← Rich Dad Radio Show: In-Your-Face Advice on Investing, Personal Finance, & Starting a Business
Rich Dad Radio Show: In-Your-Face Advice on Investing, Personal Finance, & Starting a Business
From $0 to 30+ Properties – The One Strategy That Changed Everything!
00:34:56
👉 Get Your Free Copy of "How to Buy Your First Investment Property" - https://bit.ly/3NJLquO Ever feel like real estate investing is only for the rich? Think again! In this episode of the Rich Dad Real Estate Show, host Jaren Sustar sits down with...
Loading summary
Transcript61 lines
- [00:00]
Jaron Sustar
Perdio sutra bajo redujeron susoras ponderia calificar para los beneficios del segro de desempleo de Oregon es gratis applicar sin costos nitari FAS paroptender beneficios y los servicios de interpretacion estandis ponibles presentar su solicitud es facil yame al uno, ocho, siete, siete, tres, cuatro, cinco, tres, cuatro, ocho, cuatro. Uno, ocho, siete, siete, tres, cuatro, cinco, tres, cuatro, ocho, cuatro per. Welcome to the Rich Dad Real Estate show where we talk about the good news and bad news Real estate hosted by yours truly, Jiren Sar. And today I'm here with a very special guest, Grace Gutenkop. I hope I pronounced that correctly. We'll find out here in a second. Grace, she's a real estate investor, she's an author of the Self Managing Landlord and she's a co founder of the Women Invest in Real Estate Network. I guess. Why are they crush it? Her and Amelia, her partner, they're great people and they're absolutely crushing it with that community. And she's a systems expert. And so I'm super excited to talk to Grace in her free time. She likes hiking and hanging out in a hammock. Dude, I haven't hung out in a hammock in forever. I'm scared to get in a hammock because I don't diet well enough and I'm not sure there's a hammock that can hold me. Grace, thanks for being on this show today.
- [01:18]
Grace Guggenkopf
Thank you. And yes, you pronounced it right. And I know that there is a hammock out there for you. My hammock is my best friend.
- [01:25]
Jaron Sustar
If we can go on a hammock search for extra large males, that would be be fantastic because I'm gonna need one. But I'm super stoked to chat with you today. We met, I guess it was Orlando at a conference a couple years back and we hit it off. You guys are awesome. The. The vibe between me, yourself, your partner in your business, you are just amazing people and I know you're crushing it in your community. And so this is really cool that a couple years later, here we are on the Rich dad podcast talking about real estate and how you have had so much success. And so I'm excited to dive in. I'll let you start from, you know, the beginning, but I think it's cool now, because tell me if I'm wrong, you don't live anywhere near where you invest anymore. You've moved to the wild, wild west out in Arizona, but I think you still invest, maybe towards the Midwest. So we'll get there. But take us back to how this entire journey started.
- [02:19]
Grace Guggenkopf
Yeah, I was in college helping my boyfriend at the time, now fiance, paint a house. And I thought to myself, I could maybe do this one day. He was flipping a house with his grandpa. And then like many I had read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I had listened to Bigger Pockets podcasts and I thought to myself, I could do this. And one thing about me and Amelia who you mentioned is like, we're go, go, go. We're 100 miles an hour. I'm gonna read it, I'm gonna figure it out, and I'm gonna do it. Probably to a detriment. And so Covid started doing DIY investing. Quickly realized I could figure out creative financing burrs, private money, commercial lending. And I just told myself, I'm never gonna stop. And when I started, I bought in my backyard, which was Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I never knew that you could buy anywhere else. I didn't even know the term out of state investing. And after two to three years of doing DIY investing and really running our business like a mom and pop and running around like a chicken with my head cut off, we ended up moving to Tucson, Arizona. Didn't know anybody there, had never been there, but my fiance got a good job there, so we said, screw it, let's go. And I figured out how to be an out of state investor and how to run my business like a business, build a team and all that great.
- [03:39]
Jaron Sustar
Stuff, that is insane. I don't know, maybe you told me this and I just forgot, but the fact that you were just painting your boyfriend's house and you're like, holy crap, I'm going to be an investor. And then you went and did it. That's absolutely insane. Who does that?
- [03:53]
Grace Guggenkopf
I know. Even better is I wrote a book for Bigger Pockets and have spoken at the Bigger Pockets conference, which is so crazy because that was the podcast I listened to where I was just like, huh, I could do that.
- [04:06]
Jaron Sustar
I can do that. You know, that brings me to a good point because I preach this nonstop and I know you would agree that if you can make a very complex topic seem normal, you can have success. And so for me, I remember when I was starting out in the real estate game, I was surrounded, or I went and surrounded myself through networking with People who were already where I was wanting to go. And so, yes, it's good because you learn from them. So you learned a ton. Listen to the podcast, all that good stuff. But I think even equal to the education that you get is it becomes normal. And when something becomes normal, then it's easy to take action on it. And, you know, just growing up in small town South Carolina, it was. It was almost like untouchable to be able to get in real estate, you know what I'm saying? Like, it was like almost like a myth. Like it was only for rich people or something. And so to make it feel normal allowed me to feel like that barrier was knocked down. And it was just like hopping on a bike and riding a bike. And when you can get to that place mentally, all the nuts and bolts aside, it really does open up a lot of doors.
- [05:17]
Grace Guggenkopf
Yeah, you can't operate your business in a silo. I still struggle being from small town Iowa, which was probably very similar to where you grew up, where rich was making 100k a year. Like that was rich. That was. And so to be in real estate and see so many other forms of wealth and to know that, you know, everybody is kind of making it up and you just have to be around people who know how to do it and they will inspire you and teach you and you'll learn from them is huge. And that's why I always tell people, if you're listening, go be a part of a local meetup or an online community or listen to more podcasts and normalize it, normalize it, normalize it.
- [06:00]
Jaron Sustar
Nobody's got it figured out. That's the one thing I've learned. Like, you look at any investor or any big name in their business, I mean, we could talk. You know, I don't necessarily want to throw out names, but think about the biggest names that you know, their business. They don't have everything dialed in. They do not have it all figured out. That is one thing I've learned by being able to. To step into these rooms with some larger folks. And so there I say that to say there's never going to be a time where you, Grace, or I or any listener is going to have it all figured out. You. You have to just jump in and go and surround yourself with those people who are also doing it. So you have that community, you feel lifted up, you feel like it's normal. And when the hard times come, that's okay because you've got people to lean on and learn from. So you said you started out Doing diy dive into that. What does that mean, what that look like from the get go?
- [06:50]
Grace Guggenkopf
I think it's easier to start in real estate DIY because you need less capital, but it's harder to scale because you can't get out of the day to day. Whereas if you start not DIY or out of state, it's so much harder to do that first deal. But once you do, you've got everything locked in and you can keep scaling. But my fiance is the guy that can do literally anything. He has renovated whole houses top to bottom to the studs. But. And that's great for your first couple of deals. And I was the world's worst contractor at his side. I can paint, I can pull out screws, I can do demo, I could landscape a little bit, but I was not good at anything else. And we literally had to move 2,000 miles away from our portfolio to get out of DIY because I was cleaning, I was the manager, I was doing everything and he was doing the contracting. And when I finally moved, I knew it was going to force me to figure out how to do it not being there. And that's what made me absolutely explode. My business. I started flipping from 1500 miles away, not ever having seen a lot of the properties wire exploded. I started a few other businesses and it was all because I figured out how to outsource and delegate. And a lot of us fall into the trap of nobody can do it like I can. And I always tell people, don't be so narcissistic though. A lot of people can do it like you can. You just have to figure out how to give them direction, how to hire and how to systemize.
- [08:20]
Jaron Sustar
A lot of people can do it better than you can in certain areas. Better. And not just. That's the one thing I found is even in any, not just my real estate business, like that's. That was easy for me to delegate contracting because I hated it so much. But in my other businesses, it's like, yeah, when I put the right person in the right role, they are better than I am in that position 99% of the time. How many deals do you think you lost out on by focusing so much on contracting and working personally on the houses that you were buying so many.
- [08:50]
Grace Guggenkopf
In 2020, 2021, we were doing one, maybe two deals at a time. And while that other deal was sitting because you can only be in one place at once, it was so stressful. In 2024, even just a few months ago, I had six or seven deals going at once, six or seven renovations happening.
- [09:08]
Jaron Sustar
That is insane. And I want to talk about that after the break on how you do things out of state, how you're able to scale, how you keep able to keep that many projects going at once. And you know, our, our story somewhat similar. I never did a ton of the contracting, but I was definitely more hands on. And I would show up and I would see what's going on. And it does, it really limits what you can do. And I think it's okay to start. You know, I'm not sitting here telling somebody not to be super involved when you're first starting. I think there can be some benefits to it because you learn a lot, especially if you're not well versed in project management. Even if you're not doing the project, just showing up and being there is going to be super helpful. But if you are going to scale, you're going to have to back off. Like, I bought 19 units my second year of investing and if I would have had to done all the rehab and been in all of them, there would have been no way. I've got, I think, six flips going on right now buying rentals. And so there, there is opportunity to be able to do this without having to be hands on, which is very good news to people who live in areas to where they can't buy in those particular areas. And you and I both know that there are many locations throughout the country or world that don't lend themselves to certain types of investing. And so let's say you live in a higher price market. Well, maybe you can go flip there, maybe you can do Airbnb, but you can't buy long term rentals. Well, you either have to look in the mirror and say, well, I guess I'm not going to buy long term rentals. Or you say, I'm going to figure out how I can do this without being local. And I'm telling you, Grace is going to break it down here in a little bit. And from my personal experience, you 100% can. The only reason I go look at properties now is because I need content for YouTube or Instagram. That's pretty much the only reason I go to my properties now. Other than that I wouldn't go because I don't need to, because we built out, build out the systems over time. So I want to talk about the specifics of your first couple deals. You know, you guys were Peyton, your fiance's house. Then you're like, I'm going to be an investor. What did you do for that first deal.
- [11:09]
Grace Guggenkopf
So after he flipped a house with his grandpa, our first deal together was a DIY six month gut. He it was the winner of Iowa. We're like, we're bored. We've got the energy, we've got the time. Let's find the crappiest house we can and fix it up. It was supposed to be three months and like $23,000 and both the timeline and the budget doubled as it does. And after that first one, it was miserable. I hated it. I hated diying. I was there every day before work. I worked remotely. I'd go at like 6am, work for a couple hours, go home to work and then go back later that day. And my fiance did double that. But somehow at the end of the day when we refied it, had a perfect burr, had a ton of equity. I think we were all in for like 130. It appraised for 180, rented for 1500. We were like, huh, Somehow I want to do that again, but let me figure out how to do a little bit less contracting. And so even though it was miserable, it was just so eye opening to see what your own hands created in terms of equity and an asset. And it was a really beautiful place that a tenant could call home. And that was the aha moment.
- [12:22]
Jaron Sustar
Yeah. Let's break this down because this is my favorite strategy. This is how I scale my portfolio. It's how I still buy real estate today. And not every deal are you able to do this, but every deal that I can, I do. We're doing one literally right now with a duplex that I have under contract for 87,000. Okay. It's going to be about $12,000 worth of work. Call it 15 for easy math. We're going to be all in at 100, going to appraise for 150 to 160, and then it's going to rent for, you know, 15, 1600amonth. And so the power of that to the listeners is she bought a property. Well, I don't know if you remember the purchase price. It doesn't really matter because she was all in with purchase and rehab. She was all in at $130,000. So the purchase price, price plus the rehab cost, she's all in at 130. So she had done what we call forced appreciation, which is just a fancy word for saying she took something ugly. She made it pretty, and now it's worth way more. So she bought it, fixed it up over whatever five, six months. Now it was worth 180. So worth 180. She's got 130 in it. She went to a bank and she did what's called a cash out refinance. Would the bank give you 80% of the new appraised value? 75%.
- [13:34]
Grace Guggenkopf
We did 70 just because we didn't need the whole 80%.
- [13:37]
Jaron Sustar
You didn't need the whole thing. So a lot of times the bank on that new appraised value will loan you anywhere from 70 to 80%. So Grace and them did 70%, which is $126,000, right around 130K, which was the amount that they had in the bank, wrote them a check for that new for that 70% of that appraised value. So 126,000. They went and put it in their bank account. So they got all of their money back that they put into the deal. And now they had a Bank loan for 126k with the bank and now the tenants are paying off that debt. That's absolutely amazing. I bet you, I bet you guys were just like flabbergasted when you actually finished the project.
- [14:15]
Grace Guggenkopf
Yeah, I mean I was 23 years old. I was like, this is absolutely nuts. Nobody I know has a home, much less a rental property. So we're like, let's do it again. And we did right away.
- [14:27]
Jaron Sustar
How do we do this over and over. I remember the first one I bought. I like, I had to put 20% down. Okay. I didn't do any fancy strategies. And you know, come to find out later, that's not the best way to do it. It's not how I buy now the majority of the time. But I just remember like that first deal, I walked around like I was something dude. My chest was bowed out. Say this is amazing. And then I remember my first Burr deal, which was your first ever deal. And I had never felt anything like it because I went and acquired. And you went and acquired an appreciating asset and you had no or very little capital left in the deal. And now you own this very expensive asset. It's going up in value over time and it's paying you back. Like how many people, if you really think about it, how many people in life actually buy things that pay them back? Statistically, only 1% of people do. People do because only 1% of people are smart enough to say, let me go deploy capital in assets that are actually going to pay me back. The rest of the 99. Just go buy crap where your money disappears and the crazy Thing is, we all have access to to go buy assets that will pay us back and do things like you did. But it just takes a little discipline and it takes a little courage and to see you guys do that and then how it's unfolded over time, which you're going to break down after the break. I am super stoked for you. We'll be right back with Grace.
- [15:48]
Robert Kiyosaki
Donald Trump returned to office and Republicans take control of the House and Senate. It's huge news, but the challenges we face as a nation are still here. In four years of chaos, the dollar has lost value, inflation run rampant, interest rates through the roof, and wars rage across the globe. Trump has inherited an economy that's a total mess and the burden to rebuild is huge. This isn't going to get fixed overnight. Especially with the ongoing assaults of the dollar from BRICS nations and our growing national debt. Your savings are still vulnerable. Gambling with your wealth is not an option. If we've learned anything is that we need to take action and protect what we've worked so hard to earn. That's why we partner with Allegiance Gold, a company we trust to help you protect your financial future. Gold and silver are time tested ways to hedge against economic chaos. They're not just investments, they're peace of mind for your wealth. When you start your investment with Allegiance Gold today, you'll get free silver as part of their exclusive offer. Just mention Robert sent you and they'll take care of you. Don't sit on the sidelines at today. Secure your wealth. Go to protectwithrobert.com or call 8443-ROBERT. That's 844376, 2378. Let them help you get started. Protectwithrobert.com this episode is brought to you.
- [17:13]
Jaron Sustar
By Sparrow, the service that makes it easy to claim money from class action lawsuits. Did you know that most people don't file class action claims, leaving millions of dollars unclaimed every year? That's money you could be entitled to. But most people don't realize how easy it is to claim. Sparrow simplifies the process, showing you eligible claims in just minutes. And on average, Sparrow users claim over $300 a year. Imagine what you could do with that extra cash. So start claiming what's rightfully yours today and visit use sparrow.combackslash rich dad to see what you're eligible for. That's use Sparrow as in the bird.com backslash rich dad. Hey guys. Jaron Sustar, host of the Rich Dad Real Estate show and the Jaron so Star show here if you're brand new and are serious about getting into real estate this year, or if you have a few properties and are serious about scaling your current portfolio, I've got something special for you. The Robert Kiyosaki, author of Rich Dad, Poor dad and I put together a free ebook that walks you step by step through how to buy your first or next investment property. Whether you're a complete beginner or you've done a few deals already, this guide is action packed with proven strategies and tips that can help make you a smarter investor and make better investment choices. In this book, we're going to break down everything from finding the right property to finance and options and we even give you insight into into how the pros are managing their real estate portfolios in today's market. And the best part? It's completely free. All you have to do is head to the link in the show notes below or go to your first property co to download it right now. I believe 2025 is going to be one of the best years for real estate investing that we've seen in recent history and I do not want you to miss out. Plus, your future self is counting on you to make good decisions today so that they can live a great life later. So go to your first property co or click the link down in the show notes to grab your free e book today. Welcome back to the Rich Dad Real Estate Show. I'm here with Grace Guggenkopf. We were talking about her first deal, how she absolutely crushed it with the burst strategy. But I forgot to ask you, how in the world did you find the deal? Like, how did you get a hold of. Everybody wonders how do I find these deals? Break it down for them.
- [19:31]
Grace Guggenkopf
This is a good story. We were driving around if you've probably heard the term driving for dollars, and I saw For Rent sign in front of a really crappy house and I had seen that For Rent sign many times, so I knew it was still vacant and I called the number right then and there. I'm standing outside the house and I realized the the person who answers has no clue what I'm talking about. So I take a wild shot in the dark. I'm like, are you an investor? He's like, yes. I'm like, do you have a lot of properties? He said yes. And then for some crazy reason I decided to say, even though I had never bought anything in my life, I'm an investor too. Why don't you send me a list of all of your properties and send me your crappiest ones, and we want to walk them. So I had the courage to, you know, kind of bluff my way through this, and he sent me a spreadsheet of like 35 properties starred the ones that he thought were the worst. And then we. I said, I want to walk the properties that are the most disgusting, that smell bad, because I know that's where, you know, people say it smells like money. I know that's where I can forced the most appreciation. And we walked like two or three offered on it. I was so scared to negotiate like $2,500 off the inspection report, which is so funny looking back on it. And we signed it. I bought it off market, no realtor. And we got to work.
- [20:51]
Jaron Sustar
That is amazing. Literally saw for rent sign and called the investor and asked, how have you found most of your properties off market?
- [21:01]
Grace Guggenkopf
Through referral leads and word of mouth. I offer $1,000 referrals, and I have a Facebook page where people follow me. And I've had contractors, tenants, escrow attorneys, friends, random people. I've never met my chiropractor. I've paid all those types of people out referrals because they get me in contact with somebody who's selling off market because they know I'll pay them.
- [21:24]
Jaron Sustar
Isn't that crazy? I preach because a lot of people do, like a lot of marketing, which I do some marketing. But for the majority of my investing career, it's just come through what you talked about, what I would say, organic word of mouth or either calling somebody or sending a mailer, because if you get it, you can create an army of people who will bring you deals. And people get excited about it, Isn't it? Wow. Like, I think everybody wants to be in real estate, but they're not sure how do I get in? So this is your ticket to getting them in, and you're paying them a thousand bucks.
- [21:53]
Grace Guggenkopf
Like what I say you need to turn your audience. And not like you're an influencer or anything, but like you have Facebook friends. I'm sure you need to turn your audience into walking, talking billboards for your business. And it needs to be a dollar amount. The referral needs to be a dollar amount that will make an ex boyfriend call. It can't be a hundred bucks. Nobody's calling you some. Your childhood friend's mom is not calling you for $100. It needs to be in small town Iowa. It's a thousand. On the coast. It might need to be 3,000 or 4,000. You. You need to turn everybody into a walking, talking billboard. For your business.
- [22:31]
Jaron Sustar
I love. That is so funny. Where ex boyfriend or girlfriend would call. That is, that is amazing. I have found, you know, the most of my deals have come from number one other investors doing exactly what you did. I didn't call from a for rent sign, but I, I got a hold of other investors and bought off their portfolio. And then a lot of mine have come from folks who it was like estate sales. So either a spouse had just passed away or both of the parents have passed away and the children's have inherited it. You know, a lot of people want to talk about tax sales and foreclosures and this and that and there you, there's ways to make money in all different ways. But if I, if people were to say what's the two biggest ways you've done it? And I would add number three, Zillow. Just literally looking online to see what's for sale. Those are probably the three biggest ways that I have gotten deals. And that doesn't take a lot of, a lot of equity or a lot of time equity or sweat equity compared to, to what some of these, you know, marketing methods take. So that is really, really cool. How'd y'all fund it? Did you guys fund it with your own capital? Did you raise money? How'd you go about that?
- [23:34]
Grace Guggenkopf
I've raised a lot of private money again because people are watching, they're seeing what you're up to. And after that first burr that we talked about, my mom made me have an open house to show like family and friends what we did. And I was so mortified. I was like, really Mom? I. This is so embarrassing. Well, what do you know? Somebody came to my open house who ended up lending me a hundred and twenty thousand dollars.
- [23:57]
Jaron Sustar
Geez, that's a game.
- [23:59]
Grace Guggenkopf
If you're scared of social media, do open houses. You don't have to post everything online, but do open houses for your projects to show your local community, family, friends, neighbors, investors, bankers, attorneys, what you're up to and get them bought into your vision.
- [24:13]
Jaron Sustar
That is genius. I really, really love that. Because once you earn that trust, any, any business success is built on trust. And you're literally saying, hey, here's my product, my product. Come check it out. I got nothing to hide. Who doesn't want to be a part of this?
- [24:27]
Grace Guggenkopf
Yeah, I have another friend who she'll throw do an open house but also bring food for all the contractors who worked on it. So now she's got her contract labor bought into her vision because she's taking care of Them. She's saying, bring your families. I'm feeding you dinner tonight. I'm saying thank you and just doing a little bit of above and beyond so that those contractors keep coming back to her and working with her. Granted, she does like 40 flips a year, so.
- [24:53]
Jaron Sustar
Yeah, but she got a lot of labor. She did 40 flips a year. She didn't always do 40 flips a year. She built a good business by going the extra mile. Just the little things. Sending out thank you cards. I've been known. Speaking of food, I'll cook a ribeye for the, for the workers. Sometimes we just all grill out. It'll be late at night. They're there working and it's like, hey, I'm going to appreciate you because you can't do it without them. It's a team that you got to have in place. But I love that, how you spread the news and you show people the product. And I'll tell you, one private lender, one person who says, you know what, I want to be on your team. I'll fund deals can completely change your life. You don't have to have multiple ones. Chad Carson is a gentleman. Both of us know. And I was talking to Chad one time, he said, dude, we got one guy who lent us money for however many deals. I mean, a lot of deals, he said, and we've made him a lot of money and he has helped change our lives. One person. And you got that one person to give you 120k. You probably got more lenders now, but even that one can work wonders in changing your entire future because capital, I think the deals are the harder thing to come by. I really do. And then once you have capital, then it's just, hey, let me go find. It's going to be a little bit harder, but let me go find those deals and you know, you can buy anything. That's a pretty freeing place to be.
- [26:12]
Grace Guggenkopf
That's what I thought when I first started. I remember I looked at my at brand, my fiance and I said, let's find deals and let's not let the money stop us. And that's why I figured out creative financing, private money, burs commercial lending. I figured out all the things because I knew if I could find the deals, the money would come. And that's something that we teach to our wire community as well, is find the good deal. And the money will come. Because a lot of people have money. A lot of people have money. Not everybody has a deal.
- [26:43]
Jaron Sustar
That is fantastic advice. Reminds me of the movie filled of dreams. If you build it, they will come if you bring the deals. There's a way to make money on a deal. Even if you don't find money right away, guess what? You can go wholesale that deal and make money. I mean there's so many different ways to make money when you have deals. I love that. That is, that is gold right there. Grace, thanks for sharing. So you've. How many deals have you done now in all?
- [27:05]
Grace Guggenkopf
Probably about 30.
- [27:07]
Jaron Sustar
So she's done 30 deals. Started doing DIY at the beginning, moved to Tucson, Arizona. Now you've done 30 deals. What was that transition like from all right, I'm very hands on, I'm local to now I live all the way on the other side of the country. And you started doing more deals while you were farther away. How did you do that?
- [27:25]
Grace Guggenkopf
So I've done about 15 flips and I have 27 units so I guess more than 30. But when I moved I started by hiring a 10 hours a week hourly person to help me with all the things that I couldn't do because I wasn't there then actually hired that person before I moved cause I was getting.
- [27:44]
Jaron Sustar
So what did they do? Like what kind of stuff were they doing?
- [27:46]
Grace Guggenkopf
That person's role was property manager. So it was a lot of listing and leasing stuff.
- [27:50]
Jaron Sustar
Okay.
- [27:51]
Grace Guggenkopf
Then once I moved to Arizona, she ended up parting ways with me because she had a really great full time job and just she was not going to be working as a property management manager forever. Even though she was incredible, I decided I'm going to replace her with a full time person. W2 full time employee that's a project and property manager and I'm going to start blipping to make this person pay for themselves. I think I can do six flips at $30,000 or whatever, $20,000. I'm in a really small area so you're not making a ton of money off of these flips. And that's what I did. He worked with me for a year and a half up until about a couple of months ago because he got another great offer in for a really big developer in Utah, decided to go do that which was awesome. But I turned his I instead of thinking okay, I'm going to make this much money less his salary, I thought I'm going to invest this salary, I'm paying him to get 4 exit with these flips that I'm making. And that was a huge game changer. That was the first time I'm like running a team. I have an employee Like, I have to do KPIs and team meetings. And it was. It was a lot.
- [29:01]
Jaron Sustar
That is intense but amazing. And I think it was genius of you to keep boots on the ground locally. Who could go and they could run and they could project manage. What have you found from, you know, let's talk a project manager, because when it comes to finding deals, guys, you can find deals no matter where you're at. And I don't want to be flippant about that, but you could sit in California and find deals in South Carolina easier, in my opinion, than you can manage those deals once you get them. So what are things that you did? And I know you had the employee, even if you had to train him, or there are things that you were doing outside that allowed you to be so far away. Buy these flips and then go through the project of, let's just say rehab. And then we can talk property management too, without you being there.
- [29:55]
Grace Guggenkopf
So starting with an incredible scope of work that we would review that was very, very detailed. You know, it's four or five pages long, everything. And when they would walk the property, I had this really thorough template property walkthrough template, where he's putting the year of every single system. You know, the H vac, the ac, the water heater, when was electrical done, how old's the roof, what exactly is the driveway, parking situation, how many bedrooms? Like so, so, so detailed with a ton of pictures and videos. So I can get all the information that I need. Then we build the scope of work. I would use Monday.com to create a project timeline with. And he was also the gc. So we're doing all subs, which is.
- [30:38]
Jaron Sustar
A lot of work. So the same guy who was on your team, he was a gc.
- [30:41]
Grace Guggenkopf
I mean, not licensed.
- [30:43]
Jaron Sustar
Yeah, but he was. He was running your. Yeah, yeah. And I just.
- [30:45]
Grace Guggenkopf
Running.
- [30:46]
Jaron Sustar
Yeah. Disclaimer. You can do this if you don't have somebody living full or working full time for you. Just want to put that out there. There are people that you can find as boots on the ground.
- [30:53]
Grace Guggenkopf
Oh, yeah.
- [30:54]
Jaron Sustar
Who will go and do this for you as well. But yeah, keep going.
- [30:56]
Grace Guggenkopf
Especially if you're again in a community or a local meetup where you can find a great boots on the ground somebody or like a new agent who's not making a ton of money. That's a great person to have be your project manager. Just know you get what you pay for and you can't, you know, just hire somebody and expect them to be really good at it. You got to train them. But we would use Monday for the timeline who the contractor was. And then just a ton of trial and error. I started doing just one project at a time. We did it start to finish and like 60. I think it was 73 days, close to close. So less than three months. And I was like, okay. And I made like 22,000 and I didn't do anything. I never saw the property. I. I was never there. And so I was like, all right, we got this. Now let's do three projects at once. So we did three projects at once. Then we kept growing. It was pretty hectic. And looking back now, I realize I had a really tough time with quality control, because I didn't. I almost needed another person to quality control him. And I realized I was doing a little bit of polishing turds. And now I'm moving forward. Definitely going to be moving into doing really, really great renovations that I can be really, really proud of. And so, yeah, there was so much trial and trial and error. And I learned a ton about managing a team long distance.
- [32:16]
Jaron Sustar
I love that. I think there's a lot of challenges to people. Ask me what is the hardest part about real estate investing? I think number one is just getting started. Most people never get started. Then once you get started, it's managing projects. I think that is the hardest part of the game. For whatever reason, we could sit here and talk about the reasons why, but it's one of those things to where anything in life worth having does not come easy. And the hardest part of this game is going to be how do I get that project or that property from looking ugly to now? It's being pretty in as fast amount of time with quality work. That's going to be the hardest part of this game. And you can either say, I'm too scared, I don't want to be a part of it. It's fine. You're never gonna reap the benefits of real estate. Or you say, I'm gonna figure this thing out, whether you're doing it locally or from out of state. And it's worth figuring out.
- [33:09]
Grace Guggenkopf
I find that people get into trouble on flips the second they stop being proactive or hands on. If you have a flip, you have to be so hands on. You have to have such a thumb on the pulse of what you're spending, how long it's been, who's doing what. And I've done this before. I've gone hands off and let kind of the project manage itself, and it never turns out well. So you need to be tracking the current budget versus the projected budget. You need to always have an estimated date of completion. Whenever you're talking to a contractor, the second you stop asking for estimated dates of completion, the second it's going to go off the rails.
- [33:46]
Jaron Sustar
Yeah, you really have to almost feel like you're micromanaging and just stay on top of it. Which is for me is very hard because I am not necessarily a detail oriented person. I'm a big vision. Let's move on to the next deal now. I'm smart enough now where I have team, team members who literally do all. I mean, I don't, when I, after I close a deal, I hardly see it at all now. And they're very, very high level and they manage the project manager and so on and so forth. But when you're getting started, you're, you're, you're spot on. And I think one of the biggest things that we've done with our students who are getting started with this and especially ones doing it out of state, is you mentioned it, number one is we're having multiple contractors walk through. If you don't have that one person on your team, we're getting multiple quotes. Then we're putting scope of works together based on that and the inspection report. Then we're having a contract sign, then we're giving them a timeline and then we're having a weekly check in. So every Friday they're getting a video walkthrough. If they're not local of where they are at the project, what's been purchased, they're getting receipts. And one thing that I will leave you guys with just as a tip to keep you from getting screwed is do not pay large lump sums to contractors. There are bad people out there who will take your money and they will run. The way we do it is we pay for material. Oftentimes our contractors or subs will actually call somebody from our team from Lowe's or Home Depot or wherever. We'll pay for it with our card. And then they just charge us labor at the end of every week. And if I could just give you guys just something to take to just make this imprint in your brain. Never forget it. Do not pay large lump sums. Don't give them 50% deposit. They're going to run off on you. Yeah, I agree and it's very scary. So you guys started wire, right? Women investing in real estate. Women invest in real estate. And y'all have a lot of fun. When I see you guys at conferences, y'all have A great group. What is it? How can ladies get involved in it if they're interested?
- [35:41]
Grace Guggenkopf
Yeah, we've got a few different things going, but our mission statement is to empower Women to become W2 optional through real estate investing so we can create lifestyle design. We always say we're not here to hone to own 100 units. We're here so that we can have freedom, whatever that may be. And we have a community membership. We do retreats. We just got home a couple days ago from our ninth retreat in Phoenix, Arizona. It's three, three to four days with 20 women in a giant Airbnb having an absolute blast and talking business. We also have bookkeeping services. That's new. I have made a lot of bookkeeping mistakes, so much so that I was like, I need to start my own bookkeeping service. So we hired a full time bookkeeper and now do investor books through Wire, which is really fun. And yeah, we have lots of different meetups and other fun things.
- [36:37]
Jaron Sustar
That's awesome. Where can they find you at? Where's the best place for them to get a hold of you?
- [36:40]
Grace Guggenkopf
Women invest in real estate.com or an Instagram wire community. And wire has two eyes.
- [36:47]
Jaron Sustar
Love it. Grace, thank you so much for coming on the show today. And you came home last minute. You were supposed to be scheduled for later and we had a change in schedule and Grace said I'll be there. So thank you so much. I'm pretty sure it's early where you're at too. I always love chatting with you. You're amazing. You're absolutely stud at real estate investing. And thanks for sharing your knowledge today.
- [37:08]
Grace Guggenkopf
Thank you.
- [37:08]
Jaron Sustar
Jaron, thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of the Rich Dad Real Estate Show. Go down to the show Notes before you leave and grab my free ebook on how to buy your first or next investment property in 2025. It's going to give you everything you need to be successful in the real estate game. Thanks for tuning in. I'll see you next time. This podcast is a presentation of Rich Dad Media Network.