Q&A: Delaware Statutory Trusts, Stop-Loss Orders, & VOOG

Summary

Rich Habits Podcast Summary: Episode "Q&A: Delaware Statutory Trusts, Stop-Loss Orders, & VOOG"

Release Date: December 26, 2024
Hosts: Austin Hankwitz and Robert Croak

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Introduction

In this special Q&A edition of the Rich Habits Podcast, hosts Austin Hankwitz and Robert Croak delve into a variety of listener questions ranging from real estate investment strategies to stock market tactics. This episode, released just after the holiday season, offers valuable insights into financial literacy, tailored to help listeners take control of their financial futures by implementing effective habits.

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1. Understanding Delaware Statutory Trusts (DSTs) and 1031 Exchanges

Listener Question by Jeff C.:
Jeff is contemplating selling his rental property and utilizing a 1031 exchange to invest in a Delaware Statutory Trust (DST) to generate passive income. He’s concerned about his current low cap rate and seeks advice on whether to proceed with the DST or take a tax hit for greater liquidity.

Hosts' Discussion:

• Austin Hankwitz starts by explaining DSTs as legal entities under Delaware law that hold title to properties, primarily used for 1031 exchanges to defer capital gains taxes. He emphasizes the complexity and illiquidity associated with DSTs.

  "DSTs are super illiquid and involve high fees, making them a less favorable option compared to finding your next deal or paying taxes and investing accordingly." ([00:38])

• Robert Croak expands on the drawbacks, highlighting the significant fees ranging from 7% to 15% and the lack of control over investments within the DST. He advises against using DSTs due to these high costs and restricted liquidity.

  "High fees, illiquid, and no control over your investment—it's just not worth it." ([04:14])

• Conclusion: Both hosts recommend considering traditional investment avenues over DSTs, especially given the high costs and inflexible nature of DSTs.

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2. Buying vs. Renting During a Temporary Stay

Listener Question by Chris:
Chris and his fiancée are considering whether to buy a home near her medical school program or continue renting, given that they plan to move to another state afterward. He also inquires about using funds from a taxable brokerage account for the down payment.

Hosts' Discussion:

• Robert Croak advises renting due to the short-term nature of their stay, current high home prices, and substantial mortgage rates. He questions the financial sense of buying a property they won't hold long enough to appreciate significantly.

  "I think you should rent because buying a home right now is extremely expensive and may not make sense for just a few years of ownership." ([07:38])

• Austin Hankwitz concurs, pointing out the benefits of maintaining liquidity and avoiding the unpredictable costs associated with homeownership, such as maintenance and repairs. He emphasizes that renting allows for continued investment and financial growth.

  "Renting is not throwing money away. It allows you to have more cash flow and continue investing, setting yourselves up for multimillionaire status." ([08:55])

• Conclusion: The hosts collectively recommend renting in Chris’s situation to preserve financial flexibility and avoid the hefty costs associated with short-term homeownership.

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3. The Role of Stop-Loss Orders in Investing

Listener Question by Josh W.:
Josh inquires about the use of stop-loss orders in their investing strategy, seeking the hosts' personal rules and opinions on their effectiveness in managing investments.

Hosts' Discussion:

• Austin Hankwitz explains stop-loss orders as tools primarily for traders rather than long-term investors. He stresses a long-term investment mentality, suggesting that holding stocks based on conviction is generally more beneficial.

  "I encourage having a long-term investment mentality. Stop-loss orders can prematurely exit your position, potentially missing out on future gains." ([11:05])

• Robert Croak echoes this sentiment, sharing his personal shift from active trading with stop-loss orders to a more long-term investment approach. He warns about the downside of stop-loss orders triggering during short-term volatility, which can lead to missing out on rebounds.

  "Stop-loss orders can make you sell during a downturn, and then you have to re-enter the position, potentially missing out on the recovery." ([14:22])

• Conclusion: Both hosts advocate for a long-term investment strategy over using stop-loss orders, emphasizing that conviction in your investments outweighs the short-term protection that stop-loss orders might offer.

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4. Portfolio Diversification and Reducing Individual Stock Holdings at Age 50

Listener Question by Jason L.:
At 50 years old, Jason and his wife hold a significant portion of their retirement accounts in individual stocks. They seek advice on whether to diversify into index funds and ETFs to mitigate risk.

Hosts' Discussion:

• Robert Croak recommends reducing the number of individual stocks to enhance diversification. He suggests maintaining a portfolio of 10-15 well-chosen stocks and reallocating funds into diversified index funds to cover all bases without being overly exposed to too many individual equities.

  "You probably should sell off some of those underperforming stocks and diversify into index funds to reduce risk." ([16:36])

• Austin Hankwitz supports this approach, advising a 75% allocation to ETFs and 25% to individual stocks in retirement accounts. He highlights the benefits of broad market exposure to protect against volatility and reduce the impact of any single stock's performance.

  "A 75 to 25 split into ETFs and single stocks ensures diversification and protects against downside risk." ([17:36])

• Conclusion: The hosts strongly advocate for diversifying retirement portfolios by reducing the concentration in individual stocks and increasing allocations to index funds and ETFs to balance growth potential with risk management.

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5. Inspiring Financial Wisdom from a 13-Year-Old Investor

Listener Story by Danielle M.:
Danielle, a 13-year-old from Maui, shares her experience with investing through a custodial brokerage account funded by her grandparents. She discusses her strategy of investing in companies she understands and believes in, such as Tesla and Apple.

Hosts' Discussion:

• Robert Croak praises Danielle’s approach of investing in companies she knows and understands, emphasizing the importance of conviction and knowledge in stock selection.

  "Buying what you know and understanding your investments is crucial for long-term success." ([28:33])

• Austin Hankwitz encourages Danielle to further educate herself by exploring the investor relations websites of her chosen companies to gain deeper insights into their operations and financials.

  "Explore each company's investor relations website to understand their financials and growth strategies." ([29:19])

• Conclusion: The hosts commend Danielle’s proactive investment strategy and encourage her to continue building her financial literacy by researching her investments thoroughly.

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6. Exploring Tax Lien Investing for Portfolio Diversification

Listener Question by Sasha V.:
Sasha is interested in incorporating tax lien investing into his diversified portfolio and seeks the hosts' opinions on its pros and cons.

Hosts' Discussion:

• Robert Croak explains tax lien investing as purchasing the tax lien on a property, thereby earning interest or potentially acquiring the property if the owner defaults. He highlights the risks, including prolonged legal processes and the possibility of the property not being reclaimed.

  "Tax lien investing is risky and requires thorough understanding of local laws. It’s not as straightforward as it seems." ([30:51])

• Austin Hankwitz outlines the process and cautions against its complexity and the effort required to manage such investments. He suggests alternative investments like REITs for those seeking real estate exposure without the associated risks.

  "I wouldn’t personally invest in tax liens. Alternatives like REITs offer real estate exposure with less risk and complexity." ([34:01])

• Conclusion: The hosts advise caution when considering tax lien investing, recommending thorough research and understanding of the associated risks. They suggest more straightforward real estate investment options like foreclosure and land bank sales as preferable alternatives.

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Conclusion

As the hosts wrap up the episode, Austin and Robert reflect on the holiday season and express their excitement for the upcoming year. They emphasize their commitment to providing valuable financial insights and encouraging their listeners to continue cultivating rich financial habits.

"We're excited for the new year and bringing you guys just a ton of value. Stay tuned and we'll see you then." ([35:55])

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Key Takeaways

• Delaware Statutory Trusts (DSTs): Often come with high fees and illiquidity, making them less favorable for certain investors.

• Renting vs. Buying: For short-term stays, especially under a few years, renting is typically more financially sound than purchasing property.

• Stop-Loss Orders: Better suited for traders rather than long-term investors who believe in the sustained growth of their investments.

• Portfolio Diversification: Reducing concentration in individual stocks and increasing exposure to index funds and ETFs can mitigate risks, especially as one approaches retirement age.

• Youth Investing: Encouraging young investors to buy stocks they understand and to deepen their financial literacy through company research.

• Tax Lien Investing: While it can offer high returns, it is complex and risky. Alternatives like foreclosure and land bank sales may be more manageable and less risky.

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This summary captures the essence of the Rich Habits Podcast episode, providing listeners and non-listeners alike with comprehensive insights into the discussions and advice shared by hosts Austin Hankwitz and Robert Croak.

Transcript

[Austin]

Hey everyone and welcome back to the Rich Habits podcast, a top 10 business podcast on Spotify. We hope that you all had a very merry Christmas, a very happy Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, whatever you and your family and your loved ones celebrate. We hope it was wonderful. Happy holidays all around. We're thrilled that you came back to listen to this episode of the podcast. And of course this is our Question and Answer edition, which means that you all submit Questions via Instagram dms@rich habits Podcast. You email us your questions at rich habits podcastmail.com or you ask your questions ins the Rich Habits Network, which Robert we recently surpassed 500 members inside of the Rich Habits Network, which is a huge accomplishment if you ask me.

[Robert]

Yeah, I am definitely excited for 2025 and this episode and just feeling jolly about the holidays. So I am definitely excited for the end of the year, everything that's happening in the markets and just ready to start cranking out some really good episodes in 2025. But a quick heads up folks. Interest rates are falling, but you can still lock in 6% or higher yield with a bond [e-mail] that's a pretty big deal because when rates drop, so can the interest you earn on your investment.

[Austin]

Now remember, a bond account allows you to lock in a 6% or higher yield with a diversified portfolio of high yield and investment grade corporate bonds. So while other people are watching their returns shrink in their high yield savings accounts, you can sit back with regular interest payments with a bond account on.

[Robert]

Public.Com but you might want to act fast because your yield is not locked in until you actually invest. The good news? It only takes a couple of minutes to sign up at public.com lock in a 6% or higher yield with a bond account only at public.com forward/rich habits.

[Austin]

Brought to you by Public Investing member FINRA and SIPC. As of December 26, 2024, the average annualized yield to worst across the bond account is greater than 6%. Yield to worst is not guaranteed. This is not an investment recommendation. All investing involves risk. Visit public.comdisclosures bond account for more information. Now our first question of the episode comes from Jeff C. Jeff says. Hey Austin and Robert, I have a question about DSTS. I'm considering selling my rental property and completing a 1031 exchange into a Delaware Statutory Trust or a DST to generate passive income due to a life event. My cap rate dropped to just over 2% and I'm currently netting around 1580amonth after expenses. The sale should result in around $800,000 of pre tax money. What are your thoughts on this? Should I do the 1031 exchange to a DST or am I better to take the tax hit and invest the money accordingly to provide myself more liquidity as a DST would time my money up for a while. Also, I was looking into K Properties and investments to do this. Have you ever heard of them? Thank you so much, Jeff. I'll kick this one off. Robert, personally, I'm not familiar with dsts, so I had to do a little bit of research here. I know Robert knows a little bit more about them than I do, but essentially a DST is a Delaware statutory trust. It's a legal entity create, created under Delaware law, designed to hold title to a property or asset for the benefit of its investors or beneficiaries. It provides a flexible framework for trust creation and operation. One of the most common applications to your point, Jeff, is in real estate investment. Specifically for these 1031 exchanges, investors can use the DST to defer capital gains taxes by exchanging into real estate held within that trust. So in Jeff's instance, he has this house. It's not cash flowing the way he wants to. It's worth $800,000. He' sells it, and instead of paying taxes on that 800,000, he 1031 exchanges that money into this DST, which is a trust essentially all about real estate. Now, setting up and managing a DST can be really complex. It involves a lot of detailed legal and tax consideration work here. But also on top of that, which is also kind of a con here, and Jeff already alluded to it, they're not very liquid investments. Right. So your money is tied up for a while now. They could be structured more flexibly, but I think at the end of the day, it's not something that I would do. I would rather find my next deal or pay my taxes and invest it accordingly. But, Robert, maybe you can talk a little bit more about what a DST is in this instance. Maybe some pros, cons, maybe even the fees, things like that.

[Robert]

Yeah, for sure. And just to be clear, this sounds really official Delaware statutory Trust, but this is not the State of Delaware. This is an individual company run by normal people every single day. So even though it sounds super official and cool, we still have to look at all of the aspects of is this a good investment or is it bad to use this particular dst? And in my opinion, you just have to look at the facts. This DST is super illiquid. And you don't have any real control over the investments within the dst. So that is super important in this aspect of do you want your money being illiquid and held for a very, very long time? Secondarily, the fees are outrageous. The amount of money they pull out in fees in these real estate investments is really high. I did some looking myself because I've never done one in Delaware and it was 7 to 15% of the total investment for sponsor fees and commissions alone were 6 to 9%, averaging over 17% above normal fees. Because remember, you still have closing costs and everything else related to this and you know, inspections, all of the other fees related. So in my opinion this is a bad idea. I wouldn't use it. I would rather see you hire a management company or work with a lawyer that's going to charge you a lot less money to help you figure out what to do here or simply do a traditional 1031 exchange. So that's what I would do. Because remember to do that 1031 exchange you do have some time between selling the original property and purchasing the new one. So that's the takeaway. High fees, illiquid. And you don't have any control over your investment. So just be careful.

[Austin]

I love that answer. Robert, I'm right there with you. The fees, the illiquidity, the complexity. I mean, sure, maybe if you want to do some crazy stuff, this could work for you. I'm sure this works in very specific situations for very specific people. But if it were me, I would much rather pay my taxes, my long term capital gains taxes here in this instance. Invest the money accordingly in the markets or in my next deal or whatever I can figure out here, but I don't think I do the DST Now. Our next question comes from Chris. Chris says hi Austin and Robert. My name's Chris and I want to thank you both for the fantastic podcast and newsletter. I never miss an episode. My fiance was recently accepted into medical school and we're considering buying a home where she's in that four year MD program. However, we will most likely move to another state afterward for her residency. So I'm torn between buying a home and living there for four years or just renting. If we buy, we'll either sell the home when we have to move out of state or keep it as a rental after we move. Housing in the area is generally affordable and I'm leaning toward a turnkey single family home rather than a duplex or a multi family. Most of the duplexes in the area are fixer uppers and I'm just not looking to do that for my first property. So here's my question. Would you suggest buying or renting in this situation? And what factors should we consider? And if we do buy the house, do we keep it as a rental after we move again, we'll be moving to another state. So we'd be those like out of state landlords. And then my final question for this whole thing is, can I use the money in my taxable brokerage account as part of the down payment for context? I'm 26. I have 100,000 in my Roth IRA, 43,000 in a taxable brokerage account, 30,000 in collectibles, 23,000 in my high yield savings, 12k in crypto, 4,000 in a high yield savings account, and we'll probably have another 10 to 15,000 in cash by the time I purchased. So what do you guys think? Do we buy or do we rent? Robert, I'll let you answer this one.

[Robert]

I love this question. Great job getting yourself in a really, really good financial situation. And my first take on this is I think you should rent because at the end of the day, buying a home right now is extremely expensive. Home prices are at all time highs. Mortgage rates, although coming down a little bit, are still pretty high. And I just don't know, especially if it's only going to be for two, three, four years, if it makes sense to go through all of that, drain a lot of your savings, assuming you put 20% down and do all of that just for a term, unless it's an area that has really high growth and high capital appreciation in that instance where you could buy now and in four years maybe be up 30 or 40% on the home, then that is different. But in a traditional sense, if the area you said is affordable has a 3, 4, 5% capital appreciation year over year, I don't know that it's worth going through all of that to buy the home. Having to go through the closing, the inspections and all the work to get that turnkey home when you could just go rent, be done in a weekend and be moved in. But it's all up to your individual situation and what you think is best. But from a financial perspective, I think it's better to rent over buying unless it meets the criteria that I laid out.

[Austin]

I'm right there with you, Robert. Renting is the answer here. And there's a couple of reasons why, in my opinion. First, if you're not going to plan to live in the house for at least five years, it's really hard after closing costs, the unpredictability of the markets, interest rates, and, you know, things that go wrong when owning a house. We all know about my dishwasher story, right? There are all these. These things that cost thousands of dollars that go wrong with homeownership that you can completely avoid by renting. So if you're not going to live there for at least five years, I think it's a bad idea. So that's point number one. Point number two is you've done a wonderful job investing your money. At 26 years old, you've got about 150, $160,000 here invested, which is wonderful. And to go and put money down on a house, either one, you would do an FHA, three and a half percent down on a call it $300,000 house. So let's call it 10 to 15,000, all in cost. But. But now you're borrowing 300, $350,000, which is at these rates, Robert, call it 3200. $3,500 a month of a mortgage. That's tough. That's a lot of money. When the two of y'all could go rent something for 15 to 2200 bucks, I'm sure, depending on where you live, maybe around campus, something more, you know, localized. So in my opinion, one, you're not going to live there for long enough for it to make sense. Two, the actual monthly payment is going to be a lot more expensive than renting. And then also, three, I would love to see you all knowing that you guys are going to move here and jump around and, like, you know, I'd love to see your fiance get her md, do the residency, and then say, okay, where do I want to actually, you know, plant roots as a doctor, that's where you buy, right? That's where you want to buy. Now, of course, all this can change if interest rates go to 2% tomorrow. My argument gets thrown out the window, but I don't think that's going to happen in this instance. Chris, if I were you, I would rent. Renting in this situation is not throwing money away. I don't want you to think about it like that at all. And it will allow you to, one, have more cash flow against your monthly expenses, allowing you now to have that 15 to 25% to continue investing, continually. Max out this Roth IRA, get more money in the brokerage account. I mean, you're doing so well at such a young age. You guys are going to set yourselves up for multimillionaire status. Very, very quickly. But I think some of that could get a little more turbulent if you threw in a single family home in the mix.

[Robert]

I couldn't agree more. And, you know, it just lends to simplicity. You've got a lot to focus on right now as you grow your family and get through medical school and all of that. And I just think the rental is going to be better off financially and long term for your peace of mind.

[Austin]

So our next question comes from Josh W. Josh says first off, the Rich Habits podcast is amazing. I listen to it every week and it makes my work commute very enjoyable. Following your advice has changed me and my wife's investing and wealth building journeys. We just got married and she hasn't done any previous investing or saving for retirement. And now we're both on track to retire. Multi, multi millionaires. Let's go. Josh and Josh's wife.

[Robert]

Love that.

[Austin]

So in a recent episode, you all mentioned stop loss orders. What do y'all do when it comes to your stop loss orders? Are you using these? When you invest in single stocks and etf, what are the rules that you personally follow for stop loss orders? I'll take this one, Robert. So essentially, a stop loss order is a way for you to be more of a trader than an investor. Here's what I mean. Let's say that you went out and you bought shares of Tesla stock at $400 a share. If you're like me, you're a Tesla investor because you believe in their humanoid robots. You believe in the robotaxis, you believe in everything they're doing with AI. You believe in the company for a very long time. And because I have that deep rooted belief in what this company is building and how profitable it will be in the future, I don't really care too much about what the stock price is doing on a daily, weekly, or sometimes even monthly basis. Sure, I'll check in on it and make sure, like, my investment thesis isn't going out the window. Right. Elon's not doing something crazy here, but I don't really care where the stock's trading at in the short term because I know over a long period of time, I know where we're headed. A stop loss order essentially is a sell order that you have turned on at all times on your stock that says, I bought it at 400 and if Tesla stock trades at, let's call it $380 a share, so it trades down 20 bucks a share, I want to sell all my stock immediately. Get me out of it. So, like that's what that order is. It's a way for people to make sure that they cap their down loss, assuming they have like a short term trade ideology here. Now again, this could be helpful if you are a trader and you're trying to make sure that you don't lose money on a trade or whatever it is. But it's not something I do personally and I don't think it's something Robert does often personally anymore. Is it helpful? Of course it could be helpful if you're someone who again is very much swing trading or maybe you're, you want to make sure that you don't lose money on a trade. Like there's ways that you can do that with stop loss orders. But I really want to encourage you, Josh and everyone else listening to have a long term investment mentality as it relates to buying single stocks and ETFs, especially when you're thinking about buying a single stock. Right. The whole reason you bought that stock is because you have a deep conviction in what that company is doing and how that company will trend over the next. Robert, I'm not buying a stock unless I'm holding it for at least 18 to 36 months. Right. That's one and a half to three years. Right. I know that in three years from now Tesla will be doing a lot better than they are at the moment. So that's the type of mentality I want people to have when they buy these stocks. And having that stop loss order, sure it guarantees you not to lose more than X amount of money in a short period of time. But at the end of the day too, Robert, you only lose money if you sell.

[Robert]

Yeah, I can't add too much to it other than this. And that is stop loss orders are great to use. I used to use em every single day in all of my trades back when I was day trading and swing trading. But when you're doing long term investing, you also have to look at the downside of a stop loss order. Because let's say you set a stop loss order on Tesla and it has a bad day and it triggers that stop loss and you sell and like we see all the time, then the market recovers and it goes right back up a couple days later. Well, guess what, you have to form a new position because you're out of that position. So you have to look at the downside of the stop loss order as well when you're trading these volatile stocks like a Tesla or a Nvidia or even Palantir. So just keep that in mind. Austin, I think you covered it well. I don't use them anymore because I am a long term trader and I'm really not swing trading or day trading any longer. Longer.

[Austin]

Our next question comes from Jason L. Jason says I'm turning 50 this year and my wife just turned 50 as well. We have $1.2 million in our two rollover IRA accounts invested mostly in funds of a bunch of individual stocks. We do have 400,000 in the S P500, another 150,000 in things like Voo and QQQ. But the remaining money is spread across Blackrock, Nvidia, Morgan Stanley and Microsoft, just to name a few. Actually, I have too many to list. About $30,000 is in my current 401k. We're both contributing 6% to get the match and 9% of our checks go into a bridge account. We recently just changed this to your podcast and we now have even more control and we feel great about it. I have 32, 000 in another Roth that's been maxed out with all Apple Stock. It has 25000 of Apple stock in it, a little bit of Disney and a little bit of the nasdaq, but my lifetime returns of over four years on Apple are doing pretty great. We have our emergency fund of four months which is 20, 000 in cash and then 10, 000 in a high yield CD. We just reduced this due to your podcast of making our money work for us. We're currently in the process of downsizing, possibly selling our house. We can talk more about that as well, Robert, but his main question is at my age, should I sell all these individual stocks in my rollovers and put them more into index funds and ETFs to reduce my risk? You want to start this one off?

[Robert]

Jason, I love the situation you've created. You've done a really, really good job for 50 years old. So congrats on that for you and your family. In my opinion, I think you're doing really, really well. But maybe you should have less stocks. Like you said, you have many, many, many of them. So we don't know what that means. It could be 30 or 40. So many people get tied up in this situation where they're chasing money with too many stocks. I think you can have a really well rounded portfolio with 10 to 15 stocks and really cover all your bases. So without knowing what many, many means, I would say you probably should sell off some of those underperforming stocks. Keep the good ones that we like. The Amazons and the Broadcoms and the Teslas and all the ones that we know and love and get rid of some of those to bring it in a little bit and wind it in. And that's what I would do in this instance. So then that way you have more diversification potentially, but you're not spread so thin across too many crazy stocks.

[Austin]

I like that answer a lot, Robert. I think Jason here, if I did my math right, has about 50% of his two rollover accounts invested into single stocks. So $600,000, I think that is a little too much in my own solo 401k retirement account, where I am a little bit more aggressive with single stocks. It's about a 75, 25 split, 75% into ETFs, 25% into single stocks here. And so, you know, again, you're 50 years old, you've got another 20, 30 years of investing ahead of you. I think it's fine if you want to dabble in the dark arts of single stock investing, as I like to call it. The reason I say that is because some names do obviously go down, and I'm sure you realize that over your 50 years. But you know, if I were you, I would probably move out of maybe half of this $600,000 that you have in single stocks in these accounts and put them into things like VTI or moat, maybe eug, if you still want to have some aggression there, or maybe just the Dow Jones. I mean, there's a lot of different places that you can park this money that will still allow you to earn that 8, 10, 12% per year that you're probably used to with names like BlackRock, Nvidia and Microsoft without having so much. And the reason why I say it's a way for you to, you know, diversify and really protect your downside risk here is and I'm not saying we're going to go into a bear market, and I'm not saying we're going to a recession and stuff like that, but when we have increased volatility, when the s and P500 or the NASDAQ or the Dow Jones goes up, down, left and right. Remember, these are a basket of a bunch of different stocks. Those individual stocks inside of those indices move a lot more to the upside and a lot more to the downside during the same period of time. For example, you mentioned you have BlackRock stock. BlackRock during the 2022 bear market went down by 45%. Right. Compare that to the S P is 25% Nvidia, it was a very similar situation. Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, very similar situations there. Right. So they move up and they move down much more aggressively than the indexes. So I just want to make sure that you understand that. So back to my original point. 75 to 25 split there, I think is a great idea. Now the second part of question that we alluded to there was the downsizing of the home. He says that we owe 57,000 on a house at a mortgage rate of 2.25%. We would sell it for 600,000, leaving us about 525,000 of cash after the sale. He also says if they sell the house, they plan to rent locally for a year before taking the proceeds to purchase another house in the South. They live in the Northeast right now. So his, his question is, what should he take that money and park it in over the next 12 months? Well, I say High Yield Savings Account. I mean, I can't predict what the stock market's going to do in nine to 12 months. So get that four and a half, 5%, whatever you can there. CSHI is a great ETF that will allow you to do that. But Robert, what do you think about selling this house at 2%?

[Robert]

Yeah, it's tough. I'd really have to understand the market dynamics. What's the capital appreciation in that area? You obviously have a lot of equity. Could it be a really profitable long term rental? Where to put the money for a short term, if you sell it? That's tricky. I like your idea of, you know, putting it in a high Yield Savings account. So it's making that four, four and a half percent. But it's just a great situation to be in and I don't think there's a wrong answer here. It just really comes to your risk tolerance because like Austin said, it's really difficult to time any market and I would hate for you to take that money out, dump it into the S&P 500 with Voorhees, and you happen to have eight, 10 months of down market and then all of a sudden you've gone backwards. So I like protecting it for such a short period of time. If it's only going to be a year, if it turns into two, three, four years, then I definitely think you need to get it in the markets, get it into some of these funds we talk about like vooqq, maybe you get it into SPYI or QQQI to earn some income on it. But I like where Austin's at with the High Yield Savings. Okay, so Listen up folks. Time could be running out to lock in a 6% or higher yield. At public.com you can lock in a 6% or higher yield with a bond account. But remember, your yield isn't locked in until the time of purchase, so you might want to act fast. Lock in a 6% or higher yield with a diversified portfolio of high yield and investment grade corporate bonds. Only at public.com forward/rich habits so our.

[Austin]

Next question comes from Wesley H. Wesley says hey guys, I've been listening to the show and I've picked up some helpful information. I have a personal IRA through Vanguard that I rolled over to a 401k from a previous employer. However, I had about 112,000 of it sitting in a target date fund for 10 years. After seeing a whopping 7% total gain during that 10 year time, I'm ready to now spread this into Voo, VGT, QQQ, AIQ and many more ETFs who I'll recommend. My question is this over of a period of time? Should I dollar cost average into these ETFs? I don't want the money sitting for too long because I've only made 7%, but I also respect the idea of averaging out the buy in. Also, what's your take on V OG Large Cap Growth fund? It has some serious gains. You guys should check it out. I appreciate that Wes. Thank you so much for your question. Yeah, sorry to hear man. 7% over 10 years. Oh my God. That is one of the worst performances I've heard from a Target Date fund. I don't know what they had you in. I think probably what happened here, Robert, was they had him in a lot of bonds and the value of those bonds collapsed in 2000. I think it was 22 because the Fed was raising interest rates so quickly there in 22 and 23. So I just. My goodness, I'm sorry to hear this Wes. I really am. But I'm glad you're taking action. Glad you're wanting to put this a hundred grand to work in some ETFs that we recommend. And I love the idea of dollar cost averaging. If I were you, I would do about a three or four month average out. So call it $25,000 a month. And the reason I say that is because on December 12th Robert and I alluded to this in the newsletter which was that, you know, the markets are frothy right now. We're at a same valuation as to where we were in 2021 before we had that pullback right that Covid stimulus bubble we had in 2020 and 2021 and our price to book ratio is very much close to where it was during the dot com bubble in 2000. So I'm not saying that the markets are in a bubble. I don't think we are. I think there's a lot to look forward to with the DE under the Trump administration. There's so many different things as it relates to reshoring manufacturing and all this stuff that's going to help us grow as a country and grow our gdp, which is bullish for stocks. AI is one of those things. Lower interest rates. I mean there's a lot of like things culminating together that make sense for this market dynamic. But on the same token we could very well be, you know, overbought and there's definitely an opportunity to perhaps buy a 5 or 10 or 15% dip in the markets in the next, call it three to six months. Is that going to happen? I don't know. Not a fortune teller, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did see some volatility in Q1 or Q2 of next year. So giving yourself Wesley, the opportunity to dollar cost average throughout that dip if it does happen, is probably a really good idea.

[Robert]

I love this take from you Austin, and I think it's really, really good advice. The only thing I would add to it personally for the $112,000 I would immediately go maybe to public.com put it in a high Yield savings account and then distribute your money each month from there because then you're already outperforming the target date fund at four, four and a half percent while you distribute it and dollar cost average over that three, four, five, six months and then I really think that is the best playbook for you on this money because then you're not trying to time the market with such a large amount especially because the markets are frothy as Austin alluded to it. So I get the High Yield Savings Account account, get it in there, distribute it over 3, 4, 5, 6 months and it'll be perfect for you because you're not trying to time it with one lump sum payment.

[Austin]

Now to answer your question on V. OG I like this etf. It's what I used to have in my portfolio a while ago. It's called the Vanguard S P500 Growth Index Fund ETF. They are up like crazy. It's a big tech ETF 51 waiting into tech stock stocks largest holdings are Apple, Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, Google, Broadcom, Tesla, I mean every big tech stock that you can imagine. It makes sense that V O O G has done well, incredibly well over the last 10 years as AI has really led the charge here since. Call it October of 22, it's a great ETF. Now the real question is, will this momentum continue into 25 and 26? I would argue probably yes. I'm just not too sure on the timing right, which is why dollar cost averaging is a great idea. If you want to add it to that of ETFs that you want a dollar cost average into over the next three to six months. I think it's a wonderful idea. But at current prices right now it's hard for me to say like yes, no, buy, sell. But I love the idea that it's investing in these big, you know, Mag 7 stocks, these big companies who are using AI to their advantage and we'll certainly see more upside as AI continues to take over the world.

[Robert]

I couldn't agree more.

[Austin]

Now our next question comes from Danielle M. Danielle sent us this email atrich habits podcastmail.com and it warmed our hearts, so we thought we would share it with you guys. Despite it not exactly doing too much of a question, Danielle said. I'm 13 years old, I'm in the 8th grade, I live on Maui, and my mom plays your podcast in the car all the time. You're obviously experts in investing and I'm seeking your advice. In 2019, my grandparents generously decided to give their grandchildren money for their birthdays and Christmas. And rather than giving us traditional presents, we have to open a custodial brokerage account and invest the money they give us into single stocks, not mutual funds. I've learned that not all stocks I choose are going to make me money, and it's okay to sell a stock and try something else. I've also learned to hold on to a stock that I really like, even if it's not having a great year. For example, my Tesla stock did great at first, then it went down and my grandpa suggested I might consider selling. But I held onto it because I love Tesla cars and I believe in the company for the long term. And now the stock is doing much better. So the stocks I own are Tesla, Nvidia, Costco, Apple, Energy Transfer, Visa, and Palantir. I own all these stocks with Costco, for example, because I know them with Costco. I know that Maui has the highest grossing Costco in the nation and we shop there all the time. I own Apple because I love my iPhone, my iPad, and my MacBook. I own Visa because I know people use them and they swipe their Visa cards to buy stuff. I own Palantir because I think AI is the future and again, Tesla because I love the car company. My goal one day is to buy a ranch on Maui and have lots of horses. P.S. my mom wanted me to tell you that she takes notes and she takes action. Robert, what a cool email we got here from Danielle. Mike them out of Maui. It just, it's so cool to see that like people that listen to our podcasts are not just listening but they're letting their children listen and their children, I mean, how smart of a 13 year old kid to know this stuff, dude.

[Robert]

Well, I love it and the biggest takeaway for me and I think our audience on this email is buying the stocks that you love if you know the company. I did a TikTok a couple years ago about, you know, every time you're going to go buy the Nikes, go buy the Nike stock. Every time you're going to go buy Starbucks, if you love Starbucks, go buy the stock. And not necessarily does it mean every stock is going to be a winner, but buying what you know and buying what you understand is certainly better than buying something because someone down the street said to do so. So I love the simplicity of this illustration of sharing why Danielle owns all of these stocks. So I just think it's an incredibly thought out and just amazing email for a 13 year old. So I'm very excited we covered it.

[Austin]

I am as well. And Danielle, the only piece of advice I could give you, I want you for homework to do this, I want you to type in Google, Tesla and then the two words investor relations after it that will pop up the Tesla investor relations website and inside of there you can see their shareholder letter, their presentations, their financials, everything about the companies that you're invested into. Do it with Costco, do it with Apple, do it with Visa and Palantir. Palantir has some really good presentations. I'd actually consider starting with them, but it will allow you, Daniel, Danielle, to now have a better updated quarterly 3 month update on what you're investing into and a lot more understanding of what these companies are doing, how they're making their money, how they're growing, how they might not be growing. There's so much to learn on their investor relations websites. So I really encourage you, Danielle, to check out each company's investor relations website, look at their financials, read the reports, go through their presentations, their quarterly earnings presentations and everything in between. But man, how cool. What an awesome email and I hope one day you buy the ranch on Maui and have lots of horses. I'd love to come and ride a horse. That'd be so cool. I love horses.

[Robert]

Sounds amazing.

[Austin]

All right, our next question comes from Sasha V. Sasha says, I'd like to thank you both for the fantastic job you've been doing. Your podcast is one of the best I've ever listened to. My question is the following. What do you guys think about tax lien investing as part of a well diversified portfolio? I have recently come across such an investment instrument and I'd love to learn more specifically the pros and the cons. So, Robert, what do you think about this one?

[Robert]

I think it's a great question. I've done it for many, many years. Every state is different, so make sure you understand the local laws and the guidelines for it. But the one thing to understand when you're doing this is that it is risky. It sounds really cool. You're going to go buy someone's tax lien. So what that means is you're going to go to the courthouse, they have these sales and someone's behind on their property taxes and you're going to buy that lien on the property taxes and you're going to make money through the interest, interest on that tax lien. If it all goes well, you have the understanding then that you could take possession of the property if they default on the tax lien and don't pay the bill, which then you could take the property and flip it, sell it, make it a rental, whatever you wanted to do. But the downside of these tax lien sales, and I've seen it happen many, many times, it's never happened to me, you buy the tax lien, the person defaults on the tax lien with you, so they stop making payments and they file bankruptcy. Then your tax lien is tied up in bankruptcy court for one, two, three years trying to clear the title so you can actually do something with it and move forward with the property. So just understand, do your research and really note that there are pros and cons to doing this. And then also kind of a pro tip that's a little bit easier is look at your local land bank sales, those can be much easier. Foreclosure sales, sales can be a lot easier because you can get immediate possession and you can make money just a lot quicker without the downside of tax lien sales. So just be careful, make sure you understand it thoroughly. I would get someone local or a lawyer to help you that is well versed in this because it's not all rainbows and unicorns as I've laid out.

[Austin]

Interesting. So it sounds to me like the process is the following. The tax lien investor takes their money and they buy this tax lien. And then once they buy the tax lien, the owner of the property who didn't pay their property tax gets notified that someone else now, quote, unquote, owns their property. And they have so many months or days or whatever it is to buy the lien back from the investor at a 15, 20% interest rate and then also pay their taxes and stuff. So that's like one way to get money is you, like, get the interest that's generated on it. And then the other way is that now, because you've owned this tax lien, you now own the house, essentially, and you. You can like foreclose on it and then flip it or renovate it or whatever you want to do.

[Robert]

That is exactly the process. Your goal, if you're doing this type of investing is to make the money on the interest of the tax lien, assuming they make their payments. And if they don't make their payments and you foreclose, you're dislodging them from the house. But that is not your goal as the investor. So make sure you understand that. Because some people, they get too warm and fuzzy and not understand the entire process. Process. And then you could sell, flip, renovate, whatever you want to do with the property, because you would have entitlement to take the property over. So just make sure you understand the good, the bad, and the ugly with this type of investing, because it's not always as simple as people lay it out to be.

[Austin]

So I'm gonna go on a limb here and say I would not do this myself. I don't think this is a way I'd diversify my portfolio. Personally, I think I'd rather, you know, park it in a fun ride or, you know, park it into some REITs maybe, or some different asset classes. I don't think this is something I'd do myself. Is this something that you think that you're going to do in the future, Robert, or is this something you're doing already?

[Robert]

Yeah, I stick with foreclosures and land bank sales. So what A land bank sale. Is anyone listening can go to their local government, their local jurisdiction, ask them where to look for the land bank list. They're generally populated once a a month, and you can see what is coming up on the docket, and you can put in an offer to buy that property. So about four years ago, I did one that worked out really well. I got a three bedroom, one and a half bath home from the land bank. And it needed a lot of work. But I ended up buying it for 19,000. I put $40,000 into it. So let's call it. I was all in for 60, 65,000 plus closing costs. And then I flipped it probably three months later, later, and I sold it for $135,000. So I was able to double my money on that. And I've done quite a few of these over the years. And I just like the land bank and the foreclosure because once the process is done, I own it. I get the keys. I think doing the tax lien work is too much work and too much risk for the money. So I don't do it.

[Austin]

I love it. All right, Robert, this is the episode After Christmas. We hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and a happy holiday season with your family and loved ones. And what's cool too is New Year's is right around the corner. Rober. I think there's like this big, like, festival here that happens on Broadway with like Morgan Wallen and like Jelly Roll and all these people that hang out here for New Year's. I think it's like the music note drop is what they call it. So watch it on tv. You might see me on tv. I might be there. Might be jamming to some Laney Wilson, who knows.

[Robert]

That is hilarious. Well, yes, thank you all for joining. We're so excited for the new year and bringing you guys just a ton of value. Growing the rich habits now network and just continue doing what we're doing. This is year three. I think it's just so exciting for us and hopefully for all of you that you get an amazing amount of value from us each and every week.

[Austin]

So we'll see you on Monday, December 30, for our next episode. And then it will be officially 2025. So stay tuned and we'll see you then. Thanks, everyone and have a great rest of your week.