Bitcoin Tax Secrets: How the Rich Avoid Paying More - Legally!

Summary

Rich Dad Radio Show: Bitcoin Tax Secrets – How the Rich Avoid Paying More, Legally!

Episode Summary – Released December 4, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of The Rich Dad Radio Show, host Robert Kiyosaki engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Tom Wheelwright, a renowned tax advisor, focusing on the intricacies of cryptocurrency taxation and advanced tax avoidance strategies. The conversation delves into how the wealthy leverage the tax system legally to minimize their tax liabilities, particularly through investments in Bitcoin, Ethereum, real estate, and commodities like oil and gold.

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IRS and Cryptocurrency Taxation

Robert Kiyosaki opens the discussion by highlighting a document from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) concerning virtual currencies. He emphasizes the growing attention the IRS is paying to Bitcoin and Ethereum transactions.

Tom Wheelwright clarifies the IRS's stance:

"Anytime you use or trade your virtual currency, that's a taxable transaction. So every time you spend Bitcoin, every time you sell Bitcoin, that's all taxable."
[00:44]

He underscores the severity of non-compliance:

"If you don't mark that box, Robert, it's a felony. This is not a civil penalty."
[02:55]

Wheelwright emphasizes that failing to report cryptocurrency transactions accurately can lead to significant legal repercussions.

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Robert's Strategy: Buy and Hold

Responding to the IRS's crackdown, Robert Kiyosaki shares his personal tax strategy:

"I buy, but I never sell. And if I paid somebody in Bitcoin, what would happen then tomorrow?"
[03:17]

He positions Bitcoin as a long-term asset, akin to gold and silver:

"As long as I'm buying my Bitcoin after I've paid all the taxes, which I don't pay anyway, and I store the Bitcoin into my asset column and it sits there. It's like my gold and silver, right? As long as I'm not using it, it's not taxable."
[03:46]

This approach allows him to grow his cryptocurrency holdings without incurring immediate tax liabilities.

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Tax Strategies Using Commodities

The conversation transitions to utilizing various commodities for tax benefits. Robert illustrates a scenario involving real estate and oil investments to offset tax obligations:

"Let's say The Rich Dad Company makes $1 million here. And the next thing I do is I give the money to Kenny. So $1 million comes down here and Kenny borrows $4 million of my 1. So I've now moved my 4 million over here as 5."
[08:21]

Tom Wheelwright explains the mechanics:

"There are major incentives in the tax law for buying real estate, investment real estate. So you get the big tax deductions from the real estate that offset the income from the business."
[09:57]

Robert further elucidates:

"That's why when I drove for oil...if you put it into oil, you get a deduction...you end up not paying tax on the business income because you did what the government wanted you to do and put it into real estate."
[10:30]

This strategy leverages tax deductions from property investments and oil exploration to neutralize taxable business income.

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Capitalizing on Tax Incentives

The duo discusses exploiting tax incentives, particularly in green energy and carbon credits:

Robert Kiyosaki introduces the concept of carbon tax credits as a lucrative opportunity:

"I invested in the whole, you know, I've made a couple of million dollars on just tax credits this year."
[20:46]

Tom Wheelwright elaborates on carbon tax credits:

"Carbon tax credits are credits that the utility companies and the producers who use the carbons like coal...they can trade those. There's a market for tax credits."
[19:48]

They highlight how governments incentivize sustainable practices through tax credits, allowing investors to benefit financially while supporting environmental initiatives.

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Education Gap and Wealth Inequality

Robert touches upon the broader implications of tax strategies on economic disparities:

"The rich get richer because the government gives them incentives and the poor don't know about those incentives, and so they end up paying all the taxes."
[22:43]

Tom Wheelwright agrees, attributing the wealth gap to a lack of financial education among the general populace:

"It's a gap in financial education more than anything because the rich get richer because the government gives them incentives."
[22:43]

This segment underscores the importance of financial literacy in enabling individuals to take advantage of available tax incentives and reduce their tax burdens.

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Critique of Traditional Financial Advice

Challenging conventional wisdom, Robert Kiyosaki critiques traditional financial advice such as "get a job, save money, invest in the stock market":

"Anybody who says to you, go to school, get a job, work hard, save money, get out of debt and invest in the stock market, they're ripping you off."
[21:03]

He advocates for alternative strategies involving commodities and real estate to achieve financial independence and minimize tax liabilities legally.

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Conclusion

In wrapping up the episode, Robert Kiyosaki and Tom Wheelwright reiterate the significance of understanding and utilizing the tax code to one's advantage. They encourage listeners to access valuable resources available on Wealthability.com to gain insights into IRS regulations regarding cryptocurrency and to implement advanced tax strategies.

"Just go to wealthability.com and type in bitcoin. You'll be able to find this. It's Internal Revenue Bulletin."
[23:14]

The episode serves as a comprehensive guide for individuals seeking to navigate the complex landscape of tax laws related to cryptocurrency and other investment avenues, emphasizing the pivotal role of financial education in wealth accumulation.

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Key Takeaways:

• Cryptocurrency Transactions Are Taxable: Every use or sale of virtual currencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum must be reported to the IRS, with non-compliance leading to severe penalties.

• Long-Term Holding Strategy: Holding cryptocurrencies as long-term assets can defer tax liabilities and benefit from favorable capital gains tax rates.

• Leveraging Commodities for Tax Deductions: Investments in real estate, oil, and green energy can provide significant tax deductions, offsetting taxable income.

• Exploiting Tax Incentives: Understanding and utilizing tax credits, especially in sustainable sectors, can lead to substantial financial gains.

• Bridging the Financial Education Gap: Enhanced financial literacy is crucial for enabling individuals to take advantage of available tax incentives and strategies, thereby reducing economic disparities.

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For more detailed insights and access to exclusive tax strategy documents, listeners are encouraged to visit Wealthability.com.

Transcript

[Robert Kiyosaki]

This is the Rich Dad Radio Show. The good news and bad news about money. Here's Robert Kiyosaki.

Hello. Hello, Robert Kiyosaki, the Rich Dad Radio Show. Today, the good news and bad news about taxes. Welcome to the program, Tom.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Thanks, Robert. Always good to be here with you.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Yeah. So I want to plug this thing here. I mean, I can't believe it. It's actually readable. Tom sent me this wonderful document here. You know, generally, whenever Tom sends me a tax notice from the Department of the Treasury, Internal Revenue Service, I don't need sleeping pills. I just fall right asleep. But this thing is pretty good. I can read it. And it's about. It says the Internal Revenue Service is aware that virtual currency. See you bitcoin guys, you got Target on your back. Now they know you got some money and they want it. So anyway, Tom will make this available to you. I suggest you get it. It was all the highlights here. What you can and cannot do with virtual currency. Bitcoin. I have Ethereum also. I like the stuff, and those people will hate it. Well, that's life. So, Tom, you know, virtual currency or Bitcoin and Ethereum and all, that's a big news. What do you see while reading these wonderful documents, which you can go to your website at. What's your website again?

[Tom Wheelwright]

Wealthability.com.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Wealthability.Com. So all you guys out there who are criminals on Silk Road with bitcoin, get this document. I'm only kidding. So, Tom, what is IRS saying about virtual currency?

[Tom Wheelwright]

Well, they say a couple of things that I think is really important. First of all, that anytime you use or trade your virtual currency, that's a taxable transaction. So, I mean, let's give an example. Let's say that bitcoin became a normal trade. You go buy groceries. When you bought groceries with Bitcoin, that would be taxable because it would be considered a trade for Bitcoin, for US Dollars. So every time you spend Bitcoin, every time you sell bitcoin, that's all of that is taxable. And here's the thing. So on your tax return now, there is a box you have to check to say, did you trade Bitcoin? Well, that means did you do anything other than just buy it? Okay, if you bought it, you don't have to mark that box. But any other use of it, you have to mark that box. If you don't mark that box, Robert, it's a felony. This is not a civil penalty. Most things on a tax return are just civil penalties, right? They're just, okay, paid the penalty, get my wrist slapped and I go on my way. Not with this one. This is a felony. They will come after you if you don't mark that. And in fact, you should have marked it.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Trust me, they are coming after, I mean us. Because I've done very well with bitcoin and Ethereum. But Tom knows my tax strategy. I buy, but I never sell. And if I paid somebody in bitcoin, what would happen then tomorrow?

[Tom Wheelwright]

That would be taxable. So if you paid them person I pay, it'd be taxable both for you and for the person you pay. That's right.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

So as long as I'm buying my bitcoin after I've paid all the taxes, which I don't pay anyway, and I store the bitcoin into my asset column and it sits there. It's like my gold and silver, right? As long as I'm not using it, it's not taxable.

[Tom Wheelwright]

It's actually just like the gold and silver. So the same thing would happen if you went and used silver or, you know, silver or gold to buy something that would be a taxable transaction too. So it's very similar to gold and silver. The one difference is, is that if you hold bitcoin for over a year, you do get capital gains rates. So you get to tax that at 15% or 20% instead of ordinary income. Gold and silver have a different tax rate than that. So you just. That's the one primary difference between the two.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Again, I want to talk about this. This is a document. Go to. What's your Website Again, Tom? Wealthability.com and in here, all the things you want to know. All you new bitcoin billionaires are soon to be billionaires. You want to know what to do before you do something stupid like spend it. So what else would you want to say about bitcoin or crypto?

[Tom Wheelwright]

Well, there's, you know, a lot of the issue that I think people have is tracking it. You know, I mean, the whole goal for bitcoin is not to be tracked. But the reality is, is that if you ever were to start to use it or when you trade it, you do have to track that and you do have to report that, just like you were if you were trading stocks or foreign currency, something like that. So, you know, the compliance part of it, I think is the most. One of the most difficult parts of bitcoin is you start to comply just because it's not a real. It's not a foreign currency just because it's not the US Dollar. Just because it's not a stock doesn't mean you don't have to report that transaction on your tax return and pay tax. And I think that's the most important thing. I think people miss that all the time, that they need to know that they're in big trouble. If they don't report this correctly, the IRS will come after them.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Well, not that I'm suggesting this, but isn't one of the pitch points one of the reasons for buying bitcoin is the government can't track it?

[Tom Wheelwright]

That. That is. That is one of the pitch points. Okay, so that. Can they track it? No, they can't right now. And it's a voluntary system. Right. All of our. Frankly, all of our taxes are a voluntary system. But when they audit you and they ask you that question, if you say no, that's a felony. So just know that if they do catch you, you're in pretty big trouble.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

I think I was laughing about is I see a lot of these really young guys who now become bitcoin multimillionaires, and I watch them on their YouTube podcast, and they're sitting in these huge mansions now with. They look like Al Pacino and Scarface or something. You know, these huge, huge dragons and all that around them. So obviously they spent some money, right?

[Tom Wheelwright]

Well, obviously they did. And the reality is that obviously the IRS is going to check on that. And the IRS is doing more and more audits, and they're doing more and more audits on cryptocurrency. Here's the thing, people think, well, I have bitcoin, and so I'm good. But you only can use that bitcoin for the most part if you convert it to dollars, Right? I mean, it's not like there's a huge marketplace where you can go out and buy house, houses using bitcoin. Most people aren't going to accept bitcoin in exchange for their house. And so you're exchanging it for dollars. When you do that exchange, that's where the IRS is going to track you. So it's converting it from bitcoin to something else, like dollars. That's where the IRS tracks you. And know that that's pretty easy for them to track.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

So years is when bitcoin first came out, this guy was selling condos in New York city in the SoHo area. And they're accepting bitcoin. So that would be trackable, wouldn't it? Because you now have a record of the real estate also.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Exactly. Because you have a record of that real estate transaction and you know who the buyers and sellers are. And so the IRS can be looking at that or the New York State Department of Taxation can be looking at that because New York State's even more aggressive than the IRS and say, well wait a minute, where's the gain? Where's the reporting on this?

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Good, good. And how as you know, I like oil and you know, and oil's under fire right now because of carbon tax, which is good because I'm going to make even more money. Cause I'm going to shift and become a grainy and I'm going to invest in green new energy because I get huge deals for carbon tax. Now. Of course, of course, you know, capitalism is wonderful stuff. You just keep moving around out there where everybody else is trying to eat granola and eat asparagus. You know, I'm shifting to a grainy buying carbon tax credits and making fortunes on it because I'm going to buy oil with it. But for years, when you look at this thing here, this is the point of having Tom in his book is tax free wealth and you should have tax advisors. I love this here in commodities down here because in my opinion this is where your wealth is stored. So as I explained in the last other interviews is I make a lot of money, Kim and I make a lot of money. Here, let me show this. So let's say The Rich Dad Company makes $1 million here. And the next thing I do is I give the money to Kenny. So $1 million comes down here and Kenny borrows 4 million of my 1. So I've now moved my 4 million over here as 5. So 1 plus 4 equals 5. And that's this other tax. This is part four of a four part series. So please listen to Kenny and Tom and myself and Kim talking about how the entrepreneur like Donald Trump, unlike Hillary and the other characters, I make my money here as a business owner. The money then goes into Kenny who borrows $4 million and we buy $5 million of real estate. How does that save me money, Tom?

[Tom Wheelwright]

Well, so there are major incentives in the tax law for buying real estate, investment real estate. So you get the big tax deductions from the real estate that offset the income from the business. So effectively you end up not paying tax on the business income because you did what the government wanted you to do and put it into real estate. Well Robert, the same thing happens if you put it into oil, right? Or if you put it into solar. You get the same type of tax benefits. So that you're not paying tax on your business income or your other income.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

So let me guess, I'm going to take it to it because this is what we teach through our cash flow clubs. This is advanced tax strategy and real estate Strategy. So it's 5 million. Let's say that 5 million property appreciates up to 10 million. I borrow out the 5. So it went from $5 million. It's now worth $10 million. Kenny raises the rents. I pull out $5 million in cash. Is that tax free money?

[Tom Wheelwright]

That is tax free money. Debt is not taxable.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

And with that, I buy bitcoin.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Exactly. So that's how you make your bitcoin not taxable. Or you have other options too. I mean, you can buy bitcoin in, for example, you could buy bitcoin in your ro. Sorts of things you can do here once you understand the tax law and how the incentives work.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

See, the problem with most people is when they make some money, they want to spend it. And that's the problem. Oh, I'm a billionaire in bitcoin, but I can't spend a thing because my capital gains tax will be through the roof. But there's things you can do if you have a great tax strategist like Tom. So we come back. We've been talking more with Tom Wheelwright on how commodities are your most important asset, in my opinion. I mean, this is where my wealth is. I don't save dollars. It's just trash. As Michael Saylor says about Bitcoin, the dollar is like holding onto an ice cube that's melting in your hand. And they're going to, you know, this is 2021, they're going to put another 1.6 trillion or 9 trillion. I mean, you savers are getting screwed, which means bitcoin goes up, probably gold and silver goes up through inflation. But just because the product, the commodity, goes up doesn't mean you're rich. You still have taxes. We'll be right back.

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[Robert Kiyosaki]

Welcome back Robert Kiyosak at the Rich dad radio show. The good news and bad news today about taxes. And if you're paying taxes this year, means you got some bad tax advice. And so this is for next year because if you're really smart, you can make a lot more money and pay a lot less in taxes legally. And now that I'm a hardcore bitcoin fanatic, I listened to all their banter back and forth on YouTube and they saying the US taxes my Bitcoin. I'm moving to Timbuktu.

[Tom Wheelwright]

It doesn't matter.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Yeah, but that's what I hear on YouTube or they're gonna run to a country that respects crypto and all this stuff. And I listen to the old guys like myself and Jim Records and Jim Rogers and he says, never forget who has the guns. Actually, never forget who has the guns. He says, remember those guys at Tiananmen Square? They stuck the finger up with a gun, they put a tank and they ran him over. And always remember this, Al Capone wasn't taken down for alcohol. Al Capone was taken down for taxes. And so you can say what you like and all this. I'd rather just hire Tom and make a million dollars in pay, no taxes. So Tom, tell us one more time where they can get your paper from the Internal Revenue Service.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Just go to wealthability.com and type in bitcoin. You'll be able to find this. It's Internal Revenue Bulletin.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Yeah, and it's just, it's actually pretty easy to read. I read it, it was not bad. But the point here is this. Let me just read it. The rich dad philosophy is I don't, you know, Tom knows I don't have any stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etf because they're taxable. And I like saving. I don't save money. I save gold, silver, bitcoin, oil as commodity because it's real. It's based down here. And I just explained to you how I can make a million dollars, buy a million dollars of bitcoin and pay no tax. But oil is another one, Tom. So let's say I have extra cash here coming from Kenny, or however I get it, which is part of the Cash Flow Club series. Let's say I have a million dollars and I give my money to my friend at oil company in Dallas. Let's say I give him a million dollars for oil exploration. How much of that money is taxable?

[Tom Wheelwright]

Zero. Because if you have a million dollars, let's say you made a million dollars from your business and you put that million dollars into oil, you'd get a deduction of a million dollars to offset the million dollars from the business. And basically you'd pay no tax. And so it's a tax free investment.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

So this is what we teach at Rich Dad. I have a business. I haven't met a number of businesses, but the one people know is Rich dad, I make a million dollars here. It comes down here to Kenny. He ramps it up to $5 million. He has 4 millions of debt in it. Is debt tax free? It is, yeah. And it comes over here, comes in as five. Kenny then raises the rents and let's say the property goes from 5 million to 10 million. I borrow out the $5 million and I buy $5 million with oil. What happens to me then?

[Tom Wheelwright]

So now you've got a $5 million deduction. You actually need more income. You need more taxable income. At that point it's backwards. Now you need to increase your business income so you can actually use that loss.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

So the other part of it is because I have all this money coming in tax free because of Tom, I'm stacking up my commodity column here. So my bitcoin is piling up. I don't need the cash because I'm catching it off of tax free debt coming off.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Oh for sure. Now you talk about being a greenie and going that direction. So remember the same thing that we do with oil and the same thing we do with real estate, remember all the incentives, they're going to go towards green energy. So they're going to go to solar and wind and whatever kind of green energy they have there's going to be. Not right now we don't just have deductions, we have credits which is a dollar for dollar offset. I mean this is like nirvana from a tax standpoint where you can actually make money from the government by investing.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

So I just threw my friend Marilyn Katusa, you know, I just turned bright green. I'm now so green I turn a little like a frog. And because I'm getting carbon tax credits. Tom, what does that mean?

[Tom Wheelwright]

Well, so what happens is that carbon tax credits are credits that the utility companies and the producers who use the carbons like coal, for example, they can trade those. So for example, in the west now I was at a public utility for a number of years, their in house tax advisor and that's when the carbon taxes started coming up. And so in the west they have for example, really clean coal. In the east it's really dirty coal. Well, so my company in the west would sell its credits to the companies in the east and make money just on the credits because they naturally had cleaner coal to begin with. So there's a market here. There's always been, and this is something we don't talk about a lot, but there's a market for tax credits. Low income tax credit, housing tax credits, solar tax credits. There's all sorts of markets for tax credits.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

God bless capitalism, you know what I mean? Just so wonderful. And the rich get richer. I mean that, I mean, you know, is it fair? No, it's not fair. But it's the law. It's the way capitalism Works. Is. Is this true all throughout the world, Tom?

[Tom Wheelwright]

It is. It's really fascinating to just watch how when we go to different countries and of course, I always look at the tax law when we go to different countries, and they're remarkably similar, the incentives, because they all want the same thing. They want cheap energy, they want employment, they want real estate, they want housing. And so the way they get their work done is they use capitalists, frankly, to get their work done, and they give them small tax incentives. So the capitalists put in and risk their money into these projects that the government wants.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Yeah, so anyway, there's a lot to learn. And so anybody who says to you, go to school, get a job, work hard, save money, get out of debt and invest in the stock market, they're ripping you off. Because guys like me just will not do that. And look up saying, God bless Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. When I first heard that, I went, oh, she's gonna make me a rich man. So I invested in the whole, you know, I've made a couple of million dollars on just tax credits this year. And so it's. Capitalism is wonderful, except the socialists will never tell you that because they don't know it themselves. Any comments on that, Tom? I mean, what's happening in America today? I mean, the gap between rich and poor is horrifying.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Well, it is horrifying. And here's the thing, is that it's really a gap in education. And you know, as you say, it's a gap in financial education more than anything because the rich get richer because the government gives them incentives and the poor don't know about those incentives, and so they end up paying all the taxes.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

And the biggest point here is this, is that when somebody says, live debt free, Tom, am I deeply in debt?

[Tom Wheelwright]

Very deeply in debt.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Because debt is tax free money. We'll be right back. Welcome back. Robert Kiyosaki, the Rich dad Radio Show. The good news and bad news today about taxes. So, Tom, before we go out, can you explain why we're not cheating the government? I mean, you talk about incentives and all this. Why am I not cheating the government?

[Tom Wheelwright]

Here's what most people don't understand. There's very little of the tax law that actually raises revenue. Most of the tax law is just the government implementing its policies. Okay, so if the government wants to create jobs, then it gives tax benefits. I mean, we saw this in the PPP loans, right? That was a good example of that, where the government's saying, well, look, if you keep paying Your employees, we'll pay for that. Okay? It's the same thing. Most of them aren't direct subsidies like a PPP loan that was a direct subsidy. Most of them go through the tax law. So if you want to know what your government, no matter where you are, if you want to know what your government wants to have done, wants to have accomplished, look at your tax law. Go to, your taxpayer says, what is the, you know, for example, what does the tax law say in my country about developing housing? What do they say about commercial buildings? What do they say about solar energy? You know, solar, solar panels. And what you'll find is, is that most governments are incentivizing certain things that they want to have done because they want the capitalists to put the money to risk the money. And they're willing to take some of that risk off of the capitalists by giving them a tax deduction.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

And so that's why when I drove for oil, I mean, America is now they so called energy independent. If you weren't energy independent due to fracking and how much the grain is going nuts, God bless them, but I'm going to get rich because of that. But if we didn't have that, we'd be at war in the Middle east, which we are anyway because of oil. And so by incentivizing people like me to move my millions of dollars into oil, the government gives me a tax break. America becomes energy independent. Anyway, Tom, thank you very, very much. Once again, how can they get this beautiful document before they become criminals? All you bitcoin guys, just go to wealthability.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Com and we'll have it available for you.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Thank you, Tom.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Thank you. This podcast is a presentation of Rich Dad Media Network.