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- [00:01]
Commercial Narrator
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- [00:31]
Austin Hankwitz
So good, so good, so good.
- [00:33]
Commercial Narrator
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- [00:43]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
How did I not know Rack has Adidas?
- [00:45]
Yannick Malling
Cause there's always something new.
- [00:46]
Commercial Narrator
Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices.
- [00:57]
Yannick Malling
That's why you rack hey everyone and
- [01:01]
Austin Hankwitz
welcome back to the Rich Habits Radar, our Friday episode of the Rich Habits Podcast where every Friday morning we're coming at you with the biggest headlines impacting you and your money. This episode is brought to you by vcx, the public ticker for private tech. We actually just wrapped up an incredible interview in New York City with Yannick Malling, the co CEO of Public. Spotify was gracious enough to let us borrow their studio to host this conversation, so we're going to cut to that interview right after this. But I want you all to understand something before we jump to that interview. Public just rolled out a feature that they shared with the Rich Habits Podcast and the audience here that we have built with you all before they've even had a press release or shared it with the public. Right. This product doesn't get publicly released until Tuesday, March 31, but Janik decided to jump on our show and talk about building it and how it's going to transform your wealth building strategies before that because they love the Rich Habits podcast everything we do here. So this interview is great. They are essentially coming out and saying that they are rolling out AI agents with their brokerage, becoming the world's first agentic brokerage. It's unbelievable. It's a crazy mindboggling product that they are releasing on Tuesday, March 31 and you all get a little bit of a sneak peek ahead of time.
- [02:22]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Yeah, my mind is not blown very often, but I had goosebumps sitting through the Entire podcast. It's just incredible what they've built. You guys all know that we talk about Public all the time. We've been working with them for years. And this product. Everyone listening, please take a moment. Tuesday, March 31. Go to public.com if you don't already have an account. If you do go there, look up the Agentic Agent tab and get in there, start playing around with it. It is absolutely mind bending to me. I can't wait myself. This is the future. This, this is where things are going. And it's going to make all of you better investors over time because you're going to have all these tools that they just keep adding to make us all better. And then also, and this is kind of a fun thing for any of you that are on the fence of joining the Rich Habits Network. We're also going to be putting all of our prompts that we've created with our team and we're going to put all of those inside the Rich Habits Network for free. So you'll have all the sauce after March 31st. But make sure you check out public.com their agentic AI tab. It is mind blowing and it was such an incredible interview.
- [03:30]
Austin Hankwitz
With that being said, Robert, let's cut to the interview. Okay?
- [03:40]
Yannick Malling
Okay.
- [03:41]
Austin Hankwitz
Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Rich Habits podcast, a top 10 business podcast on Spotify brought to you by public.com by the end of today's episode, you are going to understand how AI agents actually work, how investors can use them to automate their portfolio strategies, and why this could represent one of the biggest shifts in how people invest toward their futures. My name is Austin Hankwitz and I'm joined by my co host, Robert Kroke. Robert is a seasoned entrepreneur with lifetime revenues over 300 million. And I am a multimillionaire in my late 20s with a background in finance and economics. As the show name might suggest, every episode, Robert and I talk about Rich Habits as they relate to business, finance and mindset. So, Robert, what are we talking about in today's episode?
- [04:29]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
In today's episode of the Rich Habits podcast, we're talking about a monumental shift that is changing how everyday retail investors execute their respective investment strategies. What if instead of constantly watching the market and executing trade yourself, you could simply describe what you want to happen and and have software like AI agents do it for you? Well, that's exactly what today's guest is building. We're excited to welcome Yannick Malling, co founder and co CEO of Public. And Public is taking another big step forward by becoming what they call the world's first agentic brokerage. Introducing AI agents that allow investors to automate their portfolio strategies based on simple prompts. So I'm so excited for this episode. Yannick, welcome to the Rich Habits podcast.
- [05:14]
Yannick Malling
Thanks. It's great to be here.
- [05:15]
Austin Hankwitz
Dude, this is going to be so fun.
- [05:17]
Yannick Malling
Really fun.
- [05:17]
Austin Hankwitz
I'm so jazzed. Congratulations on building this product. It's off the back of Generated Assets, which came out pretty recently. I think our audience is very familiar with that. I've been talking about that one for a while. But it's going to be so fun to dig into what you guys are now doing with this technology of AI agents.
- [05:33]
Yannick Malling
Yeah, no, for sure.
- [05:34]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
And we really appreciate you letting the Rich Habits podcast people hear it first. So we're so excited. So before we get into this, let's define this clearly. When people hear AI agents, it can mean a lot of different things. Maybe they don't even know what the term means as of yet. So, Yana, can you please define for us what an AI agent is? And then in the context of public, what exactly is an AI agent for your portfolio going to do?
- [06:01]
Yannick Malling
Yeah, absolutely. I think the easiest way to think about it is there's a tab in the public app called Agents. You go in there, you click Create New, and then you have a text field. You can describe anything that you want your agent to do on your behalf. So it can be anything from automating simple strategies like always buy Nvidia if it's down 3% for the week, to things like automating cash management, things like if I have money sitting in my bank account not yielding anything, always move that every Friday to my bond portfolio out public and a million other examples in between. And so it's really a way for folks to be way more disciplined about their investment, I think, especially people who are not glued to the screen 24 7, aka day traders, who've always had this little bit, you know, of an edge, maybe of just like spending way more time on their portfolios thinking about their investing strategies and executing them. And I think when we step back and we look at the sort of couple of shifts we've been through already in this AI cycle. You know, we started in 2023 with research, and so you can think of that as having now researchers available at your disposal to research any company you want in depth. Then with Generated Assets, we got into asset creation. So this is the ability to build your own product essentially from a prompt. You know, like, I want to invest in founder led companies that are growing more than 50% year over year with no debt whatever the prompt might be based on sort of your unique view. And again, that's something that, I mean historically, like you would need probably 30, 40, 50 million bucks at a JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs as a client to have them actually build sort of structured products for you. And now it's taking action. It's like having a set of executing traders and quants and just like people available at your disposal. But you don't need to know how to code, you don't need to do any of that stuff. You just go to the agents tab, you instruct the agent with whatever it is that you wanted to do and they'll carry it out in your public account securely and transparently.
- [08:22]
Austin Hankwitz
So I want to take a step back because this really, the kind of examples you just quickly gave reminded me about investment plans, right? Which was, hey, I want to invest $500 every month into these specific names. And I would argue that those were more maybe rigid. But what you're describing and what you all have built is dynamic, right? You would be, you know, rules based, buying these names at a specific time, whatever with the investment plans. But now it's more like only buy that if it's down a little bit. Or maybe only buy it if they had a good earnings call, you know, whatever it might be.
- [08:55]
Yannick Malling
Exactly. That's 100%, right? I think we've been in this E era of building these graphical user interfaces where you have to build for the sort of 80% use case that most people want to do. And then inevitably, what always happens, I can tell you this as the person in charge of product, all the feedback comes in and you're looking at all these small bells and whistles here and there and you're always like, ah, we'll really have time to add all that stuff. It clutters the user interface. The agentic framework completely changes that. Because to your point, now you can just define whatever investment plan you want. It can be based on, hey, you know, start dollar cost averaging into these companies, but not if the PE ratio is over 50, then wait a little bit and then if it's below 20, do twice the amount that I would regularly do. And so you can start to really fine tune your strategies in a whole new way. And I think that's super powerful. Another way that I tend to explain this is for the longest time there's been sort of, you know, people who know how to write code and people who have investing ideas or strategies and the overlap between those have been quite slim. Yeah. What's happened now is this has been completely eclipsed because every like you don't need to write the code, you just prompt an agent with it and it runs, like I said, safely and securely within your authenticated kind of public brokerage account. Wow.
- [10:23]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
For me it's all about what you guys are building, leveling the playing field for the everyday person. That isn't tech savvy, but one of the big messages we have at the Rich Habits podcast and in our network is always about arming people with the best tools because we want people to actively manage their money. We don't want them going to a broker, putting their money for 30 years in target date funds and leaving hundred of percent of gains on the table over the years. And so tools like this just make me so, for a better word, giddy. Because I feel like it just opens the door for the everyday person to be able to actively manage their money better and figure it out so they can beat the benchmarks we've been so used to. I love, love, love.
- [11:08]
Yannick Malling
And by the way, it's free of charge.
- [11:09]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
That's right.
- [11:10]
Yannick Malling
We're not actually charging anything for this. I totally agree. I think taking a step back, you know, you've. In our industry, you've been through a couple of cycles where you sort of had trading going online back in the 90s or whatever. Right. And that gave birth to the discount broker. Then you had trading going mobile, that gave birth to the neo broker. And now in the era of AI, you'll see the era of the agentic brokerage.
- [11:37]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Yeah.
- [11:38]
Yannick Malling
What's uniquely interesting about this shift versus the others is if you go back to when trading used to happen on the phone, the role that a brokerage plays, you'll remember this was much more full service, like your broker actually call you every other day with ideas, research, risk management tips. And then as we as an industry streamlined the brokerage interface, how you basically communicate with your broker to your do it yourself on the web, you tap on the phone. We reduce the role of the broker to be ultimately just trade execution.
- [12:14]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Yeah.
- [12:14]
Yannick Malling
Which is. Is what it is today, or I would say yesterday. Right. And now with the shift to agentic, that's changing again. Because now the brokerage role can be very full service. It can be monitoring your portfolio on your behalf 24, 7. It can be thinking about, you know, how markets, what happens in the world, how you might want to protect yourself, how you might want to hedge things. And by the way, you can do A lot more than your average broker in the 80s could do. Right? Because it can actually write an algorithmic trading script in 20 seconds if you wanted to. And it can do all these insane things. And so it is really a very powerful tool. And in the last 10 years especially, we've spent a lot of time collectively in this industry of opening up the markets to everyone. And so I think now everybody has access to trade pretty much all the same assets at the same cost. If you think about what comes after that, it's making sure that they have the tools available to sort of participate on the same terms, not just in terms of cost, but in terms of how sophisticated can they be, how disciplined can they be around their investing strategies and so forth. And what's really awesome right now is I can tell you, you know, the folks at the hedge funds are all the big financial institutions, like they're not sitting on software that's much more sophisticated. In fact, many times it's the opposite. I mean, the amount of people just after the generated assets launch that reached out to us from the institutional side asking if they could license that software has been staggering.
- [13:53]
Austin Hankwitz
That's amazing. Yeah, worse off?
- [13:54]
Yannick Malling
No, 100%. And like so many people were like, hey, this could like save me so much time. Quants reaching out to me. Everything from like this sea levels to like a quant hitting you up on LinkedIn, being like, yo, can I, can I get access to this? And sort of like last 10 years, democratized access. Now it's about democratizing basically tools, method, strategies.
- [14:14]
Austin Hankwitz
Now, before we ask Janik our next question, we are officially entering the second quarter of 2026 and uncertainty has never felt so high. The major indices have not experienced durable uptrends for months now. The Fed has completely flip flopped on their rate cut assumptions. And inflation is becoming incredibly stif sticky. Which is why it has never been more important to have a plan and to stick to it. And if you're a long term investor like us, that plan has never been easier to come up with and implement, which is dollar cost average and ride the wave.
- [14:48]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Yeah, we've been talking about dollar cost averaging and how important it is for years now. And when the markets feel shaky, it's hard to see your progress. This is why we recommend being part of a social platform like Blossom Social. On Blossom, you're able to see your entire portfolio in a very cle simple way. Your holdings, your performance, your dividends, all of it.
- [15:09]
Austin Hankwitz
You're also able to follow other long term investors on the platform, helping you stay motivated during uncertain times like these. Not to mention the portfolios on Blossom are all verified. So if you're seeing someone buy or sell a name, it's because they actually did it in their own brokerage account. Like on public, you do a little trade. On Public, Boom Auto populates on their Blossom profile.
- [15:30]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
So if you want to join us, search Blossom Social in the App Store or head over to blossomsocial.com on your phone or desktop. There's also a link in the show Notes below.
- [15:40]
Austin Hankwitz
Back to our conversation with Yannick Mulling. So I want to talk a little bit more about agents, because I think they're very different than what maybe the average listener right now might perceive AI as AI came to be late November, right around Thanksgiving, back in 2022, when ChatGPT was all the rave opening, I was like, we got this new product. You prompt it, you talk to it, it's great. And then openclaw got really exciting, maybe late January, early February, and I started using OpenClaw. I've got an assistant, his name's Frank. He's great. Shout out, Frank. But these agents, right, The. The agent that I built with openclaw, they're not prompted like a Chat GPT. It's not a. I have this question. Answer it. We as investors need to make a fundamental shift as to how we think about investing away from. I know exactly what I want to. This is the goal I want to achieve. When you look at generated assets on the surface, and it's great that you guys come up with some prompt ideas, but, like, you gotta kind of know what you're looking for, right? We gave this example. I want to invest in companies that advertise on Mr. Beast YouTube videos. Like, that's. That could be a generated asset prompt, but you have to know what that prompt is. But now it seems like with what you've built, it's less of a I have to know what I want and more of I know I want to know where I'm going.
- [16:56]
Yannick Malling
I think actually it's both. And I think you're seeing a shift. You're definitely seeing the shift from just entering orders to expressing intent. And I think that's like the first thing, right? And that's a big deal because again, I agree. I think as an investor, you gotta change your mindset a little bit. Like, we've always been used to this world where it's like, ultimately all your research and stuff ends up in. I want to buy a hundred shares of Apple at market or at this limit price. Now it Might be like, I wanna make certain types of moves if correlations shift between this or that or if earnings sentiment of positive or negative. And so you're just stating the goal and the instruction. And the agent will basically compile all that for you and run it securely in your account. And one thing that we spend a lot of time on actually to really get right is there's this term in the air world called one shotting.
- [17:58]
Austin Hankwitz
Okay, what does that mean?
- [17:59]
Yannick Malling
That means like if you're using an AI to build a website, it's like can it do it in the first go?
- [18:04]
Austin Hankwitz
Okay. And Call of Duty little one shot.
- [18:07]
Yannick Malling
Yeah, exactly, exactly, kind of like that. And, and I think a lot of people have been really focused on building AI things that one shot things. Now the problem is when you're trying to design an AI to one shot, an objective, it has to make a lot of assumptions. And then the more assumption has to make, the higher is the chance that it makes some mistakes. So we've built our AI quite differently because it works in the world of investing. We want to get the details right. And so you will see that your agent actually asks you a lot of follow up questions. It will be like obviously the basics, like you have a very vague prompt. It's like say that I want a dollar cost into Nvidia whenever it's down 2% or the price earnings multiple is within a certain range. Simple, simple example like that. First it will ask you like okay, which account you want to do this in? You like you have multiple accounts on public, right? Ira. We have crypto IRA now all the stuff. So like okay fine, then what's the amount? Then it even might even fix like hey, do you want to do market orders? We could do a little limit order with a collar maybe whatever happens in the extended hours because obviously stocks move in the extended hours. So it's trying to get all the details exactly right before it then proposes you with this workflow where it spells out in plain English exactly what it is going to do if you activate it. It even visualizes a little sort of flowchart workflow. So for folks that are a little bit more like myself, a little bit more sort of visual in how they think about things, you'll see exactly kind of what it's doing. You hit activate and it runs in your account and there's no need to worry about security, which obviously with OpenClaw has been a big kind of topic or you know, think about authentication or any of that stuff. Then it just runs once it's running, you have full access to see everything that it's doing. So the way I actually invest my account right now is I come in in the morning, I open my pour cup of coffee, I open my public account and I go to the agents tab and I see a full feed log of every single, not just trade or money movement that it's made, but every single check that it's been doing on my account. So it's like a fully translucent box, not a black box. It's like you have the complete view, transparency and then obviously control. Right. So if you ever disagree with it, you can edit them easily, you can pause, you can delete, you can obviously do all those kinds of things. And so I think it's the easiest, safest way to start using AI agents for investing.
- [20:45]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
I want to linger on the mindset part because I think it's a very important feature of what you talked about moving forward. Because as people and I deal with this every single day in my DMs and private calls that I do with people all the time, everyone is so fearful of investing because they feel like they don't have the knowledge and they don't have any control. They're working with a broker or they're in their 401k and I really think you hit something that's really important and that is what you've built gives them more mindset, comfort and control. Because as they learn through these prompts, it's going to make them feel more confident and that's going to make them do better, but also invest more because they're going to feel like they actually know what they're doing with their money. It's remarkable. I do one on one calls all the time with people and they'll say, I'll be like, well what's in here? What's in there? What are your fees? What do you charge at your broker? They have no idea. They have no idea. They're like, this is the list of things we're invested in. I'm like, well do you understand it? They don't. And I believe this tool is really going to help because the mindset part is so important to get rid of the fear and the anxiety that people deal with when working to build wealth and create financial freedom.
- [21:57]
Yannick Malling
Exactly. Like I'll give you an example that that happened recently in my account. All the stuff with Iran started heating up and I asked it like, hey, how am I looking here? Which positions are likely to be the most affected by this? You know, any, any ideas for steps I can take to just like hedge myself a little bit in the short term and it does give you that full breakdown in that analysis. And then ultimately I can just be like, okay, great, let's buy these protected puts. Yeah, you know, that are one month out. And then, you know, I got a little bit of a hedge for 10% of my portfolio. Great, sounds lovely. And so we see it as a user interface shift, because I think it is, it is a different user interface and it changes how you interact ultimately with your brokerage account potentially in a much bigger way than the shift from phone to web or web to mobile even. Because like I said, it's less about entering the orders and it's more about keeping that high level view and then expressing the intent. And then this thing will do all the nitty gritty groundwork for you.
- [23:02]
Austin Hankwitz
So when I reflect upon my relationship with my Open Claw, right, I went out and I bought the Mac Mini. So it wasn't on all my like files and stuff, right. I, I took my own sort of personal security and I did things that way.
- [23:14]
Yannick Malling
But you're running the public openclaw skill. I'm hoping.
- [23:17]
Austin Hankwitz
I certainly am. But my question now here is like, okay, public has my Social Security number, you guys have my bank account information. You guys are doing all this stuff. How can I trust you? What safeguards are in place? Like the person listening right now, that's in their 50s. That's like, wait, I'm still kind of just weirded out by logging into plaid to begin with. What safeguards are in place to ensure that all of that information is completely safe.
- [23:39]
Yannick Malling
So you're hitting on an excellent point. And we, we kind of learned this. I think we were the first still only I think brokerage to actually have an official openclaw skill. And that business has been great for us. It's really taking off. You've probably seen a bunch of viral examples of people building stuff, but the Open Claw founder even himself said was like, hey, I did not build this for non technical people when he was addressed about security vulnerabilities. And I think he even had a couple of questions around finance and health and things where you don't want it to kind of go wrong. I built this like it'll get there maybe one day. But right now I built this for technical people who are comfortable with full autonomy, having zero control, knows how to mitigate the security risks and knows how to get this thing up and running in the first place. And so what we've heard is we saw a lot of people looking a little bit enviously from the sidelines of the technical people like you, like Steven, CEO, like sets this thing up and it runs and it does all the cool stuff and they post it on social media. But they look at that and be like, I'm not comfortable with that level of kind of risk and not having the control. I'm not sure I'll know how to really actually set one up.
- [24:46]
Austin Hankwitz
Give it my password.
- [24:47]
Yannick Malling
I've never done a command line in terminal before. Like what about the security stuff? And so AI agents on public are built for them. Right. Because it runs within the same environment from a security standpoint that your entire brokerage accounts runs on.
- [25:04]
Austin Hankwitz
Right.
- [25:04]
Yannick Malling
And you know, not going to knock on the wood here, but, but public, I think we have a stellar security rail. We've never been hacked. We've never had any of these things that you've seen other companies step into where their leaked passwords are, this, that and the other. And so I think that gives people a lot of comfort that like, okay, I would like to benefit from using these AI agents to run a more sophisticated investment strategy, a more disciplined one, whatever the case may be. But I, I don't want to deal with all the security stuff, I don't want to deal with setting it up, et cetera. That's exactly who these folks are designed for. So it's the same bank level security that you have kind of protecting all your assets. On topic already.
- [25:43]
Austin Hankwitz
Let's now talk about the person who turned it on. And they pour their cup of coffee in the morning and they to your point, look at all the things that happened and they're like, whoa, I didn't know, I don't want that to. So I mean you're essentially like giving the keys to your broker to something. Right? It's like you're now in the passenger seat.
- [26:02]
Yannick Malling
So where, how did you guys build
- [26:04]
Austin Hankwitz
it so people still kind of feel like they're driving the car.
- [26:06]
Yannick Malling
That's an excellent question. And this gets really to the heart of probably the single most important design decision that we made, which is to say that we separated reasoning from execution and so we actually found a way to have it be that whatever you're conversing with it about, you know, you're discussing what you want to do, it ultimately proposes that workflow that's spelled out in plain English. This is exactly what I'm going to do. Like every day at Magetoban 9:30 I'm going to check the oil price and if it's Too high. I'm going to put in a little short term hedge against your portfolio. That's one I did myself because I was annoyed about my portfolio being in
- [26:50]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
the red all the time doing this oil stuff.
- [26:52]
Yannick Malling
So now I have that thing running. So once you have accept and activate on that, it runs deterministically in your account and so it is not making any independent decisions from there.
- [27:04]
Austin Hankwitz
Got it.
- [27:06]
Yannick Malling
Which is how you get to know hallucinations.
- [27:09]
Austin Hankwitz
Yes.
- [27:09]
Yannick Malling
Which has always been the key for us. And obviously in 2023 when we launched research, I can't exactly say that that's where we were. There were a lot of hallucinations. Maybe 20, 30% were hallucinations.
- [27:20]
Austin Hankwitz
Maybe you.
- [27:20]
Yannick Malling
Then it got better and better and better on the research. But we always fought once we get into actions execution, it just has to work in a structure where there are zero hallucinations for people to actually adopt this stuff. And so that's what we built.
- [27:34]
Austin Hankwitz
Maybe you can talk about real quick just to define deterministic versus probabilistic.
- [27:39]
Yannick Malling
Yeah. Basically probabilistic is if the AI were to itself think about probabilities of how you define things. Deterministic is basically like if A happens and B happens, then C will always happen.
- [27:56]
Austin Hankwitz
Yeah.
- [27:57]
Yannick Malling
You know, and so that's why with a probabilistic model you have an AI doing more of this kind of inference, as they call it, and therefore having to think more on your behalf again and again and again. And so that's why all that reasoning happens in the beginning when you're conversing with it, obviously, because that's what the intelligence is. But once you've executed a workflow, it will run in a deterministic fashion. Meaning if A happens and B happens, C will always happen.
- [28:29]
Austin Hankwitz
So you'll never be surprised, you'll never wake up and say, I didn't sign off on that. That doesn't make any sense. Why did you do that?
- [28:35]
Yannick Malling
Exactly. You'll never wake up and have it be like, oh, I know we said to buy gold if this happens, but now I decided to buy silver because I liked it a little bit better on the day. Like that is.
- [28:46]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
But.
- [28:46]
Yannick Malling
But like that could happen with like an open clothing, for example. Right.
- [28:50]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Or a broker or.
- [28:53]
Yannick Malling
Or a drunk broker.
- [28:54]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Yeah, yeah, I was just gonna mention whiskey. So.
- [28:57]
Yannick Malling
So I think like I said, that was the, the single most crucial design choice for us based on all the feedback and all the people that we kind of talk to, all the customers of, like how we basically wanted to architect this at the Root level to ensure that that can never happen.
- [29:17]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
For me, it's all about education. And I hate to keep going back to this, but I think back to when you guys were really taking the forefront for people to buy crypto, you know, four, five, six years ago, even buying cryptocurrency, people would hit me up constantly, like, I want to get into the crypto game, but how do I do it? I'm like, go to public.com. it's that simple. And I think this is the next phase of that where you're really opening the doors to make it easier and less fearful for people. So my next question is, with AI, it's starting to really impact decision making and execution. Like you guys just talked about. How do you think AI agents will change the investing experience over the next three to five years? Because it's happening so fast. And I want to know and have you click on, do you predict that these AI agents will one day even substitute investment advisors as a whole or something of a hybrid of that?
- [30:09]
Yannick Malling
It is an excellent question. And it's not the first time I'm, I'm thinking about this. I think it will go step by step. And I think this thing is not evolving linearly. It's like a staircase. Right now we're at one of those jump moments. Generated assets was one of those jump moments. And so I think research starting in 23, but really in 24 got quite good, and in 25 it got excellent. Already reduced some areas of responsibility for, you know, a broker, a wealth manager, or a financial advisor, whatever you, you sort of have. And they all have different sort of Venn diagram overlap of what they do depending on who you talk to. Now you're seeing it with actions as well. And so I think that takes another sort of chunk out of the market, you know, and it's not happening tomorrow. But like, once you've seen this thing, you cannot unsee it. And so then you already know a little bit where it's going. Now, I do think that when you take these chunks out of the market, and that will happen every time there's like a staircase leap, you're taking out from the bottom of those markets, meaning the people that you know, have the highest price and the lowest quality of financial advisors, for example, they're the ones that are going to go first. And I think generally speaking, like, the people who are the best in the world will always be able to do what they do. Like, I even think the people who are the best chauffeurs in the world will Keep being chauffeurs for the entirety of their lifetime because there's always going to be a market that feels that it's a little romantic or like the idea of somebody like opening the door for you or whatever the case may. Some of the best financial advisors in the world, they do a lot more than just financial advice. Right. They do a lot more than what touches your investing account. But I think last time I checked, there's 375,000 of them in America and they certainly do not all do that. And I think what's interesting is our generation was already what we call self directed. First meaning the first time you're interfaced with the stock market, you did it yourself. Whereas maybe for the baby boomer generation, the first time you're interfaced with the stock market was in that branch, in that meeting with that financial advisor. So that was already a big change. And I think we were already on this path of financial advisors becoming a little bit more of a dying breed. This just accelerates that. This being obviously AI agents.
- [32:47]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Well, they just don't offer enough, you know, and that's the hard part is I see all these people out there where they talk to their clients once a year. That's not active management, that's set it and forget it and go play golf
- [32:58]
Yannick Malling
or you're going to talking through your AI. Yeah, several times a day. Yeah.
- [33:02]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
And I think people as they continue to learn these tools and thank you for building them because I think as they learn these tools that confidence is going to go up and it's really just going to help them be better and they're not going to need all of that because they're going to have that AI agent right there with them all along the way and hopefully keep us around for a couple more decades as well.
- [33:20]
Yannick Malling
No, totally. I mean at the end of the day the value proposition is, is just not there. Right. Agents on public are free of charge. They don't charge.
- [33:31]
Austin Hankwitz
You talk about that a little bit free for me to go to public, do my agent. I get to get to prompt it with a goal and share it.
- [33:39]
Yannick Malling
Like the great thing is like we've already bought a pretty great business model and how we make money that we feel is very aligned with our users. As you know, we put a lot of time and effort into that and thinking about that over the years, making sure that our sensors are the most aligned with our customers. We take actually a lot of pride in that. And so we just thought like, hey, gating this behind a subscription thing isn't really the right move for us because this is something that we just very quickly could see will make everyone a better investor. And if everyone is a better investor, public will reap the benefits in the long run. And so it's a pretty simple business framework decision. This is never to say that we're not going to put up one of these like Facebook style, it's free and it always will be kind of thing. Maybe there'll be another tier at some point. We'll see where all this goes. It's still very, very early. We're the first brokerage in the world to do this. The general AI cycle is still I believe pretty early, but that's at least where we're kind of starting. And so again I think if you're free of charge, if you proactively have unlimited, you know, sort of share a mind and like power to analyze your clients portfolios all the time, which an AI does a financial as it typically would not be able to, you can ride, you can help solve your financial advisor client's problem by even like writing some code that runs on your account and automating things, et cetera. It's just way. It's just a couple order magnitudes better value proposition. And then I agree unless you really like playing golf with your financial advisor, it becomes really, really tricky to for some of them to keep staying in business the way that they do it today at least.
- [35:21]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Yeah.
- [35:21]
Austin Hankwitz
Do you think that there is a future and again who can predict the future with how fast things are moving? But does this translate outside of just portfolio management? Could this also perhaps. I mean you know, you guys are doing direct indexing, there's tax loss harvesting. Perhaps there's some sort of you know, tax planning component here. Maybe estate planning. Oh just I feel like this as the ceiling is endless.
- [35:47]
Yannick Malling
I mean I would actually inverse that question and say most people's financial lives revolves around their checking account. It should revolve around their portfolio. Like that is actually a great measure of whether you have made it or not. Right. And so even for all of your listeners, I think to have that mindset that is what ultimately starts like that's ultimately helps you start developing these rich habits basically. Right. And so yeah pun.
- [36:15]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
I like it.
- [36:16]
Yannick Malling
And so and so we, we often try to have our product team think through that lens. You know, your portfolio really should touch like, like your, your whole financial life should center out your portfolio. Now tax law harvesting. I mean I already asked it to help me free up 50 grand for withdrawal. I needed to make the Other day. But I only wanted to sell things with long term capital gains that were trading close to all time highs with a P ratio of 50. Don't touch. Nvidia Bitcoin.
- [36:47]
Austin Hankwitz
That's genius. That's so. Okay, let's just one more time go a little bit deeper here because I think like even these examples, I would have never thought about that. And I think I'm pretty good at this stuff. Right? So like, how do you envision people using these AI agents on public, how do you want people to use them? How can you encourage them to think outside the box? Literally, I would have never thought about that. But it's genius because, you know, low taxes and you're selling at all time highs, you're probably not, you know, selling for. You know, it's just. I love it.
- [37:19]
Yannick Malling
I mean, actually people sometimes ask me like, is this a product people have been asking for or is this more like a Steve Jobs as moment we're trying to come up with something nobody ever asked for. And I would say it's a little bit of both. Because if I go into our customer service chats right now, a lot of people are asking like, hey, I need to free up 20k for a down payment. What's the most tax efficient way that I do that? So in a way they're asking for it. They're just not realizing that this will be the solve. They're asking our customer service or representatives. Exactly. And we're like, well, our CX guys is like, that's not really our job. Right? Yeah. Now our CX folks will just be like, absolutely, I just spun up this agent. Just run it in your account, you're good to go. And so I think even from that perspective, it changes how you, how you service customers. I think it comes back to education. You know, this is a great example of it. We've made sure that every agent has a unique code so that you can share it with friends, which is another way that you can inspire folks. So if you send me the code, I can hit import, put in that code and that thing, I can hit activate and that thing will run in my account exactly as it did in yours. Sometimes it might ask you like, hey, this person was running it for 10 grand. You know, if you have less than that, it'll be like, I see you only have five grand. Like do you want to lower the amount and like customize it a little bit very quickly? But for all intents and purposes, these things also have the opportunity to go pretty viral. And I think that will be a big part of, you know, educating and helping people sort of get inspired. Of what? Just how much they can automate in their portfolios with agents just thinking about
- [39:01]
Austin Hankwitz
leveling the playing field. I mean, this is unbelievable. I mean, you kind of reflect upon, I would imagine, you know, hedge funds and quant funds and things like that. They've got their own algorithms, their own strategies, their own rules based things going on that print money for them. But it's, you know, it's theirs. Don't look, it's my stuff, right? It's making me money. But now some guy on X or some girl on Instagram is going to find the perfect thing for this specific situation and share it and everyone's going to see it and then start implementing it themselves.
- [39:28]
Yannick Malling
Exactly. And I think it goes back to this argument, which I figured really exciting is like, I promise you, like the people at the banks, like they're all just using CLAUDE now. They're not. I mean like this of the Bloomberg terminal. But like by and large they are losing the same 20 subscription you might be using for Claude. But Claude can't execute trades, it can't read your account balance. So it can only go so far. You need to prompt the privity heavily. Also, it can never actually be proactive in reaching out to me and being like, hey, this morning the market moved like this and this. Do you want to consider free options here? Right. Because it doesn't have access to like run your account like that. And so I think, and there might be some things I'll get there with like connectors and MCP servers and all this stuff. But at the end of the day, I think when you run a model like the one that we've designed, which also is using anthropic by the way, Right? Like under the hood, you know, the harness, which is this technical term for how you basically give it context. Context engineering. Like we've really made sure that it understands financial markets. Like it knows how to read an option chain. So that if you want to sell covered calls and you say, hey, can you help me find ways to make five grand this month selling covered calls across some of my top positions, it won't just like dump you into an options trainer. Be like, here's the Apple options chain, pick whatever you want, like actually ask you a few questions, how much risk do you want to take? And then it'll send you a couple of sort of like, okay, here are three that you could do at three different risk levels. Which one do you want? You hit the Button it spins it up and actually goes and executes it for you as well. And I think that final step is the really cool thing, because if you just use AI in isolation over here and you got to go and implement all this stuff, there's a big gap there. And that's where I think Public can quite uniquely play a role in this AI space.
- [41:13]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
I feel like all the fake gurus are going to be cooked now moving forward. Good. But the best. But the best part, really, though, for me, the biggest takeaway is that it's going to allow people to build these systems inside of Public without having to be glued to their screen while still actively managing their money, which is going to give them better returns overall with better tools. That is the number one best thing. It gives me goosebumps to even think about of what I can do with my own money, even using this new tool, but also what other people will be able to do. And being able to share that is such a cool thing that you could put something together. That's awesome. Share it with all of us. I implemented into my strategies and all of a sudden, boom, you're making that extra. And this is kind of like a side hustle built into what you're already doing. Because if someone says, hey, help me figure out how to make $3,000 more a month and it gives you these plans, I mean, it's just. It's just amazing.
- [42:09]
Yannick Malling
No, totally. And I think one of the key words for me is discipline. Right? I think that's like, as an investor, honestly, one of the hardest things to, like, you might have a plan. Like, everyone has these unstructured strategies in their minds. I call them, like, if you quiz a customer right now, most of them are like, would you always an Nvidia investor? Would you always buy Nvidia if it's down 5% intra week? Yeah, absolutely. But then maybe when it happens, they're like, oh, I don't really know. And like, yada, yada, yada. And then the next week it's back up and they're like, oh, darn. I mean, miss it. Right? And so codifying this stuff will lead to you executing your investment strategies with way greater discipline, which is what any institutional trader have been doing by writing code for the last 20 years. There's a reason they're doing that. But now you can do it too, even if you don't know how to code. Right? And I think that's. That's one of the key things. And then one of the other, I'll give you Just like this other example, because I think it's kind of cool because right now we're, we're talking a lot about like the old way and the new way of doing this. There is a little bit of a hybrid thing that I've seen as well among some customers where they create an agent with the instruction of every time I start a new position or I make a trade, just always add a 20% stop loss just like immediately after so that I never have to think about that. And then the agent would go like, okay, you know, that's fine. Do you want to be trailing stop loss? Yeah, actually that sounds like a great idea. So that it keeps following it out. Right? Do you want it to be a limit order with a little color? That sounds like a great idea. Okay, done. And so now this person is just trading the same way. They have been on public with clicks, but every time they started make a trade, there's an automatic stop loss with a trailing stop loss order added to it. And so that's a little bit of like a augmented click trader AI agent hybrid model that a lot of people are really excited about right now. And I think that that's, that's another step. Right. And so I think, yeah. Ten years from now, will we still be doing that? I don't know. But right here, now that is actually a use case that folks are quite excited about.
- [44:15]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Wow, it's just so crazy for me because thinking back to when I used to want to have to make a trade back in the day, I had to get on the phone, hey Bill, give me 35 shares of this. Blah, blah, blah. Okay, cool. What's the price? Boom, click. And you get a ticket and you get your thing. It's crazy. But Yannick, before we wrap up, what is one thing that you want all of our listeners to understand about this shift towards AI driven investing? That they might not fully appreciate the magnitude yet of what you guys have built and where this is headed. Specifically, those who are still using ChatGPT or have never used a Claude cowork or that can fully comprehend the power of an agentic AI. Let's call it the middle aged investor who still says hey Siri on their phone. Talk to that person for a second. Because a lot of our audience is in their 40s, 50s and 60s. And again it gets back to education and wanting them to feel comfortable. So talk to them about this.
- [45:09]
Yannick Malling
Yeah, I think whenever there is a massive leap in these new tools, it is like a superpower and you don't want to be In a market where some people have a superpower that you don't. Up until this point, I can fully understand people not having played with this because of all the security risks that you hear about. Every day there's a new leak from OpenClaw and this, that and the other. And so that's why we've designed public, securely, transparently, safely running your account. So you have nothing to worry about there. So I think that's number one. I think there's now no reason not to at least start trying this out. By the way, the first ones you can set up can just be monitoring markets. You don't have to dive straight into trade execution. You can just be like, hey, every morning at the market open, send me push notifications or inbox notifications to public if this or that happens or whatever the case may be. And so I think that's number one. You have to force yourself to be curious and you have to dip your toe in the water. And then I'm quite confident that once you've done that, you'll. You'll want to dive in the water. And I was going to say you'll learn how to swim, but the truth is you don't even have to because we've built this thing with all the guardrails, et cetera. So really, you're jumping in there with floaters and a life vest and everything, right?
- [46:34]
Austin Hankwitz
And a lifeguard,
- [46:37]
Yannick Malling
20 lifeguards monitoring all at once. And so I think there's no excuse not to start getting into this. And I think we will see. I said this with generated assets, too. Every investor in the world is different. They have different risk tolerance, they have different investment goals. So if you really think about it, it makes very little sense that by and large, we've all been buying the same financial product. Everyone's buying S&P 500, et cetera. By the way, I'm doing it too. But I think a big reason for that is just like it's been easy, it's been something everyone does, has created potentially some things, some issues about. Now it's very top heavy with the Max 7 and so forth. And I just think that, like, that's what we did because that was what we could easily do at the time. It was the most frictionless way to get into the market. Now there are so many ways to get into the market in a way that is more tailored to what you want out of your money. Right? If you're younger, you likely want to take a little bit more risk. You maybe want to go A little bit deeper into tech stocks.
- [47:45]
Austin Hankwitz
Right.
- [47:45]
Yannick Malling
Like, you guys talk about this all the time.
- [47:46]
Austin Hankwitz
Totally.
- [47:48]
Yannick Malling
And so you shouldn't just buy necessarily the same product as somebody who's 30, 40 years older than you. The way you think about risk tolerance, like how much money you've got stashed away, how much money you think you'll make in the future, like, all these things play a role. I think what's been difficult for people is because we've reduced the role of broker to just be trade execution. They're sort of sitting there and be like, well, my broker doesn't even know who I am. Like, they know my Social Security, but like, if I call them up right now, they have no idea who I am. And AI agents change that too, because the more you use them, the more they will learn about you and the better they will be for you over time. Which goes back to my tip number one. You gotta dip your toe in the water and you gotta start using this. Because if you start using it two years from now, you're starting a little bit behind the eight ball relative to other folks that have been using this. Not just in terms of your knowledge of how this works, but it's knowledge of what you want to achieve.
- [48:46]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
But I also think it helps them learn more about themselves. Because one of the things we talk about in the rich habits network all the time is getting people to understand their risk tolerance. Personal finances, personal. We say it a thousand times a month, but a lot of people don't know what the risk tolerance. They say, well, I just want to get rich. Well, but you have to understand where your levers are within that parameter to know how to build wealth. But do it the right way. And it can be through the s and P500 and the NASDAQ and stuff like that. But now with all these other tools, we can be better investors overall. And I think that's one of the cool parts. And I hope everyone listening gets in there and dips their toe in the water, because this is phenomenal.
- [49:26]
Yannick Malling
Absolutely. It's a little bit like knowing what you want as an investor is actually a big deal. And I. I often say, like, you know, nobody does therapy for their investing. You've seen Billions, right, The TV show. So they have Wendy. Yeah, right. Nobody has a Wendy that I know of. A retail.
- [49:41]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Well, our followers have us.
- [49:43]
Yannick Malling
Exactly. We're the.
- [49:44]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
We're the Wendy's for them. Yeah, we're the Wendy's for them. Because they'll call me on a Sunday night and be like, is There any way you could talk exactly what's going on?
- [49:51]
Yannick Malling
But I think, I think that's, that's such a key thing to like understand what you want, who you want to be as investor, like what you actually want to do, what are your goals, etc. Like yeah, everyone answers those sort of KYC questions as we call them, like moderate, aggressive, risk tolerance, whatever the case is. But, but again, I think by conversing more with an AI agent, you will also just like on a daily basis, you will start to build more of an understanding of that yourself. And so I, I totally agree with that.
- [50:16]
Austin Hankwitz
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- [50:39]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
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Austin Hankwitz
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- [51:18]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
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- [51:39]
Austin Hankwitz
Back to our interview with Yannick Mulling. How do you think that this product is going to change the trajectory of public as a company? Because I think in the beginning, you know, public was very much like social investing. And then we realized, okay, public is much more than that. Right now you guys to me are completely flipping way toward that technical, deep, quantitative, like you guys are going all in on this.
- [52:05]
Yannick Malling
Yeah. What's interesting though is that we are going all in on it because we don't see them as being two different worlds anymore. Right? Because now with a simple natural English prompt, I mean you can write this like a 12 year old and you can end up building essentially a quant strategy that runs on your account. You don't have to worry about it. It just like happens like magic Right. And so I think that's why we've leaned a little bit more in that direction because I think it's like you could see it as us going from one side of the spectrum to the other, but you can also just see it as the spectrum gets compressed, stretched out. It's now four dimensional as a little bit like one big thing. Right. And that's very much how we see it. I think we, we are now so the world's first agentic brokerage. I think that's a really, really cool, it's incredible opportunity for us to pursue. I think it's going to be quite drastic in terms of what it means for the company. We were some mix of skilled and fortunate to start this really early back in 2023. Like we've been doing this stuff for three years. We're only a six and a half year old company, so basically for half our time we've already been a company that's been developing actively in AI. And so I think when we look back at this, those first three years where we were, something else might just be a blip. Now in addition to that, I'll say what's interesting is we couldn't just build an agentic brokerage in a month kind of thing because it's a layer that sits on top of everything else that we've built. Fractional stocks, fractional treasuries and corporate bonds options, crypto, all the, all the cash management things, even things like all the risk checks and all the fraud checks and like all that stuff that you need to build a brokerage. We've had to build that first and then build this new user interface on top, which is agentic AI. And so in a way, this is the culmination of everything that I think that we sort of worked on. Even if we maybe didn't realize that back in 2019 when we launched. Right. Wow.
- [54:23]
Austin Hankwitz
Yeah, no, yeah, you're totally right. It's kind of like the, the culmination of all those things. Like I remember when T bills came out and I remember cryptocurrency and options trading, all these different things and essentially it was just tools in the AI agents tool belt to take advantage of in the future before we even knew that AI agents were going to be the future.
- [54:40]
Yannick Malling
Exactly, exactly. And we've always had these product ideas from customers, like I said, or even internally in the product team was like, oh, could we make this more dynamic? Could you do this? How cool would it be if you can do this and that? And then we were like, yeah, that sounds great. The technology isn't really there. Like, I don't know how you'd actually kind of built that in a way that people could just use it in a frictionless way and in an easy way. And so we scrapped a lot of those ideas over the years and now they've all come roaring back and it's like suddenly you have every feature in the world that you ever want, but deployed only for the customers that want them. And so as a product builder, it's been complete euphoria, I would say.
- [55:17]
Austin Hankwitz
Yannick, thank you so much for joining us today. My friend. It has been a long time coming. We cannot wait to have you back. And every time y' all do something cool at Public, I love that you think about us and you want to share it with our audience. We're so grateful for that and I hope our audience appreciates it as much as we do. Everybody, thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode of the Rich Habits podcast. Go check out these AI agents. Public.com, the first agentic brokerage in the world. Thank you, Robert. It's the next day we're back here in our own studios reflecting upon how incredible of a conversation we just had with Jannik Malling. And a major shout out to Public as well for inviting us to this episode Demo day dinner type extravaganza. Shout out life for being there as well. It was a great conversation. A lot was learned during this. And my biggest takeaway for this product, Robert, that I hope everyone understands, is that you no longer have to have a rigid strategy around your specific investing style and how you want to implement and build wealth that's personal to you. For example, it was funny, I was talking with Steven Sykes, their chief operating officer, and he was telling me that he built a dividend reinvestment plan for the dividends he receives in his portfolio. And for example, he's like, yeah, my Apple dividends, what I did was with my agentic brokerage, now half of my Apple dividends get reinvested back into Apple, but the other half get like proportionally invested into specific mag7 names. Only if they're trading below their specific price to earnings ratios. Like, it is some unbelievable stuff you can do now inside of Public with these AI agents. And I'm. I've never been more excited to one, play with it myself and really get my hands on it. But also two, to see what all of you can come up with. There will be strategies that you listening right now will come up with in your public account, I'm sure of it, that will outperform and will do all these things. And if you do come up with it, you better share it with me because I want to use too.
- [57:20]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
Right.
- [57:20]
Austin Hankwitz
I just can't wait to see. Because all of this software and automation and like audit, like all this stuff has been around for hedge funds in institutions for decades, but it's never been given to the retail investor. It's never been this sophisticated for us. And I could not be more proud to be partners with public and to be supporting them in this endeavor.
- [57:43]
Co-host (possibly Steven Sykes or another Rich Habits team member)
I will say that that was the takeaway for me is as much as I learned in the last 48 hours. I just feel this is the tool that levels the playing field. The rich people with their Bloomberg terminals and their big fancy software always had an edge on the everyday person. And that ends Tuesday, March 31st. Because this tool, if people put the work into it and really play around and test things because they can have multiple agents, they don't have to do any software coding, they don't have to do anything. They just go in, it's free, which is crazy to me. With your public account, it is going to change the confidence in the way people think about investing forever. And I just can't wait for Tuesday to dig in and really start playing with it. So public.com Tuesday, March 31, please, please watch the episode. Take what you learned from the episode and go there and play around. I promise it's game changing and you're gonna love it.
- [58:41]
Austin Hankwitz
Everybody. Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode of the Rich Habits Radar, a Friday episode of the Rich Habits podcast where every Friday we talk about the biggest headlines. Impacting you and your money is absolutely going to impact you and your money. We will see you on Monday.