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Transcript55 lines
- [00:00]
Austin Hankiewicz
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Rich Habits podcast, a top five business podcast on Spotify. My name is Austin Hankiewicz and I'm joined by my co host, Robert Krok. Robert is a seasoned entrepreneur in his 50s with lifetime revenues of over 300 million. And I'm an entrepreneur in my late 20s with a background in finance and economics. Since quitting my full time job in corporate finance a few years ago, I built a seven figure media business and actively advise some of the most well known fintech companies around the world. As the show name might suggest, every episode we we talk about Rich habits as they relate to business, finance and mindset. However, we try and bring you two unique perspectives. One from an industry veteran, which is Robert, and the other, myself, someone who's still in the process of building wealth and figuring it all out. And I must say, Robert, before we dive into today's episode, we just received our Spotify wrapped that recapped 2024. Oh my gosh, dude. I mean, not only do we have the best fans in the world, but some of these numbers just blew my mind.
- [01:02]
Robert Krok
You know, we really can't thank each and every one of you enough for these numbers and they really warm our hearts. So I'm going to walk you guys through this. We hit number one on the Spotify business charts back in February and we've chartered for 43 straight weeks since then, pretty much the entire year. Number two, we're in the top 1% of all podcasts on Spotify. Top 1%, which is just incredible. And number three, Rich Habits was streamed at 148 countries around the world. And number four, our listeners in increased by one hundred and seventeen percent in 2024. And last but not least, we are a top ten show for nearly three hundred thousand fans. And we're number one for nearly seventy thousand people around the world. That's seventy thousand people that come back every week and listen to us. So reading all of this is simply incredible. And we want you to know how much we appreciate each and every one of you.
- [02:00]
Austin Hankiewicz
Yeah, Robert, when I saw those numbers this morning, my jaw was on the floor. I mean, 70,000 people added us to their d daily and weekly routines, right? They go to the gym, they listen to the Rich Habits podcast, they go grocery shopping, they listen to the podcast. I mean, these are tens of thousands of people that have us as their number one show. The number one podcast they listen to out of all podcasts. Like how? What an honor. Just, it just feels so good. So very much appreciate each and every One of you that come back every single week to listen to the show, I think we're at now nearly 6,000 five star reviews. The Pod, their podcasts that we're ranked alongside of have these big fancy studios and massive teams of producers and writers. Whereas I'm filming this episode in a spare bet bedroom, Robert's filming it in his office, and we write all of the episodes ourselves. So we're humbled that you're here and we hope that you continue to find value in every single episode. We know you're going to find a lot of value in today's episode, which we cannot wait to jump into. So, Robert, what are we going to be talking about in today's episode?
- [02:56]
Robert Krok
Yes, I am super excited for today's episode. We have one of the most underappreciated entrepreneurs in the United States on the show today. We're sitting down with John Hu, the CEO of Stan, a platform that has helped entrepreneurs earn over 200 million doll on the Internet just in the last three years alone. So whether you have 2,000 followers, 200,000 followers, or 2 million followers, Stan proves you don't need a massive audience to start making real money online. So I'm so excited to talk to him about it and dig deep to really kind of flush it all out. What people can do, how to make money on the Internet, and why Stan is the best platform.
- [03:36]
Austin Hankiewicz
Let me be very clear. If you're someone listening to this episode right now that you've kind of had these thoughts of like, wait a second, that that person I went to high school with, like, they're selling on Amazon. Or this person that I used to know from college, they got a YouTube channel. You see these other people in your life that are doing these cool things on the Internet, and you're like, whoa, they just made $4,000 doing that, or yo, they made $900. And you know, this affiliate was made him 72 bucks, right? It's like there's so many cool ways that we're going to get into as it relates to making money on the Internet. And as some of you all also might know, myself and our executive producer Christian were a couple of the first investors in stan back in 2021. John and I became friends back in 2020, and it become a game changer for entrepreneurs all around the world, helping them monetize their audiences and thrive in this new digital economy that we live in. We're thrilled to have John join us and unpack how anyone listening right now? No matter how many followers, how little Followers, what platform you're doing, what platforms you're not doing, right? How all of you all can start making money on the Internet in 2025.
- [04:35]
Robert Krok
And Stan's mission to empower entrepreneurs is backed by some very, very impressive numbers. And I want to go through those for a second and then we'll let John go to it. Number one is 11,000 creators on the plat platform have earned over $1,000. And you guys know we talk about side hustles all the time. Making that extra $500 a month, that extra thousand dollars a month. And this is a great example of that. Number two, the average following size is just 2 to 3,000 followers, showing that anyone can succeed with the right tools and strategies. And get this, the average Stan Customer makes about $1,500 in their first year selling on Stan. So as you can all see by the title of this episode, 2025 is going to be start making money on the Internet. If that's selling a digital download, monetizing your personal brand, or offering affiliate links for your favorite products, Stan can help you do everything and more. So, John, welcome to the show. We're so excited to dig in and really talk about how Stan is leading the charge for the entrepreneur creator economy.
- [05:41]
John Hu
Well, thank you guys so much for having me. Such a kind intro and congrats on all the success so far. In terms of how much you guys about the podcast, my hope is that this episode ends up being one of the most valuable podcast episodes you guys ever do. Cause I think all three of us especially combined, having built our own audience, our own businesses, our own followings on the Internet. These Internet businesses, we can walk people through step by step. How do you go from zero and no following, which we all started with, and actually build a real business for yourself? Because we've seen the traction ourselves. Like, and we here at Stan, you know, we get to work with 60,000 creators and entrepreneurs online. We get all the data on, like, how do you literally tactically start from zero and go to one?
- [06:14]
Austin Hankiewicz
Dude, I'm so excited. And you know, I think kind of just right before we were talking about this, it's like we are making this episode for the 41 year old mom that's working all the time, but she also has this cool passion for baking on the weekends, right? But now it's time for that person, that wonderfully talented mother, to say, I need to start selling my recipes online. How do I take this idea and maybe plug it into my existing Instagram or my Twitter account or my YouTube channel that I started about baking and really begin to start making my first 10, 101,000, $10,000 on the Internet using Stan. So it's going to be such a fun episode. I can't wait to into the nitty gritty here. But before we do that, beyond being the CEO of Stan, you're a former Stanford mba, you worked at Goldman Sachs as an investment banker. What is your journey? How did you go from working on Wall street to now starting a company that's allowed entrepreneurs to make $200 million on the Internet in its first three years?
- [07:09]
John Hu
I think all that stuff is actually irrelevant. It was actually like a distraction from actually what personally I've found meaning and fulfillment in life in. And what I mean by that is I think my story is really simple. It's so personal to stand as well. You know, I'm just an immigrant kid. Like I was just born to a single mom, North Carolina. I'm of Chinese American descent. And essentially the reason why I have those things on my resume is because growing up in life in North Carolina, there weren't many people that look like me back in the day in a way that, you know, as a kid you just want to fit in and what we're told as Chinese Americans is and culturally from the Chinese culture and then also as kind of this model minority myth like, oh, you have to succeed in life and get these stamps of approval to be accepted and happy in society. And so I did those things right. I like paid my way through school, took on student loans, work nights and weekends as a waiter, and went to school for computer science and business, studied really hard and then I landed this job at Goldman. I cold call my way there which like at the time as a kid I was like, oh my gosh, I've made it right. You're like 20 and you have this swag. You're like, I'm going to be an investment banker on Wall Street. Little you know you get there, you're like, wait a minute, this is like everyone here is miserable and unhappy. Like I look at my boss and like, wait, you have no relationship with your significant other? Like your kids don't know you? Like, that's not the life I want. But of course when you're early 20s, you kind of make the same mistake a couple of times. And so I went off to private equity investing and the Stanford Business School. All these things that like, once again, I check the boxes, right? And so I learned an immense amount about how the world works and how to actually succeed in business which I now get to use and for, I would argue, a much better cause. But it was through that lens of which I was like, I'm honestly feeling very unfulfilled by all these things. I don't want to go back into corporate America in that specific way. And that was the lens through which it was the pandemic. And I was doom scrolling TikTok like the rest of us. And that's actually how Austin and I met was because I was just scrolling TikTok and I was just like, oh, this seems creator thing seems pretty cool. What's the one piece of value I could actually give to the world? And so my first few videos I just posted on, like, how do you as an underrepresented person, get your first stream job? Because that was my story. And so that's how I started posting on TikTok. That's how Austin I met because we became creator friends through the Internet, which is like a wild concept because we had never met in person before. And then the very first version of Stan I built for my own account because I was like, this is cool. I not only do I get to be creative for the first time in my life, but I also get to help people. The last variable here is like, okay, how do I put food on the table? Before Stan was so clunky, I had like a link in bio into a course website, into a payment processor, into a calendar booking feature, into a community, community hosting software, all this kind of stuff for like hundreds of dollars a month. And so I built Stanford I own account and it was Austin and a couple other my creator friends were just like, yo, dude, like, can I use this as well? And that's the story of Stan. It started with me and a couple creator friends and now a couple years later, we get to work and help support over 60,000 creator entrepreneurs to actually build their business online. And yeah, I'm just really lucky for it.
- [09:39]
Austin Hankiewicz
So that's amazing. And I think it comes back to, you know, a lot of us that are these, you know, aspiring entrepreneurs working those nine to five jobs, feeling miserable at our desk or feeling like we don't have purpose with what we're doing. I mean, I wasn' miserable when I worked at my 9 to 5 job, but man, did it get me fired up to be able to start writing a newsletter for the first time or make TikTok videos or, you know, make this podcast. Right? So to your point, like, not only were you able to go from this like nine to five. Well, really was probably nine to Nine working investment banking on Wall Street. But you felt like you didn't have a purpose to like now you found your purpose as an entrepreneur. And now Stan allows everyone else to also go find their purpose and give them the tools and resources they need to make that first step toward entrepreneurship in a meaningful way.
- [10:22]
Robert Krok
Yeah, I love. And what a great backstory. I was thinking the whole time while you were talking that my last time I punched a clock was 23 years old in the finance department at the car dealership. And that was the last time I ever had a job. Ended very abruptly. We won't go into that, but let's just say it has been a beautiful journey these last 30 years for me. 35 years of just working on my own and scaling and failing back and forth over the decades. And it's just so awesome when you hear the backstory of how something so incredible like Stan that I use every single day in my career of how it comes to be. You know, we all start out with this idea, this concept and how do we bring it to life. And it goes from kind of that napkin drawing to concept to wireframe and really figuring it out. So I love hearing the story. When you see it after the fact and it's scaled, people are using it worldwide and it becomes this great thing. And so speaking of scale, I want to talk about that for a second. You guys have scaled from zero to $30 million in annual recurring revenue in just three years, which to me is really, really incredible because so many young entrepreneurs and budding entrepreneurs think that it just happens overnight, that you have a great idea, you raise some money, you scale, you bootstrap, whatever you do. And then poof, it's this great success. And I always tell people to if you're going to not give it two years to figure it all out, don't quit your day job because it's not going to happen as fast as you think. So you're the CEO of this quarter billion dollar company. What do you think has been the key for that kind of growth in such a competitive space and in such a condensed timeframe?
- [12:03]
John Hu
That's such a good point, Robert. Around like you just see the highlight reel and you're like, oh, you hear all these overnight successes. My fundamental personal belief, and it's just my personal belief is that there are very few people out there who can ever achieve sustained long term success overnight. Like you hear these stories of like the overnight crypto millionaire, what have you, if you haven't earned that right in many ways, you hear about Lottery winners, what have you, they're miserable in their way or they lose it because they haven't stacked days. Is I think all the time now about compounding or stacking days. Like yes, Stan is a story is like three and a half years old or four years since I posted my first TikTok. That was after a decade of learning of like learning how to be in business, of like working on Wall street, how to build a business, how to think about business strategy, how to actually be a great creator myself and like actually add value, how to build a technical product or how to invest in my business. All these things. That was like decades of failure and rejection in the four years that I've been doing this. Constant rejection. But I think the key thing that I would leave anyone with in terms of like, how do you actually get to scale? The core mantra that I think a lot about is just persistence. The key cycle that you will go through in your entire life if you want to find success is you will hit failure. And rather than seeing that as failure, I need to stop. You see it as a learning opportunity and you go up, you fail again, you hit another plateau and you just keep looping and you keep stacking days and you keep showing up and you will like all of a sudden after five years of time of blood, sweat and tears, because I think it actually takes at least a couple of years of doing anything for actually you find a remote amount of success, then you'll start to see that and you'll see that success compound over time. But it's, it's not a highlight reel. The last few years have, have been a journey and honestly very hard on me many times over. And I thought about quitting many times. But here I am getting to do a podcast with you guys. So something kind of worked out.
- [13:38]
Austin Hankiewicz
Yeah man, I'm right there with you. And I think a lot of people know before we get to like the big numbers like 30 million, right. Someone listening is like, wait a second, that's crazy talk. I'm just trying to make my first 30 bucks. Let's talk to them for a second. Right? You know the average person that uses Stan has two or three thousand followers on the Internet. Maybe they just started their YouTube channel. They're looking a link in bio solution for them to perhaps start selling digital downloads or collect some email addresses that they can market to or maybe schedule a one on one call with someone and monetize that time. So what advice could you give now to a new entrepreneur who 20, 25, they tell themselves I'm ready to start making money on the Internet. What's step one, step two, what's maybe a three or six month goal? Tactically speaking, how do they start making money on the Internet using Stan?
- [14:25]
John Hu
So first thing is to isolate what value can you provide the world. And to me, that's the intersection between what you're passionate about and also what you're really good at. So for me, as the business nerd, like the what I was really good at and what I was really passionate about was helping other folks that a similar story to me actually find success. That for me in those first early days was just how do you break in specifically in your first dream job? So I was very good at interviewing and making resumes and like coaching people on how do you do cold emailing and networking? And so all of my content that I made around that was specifically at that intersection between what I was passionate about and what I was good at. And so whether that's personal training for you or, you know, we have tons of customers who like, one of my favorite parts about Stan is like all the random niches you could see. So like bread baking. You mentioned cake making earlier. That's a really good one. We had someone recently who just crossed a couple thousand dollars teaching people how to crochet online. We have lots of dog trainers, golf instructors, surf instructors. Like, there is something out there that you feel disproportionately passionate about, that you would work on for free and do for free, that you're also really good at. And if you find that intersection, the way the algorithms work nowadays is they will put you in front of literally thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, if even millions of people who also find that interesting and want to therefore transact from you. And so there's a step number one, just find that intersection for you. Like, what are you passionate about and what are you really good at? And then from there it's like, how do you just give value? Like the mantra that I run the business on and how we as a team think about things is like, how can we just offer disproportionate value? And so for me, like posting my videos back in the day, I would just get these comments back in the day of like, hey, like, can you help me with my resume? And so I be like, oh, what are all the 10 different interesting ways I can help someone with their resume? I remember one of my first, like viral TikTok videos was just green screening my little resume from back in the day. I had to like, remember my Dropbox login and I just green screen that. I walked through that and I walked through tactically. Why did I leave that bullet there? Why did I put that statement there? And what was my advice for how you can craft your resume? And basically, if you just have this mantra of like, how can I help people? Either how can I help people learn something and educate them, give them value that way, how can I help them feel seen or make them laugh, Right? There's emotional value too. If you just strive to keep over delivering that, that and then persisting on how can I keep improving that in every piece of content you make, then you're going to have a following like within three to six months if you're posting and consistent every single day.
- [16:34]
Robert Krok
I think this really, this conversation illustrates, you know, kind of that importance of your one meeting away, you're one phone call away, one video away from going viral. And I talk about this in every one of my speaking engagements to get people to understand not to quit. Because as we learn along the way and we fail and we grow and we do all these things, we just get that much closer to success. And I really love that about Stan because I feel like what you're doing is you're kind of like this catch all to help that person, that's that upstart entrepreneur really get out there and do it right and put their best foot forward from a professional look in a professional store. And I think that is the key message that I want everyone to know about Stan, because it's been life changing for me. So many people reach out to me in DMs and they're like, man, your Stan store is incredible. How do you do this and how do you do that and how did you integrate this? And it's just really, really cool to see that. And the best part about it is, is because you can do it with a very small following and even if you're virtually unknown at the time, because like you said earlier, we all are at one point.
- [17:45]
Austin Hankiewicz
So I think what's really interesting about what you were just talking about, John, is this idea that so surf instructors, golf instructors, crochet instructors, like people that are like disproportionately passionate about something in their life, how they are able to monetize that. But before we move on to our next question, I want to talk a little bit more about how they're monetizing. Because for me, something that was really hard when I first began making money on the Internet was what in the world is anyone going to pay Me for what would someone give me 25 bucks for? Like, that's just crazy. I can't imagine that. So are these people selling one on one, you know, time, like booking time with them for 50 bucks? Is it maybe a 92 page ebook on how to create a blanket crocheting? Is it a video of maybe that someone made of like teaching how to swing a golf club for the first time? Like, how are these people making digital products that Stan can then help them sell? And then maybe what are some of like Stan's best ways that allow people to upsell and keep that sort of communication going with your existing customers?
- [18:48]
John Hu
Great question. So basically our challenge here is, okay, I have this passion, how do I monetize that? Like tangibly and concretely, what are my products that I'm selling? And so a lot of people think of kind of the old age physical product businesses, right? Let's say you were a surf instructor, like, oh, do I need to sell surfboards? Like I got to go manufacture surfboards and figure out a fulfillment line and supply chain and all this stuff and pay shipping costs and do handling and returns. And there's a ton of friction in that and it's really hard logistically to run. And so that's the beauty of these Internet businesses that we're all building today is that you're using the leverage of the Internet to basically build something once and then sell it many times over. And so some good examples of that that is what you mentioned before. People often start out with like an ebook or a course or what have you. But the real question to think about for yourself at the kind of meta level of like, okay, what can I actually offer as a product is at the end of the day, you're figuring out how to productize yourself. So if there's some sort of advice that people constantly going to you for, or maybe they just like want to hang out with you more, AKA they just want more exclusive content from you. You're just figuring out what is the medium through which I want to deliver someone an additional experience for me. And so a good example of that can be something like a course, but also you can host your community on stand, right? And so what people are doing there is they want access to you and they also want to other like minded people. And so they're purchasing something that's kind of like intangible and ethereal to some degree. Like they could be purchasing knowledge or community or something like that. We have to wrap our heads around this like new kind of product skew out there. Like, this new thing that we all need to think about is like, oh, this is of value. And it's not so much like the old world businesses. Like, I have to go build out like an entire ice cream store instead, like, we have a woman named Ice Cream Bike lady who actually teaches other people how to like, build their own ice cream bike shops. And she's made, made like a couple hundred thousand dollars. It just looked the coolest. Random niches. Or like, we have a guy named Jorge Fades who's a hairdresser who teaches other people how to do specific hairstylings and also teaches other barbers how to build their barber business. So there's just like so many random things that truly, like whatever you're passionate about, you can actually monetize in some way. And those specific, like, products can be anything from an e book, a course, or a community itself. Like, there's just so many different ways to be creative around actually your product itself.
- [20:47]
Austin Hankiewicz
Well, so assuming the person has the product now, right, Like Borge Fades, you mentioned, and they are crushing it. They got a barbershop, they got the course. Hey, here's how you need to start your shop. Here's what the rent looks like, here's what you should be charging all the things around that they have it made, they got the product, they put a bow on it. It's beautiful, it's ready to go. How in the world do they get the word out? Do they just look at the camera and post something on their story and say, hey, like, I just made this, you should buy it? Do they collect an email address for something they give out for free? Then in the email they try and sell it. Like, what are some strategies that entrepreneurs listening right now could be to allow them to make their first thousand dollars from a, I got the product, but now I got to sell it. How do I sell it?
- [21:25]
John Hu
Sure. So you're basically asking the question of how do I get distribution for my business? Right? You guys have set up a business and you have an idea of a product that you think can actually go out there and do well in the market, but now you have to get in front of your customer. And so the old way to do this, which was, like, basically impossible for all of us who come from very little, is like, oh, I have to go spend money to get a TV ad or to buy a newspaper print ad and like, basically get blocked by all these gatekeepers. Right. And so in today's world, world, you can actually build an audience with just your phone and so the most obvious answer here, that all three of us started as it was, we literally just took our iPhones and just started adding value to the world. And the TikTok algorithm, the Instagram algorithm basically just did the work for us. And so you can always start with creating content, but there are also so many other different ways you can do this, right? You could theoretically just purchase ads. Like, we have tons of folks who don't actually have a huge audience themselves, but they also know Facebook ads and they can run ads against their product as well. And so high level, the thing to think through is basically, how do I create an audience that wants to listen to me and buy my product? And then very tactically, if I were to give some really specific examples for folks of how they can best build their business, we see Instagram and YouTube as really high. Converting platforms like, for example, Instagram Stories is a great way to convert people. And then beyond that, you mentioned an email list. A lot of folks will look to use their Stand store on Instagram or TikTok or YouTube, actually drive people to sign up for their email list because the conversion ratio on Stand is super high and we've optimized for that. And then through the email list, you can send an email out to actually say, hey guys, by the way, for Black Friday or Cyber Monday or for New Year, New Me, I've got this new product. But point being, in all of those cases, if you think about it, it's because there's an audience that you've established beforehand. And so the best way to actually grab someone's attention and for them to listen to you and want to buy from you is to create some sort of content with value. So it all stems back to how can I give value through content and therefore build an audience? And then once you have the audience, like you see Mr. Beast for example, on the extreme end, he knows he can launch every single product through this established audience, whether it's a burger chain or a chocolate bar or whatever he has planned next.
- [23:13]
Austin Hankiewicz
That's amazing. Now, before we ask John our next question, let's take a moment to hear from one of this episode's sponsors. Blossom Investing is more fun when you're doing it alongside like minded people. From dividends to growth stocks. There's a community for everyone on Blossom. And remember, Blossom is not an online broker, but instead a social investing app built around transparency.
- [23:32]
Robert Krok
And transparency is key when it comes to investors. You all know just how important this is because you listen to our podcast. I've already connected my personal accounts to Blossom and I enjoy seeing how everything is divided up and performing on a daily basis. Additionally, they offer duolingo style educational video content for those of you still learning.
- [23:54]
Austin Hankiewicz
If you've not yet joined Blossom, we really encourage you to do so. It's an easy way to both find your community of like minded investors, but also manage and analyze your portfolio in a really clean way. They also have new features like custom stock charts and sharing daily performance with your friends inside the app. Click the link in the Show Notes below to sign up for Blossom or simply type in Blossom in the App Store. All right, let's go ask John another question.
- [24:18]
Robert Krok
So you describe Stan as for creators by creators. Can you share with the audience how that philosophy shapes the platform's kind of tools and features and the overall strategy for its users? Because I think that'll be very helpful for people because again, one of the biggest hurdles I think everyone listening that hasn't started yet faces is analysis paralysis. They think it's too hard. Where do I start? What tools do I use? So break that down of what that means for our listeners.
- [24:49]
John Hu
That mantra of being built for creators by creators, like most of the team here were creators and entrepreneurs ourselves, is, I would say, the defining reason why we have been so successful despite there being hundreds of link and bio solutions out there. When I first started Stan, and the best way to think about what Stan is is, y'all understand, is the simplest and easiest way to start your online business. Like we will rest our laurels on that every single time. We work so hard to make sure that we remove as many frictions as possible in terms of starting your own business and getting started. Because I remember back in the day how hard that was for me to balance everything else. And so when you think about me as the entrepreneur, the core founder of this business, and the reason why that mantra that sounds like kind of woo woo actually leads to fundamentally different business results is if you think about it, all these other companies out there, they probably have decent intentions like helping entrepreneurs, but they don't really get it right. They're not in the weeds bleeding the way that I am like making content still to this day, feeling the insecurity, I'm feeling the emotion, I'm feeling the frustration, I'm feeling the highs and the wonderful moments of it too. And so that if you think about yourself as an entrepreneur but also as an artist, like Stan is like kind of the art form that I get to express myself in through. And so every little tiny tactical decision of like what the product looks like, oh, I remember how I was really frustrated with, like, my counter feature not working in this specific way or how long it took me to set up my core software. And so every little decision of making and crafting that product, of that is stand today, has been informed by my own and my team's experiences of us being through the battle ourselves. And so when I think about, okay, how do you measure that as a tangible result? I would challenge you to go look at our trustpilot reviews and then look at any of our competitors. I won't say the numbers, but go look at it yourself and read the reviews. Every single review stands. The best platform out there. I'm so glad I started my business on. It's the simplest and easiest to use. And the last piece that I'm really proud of is our service and our support. Because the thing is, is, like, you need tools to start this stuff, but this shit is lonely and fucking hard. What you need on top of this is education and support from real human beings who get it. And so what you'll see in all of our reviews, because this is not something that I can bias, it's just data, is, holy shit, the SAN team changed my life. Like, the incredible customer service they provide. I'm so proud of our team, of how we show up for people. And so that's really what makes SAN special. And that wouldn't have come if I wasn't a creator myself and understood that, like, I need more than software. I need, like, a really human being in education and courses to support me and actually how do I get to the next level.
- [26:59]
Robert Krok
Yeah, I love that response because I think it's so important when you think about customer service. It feels like it's a lost art in a lost part of business. Nowadays, I get people that reach out to me every single week saying, hey, do you have an insider with Instagram? Do you know somebody inside of TikTok? My account's shut down. This isn't working. This feature isn't working. They don't realize I go through these same issues. And unless you do have a contact or a way to get a hold of somebody, it's really daunting to fix it. And for many of us who have these stores, these Stan stores, it's our lifeblood to all of our products. So I think it's very important. And it really makes me happy to hear that customer service is one of your kind of leading indicators of success and important to you guys as well, because I think it makes people just feel A lot more comfortable with the platform.
- [27:50]
John Hu
Well, that's actually why I love the name Stan for our business. And to give some lore behind that, the reason why I love Stan as a business is because it's a real person's name. And so it's also double meaning in the sense that when I first people are like, oh, like why is it named Stan? It's actually from the Eminem throwback days. Like if you guys remember the Eminem song Stan, which Gen Z then co opted to say, like, I'm someone Stan. Like I, Stan Austin. I, Stan rich habits. Like, I'm a super fan. So I started the business Stan in that context of like, I want us to be everyone's super fan. But now when I think about Stan as the organization and mission and brand that we're building, San to me is like an anthropomorphized real human being. It's that friend. You can call it anytime, right? So a friend that like always has good advice is always there to pick up. Honestly, I think of Austin in that way. Like, I. I think of Austin as like Stan, like the way that he's shown up as a friend and a thought partner and a mentor at times. Like, those are all things that we seek to be for our customers. And so that's why I love the name Stan is what it represents about our values and how we choose to show up for our customers.
- [28:46]
Robert Krok
I love it. I love it.
- [28:47]
Austin Hankiewicz
Yeah, I think it's amazing. And you all obviously are doing that in such a awesome manner because 11,000 entrepreneurs have earned over $1,000 on your platform, right? So that's 11,000 people that are now earning money on the Internet because of the tools, platforms, strategies, all the fun things that Stan has created for them. Before I ask this question, John, I don't think I've asked you this yet. Can you share some of the specific tools? Like you mentioned the email stuff, you also talked about the community, like, what is everything that Stan is capable of, right? Because when someone's, you know, thinking about starting a business online, they probably go to Shopify first and they think, okay, I need a website and I need someone to, you know, I need to sell a product. Product if it's physical or digital. But then they realize, wait a second, now I got to go to mailchimp to do the email. Then they say, wait, I need to go set up the stripe account. And they say, well, now I also got to go to this platform to start my community. So there's a ton of different places People can go, and it's really overwhelming to Robert's point about that, analysis paralysis. So how have you condensed all that into one platform? Using Stan?
- [29:43]
John Hu
Yeah. So Stan is the only thing you need to start your business upfront. And I'll walk you through exactly what those are. Specifically one is you don't need a website anymore. Like the whole big brochure, custom websites that people would spend $10,000 for with an agency before. Like people don't do that anymore. Your website in your brochure, your portfolio, is your social profile. So what you need is a highly converting platform and technically a link in bio, which is what Stan does. So it has the link in bio features. It's also just really easy in terms of the beautiful design and templates that we offer to build your own basically custom website, but within the context of something that's actually mobile optimized. But then from there, what actually makes it easy is everything we handle on the backend. So whether you want to sell courses, some sort of digital product, some sort of community community, whether you want to do coaching bookings and calendar bookings, like we'll manage your calendar for you, we'll automate all that stuff. Whether you want to do webinars, like whether you want to do some sort of consulting services, you want to send invoices. Literally it's just your business in a box. And so that's what we do for people on top of all the email marketing stuff. So we provide email marketing, we also provide DM automation on Instagram. That's a big trend right now. But basically we do all those things. I just listed like 17 different features. You can do the math on how expensive that was before Stan. One thing that we're really proud of, and it just comes from like Costco immigrant roots, is you would guess it's at least like 100, 200 bucks. All that stuff, by the way, if you buy in isolation, is like over 6, $700 a month. Stage is just $29 a month. We are so deeply proud of that. $29 a month to start your entire business of any sort of product or SKU that you want to sell. That is where I fundamentally believe in the deep value that we provide for people. And then on top of the service and the support and the coaching, the care, like I'm just really proud of what we've created.
- [31:12]
Austin Hankiewicz
So I'm also super proud of it. It's so cool to see how far you guys have come as a business since we first met four years ago, five Years ago now. But what do you think? Is it the deep caring that you think is the secret sauce that makes Stan so different than a. Obviously don't want to, like, name competitors, but then a different competitor or, you know, one of the other larger competitors that might start with a B or an L. It sounds silly because it's.
- [31:34]
John Hu
Woo woo, but I think it's a huge part of it. Because if you think about those larger competitors who've been legacy incumbents who are just extracting profits from people like they're owned by big private equity firms, the people clock in nine to five, like, it's not that they don't care or like they don't have good intentions. I would guess most of them have decent intentions because they don't bleed this like we do. Like, they don't obsess over their content like I do on a single night. They don't stress in the same way. Like, they're just like a large corporation. And so those little tiny differences in choices of our mindset and how much we care and our passion, like, I know it sounds so silly and soft, but that has massive disproportionate effects in this world that we live in today, which is one around, quote, unquote, leverage. So, as in the Internet as a medium, like, allows any of us to distribute content or distribute software products or distribute like our thoughts in a way where the top 1% of stuff because you have more passion gets a thousand extra results. And so the takeaway there, I think, for anyone is like, if you're truly passionate about something and you obsess over it and you really care and you persist through it and all the hard times, you will outperform the competition and they can have a 10, 15 year head start.
- [32:35]
Austin Hankiewicz
There's a quote I saw on a video. I think it was by, I think her name's Courtney Johnson. I forget her name, but she's huge now. She makes so much money on the Internet and she was working 9 to 5 job before this. But she said, I saw somewhere, this is her saying, so this now too. She goes, I saw somewhere where if you post on the Internet every day for one year that you won't have to worry about money again for the rest of your life because you'll figure out a way to monetize your audience in a meaningful manner that you can quit your 9 to 5 job and be an entrepreneur around a passion of yours versus just clocking in and out at a desk. And I saw that, I was like, man, that's Crazy. Then I'm like, yo, she's kind of right though because like the there is that mom out there that loves baking. That should talk about it more. There's that one person out there that might have a weird passion for making chapstick from scratch in their garage. And I guarantee you that that person is one video to Robert's point. One video, one zoom call, one phone call away. One stand store away from their life, completely changing. So again, if this is me grabbing you by the shoulders as a listener and telling you, go start that business, there's a guy I follow on TikTok that makes these awesome leather belts. He makes them from scratch in his garage. He charges like 90 bucks for them or something. And he sold thousands upon thousands upon thousands of these just on the TikTok shop. And he's like this 28 year old dad who's got this weird hobby of making leather belts. And people turn out, they love it. So like I'm telling you, there's something out there for you and you need to start in 2025. You need to try it. Stan's going to be the easiest way for you to not just get the word out about it, but monetize it and build a business around something that you're super passionate about.
- [34:02]
Robert Krok
I always relate it back to and Austin, you've heard this story many times when I had business partners making fun of me for making a TikTok 3, four years ago and they were like, what are you doing man? You're a 50 some year old man. And TikTok and Instagram and all that is for kids dancing. And it changed my life because I'll never forget that moment of them actually teasing me and making fun of me at that time. And that was right when I blew up, right when I started really, really growing in the space. And now we look back two, three years later and millions of dollars less later in revenue. And it's just so amazing that, you know, my father, when I was really young and I'm going to cuss here, he used to say, son, there's an ass for every seat. And it really stuck with me because it really speaks to these niches and these super niches that we talk about where someone can really find their crowd as long as they stick with it no matter what their passion is. And I think Stan is the best tool to usher those people along. So let's talk about when scaling a business like Stan requires vision and it requires the ability to pivot as someone that has built such a huge company in a fast paced world of the creator economy. What's the most surprising or challenging part of your journey so far?
- [35:22]
John Hu
I'm like, there's so much. What should I pick?
- [35:25]
Robert Krok
Give us, give us a good one, no matter how funny it is.
- [35:28]
John Hu
So I'll first say to your broader point, everything that you want is on the other side of cringe. And that's kind of the whole process of entrepreneurship is cringe. Interpretation of like the insecurity of it all or like the struggle and failure of it all. And so I can give you a ton of specific moments in which I've really questioned my ability and then I'll give you the higher level thing that's actually worth taking away for everyone is when I was first trying to raise money to start this business, how many rejections did I get? Hundreds of rejections when I was first trying to get our first few customers. By the way, the first version of Stan was basically somewhat similar to what we have today. I literally made a second second account. It was called Coach who? And all I did was I posted multiple pieces of videos every single day teaching about how to monetize their social media following. I would talk about funnels and I break down email marketing, all this tactical stuff every day over three or four months. Built a following of 20K. And every single time someone would follow me that felt like someone who might actually benefit from Stan, I would personally follow them back and DM them and I would beg people to get on the phone and talk about sand because I just wanted to help them and also get them to be a Stan customer. And so many of them said no or like it wasn't a fit. And that was okay because we always joke with at Stan, it's like every person who leaves or doesn't come back is just a bad boyfriend. Could they always come back? Because there's literally nothing more affordable and also more powerful and valuable out there. But like I would just constant rejection. Constant ghosting too. The lack of noise, especially when you first start posting and things aren't hitting, that almost creates more hopelessness in you. And so like the higher level thing in terms of the hardest thing here is the mental game. Because what I've learned at this point is there's always a new challenge. Like your reward for succeeding is more hard things. Your reward for solving a problem is a hard, harder problem. And so it's both a mental thing in terms of your mindset of like, I can get through this. Like if you're posting right now, you've Tried a couple posts and it hasn't landed so far. You have a couple of views and you feel kind of embarrassed about it and humiliated. Like Austin, Robert and I have all felt that way, still feel that way pretty constantly. It's about the mental mindset of how do I iterate through this? Okay, what was the pattern of the last thing that actually worked? What's the comment saying? That's giving me some insight of like how should I double down on this and keep iterating?
- [37:25]
Robert Krok
Right.
- [37:25]
John Hu
So it's, it's how do I get through this thing and also dealing with the emotional piece of it because I think where people get stuck the most actually isn't in the day to day doing. Because the format is this simple, we've alluded to it many times. Start posting content every single day about something you're passionate about. And I promise you in a year I will personally bet you money if you do that every single day for a year, you will be successful. So the tactical stuff here is really straightforward. Pull your phone, start talking on a selfie video and you will keep iterating and you will succeed. The hard part is the emotional mindset game because in that you're going to feel scared to post. Well, my high school, like random acquaintance who doesn't think about me anymore, think of me or like what will my spouse think of? Or like, oh, I'm so scared to take the leap on terms of doing this. Or like for me now scaling business, like how can I hire these employees and make sure that I can take good care of them like if they're going to join my mission. I got to like, I'm so fearful that like we're not going to be able to take care of them or the business is going to work out or like with all of our customers, like I can't disappoint them. There's so many emotional things around that and that's the hardship. And so building emotional and mental resilience, I think that's probably the hardest thing and it just keeps collaborating in different ways.
- [38:21]
Austin Hankiewicz
I think it's a wonderful answer because really that first point you made and rounded off this answer with is everything good is on the other side of cringe. And it took me two years, two good years, 2020 to 2022. I mean it was really that whole time where like I was so embarrassed to post on TikTok, so embarrassed to have people discover my reposting, you know, Instagram, real, you know, Instagram account because I'd never repost anything on my own account. And like, God, dude, I was just like, what am I doing right? Like, what if this doesn't work? Like, what do people think this is? Cringe. Like, I need to just go back to my job. Like, whatever. I just Reflecting now on these insane numbers that Robert and I shared about the pod, right? 70,000 people have us as their number one podcast in 2024. 300,000 people have us in their top five. It's like, that's 70,000 lives that Robert and I have positively impacted because we came on the other side of cringe. And the person listening right now who is still battling with that cringe, especially if you're still in high school or college or a recent graduate or maybe, you know, you're in your early 30s and all your buddies are, like, at the golf course or figuring some stuff out and you're like, no, I think I'm going to make this Facebook post about, like, making chapstick in my garage for the first time. See what people think about it, right? And, you know, it's not what your friends think about the content, it's what the Internet thinks about the content. And so, like, for example, I remember posting videos or a newsletter or whatever, you know, content I was talking about and making at the time when I was still trying to overcome this. And a lot of that was, like, I'd see some people throwing it in the high school, college group chats, clowning me. But then on the same token, I got these 418 comments from strangers on the Internet saying, your videos are the best. Or, you know, this newsletter really changed my perspective on investing. Or I invested for the first time because of you in this video. Or, you know, I made a video about Mattel Barbie stock, right? The Barbie movie. It was a video, got millions of views on the Internet. And I got a call from one of my childhood friends, parents that were like, I started investing because I saw that video, and I'm in my 40s, and because of this video, like, you got me to hear about investing for the first time. And so it's just so cool to think about. And it's so cool that you're aligned with that John as well, that everything good on the Internet is on the other side of cringe. You just have to get past that cringe. And sometimes the cringe is from your friends, from your family, family, from colleagues. Like, that's cringe. But there's also the cringe of, like, the interpersonal feeling of, oh, it's only got 200 views on this video, no one cares about it. Or I just launched this product and I haven't sold a single thing in two weeks. Like I need to give up on this. Like that inner cringe too can also really hurt. But it seems like Stan's done a great job of not just being an awesome platform, but also being there for creators when they do need that, some of that encouragement and someone to pat them on the back when they do something.
- [40:57]
John Hu
Well, I think the mantra that we live by is just like give, give, give and if you help other people, you up yourself. The other secret that I'll share in terms of there's just two main themes that I've seen across all our most successful creators and entrepreneurs and also multiple successful people. And it's one we've talked a lot about which is persistence. So persisting through the cringe like in this, I think about my immigrant mom and the way she persisted to take care of me growing up. Like moving here with a six month old, not really speaking language, learning the language, taking on a job where she was like the only woman in a male dominated engineering field. Like all these things I learned from her, I'm so grateful for that grit. There's the grid and perseverance and then, then there's this little tiny difference in mindset that separates our successful customers with our extremely successful customers. And I would put you guys in that category too, is a service based mindset. Because I think we all, especially if you come from a kind of a place of scarcity like myself included, like my whole career early on I was like me, me, me, me. Like I need to get this great job to like feel whole inside and all this kind of stuff. And then you realize, you know, you end up being empty after you achieve those things. And then I got so lucky. Austin and I have connected this back in the day. Shout out to Gary Vee. As much of a meme as he is now. He shifted our mindset around like give, give, give. And as soon as I understood that life hack, I believe it's a life hack where I started thinking about how can I help other people? So for my content it was like how can I help other people get their first stream job? Literally the floodgates opened in an abundance mindset thing. It's like woo manifestation. But it's so true when I see the different flavor of entrepreneur that ends up being highly successful in this new industry. It's the people who of course they want to get their own bag and take care of their family. Like we're all just human beings. We have to take care of ourselves. But then on top of that they're like, I have a greater purpose, I'm here to serve. And so whether it's like serving people in terms of like, I'm going to help you build your business or I have the tactical knowledge to help you, like actually, you know, figure out underwater basket weaving, like how do I bring joy to someone's life in some way or bring happiness or fulfillment or safety? Like those are the people who end up being hyper successful. So it's persistence and a service based mindset and that's what we really firmly believe at. Stan.
- [42:43]
Robert Krok
I couldn't agree more. And a big part of our podcast and the Rich Habits network is really about mindset. I truly believe. And you use the word wisdom. Woo woo. Which was really big 20 years ago with everyone talking about mindset and gratitude and all that. But I just think it's so real because our body and our minds really absorb what we feed it. And I just think that the people that do tend to give and do tend to provide value first really do become the highly successful people. It has happened every single day. I told a young entrepreneur that today he is texting me and spamming me like all of them every single day in my DMs. And he's like, man, why are you not taking me up on this? I go, have you, you ever thought that maybe you should drop all the chat GPT sales approaches and just provide me some value and show me an example of what you can do? So I really resonate with that and that's probably why we really enjoy you. But then also Stan, because it is more than just transactional things happening in our life. And I have learned firsthand probably in the last 10 years that the more you give and the more value you provide, the more that it comes back back to you. So I agree with you 100% on this line of thinking when it comes to mindset.
- [43:57]
Austin Hankiewicz
Now, before we ask John our last question, let's take a moment to hear from one of this episode's sponsors, Titan. Titan is an award winning wealth management firm reimagining how ambitious high earning professionals manage and experience their wealth. From their New York headquarters they aim to build the Wall street firm of the future.
- [44:14]
Robert Krok
That's right, Austin. A super interesting company here. Titan is like having a personal investment advisor in your pocket. They've opened up an institutional investment playbook to individual investors offering everything from active management and private markets to classic indexes and alternatives.
- [44:32]
Austin Hankiewicz
Their flagship alpha Strategy is especially interesting to me, Robert, because it's this concentrated portfolio of 15 to 20 high quality single stocks. They focus on stocks with durable competitive advantages and high returns on invested capital. They're essentially investing in the best of breed names on your behalf.
- [44:49]
Robert Krok
And what really sets Titan apart is their advisory of approach. You get direct access to a team of investment professionals who proactively share market views and can actually walk you through any questions you have around money. Think of it as having a private wealth manager in your pocket, but without having the traditional wealth manager's fees or bureaucracy. There's too many features and perks for us to break down right now, which is why we highly recommend you try Titan for yourself, especially if you're a high earner. So click the link in the show notes for one month of free membership.
- [45:24]
Austin Hankiewicz
Again, click the link in the Show Notes below to get one month of free membership. Let's now ask John our final question.
- [45:32]
Robert Krok
So with the countless ways people can earn money on the Internet, the big question of the day today is what's next for Stan? Are there new tools, new features or initiatives on the horizon that these entrepreneurs can look forward to Share with our audience right now, if there's something cool and fun on the horizon that we can talk about.
- [45:53]
John Hu
So the end goal vision for staying in the legacy that I want us to be known for is that we fundamentally shifted the entrepreneurial success curve upwards. So like, if you think about how many small businesses go out of business in their first year because it's so hard, that curve of success over time, we want to literally be known for shifting that upwards. And so everything that we think about is through that lens of like, how can we help more entrepreneurs and small businesses who are putting their neck out there and trying to like be vulnerable in this way, like, how can we help them? And so in terms of all the things that we're launching this year, they're all around, how can we actually help you get to success faster? How can we help you set up stuff easier and more simpler, even though we're already the simplest way not going to make you more money faster. And so a lot of the stuff that we'll be doing this year is around as soon as you join Stan, all the resources you're going to get. So the education. We just launched a mobile app that's just going to kind of like duolingo for entrepreneurship. So you get like daily reminders around like, you know, hey, like this is the marketing post you should make. And also, by the way, here's some content that the team has made around the five different kinds of Instagram story posts that work, have worked for us. All that stuff is going to come out next year on top of just improving all of our core products. And so what I mean by that, by buzzword core products is like for example, what are all the ways that we can optimize on the edges for how much more money you can make? So a good example of this that we shipped this last year is this thing called an order bump, which you know, I oftentimes think about like there's no free lunch in life, there's no silver bullet except for order bumps is what I've learned. And what I mean by that is for anyone who out there who has a sales page, there's this thing called a little or bump. It's like always like the. But wait, here's a one time offer. That little thing we shipped and we have a bunch of other versions of that coming out this coming year. That in itself self, if we see our customers turn that on, it's an immediate 20 to 30% increase in sales. Like there's never been like there's all these little things like this. So for example, we just shipped DM Automation on Instagram. There's all these little things like this that are going to optimize around the edges for you all in one place so you don't have to have like 17 different solutions and manage all these different software subscriptions all for $29 and month and specifically help you kind of maximize and optimize your income. Because at this point what we've built is all the foundation of everything you need to get started. So now it's taking you from going from 0 to 1 to then optimizing like 2%, 2%, 2% every day where you compound, all of a sudden you've got 300% returns on your effort that you're doing. And that's what we're focused on at Stan at this point.
- [47:57]
Austin Hankiewicz
That's amazing, man. I'm so excited for you guys with 2025, I can't wait to download this Duolingo like entrepreneur app. Are you kidding me, man? I'm checking in every day, I'm over here, I'll be saying all the sentences I'll be doing, watching the videos, trying to learn a new language called entrepreneurship, baby. That's what I'm talking about.
- [48:14]
John Hu
Yeah, I'm excited for it to come out. It's the fun stuff now that we're doing to really help you guys like actually succeed in your experience because we've built all the best fundamental tools and so now it's like how do we help usher you along the journey?
- [48:25]
Austin Hankiewicz
No, I love that. Right? Because like at the end of the day you guys, to your point, you've got all the tools in front of you now. Like there's that person that's like, okay, cool. Like still analysis paralysis though. Like I get you guys are the platform, I get what's going on. I made the account but like I don't even know what to type on the keyboard to start with, the names of stuff or how you know. So going from that zero to one, I agree is like really, really important. But then also like helping those people to the point of the order bump or the. I know you guys got email flows now. Like it's just so cool the stuff you guys have that are so important for entrepreneurs. So as you guys can tell, Robert and I are jazzed up about Stan. Yes, I'm an investor but I'm more of a believer than anything in this company. I am so, so, so excited. There's going to be countless of you listening right now that are going to make your first thousand dollars on the Internet, your first $10,000 on the Internet in 2025 through Stan because you started this cool passion of a really weird like making ice cream on a bicycle or whatever the heck you were talking about. And it's going to allow you to make life changing money and we're rooting for you every step of the way and we can't tell you how to invest the money so that you're maximizing all of your opportunities. So keep listening to the show. And John, thanks so much for hanging man.
- [49:29]
John Hu
Thank you guys so much for having me. And to everyone listening, go out there, go build, go persist. I would love to get to support you along the way.
- [49:36]
Robert Krok
Yes, thank you guys all so much for listening each and every week. John, thanks for joining. We love Stan and tell our listeners, is there a specific email or a place if they get stuck or they have questions about the platform, where can they reach out and to who so they can get those answers handled?
- [49:54]
John Hu
Yeah, you can just personally DM me. Like I'm a real human being. That's the thing is like a lot of these corporations are like, ah, what email? It's like, dude, just DM me. I'm like, this is the best part for me. I don't get to do it enough of like working with our customers one on one. Like you have any questions about Stan like, wanted to just get someone like experts thoughts on like how you can monetize or optimize your funnel. Just shoot me a dm. It's at Jhovy J A Y H O V Y. And I'd be happy to chat at.
- [50:15]
Austin Hankiewicz
Jhovy and at Stanford Creators on Instagram. I love it. Thanks everyone and have a great start to your week.