Bhutan Grades Itself On Happiness

Summary

Ridiculous History: Episode Summary - "Bhutan Grades Itself On Happiness"

Release Date: November 12, 2024

Welcome to another enlightening episode of Ridiculous History, where hosts Ben Boland and Noel Brown explore some of the most fascinating and unconventional stories from across human civilization. In this episode, "Bhutan Grades Itself On Happiness," the duo delves into the unique philosophy and practices of Bhutan, a small Himalayan kingdom renowned for prioritizing Gross National Happiness (GNH) over traditional economic indicators.

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1. Introduction to Bhutan and Its Enigmatic Appeal

Ben Boland opens the episode by introducing Bhutan as a landlocked country nestled in the eastern Himalayas, often referred to as the "Shangri La" by travelers. He remarks, “For most people, the answer is no. And sadly, statistically, if you asked most of most Americans, we're Americans. If you ask most of us to point to Bhutan on a map, couldn't do it” (02:09).

Noel Brown humorously adds, “They call me Bilbo Bagman. It’s true” (01:14), setting a lighthearted tone as the hosts describe Bhutan's elusive presence on global maps and its status as the only Vajrayana Buddhist nation.

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2. Historical Context: Bhutan’s Ancient Origins and the Spread of Buddhism

The conversation shifts to Bhutan's rich history, with Noel Brown providing insights into the introduction of Buddhism in the 7th century AD by Tibetan King Songsten Gampo (06:24). He elaborates on the Tibetan empire's expansion and Bhutan's consolidation under Buddhist theocracy by figures like Nawang Namgyal, who unified the warring clans and established impregnable fortresses known as "zongs" (07:11).

Ben Boland adds, “They didn’t say. He made some good points. No. This was the old story of historical conquest. Blood and treasure” (07:13), emphasizing the tumultuous methods of Bhutan's early unification.

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3. The Philosophy of Gross National Happiness (GNH)

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Bhutan's groundbreaking approach to national success measurement. Noel Brown sets the stage: “Bhutan is not a big country by any means. It has a population of about 800,000 in 2024. It decided at some point not to grade its success in terms of gross domestic product, in terms of economic output” (04:40).

Ben Boland expands on this, stating, “Instead, they hung out. And back in the 1970s, they said maybe we should define success for our country by how happy the people living in it are” (05:19). This philosophy challenges the conventional GDP-centric view prevalent in Western nations.

The hosts discuss how Bhutan's GNH encompasses various facets such as socioeconomic equity, environmental conservation, cultural preservation, and governmental integrity. Noel Brown aptly summarizes, “That's a checklist of cool stuff” (15:37).

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4. Bhutan’s Transition to Constitutional Monarchy and Democracy

The episode explores Bhutan's political evolution, highlighting the 2008 constitutional changes that shifted from absolute monarchy to a constitutional monarchy with democratic elements. Ben Boland recounts the struggle, noting, “The people of Bhutan, the Bhutanese weren’t super on board with this. They loved the king as a, this is a religious figure” (28:18).

Noel Brown reflects on the population's initial resistance to democracy, saying, “The people were not keen on embracing this” (27:50). They discuss the challenges faced during this transition, including concerns about replicating failed democracies seen in neighboring South Asian countries.

An insightful quote from Bhutan’s first democratically elected prime minister, Thinly, encapsulates the tension: “We'll break it up. Like you said, the people were not keen on bringing the kind of change that in their eyes and in their mind could not be very different from what they saw in the world at large” (31:02).

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5. Cultural Heritage: Architecture, Art, and Daily Life

The hosts delve into Bhutan's vibrant cultural landscape, highlighting architectural marvels like the Tiger's Nest monastery. Noel Brown describes it as “mounted like on the sides of these incredible steep cliffsides and it’s an absolute marvel of engineering” (24:39).

Ben Boland shares his admiration for Bhutanese monasteries, stating, “I'm a nihilistic optimist. Okay, cool” (34:30), and humorously invites travelers to visit Bhutanese monasteries, ensuring a no "hot air balloons" policy (24:49).

The conversation also touches on Bhutan's unique traffic management, where Noel Brown observes, “There's no traffic lights in Bhutan at all” (35:44), comparing it to the manual traffic control similar to North Korea's approach.

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6. Environmental Stewardship and Sustainable Practices

Bhutan's commitment to the environment is a recurring theme. Noel Brown proudly states, “At least 60 to 72, I think, 72% of its country remains forested” (22:49), highlighting Bhutan’s extensive forest cover and its status as a carbon-negative country.

Ben Boland explains, “Bhutan is better for the global environment” (38:12), attributing this to their rigorous conservation policies and minimal industrialization. The hosts admire Bhutan’s dedication to maintaining natural resources and preventing environmental degradation.

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7. Travel to Bhutan: Challenges and Attractions

The episode offers practical insights for potential travelers. Ben Boland warns, “It’s going to be a make your peace with God stuff” (42:00), referring to the challenging landing at Bhutan's Paro Airport, one of the most difficult airports to navigate globally.

Travelers are encouraged to embrace Bhutan's unique experiences, from hiking the treacherous paths to the Tiger's Nest to immersing themselves in Bhutanese archery, the national sport with deep cultural and religious significance.

Noel Brown highlights Bhutanese cuisine, describing it as “similar in some. It’s a transit point, Right. Because we’ve got Indian cuisine coming in. We’ve got a certain kind of rice with a specifically unique, nutty flavor” (44:58), noting its distinct flavors and the prevalence of red chilies and cheese in their dishes.

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8. Fun Facts and Trivia

To wrap up, the hosts share intriguing trivia about Bhutan:

• Nicknamed the "Land of the Thunder Dragon," Bhutan features the Druk, a mythical creature symbolizing strength and protection.
• Unique Traffic Control: Manual traffic direction replaces traffic lights in the capital.
• Endangered Wildlife: Bhutan is home to diverse endangered species, offering opportunities for cryptid enthusiasts.
• Penis Artwork: Commonly found flanking doorways and adorning rooftops, Bhutan embraces humorous and symbolic art forms (38:51).

Ben Boland humorously remarks, “You had me at penis artwork” (38:51), showcasing the hosts' playful dynamic.

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9. Conclusion: Bhutan’s Inspirational Model and Its Global Relevance

The episode concludes with Ben Boland and Noel Brown reflecting on Bhutan's success with GNH and its potential applicability on a global scale. Ben Boland muses, “Could this only work in a very small isolated place high in the Himalaya, the so-called Kingdom of Heaven? Or just maybe could something like gross domestic happiness also make life a little better for all of us schmucks down here off the mountain?” (34:14).

Noel Brown optimistically adds, “I'm choosing to be optimistic about this” (34:20), inspiring listeners to consider alternative measures of national success beyond GDP.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Noel Brown: “They call me Bilbo Bagman. It’s true” (01:14).
• Ben Boland: “For most people, the answer is no. And sadly, statistically, if you asked most of most Americans, we're Americans” (02:09).
• Ben Boland: “We need to figure out our country's vibe based on how much everybody wins” (15:37).
• Noel Brown: “We're not here to soapbox about any of this kind of stuff” (13:58).
• Noel Brown: “More money, more problems. I mean there's. That's absolutely true” (14:40).
• Ben Boland: “It is a theocracy, dude” (16:16).
• Ben Boland: “They’re home to a ton of endangered animals too” (37:26).
• Max Williams: “Penis artwork, I'm in” (39:06).
• Ben Boland: “Don't miss it” (27:18).
• Ben Boland: “Could this only work in a very small isolated place high in the Himalaya, the so-called Kingdom of Heaven?” (34:14).

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Final Thoughts

"Bhutan Grades Itself On Happiness" offers a compelling look into a nation that dares to redefine success by prioritizing the well-being and happiness of its citizens over economic metrics. Through engaging discussions and insightful anecdotes, Ben Boland and Noel Brown illuminate Bhutan's unique approach, inspiring listeners to re-evaluate traditional paradigms of national prosperity.

Whether you're intrigued by Bhutan's historical journey, its cultural richness, or its environmental triumphs, this episode provides a comprehensive and entertaining exploration of why Bhutan stands out as a beacon of happiness and sustainability in the modern world.

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For more fascinating episodes, tune into Ridiculous History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Ben Boland]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning, tuning in. We're so glad that you're here. If you're hearing this the day it comes out. Welcome to November 12, 2024. We're midway on the way to Thanksgiving and we have a travel episode for you. Before we do this, let us describe your three favorite companions for a crazy, crazy international trip. First off, our super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[Noel Brown]

Tell you who. Woohoo.

[Max Williams]

Are we going to climb some mountains, y'all?

[Noel Brown]

Sure.

[Ben Boland]

Second, our main man here, known as the Bagman. In some areas of the world, it's Mr. Noel Brown. Give it up.

[Noel Brown]

They call me Bilbo Bagman. It's true. And speaking of that, when you ask this question about traveling campaigns, I immediately my mind goes to who's my D and D party? What are each individual's superpower abilities that will serve us on this quest?

[Ben Boland]

We need the specialties. Yeah. Yeah. And it's your boy, Ben Boland. Our question today. This is something that's been on our minds pretty often for years now. Noel, Max and I have had conversations about a place called Bhutan.

[Noel Brown]

A magical place, a faraway land, landlocked, in fact, country on the eastern ridges of the glorious Himalayas that has been referred to by some as the Shangri La.

[Ben Boland]

Yes.

[Noel Brown]

I haven't. We have not yet mounted this sojourn yet though, have we been. Because it's kind of hard to get to. Yeah.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah. Have you ever visited Bhutan? For most people, the answer is no. And sadly, statistically, if you asked most of most Americans. We're Americans. If you ask most of us to point to Bhutan on a map. Couldn't do it.

[Max Williams]

I could do it if the name was on there.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's why we make maps that way. History of C.J.

[Noel Brown]

It'S itty bitty though, right? And it's nestled amongst a lot of much larger land masses. So it would, you know, looking at it, zoomed out, it's kind of a speck. You might not even be able to read the text, Max.

[Ben Boland]

You might just see a B and an H. We also know to your point, Noel, that Bhutan is, as you said, high up in the heavens of the Himalayas. It's nestled between Tibet, which is controlled by China, and nestled between India. Free Tibet, which. Yeah. Which are.

[Noel Brown]

It's 1995 all over again.

[Ben Boland]

And China and India are two of the biggest up and coming countries in the world.

[Noel Brown]

They're going places, don't you think?

[Ben Boland]

You know what? I think it's part of my different job if I say anything about it. But, yeah, no worries. Back in 20, we spoke about Bhutan briefly referring to. We had an episode on what weird courtship rituals. And we talked about the Bhutanese practice of night hunting.

[Noel Brown]

I don't remember night hunting. That sounds a little scary. This is a courtship practice. Sounds a little Hunger Gamesy. I don't know.

[Ben Boland]

This is a travel episode because. Noel. Max, we're journeying back to Patan because there is a different, oddly wholesome aspect of this country as well, which has been described as ridiculous by certain outsiders. But we're kind of into it. It's the only Vajrana Buddhist nation in the world, and for a lot of people, it's a dream destination, but it's pretty tough to get there. Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, it is. But that dream that is kept alive in Bhutan is in no small part due to how they measure the success of much, much, much differently than we do here. For certain, in the United States, rather than monetary measures, they're looking a little more inward.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, yeah. Bhutan does not grade its success as a country. And to your point earlier, Noel, Bhutan is not a big country by any means. It has a population of about 800,000 in 2024. It decided at some point not to grade its success in terms of gross domestic product, in terms of economic output. Instead, they hung out. And back in the 1970s, they said maybe we should define success for our country by how happy the people living in it are.

[Noel Brown]

Well, that sounds nice. Let's get into this and how this works after a quick cold open break. Hey, it's Austin James. If you're like me, trying to live your best life while living with diabetes, you can relate to worrying if you're doing a good job managing your diabetes. I use the Freestyle Libre 3 Plus sensor to get real time glucose readings and see the impact of every meal and activity to make better decisions. The freestyle Libre 3 Plus sensor can help me live life with diabetes on my own terms. And it gives me more time for the things I love, like being a dad and a musician. Now this is progress. Learn more at FreestyleLibre US for prescription only safety info found at Freestyle Libre US.

[Ben Boland]

And we've returned. All right. The land we call Bhutan today was inhabited by humans as early as 2000 BCE. But as we were talking about off air, we still don't know a lot about its ancient origins. So, Noel, maybe you and I can give people just the high level. That's funny, because it's a very. It's a high elevation country.

[Noel Brown]

Oh man. There's apparently this movie that's dropped recently called Elevation. That's a total rip off of a quiet place, but the kind of the inverse where it's these monsters that cannot exist at high elevation. So Bhutan would be spared from the apocalypse brought on by the creatures in this apparently quite hacky creature feature that's. That's out in theaters soon. But yeah, it's true, Ben. Buddhism was first introduced to the people of bhutan in the 7th century AD when Tibetan King Songsten Gampo reigned for from 627 to 649, converted to Buddhism and extended the Tibetan empire into the area, the empire he already controlled. So I mean Ben is. This is. It's easy to, in a footnote of history say extended the Tibetan empire, but that would be by way of conquest, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Boland]

It wasn't a cool zoom meeting.

[Noel Brown]

Right. He didn't just pop over and say, yeah, come join us.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah. They didn't say. He made some good points. No. This was the old story of historical conquest. Blood and treasure. We know by the 10th century, Bhutan's adoption of Buddhism had a significant impact on its political development. It's always been a theocracy from that point. And locally, what's curious, going to our point about how we don't know much about the providence of Bhutan. Locally, it's been known by many names. The first Europeans to get over there were Portuguese and they were Jesuits. Classic.

[Noel Brown]

Oh. And if you really want to see a cool depiction of some of these types of individuals who, you know, were off on the front lines of exploration and conquest, check out Shogun, the FX series. There's a whole plot involving like Portuguese Jesuits.

[Ben Boland]

Yes, yeah. And the Portuguese Jesuits that reached Bhutan, this occurs in 1627. They were Estevao Casella and Jo Cabral and they talked to other people in surrounding areas. And whenever they asked about what we call Bhutan today, people would say, oh, that's the Kambarasasi or the Put Potente or the Mauve. It really depended on who you asked as far as what name that you got.

[Noel Brown]

Well, and that makes sense because until the early 17th century they really existed as this kind of loose connection of fiefdoms that were under the control of different kind of, I don't know, warlords or whatever you might want to call them. But they did not get along with each other. So there really wasn't much unity to speak of. That unity did eventually come when the Tibetan lama and military leader Nawang Yam Gyal, who had actually fled from religious persecution in Tibet, showed up and basically unified these warring clans, I guess you could call them. Yeah.

[Ben Boland]

And he built this network of impregnable fortresses. They're called zongs D Z O n g s. The most famous kind of example of this architecture is the tiger's nest. So look that up with your favorite recreational vice of choice and prepare to learn really cool stuff. This guy. This guy helmed the building of these fortresses and then also set forth a code of law that, to your point, Noel, unified these other fiefdoms altogether. And here's a crazy conspiracy for you folks. When Ngawang namgo died in 1651, the unified government was so important and so fragile that his successors decided to just not tell anyone the leader died for 54 years.

[Noel Brown]

You know, if they'd had camera phones and the Internet back then, they wouldn't have been able to keep a lid on this, even though they probably wouldn't get good reception up there in them hills. But yeah, if you think about the ability to keep a secret like that by today's standards, and it's just kind of mind boggling that they were able to do that.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah. Like, did they just tell him? He'll get back to you, you know.

[Noel Brown]

Anyway, you can't turn on the computer without finding a spoiler for your favorite TV show, let alone that the leader of a free nation died.

[Ben Boland]

Right? Yeah. And we still don't know a ton of early history of Bhutan because most of the records were sadly destroyed in a fire that ravaged the ancient capital. 1827.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. Then in 1907, which is kind of a big year, a red letter year for the country, when Wang Chuk was chosen unanimously as the hereditary king of the country by the Leng Shog of leading Buddhist monks. I imagine the Lenye Shog is a particular title, like a high level official within this order of Buddhist monks. Right. Which was also in control of the government. Right.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah. There's no discernible separation of church and state in this, which would make it arguably a theocracy. The person you're mentioning, Wang Chuck, got the co sign of the leader of the Buddhist monks, a very powerful force, the local government officials, the heads of every rich family. This is the basis of modern Bhutan today. And there have been some interesting and sometimes inspiring plot twists along the way. Especially that time they said, hey, why is the rest of the world so stressed about this money thing? Does money really make you happy? This is where we enter the wholesome, ridiculous history part of the episode. No Gross national happiness.

[Noel Brown]

I mean, it's. When going over this material and digging a little further into it on my own, you start to look at this and almost it seems like it would be immediately mocked by certain capitalist forces or just by folks that are running the government, like here in the United States. Like the idea that anything other than constant year over year monetary growth is the way to measure success would be found to be absurd by these types of folks and worthy of mockery. Like I could picture certain individuals, you know, pundits or whatever, just absolutely dragging something like this or a country like this and say, how could you even possibly think like this right here in.

[Ben Boland]

The west, in the United States in particular, and in a lot of other industrialized nations, the idea of happiness is equated with money. There's a New York Times article that explores this in a fascinating way wherein the journalist notes economists measure consumer confidence on the assumption that the resulting figure says something about progress and public welfare. The Gross Domestic Product, or GDP is routinely used as shorthand for the well being of a nation. But no, we've talked about this off air. I've talked about this with Max. An economy can be doing gangbusters and the people in the place where the economy is doing well can be having horrible lives.

[Noel Brown]

It's just a misnomer. I mean, I'm sorry, we're not here to soapbox about any of this kind of stuff. And you know, to quote Biggie, more money, more problems. I mean there's. That's absolutely true. And the older you get and the more you start to maybe come into a career or whatever, the expectations just to continue to rise. And given our position kind of in this system that we're talking about here in the us you start to kind of judge yourself against that GDP and judge yourself against these expectations of wealth. And if you're not careful, you spend your entire life chasing that, you know, and the more money you have, the more you want to have more, the more you want to be like the next guy. And that isn't happiness. I'm sorry, that's just not what happiness is. In fact, it's misery.

[Ben Boland]

Gotta watch. Apocalyptic. They have a thing about this. Anyway, so, yes, I think we're raising good points. The Kingdom of Bhutan is not trying to be a huge expansionist empire. Instead, Gross National Happiness, which is sometimes called Gross Domestic Happiness, it's a philosophy that currently guides the government. What it means essentially is this. The country has decided to eschew or throw away the traditional economic metrics. And they said, you know what? We're going to figure out our country's vibe based on how much everybody wins, how we develop a socioeconomic, equitable situation, how do we conserve the environment, how do we preserve and promote our culture, how do we make sure our government is not corrupt? That's a checklist of cool stuff.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. A win for one is a win for all. And I know what a lot of folks might be thinking, like, is this vaguely communist or vaguely socialist? And it's. It's not exactly its own thing. Right. Like, it really. Yeah, it's super interesting. So, I mean, to the government of Bhutan, it's simple. In 2009, the leader, his Eminence the Rinpoche, which is a big deal. This is this like, spiritual kind of the idea of a reincarnated spiritual leader.

[Ben Boland]

Like the king of the monks. Right.

[Noel Brown]

His Eminence Kedrup Chen Rinpoche, the fifth reincarnate and head of the Sanchen Ogyen Tsuk Lak Monastery. Again, very much a theocracy, dude.

[Ben Boland]

And you were doing a great job with these pronunciations.

[Noel Brown]

I'm doing my best. That's in Trung Sa Bhutan. He actually became the youngest ever Rinpoche, or spiritual leader, spiritual master in the history of bhutan at only 19 years old. So that was a big deal in and of itself. And it would seem that he put his money where his mouth is or vice ver mouth where his money would go, and we're going to get rid of money. I don't know. It's a bad metaphor. But he really wanted to practice what he preached on a large scale in terms of, like, how can we separate ourselves from some of the more you know, secular trappings and things that are ultimately can be negative for people's mental wellbeing and focus a little bit more on kind of a holistic approach to mental and spiritual health, I guess.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, yeah, 100% nailed it. He was a. Or is a liaison to the larger world outside of Bhutan. And to these guys, this is a very simple thing. It's just, quote, a set of collective conditions that is generally needed to live a good life. And look, everybody outside of Bhutan, we live in a world that is just chock full of complicated governmental economic policies. To put things so simply. Sounds refreshing. But how did they get there? How does this idea of quantifying happiness works? To answer that, to, like, answer even where it comes from, we have to go back to 1972, which technically means this is within our purview, Right? Oh, yeah, it's.

[Noel Brown]

Well, the story and the origin of Bhutan is well within our purview. Okay. Yeah. As a nation. But you're right, it's crazy how modern this concept is. So let's travel back to 1972 together. Bhutan's newly crowned leader, King Yigme. See, I'm getting all the pronunciations today. King Jigme, Singye Wangchuck was very much pondering this conundrum, you know, of how when you focus on economic growth exclusively as a measure of the success of your nation, you're kind of ignoring your citizen's actual wellbeing and your citizen's actual happiness. Because he kind of clocked what we've both been screaming this whole time that I just think that GDP to happiness quotient is absolutely out of whack.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, sorry. Economist and His Excellency studied abroad. He went to different parts of the world and he felt like he was seeing the same thing over and over again. People would say, oh, the GDP is great. Oh, the economy is increasing. But when he walked the streets, right, when he, when he saw the people on the ground, he saw countless cases of environmental degradation. He saw startling inequality. And yes, if you're wondering, he did have part of his education in India. And he saw war and he saw crime proliferating. And he said, you know what? We need Bhutan? We need to ensure that any prosperity our country encounters is shared across society. That's the only sustainable way to do it. We need to preserve the cultural traditions, the things that make us Bhutanese. We got to protect our environment. And if people say to the government that there is a problem, we need a government to respond without corruption. And from 1972, he's still in school when he cooks up this idea. He's the guy who coins the term Gross national happiness from 1972 all the way to another plot twist. He spends the next decades trying to just do that.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, and it kind of catches on beyond his country. You know, it's. There's a really great New York Times piece that came out in 2005 by Andrew C. Revkin. And Revkin had this to say about around the world, a growing number of economists, social scientists, corporate leaders and bureaucrats are trying to develop a measurement that takes into account not just the flow of money, but also access to health care, free time with family, conservation of natural resources, and other non economic factors. Ben, does this sound familiar?

[Ben Boland]

Ooh. Think our buddy may have been ahead of his time, huh? So what we're Showing you here is even economists that are largely disconnected from the inner world of Bhutan or the wider spiritual world of Buddhism. They heard this philosophy and they said, yeah, maybe there's something missing. So much so that in 2005, 400 people from a dozen plus countries got together in Nova Scotia for a conference where they said, let's try to reimagine the dismal science of economics. And also, that is the street name for the study of economies. It's called the dismal science.

[Noel Brown]

Are you serious?

[Ben Boland]

I am so serious.

[Noel Brown]

That's incredible.

[Ben Boland]

That's why I didn't pursue.

[Noel Brown]

I had no idea. Is that. Yeah.

[Ben Boland]

Wow.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, that so much makes sense now. But this included in that 403 dozen representatives from Ding ding Ding Bhutan, including monks, government officials, teachers and others involved in this kind of, you know, philosophy of measuring a country's success by the happiness of its citizens. Imagine that. The idea of building a content fulfilled and happy and equitable society.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah. Oh, and don't get it twisted. We have to put this part in the people of Bhutan are, by and large not rich at all. While household incomes in Bhutan are still amid the world's lowest, especially if you look at gdp, we know that the policies enacted under the idea of prioritizing happiness have resulted in higher quality of life and higher life expectancy. From 1984 to 1998, just a little more than a decade, life expectancy increased by 19 years.

[Noel Brown]

And you might be thinking, well, as history progresses, life expectancy does tend to go up. But this, I think we could all argue is even outside of the norm of, you know, maybe what would just happen organically by the availability of medicine and medical technology and things like that.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, it's stunning. It is astonishing. And the country is still extremely strict about development. At least 60 to 72, I think 72% of its country remains forested. It does welcome a limited supply of wealthy tourists. We'll talk about it at the end because I'm going to try to pitch you and Max on going with me. And it makes money by exporting hydropower to India because it's up in the mountains. It's got that glacial connect.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. But, you know, I think the focus here, or the takeaway is that incredible prioritization of their natural resources and their history and the, you know, beauty of their country. Ben, you mentioned, I think it was called the tiger's nest at the top, which is one of those fortified situations, you know, that one of the early rulers of the country, you know, focused on. They're Literally these gorgeous kind of, I don't know, I'm saying pagoda esque type structures cause that's just what I liken them to. But they're mounted like on the sides of these incredible steep cliffsides and it's an absolute marvel of engineering in and of itself. And that's the kind of stuff that they're not going to let people mess with, you know. And you can hike that trail, you know, up the mountain. It's called the Tiger's Nest. And it's like a very difficult pass to hike. But you see all this beautiful stuff that is an example of the way they preserve their history and their natural, you know, features.

[Ben Boland]

And despite what longtime listeners may know about me as an entity, I love monasteries. Have you gone to the monastery in Conyers?

[Noel Brown]

We've talked about it, but I've got to. We gotta, we gotta do it, man. I really want to.

[Ben Boland]

Max, do you want to go with us to a monastery? I promise there will be no hot air balloons.

[Noel Brown]

We'll even provide a mantra for you.

[Max Williams]

Oh yeah, I'm totally down to go to monastery. Actually, a few months back when I was in New York, I was sitting knoll text photos I was in. My friends really wanted to go to the LEGO store, which I was like, okay. And I was like, I don't want a LEGO store. And right across the street was a giant cathedral. The giant cathedral, which was the most capitalistic place I went in all of New York.

[Ben Boland]

Right.

[Max Williams]

Oddly enough.

[Noel Brown]

What, the LEGO store or the cathedral?

[Max Williams]

The cathedral. Cathedral was so much more capitalistic than every. It was like, yeah, one candle. Everything was donated. Everything was donated.

[Noel Brown]

Obviously that money goes directly to God though.

[Ben Boland]

And I forgive you for not texting me as well. That is the spirit of Buddhism. But the Catholic monastery, Our lady of the Holy Spirit out in Conyers is great. Go visit if you have a chance. They're not going to try to proselytize with you. They've got also an awesome bonsai museum. The Tiger's Nest in the local language is pero thak sang. So this becomes the official goal. Gross national happiness becomes the official goal of the government of Bhutan and they enshrine it in the constitution, which is enacted on July 18, 2008.

[Noel Brown]

See Gladiator 2 only in theaters November 22.

[Ben Boland]

This film delivers thrilling action, a compelling story, emotionally charged performances and spectacle on a scale unlike anything else.

[Noel Brown]

Only Ridley Scott could pull off a cinematic marvel at this scale. With sweeping storytelling, telling and relentless action, Gladiator 2 stands out in the modern cinematic landscape. With its immersive visuals, incredible score and a gripping character driven narrative. The film stars an extraordinary cast including Paul Mezcal, Pedro Pascal, Denzel Washington and Connie Nielsen reprising her role as Lucilla. The fate of Rome rests on an uneasy alliance between Lucius and Macrinus who need each other to further their ambitions.

[Ben Boland]

Gladiator 2 is a complex political chess game, action packed revenge story with a beating emotional core.

[Noel Brown]

You'll be on the edge of your seat as you experience the unexpected twists and turns throughout the film.

[Ben Boland]

Get ready for an epic, immersive, visceral experience made for the big screen.

[Noel Brown]

See Gladiator 2 only in theaters on November 22nd.

[Ben Boland]

Don't miss it. So from 1972 to 2008, the king who had this epiphany has been working ardently toward this goal. And look for the more cynical amid us. This may sound like a performative political thing, but this is where we get to another, I think, very wholesome piece of ridiculous history.

[Noel Brown]

It's neat, it's kind of weird.

[Ben Boland]

So the leaders of Bhutan and the king, this is still pretty much an absolute monarchy until 2008. They evaluate happiness through multiple lenses and they get to the idea of what government makes people or gives them the best chance for happiness. And they say, let's try democracy and nola. I think this stood out to both of us. The people did not love the idea.

[Noel Brown]

No. And that's why it's a really complicated thing. Immediately you're like, okay, that's unusual. But it is sort of. There's multiple ways to look at it where it's like, on the one hand you could argue that maybe they were just so used to existing under that form of government that they were kind of spooked. But then you can also look at it as like it was just working for them and they believed in the benevolence of their leader because like dictatorships are only, I think, truly bad when the leader is corrupt, you know, and there's no real focus on the people. But it would seem that they're king really did care about the people and made choices that directly benefited the people.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, yeah, the people of Bhutan, the Bhutanese weren't super on board with this. They loved the king as a, this is a religious figure. The king is the one who came to the folks and said, all right, we're going to try out democracy in some form, technically constitutional monarchy. And this tested his otherwise absolute rule. If you look at news reports of the time, you'll see that people In Bhutan, like you said, though, were apprehensive. They were reluctant to embrace this. And I love that you're pointing out context here, because if we go to an interview with the country's first democratically elected prime minister, who's got a really interesting name, it feels part Bhutanese and for some reason part Victorian England.

[Noel Brown]

A little bit, yeah.

[Ben Boland]

Take me. Why Thinly?

[Noel Brown]

Why Thinly? I don't know. That's very unusual.

[Ben Boland]

We've got a response from him in a long form interview he had with the Council on Foreign Relations where he was put in a weird situation where as one of the first democratically elected officials, he had to explain why the country was maybe not super on board with democracy in the beginning.

[Noel Brown]

That's keen. It's also like, I mean, not to be too. I already kind of get it. I mean, look at how democracy works in other parts of the country and also in that region. So many failed democracies. I could totally get on board with thinking that maybe it was not the best experiment to try. Right. And you know, and he put it this way, we'll break it up. Like you said, the people were not keen on bringing the kind of change that in their eyes and in their mind could not be very different from what they saw in the world at large. And in particular in our neighborhood, neighboring countries in South Asia.

[Ben Boland]

In many of the countries, thinley continues, democracy had failed or was in the process of failing and leading to tremendous upheavals, strife among the people.

[Noel Brown]

In some cases they have seen so much violence that people felt that under the benevolent rule of a king who was so very popular, who was revered, loved and adored by the people, they.

[Ben Boland]

Had the best and they were not about to give up the best that they had. For some, they that, as I said, could perhaps not be different from what they saw elsewhere.

[Noel Brown]

100%. And he goes on. So they were anxious, but the king prevailed over them, saying that even though the final choice must be theirs, they must realize that the king becomes the leader only by the accident of birth.

[Ben Boland]

Boom, boom, boom, boom.

[Noel Brown]

The accident of birth, Ben. And not by merit or virtue. He's literally pointing out, like to the people under a monarchy, the problems with a monarchy of which he himself is the beneficiary of. Right? The leader goes on. And that to place the future of a country in the hands of such a person is not in the long term interest of the country.

[Ben Boland]

Max, can you give me some raucous applause? I love that quote.

[Noel Brown]

Now, guys, if you want to pick me as your Leader. I mean, I'm not saying this from an opportunistic standpoint. I'm more than willing to serve, just not as your king, you know, that's what he said.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah. And I.

[Noel Brown]

So cool.

[Ben Boland]

And as a guy who, as you know, based on my past centuries, I am very anti monarchy, I just want to take a moment and appreciate how wholesomely ridiculous this is. The people are saying they don't want democracy. The king who could make them do that instead does wave open hand and it's like, hey, just to be honest, I was just born in this position. You know what I mean? Technically, anybody could have been king.

[Noel Brown]

He is a benevolent dictator in a way.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah. He's like, we've got to all be part of this experiment for it to work in the long term. It's a topsy turvy situation because historically most kings commit great acts of violence upon their subjects just to maintain their power. And this guy is saying, hey, we're all cool, let's try, let's try to make this a long term thing. I mean, Bhutan is certainly not a perfect place by any means. There are great concerns about the treatment of the Nepalese population, but the courage that exhibits in a questioning a fundamental assumption in the modern world that money means happiness. We know science proves money does not equate to happiness after a certain threshold of income, but. But it gave the rest of the world something to think about. And all the conversation is continuing today at the World Economic Forum, at the cfr, at all the big movers and shakers internationally. It's happening at the United nations. And we have to wonder, could this only work in a very small isolated place high in the Himalaya, the so called Kingdom of Heaven? Or just maybe could something like gross domestic happiness also make life a little better for all of us schmucks down here off the mountain?

[Noel Brown]

You know, Ben, we just had a big election here in this country and I'm really hoping that they go the gross domestic happiness route.

[Ben Boland]

Wouldn't that be cool?

[Noel Brown]

I'm choosing to be optimistic about this.

[Ben Boland]

All right, we got a Venn diagram. I'm a nihilistic optimist. Okay, cool.

[Noel Brown]

We meet in the middle somewhere.

[Ben Boland]

There we go. So this is a story that we found uplifting. There's much more to the story. We'd like to end it with just some quick tangents and trivia about a country we'll hopefully get to travel to one day.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. In addition to the, what is it, the last Shangri La it also has a really cool nickname, the land of the Thunder Dragon.

[Ben Boland]

Boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

You see Exactly. As menacing as it seems, it's not a Kaiju sized, you know, Godzilla esque creature.

[Ben Boland]

And it's. It's like going to a town where they have a mascot. That's everywhere. The Thunder Dragon is in architecture, it's depicted in art. You see it on the nation's flag.

[Noel Brown]

The Druk is what it's known as colloquially. That was official name, I believe it's actually part of their mythology. It is not an actual living creature at all.

[Ben Boland]

No, it's more an idea.

[Noel Brown]

I mean, you know, it's based on science. Maybe they exist within the lore and the context of their belief system.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, they're home to a ton of endangered animals too. So this would be a cool place to try to catch a cryptid if you're on board. There are no traffic lights in Bhutan at all. If you go to the current capital, then you'll see there is a. There's like a decorated stand where traffic police manually direct traffic. Similar to North Korea.

[Noel Brown]

Like the lollipop men, you know, in the uk. Yeah. I was about to say, is it just like the honor system, Ben? Like as far as who goes when and is this a product of maybe they don't have the kind of modern, you know, traffic buildup that we see in other parts of the world, it seems. Yeah, way dangerous.

[Ben Boland]

Way fewer cars.

[Noel Brown]

That would make sense.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah. Also, the national sport following up on our earlier sports phase is archery. It's not the kind of archery you're thinking about. It's a big deal if you have the privilege to visit Bhutan. Pretty much any family you meet is going to have a bow and arrow set and they will probably drop everything. If you want to go learn archery.

[Noel Brown]

How is it different than maybe the, you know, Olympic kind of versions of archery that we might be aware of? I know archery is also real big in like Korea.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, yeah, it's in Bhutan. It has a religious significance and social significance. Also the targets are placed differently than they would be in the Olympics. I still can't believe the Cryptid point. I wasn't even thinking about this, man, until we just started talking about it. With over 70% of the land covered by forest forested. Yeah, way up.

[Noel Brown]

Same with India. We just did an episode recently and stuff that I want you to know about Cryptids of India. And a big reason for that possibility is how much impassable, you know, forest there is and how much opportunity there might be for something to exist kind of under the radar. And it's very similar here in Bhutan.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, it's also, we've heard of carbon neutral countries. Bhutan is a carbon negative country. They make, you know, they make the average amount of CO2 that you would expect, but their forest ground captures all of it. So it's actually eating carbon from other parts of the environment. Bhutan is better for. Better for the global environment.

[Noel Brown]

That's because they don't mow down the forests. That's a whole part of their philosophy and their governing principles. To not do that kind of thing and not prioritize industry over, you know, the kinds of things that will hopefully help prevent a global catastrophe.

[Ben Boland]

They listen to the Lorax, right?

[Noel Brown]

Always listen to the Lorax.

[Ben Boland]

There is one thing I wanted to surprise you guys with which might not be familiar to everyone. Just if you get a chance to travel to Bhutan, first off, send us photos. We love that. Secondly, you're going to see a lot of penis artwork. Ah, little practice there.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, I'm down with that. Yeah.

[Ben Boland]

Flanking doorways, hanging off rooftops, painted on homes in window displays.

[Max Williams]

You had me at penis artwork.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, he didn't. You needn't say no more, Ben.

[Max Williams]

I was on the fence, like all the climbing and stuff, but then. Penis artwork, I'm in.

[Noel Brown]

You had me a penis, Ben. I mean, you had me a penis.

[Max Williams]

You had me a pen.

[Ben Boland]

I'm in. Say no more, say less.

[Noel Brown]

It's also highly regulated or illegal to smoke, right? Isn't that a thing? Yes.

[Ben Boland]

It was the first nation in the world to ban tobacco for a while until the pandemic kicked in and a lot of smuggling happened over the border. So now it's tightly controlled.

[Noel Brown]

And while I think that's interesting, I think all of us here at Ridiculous History aren't the biggest proponents of outright prohibition because we know that it just leads to smuggling. It just leads to black market stuff, which leads to crime. And I just think. So this to me is a little short sighted, you know, I guess maybe coming from a good place, but it's, it's tough, you know, no one could stop their vices just because the government.

[Ben Boland]

Tells them Max has a cigar. That would probably take my cigar away.

[Max Williams]

I will be very.

[Noel Brown]

You could pry Max's cigar from his cold, dead hand.

[Max Williams]

Like one to two cigars a year. If anyone wondering.

[Ben Boland]

All right, you're on record. It's fine.

[Noel Brown]

But I have.

[Max Williams]

But I just have three in a drawer.

[Ben Boland]

This is where we learn to that point. Bhutan is definitely a work in Progress. It's been a dream country of mine to visit for many years. It hasn't worked out yet. Visiting Bhutan is quite expensive. Just getting over there is expensive. And if you are American, you have to pay. It used to be 200 a day. It used to be higher. Now it's about $100 a night every 24 hours. Just to be there. Just to be there as an American. Not counting hotel. But is it also affordable though?

[Noel Brown]

Like is are the hotel fees. I know a lot of times in Asian countries it's expensive to get there. But then the, you know, the actual costs of staying for a while are not too bad.

[Ben Boland]

I hope we find out together.

[Noel Brown]

I would like to. Sounds like a real great idea.

[Ben Boland]

The visa is only 40 bucks a pop. That's great. That's actually not too crazy. But we will have to. I know not all of us are fans of flying or heights. We will have to be ready to fly into one of the world's most difficult airports.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, difficult how? Like narrow, like perhaps some mountain. I mean we know it's mountainous. You probably have to come in for a landing between some crazy peaks.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, I got a link here from CNN from our pal Lilit Marcus where you can see what it looks like. There's one landing, airway or Runway. There's one takeoff. They're both very short. You called it, man. There are. This is between two 18,000 foot peaks. When you're landing at the very last minute, just to make it in, you have to take this crazy, this crazy turn, dog leg turn.

[Noel Brown]

I'm seeing like we got a GIF on the CNN travel site that shows you from the cockpit perspective and it is serious maneuvering.

[Ben Boland]

It's a make your peace with God stuff.

[Max Williams]

Let's jump in here real quick. I just want to say like, you know, as it's been state on the show, I'm not the biggest fan of flying. I've gotten better about it. I'm also not a fan of heights. But like this is terrifying. But it's also like super cool that.

[Ben Boland]

I would do it.

[Max Williams]

And Philip J. Fry. This is a cool way to die. That's how I think the entire time.

[Ben Boland]

That's what I. That's what I would say with whomever we're sitting next to in the plane. I'm like, hey, good news though. Right before we hit the turn and have to grab our beat me or have to grab our oh handles. I'd be like, hey, this is a pretty cool way to die. Right?

[Noel Brown]

There's a really fun Quote, that's the floor. That's the floor. There's a really fun quote at the very beginning of this article on CNN Travel. It said, there's a Buddha in the cockpit. The orange robed icon looks on as the pilot speedily executes a dramatic last minute turn to land the A319 on the slender Runway. A dozen passengers, some of whom have spent the last few minutes white knuckling the seat armrests, break out into applause.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, and it's fine to clap on that plane because you're also getting flown by a celebrity in aviation. Even now in 2024, there are only about 50 pilots on the entire planet who are qualified to land or take off from this place. So I would posit if you land safely, you have already won spiritual approval from the Kingdom of the Thunder Dragon.

[Noel Brown]

I love it. Oh, man, what a fun episode, Ben. Thanks for putting this one together. This is so interesting. I didn't know any of this stuff. And maybe the slightly uncertain political moment that we're in here in the United States, whatever your political persuasions are, this is not a political show. Stuff like this is comforting, man. I have to say.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah. Just to check in. And I am so impressed by His Excellency, you know, the sheer balls to say, I want what's best for us. And it's so few monarchs ever admit the lottery of birth. Right. So figuring out if your friends are happy, if your people are happy, that is such a cool thing to do. And you know what else is a very cool thing? Tuning into this show? Ridiculous historians. Thank you so much, y'all.

[Noel Brown]

So cool. Yeah. And huge thanks again, Ben, for putting this brief together. This is a super fun topic, and I feel a little bit better after talking about it with you.

[Ben Boland]

Oh, man. Bhutanese cuisine. We didn't have time to get to it, but buddy. All right, we'll keep where I said buddy. All right, it's going to be.

[Noel Brown]

What are we talking here? Does it have any connections to maybe cuisine I'd be aware of or, like, any similarities?

[Ben Boland]

Oh, geez. You're going to love it. You're going to love it. And our pal Matt Frederick will love it, too.

[Noel Brown]

Do they do curries? What are we talking here?

[Ben Boland]

I'm going to.

[Noel Brown]

Come on, Ben, spit it.

[Ben Boland]

Come on. We've got. All right, so Bhutanese cuisine is similar in some. It's a transit point, Right. Because we've got Indian cuisine coming in. We've got a certain kind of rice with a specifically unique, nutty flavor. And it's the only rice that can grow at that elevation in the world. They love red chilies. Like, love, love.

[Noel Brown]

And it looks like they actually do, you know, a little bit different from what Indian cuisine folks might be familiar with. They do noodle dishes as well.

[Ben Boland]

Yeah, they love a noodle dish. There's also a lot of cheese, which got me back into the game.

[Noel Brown]

And that is not something you typically associate with the Asian cuisine. I mean, you do have the delicious paneer in Indian cuisine, which I have become a big fan of in recent years. But yeah, okay, I'm sold. Do we have. Are there any Bhutanese restaurants out on Beaufort highway here in Atlanta?

[Ben Boland]

We're going to have to get together and figure that one out on the right.

[Noel Brown]

I think you're right, Ben. I think you're right.

[Ben Boland]

I think you're right, too, Noel. And of course, big, big thanks to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Big, big thanks to his bio bro, Alex Williams, our resident composer.

[Noel Brown]

Indeed, huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland, the Quidster, AJ Bahamas Jacobs, the Puzzler.

[Ben Boland]

Big, big thanks to Rachel Big Spinach Lance. Big, big thanks to Eve's Jeffcoats and our pal Christopher Hosiotes here in spirit. And big, big thanks, Noel, to you and Max for agreeing with me to try to get to baton. We should write to accounting now. Just get in front of it.

[Noel Brown]

I'll be fine with it. We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is Dr. Joy Harnon Bradford from Therapy for Black Girls. Reading books gives you feelings. I mean, that's what they do. And with millions of books on Amazon, there's a reading feeling for everyone. Like, there's an awestruck whoa feeling you get when you read about a dragon flying across the sky. But that's different from the surprised whoa you get when you read that the best friend did it. And that's totally different than the hubba hubba, whoa, when the stable boy becomes a stable man and Amazon's got all the woes. Amazon books. That reading feeling awaits.