Why Energy Investments Are Powering the Next Wave of Wealth

Summary

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Rich Dad Radio Show: "Why Energy Investments Are Powering the Next Wave of Wealth"

Date: January 7, 2026
Host: Robert Kiyosaki
Guests: Michael Maselli (REI Energy), Tom Wheelwright (CPA, Author of "Tax-Free Wealth")

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Robert Kiyosaki explores the shifting landscape of global energy, its connection to wealth-building, and the unique tax incentives tied to oil and gas investments. Joined by long-time oil investor and operator Michael Maselli, and tax expert Tom Wheelwright, the conversation spirals across geopolitics, recent world events (including a fictionalized account of Trump’s military action in Venezuela), investment strategies, and advice for escaping the financial "rat race."

Kiyosaki and guests break down how energy assets can empower investors (often accredited only) to maximize returns and minimize taxes, all while navigating the changing global order of resources and currency. The episode’s tone is frank, sometimes irreverent, rich in practical wisdom, and peppered with the brand’s signature humor and "in-your-face" advice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Geopolitical Shifts and the Role of Oil

[01:01–07:01]

• Kiyosaki Remarks on Recent Events: Opens with a provocative take on "my friend Donald Trump" bombing Venezuela, triggering global ripples, and linking this to the ongoing wars in Ukraine and the Middle East.
• Backdrop: Describes how U.S. foreign policy has always been intertwined with energy. Reminds listeners that in 1974, the U.S. established the "petrodollar," making oil trade a pillar of global dollar dominance, which Saudi Arabia has recently distanced from.
• Venezuela’s Significance: Michael Maselli notes Venezuela’s vast heavy crude reserves and their importance to Gulf Coast refineries (“most of our refineries…built to handle Venezuelan crude”) [11:33].
• China and Global Competition: Both Kiyosaki and Maselli discuss how China’s purchases of Venezuelan oil and the influx of drugs are seen as threats to U.S. interests, with American intervention in Venezuela partly about stopping “bad actors.”

  “All the bad actors that want to see America fail…were using Venezuela as a staging point.” — Michael Maselli [07:01]

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2. Tax Advantages of Oil & Gas Investments

[08:13–10:21, 17:26–20:33, 29:10–30:17]

• Immediate Tax Deductions:

  “Every dollar you invest with Mike, you’re going to get about an 80% to 90% deduction in the very first year…Intangible drilling cost deduction plus bonus depreciation.” — Tom Wheelwright [08:13]

• On-going Benefits: Only 85% of the income from oil wells is taxable—the rest is shielded via depletion allowance [08:13, 29:10].
• Comparison to Other Investments: Returns from oil investments (outside 401ks/IRAs) offer far greater tax advantages than dividends from standard stocks or most real estate investments.
• Risk & Offset: Losses from unsuccessful drilling ("dry wells") are fully deductible, further cushioning downside [13:53].
• Caveat: Investing through retirement accounts negates these benefits—a recurring warning.

  “If you have a 401k…you lose all the tax benefits if you invest with Mike through your 401k.” — Tom Wheelwright [13:23]

• Tax Avoidance vs. Evasion: Stresses that utilizing legal incentives is not only legal but expected and “encouraged” by the government for investors [10:17].

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3. Who Can Play? Accredited Investor Status and Minimums

[21:40–24:29]

• Fast Track vs. Rat Race: Kiyosaki references his “CASHFLOW” board game analogy: to invest with Michael Maselli, you must be an accredited investor (“the fast track”).
• Accredited Investor Definition:

  “Make $200,000 a year…or combined household of $300,000, or … one million dollars net worth outside of your home.” — Tom Wheelwright [22:02]

• Investment Minimums: Maselli’s REI Energy minimum is $25,000; “typical” investment runs $100,000 or more [24:07–24:18].

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4. Advice for Escaping the “Rat Race”

[24:58–25:54]

• Start a Business: Tom Wheelwright strongly advises entrepreneurship for better tax planning and easier access to high-yield, tax-advantaged investments.
• Education Warning: The hosts lament that conventional paths (college, 401k) trap people in high-tax, low-leverage strategies.

  “So, the rich get richer and the poor and middle class got to buy stocks, bonds, mutual funds and ETFs. So it’s not fair necessarily. But it’s also not fair to be poor.” — Robert Kiyosaki [24:29]

• Inclusivity Warning: If you’re not an accredited investor, “you’re out.” [22:36]

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5. Risks and Diversification in Energy Investing

[26:01–27:37]

• Maselli’s Caution: Oil/gas is inherently risky—only invest what you can afford to lose.
• AI and Increased Energy Demand: The rise of AI and data centers is dramatically boosting electricity (and thus energy) demand. Maselli sees future in natural gas (60% of his current production) and envisions eventual growth in small nuclear reactors.
• Transitioning Energy Mix:

  “Right now wind and solar…don’t account for a large amount of the energy…just because of the cost. I think…you’re going to see a lot more small nuclear reactors, more nuclear energy…” — Michael Maselli [26:38]

• Natural Gas Boom: The U.S. has vast reserves; the bottleneck is moving gas to market due to limited pipelines [28:17].

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6. Generational Wealth, Cash Flow, and Longevity of Oil Investments

[30:08–32:36]

• Long-Term Returns:

  “The thing I love about it is money I gave Michael 25, 30 years ago—I’m still being paid on it.” — Robert Kiyosaki [32:36]

• Depletion Allowance Keeps Reducing Taxes: Tax advantages are long-lived if reinvestment continues [30:08].
• Horizontal Well Technology: Modern oil extraction means higher reliability and payout, compared with past generational drilling [31:46–32:36].

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7. Government Incentives and the Future of Energy

[32:46–33:27]

• Consistent Government Incentives:

  “The government’s always going to incentivize energy…we need energy to run the economy. With AI coming on, we’re going to need…more and more energy…” — Tom Wheelwright [32:46]

• Fossil Fuels’ Endurance: Renewables aren’t expected to fill demand in the next decade; oil and natural gas will remain central.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tax Strategy:

  “From a tax standpoint, oil and gas is the sweetest deal.” — Tom Wheelwright [11:06]

• On American Wealth Building:

  “There’s always risk…if you can’t afford to lose the amount you invest…look at more conservative…” — Michael Maselli [26:01]

• On Wealth Disparity:

  “So once again the rich get richer and the poor and middle class got to buy stocks, bonds, mutual funds and ETFs…” — Robert Kiyosaki [24:29]

• On Energy Transition:

  “Right now wind and solar…aren’t a large amount of what’s made in the US… in the future… you’re going to see more nuclear energy.” — Michael Maselli [26:38]

• On Accredited Investing:

  “If you’re in the rat race…you’re out.” — Tom Wheelwright [22:36]

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|----------------------------------------------| | 01:01 | Introductions, Trump/Venezuela commentary | | 02:49 | Michael Maselli's oil industry background | | 03:42 | Tom Wheelwright’s tax background | | 08:13 | Oil/gas tax breaks explained | | 11:06 | Why oil/gas is such a powerful tax shelter | | 11:33 | Venezuela’s oil and refinery relationships | | 17:26 | Return from break: focus on REI Energy and US market impacts | | 22:02 | What makes an accredited investor? | | 24:07 | Minimum investment for REI Energy | | 26:38 | AI, the future of energy, and nuclear/nat gas| | 29:10 | Example: Tax paid on $100K oil income | | 32:36 | Horizontal wells and long-term payoffs | | 32:46 | Why the government always incentivizes energy|

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Flow & Tone

• The episode combines Kiyosaki’s signature provocative style with deep practical expertise: frank, humorous, sometimes blunt—especially about “the system,” government, and schools.
• Maselli provides experience-grounded, jargon-free wisdom, blending technical precision with real-world analogies.
• Wheelwright translates complex tax code into accessible strategies, with repeated caveats: all actions should be personally reviewed with a qualified advisor.

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Summary Takeaways

• Oil and gas carry some of the most powerful legal tax benefits for investors, far outweighing stocks, mutual funds, or 401ks.
• You must be an accredited investor to access most direct energy investment deals. Entrepreneurship is the #1 path to leave the “rat race” and reach this level.
• Global events and technology trends (like AI) are driving increased long-term demand for energy, particularly in the US, making savvy energy investing a way to build resilient, generational passive income streams.
• Modern drilling and US energy abundance, coupled with government incentives, make domestic oil/nat gas a favored choice for the wealthy—but with real risk to principal.
• Always consult with a tax or investment advisor—the show educates and inspires, not sells products.

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This episode is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand how the financially free leverage global trends, tax law, and the ongoing evolution of energy to multiply wealth and minimize taxes—whether or not they ever buy a single barrel of oil.

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Transcript

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[Robert Kiyosaki]

Not available in all states.

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This is the Rich Dad Radio Show. The good news and bad news about money.

[Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad Promo)]

Here's Robert Kiyosaki.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Hello. Hello.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Hello.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

ROBERT kiyosaki, Rich Dad Radio SHOW the good news and bad news about money. This guy here, my friend Donald Trump, two books together. We're supposed to do three, but he called me up and says, hey Robert, I can't do the third book because I'm running for president. I said, good luck. Now Trump is out there doing things that I think are interesting, like bombing Venezuela. All this stuff is causing ripples throughout the world. And so our guest today is Michael Maselli. For full disclosure, I have been investing with Michael for 20 something, 30 something years now and he's an oil man. More than that is I don't like. I went to Vietnam twice as a Marine. Don't recommend it. Another guest is Tom Wheelwright because everything I do is taxes. Everything we do has to do with taxes. So Tom's going to be on board right now because taxes are communist. As Karl Marx said, the graduating income tax is essential for the spread of communism and America was found as a tax free nation. 1773 Boston Tea Party. So today we have a lot of things going on in the world and we. My friend Donald is bombing Venezuela. I don't like war, but we have a war going on in Ukraine, the holy wars of the Middle east and now Venezuela. So welcome to the program. Michael and Tom, thank you very much. Robert, thanks.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Thanks for having us.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Robert, give us a little bit of background on your REI energy. You drill for oil in the United States, right?

[Michael Maselli]

Yeah, in fact, I started in the oil and gas business, I guess in 1978, started working with a company called Tennessee Gas in the Summers. I moved to Texas in 1980, worked for some small independents. I've drilled domestically, internationally, onshore, offshore, pretty much all facets of the business. Had a 2 million acre concession in Argentina. So I'm familiar with drilling in South America, not necessarily Venezuela, but I have been involved in that part of the business before.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Okay, and Tom, give us your background. Tom is my tax advisor. He's author of Tax Free wealth and everything we do involves taxes. In spite of the fact America was founded as a tax free Nation in 1773 and Marx was very pro taxes. So Tom, give us a little bit of background.

[Tom Wheelwright]

That's true. So I've been in the tax business for 45 years. I spent seven years with Ernst & Young, including three years in the National Tax Office in DC. I spent four years with a Fortune 500 company as their in house tax advisor. And the last 30 some odd years I've been building, buying, selling CPA firms and developing now a franchise of CPA firms around the US and it's very exciting times in the tax world. Good news is taxes pretty much stay the same. They're a series of incentives for investors and business owners. The incentives change with the administrations, but there's still.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Incentives. I mean everybody's hoping AI is going to take take care of taxes, but I don't think that's going to come for a while.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Anyway. Well, I have some clients who think that AI has all the answers and they keep getting wrong answers. Maybe such a good.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Idea. Anyway, so for full disclosure, I invested in Michael Maselli. Every month I get a check. I've been invested with Michael for a long time. An oil guy, believe it or not. My background is oil. I went to the U.S. merchant Marine Academy at Kings Point, New York and I specialized in oil. I'm an oil. I drove tankers for Standard Oil of California. I was up in Valdez, Alaska when they that other idiot from another maritime school, New York Maritime, struck the reef up there and pulled it. One of the most beautiful environments in the world. Everybody gets anti oil but it was Fort Schuyler, New York, not Kings Point that hit that reef. They can't navigate, that's a problem. But anyway, oil is essential. And Tom's going to tell the difference between investing in real estate sometimes versus oil because they have different tax advantage. So Michael, when Trump, my buddy here, bombed Venezuela, was that because he loves peace and all that? What is he up.

[Michael Maselli]

To? Well, you know President Trump, he's always got an ulterior motive, right? He's a businessman. So if he can have a chance, and this was a legal chance, obviously he had the right to go in and nab the dictator. And, you know, he gave him every chance to get out. But if he can grab ahold of the world's largest oil reserves and have control of it, I think that had to be an ulterior motive. In his mind. In the back of his.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Mind, is it he pissed at China for buying Venezuelan.

[Michael Maselli]

Oil. Yeah, there were some, you know, pretty bad actors in there, from what I read. You know, China, of course, was, I think, the day that he bombed, the day that he snatched Maduro, they were having a meeting with the Chinese and the delegation. And then, of course, you know, Iran had a big proxy there. They were obviously, you know, popping drugs into, you know, trying to, you know, dismantle America. I mean, I think all the bad actors that are want to see America fail, you know, they were using Venezuela to kind of as a staging.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Point. Yeah. But not only that, on the macro World In 1974, a guy named Kissinger went to Saudi Arabia because we came off the gold standard in 71, so we needed to back up the dollar. So in 74, the dollar became the petrodollar. So every, every barrel of oil that was sold throughout the world wasn't backed by gold, backed by oil. And just I think this year Saudi Arabia did not renew that license. So Saudi Arabia is not in good graces with Trump. And so Maduro's out there pumping oil, selling it to China, and so they're bringing drugs into America. So Trump makes sure the cameras are rolling as he bombs these poor suckers. Driving truck boats and killing all those drug guys is causing a big problem in America because Tom and Michael know my doctor, Dr. Gopalan, he says the fentanyl trade from China is. It provided a lot of heart transplant patients. But anyway, let's get back to oil. Tom, what are the advantages that I have for investing in oil.

[Tom Wheelwright]

With. Well, huge tax advantage. I mean, in fact, we've had tax incentives for oil since the 1970s. And the biggest one, of course, is every dollar you invest with Mike, you're going to get about an 80% to 90% deduction in the very first year with a combination of intangible drilling cost deduction, which is everything but the equipment. Plus now we have bonus depreciation. So now we have. You get two deductions right off the bat. And on top of that, the income, that cash flow you're getting in, only 85% of it is taxable. So there's a 15% off the top write off. So as opposed to, let's say you get a dividend from Standard Oil. Right. That's subject to tax. At 100% of it is subject to tax. Whereas your oil dividend, your oil cash flow from one of Mike's Wells is only 85% of it is taxed. So huge tax benefits going in and coming out. It's one of the few, it's one of the big differences between actually oil and real estate is that anybody can get into oil and they can get that deduction. They don't have to have, they don't have to have any participation whatsoever other than.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Investment. Yeah. And for most people, when they invest in oil, they invest in an oil company like Standard Oil. Right. Do they get the same benefits if I invested in a 401k or RRSP instead.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Of. No, not at all. In fact, when that income eventually comes out, you're going to be taxed at ordinary income rates with no tax benefit.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Whatsoever. Yeah. And I must say something really quickly. We'll make. No, we're not an investment company, we're not advisors. You should always check with your account accountant and your attorney before doing anything. All this. And it's a big difference between tax avoidance and tax.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Evasion.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Correct. Somebody avoidance, tax avoidance and tax.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Evasion. 10 to 20 years in.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Prison.

[Tom Wheelwright]

So tax avoidance is legal, it's expected, and it's actually, actually encouraged. So this is, you know, people don't understand this. It's actually encouraged. We call them incentives. Right. So you're incentivized to put money into oil that you might otherwise put some somewhere else because oil's a little riskier than maybe some other investments. And so because in order to help you offset that risk, the government gives you this big deduction which can, for you can be worth as much as 40 cents on the dollar of investment. So like you're putting in 60%, the government's putting in 40% of the investment, and then you're only taxed on 85% of the income. I mean, it's a. From a tax standpoint, oil and gas is the sweetest.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Deal. Yeah. So again, you should check with your investment advisor and if you have a 401k, we'll pray for you tonight because you can't use what Michael puts up there. So, Michael, why else do you think what is happening with Venezuela? I mean, not only drugs, which is good, but what do you think is going to happen with, we take Venezuela as a 51st.

[Michael Maselli]

State? Well, you Know, I mean the, most of our refineries, I guess on the Gulf coast were originally, you know, built to handle Venezuelan crude. I mean Venezuelan crude is a, is a very heavy crude. Crude is usually based like sweet crude, is called 42 gravity crude and which is a light crude. Venezuela crude is anywhere from 8 to 12 gravity. So they would bring that gravity and I mean that oil into the Gulf coast, into those refineries. And of course they would mix it with our crude here, which would bring the gravity up and make it more valuable to make gasoline and other products. So I think one of the things that, you know, of course when the first dictator took over, they nationalized the oil business and kicked a lot of the countries companies out. And according to Trump and them, I mean they, they owe billions, they owe the US billions and billions of dollars and, and so they're going to try to reclaim that oil and of course get that money back. So you know, I think in the long run that's what the big picture is to try to stabilize our continent here in the South America and then also keep China and Russia and those countries that are not friendly to America out. So I think in the long picture that's kind of what the, what the administration is trying to.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Do. Yeah, if you raise the price of oil to China and China's in serious financial condition right now, you raise the prices, that makes it harder for them, the Chinese to sell products to America. So Trump's doing this for many reasons. Final question before I go for the break, Tom. If I have a 401k, can I invest with Mike Maseli in.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Oil? That's a question for Mike, whether he take your investment. But the better question is should you. And the, my answer is absolutely not. You lose all the tax benefits if you invest with Mike through your.

[Michael Maselli]

401K. And I agree with that. I mean obviously we, we try to discourage that because like Tom said, there are no benefits. You know, we're going through your.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

401K and certain once or twice with Michael, we've, we've, we hit dry.

[Michael Maselli]

Wells.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Yeah. And that, that's bulky a tax break for that. Right.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Tom? You do, of course you get a full write off for.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

That. So anyway, that's the problem with going to school and getting a job and getting a 401k. You have to invest in oil. That's not the best for your benefit. When we come back, we're talking more about oil and Trump going to annex Greenland, the Gulf of America, now the Gulf of Mexico, the Gulf of America. And he's going to annex Canada because Canada has lots of oil. I mean, Trump is my good friend and you know his sons Don Jr. And Eric. Great, great young men. So we come back, we're talking more about oil, but more the tax advantages and why going to school and having a 401k might not be the smartest thing. For your tax. For your taxes. We'll be right.

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[Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad Promo)]

Dad for years I warned the biggest crash in history was coming. People laughed. They said I was overreacting. But today, the crash has arrived. It's not only the United States. Europe is cracking, Asia is cracking. Jobs are disappearing. AI is wiping out entire career paths. And when the jobs vanish, real estate collapses. Offices empty, homes fall, Banks get hit next. This is exactly what I wrote in Rich Dad's prophecy back in 2013. Everything I warned about is unfolding. Millions will lose everything because they stayed in paper assets. They trusted Wall street, they trusted politicians. They trusted the Fed. That saved them. The Fed is out of moves. Inflation is rising again. Debt is over $38 trillion. The dollar is weakening fast and the old system is breaking. But here's the good news. If you are prepared, the crisis will be the greatest wealth building opportunity of your life. This is why I keep telling people to buy gold and silver. Gold is soaring in 2025 and I expect even bigger gains in 2026. Silver is $50 today. I predict $70 soon and possibly $200 in 2026. Most people will panic. The prepared will get rich. If you want to be on the right side of the crash, get the 2025 rich dad wealth Defense guideline. You can add gold or silver to your IRA or 401k legally tax free and penalty free. Call 866-703-9895 or text guide the 24999. Again, call 866-703-9895, or text guide the 24999. Get your free Wealth Defense guide. The crash has begun. Do not.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Wait. Welcome back. Robert Kiyosaki. Our guest today, Michael Maselli. He's REI Energy. For full disclosure, I've been investing with Michael for about 25 years in oil and Tom Wheelwright who's my, he's author of Tax Free wealth, he's my accountant. And the reason I like inviting with Michael is I make a lot of money and pay very little in taxes. Now you can't do that with a 401k and neither should you. So anyway, it's an interesting time in oil. And again I went to school for oil. I drove tankers for Standard Oil of California. So I like the oil business. So Michael, what else is going on with you think this bombing of Venezuela will take Venezuela? How's it affecting the oil business in.

[Michael Maselli]

America? Well, I don't think it's had much effect so far on prices. Obviously it's going to take quite a while to get Venezuela back to producing the amount of production they did 10 or 20 years ago. As far as that. Now, you know, Venezuela was one of the founding members of opec. So they are an opec, you know, country. So I'm sure that once that production starts flowing again, there will be restrictions on how much oil and gas each of these members can produce. So I don't really see it having that big of effect, you know, on the prices of oil. You know, we of course here in the United States we drill shale wells and Shell wells are probably the most expensive oil to export. You know, our, our crude, you know, I mean you have to have 50 to 60 dollars a barrel. So if crude was to drop say in the 40s for a while due to some of these, these reasons that, that you know, by bringing more crude onto the market, I mean you would definitely see drilling slow down here in the United States as far as own that. So it's kind of a, you know, a give and take type situation. I mean we have a lot of oil reserves here in the United States. Of course we don't have 300 billion barrels of reserves in the ground. But our oil is more expensive to drill and it is more expensive to get out. So I don't really see it have that much effect on prices going.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Forward. Okay. Any comments on that.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Tom? Yeah, this is fascinating to me because it seems to me like it gives us enough, gives the US an opportunity to control the production a little bit and actually have a voice in opec, which we have not had much of a voice in OPEC outside of Saudi Arabia. And of course, the price of oil is a big part of the investment in oil. Right. Because you can't control the price of, of oil. A little easier to control, say, rents on a place you're renting. It's much harder to control the price of oil. So that is one of the challenges with oil and which is why the government gives us such big tax incentives for oil. Now here's another interesting thing. You get incentives for investing in domestic oil, but you don't get tax incentives for investing in foreign.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Oil.

[Tom Wheelwright]

So, you know, the average investor in the US Is not going to be investing in Venezuela. That's going to be the big guys like Chevron, et cetera, Standard Oil, et cetera, that invest in, in, in Venezuela. They're the ones with the drilling platforms down there. The people who invest here are going to be really. There are a lot of smaller investors, really doctors, lawyers, business owners, employees. Here's one of the great things about oil is that you can be an employee and invest in oil and get the deduction immediately, whereas it's very hard to do that in real estate. So this is a huge advantage that oil has over real estate is that it's not a passive investment. So you don't have to have passive income to offset. You can have ordinary income and offset even your wage income up to a limit. But for most investors, it's a plenty high limit that it's not going to affect them. So I think that's a huge advantage of domestic drilling in the United.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

States. So that's this question. Back behind me is a casual board game. You know, in the middle is a rat race and the outside is a fast track. The fast track is for accredited investors, right? You have to be an accredited investor to invest with Michael Dasali. So you have to be on the fast track. So Tom, what's the definition of an accredited.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Investor? Well, an accredited investor, you have to make $200,000 a year or combined household of 300,000 or you have to have a million dollars of net worth. Outside of your home. Okay. Your home doesn't count in that. So the idea of accredited is that you can afford to lose the money. It's actually not a are you qualified to invest? It's really can you afford to lose money? And that's what makes for an accredited investor in the United.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

States. So if you're in the, in the rat race like this and you're making less than 200,000, I mean you're out.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Right? You're out. Now there are a few public offerings in oil. I know, Mike, you don't do that, but I know there are a couple, but it's hard to find. It's hard to find investing when you're in the rat race instead of outside the rat.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Race. So Michael, another thing is with REI Energy and can fulfill disclosure, I invest with you. We've made a lot of money together. I don't pay taxes on it, which is nice. But what's the minimum investment for the accredited, the fast track investor, how do they get involved with.

[Michael Maselli]

REI? Our minimum investment is 25,000. So they can come in for that amount. It is a one time investment where, you know, we're not going to come back to the investor and say, you know, hey, we went over budget, please send us more money. So it's pretty easy to get involved with us as far as on our projects. We usually do two projects a year. Our focus is in North Dakota, Oklahoma and Southeast Texas. They're about 60% natural gas, 40% oil. Now the areas that we look at, of course, the Bakken is about, you know, it runs about 80% oil, 20% natural gas. So we tried to start adding more natural gas into our program simply because of the AI technology that's come out, the data centers and also, you know, exporting of liquefied natural gas. So we kind of try to have a mix.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

There. So at 25,000. Any other comments on that.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Tom? And yeah, I mean I suspect that most of your investors though your typical is going to be a hundred thousand dollars or more, right.

[Michael Maselli]

Mike? Right. Yeah, we have, you know, we have investors anywhere from 25, some invest a million. I mean it's just, you know, it's just the individual and how much they're looking to shelter and how much they want to, you know, put into our.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Programs. So once again the rich get richer and the poor and middle class got to buy stocks, bonds, mutual funds and ETFs. So it's not fair necessarily. But it's also not fair to be poor. And that's why all these people go to school for job security. It's really tough to invest in what on the fast track up here, you get stuck in the rat race. So, Tom, any advice for people stuck in the rat race? What do you.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Do? Yeah, well, first thing I would suggest is, you know, even if it's a, even if it's a side hustle, start a business, start a business in your home, learn how to be a business owner because there's so many better, so much easier to be an investor when you're a business owner than if you're not a business owner. That's one thing. Business is the best tax shelter there is. It's, it's, it's literally better than any other tax shelter in the world is, is your own business. And then second of all, you know, learn about other opportunities for investing, especially if you have a high income from your wages or you can get involved in real estate or something else because, you know, you can look at oil and gas, you can look at real estate, you can look at some of these fast track investments that have huge tax benefits as opposed to being stuck with your meager little 401k.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Deduction. So, Michael, any words of caution for people looking to invest with guys like.

[Michael Maselli]

You? Well, there's always risk. There's risk in every type of investment. So, you know, if you can't afford to lose the amount you invest, and I would say, you know, you need to look at more of a conservative type.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Investment. So one of the things I'm looking at right now with, I was talking to Mike Moseli and Tom about this with AI coming on board, that sucks up a lot of energy. Yep. Right, it does, Michael. I guess looking at that because, you know, right now I'm looking at an investment for energy outside of oil or. Tom, any comments on.

[Michael Maselli]

That? Well, there's, you know, there's obviously different forms of energy. There's, you know, I think that, you know, what eventually impact more of the prices. I mean, we all know right now wind and solar, they're, while they're, they're investments, they're not, you know, they don't account for a large amount of the energy that's produced here in the United States just simply because of the cost. I think going forward in the future, you know, you're going to see a lot more small nuclear reactors, you're going to see more nuclear energy that provided that we, you know, we continue on with the administration we have and we don't go back to the, to the, you know, what the last administration was trying to do, but. But I think in the future you'll see more, you know, electricity being produced through nuclear just simply because it's a cleaner electricity. And of course, we've been running, our military's been running the battleships off of it for, you know, what, 20 or 30 years. So I think that technology will come on shore.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Eventually. Well, on top of that, Mike, it seems like we've got a lot of opportunity for natural gas. Yeah, you were mentioning that your oil fields in Texas are 60% natural gas, where it seems to me like until we get the small nuclear plants, which is, which is still quite a ways away, probably, I'm guessing probably 10 years away before we get those small nuclear plants, easily during that time, aren't we going to see more natural gas production and producing a lot of that energy for those big AI facilities, let's call them the data centers. Are we going to see that coming through natural.

[Michael Maselli]

Gas? Yes, certainly. In fact, you know, we have, you know, probably more natural gas reserves here in the United States than anywhere in the world. And you know, our biggest problem that we have in, in this country is just getting the gas to market. You know, if you look at some areas out in West Texas, out in the Permian Basin, I mean, they actually have to pay to get rid of their gas. They don't have the pipelines that can move the gas to the Gulf coast or where it needs to go. So a lot of times, you know, it'll cost them two or three dollars a barrel. I mean, two or three dollars in mcf just to get, get rid of the natural.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Gas. So, so let's say, how do I say this? If I make $100,000 with Michael, Tom Gross, how much in tax do I.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Pay? Well, you're going to pay tax on only 85% of that. So you'll be pay tax on $85,000. But the reality is you can keep investing with Michael and never pay tax. So there's no reason, you know, somebody who's an active, real, an active investor like you are, Robert, somebody who's constantly reinvesting, there's no reason to be paying tax because the money you put in, you get the tax benefit to offset the income you're taking out. So it's just, you keep. This is why the rich keep getting richer, because the rich keep investing. They keep getting the tax benefits on and then they get the cash flow, but it's non taxable cash flow because of all the tax benefits they're getting from.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Investing. Yeah, One of the things I loved about Michael Maselli, but 25, 30 years. I gave you money 30 years ago. I'm still being paid, you know, I still receive income. I pay no tax on it. Because the thing called depletion allowance, right.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Tom? That's right. So you've got that 15 depletion allowance, plus you've got all the new investing that you're doing is offsetting all the other.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Income. Yeah. So again, I'm not recommending. We're not investment advisors. You've got to have check with your own accountancy, own attorneys, what's best for you. But Michael Maselli is kind of the reason we created the cash flow board game is the reason you want to get out of the rat race is so you get onto the fast track and become what Tom classifies as an accredited.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Investor. That's.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Right. If you're accredited, you can't invest with REI and you'll pay more and more taxes. So with that said, that's, that's why we do what we do here at Rich Dad. There's more ways you can get rich. Real estate has its own different investment tax breaks. We're going to talk about that. And then the big one we'll be talking about is gold and silver because that's a huge tax loss if you're successful in that one. I made that mistake. So anyway, we learned by making mistakes. And I've made so much money in gold and silver. But the tax losses, the tax consequences are huge. So that's why Tom, his book is Tax Free Wealth. He's a Rich dad advisor and Michael are on my team of advisors. That's how the rich get richer is because we have advisors, not financial planners. So with that said, thank you, gentlemen. And we come back, we'll be ready for the final words for rich.

[Michael Maselli]

Dads. Thank.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

You. Michael, Final words on final words on oil. Really quickly, why do you like.

[Michael Maselli]

Oil? Well, I think oil is, you know, one. Of course I'm in the business, but it's one of the best investments out there, I feel, especially when we're drilling these, you know, new horizontal wells. I mean, it's not like the old days when I first started in the business that you had to go out and drill, you know, four or five dry holes just to find a well, you know, find oil and gas. I mean, today we're drilling into a rock that has oil and gas in it. Now, that doesn't mean that every well we drill is going to be commercial, but the bottom line is it's it, you know, if you're in the right areas and you're in the best areas, you're going to, you're going to make, you know, pretty decent money off of them. And you get a lot of money back quickly on the horizontal wells because you're opening up sometimes 1200 acres worth of rock under the ground. So you can imagine you get pretty high flow rate. So a lot of times you'll get a lot of your investment back in the first couple of.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Years. The thing I love about it is money. I gave Michael 25, 30 years ago. I'm still being paid on it. Final words on that. Tom?

[Tom Wheelwright]

Well, the government's always going to incentivize energy and the reason is because we need energy to run the economy. With AI coming on, we're going to need actually more and more energy, fewer and fewer people, but we need more and more energy to run those data centers. And that energy right now is all going to come from fossil fuels because there just isn't enough alternative energy. And nuclear is not coming online and won't come online fast enough. So I think that oil and gas has a bright future, particularly over the next five to 10 years. And from a tax standpoint, which is what I care most about, it is the easiest tax benefit there is.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

Out there with AI coming on more demand for more energy. Come back. Final word from Rich Dad. Thank you gentlemen, thank.

[Michael Maselli]

You. Appreciate.

[Robert Kiyosaki]

It.

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[Robert Kiyosaki]

Required. Welcome back. Robert Kiyosaki. I want to thank Mike and Tom and speaking on oil in the coming weeks we talk about different investments like real estate has different advantages and all this and gold and silver are different advantages. I like oil because like I said, I've given Mike Maselli money about 25 years ago and every month a check comes in and then Tom makes sure I don't pay much tax on it. So again, we're not an investment show company. We don't make recommendations. We make no recommendations. So please check it out with your advisor and for your information is I'll be speaking on real estate with the real estate guys investment cruise. So it's a real estate guy's cruise. Check it out on your website. For those of you who love real estate, we go on a cruise and we cruise the Caribbean. You learn so much about real estate and they have so many great speakers. I'll also be in Charlotte, North Carolina on February 3rd for Aspire, the Aspire Tour on Financial and Personal Growth. For those interested in financial education, I'll see at the Aspire conference in Charlotte, North Carolina. North Carolina, February 3rd. If you don't want to learn about taxes and all that, just go to college and save money. Be really stupid about it. Another one is I'll be in Vancouver at the vric. It's this one here, Vancouver, British Columbia. And I'll be speaking on mining because I own gold mines and silver mines, not just gold and silver. So it's a very interesting time in the world. United States is the biggest debtor nation in world history and the real enemy is the central bank called the Fed. And also our school systems teach us nothing about money. And one more thing, there's a book by Lawrence Lepard called the Big Print. Lawrence has some very interesting things in there about the Fed, the Federal Reserve bank, which is Marxist central bank. The people that treat that teach our graduate students at Harvard and Yale is the Fed. Look for a different financial education. So again, thank you to Tom and Mike. I wish you all the best. Investing it may make a lot of money pay very little in taxes. Thank.

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You. This podcast is a presentation of Rich Dad Media.

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