Podcast Summary: Rich Dad Radio Show – “The Dollar Collapse and the Rise of Real Assets”

Host: Robert Kiyosaki
Guest: Mark Moss
Date: November 5, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of the Rich Dad Radio Show features Robert Kiyosaki in conversation with Mark Moss, a leading crypto expert and long-term student of Kiyosaki’s financial teachings. Their discussion centers on the risks facing the US dollar, the changing landscape of retirement and personal finance, and the opportunities and dynamics within cryptocurrency and real assets like real estate and gold. They particularly focus on how boomers and retirees can navigate growing economic instability, inflation, and technological disruptions using real assets and strategic leverage.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Economic Shift: Collapse of the Dollar & Rise of Real Assets

Timestamps: 01:39–06:00

• Robert recaps Buckminster Fuller’s prediction of a “Gross Universal Cash Heist” (GUCH/GRUNCH) (03:30), explaining how inflation and the fractional banking system erode the value of savers' money.

  • Quote [Robert, 03:43]: "Savers are losers. Fuller also predicted that there would be a new form of money coming on the floor… Kids playing video games. He says that's the future of money."

• The conversation frames the episode: the failing of traditional fiat currencies, the pitfalls of conventional saving, and the emergence of digital assets as a viable response to systemic crises.

2. Leverage and Arbitrage: Learning from Real Estate to Crypto

Timestamps: 06:00–13:10

• Examination of Michael Saylor’s business strategy (MicroStrategy, now “Strategy”) for leveraging debt to maximize Bitcoin holdings via a public company:

  • Mark Moss details how Saylor uses capital markets to buy Bitcoin with borrowed money, amplifying returns when Bitcoin appreciates (05:57–07:23).

  • Comparison to real estate (07:33–08:38): Just as Kiyosaki leverages public funds to drill for oil or mine gold, Saylor instantly turns debt into Bitcoin exposure.

  • Moss emphasizes two pillars: Leverage (buy productive assets with debt) and Arbitrage (utilize disparities between markets for profit—credit vs. asset appreciation).

  • Quote [Mark, 08:38]: "The two keys...building wealth are leverage...and arbitrage. How do I leverage two markets against each other?"

• Saylor’s innovation—offering preferred stock (10%+ yield) backed by Bitcoin reserves (09:52–11:47). Safer than typical dividend stocks, as obligations are covered by the asset base, not just future cash flows.

  • Quote [Mark, 10:53]: "...when you buy dividend-paying stocks, you’re buying them based off the future expectation of cash flow...The difference that he’s doing is, when you give him money, he buys the asset and he’s paying a small percentage of revenue off of an asset base..."

3. Ethereum, Stablecoins, and Crypto Company Treasuries

Timestamps: 12:12–14:10; 26:26–28:00

• The structure and positioning of Ethereum (ETH) as a “company-like” network, with leaders and centralized development (13:10), compared to Bitcoin’s decentralized, commodity-like status.

• Mark’s take on Ethereum’s performance vs. Bitcoin: ETH does excellently vs. USD, but underperforms BTC when measured directly; the risk and utility profiles differ (13:31).

  • Quote [Mark, 13:31]: "Ethereum has performed amazingly well against US dollars...measured in bitcoin, it’s down. It’s never been able to make a second all-time high price in bitcoin terms."

• Discussion of ETH as the “rails” for stablecoins and blockchain transactions (27:23). Ethereum compared to Amazon Web Services: collects transaction fees every time its infrastructure is used.

  • Quote [Mark, 27:23]: “I would call Ethereum like Amazon Web Services, like Amazon Data Center. Every time a transaction happens on the Ethereum blockchain, they would get a little fee.”

4. Boomer Crisis, Retirement, and Catching Up

Timestamps: 14:10–19:44; 19:44–26:26

• Kiyosaki outlines the generational problem:
  Boomers are at risk due to inflation, dwindling defined-benefit pensions, and increasing living costs. The defined contribution/401k system exposes retirees to inflation and the risk of outliving savings.
  • Quote [Robert, 15:09]: "Defined benefit was my father’s pension...but with a defined contribution—you know, if I did the same thing...let’s say I had $100,000 in my retirement account and inflation takes off, the hundred thousand is gone."

Mark Moss: Crypto Catch-Up Strategy for Retirement

Timestamps: 19:44–26:26

• Retirement is not freedom from work, but freedom to work on what you want (19:44).

• Bitcoin’s historic, and projected, compound annual growth rate (CAGR): Moss states Saylor’s estimate—30% CAGR over the next 21 years; he projects $1M/BTC by 2030–31 (20:22–21:55).

  • Illustration: $10K in BTC today becomes ~$2M in 10 years at that rate.

  • Quote [Mark, 21:22]: "If I have $10,000 today, that will be $2 million in 10 years ... That's how compounding works."

• If you’re starting late (age 65+, little in savings), crypto gives you an opportunity for outsized compounding IF you can handle volatility and have patience.

• However, Bitcoin doesn’t throw off cash flow; to live off gains, retirees could borrow against their appreciated BTC holdings (24:38–25:50).

  • Quote [Mark, 25:04]: "I would borrow against it and roll the debt every year...as long as bitcoin's compound annual growth is higher than the interest on the debt, I can do that forever."

• This mirrors Kiyosaki’s classic real estate strategy: never sell, borrow against appreciated assets, enjoy “tax-free” income through debt that’s offset by growing principal value.

5. Money Printing, Inflation, and Societal Consequences

Timestamps: 28:00–33:00

• Kiyosaki: The printing of money causes real assets (real estate, crypto) to increase in value, but also drives up costs for basic needs, worsening inequality and homelessness.

  • Quote [Robert, 28:21]: "My assets are going up. But what else is happening? Because assets are going up in price like real estate, people are homeless. I mean, it’s kind of a screwed world right now."

• Mark explains inflation is a systemic feature, not a bug, in fiat currency systems (29:47).

  • US government’s target of 2% inflation means an unending drain on cash holders; better to own scarce, productive assets.
  • Quote [Mark, 29:47]: "Our goal is 2%. So their goal is to only steal 2% a year or that’s 10% of your wealth every five years. That’s their goal."

• The fastest-rising boats in this rising tide are scarce assets; BTC is most sensitive to new money creation, followed by real estate and gold (30:25–30:54).

6. Volatility, Asset Diversification, and Mindset

Timestamps: 31:00–33:25

• Asset markets (esp. crypto) are volatile—many people cannot stomach drawdowns.

• Moss suggests matching asset duration to your needs: Do not invest in long-term/high-volatility assets with funds you need immediately.

• Kiyosaki laments social consequences: As prices outpace wages, more people become homeless, and technological change (AI) threatens jobs even further (32:10–32:38).

  • Quote [Mark, 32:40]: "Half of people going on to skid row and the homeless mess today are baby boomers. ... It’s a big problem."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the future of money:
  Robert Kiyosaki [03:43]: “Savers are losers...Fuller also predicted that there would be a new form of money coming on the floor...that’s the future of money.”

• On leverage and arbitrage:
  Mark Moss [08:38]: “The two keys...building wealth are leverage...and arbitrage. How do I leverage two markets against each other?”

• On Dealing with Crypto Volatility in Retirement:
  Mark Moss [25:04]: "I would borrow against it and roll the debt every year...as long as bitcoin's compound annual growth is higher than the interest on the debt, I can do that forever."

• On the inevitability of inflation:
  Mark Moss [29:47]: "Our goal is 2%. So their goal is to only steal 2% a year or that’s 10% of your wealth every five years. That’s their goal."

• On the coming social crisis:
  Mark Moss [32:40]: "Half of people going on to skid row and the homeless mess today are baby boomers. ... It’s a big problem."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:39–06:00: Introduction, Buckminster Fuller, context for new money
• 06:00–11:47: Michael Saylor/Strategy, leveraging equity for Bitcoin
• 12:12–14:10: Ethereum vs. Bitcoin, crypto as company treasury asset
• 19:44–26:26: How retirees can “catch up” using Bitcoin; debt against appreciation
• 28:00–30:54: Inflation, real-asset appreciation, gold/BTC/real estate
• 31:00–33:25: Volatility, matching assets to needs, impact on society

Final Thoughts / Takeaways

• The landscape of personal finance and retirement is fundamentally shifting.
• Traditional advice (save dollars, trust the 401k) is failing—savvy investors must look to real assets and learn from models used by the wealthy.
• Bitcoin and Ethereum offer unique opportunities but also significant risk and volatility.
• Using leverage and arbitrage intelligently—whether in real estate, crypto, or business—remains a key path to financial freedom, especially as fiat currency is devalued by design.
• Structural inflation and technological disruption threaten to make the retirement and housing crisis even worse, especially for older generations without assets.
• Mark Moss and Robert Kiyosaki both emphasize learning these dynamics, adopting new mindsets, and not expecting old systems to provide security.

Connect with the Guest

• Mark Moss Twitter: @1MarkMoss
• Mark Moss YouTube: Mark Moss

“Please don’t have old thinking—I’m going to save money until it hurts, because I don’t think it’s going to be there in a few years. The world of fake money is coming down.”
– Robert Kiyosaki [34:10]