, keep my voice level while he started to go up, and I was like, nope, I'm winning and everyone's going to see. And, like, you know, and I forced him to shake my hand and, like, you know, then there was, like, a cool off period, and then we came back together, and, like, and then he was able to have, like, a slightly more productive conversation, but I was really proud that I was like, you don't get to call us the angry ones. You don't get to call us the crazy ones. Everyone is here right now, and they're gonna see that my voice is level and that you are panicking and. Yeah, yeah. And I.
- [77:02]
D
She asked him a lot of questions.
- [77:04]
C
Yeah.
- [77:04]
D
You know, just like. And how about this? What about that? Yeah, what about this? And, like, you know, let him try to answer them, you know.
- [77:12]
C
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I was, like. I was very pleased with how that went. And them. Yeah. And since then, we've had a lot more productive conversations, but, like, you know, I kind of made him face it.
- [77:25]
D
Yeah.
- [77:26]
C
Yeah. It felt great.
- [77:27]
B
Did you follow each other on Instagram now?
- [77:29]
C
I've always followed Jazz. I've never followed Jag, and I will not.
- [77:34]
B
I told him that.
- [77:35]
C
I was like, I'm sorry, man. I got to stick to this now. And he was like, I understand.
- [77:38]
B
Yeah. When it's made national television, you can't really go back on that.
- [77:41]
C
There's no going back on that.
- [77:43]
D
Who would she be if she did that now?
- [77:45]
C
Yeah, no, I'm a woman of my words. So we actually did a, like, collaboration post for our finale. And, like, in the group text, I was like, okay, guys, like, only if it's. Only if it's possible for me and Jack to do a collab post. Like, I. I'm sorry. I can't really help you out. I don't. I don't know if you can do a collab with someone you're not following.
- [78:01]
D
We were in a cluster with JAG and Jazz, and I was like, this is so funny, actually.
- [78:05]
C
Yeah, I, like, I texted him, and I was like, good luck, man. I worked. It worked. So, you know.
- [78:12]
B
Well, Paige, you made Jazz panic in that moment, but the panic was soon to be set upon you. I have to get your perspective as to. To this skydive. The most exciting thing that you'll never do again.
- [78:23]
D
That's right.
- [78:24]
C
Yeah. Mark, skydiving.
- [78:27]
D
Okay.
- [78:29]
C
I learned nothing. It looked the same as it did from inside the plane. It feels like falling, which is a feeling I felt before that I don't like. It was loud. I've Experienced that before in other situations. So I don't. That wasn't new. I don't know that I learned anything about the world or myself. I think it's dumb with all the skydiving, like, you know, like, walking the plank in Prague, like, that scared the shit out of me. It actually maybe scared me more than skydiving. And, like, I learned something about myself. I learned something about how I experienced fear. I left that, like, proud and accomplished. I left skydiving like, cold and tired. I.
- [79:20]
D
Listen.
- [79:20]
C
It's not for me, and maybe that's okay, you know?
- [79:24]
E
But you know for sure that it's not.
- [79:26]
D
Yes.
- [79:27]
B
You don't know until you try.
- [79:28]
C
I was pretty sure, actually.
- [79:31]
E
It's nice to have that confirmed, though.
- [79:33]
C
It's certainly confirmed.
- [79:34]
B
Yeah.
- [79:35]
D
Oh, my God.
- [79:35]
A
So funny.
- [79:36]
D
What was I gonna say? No, just that the producers, like, made a point while she was, like, getting out of her harness and everything, and I guess it was maybe one of our sound people and, like, producers came up, and there was, like. Just so you know, like, she didn't. She didn't make any sounds the whole time. Like, she didn't. It was silent. She was silent the whole. The whole way down. I thought that was so funny. I mean, you heard Joseph Abdin before he even left the plane.
- [79:59]
E
I think we heard him in real time.
- [80:01]
B
Exactly.
- [80:02]
C
Yeah. I handle crisis in, like, a very particular way. So I was silent and still.
- [80:08]
D
And I'll say this, like, I mean, our deal was that she did that stuff, and I would have to eat the stuff. You know, like, that's. She doesn't want to do the eating. And. And I never had to eat on the race.
- [80:20]
C
There was no bug.
- [80:21]
D
There was no bug. There was no quantity. On some Ferris wheel was like, you're not gonna eat that schnitzel.
- [80:26]
C
Yeah. No maggoty cheese.
- [80:27]
D
There was none of that. And so when we got. When we did get eliminated, RIP she literally. We hadn't even filmed our, you know, like, cuddle looking at the Eiffel Tower little moment, and she turned around.
- [80:41]
B
Around.
- [80:41]
D
She turns around and says, which one of you got a cockroach? Find a cockroach. Because she didn't have to eat anything. She was like, I was out of plane. She didn't have to eat anything. Why don't you find a bug?
- [80:54]
C
I was like, I've been in multiple harnesses.
- [80:58]
B
She eat a bug. For every hardest you've been in this.
- [81:03]
E
When you're in Paris, you could just go eat some snails.
- [81:05]
B
Exactly.
- [81:06]
E
I love that they're so delicious.
- [81:08]
C
I know. It's just. It's so hard to get her back. Like, she. She likes everything.
- [81:12]
D
Well, I was very happy she did this guy.
- [81:15]
B
One thing you didn't like was the sheep. I. You know, that's something that does send you a bit towards the back, you know, one of your first, I think, big scares with. With being in last place. Talk to me about that. Yeah.
- [81:28]
D
45 minutes behind the last team.
- [81:30]
C
We were there for a long time.
- [81:32]
D
I was. I was looking at my clock because I was like, I don't know how to fucking move these sheep. Like, I was like, I don't touch these sheep. These sheep. And also, like, the sheep, like, they're live animals. They're feeling the energy, too. It was a nightmare there in the pens.
- [81:46]
C
Like, we felt bad.
- [81:47]
D
We felt bad. Our sheep were like, I don't want to do this. I was like, bro, I don't want to do this either. Get in the pen. Like, I don't know. We can end this right now. No. We were terrible at the sheep. Paige got ran. I can't believe some of them really had horns. She got rammed.
- [82:02]
C
I got lifted off the ground. Yeah. It wasn't even running. Like, I was just, like. I was trying to figure out how to, like, affect them, and so I, like, stood my ground with one of them, and I was like, you're going in. And it just walked towards me and put its head down and, like, put its, like, horns into my, like, left thigh and just lifted me, and I was just floating off the ground.
- [82:26]
D
Crazy.
- [82:26]
C
And I, like, kind of, like, walked over it and, like, let it go behind me. And I was like, all right, you're gonna go that way. Okay.
- [82:31]
D
She had this crazy bruise. Well, after we even got back from the race, like, she.
- [82:35]
E
She was.
- [82:35]
D
Looked mauled, you know?
- [82:37]
C
Like.
- [82:37]
D
Anyway, that freaked me out. We were all, like, a little nervous to, like.
- [82:41]
C
Yeah.
- [82:41]
D
Get in there. Anyway. That was a horrible challenge.
- [82:44]
C
Yeah. And it was actually, like. I think part of the problem was, like, it was one of the few things where we were really out of sync.
- [82:50]
B
Yeah.
- [82:51]
C
That's because I was so, like, Izzy, even though she's the New Yorker, she. She's also the one who, like, has been around animals. Like, she grew up riding horses, and, like, even though I'm from Texas, like, I was not. I was trying to.
- [83:03]
D
To leave City Girl from the moment.
- [83:05]
C
I was born, you know? So, like, we were like, oh, Izzy's the animal expert. And so, like, I walked into that pen being like, izzy's gonna figure it out. I'm here to help. And, like, Izzy was like, this is not working for me. And, like, we. We hadn't, like, connected.
- [83:19]
D
Yeah, we were on that super misaligned.
- [83:21]
C
And so we, like, wasted, like, half an hour kind of both thinking the other one was leading.
- [83:26]
D
Yeah.
- [83:26]
C
You know.
- [83:27]
D
Yes, that's a good way. Everybody was a sheep, but everyone was a sheep. Everyone was a sheep. It was brutal. And, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [83:35]
C
And then we finally, like. We finally, like, re synced up and, like, figured out, like, okay, Izzy needs to be the brain behind this with the gate, and, like, Paige just has to keep diving into the sheep, putting.
- [83:47]
B
Yourself in bodily harm after you dove out of a plane. Well, you are able to make up a lot of time, and it's predominantly due to your detour choice. And I'm really intrigued by that because obviously, you know, there are aesthetics elements of this that I think do connect to you both being creative individuals. But I know something that Jess talks about all the time is, like, if you're in last place, zag where people are going to zig. Is that a strategy you also implemented of, like, we think everyone's doing the bricks. Let's try to make up some time elsewhere.
- [84:14]
D
Absolutely. And we were so proud to get to holding and realize all these dingbats went to bricks, you know, Like, I mean, yeah, I mean, I. Not to rub it in salt in their wound, but I do think if Natalie and Stephanie had come to masks, we maybe both would have survived that leg. But, yeah, that's not a fun thought experiment. But, yeah, we definitely thought about that as a strategy. Like, if we ever find ourselves. Ourselves in the back and it's a detour situation, that that's absolutely something that will get you ahead. But also, we were just finally. We actually, funny enough, joked about, where are the masks for legs leading up to that. Like, that specifically, I was dying to paint a mask. I love those race challenges like that. Like, after.
- [84:55]
C
After, like, our breakdown at the salt mine, like, one of the things Izzy was saying to producers is like, come on, where is the music? Where are the masks? Like, was specifically what she said. Like, we know you do this. We're ready for craft. Like, we want to get ahead in that.
- [85:09]
D
Yeah, we're sick of hauling shit. Make us do something. Make us use our brains, you know? So anyway. So we were excited anyway to see the masks and, like, I mean, the juxtaposition of, like, the shit time they were having, literally. Yeah. And we were like, I mean, yeah, we were just having a Great time, you know, like, and really, like, centering ourselves back in our philosophy of, like, slower is faster and we're just going to be really organized and diligent and, like, I was really proud of how we completed that. You know, we're really organized about it.
- [85:42]
C
Yeah. I mean, like, my. My energy was still all over the place from skydiving and then straight into the sheep. Like, I was not. I was probably my, like, least regulated self. And, like, Izzy really took over.
- [85:54]
D
I felt so confident there, you know, like, just something I know how to do, something I know that I can relay and help Paige with. And like. Yeah, yeah. I. Yeah. Part of us was really. I think we. We were preparing for ourselves to go out, but. But knew that we were doing this in the way that if we had a chance, we were going to survive.
- [86:16]
C
Yeah, we were really confident that we were doing everything we could in that moment that there we weren't, like, leaving any crumbs of possibility. So.
- [86:22]
D
Yeah. And then we leave and we see Chelsea and Jack still getting directions, and we're like, we end this.
- [86:27]
E
Yeah.
- [86:28]
D
That was an amazing moment.
- [86:29]
B
You put out the call for the music and the masks, and you got the masks and then you got the music. I need to get your reaction to when you open that Detour clue and saw what the other side.
- [86:43]
E
You see the word flute.
- [86:46]
D
Well, I mean, maybe you should tell this precursor to the clue.
- [86:50]
C
So we actually got a little. A little tip from some other racer when we were at the Egg Roadblock. So Chelsea and Jack got so lost on their way to the Egg Roadblock that they ended up on a train with Tucker and Eric headed to the Detour. I can't believe they didn't include this in the show. But they were just, like, riding.
- [87:16]
B
We saw Tucker and Eric go to the Pit stop early. We did see Chelsea and Jack went to the Detour early by accident. Yeah.
- [87:21]
C
So Chelsea and Jack didn't make it to the detour, but they ran into Tucker and Eric, like, in transit. And I'm sure Tucker and Eric then, like, redirected them. They were like, don't go here. But Tucker and Eric told them you can either dance or play the flute. And so then when Chelsea and Jack finally make it to the egg Road block, Chelsea goes off to do it. And Jack is a talker. Like, we love talker. So Jack, standing there with every team that he is currently in competition with goes. We ran into Tucker and Eric, and they say that the Detour options are dancing or playing.
- [87:56]
D
Can you believe?
- [87:58]
C
And my, like, I was trying so hard not to react, and, like, my whole face just dropped. I was just like, what? And then Jack goes, so, Paige, I hope Izzy taught you how to play the flute, because you both got to do it. And I just. I don't think I, like, looked at him. I just think I was like. So the night before we left for.
- [88:18]
D
The race, but here.
- [88:19]
B
Yeah.
- [88:19]
D
Here's the tea.
- [88:20]
C
The very last thing we did to prepare for this race was we were watching Derek and Claire. Derek and Claire's finale, where they had to play the piano.
- [88:28]
B
Yes.
- [88:28]
C
And play the Amazing Race theme song. And so Izzy goes, wait, I'm gonna go get my flute and noodle around and figure out the notes of the Amazing.
- [88:35]
D
I was like, I can't believe I've never done this. I'm gonna go grab, like, just. We should know the notes. Like, what if we do something like this? I could just go, go, go, go.
- [88:41]
C
So she noodles around, figures out the notes, and she goes, this is really easy. Do you want to try and cry? And, like, the last thing we did.
- [88:49]
D
Right before we went to bed, I already brushed my teeth, like, was that.
- [88:52]
C
She put a flute in my hand and, like, taught me how to do it.
- [88:54]
D
I was like, that's how you do it.
- [88:56]
C
Yeah.
- [88:56]
B
And.
- [88:57]
D
And then she played the Amazing Race theme song, and we're like, we're set. We're gonna win this thing, you know?
- [89:01]
C
And then we, like, went to bed and, like, went on the Amazing Race. Yeah. And so when Jack was like, well, I hope Izzy taught you how to play the flute, I was just standing there, actually.
- [89:10]
D
Oh, my God.
- [89:12]
B
I get.
- [89:12]
D
I complete the egg thing. And I was kind of riding a high because I passed, like, several teeth. Like, we were back in the.
- [89:18]
C
Yeah.
- [89:18]
B
You left in third place, I'm pretty.
- [89:20]
D
Sure from that Roblox, I was like, oh, we hyped. And she goes, maybe it's flutes. And I was like, Like, I just, like. I think we danced all the way to the place where we got directions.
- [89:29]
C
He levitated.
- [89:30]
D
I was like, I just, like, couldn't believe it, you know?
- [89:34]
C
Yeah. So, yeah, I guess that's, like, too much for them to, like, weave into the story of the edit. But, yeah, we knew on our way to that. To that detour clue what we were. What we were going to do.
- [89:44]
D
Oh, my God. I was pumped.
- [89:45]
C
We were pumped. Yeah.
- [89:46]
E
Is there ever any fear that you might go to the flute task and just eff it up catastrophically and, like, totally bipolar?
- [89:56]
D
Let me tell you something.
- [89:57]
C
I was afraid of that.
- [89:58]
D
No, I knew you could do it. I knew you could do it. And also, like, it's so funny because, like, in some ways, this type of thing is, like, why I got my start in my career. Like, I. Early on in my career, I was known as the flute player. You could call, call literally at any moment to play anything and show up to the show and do it. Like, that was my shtick, you know? And so, like, anything with the flute, anything with music, high pressure situation, need to be one and done. Oh, I was like, now I feel, is this what the boys feel like all the time? Like, is this what confidence feels like? You know, Like, I just. There was no doubt in my mind that. That even at her, like, the pace that it would take you to learn, it was going to be faster than everyone else. Like, I just knew it. Like, I just knew it. And actually, like, the instructor that they.
- [90:47]
B
Forced us, I was going to say, how did they. How did they feel about all this?
- [90:51]
D
Oh, man, we were too respectful. If we do this again and we in a situation like that, we're going to be like, I'm so sorry. You should go get a coffee. Like, let us just do this, please. Because it was like, we was trying to be nice and let her say, this thing is like, baby, don't listen to that. That's not helpful. Let's do this. Like, I just was like, stop talking.
- [91:05]
C
So, yeah, yeah, we were, like, in a great flow. And then she would, like, feel like she needed contribute more and, like, and then she'd start saying something to it and be like, we're good, we're good.
- [91:14]
D
Well, because in talking about preparation, you know, like, we realize, like, something, you know, something that's going to be really helpful on the race is like, learning how to learn from each other. Like, you know, I think some couples on the race or partner, any type of teammates on the race get upset when someone, one of the team members has more knowledge and they try to help the other team, me, figure out how to do it somehow. Like, egos are too involved or whatever. But a lot of our preparation was, like, we wanted to know what it felt like to be a beginner at a lot of things. And we wanted to know what it felt like for us to teach each other something that we then had to complete. And so, like, we just knew. We knew how to talk to each other, how to pace the task. Like, we just knew how to learn and teach from each other and so well.
- [92:02]
C
And also, like, I, like, this is the person I trust most on Planet Earth. And, like, I'm going to do a thing that she's an expert at. Like, why would I. Like, why would I not be thrilled to take the backseat in that? And, like, number one, let my partner, like, celebrate feeling comfortable in something after everything we've just done. And, like, number two, like, have an expert who knows how to communicate with me. Like, yeah, I was so. I was so thrilled in, like, in every aspect of that, you know, I think. Think, like, we got some snarky comments about, like, oh, well, Izzy's having, you know, too much fun telling Paige what to do. She was like, what are you talking about? She's literally, like, the best at this on planet Earth.
- [92:46]
D
You cannot win.
- [92:50]
E
Out of you when you are excited.
- [92:52]
C
Yeah, I know. It's wild, right?
- [92:53]
B
Like, yeah, Ferreira said it best in Barbie.
- [92:57]
C
Yes. Yeah. But I just, like, I think if anyone is watching that and having the instinct of, like, oh, it must be so annoying for your partner to feel like an authority on this is like, you need to reassess how you have relationships. Because, like, I was so happy to see, like, the light on and Izzy's eyes and to see her, like, feeling like. Like an authority, you know, after we had just been through, like, how many tasks back to back of, like, we're dying, you know?
- [93:25]
B
Yeah.
- [93:25]
C
Yeah. I loved it. I had the best time.
- [93:27]
D
It was fun. The producers at the end were, like. They were whispered to me, like, we wanted you to make it to this leg so bad. You know, we wanted to see you play the full.
- [93:38]
C
They actually pulled us aside and said, to be clear, we set the challenges separate from casting. And your casting had nothing to do with this challenge. Like, they told us that, like, right after the leg, and we were like, it was fine. And then they. They said, well, we were really hoping you would choose this one. We did want to see what would happen.
- [93:56]
D
And Elise, the creator, was there watching us do that detour.
- [94:00]
B
We had really.
- [94:01]
D
We had the big wigs, you know, out to watch us do it, which felt pretty good. You can, you know, they don't like you to know this, but you could tell what's happening with what producer is with you, you know, so.
- [94:12]
C
So, yeah, so, yeah, yeah, we were pretty happy to put on a show.
- [94:19]
B
Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best thing ever. It's even better than pop music. You look just as natural enjoying us at age 13 as you do. 55. Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever.
- [94:36]
C
This episode is brought to you by Ulta Beauty. Holiday cheer is here. And Ulta Beauty has gifts for everyone on your list. Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte Tilbury and Peach and Lily. Go all out with timeless fragrances from ysl, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera. And you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty gift card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here. Hablas espanol spries du dzoi nosque.
- [95:07]
D
If you used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation based techniques teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel.
- [95:28]
C
Subscription right now at Babbel.com Spotify spelled.
- [95:31]
D
B A B-B-E-L.com Spotify rules and restrictions may apply.
- [95:35]
B
Well, we need to go up on high next to the acronym and we need to get into the U turn vote. Now, before we get into specifics, there has been so much talk between Tucker and Eric and Phil about how long this thing went on for. Can you go into a bit more detail as to, like, what we missed out on? Was it just the same beats being hit again and again and again?
- [95:59]
D
Well, I do. I do want to say, like, you did miss me pausing all of production and asking if we could have a couple minutes to campaign if they were really going to do a Big Brother season. I was like, talk like, like, we're voting. Let's talk like, yeah, yeah.
- [96:13]
C
Izzy started it. And then the cast was, like, begging, like, give us 10 minutes.
- [96:16]
B
Let us.
- [96:17]
D
Let's coordinate. Let us coordinate.
- [96:18]
C
And like, they were like, everyone freeze. And they all went, they talked about it, and then they came back and Phil was like, we can.
- [96:25]
D
I think it was more. Yeah, I mean, it was like everyone right off the bat, you know, team separated, and we had a certain allotted time amongst ourselves to like, like, figure out who we're gonna vote for. Whatever. Very easy decision. And then when we went back, it was like the initial filming of the very first reveal of the votes. Everyone had very long speeches to give, you know, so that was very Big Brother. And, like, so that took a long time. But of course, they need different angles. We're making tv. And so, like, that reveal and that thing we did, we did maybe like three or four times. And, you know, everyone's not giving the same speech, but they do need you to say something, and so everyone's still saying something. So that took a long time. When we realized that it was, like, app, you know, it was absolutely being deadlocked, and so we needed to vote again. We did all of that all over again. Went and conferred with your teammate, came back, did a reveal, and everyone's like, oh, all hot and bothered and, like, you know, saying all the things. And then we filmed that a couple times.
- [97:28]
C
Yeah. Yeah. We were there for quite, quite a long time. I don't think there are any, like, major, major beats that you missed. The, like, the Taylor Jag stuff went on for quite a bit longer than.
- [97:41]
D
What was shown, but it's the same. But it was.
- [97:43]
B
But.
- [97:44]
C
But you got there just a bit. You did miss at one point. So we had Jag and Jazz on our right and Taylor island on our left, and they were, like, arguing over us. And at one point, it was, like, spiraling so much into oblivion that we, like, locked eyes with the camera and just, like, started making out. Yeah. And we just, like, thought it was kind of funny, you know, like, we got. We got one producer to break. We got one.
- [98:09]
D
Yeah. One person was like, you know, like.
- [98:11]
B
And, like.
- [98:12]
C
Yeah, of course that was obviously not gonna make the show, but we had.
- [98:15]
B
A. Oh, my God. That'd be like, the perfect meme of, like, people heated in front of them. Just, like, whatever's going on in the back.
- [98:22]
C
Yeah. It was, like, literally over us.
- [98:24]
D
Yeah.
- [98:27]
C
Yeah. So I think that's the only thing you miss. It was just. It was just more of the same. Yeah.
- [98:31]
B
All right, well, of course, we've got to hit your involvement in all of this, which, as you said, easy vote for Jag and Jess returning the favor and then some. But you probably did not expect it, another U turn vote to be thrown your way, especially after, as you mentioned, the speech that Taylor gave. So I'd love to hear sort of your reaction in the moment. And did you feel compelled to have a reaction to her in that moment as well?
- [98:53]
C
So, first of all, like, we. We didn't expect to go without bows.
- [98:56]
E
Yeah.
- [98:57]
C
So, like, the concept. The concept of getting a vote was not at all off the table for us.
- [99:02]
D
Yeah.
- [99:02]
E
But you didn't get one from Jazz and Jack.
- [99:04]
C
Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, we.
- [99:07]
B
Well, I think after, from what I heard in that plane, I don't know if they'd want to do that again.
- [99:10]
C
Yeah, no, I think we scared the shit out of them. Yeah. Yeah.
- [99:13]
B
No, no, no.
- [99:14]
C
And we had Had a couple more talks since then and they, you know, had, like, acknowledged and like, we didn't.
- [99:19]
D
Come to a. Yeah. A respectful place at that point.
- [99:22]
C
Yeah, yeah. And. And I, like, I really do think that our u turn vote for them. Like, as much we would have loved to, like, get a great shot back, but it was just the obvious vot.
- [99:30]
D
Yeah.
- [99:31]
C
And at this point, we didn't know Nat and Steph had one in Kutna Horror, like, three. So we legitimately believed that only two teams had one leg so far on this.
- [99:41]
D
Well, and they did. I mean, like, Jag and Jazz plan didn't work because no one knew that they let Nat.
- [99:45]
B
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.
- [99:48]
D
Are also good at these games.
- [99:49]
C
Yeah. You know, they just didn't tell anyone they want, you know, so. So we all, like, understood that only two teams had one leg so far in this race. So, like, we were gonna and vote for those two teams. So, like, you know, and we've talked to Jag and Jazz about those. Like, we didn't really even get a lick back at you guys. Like, we were just doing the obvious thing.
- [100:06]
D
I mean, in some ways, we were under the impression that it was going to be basically unanimous the way we were voting. Like, we thought we were voting with the house. Can you believe wouldn't be a Big.
- [100:16]
B
Brother 25 cast if we didn't talk about some sort of unanimous vote.
- [100:21]
D
I hate you.
- [100:25]
C
But yeah, so, like, we weren't all that, like, like shocked even, or were like, you know, we hadn't been working with. With Taylor, you know, they'd been keeping their distance from us, which, like, we respected, you know, so, like, you know, we weren't that worried about fundamentally seeing our faces, you know, it like.
- [100:42]
D
Yeah, it don't say the speech like that was what it was for me. Don't. Especially when for me, like, I just felt like everything we were doing in the race was with our actions to uplift the other women in the race.
- [100:59]
B
Yeah.
- [100:59]
D
I don't care if anyone, if no one else wants to do that. That's how we were running, like. And. And I think it bugged me. It bugged me that she used that in that moment.
- [101:10]
C
Yeah.
- [101:12]
D
While also knowing very well that she u turned us.
- [101:15]
B
Yeah. Right.
- [101:16]
D
So that to me is like, I.
- [101:18]
C
Don'T, you know, it's like nobody owes anybody anything, but if in one moment you can have no problem with u turning us and then a moment later tell another team that it was like anti woman to u turn you, it's like, oh, why. Why do the same rules of womanhood, like, not apply to us?
- [101:38]
D
Yeah.
- [101:39]
C
You know, and so, yeah, it just, like in that moment, like, we felt, you know, we felt very unseen, you know, which. And that was heartbreaking. But, like, but we still weren't inherently mad about the vote. That's fine, you know, but if you can understand how, like, hard it is as yourself to be a woman in this game and think that you deserve a certain sort of special treatment for that, and then you look over at two people dealing with that and don't see why they would deserve. Deserve that same treatment, you know, it's like, damn. Damn.
- [102:13]
B
Yeah.
- [102:14]
D
You know, and I think, you know, I think link. I think words matter, you know, and I just. I'll never. I'll say it. I don't care. I'm gonna say it. I'll never get it out. Ringing in my ears. Her saying, it is so hard to be a woman at the top of this game. As if our struggle from the back to be standing in the same place she was. Was.
- [102:35]
C
Was less valuable.
- [102:36]
D
Was less valuable.
- [102:37]
C
Yeah.
- [102:37]
D
So, you know, as someone that, like, struggles in these games and in the world, to be taken seriously and to be seen. Oh, man, it's like, really devastating, you know, that feels devastating. Especially from someone so powerful. I'll say it, you know, Especially from someone so powerful.
- [102:54]
C
Yeah. So, yeah.
- [102:57]
B
Was there an opportunity for. For you to and Taylor to clear the air after the season was over or after that that u turn vote happened, considering your feelings towards it?
- [103:05]
D
We talked off. Off Mike right at the finish line and we. We haven't talked since.
- [103:13]
B
Okay, well, then when this deadlock mode happens, I want to get your perspective because you're. You're out of the fray at this point. You know, you know what's. What's happening. But again, whether or not you were making out again, there was a lot going on around you. I mean, did you think that things would be organized in a way to have it deadlocked? Were you surprised by the results of having half the casket?
- [103:33]
D
You turned what team standing there? I mean, I guess other than three. Don't want three teams u turned at that point.
- [103:40]
C
Well, no, that's not what you believed before. That's not what you believe.
- [103:43]
D
I wanted three teams u turn.
- [103:44]
C
No, no, that's not true. We. You were. No, that is not true. You were all in on, like, send the boys against each other so one of them goes home.
- [103:54]
D
But I'm not bad that three teams are u turned. That doesn't mean that we Were going to change our vote.
- [103:58]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but, like, our hope was for just the two guy teams.
- [104:03]
D
Okay, sure.
- [104:04]
C
You understand that's like, strategically sound.
- [104:06]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [104:07]
C
I mean.
- [104:07]
D
Yes.
- [104:08]
C
But then ultimately you were. We were happy that. Yes. It was anyone but us. Yeah.
- [104:12]
D
I think that's all I'm saying.
- [104:13]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [104:14]
D
It wasn't going to change our vote to try and be the ones to force that.
- [104:17]
B
Yeah.
- [104:18]
D
But I was not mad that three. Anyway.
- [104:21]
C
Yeah.
- [104:21]
D
The petty part of me was super.
- [104:22]
B
Happy considering what just happened. Like, oh, well, turnbutt's fair play, of course.
- [104:27]
D
But of course, the always the goal for us on that leg was that either Tucker and Eric or Jackson and Jazz went home. Like that. That was our ultimate. What we wanted.
- [104:36]
B
Yeah.
- [104:36]
D
That was the goal the whole time. Yeah.
- [104:38]
B
Well, it's interesting because later on in the leg, as you're making your way to the olives, you see Jag and Jazz, and it's this really palpable moment for both of you where I think. I would imagine that you both were like, okay, we finally have a chance at, you know, disadvantaging these guys that have been out in front the entire time and they just passed us. And I can't imagine how frustrated you were.
- [104:59]
C
That had already happened. That realization had already happened as, like, as soon as we finally finished the U turn vote, Phil, like, pointed to the Acropolis and he was like, now run there. And we were like, seriously?
- [105:11]
D
We're like, you know, we gonna be.
- [105:13]
C
Last, you know, and so, like, that.
- [105:15]
D
We know we're gonna be last.
- [105:16]
C
The realization you're talking about happened sort of immediately the moment Bill said go. You know, like, we were. We were both pretty injured. I was pretty injured from the sheep thing, and Izzy's knees were really struggling. And, like, and now we were going to go do this, like, you know, trail run.
- [105:35]
D
I was so mad.
- [105:36]
C
Yeah. And, yeah. So we knew right then and there, we were like, it's over. Like, this U turn doesn't matter. Like, and so it was heartbreaking, but the realization had happened sooner than. Yeah. Than it maybe looks like on tv.
- [105:50]
D
Yeah.
- [105:51]
B
I mean, you brought this up. We have to get into your knees, Izzy, because this is something that Paige, I know you posted about, especially in lieu of everything that happened with the boulder in this leg. So talk a bit about what you were afflicted with over the course of this race.
- [106:03]
D
Well, I mean, you know, I. Maybe people don't realize this, but when I was a kid, I very much was an athlete. Like, I I swam competitively. Swam at the junior Olympics once. Pretty proud of that. I was an avid basketball player. Played. I played a year of college basketball on my college team. Like I was serious about it. And I had had some knee. My left knee is busted because of all of it, you know. And on the second leg of the race, I fell while we were leaving the Zizkov television tower. Getting back into the stairwell, I was just in a tizzy and like the adrenaline was pumping and I had all of our bags and she just did this crazy thing and, and I didn't realize that like the step was double, triple wide to get into the stairwell. And so I landed full force plus bags like lock kneed and, and fell on my ass. The only reason there's no shot of it is because they didn't have one. Like the camera was still not.
- [106:57]
C
I was between izz.
- [106:59]
D
But I felt bad, bad and I felt a twinge, you know, Like I felt all the thing. I was like, oh man, okay, well we gotta keep going. And from that point on, like every pit stop we got to. And then after every interview at the end of the leg, just sitting there cold, like my knees had swelled up quite a bit. So she had like two grapefruits. Yeah. And so I spent like the beginning of our time in the hotel in between pit stops like crazy icing and stretching and like doing stuff. So I was in a lot of pain while moving like on this. And the cobblestone doesn't help, you know. And this was, I would say since Prague, this was the most strenuous on foot leg that we had had. And it was this trail run over rocks and uneven, you know, terrain and then the cobblestone in the streets and yeah, I was, I was in a lot of pain that leg. And yes, and we get to Sisyphus, you know. Yeah, um, yeah, we get to Sisyphus. And it wasn't so much that the boulder was inherently heavy. It actually would have been maybe easier if it was a little bit more sturdy. Um, it was kind of like a massive yoga ball which meant that every time you pushed it, the, the boulder absorbed your push. So there was no momentum gained. Every push was a brand.
- [108:16]
C
It wasn't rigid. It was like pushing a pillow kind of.
- [108:19]
B
Yeah, okay.
- [108:20]
D
And so that was like so taxing on the body. And maybe I don't, I shouldn't actually say what distance I think it was. The trek was a lot longer than maybe we had envisioned when we started.
- [108:33]
C
And it was like one of those, it was one of those fake outs where, like, oh, we're almost at the.
- [108:37]
B
Top of the hill.
- [108:38]
C
Oh, and there's another hill, you know, and. Yeah, I. I mean, I'll say. I like, it just, like, is really taxing on your shoulders and, like, your back muscles, and I don't have those. Like, I'm. I'm biological anomaly. I have zero of those. They don't exist. I just have bones. And so I started pushing and, like, I mean, in my memory, it's like 30 seconds in my arms. I, like, couldn't lift my arms.
- [109:01]
D
It was longer than that. But. Yeah, but I maxed out.
- [109:04]
C
I just truly got to the point where I, like, couldn't. I couldn't lift my arms anymore. Like, they just weren't helping. And I was, like, pushing with my hand. I was like, stop. Because I just, like, wanted to. I didn't want to leave her alone. And, like, my body was not functioning. And, like, she just did it. She just did the whole thing. Did it.
- [109:26]
D
That was another proud moment. I mean, like, something that is not clear in the edit because I think it would show how messed up this challenge was. But we arrived at Sisyphus with Tucker and Eric. We were there at the same time. Now think about how long they was at that roadblock before our asses showed up. You know what I mean? Like, that's a long. They.
- [109:46]
C
Anyway, we literally just very hard go ahead of us, you know, like, we didn't. We didn't try and get our ball there first to, like, block them or anything because we were like, they're just gonna run us over. Like, they're gonna.
- [109:56]
E
Literally.
- [109:56]
C
It is in our best interest for our health to just let them go and, like.
- [110:00]
D
Yeah.
- [110:01]
B
So I know this episode. You also posted on chat BCC that you had a very ordinary situation with a cab driver that was incredibly disgusting. And look, you are certainly not the first or the last amazing way 38 cast member to experience that, but feel free to enlighten us about what that was.
- [110:16]
D
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, like, you know, in different ways, different types of teams really struggled with cabs on this race. And, you know, for us, we learned. I mean, we know this in real life, but we learned very quickly on the race. Like, Paige is the person to approach the strangers, not me. You know what I mean? Like, I'm coming in hot. Look at my face. Like, you know, she's the one to ask for directions, and then I come in later and. But the way that you're forced to sit. We were forced to sit in the Cab meant that she was directly behind the driver, and I was always in the middle being the one conversing with the cab drivers, you know, and that we had mixed bags of, like, people that were into that or not, you know? And in Greece, we struggled a lot our cab drive to, like, the. To the U turn vote. Like, we thought. We joked with our camera people, like, we're not sure if we're in a hostage situation because he, like, refused, confused. So talk.
- [111:14]
C
Yeah, we, like, talk to us. We told him. We told him this is where we want to go, and, like, showed him the address, and he was like, yeah, yeah, get on in. And then we start driving and we go, okay, so just confirming. We're gonna go to this parking lot, not that one. Right? And he just kept driving and, like. And so Izzy was, like, pushing him and pushing him and being like, hey, man, so are we going here? And finally he just snapped and he goes, woman, sh. Shut up. I was like. And we were like.
- [111:44]
D
I was like, I guess we're gonna go wherever he taking us.
- [111:46]
C
Yeah. Like, yeah. And that's when we said to the camera, we were like, so we're in, like, a casual hostage situation. And, like. And I mean, it. He ended up taking us to the right place, and that was, you know, to where we did the U turn boat. So it, like, it did, you know, like, we're very lucky. It didn't have a direct impact on our race, but it certainly had an impact on, like, like, mental state.
- [112:06]
B
Yeah.
- [112:07]
D
Feel good, you know?
- [112:08]
C
Yeah.
- [112:09]
D
Yeah. And our. And our. The cab driver that then took us to Sisyphus, that then was there and waited for the roadblock, was also fairly, like, just non communicative with us and was kind of, like, upset at our presence and. Yeah, yeah, that was hard.
- [112:26]
C
I mean, you know, like, something we experienced, like, kind of plot as like, a through line is like, when. When, like, two women show up somewhere and, like, a tizzy, like, any man is gonna. Gonna be like, especially you, Mike. It's gonna. No, it's gonna be like, whoa, whoa, ladies, like, calm down. Yeah, calm it down. You know, so if we get in a cab, like, go, go, go. The cab driver is gonna go, whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you. Yeah, like, let's. Let's bring it back down. Whereas when. When two big dudes get in a cab and say, like, mission impossible, let's go. Yeah, you know, like, so we, like, realized, and it just became a part of our race and, like, part of the reason that I was, like, our. Our front person with interacting with strangers and especially men was like, that we need to level ourselves and we need to, like, tone police ourselves, like, before we approach these men or else they are going to do it for us.
- [113:27]
D
Well, and actually, like, after leg one, we stopped asking men for directions. We, like, almost exclusively. Exclusively got directions from women.
- [113:35]
C
Yeah, like, multiple men in Amsterdam accused us of trying to rob them.
- [113:41]
D
So we have a camera because I.
- [113:42]
C
Bring my wife and a camera crew to rob people of their cell phones.
- [113:46]
D
Crazy.
- [113:47]
C
Yeah. So, like. Yeah, yeah. Men were not, like, receptive to the energy of, like, two women with urgency. Their instinct was to calm it and to, like, you know, put us back in a. More. More like polite headspace, you know, so. And that's. That's just part of the race.
- [114:05]
D
You kind of have to.
- [114:06]
E
You have to code switch.
- [114:07]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally. And we. We are not by any means the only team that dealt with that.
- [114:14]
E
You know, I have heard more crazy cab stories from this season than I think, like, the previous 37 combined.
- [114:20]
C
Yeah, well, I think we also had, like, a. A rather diverse season, so.
- [114:25]
B
Or they might. Might have not been Big Brother. Other fans, they just. I can't believe these people are on this season.
- [114:32]
E
So did Big Brother ever come up while you were, like, with the general public? I mean, like, obviously you all know each other. Was on Big Brother.
- [114:41]
D
Well, a couple times. There was one time in Croatia on the U turn leg, actually. This was so funny. There was this woman that came. Is he from Big Brother? And like, an American. American tourist. And a bunch of teams actually talked about, like, a. Oh, did you. Did you hear that? Woman that was like, knew all about Big Brother. And after we got u turned and we were running to try to find someone to ask for directions, I saw that woman and I was like. I ran up to her and I was like, jag Baines, u turned us. We gotta get here. Give us your phone. Like, let's go, let's go.
- [115:09]
C
She handed over her phone. Jag is here.
- [115:12]
D
Yeah. And I was like, Oh, my God. That was funny as hell. Like, that was so funny.
- [115:22]
B
You thought you had one over on them. Like, okay, listen, you called me out, so I'm calling you. They're like, oh, my God. Wait, Jack is here. Jag's here.
- [115:28]
D
And then, dad, insult to injury. Her phone did not have service. And we were like, we got to go.
- [115:33]
C
Why did you give us this phone?
- [115:35]
D
What are you doing?
- [115:36]
B
Wow.
- [115:38]
D
Jag's employees are everywhere.
- [115:39]
B
Yeah, well, you were feeling the heat then, and we got to get into Italy, when you were feeling the heat. So I know you've talked a little bit about this, Izzy. The difficulties in doing that flower Roadblock, obviously, we see that manifest in a very different way with Adam, but give me a bit of your perspective, both in doing the Roadblock as well as, like, the elements that were happening.
- [115:56]
D
I mean, it was the first time we experienced heat on this race. It had been a cold, rainy race, and for the first time, it was hot as hell, and we were just in direct sun. I mean, it was shocking.
- [116:08]
C
And they were shockingly hot. The white gravel was then just reflecting the sun right back up. They were, like, in a little. You see, big oven.
- [116:16]
D
Yeah, it was. It was. I mean, that was. It felt extreme given the conditions that we had been in previously. And because of the conditions, just, like the sort of mechanics of the Roadblock were be, like. Became increasingly frustrating because, like, as you clipped the flowers to then pin them in the thing or get them under the chicken wire. Yeah. With the heat, the. The. The stem that you clip would then sort of start to peel itself back.
- [116:45]
C
It would, like, wilt.
- [116:46]
D
And so you sort of stopped having, like, a stick, you know, like. Or an actual stem to, like, weave through anything. So, I mean, that's. I mean, that was one of my struggles was getting some of these flowers to just, like, stay in the chicken wire because they would just, like, melt out, and you could see them fraying. So I oftentimes in between my checks, I actually just, like, redid some of the yellow flowers to be like, well, those are going to fall off, so let me just put a new one on. Because they just kept falling off. And. And it was actually like, I know everyone's gonna be like, these people can't count. Oh, my God. These flowers were so intertwined on the bodice that, like, it was actually, as you're counting, super hard to tell. Oh, shit. Is that. Is this now a new flower, or is that actually that leaf still a part of that flower? Like, it wasn't as obvious on the bodice part. My. My counting errors were all on the skirt. And on the bodice, there were pins that pin one pin per flower. And I ended up actually just counting the pins. I didn't even count the flowers because I was like, I can't even tell where these flowers start or end, so I'm just going to count these pins. But on the skirt, it was a little bit more, like, complicated than that. But, yeah, I mean, it was just, like, you had to go slow and you had to be patient.
- [118:06]
B
And.
- [118:06]
D
And, you know, I mean, those are not words that people use when they describe me. I think, like, we absolutely made the right choice in me doing this roadblock, you know, like. But, yeah, it was like, the heat was getting to me. I'm not a hot person. Like, I like the cold. You know, I was happy. I was the only one in shorts the whole race. I was thrilled with the cold, but, yeah, it was hot. I was definitely distracted thinking about Adam the whole time. You know, I mean, I think all of us carried a little bit of Adam with us every leg. Thinking about him, especially, like, the abdominals are just so wonderful. And we actually really specifically got. Got close with Adam, and so I was definitely thinking about him a ton while doing it, and that feels complicated. Feels complicated to try.
- [118:52]
C
Yeah. Everyone was advocating for him to get moved to the shape long before they moved him to the shade. Like, like, all of us on the sidelines or we're just like, just do it. Like, that's not how we're trying to win this.
- [119:06]
B
Like, right?
- [119:07]
C
And, yeah, I think production just got held up with, like, well, how do we frame this? How do we, like, do we have to move everyone? And everyone's like, just.
- [119:14]
D
Just do it, you know?
- [119:16]
C
And, like, yeah. Yeah. So it. Yeah, it was. You know, and it's hard to, like, it's hard to continue feeling competitive when you watch that happening. It is, like, hard to want to keep going.
- [119:29]
D
Was.
- [119:29]
C
Yeah.
- [119:29]
D
But I. You know, I will say. And I know there were some clips in there that maybe it's like, oh, man, get your head in the game. But, like, I. I wanted to be specifically competitive with Jag and Jazz, you know? Like, I felt like we showed up there and this was our moment, you know, like, let's get ahead of them, you know, because we had been thinking a lot of times where it's like, if we could just get ahead, we probably could stay ahead, you know, like, we just wanted to get ahead. And so I know that I was. I had mentioned Jag and Jazz quite a bit in the beginning of that leg, and it. But I think it's because, like, yeah, it wasn't, like, animosity or beef. It was like, the people winning this race. And I want to win this race.
- [120:10]
B
Yeah.
- [120:11]
D
Want to win. And so I think I was feeling like we finally are at this roadblock at the same time. This could be the moment. Yeah.
- [120:17]
C
Well, and also that was right around when it was, like, really cemented and really clear that they were bringing Joseph and Adam everywhere.
- [120:26]
B
Okay.
- [120:27]
C
And so it was, like, frustration that we. It was like kind of this two against one. And, like, once again, we love Joseph and Adam, and, like, we were so happy to compete with them, but, like, we felt like we were stuck, like, behind this, like, kind of immovable force. And it's like. And we showed up, and there was two cars there, and we were like. And that's it. And they came together. Yeah, it's like, you know, and annoying. That was, like, hard to stomach because we had just done, like, this pretty complicated navigating, and we did good, you know, and she.
- [120:56]
D
Okay, I will say this because you did amazing. And I know we did this together, but I did the first part. You did the second part, which I think is amazing. We. We had already. When we knew we were flying to Milan, we had quite a long way before our flight, Like, a long time before our flight. And a lot of teams went to sleep fairly early at the airport, and we. We stayed up and we found someone to use their phone, and we use their phone, and we thought, okay, we're going to Milan. We don't know what we're doing next. Like, the clue on this one didn't say what was happening next. And so we thought, oh, the race hasn't gone here in a long time, and this is how you would get to Lake Como. And we weren't sure what the route through Europe was, but we thought we could hit Switzerland. You know what I mean? So we were like. So we got directions to Lake Como, driving and by train. And we got directions into downtown Milan, like, into the center of the city.
- [121:46]
C
Yeah, we had options going.
- [121:47]
D
Yeah, we had options going in. And when we landed, Jack and Chelsea followed us, but we were the only team that immediately got in a car and knew how to get.
- [121:58]
C
Yeah, we saw central Milan so desperately to get away and, like, to be able to do it independently that we literally got in the car and drove off and drove.
- [122:06]
D
And I'm just really proud of that. And we got to. We got into the city. City. And we had stopped once and got kind of, like, not real directions. Like, we weren't.
- [122:15]
C
Well, yeah, we. We were like, okay, we're. We're in central Milan, and we know this place is in central Milan. Let's pull over now. Get a phone and get direct. Get directions to where we're going, and we pull it up on a phone, and it is like, 900 steps of, like, left, right, left, right. Do a little.
- [122:31]
D
We're so in a place that it's, like, crazy like this, and, like, yeah.
- [122:34]
C
And it was. It was just like, okay, we could go through the steps of trying to write this down, but, like, the reality of us following this is not going to be good.
- [122:40]
D
It was unrealistic.
- [122:41]
C
But this place is on the other side of the city.
- [122:44]
D
It's, like, northeast of us. Whatever it was, we were like, we.
- [122:47]
C
Got to get to the northeast corner of the city.
- [122:48]
D
And so we just used our knowledge of how a city is laid out and a compass, and we got within. Like, we finally then stopped at a hotel because we were like, okay, we must be near the area. We were, like, five minutes.
- [123:01]
C
Yeah.
- [123:01]
D
From where?
- [123:01]
C
Yeah, we looked. The phone said it would take, like, 40 minutes to get there. And so they were like, let's go northeast for 35 minutes.
- [123:08]
D
Yeah.
- [123:09]
C
Like, and we just kind of, like, some educated guesses and, like, got really, really close, and so then we only had to write down a little bit.
- [123:16]
D
I was proud of that. I thought we did.
- [123:17]
B
Yeah.
- [123:17]
D
You know, so anyway. Yeah.
- [123:19]
C
Yeah.
- [123:19]
B
All right. Well, it's time we finally get to France. So something that we need to talk about is something that. Exactly. Who knows at this point? You're great navigators. We don't even need to talk about it. But the thing we need to start with is something that Izzy, you alluded to in my interview with you, which is the cancan task. And this was something that, unfortunately, it's sort of like a series of unfortunate events that leads to being eliminated. And it kind of starts here, where you don't leave in last place, but it certainly does bring you down to the back. And it's interesting compared to that first dance task. Right. Like, slower is faster. You get it in one try. So I would love to hear a bit about your experience and in particular, the costuming and how that affected your. Your performance.
- [124:01]
D
Yeah, you know, it's, like, a complicated thing to talk about. You know, it feels like a unique. Unfortunately, it's a unique experience on reality TV to be dealing with this. We knew that we were going to face costumes on the race. Going into the race, like, we're no dummies when it comes to the race we prepare and all this stuff. But, Jess, I mean, both of you might remember the gold bathing suit, the gold bikini, and gold little speedos in Dubai on the. The slide thing. Slide. And honestly, the minute we got the call, that scene flashed before my eyes, and I was like, honestly, more so than skydiving, this was my fear, and, like, this was my fear because. Because it's like, yeah, I'm a woman. Who wears men's clothes. I'm a woman who feels feminine, being masculine. Masculine. That's who I am. And so many people, we exist. The butchers are out there. Don't erase the butchers. And I think, like, what's scary for me is, like, being put in the bathing suit or being put in this corset sort of, like, affirms people that say I'm wrong, you know, because, like, they look at me and I'm. I use she, her pronouns, and I'm a woman, woman. And so we are. We're very binary, and we're like, well, she should be wearing the dress. And when I'm in the dress, I look like a fucking idiot, you know, Like, I look out of body. I look wrong. I feel wrong. And that affirms that there's something wrong with me because a woman is supposed to look good in the dress, you know, And. And, like, yeah, my. I. All I wanted was to feel the same way in a costume that every other person felt in a costume, you know? And I had advocated for myself before the show and tried to explain, like, hey, yeah, this is very uncomfortable for me, and other people don't have to do this, but I'm a butch woman, and these are the type of underwear I wear. I'm a butch woman, and I wear men's clothes, and I'm a butch woman. And so when we come to these challenges, I should be wearing the men's clothes.
- [126:14]
C
And.
- [126:15]
D
And right.
- [126:16]
C
Like, if you're looking to treat me the way you will be treating every other contestant, that will mean wearing men's clothing. If the point of the challenge is for someone to be in drag, like, sure, then put me in whatever the hell you want. But, like, if you are looking to treat me the way everyone else on this race is going to be treated, you're going to put Izzy and pants.
- [126:36]
D
Yeah. And so it's like, I honestly, like, you know, have worked very hard to be confident in who I am. And, like, I'm so. Probably for the first time in my life, like, this is what I look like. Like, I've found I am me. Like, I love me. And I loved watching us back on the race. I said this before, like, wow, I never felt like I would see myself on tv, because I didn't necessarily feel this way on Big Brother, but I feel like I watched myself on the race. I'm like, damn, that's me. I love what it looks like. I think it looks good. I think it looks strong. I think it looks in love Like, I like all these things. And then we get there and, like, it was just so dysphoric. It was just so. Once again, you're not meant to be here. Once again, you're not meant to win this race. You know, it just felt like, I don't know, it's so that you can't help but let that get in your head. And then on top of that, the costume itself was just so imbalanced compared to the men. Like, the dress was heavy, Heavy. And because I was technically everybody dancing the male role and had to lift Paige, I also had to learn how to, like, in account of music, get the skirt under my. Under my arm so then I could then lift.
- [127:54]
C
Choreographer invented, like, while we were, like, learning together, she, like, invented. Okay, so what you'll do is actually. Actually just hike your dress up and tuck it under your armpit so that you can lift her up.
- [128:05]
D
And it's like. And so just. We're talking about inequity. You know, it's like you don't want to deal or touch the identity of it and why that's important here.
- [128:15]
E
Make everybody wear a sweater.
- [128:17]
D
Yes. Also the can. Can. Why is not everybody there in the iconic can.
- [128:22]
B
Exactly.
- [128:24]
D
So, like, that element is just like, yeah. We wonder why there's been. How many. Is it five seasons now? Or I guess we're waiting for 39. How many seasons in a row of all male teams winning this race? We're not the problem. Women are not the problem.
- [128:39]
E
They're not worse at racing.
- [128:40]
D
Your men are not superior at racing. How many times. I mean, I love watching these old seasons of the race with those straight couples where the man is so competitive, and it's like, are you not watching the woman is doing this entire race for you.
- [128:53]
C
We watched the first two seasons of the race, and, like, in. In, like, coed couples, predominantly, the woman is doing every road, every Roadblock.
- [129:03]
D
But so it's like, yeah, so on all counts, it's like, ah, this not for you. At a time when we are, like, for the first time ever, feeling the most socially, like, oh, man. I mean, Joseph, Adam, Taylor, Kyland, Jag and Jack, like, no matter the beef with the U Turn, that's a squad, you know what I mean? They've been supporting each other in life and all this race, and so there we are, and then we get to this thing, and it's like, oh, man. It's like we're trying so hard to stay confident, and I don't know, no one seems to care.
- [129:33]
B
Right?
- [129:34]
D
Like, so, yeah, so that was really hard. I was really proud. I mean, honestly, watching it back. No shade, ain't nobody on time. I think we did a great job with our dance.
- [129:44]
C
I think we nailed the dance, actually.
- [129:45]
D
Like, I think we nailed the dance and we actually.
- [129:48]
C
Part of one of the many, many layers that made it really hard was actually on our second attempt, we. We nailed the dance.
- [129:57]
D
We got it right.
- [129:58]
C
We got a note on how you enter the stage before the dance.
- [130:03]
D
Exactly. Mike Bloom.
- [130:04]
B
I didn't realize the dance started before the dance.
- [130:07]
C
Exactly.
- [130:07]
D
Mike Bloom. We didn't know either.
- [130:09]
C
Yeah. And.
- [130:10]
D
And that was heartbreaking.
- [130:11]
C
The judge kind of like, you know, it was like this. He was smug, you know, I love.
- [130:17]
D
That he didn't give it to us.
- [130:18]
C
Yeah, yeah. And, like, we got this kind of, like, smug, like, keep dancing. Die. Keep dying. But that's what we heard, you know, and so, you know, going from that high of, like, we did it. It's over. To actually, we can make you keep doing this was. Was just kind of the final, like, emotional nail in the coffin. Like, we didn't know it was over. We did not stop fighting.
- [130:45]
D
No, but, like.
- [130:46]
C
But that really kind of cemented the energy. We were gonna wrestle.
- [130:50]
D
Like, we exited the stage after that one, and I literally shouted fuck. The loudest I shouted in my entire life.
- [130:58]
C
I was, like, still on stage, walking off.
- [131:00]
D
I was like.
- [131:01]
C
She hit the wing and went.
- [131:03]
D
I was so mad because I was like.
- [131:06]
C
And that was like. Yeah. And I, like, obviously, in that. In that moment, I was going to give her whatever she, like, needed, but I was just like, yeah, no, it's going bad now.
- [131:15]
B
Okay, Got it.
- [131:16]
C
Yeah.
- [131:16]
D
I just wanted to get out. I wanted to be done. I wanted to keep doing, you know, I wanted. Yeah, yeah.
- [131:21]
B
So.
- [131:21]
D
So anyway, that's the deal with the Moulin Rouge. And, like. Yeah, I don't. You know, I don't like to blame. Listen, they didn't put any of this in the show. But my entire mat talk with Phil, that leg was. This was my fault. This is my fault. I'm gonna have to live with this for the rest of my life. This was my fault.
- [131:34]
B
Oh, my God.
- [131:35]
D
Like, this is my fault, you know, because I also had the opportunity. I think I nailed the Braille challenge. And actually, a camera person did say, izzy, you did complete it the fastest out of anyone. Yeah, but it's like. But could I have gotten out before Taylor if I hadn't, you know, if I had just caught that one thing, you know, it was only ever one Fucking thing anyway. But I just felt really responsible, you know, And I stand by our decision. For me to do the braille, I was the right person for the braille. The braille was, like, easy for me. It was very much like a flute. It felt like playing the flute, you know, the way that the dots were laid out, very similar. I was like, oh, man. I genuinely was having a great time doing it, which was equally hard. I'm glad that maybe made it into the show. This juxtaposition of, like, wow, this is my favorite one I've done. And also this. My life is over. You know.
- [132:27]
B
I just. I just need to take a moment to say, like, how. How brave what you were talking about was. Like, thank you. Like, I know you said that it felt odd to bring words to, like, contextualize a lot of stuff that you have been wrestling with for decades, but it explains a lot. I think you did a really great job of explaining not only why you feel the way you do, but why, again, some elements in this race that were not created to make you feel uncomfortable did and how that. That. That can really fuss with your mental at a point where you need it the most. And I do want to speak to your part, Paige, about now. Even knowing that context, seeing that moment where, like, you have her by the shoulders and you're like. Like, it is supposed to feel like this, you know, like, that. That just really affirms to me, again, why, like, you two are so perfect for each other is because I think you really saw her in that moment, and you. You knew how to be supportive of her, and you knew how to be there for her in a time where you just had to put your head down in an incredibly uncomfortable and unfair situation and just do the damn thing because there's no other way to do it.
- [133:32]
C
Oh, my. Thank you.
- [133:34]
E
Yeah.
- [133:34]
D
Thank you, Mike.
- [133:36]
C
Thank you. Damn. Yeah. Thank you.
- [133:41]
B
Yeah.
- [133:41]
C
I mean, I. Thank you for saying I've actually. Actually gone back and forth. Like, we haven't really talked about this, but I've gone back and forth about that clip of me saying it's supposed to feel like this because. Because it's not, you know, And I, like, when I saw that on the episode, I was like, why did I say that? Like, actually, like, I. We knew that what was happening was not fair or equitable at all, and it's not supposed to feel like that, you know, And I think I was talking about, like, the overwhelmed sensation of everything.
- [134:10]
B
That's exactly it.
- [134:11]
C
Yeah, but. But, yeah, it. Like, no, it was a Good thing to say.
- [134:15]
D
I wasn't upset about that.
- [134:16]
C
Yeah.
- [134:17]
D
You know.
- [134:17]
E
No, it's not.
- [134:18]
D
It's not.
- [134:18]
E
It's supposed to feel like this. As in everything, you know, everything is working out the way it should. It's supposed to feel like this. As in it's okay to feel like this.
- [134:30]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. Damn.
- [134:35]
E
It's normal to feel like this. And logical. And of course you feel like this. This right now.
- [134:40]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [134:41]
E
That's what it meant. And I think we all got that.
- [134:43]
C
Thank you.
- [134:43]
D
Well, so, I mean, I sobbed watching the entire episode 11 in the comfort of our own home, but also, like, so happy because we had just gotten married.
- [134:54]
B
So let's.
- [134:55]
E
Let's talk about this, because this is a great strategy.
- [134:57]
B
This is such a good strategy because you talk about, like, owning.
- [135:01]
D
Okay.
- [135:02]
B
About owning your worst moment. And you did so talk. Talk a bit about. About how, of course, very happy belated nuptials, but talk about how you found that particular day.
- [135:13]
D
I mean, like, the weekend before, you know, the getting called for the race and preparing for the race had already mucked up our getting married plans. We had planned on this year being the sort of planning we weren't going to do a wedding, but we were going to actually, like, pick a date and, like, do it, you know, and we hadn't done that. And it was like, you know, we were nervous for the season to end. And at that point when we decided to get married, we also knew that that episode was going to end on a cliffhanger because they had, like, scheduled our time for exit press the week after. And we're like, okay, we understand what's happening here.
- [135:44]
C
Yeah.
- [135:44]
D
And it was like that previous weekend, and Paige just, like, looked up at me one day and was like, I'm so tired of waiting. And. And I looked at her and I was like, I'm really nervous for Wednesday. What if we get married on Wednesday? And we just, like, went online and literally Googled for the first time? How do we get a marriage license.
- [136:03]
B
And a driver's license? Yeah.
- [136:08]
C
Big year for us in government offices.
- [136:12]
D
Yeah, truly. And then we got violent at City Hall. Right?
- [136:15]
C
Say that again.
- [136:16]
E
You get punch card at City Hall.
- [136:18]
D
Like, yeah, right.
- [136:21]
E
Your 11th bureaucracy is free.
- [136:23]
C
We actually ended up doing, like, our own amazing race of government officers. We planned. I mean, we planned the wedding so late that, like, there weren't appointments available to just, like, go and do this. And so we managed to nab an appointment to get a license in. In Kew Gardens, Queens, like, At, you know, the government office there, so.
- [136:46]
D
City clerks, baby.
- [136:47]
C
So on Tuesday, we, like, took the train all the way out to Kew Gardens and we had the appointment for one o' clock, and we were able to. To book an appointment to get married the following day at 3pm in the Bronx. The catch is there has to be 24 hours between acquiring your license and actually getting married. We show up for our 1pm appointment and they give us a number and we go and sit down and we're like, oh, no. If this takes more than two hours. And like, and we. We got in under the time limit. They gave us the. The marriage license. And then 24 hours later, we went to an entire other borough.
- [137:26]
D
We met Brandon Donlin, shout out friend of lesbian. Okay.
- [137:30]
C
Yeah. Brandon met us in the Bronx.
- [137:32]
D
Brandon met us in the Bronx with a meat in tow. He knows who he's marrying.
- [137:35]
C
You know, he got us a wedding gift and it was just marijuana and that, if you want. And yeah, he was our. He was our one witness. So, like, we got. We got married in this, like, tiny little room with, like, absolutely nothing.
- [137:51]
D
So weird.
- [137:52]
C
And there was like, a flag and then just like one little, like, podium desk that still had, like, a Covid screen. So Shirley. Shout out to Shirley, our officiant. And. And then Brandon was like, in the corner with a cell phone recording thing and, like.
- [138:10]
D
Yeah.
- [138:10]
C
And that's. That's how we got married in the Bronx on Wednesday morning. Yeah.
- [138:13]
D
Yeah.
- [138:14]
C
For Wednesday afternoon. Yeah.
- [138:15]
E
Well, you're gonna have to have, like, something else in every other burrow.
- [138:19]
C
Yeah. We've only got a few more burrows to hit.
- [138:21]
D
Yeah.
- [138:21]
E
I don't know what you're gonna do in Staten island because there's nothing there.
- [138:24]
B
I was just saying, Tommy Bronco's in Staten Island.
- [138:27]
D
I'm gonna go visit Tom.
- [138:28]
C
We'll go visit Tommy. Yeah.
- [138:31]
B
So when it came down to your elimination, do you know how far behind you were from Joseph and Adam?
- [138:35]
D
Not far. They were ushered off the mat. And you know, when that happens, you minutes. They said they saw it that. I mean, I think that drone shot in the episode of Them. I think around that time they saw us there.
- [138:46]
C
Yeah. So it wasn't. It wasn't like a foot race, like some people have tried to say. Oh, my God. So it was a foot race. No, like, we got out of the cab and I think they were about on the mat or already at the mat and like, it was just the. The two minutes to, you know, run up the stairs and across and, you know, so they had gotten to the location probably.
- [139:06]
D
Probably 10 minutes or something.
- [139:07]
C
Yeah, 15, 20 minutes before us. But then they couldn't. They didn't know where Phil was. So, you know, so they were, like, running around, and they, like, left the monument where Phil was and ran across the street to the Eiffel Tower. And all that time we were coming, but they. They made it to the mat probably about when we were getting out of the cab. So, yeah, they saw us running up, and, yeah, Joseph told us that they were ushered off the mat for our arrival. So.
- [139:30]
B
So what was this decompression process like? Because not only. Only are you coming down from the fact that, like, you get eliminated, let alone being, you know, left out of the final leg, but then assuming, like, the next day, you're like, all right, fly back and not fly back anywhere. Fly back to New York City where the final leg is taking place.
- [139:49]
D
Everybody else, I mean, we called it. We got to the mat. We're like, y' all going to New York, aren't you?
- [139:54]
C
In the final cab, when we were, like, pretty sure it was over, but we were still trying to keep up hope, I turned to Izzy and I said, well, we're going to New York either way. Yeah. Like, if we're still in this race, we're going to New York. If we're still in this race, we're going to New York. So, yeah, you know. Yeah, we.
- [140:11]
D
But it was heartbreaking to land in New York and not be able to go to our apartment and literally pass our apartment on the way to Yankee Stadium and, like. Like all this, you know, and it was just like, I hate it. They kept us.
- [140:21]
C
They kept us sequestered. So they, like, blew us to New York and put us in the New Yorker and bought us McDonald's.
- [140:27]
D
Oh, God, I was like, two Big Macs. I want to McFlurry. I want a hash brown. Somehow get that.
- [140:33]
E
That McDonald's, too. Like, that McDonald's in particular.
- [140:37]
C
Yes. Yeah. You know which one that is? Yeah.
- [140:39]
D
Oh, yeah.
- [140:39]
C
Oh, no. We just want. I was like, please, can I just go home and change?
- [140:42]
D
Oh, we were mad, you know? Yeah.
- [140:44]
C
So that was hard.
- [140:45]
D
Yeah.
- [140:45]
B
So then what was the process like for you? Just, like, again, sort of, you know, digesting it all, you know, just. Just realizing that it had all come to an end and that. Yeah, it would. It would. It would be ending, you know, very soon afterwards. Luckily, it was not a lot of time to think it over, but still time to think it over nonetheless.
- [141:03]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we. You know, we filmed the finale. And, like, you know, like, it was a lot of layers of, like, you know, I feel lucky that, like, at the same time we were processing the disappointment, I felt like we were also processing the pride of, like, what we had just done. Like, we. We came into this race with pretty, like, you know, high hopes but low expectations. Yes. You know, and. And, like, we really surprised ourselves and, you know, and we hadn't had a lot of. Of time to think about that.
- [141:33]
D
And I will say so. The night before we filmed finale, this felt very cathartic for me or just very, like, I don't know, affirming, I guess I keep saying that word, but, like, we. They let all of the eliminated teams. Kiki. In the conference room in the hotel where we were at.
- [141:49]
C
Yeah. So they threw everyone back in New York, and they all met us where we were imprisoned in the New Yorker. And.
- [141:54]
D
But then they let us. They were like, hey, we're gonna. We got snacks. And, like, you all can hang out for a little bit. And it's.
- [142:00]
B
Yeah.
- [142:00]
C
They gave us a conference room to just all, like, talk and catch up.
- [142:03]
D
Yeah. And it ended up being a little bit of, like, each team in order, like, going up to the front of the class and, like, regaling us with, like, the tale of their elimination and, like, the funny stuff. And, of course, Enzo and Jack had us in stitches. Like, they're so funny and, like. But part of that. That mingling also was, like, honestly, every team, even Jack and Enzo shout out to. Jack and Enzo came up to us, like, individually, and we were like, we wanted you to win. We wanted you to. We wanted you to win.
- [142:28]
C
Yeah.
- [142:28]
D
And, like, that just felt so good. Especially, like, we knew these people going into the race. But, like, I mean, funny enough, we talk about not wanting to build, like, social relationships or alliances. Like, we. I wasn't expecting to ever get so many friends out of a show, because I was. I felt so not. And I'm still not friends, really, with, like, people from my biggest other cast. But, like, we just, like. I don't know, just fell in love with so many people on this race and, like, felt really good, and it felt really good to, like.
- [142:58]
C
Yeah. And that night was. Yeah, it was. It was funny, actually. I haven't thought about it this, but, like, we were the only team in that hotel and in that conference room that, like, hadn't yet been released into the real world. And so we actually had these, like, this, like, multiple layers of coming back to real life. And, like, the first one was, like, seeing all of the teams that have been eliminated before us, us. And, like. And we carried a heavy weight of a. Of like, five, six, and seven, you know, of eliminating, you know, being second to last and eliminating women. Women. Women. And, like, we, like, part of us was really running, like, in honor of that. Like, we weren't gonna take that for granted. We weren't gonna throw away the fact that we had just taken this away from so many women. Yeah. And. And to hear from those three teams in particular, that they, like, were happy to see us continue and, like, we're rooting for us.
- [143:54]
D
Following along on the discord.
- [143:56]
C
Like, yeah, they were proud of us. Was just. I mean, yeah, it was like a.
- [144:01]
D
Huge relief and a huge weight and.
- [144:03]
C
Also completely fucking heartbreaking.
- [144:05]
D
Yeah.
- [144:06]
C
Yeah. Like, having that be. The first layer before then was we went back to the.
- [144:11]
E
Was special. Yeah.
- [144:12]
C
Yeah, for sure. And then we went home for three days, and I flew back to Paris to work for three weeks.
- [144:18]
B
Are you kidding me?
- [144:19]
D
And the best part is I'm going to tell this. Her agent was like, you know, her agent didn't know details or anything that she had to get back to Paris and was like, don't worry. I got you this great place you're staying. It has a beautiful view of the Eiffel Tower. And so every day, Paige sent me a sign with the ass.
- [144:34]
B
Eiffel Tower.
- [144:35]
D
Being like, I hated it.
- [144:37]
C
Oh, my God. To my agent, I was like, amy, thank you so much. I really hope this place has curtains.
- [144:46]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [144:47]
C
So that was probably pretty traumatizing, but I'm going to save that to unpack in therapy.
- [144:52]
B
Well, listen, it may not be curtains for you yet when it comes to the Amazing Race. I know you've expressed in other interviews that this is something you clearly want to do. And I think it's interesting because you said you came into the race with lowered expectations, left with a sense of pride. How do you think that's going to affect your approach to a second season? If you get one, we'll be winning it. There we go.
- [145:13]
E
Obviously.
- [145:14]
C
Yeah. Something that we did on. On season 38 was, like, we really embodied this idea of, you just don't have to come last, you know? And we. You know, we worked so hard to keep a level head that, like, I don't. Rarely did we ever really compete, you know, like, we. We were working so hard to just not ever make a mistake and stay right in the middle because we only had to win one leg.
- [145:41]
D
Yeah.
- [145:42]
C
And, like. And we came home and realized, like, right. That's that's why we didn't win any less.
- [145:47]
D
We got to practice winning.
- [145:48]
B
Yeah.
- [145:49]
C
And, like, if. If we went back, like, yeah, we're going to practice winning.
- [145:53]
D
We're going to try.
- [145:54]
C
We're going to. We're going to have the audacity to try and win every leg.
- [145:58]
E
Go for some Expedia points. Points, man.
- [146:00]
C
Yeah.
- [146:00]
D
Let's get them.
- [146:01]
B
There we go.
- [146:03]
D
The honeymoon.
- [146:04]
C
The.
- [146:04]
E
Get that bag.
- [146:06]
C
Yeah, right? And just, like, having the audacity to say that and, like, that is, like, something that. Yeah. Yeah. That you have to practice, and I regret not practicing it sooner.
- [146:17]
B
It's interesting. I know that you both obviously have the Amazing Race in your immediate sights, but I'm curious. Would you want to do any other reality show? I think, Paige, you. Especially considering that, like, this was your foray into unscripted stuff, television.
- [146:29]
C
I'm good. I'm good.
- [146:30]
D
I'm tired, so. Doesn't want to do it. I always joke that it's, like, so devastating, actually, because, like, I have the bug and the itch, but actually, this would bring home a million dollars. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, we picked the wrong one. Like, I want to do it, but, like, look at me, you know? It's like, she would win, you know?
- [146:44]
E
That's why the two of you together was magic.
- [146:46]
D
Exactly. So.
- [146:48]
C
Exactly.
- [146:49]
D
No, no, she doesn't want to do it.
- [146:50]
C
Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. I mean, I, like, mentally shut down two thirds of the way through this interview. Like, I. Like, I don't know if you guys noticed, but, like, I took a. Like, I'm exhausted. Like, I don't know why you think that I would thrive being locked in a house.
- [147:07]
E
Meanwhile, Izzy could go till the. For the rest of the night.
- [147:10]
B
Yeah.
- [147:10]
C
Oh, my God. Like, this is the woman with the energy for these games. Like, I'm. I'm so honored to, like, be the sidekick on the Amazing. Like, well, holy. I'm so honored.
- [147:20]
D
It's like, we don't. You know, I'm not. I'm.
- [147:22]
C
Don't send me anywhere alone. I don't go anywhere alone in real life. Like, I don't know why everyone thinks I'd be good at these things. Like, have you ever seen me in public alone? No, I don't do it. Like, I don't. I don't want to be a traitor.
- [147:36]
D
You don't have to. You don't have to. There we go.
- [147:39]
C
We're doing this interview right now because I did not want to play rap mafia I'm sorry, guys. I can't do it.
- [147:48]
B
Well, what about. What about you, Izzy? I mean, obviously, you know, you're a big Survivor fan.
- [147:51]
D
No one saying is, I don't need to win a trip to Fiji. I'm gonna be winning Survivor.
- [147:57]
B
You're gonna be the first to do that Big three. You know, no one's done it yet.
- [148:01]
D
Listen, I. I would love a second shot at Big Brother. I would love a shot to play Survivor. You know, I'm answering any call, you know, after this season, maybe I'm in the running for House of Villains. I keep saying that. You know what I mean? First the pig, now the wheelbarrow.
- [148:17]
C
Yeah, you saw that wheelbarrow.
- [148:19]
B
I'm just saying, I think it's more so just the. The double bird flip towards the U turn board, which was warranted, but I think you just take that image. You're like, okay, yeah, this is her spot on season four, anyway.
- [148:28]
D
Yeah, no, no, I love this. I'm like, I can't believe I love this so much. I really love doing it. I love. Yeah, I love having it a part of my life.
- [148:39]
C
Yeah.
- [148:40]
D
And I hope. I feel extremely privileged, actually, to have made it onto tar 38, get given my edit and given my early exit on Big Brother, and so I feel I'm already. You know, I don't want to ever be a bitter reality TV person, you know? Like, I am so grateful for the opportunities that we've had, and if they are the only opportunities I get, I will just. I will still be the happiest person that we got to do this and what our legacy will live on, you know, But I hope I get called. I love it. I love it a lot.
- [149:12]
B
So.
- [149:13]
D
Yeah, well, win something, Mike.
- [149:15]
B
Exactly. It'll happen when, not if. But I'm gonna go back to the. The word you kept using, Izzy, which is affirming. And, you know, I've told you this, but I remember meeting you maybe like, a week or two after you got out of the Big Brother house, and there was like a. There was a sense of unfulfillment there. I think for very understandable reasons, you know, considering your position at the time before everything happened, considering the way you were edited compared to how people saw you actually in the house. And so, you know, you talk about how people might react to the two of you on the race, as, you know, you were giving us your best duplicity. It estates during that premiere party, but, like, there was such acclaim for it because I think people felt like this was going to be such an affirming experience for you that you had felt like, for one reason or another, that that big brother journey was not necessarily one that had you feeling whole at the end of it. And it turns out to feel whole, all you need was your other half. And so I like, it just brings me so much joy to have, like, the two of you talk so lovingly not only today, but in your confessionals, even after your elimination, about, like, how much of a great experience this was, because you. You do deserve it. You both deserve it. And we do not deserve the chance to get to hear from such a lovely couple about such an incredible season of the race.
- [150:32]
E
I mean, I honestly, when I found out that you two were out there, I thought, they're gonna have the best time. I don't know how they're gonna to do, but they're gonna. They're gonna have a good time.
- [150:44]
C
Oh, thank you. We. And we. Yeah, we really did.
- [150:47]
D
We really did.
- [150:48]
C
We really did. We are so sick in the head. Yeah, we had the best time.
- [150:53]
B
Well, are there any other things, any other corners of the rug we haven't looked under yet, or are we ready to.
- [150:59]
C
I don't think we've yelled about Jag and Jasmine.
- [151:03]
B
That's what you. This is the plain mood, right? Paige, you kept a very calm and steady voice. You let them. Them freak out. Wait for the FaceTime to drop.
- [151:10]
C
Exactly.
- [151:11]
B
We'll. We'll.
- [151:11]
C
We'll let y' all know how that turns out.
- [151:13]
D
Jizzy stands, right?
- [151:14]
C
No. Stop saying that. No.
- [151:16]
D
Cancel. No.
- [151:17]
B
No. All right, well, the merch is already being happening and then works. Sorry, people.
- [151:22]
C
No, it's over.
- [151:24]
B
Well, before it's over, anything the two of you want to plug out there, social media or other projects that you might be doing? Go see Tatinique, get pre sale tickets on Broadway.
- [151:33]
C
Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
- [151:34]
D
We out here hustling. I mean, listen, I'm repping Blue Ski. Blue ski out here. Follow me at Flute Dyke. Okay.
- [151:43]
C
I don't know.
- [151:43]
D
That's all I got.
- [151:44]
B
I don't know. You've been doing. You did an appearance on the exclusive with Sharon Tharp. You talked about the Gay Amazing Race. So if you want to hear some stories that were not mentioned on this particular podcast, feel free to check that out. Jessa, to tease a little bit for the listeners out there. This will not be the only deep dive we'll be getting post Amazing Race. So I'm excited to hear some perspectives, especially given what we talked about today, to hear some other perspectives behind the course of this incredible season.
- [152:09]
E
I think you've set the tone really nice.
- [152:11]
B
Oh, my God, the bar is up high.
- [152:15]
E
Ceiling.
- [152:16]
D
Yes.
- [152:16]
B
I need to get on that special bike in the Netherlands to reach how high that bar is. Well, of course, let us know your thoughts in the comments, people who you want to hear from as well in a postseason interview. We'll be back back soon with another one to find out a little bit more about everything that went down in The Amazing Race 38. Izzy Paige, thank you, truly, from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for being as open and as honest as and as loving as we got to see over the course of, you know, 12 plus weeks as we've been getting to experience over the past couple years and will get to experience. It clearly has been an incredibly happy time for you both. And you have the rings to show for it at the end of the day.
- [152:55]
D
We got him. We got. She's locked in. Okay.
- [152:58]
B
All right. Well, thank you all again so much for listening. We'll be back in just a little bit with another Amazing Race postseason interview. But until then, everybody take care. Bye. Bye.